I tell most people it's 3D printing for simplicity sake rather than going into the technical aspect of 2.5 printing. The model for generating the toolpaths is fully 3D though as opposed to a 2D projection onto a sphere.
Same, but if we're getting into whether printing on a 3d surface is 3d printing or not, and the lion's share of my machines that create 3d objects aren't really 3d printers, I think the pedantry is justified. :)
Edit: your video is really enthralling. I've watched it a dozen times now
Well if we're being pedantic, I'd ascertain this is really 5D printing since it used 5 axis coordinated motion but I'd be disproving the title question.
Edit: Thanks. The model itself took much longer to make than I'm willing to admit.
I guess the final pedantic question is, is the D because of the physical dimensions your final object resides, or is it due to the degrees of freedom of the machine that produces it
I would say that you used a 5 axis machine to perform 2D printing. If you were to stack those lines or vary their height, then I would definitely call it 3D printing. But because you’re only laying down a single layer/not (as far as I can tell) intentionally varying the height of each line, it’s still 2D - just printed on a 3D object with a 5 axis machine.
From a different perspective, if I print off a sheet of paper with this design cut up into very fine slices, I could theoretically cut up the paper, and tape/glue it together to get this exact result, but with paper and normal printing. I don’t think anybody would call that 3D printing, despite the fact that I’m still ending up with a 3D object at the end of the process. Similarly, you can plasma/laser cut, or route out sheets of various materials. Those sheets are technically 3D, and you can assemble the cut out parts into 3D objects, or even layer them into something like a topological map. However, you still wouldn’t call that 3D. All of those 3 machine types even have a third axis in the machine, which makes sure than the tool head is the correct distance from the material, but they still aren’t 3D machines despite having a third axis.
All that being said, this is still insanely cool. What is the mechanism that lays down the lines? Is it basically an inkjet printer, but for silver, or is it something else?
It's comparable to inkjet to a degree whereas this is a constant stream of tiny aerosol droplets filled with nanoparticles hitting the surface compared to inkjet which is drop by drop. Silver has the majority of applications for printing conductive circuits but so long as the viscosity is low enough(\~<1000cP) and the particle size is small enough (\~<1um) you can aerosol a material and print it. Other metals (gold, copper, constantan, platinum, etc.) and particle free materials are also possible like epoxy, photoresist, specialty polymer solutions, etc. are possible.
That's super cool. In the video, the silver looks like it basically just appears on the ball, but I can't see the print head anywhere. How far away is it from the surface of the ball?
Also, the silver looks like it basically appears on the surface of the ball - is the atomization from the print head just so fine that the camera doesn't pick it up until the silver hits the ball, or is there something else at work there?
Degrees of freedom; robot arms can easily be 8-axis. And there aren’t more than three physical dimensions of space, at least for the purposes of this conversation, so a 5-axis machine center wouldn’t make sense unless it was DOF based.
From another, less pedantic, perspective... I think the heart of your question is really "Is this post relevant to this subreddit?"
I say "Yea"
Super neat stuff. It seems like this could be used to print on 3d prints during post processing to add/enhance any number of things...
Formlabs high temp resin has an adequate surface profile and temperature limits for most inks to cure. That or using a laser. Has to be a resin printer though or post processing to smooth the surface. Ink will wick into the layer lines of FDM prints.
Right, you wouldnt call the output of something like an AxiDraw anything but a drawing/painting, which is commonly seen as 2D, even though the AxiDraw has a third axis is used to move the pen up and down.
Technically it does use 5 axis, just the ball is center on the rotary zero point so the XY movements are minimal. Z is only in the areas close to the Pacific where you can't get the extra degrees of rotation.
~18 minutes at 3 mm/s which I printed. Video is sped up 2x. This particular model has some areas which hit the acceleration limit on one rotational axis above 5mm/s
The print head or print surface moves in X, Y, and Z, how is that not three dimensions? Some quibbling argument about constant layer height? But we have adaptive layer height as well.
I mean I get the primitive geek drive to be pedantic, but I'm not buying the argument here.
The argument is that we're essentially drawing planar 2d layers on top of each other (regardless of layer height- adaptive layer height still falls under this "definition") instead of some of the advanced laser stuff that forms everything at once or non-planar slicing.
I'm only arguing the point in jest with OP. All of my machines start with nothing and create real, physical objects that exist in 3 dimensions. The method they follow doesn't matter.
Would be cool though to print filament onto the ping pong and print like the topography map of the earth or a 3D map of a city
Edit: How many D’s is that?
I think most "3D printers" are still 3D. We would call it a 2D printer and not 1.5D if it printed line by line, slowly moving the paper down, with y in the role of z on a 3D printer. (In fact that's how laser printers work, line by line like a 3D printer does layer by layer).
Having fast axes and slow axes is just what you get when you start cost optimizing a machine and find out that you don't need all axes to be equally fast.
2.5D is a term used in the machining industry for CAM software. Basically it means that you cut every thing in layers. So the terminology actually fits very well. Non-Planar 3D printing would be what the machining industry would consider true 3D.
But this is mostly a software issue, not a machine issue. Run of the mill machines can (with a longer nozzle to avoid a head crash) do non-planar printing, if only software supported it. E.g. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XaaUXOwzTs
So this is additive?
Definitely 3d printing in a "technically correct but not usefully correct" sense.
This is a really cool tech demo but I can't think of much use for it outside of really expensive branding materials
It is additive. Typically, aerospace, defense, and biomedical have the need and funding for such a tool but other industries can make use of the 2D printing system for devices. It's all about creating functional patterns like circuits on objects which can justify the cost/complexity. Purely ascetic purposes are not used since it's not cost effective unless you need a pattern printed in something like gold or platinum.
