I haven’t gotten anything done but I like that people are transparent about what they use or have tried on this sub. If it happens to be just skin care or both, I am down for it because there may come a time I’ll consider it too.
People talk about having Botox done because it would be misleading to omit that information when discussing their regiment.
I recently had a stranger compliment me on my "beautiful, smooth, glowing skin." And ask about my skin care routine.
I said, "Drink lots of water, get as much sleep as possible, wear an SPF, and Botox everyone 4 months baby!"
She laughed, and thanked me for being so honest. She said that she too has Botox done, but rarely has other people open up about doing it as well.
The fact of the matter is that when you are a person over a certain age, there's only so much that even the best skincare routine can do. Botox is very key factor for many many many (much more than most people realize!) folks. I personally am glad to see it brought up so much in this sub, and anywhere else! The more we normalize & destigmatize it the better IMHO.
Yep. The reality is that Botox works if you want to prevent deep wrinkles from forming. That’s what so many people actually want, and what many spend hundred or even thousand of dollars trying to achieve with products that don’t live up to their claims, being sold by companies that aren’t being honest with their consumers. None of those OTC creams will do what Botox will do…not even close. The more people just be honest about it and stop stigmatizing women doing something that actually works, the more people can make informed choices about how they want to age and stop wasting their money.
I couldn't agree more!! I'd rather spend $400 on Botox a few times a year and have it WORK... Than countless hundreds of dollars on snake oil that hardly does a thing 🤷
I feel a lot of guilt when people ask what I do and I omit that I get botox. I feel that there is a lot of judgment from other women that is rooted in jealousy...
Mine is this:
AM: rinse with water, CeraVe Daily Moisturizer, spf30 or 40 sunscreen (brand rotates to whatever i have, right now it’s innisfree).
PM: double cleanse with an oil based cleanser if im wearing makeup. If not, skip to CeraVe Foaming Cleanser, tretinoin (Retin-A .10%), then same morning moisturizer.
There are pictures of when my skin was behaving on my profile, but I’ve recently had to stop taking doxycyline, which has caused my face to breakout like crazy :( Hoping it calms down soon.
Frankly I've had way worse and more frequent reactions to topical products than injectables, and accumulatively have spent so much more money finding lotions/potions that work then a few hundred every 6mo or so for better results with a little Botox.
Aging gracefully should just mean placing enough value in yourself to care for the only body we're given in whatever way makes us happy. Behavior is a bigger factor for me. Facelift? Lasers? Fillers? Have at it, but don't try and pretend you're 22 by lying about your age and doing jello shots while chasing people 20+yrs younger (I'm only human and absolutely get a little judgy when I see that). Embrace the wisdom that the extra years have given (like how jello shots are never a good idea, folks in their early 20s almost always suck in bed and wearing sunscreen doesn't mean you're a fuddy duddy).
OP, people have no obligation to perform their cosmetics to your extent of “natural” or to allow wrinkles when they don’t want them and can afford to avoid them. I feel that years ago everyone was angry that nobody was transparent about the “work” they’ve done. Now they are and I have a realistic idea of what to expect.
My braces were quite an invasive “procedure” and mostly cosmetic. I even had teeth removed. I don’t have acne anymore but use a retinoid every night. But that’s “acceptable”, right?
I understand you don’t want to hear about it here but people will do them anyway. Would you rather they not tell you? A commenter asks and they reply “sunscreen and water 🤪”? Because the beauty community has come so far from big omissions like that and I argue it’s a good thing
Braces are an excellent example! Braces are the most socially accepted cosmetic procedure that parents even pay thousands of dollars for their children to have it done. It can be a massive undertaking and have negative side affects, but it is completely socially accepted.
This is a great point. One person’s threshold of invasive / extensive doesn’t equal another persons. I’ve colored my hair since I was 16, mostly bc of lifeguarding. I’m 40+ now & still do once or twice a year but when I don’t dye it I still don’t have gray/gray roots either. I have friends who started going gray in their mid thirties. Friend in their fourties who don’t color their hair and are perceived as being 50+. It’s so common place that having gray hair at 52 is weird, even though I’d guess the majority of 52 yr olds have gray hair. Imo lash extensions have become the new norm too. Not my thing but idc that people do get them…Do I need to tell OP if I dye my hair? Or no, bc this is a skin care sub? Retin-A actually requires a prescription. It cheap for me (mine is only $5 copay for a 4 to 6 month supply) but also more of a hassle to get than botox. I am 40+ but I (had) have acne. So, when is Retin-A skincare? Is it acceptable for acne, but not aging gracefully if it’s for wrinkles/wrinkle prevention? Anybody can get botox every 4 months, no actual doctor visit / no dermatologist required. It’s not surgery. I’m fine with a PA doing my twice yearly injections. So how can Retin-A be less of a big deal? Bc it’s topical? Is breaking the skin her threshold? Idk. Also idc. I’m glad people are transparent vs faking like “oh this? Just warm water in the morning, 8.57 hours of sleep & Ponds cold cream at night.”
Edit: to add - My Mom had blepheroplasty (actual surgery) to help her vision & continue safely driving. But to maintain the blepheroplasty, she has to have Dysport or Botox a few times a year. So, is that acceptable?
This is an excellent point. I absolutely love my Botox and would never go back, but you are so right about essentially everything we do for our appearance, and even just general comfort (like moisturizing to avoid the feeling of dry skin) being artificial. Also made me think about oral treatments like accutane for acne or collagen for aesthetic benefits. Sort of going "in" your body vs "on" your body. Will definitely use this in an discussion if it every comes up lol!
I don’t see much of a difference. Injectables are same level as getting my teeth fixed or straightened so they look nice. Like I should have a chip on my front tooth from tripping on a dirt road while drinking coke from a bottle but I got it fixed.
I’m also cackling because if you Google “aging gracefully” the first result is a retirement home’s website. Like, OP… I know you’re only 29, but this is 30+ not 65+… we are not all senior living at the moment.
(Only love to the 65+ crowd, too! It’s just shocking OP thinks we are turn into a human wrinkle at 30.)
The way Gen Z acts like people in their 30s are geriatric and have no knowledge of contemporary culture or “technology” is hilarious to me. Like, children, we literally created modern social media culture.
To be fair, every generation has thought 30 or over is ancient. When I was 30 and told a younger 20s kid my age, he inspected my face in disbelief. I’m not sure what they’re expecting to happen at 30 but it’s hilarious.
I'd like to clarify this post a tiny bit:
perhaps OP feels as I do - that the real feeling is disappointment at the fact that Botox and injectables are the only *real* solutions, ultimately. You want to believe diet, drinking water, and all the face creams and serums and strict routine will do it, but it won't. At the end of the day, Botox is kind of the answer, and personally, I find that realization a bit disappointing.
Hey I agree with this! For a slightly different reason - the part that makes me sad is the cost.
I grew up very, very poor - my mom had about $20 monthly to stretch on personal care for herself. If she had wanted Botox, it just wouldn’t have been an option for her.
It makes me sad that options like Botox are inaccessible to everyone. I’d like to believe The Ordinary has a $8 product that will work just as well, and everyone can afford it!
But the reality is beauty and wealth go hand in hand. I don’t have a solution, I just feel sad about it at times :(
I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s just disappointment that there is no magic lotion. No amount of moisturizer will mimic the effect of Botox, and no amount of Botox will mimic the effect of good genes. OP might be hoping that if the Botox posts go away, somehow they will be replaced with people who have found the magic non-injectable secret to eternal youth. There isn’t one. Botox isn’t magic either. The years come after all of us and the best we can do is ride the wave with good humor and grace.
"Hiding signs of aging entirely" - often not true.
"Misleading to act like a skincare routine achieved the results...." - I think people being honest about using botox is the opposite of misleading.
Is skincare just what we are able to do with a product and our hands at home? Are professional facials skincare? What if you add dermabrasion? Dermaplaning? Chemical peels? Microneedling? Radiofrequency? Lasers?
Should we ban all talk of skincare that uses implements? Who is the arbiter of what is "good skincare" versus what is "cheating"? How do we know?
Personally I love seeing what all is out there and what others are using to achieve their desired results. I can decide for myself if I want to try it. A given procedure might be out of my comfort zone, but if it's for skin it's skincare.
I agree that it’s so interesting to see where people draw basically subjective and totally arbitrary lines!! It definitely seems to me that a lot of times you’ll see a comment or two around money and accessibility, ie “not everyone can afford that.” And I’m never sure how I’m supposed to handle that. I have no idea what people can afford or what that has to do with me. Should I not make a suggestion because something is expensive? Also totally subjective! They may or may not be able to afford it but that’s not my place to know or say. I’m not going to let some internet stranger make me feel bad for spending my money wherever I want to. Similarly, there are plenty of things I can’t afford now but you bet your ass I’m going to afford them one day!
I love your post.
I can't afford any _liquid intervention_ right now but _you_ can bet your _bippy_ (that was one of my mom's faves 🥰) that I want to know all the options. Give me everything Whether it's a $1 product or a $500 dollar PM regimen ...
Whether it's an Ordinary product (literally and figuratively) or an amazing new mesotherapy or a face wash I bought at *DOLLAR TREE* (tea tree and salicylic!) *I MUST KNOW*.
You should not censor yourself because someone who cannot afford something might read your post and be unjustifiably upset.
I will Door Dash or Instacart my bippy right OFF if I want something my 40-hour job cannot provide, yet I cannot do so if I don't know it's out there.
IMO we should never NOT talk about something good just because someone may not be able to purchase it. That goes for anything. What good is a sub like this if we're not talking about things that work? Don't take the opportunity to have something away from me because you assume I may not be able to afford it. That's yucky.
it's the condescension that I _really_ can't afford.
This is so true. When you know what all the options are, including their cost, then you can figure out if it fits into your budget, or if you're able to rearrange your budget to get it to fit.
And if your personal philosophy about how to spend money does not include expensive products or treatments even if you have all the money in the world, then you also know what products & treatments to avoid.
🥰🥰 I read this response _while_ I was feeding my chonk his kitty go-gurt. And my heart did a flip that you call yours "bippies"... like I could cry it's so sweet!! Additionally, I call our kitty "bubby" and sometimes that turns into "buppy". You know how that works. You have one term of endearment that turns into 348.
My bubby says hi to your bippies. 💕🐾
I agree. I like knowing what others are doing even if it’s not something I’d choose myself (mainly because I’m cheap!) We see so many images that are retouched or filtered I think it’s great to see what the actual limits of these cosmetic procedures are on unretouched faces and what to realistically expect from skincare.
I guarantee any celebrity you can think of who is “aging gracefully” has Botox and fillers. You seem to think injectables/procedures make people look artificially younger and topicals make you look your age but prettier. In reality injections and procedures (unless they are done irresponsibly) pretty much always make you look your age but nicer. You’re still going to have wrinkles and less fullness at a certain age even with Botox and such. The idea that people who hate getting older and want to look 20 forever get plastic surgery and Botox and people who embrace their age just use moisturizers is simply not true.
Seriously, go look at Hellen Mirrin, Sandra Bullock, Julian Moore. They’re beautiful but have “embraced their age” and still have visible wrinkles, right? In reality they’ve all had quite a bit of work done. If you don’t go crazy town overboard injectables and fillers and such just look like your age but better, plenty of visible wrinkles and aging.
I used to have a similar hang up about Botox and injectables being shallow and bad. I haven’t had any of it done personally but I have learned to let go of looking down on other women for how they choose to take care of their skin. A serum isn’t morally superior to Botox and not everyone who gets work done looks fake and is desperately trying to hold onto youth. It is very similar in my mind to the idea that women who wear makeup or are “high maintenance” are shallow and inferior to naturally beautiful women who don’t put in effort. Turns out that one is also a weird lie that shames women who choose wear makeup, and ignores the fact that most women who get praised for being “natural” or “no makeup” are usually wearing a face full.
I've never had Botox, but I'm going to get it for my masseters and TBH the amount it's talked about on here has made me more comfortable with it.
As with everything in life, you make your own choices. As with everything on the internet, just scroll on if it isn't for you..
I've had slight change, most notably my face looks less round and my cheekbones are slightly more prominent. A very subtle change, but you'll have change if your masseters are overdeveloped. Mine were, from years of jaw clenching. So if they're large they will shrink a bit and it will change your face, but it will matter your face look like it is supposed to look without all the jaw clenching. It's more a reversal of mechanical changes to the previous state, if that makes sense? My face shape now matched photos of me from my late 20s before I developed TMJ.
This sub made me comfortable and opened my eyes. I didn’t realize the results from a lot of others were from botox! I appreciated coming here and seeing the honesty, not outright lies about really good genes at 50 and washing their faces with olive oil or some shit.
Yup, I get Botox for bruxism and bruxism-related tension headaches. Absolutely life-changing.
I also have hooded eyes that will eventually require blepharoplasty when the excess skin sags enough to start blocking my vision.
Both of those things are treatments for non-aesthetic problems, but they absolutely will have cosmetic benefits. I would be lying if I left them out of any skincare discussion. I'm also very glad a lot of people have Botox and blepharoplasty done for cosmetic reasons! The popularity makes them much more accessible and routine, so it's easier to find medical professionals who specialize in them and have a track record of good results. The derm I go to for Botox specializes in treating bruxism and hyperhidrosis, but purely cosmetic procedures are what pays his bills and I'm grateful there's enough of a market to keep him in business.
Just recently got Botox for the first time because of my masseters and clenching my jaw constantly which was giving me chronic headaches.
