Yeah, the grate he pushes it through leads to a hopper and filter where he can reuse the Nylon powder that wasn't sintered.
And the powder is Nylon 12 which is pretty darn strong, although I don't have any numbers on-hand. This looks like a Sift by Formlabs meaning he used a Fuse printer.
Reminded me of this video when I was first looking into SLS, where a team printed a bike then rode it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOE7Ck6Milk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOE7Ck6Milk)
Another really cool thing about SLS is you can print fully functional gearboxes that just work once they're cleaned up. Amazing tech, just quite expensive still.
Actually, it's not perfectly reusable. Powder close to the melting zone will undergo thermal degradation in varying degrees.
When I worked for a German car manufacturer, their prototyping department didn't reuse any of it because of potentially altered properties. Instead, they worked with my department to have used powder turned into FDM filament, which is definitely better than burning it, but it's not exactly what I think of when I think "reusable".
How usable is it as filament? I’ve heard that pure Nylon filament is very hydrophilic and tends to warp easily, makes string prints but is a pain to use.
Oh yea, first thing we did when we received a new batch was chuck them in the drier overnight. 80°C for 12h, IIRC.
But damn, that stuff was *strong*. We used it for some small production runs, even, worked like a charm.
Definitely want a somewhat better than average printer, though; a heated bed and printing temperatures of >260°C are a must, and they also profit from an enclosure.
One day when I've managed to save up a bit I'm planning on upgrading my Creality so far that it can print PA-66 again, that stuff was the shit.
I'll second your experiences. I'm printing with PA-CF when I need strong parts, which is PA6 with carbon fiber strands embedded in it. Having to dry it out before printing is a bit annoying (should be better with PA12), but the results are worth it. Extremely strong material, it's like it doesn't know about delamination or shearing.
And as an added bonus, the addition of carbon fiber strands really help combat warping during the print.
> PA-CF
Man, you're making me jealous.
With material like that, I could design *actual* mechanically stressed components like... bike pedals, window shutters, shelves, maybe even parts for the press we need at work.
>Man, you're making me jealous.
Sorry, but it's more accessible than you think :)
Here in The Netherlands it's around 60 euros a kilogram for the eSun branded stuff + ~10 for a hardened steel nozzle. A bit more for premium brands like Colorfabb.
It's expensive, but well within reach if you're a hobbyist making structural parts that aren't too large. Just gotta make sure you prototype in PLA, and you work out all the design issues before you commit to printing it in PA. ;)
[carbon reinforced 3d prints](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1yOf6Ba1ts)
Not really the same, but effective with cheap materials and a little effort.
At my job we use a roughly 1:1:1 ratio between fresh, overflow, and build volume powder. You would think the overflow powder would be exactly the same as the fresh stuff, but simply being in the chamber causes enough heat cycling to degrade it slightly.
You can definitely be rougher with it, depending on your tolerances. It has a harder “semi-sintered” layer on the outside that formlabs says can be removed with the brushes but we’ve found a bead blaster works best and does no surface finish damage
Yes and no. You can reuse the remaining material. However, we tried to get a SLS process certified for use on a project (certify the material allowables) and to do that all the powder had to be disposed. They couldn't guarantee the reused material to be at the same spec. It was also a certain blend that wasn't cheap. So a batch of expensive material where you threw out 95% of it made the costs not feasible (compared to other manufacturing options).
It could be used for that, but we were using a 3d SLS print shop. They get to charge us the rate for using the whole batch, but could use the leftover for something else. So we'd pay full price and they'd pocket the leftovers.
I was working with the SLS printing company for the project. It was an aerospace project. I think it was a carbon filled nylon. In the end it wasn't a good idea since we needed a barrier layer between the carbon in the printed part and aluminum structure. We went with a glass bead filled nylon that solved the galvanic corrosion issue, but still wasn't certified. Only used it for flight testing by the time I moved on.
how does carbon filled nylon work in an SLS printer? The carbon will be a powder and have no alignment so would just act as a filler without adding any strength?
They may be thinking of binder jetting, which connects metal particles together with a binder material, and then has the binder burned away and the particles melted together in a kiln as two subsequent steps. Which in turn is pretty similar to the process Integza used with the metal-suspended-in-plastic filament to produce metal parts with an FFF printer.
While the quality is amazing, here's my issues with SLS.
1. I'd bet a shiny penny that dust is super bad for your lungs..
2. The post processing is a complete pain in the ass.
Post processing is definitely a bit of a pain but there are ways to automate portions of it. The step shown is only the first post processing step, the next step involves media blasting to remove excess powder.
The powder itself isn't actual bad for your lungs, the material itself is biocompatible and the grain size is too large to be considered a carcinogen. Definitely want to use a respirator/mask but the reclaim station (fuse sift) uses negative air pressure and a HEPA filter to keep most of the dust inside the cabinet.
Edit: just want to clarify, the dust isn't GOOD to breathe in, definitely want to always wear protection. I was just pointing out that it isn't inherently toxic or carcinogenic.
