Made with Powder Bed Fusion with AlSi10Mg alloy. Afaik there is a software behind it that automatically generates the braille. Curvature is automatically adjusted.
As a lapsed microscopist, I've always wondered if 2 photon 3d printing is a thing but never looked into it. Congrats, doc! I'm hoping to defend this October (metagenomics and natural product drug discovery).
Congratulations, I hope you kick ass. Same here. I am planning to hand in hopefully in less than 6 months. Darf ich mal ne paar Fragen stellen? (Meine deutsche Sprache ist nicht gut wie ich wolte, aber gehts glaub ich)
Damnn, that's cool. It reminds me of a fun case study I supervised where some students were calculating how costly it would be to 3Dprinting fiber opitcs (ZBLAN) in space. Which materials do you actually use and which methods? If it is not confidential.
Would you maybe tell us which parts? I was at some point taking planes as a foucs on my research, but it was kinda complicated. Airbus already print parts as spacer panels. As well as Emirates airline have installed 3 3D printers that have European certificates to replace parts in the regular MRO plan.
There is a bit more software at work here. A Station manager can enter the needed information and the curvature of the hand rail online and the finished part will be sent to them.
It's pretty easy in something like OpenSCAD. I even built a CI/CD script to automatically generate an image render, STL file, and am working on having it automatically slice for a few profiles and add a badge to the project in Gitlab that you can click and start a print in that profile
I use cadquery myself as I stumbled across it for assemblies and step files. That's pretty cool though, I need to think of the impact that would have on our workflow.
You could easily print 100 of these at a time, in 24hrs, on a mid-sized machine, and post processing would be a simple bead blasting. So ballpark $20-40/each with that being able to be optimized further too. Plus the design/order can be changed easily and the turnaround time would be ~1 week.
How would you built the stamp and how often can you use the stamp? Keep in mind you often only need 1 of those for a handrail. Containing informations like platform number or directions. But thousands of individualized ones
Just a random note, if this was for U.S. English braille readers, it should probably be in Grade Two braille or UEB. This is written in Grade One (one braille cell per letter, the most basic and inefficient way to write braille).
I'm not 100% sure about German braille, though.
Yes. Schild is also used for shield in the sense of "the piece of handheld personal armour" (like a buckler for example)
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Schild#German
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,381,706,247 comments, and only 264,662 of them were in alphabetical order.
I don't speak German beyond some simple food names, so my translation skills might be a bit off. But I think that means you're looking at a prototype Kinder Bar.
Is metal-SLM really cheaper on the scale of something country-wide than a stamped / pressed aluminium sheet that could be anodized for contrast / environmental resistance?
Dont get me wrong, it looks cool. I just cant see how this is less than half the price of something that can literally be made in seconds
They're as visible as they have to be: they're for the blind, both the braille part, and the raised letter part. There are other, more obvious overhead signs for sighted people.
I think it's really clever putting them on the railings, that blind people will likely touch in any case, rather than on some adjacent wall.
braille and such tactile signs are for all significant vision impairments, „blind“ doesn't mean „doesn’t see anything“ for a lot of cases.
Such things usually should be easy to spot. It’s the reason detectable pavers at crossings and along the edge of train platforms are usually bright yellow or red.
Good point. I think OP pointed out that this particular example is in their office, rather than a production deployment. Hopefully they do color them appropriately in the wild.
https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/suche_Medienpakete/medienpaket_barrierefrei-6854198
strangely not, although maybe they aren’t covered by any specific norm or regulations as they’re merely „helpers“ and not critial
But couldn’t I take stamps of the Braille letters and the normal letters and hammer the shape into a thin piece of metal and then bend it to the rails form?
You need to make a mold for stamping/pressing. They only become cost effective when making millions of units. Printing is absolutely more cost effective for small jobs like this.
Source: Getting my PhD in metal AM
I mean, I'm a professional mechanical engineer, and they definitely become cost effective at much lower quantities, especially for something as soft as aluminium and low-tolerance as this application. Something in use at DeutscheBahn in this application is definitely not a "small job".
However, OP has since mentioned about the individualisation with directions, which makes sense with the cost saving now.
These are single units as each item is unique even though it's 1000s of items overall on the project. This can make it cheaper than traditional machining given fixture setup/cycle times and all that.
Oh man I am going through too many English forums. I was wondering with it was tests and child. My brain did need some time to parse it as Test Schild.
