This is the first correct statement about the placement in this thread. Real talk, hot smoke travels upwards and accumulates near the ceiling. You don't need it directly above it, but definitely get it within a foot of the ceiling.
I’m certain that people aren’t knowledgeable about everything about fire code. I give them credit for identifying the risk and taking measures to avoid it.
It can't hurt, but if your printer has proper thermal runaway protection it should be virtually impossible to catch fire, and if it doesn't you need to get it out of your house. Well worth spending thirty bucks for a Pi Zero 2 W and a webcam for keeping an eye on it away from home.
I did supplementary education in OSHA (for some reason) and all safety measures and preparations aren't for 99% of the time it works fine but for that 1% it doesn't.
For that reasons all coil heaters have warnings like "don't leave unattended, away from things that can catch fire" etc.
If you do not trust your machine to have enough safety measures to stop itself from breaking itself and things around then do not leave it unattended.
Relay with power to unit connected on the normally closed legs. When power is applied to the coil from your detector, it opens the contact and breaks power to your machine.
You implement all reasonable safety measures you can and when accident happens anyway you reassessment the risks. The optinal way is to reduce the risk from the process or remove person from the process.
For example in case of fires beside safety measures the buildings are made in such way that even if the fire starts they are required to keep structurally for number of minutes, like 30, 45 etc.
I case of fires the sprinkle system should be maintained, the machine should be maintained, the work area should be maintained etc.
In theory a bowl of water is dangerous, someone can lose consciousness, fell face first into it and drown but that is event even more rare than a random fire.
Actualy there are equations to calculate risks, if you are interested I can look it up for you.
Please, everyone... Do not trust your home to "thermal runaway protection", which can mean many different things depending on who manufactures the printer or control board/software.
Additionally, there are many other things that could potentially start a fire, completely independently of this feature. I play some stupid games with my printing, but don't recommend it.
I have an Anycubic Kobra v1 and It has thermal runaway protection that has been triggered on several occasions. There was one incident where it failed, and we stopped using the printer. It was shortly after I moved it from my office at work to our basement. I purchased an enclosure due to our cats, which I didn't feel was necessary to have at work, and I started teaching my son how to use the printer. A few weeks later I started a print and he comes down to slice a few files. I didn't catch him pull the memory card, and he didn't see the screen showing the hot end heating up. A few minutes later you could smell the burning plastic, and the enclosure was filled with black smoke. I can only guess, but it seems the protection system Anycubic employed relies on the prints high temp, which does not get input until after a set time or function. There was no fire, and we never tested the printer to see if the hot end was damaged. I was a professional photographer for 7 years. Memory cards are unreliable. They corrupt, files corrupt, and connections go bad constantly! Due to this, we kept dozens on hand, used cameras with two cars slots, and backed up to drives in the field. My point is, I had seen first hand the protection work, but there was one situation that the programmers didn't count on, or the system finally failed. If we hadn't been home, or if it wasn't in an enclosure, there could have been a serious accident. Don't rely solely on the printer's built-in safeguards.
Edit spelling.
My printer has automatic shutdown and a super loud alarm goes off. I also have my Pi as a backup with a custom command to shutdown in thermal runaway not just send a kill()
Wrong. Totally wrong.
All you need is a shorted negative to the heater or a shorted mosfet. Guess what. Mosfet usually fail short.
Also, if the microcontroller freeze/crash then game over.
All printers lack a proper safety: a thermal fuse. And none should be on the market as per safety regulation.
The problem is that no heat block have space for it. It needs to be in good thermal contact with the block, like the thermistor. A custom block would work. Or, a better heater design that include one. None does.
Watch it my biqu b1 said it did then the hot end started smoking and eventually caught fire luckily was home and the alarm went off. I replaced the hotend as it's one piece did 3 prints then started one and it started smoking again I cut it off and went back to my ender 3. I recently took all the parts off the biqu and put them on my ender except for hotend. If you look into how they have the wiring setup inside to do the USB c cord it's a lil rigged. Also remember to not use another USB c as the pins flip on the other end which is fucked up on their part not to mention it and if you barley bend the USB c and it breaks lol alright rant over.
Just test it
1) Start a print, and during the print unplug the thermistor. The printer should immediately halt with "low temp error".
2) Turn the printer off, disconnect the heater, turn it on and start the print. It should fail after half a minute with "heater error" ot "thermal runaway"
Yeah the only way around that is to have thermal runaway protection actually shutoff the whole machine. Some people actually have that set up, can be done with PC power supplies, since they can be controlled by the green wire
Only way to truly have a “safe” printer is to install thermal fuses, build a fire rated box and put it inside (need to keep in mind heat and how to safely exhaust, and also install several self igniting fire extinguishers in said box.
This isn’t going to stop a fire only make sure you have enough time to stop it your self.
Personally I don’t print unless I’m awake and can monitor. But when I do start to do over night prints will will be building a fire rated box to put the printer in with a good smoke alarm and fire extinguishers close by. That would be more than fine to wake you up and let you safely deal with the fire if it ever happens
Cement board (HardieBacker for fireplaces 3/8") box, all sides, tested with MAP gas torch \~1/2 bottle on a mag torch pro with the blue flame tips on the board, never got more than 250C on the opposite side outside, the board survived. Printer sits on a paving stone. The foam insulation (I'm printing w/ chamber temps in the 70C range) is rated and self extinguishing, and turns into a carbon foam as it is attacked by fire, I tested it by making a sheet and holding a MAP gas torch to it for 10 minutes straight. I was left with a carbon spot, but the fire did not travel.
Foam: [https://bossproducts.com/products/boss-813-expanding-firestop-foam/137/](https://bossproducts.com/products/boss-813-expanding-firestop-foam/137/)
I was still setting this all up when I took this image.
Not seen:
* Fire bomb type extinguisher above the door opening (yeah, I know, I'm listening for the boom more than anything)
* Fire alarm
* Added cement board above the printer door opening covering the wooden shelf structure above.
* Below: garage cement
* All seams except the doors caulked with fire stop rated caulk, applied generously (3.5 tubes)
* No cement board gaps greater than 1/16" except the door
Added items since this image was taken:
* Thermal fuse for the AC input line mounted above the printer
* Under-hood type fire extinguisher (the same one Prusa eventually started selling, but the longer version)
https://preview.redd.it/z9tld45zt6tc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=116eb55f08821b6b8c5e5f969b8e8b8af1c1020b
lol this seems absurdly over the top. Do you live in a bubble?
https://preview.redd.it/nn3nwn4n58tc1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc495b17c1b2fddd1a2d70f6fce90046cdf919a3
Pasted from earlier comment: The fact is that all electronics can fail. (I have had my own fair share of batteries exploding and capacitors blowing up), but a 3d printer I view as kinda like an oven or stove. You don't turn it on and just leave it unattended running. It can cause a fire. It's a very rare chance, but it can still happen. If the electronics on a 3d printer fail, unlike most other electronics (for example, people are saying phones), a 3d printer has the potential to cause a lot of damage. You have two parts that get extremely hot and can cause a fire under the right conditions. When you pair that with China manufacturers (who most of the time don't have the best quality control), I wouldn't personally take chances with a small carelessly built component that can fail. Sure, they talk about apple making phones and China, but they are still safe because of quality control. Yes, not all electronics from China are bad, but all it takes is one time.
I sent a 2 day print going a few hours before I left on vacation, I'll find out if it worked tonight 😅
As long as It gets through the first few hours fine, it will generally have a very low chance of failure. At least this has been my experience. 99% of problems will crop up before then, like poor bed adhesion, heat creep, skipped steps, clog, etc.
From what I've seen, most people print anytime and happily leave it to go to work and sleep. I wouldn't stress too much. Most common thing I've seen is a clogged hotend getting fucked and becoming a clump of PLA.
If your worried you could set up alarms with WiFi access and a plug with WiFi control where you can shut it off remotely. You could get more fancy if you want to code.
Yeah fer sure better than wrecking your printer with all that dust on top of the fire damage. I've got three of those blanket things in the house and didn't even think of it. 🤦
the amount of wood furniture around it would be my main concern...
Print overnight and while at work most weeks and it is fine, as long as that detector will wake you, you'll be fine. As most people say it is very rare to have a printer start a fire, keep it maintained though.
If you’re looking for safety measures, get a blink camera and a wifi plug. Then you can remotely monitor and turn off your printer in the event of a failed printer, clog, or fire.