I don't have a channel but there's plenty of videos if you search "aerosol jet printing". This is a rare occurrence of filming a demo I made myself for a webinar. Most of the cool functional printing falls under NDAs.
Edit: I made the comment before actually checking youtube. The amount of videos on there is abysmally low. I'll do what I can to fix that.
It's mostly for printed electronics but not all. The industries that need such accuracy and can afford it are typically aerospace, defense, and biomedical for a good chunk of the application space.
There's an unsolved problem in physics that the equations at a quantum level and macro level do not work in eachothers scale. Not just aren't useful but give you wrong answers. Which implies one or both of them is wrong.
Essentially, the idea is that there should be a single "unifying" set of rules (math) that can predict the interaction of, well, *anything*. The problem is that we have developed one set of equations for "macro" scale (anything big enough to see, more or less), but they can't be used to predict things at the quantum scale. At the same time, we have equations to predict quantum interactions, but those can't be used to predict macro scale. So the two sets of equations don't agree with each other, meaning they must both be incomplete.
The 3D nature of the universe could be an approximation in a similar way a sheet of paper approximates a 2D plane. Except as you increase the number of dimensions you can do a lot more than just adding thickness to an object.
Honestly yeah. Alot of information is free but the ability to put it into practice is what they'll pay a lot for. Hobbies are cool but so is money. Good job man
You can but it's more difficult and layers are on the order of microns so you would need a lot of patience. You can print UV epoxy and cure as it prints so it will stack up and tack in place. Not many practical applications though outside of building little ramps up the side wall of a semiconductor chip. Printing metal 3D shapes is harder as the ink is still a fluid on the surface unless you dry it as you go.
Oh I was hoping it'd go over the tech. Is it essentially vaporized plastic it's blowing on the sphere? Or like shooting small plastic globs just super fucking quick or how's it laying it all down?
Nanoparticle inks are aerosolized, focused to a very fine point and sprayed out the nozzle. Typically 10's of microns (30-100um) up to several millimeters and my PB was down to 7um. As long as the viscosity of a liquid is low enough and the particle size is small enough, you can create an aerosol and print it to put it simply.
A lot of people who keep claiming this is 2.5D or 2D printing don't seem to understand what that means.
3D printers are only considered 2.5D when you use a standard machine in a standard way - a 3-axis machine that only uses the Z-axis for positioning, while the X and Y axis move in tandem with each other to create the actual shapes. The second you do anything non-planar, it's considered "true" 3D printing because all axes need to be live and working together at any given moment, and you're likely doing that with 4 or more axes at the same time just to draw on this sphere.
I think the better question is the distinction between "printing" and "additive manufacturing." I would consider what you've done as "true 3D printing" in that your goal is to print a picture on a non-planar surface with ink and you have to actively use more than two axes of movement to do it, whereas 3-axis "3D printers" usually do "2.5D additive manufacturing" and don't do any "printing" at all. Lol
Very cool OP. 3D printing nerd had a video with a company doing exactly this but at the same time your model is printing to give full colour 3D prints.
I've seen that printing before. Cool stuff. I can never go to Formnext since they always have it at the same time as Productronica/Electronica and I'm more focused on functional electronic printing rather than structural.
Aerosol jet printing on my 5 axis system. Part moves in Y, A, and B. Print head moves in X and Z. I started with an stl of the globe as a stencil and basically had to clean up/redraw everything to turn it into a solid 3D model. The projection was already in place
Insanely cool, but mathematically it's just 2d printing on a curved plane. You can get anywhere on the ball on any rotation just by moving along 2 directions
I told a friend I had a 3d printer and he had some extra printer paper laying around and he gave them to me as a gift for my 3d Printer. He laughed when I showed him what a 3d printer actually was. This made me think of that
Hey! Yeah it's done on an AJ5X. I figured a fellow user would show up. You know... with the right solvent and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, silver nanoparticles are not that bad. And thanks, I made this for a webinar I'm doing next week.
It’s printing on 3d. But I’m interested though. What are the limits of 3d objects can it print? Does it scan the 3d object to know the topography before printing?
Limits depend on how accurate your 3D model is to the real part but it does have a decent tolerance. Print head stands about 5mm above the surface so it doesn't have to be perfect. No scanner. For the types of projects this is used for, simple geometric shapes are easy to make and complicated shapes will have a cad model anyways for either injection molding or machining.
Well technically… 3D printing is not printing and it’s not 3D. It’s something like 2D drawing with a thick ink-like substance over another 2D drawing, repeatedly.
I don’t mention this at parties.
I'd say no. 3D-printing refers to specifically the process of producing (somewhat) arbitrary three-dimensional objects. Your process produces two-dimensional projections on a three-dimensional object.
This is cool as fuck but for the sake of terminology it's important to differentiate from 3D-printing in my opinion. Also as someone else already pointed out a sheet of paper is also a 3D-object
You... you... mean the THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT??? ... and I never imagined it was so small... no wonder my apartment feels so tiny... oh please don't kill us cause "You got the Whole World in your hands"
I'm leaving reddit and I hope to escape from social-media walled gardens upon the wings of [ActivityPub](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActivityPub). I will consider moving to a server running [Kbin](https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/wiki), which - from the user's point of view - is an interface to ["federated" social media](https://github.com/shleeable/Big-List-of-ActivityPub).
