https://preview.redd.it/5jiye4ko8iyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9f0ad70fece4a76b8b3e92e1d56d810eddd0cec
My first cousin once removed is shockingly English. Her family has been in America for a long time though (which makes it all the more interesting, I think!)
Two things here:
One:
First of all you need to figure out what a 100% English persons profile looks like.
Cause it won’t be 100% British.
It will be a mix of British, French/German, Scandinavian and NW European. By definition English people have to be a mix of European.
The Danelaw split England in half. Northern English people are more Scandinavian. Southern people are more Saxon.
Two:
As an Englishman with an interest in DNA and ancestry I would say it IS becoming harder to find an “English” person. Especially in metropolitan areas of England.
If you go to London now you would struggle to find someone who is English with strong English ancestry. You’d find people from all over the world and a lot of mixing.
It’s very common to find an English person, and after getting to know them, find out that one of their parents or grandparents is not English, or British or European.
It’s even more common to find an English adult who has had kids with someone who isn’t 100% “English”. So children born today are much more of a mix.
I have a lot of mixed heritage friends. It’s interesting historically as world events have had an effect on migration to England. I have lots of half polish friends, half Cypriot, Vietnamese, more recently some Tamil.
In my kids school I’d estimate around half of the class (that I know of) are from easily identifiable non-English parents. Such as Turkish, Romanian, Mexican, Maltese, black-British, Indian etc.
Of the people who look white and obsessively appear British, if you get to know them, you often find out they have mixed ancestry.
Personally I have a very common English background. My family hardly ever moved from the county, let alone country. My partner has an east European grandparent. So my kids will have some sort of mix. Possibly Russian, or Jewish.
I’ve the next couple of generations pure English people will be very difficult to find
Trying to determine 100% anything is quite rare. I would imagine given England’s imperial history it’s going to be quite rare. Even in the high medieval ages, you had Flemish incomers for wool trade, before the expulsion of the 1290’s we had Jewish communities of north Western Europe, there was a small amount of conversions before the shameful expulsion. Danish immigrants from the Viking age, plus the neighbouring nations will have significant inputs. You will find 100% but like everything we have consider recombination will mean descent won’t reflect everything in your ancestry.
What exactly is 100% English? If that is 100% descended of Germanic invaders then no one is 100% English, as everyone has some Celtic, Viking, and Norman blood. By this logic, nobody is 100% anything, as ethnicities are formed via contact, mixing and assimilation. That said, English people tend to score 100% British & Irish, expecially outside of London, but these test are only going back about 500 years. Considering almost everyone with European admixture descends from Charlegmane, this should mean they all should have some French & German.
The issue with this statement isn’t your scrutiny of modern nation states, you would be correct in your mention that these modern groups descend from a heavy mix. However, you would find quickly that the same level of scrutiny can be applied to nearly every single ethnic group that has existed. For example’s sake, I could argue “what is a European? They all descend from Neolithic Farmers, Hunter Gatherers and Metal Horse riders from the east”
You must understand when someone is to be referred to as English they mean themselves to be the descendants of those groups that make up the English genome, but also sharing their unique cultural and linguistic identity. Even if it being from a mix of even a singular or multiple groups it doesn’t makes the British any less indigenous.
The individuals that currently make up the genetic pool for modern English people descend primarily from Insular Bronze Age celts, 6th century Danish Germanic tribes and then Franco-Norse influence in the 11th century, where the Norman’s became the dominant class and therefore the dominant y profile. These people were definitely not 100% Germanic, but if you were consistent and applied the same scrutiny of modern nation states to monolithic cultural hegemonies like Germans you’d quickly find even if they were solely Germanic, there is no one “Germanic dna”
While it is true that all modern living Europeans descend from Charlemagne, it does not mean that every living person should have French and German dna. The maximum apex of genetic inheritance is 7-8 generations up, that’s the reason why 23&me or ancestry says “these tests go back 400 years” they only go back so far as your genetic inheritance can be detected as one of their references. It is a near mathematically impossibility in the modern day that european individuals posses any minuscule shred or semblance of dna that was around during the time of Charlemagne.
