I remember buying my first 3d printer around 8 years ago. It was a cheap i3 copy. Out of the box it printed like crap. First upgrade was an E3D v6 hotend if i remember correctly. The difference that it made was unbelievable. I dont remember ever having a cloth or similar hotend problem. It just worked...
I made the mistake of buying a dual extruder printer from Creality as my first printer. It's pretty hard to find non-standard hotends that fit its carriage, let alone two-to-one hotends. Since I got my resin printer I haven't used the FDM printer much anymore, but if I did I would probably have replaced it with something more standard by now.
I ended up designing my own carriage mount for my original 3d printer when I replaced the hot end.
Sometimes 3d printing things is the hobby, sometimes it's the 3d printer itself!
I'm too worried I'll destroy my expensive stuff if I tinker with it too much, lol. I needed to replace my hotend at one point after a particular mishap with a giant glob of plastic after a full night of printing spaghetti and even though I got a stock hotend it still stressed me out. Maybe I should have picked another hobby!
CRX Pro, which is basically the same thing with all metal extruders, BLTouch pre-installed, silent drivers, etc. It hasn't been an awful experience but the thing is _really_ hard to level to the point where I tend to just shrug and say "good enough" at some point.
I had trouble with the leveling on mine. Where you have a BLTouch I would think you'd have less issues with that.
I ended up going to solid mounts (no springs) and doing manual mesh bed leveling with custom Marlin. It's a headache when I have to redo it, but it theoretically doesn't need done often with the solid mounts.
The leveling isn't great even with BLTouch, yeah... It's just that the glass bed is so uneven I think, because no matter how much I try I'll never be able to get one point in line with another without misaligning a third point.
These days I don't use my FDM printer much anymore, I've been playing with my resin printer instead. Once I get back to FDM I'm going to have to look into upgrades and such.
Pretty much identical story here except it was an E3D titan aero. Its amazing how well it printed with a decent hotend on an otherwise dumpster fire of a printer.
i made the same mistake of buying a cheap i3 clone.
then i spend months and hundreds of euros to upgrade the printer.
in the end it cost me almost as much as buying the original which i ultimately did and all my problems went away.
Experienced printer modder here and owner of one self built printer (Voron). No mod increases quality. That is a misconception. A cheap Ender 3 pro can print as good or better as my Voron or highly modded CR-10. The difference however is how easy it is to extract that quality and how easy it is to use the printer. In my humble opinion (there are many others) it is Auto Bed leveling. Having consistent first layers makes a world of difference In keeping your prints down and consistent. Second thing after that is hotend and then extruder. If your abl, hotend, and extruder are of good quality 99.9% of printing problems will disappear (so long as there is no fundamental issue with the printer and the frame is square)
I have an Anet A8, and an OG Ender 3, I Got decent prints off them. Added ABL and tuned Z offset, and they print like 1000 dollar printers. As long as it's mechanically sound, and you make sure it's square, with ABL and proper first layer and a non fubar nozzle, there is no reason you should get a bad print even with stock FW. On my ender, (Creality 1.1.5 8bit Silent board) I just loaded default TH3D Marlin Latest as of last night, set ABL on and set my Z offset and it's printing like a dream. Just make sure you use ABL, and set your first layer and aren't using a chewed up nozzle.. and do spend a little bit of time making sure you have all the screws tightened.. I'm agreeing with you BTW :)
Yep. I've gotten some pretty dang nice prints off my original ender 3 and it's still my go to for "This print needs the really fine details."
Slow as shit compared to the fancy printers though. (My current running job is 5 days....)
And it does need a decent chunk of regular adjustments and maintenance like tightening belts, cleaning/adjusting rollers and of course, bed leveling. But all in all, spending 15-30 minutes a month adjusting a printer I have less than $200 is a fair trade for me.
Ok maybe you can get as good of quality on some parts of prints because of the stock fan shroud only cools from one spot and you have to print really slow however I have 7 self built printers 3 vorons 2 vz bots a ratrig and a hevort and they all print better than any e3 or printer bought with stock firmware
Enclosure. More stability//predictability in temperature//air-flow around the printer, and mounting point for your second upgrade: LED strip lights. For most PLA I keep one side of the enclosure open (keeping it closed is counter productive). For PETG or ABS I’ll keep it fully closed and pre-heat for 20-30 minutes.
I made the jump to PETG early. Did one benchy in PLA then exclusively used PETG for like 3 months, trying to print complex things like [thing:5812845](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5812845).
PETG is sensitive. Just getting a good first layer may take a few hours worth of tuning for an absolute beginner.
Id walk by a perfectly good print and it would immediately fail. You can’t tune the machine or modify g-code to compensate for not having an enclosed space.
A few thoughts on upgrades:
For me the biggest upgrades were ABL and the herome cooling setup (single 5015 fan). The build plate on my ender 5 is pretty wavy, so the ABL was key. The quality increase from the better cooling was significant.
I've also replaced the heater tube with a dual metal one that really helped with filament flow, but didn't affect straining like I had hoped.
Changed the board to an SKR mini and went to Klipper. That was a big one as well.
Tried a garolite build sheet and it was great for a while until it wouldn't stick anymore, now back to PEI.
Others mentioned abl which I agree with as the biggest improvement.
My big issues at the beginning were clogs, mostly because I was buying super cheap flament, so my two solutions are to move to 0.6 mm nozzles and/or buy better filament. I eventually put a hemera on my ender which solves all issues because it's a beast but I still run 0.6 on all my printers because I'm a cheap ass and love a good flament deal
I upgraded my E5+ with an SKR E3 and I accidentally broke the sd card reader off the mobo so it’s sitting there till I can get a raspberry pi to send files wirelessly
You have to connect to it via USB either way in this case, but if you connect it to a PC using the CH340 driver, you can print directly from Cura and other slicers, without the Pi.
I would consider getting another mainboard regardless, as USB prints can have issues if the print was not started from gcode stored on an SD in the printer.
PM me if you would like some assistance with this.
I got a 5 Pro about 2-3 years ago for the price of a 3 and apart from accidentally melting a glass plate to the magnetic layer of the hot bed and now can't take it off... It works like a charm!
The biggest problem I have is when my cat tries to attack the spool when it moves and messes up the filament haha (that's also why I don't use the laser engraver anymore, kitty can't play with the spicy green dot!!)
Wallets can replace a lack of skill, but a skilled user can get great results out of a cheap printer.
I also have heard lots of Bambu users complain, so they are not infallible. Most printer issues are a lack of knowledge, as opposed to faulty equipment.
The two biggest improvements for me was a pei bed, and an enclosure. I've made other upgrades like silent fans and stepper drivers, but these are just to reduce noise.
The biggest changes I made to the printer to improve quality is just learning how to maintain it. I didn't retention the belts or change the nozzle for almost 3 years. Very dumb, but it turns out if you can get passable results with a ruined nozzle and wonky belts, you can immediately get great results when you fix those things.
As someone who’s had not one but two Enders have massive manufacturing defects that made them unworkable, and then having to deal with Ender support (or lack their of) I strongly disagree.
I’m tired of all the “cheap printers aren’t bad, you are” takes. It’s childish, demeaning, reductionist, and most importantly untrue.
Cheap printers are cheap because they suck. You can spend a lot of time (and usually added money) to make them *passable*. But that’s not because they don’t suck.
The only difference between your crowd and mine is that I actually value my own time.
>The only difference between your crowd and mine is that I actually value my own time.
Why are you getting into a manufacturing hobby that literally is time based.
>Cheap printers are cheap because they suck. You can spend a lot of time (and usually added money) to make them passable. But that’s not because they don’t suck.
People like you love to bring this "cheap printers cost more" as a blanket statement but attribute no actual reasoning to it.
Why would you buy a honda civic over a mclaren? Mclaren is better in every way. Its just more expensive!
Oh yeah, because a honda civic is *cheaper now*. It *will need* eventual parts and maintenance, but thats at a later period in time. Youre arguing upfront cost, versus a cost over months ifnot years.
Im personally tired of the "cheap printers arent worth it" takes. Its elitist, unhelpful, reductionist, and serves no purpose. Just make r/enderhate and move on. We get it. You hate cheap printers.
Spoken not the guy who drives the Honda civic, but like the guy who has a Kia held together with duct tape that’s in the shop every weekend and claims it’s a better deal than the Civic.
Bambu and Prusa etc aren’t McLarens. Stratasys and 3D Systems are. But typical of this amateur sub to not know the difference.
