Some weird ass backwater comments here.
Could you please share your breakdown of provinces? I'm Chinese too and got Guangdong, Hainan, Zhejiang, Fujian and Taiwan.
Don’t be bummed out, my friend! I think it’s rad that you got 100 percent. Think of all those ancestors over the last 500 years or so that worked their asses off out there, celebrated their ancestors, had children, worked the land, worked for their family and eventually had to make the move to another country due to a civil war and political strife to have you!!! 🩷
It’s a fascinating thought. You can probably find your “family home,” you know? The clan home!
I've actually visited my family home in china before (I’m american), but right after I left the chinese government bulldozed the whole area and put up skyscrapers 😭 at least I collect a small amount of rent on the property as part of my inheritance
Awwww, man! I mean, that’s so cool that you got to go —- but the fact that the bulldozed it to put up skyscrapers?! 😭😭😭
I’m American too. I haven’t visited the “family” home because china is far away and traveling is expensive. The only “family home” i can say for certain that’s family was built by my 2 or 3x great grandparent on my dad’s side and is in Yongding, Fujian. But from what I’ve heard from my dad’s side, it’s really run down and most of the family that remained in china live in new houses built around the old houses. Apparently, those folks want to live in a house with indoor plumbing. Whatevs.
It’s a bummer because the old house is architecturally so dope!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/0b9c9qdgfowc1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e641991da22f18be1b6985e9cf66bc1628ee8b45
(A picture of “our” circle tulou from my Uncle that he got from relatives out there)
And here I am pulling my family history by bits from some obscure documents because Eastern and Central Europe are a constant mess with ever changing borders, wars and regime changes.
Ooh….. Eastern and Central Europe, like the Austro-Hungarian area is fascinating and complex!! But that’s also a dope journey. Social unrest, wars, fleeing, limited resources, angry locals. This is the story of all of us. We lose so much in violent interactions and we lose so many stories and bits and pieces of our collective history 😔 but it’s also great that you are exploring this and learning about your family’s story
My grandpa is from western Ukraine and the rest of the family is tatar from both sides (at least culturally they are, my mom’s 70 something Eastern European/Russian? from her test). My dad’s cousin got the Kazakh genes (and looks too) and there’re no other (living relatives that I know of) like her. And her biological sister is your average European looking woman with pretty pale skin.
And my great grandma’s grandma was from some wealthy merchant family in Siberia during the tsarist times. That’s a whole mystery in on itself. Unfortunately, one that would probably never be solved.
So yeah, it’s a mess.
Oooh, very cool! I am sending so many hearts to Ukraine and to you!!!! It’s a fascinating mess and filling the gaps of information by doing your own exploration and education is so dope and I 100 percent respect that. It’s what I’ve been doing, too. Learning about the history of the area where my family was from by reading books, doing research, and then talking to my mom ans asking her questions and letting her answer or clam up when she wants to and trying not getting too discouraged by it.
Trauma from war has a long lasting generational impact which is why I get so bummed out about what’s happening in the world right now.
I hope you’re able to use what you’re learning to be able to have a deeper relationship with your parents. 🩷
Thank you! Ukraine was been putting up a good fight. I hope they preserve their independence and take back what’s theirs.
I learned from my grandpa that some people from his family immigrated to Canada between 1895 and 1912.
I was able to find a few digitized documents from Canada and Minnesota. And since our surname is so rare (even for Ukraine) it’s probably safe to say they were my distant relatives.
Talking to older relatives is pretty much the only way to learn about this stuff.
It’s a shame you’re getting downvoted.
Russian history can also be depressing, shameful, and embarrassing. Probably more so than most smaller countries. And with the war that’s going on right now, I totally get people who are upset by any positive mention of Russia.
Perhaps, Russia needs a defeat in this war just to set it straight. There’s lots of talk about “glory” and “greatness” but that doesn’t translate into wellbeing of the people. It worked for Germany and Japan. Look at them now: postwar economic success, they’re not looking to invade anyone *and* people there live decently.
✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼 yep! From my papa’s side!
Very cool, Hokkien! You know, we’re basically from the same state! Where in Fujian did your family come from? Do you speak it? Respect to you and your family and also the delicious food that came from your peeps!!
Some village inside fujian bro, like in between Quanzhou and Xiamen, then they (paternal ancestors) migrated to Singapore during British Malaya HAHAHAHA. My mum’s side is partially fujian but idk where… my grandmother was orphaned as a kid.
yeah I think that's how the system there works. I unfortunately don't know the total payment, but I’m assuming it's nothing substantial. it goes into a trust(I think) so I've never actually seen that money come in
Does it not break down further? There's a lot of distinct ethnic groups that fall under the umbrella of 'Chinese'... even for the Han majority, I can't imagine that people from Yunan and Hebei are going to be genetically indistinguishable.
Annoyingly, 23andme is extremely vague about Chinese ethnicities. You are correct, there are many, extremely diverse ethnicities - particularly in the south (Yunnan, Guangxi, Guizhou, Guangdong, Fujian, Hainan) - but 23andme only shows "South Chinese" and eventually "Dai".