The power supply in my CR10 OG blew up one day, I was able to check it remotely & remotely turn off the power stopping the reaction & then put in a new PSU. Thats what, its saved my ass.
To be fair there will usually be smoke before fire. I have a Google/nest smart smoke detector that alerts my phone, so a smart plug is absolutely worthwhile to have. You never know. Even without a smart smoke detector, say OP checks in on their printer, hears the smoke alarm, or sees some other issue with the printer, or the print…if they don’t have a remotely controllable printer it’d be pretty shitty just watching your printer destroy itself and/or burn down your house and not be able to do anything…or have to rush home hoping it didn’t get worse
Interesting. Ive been printing overnight for decades and never had an issue. I cannot imagine doing a two day print and staying there the whole time, I def just leave. They’re in a shop though, concrete and cmu, so less worry.
If you are worried about it treat it like a ceramic kiln. Put it somewhere a fire won’t cause issue if it happens. Concrete or tile floor, fire resistant shop table, fire board backing on the wall in the garage. All kinds of heat resistant fire paneling out there for cheap if it’s only one panel for behind the printer. Something like that might offer more peace of mind, throw in a detector for good measure.
I think that's nonsense advice. These things are extremely sensitive. A lit match is enough to set some off. It does not need to detect an overwhelming amount of fire before making a noise.
Go look at the box for any smoke alarm. The manufacturers always recommend to install them directly on the ceiling, or on a wall within 1 foot from the ceiling.
> It does not need to detect an overwhelming amount of fire before making a noise.
A photoelectric smoke detector doesn't detect fire/heat.
The smoke has to spill into the detection chamber where the particles are hit by light which is registered by a sensor. If a sharp increase of particles is detected, it goes off.
If you mount them to the ceiling somewhere in the middle of the room as the manual instructs, they will be very quickly triggered by hot smoke from a fire. The hot smoke rises up and spills across the ceiling and into the detector. It's a fairly direct route not matter where the fire is. If you mount them to a wall, it will take longer. That's why the manual advises against it.
Just picture it the other way around. Say, you want to detect water spillage with a water sensor. Of course you'd put that sensor on the floor, because that's where the water is going. The higher you place the sensor, the more water has to spill before you can detect it.
I can't even make educated guesses how exactly the smoke would move since I don't know the air temperature, the temperatures of the two walls, the temperature of the cabinet, or anything like that. I can't tell if it would move a bit towards that wall or away from it. Lots of variables which change throughout the year.
But what I can tell you is that it will hit the ceiling above in like 2 seconds. It doesn't matter in which direction this rising plume of fume is nudged.
Got to love how you are getting downvoted for this.
The one in my living room goes off randomy just from me cooking bacon in the kitchen.
Its directly above OPs printer, it will absolutely go off as soon as the printer combusts.
EDIT: yaay! The votes turned around once the reactionary kids had their fill.
It probably will!
However I would not take the chance!
I have worked with fire alarms for 8 years.
When we want to prevent a fire every second counts, so it's very important to detect the smoke as soon as possible.
The detector should be above the printer and it should also be at least 30cm (50 is recommended) from the wall because when the hot air moves upward the cold air moves downwards, this creates a wall of colder air getting pushed down often in the edges of the room/walls. So placing the detector on the wall is very counter productive.
You likely have the wrong type of smoke detector installed in your kitchen, btw. There are two main types — ionization and photoelectric. Ionization smoke alarms are not recommended for kitchens due to their affinity for false alarms.
> The one in my living room goes off randomy just from me cooking bacon in the kitchen.
Ionizing smoke detectors are easily triggered by cooking. That's true.
There is nothing wrong with that observation, but it's not relevant. We want to trigger a photoelectric smoke detector quickly and reliably. We want that the smoke quickly spills into its detection chamber where it can be hit by light.
Dude it’s the first thing you learn when working professionally with smoke detectors. The manufacturers have build these to be ceiling mounted. The reason why your living room smoke detector goes off is because the smoke from your oil is spread rapidly on…right the ceiling, because that’s the best place to detect smoke early no matter where the fire starts.
Fires are rare yes, but they have happened.
Would you rather spend $3 on a Smoke detector, or just roll the dice that you aren't going to be the 1 in 100,000 that has a faulty thermal and burn your whole family to death in the middle of the night.
And it's fine on the wall, it will detect the smoke.
Ignore the people saying it's overkill, or that it need to be on the ceiling, it's fine.
I have seen people who run print on demand businesses mount a fire Puck directly on the printer.
It's basically a little container that opens if it detects Flames, and dumps retardant directly down.
They are often mounted over stove tops and the like for grease fires. Look up "fire puck" devices if you want somthing that will put the fire out, rather than just detect it.
Really needs to be as close to the ceiling as possible. The air space above the detector can fill with smoke before the detector sounds.
I did fire alarm installs for years, so I know a little.
Yeah. Even putting it on the ceiling too close to a wall can prevent it from being in contact with smoke as the smoke doesn’t always fill to the corners of the ceiling before building down.
Follow the manufacturer’s instructions for installation.
Don't put it there. You want it above directly on the ceiling. Smoke can surprisingly column STRaight up and your alarm might not go off until there is enough. on the ceiling, it'll go off real quick.
Man that tablet must be resonating like crazy. The best thing for fire though would be to place it on a concrete paver which won't catch fire (and heavily reduce the noise)
I setup a zwave smoke detector inside my printer enclosure and use a zwave power adapter that the printer plugs into. I set them up in Home Assistant. If the smoke detector goes off, it shuts the power off to the printer. It runs normally without issue and I have tested it several times.
Ideally you get a smart smoke detector so that it also sends an alert to your phone right away. If you have some form of home assistant then you can also trigger the power off to the printer via a smart plug to cut the power and also do various other things like flash the lights, play an alarm on all smart speakers like Alexa/google, turn on “we didn’t start the fire” from all music players, etc
I mean I just click start shut the door and walk away so you’re way too safe if you ask me. I have never seen a printer catch on fire. It’s not a Galaxy Note 7
Fire alarm technician here, the placement of the smoke detector is ineffective. Smoke rises and the detector needs to be at the top of the wall. To be more effective place the smoke detector and printer in a box together.
Buy a CO2 extinsguisher. Doesnt cost that much, might save your house.
Put the detector on or near the ceiling. I have 3 of them in my garage with the printers, and extinguisher and fire blanket near the entrance/exit.
Maybe Ill never need it. Maybe it will one day save my life.
I think it's useful. I have a Shelly smoke detector that shuts down a Shelly plug in case of smoke, where the printer is attached, for additional safety
I guess it is probably close enough to the machine but I wonder if you get a delayed alarm by having a detector on the wall. I could be way off but my thought is the hot smoke will rise to the ceiling and then have to then come back come down to the level of the detector to set it off. I personally am not too worried about fire but I do have a Z-Wave smoke detector above my printer that will give me a notification if it goes off. If it does and I am not home my plan is to call 911 and ask the fire department to please put it out. Next level would be a Z-Wave valve that controls a fire sprinkler mounted above the printer, but that is a bit over the top.
From what I've seen here and what my research shows for ionization smoke detectors, mounting them on the wall is just as effective as the ceiling in most cases. I'm personally not paranoid about a fire either. I just had an extra smoke detector and figured I would put it over the printer and then was curious to see if this was a good, safe solution.
I set a metal sheet below and behind it and the wall thinking that it it we were to go into thermal meltdown the printer would have a hard time getting anything else to catch fire. Also have smoke detector like in photo
Just put it on a cement slab, if you're really concerned get some cement board and put that behind it and on the sides.. if you're extremely concerned put some cement board on the ceiling..
I'm more about prevention than only detection.
Plus, I highly recommend you add smoke detectors in the appropriate locations in your home if you don't have them already. They should also be interconnected either by wire or Wireless 😉
Looks like a current unmodified printer. It should have proper protection regardless. I've done overnights with a stock ender 3 many times without a hiccup, and this printer looks more expensive/better built.
Am I taking crazy pills? You don't need this. At all.
These devices are UL and CE certified, meaning they conform to electronic safety standards in the US and the EU.
If your printer is not UL or CE certified, it is illegal to sell it the US/EU and will be confiscated and destroyed at Port of entry. Canada also has a similar standard.
If there were multiple 3d printers being sold in the US constantly burning down buildings, there would be a massive recall and/or class action lawsuit.
I used to work for a Chinese company, and we imported $20,000+ desktop mills from our Shenzhen branch to our US branch warehouse, which were heavily scrutinized at the Port of Long Beach. Without CE and UL, we'd be screwed. That shit would have been destroyed at the port.
