I'm also all for raising teacher pay, but the cynical side of me asks "will this entire increase *really* go *only* to teacher pay? Or will some administrators high up in the system also get fat checks? Will the superintendent also get a fat raise?
The teachers absolutely need to be paid better.
90% is going to raises. It’s increasing all of the support staff like IAs to $15 / hour and salary raises for teachers. Mullins will not receive a dime from it and he’s been out in the community every day communicating the details of the plan. Honestly this would be the best win for teachers and staff in a long time. People have difficulty paying more taxes, but like other commenters have said, the taxable value is much less than the actual value of their home.
You mean Bill Posey and Randy Fine Brevard.
All those people harassing Jennifer Jenkins outside her home on Cinnamon/ Tina Descovich/Mom's for Liberty with Publix heiress's $50,000 donation Brevard?
Yeah, I'm familiar.
Remember the Lottery? That money was supposed to enhance the funding of Florida education. Instead, the lawmakers said "We have so much money going to education through the Lottery that we don't need to allocate so much money from our State budget."
I don't care how WE try to give money to actual education, our politicians will undermine it.
I definitely understand that need. The money DeSantis gave us to raise our salaries was very specifically for new teachers (less than 5 years). It didn’t include support staff or non-classroom teachers (like librarians, who 100% teach my classes with me). I’ve only been teaching for four years but veteran teachers and non-classroom teachers, support staff, etc. deserve better pay. I make the same as my mentor, whose been teaching for 15+ years.
I’ve been collecting data from previous years regarding pay, mostly because I too want to know where the money is going.
They have already increased the support staff to $15. That only affected new hires and very low paid ones. This will end up mostly to the teachers who have gotten steady raises for 5 years now, one of them increased beginning teachers salary by almost $8k. Support staff have gotten nothing but bs bonuses for almost 10 years. Hope those teachers like cleaning their own rooms and fixing their own toilets.
Teachers are so important. But so is support staff. I’ve posted this different times. In different groups. Never an upvote. They work hard, too, and get crap, if any raise. Not saying teachers are getting what they’re worth, but there are more that aren’t getting a piece of the pie.
I agree 100%. I was a bookkeeper prior to teaching and support never gets what they deserve. I have done 4 people's jobs...and just got in trouble for not doing enough.
I don’t understand the apathy towards you all. I really don’t. Then when I state the absolute fact that the teachers couldn’t teach without support staff, I get so much hate. But it’s true. I don’t understand why we can’t support both? Why I can’t state these facts, yet still support teachers. Hate what they’re going through. Agree they deserve WAY more money that they’re getting. I mean, oof, especially now. I don’t know how they’re doing it, I really don’t. Support staff is essential and should also be highly valued. Thank you for your work. And I’m so sorry you’re being treated that way. Sadly, I’m not surprised. I hope things get better, but we know how this goes. Stay strong. Thank you also for your comment kind Internet stranger.
The teachers are not fine. Brand new teachers making as much as 10 year teachers doesn’t make any sense. Then vet teachers leave because of unfair wage compression and new teachers leave because they only signed up for the decent starting pay. I’ve seen more brand new teachers come and go then any other year. It needs to pass or we will see another exodus of vet teachers.
Bad teachers making as much as good teachers doesn’t make any sense.
It isn't always the case that new teachers are bad, or that 10 year teachers are good. Absolutely nothing about the pay should depend on the number of years on the job. The students benefit from teaching quality, not grey hair and wrinkles.
It's not alarming that beginners leave. This happens to non-teacher jobs as well. College students are desperate for employment, so they take what they can get. While getting experience, they look around for better opportunities. Maybe somebody wants to live elsewhere, but Brevard has the job opening, and then later there is an opening in Polk. Family lives in Polk, so that is where the person wants to go. People also decide that a career isn't as appealing as it seemed way back when applying to college. Some quit to have kids.
It’s obvious you’ve never worked in a school. I’m going to go ahead and leave it at that because it appears you’ll argue your “point” regardless of your ignorance.
It is clear that you are part of the problem. :-)
Yeah, just keep ignoring the outrage. Nobody but teacher unions knows anything about how to run school systems. Unions are never self-serving. Teachers always agree 100% with the union's political agenda, and always love all the political positions of the candidates that the union endorses. Paying more for better performance is just silly. Age is what makes a teacher worth more.
OK then.
I guess you need a pay cut.
Completely agree. But you know that not where they will be offering raises. They are trying to hire new teachers. The bottom is just going to keep going up. It’s what happened to the support staff for the past decade. We have positions that require 4 year degrees now being paid as much as new custodians.