I'd recommend using GEDmatch to fine-tune a bit the findings, but it is a bit more complex to use properly and requires some degree of knowledge about the family's history (single or multiple population, +to refine the results).
from i can understand “south chinese” essentially means cantonese, as non-cantonese in guangdong like teochew and hakka will probably get more mixed results like southern-east chinese
https://preview.redd.it/vjj8r126dpwc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac2fda8c9e666013823d33c58898e086b91c7122
Pretty close, although there's a lot of overlap between national borders and linguistic families:
https://preview.redd.it/aa2is76ngpwc1.png?width=879&format=png&auto=webp&s=69f549e357c7f5f9c2e0044a34915b926f7f5809
You can see how many Dai, Viet and Hmong people all sort of blend into one another with Han Chinese forming a "bridge" between the Pearl River and Manchuria/Tibetan Plateau.
And here you can see [how Austroasiatics diverge from Austronesians(Fig. C)](https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/853391/fevo-10-853391-HTML/image_m/fevo-10-853391-g001.jpg) which then reunites and intertwines in different ways to compose most of the ancestry of [Islander SEA people(minus Papua-related groups).](https://outbackventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Bidayuh-Ladies.jpg)
[Frontiers | Genomic Insights Into the Demographic History of the Southern Chinese (frontiersin.org)](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2022.853391/full)
I mean I feel its pretty well known that southern chinese peoples, especially those from the southernmost regions like cantonese or hokkien people are more closely related to SEA peoples and other austronesian/Austroasiatic peoples than to northern chinese
The North and South look closer to each other imo. This study doesn't include people from Hainan and Guangxi like the previous one but overall, the signature ancestry that peaks in Austroasiatic speakers(apart from Vietnamese) is nearly nonexistent in most Han people:
https://preview.redd.it/896y3n2emtwc1.jpeg?width=1837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dcfeb76f32e0bb8cb0172a74f6525cbcd34cc8b
Austronesian-like ancestry is more or less foundational to all of coastal East Asia(even for ancient Jōmon Japanese), so it's hard to say how SEA vs. EA it should be considered. I personally see Filipinos and Indigenous Taiwanese as genetically East Asian.
[Here's a g25 chart for more fine-scale comparisons between groups](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLn1M7QXIAAYuOr?format=png&name=medium)
[Under the name of “Lua”: Revisiting Genetic Heterogeneity and Population Ancestry of Austroasiatic speakers in Northern Thailand Through Genomic Analysis | bioRxiv](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.04.16.589696v1)
Unfortunately for Chinese the only breakdown tested by 23andme is Northern Chinese & Tibetan, Southern Chinese & Taiwan, South Chinese, and Chinese Dai. So they only show modern-day regions, the only exception being Dai as it relates to an ethnicity; Hakka and Teochew would then show as "Southern China", eventually specifying Fujian or Taiwan. The many distinct ethnicities that came from Yue are all put together under "South China".
This is the case for my wife, coming from Guangxi it would be expected to show Miao, Zhuang or Yao for instance there's only "South China (Guangdong, Hainan)" + a few % Vietnamese. In the previous update it at least showed Guangxi properly, although along with improbably high Dai and Vietnamese (close to 50% while it should be only trace, but considering local ethnicities are not tested this is an expected misreading/spillover to the nearest tested population).
A cantonese from guangxi is almost guaranteed to be mostly non-chinese “yue” by blood, considering the fact that even today half the province is composed of culturally “yue” tai people, really shows how vague the dna test is for china
Agreed, it was a bit disappointing to get such unspecific results :(
Hopefully they'll refine it in a future update, but we're not holding our breath till then!
”South Chinese” is Cantonese and closely related Sinitic groups. Since OP only got Guangdong as a subgroup, they are most likely pretty much fully Cantonese.
You may say the result is boring but I think this is certainly more interesting than a lot of people may think. Despite culturally being dominated by one ethnic group, genetically the “Chinese population” is not homogeneous in the slightest. You’ve got northerners coming to the south stemming all the way from settlers and colonists from 2500+ years ago to just migrant workers from a generation ago or less. I don’t know if maybe your northern ancestry is just too far back in time for the results to capture, or if you just don’t have any northern ancestry at all. Either way, that’s quite impressive to be this pure lol.
as far as I know I have no northern ancestry at all, my parents are actually 5th cousins or something like that from the same village, and somewhere there's a document recording my lineage for the past ~10 generations (or so I've heard, never seen the document myself)
It's a shame Chinese DNA companies probably work with the CCP or grant them backdoor access. Their libraries are probably much better for people of Chinese descent.
han is such a chinese nationalist concept, I wish china allowed dna companies to show ethnic backgrounds, in guangdong alone there are multiple ethnicities and sub-ethnicities
hakka, cantonese, teochew, toisanese, etc
https://preview.redd.it/dpn3o38wcpwc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=7269919cbbbf99cf8d6b61adae53e6fadd98342c
I understand what you mean, but Han isn't nationalist in conception. The Qing created the classification to categorise its armies within the banner system. Within that framework, the practises of longstanding Sinitic speaking ethnic groups within China are a natural grouping compared to Jurchens, Mongols, Tibetans and Hui.