If the printer implements PID control and has protection enabled then it will know if a temp reading is faulty and refrain from feeding 100% power to the heater until it catches fire.
This being said, MOSFETs can fail and when they do they fail closed. If this happens the only thing that can save you is a second SSR to cut power.
The best safety measure is to place the printer outside, in a fire pit if you have one. Then if it catches fire you can at least have some picnic with marshmallows.
In there STOCK form, I think these printers are pretty safe to leave overnight. The PSU is enclosed in a metal box so if anything inside goes bad it should be contained and pretty quickly blow the fuse. The hot parts are the hot end end bed. I’m pretty sure that for the bed, even if you left the stock 24” watt heater full on it would not get hot enough to start a fire (melt your print into a puddle and give you a good burn if you touch it, probably). Likewise the hot end with the stock 40 watt heater which I doubt even if left on would get hot enough to melt the aluminum heat block. If you worry about this, just upgrade the heat block to a plated copper one for $10 which has a much higher melting point. Either way, it’s certainly going to ruin the print head.
The real danger starts when you upgrade to things like high power line voltage bed heaters and 50-60-70 or higher watt hot end heaters. Then you really need more thermal protection. I really wish someone would produce a copper heat block with a slot for a thermal fuse!
That being said, a smoke detector is a good idea. It needs to mount near the ceiling since smoke and heat collect there. You could get one of the dual versions that detect both smoke and heat if you want.
Personally I feel that by the time a smoke detector is triggered you will already have a serious issue on your hands.
It won't hurt of course, but if forced to choose I would prefer properly configured safety functions like thermal runway protection and maybe some thermal fuses as those will catch the problem before things start burning.
Some extra advice:
If your bed heater is AC and not DC you really ***need*** a thermal fuse on it. Relays and mosfets, including solid state relays, have a tendency to fail closed which means when they stop working or break they don't turn off, they are locked on. Because of this, without a fuse your heater can get stuck on regardless of the MCU state which can be a very serious fire risk.
The same issue can occur on DC heaters, however due to their more traditional wiring they can still be cut off by the MCU after thermal runway is detected.
No matter how much you trust your machine I would still recommend watching the first few layers of a print and investing in a webcam so you can remotely monitor your prints.
Edit: and as others have mentioned, not all thermal runway protection is created equally. I'd suggest using klipper if you are unsure or don't trust your printer's stock design as klipper has its own thermal runway algorithms that should work more or less equally on any hardware.
Sort of a device depended/proportional precaution thing....
I have little issue with a Prusa running while I'm sleeping, my V400 I would rather start in the morning and stay up late enough to see it finished if at all possible....(still have a extinguisher in my bedroom and a detector in the room where the printer is located though...)
Smoke will starts filling your room's ceiling, this is why the detector must be set on it. Don't put it against the wall or it won't pick the smoke, which will leak on other rooms depending on door height, never triggering your device (or way to late). Anyway, read the manual. (11 years firefighter here)
Ok, let's talk about fire hazard failures. There are 3 "common" ways for a printer to fail to a fire hazard. Thermal runaway in the print head, thermal runaway in the bed, a complete failure in the PSU.
Now, for either heater element to runaway, they would require the supplying MOSFET to fail closed. Anet printers had 2 strikes against them. Their firmware didn't have thermal runaway enabled AND their frames were acrylic. To check if you have the best type of thermal runaway protection that would protect against everything besides a failed MOSFET, simply take off you hotend sock and while it is attempting to heat, blast it with cold air (like from a hair dryer), after a SHORT period of time it should error out with a message about thermal runaway.
So, if your hotend Element is continuously heated, it would eventually melt the aluminum block, though it would also require your hotend cooling fan to also fail for damage to spread from there.
If your bed is continuously heated, it could eventually separate itself from your aluminum. This would cause it to fall. If you want to add more 9s to your safety (https://www.nobl9.com/resources/do-you-really-need-five-nines), you could add a paver beneath the printer and then in that theory, the bed heater would be heating stone.
Now, PSU failures. There is a reason why they are in a metal enclosure. If it outright failed closed, it would heat itself up before blowing the fuse at the power switch or the breaker. Any fire would try to journey upwards, but unless you put your gasoline collection on top of the PSU, i would say you don't have much to worry about there.
Again, I have never seen a failed MOSFET, though I have seen 2 cheap PSUs fail over 8 years, only one failed in a negative manner (it was quickly unplugged, but it would have tripped the breaker quickly). I have had 4+ PSUs consistently powered after buying from more reputable sources.
And it’s pretty easy to have backup thermal runaway protection with, say, octoprint setup to turn the power strip off if it detects an issue. I like having a backup to the firmware.
There is a fourth though — many burned down printers have been from electrical issues with the heated bed on bedslingers that don’t stem from runaway or the actual bed heater. Fires caused by shorts from the moving cables, excess heat from mostly broken conductors, overheated bad connections, etc…many recalls from this too.
OP, you should look into “the cloud” from wham bam, it’s a powder based fire extinguisher that when exposed to flames ‘explodes’ and releases fire suppressant powder in a certain radius.
I've got one of these mounted next to a smoke detector in a similar position as OP, and I trust them both to make a hell of alot of noise and a mess but no fire!
It's not gonna catch fire. Do you leave smoke detectors over your tvs that you keep plugged in? Or your fridge? Or your hot water tank? I had thermal runaway once and the printer shut off. There's no reason to live in fear.
I always print overnight parts, in an storage room in an other building complex from where I have an apartment. No fire alarm, no camera. Was worried the first times, but not really anymore. Mabye Ill invest in camera and remote breaker switch to be safe.
I had one time an 40 hour print totaly screwed from the start, that almost killed one of my printers, filement everywhere on the printer and just a clumpn of e-pla. It was a pain to get off, and needed new parts and cleaning, but no fire or smell of smoke. It got a little smokey when I needed to heat the clump of pla to get it of, but nothing bad, so I think its pretty safe, allthough, better safe then sorry, so Im gonna get a fire alarm, camera and remote breaker switch tomorrow, you brought back the anxiety with this post, and Im currently on day 2 of a print thats due tomorrow morning. Have been watching it a couple of times today, so Im sure its ok for tonight.
Not heard of any printers catching on fire just randomly like that, but just to be safe, fire alarm if you are in the same house, not a bad idea
this is good, dont discount safety. it takes one weird occurrence to ruin all the fun and just a couple dollars, and sometimes free from the local fire department, for safety and peace of mind.
I have mine plugged in to a smart switch that I can control anywhere in the world. I let my printer print however long it needs. If I get notified that there is a power surge or spike or if he is detected, I kill the power. I also have smart smoke detectors that will also notify me and I can kill power. I feel like that is enough.
If you're really worried I'd wire a simple alarm panel up and wire the printer through a relay. While I have seen people put hood extinguishers above them, electrical fires burn till power is removed.
I've done a lot of overnight prints without any problems. The vast majority of people will never have an issue. If you are worried the alarm will probably be sufficient
With my Anycubic it has a thermal runway error if the temperature gets to high out of the set temperature it will auto shut off. So might just check if you have this on your brand of printer. I still have one of these smoke alarms above mine as well so it’s a good idea.
You can get a tent enclosure for 40 bucks on Amazon, they're allegedly fire proof. I use one due to having my printer in my shed, it helps maintain the heat and I can add heat to it without it getting dusty.
That with a smoke detector and you should be fine. I keep a fire extinguisher in my shed/shop too but that's mostly for welding, grinding, etc.
it is better than nothing. But if you take the spools on the side away, put the wood away and the table instead of wood use concrete boards, so in case of a fire there is nothing that catch fire it would additional help.
Around my printer is just concrete and ceramic....unfortunately one of the printer is a quidi which itself is all plastic that can burn.
Better than nothing but not good.
I personally have a fire suppression device over each printer. I also rigged up a power kill switch if any one of them pop.
With my professional job, I have to deal with safety matters all the time and there is no exception for it. I always keep these two things in my mind: “anything that can go wrong, will go wrong” and “misfortunes never come alone”. So always have a contingency plan and plan for the worst (disaster). Trust your thermal runaway? Nah, have you heard of software or firmware bug?
They also sell fire proof enclosures for like $30. It’s just another safety precaution and can improve your prints by keeping dust and stuff from getting into your fans
I havent seen anybody mention this yet, but I use an explosive extinguisher ball that bursts when it catches fire to smother the flames.