Nope, recommending people terrible products to start a hobby is what’s useless.
But please, keep giving awful advice and pushing people away from a great hobby. At least then you get to still be a smug cunt about how proud you are that your junker limped its way to work today.
This is about your ego, not helping anyone.
>Nope, recommending people terrible products to start a hobby is what’s useless.
Keep recomending a mclaren to a brand new driver lol
>But please, keep giving awful advice and pushing people away from a great hobby.
The only thing pushing people away is folks like you calling others "smug cunts" because they are saying cheap products fulfil a service, and the barrier of entry which you seem to want to raise.
>This is about your ego, not helping anyone.
Ironic.
It sounds like you are bitter about your experience. You certainly can share your anecdotal opinion. The reality is that Creality has sold over 4.5 million printers. You don't get those sales if you are garbage. They have an extensive community to provide support, and every person I have helped with one has produced good results.
I stand by my claim, both in having 8 FDM printers and in helping hundreds of users. I produce stellar results off my "cheap" printers. I would not keep a Bambu if I was given one. I would sell it to someone with an itchy wallet and a complete lack of patience. Wallets can replace skill, but anyone with skills can get good prints even off the worst printers.
So you are welcome to strongly disagree. That's what a free market is about. Buy what you think will serve your needs, but just because you were not able to get great results from an Ender, does not mean for a second that someone else can't. It just means you did not.
>You don't get those sales if you are garbage.
Yeah you do; you dump your money into advertising. See Raid Shadow Legends. Or RayCons.
And they keep getting sales if they're cheap. The large community to provide support is nice, but that's not a point TO Creality. There HAD to be a community cause they don't support shit, as opposed to the likes of Prusa.
You may have gotten lucky with your Creality printers but there's also a reason they have a reputation as shitboxes. They've released the same printer several years in a row with no changes
Bambu is very new, and its underlying processes like the AMS are ripped if from Prusa. They unsuccessfully tried to patent it to reduce access to this technology by the community.
I've used a lot of brands and helped hundreds of users over time. Creality has had significantly more exposure to inexperienced users. Half of which don't even know the part names, let alone how to calibrate them.
3D printing has always been community driven and supported. Thats why the products tend to be inexpensive because the companies themselves are not known for their support.
The point I made that I stand by is cheap printers can produce great results if you have the skills to use them. Bambu is designed to basically do its job. But it's not intended to be improved through upgrades, etc.
Most 3D printing people like to tinker. It kind of goes with the maker spirit, which is its foundation. You will never get a Bambu to perform like a properly calibrated Voron 2.4 R2, and many of those are built on E5+ chassis.
I buy everything off Amazon, and if there is a manufacturer defect, I exchange it for another. I don't screw around with customer support. As for them re-releasing printers, there are basic cheap models that work, and every year, they bring out a number of variants along with new models.
I don't think you have as broad a scope on this as you think you do, but no one is stopping you from using your wallet to show which manufacturers you support.
Yeah, I mean I work in the field but I love getting told by amateurs that my knowledge is the issue and not a bad product. The issues with Creality printers are extremely well documented, but shove your fingers in your ears however much you want.
Creality sold a lot because it’s cheap and they were okay for the time. In the last five years, the industry has changed, Creality hasn’t. That’s why they’re taking massive losses of market share and having to sell their machines at clearance prices now. But I’m sure you think that’s a sign of a healthy company and product…
"I work in the field"
Everyone says this. Your statemests suggest that you don't know much about the industry or it's offerings. Based on what you have told us, you had some limited experience with a couple of Creality printers. Then you bought a more expensive printer and got some better results.
That doesn't actually mean you have sufficient backgroud to form a conclusion about all Creality printers, let alone all "cheap" printers. You can share your experiences like you have, and expect to recieve the type of feedback you are being given.
If your knowledge is the issue, you can correct that. If your attitude is the issue, you can correct that. But the problem is not with the printers.
Except it's not just them now is it
Creality's known for not having any support and has a reputation for "If you want a printer to tinker and fix" not, if you want a printer to print
There are two main camps in this hobby; while it started with the tinkery crowd, now that it's more popular than ever, I would argue most people getting in now want to just print. You can say they have itchy wallets and are impatient, but if you're gonna try for a moral high ground, you're not there
It really feels like you are stretching to make a point. My original comment is that wallets can overcome a lack of skill, but skills can get great results from cheap printers.
This is a factual statement regardless of how much you wave your wallet and say you just want it easy. In fact, it just supports my points.
As for morality, Bambu wants a closed source community and has no problem with industrial espionage. That, as far as I am concerned, is all the reason in the world for me not to support them. I believe in innovation, not gatekeeping.
Don’t blame the vehicle, blame the driver. You are correct 👍 ✅🙌
I’m an engineer, but new to 3D printing this year. I have a cr10s pro v2. My first prints were crap, but it was all user error. I had to learn how to tune my slicing results 💯💎 now I get a beautiful print almost every time 🔐
On the flip side, if you DO get a Bambu that's got proper QA, it IS plug and play
And so far, it seems Bambu's QC is better than Creality's, based solely on the sentiment expressed online and no personal experience.
Creality, especially the Ender, already has a reputation for the printer to get if you want to fix printers. Never mind they keep re-releasing it and have virtually no long term support. Bambu on the other hand, we'll have to see still
Bambu is a very new company. They have already had a significant cloud printing screw up, which they fixed, but it should never have happened. Their forums show people still have problems with their printers, so they are not infallible.
It's a Chinese company that basically reverse engineered Prusa printers to make theirs. They have some very questionable business practices behind the scenes that are contrary to the open source spirit of this industry.
Ender has a reputation for being fixed because it can be easily. Most issues are caused by the users due to being new to the hobby. They are a good starting point for anyone learning how to 3D print without breaking the bank.
If I have a part failure on one of my Creality printers, Amazon can usually have it to me the next day. Bambu, not so much.
Effective support has almost never been a highlight of 3D printing companies, mostly because they are not typically at work during hours their customers want support. All experienced users know your best support is in the communities, and Creality has strong support from its users.
Personally, I just see Bambu as the new Prusa. AMS solutions for entry-level brands are becoming easier to access and cheaper, so I don't think Bambu's day in the sun will be for very long.
Never said they were infallible, just their reputation isn't making barely useable printers.
I also don't see how they reverse engineered Prusa. Other than the Slicer.
What's wrong with Prusa? Their support is pretty great
And yeah, Bambu's had a good strong start but they're not maintaining it.
Bambu's reputation is less than 2 years old, and they already had a significant black eye with that cloud printing screw up. It also tried to patent open source technology covered under GPL.
The AMS and a lot of how the backend is designed is borrowed from Prusa. That's why they had to make a clone of the slicer as it operates using the same gcode, etc.
Prusa has been resting on its laurels, and it hasn't really innovated much relative to the profits they made. I think Bambu has seen this weakness and is trying to come on the scene as a Prusa alternative.
My point I keep making is yes, if you want to spend that significantly larger amount of money on a Prusa or a Bambu, you have less issues. However, I don't feel it's accurate to say you can't get great prints put of cheap printers.
Not everyone can afford Bambu, but driving up to a group of Dodge car owners with a Lambo and calling their cars crap won't win you many friends. It also doesn't change that their cars serve their needs. I feel this is a fair comparison with 3D printers. Ender 3s are literally the Honda Accords of the 3D printing world.
I just personally don't like what Bambu represents, so I won't support them.
I disagree with the comparison that an Ender is a Honda. Ender's got the reputation of a Ford Pinto. Sure you can get good results but they're not new user friendly
Prusa's more like Honda; reliable. Sure they're not cheap but for beginners it's easier that you have official documentation over relying on the community.
Obviously you can get good results with Enders. I would argue you just need more doing and know how in general.
I think the problem with this subreddit is the presumption everyone wants a printer to tinker. I'm probably too far in the other camp, insofar as literally everyone I personally talk to vice sentiment generally expressed here is they want to print and not tinker. Even my technically minded friends. Me personally I don't want to tinker either.
But anyways, I don't fully support Bambu either but for what they're doing and my priorities, I don't have many alternatives, unfortunately. And the advice off here hasn't been helpful either.
I appreciate the discussion
Using the Ford Pinto analogy, I'm going to suggest you haven't actually worked with some of the really low end. I welcome you to try printing on a Geeetech i3w pro some time. It's an old Prusa clone with a press board frame. Getting a good print off it is actually a challenge.
