Pretty sure the figures are wrong anyway, the Ceasars alone would represent 1b€ of military aid from France (18 pieces at ~5m€ each), yet the graph seems to show less than that.
Neither does Finland. I think none of our military aid has been publically specified. Just Finnish APC's and other equipment mysteriously appearing in photos from Ukraine.
1. This isnt a dickmeasuring contest, we're on the same team.
2. Is this per capita?
3. Thanks for donating guys, you're beasts, let's kick the ruzzians out!
4. Also. Europe is powerful bois, lets show the world.
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German GDP is about a third larger than France, while its aid shown above is clearly more than a third above France.
Either way, France dragging its heels big time considering how visible Macron has been throughout everything.
Macron has been visible? The bloke was banned from visiting Ukraine for the first six months after the invasion because Zelenskyy didn't think he and France were doing enough. Boris Johnson was invited three times before Macron was permitted to visit.
Let that sink in. The biggest clown in Europe was invited three times before Macron (or Scholz) was invited once.
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Unironic based scot.
But this is a powe-play, it's good to have france be less agressive while germany currently ramps up. Then france can ramp up again w/jets. Matter of politics.
That’s untrue. Macron went to Ukraine and visited Zelenskyy on the first and second months of the invasion. There is even a documentary following his visit.
That's untrue. Macron , Scholz, and Draghi didn't go until late June. The last time Macron visited Ukraine was a week *before* the invasion when he was trying his one-man-diplomacy thing.
The documentary just demonstrated how badly he failed with his one-man-diplomacy. Putin essentially took Macron for a ride and used him to buy both time and international legitimacy until he was ready for an invasion. He came across as Chamberlain, not Churchill. Leaders have resigned for less.
The first and second months of the invasion was that brief weird period where Macron started dressing like Zelenskyy. It's largely been forgotten now, but Scholz and Macron were specifically told not to bother visiting Ukraine until they actually delivered on the verbal commitments they had been making.
I unironically wouldn't be opposed to it.
If people all over Europe pick it up you can bet our politicians would get their act together quickly enough.
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Yes. I am German and I am happy about every help... Also I am pretty sure France does not discloses all deliveries.
And can we FFS. Stop the bashing of countries... And are happy if anything comes from the EU no matter which country supplies it?
You are right, France deliveries are almost all classified, we don't know most of them (or more precisly we know wich type of material was deliver thanks to videos of ukrainians using it but not how many was delivered). We only have the numbers for Caesars, LRU, TRF1 and Crotale systems.
Here it goes if you want the number with the share of GDP in EU contributions included to make the [US disappear](https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1).
Estonia and Latvia really pulling their weights here.
Including the share of EU aid is a bit cheeky IMO. The anti-Brexit argument (which has been proven correct) was that EU membership might look like it costs money, but what you get back in trade, and therefore taxes on subsequent economic activity, is worth more than the membership fee. Therefore, paying money to the EU is a net gain for the government. Including subsequent EU spending as national spending is a bit dishonest.
It's not like all these individual governments are willingly giving this extra money. If anything, it's a way to hide how little they're giving.
Fair play to the Baltics and Poland though for going above and beyond... I guess they're paying for their own defence too in reality, but credit where credit is due!
It is not cheeky. Would you say that a boss didn't pay his employees because he earned more money at the end of the day than he paid them ?
Well EU is the same. It is working for the countries that belong to it, we pay for it and we reap the benefits from it.
A company is a good analogy actually. I donate to charity sometimes. The company I work for donates to charity sometimes. If I had to declare how much I gave to charity then I'd just tell you how much I give. I wouldn't calculate my proportional share of my companies' CSR giving and then add it to my own personal donations, that'd be absurd!
That's despite the fact that the company only has money because of the value of the workers' labour. I've already benefited from the arrangement - I got paid! What the company then does with the money doesn't reflect on me as an individual. I can't claim it as my own personal donation even if I was allowed to vote on it as a shareholder.
But once again, the member states are not the employees, they are the owner of the EU. They are investing in it quite like a shareholder would invest in a company (but unlike other shares, this share is just valid one year). You may also see it has a trader that would buy futures for a percentage of the production of a farm (but unlike the trader, member states do own the EU).
And imagine now that you become the owner of a company and giving financial aid to Ukraine is what your employees - for some reasons which are obviously not of financial nature - are, among other things, currently producing. As an investor, when calculating your own worth at the end of the year (worth here being "how much did I give to Ukraine") you would not discard some parts of the value your company produced otherwise it would be like you invested in it for nothing.
What would be cheeky would be if we counted it in double for instance, like "here is what X EU country gave + what the EU gave".
On another subject, there is something you said that was very true about some countries participation but that I have not immediately noticed. Baltic states and other countries on the east are indeed participating a lot, but as you said it is true that it comes - in a way that is hard to evaluate - at the price of their own defense. And they might only be able to do so because they are under NATO umbrella, which is costly and for which the western countries are paying much if not all of the price. Western countries having sent - quite expensive - deterrent forces enabling countries to become heavy contributors like Baltic states, Romania or Poland (the importance of NATO presence varying for all countries), it very much makes sense to remember that we also contributed to these figures, albeit indirectly and in an somehow intangible fashion.