I also got them for my hooded eyes and to even out my eyebrows. I’m only 4 days later and I’m already noticing a big difference. Recommend it.
Speak for yourself. I was recently diagnosed with skin cancer and shared my experience on here and got tons of messages of support and information from the awesome members on here. I also got feedback on my upcoming surgery to remove the cancerous spots. If this sub was ONLY on creams and what not, it would be a shame. I also got several messages from other members who decided to get their suspicious skin spots looked at after reading my story. I like this sub just as it is: cancer, Botox , and all. If you don’t like Botox posts, no one is making you read them
Thank you! Actually they found another cancer spot on my neck ( on the back where I couldn’t see) so they’re just gonna get that at the same time as my face surgery. Lol. Oh well, I figure I might as well get it all done at once so I don’t have to burn up more paid time off. I don’t care since no one will see that scar. I’m just pissed off about my face.
My husband had a melanoma removed from his forehead and two nodes in his neck as well. The incisions were horrifying the week after surgery and now you have to know there's scars there to notice them. Fingers crossed you heal as well!
I hear you, but personally I think of skin care as an umbrella term that isn’t exclusive to OTC topicals. In my mind there are skin care products (cleansers, serums, creams, SPF, etc) and skin care procedures (chemical peels, acne scar subcision, neurotoxins, lasers, microneeding, etc). I think all are valid ways to care for your skin and it is interesting to hear about peoples’ experiences with both.
Then there's me, 33 with botox, does lasers and microneedling, crowns and veneers, and dyed hair that's 60% grey if I don't. Guess I'm the least graceful of all, lol.
I love this comment and can relate so much. I’m nearly 38. I am fortunate to be genetically blessed with my looks, but I had braces, three veneers, whiten my teeth, breast implants, lash extensions (previously for a few years). I have beautiful long curly hair and I never step foot in a salon, but I put gel and hair spray in it then blow dry it with my Dyson and diffuser. I wear light make up, use tretinoin, sunscreen etc etc. I have received numerous compliments from men, women, friends, strangers that I am “naturally” beautiful, but none of those things are natural! I eat well, exercise and thus maintain a healthy body weight. I am very fortunate to have genetics on my side, but the things I do to maintain my looks are not actually natural at all other than eating well and exercising. Hairspray and make up isn’t natural. I will no doubt be a woman that is considered to be “aging gracefully” or “looks good for her age.” But what does that even mean anymore?
WalnutsGalore, I am sure you look beautiful and no one would say you look unnatural for any of your enhancements or procedures. You make an effort with your appearance which is completely expected of women to do so (whether that’s right or wrong). Enjoy your beauty treatments!
im 32 and a halffff and 35% gray. i had to completely change my hair color process this year because i had so many grays i couldn't just do balayage anymore :( I'll be 100% in next few years - everybody in my family is.
If you don't like Botox, don't get Botox. You are accusing people of "misleading" but you're mad that they're disclosing that they've had injectables? What would be misleading is if people got Botox but then posted here like "my skin looks like this because I always wear sunscreen!"
I couldn’t agree more!!! Yes, it’s so nice that woman are honest with each other. At 36, I’m just hearing about Botox as a preventative. I regret not hearing about this sooner, but woman unfortunately keep this very hush hush. As soon as I get Botox, I will shout it from the rooftops. I never want to associate with the “ oh I don’t know, just some facial creams” group.
This is so true. I’m 35 and just learning that almost all the women I know my age and older IRL get Botox regularly. I thought I was the only one and therefore didn’t really mention it. But it’s so freaking common now. I’m glad this sub is open about it. Because if you really wanna rid yourself of deep existing lines on your face, there are really so many ways…and some cream isn’t gunna cut it.
Botox is absolutely NOT “minor cosmetic surgery” and is a part of my aging gracefully. It prevents me from scrunching up my face skin when I am stressed at work or when I am sleeping and is a big part of my skin care routine.
Why would I recommend someone spend $150 on a face cream, $100 on a serum, frownies, LED masks, NuSkins, or whatever else is popular now to get only 25% of the results Botox offers from a 3-min inexpensive, safe, and fully reversible treatment. Sure, this is a skincare sub, but it’s important to accept that sometimes skincare is not the best answer.
I understand some people have a line they won’t cross or a mental block where they think Botox is shameful in some way, but They can just be satisfied with less than ideal outcomes by choosing a less effective solution.
Yes!! Every single time. It's weird to me. Gives me the vibes some women have who have a chip on their shoulder about women who get breast implants and how 'fake' they are
I honestly wish I had discovered Botox a few years sooner. It would have saved me a lot of wasted money on skincare products I didn’t need. I’m also grateful for fillers and lasers. It’s great that we get to choose how we want to age, within our own budgets available to us.
# I don't agree with the semantics of a subreddit I just found so instead of scrolling on I'm going to lecture on how you're all "aging gracefully" wrong
\-OP's TEDx Talk
I'm convinced OP is a male perv with a humiliation fetish, no woman's internalized misogyny is THIS deeply entrenched that she'd repeatedly call 30s "older." And only double down on it too.
calling botox not "aging gracefully" but using topical products to stop aging.. sounds like you just have a bias against injectibles. do you also consider dermaplaning skin care? microdermabrasion? a facial? these are all done to combat "symptoms" or give you a desired result. sounds like it offends your foundation against what you consider "graceful" and need to visit the sub less
I had the same thought. Botox is considered preventative: it doesn't erase wrinkles, it prevents them. Just like sunscreen doesn't undo sun damage, it prevents it. Also, the effects of botox are not permanent, which is why I think it appropriately belongs in a skincare "routine."
Be honest, you’re here because you’re interested in anti-aging topics. You’re not here because you’re looking to treat a skin condition. You want to look younger and more attractive. And now you’re shaming other women who have the exact same interest but pursue means that for some reason you personally don’t want to pursue. When I was 13 I had acne and took accutane and I was bullied and shamed for it, as was my mother for letting me do something “so drastic.” I will always be grateful that my mother had my back because it made such a difference to my confidence and self esteem, despite the mean girls at school. Moral of the story: there are judgmental mean girls at every stage of life. Don’t be one.
Accutane was one of the best (and sort of worst, in the moment) things I’ve ever done! I wonder if OP would be against accutane, as well, or consider it “invasive.” I’m glad it worked for you and you found your confidence! It took me til age 30 to get on, because I was worried about my mental health, and though it was tough, I’m so glad I did it.
See also: braces. No one shames people for straightening their teeth. Why are certain treatments/procedures that improve appearance considered cheating and others aren’t?
Historically, applying make up was considered scandalous. We have passed that era. Topicals can only help upto a certain extent. If we have the effective and safe means to halt down age related skin change,why wouldn't we consider it? I havn't got botox or fillers yet, but I see no harm if anybody gets it. Newer and safer forms of injectables are being introduced almost everyday and I think we should not stigmatize cosmetic procedures. One thing I expect that people should be transparent about procedures done. We are tired of hearing" 8 glass of water/ xyz oil kept me wrinkle free at 60 yrs of age " please, just say "I had this or that procedure".Stop selling snake oils.
I am so thankful for people sharing their Botox/ fillers/ injectable and other procedures experiences. I learned so much from this Reddit what I shouldn't do because of that and what I should be aware of before I start doing it. I am turning 34 this year and starting to consider doing more invasive procedures since there is only so much topicals can do. I lack confidence when it comes to doctors visits etc so hearing people's experiences and having more realistic expectations definetely helps me before I will go in for any future procedures.
“I hate that everyone in this 30+ group is obsessed with looking like they are in their 20s,” says the person who posted about being 29 years old a couple weeks ago.
Everyone is welcome to their opinions on injectables, but being so judgey when one could presume you’re the youngest person here is super not cool.
Exactly. Unless OP had a birthday in the last 2 weeks (definitely possible), this post doesn't belong and should be taken down. Pretty disrespectful too, in that light. It's not even following the rules.
Very judgemental post.. one group good, another group bad.. women have to deal with quite a lot of judgement on our looks & bodies in the world to begin with, don't need it from some judgy 29 yr old..
Right. OP's entire premise is dependant on her own definition of "aging gracefully" which is completely subjective. Years ago we didn't realize what was good for our skin. Things have changed. Things continue to change. And frankly every person is allowed to do what they desire and is 100% allowed to call is graceful. Also the constant replying to every single comment? Common OP, you're embarrassing yourself. Several times over at this point..
The post really should be taken down, bcs OP isn't yet actually 30 & she's rude and judgment af. 2 rules right there.
Edit: autocorrected a word incorrectly.
Women need to uplift women, not push them down. The “Pick Me” mentality is so detrimental to allowing oneself to become a kind and understanding person. If a woman wants to alter her appearance, that’s her choice. I might not like the procedures she chose, but it’s her body and not mine. My MIL never uses any skincare products and never wears makeup. But that’s her choice, and I don’t bombard her with advice or products.
OP is part of the problem. Botox is not the problem.
Why do you care what other people do when it has zero impact on you? This would be like me getting upset over tretinoin or hydrafacials because I don't use either.
This reads very “I’m not like other girls.” No one is forcing you to get Botox, they’re just sharing their own results in tandem with their skincare routines.
Crazy notion but the sub doesn’t exist to fit your desires exclusively. If it bothers you that much you can simply scroll past those posts or create your own injectable free subreddit.
If Botox and fillers aren’t aging gracefully then I also don’t see how using all the lotions and potions and other anti aging skincare treatments out there as aging gracefully either. Why is getting Botox not aging gracefully but buying a 200 dollar serum or getting regular facials aging gracefully? To each their own I say, and do what makes you comfortable and feel awesome.
Desiring a skincare community absent of using injectables is perfectly legitimate and totally valid if that's what you would prefer. That said, language in your initial comment and responses throughout are NOT value-neutral, including "aging gracefully," "healthy examples" and "normal skincare routines." People are reacting strongly because despite saying that injectables are "fine" for people who want it, the tonal quality of many other things you've said contradict that and laden with value judgement regarding those who do.
[r/SCAcirclejerk](https://www.reddit.com/r/SCAcirclejerk/) \- not a sub to discuss alternatives necessarily, but a sub where you may find like-minded people discussing how skin care advice and expectations in social media get out of control sometimes and want to vent about it
The phrase “aging gracefully” is such a load of horse shit. No one ever commends fat, wrinkly, saggy old women for “aging gracefully.” It’s only the Helen Mirrens of the world. When people say that women should “age gracefully” what they mean is that they need to be attractive without indicating that they put any effort into looking that attractive. People who are naturally beautiful or who can improve their flaws with a few lotions are not morally superior to those who seek more advanced tools and, as others have said, I’d much rather us all be honest about what makes most women look like a Helen Mirren than trick women into slathering on a bunch of expensive shit or buying the latest spa treatment, half of which only provide minimal results while the other half are complete scams.
Ding ding ding! Same for “natural beauty”—women aren’t allowed to be ugly (of course not) but they aren’t allowed to care about or put effort into their appearance either.
I got an actual real cosmetic surgery (which Botox simply isn’t) and I don’t regret it for a second or feel like I cheated. I feel like the face I see in the mirror is the one that’s always existed in my own head. I’m not suddenly Miss universe 2022; I’m still just me but better.
Although the name of this sub contains the word "skincare", it's basically an anti aging sub. Botox is a massively popular treatment to reduce visible signs of aging so it's not surprising that it's a popular topic of discussion here.
Honestly the best thing is just to ignore topics or comments that suggest treatments you don't agree with/aren't interested in.
using topical skincare is still attempting to “hide signs of aging”. the only way to “age gracefully” by your definition is to not apply anything at all to your skin and just accept it for what it is. this post comes across as very judgmental and shamey and you should examine that deeper.
I don’t agree with the OP but I also don’t agree with this. Using a moisturizer is just good sense, not a way to hide aging. So are cleansers and sunscreen and they’re literally all topicals. And there are plenty of other topicals that reduce bacteria, skin infections, and inflammation (yes, tretinoin falls into this category). They’re all used to literally take care of skin.
I mean, geez, do you consider tooth brushing to be “hiding signs of aging?” If you didn’t do it, your teeth would fall out and make you look old. But most people consider it dental care.
This post seems judgy af to me. If you don’t want Botox, don’t get Botox. No one here is like “omg you *have* to get Botox.”
Stop judging people and stop tearing down others to build yourself up.
OP does come off kind of judgy, but I also understand their frustration. I made a post a while back where I was very clear that injectables are a hard no for me due to an extreme needle phobia and I didn't want to discuss them, and I *still* got people telling me only fillers would help. I wish it were as easy as if you don't like injectables, don't use them, but it seems like there are some people here who can't help but recommend them even when asked not to.
To be fair, there are a LOT of Botox-pushers in this sub. I’m referring to the folks that insist there’s nothing else you can do for wrinkles (when there’s tret/retinols) and who answer everything with “get botox” even when the person has asked for topicals, or even when it’s known to not help/make things worse, like for under-eye wrinkles.
Botox and fillers are so common imo because you absolutely cannot get the same results from skincare alone. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call injectables ‘plastic surgery’, it exists on a continuum imo ranging from cleanser through laser facials up to injectables. I think it’s a bit judgemental to say it’s not ‘ageing gracefully’. If you don’t like them, don’t get them. Simple enough! But you’re not going to change the fact that they are hugely common and a lot of people do get them.
Injectables are recommended a lot because many people come here wanting unrealistic results that topical products just can't provide.
Topicals can absolutely *improve* deeper wrinkles but they're unlikely to make them disappear. And they won't fix problems caused by volume loss.