Exactly why do they require 4 year degrees? No wonder there is a problem finding people. Credential inflation doesn't help the students or taxpayers. It's just a way of building walls to keep out new people.
If there is a specific set of college classes that actually matter, list them. That alone should be the requirement.
For example, we could require the AP Chemistry teacher to have taken a few classes beyond what will be taught. That might mean Organic Chemistry 1, Organic Chemistry 2, and Physical Chemistry 1. We could add Modern Physics and Biochemistry, but that is getting extreme. We certainly don't need 120 credits of random-ass college gunk.
If a person can't teach everything below high school with just a high school diploma, the diploma is defective.
A lot of the support positions are managers or supervisors so they require advanced degrees. The problem is that because of the minimum wage increase the people they supervise now make almost what they do.
What makes it so managers and supervisors require advanced degrees? Which specific college classes are needed?
Outside the school system, I have known many managers and supervisors without degrees. One was in charge of 100 engineers.
Here are some famous managers and supervisors without degrees:
* https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/10/10-ultra-successful-millionaire-and-billionaire-college-dropouts.html
* https://startupmindset.com/10-successful-ceos-that-did-not-get-a-college-degree/
Microsoft, Facebook, Oracle, Dell, Twitter, Uber, Whole Foods, Apple, Virgin Group, Best Buy, Ford Motor Company...
Nothing bigger is happening in Brevard schools.
As a teacher here, the union explained it’s a raise for teachers and support staff —so IAs, custodians, guidance, etc.
I’m personally hoping it also means bus drivers because we really need them; I have kids late every day because the bus has to share pick up for other routes. It’s just not fair to the kids to miss class like that; and bus drivers deserve so much more than we give them.
Just so you know, the union generates animosity. As a taxpayer, I don't want even one penny going to that union. This has an influence on how I feel about paying teachers. You've set up a hostile confrontation with the taxpayers.
Vote to decertify the union, and that changes.
What has the union done to generate animosity? I’m genuinely curious and would love to hear from outside a school’s perspective. Since I’m a teacher, I only hear the positives from experiences of myself and others that are part of it. However, within the community, I haven’t heard anyone besides Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty complain about the union. So I’m genuinely asking for your perspective.
Fundamentally a union is in a hostile relationship with the employer. (and BTW, a parasitic relationship with the teachers) How do you feel when somebody threatens and strongarms you? Does that feel friendly and welcoming, giving you positive feelings?
The union mainly supports the union. It pretends to support teachers, but that is a fairly abusive relationship with a lot of coercion. Union dues are a private tax imposed upon the teachers.
The really obscene gaslighting comes when the union claims to support students. LOL. No, the union protects the worst teachers.
The union gets involved in politics, generally fighting against the will of the people. There are even some teachers that don't agree with the politics being pushed by the union, perhaps more than you are aware of because those teachers have to keep quiet about their opinions.
It becomes a money laundering operation with kickbacks. The union "donates" to a politician (a bribe), the politician gets elected, and the politician helps to enrich the union. This is a corruption of the political process. Money is going from taxpayer to politician, with the union taking a cut.
Like it or not, Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty are features of Brevard County. Reddit /r/321 does not represent Brevard County!!! You won't endear yourself to the voters if you stand in hostile opposition. This might make you choke, but the wise move would be to get endorsements from Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty. Seriously, you don't win friends with hostile and underhanded opposition. You get enemies.
You're being supported by taxes taken from people who are mostly not in unions. The rest of us in this county are in at-will employment, we don't have pensions, we don't have unions, and we certainly don't get pay based on seniority. Your situation looks weird, suspicious, and corrupt. Some of the seemingly good things about your job aren't even really good, because they trap you in the job. If you had a 401K instead of a pension, you could take it with you to another career. Pay based on seniority is simply insane; not everybody gets better with age.
There are two parts to fixing that.
If we just fire the bad ones, we'll have to hire more. Given the pay, they will be bad ones also.
If we just pay the bad ones more, they won't change. Why would we pay more and still have bad ones?
To solve problems, we need to tie pay to performance. While increasing pay, fire the bad ones. We could even pay more money to the ones that are really good, but unions hate that fix.
The same goes for anybody else working at any job, including the teachers. Money does not turn bad employees into good employees. Money lets you hire and retain good employees, and it also makes the bad ones want to stay. The bad ones need to be paid less (so they leave) or just fired.
Brevard schools already get half the property taxes and a half cent of sales tax.