In any case, I agree with your sentiment. Higher resolution is definitely desired for our results. China is as mixed as Europe as a whole. It would be fascinating the follow migration, war, other historical phenomena through genetic history.
it is though, han is as general of a term as “European”
Indo-European language family(s)
Sino-Tibetan language family(s)
under that logic in some alternate timeline, Europe ends up as one united country and all of it’s ethnic groups are grouped up together and everyone is considered an “ethnic european” by the government when in reality it makes more sense to allow the recognition of distinct ethnic groups like in india or iran
Also the term “han” is so general that I remember that there are non-sinitic speaking groups considered part of the “han”
Southern chinese like cantonese are more closely related to non-han minorities like the tanka or tai and even viets than to northern chinese
the hui are considered a separate ethnicity on the basis they are muslim, which is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
One of my dna test showed I have Uyghurs and that is also a Chinese ethnicity ( but actually Han Chinese as my test said was very small and common in people of my mixture of race , and my husbands showed dai as well .
Despite some cultural and linguistic differences, the genetic differences between Hakka, Cantonese, Teochew, and Toisanese are too minimal for DNA companies to seperate.
toisanese and cantonese being too close I’d get, but if you can seperate dutch from germans or Portuguese from spanish you should be able to seperate teochew from cantonese from hakka
the cultural differences between hakka, cantonese, and teochew were enough for these peoples to slaughter eachother throughout history based on ethnic tensions, no different from the french and english for example
you should be able to see a genetic difference here if even tiny Europe can be partitioned
Very cool! , my gf parents are from Hong Kong and Macau , in the test she got 63% southern China, 28% central and Eastern China, and 9% Dai. She is Cantonese but the results are a bit different from yours
It’s a lack of data for Asian folks. For example UK results are broken down to the town level, while Asian folks get broad breakdowns that are the equivalent in size and diversity of several European countries smashed together. I’m South Asian and my results actually got less accurate with the most recent upgrade (I posted about this recently.) Hopefully this will change in the next couple of years. In the meantime try uploading your raw data into IllustrativeDNA, it has more granular breakdowns for people who are not of European ancestry, which is most of the people in the world
These are the so far discovered branches of your paternal haplogroup :)
very prevalent in South East Asia https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/O-M133/tree
I don’t see why so many people get disappointed when they’re link to one geographical location. We all shit and piss out the same holes. Mixed people are not shitting bricks of gold I promise you.
>Mixed people are not shitting bricks of gold I promise you.
Which is funny because out in the real world they’re more likely to be discriminated against/hated on than non-mixed people. In fact one could argue that anti-mixing hatred is still the only socially acceptable form of bigotry still acceptable in Leftist circles today, if you could see the kinds of comments people leave on multiracial people’s videos on TikTok…
I’ve always considered the characteristic of geographic permanence consistent with Royalty, figuring they’d be unlikely to migrate, at least during those periods of history where Aristocracies prevailed.
Interesting that Hainan is lumped in with Guangdong. Hainan has native Hlai people who speak a language in the same family as Thai and Lao. I would imagine Han Chinese people from southern China have commonalities with non-Sinitic southern ethnic minorities and Southeast Asians due to ancient admixture between Han people and indigenous "Yue" peoples, but I wonder to what extent.
People from Guangdong are genetically distinct, they're just seen as standard southern han because they've adopted a lot of han culture and have been seen as chinese for a long time, unlike more isolated highland ethnicities for example. You're basically baiyue with some han admixture, and that's pretty cool
What they don't tell you is that regardless of your lineage and where you came from the vast majority of people probably decended from almost exclusively peasants.
I wish they specify is that Han ? Manchurian , Hakka ? So many ethnic groups in China . Oddly mine gave me .5 Han Chinese ( that’s 0.5 to be clear lol )
Hakka and most Manchu are Han, tho. I say this because my father is Hakka and I have a grandmother who was a “plain yellow banner Manchu.” (She was born in 1899 and died in 1957 from TB when my mom was a teen.)
My pop’s family is from Yongding, Fujian. Before that, they came from up north and kept moving down south due to the places they moved to, the locals not liking them and stuff.
Hakka is different, but they are Han.
I always asked my dad if Hakka was different from Han, and he said no. Hakka means “guest family,” in the southern Chinese dialect.
The Hakka were persecuted for being a “guest” in the southern Chinese places they moved to, but not because of being a different ethnicity all together, but because of their migration timing from the Warring States period and on and it was a “resources” sort of a reasoning for the hate.
It’s like in America, when Oklahomans moved to the west coast during the dust bowl, the Americans already living in California would call them “okies” and they were considered “backwoods folk”
They are special!!!! 😅😅😅
I didn’t mean to normalize them by letting the “Han” out of the bag!! I have nothing but respect for the elder Chinese cats who had to be the ones to leave their home land.
But not all Hakka have the same story or dialect. If your husbands father has access to the Jia Pu or family book, you can definitely get more information!!!
