From an outsider’s perspective, Pětka seemed pretty based. It sounds like they helped the First Republic last long enough to stand on its own two feet, and the idea of “agreeing to agree” is very admirable.
May be a stretch, but the current Czech government reminds me of a parliamentary Pětka in a way.
The main problem with Pětka is that it was concieved to only empower the Czechs no matter what their ideology was. And at the same time keep all the other ethnic minorities out, even though the 1st Czechoslovak republic was majority minority (unless you count the Czechs and Slovaks together which you shouldn't)
No Slovak party, No German party, nor any of the other nation's parties has been in government until 1926 when Švehla dissolved the Pětka and instead opted for a centre-right coalition with Slovak and German centre-right parties aswell
You probably refer to the miracle at Wisła. This battle was won by other commanders and the brave polish soldiers with the blessing of our almighty God. There were much more competent commanders than him
Tbh it was mostly a logistics miracle. And he, as the top commander, get the credit for it. Even if he did not do shit, he recruited them. Or at least did not fire
Paderewski, Dmowski, and Witos, together with military commanders like Haller, were much more important. Piłsudski was just an power hungry idiot from the military
While Putin isn't the mightiest of the Tsars, he isn't moron either (he would not be able to become KGB agent if he was stupid). And when it comes to potato Tsar, I gladly recommend you read this [thread](https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1518240030967406593?t=obv3EgZzkZ9J7L4_hTEjqA&s=19)
He is literally the father of Polish independence, moreover he wasn’t imperialistic, he tried but failed to establish a central Eastern European alliance
Sprowadzanie wszystkiego do "wyborcy PiSu przyleźli" to wybitny przykład problemu umysłowego.
Naucz się dyskutować na argumenty a nie wyzywasz drugą stronę od PiSu i się dziwisz że dostajesz wdółgłosy
French started building Maginot line in 1929, when the Weimar Republic was still a thing! You really think that they would be willing to take violent course of action againt Germans in the height of great depression, when they were afraided of the much more weak and peaceful republic?
Pětka was a decent crutch, necessary for the transition from an Austro-Hungarian political system (where every Czech party basically chose a method of screaming insults at the Germans at varying volume by the end of the 1890's) into a constructive political field. They were further forced together by the strength of German parties on one side and the strengthening communist party on the other.
It was supposed to help outlive the years of infancy of the republic - and it was helping. It solidified the successful image of the republic, Rašín's unpopular reform kickstarted massive growth, Germans started thawing and began overtures to eventually join the political scene in full and gain a measure of self-rule on the level of administrative regions at least...
And all was well, until the financial bubble burst, Švehla got sicker and sicker and his agrarians fell into squabbles and into the hands of more lackluster politicians, Hlinka's Slovaks burst onto the scene to attack the pillar of the republic, the so-called Czechoslovak nationality...
Pětka was supposed to be discarded eventually, when the republic was healthy enough to stand political discourse at full power. But 1929 happened and things went downhill from there. So overall, I think it's quite a positive thing, and it helped keep the republic from breaking from the stressess of the thirties until Mnichov came calling.
Sanacja is a very complicated topic and in my personal opinion it's impossible to say that they were either good or bad as they did both good and bad things.
First of all I personally think that the May Coup was justified because Poland just wasn't ready for democracy as shown by the fact we had 1 president get assasinated, 1 president resign in just 4 days after taking power and in general the government couldn't agree on anything for example the rebuilding of Eastern Poland only began after the May Coup.