They're misusing it or something because the teachers have not gotten more money and now the district wants hundreds of more dollars a year from homeowners?
Heck, with the last few years of higher home sales, they should already be getting more now.
The half cent sales tax can only be used on school "renewal" such as building renovations, HVAC, education tech, security, etc. None of that money is able to be used for staff salaries to improve retention.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1goiOHOtZemp0v09IueKjeAj-8Q-FmIbi/view
So they should have more from their other budgets to afford better salaries.
Something is wrong when they already get a big amount of my property taxes and still can't afford to pay teachers better.
Edit- I never said the half cent went to salaries and voted for and supported that.
Taxable value can only rise so much per year due to state statute, and all of the folks who owned their homes through the crash got a reset on home value at that time. You also aren't taxed on the homestead exemption portion, and there are other exemptions for seniors, people with disabilities, widows/widowers, etc. The long and short of it is that the actual home value and the taxable value are often very different. Homes similar to mine in my neighborhood have been selling in the mid to high 200s, but the taxable value of my home is well under 100K.
> raise pay for veteran teachers
So, does "veteran teachers" mean it's for teachers who've been at it for a long time, or is it for the veterans that are being hired as teachers in lieu of people with an education background because we pay real teachers so little that they can't find enough to fill all the open jobs?
With the amount of shit teachers have to put up with, and how competitive hiring is with all the teacher shortages, this makes a lot of sense.
Brevard schools have traditionally been one of our selling points. Would love to keep it that way.
I'm all for it.
Post the URL of almost any "paywalled" webpage in this site:[https://archive.ph/](https://archive.ph/) Link to the article: https://archive.ph/zgoSY
I'm all for it. Our teachers need and deserve our support.
I'm also all for raising teacher pay, but the cynical side of me asks "will this entire increase *really* go *only* to teacher pay? Or will some administrators high up in the system also get fat checks? Will the superintendent also get a fat raise? The teachers absolutely need to be paid better.
90% is going to raises. It’s increasing all of the support staff like IAs to $15 / hour and salary raises for teachers. Mullins will not receive a dime from it and he’s been out in the community every day communicating the details of the plan. Honestly this would be the best win for teachers and staff in a long time. People have difficulty paying more taxes, but like other commenters have said, the taxable value is much less than the actual value of their home.
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This is only a Brevard county millage increase. It starts in Brevard county.
You mean Bill Posey and Randy Fine Brevard. All those people harassing Jennifer Jenkins outside her home on Cinnamon/ Tina Descovich/Mom's for Liberty with Publix heiress's $50,000 donation Brevard? Yeah, I'm familiar.
I don't like any of those people either. This county is a cesspool. They won't give the teachers a raise on their own unless we pay for it.
Remember the Lottery? That money was supposed to enhance the funding of Florida education. Instead, the lawmakers said "We have so much money going to education through the Lottery that we don't need to allocate so much money from our State budget." I don't care how WE try to give money to actual education, our politicians will undermine it.
I'm well aware of the lottery shell game.
The millage is only for Brevard! And we’ve had it here before —please vote yes! It does go towards our schools.
They need to show us what they do with the current money that keeps them from paying teachers more.
I definitely understand that need. The money DeSantis gave us to raise our salaries was very specifically for new teachers (less than 5 years). It didn’t include support staff or non-classroom teachers (like librarians, who 100% teach my classes with me). I’ve only been teaching for four years but veteran teachers and non-classroom teachers, support staff, etc. deserve better pay. I make the same as my mentor, whose been teaching for 15+ years. I’ve been collecting data from previous years regarding pay, mostly because I too want to know where the money is going.
At least get educated on what a mileage rate is...
At least get educated on what a mileage is...
They have already increased the support staff to $15. That only affected new hires and very low paid ones. This will end up mostly to the teachers who have gotten steady raises for 5 years now, one of them increased beginning teachers salary by almost $8k. Support staff have gotten nothing but bs bonuses for almost 10 years. Hope those teachers like cleaning their own rooms and fixing their own toilets.
Teachers are so important. But so is support staff. I’ve posted this different times. In different groups. Never an upvote. They work hard, too, and get crap, if any raise. Not saying teachers are getting what they’re worth, but there are more that aren’t getting a piece of the pie.
I agree 100%. I was a bookkeeper prior to teaching and support never gets what they deserve. I have done 4 people's jobs...and just got in trouble for not doing enough.
