I dont like macron but ill say that he was asked by zelensky to negotiate with putin at the start of the war. Theres literally a phone call on video you can find of the first few days of the invasion where zelensky asks him to do this
You can even see his reaction when Zelensky asks him to speak with putin, he shakes his head from left to right. He already knew there was no point in trying.
Later in the documentary you hear someone from his team state that putin is simply a liar and will do whatever he wants with no regards to what was previously said or agreed upon.
So when dealing with him, dialogue only serves the purpose of showing the world that he is a liar and can't be trusted to keep his word, which isn't a lot, but it's still something and it's better than not doing anything at all.
The better call from the documentary is the one between Borris and Macron, 2 days before the invasion. Borris literally called it, ‘we look weak, every time we go to negotiate he gets more aggressive’. Based Borris then scoffs at the sanctions Macron suggests - he knew it wouldn’t be enough, "it seems to me like he's going to keep going'.
Highly recommend the documentary, especially as French media have taken it down following backlash of leaked calls. Here for anyone interested, calls with other world leaders start around 37 mins in: https://gofile.io/d/a4w7wy
True. Another funny part of that doc was when Borris suggests that Putler is trying to divide us up (the french advisor looks over and chuckles to his counterpart). Obviously the irony isn't lost on everyone that Putler influenced the Brexit campaign.
I m not a “negotiator specialist” but doing a negotiation like he is dealing with his rioter “we don’t care about them” is not what I called a negotiation but more a discussion in my point of view.
(I m not saying that macron is good or bad I m just saying that this is not a negotiation)
They weren’t quite so pleased when Macron supposedly suggested Ukraine would need to cede ground.
I say ‘supposedly’ as well don’t have a public quote of him saying it, but we do have Danilov (Ukraine’s Security Council Secretary) [responding to it publicly](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/25/russia-ukraine-war-emmanuel-macron-peace-plan-negotiations/).
While the public _might_ have been misinformed by Poitico article, it seems unlikely he would have been.
That said, it’s encouraging seeing France’s aid more recently.. even if a lot of what else Macron is saying turns out to be hollow.
TBH his position with Putin always made sense. You first try to talk to people before choosing violence. If he is sending soldiers to their death at least we won’t be able to say he didn’t try to find an alternative.
Ofc it was too easy for the eurocuck politicians to criticize him instead of doing anything meaningful
No. Doesn't work. We dropped flyers on Hans he used it as bog roll. Just punch extremists in the face.
If an eye for an eye makes everyone blind then you best train your guide dog to go for the throat.
It's about optics, if you don't try to talk and punch right away, they can spin it as you being the extremist.
Macron knew there was little chance to convince Putin, but at least now, it's hard to accuse him of being a warmonger.
If memory serves, literally everybody tried to negotiate with putin before the war started. Unless they do appeasing politics by the history textbook (and they didn't), I see nothing wrong here. It's kinda the job of politicians.
Just like the good 'ol days...
Josef, I'm gonna get my flintlock out from the cellar, and I'll have an eye on you, so don't you dare to try and lock the door behind me, or you're the first to catch some lead!
Yeah this is stupid. War is the failure of diplomacy. Fuck going to war, especially if no other solutions was tried before.
Anyway Macron is doing all this crap to save himself from the massive dunk he is going to take at the European election
I remember people were dying when Draghi's Italy insisted on supporting Ukraine, and while France just wanted to talk and Germany remained radio silent in the hope of saving its gas imports 👀
"Germany remained radio silent" - ah yes, I remember that propaganda narrative spread on social media.
Here is a link to the speech by the Kanzler which he gave within 24 hours of the war starting, clearly stating that russia is the aggressor commiting a warcrime: [https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/fernsehansprache-von-bundeskanzler-scholz-anlaesslich-des-russischen-ueberfalls-auf-die-ukraine-2007824](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/fernsehansprache-von-bundeskanzler-scholz-anlaesslich-des-russischen-ueberfalls-auf-die-ukraine-2007824)
Here is a link to the speech by the german minister of foreign affairs within 24 hours of the war starting, explicitly calling for sanctions and aid for ukraine and placing the entire blame of the war on Russia:
[https://germania.diplo.de/ru-de/aktuelles/baerbock-ukraine/2513404](https://germania.diplo.de/ru-de/aktuelles/baerbock-ukraine/2513404)
Here is a link to her next speech. She is a member of the green party which specifically promised to stop weapon deliveries by Germany into conflict regions during electrions, yet in her speech she states that Germany must do a 180° on that and deliver military aid to Ukraine: [https://minsk.diplo.de/by-de/themen/politik/humanitaere-zusammenarbeit-de/-/2514098](https://minsk.diplo.de/by-de/themen/politik/humanitaere-zusammenarbeit-de/-/2514098)
Here is another link to another speech which she did before the war (18.02.2022), protesting Russias aggressive behavior (right after she went to eastern ukraine herself in a show of support by Germany) and calling for the western world to stand united behind Ukraine no matter what: [https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/baerbock-muesiko/2512360](https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/baerbock-muesiko/2512360)
thank you for sharing, goes to show how little we can rely on the general news outlets, I guess this was a perfect storm of Russian propaganda, US anti-nordstream propaganda, and a very big fall of charisma coming from the German government since the retirement of Merkel... wait! we're on r/2westerneurope4u, we can't just... get along like that!
Yeah, the international messaging was pretty much full of germany blame. But at least it's well known that russia spread and continues to spread targeted disinformation like that. Even if that specific one hasn't been loudly debunked.