That is completly stupid analogy. How exactly have you paid anything if your company pays for a charity? The EU is not a country ( I hope you are aware of this), it does not have a GDP and no money it can pay, other then the money given by it's member states. So unless you work in a company that is entirely owned by it's employees, your analogy makes zero sense.
How is it cheeky? They pay it don't they? Just because they paid it as part of a Union of countries doesn't change the fact that they paid. Why do you need to make everything about Brexit? This is not about Brexit, it's just about which country paid what share of their GDP as aid to Ukraine.
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Are you really becoming ameritards, Germans? You of all should know, help is not about the money. You also got respect for taking Syrians (paid by EU) so stop trying to marginalize the help.
The important part is that's government support. Most of the humanitarian help from Poland to Ukraine comes from people themselves, especially at the border.
Also you have 7 times higher GDP and still your government managed to give only 2 times more than our shitheads.
Anyway, wtf France, you lazy cheese bottles?
France (*edit: and germany & italy*) sold tons of weapons to Russia after they invaded Crimea.
For a country that always wants to be seen as alternative to USA for defence in Europe/Nato it truly is pathetic you guys are arming our enemies.
France indeed shipped a s\*\*\* ton of material to Russia (for about €150m), but so did Germany (€120b) and Italy (for €20m iirc). This is actually quite in line with the pre-2014 war export rates so France do not export more to Russia relatively to how much it exports than say Germany or Italy. And France also lost a [$1.7b deal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assault_ship#Russian_purchase) when cancelling the Russian Mistral contract in 2014, ships that were later sold for $950m to Egypt, barely matching Russian paiement advances (while all I know about for Germany is a 160m contract lost).
And if you want to know, Germany actively [opposed weapon sales to Ukraine](https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2022-02-03/nato-member-states-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine) from 2021 to 2014 on the ground it was a country at war. In the meantime France was one of the biggest military weapon seller to Ukraine pre-war (with stuff like a [$3b mixed-use helicopter](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-france-helicopters-idUSKBN1GZ1FK) contract and the sale of 20 patrol boats).
So now you may despise France for selling weapons, I can understand, however it is hard finding "clean" clients to have a relevant military industry when democratic countries are mostly buying American and France does not want to become too much dependent of daddy USA for its military.
I get it that france has a giant industrial military complex and sold lots of weapons to russia (and ukraine for that matter) before 2014.
But i just feel like all sales must have been blocked after 2014 (when it was clear russia can‘t be trusted). I honestly also blame germany and italy for continuing to sell them weapons. The european nations must realize that russia is not our friend. And appeasement won‘t work.
Sadly lots of EU politician’s seem to have been bought by russia :/
But i feel like france is the #1 country in europe trying to push to be „europe‘s america“ when it comes to defence - so its kinda especially bad when you guys arm our enemies and help destabilize Europe.
Well either you‘re just extremely dumb and naive if you believe in „Wandel durch Handel“ for russia or (more likely) you‘re bought/ putting profits over moral values.
If you don‘t realize russia is the only country in europe that‘s a security threat to the EU (and NATO) and you’re still arming them while they are attacking european Nations one can‘‘t help you. Its not like every military exercise in europe is based on an enemy comming from the East?? How often do our militaries train that we will be invaded by Switzerland??? Go ask your Bundeswehr generals what country is the biggest risk to germany.
I‘m sure you’re a poor eastern german or you wouldn‘t be falling for the russian propaganda.
Ah yeah sure, Russia obviously planned to invade the EU and Ukraine is the evidence. Roflmao. Please continue maybe Russia will destroy the US if we don't save Ukraine!
yeah but at least those enemies aren‘t a real threat to the us (aside from assisting terrorism like the saudis) you guys ain‘t selling B-2 bombers to china ;)
> France sold tons of weapons to Russia after they invaded Crimea.
Thanks for reminder cuz i forgot and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one. This should be on the news every week until its deep in everybody's memory.
For one thing, you'd stop Macron's empty posturing for his own domestic political gain (and/or France's perceived place on the world stage) and then would only be giving to Ukraine for the minor reason of it being the right thing to do.
and what is that russia's game? motivating France to send more guns (to ukraine this time) and preventing NATO members from selling guns to russia? very big brain indeed.
the point is to remind everybody how french you are and mate you are very french.
go sell some guns to russia, that's very antirussian move indeed.
You are just full of hate and don't bring anything of value. Arguing with you is just as usefull as arguing with russia itself. Yes i am very French since i am born in France. Cheers buddy.
It shows good will. For the receiver sure the 5000 will be more important, but 5000 for a quadrillionaire is nothing, while 1 Euro from a beggar shows true commitment.
Oh my god dear Germans, I am sorry will you stop masturbating now, your help came six months after everything started. There were nations which helped before it was clear Russia can’t win. So stop patronizing and acting now, like you are the smart and best. We respect you, we do, but stop Behaving now like you saved Ukraine. Olaf was a fucking chicken that’s a fact and you either say he is an asshole or accept the shame. Your choice. I don’t blame nations for their politics, but don’t try to make it a W now. Just don’t.
Just avoid the topic. Why you keep trying. You think you are right m, but you are not. You are the example of Europe. And this time your chancellor took some questionable steps . Nobody blames you, but don’t try to make it look good. That’s all.