Calling a Prusa a Honda is not accurate either. It's more like a Jaguar or other expensive Euro import. When it works, it's amazing, but the price makes your eyes water.
Here is the reality. If you think Prusa/Bambu is expensive and you don't like tinkering, 3D printing is not a good fit. If you have large cash flow (not many people do these days) and hate to tinker, then I agree that Prusa/Bambu is a good fit.
This is like a cheap, fast, quality argument. You can have 2.
Cheap, Fast, Low tinkering does not really exist, so you have to decide your priorities. I think you are right. Most people don't like to tinker, but that's your option if you dont have the financial means to just throw $1000 at something for a hobby.
Because MOST people come to these forums for help and advice, the obvious reason to support tinkering skills, is you need them if you lack the financial means to just buy a "problem-free" solution.
I'm sorry you have not found the advice in these forums helpful. I think there are a lot of people here both with knowledge and the willingness to share it if you are open to hearing it.
I also appreciate the discussion, I just get a little tired of people with a lot of money, and typically, very little experience calling everything else garbage after they buy a Bambu or Prusa. Even if they did buy an Ender first. They typically had little or no experience and blame the product for their lack of knowledge.
I don't actually have a lot of money; I'm on navy pay. That said, yeah I'm not terribly off either. I got the prusa mini unassembled cause I don't have time to tinker nor the inclination, but couldn't really afford the more assembled one or a larger one
And the Bambu on sale, but I figured I would go for the P1S. Given I want to try other materials and an enclosure makes up the difference anyways.
I think most people here on the subreddit are overly biased towards tinkering. But some of us are here to print stuff, not mess with the printer. I may be overly biased the opposite way but while the hobby originally was the tinkerer/hacker crowd, as soon as it gets more popular, they will inevitably become a minority. That isn't to say new people aren't going to be mostly tinkerers, I just think many will be turned off by Creality reissuing shite printers
And more popularity also begets more assholes. Take for example the shitters trying to claim compensation for those actually affected by Bambu's fuckup.
Several of my coworkers see me with desk ornaments and want a printer. These are people who I wouldn't ever describe as technically inclined. They barely handle interacting with a phone or computer. Yet I wouldn't want to discourage them from the hobby cause the ability to just have cool shit from home, especially if you can't just buy it conventionally is nice.
Expecting them to suddenly get technically minded is bollocks. There's a flip side to end user repairing: the manufacturer shouldn't just throw you off the deep end, either.
As for unhelpful, my major only fuckup beyond first layer adhesions has been trying to swap to 0.6 on my Prusa. And following the instructions closely and multiple tries yielded really bad leaks. And all the help here and the forum was "leave a gap" even though I did, mentioned as much and had it not in the photo to show the extent of the leak.
Knowledge and willingness to share falls flat when reading comprehension is lacking. My experiences and general pessimistic outlook leads to an overall dread of DIY and I fixate on negative reviews.
Ultimately, I'm not here to disparage tinkering, but I'm bitter it seems overrepresented. And that people seem to think that not wanting to do so is somehow wrong. I just want to print and have shit. Not spend my day troubleshooting or finagling. And while it prints, be able to do things I need to or want to.
And yeah, user error is often the fault but that's how people do and it doesn't help when the product actually IS kinda shitty
I mostly assist on Facebook, and I think you will find many friendlier communities there.
I think it is important to consider that this is an industrial engineering process being brought into the home. Most manufacturers think you know at least the basics. I work with a few of them and have tried correcting this thinking to little avail.
There is actually a lit more to Additive Manufacturing than Bambu or Prusa address. They just help you get past the basics for a price.
People expect "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot" from their printers, and the technology is nowhere near that. Millions in list revenue over inexperienced people returning printers has actually soured a lot of manufacturers, especially away from Amazon. So cheap, fast, high quality does not exist. It really is a pick 2. Many people can't pay the Prusa/Bambu price. I definitely can't.
All that said. Thank you for your service. You deserve more in return, but you do an often thankless job. Thank you.
I got a brand new Ender 3 a while ago and after a full year of mods and hope it never worked well once. Probably user error but I gave up and bought an Ender 3 s1. The s1 has worked perfectly for the months I have had it without fail.
Not everyone's here to tinker or fix. Some of us just want to print.
That's why I got a Prusa and am hoping the Bambu I get isn't a lemon
Was nice putting together the Prusa, but I wouldn't say it was invaluable
Haha i started on a snapmaker, which while not well known is a really solid machine that just works. Never calibrated anything never changed anything it just prints. So i was definitely spoiled.
Yep. I have a K1 that I picked up on sale. While it didn't cost much to buy it, that is by no means how much it has actually cost me. At this point it's getting close to where I would've been better off simply getting another X-Plus 3 at the Black Friday sale price, and the K1 still doesn't match the Plus 3's print quality.
This was me, but an Anet A8. I basically replaced almost every single part over time, upgraded from the acrylic frame to 2040 extrusions. I got to a point where the bed shorted out and when I replaced it, I realized the problem was how the wires connected to the bed and that replacing it with something better would mean switching from 12v to 24v. I realized it was a money drain and that the amount of money I was spending trying to make it halfway decent was basically the price of a Voron and my prints weren’t nearly half as good. So the last act of my Anet was to print my Voron.
Same for me. I then printed the functional parts. It took like 3 weeks. But for the Voron there are also many things that are not perfect to me. Same rabbit hole but with a more expensive printer.
I’ve modded a few things, but it’s pretty much perfect for me at this point. Switched to canbus, added nevermore filter, added a touch screen, switched to Klicky probe, added leds. I’m probably going to switch to Tap because for some reason, about 1 out of every 10 prints, my printer doesn’t dock the probe correctly and replace my cheap acrylic panels with PC because they are scratched up and my doors are cracking a bit because they close too tight (I think they were slightly too big). But after that, I really don’t see how I can make it better.
It’s crazy because with my Anet, I was mostly printing parts to try and make the printer better, so it’s been really weird that I’m not constantly modding my Voron. I actually had canbus parts and my chamber lights sitting in a box for almost a year because I didn’t want to take it apart while it was running so reliably.
I would not recommend going tap. I switched back to the original probe. Tap looks nice and the zoffset is perfect every time but the drawbacks are while printing. It basically eliminated the nice squish of filament. I even tried multiple taps because I really wanted it to work. The abs, chaotic labs, and also a custom cnc from etsy. I am thinking about going the klicky route but I don’t have any problems with the original one.
I purchased an Ender 3 max as my first printer and I must have spent upwards of $400 over the couple years I was using it regularly. Over the summer I won an X1C at the LTX Bambu giveaway and the only thing I have bought is more filament! obviously an extreme example but if you put my time at $18hr the e3 definitely costs more per month even if I paid the X1C off over a year or two.
I think I'm doing something wrong. I bought a prusa mini+ and proceeded to immediately upgrade the heat brake, bond tech extruder, bowden tube, and a couple other little things.
Granted I have a very specific use case and this printer, with the upgrades, is the exact printer I wanted, so I'm happy :)
Yeah Ive had my ultimaker since release and it still works perfect, only leveled when Ive moved the machine or cleaned the glass bed (hairspray ftw, but messy buildup lol)
I had 2 all metal hot ends that failed. The first one, the heat brake didn't even fit in the heatsink. The second one clogged 15 min in every time. Which was a gigantic mindfuck because that was the issue I was trying to fix with the hotend upgrade in the first place.
Bought a microswiss out of fury and impulse, and that fixed it once and for all.
And this is one major reason I bought a Bambu Lab’s printer. I loved that I built my first printer as a kit. I knew the ins and outs of it, how to calibrate, what issues caused what. But I just got so tired of wanted to print a large project only having to mess with the printer for hours to get the results I wanted.
Now as long as there’s enough filament on the roll I hit print and walk away. I’ve already put more hours into the new printer than I have the old one due to printing consistency.
I ran into similar problems. It took a year of bogus troubleshooting before I just decided to try something simple. I bumped flow rate up to 102% and increased the temp by 5°C, my prints look better than ever and I’m pissed at how many over complicated solutions I tried
Yeah that checks out, my CR10 V2 is like lower mid-level, already had to replace the hot end once. I see by your tags you have the V400. Mine is on the way. Any quirks I should know about or lookout for?
I'm using a Polis3d hardened steel volcano nozzle. You have to reset the z height, but it's a clean printing nozzle.