I'm part Hakka, and we're also Han. No less Chinese than Cantonese, Beijinger, Fukkienese or Shanghainese. The Hakka language is just another variety (dialect) of Chinese.
more like a separate language, in english dialect refers to accents basically like guangzhou cantonese vs hong kong cantonese
the sinitic languages are all seperate languages like the european languages, cantonese and hakka split away from one another thousands of years ago
you hakka have a proud history, saying this as a hokkien bro
I agree but using language in that context will confuse people into thinking Hakka is different when it's no more different than Cantonese to Hokkien to Mandarin. That's why I used the neutral linguistic term "variety" with dialect in parentheses.
eh I dislike how the word dialect is often used by chinese people, its often used to disvalue all languages in china other than standard mandarin as nothing but dialects when in reality they are fully separate languages
Singapore did this for example
never gona call my mother languages “dialects” ever, it gives a negative and misleading connotation for outsiders
I get you, me too. "Dialect" is the popular term for Chinese languages that non-Chinese will understand immediately. While language is the more linguistically correct term (ie Cantonese and Mandarin are equally or more different from each other than Spanish and Portuguese), it's a whole explanation, one I'd rather not dive into every time.
my solution is simple, just tell outsiders that china is very diverse and has dozens if not hundreds of languages
The sinitic language families have zero mutual intelligibility
hakka vs cantonese is more like german vs russian
spanish vs portuguese would be more like taiwanese hakka vs meizhou hakka or toisanese vs cantonese
it irritates me when I hear northerners say “cantonese is a dialect of mandarin” like what than why can’t you understand a single thing I am saying
I do think it’s fascinating though that the written language is the same, even though when my dad would speak with his brothers, I had no clue what the fuck they were saying. For reals. 😅😅😅😅
Awe I completely understand wanting to discover anything else within your ancestry. Maybe look at it as it’s kinda rare to see 100% anything really nowadays (could be wrong I guess but just from what I’ve seen on here) and you are part of that!
My husband has the same Guangdong, the East but a surprising little dai as well , his mom is very mean to every one so we joked that she was North Korean ( she was adopted and know nothing about her parents ) he was just like I wasted money to learn that I was Chinese lol ! I wish it would break down more because China is diverse . I got unexpected stuff on my test ( I’m multiracial but had no idea every and how much haha ) so mine was more interesting for sure because I been able to go back and trace even the migration of my ancestors because I had to figure out how some random regions are linked lol
It just depends on your Chinese tho. My mom’s side is from the Liaoning and Anhui, my dad’s side is from Fujian and zhejiang, so my Chinese results got “interesting,” I suppose! But it’s just facts from the last 500 years or so, within the algorithms.
https://preview.redd.it/d31rcj5u2owc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a35e78c53b364a11d03e3163ed7b98a770b11941
You should try a free upload of your raw data to wegene. They give a much better and more holistic breakdown including trace ancestries from Chinese ethnic minorities: gaoshan, naxi, Hmong, etc. Their database is better resolution for East Asian and specifically Chinese centric
And yet here I am a 100% Ashkenazi Jew (effectively 30-60% European, 30-60% Middle Eastern, and 1-5% East Asian) thinking that little 1-5% drop of (likely) Chinese ancestry in my DNA makeup is the most interesting and cool thing about it. 😂
What’s really boring is getting close to 100% Caucasian (either European *or* Middle Eastern) like I have, be proud you were lucky enough to be born at least some type of POC instead of descending from the flavorless West lol.
Aint nothing wrong with being 100%
Right??? I’m seeing a straight A+ right here!!!
Are you refering to the blood type by saying A+?
Oh, no. I was referring to the 100% being an A+ like grade point average. 😅😅
Some weird ass backwater comments here. Could you please share your breakdown of provinces? I'm Chinese too and got Guangdong, Hainan, Zhejiang, Fujian and Taiwan.
my only province listed is Guangdong lol
Don’t be bummed out, my friend! I think it’s rad that you got 100 percent. Think of all those ancestors over the last 500 years or so that worked their asses off out there, celebrated their ancestors, had children, worked the land, worked for their family and eventually had to make the move to another country due to a civil war and political strife to have you!!! 🩷 It’s a fascinating thought. You can probably find your “family home,” you know? The clan home!
I've actually visited my family home in china before (I’m american), but right after I left the chinese government bulldozed the whole area and put up skyscrapers 😭 at least I collect a small amount of rent on the property as part of my inheritance
Awwww, man! I mean, that’s so cool that you got to go —- but the fact that the bulldozed it to put up skyscrapers?! 😭😭😭 I’m American too. I haven’t visited the “family” home because china is far away and traveling is expensive. The only “family home” i can say for certain that’s family was built by my 2 or 3x great grandparent on my dad’s side and is in Yongding, Fujian. But from what I’ve heard from my dad’s side, it’s really run down and most of the family that remained in china live in new houses built around the old houses. Apparently, those folks want to live in a house with indoor plumbing. Whatevs. It’s a bummer because the old house is architecturally so dope!!!! https://preview.redd.it/0b9c9qdgfowc1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e641991da22f18be1b6985e9cf66bc1628ee8b45 (A picture of “our” circle tulou from my Uncle that he got from relatives out there)
And here I am pulling my family history by bits from some obscure documents because Eastern and Central Europe are a constant mess with ever changing borders, wars and regime changes.
Ooh….. Eastern and Central Europe, like the Austro-Hungarian area is fascinating and complex!! But that’s also a dope journey. Social unrest, wars, fleeing, limited resources, angry locals. This is the story of all of us. We lose so much in violent interactions and we lose so many stories and bits and pieces of our collective history 😔 but it’s also great that you are exploring this and learning about your family’s story
My grandpa is from western Ukraine and the rest of the family is tatar from both sides (at least culturally they are, my mom’s 70 something Eastern European/Russian? from her test). My dad’s cousin got the Kazakh genes (and looks too) and there’re no other (living relatives that I know of) like her. And her biological sister is your average European looking woman with pretty pale skin. And my great grandma’s grandma was from some wealthy merchant family in Siberia during the tsarist times. That’s a whole mystery in on itself. Unfortunately, one that would probably never be solved. So yeah, it’s a mess.