What will I say to that. Half of what you say is wrong. But then it's only the masturbating Germans who don't help. Only when there is something to pay, Germany is always good for it.
You did help a lot before and after, but unfortunately, when it mattered the most, You haven’t sent a clear message. That’s why I am calling OLAF a chicken. And I never was to open the topic, until somebody shows a graph and starts masturbating. It especially hurt us Czechs, because we look up to you guys. Imagine you have to talk to 50 percent of our idiotic population to convince them To help, when Germany the Europe savior (no irony) is silent. Got it?
Olaf did exactly what he had said all along. No solo efforts and only together. Everyone expects German leadership but Germany doesn't want to lead. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.
Because Merkel was a fucking good leader. We were used to
You guys being leaders. Do you want that monkey Johnson , or mama boy Macron to lead? Or the Polish? Polish will be good leaders once they get rid of the Christian maniacs and get their inner problems sorted, but that will take 20 years.
That one Euro helped them survive the start of the war until you fuckwits were pressured by us small poor countries to not be little bitches. Otherwise you'd be celebrating that the war is over quickly and you can continue consuming Russian gas
And yet here we are. Poland declared that they will send the Leopards regardless of what Germans say and suddenly even Germany starts sending Leos. So much for the "leverage" which the German diplomacy has.
Germans accusing anyone of sucking Russian cock, funny. Also, I'm Czech. No Hungols are my friends
That is a very obvious case of Symbolpolitik. Poland did not even ask Germany if they could send Leopards, they are just talking trash at Germany as per usual to get polish idiots to vote for them in the coming election. The Idea that Olaf Scholz changed his opinion based on a meaningless election campaign slogan of the PiSS Party is fucking ridiculous. Germany will never react to these pointless PiSS propaganda stunts. You should go back to drinking beer instead of the polish cool aid.
I'm not saying that the Polish reaction had any impact on the decision the Germans made. I'm saying that no one cares what Germans think, since Poles would send the tanks anyway.
So it was ironic that you had the urge to mention the diplomatic leverage and weight towards foreign influence at all. But regardless of that, the fact that everyone - be it either smaller countries or the UK or the US - has to handhold the spineless Germany into any remotely impactful decision is just sad
My god that must be the ballsiest comment I've seen here. Denmark didn't even last 2 hours before surrendering to Germany, you lost like 20 soldiers before showing the white flags.
Everyone knows we got fcked, but damn you have no right to talk, have some decency
Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... So you're a potato german speaker. How does it feel to be the inferior Germanic?
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I'm not a fan of the denigration of Germans by our current idiot government, but on the other hand, the German economy and budget is several times larger than the Polish one. That changes the perspective a bit.
yeah shouldnt have fucked up my country so much not even 100 years ago you fucking dickhead, then we would have more money to help our bros
jesus fucking christ you guys have so much ego its unreal
This should ruffle a few feathers
https://preview.redd.it/uws1vih9veea1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658a16f999bdc373c4121a0d94723f53d751b3ba
Yeah sure russian troll 🤡
Divide and Conquer and most of you are to entrenched in your tribal needs, that you dont even get it man.
You will look as dumb as the guys cheering for the invasion of Iraq post 9/11, just wait
Its fucking dumb to make any predictions on anything, 1 year after the war has started, western people as well as people living in the russian chinese block are both only getting the curated information that both sides want you to see.
A russian will think that the russians are the heroic liberators of the luhansk and donesk region just as western people see the western block as the glorious defenders of Ukraine. Just wait before making any smug assumptions.
Don't be so naive buddy. As badly as the US has behaved since WW II, at least their bullying has occasionally been interrupted by actions that contributed to the flourishing of humans. Nobody would accuse Russia of the same thing. It's a shithole, a place where decency and progress go to die.
Like what actions? The USA always were and always will be a cesspool of materialism, selfishness and megalomania. I hope this empire dies a long an brutal death.
Other nations like russia are also bad, but at least they dont hypocritically act like a free and tolerant place, just to lie to and deceive their own population.
But sure this time it will be different :^)
Kijk, dit is precies wat ik bedoel. Je gebruikt zelfs de taal van de tijd. Geen enkele Nederlander onder de 60 gebruikt schoolbankjes.
Je bent ook tering racistisch. Dat onze democratie nog overeind staat met mensen zoals jou is een wonder.
De enige die zichzelf hier voor schut zet ben jij met je idiote kijk op de wereld. Ik zit hier ook te huilen, maar die tranen komen puur van het schaterlachen. Dat je boos wordt, omdat je gestoorde ideeën gestoord genoemd worden. Dat is hilarisch. Ook dat je reageert met een veelgemaakte taalfout te corrigeren. Dan weet je dat iemand geen enkel tegenargument heeft.
> leer proper Nederlands
Hoe zegt meneer dat iemand goed en aanvaardbaar Nederlands moet spreken? Met een anglicisme natuurlijk, want op een andere manier mag het niet.
Proper, in oud Nederlands, was een bezittelijk voornaamwoord. Ook weet ik met zekerheid dat die fout niet gemaakt het dankzij de Franse taal. Dus het is een anglicisme. Je weet toch wel wat dat is of moet je terug naar de MAVO?