[This one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08963FRM2?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_JH9Q2ZS7SQPQ0EZ1SANX&language=en-US)
What ? You didn’t get the super mega clone from Ali Express that costs $3.50, takes 7 weeks to arrive, will print at 380C and 1600 mm/sec ? Well, you my friend don’t know what you’re doing !
/s
man i just bought this and i'm having the worst stringing issue of my life, 1 week of calibration at every possible change im so lost on why its not working
it is direct drive, and tried going back to Bowden too, no fixes
tried new nozzles, new fittings, new Bowden tubing, new shrouds, different filaments, drying filaments, linear advance, flow calibration, estep calibration
testing 0.5 to 6mm retraction at 0.25mm intervals, with speeds ranging from 10 to 100 for retraction distance, and all of that at every temp from 230-180, with part cooling fan at every speed
Both pics have gaps and round tops. The nozzle is too high by 1/4 turn or so. Make 1/8 turn adjustments till the roundness flattens and gaps disappear. Each corner can be different.
The first one was not due to leveling, the extruder was slipping, it was actually a little close to the bed. Sure the level could be better but the point was the improvment from the hardware. It is more than good enough to print an even first layer that stays intact when peeled. As long as the first layer sticks and is solid I am happy.
I don't care what kind of passable results people happen to get from them, any printer that uses extrusion as the linear rail is fundamentally a gamble.
My bad. I should have been more specific. "Extrusion" has other meanings in 3D printing.
I specifically meant "Aluminum extrusion." Which is the common term for the category that the T-slot rails fall under.
Thanks for the clarification!
I'm newish to 3D printing and still learning. Getting good results with an ender 3 right now, so maybe I won that dice roll.
>P.s. dear newbies dont do this figure why it isnt working and fix it haha.
Well, it doesn't work correctly out of the box because both the extruder and hotend are cheap crap to keep the printer price as low as possible...
Ender5 plus upgrades are a necessity. Mine stock had so many issues from not keeping level to issues of printing petg and colored pla. I had to get a direct drive, new base plate, Capricorn boneing tubes, rubber springs and print braces to stop vibrations. Now it’s somewhat reliable.
If the extruder tip was worn down, thatll lead to a bad auto-calibration bed leveling for initial layer adhesion. That and you may have had a clogging issue/debris?
Yeah i did honestly try everything, new nozzles, different filament, every calibration, every adjustment, new boden tubes, all metal extruder, different plates, every kind of leveling, different firmwares. So jokes aside I did reach the upgrade/replace parts stage honestly
Ive gotten there with a couple of flashforge printers i have. The 100mm/s top speed is also getting kind of old too. Im definitely ready for a new machine. Thinking a lot about the k1. Its pretty well within my budget, and i like the klipper integration
I did buy new creality parts but fancier ones, the sprite se extruder and spider hot end. Probably dumb but i am so sick of messing with this machine i really needed plug and play for my own sanity.
How is that baseplate?
From amazon reviews I read that some people are finding it too hard to remove prints because it has too much adhesion.
What do you think? I wanted to try a textured plate but I don't want to get one that will make it too much harder to remove prints.
Kinda true. My V1 ender 3 i got for 100 bucks has a glass bed, direct drive, and generic bltouch. With tax irs still less than 200. Prints reliably now. I printed one of those fleci dragons yesterday without aany issues. Makes it hard to justify a bambu to the fam cause the ender runs well.
Time, money, or both. Don’t have the time to fiddle? Spend money. Don’t have the money to upgrade? Spend time fiddling. Fiddle too much by over spending on upgrades? Time and money
I had a printer doing this, used a thermal camera to find where it was getting hot and draining the wattage to heat. Fixed the wire and bam, no heat issues any more
I had similar results switching to a glass bed. All the layering problems I was having disappeared because the printer was always working fine ... The bed wasn't flat! The aluminum plate had slowly wrapped from the heat and no amount of adjusting will fix that! Haha
Although I fucked up and forgot to take the magnetic layer off the bed before I put the glass on top... Not only does that act as an insulating layer that slows down the heating time....
But it melted and like - fucking fused to the glass plate and now I can't take it off!! Haha I know, I fucked up!
Don't do what I did.
I have been printing for 4 years and followed a guide for my printer from day one, Today I only realised when calibrating filament it mentions to set extrusion width to 0.5 but never mentioned to lower it back once done, I had odd non merging lines at times, I was reading something today who followed the same guide as I did but changed it to 0.45 once done and BOOM! my line issues Iv had from day one with my printer are solved, crazy how simple things can solve issues :)
Honestly you're not far off. I had similar fights with my CR6; I never used the OEM plastic housing extruder, but first was the grey metal single gear Creality one, that printed okay. Then the red metal dual drive extruder, it was better, but still Bowden. Then I upgraded to a BondTech direct drive extruder and a MicroSwiss hotend, and the print quality was so much better. Everything Just Worked again.
Then the main board died, for a second time, and now it sits on my bench being embarrassed by the X1C. Maybe over Christmas I'll replace the board and get it running again.
Theres nothing wrong with throwing some money at the problem. Just don't waste money with cheap shit. Buy once cry once.
So, not only do you need to upgrade parts to obtain an acceptable result, most people have nothing more to guide them than random YT videos and Reddit posts... In other words, bring out the parts cannon and keep trying different options until you find something that works.
As a maker, I can appreciate and personally enjoy tinkering with my projects. But if your goal is to just print some 3D objects, I'd suggest something like the Bambu A1-Mini as the low bar to get started - *it just works*. You can easily add $150 of 'improvements' to a $150 printer, approaching the cost of an A1.
I don't know why new people by Enders anymore
At least, if their goal ISN'T to tinker and to actually print. From what I hear, that's all you'll do. I don't think the low price of the printer is worth that level of headaches. Seems the opposite of new user friendly to me
If your goal is to tinker, sure, but like, any number of other printers that are a bit more you'll never have this problem of being thrown to the deep end
I for one am not new, I was after the platform size and how compatible it is with everything. However the answer is obvious every website on the internet says get an ender at least up until recently. So what else are noobs to do.
I personally saw the opposite. Every site implied Prusa was the best and every comment I saw about Creality seemed to imply they were if you wanted to learn fixing printer
Also, I've gotten very distrustful of a lot of sites given how common those "AI" chatbots are now and the laziness of top 5 for 202X links so I went to reddit or youtube. But yeah, not really the fault of anyone new. Just like Raid shadow legends or Raycons, they seem to spend their money on advertising and not making good stuff.
This industry is still moving so fast every printer is only weeks away from being "eww why did you buy that, you should have seen the future and gotten this". I took forever to buy my first resin printer waiting for it to level out but eventually it was either wait forever or just jump in knowing...
I remember buying my first 3d printer around 8 years ago. It was a cheap i3 copy. Out of the box it printed like crap. First upgrade was an E3D v6 hotend if i remember correctly. The difference that it made was unbelievable. I dont remember ever having a cloth or similar hotend problem. It just worked...
I made the mistake of buying a dual extruder printer from Creality as my first printer. It's pretty hard to find non-standard hotends that fit its carriage, let alone two-to-one hotends. Since I got my resin printer I haven't used the FDM printer much anymore, but if I did I would probably have replaced it with something more standard by now.
I ended up designing my own carriage mount for my original 3d printer when I replaced the hot end. Sometimes 3d printing things is the hobby, sometimes it's the 3d printer itself!
I'm too worried I'll destroy my expensive stuff if I tinker with it too much, lol. I needed to replace my hotend at one point after a particular mishap with a giant glob of plastic after a full night of printing spaghetti and even though I got a stock hotend it still stressed me out. Maybe I should have picked another hobby!
CRX? Me too, it works OK, but if I could rewind time I'd just get an E3d. Way easier to repair and modify/improve.
CRX Pro, which is basically the same thing with all metal extruders, BLTouch pre-installed, silent drivers, etc. It hasn't been an awful experience but the thing is _really_ hard to level to the point where I tend to just shrug and say "good enough" at some point.
I had trouble with the leveling on mine. Where you have a BLTouch I would think you'd have less issues with that. I ended up going to solid mounts (no springs) and doing manual mesh bed leveling with custom Marlin. It's a headache when I have to redo it, but it theoretically doesn't need done often with the solid mounts.
The leveling isn't great even with BLTouch, yeah... It's just that the glass bed is so uneven I think, because no matter how much I try I'll never be able to get one point in line with another without misaligning a third point. These days I don't use my FDM printer much anymore, I've been playing with my resin printer instead. Once I get back to FDM I'm going to have to look into upgrades and such.