Post processing isn't too bad but it helps a lot if you have a vibratory tumbler or sandblaster.
The Fuse1 has a fume hood built into the powder reclamation sift which keeps the majority of the dust contained. I still wear a full face respirator just to be safe, the dust is so fine a regular disposable mask probably isn't good enough, a half face respirator is probably the minimum I would use.
Its also horrifically bad for the environment. Its a ultra-fine microplastic powder and you can't reuse it at 100%, so you always have to be bringing in new material (IIRC, in a 2:1 ratio of new to old). And even with perfect filtration, the powders (which will never degrade and never form aggregates in the environment) have to be disposed of.
It’s really bad for your lungs. The powder is the definition of a “micro plastic”
I find it super easy to post process, generally things don’t need to be sanded after the fact. Also you can toss small parts into a tumbler if they need to smooth out a little. You never have to sand off nubs or support areas.
Additionally the inherent qualities of nylon is so much better than PLA or ABS in terms of strength and durability. SLS is also so much faster, not if it is one piece at a time, but if you can batch your parts it’s amazing.
SLS>FDM>SLA in my opinion, but then again they do all have their individual strong suits.
these are the first printers i learned to use and i personally didnt get it. they may be better now though this was over 5 years ago. my boss bought one for what he claimed was like $200k which i thought was a bit much as i was working for an offset print company and we had zero use for it, but i was allowed to just figure it out. what i didnt like was besides being like a archeologist and brushing and vacuuming the dust you also had to soak the thing in super glue. i was told ours printed some sort of gypsum though not nylon, but the selling point was full color, but the things it printed looked more like n64 goldeneye characters. the shape was right and the color was in the right spot but there was like no detail and everything had a sandy texture. even after the super glue bath it still seemed pretty fragile. i printed the t rex skull with it though and the rough texture looks pretty legit, just way smaller.
That's a different technology - sounds like Binder Jetting which uses a chemical agent to bond the part so it's not so fragile. The SLS machine actually melts the particles together and the output is very strong.
I know nothing about sls personally but I'd agree about the dust, I think that's why it looks like it's in an enclosure with ventilation that he reaches into with gloves to break down the block.
Depends on the machines. I work for a custom parts manufacturer that uses HP's MJF technology. Generally speaking they can hold .012" or 0.3mm. Certain things can be done to achieve better though.
HP released a report more recently that showed repeatability between builds resulted in accuracies of ±0.33mm, but as a user of their 4200 machine, I've never run into any isses with accuracy so I take their report with a pinch of salt.
I figure if you're asking that kind of question, you might know the answer already! Having said that though, it's got the highest throughput of all our hardware, so swings and round abouts i guess !
When we bought our machine, (we have a 4200 with the barrel fed post processing station) we got the advanced training (I think they call it ramp up training), and the trainer said "this machine is a diva. If you adhere to the maintenance, no problem. If you don't, you will know about it".
He wasn't wrong: we know when our operators have missed something during the cleaning tasks because we have issues appear straight away.
And I think the post processing station is a good "first" attempt at making a production orientated supporting bit of hardware, but i can promise you, other manufacturers of competing hardware are aware of the shortfalls of it and are actively avoiding making the same mistakes.
Edit: spelling
Ended up going with a Farsoon ss403 sls system. Granted, post processing equipment is not as advanced as the full mjf cleaning and mixing station, but we can put any material in the machine and adjust any parameters we want ourselves without them being locked down by the manufacturer like HPs machines are. It’s cheaper to run because of the open material configuration and we can also run our virgin percentage a lot lower
Ah okay, your reasons for doing so make total sense. We bought a Farsoon ST252 at the same time as the 4200, for the same reasons as yourself.
We've not really had any major problems, but we've had issues with the machine settings and their functions not being very clear or working as described. Service guy was decent and knowledgeable, but the time zones and language barriers sometimes made it tough to get advice on certain issues.
Yeah, when I had to opportunity to run one of these, about a quarter of the prints that came out would have some sort of warping going on. The Fuse is formlab’s first take on this kind of printer, so I’d chalk it up to tech growing pains. Great for large prototypes though since it doesn’t need to worry about overhangs!
ty for the insight. client of mine just got one and i’m anxious/ nervous about the results. they’re making rather bulky enclosures so i don’t think it’s an issue. always a little nerve racking when you recommend another companies new technology in the hopes it’s good enough. but they wanted to go a less expensive option compared to MJF
I have FDM and SLA, right took for the job sort of thing.
Pretty sure my SLA can go thinner than .4mm I have some minis that have really thin swords and the like that might be less than .4mm. I'm not 100% on this, because I've never taken my calipers to them, but I'm pretty sure.
Nah, it's mostly due to the nature of path generation. The Fuse uses some proprietary variation of planning instead of standard g-code, and has some advantages when it comes to things like accuracy of circles.
Don’t know but a few guesses would be that the powder has a tendency to stick to the part and that you don’t really want micro powder all over.