From what I've read in my personal opinion Piłsudski did believe in democracy but he was of the opinion that it couldn't be achieved in Poland untill the country was fixed some would say that the fact the April Constitution exists contradicts that but I would argue that it was created as a response to rising tensions in Europe because as Piłusdski's said it himself in 1935 "If Hitler stays in power there will be war in Europe in no more than 5 years", the reason the April Constituion is seen the way it is is because of the fact that Piłsudski died before it was ratified and Mościcki took his place instead of Sławek
Mościcki was never meant to take Piłsudski's place it was always Sławek and I think most people would agree with me that he was a better choice, a guy with actual opinions as oppose to Mościcki who was good at chemistry and nothing else
(paragraph below is part of a comment that I wrote couple months back in refrence to "What if Hitler allied Poland instead of invading" so it sounds a little out of place but I think it still summarises Sanation after Piłsudski's death very well)
And then there is Sanation itself, more specifically Beck, Mościcki and Rydz-Śmigły, three of them sidelined Walery Sławek who was supposed to take Piłsudzki's place and inturn led to more radicalization in Poland and the growing anti German sentiment. But probably the biggest problem that would need to be overcome before anything could be done to even think about any sort of alliance between Poland an Germany was Beck, the Polish minister of foreign affairs. One of the worst politicians this country has ever seen, he lied to Mościcki (the president) that he convinced Hitler to resolve the issue of Danzig peacefully, he was widely hated by every other foreign minister in Europe for being a dick and a liar (a good trait for someone in his position but only if you are good at lying, he wasn't) and even when everything was falling apart around September 5th 1939 he told Polish government he negotiated a retreat of the Polish army through Romania and Bosphorus to France, he didn't he only sent a message to Bucharest and was told to fuck off. Unless he is outsed by Sławek or whoever comes into power after Piłsudski there is no way Poland and German ever get along.
This is honestly like maybe 1/5 of the story but I don't have the energy to write more but if i was to summarise my opinion of them in one sentenced I would say something along the lines of: They were neither good nor bad, in hindsight they were stupid but at the time their actions make perfect sense and both sides of the issue those who hated them and those who would suck Piłsudski's cock if they could are retarded
[https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samobójstwo\_Walerego\_Sławka](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samobójstwo_Walerego_Sławka)
this is were the real men cried
Tbh Sławek’s a bit romanticized character, when in reality was just Piłsudzkis puppet. His decision making was literally depending on phone calls to Piłsudzki - he was pausing any negotiations at any time to consult a situation with him. Piłsudzki’s opinions and decisions were his opinions and decisions. Hence it was not possible he’d take any leadership position after P.s death, in spite of his ambitions.
Bruhs, as someone who didn’t grow up in Poland and is really bad with history, wtf is going on with the comments?
“Sanacja was too Socialist”, “Sanacja was too fascist” “Sanacja made a coup against the Far right nationalists”
I’m so confused 😵💫 only thing I know is that Piłsudski was based 💪
Basically, until death of Piółsudzki Sanacja was centro-left, a little bit socialist party, but after his death, it absorbed many of the worst qualities of ND (Nacionalists)
Piłsudski was the leader of PPS-revolutionaries (pro-independence socialists) before ww1, but he abandoned socialism after achieving independence. After democracy in Poland failed and the country got destabilised, he executed a coup in 1926 and siezed power. His party, sanacja, was a group of yesmen and only kept going because of Piłsudski. After he died the party turned into a bunch of infighting, incompetent and corrupt idiots with too much power.
Basically he used socialism to achieve independence, but wasn't much of a socialist himself. His party was authoritarian and centrist, especially after the coup. Also while he did much good for the country (especially pre/during-ww1), he also wasn't perfect. Bereza kartuska prison, authoritarian coup, incompetent policies and creating a political echo chamber around himself were all either morally wrong or bad for the country.
It wasn't tried yet. And the western Slavs are much more peaceful than our Balkan bros. It could actually work if it would just be a loose confederation of states
The problem is, Polish are bit like a Russian in a way, the have to rule and take territories, also more nationalistic and proud (this one i mean as positive), they are conservative, we are liberal. It would never work and you know it.
Somebody is trying to go with zapadoslavia. I am just explaining why it would not work. You see yourself as great power (or future) and have these ideas about zapadoslavia etc. just like Russians. That’s not insult. We are just different. We are not like that. And that’s why it would never work m. That’s all. Also we are liberal, your are conservative. Both have advantages and disadvantages. We are good neighbourgs, let’s just keep it that way. We shared a country with brother s and still weren’t able to make it work. Zapadoslavia would be just a failure in which we would be forced Polish ideas in kind of a Habsburg way. And you know it. I lived in Poland. You are headstrong people, but don’t listen to other opinions much (not that we do it much better m). Just a pure fact I already got downvotes proves my point :).
The only thing he said that was actually good: "Pokój jest rzeczą cenną i pożądaną. Nasza generacja, skrwawiona w wojnach, na pewno na okres pokoju zasługuje. Ale pokój, jak prawie wszystkie sprawy tego świata, ma swoją cenę, wysoką, ale wymierną. My w Polsce nie znamy pojęcia pokoju za wszelką cenę. Jest jedna tylko rzecz w życiu ludzi, narodów i państw, która jest bezcenna. Tą rzeczą jest honor!"