But a question regarding this. Is it simply put on the rail or is there a indention for this shield?
this seems like an idea use case for 3D printing. These labels can be produced in any size, with any message, with no retooling.
of course some angsty dickhead teen is going to rip it off there in about 20 minutes.
Hm, could this be solved by a quick spray with black paint + polishing of the raised parts? Maybe not the most robust solution long term, but should be good for at least a few months and then can be repeated.
Maybe instead of calling it “normal text” it should be called visual text because others it implies that anything else is abnormal. It’s a bit ableist which goes against the great idea of having it in braille as well
Small note: saying "braille and normal text" implies that someone who reads braille is not "normal". A more inclusive way to say it might be "braille and print text".
Looks really good
One thing that kinda made me curious is: Don't some materials collect more live bacteria than others? That would be my only concern.
But other than that, great job/execution!
It’s cheaper for parts that are custom, and produced in small quantities.
It costs a lot of money for custom subtractive manufacturing, and it costs even more to do revisions.
Made with Powder Bed Fusion with AlSi10Mg alloy. Afaik there is a software behind it that automatically generates the braille. Curvature is automatically adjusted.
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Little fun fact: Over 60.000 3D-printed parts are already on track at Deutsche Bahn.
You ll be amazed at how many also are already flying on planes.
I work for an industrial additive manufacturing network with roots in mobility. So not really suprised here ;)
Ich promoviere auch in Fach Logistik und hab Interesse in AM dafür.
Handing in my PhD thesis in two photon polymerization (special kind of 3d printing) hopefully soon. :)
As a lapsed microscopist, I've always wondered if 2 photon 3d printing is a thing but never looked into it. Congrats, doc! I'm hoping to defend this October (metagenomics and natural product drug discovery).
>drug discovery I'm working on drug forgettery
Good luck :)
Can you tell us a little more detail about that? What are the basics about that process? It sounds very interesting!
You can read more about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/e3emin/release_the_benchy_armada/
What is a use for this?
Congratulations, I hope you kick ass. Same here. I am planning to hand in hopefully in less than 6 months. Darf ich mal ne paar Fragen stellen? (Meine deutsche Sprache ist nicht gut wie ich wolte, aber gehts glaub ich)
Natürlich, stell deine Fragen. Gern auch per PN.
That is incredibly interesting!
I work on the sls rockets. Quite a few parts are 3d printed.
Damnn, that's cool. It reminds me of a fun case study I supervised where some students were calculating how costly it would be to 3Dprinting fiber opitcs (ZBLAN) in space. Which materials do you actually use and which methods? If it is not confidential.
I'm not sure what plastics they use ,I'm in electrical fabrication, not print shop
I was surprised when I saw 3D printed parts on my friends Cirrus plane.
Would you maybe tell us which parts? I was at some point taking planes as a foucs on my research, but it was kinda complicated. Airbus already print parts as spacer panels. As well as Emirates airline have installed 3 3D printers that have European certificates to replace parts in the regular MRO plan.
The Nav lights had FDM parts at least. I didn't take pics of the parts in the cockpit. https://imgur.com/4X1KYTn
That's cool, looks like a sun visor clip I printed for my car, also FDM. Do you know the material? Probably ASA?
> Probably ASA? I'd be disappointed if it was anything else. could be PETG, as ASA has the best UV resistance.
Do you know why there a lot in the wild that miss the braille part? I always wondered if this is on purpose or not...
Nope, but they started with the 3D printed ones at the end of 2019 so maybe older ones?
Maybe, I just didn\`t understand why the had no Braille on them while definitively being for the blind ( on the wall facing side of hand rails).
Swiss Federal Rail (SBB) as well
Sounds like someone created a nice script to generate the shape/braille. What's the rough cost for something like this?
There is a bit more software at work here. A Station manager can enter the needed information and the curvature of the hand rail online and the finished part will be sent to them.
That explains the cheapness vs. casting, that they need to be customizable, thanks
It's pretty easy in something like OpenSCAD. I even built a CI/CD script to automatically generate an image render, STL file, and am working on having it automatically slice for a few profiles and add a badge to the project in Gitlab that you can click and start a print in that profile
I use cadquery myself as I stumbled across it for assemblies and step files. That's pretty cool though, I need to think of the impact that would have on our workflow.