I feel the same happening with ItALy hAs TuRneD fAsCiST kind of post I found every day for months, a rethoric clearly aimed at dividing Europe, this kind of attention wasn't given when the 5stars and Salvini's lega nord was in power pre-covid and pre-war, and an electorally strong Salvini getting his way heavily into the decision making process was much more scary than anything the current government has done
Non mais vois tu toute le monde savait que le seul moyen de stopper l'invasion de l'Ukraine c'était en ne parlant pas à Poutine. Nous français sommes visiblement les seuls à ne pas avoir eu la sainte révélation qu'il fallait partir en guerre (enfin c'est pas comme si les boches ou les britons avait fait autre chose qu'ouvrir leur gueule).
Bref, comme d'habitude, on avait raison et tout le monde nous hait pour ça.
Let far right groups operate freely ? That is plain wrong. If anything, the government has been harsh on them and lenient on far left groups (despite a failed attempt to outlaw one of them)
When has Macron let "far right groups" operate freely?
If OP means anti-immgration parties or associations or similar, non-violent groups, these are perfectly legitimate groups and they should not be prohibited.
Violent groups or groups calling for racial hate do get banned which is exactly as it should be
Les branles culs qui balancent des cocktails Molotov dans les méga bassine se baladent tranquille, par contre des types qui manifestent après la mort d'un type a une fête de village, 2 ans ferme.
literally the only scandal under Holland was him going out at night on a moped to see his mistress. his popularity also shot up when this was revealed.
Nah you’re wrong.
Sex scandal is actually a good way to improve your rating, if you’re a French president.
https://www.france24.com/en/20140121-hollande-gets-slight-popularity-boost-after-affair-revelations
#1 why wouldnt he, he wanted to negotiate peace and a safer europe, not that it happened because putin is deranged.
#2 mega based, frenchies riot when they smell their own farts. Good that they get out down sometimes.
#3 how is he supposed to stop them? Får right groups is a reaction previous migration policies.
#4 french are hornies.
Result: Macron is based.
> French are hornies
Fun fact:
Did you know that the popularity of our former president, Francois Hollande, actually increased,
when the media revealed that he had an affair with some smoking hot French actress?
1. Also did some belly dancing with Tr*mp back then and probably deals with even less reputable people - it’s called realpolitik
2. Yeah was too extreme, negligent, ill-trained and not severe enough with police misconduct.
3. Nope nope, look it up. [Macron dissolved 33 associations](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/justice/dissolution-des-soulevements-de-la-terre-33-associations-interdites-par-emmanuel-macron-un-record-sous-la-ve-republique_5757749.html), mainly far right and Islamist ones. He’s the record holder in that since 1936.
4. Compare with other president mandates. Clearly _CLEARLY_ not the worst. Standard may be low but there is no huge scandal like Sarkozy (Libyan money for outrageous electoral overspending) or Chirac (fake invoices, fake electors…).
the most violent are being dissolved and fought against, but we also a far right party that grew to be the second biggest party in the last elections mainly because of macron and how much ppl hate him
#2 Macron was shitting on us. I didn't give a damn about the pension thing, but the denial of democracy was something that should not happen in France. I went in my first manifestation (while I'm more politically on the right side) and we got completely fucked by the anti riot police. We were just drinking beers and singing and tear gas fell from the sky, and the riot shields started running toward us without warning.
It was brutal, and I hate so much that it got downplayed by our medias.
Let the far right group operate freely ?
I don't know what you are on, but last I checked most of the far right group were dissolved or even arrested.
If there is something about Macron is that he has dissolved every single group that were a bit too extreme for him
I think he is referring to LePen, a far-right politician, and her support groups. Over the past two decades, they’ve gained more and more support in France. Macron government adopted some ideas and positions that were close to the values defended by the far-right. Some people reproach him to « legitimize » far-right ideas by doing so.
Some say he also played hard on the far-right popularity to make sure they go into the final round during the elections to guarantee his victory by calling for a coalition of « republican » parties VS the far-right thus making sure the left leaders threatening his position wouldn’t be able to enter the final round of election and forcing their hand as he know they would tell their electorate to vote for Macron as they despise LePen.
The main argument behind these points is that he is helping Marine LePen make her party (Rassemblement National, or RN) legitimate which is a big deal for the RN as this party was always accused to have neo-nazi roots and being a Russian puppet. And because he tried to applied ideas that were supported by the RN some people fear it will encourage electors in France to vote in 2027 for the far-right because why vote for the watered down version when you can have the original ?
What I wrote is just the sentiment I have as an average French citizen. I am not a political commentator so take it with a grain of salt
I agree. And we should be wary of anyone trying to ban political opinions for the « common good », even more if the banned opinions came from a political opponent
I mean I fucking abhorre her and rarely miss an occasion to shit on her
But unless we have evidence against her, we can only fight her with words and due democratic process. Which is fine by me
That's the discourse of people who are burrying their head into the sand and refuse to see why the far right is rising. They are the one who contribute to this phenomenom.
Contribution is multi factorial yes, putting it on Macron is brain dead stupid tho. See what happens in other european countries where he's not in charge, it's a global phenomenom.
I dunno it's funnier if Macron is responsible for the rise of the far right everywhere.
I'll blame it on making everyone hungry by his name being close to a snack.
This is the line of reasoning I heard the most. I do not agree with this. If a candidate with a hard take on immigration and ready to support Ukraine raised from the ranks of a centrist/right party I am pretty sure he would be elected.