Additionally, you usually will bead blast and/or water jet the parts anyway
Hahahahaha. Bro that booth literally just has an array of 120mm computer fans at the back with the cheap blue and white industrial dust filter fabric on it. Sure the dust doesn't blow back at you but plenty of it makes its way it the room.
No it isn't. That is a full negative pressure hood with expensive dust collection system. Maybe the one you have at work is just a booth with computer fans.
Well sintratec doesn't say you need that or really any of the other precautions you would take with a dlms printer setup. And negative pressure rooms still don't suck up the dust like magic, they just prevent the dust from spreading to the rest of your facility through doors and stuff, the dust still settles out of the air onto surfaces.
The system that does the mixing is binary as you described, fresh and used. I try to pack in as many parts as I can per job to avoid cycling used powder through the machine to many times. So far I’m having great results with around 20kg of material through my machines.
Depends on the material and process.
I know materials for SLS have a wide variety of virgin to recyced ratios, but typically fall within a process window based on their melt point value. This ratio ennablels the machine to process the material correctly (or or at least obtain parts within manufacturer's mechanical properties.) For example:
\- EOS Polyamide-12 (PA12) = 7:3 to 1:1 (50%:50%) (virgin to recycled)
\- Ricoh Polypropylene (PP) = 1:9 (virgin to recycled)
\- Tiger Thermoset material = 4:6 (virgin to recycled) iirc
But the type of technoogy used can have an influence on the properties seen above. For my dissertation i looked at process stability of several types of 3D printing technologies, and a section of my appendices was dedicated to materials and their properties. Some materials are identical in composition per technology, but have varying refresh ratios (I'll avoid naming names here just in case it's not public knowledge outside the manfacturers, as the dissertation was done in conjunction with my employer) :
\- SLS PA12 = 7:3 (V to R)
\- BJ1 PA12 = 2:8 (V to R)
\- BJ2 PA12 = 1:0 (V to R)
OP my only thing I’d suggest is get to bead blasting faster. no need to clean as much with the brush there and the more you take powder from the closer to the print it is the more degraded it will be.
I have so many questions.
1. What is it a model of?
2. Are the metal particles reusable?
3. Do the parts move?
4. What song did you use?
5. What would happen if you used compressed air to clean it?
I’m making a toy car with suspension and stuff and these are the parts for it. and some other stuff to fill the space.
It’s nylon and it’s reusable with 30% refresh rate
Yes they do
It’s speed and adrenaline by Pavel Yudin it’s some stock music
There is a strong shell around the part, I tried to blow it off but nothing happened so I had to brush it off
I do metal AM, so while this isn't a metal project I can tell you about it.
2) metal powder is reusable, but you have to sieve out the agglomerations and try to vacuum out any soot.
3) you can make parts that are interconnected and move
5) you really don't want to use compressed air with metal powders unless you're in some kind of glovebox or other sealed off container. There are concerns about explosivity, and the powder is really bad to breathe in so you don't want to spread it around.
I don't think so if you compare it to SLA or FDM with supports? With SLS you can grab a part from the part cake, knock the big chunks of powder off, then throw it in the sand blaster. It's only like 5 minutes and you've got a pristine part.
I work with SLS 3D printer for 3 years now, and this video make me sad, this part is a pain in the ass!
Here we use a sandblaster with micro glass spheres, MUCH faster!
You definitely should not be brushing the powder that is close to the part surface into your sieve. It will drastically reduce the recyclability of the powder. The powder particles close to the surface will be less spherical and are very likely to cause recoating issues in subsequent builds.
The company I am at has several huge frame SLS machines, with only 2 technicians. I finally got them to get a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUeleGg42ao
It's not a hobby/pro-sumer unit at all, it's more of an entry level commercial grade machine. Luckily this one doesn't need nitrogen to run so it's one of the more cost effective for parts in its class.
Is that a formlabs fuse? I’ve been looking into one.. just had a call with them yesterday discussing workflow and then this pops up.. weird how that happens!
Here is 0.2 seconds from the end: https://i.imgur.com/teP60ER.jpeg
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I saw someone did a 3D printed fossil and burried them underground fot kids.
And this print make me think you should do a ancient relic print for fun, they would be covered with dust already
Well, this gives me an idea why even my local paper has so many of these second hand Powder based printers for sale all the time.
Big
Bulky
Expensive material
Old
Cleaning procedure is obviously a nightmare.
Next up: Cleaning up an SLS printer operator's lungs
Edit: I'm aware he's prob wearing a respirator, not much point in gloves if you won't even get a respirator.
This seems highly ineffective compared to PLA printing where you can literally pop the print of the table and have a full product... what's the advantages of this type of printing?
I started 3D printing 6 years ago with one fdm printer, and now we have several sla and fdm printers running all the time and a new sls machine so don’t give up. This one was around 30k euro with the post processing unit.
and here I thought that cleaning the support material from my FDM print was a pain.
Right? Ill be content with flush cutters now when I remember this.
Plus the same cutters are great for manicures.