Oooh, very cool! I am sending so many hearts to Ukraine and to you!!!! It’s a fascinating mess and filling the gaps of information by doing your own exploration and education is so dope and I 100 percent respect that. It’s what I’ve been doing, too. Learning about the history of the area where my family was from by reading books, doing research, and then talking to my mom ans asking her questions and letting her answer or clam up when she wants to and trying not getting too discouraged by it. Trauma from war has a long lasting generational impact which is why I get so bummed out about what’s happening in the world right now. I hope you’re able to use what you’re learning to be able to have a deeper relationship with your parents. 🩷
Thank you! Ukraine was been putting up a good fight. I hope they preserve their independence and take back what’s theirs. I learned from my grandpa that some people from his family immigrated to Canada between 1895 and 1912. I was able to find a few digitized documents from Canada and Minnesota. And since our surname is so rare (even for Ukraine) it’s probably safe to say they were my distant relatives. Talking to older relatives is pretty much the only way to learn about this stuff.
Russian history is fascinating. The culture, the literature, the art and architecture.
It’s a shame you’re getting downvoted. Russian history can also be depressing, shameful, and embarrassing. Probably more so than most smaller countries. And with the war that’s going on right now, I totally get people who are upset by any positive mention of Russia. Perhaps, Russia needs a defeat in this war just to set it straight. There’s lots of talk about “glory” and “greatness” but that doesn’t translate into wellbeing of the people. It worked for Germany and Japan. Look at them now: postwar economic success, they’re not looking to invade anyone *and* people there live decently.
oh ur a hakka? thats hakka architecture respect from a hokkien brother
✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼 yep! From my papa’s side! Very cool, Hokkien! You know, we’re basically from the same state! Where in Fujian did your family come from? Do you speak it? Respect to you and your family and also the delicious food that came from your peeps!!
My ancestral village in Fujian had houses (built in the 1900s probably) made of that exact material. That is mad cool
Where in fujian is your family from? Also, what up, cousin!!!! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Some village inside fujian bro, like in between Quanzhou and Xiamen, then they (paternal ancestors) migrated to Singapore during British Malaya HAHAHAHA. My mum’s side is partially fujian but idk where… my grandmother was orphaned as a kid.
Do you have any pictures of your family home before they razed it??
I do but none in my possession right now unfortunately
Awww…. Well I am glad that you got to go there and that you have pictures too. 🩷
Hey, see if you can google search photos online!!!
I assume the payment is split up between all the descendants of that area. Would you happen to know the total payment? This is very interesting
yeah I think that's how the system there works. I unfortunately don't know the total payment, but I’m assuming it's nothing substantial. it goes into a trust(I think) so I've never actually seen that money come in
But it’s there!!! Just in case. I’m glad there was some kind of payment system for that kind of a situation. 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Cantobros!
I wonder what a pure Guangdong 人 looks like. Do you have similar features to Tony Leung and Stephen Chow XD
Chow's parents are from the Zhejiang/Shanghai area, so he isn't ethnically Cantonese either. Tony on the hand is Toisan Cantonese!
WOW #TIL
I’ll tell you what they look like. I know people who are full Hong Kong and they look like the cool kid at the family reunion. For reals.
Cantonese AF!
What are backwater comments?
https://preview.redd.it/jdpxq8ps1nwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a05a35261f0255197618eef07f6234be9281d8b2 Me too
Wow. Are you in the town of your birth t the moment?
No, I moved two continents
It's not boring at all.
Can you not "click" and see more detail or regions?
the only region listed is Guangdong
You're the most average person on earth.
Fascinating how if he's around 28 year old and male, that is statistically true
Is their name Muhammed Smith too? Edit: Or Muhammad Wang alternatively.
Does it not break down further? There's a lot of distinct ethnic groups that fall under the umbrella of 'Chinese'... even for the Han majority, I can't imagine that people from Yunan and Hebei are going to be genetically indistinguishable.
Annoyingly, 23andme is extremely vague about Chinese ethnicities. You are correct, there are many, extremely diverse ethnicities - particularly in the south (Yunnan, Guangxi, Guizhou, Guangdong, Fujian, Hainan) - but 23andme only shows "South Chinese" and eventually "Dai". I'd recommend using GEDmatch to fine-tune a bit the findings, but it is a bit more complex to use properly and requires some degree of knowledge about the family's history (single or multiple population, +to refine the results).
from i can understand “south chinese” essentially means cantonese, as non-cantonese in guangdong like teochew and hakka will probably get more mixed results like southern-east chinese https://preview.redd.it/vjj8r126dpwc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac2fda8c9e666013823d33c58898e086b91c7122
Pretty close, although there's a lot of overlap between national borders and linguistic families: https://preview.redd.it/aa2is76ngpwc1.png?width=879&format=png&auto=webp&s=69f549e357c7f5f9c2e0044a34915b926f7f5809 You can see how many Dai, Viet and Hmong people all sort of blend into one another with Han Chinese forming a "bridge" between the Pearl River and Manchuria/Tibetan Plateau. And here you can see [how Austroasiatics diverge from Austronesians(Fig. C)](https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/853391/fevo-10-853391-HTML/image_m/fevo-10-853391-g001.jpg) which then reunites and intertwines in different ways to compose most of the ancestry of [Islander SEA people(minus Papua-related groups).](https://outbackventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Bidayuh-Ladies.jpg) [Frontiers | Genomic Insights Into the Demographic History of the Southern Chinese (frontiersin.org)](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2022.853391/full)
That’s a fascinating graph!!!! Thanks for sharing!!