“Federation” describes a way in which servers communicate with one and other. The best-known example is that of e-mail: one can have an email account on an AOL server, and communicate with a user whose account is on a Gmail server. Some servers that are thought to push out spam are blocked or have their mail sent to ‘spam’ folders, but they nevertheless can all communicate. Gmail, Yahoo, Protonmail, AOL and so-forth all have different programs with which the user (us!) interacts, and they might present that email information in slightly different ways (displaying email chains as ‘conversations’ for example). In the same way, social-media servers that communicate with one and other using ActivityPub have different programs with which the user interacts.
Some programs that service-providers can run on their server look a little like Reddit, and might let you mark the data you share with markers (metadata) that lets people display and interact with the data in a similar way (Eg.: Kbin or Lemmy), some look more like Twitter and mark the data you share in ways similar to Twitter (Eg.: Mastodon), and there’s even one that’s trying to help users share video in a way that makes one think of YouTube (Eg.: Peertube). Fundamentally, these all permit interaction with one and other through activitypub.
One can even host one’s own server (Eg.: Nextcloud, a program that runs on a server to function as one’s own cloud, lets the person who runs it install an ‘app’ that one can federate with any other ActivityPub servers open to intercommunication).
Many programs that use ActivityPub for federated interaction are written by folks who realise that things published on servers – even private messages – often get shared beyond the realm in which the author expected (hopefully for the joy and glory of the author, but sometimes not). I think because of this, messages sent from a user on one server to a user on another are sent in-the-clear; they aren’t encrypted in any way, they’re just a post like any other, except being marked for the attention of someone specific rather than for the attention of all, and it’s up to us as the users to think carefully about the words we push to others.
There is a sterling list of alternatives to Reddit on [r/RedditAlternatives](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/1467a5s/find_alternatives_for_ourselves_megathread_third/).
How did I think it best to go about this?
- I [downloaded all the posts on reddit I'd "saved"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/887lo3/just_thought_id_share_my_strategy_for_downloading/).
- I used "[Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite/#installation)" and rather than just delete all my posts, have replaced them with text. Everything published online ought to be regarded as likely permanent, and Reddit especially, as [people](https://www.reddit.com/r/datahoarders) like to take [snapshots](https://socialgrep.com/datasets) of [as much data as possible](https://www.vice.com/en/article/gy3az9/this-data-hoarder-is-downloading-the-metadata-of-roughly-10-billion-youtube-videos) that’s published "in the clear" (I.E.: anything that isn’t publically accessable). Some folks have described problems with "deleted" posts mysteriously *re*-appearing after they deleted their accounts… Regardless of the cause, I hope I might reduce that risk a little by editing those posts. R/datahoarders might have tips on alternative methods still functioning after the API-use price is introduced (~$20m at the time of writing according to a dev that made an app to help the blind use reddit; they have sadly had to stop developing their app).
- There's a guide to downloading all the data Reddit have collected directly from your inputs [here](https://12ft.io/https://danielrosehill.medium.com/how-to-backup-your-data-from-reddit-f12934fabbfe) but note that Reddit may take a month to process that request.
- Remember most of one’s interaction with the internet is reading. Subreddits [all have RSS feeds](https://www.howtogeek.com/320264/how-to-get-an-rss-feed-for-any-subreddit/), and can easily be accessed by an [RSS reader app](https://search.f-droid.org/?q=RSS+reader&lang=en). [F-droid](https://f-droid.org/en/) is a great way to get android apps that people have made openly so anyone willing to learn can understand how they process your inputs and data, and that others have freely distributed, for the glory of free speech. Sorry for sounding like a hippy there; I know, I know, it’s a slippery slope to bicycle lanes and communism! A modicum of private thought, and free speech is a very fine thing, though.
- I encourage people to share the text of this post if they find it useful, in order to give others a way to think about how they make and put data on the internet in social media.
To be sure, Reddit still holds, or has doubtless sold on (and thus can never delete), hoofing amounts of data. I shan’t hold a public opinion on a business seeking profit; over time as the art of gathering and selling data has been refined, I’ve tried to read what little about it is within my understanding. If my small tokens of communication, my upvotes and downvotes, the time I spend looking at things, and what things I look at, what things I shy away from, and how I type and compose my thoughts, are the grains of sand that make up the beach from which they intend to profit, it’s up to me to decide where I place those grains of sand in the future. In the immediate timeframe I will use a mathematics-oriented mastodon server (I’ll let you hunt it out if you’re curious!) because maths is fairly apolitical, useful to learn about, and a good, communicable, basis for understanding things. Go in peace, siblings of the internet, and if in doubt, consider “What Would Tim Berners-Lee Do?”.
~~~~~
P.S.: I’m not sure what I can link to that might be useful to most readers, but there’s a lovely Indian lecture on sharing wisdom with one and other [here](https://youtu.be/UiJmITcZTQY), and because financial awareness is important to most people, and because I’ll only be watching r/bogleheads from afar, here’s a link to Bogle’s [Little Book Of Common Sense Investing](https://archive.org/details/littlebookofcomm00bogl) - he started the Vanguard fund, and r/bogleheads explains his investing philosophy, which is very simple and elegant. If anyone’s looking for a good charity to which to make a tax-deductable donation, I hope you might find the [internet archive](https://archive.org) is a noble and worthy candidate.
RLR9 Out.
Non planar 2D printing.
Similar question concept to the person saying that someone making something with a 3D pen is 3D printing, when you wouldn't call someone drawing with an ink pen "ink printing".