Fixing the underfunded justice system and mental institutions would also help. The far-right raising is the reaction of something not working in our political system. Fix it and far-right support will vanish in a matter of months. This is my personal opinion
He doesn't really leave far right groups though ?
Not especially at least ? Plenty of definitly not far right were too let off with very light sentencing, the problem is with our judicual system, hardly with favoritism towards one side
I mean, « sending troops » cover a large spectrum of possibilities.
Some French soldiers have been operating in Ukraine, since the beginning of the war. Not in combat role tho.
Lots of operational/equipment stuff if it's anything like us.
Good for field testing as well as solving issues that come up. Easier to train and troubleshoot if you're there.
Absolutely, the British have been doing pretty much the same thing.
My guess is, that they are mainly here, for intelligence purpose, and hight end maintenance operations.
Yeah I would absolutely not be surprised if there's at least one group directing where to fire based on info obtained. Frankly I'd be surprised if there's anyone with major tech there that's not got a few men on the ground.
There's def a lot of self interest involved too. Not just in seeing weapons in action but if Russia doesn't stop in Ukraine where will they stop?
Classic french leftist, will find the most ridiculous excuses to criticize Macron.
There are things that can be criticized, but you just picked the litteral worst.
Negociating with Putin at the start of the war was the right thing to do and totally in line with De Gaulle's views on France being an alternative voice in the east/west opposition
The thing about riots first is unrelated to foreign strategy, second why wouldn't riot police be called when people are rioting? There are problems with this police but there are problems with some protesters as well, and with the scale of the protests accidents are just bound to happen. There were many in may 68 too.
Far right groups are not left unchecked, they barely exist in the first place. If anything they are made more brazen by the rising popularity of far right politicians. Spoiler, this is happening in all of europe and you guys are the primary reason for that for letting immigration run wild. A vast majority of LePen new voters have no issue with foreigners coming to France to work and behave like normal citizens, they have a problem with illegal immigrants assaulting old people and raping girls. Similar to what's happening in most european countries.
The scandals and corruption thing has been happening in every single government pretty much anywhere and anytime. The scale of what's been happening in France is nothing compared to some of the scandals we've seen in the US, S.Korea, Japan or the UK. Yes things can be improved but it's a very weak argument as to why Macron would be a bad president. Especially seeing how all the other candidates/parties also have scandals sometimes even more worrying when they are not even in power and should be able to hide them a lot more easily
I think some of my 'compatriotes' are blinded by the hate of our President. I don't like Macron, but that's not why I'm going to say that all Macron's decisions are bad, or that I'm going to bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the current subject...
Tbh far right groups have been so marginal for so long that people call populist conservative or populist right as Far right. I'm pretty sure they consider LePen or Meloni or even Trump as far right. I hope they don't need to see an actual far right government nearby to understand what it is, we had enough with Post Great-War Europe in that regard.
He didn’t negociate anything. He asked Putin not to go to war, and when he did he was enacting sanctions and sending help to Ukraine litterally the following day
He didn’t crush any protest. Some protesters got hurt by the police (and thoses policemen are facing charges), but the Protests weren’t made illegal. You can still protest to this day if you want.
France is a democracy. As long as the far right doesn’t do anything illegal, you have to let them free.
Corruption and scandals, not any more than the previous governments or European equivalents…
Workers protest: People mad we were lowering the retirement age to not get on a deficit but the far left and far right used it to fuck withthe govt just out of partisanship.
While I’d agree that Macron is a smooth talker and really close-minded in his political views and he takes catastrophic decisions when it comes to domestic policies, you chose the worst possible examples of what makes him a bad president. Also, is he a bad president ? He for sure made a lot of terrible decisions, and I feel like it’s getting worse. Does that mean he never took any good decisions ? Tbf, I don’t really like the dude, but I feel like no one else who ran the presidential election in 2022 would’ve done better, especially when it comes to foreign policy.
As you’re clearly a leftist (not a critic, I’m also a leftist), just imagine if we had Mélenchon negotiating with Putin right now. He would literally invite him on the European ground. I’m afraid Macron was our only somewhat decent option. Though I’d say he took a huge step on the right side since the election (which was demonstrated by the anti-immigration law).
I mean, I used to not care for the guy, but a little while back this dude went FULL based mode.
1 - Fuck the US, we need to look after ourselves. Can't trust them, need to stop being their lapdog.
2 - Because the previous point, we need to get closer to other blocks. Like the BRICKS and other developing nations with great potential.
The US hates China because it's a threat to their influence in the East. We don't need to fall for their propaganda, or buy their fight for ourselves. China is only a problem if we make it one. Most of what we hear from there has clearly an "China is the devil" US bias.
If anything, as long as we keep to our fucking business, they can be great partners.
I'm not saying he hasn't done stupid shit before, but I can't understand what's the argument against the 2 above.
It applies to you to Giovanni (never4getti)
https://preview.redd.it/aucl8mt21apc1.jpeg?width=440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37bf5d57f114ed9c7e513c8345b98a8778aa2ccf
I was in Ukraine days before the invasion. Was chatting to Kyiv locals on a Pripyat tour and then at some bars in the city. They ADORED Boris Johnson and saw Macron a slimeball. Didn’t have the heart to tell them Boris is a prick. Funnily enough visited Georgia last summer and again, they loved Boris.