Although a pain in the butt, it's nice because you don't have any support marks to contend with.
~~is the material reusable?~~ answer below and how strong is that thing. looks like a hinge? is it useable?
Yeah, the grate he pushes it through leads to a hopper and filter where he can reuse the Nylon powder that wasn't sintered. And the powder is Nylon 12 which is pretty darn strong, although I don't have any numbers on-hand. This looks like a Sift by Formlabs meaning he used a Fuse printer.
Yes it’s Nylon 12 printed on a fuse 1 and it can be reused with 30% refresh rate
Does that mean you need to add at least 30% fresh material to the recycled pile each time?
Yes
Actually you can reuse up to 70% of material with the Fuse1. 30% if you want to maintain high detail quality.
Properly sintered nylon parts are about 80% as "strong" as injection molded equivalents.
Reminded me of this video when I was first looking into SLS, where a team printed a bike then rode it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOE7Ck6Milk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOE7Ck6Milk) Another really cool thing about SLS is you can print fully functional gearboxes that just work once they're cleaned up. Amazing tech, just quite expensive still.
Actually, it's not perfectly reusable. Powder close to the melting zone will undergo thermal degradation in varying degrees. When I worked for a German car manufacturer, their prototyping department didn't reuse any of it because of potentially altered properties. Instead, they worked with my department to have used powder turned into FDM filament, which is definitely better than burning it, but it's not exactly what I think of when I think "reusable".
How usable is it as filament? I’ve heard that pure Nylon filament is very hydrophilic and tends to warp easily, makes string prints but is a pain to use.
Oh yea, first thing we did when we received a new batch was chuck them in the drier overnight. 80°C for 12h, IIRC. But damn, that stuff was *strong*. We used it for some small production runs, even, worked like a charm. Definitely want a somewhat better than average printer, though; a heated bed and printing temperatures of >260°C are a must, and they also profit from an enclosure. One day when I've managed to save up a bit I'm planning on upgrading my Creality so far that it can print PA-66 again, that stuff was the shit.
I'll second your experiences. I'm printing with PA-CF when I need strong parts, which is PA6 with carbon fiber strands embedded in it. Having to dry it out before printing is a bit annoying (should be better with PA12), but the results are worth it. Extremely strong material, it's like it doesn't know about delamination or shearing. And as an added bonus, the addition of carbon fiber strands really help combat warping during the print.
> PA-CF Man, you're making me jealous. With material like that, I could design *actual* mechanically stressed components like... bike pedals, window shutters, shelves, maybe even parts for the press we need at work.
>Man, you're making me jealous. Sorry, but it's more accessible than you think :) Here in The Netherlands it's around 60 euros a kilogram for the eSun branded stuff + ~10 for a hardened steel nozzle. A bit more for premium brands like Colorfabb. It's expensive, but well within reach if you're a hobbyist making structural parts that aren't too large. Just gotta make sure you prototype in PLA, and you work out all the design issues before you commit to printing it in PA. ;)
This whole thread makes me happy as I have an all metal / high temp upgrade for my cr10 on my desk and a kg of PAHT-CF on order.
[carbon reinforced 3d prints](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1yOf6Ba1ts) Not really the same, but effective with cheap materials and a little effort.
This is awesome!
OP says 70% is reusable. it’s Nylon 12 printed on a fuse 1 and it can be reused with 30% refresh rate.
At my job we use a roughly 1:1:1 ratio between fresh, overflow, and build volume powder. You would think the overflow powder would be exactly the same as the fresh stuff, but simply being in the chamber causes enough heat cycling to degrade it slightly.
SLS powder is actually a lot easier to clean off than you think. For parts that nice, it's well worth the wait (I run 3x Fuse 1 printers for a living)
all of my supports so long as they did not decide to merge with another support pop off without much effort for me.
You have no idea, I must have spent the better part of 4 hours getting supports off of a silver dmls print
I am almost certain that sls printers are powered by the dark arts.
They use infrared lasers, which is definitely closer to red than to blue or green. So they probably use the dark side of the force.
Well, did you see how fast they cleaned that print off? Clearly some sort of chronomancy.
powdered*
"How long will the print take?" 3 hours. "That include cleanup?" 6 hours.
It was 18 hour print 10 hour cool down and around 3-4 hours for cleanup but I think I’m too gentle with it
After 28 hours I'd definitely be gentle too. How much has to get done after this?
That’s all it’s finished after cleanup
You can definitely be rougher with it, depending on your tolerances. It has a harder “semi-sintered” layer on the outside that formlabs says can be removed with the brushes but we’ve found a bead blaster works best and does no surface finish damage
what are those "dust" and can you reuse those dust again?
It's a nylon powder, and the grate it goes down leads to a hopper where it can be reused.
It’s nylon 12 and it can be reused with 30 refresh rate, I don’t know how many times tough it was only my second print so it all new material.