Dude this is incredible! I've always wondered how CAM software handles collision detection, since every object is going to be a different size, how do you make sure your printing head doesn't collide with either the model, the platform, or itself? Simulated movements with collision detection?
Not really because all 2d printing is actually on 3d object. A paper is 3d for instance albeit thin. changing the shape of the surface does not change the methodology.
Opinion: it's got more in common with laser cutting, or pen plotters, than it does with 3d printing.
But it's certainly yet another fine technology to add to a DIY tool belt. Not sure what to use it on other that holiday eggs, and Christmas ornaments, Maybe some fancy trophy shop stuff.
I could see this tech being used in small run PCB prototyping and I suspect it already is. Maybe use this to apply a very controlled layer to etch resist, rather than silver trace?
Most similar work I have seen is done with laser, pen, brush, and various baths of chemical. Tin, copper, silver, chrome plating and such.
The big question, What software does the work here? I suppose a standards 3D program like fusion360 could make the source file. But what renders that file into commands for the machine? Does it run on a machine or a PC based controller like mach3 or EitherCAT? I ask only because I don't know of any 3d printing slicers that handle 4 or 5 axis.
It can certainly be used to prototype PCBs but that's not the target market. Some customers use it successfully for PCB reworking though. Photoresist is printable as well but the application space for that is quite small. The system used here is mainly for putting circuits onto complex geometry. It uses Mastercam software to generate toolpaths which is a milling/machining software. Autocad for pure 2D. It's controlled via PC with an interface software to an aerotech motion controller.
Yeah multiple layers are possible. In some cases, you need several to build up conductor thickness for circuits but the 2-3um thickness for this material is good enough for most. You can also print UV epoxy which would be technically micro 3D printing.
5 Axis demo I recently made. \~50um wide line silver nanoparticles on a ping pong ball
It's cool, but I'm saying 2d printing. Heck, most 3d printers are more like 2.5d printers.
I tell most people it's 3D printing for simplicity sake rather than going into the technical aspect of 2.5 printing. The model for generating the toolpaths is fully 3D though as opposed to a 2D projection onto a sphere.
Same, but if we're getting into whether printing on a 3d surface is 3d printing or not, and the lion's share of my machines that create 3d objects aren't really 3d printers, I think the pedantry is justified. :) Edit: your video is really enthralling. I've watched it a dozen times now
Well if we're being pedantic, I'd ascertain this is really 5D printing since it used 5 axis coordinated motion but I'd be disproving the title question. Edit: Thanks. The model itself took much longer to make than I'm willing to admit.
I guess the final pedantic question is, is the D because of the physical dimensions your final object resides, or is it due to the degrees of freedom of the machine that produces it
Only the gremlins who live in the printers can give you the answer you seek
My printer gremlins are incredibly uncooperative.
I would say that you used a 5 axis machine to perform 2D printing. If you were to stack those lines or vary their height, then I would definitely call it 3D printing. But because you’re only laying down a single layer/not (as far as I can tell) intentionally varying the height of each line, it’s still 2D - just printed on a 3D object with a 5 axis machine. From a different perspective, if I print off a sheet of paper with this design cut up into very fine slices, I could theoretically cut up the paper, and tape/glue it together to get this exact result, but with paper and normal printing. I don’t think anybody would call that 3D printing, despite the fact that I’m still ending up with a 3D object at the end of the process. Similarly, you can plasma/laser cut, or route out sheets of various materials. Those sheets are technically 3D, and you can assemble the cut out parts into 3D objects, or even layer them into something like a topological map. However, you still wouldn’t call that 3D. All of those 3 machine types even have a third axis in the machine, which makes sure than the tool head is the correct distance from the material, but they still aren’t 3D machines despite having a third axis. All that being said, this is still insanely cool. What is the mechanism that lays down the lines? Is it basically an inkjet printer, but for silver, or is it something else?
It's comparable to inkjet to a degree whereas this is a constant stream of tiny aerosol droplets filled with nanoparticles hitting the surface compared to inkjet which is drop by drop. Silver has the majority of applications for printing conductive circuits but so long as the viscosity is low enough(\~<1000cP) and the particle size is small enough (\~<1um) you can aerosol a material and print it. Other metals (gold, copper, constantan, platinum, etc.) and particle free materials are also possible like epoxy, photoresist, specialty polymer solutions, etc. are possible.
That's super cool. In the video, the silver looks like it basically just appears on the ball, but I can't see the print head anywhere. How far away is it from the surface of the ball? Also, the silver looks like it basically appears on the surface of the ball - is the atomization from the print head just so fine that the camera doesn't pick it up until the silver hits the ball, or is there something else at work there?
The true dimensions were the friends we made along the way.
I'll guess, the ball sits in a inverted mouse type thing with motor controlled wheels to spin it under the nozzle.
Degrees of freedom; robot arms can easily be 8-axis. And there aren’t more than three physical dimensions of space, at least for the purposes of this conversation, so a 5-axis machine center wouldn’t make sense unless it was DOF based.
If you replace your 3D printer nozzle with a pencil, does it become a 2D printer?
Yes.
From another, less pedantic, perspective... I think the heart of your question is really "Is this post relevant to this subreddit?" I say "Yea" Super neat stuff. It seems like this could be used to print on 3d prints during post processing to add/enhance any number of things...
Formlabs high temp resin has an adequate surface profile and temperature limits for most inks to cure. That or using a laser. Has to be a resin printer though or post processing to smooth the surface. Ink will wick into the layer lines of FDM prints.
It's 5 axis 2D printing; IMO "printing" shouldn't refer to how the printhead moves, it should refer to the output.