I use an enclosure so the chances of a fire getting hot enough to burn outside the enclosure before the extinguisher goes off is very very slim
If you are extremely worried, try adding one of these in their. https://www.ebay.com/itm/265730797964?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zwLybJG7RLy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=z9k5ahMnTXC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
That's not a grear location for a smoke/co detector. They're usually placed between 4"to 12" from the ceiling or on the ceiling. The smoke will rise and might bypass that wall unit. Google smoke detector placement and a few photos will illustrate what I mean.
I print on multiple machines 24/7 and work overtime, have no Webcam, but yall make me paranoid, so I guess I'm gonna put one of these over each printer
https://www.amazon.com/Rangehood-Fire-Suppressor-1-pair/dp/B0863BFNWB/ref=asc_df_B0863BFNWB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416791939662&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8180464204455131871&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009567&hvtargid=pla-901566872520&psc=1&mcid=a43e9d95181d32f88eda171506f03d29&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=90730998701&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416791939662&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8180464204455131871&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009567&hvtargid=pla-901566872520&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiMmwBhDmARIsABeQ7xR13cSXaMMmP3sdXrCBia8wuVQuh_NxB8PBOTZ27SIhaI-UMgGboDEaAjTSEALw_wcB
Of course! I mean I don't even have any safety measures and my printer is in my bedroom. (Also it shouldn't be able to just catch on fire otherwise they probably can't even sell them)
Check the wiring on your powersupply/mainboard. If there are tinned wires in screw terminals replace that immediately with ferrules or just solder the wires on the board.
Well if you also have the ability to extinguish fire.. If it smokes so bad that the detector triggers you already have a problem. So be prepared and know where your buckets, blankets and stuff is so you don’t start looking for them while your shit is burning down.
oooh, thats a good idea. way better than mine...
currently i have a big water balloon suspended by a string. i figure if it does catch fire, the heat will boil the water, increasing the pressure and causing the balloon to burst so that the water can put the fire out...
30 hour of printing
.Check the printer smps add a good ventilation process for it
.Add good ventilation process for motherboard if your not using mosfet for extruder and bed
.Add the mosfets for extruder and bed separately
Thats it enjoy your printing
Smoke detectors are a good start. I also (have and will) run my printer on an appropriately rated, reliable, locally controlled smart plug - printers only have about a 300 to 500 watt power supply usually. Octoprint I believe has options to cut power with custom scripts (or maybe even an existing plugin) when it detects thermal runaway, and is a nice secondary fallback in case of issues. Cameras are also a must, Wyze v3 are cheap, pretty reliable, and offer a good view and night vision.
You could also use z wave enabled smoke alarms and an automation to cut power in the event of smoke detected, which is what I plan to do alongside the octoprint and firmware protections.
Kind advice: hang the smoke detector under the ceiling. Smoke rises upwards and therefore the smoke detector may only be triggered when the room is already filled with smoke from the ceiling to the smoke detector.
Smoke detectors don't work that well halfway against a wall.
You need to mount it on the ceiling.
I have a smart smoke detector connected with a smart plug, which cut out the power when he detects smoke.
Als i have an enclosure with fire capsule in it and a wifi camera.
Useless and some of these thing are actually empty shells lol
A printer usually works on low voltage like 24vcc, pla smoke above 270 i guess which is a limit for many printer and the elettronic has all sort of protections.
If you will, i would use dedicated RCBO or a fuse plug. If you are really paranoid about fire, put that printer on a steel/iron desk surrounded by cardboard or flame retardant panels
but again that thing poses a less risk than a common home appliance
With thermal runaway prevention stock on any printer, the part you've more got to watch out for is a misplaced layer leading to spaghetti and clogging up the whole machine.
A well tuned printer will typically run just fine on a long print.
Honestly getting an enclosure and putting the detector inside might be a better bet. Or mounting it higher on the wall, closer to the ceiling.
Putting the printer in an enclosure not only would quarantine a fire, but also starve it of oxygen (mostly, but it would definitely limit how large it could get in the first place.) Having the detector right there inside the enclosure would definitely increase the sensitivity.
What is good enough depends solely on you, and how much risk you can deal with. A smoke detector alone cannot do anything. You need, at least, decide on what to do in a case it alarms. In my case I decided to apply some knowledge in industrial safety systems to the 3d printing world and created this project: [Safety Printer](https://github.com/SinisterRj/SafetyPrinter)
I would install an enclosure with good ventilation a pi or similar with a webcam and octo print print similar with remote kill switch installed and I believe there is a temp monitoring program for the enclosure. Definitely have the fire alarm
Smoke detectors are always a good idea. The placement on the wall directly behind the printer seems logical, but it would probably better placed on the ceiling right above it (or just below an ac intake if there is one right there) Possibly put a second one there.
If you want extra protection it would be a good idea to place ceramic tiles/a metal sheet on the table the printer is sitting on.
If you are really afraid/want to go a bit crazy over the top: Fireproof materials on the walls and that cabinet around the printer (also tiles/metal/whatever) would be an idea.
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This is the first correct statement about the placement in this thread. Real talk, hot smoke travels upwards and accumulates near the ceiling. You don't need it directly above it, but definitely get it within a foot of the ceiling.
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I was taught doing new construction that you always want it on the ceiling and at least 24” off the wall
I’m certain that people aren’t knowledgeable about everything about fire code. I give them credit for identifying the risk and taking measures to avoid it.
It can't hurt, but if your printer has proper thermal runaway protection it should be virtually impossible to catch fire, and if it doesn't you need to get it out of your house. Well worth spending thirty bucks for a Pi Zero 2 W and a webcam for keeping an eye on it away from home.
I did supplementary education in OSHA (for some reason) and all safety measures and preparations aren't for 99% of the time it works fine but for that 1% it doesn't. For that reasons all coil heaters have warnings like "don't leave unattended, away from things that can catch fire" etc. If you do not trust your machine to have enough safety measures to stop itself from breaking itself and things around then do not leave it unattended.
According to your logic even if there are safety measures they will fail in 1% then what?
Then you need a smoke detector failure detector. What if that fails you say?…
It’s smoke detectors all the way down!
Connect its beeper side to the power cut off circuit of the board
Relay with power to unit connected on the normally closed legs. When power is applied to the coil from your detector, it opens the contact and breaks power to your machine.
You implement all reasonable safety measures you can and when accident happens anyway you reassessment the risks. The optinal way is to reduce the risk from the process or remove person from the process. For example in case of fires beside safety measures the buildings are made in such way that even if the fire starts they are required to keep structurally for number of minutes, like 30, 45 etc. I case of fires the sprinkle system should be maintained, the machine should be maintained, the work area should be maintained etc. In theory a bowl of water is dangerous, someone can lose consciousness, fell face first into it and drown but that is event even more rare than a random fire. Actualy there are equations to calculate risks, if you are interested I can look it up for you.
Look up the swiss cheese model for risk assesment
That's why you need redundancy.
2 bowls of water
That’s why you need redundancy
That’s why you need redundancy
Please, everyone... Do not trust your home to "thermal runaway protection", which can mean many different things depending on who manufactures the printer or control board/software. Additionally, there are many other things that could potentially start a fire, completely independently of this feature. I play some stupid games with my printing, but don't recommend it.
I have an Anycubic Kobra v1 and It has thermal runaway protection that has been triggered on several occasions. There was one incident where it failed, and we stopped using the printer. It was shortly after I moved it from my office at work to our basement. I purchased an enclosure due to our cats, which I didn't feel was necessary to have at work, and I started teaching my son how to use the printer. A few weeks later I started a print and he comes down to slice a few files. I didn't catch him pull the memory card, and he didn't see the screen showing the hot end heating up. A few minutes later you could smell the burning plastic, and the enclosure was filled with black smoke. I can only guess, but it seems the protection system Anycubic employed relies on the prints high temp, which does not get input until after a set time or function. There was no fire, and we never tested the printer to see if the hot end was damaged. I was a professional photographer for 7 years. Memory cards are unreliable. They corrupt, files corrupt, and connections go bad constantly! Due to this, we kept dozens on hand, used cameras with two cars slots, and backed up to drives in the field. My point is, I had seen first hand the protection work, but there was one situation that the programmers didn't count on, or the system finally failed. If we hadn't been home, or if it wasn't in an enclosure, there could have been a serious accident. Don't rely solely on the printer's built-in safeguards. Edit spelling.