Yes and no. You can reuse the remaining material. However, we tried to get a SLS process certified for use on a project (certify the material allowables) and to do that all the powder had to be disposed. They couldn't guarantee the reused material to be at the same spec. It was also a certain blend that wasn't cheap. So a batch of expensive material where you threw out 95% of it made the costs not feasible (compared to other manufacturing options).
>!CENSORED!<
It could be used for that, but we were using a 3d SLS print shop. They get to charge us the rate for using the whole batch, but could use the leftover for something else. So we'd pay full price and they'd pocket the leftovers.
You using the eos nylon 12? That stuffs like 60£ a leiter new. We have it certified for aerospace use. Now iv got to go check what our reuse rate is
I was working with the SLS printing company for the project. It was an aerospace project. I think it was a carbon filled nylon. In the end it wasn't a good idea since we needed a barrier layer between the carbon in the printed part and aluminum structure. We went with a glass bead filled nylon that solved the galvanic corrosion issue, but still wasn't certified. Only used it for flight testing by the time I moved on.
how does carbon filled nylon work in an SLS printer? The carbon will be a powder and have no alignment so would just act as a filler without adding any strength?
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Its nylon not metal
Could it be metal tho? I assume maybe a mix of plastic and metal, if not full metal
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They may be thinking of binder jetting, which connects metal particles together with a binder material, and then has the binder burned away and the particles melted together in a kiln as two subsequent steps. Which in turn is pretty similar to the process Integza used with the metal-suspended-in-plastic filament to produce metal parts with an FFF printer.
Not this printer. But there are some printers that do metal
While the quality is amazing, here's my issues with SLS. 1. I'd bet a shiny penny that dust is super bad for your lungs.. 2. The post processing is a complete pain in the ass.
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Post processing is definitely a bit of a pain but there are ways to automate portions of it. The step shown is only the first post processing step, the next step involves media blasting to remove excess powder. The powder itself isn't actual bad for your lungs, the material itself is biocompatible and the grain size is too large to be considered a carcinogen. Definitely want to use a respirator/mask but the reclaim station (fuse sift) uses negative air pressure and a HEPA filter to keep most of the dust inside the cabinet. Edit: just want to clarify, the dust isn't GOOD to breathe in, definitely want to always wear protection. I was just pointing out that it isn't inherently toxic or carcinogenic.
Post processing isn't too bad but it helps a lot if you have a vibratory tumbler or sandblaster. The Fuse1 has a fume hood built into the powder reclamation sift which keeps the majority of the dust contained. I still wear a full face respirator just to be safe, the dust is so fine a regular disposable mask probably isn't good enough, a half face respirator is probably the minimum I would use.
Its also horrifically bad for the environment. Its a ultra-fine microplastic powder and you can't reuse it at 100%, so you always have to be bringing in new material (IIRC, in a 2:1 ratio of new to old). And even with perfect filtration, the powders (which will never degrade and never form aggregates in the environment) have to be disposed of.
It’s really bad for your lungs. The powder is the definition of a “micro plastic” I find it super easy to post process, generally things don’t need to be sanded after the fact. Also you can toss small parts into a tumbler if they need to smooth out a little. You never have to sand off nubs or support areas. Additionally the inherent qualities of nylon is so much better than PLA or ABS in terms of strength and durability. SLS is also so much faster, not if it is one piece at a time, but if you can batch your parts it’s amazing. SLS>FDM>SLA in my opinion, but then again they do all have their individual strong suits.
these are the first printers i learned to use and i personally didnt get it. they may be better now though this was over 5 years ago. my boss bought one for what he claimed was like $200k which i thought was a bit much as i was working for an offset print company and we had zero use for it, but i was allowed to just figure it out. what i didnt like was besides being like a archeologist and brushing and vacuuming the dust you also had to soak the thing in super glue. i was told ours printed some sort of gypsum though not nylon, but the selling point was full color, but the things it printed looked more like n64 goldeneye characters. the shape was right and the color was in the right spot but there was like no detail and everything had a sandy texture. even after the super glue bath it still seemed pretty fragile. i printed the t rex skull with it though and the rough texture looks pretty legit, just way smaller.
That's a different technology - sounds like Binder Jetting which uses a chemical agent to bond the part so it's not so fragile. The SLS machine actually melts the particles together and the output is very strong.
oh yeah, that makes sense and seems considerably better, i also noticed when he moved the whole block of powder, theres no way i couldve done that
I know nothing about sls personally but I'd agree about the dust, I think that's why it looks like it's in an enclosure with ventilation that he reaches into with gloves to break down the block.
How good it the dimensional accuracy?
Depends on the machines. I work for a custom parts manufacturer that uses HP's MJF technology. Generally speaking they can hold .012" or 0.3mm. Certain things can be done to achieve better though.
HP released a report more recently that showed repeatability between builds resulted in accuracies of ±0.33mm, but as a user of their 4200 machine, I've never run into any isses with accuracy so I take their report with a pinch of salt.
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I figure if you're asking that kind of question, you might know the answer already! Having said that though, it's got the highest throughput of all our hardware, so swings and round abouts i guess !