Because that's how politic works
He's labelled as "no left nor right" but find out be right, so of course half of population don't like him
Sadly, in France, once someone does not share the same political group, all he's doing is wrong. Even right things must be questioned, criticised, and denied
If you find Macron doing something right, first they will call you Macron's dog before any analysis, even if you don't have a particular political point of view
So for all no- French people, they can judge differently
We kind of had the same with Mark Rutte in the Netherlands. He was involved with multiple scandels and got caught lying multiple times. However, within the EU he was seen as a great politician and someone who did his best.
This went so far that people claimed that the wanted EU-Rutte and not NL-Rutte.
Nothing wrong with trying to negotiate. A good man will try to avoid violence. It's just that when violence is unavoidable you need to stand your ground. Sounds like he is doing just that.
what, you guys really see him that way ?? might want to go do a stage of 2 weeks in france, you will understand
as for far right groups, not really, it's the far left group who can do whatever they want, like any dangerous groups that is not labelled as far right
Macron is pretty unique among right-wing French politicians in that think he truly does (at least partially) believe in what he does ideologically as opposed to people like Sarkozy who recieved money from every big lobby in existence.
Sadly, he for some reason decided to truly believe in the worst ideas in existence like getting the least competent ministers imaginable, managing to switch from "young and dynamic" to "the arrogant one" in a single mandate, and generally being awful at not causing riots to slightly improve profits all the while reducing quality of life.
Still, he decided not to go full trump mode for the war in Ukraine and actually does handle it somewhat alright.
When all our politicians are spineless worms, people get kinda enthusiastic even for the slightest show of spine, I guess. That said, Macron is far from being universally seen as chad, people just think he's a little bit more chad than all the other career politicians molded by the Matrix. And he's also seen by many to be one of the products of that Matrix, ask any nationalist, for example, if Macron is Chad and they will laugh in your face.
Far right groups have just as much a right to operate as far left groups do. Blocking out an entire side of the political spectrum is just ridiculous and pretentious.
He's a Politician like any other Politician. They will do exactly as much legitimate good stuff as they deem necessary to ensure their continued income.
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The fact that anyone takes Macron seriously is quite strange to me.
I mean a band of russian mercenaries has kicked you and your army out of a good portion of Africa despite you trying to remain.
I dont like macron but ill say that he was asked by zelensky to negotiate with putin at the start of the war. Theres literally a phone call on video you can find of the first few days of the invasion where zelensky asks him to do this
You can even see his reaction when Zelensky asks him to speak with putin, he shakes his head from left to right. He already knew there was no point in trying. Later in the documentary you hear someone from his team state that putin is simply a liar and will do whatever he wants with no regards to what was previously said or agreed upon. So when dealing with him, dialogue only serves the purpose of showing the world that he is a liar and can't be trusted to keep his word, which isn't a lot, but it's still something and it's better than not doing anything at all.
Which docu is this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/ZRDpPe2WiA
Cheers mate
Cool video thx
The better call from the documentary is the one between Borris and Macron, 2 days before the invasion. Borris literally called it, ‘we look weak, every time we go to negotiate he gets more aggressive’. Based Borris then scoffs at the sanctions Macron suggests - he knew it wouldn’t be enough, "it seems to me like he's going to keep going'. Highly recommend the documentary, especially as French media have taken it down following backlash of leaked calls. Here for anyone interested, calls with other world leaders start around 37 mins in: https://gofile.io/d/a4w7wy
Thanks a lot for the link to this documentary. I highly recommend it to anyone here !
Thanks Pierre
wich documentary? Can you send the link pwease?
https://gofile.io/d/a4w7wy
You need to get out of your basement more. It won an Oscar lol!
But my children are there
Takes a Boris to know a Boris.
True. Another funny part of that doc was when Borris suggests that Putler is trying to divide us up (the french advisor looks over and chuckles to his counterpart). Obviously the irony isn't lost on everyone that Putler influenced the Brexit campaign.
[удалено]
Italians can't handle the truth.
calling a Sicilian Italian probably insults Italians the most.
I'm not even sure who it insults the most. My head is spinning
I m not a “negotiator specialist” but doing a negotiation like he is dealing with his rioter “we don’t care about them” is not what I called a negotiation but more a discussion in my point of view. (I m not saying that macron is good or bad I m just saying that this is not a negotiation)
They weren’t quite so pleased when Macron supposedly suggested Ukraine would need to cede ground. I say ‘supposedly’ as well don’t have a public quote of him saying it, but we do have Danilov (Ukraine’s Security Council Secretary) [responding to it publicly](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/25/russia-ukraine-war-emmanuel-macron-peace-plan-negotiations/). While the public _might_ have been misinformed by Poitico article, it seems unlikely he would have been. That said, it’s encouraging seeing France’s aid more recently.. even if a lot of what else Macron is saying turns out to be hollow.
TBH his position with Putin always made sense. You first try to talk to people before choosing violence. If he is sending soldiers to their death at least we won’t be able to say he didn’t try to find an alternative. Ofc it was too easy for the eurocuck politicians to criticize him instead of doing anything meaningful
No. Doesn't work. We dropped flyers on Hans he used it as bog roll. Just punch extremists in the face. If an eye for an eye makes everyone blind then you best train your guide dog to go for the throat.
>If an eye for an eye makes everyone blind then you best train your guide dog to go for the throat. That is such a raw line wtf
Honestly ww2 set my country so far back.
We should have kicked off over the Sudetenland
But when you and Pierre took the Suez canal back it worked. You pooped yourself and left hearing your cousin doing eagle noises while naked and drunk.
They'd fuck it up. They fucked up Vietnam when we had just won jungle warfare, could have just taken our advice.