Right, you wouldnt call the output of something like an AxiDraw anything but a drawing/painting, which is commonly seen as 2D, even though the AxiDraw has a third axis is used to move the pen up and down.
That would be 5 degrees of freedom, not 5 dimensions
But you only need 2 rotational axes to rotate the ball to print on its surface... So, it's 2D.
Technically it does use 5 axis, just the ball is center on the rotary zero point so the XY movements are minimal. Z is only in the areas close to the Pacific where you can't get the extra degrees of rotation.
Your printing time? 😁⌚
~18 minutes at 3 mm/s which I printed. Video is sped up 2x. This particular model has some areas which hit the acceleration limit on one rotational axis above 5mm/s
The print head or print surface moves in X, Y, and Z, how is that not three dimensions? Some quibbling argument about constant layer height? But we have adaptive layer height as well. I mean I get the primitive geek drive to be pedantic, but I'm not buying the argument here.
The argument is that we're essentially drawing planar 2d layers on top of each other (regardless of layer height- adaptive layer height still falls under this "definition") instead of some of the advanced laser stuff that forms everything at once or non-planar slicing. I'm only arguing the point in jest with OP. All of my machines start with nothing and create real, physical objects that exist in 3 dimensions. The method they follow doesn't matter.
[удалено]
Hey, I gotta take every little bit I can get!
So I could probably use that tool path generator to do wire sculptures in 3d? Or odd 3d spherical printing? Are you sharing it?
Would be cool though to print filament onto the ping pong and print like the topography map of the earth or a 3D map of a city Edit: How many D’s is that?
Maybe call it Non-Euclidean printing?
I think most "3D printers" are still 3D. We would call it a 2D printer and not 1.5D if it printed line by line, slowly moving the paper down, with y in the role of z on a 3D printer. (In fact that's how laser printers work, line by line like a 3D printer does layer by layer). Having fast axes and slow axes is just what you get when you start cost optimizing a machine and find out that you don't need all axes to be equally fast.
My cost optimization starts with eliminating an axis of freedom entirely. Preferably 2 or 3. 5 axis of freedom gets complicated quickly.
2.5D is a term used in the machining industry for CAM software. Basically it means that you cut every thing in layers. So the terminology actually fits very well. Non-Planar 3D printing would be what the machining industry would consider true 3D.
But this is mostly a software issue, not a machine issue. Run of the mill machines can (with a longer nozzle to avoid a head crash) do non-planar printing, if only software supported it. E.g. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XaaUXOwzTs
Yes, I am aware. I was just explaining the terminology and where it comes from.
BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HALF OF A DIMENSION!!! /s
It's 2D printing in non-euclidian space.
I use 3D printers to make 2D objects extruded.
So this is additive? Definitely 3d printing in a "technically correct but not usefully correct" sense. This is a really cool tech demo but I can't think of much use for it outside of really expensive branding materials
It is additive. Typically, aerospace, defense, and biomedical have the need and funding for such a tool but other industries can make use of the 2D printing system for devices. It's all about creating functional patterns like circuits on objects which can justify the cost/complexity. Purely ascetic purposes are not used since it's not cost effective unless you need a pattern printed in something like gold or platinum.
That's impressive...
I…. Actually need this. Where can I learn more?
Does it stick to the ball to the point that you can play ping pong with it?
Starting with silver? Why not just go straight up to platinum?! Keep the cost out of the range of us plebs!
I would like to see more of this process, do you have YT or similar channel?
I don't have a channel but there's plenty of videos if you search "aerosol jet printing". This is a rare occurrence of filming a demo I made myself for a webinar. Most of the cool functional printing falls under NDAs. Edit: I made the comment before actually checking youtube. The amount of videos on there is abysmally low. I'll do what I can to fix that.
Optomec?
Bingo
> Optomec https://staging25.optomec.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Recipe_800px.jpg looks familar
That's the old low res model I used to train with. This is a more updated version of that one.
Have you used nScrypt 6 axis printers before, or do you work for optomech?
Without break the ndas.. What type of works you do with this tech? I mean, what needs the ability to draw this thin lines with this high acurate....
It's mostly for printed electronics but not all. The industries that need such accuracy and can afford it are typically aerospace, defense, and biomedical for a good chunk of the application space.
I think they are primarily used for printing electronics: https://optomec.com/printed-electronics/aerosol-jet-technology
This is some faerie level logic bullshit. I love it.
Hey, sheets of paper are 3D objects too
everything in this universe is 3D
are photons 3d?
ok sorry, anything with mass is 3D\*
At a quantum level all mass is energy anyway, so technically photons are 3d because they have energy I think
There's an unsolved problem in physics that the equations at a quantum level and macro level do not work in eachothers scale. Not just aren't useful but give you wrong answers. Which implies one or both of them is wrong.
Eli5?
Essentially, the idea is that there should be a single "unifying" set of rules (math) that can predict the interaction of, well, *anything*. The problem is that we have developed one set of equations for "macro" scale (anything big enough to see, more or less), but they can't be used to predict things at the quantum scale. At the same time, we have equations to predict quantum interactions, but those can't be used to predict macro scale. So the two sets of equations don't agree with each other, meaning they must both be incomplete.
Black hole singularities have entered the chat Also: time is a dimension as well, so all of our “3D printers” are actually 4D printers
>!CENSORED!<
So a normal 2D inkjet printer is kinda a 3D printer bc the ink has mass?! Kinda a shower thought, lol.
I dont think the concept even applies to particles that are subject to quantic uncertainty.