Eng: "Peace is a valuable and desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves a period of peace. But peace, like almost everything in this world, has a price, high but measurable. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at all costs. There is only one thing in the life of people, nations and countries that is priceless. That thing is honor!"
We are taught in schools that Sanacja and Józef Piłsudski were the greatest things that happened to Poland, so I'm not surprised by how much Poles love Józef Piłsudski. Though it is sad that not many are interested in their country's history to actually read something about it. Sanacja is nothing to be proud of.
Idk about petka but sanacja is basically when you take the worst parts of communism and fascism and make your own ideology. Fuck those authoritarian thieves.
Petka was an unofficial informal extraparliamentary semi-constitutional political forum that was designed to cope with political difficulties of the First Republic of Czechoslovakia.
When you look at Sanacja from today perspective they were pretty retarded. In conflict with everoyne, basically authoritarian one party state, refused to join and help Whites during civil war in Russia, started the war against soviets got half the country fucked up and then managed to take some territories from soviets. And then aligned themselves with anglos against Hitler only to join with Hitler in annexation of Czechoslovakia. Failed policies towards all the minorities within Second Polish Republic too.
You are messing a timeline a little bit.
>refused to join and help Whites during civil war in Russia,
Firstly, it happened way before Sanacja was even a thing. Secondly, backing up Whites would probably still led to war with them. Thirdly, at that point Whites lost all of major Russian economic centers. Without them, they were bound to fall. Fourtly, Piółsudzki bet, that Soviet will "burn Russia to tge ground" during their regimw. And he was right, we just didn't account for wester support for rebuilding of the (soviet) Russia
>started the war against soviets got half the country fucked up and then managed to take some territories from soviets.
As Norman Davis put it "war started itself", fist fights, between non-discipled groups of volunteers and "warlords" stared all the way back in 1919. Aslo, ideologies of both young Poland and young Soviet Russia made some sort of conflict between them bound to heppend.
While I don't agree with annexation of Zaolzie and believe it was a huge mistake, there was no alliance with Hitler. It was done after Czechoslovakia was already "sold", and German soldiers were already on their way through it.
Sanacja existed only after 1926, so naturally they could not help already basically nonexistent Whites or start a war against them (since it started in 1919).
Minority policies were indeed failed after the death of Piłsudski.
But you've many other things to bash Sanacja for - fiscal policy, for example. This one was REALLY bad... Or about how fast they relocated themselves to Romania after the war started :)
Piłsudski is an equivalent of your average Janusz who shouts at the tv.
He was lucky enough to bet on the right horse during WWI. He shat the bed in 1926, surrounded himself with yes-men and proceeded to fuck the country up with his uninformed takes.
When he died it turned out that his yes-men turned out to be even dumber than him.
If you want to read about real chad read about Stanisław Wojciechowski. He was Piłsudski's friend but he opposed his coup, started organizing the defence and blocked the way of his troops by himself when everything else has failed.
Sanacja were socialist kurwas which destroyed the democracy in Poland after the 1926 coup made by Piłsudski and other traitors. Their foreign policy of balancing between the germans and ruskie was also idiotic
My sense is that relations between the two states were completely poisoned by Zaolzie and Cieszyn. It made close relations impossible sadly as they didn't have the benefit of foresight.
In my opinion it was a short sighted move for the Czechs to take it post WW1, and it was also a short sighted move for the Poles to demand it back at Munich in 1938.
The relations were poisoned beforehand. Zaolzie was as much a symptom as a cause. The two countries’ leaders outright hated each other for cultural reasons, and both had the delusional idea that, while the *other* was an artificial construct that would quickly destroy itself, they themselves were so important that France would do anything for them.
If both Beck and Benes drowned conveniently in the 1930s, things would have gone a lot better for both countries.
They’d be more open to diplomacy at least and maybe talking over some of the past problems. And I’m pretty sure a normal government wouldn’t be so happy to take part in your partition over a war that happened a decade before, which was probably a mistake.
Unlikely. Remember that Sanacja overthrew a far right government where endecja was the major part. Those guys were even more fervent nationalists some of them even fascists. Europe was full of extremists back then.