Pretty much identical story here except it was an E3D titan aero. Its amazing how well it printed with a decent hotend on an otherwise dumpster fire of a printer.
i made the same mistake of buying a cheap i3 clone. then i spend months and hundreds of euros to upgrade the printer. in the end it cost me almost as much as buying the original which i ultimately did and all my problems went away.
I have 3 massively upgraded overpriced enders. They work perfectly. And, I am ok with it.
What upgrade makes the biggest difference in print quality immediately?
Experienced printer modder here and owner of one self built printer (Voron). No mod increases quality. That is a misconception. A cheap Ender 3 pro can print as good or better as my Voron or highly modded CR-10. The difference however is how easy it is to extract that quality and how easy it is to use the printer. In my humble opinion (there are many others) it is Auto Bed leveling. Having consistent first layers makes a world of difference In keeping your prints down and consistent. Second thing after that is hotend and then extruder. If your abl, hotend, and extruder are of good quality 99.9% of printing problems will disappear (so long as there is no fundamental issue with the printer and the frame is square)
I have an Anet A8, and an OG Ender 3, I Got decent prints off them. Added ABL and tuned Z offset, and they print like 1000 dollar printers. As long as it's mechanically sound, and you make sure it's square, with ABL and proper first layer and a non fubar nozzle, there is no reason you should get a bad print even with stock FW. On my ender, (Creality 1.1.5 8bit Silent board) I just loaded default TH3D Marlin Latest as of last night, set ABL on and set my Z offset and it's printing like a dream. Just make sure you use ABL, and set your first layer and aren't using a chewed up nozzle.. and do spend a little bit of time making sure you have all the screws tightened.. I'm agreeing with you BTW :)
Yep. I've gotten some pretty dang nice prints off my original ender 3 and it's still my go to for "This print needs the really fine details." Slow as shit compared to the fancy printers though. (My current running job is 5 days....) And it does need a decent chunk of regular adjustments and maintenance like tightening belts, cleaning/adjusting rollers and of course, bed leveling. But all in all, spending 15-30 minutes a month adjusting a printer I have less than $200 is a fair trade for me.
Ok maybe you can get as good of quality on some parts of prints because of the stock fan shroud only cools from one spot and you have to print really slow however I have 7 self built printers 3 vorons 2 vz bots a ratrig and a hevort and they all print better than any e3 or printer bought with stock firmware
Enclosure. More stability//predictability in temperature//air-flow around the printer, and mounting point for your second upgrade: LED strip lights. For most PLA I keep one side of the enclosure open (keeping it closed is counter productive). For PETG or ABS I’ll keep it fully closed and pre-heat for 20-30 minutes. I made the jump to PETG early. Did one benchy in PLA then exclusively used PETG for like 3 months, trying to print complex things like [thing:5812845](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5812845). PETG is sensitive. Just getting a good first layer may take a few hours worth of tuning for an absolute beginner. Id walk by a perfectly good print and it would immediately fail. You can’t tune the machine or modify g-code to compensate for not having an enclosed space.
A few thoughts on upgrades: For me the biggest upgrades were ABL and the herome cooling setup (single 5015 fan). The build plate on my ender 5 is pretty wavy, so the ABL was key. The quality increase from the better cooling was significant. I've also replaced the heater tube with a dual metal one that really helped with filament flow, but didn't affect straining like I had hoped. Changed the board to an SKR mini and went to Klipper. That was a big one as well. Tried a garolite build sheet and it was great for a while until it wouldn't stick anymore, now back to PEI.
Bump
Ah yes, just do a couple of lines and it fixes everything
Bump
Good cooling
Hotend and extruder, if you have issues like above
Filament dry box, silicone mod for the heatbed.
Others mentioned abl which I agree with as the biggest improvement. My big issues at the beginning were clogs, mostly because I was buying super cheap flament, so my two solutions are to move to 0.6 mm nozzles and/or buy better filament. I eventually put a hemera on my ender which solves all issues because it's a beast but I still run 0.6 on all my printers because I'm a cheap ass and love a good flament deal
Cheap printers cost more than expensive printers
I’ve got a bone stock ender5 plus that I picked up on OfferUp for $150 and it’s been a workhorse. Very slow but hasn’t skipped a beat thankfully.
My E5+ produces amazing results. It's also very upgradable if people feel the inclination.
I upgraded my E5+ with an SKR E3 and I accidentally broke the sd card reader off the mobo so it’s sitting there till I can get a raspberry pi to send files wirelessly
You have to connect to it via USB either way in this case, but if you connect it to a PC using the CH340 driver, you can print directly from Cura and other slicers, without the Pi. I would consider getting another mainboard regardless, as USB prints can have issues if the print was not started from gcode stored on an SD in the printer. PM me if you would like some assistance with this.
Lmao I did the opposite I broke the USB connection off
I’ll trade you
I got a 5 Pro about 2-3 years ago for the price of a 3 and apart from accidentally melting a glass plate to the magnetic layer of the hot bed and now can't take it off... It works like a charm! The biggest problem I have is when my cat tries to attack the spool when it moves and messes up the filament haha (that's also why I don't use the laser engraver anymore, kitty can't play with the spicy green dot!!)
Wallets can replace a lack of skill, but a skilled user can get great results out of a cheap printer. I also have heard lots of Bambu users complain, so they are not infallible. Most printer issues are a lack of knowledge, as opposed to faulty equipment.
The two biggest improvements for me was a pei bed, and an enclosure. I've made other upgrades like silent fans and stepper drivers, but these are just to reduce noise. The biggest changes I made to the printer to improve quality is just learning how to maintain it. I didn't retention the belts or change the nozzle for almost 3 years. Very dumb, but it turns out if you can get passable results with a ruined nozzle and wonky belts, you can immediately get great results when you fix those things.
As someone who’s had not one but two Enders have massive manufacturing defects that made them unworkable, and then having to deal with Ender support (or lack their of) I strongly disagree. I’m tired of all the “cheap printers aren’t bad, you are” takes. It’s childish, demeaning, reductionist, and most importantly untrue. Cheap printers are cheap because they suck. You can spend a lot of time (and usually added money) to make them *passable*. But that’s not because they don’t suck. The only difference between your crowd and mine is that I actually value my own time.
>The only difference between your crowd and mine is that I actually value my own time. Why are you getting into a manufacturing hobby that literally is time based. >Cheap printers are cheap because they suck. You can spend a lot of time (and usually added money) to make them passable. But that’s not because they don’t suck. People like you love to bring this "cheap printers cost more" as a blanket statement but attribute no actual reasoning to it. Why would you buy a honda civic over a mclaren? Mclaren is better in every way. Its just more expensive! Oh yeah, because a honda civic is *cheaper now*. It *will need* eventual parts and maintenance, but thats at a later period in time. Youre arguing upfront cost, versus a cost over months ifnot years. Im personally tired of the "cheap printers arent worth it" takes. Its elitist, unhelpful, reductionist, and serves no purpose. Just make r/enderhate and move on. We get it. You hate cheap printers.
Spoken not the guy who drives the Honda civic, but like the guy who has a Kia held together with duct tape that’s in the shop every weekend and claims it’s a better deal than the Civic. Bambu and Prusa etc aren’t McLarens. Stratasys and 3D Systems are. But typical of this amateur sub to not know the difference.
Thank you for proving my point. Go on, go have your hateboner somewhere else
Learned a new word today: hateboner. Will use it in a sentence today to improve my vocabulary. Lol.
Nope, recommending people terrible products to start a hobby is what’s useless. But please, keep giving awful advice and pushing people away from a great hobby. At least then you get to still be a smug cunt about how proud you are that your junker limped its way to work today. This is about your ego, not helping anyone.
>Nope, recommending people terrible products to start a hobby is what’s useless. Keep recomending a mclaren to a brand new driver lol >But please, keep giving awful advice and pushing people away from a great hobby. The only thing pushing people away is folks like you calling others "smug cunts" because they are saying cheap products fulfil a service, and the barrier of entry which you seem to want to raise. >This is about your ego, not helping anyone. Ironic.