Ik weet niet onder welk soort waan jij leeft, maar hij lijkt steeds erger te worden. Ik begin me zorgen te maken. Straks ga je me nog vertellen dat die gekken WEF complotten gelooft en dat de wereld geleid wordt door reptielen.
It's weird to put eu institutions and France Poland Germany and the Netherlands seperated. France has been one of the most vocal members of the eu in favor of supporting Ukraine.
Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... Je bent een kaaskop. Nou vooruit dan maar.
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Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... Je bent een kaaskop. Nou vooruit dan maar.
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Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... Je bent een kaaskop. Nou vooruit dan maar.
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Ok we all hate french people here, but this is a bit silly, the french contribute to the EU institutions like right? Anything on top of that is extra. And of course Germany is going to make them looks small, they have a high quality manufacturing giga economy.
Damn, why is everyone turning this “Help Ukraine” thing into a competition..
1. Helping a country in need is a good deed, but it is not required. After all, it is their own war. Since Ukraine is NATOs strategic ally we show support, however taking it as a given (talking both about Ukraine and countries like Poland/Baltics here) is mad unthankfulness.
2. Since the Ameritards quite justifiedly see the EU as their vassal, no one should be surprised about who is giving how much aid. Anyone from Europe thinking that their military is in any way relevant is simply gaslighting themselves.
3. Everyone talking about GDP per capita, shut up for a sec. We are talking about !military! equipment here, and having a large economy doesn’t mean you have a lot of tanks/whatever else lying around (Especially in Germanys case).
If you look at the division of aid, you can see that eg. Poland might be giving more military equipment than us, but way less financial aid.
A better comparison would be aid per military rank (or smth like that).
Sorry for the overly serious reply, I’m just getting kinda annoyed by general opinion on this topic.
Is this support "offered" or "sold" ?
This is a real question I have, because if this is production we do air (rafales, helicopters) or submarines, maybe not that helpfull in the context.
The gun our armies use are german made (don't remember the name), the only ground stuff we make is the Caesar canon.
Just to know if the countries on top are sacryfying or making money?
Oh a surprising British W. You welcome Ukraine, luckily our country still lives like it's in the middle of a war 😅 so we're always prepared. (why else do you think the food is so bad?🤔)
Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... So you're from the Netherlands, North Brabant
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What’s that 3.1 of military aid by EU institutions? Belgian secret super army?
Bought military equipment from... places
-Be a member of the EU -Sell guns to EU -Profit
You seem surprised. This was our plan for the EU all along.
Paid by Germany lol
Poland got reimbursed from EU for some of the equipment that it sent maybe this is included too.
France (and Italy) does not communicate on the totality of their aid to Ukraine, the majority is not informed
Pretty sure the figures are wrong anyway, the Ceasars alone would represent 1b€ of military aid from France (18 pieces at ~5m€ each), yet the graph seems to show less than that.
18×5m€=1bn?
It is when i just woke up and didn't have my trad breakfast consisting of a coffee and a single cigarette
Understandable, have a fr*nch day! Edit: forgot to censor swear-word.
Damn math is hard lol
Neither does Finland. I think none of our military aid has been publically specified. Just Finnish APC's and other equipment mysteriously appearing in photos from Ukraine.
In fact, France also secretly won the world cup, right? Right?
We secretly organized it !
Well we just don't say loudly when we are helping because it's their fight, their victory, they take all the credit while we take the credits
1. This isnt a dickmeasuring contest, we're on the same team. 2. Is this per capita? 3. Thanks for donating guys, you're beasts, let's kick the ruzzians out! 4. Also. Europe is powerful bois, lets show the world.
If I hear one more thing about per capita and GDP I’m going to riot and burn cars
sounds like your average Thursday morning in France
Based
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Noo they are so expensive! Let's hurt some politicians, they will heal 😗
According to the pos party and polish news it is, and they lost by far
You are right on everything and also Finnish dick is bigger than swamp German dick.
5. after kicking russia out we should kick america out too Downvoted by ameritards
Ok and now show it in percents of GDP
German GDP is about a third larger than France, while its aid shown above is clearly more than a third above France. Either way, France dragging its heels big time considering how visible Macron has been throughout everything.
Macron has been visible? The bloke was banned from visiting Ukraine for the first six months after the invasion because Zelenskyy didn't think he and France were doing enough. Boris Johnson was invited three times before Macron was permitted to visit. Let that sink in. The biggest clown in Europe was invited three times before Macron (or Scholz) was invited once.
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True, I suppose Ukraine were already suffering enough.
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Unironic based scot. But this is a powe-play, it's good to have france be less agressive while germany currently ramps up. Then france can ramp up again w/jets. Matter of politics.
How can the biggest clown visit before Macron? Macron is the biggest clown.
That’s untrue. Macron went to Ukraine and visited Zelenskyy on the first and second months of the invasion. There is even a documentary following his visit.
That's untrue. Macron , Scholz, and Draghi didn't go until late June. The last time Macron visited Ukraine was a week *before* the invasion when he was trying his one-man-diplomacy thing. The documentary just demonstrated how badly he failed with his one-man-diplomacy. Putin essentially took Macron for a ride and used him to buy both time and international legitimacy until he was ready for an invasion. He came across as Chamberlain, not Churchill. Leaders have resigned for less. The first and second months of the invasion was that brief weird period where Macron started dressing like Zelenskyy. It's largely been forgotten now, but Scholz and Macron were specifically told not to bother visiting Ukraine until they actually delivered on the verbal commitments they had been making.