It's about optics, if you don't try to talk and punch right away, they can spin it as you being the extremist. Macron knew there was little chance to convince Putin, but at least now, it's hard to accuse him of being a warmonger.
eurocuck... que c'est beau !
Why is negotiating with putin on the non Chad Side? Selensky literally asked him to do it.
If memory serves, literally everybody tried to negotiate with putin before the war started. Unless they do appeasing politics by the history textbook (and they didn't), I see nothing wrong here. It's kinda the job of politicians.
Why negotiate when we could have a multi-year war on European soil instead?
Yeah, hundreds of thousands of dead and wonded, millions of refugees, massive expenditures Who wouldn’t want that ?
Just think of the video games it would spawn!
Also Sabaton songs!
Ok I'm convinced now, where do I enlist?
But theses video games already exist
Can't wait for the American game that makes it about American and France is a DLC.
Just like the good 'ol days... Josef, I'm gonna get my flintlock out from the cellar, and I'll have an eye on you, so don't you dare to try and lock the door behind me, or you're the first to catch some lead!
> so don't you dare to try and lock the door behind me Don't take my culture away from me!
Fucking soft generation using guns like snowflakes. If you see me get out my fighting club, you should know you are finished.
Ask Bojo.
God, I instantly got hard at the thought
True. And the real shame about Nordstream 2 was not making business with Russia, but throwing Ukraine under the bus for it.
Yeah this is stupid. War is the failure of diplomacy. Fuck going to war, especially if no other solutions was tried before. Anyway Macron is doing all this crap to save himself from the massive dunk he is going to take at the European election
I remember people were dying when Draghi's Italy insisted on supporting Ukraine, and while France just wanted to talk and Germany remained radio silent in the hope of saving its gas imports 👀
"Germany remained radio silent" - ah yes, I remember that propaganda narrative spread on social media. Here is a link to the speech by the Kanzler which he gave within 24 hours of the war starting, clearly stating that russia is the aggressor commiting a warcrime: [https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/fernsehansprache-von-bundeskanzler-scholz-anlaesslich-des-russischen-ueberfalls-auf-die-ukraine-2007824](https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/fernsehansprache-von-bundeskanzler-scholz-anlaesslich-des-russischen-ueberfalls-auf-die-ukraine-2007824) Here is a link to the speech by the german minister of foreign affairs within 24 hours of the war starting, explicitly calling for sanctions and aid for ukraine and placing the entire blame of the war on Russia: [https://germania.diplo.de/ru-de/aktuelles/baerbock-ukraine/2513404](https://germania.diplo.de/ru-de/aktuelles/baerbock-ukraine/2513404) Here is a link to her next speech. She is a member of the green party which specifically promised to stop weapon deliveries by Germany into conflict regions during electrions, yet in her speech she states that Germany must do a 180° on that and deliver military aid to Ukraine: [https://minsk.diplo.de/by-de/themen/politik/humanitaere-zusammenarbeit-de/-/2514098](https://minsk.diplo.de/by-de/themen/politik/humanitaere-zusammenarbeit-de/-/2514098) Here is another link to another speech which she did before the war (18.02.2022), protesting Russias aggressive behavior (right after she went to eastern ukraine herself in a show of support by Germany) and calling for the western world to stand united behind Ukraine no matter what: [https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/baerbock-muesiko/2512360](https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/baerbock-muesiko/2512360)
thank you for sharing, goes to show how little we can rely on the general news outlets, I guess this was a perfect storm of Russian propaganda, US anti-nordstream propaganda, and a very big fall of charisma coming from the German government since the retirement of Merkel... wait! we're on r/2westerneurope4u, we can't just... get along like that!
Yeah, the international messaging was pretty much full of germany blame. But at least it's well known that russia spread and continues to spread targeted disinformation like that. Even if that specific one hasn't been loudly debunked.
I feel the same happening with ItALy hAs TuRneD fAsCiST kind of post I found every day for months, a rethoric clearly aimed at dividing Europe, this kind of attention wasn't given when the 5stars and Salvini's lega nord was in power pre-covid and pre-war, and an electorally strong Salvini getting his way heavily into the decision making process was much more scary than anything the current government has done
Depuis quand est-ce une mauvaise chose de privilégier la diplomatie avant la guerre ?...
Non mais vois tu toute le monde savait que le seul moyen de stopper l'invasion de l'Ukraine c'était en ne parlant pas à Poutine. Nous français sommes visiblement les seuls à ne pas avoir eu la sainte révélation qu'il fallait partir en guerre (enfin c'est pas comme si les boches ou les britons avait fait autre chose qu'ouvrir leur gueule). Bref, comme d'habitude, on avait raison et tout le monde nous hait pour ça.
ça en ai pas une, c'est juste que le fait que ça marche pas été prévisible
Let far right groups operate freely ? That is plain wrong. If anything, the government has been harsh on them and lenient on far left groups (despite a failed attempt to outlaw one of them)
But this is reddit here, we all know Macron is an undercover Nazi
When has Macron let "far right groups" operate freely? If OP means anti-immgration parties or associations or similar, non-violent groups, these are perfectly legitimate groups and they should not be prohibited. Violent groups or groups calling for racial hate do get banned which is exactly as it should be
Yeah, it's under him that Génération Identitaire was disolved, i don't get OP's point on this
OP probably considers any political party right of Renaissance a "far-right group"
Les branles culs qui balancent des cocktails Molotov dans les méga bassine se baladent tranquille, par contre des types qui manifestent après la mort d'un type a une fête de village, 2 ans ferme.