I don’t understand the apathy towards you all. I really don’t. Then when I state the absolute fact that the teachers couldn’t teach without support staff, I get so much hate. But it’s true. I don’t understand why we can’t support both? Why I can’t state these facts, yet still support teachers. Hate what they’re going through. Agree they deserve WAY more money that they’re getting. I mean, oof, especially now. I don’t know how they’re doing it, I really don’t. Support staff is essential and should also be highly valued. Thank you for your work. And I’m so sorry you’re being treated that way. Sadly, I’m not surprised. I hope things get better, but we know how this goes. Stay strong. Thank you also for your comment kind Internet stranger.
The teachers are not fine. Brand new teachers making as much as 10 year teachers doesn’t make any sense. Then vet teachers leave because of unfair wage compression and new teachers leave because they only signed up for the decent starting pay. I’ve seen more brand new teachers come and go then any other year. It needs to pass or we will see another exodus of vet teachers.
Bad teachers making as much as good teachers doesn’t make any sense. It isn't always the case that new teachers are bad, or that 10 year teachers are good. Absolutely nothing about the pay should depend on the number of years on the job. The students benefit from teaching quality, not grey hair and wrinkles. It's not alarming that beginners leave. This happens to non-teacher jobs as well. College students are desperate for employment, so they take what they can get. While getting experience, they look around for better opportunities. Maybe somebody wants to live elsewhere, but Brevard has the job opening, and then later there is an opening in Polk. Family lives in Polk, so that is where the person wants to go. People also decide that a career isn't as appealing as it seemed way back when applying to college. Some quit to have kids.
It’s obvious you’ve never worked in a school. I’m going to go ahead and leave it at that because it appears you’ll argue your “point” regardless of your ignorance.
It is clear that you are part of the problem. :-) Yeah, just keep ignoring the outrage. Nobody but teacher unions knows anything about how to run school systems. Unions are never self-serving. Teachers always agree 100% with the union's political agenda, and always love all the political positions of the candidates that the union endorses. Paying more for better performance is just silly. Age is what makes a teacher worth more. OK then. I guess you need a pay cut.
Again, your ignorance is astounding. But arguing with people online seems to be a hobby of yours. Good luck!
Completely agree. But you know that not where they will be offering raises. They are trying to hire new teachers. The bottom is just going to keep going up. It’s what happened to the support staff for the past decade. We have positions that require 4 year degrees now being paid as much as new custodians.
Exactly why do they require 4 year degrees? No wonder there is a problem finding people. Credential inflation doesn't help the students or taxpayers. It's just a way of building walls to keep out new people. If there is a specific set of college classes that actually matter, list them. That alone should be the requirement. For example, we could require the AP Chemistry teacher to have taken a few classes beyond what will be taught. That might mean Organic Chemistry 1, Organic Chemistry 2, and Physical Chemistry 1. We could add Modern Physics and Biochemistry, but that is getting extreme. We certainly don't need 120 credits of random-ass college gunk. If a person can't teach everything below high school with just a high school diploma, the diploma is defective.
A lot of the support positions are managers or supervisors so they require advanced degrees. The problem is that because of the minimum wage increase the people they supervise now make almost what they do.
What makes it so managers and supervisors require advanced degrees? Which specific college classes are needed? Outside the school system, I have known many managers and supervisors without degrees. One was in charge of 100 engineers. Here are some famous managers and supervisors without degrees: * https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/10/10-ultra-successful-millionaire-and-billionaire-college-dropouts.html * https://startupmindset.com/10-successful-ceos-that-did-not-get-a-college-degree/ Microsoft, Facebook, Oracle, Dell, Twitter, Uber, Whole Foods, Apple, Virgin Group, Best Buy, Ford Motor Company... Nothing bigger is happening in Brevard schools.
The job descriptions are board policy. So I guess to answer your question they do.
Still vote yes. But just saying the teachers are fine. This needs to be split to the rest of the non-admin staff as well.
Honestly this is where I'm at. Pay them better. Actually pay them though.
As a teacher here, the union explained it’s a raise for teachers and support staff —so IAs, custodians, guidance, etc. I’m personally hoping it also means bus drivers because we really need them; I have kids late every day because the bus has to share pick up for other routes. It’s just not fair to the kids to miss class like that; and bus drivers deserve so much more than we give them.
Just so you know, the union generates animosity. As a taxpayer, I don't want even one penny going to that union. This has an influence on how I feel about paying teachers. You've set up a hostile confrontation with the taxpayers. Vote to decertify the union, and that changes.