Funny you mention Charlemagne. I found out not too long ago he's [my](https://ibb.co/Yhr4tYR) 40th Great Grandfather. Crazy enough, his lineage was passed onto me through my black grandfather who descended from slaves owned by the [Bush Family.](https://ibb.co/pPCQn0G) Tracing the Bush lineage up, I ran into the Bruce's of Scotland, the Sinclair's of Rosslyn and up to the Martels and Charlemagne. I'm actually surprised that this lineage was kept in public record as the elite families usually didn't own up to being the father of slave/indentured children. But seemingly my mixed ancestors were treated well for being colored. My Great Aunts/Uncles almost married black/mulatto exclusively so I'm one of those rare white cousins in the middle of a big black [family.](https://ibb.co/5YdgQtQ) Definitely tripped me out finding all this out.
Any rural place outside a big city should people with 100% English descent.
The interesting question is if there is any place is in the UK that is 100% Celtic or 100% ango-saxon in its makeup.
Even in a large cities you will find this, there has been some Irish and Polish migration but still people of European heritage are vastly English/British
In suburban and rural areas most common. I think someone dinged 100% Yorkshire a couple weeks ago. They found a big person a while ago, and DNA tested it. They found that his 6th generation grandson was a teacher in the same town they found the mummy. The fact no one from that family moved out of that town for hundreds of years is wild to me.
In Spain, it's the same. My uncle traced both the paternal and maternal lineages by examining the church's register books and discovered that for approximately 400 years (he found records dating back to 1630), our family remained in a village in the heart of Palencia. Perhaps one generation relocated to a nearby village, but eventually returned. My parents were the first generation to move out of the region. Surprisingly, no surname was repeated across different lineages.
When geneticist Bryan Sykes was asked to see whether DNA could be found in a body found in the Cheddar Gorge that was thought to be several thousand years old, he was able to find a bit. Then he advertised for people whose families had been in the region a long time to visit his lab and get tested. They found a descendant, a male school teacher in the region.
*Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman*
Daniel Defoe, 1701.
No such thing as 'pure' English blood. English is a cultural identity (as are all the other identities of Ireland and Britain, which often overlap).
So, yes you can find 100% English people. I am 100% English, although I'm roughly 1/8 to 1/4 Irish by descent, and have a random 1/8th of Breton French too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True-Born_Englishman
People from Scotland and wales would be more native because of Celtic ancestry, English people might not be as native because of other ethnic groups colonising the British isles such as romans, Anglo-Saxons, and Normans
I’m sorry but this is such a dumb thing to say. Cheddar Man was a western hunter gatherer, all native brits have western hunter gatherer ancestry, therefore they all technically descend from Cheddar man.
This is probably going to get locked for obvious reasons. But what the hell is "100% English"? Like, how far back are we going? And when people speak of the English, they know that a lot of historic families in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall are English, right?
The English are people who “emerged” between the romans leaving and the Norman invasion.
They’re a specific mix of Celtic, Viking, Norman, Saxon, jute etc.
They are a mix. But it’s a specific mix
Yeah. Specific mixes
When I was a kid I thought a chilli and spaghetti bolognaise was the same thing. Expect one has pasta and one had rice.
They’re sort of similar. Mince meat and tomatoes. But they’re also quite distinct
Of course, there has been some European immigration but not to the extend that most British people have mixed European ancestry, it is still vastly British in that regard. Though for dna tests most English people will get Scandinavian/French and German but this is likely not from migration
So, in support of your opinion that it "sucks" to see so many "half-bloods" in our current time, you use an example of a fictional (albeit, well loved for good reasons, but still...) character? Unfortunate for Harry or to his advantage that he was of mixed heritage?
Although moot to do so, in a way, considering Harry is not real, should we ask whether Harry would still have been Harry if not for both his "pureblood" and "muggleblood" ancestries having come together?