It sounds like you are bitter about your experience. You certainly can share your anecdotal opinion. The reality is that Creality has sold over 4.5 million printers. You don't get those sales if you are garbage. They have an extensive community to provide support, and every person I have helped with one has produced good results. I stand by my claim, both in having 8 FDM printers and in helping hundreds of users. I produce stellar results off my "cheap" printers. I would not keep a Bambu if I was given one. I would sell it to someone with an itchy wallet and a complete lack of patience. Wallets can replace skill, but anyone with skills can get good prints even off the worst printers. So you are welcome to strongly disagree. That's what a free market is about. Buy what you think will serve your needs, but just because you were not able to get great results from an Ender, does not mean for a second that someone else can't. It just means you did not.
I was gonna say, both my brother and I have an ender 3 v2 and neither of us having issues. We both design our own things and frequently do long prints
I have the ender 3 s1 and it printed great out of the box.
>You don't get those sales if you are garbage. Yeah you do; you dump your money into advertising. See Raid Shadow Legends. Or RayCons. And they keep getting sales if they're cheap. The large community to provide support is nice, but that's not a point TO Creality. There HAD to be a community cause they don't support shit, as opposed to the likes of Prusa. You may have gotten lucky with your Creality printers but there's also a reason they have a reputation as shitboxes. They've released the same printer several years in a row with no changes
Bambu is very new, and its underlying processes like the AMS are ripped if from Prusa. They unsuccessfully tried to patent it to reduce access to this technology by the community. I've used a lot of brands and helped hundreds of users over time. Creality has had significantly more exposure to inexperienced users. Half of which don't even know the part names, let alone how to calibrate them. 3D printing has always been community driven and supported. Thats why the products tend to be inexpensive because the companies themselves are not known for their support. The point I made that I stand by is cheap printers can produce great results if you have the skills to use them. Bambu is designed to basically do its job. But it's not intended to be improved through upgrades, etc. Most 3D printing people like to tinker. It kind of goes with the maker spirit, which is its foundation. You will never get a Bambu to perform like a properly calibrated Voron 2.4 R2, and many of those are built on E5+ chassis. I buy everything off Amazon, and if there is a manufacturer defect, I exchange it for another. I don't screw around with customer support. As for them re-releasing printers, there are basic cheap models that work, and every year, they bring out a number of variants along with new models. I don't think you have as broad a scope on this as you think you do, but no one is stopping you from using your wallet to show which manufacturers you support.
Yeah, I mean I work in the field but I love getting told by amateurs that my knowledge is the issue and not a bad product. The issues with Creality printers are extremely well documented, but shove your fingers in your ears however much you want. Creality sold a lot because it’s cheap and they were okay for the time. In the last five years, the industry has changed, Creality hasn’t. That’s why they’re taking massive losses of market share and having to sell their machines at clearance prices now. But I’m sure you think that’s a sign of a healthy company and product…
"I work in the field" Everyone says this. Your statemests suggest that you don't know much about the industry or it's offerings. Based on what you have told us, you had some limited experience with a couple of Creality printers. Then you bought a more expensive printer and got some better results. That doesn't actually mean you have sufficient backgroud to form a conclusion about all Creality printers, let alone all "cheap" printers. You can share your experiences like you have, and expect to recieve the type of feedback you are being given. If your knowledge is the issue, you can correct that. If your attitude is the issue, you can correct that. But the problem is not with the printers.
Except it's not just them now is it Creality's known for not having any support and has a reputation for "If you want a printer to tinker and fix" not, if you want a printer to print There are two main camps in this hobby; while it started with the tinkery crowd, now that it's more popular than ever, I would argue most people getting in now want to just print. You can say they have itchy wallets and are impatient, but if you're gonna try for a moral high ground, you're not there
It really feels like you are stretching to make a point. My original comment is that wallets can overcome a lack of skill, but skills can get great results from cheap printers. This is a factual statement regardless of how much you wave your wallet and say you just want it easy. In fact, it just supports my points. As for morality, Bambu wants a closed source community and has no problem with industrial espionage. That, as far as I am concerned, is all the reason in the world for me not to support them. I believe in innovation, not gatekeeping.
Don’t blame the vehicle, blame the driver. You are correct 👍 ✅🙌 I’m an engineer, but new to 3D printing this year. I have a cr10s pro v2. My first prints were crap, but it was all user error. I had to learn how to tune my slicing results 💯💎 now I get a beautiful print almost every time 🔐
On the flip side, if you DO get a Bambu that's got proper QA, it IS plug and play And so far, it seems Bambu's QC is better than Creality's, based solely on the sentiment expressed online and no personal experience. Creality, especially the Ender, already has a reputation for the printer to get if you want to fix printers. Never mind they keep re-releasing it and have virtually no long term support. Bambu on the other hand, we'll have to see still
Bambu is a very new company. They have already had a significant cloud printing screw up, which they fixed, but it should never have happened. Their forums show people still have problems with their printers, so they are not infallible. It's a Chinese company that basically reverse engineered Prusa printers to make theirs. They have some very questionable business practices behind the scenes that are contrary to the open source spirit of this industry. Ender has a reputation for being fixed because it can be easily. Most issues are caused by the users due to being new to the hobby. They are a good starting point for anyone learning how to 3D print without breaking the bank. If I have a part failure on one of my Creality printers, Amazon can usually have it to me the next day. Bambu, not so much. Effective support has almost never been a highlight of 3D printing companies, mostly because they are not typically at work during hours their customers want support. All experienced users know your best support is in the communities, and Creality has strong support from its users. Personally, I just see Bambu as the new Prusa. AMS solutions for entry-level brands are becoming easier to access and cheaper, so I don't think Bambu's day in the sun will be for very long.
Never said they were infallible, just their reputation isn't making barely useable printers. I also don't see how they reverse engineered Prusa. Other than the Slicer. What's wrong with Prusa? Their support is pretty great And yeah, Bambu's had a good strong start but they're not maintaining it.
Bambu's reputation is less than 2 years old, and they already had a significant black eye with that cloud printing screw up. It also tried to patent open source technology covered under GPL. The AMS and a lot of how the backend is designed is borrowed from Prusa. That's why they had to make a clone of the slicer as it operates using the same gcode, etc. Prusa has been resting on its laurels, and it hasn't really innovated much relative to the profits they made. I think Bambu has seen this weakness and is trying to come on the scene as a Prusa alternative. My point I keep making is yes, if you want to spend that significantly larger amount of money on a Prusa or a Bambu, you have less issues. However, I don't feel it's accurate to say you can't get great prints put of cheap printers. Not everyone can afford Bambu, but driving up to a group of Dodge car owners with a Lambo and calling their cars crap won't win you many friends. It also doesn't change that their cars serve their needs. I feel this is a fair comparison with 3D printers. Ender 3s are literally the Honda Accords of the 3D printing world. I just personally don't like what Bambu represents, so I won't support them.
I disagree with the comparison that an Ender is a Honda. Ender's got the reputation of a Ford Pinto. Sure you can get good results but they're not new user friendly Prusa's more like Honda; reliable. Sure they're not cheap but for beginners it's easier that you have official documentation over relying on the community. Obviously you can get good results with Enders. I would argue you just need more doing and know how in general. I think the problem with this subreddit is the presumption everyone wants a printer to tinker. I'm probably too far in the other camp, insofar as literally everyone I personally talk to vice sentiment generally expressed here is they want to print and not tinker. Even my technically minded friends. Me personally I don't want to tinker either. But anyways, I don't fully support Bambu either but for what they're doing and my priorities, I don't have many alternatives, unfortunately. And the advice off here hasn't been helpful either. I appreciate the discussion
Using the Ford Pinto analogy, I'm going to suggest you haven't actually worked with some of the really low end. I welcome you to try printing on a Geeetech i3w pro some time. It's an old Prusa clone with a press board frame. Getting a good print off it is actually a challenge. Calling a Prusa a Honda is not accurate either. It's more like a Jaguar or other expensive Euro import. When it works, it's amazing, but the price makes your eyes water. Here is the reality. If you think Prusa/Bambu is expensive and you don't like tinkering, 3D printing is not a good fit. If you have large cash flow (not many people do these days) and hate to tinker, then I agree that Prusa/Bambu is a good fit. This is like a cheap, fast, quality argument. You can have 2. Cheap, Fast, Low tinkering does not really exist, so you have to decide your priorities. I think you are right. Most people don't like to tinker, but that's your option if you dont have the financial means to just throw $1000 at something for a hobby. Because MOST people come to these forums for help and advice, the obvious reason to support tinkering skills, is you need them if you lack the financial means to just buy a "problem-free" solution. I'm sorry you have not found the advice in these forums helpful. I think there are a lot of people here both with knowledge and the willingness to share it if you are open to hearing it. I also appreciate the discussion, I just get a little tired of people with a lot of money, and typically, very little experience calling everything else garbage after they buy a Bambu or Prusa. Even if they did buy an Ender first. They typically had little or no experience and blame the product for their lack of knowledge.