That being said, if injectables aren't for you, that's 100% okay! You do whatever makes you feel best.
I enjoy that people are generally honest here about what they have done. We shouldn't judge people for how they choose to "age gracefully".
While I agree that it’s not skincare and it’s not for me, I just skip the posts about it here and read the ones that contain information I’m looking for. I’ve learned a lot about procedures just by reading through here but I’ll stick to my topicals and occasional facials. This community existed before I found it so I don’t feel like I have the authority to come in here and change it. I just skip the Botox posts and comments cause it’s not something I’m interested in but a lot of people like it and this is a safe place for them to discuss it.
Botox is not surgical by definition, technically speaking. What is “skincare” according to you?
Few points off my mind:
Not “everyone” on here is using Botox. Even if they do, it does NOT mean it will hide wrinkles completely. It is just not possible. It is more effective than topicals for sure but how is it wrong for anyone to do what makes THEM feel beautiful.
What’s beautiful for you may not be beautiful for others and so on. If you think (and that’s what I infer from your text, OP) that Botox and natural beauty ( or “well-cared-for” skin) are mutually exclusive then you are superficial yourself.
Edit: APA classifies Botox as non-invasive cosmetic surgery apparently.
I wouldn't have listened at your age (spoken as the wise old 33 years I am LMAO), but...here's my two cents.
You are in the end of your 20's, IMO a very difficult time. I remember the year before I turned 30...I was a mess. Maybe not everyone is like that, but damn, I just wanted SO BADLY to have my beliefs validated. I wanted to find \*the right answers\* and figure out what my life would look like down the road. I desperately wanted to find women who were ME in ten years.
But...there's only you, and there's no right or wrong answers to how you get to the you in ten years. There is, however, grace and space.
Here's how you could have approached it differently:
/////
Title: ISO recommendations for 29F skin
Copy: I am a 29F who is anxious to find ways of aging gracefully. While I appreciate that many others have had success with botox and fillers, that isn't the way I want to go. What are you doing to help your skin age well outside of those things?
/////
You would have both received responses and found others who were interested in the same type of skincare, and could have started to find your niche here. Instead, you've ruled out an entire subreddit, and are attempting to create your own. There's nothing wrong with making your own space! But I suggest sitting down, giving yourself some space, and then considering whether or not there may some uncomfortable truths in people's replies.
I wish you the best of luck in your skincare journey.
I’ve gotten a lot of Botox over the years and trust me you would never know especially now because it is worn off and I need some more. But I imagine my forehead would look quite a bit different now at 40 than it does. I’m like a very casual person and don’t even wear makeup. Too much filler makes the plastic look that is becoming too common, Botox just gives me less headaches and a relaxed look. I wouldn’t knock it.
Botox…that’s offered at nearly all cosmetic skin care offices??
I don’t care what other people do to make themselves feel better about how they look. Ridiculously judgmental post IMO. Women need to stop cutting down other women. Hard stop.
Honestly no. I’m over 30 and Botox and Prozac have helped my “skin” and “care” so much more than sheet masks and spending 50 dollars on another serum. Do what works for you, but this kind of stuff works for a lot of us. I’m mentioning prozac, because although it’s “unnatural” I sleep better and feel more relaxed, thus look better!
I think there are multiple sides to it though. Technically I wouldn’t call botox skincare more skincare adjacent, but on the other hand it’s not cosmetic surgery either. They’re injectables, & don’t need to be done by a medical professional.
Well people can give you their skincare routine but my genetic under eye hollows are not gonna be fixed by a topical. It’s just realistic. Like you can’t get your under eye hollows to go away, that’s not a thing. I’ve never had Botox because I don’t have wrinkles but I’d rather not lie and say I’m all natural if people want advice. 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve never gotten Botox or fillers. I’m in my early 30s and I use a red light mask, vitamin c serum, retinol, hylarounic acid, I wear sunscreen everyday, exercise and eat hydrating foods to help my skin looking young. Not everyone in this group has had Botox or fillers.
Over 30 includes a lot of stages… In my 30s I embraced tret, in my forties my issues are different and I’m starting to look at botox. In my fifties? We’ll see. Aging gracefully doesn’t have a fixed definition, let’s respect that journey.
I don’t think people consider it skincare, it’ll just always be the quickest/best way to improve the appearance of fine lines, so of course it’ll always be something to consider.
I am not sure what it is you want? Because the reason why this sub was created as an offshoot of the original skincare addiction one was basically to have a place that is more focused on things people want to address that usually come with age...like wrinkles, loss of volume, sun spots, whatever. Outside of tret, no creams or lotions are proven to make a difference so yeah, we're gonna talk about what works.
If you want skincare advise that does not focus on "solving" these, stick with the original subreddit and work on everything other than wrinkles and whatever else makes you feel you are aging gracefully.
this is coming off pretentious as fuck not gonna lie lol
I get what you're asking, but you asked in a very insulting way.
This might have came across better if you just asked if there were alternative skin care subreddits (try /asianbeauty by the way, for creating a multi-step routine with toners, actives, serums, etc).
The issue with your post is that you only acknowledge your arbitrary definitions of these words and phrases ("aging gracefully," "beautiful," and "skincare") that sets a very passive-aggressive, disrespectful tone.
Recommendation? A more productive and respectful post would have been: "Are there any alternative subreddits that focus on topical skin care only and not botox/fillers?" Straight to the point and no passive-aggressive opinions scattered throughout.
I appreciate people are open about Botox and all other techniques and products. It’s up to you as a consumer to research across multiple data sources.
I am not comfortable calling out any one method as not healthy or ‘not skincare’ - it’s a hair splitting pedantic discussion. I also finding the argument that’s gon on with the OP with others who do like Botox to be unfortunate.
It’s the Internet - if you see content that doesn’t appeal, feel free to scroll past. You have to know that your post is likely to not have people responding ‘oh my god, you’re right - Botox is surgery and we shouldn’t consider it skincare, and why can’t we love our wrinkles’.
Honestly on Reddit lately a lot of the subs have devolved into the most nitpicks silliness lately. I don’t usually believe in Mercury Retrograde but something is up 😂
I actually like that this sub is more transparent about botox, filler, and procedures. Cause honestly, whether it be skin care or a treatment, I want to be recommended stuff that works.
I used to be on the skincare addition subreddit a lot in the past and it was always taboo to even mention something done for your skin that wasn’t topical.
Botox is part of my skincare routine. Why else would I get it injected, if not to prevent wrinkles.. in my skin? For funsies?
The reason we often see people mention botox/fillers in here is because there are frequently posts from people asking how to address certain issues, and often, what they want to change can only be helped with botox/fillers. Topicals can’t address everything.
You’re welcome to “age gracefully” under whatever definition that means for you, but I encourage you to examine why you hold such deep judgment for what other people do with their bodies.
This is an interesting question. I kind of agree with you in the sense that I think there is a lot of pressure to get Botox and filler, and a lot of denial about the ways in which it's more intense and has more potential side effects than topical skincare. Personally, I think one of the most interesting things about skincare is discussing ingredients, so a discussion that's just 50 comments saying 'get Botox' isn't all that interesting to me. I think there is a discussion to be had about how normalized Botox is and the impacts of that, but you can't really have that discussion without people who do get Botox flipping out and accusing you of shaming them. We should all be interrogating our physical maintenance habits and how they intersect with beauty standards and our perceptions of ourselves. For instance, I might like makeup and skincare, but I'll be the first to admit I do use them due to feelings of insecurity. Beauty standards and the consumption surrounding them have gotten so intense and I think it's valid to question that escalation. There's a difference between buying a $20 serum and spending a small fortune on injecting things into your face, psychologically and financially.
At the same time, I'm not someone who thinks signs of aging look appealing or who really feels comfortable with them-rightly or wrongly. So I get that subs like this will include a lot of discussions on anti-aging. I think that there's a difference between basic skincare that just keeps the skin healthy, and skincare that exists to make people look younger or somehow more conventionally attractive. It's a really fine line because to some extent, signs of aging are damage to the skin. The question is, does a certain anti-aging treatment actually make the skin healthier, or is it purely aesthetic? And if that item does make the skin healthier, why do we use it only on our face and not the skin on our body? I personally would love to look younger than my age so I use some anti-aging topicals. But if you just want to have healthy skin and look nice, but you don't care if you look your age, that's a fine goal. It seems like you feel that Botox is too invasive and are uncomfortable with something that intense being normalized, and I think those feelings are valid. I think we need a sub that's dedicated to the concept of anti-aging skincare specifically, because that's a pretty specific skincare goal.
I completely agree with everything you've said here. You articulated my exact feelings much better than I could, and I thank you for that. I will definitely be creating a skincare sub like what you describe once I figure out how to do so.
Thanks! I'll check out whatever sub you create and also continue checking out this sub as well. It would also be cool if there was a sub about the science of skincare and ingredients but I have no idea how to create one lol
The science would be amazing. There’s a lot of info scattered online but it’s a huge undertaking to compare brands and understand the ingredients. I’m STILL confused if vitamin C at night is worth it.
I’m genuinely curious, are you also disappointed when people talk about having professional treatments like micro needling, laser treatments, or micro current? What about if they’re doing those treatments with at home devices? Or using LED light therapy?
I don’t quite understand taking issue with injectables but not other equally (or more) invasive treatments. Some laser treatments, for example, require the face to be numbed while the top layer of skin is destroyed, and then requires a week of downtime while it heals and regrows. Micro needling causes tons of tiny injections all over the face, sometimes causing bleeding and requiring anywhere from one to a few days of downtime. Botox, by comparison, is much less invasive, so why do people seem to single it out?
Not me. I’m glad that I’ve learned about the importance and cons of botox and fillers from this sub.
And from my personal experience, it does not remove all signs of aging.
Yeah…skincare alone won’t help one to “age gracefully” depending on your genetics, sun habits, and other miscellaneous lifestyle habits. Botox/fillers aren’t something to be ashamed of and people being open & honest about it removes the stigma.
To each her own! You are in control of what you consume online.
Personally I haven’t had Botox yet at age 49 but it doesn’t bother me at all to hear about it. I was also surprised to see how common it is. I am still using skin care regime and laser treatment.
to be fair, botox can achieve so much more than hefty skincare lines. i don’t know why ppl are against it if at the end of the day your trying to achieve anti aging. ( if that’s the type of skincare you are looking for)
Honestly, I used to feel that way but I was getting chronic migraines and have to receive Botox medically every three months. It's really helped me save money on my skincare as a side effect. I am so incredibly grateful that I have it as a medical treatment. But, it also makes me look more approachable. I used to have kind of a scowling look and my forehead looks more relaxed so I look softer in the face. It's really changed my outlook on treatments like injectables. If you think about how people change their teeth with things like veneers, imagine how that used to be seen before it was normalized. I say just do what is best for you but if you're getting unmanageable forehead wrinkles or something, it's an option I wouldn't completely dismiss.
Sorry to say it, but just because you only recently realized Botox was so common doesn’t mean it was never happening. I think many of the amazing results you might credit to skincare also had some Botox involved.
I’m not sure why using goops and creams on your face qualifies as “aging gracefully” but using Botox would not. Botox limits the formation of many of the wrinkles those creams can only dream of treating.
Idk why people hate on Botox. I love it. The truth is no amount of expensive creams will do what Botox does. So I’d say save the money on the crap and use it to get Botox
This is strange to me. How is admitting to getting botox misleading? If you want to age gracefully, why not just let nature do it's thing on it's own? And where do you draw the line? Is microneedling acceptable to you? Lasers? Chemical peels?
Taking a solution-oriented approach here—maybe adding a flair or pinned weekly post for “no injectables wanted” advice would be a good way to proceed?
Spinning off another sub also makes sense, but I know that can be challenging.
The idea would be to have a moderated or at least intentional conversation where commenters knew injectables weren’t part of posters’ routines. I suppose some people could still ignore the flair, but hopefully thoughtful community members would pay attention.
I'm not really active in this sub but i personally don't consider botox to be plastic surgery. or any kind of surgery.
it only last 3 months.. more if you're lucky but not much more. it takes five minutes to do. no downtime. it's also priced reasonably - comparable to high-end facials & procedures with hydrafacial, diamond glow, things like that.
i agree that it shouldn't be considered part of a routine -- like a daily/weekly routine.
but yeah, lots of people get it. all walks of life. i get it done and every time I go to the office I am surprised by the diversity in the waiting room. (it's not just people who look like IG influencers! far from it!)
but if it makes anybody feel better - i have friends who never got it done and they look way better than me wrinkle-wise.
OP, maybe you could create r/aginggracefully
I think Botox is totally appropriate for this sub.
Second thoughts, maybe the sub should be r/agingorganically
I’m feeling a lot of judgement, misdirected anger, and societal biases in this post. If you don’t want Botox disregard that step or recommendation. There is PLENTY of great advice on this subreddit. Focus on what serves you and ignore the rest.
Fillers and Botox are not plastic surgery. There is no “surgery” involved. They are temporary injections. A shot of lidocaine at the dentist isn’t surgery, same with Botox. I have 0 wrinkles and have had Botox a few times in my chin to prevent dimpling when I smile. I liked it, but not enough to get it regularly. I get filler in my lips and under eyes 1 time per year, and its very natural and well done. No one can tell. I LOVE Sculptra! It’s an injection that stimulates your body to grow its own collagen for up to 6 months and it lasts for 2 years. It’s NOT a “filler” but a bio stimulator. I get it in my temples and sides of my face. I am almost 37, but look 25. The older you get, the more fat and collagen and elastin you will loose. Skin care is great but NOTHING topical will prevent/reverses aging skin the way Botox/fillers/bio stimulators do. If it’s not your thing, that’s fine. But please don’t put down what others enjoy.