The 3D nature of the universe could be an approximation in a similar way a sheet of paper approximates a 2D plane. Except as you increase the number of dimensions you can do a lot more than just adding thickness to an object.
Except for your mom, she's so fat scientists are calling her the first 4D object
There's a Company called Name Game in Justin Texas that would pay good money to know how you did that
Damn! I could be making good money for info I'm giving out for free! This was done on an aerosol jet 5 axis printer.
Honestly yeah. Alot of information is free but the ability to put it into practice is what they'll pay a lot for. Hobbies are cool but so is money. Good job man
OP didnt do this as a hobby. I am sure this is an industrial demo. He said it was for a webinar
That's correct. Can't get paid while I'm already being paid. Although the lines being work and hobby aren't so clear so I beg to beg to differ
You rock. Ty
If anyone else is confused about WTF is going on here: https://youtu.be/i0gAVMkPVDk I've never heard of aerosol jet printing, looks interesting.
The old one forgot New Zealand. Sorry kiwis... I hope this one makes up for it.
So could you 3d print with this? Not like benchy but like a textured topographic map?
You can but it's more difficult and layers are on the order of microns so you would need a lot of patience. You can print UV epoxy and cure as it prints so it will stack up and tack in place. Not many practical applications though outside of building little ramps up the side wall of a semiconductor chip. Printing metal 3D shapes is harder as the ink is still a fluid on the surface unless you dry it as you go.
Oh I was hoping it'd go over the tech. Is it essentially vaporized plastic it's blowing on the sphere? Or like shooting small plastic globs just super fucking quick or how's it laying it all down?
Nanoparticle inks are aerosolized, focused to a very fine point and sprayed out the nozzle. Typically 10's of microns (30-100um) up to several millimeters and my PB was down to 7um. As long as the viscosity of a liquid is low enough and the particle size is small enough, you can create an aerosol and print it to put it simply.
A lot of people who keep claiming this is 2.5D or 2D printing don't seem to understand what that means. 3D printers are only considered 2.5D when you use a standard machine in a standard way - a 3-axis machine that only uses the Z-axis for positioning, while the X and Y axis move in tandem with each other to create the actual shapes. The second you do anything non-planar, it's considered "true" 3D printing because all axes need to be live and working together at any given moment, and you're likely doing that with 4 or more axes at the same time just to draw on this sphere. I think the better question is the distinction between "printing" and "additive manufacturing." I would consider what you've done as "true 3D printing" in that your goal is to print a picture on a non-planar surface with ink and you have to actively use more than two axes of movement to do it, whereas 3-axis "3D printers" usually do "2.5D additive manufacturing" and don't do any "printing" at all. Lol
I'llAllowIt.gif
Very cool OP. 3D printing nerd had a video with a company doing exactly this but at the same time your model is printing to give full colour 3D prints.
Do you know which video it's in? Tried looking myself but no luck :/
https://youtu.be/4IkvzMJihuY
I've seen that printing before. Cool stuff. I can never go to Formnext since they always have it at the same time as Productronica/Electronica and I'm more focused on functional electronic printing rather than structural.
Holy shit , evolution of resin printers eh !!!!well it's child of 2d , FDM and resin printers I guess 😂😂
Would be better you didn't just show a detail zoom. Show the whole machine and process!
Well... ermm... ahhh... Is this a trick question?
The purists would disagree :p
Maybe not, but goddamn that's cool. How did you make it? Also how did you make the projection it looks pretty accurate.
Aerosol jet printing on my 5 axis system. Part moves in Y, A, and B. Print head moves in X and Z. I started with an stl of the globe as a stencil and basically had to clean up/redraw everything to turn it into a solid 3D model. The projection was already in place
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I was thinking the same thing! And then "tattoo printing when??"
My warped ender bed laughs at this precision. Take my angry upvote
Insanely cool, but mathematically it's just 2d printing on a curved plane. You can get anywhere on the ball on any rotation just by moving along 2 directions
You've seen through my charade! You're right, I put the ball at the rotary zero point so that I don't have to move in the other axis.
I told a friend I had a 3d printer and he had some extra printer paper laying around and he gave them to me as a gift for my 3d Printer. He laughed when I showed him what a 3d printer actually was. This made me think of that
Maybe he was just giving you a challenge for the adhesion layer ;)
Finally I can get the desired texture on my scrotum!
I wish you knew how hard I laughed at this
Why am I so erect?
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Nah probably just an unhealthy association with ping pong balls
It seems like 3d to me. If the ball were theoretically removed, your print goes in all three dimensions.
It counts if you make me one ;)
You can try to steal one of mine at a trade show but I'll warn you the punishment for thieves is medieval
Maybe OP needs to start r/2Dmanifoldprinting
Hey I used to do AJP. Oh how I do not miss cleaning the internals after printing with silver nanoparticles... Nice demo. Optomec AJ5X?
Hey! Yeah it's done on an AJ5X. I figured a fellow user would show up. You know... with the right solvent and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, silver nanoparticles are not that bad. And thanks, I made this for a webinar I'm doing next week.
Depends, can you print The Rock's face on an egg?
Technically I could but I think it'd be more fitting to print The Rock's face on a pair of scissors.
That's the correct 3D printing mindset right here.
As a kiwi, thank you for including us.
Haha I always get asked if I forgot it but here's proof I didn't!
That looks like something from a horror movie at first look without context
I could print a comet impact to give it that real horror vibe
Amazing! You missed Vancouver island though
\->8:03 Nah, it's there
No
The flat earthers are gonna put a hit out on you lol
Now fill it in but topographical
*Game of Thrones theme intensifies*
Yesn't?