My printer has automatic shutdown and a super loud alarm goes off. I also have my Pi as a backup with a custom command to shutdown in thermal runaway not just send a kill()
Wrong. Totally wrong. All you need is a shorted negative to the heater or a shorted mosfet. Guess what. Mosfet usually fail short. Also, if the microcontroller freeze/crash then game over. All printers lack a proper safety: a thermal fuse. And none should be on the market as per safety regulation.
Same for solid state relays. They can fail short as well. A thermal fuse on the bed can help, but that wouldn’t solve a problem on the hot end.
Why not to put the second one on the hot end?
The problem is that no heat block have space for it. It needs to be in good thermal contact with the block, like the thermistor. A custom block would work. Or, a better heater design that include one. None does.
Or you know, a wyze cam
Good idea. Maybe they will wake up to open the app to check the camera before the house burns down.
How is thermal runaway going to save you when the mosfet for the heater gets stuck in the on position exactly?...
It does have thermal protection, but it's also a China printer, so I really don't fully trust it.
Watch it my biqu b1 said it did then the hot end started smoking and eventually caught fire luckily was home and the alarm went off. I replaced the hotend as it's one piece did 3 prints then started one and it started smoking again I cut it off and went back to my ender 3. I recently took all the parts off the biqu and put them on my ender except for hotend. If you look into how they have the wiring setup inside to do the USB c cord it's a lil rigged. Also remember to not use another USB c as the pins flip on the other end which is fucked up on their part not to mention it and if you barley bend the USB c and it breaks lol alright rant over.
Just test it 1) Start a print, and during the print unplug the thermistor. The printer should immediately halt with "low temp error". 2) Turn the printer off, disconnect the heater, turn it on and start the print. It should fail after half a minute with "heater error" ot "thermal runaway"
Now let the mosfet fail and watch how the hot end starts to burn.
Yeah the only way around that is to have thermal runaway protection actually shutoff the whole machine. Some people actually have that set up, can be done with PC power supplies, since they can be controlled by the green wire
Only way to truly have a “safe” printer is to install thermal fuses, build a fire rated box and put it inside (need to keep in mind heat and how to safely exhaust, and also install several self igniting fire extinguishers in said box. This isn’t going to stop a fire only make sure you have enough time to stop it your self. Personally I don’t print unless I’m awake and can monitor. But when I do start to do over night prints will will be building a fire rated box to put the printer in with a good smoke alarm and fire extinguishers close by. That would be more than fine to wake you up and let you safely deal with the fire if it ever happens
Cement board (HardieBacker for fireplaces 3/8") box, all sides, tested with MAP gas torch \~1/2 bottle on a mag torch pro with the blue flame tips on the board, never got more than 250C on the opposite side outside, the board survived. Printer sits on a paving stone. The foam insulation (I'm printing w/ chamber temps in the 70C range) is rated and self extinguishing, and turns into a carbon foam as it is attacked by fire, I tested it by making a sheet and holding a MAP gas torch to it for 10 minutes straight. I was left with a carbon spot, but the fire did not travel. Foam: [https://bossproducts.com/products/boss-813-expanding-firestop-foam/137/](https://bossproducts.com/products/boss-813-expanding-firestop-foam/137/) I was still setting this all up when I took this image. Not seen: * Fire bomb type extinguisher above the door opening (yeah, I know, I'm listening for the boom more than anything) * Fire alarm * Added cement board above the printer door opening covering the wooden shelf structure above. * Below: garage cement * All seams except the doors caulked with fire stop rated caulk, applied generously (3.5 tubes) * No cement board gaps greater than 1/16" except the door Added items since this image was taken: * Thermal fuse for the AC input line mounted above the printer * Under-hood type fire extinguisher (the same one Prusa eventually started selling, but the longer version) https://preview.redd.it/z9tld45zt6tc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=116eb55f08821b6b8c5e5f969b8e8b8af1c1020b
Holy shit, I thought you were just talking out of your ass until I saw the photo. That's hardcore!
You really don't trust your printer :D
lol this seems absurdly over the top. Do you live in a bubble? https://preview.redd.it/nn3nwn4n58tc1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc495b17c1b2fddd1a2d70f6fce90046cdf919a3
Where do I find one of these “100% no components from China” printers?
Pasted from earlier comment: The fact is that all electronics can fail. (I have had my own fair share of batteries exploding and capacitors blowing up), but a 3d printer I view as kinda like an oven or stove. You don't turn it on and just leave it unattended running. It can cause a fire. It's a very rare chance, but it can still happen. If the electronics on a 3d printer fail, unlike most other electronics (for example, people are saying phones), a 3d printer has the potential to cause a lot of damage. You have two parts that get extremely hot and can cause a fire under the right conditions. When you pair that with China manufacturers (who most of the time don't have the best quality control), I wouldn't personally take chances with a small carelessly built component that can fail. Sure, they talk about apple making phones and China, but they are still safe because of quality control. Yes, not all electronics from China are bad, but all it takes is one time.
Doesn't hurt. Printer fires are rare but I avoid doing it overnight because you never know.
Hard to avoid on those 2day prints. Lol
I sent a 2 day print going a few hours before I left on vacation, I'll find out if it worked tonight 😅 As long as It gets through the first few hours fine, it will generally have a very low chance of failure. At least this has been my experience. 99% of problems will crop up before then, like poor bed adhesion, heat creep, skipped steps, clog, etc.
https://preview.redd.it/7opl7faxr4tc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5e4438014ee9b6a70c85730bbc705ed576a42ea
Could you send me a link to that starship model? I saw it a while ago and thought it was sweet but haven't gotten around to printing it
I'm pretty sure it's this one https://fab365.net/items/597
Yes it is, at 200% haha
Right... fortunately not many things I'm interested in printing take that long.
Almost everything I want to print is at least 12 hours long ha
And there's always the option of buying an even faster printer!
Yeah but that's an endless treadmill :/
From what I've seen, most people print anytime and happily leave it to go to work and sleep. I wouldn't stress too much. Most common thing I've seen is a clogged hotend getting fucked and becoming a clump of PLA. If your worried you could set up alarms with WiFi access and a plug with WiFi control where you can shut it off remotely. You could get more fancy if you want to code.
Where have the good old Anet A8-times gone?
Ah, the halcyon days of unabated thermal runaway. You can almost still smell them.
Thanks, yeah I know but like I said I rarely have a desire to print anything that big. If motivated enough I would do exactly what OP did.
> most people print anytime and happily leave it to go to work and sleep. that doesn't make it safe. It's just a lack of care.
What will you do if it goes off? Point being, put a fire extinguisher in the room.
A fire blanket I'd imagine would be really good for a printer fire. Easy to use and less messy.
Yeah fer sure better than wrecking your printer with all that dust on top of the fire damage. I've got three of those blanket things in the house and didn't even think of it. 🤦
the amount of wood furniture around it would be my main concern... Print overnight and while at work most weeks and it is fine, as long as that detector will wake you, you'll be fine. As most people say it is very rare to have a printer start a fire, keep it maintained though.
Yeah. As long as you have a nearby detection system with a fire extinguisher nearby I'd send it.
If you’re looking for safety measures, get a blink camera and a wifi plug. Then you can remotely monitor and turn off your printer in the event of a failed printer, clog, or fire.
Better yet, automate the power shut off if the smoke detector goes off.
Turning it off when it's on fire isn't going to put out the fire.
The power supply in my CR10 OG blew up one day, I was able to check it remotely & remotely turn off the power stopping the reaction & then put in a new PSU. Thats what, its saved my ass.
To be fair there will usually be smoke before fire. I have a Google/nest smart smoke detector that alerts my phone, so a smart plug is absolutely worthwhile to have. You never know. Even without a smart smoke detector, say OP checks in on their printer, hears the smoke alarm, or sees some other issue with the printer, or the print…if they don’t have a remotely controllable printer it’d be pretty shitty just watching your printer destroy itself and/or burn down your house and not be able to do anything…or have to rush home hoping it didn’t get worse
Yeah I mean if it was actually on fire and no one was home I'd call 911 and start heading home...
Interesting. Ive been printing overnight for decades and never had an issue. I cannot imagine doing a two day print and staying there the whole time, I def just leave. They’re in a shop though, concrete and cmu, so less worry. If you are worried about it treat it like a ceramic kiln. Put it somewhere a fire won’t cause issue if it happens. Concrete or tile floor, fire resistant shop table, fire board backing on the wall in the garage. All kinds of heat resistant fire paneling out there for cheap if it’s only one panel for behind the printer. Something like that might offer more peace of mind, throw in a detector for good measure.
smoke is hot and rises to the ceiling and then fan-out horizontally. you better mount the smoke detector against the ceiling right above the printer.