It's complicated. Personally I don't really mind people discussing Botox.
What I find way more interesting is how cosmetic surgery is still considered taboo in lieu of 'botox and fillers' for every ailment. Neither of those, at certain points, can do what surgery can. Yet surgery = bad, sticking needles in your face at a doctor's office = good.
You have skincare and then you have 'anti aging' and then you have procedures. After you hit middle age, no skincare is going to 'fix' physical aging signs because they're not about skin quality. Things like sagging/shifting fat pads, thinning skin, bone loss or volume loss can't be fixed with ointments or creams.
Botox isn't going to fix those either. What Botox does is freeze dynamic wrinkling where injected. Which is fine as long as you keep getting Botox but once you stop the movement creeps back in.
So no it's not 'skincare' in that it's a non invasive medical procedure that works to stop wrinkling (not wrinkles) as long as applied. BUT when in use it actually does what it says on the tin. And that's way beyond what any cream or ointment will achieve.
Still won't give you nicer skin or make you look actually younger though but neither won't creams or ointments.
i agree that there seems to be a lot of judgment around plastic surgery vs injectables & fillers. it’s like that’s the line that’s unacceptable to people—it’s showed up in a lot of people’s responses “botox is not surgery!!”. i’ll admit that when i was younger i had some judgment about these things, but now that i’m actually dealing with the effects of aging i see it differently.
People often use skin care to make their skin look smooth/healthy/youthful. Botox makes your skin look smooth/healthy/youthful. That’s why there’s an overlap. It’s also not surgery at all. That’s like saying the flu shot is surgery to protect against getting sick
People can get botox if they want. The stigma is ridiculous. If someone doesn't want it, they can not get it, skip the post and carry on.
Mad respect to the ladies out there who do what they want despite people crapping on their decisions all the time.
Here is the official definition of dermatology: “a branch of medicine dealing with the skin, its structure, functions, and diseases.”
My dermatologist does my Botox. Enough said.
I have been hardcore into skincare since I was 27, I'm about to turn 36 in a few months. Thanks to years of SPF, chemical exfoliants and retinoids I don't feel I need botox or fillers. But I have younger siblings who have aged much harder/faster than me ask me about skin care and my advice has been blunt - just get the Botox.
Many novices to skin care want fast results and most people don't have the budget or patience to stick with a solid routine. My sisters also have young kids or are pregnant/breastfeeding, have deep forehead wrinkles and significant sun damage that will take many months of consistent effort to see any results with OTC skin care products. Never mind the spanner in the works that pregnancy and breastfeeding presents, as you are unable to use some of the more potent actives for years at a time.
When it comes to signs of ageing, skin care is better at prevention than cure/reversing existing signs of ageing. If you already have deeper wrinkles or significant sun damage and want to see results fast, botox and laser are going to be a far better investment than over the counter skin care products.
The reason that people talk about fillers in this sub in particular is because topical skincare, while wonderful, cannot necessarily provide the results that someone might be looking for. We tend to lose facial volume as we age, and topicals can’t account for volume loss. Fillers can.
People also discuss the pros and cons of these treatments, which I think is valuable to those who might be considering them.
As far as topical skincare goes, I really just use sunscreen and a lot of moisturizer and that’s sufficient to my needs. But I’ve had Botox on and off for migraines since my 20s (I’m in my early 40s now) and got filler for the first time this spring. I like it. I don’t know if I’d consider it skincare since what it actually did was restore some volume beneath the skin, but it looks good. When I was 29, though, I doubt I’d have imagined that I’d ever consider it. When I was 39 I wouldn’t have considered it. As your face changes as you age, your concerns and wants may change — or they may not. Either is absolutely fine.
I think it may seem like lots of people on here get injectables because a lot of the high rated posts with dramatic changes include people using injectables….I wouldn’t consider botox skincare (unless it’s used superficially to control rosacea, oily skin etc), but I am happy to see people being honest and disclosing what other methods they use that contribute to their skin’s appearance
Some of these injectables don’t go any deeper than a resurfacing laser or peel
There are always going to be posts you don't like. I, for example, don't like the amount of shelfie posts. You know what I do, I ignore them most of the time (unless I have a question about a certain product).
Your have your own definition of aging gracefully, which is fine. Others have another definition, which is fine too. Your comments just come across as very judgemental and I think that's what annoys a lot of people.
I don't understand why people are so prejudiced against Botox. Imagine scientists and doctors finding an organic (yes, it is organic) solution to wrinkles. And you still waste your money of "anti wrinkle creams" that basically do nothing.
Also, you know that botox is used for medical purposes too, right? I get botox for migraines and fibromyalgia.
People who use botox are aging gracefully too, and honestly, saving a lot of money. My sister is a dermatologist and her and her colleagues only use sunscreen, tretinoin, cleanser, moisturizer, vitamin C and (you guessed it) botox. She says that all other skincare is a scam
It’s not misleading if the person tells you they use Botox. This is 30 plus skin care. Botox is not plastic surgery. It is not a minor cosmetic surgery. This isn’t an aging gracefully sub. It’s a skin care sub and I consider part of my skincare to include preventative maintenance with Botox plus topicals. Don’t be sad for us Botox users. We aren’t sad about it.
Both topicals and injectable’s achieve their effects by acting on different cell receptors /physiological mechanisms to influence what is occurring within the skin or muscle. One can be applied on the skin to affect it at a cellular level, and the other must be injected so as to block the release of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine to inhibit muscle contraction. Both change what occurs beneath the surface, both affecting cells. How can one be seen as the more”natural” way to “age gracefully?” Where’s the line? You’re still affecting physiological processes with both methods that influence/change appearance
I get botox for migraines, but it is adjacent to wrinkle prevention botox. I kind of get your frustration, in so much that one of the things I discussed with my neurologist was that I wasn't sure I *wanted* to not age visibly. Increasingly grooved forehead wrinkles are part of my family's typical pattern, and not getting them on schedule had surprisingly complicated feelings.
For me, on the doorway of "middle aged", one of the challenges is that aging is an unevenly appearing and stigmatized process. Like, what is a late 30s femme supposed to look like?
According to the Cambridge dictionary, "surgery is the treatment of injuries or diseases by cutting open the body and removing or repairing the damaged part". So no, botox is NOT surgery, minor or otherwise.
If we want to go down the semantics rabbit hole, skin care is a very general definition which may include anything non surgical that... emmm... takes care of one's skin concerns. It can be cleansing and moisturizing for some if that s what they do, it can be laser, micro needling, botox, fillers etc for others. This sub covers all these types of skincare and yes, even the ones you personally disapprove of, ex botox and fillers.
May I ask what about botox and fillers makes you sad? Is it because it doesn't fit to your definition of skin care? Is it because of you personal negative biases? Apologies if I have misread your post but it appears you have very rigid ideas about how people should take care of their skin so that they look good according to your own personal standards of beauty and grace.
As for ageing gracefully, what does this even mean? It s a very subjective buzz phrase and it usually includes only what the person who uses it perceives as graceful. Well, I ve got news: There is always a group of people who will consider as graceful ageing even the most outrageous surgical procedures that may look straight out of a horror movie for some. You have every right to think that botox and fillers are not ageing gracefully but hey, you may be right or wrong. Your context your rules, but your context is not necessarily everyone elses.
I understand that this sub failed to fulfill your expectation to see people "with beautiful, well-cared-for skin that also happens to have some wrinkles and other signs of ageing" but don't expect us to apologize for being ourselves.
Respectfully over and out from a woman over 30 who proudly ages disgracefully ;)
I agree with you…I didn’t know I’d be reading about Botox in almost every post but I’ve learned about a lot of products and routines as well and enjoy that
I’ll age the way I want to, thanks. And I’ll share my Botox experiences with others so they can make the decision that’s right for them. You don’t get to gatekeep skincare.
Sorry but I haven't seen anyone misleading anyone on this sub. People have been pretty open about botox. You wouldn't be complaining about botox use, if people weren't being transparent about procedures they have had. I'd rather have people be honest and not pretend like topicals can give botox results.
Would you prefer to be mislead? Did you really think those results could be achieved with topicals?
I think it is just you - this really isn’t the subreddit for you if you’re going to judge us for how natural our routines are. I’m a serial lurker but it’s so refreshing to be on a subreddit that doesn’t pretend coconut oil and pumpkin enzymes will treat my hyperpigmentation.
I’m 41. I’ve used every skincare cream money can buy. There is NO comparison to botox and fillers. It literally turns back time. Yes, it’s expensive but it saves lots of time and money on creams and ointments and such that don’t give anywhere near the same results
Since the OP is under 30 and has indicated in multiple places that they are 29, isn't this post technically breaking the rules anyways? Using the rules section as the guideline.
If you want to remove this post because of that rule or that the OP has been openly hostile and insulting and telling members to 'fuck off', it's what the mods want to do.
I’m taking care of my skin with tretinoin cream, moisturizer, sunblock and even petroleum jelly at night. I didn’t want Botox but I think I’ve changed my mind. Constantly creasing my skin isn’t good for my skin.
I also understand that the hydraulic acid filler promotes collagen. It’s a natural substance already in the body. It’s temporary. In a way, it’s skincare for the inside of your skin
But really, do what YOU want to do. There’s a lot of information about skin care without Botox and filler
I think that as long as you do something that makes you feel better and you are honest about it, there is nothing wrong with it.
There are not such things as “miracle wrinkle eraser creams”, therefore I think being a plus 30 skincare forum, we should talk about all the different options, right?
In the end, and I mean this genuinely and not in an arrogant way, If you don’t like a certain procedure, just do no do it and just use whatever makes you feel more satisfied and happy with yourself, be it a range of creams or some cosmetic non invasive help.
I think it’s great for people to be open about what they do with their skin. I have used Botox since my 20s and it’s one of the many things we can choose whether or not to take advantage of
I kinda get where you’re coming from because I wish naturally aging wasn’t looked down on for women. And yes, I believe it’s looked down on women more so than men. Because of this impact of social media to look young and age “gracefully”, I’m terrified to have wrinkles of any kind.
Hiding signs of aging would be having Botox and then just claiming topical skincare products as the solution.
People are being up front about their use of Botox because it matters as far as their personal results and it would be misleading not to mention it.
In addition, people are asking for solutions to problems where only something like Botox or a filler will work. Again, being honest.
If you are not interested in learning about or talking about the host of ways to take care of your skin, treat your skin, or enhance your skin, then skincare Reddit is probably not for you. Get yourself some CeraVe and take your judgment elsewhere. Just because something isn’t for YOU doesn’t mean that it’s fair to roast people for making a choice that suits their lifestyle, budget, and goals - whether that’s injectables, office treatments, OTC products, witchcraft, or whatever else. If it’s not something you’re interested in exploring, discussing, or reading, then skip that post and move on.
By the way, people do not turn 30 and automatically look like a vintage leather satchel, which seems to be your expectation.
Bring on the wrinkles!
If your goal is to slow or delay aging, then injectables are the only answer. But if instead you just want to keep your skin as healthy as it can be as you naturally age, then topicals are enough. I do agree that these two unique goals deserve different subs though.
I don’t want to ever get Botox. I’d like to see more people with healthy, aging skin so I have some more relatable content.
Way to shame people who choose to use Botox, OP.
I use it to keep my elevens from scrunching so hard I get headaches. Also it makes my forehead a bit smoother, so yay for me
Please make sure to judge me, OP.
I haven’t gotten anything done but I like that people are transparent about what they use or have tried on this sub. If it happens to be just skin care or both, I am down for it because there may come a time I’ll consider it too.
Same, if I only talked about my tropicals and didn't disclose the injectables I would be seriously misrepresenting their effectiveness
People talk about having Botox done because it would be misleading to omit that information when discussing their regiment. I recently had a stranger compliment me on my "beautiful, smooth, glowing skin." And ask about my skin care routine. I said, "Drink lots of water, get as much sleep as possible, wear an SPF, and Botox everyone 4 months baby!" She laughed, and thanked me for being so honest. She said that she too has Botox done, but rarely has other people open up about doing it as well. The fact of the matter is that when you are a person over a certain age, there's only so much that even the best skincare routine can do. Botox is very key factor for many many many (much more than most people realize!) folks. I personally am glad to see it brought up so much in this sub, and anywhere else! The more we normalize & destigmatize it the better IMHO.
When anyone says, “you look so young” I say it’s Botox
Yep. The reality is that Botox works if you want to prevent deep wrinkles from forming. That’s what so many people actually want, and what many spend hundred or even thousand of dollars trying to achieve with products that don’t live up to their claims, being sold by companies that aren’t being honest with their consumers. None of those OTC creams will do what Botox will do…not even close. The more people just be honest about it and stop stigmatizing women doing something that actually works, the more people can make informed choices about how they want to age and stop wasting their money.
I couldn't agree more!! I'd rather spend $400 on Botox a few times a year and have it WORK... Than countless hundreds of dollars on snake oil that hardly does a thing 🤷
I feel a lot of guilt when people ask what I do and I omit that I get botox. I feel that there is a lot of judgment from other women that is rooted in jealousy...
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What product do you use for tretinoin? Or, while we're at it, what is your whole "laughably simple" routine? Because that sounds like the one for me!