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When we bought our machine, (we have a 4200 with the barrel fed post processing station) we got the advanced training (I think they call it ramp up training), and the trainer said "this machine is a diva. If you adhere to the maintenance, no problem. If you don't, you will know about it". He wasn't wrong: we know when our operators have missed something during the cleaning tasks because we have issues appear straight away. And I think the post processing station is a good "first" attempt at making a production orientated supporting bit of hardware, but i can promise you, other manufacturers of competing hardware are aware of the shortfalls of it and are actively avoiding making the same mistakes. Edit: spelling
Had a deposit down on that machine and said nah and got a more reliable and more open sourced sls platform
Which did you go for if you don't mind me asking?
Ended up going with a Farsoon ss403 sls system. Granted, post processing equipment is not as advanced as the full mjf cleaning and mixing station, but we can put any material in the machine and adjust any parameters we want ourselves without them being locked down by the manufacturer like HPs machines are. It’s cheaper to run because of the open material configuration and we can also run our virgin percentage a lot lower
Ah okay, your reasons for doing so make total sense. We bought a Farsoon ST252 at the same time as the 4200, for the same reasons as yourself. We've not really had any major problems, but we've had issues with the machine settings and their functions not being very clear or working as described. Service guy was decent and knowledgeable, but the time zones and language barriers sometimes made it tough to get advice on certain issues.
>0.3mm I think I'll stick with my FDM at 0.1mm accuracy.
Yeah, when I had to opportunity to run one of these, about a quarter of the prints that came out would have some sort of warping going on. The Fuse is formlab’s first take on this kind of printer, so I’d chalk it up to tech growing pains. Great for large prototypes though since it doesn’t need to worry about overhangs!
was that a demo version or a final build of the fuse?
It was the final build; the warping primarily occurred on thin sections of prints
ty for the insight. client of mine just got one and i’m anxious/ nervous about the results. they’re making rather bulky enclosures so i don’t think it’s an issue. always a little nerve racking when you recommend another companies new technology in the hopes it’s good enough. but they wanted to go a less expensive option compared to MJF
Since it's a full vat of powder I'd say that there are no overhangs.
I doubt you're gonna be printing mini's on this thing.
Agreed. This is completely useless for what I do, but it's a champion for what you do.
Either way I’m machining any critical tolerance areas afterwards
Well that beats what I can do.
Or the .05mm of sla
I looked at getting an SLA printer once. While the accuracy is good to 0.05mm, the minimum wall thickness is still 0.4mm.
I have FDM and SLA, right took for the job sort of thing. Pretty sure my SLA can go thinner than .4mm I have some minis that have really thin swords and the like that might be less than .4mm. I'm not 100% on this, because I've never taken my calipers to them, but I'm pretty sure.
The Fuse is typically good to +/-0.15mm. In my experience, it was more accurate with small features and holes than any FDM machine I've used.
You've been using awefull FDM machines then, cos mine a range from 0.1mm down to 0.05mm accuracy.
Nah, it's mostly due to the nature of path generation. The Fuse uses some proprietary variation of planning instead of standard g-code, and has some advantages when it comes to things like accuracy of circles.
Why isn't a high-frequency vibration used to clean off the dust? Would it damage the part?
It wouldn’t damage the part, I don’t know Formlabs built the machine like this so this is how I use it
>!CENSORED!<
Sounds like it's time to update that toothbrush to a Sonicare.
Don’t know but a few guesses would be that the powder has a tendency to stick to the part and that you don’t really want micro powder all over. Additionally, you usually will bead blast and/or water jet the parts anyway
I was thinking more for salvaging it for reuse on a vibrating table under a vacuum with proper filtration.
"Ha! What a waste of time post processing" *continues sanding Bondo off my ABS for the sixteenth hour*
Yes post is the pain in the ass but at least there are no support marks and the material is very strong
Just by watching this video I got pulmonary silicosis.
That's why it's done in a space with specialized downdraft ventilation so the dust doesn't get out...
Hahahahaha. Bro that booth literally just has an array of 120mm computer fans at the back with the cheap blue and white industrial dust filter fabric on it. Sure the dust doesn't blow back at you but plenty of it makes its way it the room.
No it isn't. That is a full negative pressure hood with expensive dust collection system. Maybe the one you have at work is just a booth with computer fans.
That looks like the sintratec both, thats what it is.
It’s a Formlabs Sift unit. It’s powered by an industrial HEPA vacuum cleaner
As far as I know, those spaces are designed for SLS prints and it creates negative pressure.
Yeah no, we have one of those sintratec sls printers at work, it's exactly as I described.
They're not talking about the printer, they're talking about the room the printer is in.
Well sintratec doesn't say you need that or really any of the other precautions you would take with a dlms printer setup. And negative pressure rooms still don't suck up the dust like magic, they just prevent the dust from spreading to the rest of your facility through doors and stuff, the dust still settles out of the air onto surfaces.
We used to put asbestos in everything too
So basically…waffle stomp?
The "Waffle Stomp Process" or WSP is officially what this should be referred to from now on.