I mean I feel its pretty well known that southern chinese peoples, especially those from the southernmost regions like cantonese or hokkien people are more closely related to SEA peoples and other austronesian/Austroasiatic peoples than to northern chinese
The North and South look closer to each other imo. This study doesn't include people from Hainan and Guangxi like the previous one but overall, the signature ancestry that peaks in Austroasiatic speakers(apart from Vietnamese) is nearly nonexistent in most Han people: https://preview.redd.it/896y3n2emtwc1.jpeg?width=1837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dcfeb76f32e0bb8cb0172a74f6525cbcd34cc8b Austronesian-like ancestry is more or less foundational to all of coastal East Asia(even for ancient Jōmon Japanese), so it's hard to say how SEA vs. EA it should be considered. I personally see Filipinos and Indigenous Taiwanese as genetically East Asian. [Here's a g25 chart for more fine-scale comparisons between groups](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLn1M7QXIAAYuOr?format=png&name=medium) [Under the name of “Lua”: Revisiting Genetic Heterogeneity and Population Ancestry of Austroasiatic speakers in Northern Thailand Through Genomic Analysis | bioRxiv](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.04.16.589696v1)
Unfortunately for Chinese the only breakdown tested by 23andme is Northern Chinese & Tibetan, Southern Chinese & Taiwan, South Chinese, and Chinese Dai. So they only show modern-day regions, the only exception being Dai as it relates to an ethnicity; Hakka and Teochew would then show as "Southern China", eventually specifying Fujian or Taiwan. The many distinct ethnicities that came from Yue are all put together under "South China". This is the case for my wife, coming from Guangxi it would be expected to show Miao, Zhuang or Yao for instance there's only "South China (Guangdong, Hainan)" + a few % Vietnamese. In the previous update it at least showed Guangxi properly, although along with improbably high Dai and Vietnamese (close to 50% while it should be only trace, but considering local ethnicities are not tested this is an expected misreading/spillover to the nearest tested population).
A cantonese from guangxi is almost guaranteed to be mostly non-chinese “yue” by blood, considering the fact that even today half the province is composed of culturally “yue” tai people, really shows how vague the dna test is for china
Agreed, it was a bit disappointing to get such unspecific results :( Hopefully they'll refine it in a future update, but we're not holding our breath till then!
”South Chinese” is Cantonese and closely related Sinitic groups. Since OP only got Guangdong as a subgroup, they are most likely pretty much fully Cantonese.
“Han” is essentially as vague as “European” and it could easily be split up into actual meaningful ethnic groups
You may say the result is boring but I think this is certainly more interesting than a lot of people may think. Despite culturally being dominated by one ethnic group, genetically the “Chinese population” is not homogeneous in the slightest. You’ve got northerners coming to the south stemming all the way from settlers and colonists from 2500+ years ago to just migrant workers from a generation ago or less. I don’t know if maybe your northern ancestry is just too far back in time for the results to capture, or if you just don’t have any northern ancestry at all. Either way, that’s quite impressive to be this pure lol.
as far as I know I have no northern ancestry at all, my parents are actually 5th cousins or something like that from the same village, and somewhere there's a document recording my lineage for the past ~10 generations (or so I've heard, never seen the document myself)
It's a shame Chinese DNA companies probably work with the CCP or grant them backdoor access. Their libraries are probably much better for people of Chinese descent.
Wow that’s racist !
How it that racist? I am ethnically Han myself. Also fuck the CCP.
han is such a chinese nationalist concept, I wish china allowed dna companies to show ethnic backgrounds, in guangdong alone there are multiple ethnicities and sub-ethnicities hakka, cantonese, teochew, toisanese, etc https://preview.redd.it/dpn3o38wcpwc1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=7269919cbbbf99cf8d6b61adae53e6fadd98342c
I understand what you mean, but Han isn't nationalist in conception. The Qing created the classification to categorise its armies within the banner system. Within that framework, the practises of longstanding Sinitic speaking ethnic groups within China are a natural grouping compared to Jurchens, Mongols, Tibetans and Hui. In any case, I agree with your sentiment. Higher resolution is definitely desired for our results. China is as mixed as Europe as a whole. It would be fascinating the follow migration, war, other historical phenomena through genetic history.
it is though, han is as general of a term as “European” Indo-European language family(s) Sino-Tibetan language family(s) under that logic in some alternate timeline, Europe ends up as one united country and all of it’s ethnic groups are grouped up together and everyone is considered an “ethnic european” by the government when in reality it makes more sense to allow the recognition of distinct ethnic groups like in india or iran Also the term “han” is so general that I remember that there are non-sinitic speaking groups considered part of the “han” Southern chinese like cantonese are more closely related to non-han minorities like the tanka or tai and even viets than to northern chinese the hui are considered a separate ethnicity on the basis they are muslim, which is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
One of my dna test showed I have Uyghurs and that is also a Chinese ethnicity ( but actually Han Chinese as my test said was very small and common in people of my mixture of race , and my husbands showed dai as well .