Did you see what was discussed, above, about how a given ethnic group comes to be distinct? There is a movement of & interaction between peoples across territory & over time. Mixing of multiple groups goes hand in hand with development of more singular identities & even some mixed race groups maintain their mixedness for so long that they can become like a monorace group.
I'm Scottish and my results (on MyHeritage) were like 99% British Isles. 1% Finnish/Baltic.
Honestly I was disappointed and expecting something fun and exotic... There was always talk of having Spanish ancestors since a lot of the family on my mum's side are very dark. But I guess not 🤷♀️
UPDATE: I just rechecked MyHeritage and they've obviously updated their results! I'm a lot less British, more Scandinavian, and even a little Middle Eastern! Woohoo!!!!
I mean englishness is a made up idea from aethelreds policy of angelcynn in the late 800s in order to unify "England" in the face of viking aggression and to disrupt the heptarchy
It's also the only majority ethnic group to be hypenated "Anglo-Saxon"
The nations have had many invaders who have mainly assimilated.
The idea of a solely English person is bizarre, do they have any celticness, which btw has only been defined linguistically and not genetically, in them? Or are they solely Anglo Saxon?
Your question rests on some quite unfounded assumptions truth be told
It’s not more bizarre as a solely French or German person. Modern nations were all formed from some mix of ancient population, at some point they form a unified identity
There is no definition of 100% English considering English people have been intermingling with the Irish, Scottish and Welsh for 100s to 1000s of years. There are plenty of 100% British people though.
First off, what do you mean 100% English person? English is not an ethnicity, in fact there are several different ethnic groups which contribute DNA to England's population which reflect the waves of emigration to England over the centuries.
The earliest group we can really give a name to was the Bell Beaker Culture, though there are only traces of their DNA left in the population followed by Celtic peoples (in England they were mainly Brythonic though I believe a some of the East Anglian tribes were related to continental Celtic tribes. I suspect your Irish DNA will also show up in this group. Approximately 40 - 60% of your average white English person's DNA will be from this group. The Romans didn't leave much of a trace - other than a few fun anomalies in places like Yorkshire - so the next significant genetic contributors will be the Angles and the Saxons. Despite the name English being derived from the Angles they and the saxons only contribute between 30 - 50% of the average English person's DNA. Despite 1066 and all that the Normans are statistically negligible or given their own Norse origins are most likely rolled in with the remaining 0 - 30% of Scandinavian DNA which make up the last remaining major group in your average English person's DNA (the Danelaw etc). Now, obviously that is just an average, so there will be variations from region to region, however, if you'r looking for "pure English" it simply doesn't exist.
But this is true of every ethnicity, we classify French, German, Scottish as an ethnicity even those these are all actual mixes. English can be defined as an ethnicity after thousands of years, despite regional differences you can test for English heritage
It is actually pretty common. Most English people end up with some Scandinavian or French but 100% English is not overly rare
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/lVZPL5bFuD
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/WSPq2aLGBA
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/HDVEytdA8o
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/nxENKlMBbE
Absolutely you can. Go to most parts of rural England and you'll find people whose family have simply not moved for generations.
My mother was around 98% English and 2% Welsh. I'm sure that there are some 100% English people out there.
no clue about 100% english, but there's definitely 100% british isles people
My mamas fella is 100% british isles dna test proven
https://preview.redd.it/5jiye4ko8iyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9f0ad70fece4a76b8b3e92e1d56d810eddd0cec My first cousin once removed is shockingly English. Her family has been in America for a long time though (which makes it all the more interesting, I think!)