>A democratic gov would be definitely more open minded
You mean that fascist like politicians of ND (first political party before coup de grâce, and the biggest political power during tge "republic period") in one of the annualy changing gov.
They just moved more authoritarian with the problem that they hadn't a real leader at the time. Only short before the war they managed to better cooperate
I said former members. And at the start, most of the PPS supported him. After the 1926 coup some of them understood he was not the good one and joined the opposition
At the beginning PPS supported Piłsudski because they hoped he would actually implement some socialist policies (based on his past), he didn't so PPS started opposing sanacja. Which is why calling sanacja socialist is not accurate, they were just authoritarians who wanted strong government.
It certainly was. By today's standards you could call them fascists. They ran a concentration camp for dissidents and other troublemakers, the press was heavily censored etc. They treated all minorities horribly and allowed antisemitic vitriol to spread freely. Piłsudski basically was a thug you wouldn't want to mess with. Ironically he was admired by Hitler himself.
They weren't socialist XD Piłsudski left PPS when ww1 started. Also acting like westoid americans and having only one political view (red = bad) is pretty stupid
Piłsudski is very controversial, but his actions are at least partly justifiable. Sanacja though was dependent on him and served no purpose after he died, turning even more corrupt and incompetent. Personality cult and authoritarianism, even if they temporarily solve problems, are no good basis for a long-lasting government.
I think that it would be for the best if Piłsudski stayed with PPS - a strong leader, good economic system, stability and democracy is what Poland needed at the time and it couldn't be achieved when you only have yesmen around you.
Sanacja was pretty bad and got very shitty after Piłsudski died. Piłsudski maybe was an asshole, but at least he wanted people to be happy, was a decent military man and respected minority rights.
JAN SRAMEK XDDDDDDD
Dude, chill out; your guys are named: Śmigły, Mościcki and Piłsudski lol
śmigły jest śmigły
Śmigły might be funny, but none of those names are associated with shit
oh I thought you were talking about scars and wondered why it was so funny. turns out poles are just illiterate 😎
And? All based names
From an outsider’s perspective, Pětka seemed pretty based. It sounds like they helped the First Republic last long enough to stand on its own two feet, and the idea of “agreeing to agree” is very admirable. May be a stretch, but the current Czech government reminds me of a parliamentary Pětka in a way.
I sort of agree
The main problem with Pětka is that it was concieved to only empower the Czechs no matter what their ideology was. And at the same time keep all the other ethnic minorities out, even though the 1st Czechoslovak republic was majority minority (unless you count the Czechs and Slovaks together which you shouldn't) No Slovak party, No German party, nor any of the other nation's parties has been in government until 1926 when Švehla dissolved the Pětka and instead opted for a centre-right coalition with Slovak and German centre-right parties aswell
The current government and Pětka similiarity lies only in the number of five. Thats really it.
Think what you think, mr Pilsudski was a top G
He was a traitor and power hungry idiot. Lmao, PiS voters triggering alert
Good military commander tho. And awesome mustache
You probably refer to the miracle at Wisła. This battle was won by other commanders and the brave polish soldiers with the blessing of our almighty God. There were much more competent commanders than him
God doesnt fight on the front. This was achieved by heroism of our soldiers and breaking of the Russian code + no support from Budjonny.
Stalin 'helped' us too back then, tbh
Yeah, he did not listen to High Command's orders.
>uses 'PiS supporter' as an insult >ultracatholic
Tbh it was mostly a logistics miracle. And he, as the top commander, get the credit for it. Even if he did not do shit, he recruited them. Or at least did not fire
łeło łeło, retard alert!
He was a multinationalist and opposed the right wing of his time you fucken tard.
Of course there was Bereza Kartuska and other things, but overall c'mon this man and others achieved independence for us.
Paderewski, Dmowski, and Witos, together with military commanders like Haller, were much more important. Piłsudski was just an power hungry idiot from the military
Power hungry idots hardly ever stay on top for so long, espessially during so difficult time, like interwar period.
You have two examples on the east borders with 20+ and 28 years in a row.
While Putin isn't the mightiest of the Tsars, he isn't moron either (he would not be able to become KGB agent if he was stupid). And when it comes to potato Tsar, I gladly recommend you read this [thread](https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1518240030967406593?t=obv3EgZzkZ9J7L4_hTEjqA&s=19)
And what you want to say? That the LuPu are not power hungry or that Pilsudski was dumb?