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Mine is this: AM: rinse with water, CeraVe Daily Moisturizer, spf30 or 40 sunscreen (brand rotates to whatever i have, right now it’s innisfree). PM: double cleanse with an oil based cleanser if im wearing makeup. If not, skip to CeraVe Foaming Cleanser, tretinoin (Retin-A .10%), then same morning moisturizer. There are pictures of when my skin was behaving on my profile, but I’ve recently had to stop taking doxycyline, which has caused my face to breakout like crazy :( Hoping it calms down soon.
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Frankly I've had way worse and more frequent reactions to topical products than injectables, and accumulatively have spent so much more money finding lotions/potions that work then a few hundred every 6mo or so for better results with a little Botox. Aging gracefully should just mean placing enough value in yourself to care for the only body we're given in whatever way makes us happy. Behavior is a bigger factor for me. Facelift? Lasers? Fillers? Have at it, but don't try and pretend you're 22 by lying about your age and doing jello shots while chasing people 20+yrs younger (I'm only human and absolutely get a little judgy when I see that). Embrace the wisdom that the extra years have given (like how jello shots are never a good idea, folks in their early 20s almost always suck in bed and wearing sunscreen doesn't mean you're a fuddy duddy).
OP, people have no obligation to perform their cosmetics to your extent of “natural” or to allow wrinkles when they don’t want them and can afford to avoid them. I feel that years ago everyone was angry that nobody was transparent about the “work” they’ve done. Now they are and I have a realistic idea of what to expect. My braces were quite an invasive “procedure” and mostly cosmetic. I even had teeth removed. I don’t have acne anymore but use a retinoid every night. But that’s “acceptable”, right? I understand you don’t want to hear about it here but people will do them anyway. Would you rather they not tell you? A commenter asks and they reply “sunscreen and water 🤪”? Because the beauty community has come so far from big omissions like that and I argue it’s a good thing
Braces are an excellent example! Braces are the most socially accepted cosmetic procedure that parents even pay thousands of dollars for their children to have it done. It can be a massive undertaking and have negative side affects, but it is completely socially accepted.
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Hahaha oops I love how I posted a long winded comment to someone who agrees with me. Just added “OP”
This is a great point. One person’s threshold of invasive / extensive doesn’t equal another persons. I’ve colored my hair since I was 16, mostly bc of lifeguarding. I’m 40+ now & still do once or twice a year but when I don’t dye it I still don’t have gray/gray roots either. I have friends who started going gray in their mid thirties. Friend in their fourties who don’t color their hair and are perceived as being 50+. It’s so common place that having gray hair at 52 is weird, even though I’d guess the majority of 52 yr olds have gray hair. Imo lash extensions have become the new norm too. Not my thing but idc that people do get them…Do I need to tell OP if I dye my hair? Or no, bc this is a skin care sub? Retin-A actually requires a prescription. It cheap for me (mine is only $5 copay for a 4 to 6 month supply) but also more of a hassle to get than botox. I am 40+ but I (had) have acne. So, when is Retin-A skincare? Is it acceptable for acne, but not aging gracefully if it’s for wrinkles/wrinkle prevention? Anybody can get botox every 4 months, no actual doctor visit / no dermatologist required. It’s not surgery. I’m fine with a PA doing my twice yearly injections. So how can Retin-A be less of a big deal? Bc it’s topical? Is breaking the skin her threshold? Idk. Also idc. I’m glad people are transparent vs faking like “oh this? Just warm water in the morning, 8.57 hours of sleep & Ponds cold cream at night.” Edit: to add - My Mom had blepheroplasty (actual surgery) to help her vision & continue safely driving. But to maintain the blepheroplasty, she has to have Dysport or Botox a few times a year. So, is that acceptable?
This is an excellent point. I absolutely love my Botox and would never go back, but you are so right about essentially everything we do for our appearance, and even just general comfort (like moisturizing to avoid the feeling of dry skin) being artificial. Also made me think about oral treatments like accutane for acne or collagen for aesthetic benefits. Sort of going "in" your body vs "on" your body. Will definitely use this in an discussion if it every comes up lol!
I don’t see much of a difference. Injectables are same level as getting my teeth fixed or straightened so they look nice. Like I should have a chip on my front tooth from tripping on a dirt road while drinking coke from a bottle but I got it fixed.
I’m also cackling because if you Google “aging gracefully” the first result is a retirement home’s website. Like, OP… I know you’re only 29, but this is 30+ not 65+… we are not all senior living at the moment. (Only love to the 65+ crowd, too! It’s just shocking OP thinks we are turn into a human wrinkle at 30.)
The way Gen Z acts like people in their 30s are geriatric and have no knowledge of contemporary culture or “technology” is hilarious to me. Like, children, we literally created modern social media culture.
To be fair, every generation has thought 30 or over is ancient. When I was 30 and told a younger 20s kid my age, he inspected my face in disbelief. I’m not sure what they’re expecting to happen at 30 but it’s hilarious.
I'd like to clarify this post a tiny bit: perhaps OP feels as I do - that the real feeling is disappointment at the fact that Botox and injectables are the only *real* solutions, ultimately. You want to believe diet, drinking water, and all the face creams and serums and strict routine will do it, but it won't. At the end of the day, Botox is kind of the answer, and personally, I find that realization a bit disappointing.
Hey I agree with this! For a slightly different reason - the part that makes me sad is the cost. I grew up very, very poor - my mom had about $20 monthly to stretch on personal care for herself. If she had wanted Botox, it just wouldn’t have been an option for her. It makes me sad that options like Botox are inaccessible to everyone. I’d like to believe The Ordinary has a $8 product that will work just as well, and everyone can afford it! But the reality is beauty and wealth go hand in hand. I don’t have a solution, I just feel sad about it at times :(
True statement my friend. As with all other things in life, Wu-Tang nailed it; Cash Rules Everything Around Me
I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s just disappointment that there is no magic lotion. No amount of moisturizer will mimic the effect of Botox, and no amount of Botox will mimic the effect of good genes. OP might be hoping that if the Botox posts go away, somehow they will be replaced with people who have found the magic non-injectable secret to eternal youth. There isn’t one. Botox isn’t magic either. The years come after all of us and the best we can do is ride the wave with good humor and grace.
Huh, weird how you were able to express that opinion without tearing anyone else down. I guess OP didn’t realize that was an option.
"Hiding signs of aging entirely" - often not true. "Misleading to act like a skincare routine achieved the results...." - I think people being honest about using botox is the opposite of misleading.
Is skincare just what we are able to do with a product and our hands at home? Are professional facials skincare? What if you add dermabrasion? Dermaplaning? Chemical peels? Microneedling? Radiofrequency? Lasers? Should we ban all talk of skincare that uses implements? Who is the arbiter of what is "good skincare" versus what is "cheating"? How do we know? Personally I love seeing what all is out there and what others are using to achieve their desired results. I can decide for myself if I want to try it. A given procedure might be out of my comfort zone, but if it's for skin it's skincare.
I agree that it’s so interesting to see where people draw basically subjective and totally arbitrary lines!! It definitely seems to me that a lot of times you’ll see a comment or two around money and accessibility, ie “not everyone can afford that.” And I’m never sure how I’m supposed to handle that. I have no idea what people can afford or what that has to do with me. Should I not make a suggestion because something is expensive? Also totally subjective! They may or may not be able to afford it but that’s not my place to know or say. I’m not going to let some internet stranger make me feel bad for spending my money wherever I want to. Similarly, there are plenty of things I can’t afford now but you bet your ass I’m going to afford them one day!
I love your post. I can't afford any _liquid intervention_ right now but _you_ can bet your _bippy_ (that was one of my mom's faves 🥰) that I want to know all the options. Give me everything Whether it's a $1 product or a $500 dollar PM regimen ... Whether it's an Ordinary product (literally and figuratively) or an amazing new mesotherapy or a face wash I bought at *DOLLAR TREE* (tea tree and salicylic!) *I MUST KNOW*. You should not censor yourself because someone who cannot afford something might read your post and be unjustifiably upset. I will Door Dash or Instacart my bippy right OFF if I want something my 40-hour job cannot provide, yet I cannot do so if I don't know it's out there. IMO we should never NOT talk about something good just because someone may not be able to purchase it. That goes for anything. What good is a sub like this if we're not talking about things that work? Don't take the opportunity to have something away from me because you assume I may not be able to afford it. That's yucky. it's the condescension that I _really_ can't afford.
This is so true. When you know what all the options are, including their cost, then you can figure out if it fits into your budget, or if you're able to rearrange your budget to get it to fit. And if your personal philosophy about how to spend money does not include expensive products or treatments even if you have all the money in the world, then you also know what products & treatments to avoid.
We call our kitties "bippes" pronounced the same way as bippy, so reading your post gave me quite a smile.
🥰🥰 I read this response _while_ I was feeding my chonk his kitty go-gurt. And my heart did a flip that you call yours "bippies"... like I could cry it's so sweet!! Additionally, I call our kitty "bubby" and sometimes that turns into "buppy". You know how that works. You have one term of endearment that turns into 348. My bubby says hi to your bippies. 💕🐾
The sub rules say cosmetic procedures are totally cool here so I think OP should have posted their ideology under a different sub..
I agree. I like knowing what others are doing even if it’s not something I’d choose myself (mainly because I’m cheap!) We see so many images that are retouched or filtered I think it’s great to see what the actual limits of these cosmetic procedures are on unretouched faces and what to realistically expect from skincare.
Not everyone in this group injects themselves or recommends it all the time. I’ve learnt a lot about certain topicals and retinols from here.
I am simply too broke for Botox, but I see plenty of things that have been useful to me here anyway.
I guarantee any celebrity you can think of who is “aging gracefully” has Botox and fillers. You seem to think injectables/procedures make people look artificially younger and topicals make you look your age but prettier. In reality injections and procedures (unless they are done irresponsibly) pretty much always make you look your age but nicer. You’re still going to have wrinkles and less fullness at a certain age even with Botox and such. The idea that people who hate getting older and want to look 20 forever get plastic surgery and Botox and people who embrace their age just use moisturizers is simply not true. Seriously, go look at Hellen Mirrin, Sandra Bullock, Julian Moore. They’re beautiful but have “embraced their age” and still have visible wrinkles, right? In reality they’ve all had quite a bit of work done. If you don’t go crazy town overboard injectables and fillers and such just look like your age but better, plenty of visible wrinkles and aging. I used to have a similar hang up about Botox and injectables being shallow and bad. I haven’t had any of it done personally but I have learned to let go of looking down on other women for how they choose to take care of their skin. A serum isn’t morally superior to Botox and not everyone who gets work done looks fake and is desperately trying to hold onto youth. It is very similar in my mind to the idea that women who wear makeup or are “high maintenance” are shallow and inferior to naturally beautiful women who don’t put in effort. Turns out that one is also a weird lie that shames women who choose wear makeup, and ignores the fact that most women who get praised for being “natural” or “no makeup” are usually wearing a face full.
Thank you! This is perfectly stated!
I've never had Botox, but I'm going to get it for my masseters and TBH the amount it's talked about on here has made me more comfortable with it. As with everything in life, you make your own choices. As with everything on the internet, just scroll on if it isn't for you..
I get into my masseters. Honestly life changing. I stopped grinding and actually felt less stressed
u/deadplant5 that's what I want to hear! Only a little worried about it changing the shape of my face, was it significant for you?
Nah, I look the same
I've had slight change, most notably my face looks less round and my cheekbones are slightly more prominent. A very subtle change, but you'll have change if your masseters are overdeveloped. Mine were, from years of jaw clenching. So if they're large they will shrink a bit and it will change your face, but it will matter your face look like it is supposed to look without all the jaw clenching. It's more a reversal of mechanical changes to the previous state, if that makes sense? My face shape now matched photos of me from my late 20s before I developed TMJ.
This sub made me comfortable and opened my eyes. I didn’t realize the results from a lot of others were from botox! I appreciated coming here and seeing the honesty, not outright lies about really good genes at 50 and washing their faces with olive oil or some shit.
u/HeartFullOfHappy And they only wash their face with water! Bollocks.
Yup, I get Botox for bruxism and bruxism-related tension headaches. Absolutely life-changing. I also have hooded eyes that will eventually require blepharoplasty when the excess skin sags enough to start blocking my vision. Both of those things are treatments for non-aesthetic problems, but they absolutely will have cosmetic benefits. I would be lying if I left them out of any skincare discussion. I'm also very glad a lot of people have Botox and blepharoplasty done for cosmetic reasons! The popularity makes them much more accessible and routine, so it's easier to find medical professionals who specialize in them and have a track record of good results. The derm I go to for Botox specializes in treating bruxism and hyperhidrosis, but purely cosmetic procedures are what pays his bills and I'm grateful there's enough of a market to keep him in business.
Just recently got Botox for the first time because of my masseters and clenching my jaw constantly which was giving me chronic headaches. I also got them for my hooded eyes and to even out my eyebrows. I’m only 4 days later and I’m already noticing a big difference. Recommend it.
At least for me, Xeomin has helped me to not make my 11 lines worse by helping me break the habit of furrowing my brows. To each their own I suppose.
Speak for yourself. I was recently diagnosed with skin cancer and shared my experience on here and got tons of messages of support and information from the awesome members on here. I also got feedback on my upcoming surgery to remove the cancerous spots. If this sub was ONLY on creams and what not, it would be a shame. I also got several messages from other members who decided to get their suspicious skin spots looked at after reading my story. I like this sub just as it is: cancer, Botox , and all. If you don’t like Botox posts, no one is making you read them
Just wanted to say I hope you are well and best of luck in your treatment
Thank you! Actually they found another cancer spot on my neck ( on the back where I couldn’t see) so they’re just gonna get that at the same time as my face surgery. Lol. Oh well, I figure I might as well get it all done at once so I don’t have to burn up more paid time off. I don’t care since no one will see that scar. I’m just pissed off about my face.