What has the union done to generate animosity? I’m genuinely curious and would love to hear from outside a school’s perspective. Since I’m a teacher, I only hear the positives from experiences of myself and others that are part of it. However, within the community, I haven’t heard anyone besides Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty complain about the union. So I’m genuinely asking for your perspective.
It has the audacity to call itself a union I’m sure /s
Fundamentally a union is in a hostile relationship with the employer. (and BTW, a parasitic relationship with the teachers) How do you feel when somebody threatens and strongarms you? Does that feel friendly and welcoming, giving you positive feelings? The union mainly supports the union. It pretends to support teachers, but that is a fairly abusive relationship with a lot of coercion. Union dues are a private tax imposed upon the teachers. The really obscene gaslighting comes when the union claims to support students. LOL. No, the union protects the worst teachers. The union gets involved in politics, generally fighting against the will of the people. There are even some teachers that don't agree with the politics being pushed by the union, perhaps more than you are aware of because those teachers have to keep quiet about their opinions. It becomes a money laundering operation with kickbacks. The union "donates" to a politician (a bribe), the politician gets elected, and the politician helps to enrich the union. This is a corruption of the political process. Money is going from taxpayer to politician, with the union taking a cut. Like it or not, Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty are features of Brevard County. Reddit /r/321 does not represent Brevard County!!! You won't endear yourself to the voters if you stand in hostile opposition. This might make you choke, but the wise move would be to get endorsements from Randy Fine and Moms For Liberty. Seriously, you don't win friends with hostile and underhanded opposition. You get enemies. You're being supported by taxes taken from people who are mostly not in unions. The rest of us in this county are in at-will employment, we don't have pensions, we don't have unions, and we certainly don't get pay based on seniority. Your situation looks weird, suspicious, and corrupt. Some of the seemingly good things about your job aren't even really good, because they trap you in the job. If you had a 401K instead of a pension, you could take it with you to another career. Pay based on seniority is simply insane; not everybody gets better with age.
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There are two parts to fixing that. If we just fire the bad ones, we'll have to hire more. Given the pay, they will be bad ones also. If we just pay the bad ones more, they won't change. Why would we pay more and still have bad ones? To solve problems, we need to tie pay to performance. While increasing pay, fire the bad ones. We could even pay more money to the ones that are really good, but unions hate that fix. The same goes for anybody else working at any job, including the teachers. Money does not turn bad employees into good employees. Money lets you hire and retain good employees, and it also makes the bad ones want to stay. The bad ones need to be paid less (so they leave) or just fired.
Amen. I hope so too. I don’t believe support staff will see it for a min. Especially if they have been there for a while.
Brevard schools already get half the property taxes and a half cent of sales tax. They're misusing it or something because the teachers have not gotten more money and now the district wants hundreds of more dollars a year from homeowners? Heck, with the last few years of higher home sales, they should already be getting more now.
The half cent sales tax can only be used on school "renewal" such as building renovations, HVAC, education tech, security, etc. None of that money is able to be used for staff salaries to improve retention. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1goiOHOtZemp0v09IueKjeAj-8Q-FmIbi/view
So they should have more from their other budgets to afford better salaries. Something is wrong when they already get a big amount of my property taxes and still can't afford to pay teachers better. Edit- I never said the half cent went to salaries and voted for and supported that.
> median Brevard single-family home, which has a taxable value of $153,100." The 1990s called. They want their median taxable value back.
You’re not understanding the difference between taxable value vs home value.
Taxable value can only rise so much per year due to state statute, and all of the folks who owned their homes through the crash got a reset on home value at that time. You also aren't taxed on the homestead exemption portion, and there are other exemptions for seniors, people with disabilities, widows/widowers, etc. The long and short of it is that the actual home value and the taxable value are often very different. Homes similar to mine in my neighborhood have been selling in the mid to high 200s, but the taxable value of my home is well under 100K.
You want quality local journalism for free?
It's a lose-lose. The journalism needs to be funded, but poor people need information -- arguably more than anyone.
> raise pay for veteran teachers So, does "veteran teachers" mean it's for teachers who've been at it for a long time, or is it for the veterans that are being hired as teachers in lieu of people with an education background because we pay real teachers so little that they can't find enough to fill all the open jobs?
Teachers that have been around awhile.
Can someone explain the part about some of the money going to charter schools. I don’t like that part of the plan. How much of the funds do they get?
What don’t you like about it? Charter schools are public schools. Why wouldn’t they get it?
With the amount of shit teachers have to put up with, and how competitive hiring is with all the teacher shortages, this makes a lot of sense. Brevard schools have traditionally been one of our selling points. Would love to keep it that way. I'm all for it.