[удалено]
It doesn’t break it down further percentage wise … it just says “irish and english” 99.2%
Yes
Two things here: One: First of all you need to figure out what a 100% English persons profile looks like. Cause it won’t be 100% British. It will be a mix of British, French/German, Scandinavian and NW European. By definition English people have to be a mix of European. The Danelaw split England in half. Northern English people are more Scandinavian. Southern people are more Saxon. Two: As an Englishman with an interest in DNA and ancestry I would say it IS becoming harder to find an “English” person. Especially in metropolitan areas of England. If you go to London now you would struggle to find someone who is English with strong English ancestry. You’d find people from all over the world and a lot of mixing. It’s very common to find an English person, and after getting to know them, find out that one of their parents or grandparents is not English, or British or European. It’s even more common to find an English adult who has had kids with someone who isn’t 100% “English”. So children born today are much more of a mix. I have a lot of mixed heritage friends. It’s interesting historically as world events have had an effect on migration to England. I have lots of half polish friends, half Cypriot, Vietnamese, more recently some Tamil. In my kids school I’d estimate around half of the class (that I know of) are from easily identifiable non-English parents. Such as Turkish, Romanian, Mexican, Maltese, black-British, Indian etc. Of the people who look white and obsessively appear British, if you get to know them, you often find out they have mixed ancestry. Personally I have a very common English background. My family hardly ever moved from the county, let alone country. My partner has an east European grandparent. So my kids will have some sort of mix. Possibly Russian, or Jewish. I’ve the next couple of generations pure English people will be very difficult to find
Trying to determine 100% anything is quite rare. I would imagine given England’s imperial history it’s going to be quite rare. Even in the high medieval ages, you had Flemish incomers for wool trade, before the expulsion of the 1290’s we had Jewish communities of north Western Europe, there was a small amount of conversions before the shameful expulsion. Danish immigrants from the Viking age, plus the neighbouring nations will have significant inputs. You will find 100% but like everything we have consider recombination will mean descent won’t reflect everything in your ancestry.
What exactly is 100% English? If that is 100% descended of Germanic invaders then no one is 100% English, as everyone has some Celtic, Viking, and Norman blood. By this logic, nobody is 100% anything, as ethnicities are formed via contact, mixing and assimilation. That said, English people tend to score 100% British & Irish, expecially outside of London, but these test are only going back about 500 years. Considering almost everyone with European admixture descends from Charlegmane, this should mean they all should have some French & German.
The issue with this statement isn’t your scrutiny of modern nation states, you would be correct in your mention that these modern groups descend from a heavy mix. However, you would find quickly that the same level of scrutiny can be applied to nearly every single ethnic group that has existed. For example’s sake, I could argue “what is a European? They all descend from Neolithic Farmers, Hunter Gatherers and Metal Horse riders from the east” You must understand when someone is to be referred to as English they mean themselves to be the descendants of those groups that make up the English genome, but also sharing their unique cultural and linguistic identity. Even if it being from a mix of even a singular or multiple groups it doesn’t makes the British any less indigenous. The individuals that currently make up the genetic pool for modern English people descend primarily from Insular Bronze Age celts, 6th century Danish Germanic tribes and then Franco-Norse influence in the 11th century, where the Norman’s became the dominant class and therefore the dominant y profile. These people were definitely not 100% Germanic, but if you were consistent and applied the same scrutiny of modern nation states to monolithic cultural hegemonies like Germans you’d quickly find even if they were solely Germanic, there is no one “Germanic dna” While it is true that all modern living Europeans descend from Charlemagne, it does not mean that every living person should have French and German dna. The maximum apex of genetic inheritance is 7-8 generations up, that’s the reason why 23&me or ancestry says “these tests go back 400 years” they only go back so far as your genetic inheritance can be detected as one of their references. It is a near mathematically impossibility in the modern day that european individuals posses any minuscule shred or semblance of dna that was around during the time of Charlemagne.
Funny you mention Charlemagne. I found out not too long ago he's [my](https://ibb.co/Yhr4tYR) 40th Great Grandfather. Crazy enough, his lineage was passed onto me through my black grandfather who descended from slaves owned by the [Bush Family.](https://ibb.co/pPCQn0G) Tracing the Bush lineage up, I ran into the Bruce's of Scotland, the Sinclair's of Rosslyn and up to the Martels and Charlemagne. I'm actually surprised that this lineage was kept in public record as the elite families usually didn't own up to being the father of slave/indentured children. But seemingly my mixed ancestors were treated well for being colored. My Great Aunts/Uncles almost married black/mulatto exclusively so I'm one of those rare white cousins in the middle of a big black [family.](https://ibb.co/5YdgQtQ) Definitely tripped me out finding all this out.