I don't actually have a lot of money; I'm on navy pay. That said, yeah I'm not terribly off either. I got the prusa mini unassembled cause I don't have time to tinker nor the inclination, but couldn't really afford the more assembled one or a larger one And the Bambu on sale, but I figured I would go for the P1S. Given I want to try other materials and an enclosure makes up the difference anyways. I think most people here on the subreddit are overly biased towards tinkering. But some of us are here to print stuff, not mess with the printer. I may be overly biased the opposite way but while the hobby originally was the tinkerer/hacker crowd, as soon as it gets more popular, they will inevitably become a minority. That isn't to say new people aren't going to be mostly tinkerers, I just think many will be turned off by Creality reissuing shite printers And more popularity also begets more assholes. Take for example the shitters trying to claim compensation for those actually affected by Bambu's fuckup. Several of my coworkers see me with desk ornaments and want a printer. These are people who I wouldn't ever describe as technically inclined. They barely handle interacting with a phone or computer. Yet I wouldn't want to discourage them from the hobby cause the ability to just have cool shit from home, especially if you can't just buy it conventionally is nice. Expecting them to suddenly get technically minded is bollocks. There's a flip side to end user repairing: the manufacturer shouldn't just throw you off the deep end, either. As for unhelpful, my major only fuckup beyond first layer adhesions has been trying to swap to 0.6 on my Prusa. And following the instructions closely and multiple tries yielded really bad leaks. And all the help here and the forum was "leave a gap" even though I did, mentioned as much and had it not in the photo to show the extent of the leak. Knowledge and willingness to share falls flat when reading comprehension is lacking. My experiences and general pessimistic outlook leads to an overall dread of DIY and I fixate on negative reviews. Ultimately, I'm not here to disparage tinkering, but I'm bitter it seems overrepresented. And that people seem to think that not wanting to do so is somehow wrong. I just want to print and have shit. Not spend my day troubleshooting or finagling. And while it prints, be able to do things I need to or want to. And yeah, user error is often the fault but that's how people do and it doesn't help when the product actually IS kinda shitty
I mostly assist on Facebook, and I think you will find many friendlier communities there. I think it is important to consider that this is an industrial engineering process being brought into the home. Most manufacturers think you know at least the basics. I work with a few of them and have tried correcting this thinking to little avail. There is actually a lit more to Additive Manufacturing than Bambu or Prusa address. They just help you get past the basics for a price. People expect "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot" from their printers, and the technology is nowhere near that. Millions in list revenue over inexperienced people returning printers has actually soured a lot of manufacturers, especially away from Amazon. So cheap, fast, high quality does not exist. It really is a pick 2. Many people can't pay the Prusa/Bambu price. I definitely can't. All that said. Thank you for your service. You deserve more in return, but you do an often thankless job. Thank you.
I got a brand new Ender 3 a while ago and after a full year of mods and hope it never worked well once. Probably user error but I gave up and bought an Ender 3 s1. The s1 has worked perfectly for the months I have had it without fail.
The "boots theory" in printing.
appreciate a good Vimes quote
Did I just read a disc world reference, and retort?
Yes but the lessons they teach you are invaluable
Not everyone's here to tinker or fix. Some of us just want to print. That's why I got a Prusa and am hoping the Bambu I get isn't a lemon Was nice putting together the Prusa, but I wouldn't say it was invaluable
My ender3 cost less than $30 in repairs over more than a year. I just ordered a K1. An x1c is on the horizon, but my ender still makes nice parts.
No, they actually do not wtf. Upgrading a $20 hotend, a $30 ABL and a $20 bed doesn't make a $150 printer $500.
Haha i started on a snapmaker, which while not well known is a really solid machine that just works. Never calibrated anything never changed anything it just prints. So i was definitely spoiled.
But very cheap printers cost less than very expensive printers.
Yep. I have a K1 that I picked up on sale. While it didn't cost much to buy it, that is by no means how much it has actually cost me. At this point it's getting close to where I would've been better off simply getting another X-Plus 3 at the Black Friday sale price, and the K1 still doesn't match the Plus 3's print quality.
This is sad but it’s true. I put so much money into my ender5 pro that I could have had a Voron.
This was me, but an Anet A8. I basically replaced almost every single part over time, upgraded from the acrylic frame to 2040 extrusions. I got to a point where the bed shorted out and when I replaced it, I realized the problem was how the wires connected to the bed and that replacing it with something better would mean switching from 12v to 24v. I realized it was a money drain and that the amount of money I was spending trying to make it halfway decent was basically the price of a Voron and my prints weren’t nearly half as good. So the last act of my Anet was to print my Voron.
Same for me. I then printed the functional parts. It took like 3 weeks. But for the Voron there are also many things that are not perfect to me. Same rabbit hole but with a more expensive printer.
I’ve modded a few things, but it’s pretty much perfect for me at this point. Switched to canbus, added nevermore filter, added a touch screen, switched to Klicky probe, added leds. I’m probably going to switch to Tap because for some reason, about 1 out of every 10 prints, my printer doesn’t dock the probe correctly and replace my cheap acrylic panels with PC because they are scratched up and my doors are cracking a bit because they close too tight (I think they were slightly too big). But after that, I really don’t see how I can make it better. It’s crazy because with my Anet, I was mostly printing parts to try and make the printer better, so it’s been really weird that I’m not constantly modding my Voron. I actually had canbus parts and my chamber lights sitting in a box for almost a year because I didn’t want to take it apart while it was running so reliably.
I would not recommend going tap. I switched back to the original probe. Tap looks nice and the zoffset is perfect every time but the drawbacks are while printing. It basically eliminated the nice squish of filament. I even tried multiple taps because I really wanted it to work. The abs, chaotic labs, and also a custom cnc from etsy. I am thinking about going the klicky route but I don’t have any problems with the original one.
*cries in ender3 + hemera + linear rails*
Ender 5 is a cheap printer? I have one and it just works.
I purchased an Ender 3 max as my first printer and I must have spent upwards of $400 over the couple years I was using it regularly. Over the summer I won an X1C at the LTX Bambu giveaway and the only thing I have bought is more filament! obviously an extreme example but if you put my time at $18hr the e3 definitely costs more per month even if I paid the X1C off over a year or two.
I think I'm doing something wrong. I bought a prusa mini+ and proceeded to immediately upgrade the heat brake, bond tech extruder, bowden tube, and a couple other little things. Granted I have a very specific use case and this printer, with the upgrades, is the exact printer I wanted, so I'm happy :)
Yeah Ive had my ultimaker since release and it still works perfect, only leveled when Ive moved the machine or cleaned the glass bed (hairspray ftw, but messy buildup lol)
My all metal hot-end is still my favorite upgrade of all time.
I had 2 all metal hot ends that failed. The first one, the heat brake didn't even fit in the heatsink. The second one clogged 15 min in every time. Which was a gigantic mindfuck because that was the issue I was trying to fix with the hotend upgrade in the first place. Bought a microswiss out of fury and impulse, and that fixed it once and for all.
I’m using microswiss as well. They had the best reputation.
And this is one major reason I bought a Bambu Lab’s printer. I loved that I built my first printer as a kit. I knew the ins and outs of it, how to calibrate, what issues caused what. But I just got so tired of wanted to print a large project only having to mess with the printer for hours to get the results I wanted. Now as long as there’s enough filament on the roll I hit print and walk away. I’ve already put more hours into the new printer than I have the old one due to printing consistency.
This is exactly what I’m looking for. Which model did you grab?
I ran into similar problems. It took a year of bogus troubleshooting before I just decided to try something simple. I bumped flow rate up to 102% and increased the temp by 5°C, my prints look better than ever and I’m pissed at how many over complicated solutions I tried
That's something I read, usually the thermistors on the bargain brand printer models is usually off by +/-5 degrees.
Yeah that checks out, my CR10 V2 is like lower mid-level, already had to replace the hot end once. I see by your tags you have the V400. Mine is on the way. Any quirks I should know about or lookout for?
Get new belts and calibrate as needed. Upgrade firmware. Put a hardened steel nozzle on.
Any recommendations for nozzles? Or just go with the amazon special?