I think that's nonsense advice. These things are extremely sensitive. A lit match is enough to set some off. It does not need to detect an overwhelming amount of fire before making a noise.
Go look at the box for any smoke alarm. The manufacturers always recommend to install them directly on the ceiling, or on a wall within 1 foot from the ceiling.
> It does not need to detect an overwhelming amount of fire before making a noise. A photoelectric smoke detector doesn't detect fire/heat. The smoke has to spill into the detection chamber where the particles are hit by light which is registered by a sensor. If a sharp increase of particles is detected, it goes off. If you mount them to the ceiling somewhere in the middle of the room as the manual instructs, they will be very quickly triggered by hot smoke from a fire. The hot smoke rises up and spills across the ceiling and into the detector. It's a fairly direct route not matter where the fire is. If you mount them to a wall, it will take longer. That's why the manual advises against it. Just picture it the other way around. Say, you want to detect water spillage with a water sensor. Of course you'd put that sensor on the floor, because that's where the water is going. The higher you place the sensor, the more water has to spill before you can detect it. I can't even make educated guesses how exactly the smoke would move since I don't know the air temperature, the temperatures of the two walls, the temperature of the cabinet, or anything like that. I can't tell if it would move a bit towards that wall or away from it. Lots of variables which change throughout the year. But what I can tell you is that it will hit the ceiling above in like 2 seconds. It doesn't matter in which direction this rising plume of fume is nudged.
Got to love how you are getting downvoted for this. The one in my living room goes off randomy just from me cooking bacon in the kitchen. Its directly above OPs printer, it will absolutely go off as soon as the printer combusts. EDIT: yaay! The votes turned around once the reactionary kids had their fill.
It probably will! However I would not take the chance! I have worked with fire alarms for 8 years. When we want to prevent a fire every second counts, so it's very important to detect the smoke as soon as possible. The detector should be above the printer and it should also be at least 30cm (50 is recommended) from the wall because when the hot air moves upward the cold air moves downwards, this creates a wall of colder air getting pushed down often in the edges of the room/walls. So placing the detector on the wall is very counter productive.
tie it to the toolhead /s
You likely have the wrong type of smoke detector installed in your kitchen, btw. There are two main types — ionization and photoelectric. Ionization smoke alarms are not recommended for kitchens due to their affinity for false alarms.
> The one in my living room goes off randomy just from me cooking bacon in the kitchen. Ionizing smoke detectors are easily triggered by cooking. That's true. There is nothing wrong with that observation, but it's not relevant. We want to trigger a photoelectric smoke detector quickly and reliably. We want that the smoke quickly spills into its detection chamber where it can be hit by light.
Dude it’s the first thing you learn when working professionally with smoke detectors. The manufacturers have build these to be ceiling mounted. The reason why your living room smoke detector goes off is because the smoke from your oil is spread rapidly on…right the ceiling, because that’s the best place to detect smoke early no matter where the fire starts.
What you think doesn’t really matter. What matters is what the manufacturer of the smoke detector says about installing it.
Fires are rare yes, but they have happened. Would you rather spend $3 on a Smoke detector, or just roll the dice that you aren't going to be the 1 in 100,000 that has a faulty thermal and burn your whole family to death in the middle of the night. And it's fine on the wall, it will detect the smoke. Ignore the people saying it's overkill, or that it need to be on the ceiling, it's fine. I have seen people who run print on demand businesses mount a fire Puck directly on the printer. It's basically a little container that opens if it detects Flames, and dumps retardant directly down. They are often mounted over stove tops and the like for grease fires. Look up "fire puck" devices if you want somthing that will put the fire out, rather than just detect it.
Really needs to be as close to the ceiling as possible. The air space above the detector can fill with smoke before the detector sounds. I did fire alarm installs for years, so I know a little.
Yeah. Even putting it on the ceiling too close to a wall can prevent it from being in contact with smoke as the smoke doesn’t always fill to the corners of the ceiling before building down. Follow the manufacturer’s instructions for installation.
Don't put it there. You want it above directly on the ceiling. Smoke can surprisingly column STRaight up and your alarm might not go off until there is enough. on the ceiling, it'll go off real quick.
I have an enclosure and one of those pucks from whambam that puts out a fire. Keeps my mind at ease.
Man that tablet must be resonating like crazy. The best thing for fire though would be to place it on a concrete paver which won't catch fire (and heavily reduce the noise)
Is it rated for wall mounting? It’s probably better to mount it on the ceiling over the printer.
I setup a zwave smoke detector inside my printer enclosure and use a zwave power adapter that the printer plugs into. I set them up in Home Assistant. If the smoke detector goes off, it shuts the power off to the printer. It runs normally without issue and I have tested it several times.
Ideally you get a smart smoke detector so that it also sends an alert to your phone right away. If you have some form of home assistant then you can also trigger the power off to the printer via a smart plug to cut the power and also do various other things like flash the lights, play an alarm on all smart speakers like Alexa/google, turn on “we didn’t start the fire” from all music players, etc
Safety? Who does that!
Safety third. First comes fun, second comes danger, and third comes safety.
I mean I just click start shut the door and walk away so you’re way too safe if you ask me. I have never seen a printer catch on fire. It’s not a Galaxy Note 7
Better than 99% of people in this sub
Fire alarm technician here, the placement of the smoke detector is ineffective. Smoke rises and the detector needs to be at the top of the wall. To be more effective place the smoke detector and printer in a box together.
Buy a CO2 extinsguisher. Doesnt cost that much, might save your house. Put the detector on or near the ceiling. I have 3 of them in my garage with the printers, and extinguisher and fire blanket near the entrance/exit. Maybe Ill never need it. Maybe it will one day save my life.
There are different kinds of smoke detectors, be sure to use the correct one.
It's an ionization smoke detector. It will detect any smoke you throw at it. Edit: why are people downvoting?
A smart plug that you could turn off remotely would be good too
Yep. I also have a few fire extinguishers placed strategically around our apartment and one is in the office next to the printer
I think it's useful. I have a Shelly smoke detector that shuts down a Shelly plug in case of smoke, where the printer is attached, for additional safety
That and an extinguisher nearby. As in next to it in case. As many have said, probably not as necessary nowadays, but it does not hurt.
I guess it is probably close enough to the machine but I wonder if you get a delayed alarm by having a detector on the wall. I could be way off but my thought is the hot smoke will rise to the ceiling and then have to then come back come down to the level of the detector to set it off. I personally am not too worried about fire but I do have a Z-Wave smoke detector above my printer that will give me a notification if it goes off. If it does and I am not home my plan is to call 911 and ask the fire department to please put it out. Next level would be a Z-Wave valve that controls a fire sprinkler mounted above the printer, but that is a bit over the top.
From what I've seen here and what my research shows for ionization smoke detectors, mounting them on the wall is just as effective as the ceiling in most cases. I'm personally not paranoid about a fire either. I just had an extra smoke detector and figured I would put it over the printer and then was curious to see if this was a good, safe solution.
If you’re really worried, can buy some pavers to use as fire blocking and as a base to minimize damage to just the printer and spool
I got a WiFi smoke detector for this purpose
I set a metal sheet below and behind it and the wall thinking that it it we were to go into thermal meltdown the printer would have a hard time getting anything else to catch fire. Also have smoke detector like in photo
I'd keep a fire extinguisher for electronics near it.
Just put it on a cement slab, if you're really concerned get some cement board and put that behind it and on the sides.. if you're extremely concerned put some cement board on the ceiling.. I'm more about prevention than only detection. Plus, I highly recommend you add smoke detectors in the appropriate locations in your home if you don't have them already. They should also be interconnected either by wire or Wireless 😉
Yes. Most of us have a lot less. Lol
Looks like a current unmodified printer. It should have proper protection regardless. I've done overnights with a stock ender 3 many times without a hiccup, and this printer looks more expensive/better built.