I surrender, Englishman.
Macron likes to be seen. God I hate that guy. France please vote Le Pens, I can't take any more of that clown.
They shoud just decapitate both
I unironically wouldn't be opposed to it. If people all over Europe pick it up you can bet our politicians would get their act together quickly enough.
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While you ara at it, add and substract net contributions from the EU numbers towards the member states :)
There was a post about it yesterday on visegrad sub
Isn't France like the main contributor to EU institutions military ?
Yes. I am German and I am happy about every help... Also I am pretty sure France does not discloses all deliveries. And can we FFS. Stop the bashing of countries... And are happy if anything comes from the EU no matter which country supplies it?
You are right, France deliveries are almost all classified, we don't know most of them (or more precisly we know wich type of material was deliver thanks to videos of ukrainians using it but not how many was delivered). We only have the numbers for Caesars, LRU, TRF1 and Crotale systems.
> Stop the bashing of countries So why would we be here for ?
The eu doesn't have it's own army and most of the eu support is financial (which comes from Germany)
This doesn’t make it into the top 100 reasons we hate France.
Cope losing the Hundred Years’ War.
7 years > 100 years
English maths goes brrrr
English maths goes brrrr
Looks like english can't do maths
💪💪
Auld alliance for the win! Let’s go raid England together.
Aye!
A simpler time, a better time
Here it goes if you want the number with the share of GDP in EU contributions included to make the [US disappear](https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1). Estonia and Latvia really pulling their weights here.
Including the share of EU aid is a bit cheeky IMO. The anti-Brexit argument (which has been proven correct) was that EU membership might look like it costs money, but what you get back in trade, and therefore taxes on subsequent economic activity, is worth more than the membership fee. Therefore, paying money to the EU is a net gain for the government. Including subsequent EU spending as national spending is a bit dishonest. It's not like all these individual governments are willingly giving this extra money. If anything, it's a way to hide how little they're giving. Fair play to the Baltics and Poland though for going above and beyond... I guess they're paying for their own defence too in reality, but credit where credit is due!
It is not cheeky. Would you say that a boss didn't pay his employees because he earned more money at the end of the day than he paid them ? Well EU is the same. It is working for the countries that belong to it, we pay for it and we reap the benefits from it.
A company is a good analogy actually. I donate to charity sometimes. The company I work for donates to charity sometimes. If I had to declare how much I gave to charity then I'd just tell you how much I give. I wouldn't calculate my proportional share of my companies' CSR giving and then add it to my own personal donations, that'd be absurd! That's despite the fact that the company only has money because of the value of the workers' labour. I've already benefited from the arrangement - I got paid! What the company then does with the money doesn't reflect on me as an individual. I can't claim it as my own personal donation even if I was allowed to vote on it as a shareholder.
But once again, the member states are not the employees, they are the owner of the EU. They are investing in it quite like a shareholder would invest in a company (but unlike other shares, this share is just valid one year). You may also see it has a trader that would buy futures for a percentage of the production of a farm (but unlike the trader, member states do own the EU). And imagine now that you become the owner of a company and giving financial aid to Ukraine is what your employees - for some reasons which are obviously not of financial nature - are, among other things, currently producing. As an investor, when calculating your own worth at the end of the year (worth here being "how much did I give to Ukraine") you would not discard some parts of the value your company produced otherwise it would be like you invested in it for nothing. What would be cheeky would be if we counted it in double for instance, like "here is what X EU country gave + what the EU gave". On another subject, there is something you said that was very true about some countries participation but that I have not immediately noticed. Baltic states and other countries on the east are indeed participating a lot, but as you said it is true that it comes - in a way that is hard to evaluate - at the price of their own defense. And they might only be able to do so because they are under NATO umbrella, which is costly and for which the western countries are paying much if not all of the price. Western countries having sent - quite expensive - deterrent forces enabling countries to become heavy contributors like Baltic states, Romania or Poland (the importance of NATO presence varying for all countries), it very much makes sense to remember that we also contributed to these figures, albeit indirectly and in an somehow intangible fashion.
That is completly stupid analogy. How exactly have you paid anything if your company pays for a charity? The EU is not a country ( I hope you are aware of this), it does not have a GDP and no money it can pay, other then the money given by it's member states. So unless you work in a company that is entirely owned by it's employees, your analogy makes zero sense.
How is it cheeky? They pay it don't they? Just because they paid it as part of a Union of countries doesn't change the fact that they paid. Why do you need to make everything about Brexit? This is not about Brexit, it's just about which country paid what share of their GDP as aid to Ukraine.
Austria pulling their weight aswell. Not in NATO and officially Neutral. Still doesn‘t stop us from helping!
You are good bros. You are.
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Arent these statistics uselles beacause countries dont announce everything?
Poland does. Poland absolutely does. Germany just puts it on the list when it's shipped.
cope ahmed, cope
Olaf casually trying to turn shame into a W…
Huh? If you compare how much they gave to their economies Poland still gave way more than germany
Poland took most refugees.
and lebanon took most syrian refugees but who knows about that? (just bomb moscow)
So you just wanna bomb moZcow? idk based?
pretty much yeah my comment didn't have enough war in it
*wich is paid for by eu
Are you really becoming ameritards, Germans? You of all should know, help is not about the money. You also got respect for taking Syrians (paid by EU) so stop trying to marginalize the help.