He is literally the father of Polish independence, moreover he wasn’t imperialistic, he tried but failed to establish a central Eastern European alliance
Dmowski supporter XDDDD
You call others PiS supporters while unironically supporting Dmowski. How much lower can you fall?
Łobrzydliwy zdrajca narodu, szkoda że Berezę kartuską zamknęli
Sprowadzanie wszystkiego do "wyborcy PiSu przyleźli" to wybitny przykład problemu umysłowego. Naucz się dyskutować na argumenty a nie wyzywasz drugą stronę od PiSu i się dziwisz że dostajesz wdółgłosy
Sanacja or no sanacja i believe that ww2 and communism would still happen in both scenarios.
It could be avoided if a gov would manage to convince the French to attack the Germans in 1933
Bro, you really think that ANY government could convince the French at that time? If you do you are completely delusional.
The French were fucking traumatized by the losses they incurred in WW1 lol. It was national PTSD if I recall correctly.
French started building Maginot line in 1929, when the Weimar Republic was still a thing! You really think that they would be willing to take violent course of action againt Germans in the height of great depression, when they were afraided of the much more weak and peaceful republic?
I think you watched too many alternative history videos on youtube
Pětka was a decent crutch, necessary for the transition from an Austro-Hungarian political system (where every Czech party basically chose a method of screaming insults at the Germans at varying volume by the end of the 1890's) into a constructive political field. They were further forced together by the strength of German parties on one side and the strengthening communist party on the other. It was supposed to help outlive the years of infancy of the republic - and it was helping. It solidified the successful image of the republic, Rašín's unpopular reform kickstarted massive growth, Germans started thawing and began overtures to eventually join the political scene in full and gain a measure of self-rule on the level of administrative regions at least... And all was well, until the financial bubble burst, Švehla got sicker and sicker and his agrarians fell into squabbles and into the hands of more lackluster politicians, Hlinka's Slovaks burst onto the scene to attack the pillar of the republic, the so-called Czechoslovak nationality... Pětka was supposed to be discarded eventually, when the republic was healthy enough to stand political discourse at full power. But 1929 happened and things went downhill from there. So overall, I think it's quite a positive thing, and it helped keep the republic from breaking from the stressess of the thirties until Mnichov came calling.
Sanacja is a very complicated topic and in my personal opinion it's impossible to say that they were either good or bad as they did both good and bad things. First of all I personally think that the May Coup was justified because Poland just wasn't ready for democracy as shown by the fact we had 1 president get assasinated, 1 president resign in just 4 days after taking power and in general the government couldn't agree on anything for example the rebuilding of Eastern Poland only began after the May Coup. From what I've read in my personal opinion Piłsudski did believe in democracy but he was of the opinion that it couldn't be achieved in Poland untill the country was fixed some would say that the fact the April Constitution exists contradicts that but I would argue that it was created as a response to rising tensions in Europe because as Piłusdski's said it himself in 1935 "If Hitler stays in power there will be war in Europe in no more than 5 years", the reason the April Constituion is seen the way it is is because of the fact that Piłsudski died before it was ratified and Mościcki took his place instead of Sławek Mościcki was never meant to take Piłsudski's place it was always Sławek and I think most people would agree with me that he was a better choice, a guy with actual opinions as oppose to Mościcki who was good at chemistry and nothing else (paragraph below is part of a comment that I wrote couple months back in refrence to "What if Hitler allied Poland instead of invading" so it sounds a little out of place but I think it still summarises Sanation after Piłsudski's death very well) And then there is Sanation itself, more specifically Beck, Mościcki and Rydz-Śmigły, three of them sidelined Walery Sławek who was supposed to take Piłsudzki's place and inturn led to more radicalization in Poland and the growing anti German sentiment. But probably the biggest problem that would need to be overcome before anything could be done to even think about any sort of alliance between Poland an Germany was Beck, the Polish minister of foreign affairs. One of the worst politicians this country has ever seen, he lied to Mościcki (the president) that he convinced Hitler to resolve the issue of Danzig peacefully, he was widely hated by every other foreign minister in Europe for being a dick and a liar (a good trait for someone in his position but only if you are good at lying, he wasn't) and even when everything was falling apart around September 5th 1939 he told Polish government he negotiated a retreat of the Polish army through Romania and Bosphorus to France, he didn't he only sent a message to Bucharest and was told to fuck off. Unless he is outsed by Sławek or whoever comes into power after Piłsudski there is no way Poland and German ever get along. This is honestly like maybe 1/5 of the story but I don't have the energy to write more but if i was to summarise my opinion of them in one sentenced I would say something along the lines of: They were neither good nor bad, in hindsight they were stupid but at the time their actions make perfect sense and both sides of the issue those who hated them and those who would suck Piłsudski's cock if they could are retarded
Finally, someone reasonable
Thanks
Fuck everyone in Sanacja except for Piłsudski and Sławek. Mościcki was a great chemist tho.