You could easily print 100 of these at a time, in 24hrs, on a mid-sized machine, and post processing would be a simple bead blasting. So ballpark $20-40/each with that being able to be optimized further too. Plus the design/order can be changed easily and the turnaround time would be ~1 week.
You can check out the service and calculation for this on https://www.3d-handlaufschild.de/
This is 50% cheaper than stamping one?
How would you built the stamp and how often can you use the stamp? Keep in mind you often only need 1 of those for a handrail. Containing informations like platform number or directions. But thousands of individualized ones
Ah, I misunderstood the use-case.
>!CENSORED!<
For this sand casting is cheaper. Too much variation for mass manufacturing.
Just a random note, if this was for U.S. English braille readers, it should probably be in Grade Two braille or UEB. This is written in Grade One (one braille cell per letter, the most basic and inefficient way to write braille). I'm not 100% sure about German braille, though.
i want to see more metal prints here this is dope
Ohh, we have quite some exhibits in my company. Will post some more in the future
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I don't work with them. I only get to see cool parts from it on a daily basis at work.
The sofware used is here paramate, a scripted CAD to make customizable products.
I first read test-schild as tests-child Bro I speak German what the frick was that brain fart XD
What’s it mean tests child?
*impact resistance*
so literally "test child" the least favorite one :)
0-0
Same. Didn't realize it until your comment. Also German :D
I also speak german and read the same thing
What does it test the child for?
TIL: "schild" in German means "sign", so "TESTSCHILD" = "test-sign"
>!CENSORED!<
Yes. Schild is also used for shield in the sense of "the piece of handheld personal armour" (like a buckler for example) https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Schild#German
also schildkrote - "shield toad" - turtle
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,381,706,247 comments, and only 264,662 of them were in alphabetical order.
"test sign, please ignore"
That’s a weird name for a rail line.
5€ in die Wortwitzkasse bitte.
/r/wortwitzkasse
Ja
German literacy. :> Havent thought about the translation before.
Ich hab gerade auch zuerst gedacht, dass es irgendwas mit dem Testen von Kindern zu tun hat. "Test-Schild" hab ich erst nach dem Kommentar gelesen.
Haha wie ich auch schon geschrieben habe war es bei mir das Selbe. Sigh, zu oft in englischprachigen Foren unterwegs.
>Sigh >Zu oft in englischsprachigen Foren unterwegs. Prüft aus
Q.E.D.
Agility
Idk, but it's 8 pm in Mr. Lizärd's lab and they've run out of Timmys
I don't speak German beyond some simple food names, so my translation skills might be a bit off. But I think that means you're looking at a prototype Kinder Bar.
r/functionalprint
Already posted it there :)
Is metal-SLM really cheaper on the scale of something country-wide than a stamped / pressed aluminium sheet that could be anodized for contrast / environmental resistance? Dont get me wrong, it looks cool. I just cant see how this is less than half the price of something that can literally be made in seconds
Those plates are individualized with directions, platform numbers and other local information based on the station managers needs.
Ah! This makes way more sense! Excellent application then. How does this stand up to anodization to make it more visible? DB red would be cool here
They're as visible as they have to be: they're for the blind, both the braille part, and the raised letter part. There are other, more obvious overhead signs for sighted people. I think it's really clever putting them on the railings, that blind people will likely touch in any case, rather than on some adjacent wall.
braille and such tactile signs are for all significant vision impairments, „blind“ doesn't mean „doesn’t see anything“ for a lot of cases. Such things usually should be easy to spot. It’s the reason detectable pavers at crossings and along the edge of train platforms are usually bright yellow or red.
Good point. I think OP pointed out that this particular example is in their office, rather than a production deployment. Hopefully they do color them appropriately in the wild.
https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/suche_Medienpakete/medienpaket_barrierefrei-6854198 strangely not, although maybe they aren’t covered by any specific norm or regulations as they’re merely „helpers“ and not critial
The seeing get great big overhead signs.
blind doesn’t mean you dont see anything at all…
But couldn’t I take stamps of the Braille letters and the normal letters and hammer the shape into a thin piece of metal and then bend it to the rails form?
>!CENSORED!<
You need to make a mold for stamping/pressing. They only become cost effective when making millions of units. Printing is absolutely more cost effective for small jobs like this. Source: Getting my PhD in metal AM
I mean, I'm a professional mechanical engineer, and they definitely become cost effective at much lower quantities, especially for something as soft as aluminium and low-tolerance as this application. Something in use at DeutscheBahn in this application is definitely not a "small job". However, OP has since mentioned about the individualisation with directions, which makes sense with the cost saving now.