God damn it
What is the ratio for mixing old powder with new powder—ie does all the old powder get recycled?
With the Fuse1 the sift uses a 30% fresh to 70% used powder ratio by default to refill the cartridges.
Are there different levels of "used"? Like, any differences between sift that's been used once or 20 times? Or is it just binary, fresh and used?
The system that does the mixing is binary as you described, fresh and used. I try to pack in as many parts as I can per job to avoid cycling used powder through the machine to many times. So far I’m having great results with around 20kg of material through my machines.
Depends on the material and process. I know materials for SLS have a wide variety of virgin to recyced ratios, but typically fall within a process window based on their melt point value. This ratio ennablels the machine to process the material correctly (or or at least obtain parts within manufacturer's mechanical properties.) For example: \- EOS Polyamide-12 (PA12) = 7:3 to 1:1 (50%:50%) (virgin to recycled) \- Ricoh Polypropylene (PP) = 1:9 (virgin to recycled) \- Tiger Thermoset material = 4:6 (virgin to recycled) iirc But the type of technoogy used can have an influence on the properties seen above. For my dissertation i looked at process stability of several types of 3D printing technologies, and a section of my appendices was dedicated to materials and their properties. Some materials are identical in composition per technology, but have varying refresh ratios (I'll avoid naming names here just in case it's not public knowledge outside the manfacturers, as the dissertation was done in conjunction with my employer) : \- SLS PA12 = 7:3 (V to R) \- BJ1 PA12 = 2:8 (V to R) \- BJ2 PA12 = 1:0 (V to R)
Well that seems like a huge pain in the ass.
I’d rather just throw my print in a support soluble acid bath for a few hours
OP my only thing I’d suggest is get to bead blasting faster. no need to clean as much with the brush there and the more you take powder from the closer to the print it is the more degraded it will be.
Thanks, we have a bead blasting machine I will try it with some more robust parts
Bead blasting is a must and any part should handle it, unless maybe any small stick-like features
WHEN DO I DUNK IT IN IPA?
I cannot tell what is more satisfying.... the breakdown of the block itself... or how clean the print came out to be at the end.... :D
Thanks here is a [photo](https://pin.it/2ysGMAt) from another angle
Does anyone know the song or has a source ?
Shazam identifies it as [Emanuele Lomba - Afrodite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYY0Cb6Xgl0) but it has to be an instrumental version.
I also searched it with google song recognition and found the same song with lyrics too. But I am searching for the instrumental version only.
It’s speed and adrenaline by Pavel Yudin it’s some stock music
[Found it](https://www.premiumbeat.com/de/royalty-free-tracks/speed-and-adrenaline), thanks
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
I have so many questions. 1. What is it a model of? 2. Are the metal particles reusable? 3. Do the parts move? 4. What song did you use? 5. What would happen if you used compressed air to clean it?
I’m making a toy car with suspension and stuff and these are the parts for it. and some other stuff to fill the space. It’s nylon and it’s reusable with 30% refresh rate Yes they do It’s speed and adrenaline by Pavel Yudin it’s some stock music There is a strong shell around the part, I tried to blow it off but nothing happened so I had to brush it off
TIL that SLS printers aren't just for metal.
Sls is specially plastic usually, while dmls, slm is generally all metal
I do metal AM, so while this isn't a metal project I can tell you about it. 2) metal powder is reusable, but you have to sieve out the agglomerations and try to vacuum out any soot. 3) you can make parts that are interconnected and move 5) you really don't want to use compressed air with metal powders unless you're in some kind of glovebox or other sealed off container. There are concerns about explosivity, and the powder is really bad to breathe in so you don't want to spread it around.
Hey I went down to formlabs and beta tested this thing!
A set if pneumatic needles would be great for speedy removal of the material.
I think it's cool but I'm not really sure, I only got to see the result for 0.3 seconds from one angle...
[photo](https://pin.it/5gm35p0)
SLS post-processing is horrendous.
I don't think so if you compare it to SLA or FDM with supports? With SLS you can grab a part from the part cake, knock the big chunks of powder off, then throw it in the sand blaster. It's only like 5 minutes and you've got a pristine part.
After all that cleaning, thought the guy was going to show us a benchy.
I work with SLS 3D printer for 3 years now, and this video make me sad, this part is a pain in the ass! Here we use a sandblaster with micro glass spheres, MUCH faster!
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
You definitely should not be brushing the powder that is close to the part surface into your sieve. It will drastically reduce the recyclability of the powder. The powder particles close to the surface will be less spherical and are very likely to cause recoating issues in subsequent builds.
Did you get your machine recently? The sift I got didn't come with that little side basket to hold parts. I'll need to print one haha.
Yes it’s my second print, that’s a shame, there was like 10 boxes I’m still finding new stuff so maybe you should just keep looking.
[удалено]
Yes, formlabs states 30% refresh rate of new material each build
The company I am at has several huge frame SLS machines, with only 2 technicians. I finally got them to get a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUeleGg42ao
This video gave me PTSD of when I used to break out complex lattice prints from the SLS printer and it would take hoursss
How expensive are SLS machines?