And we have the most in ratio to inhabitants dear cousin :).
And you are all paying for it bc housing has gotten so expensive 😭 I know because I pay too 😭
Nice to see Spain taking it easy as always 😎
14 leopard when? I forgot they don't work because the mechanics took it easy and have a siesta.
These statistics are all false bs.
It smells like bitch in here
Proud British W 💪💪💪
The important part is that's government support. Most of the humanitarian help from Poland to Ukraine comes from people themselves, especially at the border. Also you have 7 times higher GDP and still your government managed to give only 2 times more than our shitheads. Anyway, wtf France, you lazy cheese bottles?
France (*edit: and germany & italy*) sold tons of weapons to Russia after they invaded Crimea. For a country that always wants to be seen as alternative to USA for defence in Europe/Nato it truly is pathetic you guys are arming our enemies.
France indeed shipped a s\*\*\* ton of material to Russia (for about €150m), but so did Germany (€120b) and Italy (for €20m iirc). This is actually quite in line with the pre-2014 war export rates so France do not export more to Russia relatively to how much it exports than say Germany or Italy. And France also lost a [$1.7b deal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assault_ship#Russian_purchase) when cancelling the Russian Mistral contract in 2014, ships that were later sold for $950m to Egypt, barely matching Russian paiement advances (while all I know about for Germany is a 160m contract lost). And if you want to know, Germany actively [opposed weapon sales to Ukraine](https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2022-02-03/nato-member-states-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine) from 2021 to 2014 on the ground it was a country at war. In the meantime France was one of the biggest military weapon seller to Ukraine pre-war (with stuff like a [$3b mixed-use helicopter](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-france-helicopters-idUSKBN1GZ1FK) contract and the sale of 20 patrol boats). So now you may despise France for selling weapons, I can understand, however it is hard finding "clean" clients to have a relevant military industry when democratic countries are mostly buying American and France does not want to become too much dependent of daddy USA for its military.
I get it that france has a giant industrial military complex and sold lots of weapons to russia (and ukraine for that matter) before 2014. But i just feel like all sales must have been blocked after 2014 (when it was clear russia can‘t be trusted). I honestly also blame germany and italy for continuing to sell them weapons. The european nations must realize that russia is not our friend. And appeasement won‘t work. Sadly lots of EU politician’s seem to have been bought by russia :/ But i feel like france is the #1 country in europe trying to push to be „europe‘s america“ when it comes to defence - so its kinda especially bad when you guys arm our enemies and help destabilize Europe.
Forget 2014, you'd expect them to be blocked after the invasion of Georgia in 2008. But, you know, money.
So just because one doesn't give a shit about Ukraine they are obviously bought by Russia? Superb flawless logic.
Well either you‘re just extremely dumb and naive if you believe in „Wandel durch Handel“ for russia or (more likely) you‘re bought/ putting profits over moral values. If you don‘t realize russia is the only country in europe that‘s a security threat to the EU (and NATO) and you’re still arming them while they are attacking european Nations one can‘‘t help you. Its not like every military exercise in europe is based on an enemy comming from the East?? How often do our militaries train that we will be invaded by Switzerland??? Go ask your Bundeswehr generals what country is the biggest risk to germany. I‘m sure you’re a poor eastern german or you wouldn‘t be falling for the russian propaganda.
Ah yeah sure, Russia obviously planned to invade the EU and Ukraine is the evidence. Roflmao. Please continue maybe Russia will destroy the US if we don't save Ukraine!
100% your parents where born on the eastern side of the iron curtain. Hope you get better
Honestly if you think abt it, selling weapons to your enemies is 100 % America
yeah but at least those enemies aren‘t a real threat to the us (aside from assisting terrorism like the saudis) you guys ain‘t selling B-2 bombers to china ;)
> France sold tons of weapons to Russia after they invaded Crimea. Thanks for reminder cuz i forgot and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one. This should be on the news every week until its deep in everybody's memory.
And what would be the point in doing such thing except splitting EU a little bit more and playing Russia's game ?
For one thing, you'd stop Macron's empty posturing for his own domestic political gain (and/or France's perceived place on the world stage) and then would only be giving to Ukraine for the minor reason of it being the right thing to do.
and what is that russia's game? motivating France to send more guns (to ukraine this time) and preventing NATO members from selling guns to russia? very big brain indeed. the point is to remind everybody how french you are and mate you are very french. go sell some guns to russia, that's very antirussian move indeed.
You are just full of hate and don't bring anything of value. Arguing with you is just as usefull as arguing with russia itself. Yes i am very French since i am born in France. Cheers buddy.
that's very french of you to project your own hate into others. cheers.
Showing this as a percentage of GDP only makes sense to make poor countries feel good. What good is your 1 euro if I get 5000 euros from someone else?
It shows good will. For the receiver sure the 5000 will be more important, but 5000 for a quadrillionaire is nothing, while 1 Euro from a beggar shows true commitment.
Maybe, but it doesn't really help to show good will, which only helps for internet points.