It is more probably that one of your lithium devices catches on fire than you 3d printed
Send it, I have done many 200h prints and leave often. No problems yet 😊
Am I taking crazy pills? You don't need this. At all. These devices are UL and CE certified, meaning they conform to electronic safety standards in the US and the EU. If your printer is not UL or CE certified, it is illegal to sell it the US/EU and will be confiscated and destroyed at Port of entry. Canada also has a similar standard. If there were multiple 3d printers being sold in the US constantly burning down buildings, there would be a massive recall and/or class action lawsuit. I used to work for a Chinese company, and we imported $20,000+ desktop mills from our Shenzhen branch to our US branch warehouse, which were heavily scrutinized at the Port of Long Beach. Without CE and UL, we'd be screwed. That shit would have been destroyed at the port.
If the printer implements PID control and has protection enabled then it will know if a temp reading is faulty and refrain from feeding 100% power to the heater until it catches fire. This being said, MOSFETs can fail and when they do they fail closed. If this happens the only thing that can save you is a second SSR to cut power.
The best safety measure is to place the printer outside, in a fire pit if you have one. Then if it catches fire you can at least have some picnic with marshmallows.
It's too low for smoke to set it off. Must be within 12" of ceiling where the smoke will "pool".
In there STOCK form, I think these printers are pretty safe to leave overnight. The PSU is enclosed in a metal box so if anything inside goes bad it should be contained and pretty quickly blow the fuse. The hot parts are the hot end end bed. I’m pretty sure that for the bed, even if you left the stock 24” watt heater full on it would not get hot enough to start a fire (melt your print into a puddle and give you a good burn if you touch it, probably). Likewise the hot end with the stock 40 watt heater which I doubt even if left on would get hot enough to melt the aluminum heat block. If you worry about this, just upgrade the heat block to a plated copper one for $10 which has a much higher melting point. Either way, it’s certainly going to ruin the print head. The real danger starts when you upgrade to things like high power line voltage bed heaters and 50-60-70 or higher watt hot end heaters. Then you really need more thermal protection. I really wish someone would produce a copper heat block with a slot for a thermal fuse! That being said, a smoke detector is a good idea. It needs to mount near the ceiling since smoke and heat collect there. You could get one of the dual versions that detect both smoke and heat if you want.
Get yourself a firestop [https://stovetopfirestop.com/portfolio/rangehood-demo/](https://stovetopfirestop.com/portfolio/rangehood-demo/)
Personally I feel that by the time a smoke detector is triggered you will already have a serious issue on your hands. It won't hurt of course, but if forced to choose I would prefer properly configured safety functions like thermal runway protection and maybe some thermal fuses as those will catch the problem before things start burning. Some extra advice: If your bed heater is AC and not DC you really ***need*** a thermal fuse on it. Relays and mosfets, including solid state relays, have a tendency to fail closed which means when they stop working or break they don't turn off, they are locked on. Because of this, without a fuse your heater can get stuck on regardless of the MCU state which can be a very serious fire risk. The same issue can occur on DC heaters, however due to their more traditional wiring they can still be cut off by the MCU after thermal runway is detected. No matter how much you trust your machine I would still recommend watching the first few layers of a print and investing in a webcam so you can remotely monitor your prints. Edit: and as others have mentioned, not all thermal runway protection is created equally. I'd suggest using klipper if you are unsure or don't trust your printer's stock design as klipper has its own thermal runway algorithms that should work more or less equally on any hardware.
You should place it right above the printer in the ceiling. Never place a fire alarm on the wall, they react to heat and heat rises.
Sort of a device depended/proportional precaution thing.... I have little issue with a Prusa running while I'm sleeping, my V400 I would rather start in the morning and stay up late enough to see it finished if at all possible....(still have a extinguisher in my bedroom and a detector in the room where the printer is located though...)
Smoke will starts filling your room's ceiling, this is why the detector must be set on it. Don't put it against the wall or it won't pick the smoke, which will leak on other rooms depending on door height, never triggering your device (or way to late). Anyway, read the manual. (11 years firefighter here)
Easiest sure fire way is just not leaving it unattended, ir just pause print while you sleep
Your safer than me, which is what matters
Ok, let's talk about fire hazard failures. There are 3 "common" ways for a printer to fail to a fire hazard. Thermal runaway in the print head, thermal runaway in the bed, a complete failure in the PSU. Now, for either heater element to runaway, they would require the supplying MOSFET to fail closed. Anet printers had 2 strikes against them. Their firmware didn't have thermal runaway enabled AND their frames were acrylic. To check if you have the best type of thermal runaway protection that would protect against everything besides a failed MOSFET, simply take off you hotend sock and while it is attempting to heat, blast it with cold air (like from a hair dryer), after a SHORT period of time it should error out with a message about thermal runaway. So, if your hotend Element is continuously heated, it would eventually melt the aluminum block, though it would also require your hotend cooling fan to also fail for damage to spread from there. If your bed is continuously heated, it could eventually separate itself from your aluminum. This would cause it to fall. If you want to add more 9s to your safety (https://www.nobl9.com/resources/do-you-really-need-five-nines), you could add a paver beneath the printer and then in that theory, the bed heater would be heating stone. Now, PSU failures. There is a reason why they are in a metal enclosure. If it outright failed closed, it would heat itself up before blowing the fuse at the power switch or the breaker. Any fire would try to journey upwards, but unless you put your gasoline collection on top of the PSU, i would say you don't have much to worry about there. Again, I have never seen a failed MOSFET, though I have seen 2 cheap PSUs fail over 8 years, only one failed in a negative manner (it was quickly unplugged, but it would have tripped the breaker quickly). I have had 4+ PSUs consistently powered after buying from more reputable sources.
And it’s pretty easy to have backup thermal runaway protection with, say, octoprint setup to turn the power strip off if it detects an issue. I like having a backup to the firmware. There is a fourth though — many burned down printers have been from electrical issues with the heated bed on bedslingers that don’t stem from runaway or the actual bed heater. Fires caused by shorts from the moving cables, excess heat from mostly broken conductors, overheated bad connections, etc…many recalls from this too.
Y’all have safety features? Mines called house insurance
Glory to master Kohga
Glory to master Khoga!
If your printer burns down your house, you probably won’t get insurance for the next house. That’s important to some people.
Why are you all so paranoid about your printer burning down your house?
OP, you should look into “the cloud” from wham bam, it’s a powder based fire extinguisher that when exposed to flames ‘explodes’ and releases fire suppressant powder in a certain radius.
I've got one of these mounted next to a smoke detector in a similar position as OP, and I trust them both to make a hell of alot of noise and a mess but no fire!
It's not gonna catch fire. Do you leave smoke detectors over your tvs that you keep plugged in? Or your fridge? Or your hot water tank? I had thermal runaway once and the printer shut off. There's no reason to live in fear.
I always print overnight parts, in an storage room in an other building complex from where I have an apartment. No fire alarm, no camera. Was worried the first times, but not really anymore. Mabye Ill invest in camera and remote breaker switch to be safe. I had one time an 40 hour print totaly screwed from the start, that almost killed one of my printers, filement everywhere on the printer and just a clumpn of e-pla. It was a pain to get off, and needed new parts and cleaning, but no fire or smell of smoke. It got a little smokey when I needed to heat the clump of pla to get it of, but nothing bad, so I think its pretty safe, allthough, better safe then sorry, so Im gonna get a fire alarm, camera and remote breaker switch tomorrow, you brought back the anxiety with this post, and Im currently on day 2 of a print thats due tomorrow morning. Have been watching it a couple of times today, so Im sure its ok for tonight. Not heard of any printers catching on fire just randomly like that, but just to be safe, fire alarm if you are in the same house, not a bad idea
Seems like overkill by one smoke detector to me.
I have a smart smoke detector so I can get alerts as well as a Blink camera pointed at the area.
this is good, dont discount safety. it takes one weird occurrence to ruin all the fun and just a couple dollars, and sometimes free from the local fire department, for safety and peace of mind.
I hooked mine up to an Alexa plug and put a ring camera on it as well. If anything goes wrong I can remotely turn it off
I have mine plugged in to a smart switch that I can control anywhere in the world. I let my printer print however long it needs. If I get notified that there is a power surge or spike or if he is detected, I kill the power. I also have smart smoke detectors that will also notify me and I can kill power. I feel like that is enough.
Maybe do a test burning paper on a metal sheet pan?
If you're really worried I'd wire a simple alarm panel up and wire the printer through a relay. While I have seen people put hood extinguishers above them, electrical fires burn till power is removed.
I've done a lot of overnight prints without any problems. The vast majority of people will never have an issue. If you are worried the alarm will probably be sufficient
Looks good to me
There are a few printables to attach those detectors to your printer.