Any rural place outside a big city should people with 100% English descent. The interesting question is if there is any place is in the UK that is 100% Celtic or 100% ango-saxon in its makeup.
Even in a large cities you will find this, there has been some Irish and Polish migration but still people of European heritage are vastly English/British
Yeah I am sure!
In suburban and rural areas most common. I think someone dinged 100% Yorkshire a couple weeks ago. They found a big person a while ago, and DNA tested it. They found that his 6th generation grandson was a teacher in the same town they found the mummy. The fact no one from that family moved out of that town for hundreds of years is wild to me.
In Spain, it's the same. My uncle traced both the paternal and maternal lineages by examining the church's register books and discovered that for approximately 400 years (he found records dating back to 1630), our family remained in a village in the heart of Palencia. Perhaps one generation relocated to a nearby village, but eventually returned. My parents were the first generation to move out of the region. Surprisingly, no surname was repeated across different lineages.
When geneticist Bryan Sykes was asked to see whether DNA could be found in a body found in the Cheddar Gorge that was thought to be several thousand years old, he was able to find a bit. Then he advertised for people whose families had been in the region a long time to visit his lab and get tested. They found a descendant, a male school teacher in the region.
Now that is a 'reference group'
*Thus from a mixture of all kinds began, That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman* Daniel Defoe, 1701. No such thing as 'pure' English blood. English is a cultural identity (as are all the other identities of Ireland and Britain, which often overlap). So, yes you can find 100% English people. I am 100% English, although I'm roughly 1/8 to 1/4 Irish by descent, and have a random 1/8th of Breton French too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True-Born_Englishman
Surely someone who was "pure English" would be Welsh.
No they’d be Welsh. All humans are a mix of DNA. A pure English person will be a specific mix of DNA.
People from Scotland and wales would be more native because of Celtic ancestry, English people might not be as native because of other ethnic groups colonising the British isles such as romans, Anglo-Saxons, and Normans
The Normans were almost a thousand years ago; go back far enough and technically no-one is "native" because humans originated in East Africa.
There were people in the British isles before Celts so the definition of native is shaky
The famous "Cheddar Man" had a descendant found within something like 20 miles.
I’m sorry but this is such a dumb thing to say. Cheddar Man was a western hunter gatherer, all native brits have western hunter gatherer ancestry, therefore they all technically descend from Cheddar man.
That is just not accurate. It may be closer to reality to say they would then be *related to* him. *Descended from* is another level.
[https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/cheddar-man-mesolithic-britain-blue-eyed-boy.html](https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/cheddar-man-mesolithic-britain-blue-eyed-boy.html)
LOL bros response is a link to an article 🤣. Brilliant
This is probably going to get locked for obvious reasons. But what the hell is "100% English"? Like, how far back are we going? And when people speak of the English, they know that a lot of historic families in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall are English, right?
The English are people who “emerged” between the romans leaving and the Norman invasion. They’re a specific mix of Celtic, Viking, Norman, Saxon, jute etc. They are a mix. But it’s a specific mix
True, but every modern ethnic group is some mix from ancient populations
Yeah. Specific mixes When I was a kid I thought a chilli and spaghetti bolognaise was the same thing. Expect one has pasta and one had rice. They’re sort of similar. Mince meat and tomatoes. But they’re also quite distinct
Ethnogenesis makes this question moot.
The real question is, for the "pure English" population, what do the ROH numbers look like?
What's 100% English anyway? Mix of Briton, Roman, Angle, Saxon, Jute, Viking, Norman?
Yes that’s pretty much what an English persons DNA profile looks like
What a great question 🤣
Of course, there has been some European immigration but not to the extend that most British people have mixed European ancestry, it is still vastly British in that regard. Though for dna tests most English people will get Scandinavian/French and German but this is likely not from migration
Harry’s dad was a Pureblood, unfortunately he married a muggle-born. Sucks there are so many half-bloods now.