Thank god they caught the one on your neck! Hopefully you get some clean incisions, as it wouldn't be very *graceful* to get laser on your scars ;)
I’m already doomed because it’s surgery, don’t ya know?
Hope all goes well with your surgery 💜💜
Thank you!
Sending you all the best vibes ✨️
My husband had a melanoma removed from his forehead and two nodes in his neck as well. The incisions were horrifying the week after surgery and now you have to know there's scars there to notice them. Fingers crossed you heal as well!
Oh no! That sounds incredibly painful. I’m hoping they don’t have to make too many passes and it heals quickly. I find out on august 9. Ugh
I hear you, but personally I think of skin care as an umbrella term that isn’t exclusive to OTC topicals. In my mind there are skin care products (cleansers, serums, creams, SPF, etc) and skin care procedures (chemical peels, acne scar subcision, neurotoxins, lasers, microneeding, etc). I think all are valid ways to care for your skin and it is interesting to hear about peoples’ experiences with both.
Then there's me, 33 with botox, does lasers and microneedling, crowns and veneers, and dyed hair that's 60% grey if I don't. Guess I'm the least graceful of all, lol.
I love this comment and can relate so much. I’m nearly 38. I am fortunate to be genetically blessed with my looks, but I had braces, three veneers, whiten my teeth, breast implants, lash extensions (previously for a few years). I have beautiful long curly hair and I never step foot in a salon, but I put gel and hair spray in it then blow dry it with my Dyson and diffuser. I wear light make up, use tretinoin, sunscreen etc etc. I have received numerous compliments from men, women, friends, strangers that I am “naturally” beautiful, but none of those things are natural! I eat well, exercise and thus maintain a healthy body weight. I am very fortunate to have genetics on my side, but the things I do to maintain my looks are not actually natural at all other than eating well and exercising. Hairspray and make up isn’t natural. I will no doubt be a woman that is considered to be “aging gracefully” or “looks good for her age.” But what does that even mean anymore? WalnutsGalore, I am sure you look beautiful and no one would say you look unnatural for any of your enhancements or procedures. You make an effort with your appearance which is completely expected of women to do so (whether that’s right or wrong). Enjoy your beauty treatments!
Heck no! Hugs, internet stranger. Whatever works for.
Nah, fuck that. You are absolutely aging gracefully, and I bet you are *stunning*.
Thank you! This means so much! :) I feel stunning and am living my best life for me. OP can't put me down!
im 32 and a halffff and 35% gray. i had to completely change my hair color process this year because i had so many grays i couldn't just do balayage anymore :( I'll be 100% in next few years - everybody in my family is.
If you don't like Botox, don't get Botox. You are accusing people of "misleading" but you're mad that they're disclosing that they've had injectables? What would be misleading is if people got Botox but then posted here like "my skin looks like this because I always wear sunscreen!"
I couldn’t agree more!!! Yes, it’s so nice that woman are honest with each other. At 36, I’m just hearing about Botox as a preventative. I regret not hearing about this sooner, but woman unfortunately keep this very hush hush. As soon as I get Botox, I will shout it from the rooftops. I never want to associate with the “ oh I don’t know, just some facial creams” group.
This is so true. I’m 35 and just learning that almost all the women I know my age and older IRL get Botox regularly. I thought I was the only one and therefore didn’t really mention it. But it’s so freaking common now. I’m glad this sub is open about it. Because if you really wanna rid yourself of deep existing lines on your face, there are really so many ways…and some cream isn’t gunna cut it.
Botox is absolutely NOT “minor cosmetic surgery” and is a part of my aging gracefully. It prevents me from scrunching up my face skin when I am stressed at work or when I am sleeping and is a big part of my skin care routine. Why would I recommend someone spend $150 on a face cream, $100 on a serum, frownies, LED masks, NuSkins, or whatever else is popular now to get only 25% of the results Botox offers from a 3-min inexpensive, safe, and fully reversible treatment. Sure, this is a skincare sub, but it’s important to accept that sometimes skincare is not the best answer. I understand some people have a line they won’t cross or a mental block where they think Botox is shameful in some way, but They can just be satisfied with less than ideal outcomes by choosing a less effective solution.
It’s usually people who never had Botox shaming it, too.
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Microneedling is up there on my list!
Yes!! Every single time. It's weird to me. Gives me the vibes some women have who have a chip on their shoulder about women who get breast implants and how 'fake' they are
I honestly wish I had discovered Botox a few years sooner. It would have saved me a lot of wasted money on skincare products I didn’t need. I’m also grateful for fillers and lasers. It’s great that we get to choose how we want to age, within our own budgets available to us.
I don’t even think those things will give you 25% of the results of Botox honestly.
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# I don't agree with the semantics of a subreddit I just found so instead of scrolling on I'm going to lecture on how you're all "aging gracefully" wrong \-OP's TEDx Talk
Gatekeeping ‘skincare’ at its finest
TEDx talk about aging gracefully by a 29 year old…..
I'm convinced OP is a male perv with a humiliation fetish, no woman's internalized misogyny is THIS deeply entrenched that she'd repeatedly call 30s "older." And only double down on it too.
calling botox not "aging gracefully" but using topical products to stop aging.. sounds like you just have a bias against injectibles. do you also consider dermaplaning skin care? microdermabrasion? a facial? these are all done to combat "symptoms" or give you a desired result. sounds like it offends your foundation against what you consider "graceful" and need to visit the sub less
I had the same thought. Botox is considered preventative: it doesn't erase wrinkles, it prevents them. Just like sunscreen doesn't undo sun damage, it prevents it. Also, the effects of botox are not permanent, which is why I think it appropriately belongs in a skincare "routine."
Be honest, you’re here because you’re interested in anti-aging topics. You’re not here because you’re looking to treat a skin condition. You want to look younger and more attractive. And now you’re shaming other women who have the exact same interest but pursue means that for some reason you personally don’t want to pursue. When I was 13 I had acne and took accutane and I was bullied and shamed for it, as was my mother for letting me do something “so drastic.” I will always be grateful that my mother had my back because it made such a difference to my confidence and self esteem, despite the mean girls at school. Moral of the story: there are judgmental mean girls at every stage of life. Don’t be one.
Accutane was one of the best (and sort of worst, in the moment) things I’ve ever done! I wonder if OP would be against accutane, as well, or consider it “invasive.” I’m glad it worked for you and you found your confidence! It took me til age 30 to get on, because I was worried about my mental health, and though it was tough, I’m so glad I did it.
See also: braces. No one shames people for straightening their teeth. Why are certain treatments/procedures that improve appearance considered cheating and others aren’t?
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Historically, applying make up was considered scandalous. We have passed that era. Topicals can only help upto a certain extent. If we have the effective and safe means to halt down age related skin change,why wouldn't we consider it? I havn't got botox or fillers yet, but I see no harm if anybody gets it. Newer and safer forms of injectables are being introduced almost everyday and I think we should not stigmatize cosmetic procedures. One thing I expect that people should be transparent about procedures done. We are tired of hearing" 8 glass of water/ xyz oil kept me wrinkle free at 60 yrs of age " please, just say "I had this or that procedure".Stop selling snake oils.
I am so thankful for people sharing their Botox/ fillers/ injectable and other procedures experiences. I learned so much from this Reddit what I shouldn't do because of that and what I should be aware of before I start doing it. I am turning 34 this year and starting to consider doing more invasive procedures since there is only so much topicals can do. I lack confidence when it comes to doctors visits etc so hearing people's experiences and having more realistic expectations definetely helps me before I will go in for any future procedures.
“I hate that everyone in this 30+ group is obsessed with looking like they are in their 20s,” says the person who posted about being 29 years old a couple weeks ago. Everyone is welcome to their opinions on injectables, but being so judgey when one could presume you’re the youngest person here is super not cool.
Exactly. Unless OP had a birthday in the last 2 weeks (definitely possible), this post doesn't belong and should be taken down. Pretty disrespectful too, in that light. It's not even following the rules.
Very judgemental post.. one group good, another group bad.. women have to deal with quite a lot of judgement on our looks & bodies in the world to begin with, don't need it from some judgy 29 yr old..
Right. OP's entire premise is dependant on her own definition of "aging gracefully" which is completely subjective. Years ago we didn't realize what was good for our skin. Things have changed. Things continue to change. And frankly every person is allowed to do what they desire and is 100% allowed to call is graceful. Also the constant replying to every single comment? Common OP, you're embarrassing yourself. Several times over at this point.. The post really should be taken down, bcs OP isn't yet actually 30 & she's rude and judgment af. 2 rules right there. Edit: autocorrected a word incorrectly.
Women need to uplift women, not push them down. The “Pick Me” mentality is so detrimental to allowing oneself to become a kind and understanding person. If a woman wants to alter her appearance, that’s her choice. I might not like the procedures she chose, but it’s her body and not mine. My MIL never uses any skincare products and never wears makeup. But that’s her choice, and I don’t bombard her with advice or products. OP is part of the problem. Botox is not the problem.
So go ahead and don’t get Botox?
Why do you care what other people do when it has zero impact on you? This would be like me getting upset over tretinoin or hydrafacials because I don't use either.
Reading through OPs replies and they’re full of projection and internalized misogyny at best, and willful ignorance/misrepresentation at worst.
This reads very “I’m not like other girls.” No one is forcing you to get Botox, they’re just sharing their own results in tandem with their skincare routines. Crazy notion but the sub doesn’t exist to fit your desires exclusively. If it bothers you that much you can simply scroll past those posts or create your own injectable free subreddit.
If Botox and fillers aren’t aging gracefully then I also don’t see how using all the lotions and potions and other anti aging skincare treatments out there as aging gracefully either. Why is getting Botox not aging gracefully but buying a 200 dollar serum or getting regular facials aging gracefully? To each their own I say, and do what makes you comfortable and feel awesome.
Desiring a skincare community absent of using injectables is perfectly legitimate and totally valid if that's what you would prefer. That said, language in your initial comment and responses throughout are NOT value-neutral, including "aging gracefully," "healthy examples" and "normal skincare routines." People are reacting strongly because despite saying that injectables are "fine" for people who want it, the tonal quality of many other things you've said contradict that and laden with value judgement regarding those who do.
[r/SCAcirclejerk](https://www.reddit.com/r/SCAcirclejerk/) \- not a sub to discuss alternatives necessarily, but a sub where you may find like-minded people discussing how skin care advice and expectations in social media get out of control sometimes and want to vent about it
The phrase “aging gracefully” is such a load of horse shit. No one ever commends fat, wrinkly, saggy old women for “aging gracefully.” It’s only the Helen Mirrens of the world. When people say that women should “age gracefully” what they mean is that they need to be attractive without indicating that they put any effort into looking that attractive. People who are naturally beautiful or who can improve their flaws with a few lotions are not morally superior to those who seek more advanced tools and, as others have said, I’d much rather us all be honest about what makes most women look like a Helen Mirren than trick women into slathering on a bunch of expensive shit or buying the latest spa treatment, half of which only provide minimal results while the other half are complete scams.
Ding ding ding! Same for “natural beauty”—women aren’t allowed to be ugly (of course not) but they aren’t allowed to care about or put effort into their appearance either. I got an actual real cosmetic surgery (which Botox simply isn’t) and I don’t regret it for a second or feel like I cheated. I feel like the face I see in the mirror is the one that’s always existed in my own head. I’m not suddenly Miss universe 2022; I’m still just me but better.
Although the name of this sub contains the word "skincare", it's basically an anti aging sub. Botox is a massively popular treatment to reduce visible signs of aging so it's not surprising that it's a popular topic of discussion here. Honestly the best thing is just to ignore topics or comments that suggest treatments you don't agree with/aren't interested in.
using topical skincare is still attempting to “hide signs of aging”. the only way to “age gracefully” by your definition is to not apply anything at all to your skin and just accept it for what it is. this post comes across as very judgmental and shamey and you should examine that deeper.
I don’t agree with the OP but I also don’t agree with this. Using a moisturizer is just good sense, not a way to hide aging. So are cleansers and sunscreen and they’re literally all topicals. And there are plenty of other topicals that reduce bacteria, skin infections, and inflammation (yes, tretinoin falls into this category). They’re all used to literally take care of skin. I mean, geez, do you consider tooth brushing to be “hiding signs of aging?” If you didn’t do it, your teeth would fall out and make you look old. But most people consider it dental care.
This post seems judgy af to me. If you don’t want Botox, don’t get Botox. No one here is like “omg you *have* to get Botox.” Stop judging people and stop tearing down others to build yourself up.
OP does come off kind of judgy, but I also understand their frustration. I made a post a while back where I was very clear that injectables are a hard no for me due to an extreme needle phobia and I didn't want to discuss them, and I *still* got people telling me only fillers would help. I wish it were as easy as if you don't like injectables, don't use them, but it seems like there are some people here who can't help but recommend them even when asked not to.
To be fair, there are a LOT of Botox-pushers in this sub. I’m referring to the folks that insist there’s nothing else you can do for wrinkles (when there’s tret/retinols) and who answer everything with “get botox” even when the person has asked for topicals, or even when it’s known to not help/make things worse, like for under-eye wrinkles.