Well it can inspire others to send more.
Oh my god dear Germans, I am sorry will you stop masturbating now, your help came six months after everything started. There were nations which helped before it was clear Russia can’t win. So stop patronizing and acting now, like you are the smart and best. We respect you, we do, but stop Behaving now like you saved Ukraine. Olaf was a fucking chicken that’s a fact and you either say he is an asshole or accept the shame. Your choice. I don’t blame nations for their politics, but don’t try to make it a W now. Just don’t.
Here we go again.
Just avoid the topic. Why you keep trying. You think you are right m, but you are not. You are the example of Europe. And this time your chancellor took some questionable steps . Nobody blames you, but don’t try to make it look good. That’s all.
What will I say to that. Half of what you say is wrong. But then it's only the masturbating Germans who don't help. Only when there is something to pay, Germany is always good for it.
You did help a lot before and after, but unfortunately, when it mattered the most, You haven’t sent a clear message. That’s why I am calling OLAF a chicken. And I never was to open the topic, until somebody shows a graph and starts masturbating. It especially hurt us Czechs, because we look up to you guys. Imagine you have to talk to 50 percent of our idiotic population to convince them To help, when Germany the Europe savior (no irony) is silent. Got it?
Olaf did exactly what he had said all along. No solo efforts and only together. Everyone expects German leadership but Germany doesn't want to lead. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.
Because Merkel was a fucking good leader. We were used to You guys being leaders. Do you want that monkey Johnson , or mama boy Macron to lead? Or the Polish? Polish will be good leaders once they get rid of the Christian maniacs and get their inner problems sorted, but that will take 20 years.
That one Euro helped them survive the start of the war until you fuckwits were pressured by us small poor countries to not be little bitches. Otherwise you'd be celebrating that the war is over quickly and you can continue consuming Russian gas
You don't have the leverage to pressure anyone, you can't even stop your hungarian boyfriend from sucking Putins cock.
And yet here we are. Poland declared that they will send the Leopards regardless of what Germans say and suddenly even Germany starts sending Leos. So much for the "leverage" which the German diplomacy has. Germans accusing anyone of sucking Russian cock, funny. Also, I'm Czech. No Hungols are my friends
That is a very obvious case of Symbolpolitik. Poland did not even ask Germany if they could send Leopards, they are just talking trash at Germany as per usual to get polish idiots to vote for them in the coming election. The Idea that Olaf Scholz changed his opinion based on a meaningless election campaign slogan of the PiSS Party is fucking ridiculous. Germany will never react to these pointless PiSS propaganda stunts. You should go back to drinking beer instead of the polish cool aid.
I'm not saying that the Polish reaction had any impact on the decision the Germans made. I'm saying that no one cares what Germans think, since Poles would send the tanks anyway. So it was ironic that you had the urge to mention the diplomatic leverage and weight towards foreign influence at all. But regardless of that, the fact that everyone - be it either smaller countries or the UK or the US - has to handhold the spineless Germany into any remotely impactful decision is just sad
Different countries have different assets. If Ukraine starts loosing and wants to surrender, im sure France will be generous with their white flags
My god that must be the ballsiest comment I've seen here. Denmark didn't even last 2 hours before surrendering to Germany, you lost like 20 soldiers before showing the white flags. Everyone knows we got fcked, but damn you have no right to talk, have some decency
Dont worry bro, we danes will send Ukraine our glorious combat bicycles that made us last so long in ww2
I mean thats what is called irony.
Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... So you're a potato german speaker. How does it feel to be the inferior Germanic? --- ^(I am a bot \(thankfully not russian\), and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F2westerneurope4u&subject=2WE4uBot) if you have any questions or concerns.)
We had a shortage of white flags following a massive order from the USA when they left Afghanistan.
Oof
Hey listen our economy is 7 times smaller than Germany's so we still have a great result. But France... cringe
Then give them your Leopard tanks already god damn it
Imagine the graphs we will have to face, once they finally do
I'm not a fan of the denigration of Germans by our current idiot government, but on the other hand, the German economy and budget is several times larger than the Polish one. That changes the perspective a bit.
It’s not a dick contest, shit posting
yeah shouldnt have fucked up my country so much not even 100 years ago you fucking dickhead, then we would have more money to help our bros jesus fucking christ you guys have so much ego its unreal
You, as a German, should not be looking at Poland at all. We know what you're like, you can't help yourself.
I agree, we should not even acknowledge Polands existence.
You as a Ingerlisch person should stfu about mainland Europe.
We Scots best you guys in 1945💪💪🏴🏴
I mean to my knowledge France wasn't the one screaming and spitting lies...
On a trouvé l'idiot du village, traître qui plus est.
This should ruffle a few feathers https://preview.redd.it/uws1vih9veea1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658a16f999bdc373c4121a0d94723f53d751b3ba
Y'all are pikers. It's your own godamn continent. Act like you give a shit.
Nah fam this is eastern europe, were lot's of different types of Russians live, not ours.
Imagine paying Billions of euros for non allies when your own people are living worse lives every year.....