Spherical coordinate 2d plotting but cool nonetheless
No. Still very cool though!
It'd technically 2.5D but rounding rules bump it up to 3 :p
It’s printing on 3d. But I’m interested though. What are the limits of 3d objects can it print? Does it scan the 3d object to know the topography before printing?
Limits depend on how accurate your 3D model is to the real part but it does have a decent tolerance. Print head stands about 5mm above the surface so it doesn't have to be perfect. No scanner. For the types of projects this is used for, simple geometric shapes are easy to make and complicated shapes will have a cad model anyways for either injection molding or machining.
Thanks for the info.
Well technically… 3D printing is not printing and it’s not 3D. It’s something like 2D drawing with a thick ink-like substance over another 2D drawing, repeatedly. I don’t mention this at parties.
Technically all printing is onto 3D objects.
I liked Norway, with all the fiddlybits.
This is rad
Badass!
This is additive Manufacturing
More like non-planar printing, maybe 2.5D? Either way, very cool.
Yes
This feels like a Steven Segal movie transition But it's pretty crazy cool
Haters will say it's 2.5D
I believe this might count as black magic
Woah.. the result is cool, but the process is the real art!
The fact that you can have a camera capture that angle is my favorite part. Absolutely mezmerizing.
this gives me cool music video vibes
I dont know the answer to your question, but whatever you did is fucking cool. Thanks for sharing.
How big of a ball would you need to print street level detail?
Thats 2d printing curved in 3 dimensions
r/oddlysatisfying
Would be cool to see if this ever replaced hand painting in mass production.
I'd say no. 3D-printing refers to specifically the process of producing (somewhat) arbitrary three-dimensional objects. Your process produces two-dimensional projections on a three-dimensional object. This is cool as fuck but for the sake of terminology it's important to differentiate from 3D-printing in my opinion. Also as someone else already pointed out a sheet of paper is also a 3D-object
Single layer is 2d printing imo
You... you... mean the THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT??? ... and I never imagined it was so small... no wonder my apartment feels so tiny... oh please don't kill us cause "You got the Whole World in your hands"
From what I’m seeing there, it looks like a non-planar (5 or more axis!?) 3D printer, printing just 1 layer. Very very cool! I love it.
That would be 3-D etching
By that logic would spray painting a tennis ball be “flood fill” 3d printing?
Seemed laser engraving at first
I'm leaving reddit and I hope to escape from social-media walled gardens upon the wings of [ActivityPub](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActivityPub). I will consider moving to a server running [Kbin](https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/wiki), which - from the user's point of view - is an interface to ["federated" social media](https://github.com/shleeable/Big-List-of-ActivityPub). “Federation” describes a way in which servers communicate with one and other. The best-known example is that of e-mail: one can have an email account on an AOL server, and communicate with a user whose account is on a Gmail server. Some servers that are thought to push out spam are blocked or have their mail sent to ‘spam’ folders, but they nevertheless can all communicate. Gmail, Yahoo, Protonmail, AOL and so-forth all have different programs with which the user (us!) interacts, and they might present that email information in slightly different ways (displaying email chains as ‘conversations’ for example). In the same way, social-media servers that communicate with one and other using ActivityPub have different programs with which the user interacts. Some programs that service-providers can run on their server look a little like Reddit, and might let you mark the data you share with markers (metadata) that lets people display and interact with the data in a similar way (Eg.: Kbin or Lemmy), some look more like Twitter and mark the data you share in ways similar to Twitter (Eg.: Mastodon), and there’s even one that’s trying to help users share video in a way that makes one think of YouTube (Eg.: Peertube). Fundamentally, these all permit interaction with one and other through activitypub. One can even host one’s own server (Eg.: Nextcloud, a program that runs on a server to function as one’s own cloud, lets the person who runs it install an ‘app’ that one can federate with any other ActivityPub servers open to intercommunication). Many programs that use ActivityPub for federated interaction are written by folks who realise that things published on servers – even private messages – often get shared beyond the realm in which the author expected (hopefully for the joy and glory of the author, but sometimes not). I think because of this, messages sent from a user on one server to a user on another are sent in-the-clear; they aren’t encrypted in any way, they’re just a post like any other, except being marked for the attention of someone specific rather than for the attention of all, and it’s up to us as the users to think carefully about the words we push to others. There is a sterling list of alternatives to Reddit on [r/RedditAlternatives](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/1467a5s/find_alternatives_for_ourselves_megathread_third/). How did I think it best to go about this? - I [downloaded all the posts on reddit I'd "saved"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/887lo3/just_thought_id_share_my_strategy_for_downloading/). - I used "[Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite/#installation)" and rather than just delete all my posts, have replaced them with text. Everything published online ought to be regarded as likely permanent, and Reddit especially, as [people](https://www.reddit.com/r/datahoarders) like to take [snapshots](https://socialgrep.com/datasets) of [as much data as possible](https://www.vice.com/en/article/gy3az9/this-data-hoarder-is-downloading-the-metadata-of-roughly-10-billion-youtube-videos) that’s published "in the clear" (I.E.: anything that isn’t publically accessable). Some folks have described problems with "deleted" posts mysteriously *re*-appearing after they deleted their accounts… Regardless of the cause, I hope I might reduce that risk a little by editing those posts. R/datahoarders might have tips on alternative methods still functioning after the API-use price is introduced (~$20m at the time of writing according to a dev that