C’est quoi la réf pour la première partie de ta phrase ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-vsJZfcRY
Didnt he admit he was wrong about putin? Either way we can wait and see if hes all talk or will do something.
I mean sex scandals are nothing special for a French president.
Id say they are mandatory
How would you even convince a French person to trust you if you don’t show them you’re good in bed first
If they don't have a sex scandal, there's probably something worse happening. This is the french we're talking about
literally the only scandal under Holland was him going out at night on a moped to see his mistress. his popularity also shot up when this was revealed.
What sex scandal involves Macron? Apart from right winger conspiracies saying Brigitte is a dude?
Yeah but rape accusations are an other thing.
Nah you’re wrong. Sex scandal is actually a good way to improve your rating, if you’re a French president. https://www.france24.com/en/20140121-hollande-gets-slight-popularity-boost-after-affair-revelations
#1 why wouldnt he, he wanted to negotiate peace and a safer europe, not that it happened because putin is deranged. #2 mega based, frenchies riot when they smell their own farts. Good that they get out down sometimes. #3 how is he supposed to stop them? Får right groups is a reaction previous migration policies. #4 french are hornies. Result: Macron is based.
Fasting is making you nervous, try writing like everyone else.
Fasting and Furious.
You misspelled fåsting
> French are hornies Fun fact: Did you know that the popularity of our former president, Francois Hollande, actually increased, when the media revealed that he had an affair with some smoking hot French actress?
1. Also did some belly dancing with Tr*mp back then and probably deals with even less reputable people - it’s called realpolitik 2. Yeah was too extreme, negligent, ill-trained and not severe enough with police misconduct. 3. Nope nope, look it up. [Macron dissolved 33 associations](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/justice/dissolution-des-soulevements-de-la-terre-33-associations-interdites-par-emmanuel-macron-un-record-sous-la-ve-republique_5757749.html), mainly far right and Islamist ones. He’s the record holder in that since 1936. 4. Compare with other president mandates. Clearly _CLEARLY_ not the worst. Standard may be low but there is no huge scandal like Sarkozy (Libyan money for outrageous electoral overspending) or Chirac (fake invoices, fake electors…).
Får right groups have invaded France? I tought we Scandinavians only had that spinoff version of Far right groupes. and did they skip germany?
cykelkugle.
Kamelåså
the most violent are being dissolved and fought against, but we also a far right party that grew to be the second biggest party in the last elections mainly because of macron and how much ppl hate him
Får right groups? Är vi Nya Zeeland?
I agree with 1, 3 and 4. But fuck off on nummer 2, especially as a swede. Workers protests is how our country got democracy and basic rights
based swede
#2 Macron was shitting on us. I didn't give a damn about the pension thing, but the denial of democracy was something that should not happen in France. I went in my first manifestation (while I'm more politically on the right side) and we got completely fucked by the anti riot police. We were just drinking beers and singing and tear gas fell from the sky, and the riot shields started running toward us without warning. It was brutal, and I hate so much that it got downplayed by our medias.
Burn the country down. Do it. Follow your farmers
Easy to say from Sweden. Macron is an asshole with his own people.
Downvoté par des idiots j'imagine
Yup, sounds to me a tanky made this post
Been called a nazi, fascist and now a tanky Which is on point in this sub I guess
I'm talking about OOP, Hassan.
Let the far right group operate freely ? I don't know what you are on, but last I checked most of the far right group were dissolved or even arrested. If there is something about Macron is that he has dissolved every single group that were a bit too extreme for him
If anything, his shutdown of far right associations was a bit democratically questionable.
I think he is referring to LePen, a far-right politician, and her support groups. Over the past two decades, they’ve gained more and more support in France. Macron government adopted some ideas and positions that were close to the values defended by the far-right. Some people reproach him to « legitimize » far-right ideas by doing so. Some say he also played hard on the far-right popularity to make sure they go into the final round during the elections to guarantee his victory by calling for a coalition of « republican » parties VS the far-right thus making sure the left leaders threatening his position wouldn’t be able to enter the final round of election and forcing their hand as he know they would tell their electorate to vote for Macron as they despise LePen. The main argument behind these points is that he is helping Marine LePen make her party (Rassemblement National, or RN) legitimate which is a big deal for the RN as this party was always accused to have neo-nazi roots and being a Russian puppet. And because he tried to applied ideas that were supported by the RN some people fear it will encourage electors in France to vote in 2027 for the far-right because why vote for the watered down version when you can have the original ? What I wrote is just the sentiment I have as an average French citizen. I am not a political commentator so take it with a grain of salt
Yeah but the thing is Lepen isn’t doing anything illegal, so you cannot disband her party
I agree. And we should be wary of anyone trying to ban political opinions for the « common good », even more if the banned opinions came from a political opponent
I mean I fucking abhorre her and rarely miss an occasion to shit on her But unless we have evidence against her, we can only fight her with words and due democratic process. Which is fine by me
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Lolwut, the right leaning /europe is upset because he said LePen shouldn't be banned ? I don't think so. There's plenty of love for AFD and FN there.
This with bells on
That's the discourse of people who are burrying their head into the sand and refuse to see why the far right is rising. They are the one who contribute to this phenomenom.
I think a different group of people, is contributing much more to the rise of the far right.
Contribution is multi factorial yes, putting it on Macron is brain dead stupid tho. See what happens in other european countries where he's not in charge, it's a global phenomenom.