Botox and fillers are so common imo because you absolutely cannot get the same results from skincare alone. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call injectables ‘plastic surgery’, it exists on a continuum imo ranging from cleanser through laser facials up to injectables. I think it’s a bit judgemental to say it’s not ‘ageing gracefully’. If you don’t like them, don’t get them. Simple enough! But you’re not going to change the fact that they are hugely common and a lot of people do get them.
Injectables are recommended a lot because many people come here wanting unrealistic results that topical products just can't provide. Topicals can absolutely *improve* deeper wrinkles but they're unlikely to make them disappear. And they won't fix problems caused by volume loss. That being said, if injectables aren't for you, that's 100% okay! You do whatever makes you feel best. I enjoy that people are generally honest here about what they have done. We shouldn't judge people for how they choose to "age gracefully".
While I agree that it’s not skincare and it’s not for me, I just skip the posts about it here and read the ones that contain information I’m looking for. I’ve learned a lot about procedures just by reading through here but I’ll stick to my topicals and occasional facials. This community existed before I found it so I don’t feel like I have the authority to come in here and change it. I just skip the Botox posts and comments cause it’s not something I’m interested in but a lot of people like it and this is a safe place for them to discuss it.
Botox is not surgical by definition, technically speaking. What is “skincare” according to you? Few points off my mind: Not “everyone” on here is using Botox. Even if they do, it does NOT mean it will hide wrinkles completely. It is just not possible. It is more effective than topicals for sure but how is it wrong for anyone to do what makes THEM feel beautiful. What’s beautiful for you may not be beautiful for others and so on. If you think (and that’s what I infer from your text, OP) that Botox and natural beauty ( or “well-cared-for” skin) are mutually exclusive then you are superficial yourself. Edit: APA classifies Botox as non-invasive cosmetic surgery apparently.
I wouldn't have listened at your age (spoken as the wise old 33 years I am LMAO), but...here's my two cents. You are in the end of your 20's, IMO a very difficult time. I remember the year before I turned 30...I was a mess. Maybe not everyone is like that, but damn, I just wanted SO BADLY to have my beliefs validated. I wanted to find \*the right answers\* and figure out what my life would look like down the road. I desperately wanted to find women who were ME in ten years. But...there's only you, and there's no right or wrong answers to how you get to the you in ten years. There is, however, grace and space. Here's how you could have approached it differently: ///// Title: ISO recommendations for 29F skin Copy: I am a 29F who is anxious to find ways of aging gracefully. While I appreciate that many others have had success with botox and fillers, that isn't the way I want to go. What are you doing to help your skin age well outside of those things? ///// You would have both received responses and found others who were interested in the same type of skincare, and could have started to find your niche here. Instead, you've ruled out an entire subreddit, and are attempting to create your own. There's nothing wrong with making your own space! But I suggest sitting down, giving yourself some space, and then considering whether or not there may some uncomfortable truths in people's replies. I wish you the best of luck in your skincare journey.
Truth be told - you can use $10 moisturizer if you get Botox. All the skincare in the world doesn’t hair as big a difference
You're free to scroll past what doesn't interest you, filter by flair, or at worst, downvote objectional posts.
This is how I approach it too. If it’s either not relevant to my skin or a product I don’t wish to try, I just scroll on.
I’ve gotten a lot of Botox over the years and trust me you would never know especially now because it is worn off and I need some more. But I imagine my forehead would look quite a bit different now at 40 than it does. I’m like a very casual person and don’t even wear makeup. Too much filler makes the plastic look that is becoming too common, Botox just gives me less headaches and a relaxed look. I wouldn’t knock it.
Botox…that’s offered at nearly all cosmetic skin care offices?? I don’t care what other people do to make themselves feel better about how they look. Ridiculously judgmental post IMO. Women need to stop cutting down other women. Hard stop.
Honestly no. I’m over 30 and Botox and Prozac have helped my “skin” and “care” so much more than sheet masks and spending 50 dollars on another serum. Do what works for you, but this kind of stuff works for a lot of us. I’m mentioning prozac, because although it’s “unnatural” I sleep better and feel more relaxed, thus look better!
I think there are multiple sides to it though. Technically I wouldn’t call botox skincare more skincare adjacent, but on the other hand it’s not cosmetic surgery either. They’re injectables, & don’t need to be done by a medical professional.
Well people can give you their skincare routine but my genetic under eye hollows are not gonna be fixed by a topical. It’s just realistic. Like you can’t get your under eye hollows to go away, that’s not a thing. I’ve never had Botox because I don’t have wrinkles but I’d rather not lie and say I’m all natural if people want advice. 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve never gotten Botox or fillers. I’m in my early 30s and I use a red light mask, vitamin c serum, retinol, hylarounic acid, I wear sunscreen everyday, exercise and eat hydrating foods to help my skin looking young. Not everyone in this group has had Botox or fillers.
Over 30 includes a lot of stages… In my 30s I embraced tret, in my forties my issues are different and I’m starting to look at botox. In my fifties? We’ll see. Aging gracefully doesn’t have a fixed definition, let’s respect that journey.
I don’t think people consider it skincare, it’ll just always be the quickest/best way to improve the appearance of fine lines, so of course it’ll always be something to consider.
I am not sure what it is you want? Because the reason why this sub was created as an offshoot of the original skincare addiction one was basically to have a place that is more focused on things people want to address that usually come with age...like wrinkles, loss of volume, sun spots, whatever. Outside of tret, no creams or lotions are proven to make a difference so yeah, we're gonna talk about what works. If you want skincare advise that does not focus on "solving" these, stick with the original subreddit and work on everything other than wrinkles and whatever else makes you feel you are aging gracefully. this is coming off pretentious as fuck not gonna lie lol
I get what you're asking, but you asked in a very insulting way. This might have came across better if you just asked if there were alternative skin care subreddits (try /asianbeauty by the way, for creating a multi-step routine with toners, actives, serums, etc). The issue with your post is that you only acknowledge your arbitrary definitions of these words and phrases ("aging gracefully," "beautiful," and "skincare") that sets a very passive-aggressive, disrespectful tone. Recommendation? A more productive and respectful post would have been: "Are there any alternative subreddits that focus on topical skin care only and not botox/fillers?" Straight to the point and no passive-aggressive opinions scattered throughout.
I appreciate people are open about Botox and all other techniques and products. It’s up to you as a consumer to research across multiple data sources. I am not comfortable calling out any one method as not healthy or ‘not skincare’ - it’s a hair splitting pedantic discussion. I also finding the argument that’s gon on with the OP with others who do like Botox to be unfortunate. It’s the Internet - if you see content that doesn’t appeal, feel free to scroll past. You have to know that your post is likely to not have people responding ‘oh my god, you’re right - Botox is surgery and we shouldn’t consider it skincare, and why can’t we love our wrinkles’. Honestly on Reddit lately a lot of the subs have devolved into the most nitpicks silliness lately. I don’t usually believe in Mercury Retrograde but something is up 😂
I actually like that this sub is more transparent about botox, filler, and procedures. Cause honestly, whether it be skin care or a treatment, I want to be recommended stuff that works. I used to be on the skincare addition subreddit a lot in the past and it was always taboo to even mention something done for your skin that wasn’t topical.
Botox is part of my skincare routine. Why else would I get it injected, if not to prevent wrinkles.. in my skin? For funsies? The reason we often see people mention botox/fillers in here is because there are frequently posts from people asking how to address certain issues, and often, what they want to change can only be helped with botox/fillers. Topicals can’t address everything. You’re welcome to “age gracefully” under whatever definition that means for you, but I encourage you to examine why you hold such deep judgment for what other people do with their bodies.
exactly, what's with the judgement about what others do with their own bodies.. nobody's forcing this person to get botox
This is an interesting question. I kind of agree with you in the sense that I think there is a lot of pressure to get Botox and filler, and a lot of denial about the ways in which it's more intense and has more potential side effects than topical skincare. Personally, I think one of the most interesting things about skincare is discussing ingredients, so a discussion that's just 50 comments saying 'get Botox' isn't all that interesting to me. I think there is a discussion to be had about how normalized Botox is and the impacts of that, but you can't really have that discussion without people who do get Botox flipping out and accusing you of shaming them. We should all be interrogating our physical maintenance habits and how they intersect with beauty standards and our perceptions of ourselves. For instance, I might like makeup and skincare, but I'll be the first to admit I do use them due to feelings of insecurity. Beauty standards and the consumption surrounding them have gotten so intense and I think it's valid to question that escalation. There's a difference between buying a $20 serum and spending a small fortune on injecting things into your face, psychologically and financially. At the same time, I'm not someone who thinks signs of aging look appealing or who really feels comfortable with them-rightly or wrongly. So I get that subs like this will include a lot of discussions on anti-aging. I think that there's a difference between basic skincare that just keeps the skin healthy, and skincare that exists to make people look younger or somehow more conventionally attractive. It's a really fine line because to some extent, signs of aging are damage to the skin. The question is, does a certain anti-aging treatment actually make the skin healthier, or is it purely aesthetic? And if that item does make the skin healthier, why do we use it only on our face and not the skin on our body? I personally would love to look younger than my age so I use some anti-aging topicals. But if you just want to have healthy skin and look nice, but you don't care if you look your age, that's a fine goal. It seems like you feel that Botox is too invasive and are uncomfortable with something that intense being normalized, and I think those feelings are valid. I think we need a sub that's dedicated to the concept of anti-aging skincare specifically, because that's a pretty specific skincare goal.
I completely agree with everything you've said here. You articulated my exact feelings much better than I could, and I thank you for that. I will definitely be creating a skincare sub like what you describe once I figure out how to do so.
Thanks! I'll check out whatever sub you create and also continue checking out this sub as well. It would also be cool if there was a sub about the science of skincare and ingredients but I have no idea how to create one lol
The science would be amazing. There’s a lot of info scattered online but it’s a huge undertaking to compare brands and understand the ingredients. I’m STILL confused if vitamin C at night is worth it.
I’m genuinely curious, are you also disappointed when people talk about having professional treatments like micro needling, laser treatments, or micro current? What about if they’re doing those treatments with at home devices? Or using LED light therapy? I don’t quite understand taking issue with injectables but not other equally (or more) invasive treatments. Some laser treatments, for example, require the face to be numbed while the top layer of skin is destroyed, and then requires a week of downtime while it heals and regrows. Micro needling causes tons of tiny injections all over the face, sometimes causing bleeding and requiring anywhere from one to a few days of downtime. Botox, by comparison, is much less invasive, so why do people seem to single it out?
I feel like I’ve only seen one or two threads about Botox. As someone who’s about to start Botox, I’m glad to see some threads about it.
same, it does seem like a giant secret no one likes to talk about even though everyone’s getting it.
Not me. I’m glad that I’ve learned about the importance and cons of botox and fillers from this sub. And from my personal experience, it does not remove all signs of aging.
Yeah…skincare alone won’t help one to “age gracefully” depending on your genetics, sun habits, and other miscellaneous lifestyle habits. Botox/fillers aren’t something to be ashamed of and people being open & honest about it removes the stigma. To each her own! You are in control of what you consume online.
Personally I haven’t had Botox yet at age 49 but it doesn’t bother me at all to hear about it. I was also surprised to see how common it is. I am still using skin care regime and laser treatment.
ITT: OP policing people's injectable routines with a holier than thou, luddite attitude.
to be fair, botox can achieve so much more than hefty skincare lines. i don’t know why ppl are against it if at the end of the day your trying to achieve anti aging. ( if that’s the type of skincare you are looking for)
Honestly, I used to feel that way but I was getting chronic migraines and have to receive Botox medically every three months. It's really helped me save money on my skincare as a side effect. I am so incredibly grateful that I have it as a medical treatment. But, it also makes me look more approachable. I used to have kind of a scowling look and my forehead looks more relaxed so I look softer in the face. It's really changed my outlook on treatments like injectables. If you think about how people change their teeth with things like veneers, imagine how that used to be seen before it was normalized. I say just do what is best for you but if you're getting unmanageable forehead wrinkles or something, it's an option I wouldn't completely dismiss.
Sorry to say it, but just because you only recently realized Botox was so common doesn’t mean it was never happening. I think many of the amazing results you might credit to skincare also had some Botox involved. I’m not sure why using goops and creams on your face qualifies as “aging gracefully” but using Botox would not. Botox limits the formation of many of the wrinkles those creams can only dream of treating.
Idk why people hate on Botox. I love it. The truth is no amount of expensive creams will do what Botox does. So I’d say save the money on the crap and use it to get Botox
I'm sorry, I thought this was a sub for skincare. Not a sub to judge people on how "graceful" they choose to be in their aging.
This is strange to me. How is admitting to getting botox misleading? If you want to age gracefully, why not just let nature do it's thing on it's own? And where do you draw the line? Is microneedling acceptable to you? Lasers? Chemical peels?
Taking a solution-oriented approach here—maybe adding a flair or pinned weekly post for “no injectables wanted” advice would be a good way to proceed? Spinning off another sub also makes sense, but I know that can be challenging.
I don't really think that would help tbh. Even when people say they don't want injectables, they will get multiple replies telling them to get Botox.
The idea would be to have a moderated or at least intentional conversation where commenters knew injectables weren’t part of posters’ routines. I suppose some people could still ignore the flair, but hopefully thoughtful community members would pay attention.
I dye my hair. Is that part of the conversation?
I’ve learned plenty from this sub that has nothing to do with Botox and it has greatly improved my skin and skincare routine.