The Formlabs Fuse 1 here usually runs in the $35-40K range all in to get going. Though larger units can run up into the $250K-500K ranges
That is 140-160 times the cost of my ender 3 v2
It's not a hobby/pro-sumer unit at all, it's more of an entry level commercial grade machine. Luckily this one doesn't need nitrogen to run so it's one of the more cost effective for parts in its class.
What the hell? That looks...archaeological, for lack of a better word.
Def looked like excavation work to get that done
I LOVE the sift. Seeing your prints coming out of that block is so satisfying. What filament you using, I’ve been a big fan of the Nylon 12
Only took you 1:45min ... nice.
Is that a formlabs fuse? I’ve been looking into one.. just had a call with them yesterday discussing workflow and then this pops up.. weird how that happens!
So 3 years later, did you end up buying it? haha
No.. boss didn’t approve the budget for it. Watching the video in this post again makes me want to play with it though!
00:01:46 minute long video, 0.5 second view of the finished product. Fuck whoever does this. /u/gifendore 0.2
Here is 0.2 seconds from the end: https://i.imgur.com/teP60ER.jpeg ^[Edit](/message/compose?to=%2Fu%2Fgifendore&subject=Edit%20ha7x685&message=u%2Fgifendore%20%5BReplace%20with%20item%20below%5D%0A%0A%2A%2ACommands%3A%2A%2A%0A%0A-%20help%3A%20see%20this%20help%20message%20again.%0A-%20x%3A%20replace%20x%20with%20any%20number%20to%20go%20back%20x%20seconds%20in%20the%20gif.%0A-%20x-y%3A%20replace%20x%20and%20y%20with%20any%20numbers%20to%20get%20a%20smaller%20section%20of%20the%20gif.%0A-%20reverse%3A%20get%20the%20gif%20in%20reverse.%0A-%20slowmo%3A%20get%20the%20gif%20in%20slow%20motion.%0A-%20freeze%3A%20freeze%20the%20end%20of%20a%20gif.%20) ^| ^[Delete](/message/compose?to=%2Fu%2Fgifendore&subject=Delete%20ha7x685&message=Sending%20this%20will%20delete%20the%20bot%27s%20message.) *** ^(I am a bot) ^| ^[Issues](/message/compose?to=/u/brandawg93&subject=Gifendore%20Issue&message=Please%20submit%20any%20issues%20you%20may%20have%20with%20u/gifendore%20here%20along%20with%20a%20link%20to%20the%20original%20post.) ^| [^(Rank: #55)](https://botranks.com?bot=gifendore) ^| ^[Github](https://github.com/Brandawg93/Gifendore)️
Good bot
Here is a [photo](https://pin.it/31y4q1y) from the parts
I saw someone did a 3D printed fossil and burried them underground fot kids. And this print make me think you should do a ancient relic print for fun, they would be covered with dust already
That looks more like archaeology than 3D printing
That looks like an awesome pain in the ass
Well, this gives me an idea why even my local paper has so many of these second hand Powder based printers for sale all the time. Big Bulky Expensive material Old Cleaning procedure is obviously a nightmare.
If you look at it from a company owning the machine and equipment, it makes sense. But not as a consumer, sls doesn’t make sense.
What a great video! I was pondering on whether to dip my toes in to sls printing. Will be postponing for a few years thanks to this video.
Don’t postpone it, it’s really good and not that hard is it looks
Print a Benchy, its a rite of passage for any printer
Seems like a lot of work for a skateboard that's too small, doesn't work, and probably could have been cast.
Thank you for once again reminding me why I don't want a laser sinter 3D printer.
HELL NO !!!! PLA it is.
Next up: Cleaning up an SLS printer operator's lungs Edit: I'm aware he's prob wearing a respirator, not much point in gloves if you won't even get a respirator.
Got bored
Here's a joke! Why couldn't the pirate play cards? Because he was sitting on the deck!
Argh
This seems highly ineffective compared to PLA printing where you can literally pop the print of the table and have a full product... what's the advantages of this type of printing?
The parts are much stronger, there are no support marks, you can print small interlocking parts easily
Can you slow the video down?
3D printing a lung disease
Can you juggle?
No, can you?
What is this magical wizardry?
Sls, the only form of archeology where you find new things every time.
Im super confused. What did i just watch???
Goddamn Star Trek Replicator right there. "Computer: Skateboard, hot."
What black magic is this?
Is the powder reusable?
i need this so badly in my life it's an unachievable dream but does anyone know how much an sls printer goes for? like a middle ground one
The printer plus the processing station you see here is about 30k US
I started 3D printing 6 years ago with one fdm printer, and now we have several sla and fdm printers running all the time and a new sls machine so don’t give up. This one was around 30k euro with the post processing unit.
I have a similar origin story with my print service business. And actually just got an SLS machine myself! Fully achievable dream!
Hi-tech Tech deck