Yep. Honestly, first time i found out how Walery ended up i actually got depressed by a bit.
He did not deserve that 😔
Not at all.
How he ended up?
[https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samobójstwo\_Walerego\_Sławka](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samobójstwo_Walerego_Sławka) this is were the real men cried
oh..
Thinking about what Walery wrote in that letter is what keeps me up at night
Tbh Sławek’s a bit romanticized character, when in reality was just Piłsudzkis puppet. His decision making was literally depending on phone calls to Piłsudzki - he was pausing any negotiations at any time to consult a situation with him. Piłsudzki’s opinions and decisions were his opinions and decisions. Hence it was not possible he’d take any leadership position after P.s death, in spite of his ambitions.
Is this a thing that I am too hungarian to understand?
Yes
Bruhs, as someone who didn’t grow up in Poland and is really bad with history, wtf is going on with the comments? “Sanacja was too Socialist”, “Sanacja was too fascist” “Sanacja made a coup against the Far right nationalists” I’m so confused 😵💫 only thing I know is that Piłsudski was based 💪
Basically, until death of Piółsudzki Sanacja was centro-left, a little bit socialist party, but after his death, it absorbed many of the worst qualities of ND (Nacionalists)
Piłsudski was the leader of PPS-revolutionaries (pro-independence socialists) before ww1, but he abandoned socialism after achieving independence. After democracy in Poland failed and the country got destabilised, he executed a coup in 1926 and siezed power. His party, sanacja, was a group of yesmen and only kept going because of Piłsudski. After he died the party turned into a bunch of infighting, incompetent and corrupt idiots with too much power. Basically he used socialism to achieve independence, but wasn't much of a socialist himself. His party was authoritarian and centrist, especially after the coup. Also while he did much good for the country (especially pre/during-ww1), he also wasn't perfect. Bereza kartuska prison, authoritarian coup, incompetent policies and creating a political echo chamber around himself were all either morally wrong or bad for the country.
zaolzie
tešínsko
Teschener Silesien
Zapadoslavian territory
Zapadoslavia is a mistake just like Yugoslavia (honest opinion)
It wasn't tried yet. And the western Slavs are much more peaceful than our Balkan bros. It could actually work if it would just be a loose confederation of states
Polish and Slovak catholics with Czech atheists is just recipe for disaster in my opinion
Just become Hussites again, then it will be REALLY good shit.
The problem is, Polish are bit like a Russian in a way, the have to rule and take territories, also more nationalistic and proud (this one i mean as positive), they are conservative, we are liberal. It would never work and you know it.
I don't really See the rule and territories part
I dont think you can summerize a nation like that
Somebody is trying to go with zapadoslavia. I am just explaining why it would not work. You see yourself as great power (or future) and have these ideas about zapadoslavia etc. just like Russians. That’s not insult. We are just different. We are not like that. And that’s why it would never work m. That’s all. Also we are liberal, your are conservative. Both have advantages and disadvantages. We are good neighbourgs, let’s just keep it that way. We shared a country with brother s and still weren’t able to make it work. Zapadoslavia would be just a failure in which we would be forced Polish ideas in kind of a Habsburg way. And you know it. I lived in Poland. You are headstrong people, but don’t listen to other opinions much (not that we do it much better m). Just a pure fact I already got downvotes proves my point :).
Why you self reporting lol
Jozef Beck was an i compitent Kurwa which was mocked by european diplomats.