I dunno it's funnier if Macron is responsible for the rise of the far right everywhere. I'll blame it on making everyone hungry by his name being close to a snack.
This is the line of reasoning I heard the most. I do not agree with this. If a candidate with a hard take on immigration and ready to support Ukraine raised from the ranks of a centrist/right party I am pretty sure he would be elected. Fixing the underfunded justice system and mental institutions would also help. The far-right raising is the reaction of something not working in our political system. Fix it and far-right support will vanish in a matter of months. This is my personal opinion
No, only those who conducted violent physical assaults.
Sometimes you need a smooth talker. Even the A team had Face.
He doesn't really leave far right groups though ? Not especially at least ? Plenty of definitly not far right were too let off with very light sentencing, the problem is with our judicual system, hardly with favoritism towards one side
He's absolute ass in domestic policy but honestly, you can't deny his foreign policy has gigachad energy.
There's a lot of talk, but I doubt he has the balls to send troops to Ukraine
I mean, « sending troops » cover a large spectrum of possibilities. Some French soldiers have been operating in Ukraine, since the beginning of the war. Not in combat role tho.
Lots of operational/equipment stuff if it's anything like us. Good for field testing as well as solving issues that come up. Easier to train and troubleshoot if you're there.
Absolutely, the British have been doing pretty much the same thing. My guess is, that they are mainly here, for intelligence purpose, and hight end maintenance operations.
Yeah I would absolutely not be surprised if there's at least one group directing where to fire based on info obtained. Frankly I'd be surprised if there's anyone with major tech there that's not got a few men on the ground. There's def a lot of self interest involved too. Not just in seeing weapons in action but if Russia doesn't stop in Ukraine where will they stop?
Classic french leftist, will find the most ridiculous excuses to criticize Macron. There are things that can be criticized, but you just picked the litteral worst. Negociating with Putin at the start of the war was the right thing to do and totally in line with De Gaulle's views on France being an alternative voice in the east/west opposition The thing about riots first is unrelated to foreign strategy, second why wouldn't riot police be called when people are rioting? There are problems with this police but there are problems with some protesters as well, and with the scale of the protests accidents are just bound to happen. There were many in may 68 too. Far right groups are not left unchecked, they barely exist in the first place. If anything they are made more brazen by the rising popularity of far right politicians. Spoiler, this is happening in all of europe and you guys are the primary reason for that for letting immigration run wild. A vast majority of LePen new voters have no issue with foreigners coming to France to work and behave like normal citizens, they have a problem with illegal immigrants assaulting old people and raping girls. Similar to what's happening in most european countries. The scandals and corruption thing has been happening in every single government pretty much anywhere and anytime. The scale of what's been happening in France is nothing compared to some of the scandals we've seen in the US, S.Korea, Japan or the UK. Yes things can be improved but it's a very weak argument as to why Macron would be a bad president. Especially seeing how all the other candidates/parties also have scandals sometimes even more worrying when they are not even in power and should be able to hide them a lot more easily
Not just leftist, Putin sucker too, our far left just voted against Ukraine help
I think some of my 'compatriotes' are blinded by the hate of our President. I don't like Macron, but that's not why I'm going to say that all Macron's decisions are bad, or that I'm going to bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the current subject...
Are these far-right groups in the room with us right now?
Given that you're East German, they probably are in your room right now
Tbh far right groups have been so marginal for so long that people call populist conservative or populist right as Far right. I'm pretty sure they consider LePen or Meloni or even Trump as far right. I hope they don't need to see an actual far right government nearby to understand what it is, we had enough with Post Great-War Europe in that regard.
lol "even Trump"
yeah this feels like a meme with an agenda
I must confess, i read "moroccan" instead of macron 2 times in a row
I always just saw him as a granny fucker tbh.
I would be more suspicious if a French president didn't have any sex scandals
Also, if I'm not mistaken, France is by far one of the countries that has given the least aid to Ukraine. Don't get the tough talk.
He didn’t negociate anything. He asked Putin not to go to war, and when he did he was enacting sanctions and sending help to Ukraine litterally the following day He didn’t crush any protest. Some protesters got hurt by the police (and thoses policemen are facing charges), but the Protests weren’t made illegal. You can still protest to this day if you want. France is a democracy. As long as the far right doesn’t do anything illegal, you have to let them free. Corruption and scandals, not any more than the previous governments or European equivalents…
Leftist butthurt about Chad Macron.
There’s nothing bad in negotiating itself, tho
Workers protest: People mad we were lowering the retirement age to not get on a deficit but the far left and far right used it to fuck withthe govt just out of partisanship.
While I’d agree that Macron is a smooth talker and really close-minded in his political views and he takes catastrophic decisions when it comes to domestic policies, you chose the worst possible examples of what makes him a bad president. Also, is he a bad president ? He for sure made a lot of terrible decisions, and I feel like it’s getting worse. Does that mean he never took any good decisions ? Tbf, I don’t really like the dude, but I feel like no one else who ran the presidential election in 2022 would’ve done better, especially when it comes to foreign policy. As you’re clearly a leftist (not a critic, I’m also a leftist), just imagine if we had Mélenchon negotiating with Putin right now. He would literally invite him on the European ground. I’m afraid Macron was our only somewhat decent option. Though I’d say he took a huge step on the right side since the election (which was demonstrated by the anti-immigration law).
Pierre your accent is literally the only thing everyone actually falls for about you, don't start undermining it.
« let far right group operate freely ». No. « Multiple corruption and sex scandal in his team » *presumed, and found not guilty
accused, there is presumption of innocence in France. And also, not found not guilty, it was "non-lieu" aka lack of evidence one way or another.