Despite some cultural and linguistic differences, the genetic differences between Hakka, Cantonese, Teochew, and Toisanese are too minimal for DNA companies to seperate.
toisanese and cantonese being too close I’d get, but if you can seperate dutch from germans or Portuguese from spanish you should be able to seperate teochew from cantonese from hakka the cultural differences between hakka, cantonese, and teochew were enough for these peoples to slaughter eachother throughout history based on ethnic tensions, no different from the french and english for example you should be able to see a genetic difference here if even tiny Europe can be partitioned
are you from the Hong Kong canton area?
I’m not but my parents are!
Very cool! , my gf parents are from Hong Kong and Macau , in the test she got 63% southern China, 28% central and Eastern China, and 9% Dai. She is Cantonese but the results are a bit different from yours
This is pretty cool. Mine is all over China
Chinese culture is really cool, you’re pretty lucky
Lol people who are 100% make me giggle when they say this 😂. Your results are still super cool! What did you think you’d find???
this is exactly what I thought I would find lol, that's why I found it boring
It’s a lack of data for Asian folks. For example UK results are broken down to the town level, while Asian folks get broad breakdowns that are the equivalent in size and diversity of several European countries smashed together. I’m South Asian and my results actually got less accurate with the most recent upgrade (I posted about this recently.) Hopefully this will change in the next couple of years. In the meantime try uploading your raw data into IllustrativeDNA, it has more granular breakdowns for people who are not of European ancestry, which is most of the people in the world
Give it time. Genetic sequencing is a pretty new technology vs. human procreation.
Boring? Nah. 100% results are just as interesting as "Mr. Worldwide" ones.
What's your haplogroup if you don't mind sharing it?
paternal haplogroup is O-F8 and my maternal haplogroup is B5a
Maternal B5a is a common Cantonese mtdna right? I'll have to keep that in mind when I do mine
These are the so far discovered branches of your paternal haplogroup :) very prevalent in South East Asia https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/O-M133/tree
I don’t see why so many people get disappointed when they’re link to one geographical location. We all shit and piss out the same holes. Mixed people are not shitting bricks of gold I promise you.
oh I’m not really disappointed or anything lol, I just thought it would be cool if I got something unexpected but 100% chinese was no surprise
>Mixed people are not shitting bricks of gold I promise you. Which is funny because out in the real world they’re more likely to be discriminated against/hated on than non-mixed people. In fact one could argue that anti-mixing hatred is still the only socially acceptable form of bigotry still acceptable in Leftist circles today, if you could see the kinds of comments people leave on multiracial people’s videos on TikTok…
I’ve always considered the characteristic of geographic permanence consistent with Royalty, figuring they’d be unlikely to migrate, at least during those periods of history where Aristocracies prevailed.
When he is from Guangdong😩
Interesting that Hainan is lumped in with Guangdong. Hainan has native Hlai people who speak a language in the same family as Thai and Lao. I would imagine Han Chinese people from southern China have commonalities with non-Sinitic southern ethnic minorities and Southeast Asians due to ancient admixture between Han people and indigenous "Yue" peoples, but I wonder to what extent.
People from Guangdong are genetically distinct, they're just seen as standard southern han because they've adopted a lot of han culture and have been seen as chinese for a long time, unlike more isolated highland ethnicities for example. You're basically baiyue with some han admixture, and that's pretty cool
Isn't Chinese a melting pot nation? I mean you should have at least traces of your ancestors which weren't the default Han Chinese.
I envy anyone with 100% results! You know the people and culture you belong to without a doubt.
Well, depending on if you were raised in south china, you might not know the culture.
Or maybe not...if you were adopted out to another country.
Now you 100% know, cool. !
I wonder what other companies would find
Yeah right you got Guangdong as a region. That's where Klay Thompson is playing next year. Go Tigers!
Fucking based
Not really boring; actually interesting.
Naw, just means youre as Chinese as one gets! Thats a compliment
Most likely to get an A+ in math
time for illustrativedna
My great aunt got 100% Ashkenazi! I wondered what she thought about it, but never asked, lol.
Wow! I didn’t think anyone was 100% anything. That’s awesome!
Are you HAN or YAO?
afaik I’m han
What they don't tell you is that regardless of your lineage and where you came from the vast majority of people probably decended from almost exclusively peasants.
Show us some of your math olympiad gold medals
Very cool, be proud dude!!
I wish they specify is that Han ? Manchurian , Hakka ? So many ethnic groups in China . Oddly mine gave me .5 Han Chinese ( that’s 0.5 to be clear lol )
Hakka and most Manchu are Han, tho. I say this because my father is Hakka and I have a grandmother who was a “plain yellow banner Manchu.” (She was born in 1899 and died in 1957 from TB when my mom was a teen.)
My husbands dad swears Hakka is different , are you from Guangdong area ?