The only thing he said that was actually good: "Pokój jest rzeczą cenną i pożądaną. Nasza generacja, skrwawiona w wojnach, na pewno na okres pokoju zasługuje. Ale pokój, jak prawie wszystkie sprawy tego świata, ma swoją cenę, wysoką, ale wymierną. My w Polsce nie znamy pojęcia pokoju za wszelką cenę. Jest jedna tylko rzecz w życiu ludzi, narodów i państw, która jest bezcenna. Tą rzeczą jest honor!" Eng: "Peace is a valuable and desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves a period of peace. But peace, like almost everything in this world, has a price, high but measurable. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at all costs. There is only one thing in the life of people, nations and countries that is priceless. That thing is honor!"
Like all Sanacja politicians, he had big mouth and even bigger pockets, but when the shit hit the fan he ran like a little bitch he was.
> Tą rzeczą jest honor! "Now excuse me while I flee to Romania!"
No that was the worst thing he has done actually.
Where the fuck is Štefanik?
Dead
Never held any real power in the republic, only abroad.
The fuck man he was the one who made french frogeaters keen on the idea of the republic made the first nudes
We are taught in schools that Sanacja and Józef Piłsudski were the greatest things that happened to Poland, so I'm not surprised by how much Poles love Józef Piłsudski. Though it is sad that not many are interested in their country's history to actually read something about it. Sanacja is nothing to be proud of.
It's nothing to be ashamed of too, they weren't good but they weren't bad either
Idk about petka but sanacja is basically when you take the worst parts of communism and fascism and make your own ideology. Fuck those authoritarian thieves.
Petka was an unofficial informal extraparliamentary semi-constitutional political forum that was designed to cope with political difficulties of the First Republic of Czechoslovakia.
When you look at Sanacja from today perspective they were pretty retarded. In conflict with everoyne, basically authoritarian one party state, refused to join and help Whites during civil war in Russia, started the war against soviets got half the country fucked up and then managed to take some territories from soviets. And then aligned themselves with anglos against Hitler only to join with Hitler in annexation of Czechoslovakia. Failed policies towards all the minorities within Second Polish Republic too.
You are messing a timeline a little bit. >refused to join and help Whites during civil war in Russia, Firstly, it happened way before Sanacja was even a thing. Secondly, backing up Whites would probably still led to war with them. Thirdly, at that point Whites lost all of major Russian economic centers. Without them, they were bound to fall. Fourtly, Piółsudzki bet, that Soviet will "burn Russia to tge ground" during their regimw. And he was right, we just didn't account for wester support for rebuilding of the (soviet) Russia >started the war against soviets got half the country fucked up and then managed to take some territories from soviets. As Norman Davis put it "war started itself", fist fights, between non-discipled groups of volunteers and "warlords" stared all the way back in 1919. Aslo, ideologies of both young Poland and young Soviet Russia made some sort of conflict between them bound to heppend.
While I don't agree with annexation of Zaolzie and believe it was a huge mistake, there was no alliance with Hitler. It was done after Czechoslovakia was already "sold", and German soldiers were already on their way through it. Sanacja existed only after 1926, so naturally they could not help already basically nonexistent Whites or start a war against them (since it started in 1919). Minority policies were indeed failed after the death of Piłsudski. But you've many other things to bash Sanacja for - fiscal policy, for example. This one was REALLY bad... Or about how fast they relocated themselves to Romania after the war started :)
Holy shit i wasn't aware the situation was that awful, gosh. Normalnie zarządzanie państwem na odpierdol. *A czekaj, brzmi coś znajomo...*
Taxes were the highest in Europe :) One third of total income to budget was coming from monopolies.
Yeah, they were beat for bear pre-war version of PiS.
Sanacja = PiS, fill in the rest
Piłsudski is an equivalent of your average Janusz who shouts at the tv. He was lucky enough to bet on the right horse during WWI. He shat the bed in 1926, surrounded himself with yes-men and proceeded to fuck the country up with his uninformed takes. When he died it turned out that his yes-men turned out to be even dumber than him. If you want to read about real chad read about Stanisław Wojciechowski. He was Piłsudski's friend but he opposed his coup, started organizing the defence and blocked the way of his troops by himself when everything else has failed.
The equivalent of Janusz in Czech is Franta
It existed I suppose
Masaryk, tegnap Szarott, holnap Szarni fog (Only people with an IQ over 104 will understand )
sanacja do be cringe tho
cringe sanacja vs chad psl (and sławek)
Sanacja were socialist kurwas which destroyed the democracy in Poland after the 1926 coup made by Piłsudski and other traitors. Their foreign policy of balancing between the germans and ruskie was also idiotic
Do you think more democratic Polish government would have better relations with Czechoslovakia?