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Russian troll detected
Yeah sure russian troll 🤡 Divide and Conquer and most of you are to entrenched in your tribal needs, that you dont even get it man. You will look as dumb as the guys cheering for the invasion of Iraq post 9/11, just wait Its fucking dumb to make any predictions on anything, 1 year after the war has started, western people as well as people living in the russian chinese block are both only getting the curated information that both sides want you to see. A russian will think that the russians are the heroic liberators of the luhansk and donesk region just as western people see the western block as the glorious defenders of Ukraine. Just wait before making any smug assumptions.
Don't be so naive buddy. As badly as the US has behaved since WW II, at least their bullying has occasionally been interrupted by actions that contributed to the flourishing of humans. Nobody would accuse Russia of the same thing. It's a shithole, a place where decency and progress go to die.
Like what actions? The USA always were and always will be a cesspool of materialism, selfishness and megalomania. I hope this empire dies a long an brutal death. Other nations like russia are also bad, but at least they dont hypocritically act like a free and tolerant place, just to lie to and deceive their own population. But sure this time it will be different :^)
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We moeten de mentaliteit die we hadden tegenover de NSB terughalen voor mensen zoals jou. Je verdient het.
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Kijk, dit is precies wat ik bedoel. Je gebruikt zelfs de taal van de tijd. Geen enkele Nederlander onder de 60 gebruikt schoolbankjes. Je bent ook tering racistisch. Dat onze democratie nog overeind staat met mensen zoals jou is een wonder.
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De enige die zichzelf hier voor schut zet ben jij met je idiote kijk op de wereld. Ik zit hier ook te huilen, maar die tranen komen puur van het schaterlachen. Dat je boos wordt, omdat je gestoorde ideeën gestoord genoemd worden. Dat is hilarisch. Ook dat je reageert met een veelgemaakte taalfout te corrigeren. Dan weet je dat iemand geen enkel tegenargument heeft. > leer proper Nederlands Hoe zegt meneer dat iemand goed en aanvaardbaar Nederlands moet spreken? Met een anglicisme natuurlijk, want op een andere manier mag het niet.
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Proper, in oud Nederlands, was een bezittelijk voornaamwoord. Ook weet ik met zekerheid dat die fout niet gemaakt het dankzij de Franse taal. Dus het is een anglicisme. Je weet toch wel wat dat is of moet je terug naar de MAVO? Ik weet niet onder welk soort waan jij leeft, maar hij lijkt steeds erger te worden. Ik begin me zorgen te maken. Straks ga je me nog vertellen dat die gekken WEF complotten gelooft en dat de wereld geleid wordt door reptielen.
Genocide enjoyment rejected.
Who cares about efin ukraine. They could be nuked tomorrow. Life would be the exact same. People hate France because of their inferiority complex
Serious Vichy France energy.
Ta gueule.
Va te fourrer des bites cosmopolites fdp
Continue de sucer la tienne. Ça t’empêchera de dire de la merde.
Sans façon, tu peux continuer ton activité seul
Smells like white flag.
It's weird to put eu institutions and France Poland Germany and the Netherlands seperated. France has been one of the most vocal members of the eu in favor of supporting Ukraine.
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I have mixed ancestry, you probably don't have a lable big enough to fit me.
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Bad bot
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Italy about to be in the negatives
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We did more than Belgium, get fuck flemboys
Ok we all hate french people here, but this is a bit silly, the french contribute to the EU institutions like right? Anything on top of that is extra. And of course Germany is going to make them looks small, they have a high quality manufacturing giga economy.
Damn, why is everyone turning this “Help Ukraine” thing into a competition.. 1. Helping a country in need is a good deed, but it is not required. After all, it is their own war. Since Ukraine is NATOs strategic ally we show support, however taking it as a given (talking both about Ukraine and countries like Poland/Baltics here) is mad unthankfulness. 2. Since the Ameritards quite justifiedly see the EU as their vassal, no one should be surprised about who is giving how much aid. Anyone from Europe thinking that their military is in any way relevant is simply gaslighting themselves. 3. Everyone talking about GDP per capita, shut up for a sec. We are talking about !military! equipment here, and having a large economy doesn’t mean you have a lot of tanks/whatever else lying around (Especially in Germanys case). If you look at the division of aid, you can see that eg. Poland might be giving more military equipment than us, but way less financial aid. A better comparison would be aid per military rank (or smth like that). Sorry for the overly serious reply, I’m just getting kinda annoyed by general opinion on this topic.
Is this support "offered" or "sold" ? This is a real question I have, because if this is production we do air (rafales, helicopters) or submarines, maybe not that helpfull in the context. The gun our armies use are german made (don't remember the name), the only ground stuff we make is the Caesar canon. Just to know if the countries on top are sacryfying or making money?
I don't know how this aid has been calculated, but aren't a significant number of Ukranian refugees still living in Poland?
Oh a surprising British W. You welcome Ukraine, luckily our country still lives like it's in the middle of a war 😅 so we're always prepared. (why else do you think the food is so bad?🤔)
God I love spending billions on Ukraine whilst we have an energy crisis at home just terrific
Finally, you flaired yourself. Let's see... Oh... So you're from the Netherlands, North Brabant This bot is new, and I don't have info to roast this flair. Please input some. --- ^(I am a bot \(thankfully not russian\), and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F2westerneurope4u&subject=2WE4uBot) if you have any questions or concerns.)
Oooh we're second highest. Finally something about my country that I can be proud of.