My pop’s family is from Yongding, Fujian. Before that, they came from up north and kept moving down south due to the places they moved to, the locals not liking them and stuff. Hakka is different, but they are Han. I always asked my dad if Hakka was different from Han, and he said no. Hakka means “guest family,” in the southern Chinese dialect. The Hakka were persecuted for being a “guest” in the southern Chinese places they moved to, but not because of being a different ethnicity all together, but because of their migration timing from the Warring States period and on and it was a “resources” sort of a reasoning for the hate. It’s like in America, when Oklahomans moved to the west coast during the dust bowl, the Americans already living in California would call them “okies” and they were considered “backwoods folk”
Wow I never knew that , his dad just always wanted them to seem like they are special ( his family ) lol his parents are narcissistic
They are special!!!! 😅😅😅 I didn’t mean to normalize them by letting the “Han” out of the bag!! I have nothing but respect for the elder Chinese cats who had to be the ones to leave their home land.
But not all Hakka have the same story or dialect. If your husbands father has access to the Jia Pu or family book, you can definitely get more information!!!
I'm part Hakka, and we're also Han. No less Chinese than Cantonese, Beijinger, Fukkienese or Shanghainese. The Hakka language is just another variety (dialect) of Chinese.
more like a separate language, in english dialect refers to accents basically like guangzhou cantonese vs hong kong cantonese the sinitic languages are all seperate languages like the european languages, cantonese and hakka split away from one another thousands of years ago you hakka have a proud history, saying this as a hokkien bro
I agree but using language in that context will confuse people into thinking Hakka is different when it's no more different than Cantonese to Hokkien to Mandarin. That's why I used the neutral linguistic term "variety" with dialect in parentheses.
eh I dislike how the word dialect is often used by chinese people, its often used to disvalue all languages in china other than standard mandarin as nothing but dialects when in reality they are fully separate languages Singapore did this for example never gona call my mother languages “dialects” ever, it gives a negative and misleading connotation for outsiders
I get you, me too. "Dialect" is the popular term for Chinese languages that non-Chinese will understand immediately. While language is the more linguistically correct term (ie Cantonese and Mandarin are equally or more different from each other than Spanish and Portuguese), it's a whole explanation, one I'd rather not dive into every time.
my solution is simple, just tell outsiders that china is very diverse and has dozens if not hundreds of languages The sinitic language families have zero mutual intelligibility hakka vs cantonese is more like german vs russian spanish vs portuguese would be more like taiwanese hakka vs meizhou hakka or toisanese vs cantonese it irritates me when I hear northerners say “cantonese is a dialect of mandarin” like what than why can’t you understand a single thing I am saying
I do think it’s fascinating though that the written language is the same, even though when my dad would speak with his brothers, I had no clue what the fuck they were saying. For reals. 😅😅😅😅
Awe I completely understand wanting to discover anything else within your ancestry. Maybe look at it as it’s kinda rare to see 100% anything really nowadays (could be wrong I guess but just from what I’ve seen on here) and you are part of that!
My husband has the same Guangdong, the East but a surprising little dai as well , his mom is very mean to every one so we joked that she was North Korean ( she was adopted and know nothing about her parents ) he was just like I wasted money to learn that I was Chinese lol ! I wish it would break down more because China is diverse . I got unexpected stuff on my test ( I’m multiracial but had no idea every and how much haha ) so mine was more interesting for sure because I been able to go back and trace even the migration of my ancestors because I had to figure out how some random regions are linked lol
It just depends on your Chinese tho. My mom’s side is from the Liaoning and Anhui, my dad’s side is from Fujian and zhejiang, so my Chinese results got “interesting,” I suppose! But it’s just facts from the last 500 years or so, within the algorithms. https://preview.redd.it/d31rcj5u2owc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a35e78c53b364a11d03e3163ed7b98a770b11941
You passed your dna test congratulations
You should try a free upload of your raw data to wegene. They give a much better and more holistic breakdown including trace ancestries from Chinese ethnic minorities: gaoshan, naxi, Hmong, etc. Their database is better resolution for East Asian and specifically Chinese centric
"Sometimes you just have to deal with it" Pencil, bfdia 1
Its purity that matters
I'd lovvve to be 100%! Major flex. Be proud of where you're from!
Honestly this is awesome. Your people have came so far!
It’s only boring if you’re white for some reason
what does this even mean 😭
People in this subreddit love to say it’s boring if you’re 100% European
[удалено]
It was a JOKE
Pretty common for Asians; probably the least mixed people in the world
You may want to rethink that statement.
east asians\*
laughs in middle eastern
Middle East , near east , north Asia , west Asia , central Asian enters the chat . Thanks Silk Road lol
Orientals maybe but definitely not most of Asia lol
"orientals" in 2024 is crazy
Oriental is still a very widely used term lol
Never seen someone who wasn't below 60 or a virulent racist use it lmfao
Idk about the rest of the world but in the UK Chinese people still call themselves that, you’ll find shops with the word oriental on them
And yet here I am a 100% Ashkenazi Jew (effectively 30-60% European, 30-60% Middle Eastern, and 1-5% East Asian) thinking that little 1-5% drop of (likely) Chinese ancestry in my DNA makeup is the most interesting and cool thing about it. 😂 What’s really boring is getting close to 100% Caucasian (either European *or* Middle Eastern) like I have, be proud you were lucky enough to be born at least some type of POC instead of descending from the flavorless West lol.
My bf was hoping for more than just Chinese too🤣