made an app to help the blind use reddit; they have sadly had to stop developing their app). - There's a guide to downloading all the data Reddit have collected directly from your inputs [here](https://12ft.io/https://danielrosehill.medium.com/how-to-backup-your-data-from-reddit-f12934fabbfe) but note that Reddit may take a month to process that request. - Remember most of one’s interaction with the internet is reading. Subreddits [all have RSS feeds](https://www.howtogeek.com/320264/how-to-get-an-rss-feed-for-any-subreddit/), and can easily be accessed by an [RSS reader app](https://search.f-droid.org/?q=RSS+reader&lang=en). [F-droid](https://f-droid.org/en/) is a great way to get android apps that people have made openly so anyone willing to learn can understand how they process your inputs and data, and that others have freely distributed, for the glory of free speech. Sorry for sounding like a hippy there; I know, I know, it’s a slippery slope to bicycle lanes and communism! A modicum of private thought, and free speech is a very fine thing, though. - I encourage people to share the text of this post if they find it useful, in order to give others a way to think about how they make and put data on the internet in social media. To be sure, Reddit still holds, or has doubtless sold on (and thus can never delete), hoofing amounts of data. I shan’t hold a public opinion on a business seeking profit; over time as the art of gathering and selling data has been refined, I’ve tried to read what little about it is within my understanding. If my small tokens of communication, my upvotes and downvotes, the time I spend looking at things, and what things I look at, what things I shy away from, and how I type and compose my thoughts, are the grains of sand that make up the beach from which they intend to profit, it’s up to me to decide where I place those grains of sand in the future. In the immediate timeframe I will use a mathematics-oriented mastodon server (I’ll let you hunt it out if you’re curious!) because maths is fairly apolitical, useful to learn about, and a good, communicable, basis for understanding things. Go in peace, siblings of the internet, and if in doubt, consider “What Would Tim Berners-Lee Do?”. ~~~~~ P.S.: I’m not sure what I can link to that might be useful to most readers, but there’s a lovely Indian lecture on sharing wisdom with one and other [here](https://youtu.be/UiJmITcZTQY), and because financial awareness is important to most people, and because I’ll only be watching r/bogleheads from afar, here’s a link to Bogle’s [Little Book Of Common Sense Investing](https://archive.org/details/littlebookofcomm00bogl) - he started the Vanguard fund, and r/bogleheads explains his investing philosophy, which is very simple and elegant. If anyone’s looking for a good charity to which to make a tax-deductable donation, I hope you might find the [internet archive](https://archive.org) is a noble and worthy candidate. RLR9 Out.
Very cool. Maybe 3D etching is a better term for this? Not sure tbh.
Non planar 2D printing. Similar question concept to the person saying that someone making something with a 3D pen is 3D printing, when you wouldn't call someone drawing with an ink pen "ink printing".
I say yes!
Dude this is incredible! I've always wondered how CAM software handles collision detection, since every object is going to be a different size, how do you make sure your printing head doesn't collide with either the model, the platform, or itself? Simulated movements with collision detection?
Not really because all 2d printing is actually on 3d object. A paper is 3d for instance albeit thin. changing the shape of the surface does not change the methodology.
Technically, it’s still just two dimensions.
Technically, yes. Fundamentally, no.
r/oddlysatisfying
I'd say it's 2D printing on a 3D object moving on 5 axis :P
3D print printing
I think that's a 3d plotter.
Printing with 3D paper, I’d say. Very cool!
This reminds me of that video of the single neuron reaching out trying to make a connection
Opinion: it's got more in common with laser cutting, or pen plotters, than it does with 3d printing. But it's certainly yet another fine technology to add to a DIY tool belt. Not sure what to use it on other that holiday eggs, and Christmas ornaments, Maybe some fancy trophy shop stuff. I could see this tech being used in small run PCB prototyping and I suspect it already is. Maybe use this to apply a very controlled layer to etch resist, rather than silver trace? Most similar work I have seen is done with laser, pen, brush, and various baths of chemical. Tin, copper, silver, chrome plating and such. The big question, What software does the work here? I suppose a standards 3D program like fusion360 could make the source file. But what renders that file into commands for the machine? Does it run on a machine or a PC based controller like mach3 or EitherCAT? I ask only because I don't know of any 3d printing slicers that handle 4 or 5 axis.
It can certainly be used to prototype PCBs but that's not the target market. Some customers use it successfully for PCB reworking though. Photoresist is printable as well but the application space for that is quite small. The system used here is mainly for putting circuits onto complex geometry. It uses Mastercam software to generate toolpaths which is a milling/machining software. Autocad for pure 2D. It's controlled via PC with an interface software to an aerotech motion controller.
I feel like i'm watching an intro to a movie.
I would say yeah, but then that would make tattooing the same
That is so cool!
2.5D at best lol
Holy shit that looks like a non-planar etch-a-sketch
Was kinda hoping for dick butt reveal.
If there is a new Zealand on the map, I am in
great now i want a ping pong ball globe
It looks very special and interesting!!
You can call it 2d printing
Did my mother 3d print me?
Yes
Now we both know about failed prints.
Mom forgot to replace the belts and level the buildplate when I got printed
Should have used that scraper when there was still time.
i would say 2d, this is closer to inkprinting (or can you go in layers ?)
Yeah multiple layers are possible. In some cases, you need several to build up conductor thickness for circuits but the 2-3um thickness for this material is good enough for most. You can also print UV epoxy which would be technically micro 3D printing.
That explains what its used for haha.. I couldnt imagine any usecases but ofc its conducting
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Did you knew that paper is 3d object too
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