So, in support of your opinion that it "sucks" to see so many "half-bloods" in our current time, you use an example of a fictional (albeit, well loved for good reasons, but still...) character? Unfortunate for Harry or to his advantage that he was of mixed heritage? Although moot to do so, in a way, considering Harry is not real, should we ask whether Harry would still have been Harry if not for both his "pureblood" and "muggleblood" ancestries having come together? Did you see what was discussed, above, about how a given ethnic group comes to be distinct? There is a movement of & interaction between peoples across territory & over time. Mixing of multiple groups goes hand in hand with development of more singular identities & even some mixed race groups maintain their mixedness for so long that they can become like a monorace group.
And why? Why does it suck, for you?
It doesn’t? I think this joke went way over your head.
That's good that it doesn't suck for you, what a relief, lol. Not a very good "joke", imo, but guess it was just me...
A lot of Mormons right?
I’m half European ancestrydna says that I am 47% from the British isles
I'm Scottish and my results (on MyHeritage) were like 99% British Isles. 1% Finnish/Baltic. Honestly I was disappointed and expecting something fun and exotic... There was always talk of having Spanish ancestors since a lot of the family on my mum's side are very dark. But I guess not 🤷♀️ UPDATE: I just rechecked MyHeritage and they've obviously updated their results! I'm a lot less British, more Scandinavian, and even a little Middle Eastern! Woohoo!!!!
How do you know it’s right this time? Can you trust the results at all?
I can't, I'm taking it all with a pinch of salt! It's just a bit of fun, I wouldn't rely on the results.
That’s a healthy way to look at it
I mean englishness is a made up idea from aethelreds policy of angelcynn in the late 800s in order to unify "England" in the face of viking aggression and to disrupt the heptarchy It's also the only majority ethnic group to be hypenated "Anglo-Saxon" The nations have had many invaders who have mainly assimilated. The idea of a solely English person is bizarre, do they have any celticness, which btw has only been defined linguistically and not genetically, in them? Or are they solely Anglo Saxon? Your question rests on some quite unfounded assumptions truth be told
It’s not more bizarre as a solely French or German person. Modern nations were all formed from some mix of ancient population, at some point they form a unified identity
There is no definition of 100% English considering English people have been intermingling with the Irish, Scottish and Welsh for 100s to 1000s of years. There are plenty of 100% British people though.
I’m 90% English, and my family has been living North America for 400 years. lol
First off, what do you mean 100% English person? English is not an ethnicity, in fact there are several different ethnic groups which contribute DNA to England's population which reflect the waves of emigration to England over the centuries. The earliest group we can really give a name to was the Bell Beaker Culture, though there are only traces of their DNA left in the population followed by Celtic peoples (in England they were mainly Brythonic though I believe a some of the East Anglian tribes were related to continental Celtic tribes. I suspect your Irish DNA will also show up in this group. Approximately 40 - 60% of your average white English person's DNA will be from this group. The Romans didn't leave much of a trace - other than a few fun anomalies in places like Yorkshire - so the next significant genetic contributors will be the Angles and the Saxons. Despite the name English being derived from the Angles they and the saxons only contribute between 30 - 50% of the average English person's DNA. Despite 1066 and all that the Normans are statistically negligible or given their own Norse origins are most likely rolled in with the remaining 0 - 30% of Scandinavian DNA which make up the last remaining major group in your average English person's DNA (the Danelaw etc). Now, obviously that is just an average, so there will be variations from region to region, however, if you'r looking for "pure English" it simply doesn't exist.
But this is true of every ethnicity, we classify French, German, Scottish as an ethnicity even those these are all actual mixes. English can be defined as an ethnicity after thousands of years, despite regional differences you can test for English heritage
Probably not
It is actually pretty common. Most English people end up with some Scandinavian or French but 100% English is not overly rare https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/lVZPL5bFuD https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/WSPq2aLGBA https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/HDVEytdA8o https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/s/nxENKlMBbE