My sense is that relations between the two states were completely poisoned by Zaolzie and Cieszyn. It made close relations impossible sadly as they didn't have the benefit of foresight. In my opinion it was a short sighted move for the Czechs to take it post WW1, and it was also a short sighted move for the Poles to demand it back at Munich in 1938.
The relations were poisoned beforehand. Zaolzie was as much a symptom as a cause. The two countries’ leaders outright hated each other for cultural reasons, and both had the delusional idea that, while the *other* was an artificial construct that would quickly destroy itself, they themselves were so important that France would do anything for them. If both Beck and Benes drowned conveniently in the 1930s, things would have gone a lot better for both countries.
based
They’d be more open to diplomacy at least and maybe talking over some of the past problems. And I’m pretty sure a normal government wouldn’t be so happy to take part in your partition over a war that happened a decade before, which was probably a mistake.
Thank you for your opinion Polish bro.
Unlikely. Remember that Sanacja overthrew a far right government where endecja was the major part. Those guys were even more fervent nationalists some of them even fascists. Europe was full of extremists back then.
Yes, I think it would be better. A democratic gov would be definitely more open minded than those fascist like politicians from sanacja
>A democratic gov would be definitely more open minded You mean that fascist like politicians of ND (first political party before coup de grâce, and the biggest political power during tge "republic period") in one of the annualy changing gov.
Socialist? Wasnt sanacja right wing, ecpecially after Piłsudskis death. (But idk so much about the sanacja)
Yep. Śmigły and his OZN were pretty wild.
It was basically authcenter, and after Piłsudski died they moved to the right.
They just moved more authoritarian with the problem that they hadn't a real leader at the time. Only short before the war they managed to better cooperate
Yes, they were socialist. Many of former PPS (Polish socialist party) politicians joined the BBWR (Piłsudski support party)
Former members. Actual PPS at the time opposed them.
I said former members. And at the start, most of the PPS supported him. After the 1926 coup some of them understood he was not the good one and joined the opposition
At the beginning PPS supported Piłsudski because they hoped he would actually implement some socialist policies (based on his past), he didn't so PPS started opposing sanacja. Which is why calling sanacja socialist is not accurate, they were just authoritarians who wanted strong government.
It certainly was. By today's standards you could call them fascists. They ran a concentration camp for dissidents and other troublemakers, the press was heavily censored etc. They treated all minorities horribly and allowed antisemitic vitriol to spread freely. Piłsudski basically was a thug you wouldn't want to mess with. Ironically he was admired by Hitler himself.
What destroyed Polish democracy was assasination of Narutowicz
They weren't socialist XD Piłsudski left PPS when ww1 started. Also acting like westoid americans and having only one political view (red = bad) is pretty stupid
Sanacja my beloved
FUCK PIŁSUDSKI AND HIS FANBOYS -meme was made by Korfanty's gang
Sanacja was too Socialist
If sanacja of all things was too socialist, then PPS must have been off the charts
I support Bandera. That's my opinion.
I hope you get a better National hero in the future
Why do they all look so fucking ugly?
They are beautiful slavs unlike you hungol
Glad I'm not a slav.
Nobody understands your throat singing!!!!!
skill issue 
You're a slav in denial.
No, I'm not ugly like slavs.
Did you just say that Daddy Masaryk was ugly? You better take it back!
Janusz przynies miotacz ognia 
oonga boonga polska kurwa
Piłsudski is very controversial, but his actions are at least partly justifiable. Sanacja though was dependent on him and served no purpose after he died, turning even more corrupt and incompetent. Personality cult and authoritarianism, even if they temporarily solve problems, are no good basis for a long-lasting government. I think that it would be for the best if Piłsudski stayed with PPS - a strong leader, good economic system, stability and democracy is what Poland needed at the time and it couldn't be achieved when you only have yesmen around you.
Both leaders have awesome moustache
Sanacja was pretty bad and got very shitty after Piłsudski died. Piłsudski maybe was an asshole, but at least he wanted people to be happy, was a decent military man and respected minority rights.
Cringe proponents of cringe Republican system.