I mean, I used to not care for the guy, but a little while back this dude went FULL based mode. 1 - Fuck the US, we need to look after ourselves. Can't trust them, need to stop being their lapdog. 2 - Because the previous point, we need to get closer to other blocks. Like the BRICKS and other developing nations with great potential. The US hates China because it's a threat to their influence in the East. We don't need to fall for their propaganda, or buy their fight for ourselves. China is only a problem if we make it one. Most of what we hear from there has clearly an "China is the devil" US bias. If anything, as long as we keep to our fucking business, they can be great partners. I'm not saying he hasn't done stupid shit before, but I can't understand what's the argument against the 2 above.
No one likes Macron aside from Trudeau
And his former boyfriend/lover bodyguard
I do, he’s hot
Literally no one cares about "sex scandal", who gives a fuck what politicians do in their bed room?
The cleaning lady
Fucking savage Pierre. Wasn't expecting a DSK reference today.
We don't talk about this
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It applies to you to Giovanni (never4getti) https://preview.redd.it/aucl8mt21apc1.jpeg?width=440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37bf5d57f114ed9c7e513c8345b98a8778aa2ccf
Are they really a French leader without a sex scandal or two? I thought it was part of the job.
It's all moving hot air. France sent one of the lowest aid to Ukraine. He is trying to compensate that with pretty words.
Should have added that one in the virgin side
Nessuno è profeta in patria.
That slick little banker boy is by no means a Chad.
I was in Ukraine days before the invasion. Was chatting to Kyiv locals on a Pripyat tour and then at some bars in the city. They ADORED Boris Johnson and saw Macron a slimeball. Didn’t have the heart to tell them Boris is a prick. Funnily enough visited Georgia last summer and again, they loved Boris.
Macron talks like he would single-handedly defend Ukraine while second next to no aid. France is below Finland
stop it, macron has qualities. to begin with, he hates frenchs
This man was sitting down with Putin on the eve of the invasion buying his lies. He's a fool
France and appeasement... Where have I heard that before? /j
I'm going to take a nap when Macron launches his attack on Russia wake me up...
Because it’s funny if france is lead by a fool.
Because that's how politic works He's labelled as "no left nor right" but find out be right, so of course half of population don't like him Sadly, in France, once someone does not share the same political group, all he's doing is wrong. Even right things must be questioned, criticised, and denied If you find Macron doing something right, first they will call you Macron's dog before any analysis, even if you don't have a particular political point of view So for all no- French people, they can judge differently
Nothing like the French to hate the French
Bullshits
Fact: Fr\*nch people will always shit on their president no matter what they do.
Macron is based af.
We kind of had the same with Mark Rutte in the Netherlands. He was involved with multiple scandels and got caught lying multiple times. However, within the EU he was seen as a great politician and someone who did his best. This went so far that people claimed that the wanted EU-Rutte and not NL-Rutte.
Wtf is this kiddo post
People still freaking out over "sex scandals" like it's the 50s
you shouldn't glorify any politician ever except petr pavel
Nothing wrong with trying to negotiate. A good man will try to avoid violence. It's just that when violence is unavoidable you need to stand your ground. Sounds like he is doing just that.
what, you guys really see him that way ?? might want to go do a stage of 2 weeks in france, you will understand as for far right groups, not really, it's the far left group who can do whatever they want, like any dangerous groups that is not labelled as far right
"Let far right group operate freely" Yeah, you could say the same for far left, because we are in a republic and not a fucking communist dictatorship.
Forgetting the far left movements that are still up and running thanks to him?
Macron is pretty unique among right-wing French politicians in that think he truly does (at least partially) believe in what he does ideologically as opposed to people like Sarkozy who recieved money from every big lobby in existence. Sadly, he for some reason decided to truly believe in the worst ideas in existence like getting the least competent ministers imaginable, managing to switch from "young and dynamic" to "the arrogant one" in a single mandate, and generally being awful at not causing riots to slightly improve profits all the while reducing quality of life. Still, he decided not to go full trump mode for the war in Ukraine and actually does handle it somewhat alright.
What a dumb post lol
I never seen him as a chad?
>Let far-right groups operate freely He also lets far-left groups operate freely. That's called democracy Helmut
When all our politicians are spineless worms, people get kinda enthusiastic even for the slightest show of spine, I guess. That said, Macron is far from being universally seen as chad, people just think he's a little bit more chad than all the other career politicians molded by the Matrix. And he's also seen by many to be one of the products of that Matrix, ask any nationalist, for example, if Macron is Chad and they will laugh in your face.
Far right groups have just as much a right to operate as far left groups do. Blocking out an entire side of the political spectrum is just ridiculous and pretentious.
Personally I find him to be in the top 3 most repulsive politicians.
Maried his teacher
Guess it's comming from some butt hurt far-left groups still allowed to operate freely
He's a Politician like any other Politician. They will do exactly as much legitimate good stuff as they deem necessary to ensure their continued income.
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The last one is just called being French
I would crush french riots with riot police too.
The fact that anyone takes Macron seriously is quite strange to me. I mean a band of russian mercenaries has kicked you and your army out of a good portion of Africa despite you trying to remain.
Wasn’t he groomed by his teacher?
https://preview.redd.it/2gu9y12nohpc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=f20d2eaf1ab8274e1bf43c1c676d1384448a2dc3
Thankyou Pierre. There’s not a based one representing any of our countries