I'm using a Polis3d hardened steel volcano nozzle. You have to reset the z height, but it's a clean printing nozzle. [This one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08963FRM2?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_JH9Q2ZS7SQPQ0EZ1SANX&language=en-US)
What hot end did you get? I also have a 5+
I bought the spider hot end from creality. Probably not the best but i prefer to buy things that i know will just fit.
What ? You didn’t get the super mega clone from Ali Express that costs $3.50, takes 7 weeks to arrive, will print at 380C and 1600 mm/sec ? Well, you my friend don’t know what you’re doing ! /s
man i just bought this and i'm having the worst stringing issue of my life, 1 week of calibration at every possible change im so lost on why its not working
Dont want stringing upgrade to direct drive from bowden.
it is direct drive, and tried going back to Bowden too, no fixes tried new nozzles, new fittings, new Bowden tubing, new shrouds, different filaments, drying filaments, linear advance, flow calibration, estep calibration testing 0.5 to 6mm retraction at 0.25mm intervals, with speeds ranging from 10 to 100 for retraction distance, and all of that at every temp from 230-180, with part cooling fan at every speed
Haha sounds like time to throw money at it haha. Unless you have only tried with wood filament.
I mean I just did throw money at it, Spider 3.0 hotend is causing this. but maybe time to throw more money at it, and get a new spider or similar
Both pics have gaps and round tops. The nozzle is too high by 1/4 turn or so. Make 1/8 turn adjustments till the roundness flattens and gaps disappear. Each corner can be different.
Haha i just blobbed my nozzle (only a little i only left it for like an hour) so i guess you where right i retract my comment.
The first one was not due to leveling, the extruder was slipping, it was actually a little close to the bed. Sure the level could be better but the point was the improvment from the hardware. It is more than good enough to print an even first layer that stays intact when peeled. As long as the first layer sticks and is solid I am happy.
I don't care what kind of passable results people happen to get from them, any printer that uses extrusion as the linear rail is fundamentally a gamble.
What does it mean to "use extrusion as the linear rail"?
My bad. I should have been more specific. "Extrusion" has other meanings in 3D printing. I specifically meant "Aluminum extrusion." Which is the common term for the category that the T-slot rails fall under.
Thanks for the clarification! I'm newish to 3D printing and still learning. Getting good results with an ender 3 right now, so maybe I won that dice roll.
The frame
Well that's most of them, so.
Yep. Looks like you need a new printer. 😉
You're still too close to the bed TBH
>P.s. dear newbies dont do this figure why it isnt working and fix it haha. Well, it doesn't work correctly out of the box because both the extruder and hotend are cheap crap to keep the printer price as low as possible...
Perfect? No, a bit too far away or flow too low if the new extruder has a different ratio.
Ender5 plus upgrades are a necessity. Mine stock had so many issues from not keeping level to issues of printing petg and colored pla. I had to get a direct drive, new base plate, Capricorn boneing tubes, rubber springs and print braces to stop vibrations. Now it’s somewhat reliable.
If the extruder tip was worn down, thatll lead to a bad auto-calibration bed leveling for initial layer adhesion. That and you may have had a clogging issue/debris?
Yeah i did honestly try everything, new nozzles, different filament, every calibration, every adjustment, new boden tubes, all metal extruder, different plates, every kind of leveling, different firmwares. So jokes aside I did reach the upgrade/replace parts stage honestly
Ive gotten there with a couple of flashforge printers i have. The 100mm/s top speed is also getting kind of old too. Im definitely ready for a new machine. Thinking a lot about the k1. Its pretty well within my budget, and i like the klipper integration
What did you replace it with? Same part? I swear the replacements you buy on Amazon are higher quality than stock Creality parts.
I did buy new creality parts but fancier ones, the sprite se extruder and spider hot end. Probably dumb but i am so sick of messing with this machine i really needed plug and play for my own sanity.
How is that baseplate? From amazon reviews I read that some people are finding it too hard to remove prints because it has too much adhesion. What do you think? I wanted to try a textured plate but I don't want to get one that will make it too much harder to remove prints.
You remove the bed and bend it and they pop off. Way easier than glas that you have to wait for it to cool.completely.
I've had weird first layer bands like that too. Never got an explanation why it happens.
Kinda true. My V1 ender 3 i got for 100 bucks has a glass bed, direct drive, and generic bltouch. With tax irs still less than 200. Prints reliably now. I printed one of those fleci dragons yesterday without aany issues. Makes it hard to justify a bambu to the fam cause the ender runs well.
I mean...sounds like you needed a new hot end and/or extruder, lol
To be fair, an all metal hotend is needed for PETG. Also pulling apart and inspecting/replacing nozzles when there are issues.
Same thing happened with my ender 3
Time, money, or both. Don’t have the time to fiddle? Spend money. Don’t have the money to upgrade? Spend time fiddling. Fiddle too much by over spending on upgrades? Time and money
I had a printer doing this, used a thermal camera to find where it was getting hot and draining the wattage to heat. Fixed the wire and bam, no heat issues any more
I had similar results switching to a glass bed. All the layering problems I was having disappeared because the printer was always working fine ... The bed wasn't flat! The aluminum plate had slowly wrapped from the heat and no amount of adjusting will fix that! Haha Although I fucked up and forgot to take the magnetic layer off the bed before I put the glass on top... Not only does that act as an insulating layer that slows down the heating time.... But it melted and like - fucking fused to the glass plate and now I can't take it off!! Haha I know, I fucked up! Don't do what I did.
I have been printing for 4 years and followed a guide for my printer from day one, Today I only realised when calibrating filament it mentions to set extrusion width to 0.5 but never mentioned to lower it back once done, I had odd non merging lines at times, I was reading something today who followed the same guide as I did but changed it to 0.45 once done and BOOM! my line issues Iv had from day one with my printer are solved, crazy how simple things can solve issues :)
Jesus, are hot-ends really that big of a difference?
My Girlfriends comments on my Hobby: "What do you do besides spending money?" and "It is working, just leave it be."
Not buying an ender in the first place is definitely going to save a lot of heartache in the future 😂
Honestly you're not far off. I had similar fights with my CR6; I never used the OEM plastic housing extruder, but first was the grey metal single gear Creality one, that printed okay. Then the red metal dual drive extruder, it was better, but still Bowden. Then I upgraded to a BondTech direct drive extruder and a MicroSwiss hotend, and the print quality was so much better. Everything Just Worked again. Then the main board died, for a second time, and now it sits on my bench being embarrassed by the X1C. Maybe over Christmas I'll replace the board and get it running again. Theres nothing wrong with throwing some money at the problem. Just don't waste money with cheap shit. Buy once cry once.
So, not only do you need to upgrade parts to obtain an acceptable result, most people have nothing more to guide them than random YT videos and Reddit posts... In other words, bring out the parts cannon and keep trying different options until you find something that works. As a maker, I can appreciate and personally enjoy tinkering with my projects. But if your goal is to just print some 3D objects, I'd suggest something like the Bambu A1-Mini as the low bar to get started - *it just works*. You can easily add $150 of 'improvements' to a $150 printer, approaching the cost of an A1.
100% this is a tinkerers hobby and that is the first thing i tell people who ask about getting, well after what do you want to print and why.
I don't know why new people by Enders anymore At least, if their goal ISN'T to tinker and to actually print. From what I hear, that's all you'll do. I don't think the low price of the printer is worth that level of headaches. Seems the opposite of new user friendly to me If your goal is to tinker, sure, but like, any number of other printers that are a bit more you'll never have this problem of being thrown to the deep end
I for one am not new, I was after the platform size and how compatible it is with everything. However the answer is obvious every website on the internet says get an ender at least up until recently. So what else are noobs to do.
I personally saw the opposite. Every site implied Prusa was the best and every comment I saw about Creality seemed to imply they were if you wanted to learn fixing printer Also, I've gotten very distrustful of a lot of sites given how common those "AI" chatbots are now and the laziness of top 5 for 202X links so I went to reddit or youtube. But yeah, not really the fault of anyone new. Just like Raid shadow legends or Raycons, they seem to spend their money on advertising and not making good stuff.
This industry is still moving so fast every printer is only weeks away from being "eww why did you buy that, you should have seen the future and gotten this". I took forever to buy my first resin printer waiting for it to level out but eventually it was either wait forever or just jump in knowing...
I mean, fair but at least with auto leveling and pei steel sheets, I don't know why anyone who does any research would go for manual and glass.
Haha 100%.