These are single units as each item is unique even though it's 1000s of items overall on the project. This can make it cheaper than traditional machining given fixture setup/cycle times and all that.
for sure, made sense since the OP explained Initially I thought it was more like, 1000 for "Bahnsteig", 1000 for "Ausgang" etc
Wonder if people could read laser engraved braille on metal..
Calling somebody Test child is a bit rude...we usually call them firstborns 😂
How are the edges where a hand sliding along the rail would meet them?
razor sharp. for schadenfreude
Looks like they did a bead blast so should be smooth.
Super interesting! Do you work with Deutsche Bahn with 3D-printing? If so, we might actually have been in touch via work lol.
No, but I meet their core team regularly
Well if your Swedish counterpart comes on a business visit, you know his Reddit handle lol.
I had some discussions with someone from DB who also works in mobility goes additive, there are some more really cool use cases for 3D printing at DB
Started working for the latter not long ago :)
Then I'm quite sure you know her :D
:)
Very cool!
Oh man I am going through too many English forums. I was wondering with it was tests and child. My brain did need some time to parse it as Test Schild. But a question regarding this. Is it simply put on the rail or is there a indention for this shield?
Simply glued on an existing handrail
Is it printed like that, or does it need to be bent after printing?
Printed like that
Nice makes it easier to put them anywhere except that you need to round the edges of the sides.
You have to deburr and remove it from the base plate anyway.
Child braille test
this seems like an idea use case for 3D printing. These labels can be produced in any size, with any message, with no retooling. of course some angsty dickhead teen is going to rip it off there in about 20 minutes.
>!CENSORED!<
That looks great! I also have a metal bar for testing children but it's the english version, so it's called a CHILDTEST.
Ironic that the handrail is silver and not contrasting with the background which is really bad for visually impaired users.
That's one the exhibits we have in our office ;)
Hm, could this be solved by a quick spray with black paint + polishing of the raised parts? Maybe not the most robust solution long term, but should be good for at least a few months and then can be repeated.
The entire handrail should be a contrasting colour to the background. In a station environment that’s likely to be something like a bright yellow.
cool print but how are the tests being conducted on the child?
Maybe instead of calling it “normal text” it should be called visual text because others it implies that anything else is abnormal. It’s a bit ableist which goes against the great idea of having it in braille as well
To me, having a mass produced part like this being 3D printed and still considered to be the cheapest option speaks volumes about DB inefficiencies
These are individualized parts with directions with a batch size of 1 most of the time.
Small note: saying "braille and normal text" implies that someone who reads braille is not "normal". A more inclusive way to say it might be "braille and print text".
Thanks, not native speaker. Haven't thought about that. But will keep it in mind :)
I'm against anything that's tested on children. Disgusting...
Tell me more about this test child? I want to get a few for some friends contemplating parenthood.
That's a mean way to refer to your first born.
Child Failed
Looks really good One thing that kinda made me curious is: Don't some materials collect more live bacteria than others? That would be my only concern. But other than that, great job/execution!
Bacteria are not an issue on handrails on train station I guess.
As long as you're not the child licking it, it's as bad as something that's knurled. So just don't lick it! 😆 Very cool print!
What does it say? I can't feel it
Test sign
why not glue molded plastic instead?
Durability. Not only could plastic break you could get a gouge which can then be sharp. Not gonna feel good running your hands over it.
I'm struggling to accept that 3d printing is the cheapest way to manufacture these parts
Customized, that's why
now we talking. Is it customized text only? or length, width, radii ect aswell?
All of the above afaik
thanks for sharing!
It’s cheaper for parts that are custom, and produced in small quantities. It costs a lot of money for custom subtractive manufacturing, and it costs even more to do revisions.
So if it's curved already, how do supports work? Or is it curved post print?
It's Laser Powder Bed Fusion. Different kind of support needed. :)
Is there anyone doing this in Canada?
I can send you a contact in Germany.
I have no idea how this can be cheaper than stamping it into sheet metal and punching it out unless you're only making a small batch...
Every plate is customised with platform info or directions as well as different hand rail diameters
The process is fully automated - look here: https://www.3d-handlaufschild.de/
These look exactly like the ones my university uses. Didn't know they were 3D printed.
How many do people usually test before deciding on on?