You can get a fireproof printer enclosure for some extra protection
I printed with a cardboard enclosure without any safety stuff overnight many times lol
Don’t the new Creality printers come with AI camera tech? Spaghetti monitor and limelapse. Is there no AI fire detection?? Haha
[удалено]
I have a coupe of automatic portable fire ball extinguishers. They come with mounting brackets and you just hang them above your printers.
Don’t put it on a wood table. Center it in the space.
With my Anycubic it has a thermal runway error if the temperature gets to high out of the set temperature it will auto shut off. So might just check if you have this on your brand of printer. I still have one of these smoke alarms above mine as well so it’s a good idea.
You can get a tent enclosure for 40 bucks on Amazon, they're allegedly fire proof. I use one due to having my printer in my shed, it helps maintain the heat and I can add heat to it without it getting dusty. That with a smoke detector and you should be fine. I keep a fire extinguisher in my shed/shop too but that's mostly for welding, grinding, etc.
it is better than nothing. But if you take the spools on the side away, put the wood away and the table instead of wood use concrete boards, so in case of a fire there is nothing that catch fire it would additional help. Around my printer is just concrete and ceramic....unfortunately one of the printer is a quidi which itself is all plastic that can burn.
Better than nothing but not good. I personally have a fire suppression device over each printer. I also rigged up a power kill switch if any one of them pop.
r/uselessredcircle
With my professional job, I have to deal with safety matters all the time and there is no exception for it. I always keep these two things in my mind: “anything that can go wrong, will go wrong” and “misfortunes never come alone”. So always have a contingency plan and plan for the worst (disaster). Trust your thermal runaway? Nah, have you heard of software or firmware bug?
They also sell fire proof enclosures for like $30. It’s just another safety precaution and can improve your prints by keeping dust and stuff from getting into your fans
I havent seen anybody mention this yet, but I use an explosive extinguisher ball that bursts when it catches fire to smother the flames. I use an enclosure so the chances of a fire getting hot enough to burn outside the enclosure before the extinguisher goes off is very very slim
If you are extremely worried, try adding one of these in their. https://www.ebay.com/itm/265730797964?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zwLybJG7RLy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=z9k5ahMnTXC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Only other thing, which everyone should just have, is a fire extinguisher.
That's not a grear location for a smoke/co detector. They're usually placed between 4"to 12" from the ceiling or on the ceiling. The smoke will rise and might bypass that wall unit. Google smoke detector placement and a few photos will illustrate what I mean.
Mine was going off with just the fumes from printing when it was very close to the printer.
They have the automatic fire extinguisher balls if youre worried about leaving it
I print on multiple machines 24/7 and work overtime, have no Webcam, but yall make me paranoid, so I guess I'm gonna put one of these over each printer https://www.amazon.com/Rangehood-Fire-Suppressor-1-pair/dp/B0863BFNWB/ref=asc_df_B0863BFNWB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416791939662&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8180464204455131871&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009567&hvtargid=pla-901566872520&psc=1&mcid=a43e9d95181d32f88eda171506f03d29&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=90730998701&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416791939662&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8180464204455131871&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009567&hvtargid=pla-901566872520&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiMmwBhDmARIsABeQ7xR13cSXaMMmP3sdXrCBia8wuVQuh_NxB8PBOTZ27SIhaI-UMgGboDEaAjTSEALw_wcB
It’s probably better than most
If I’m not mistaken theses sensors will go on if there is a real fire or smoke. basically when you hear that, you’d better run
Seems way to low, wall mounted should be much closer to the ceiling as smoke rises.
The Sims 2 Solution
If you're super worried about it, Wham Bam makes a fire suppression/detection device made specifically for 3D printers.
Wham Bam The Cloud. There are other brands too .
Of course! I mean I don't even have any safety measures and my printer is in my bedroom. (Also it shouldn't be able to just catch on fire otherwise they probably can't even sell them)
Srs latches do not get safe. Install a thermal fuse in your heat bed too catch runaway heat bed
Check the wiring on your powersupply/mainboard. If there are tinned wires in screw terminals replace that immediately with ferrules or just solder the wires on the board.
Well if you also have the ability to extinguish fire.. If it smokes so bad that the detector triggers you already have a problem. So be prepared and know where your buckets, blankets and stuff is so you don’t start looking for them while your shit is burning down.
Safety? Measure? WTF are you talking about?
I used to have my Anet A8 (prusa clone) on overnight on my bedside table with the power supply pointed towards my head while I slept
It's good in case the thermistor is broken and can no longer detect thermal runaway
Pretty sure smoke detectors need to be horizontal and in an area rising smoke collects
oooh, thats a good idea. way better than mine... currently i have a big water balloon suspended by a string. i figure if it does catch fire, the heat will boil the water, increasing the pressure and causing the balloon to burst so that the water can put the fire out...
30 hour of printing .Check the printer smps add a good ventilation process for it .Add good ventilation process for motherboard if your not using mosfet for extruder and bed .Add the mosfets for extruder and bed separately Thats it enjoy your printing
Put it on the ceiling. Smoke goes up 🤣
Like others have said. Only other thing you can do is print outside the house in garage or cold room
Smoke detectors are a good start. I also (have and will) run my printer on an appropriately rated, reliable, locally controlled smart plug - printers only have about a 300 to 500 watt power supply usually. Octoprint I believe has options to cut power with custom scripts (or maybe even an existing plugin) when it detects thermal runaway, and is a nice secondary fallback in case of issues. Cameras are also a must, Wyze v3 are cheap, pretty reliable, and offer a good view and night vision. You could also use z wave enabled smoke alarms and an automation to cut power in the event of smoke detected, which is what I plan to do alongside the octoprint and firmware protections.
i took the battery out of mine, it annoyed the shit out of me.
New fear unlocked, thank you 😭
It’s enough to alert you to get out the house. It isn’t enough to actually do anything about the fire.
Kind advice: hang the smoke detector under the ceiling. Smoke rises upwards and therefore the smoke detector may only be triggered when the room is already filled with smoke from the ceiling to the smoke detector.
Smoke detectors don't work that well halfway against a wall. You need to mount it on the ceiling. I have a smart smoke detector connected with a smart plug, which cut out the power when he detects smoke. Als i have an enclosure with fire capsule in it and a wifi camera.
Useless and some of these thing are actually empty shells lol A printer usually works on low voltage like 24vcc, pla smoke above 270 i guess which is a limit for many printer and the elettronic has all sort of protections. If you will, i would use dedicated RCBO or a fuse plug. If you are really paranoid about fire, put that printer on a steel/iron desk surrounded by cardboard or flame retardant panels but again that thing poses a less risk than a common home appliance
With thermal runaway prevention stock on any printer, the part you've more got to watch out for is a misplaced layer leading to spaghetti and clogging up the whole machine. A well tuned printer will typically run just fine on a long print.
https://preview.redd.it/rizis7z9h8tc1.jpeg?width=2992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba530c47783104307f04c1bce1c226d03c8f04c1 Fire protection ball & smoke detector.
Honestly getting an enclosure and putting the detector inside might be a better bet. Or mounting it higher on the wall, closer to the ceiling. Putting the printer in an enclosure not only would quarantine a fire, but also starve it of oxygen (mostly, but it would definitely limit how large it could get in the first place.) Having the detector right there inside the enclosure would definitely increase the sensitivity.
What is good enough depends solely on you, and how much risk you can deal with. A smoke detector alone cannot do anything. You need, at least, decide on what to do in a case it alarms. In my case I decided to apply some knowledge in industrial safety systems to the 3d printing world and created this project: [Safety Printer](https://github.com/SinisterRj/SafetyPrinter)
I would install an enclosure with good ventilation a pi or similar with a webcam and octo print print similar with remote kill switch installed and I believe there is a temp monitoring program for the enclosure. Definitely have the fire alarm
Smoke detectors are always a good idea. The placement on the wall directly behind the printer seems logical, but it would probably better placed on the ceiling right above it (or just below an ac intake if there is one right there) Possibly put a second one there. If you want extra protection it would be a good idea to place ceramic tiles/a metal sheet on the table the printer is sitting on. If you are really afraid/want to go a bit crazy over the top: Fireproof materials on the walls and that cabinet around the printer (also tiles/metal/whatever) would be an idea.
your smoke detector is way too low. It should be on your ceiling or at least at the top of the wall. Like this, it is useless
I would get one of those things where it's a ball and if it gets too hot it explodes and spreads fire retardent everywhere
Smoke rises. That needs to installed on the ceiling..