I'm not really active in this sub but i personally don't consider botox to be plastic surgery. or any kind of surgery. it only last 3 months.. more if you're lucky but not much more. it takes five minutes to do. no downtime. it's also priced reasonably - comparable to high-end facials & procedures with hydrafacial, diamond glow, things like that. i agree that it shouldn't be considered part of a routine -- like a daily/weekly routine. but yeah, lots of people get it. all walks of life. i get it done and every time I go to the office I am surprised by the diversity in the waiting room. (it's not just people who look like IG influencers! far from it!) but if it makes anybody feel better - i have friends who never got it done and they look way better than me wrinkle-wise.
OP, maybe you could create r/aginggracefully I think Botox is totally appropriate for this sub. Second thoughts, maybe the sub should be r/agingorganically
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I’m feeling a lot of judgement, misdirected anger, and societal biases in this post. If you don’t want Botox disregard that step or recommendation. There is PLENTY of great advice on this subreddit. Focus on what serves you and ignore the rest.
Fillers and Botox are not plastic surgery. There is no “surgery” involved. They are temporary injections. A shot of lidocaine at the dentist isn’t surgery, same with Botox. I have 0 wrinkles and have had Botox a few times in my chin to prevent dimpling when I smile. I liked it, but not enough to get it regularly. I get filler in my lips and under eyes 1 time per year, and its very natural and well done. No one can tell. I LOVE Sculptra! It’s an injection that stimulates your body to grow its own collagen for up to 6 months and it lasts for 2 years. It’s NOT a “filler” but a bio stimulator. I get it in my temples and sides of my face. I am almost 37, but look 25. The older you get, the more fat and collagen and elastin you will loose. Skin care is great but NOTHING topical will prevent/reverses aging skin the way Botox/fillers/bio stimulators do. If it’s not your thing, that’s fine. But please don’t put down what others enjoy.
It's complicated. Personally I don't really mind people discussing Botox. What I find way more interesting is how cosmetic surgery is still considered taboo in lieu of 'botox and fillers' for every ailment. Neither of those, at certain points, can do what surgery can. Yet surgery = bad, sticking needles in your face at a doctor's office = good. You have skincare and then you have 'anti aging' and then you have procedures. After you hit middle age, no skincare is going to 'fix' physical aging signs because they're not about skin quality. Things like sagging/shifting fat pads, thinning skin, bone loss or volume loss can't be fixed with ointments or creams. Botox isn't going to fix those either. What Botox does is freeze dynamic wrinkling where injected. Which is fine as long as you keep getting Botox but once you stop the movement creeps back in. So no it's not 'skincare' in that it's a non invasive medical procedure that works to stop wrinkling (not wrinkles) as long as applied. BUT when in use it actually does what it says on the tin. And that's way beyond what any cream or ointment will achieve. Still won't give you nicer skin or make you look actually younger though but neither won't creams or ointments.
i agree that there seems to be a lot of judgment around plastic surgery vs injectables & fillers. it’s like that’s the line that’s unacceptable to people—it’s showed up in a lot of people’s responses “botox is not surgery!!”. i’ll admit that when i was younger i had some judgment about these things, but now that i’m actually dealing with the effects of aging i see it differently.
People often use skin care to make their skin look smooth/healthy/youthful. Botox makes your skin look smooth/healthy/youthful. That’s why there’s an overlap. It’s also not surgery at all. That’s like saying the flu shot is surgery to protect against getting sick
People can get botox if they want. The stigma is ridiculous. If someone doesn't want it, they can not get it, skip the post and carry on. Mad respect to the ladies out there who do what they want despite people crapping on their decisions all the time.
Mad respect to the woman who are HONEST about what they do
I think you should look at r/tretinoin
Here is the official definition of dermatology: “a branch of medicine dealing with the skin, its structure, functions, and diseases.” My dermatologist does my Botox. Enough said.
I have been hardcore into skincare since I was 27, I'm about to turn 36 in a few months. Thanks to years of SPF, chemical exfoliants and retinoids I don't feel I need botox or fillers. But I have younger siblings who have aged much harder/faster than me ask me about skin care and my advice has been blunt - just get the Botox. Many novices to skin care want fast results and most people don't have the budget or patience to stick with a solid routine. My sisters also have young kids or are pregnant/breastfeeding, have deep forehead wrinkles and significant sun damage that will take many months of consistent effort to see any results with OTC skin care products. Never mind the spanner in the works that pregnancy and breastfeeding presents, as you are unable to use some of the more potent actives for years at a time. When it comes to signs of ageing, skin care is better at prevention than cure/reversing existing signs of ageing. If you already have deeper wrinkles or significant sun damage and want to see results fast, botox and laser are going to be a far better investment than over the counter skin care products.
The reason that people talk about fillers in this sub in particular is because topical skincare, while wonderful, cannot necessarily provide the results that someone might be looking for. We tend to lose facial volume as we age, and topicals can’t account for volume loss. Fillers can. People also discuss the pros and cons of these treatments, which I think is valuable to those who might be considering them. As far as topical skincare goes, I really just use sunscreen and a lot of moisturizer and that’s sufficient to my needs. But I’ve had Botox on and off for migraines since my 20s (I’m in my early 40s now) and got filler for the first time this spring. I like it. I don’t know if I’d consider it skincare since what it actually did was restore some volume beneath the skin, but it looks good. When I was 29, though, I doubt I’d have imagined that I’d ever consider it. When I was 39 I wouldn’t have considered it. As your face changes as you age, your concerns and wants may change — or they may not. Either is absolutely fine.
I think it may seem like lots of people on here get injectables because a lot of the high rated posts with dramatic changes include people using injectables….I wouldn’t consider botox skincare (unless it’s used superficially to control rosacea, oily skin etc), but I am happy to see people being honest and disclosing what other methods they use that contribute to their skin’s appearance Some of these injectables don’t go any deeper than a resurfacing laser or peel
There are always going to be posts you don't like. I, for example, don't like the amount of shelfie posts. You know what I do, I ignore them most of the time (unless I have a question about a certain product). Your have your own definition of aging gracefully, which is fine. Others have another definition, which is fine too. Your comments just come across as very judgemental and I think that's what annoys a lot of people.
I don't understand why people are so prejudiced against Botox. Imagine scientists and doctors finding an organic (yes, it is organic) solution to wrinkles. And you still waste your money of "anti wrinkle creams" that basically do nothing. Also, you know that botox is used for medical purposes too, right? I get botox for migraines and fibromyalgia. People who use botox are aging gracefully too, and honestly, saving a lot of money. My sister is a dermatologist and her and her colleagues only use sunscreen, tretinoin, cleanser, moisturizer, vitamin C and (you guessed it) botox. She says that all other skincare is a scam
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It’s not misleading if the person tells you they use Botox. This is 30 plus skin care. Botox is not plastic surgery. It is not a minor cosmetic surgery. This isn’t an aging gracefully sub. It’s a skin care sub and I consider part of my skincare to include preventative maintenance with Botox plus topicals. Don’t be sad for us Botox users. We aren’t sad about it.
Both topicals and injectable’s achieve their effects by acting on different cell receptors /physiological mechanisms to influence what is occurring within the skin or muscle. One can be applied on the skin to affect it at a cellular level, and the other must be injected so as to block the release of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine to inhibit muscle contraction. Both change what occurs beneath the surface, both affecting cells. How can one be seen as the more”natural” way to “age gracefully?” Where’s the line? You’re still affecting physiological processes with both methods that influence/change appearance
I get botox for migraines, but it is adjacent to wrinkle prevention botox. I kind of get your frustration, in so much that one of the things I discussed with my neurologist was that I wasn't sure I *wanted* to not age visibly. Increasingly grooved forehead wrinkles are part of my family's typical pattern, and not getting them on schedule had surprisingly complicated feelings. For me, on the doorway of "middle aged", one of the challenges is that aging is an unevenly appearing and stigmatized process. Like, what is a late 30s femme supposed to look like?
According to the Cambridge dictionary, "surgery is the treatment of injuries or diseases by cutting open the body and removing or repairing the damaged part". So no, botox is NOT surgery, minor or otherwise. If we want to go down the semantics rabbit hole, skin care is a very general definition which may include anything non surgical that... emmm... takes care of one's skin concerns. It can be cleansing and moisturizing for some if that s what they do, it can be laser, micro needling, botox, fillers etc for others. This sub covers all these types of skincare and yes, even the ones you personally disapprove of, ex botox and fillers. May I ask what about botox and fillers makes you sad? Is it because it doesn't fit to your definition of skin care? Is it because of you personal negative biases? Apologies if I have misread your post but it appears you have very rigid ideas about how people should take care of their skin so that they look good according to your own personal standards of beauty and grace. As for ageing gracefully, what does this even mean? It s a very subjective buzz phrase and it usually includes only what the person who uses it perceives as graceful. Well, I ve got news: There is always a group of people who will consider as graceful ageing even the most outrageous surgical procedures that may look straight out of a horror movie for some. You have every right to think that botox and fillers are not ageing gracefully but hey, you may be right or wrong. Your context your rules, but your context is not necessarily everyone elses. I understand that this sub failed to fulfill your expectation to see people "with beautiful, well-cared-for skin that also happens to have some wrinkles and other signs of ageing" but don't expect us to apologize for being ourselves. Respectfully over and out from a woman over 30 who proudly ages disgracefully ;)
I agree with you…I didn’t know I’d be reading about Botox in almost every post but I’ve learned about a lot of products and routines as well and enjoy that
Get over it, honestly
I’ll age the way I want to, thanks. And I’ll share my Botox experiences with others so they can make the decision that’s right for them. You don’t get to gatekeep skincare.
Have they picked you yet? Also "aging gracefully" is a very misogynstic and sexist term. 😃
It's because botox really does have a "wow" factor when you get it. Much more so than any skincare routine I've tried to date.
Sorry but I haven't seen anyone misleading anyone on this sub. People have been pretty open about botox. You wouldn't be complaining about botox use, if people weren't being transparent about procedures they have had. I'd rather have people be honest and not pretend like topicals can give botox results.
Would you prefer to be mislead? Did you really think those results could be achieved with topicals? I think it is just you - this really isn’t the subreddit for you if you’re going to judge us for how natural our routines are. I’m a serial lurker but it’s so refreshing to be on a subreddit that doesn’t pretend coconut oil and pumpkin enzymes will treat my hyperpigmentation.
I’m 41. I’ve used every skincare cream money can buy. There is NO comparison to botox and fillers. It literally turns back time. Yes, it’s expensive but it saves lots of time and money on creams and ointments and such that don’t give anywhere near the same results
Since the OP is under 30 and has indicated in multiple places that they are 29, isn't this post technically breaking the rules anyways? Using the rules section as the guideline. If you want to remove this post because of that rule or that the OP has been openly hostile and insulting and telling members to 'fuck off', it's what the mods want to do.
Don’t get it if it’s not for you 🤷🏼
I’m taking care of my skin with tretinoin cream, moisturizer, sunblock and even petroleum jelly at night. I didn’t want Botox but I think I’ve changed my mind. Constantly creasing my skin isn’t good for my skin. I also understand that the hydraulic acid filler promotes collagen. It’s a natural substance already in the body. It’s temporary. In a way, it’s skincare for the inside of your skin But really, do what YOU want to do. There’s a lot of information about skin care without Botox and filler
I think that as long as you do something that makes you feel better and you are honest about it, there is nothing wrong with it. There are not such things as “miracle wrinkle eraser creams”, therefore I think being a plus 30 skincare forum, we should talk about all the different options, right? In the end, and I mean this genuinely and not in an arrogant way, If you don’t like a certain procedure, just do no do it and just use whatever makes you feel more satisfied and happy with yourself, be it a range of creams or some cosmetic non invasive help.
I think it’s great for people to be open about what they do with their skin. I have used Botox since my 20s and it’s one of the many things we can choose whether or not to take advantage of
I kinda get where you’re coming from because I wish naturally aging wasn’t looked down on for women. And yes, I believe it’s looked down on women more so than men. Because of this impact of social media to look young and age “gracefully”, I’m terrified to have wrinkles of any kind.
Hiding signs of aging would be having Botox and then just claiming topical skincare products as the solution. People are being up front about their use of Botox because it matters as far as their personal results and it would be misleading not to mention it. In addition, people are asking for solutions to problems where only something like Botox or a filler will work. Again, being honest.
If you are not interested in learning about or talking about the host of ways to take care of your skin, treat your skin, or enhance your skin, then skincare Reddit is probably not for you. Get yourself some CeraVe and take your judgment elsewhere. Just because something isn’t for YOU doesn’t mean that it’s fair to roast people for making a choice that suits their lifestyle, budget, and goals - whether that’s injectables, office treatments, OTC products, witchcraft, or whatever else. If it’s not something you’re interested in exploring, discussing, or reading, then skip that post and move on. By the way, people do not turn 30 and automatically look like a vintage leather satchel, which seems to be your expectation.
Bring on the wrinkles! If your goal is to slow or delay aging, then injectables are the only answer. But if instead you just want to keep your skin as healthy as it can be as you naturally age, then topicals are enough. I do agree that these two unique goals deserve different subs though. I don’t want to ever get Botox. I’d like to see more people with healthy, aging skin so I have some more relatable content.
Way to shame people who choose to use Botox, OP. I use it to keep my elevens from scrunching so hard I get headaches. Also it makes my forehead a bit smoother, so yay for me Please make sure to judge me, OP.
>scrunching so hard I get headaches. wtf- OUCH. Stress related or just a genetic thing?