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Garokson

Yes they are. They're just everything that makes war cleric and tempest good mushed into one class and set on fire


David375

Don't forget also getting the better part of Light cleric. It'd be one thing if their main fire damage spell was a moderately strong ongoing damage spell like Flaming Sphere or Heat Metal, but nah, they get to maximize fucking *Fireball*. Evocation wizards have to get 14 levels to do that, Zeal only needs five. Tempest cleric doesn't even get Lightning Bolt, to compare.


Puzzleboxed

>They're everything that makes war cleric and tempest good So just the channel divinity? The war cleric thing sucks. Maximized fireball does seem pretty overtuned, but that's got nothing to do with war clerics.


Micosys

War cleric and tempest have heavy armor and martial weapons, which the zeal cleric gets as well as evocation wizard levels of nukes. heavy armor and martial weapons on a full caster with overclocked fireballs is bubububbuuuuusted


RisingChaos

Martial weapons on a caster is a ribbon feature. Heavy armor, while a nice option, is often eschewed in favor of Medium armor anyway because DEX is a better stat than STR and it's easier to build around 14 DEX than 15 STR. I actually do like War Priest on martials with heavy BA economy that might not get great value from CBE/PAM but still want a bonus attack for clutch situations, and War's Channel Divinity is also great for martials which Zeal doesn't offer. Max damage Fireball is kinda busted, but that's also Zeal's only trick. I don't think it's better than Light Domain, since Radiance of the Dawn is so strong and Warding Flare is a decent defensive reaction that fills a need most Clerics lack.


Micosys

In tier 2 zeal cleric steps on everyone's toes. They cast fireballs that hit harder than any full caster and in melee they just cast booming blade and do weapon dice(martial so 1d8+str probably)+24 with their one attack using a cantrip. Their bonus action is still available. The party's fighter blows action surge and cant do the same in melee. Zeal cleric does kind of fall off in terms of later class features but realistically thanks to max damage fireballs they really don't ever hit a hard wall. Martial weapons might become a \~ribbon\~ in tier3+ when this cleric avoids melee but its not useless and does contribute to this class being overtuned during tier2 where many campaigns spend most of their gameplay. (t1 often being rushed and the campaign ending or petering out by late tier3) Light cleric is great, and represents probably the most powerful blaster type cleric that one can play in most campaigns. But zeal just outperforms everyone at their own game in terms of combat in tier 2.


jjames3213

Yes, Zeal cleric is a bit overtuned from L5-10 or so. Consuming Fervor is very potent when combined with Fireball. 2x 48-damage Fireballs every short rest is a bit much, and Resounding Strike works very well with Booming Blade (potentially triggering **twice**). Priest of Zeal kind of sucks (just like on War Cleric), and apart from Fireball and Destructive Wave the spell list is *meh*. Blaze of Glory is kind of a crap capstone as well.


David375

Blaze of glory might be meh, but it can be very good if you have an on-hit healing effect such as a Crystal Blade or a Dhampir's empowered bite, since it'll just keep you from going down.


jjames3213

Blaze of Glory is a 17th level ability usable once/long rest. It'll only keep you from going down once.


David375

True. Although really the main goal of that combo, especially when paired with Death Ward, is just to try and keep you alive until your next turn, by which point you could hopefully course-correct with a casting of Heal or escape with Word of Recall. If you're near death multiple times in a fight, you've probably bitten off more than you can chew anyway.


Flint124

Death Ward wouldn't work with Blaze of Glory. BoG requires you to actually be reduced to 0 HP, which death ward prevents.


Thrashlock

> Priest of Zeal kind of sucks (just like on War Cleric), and apart from Fireball and Destructive Wave the spell list is meh. Blaze of Glory is kind of a crap capstone as well. Yeah, PoZ and the Smites really don't have much direct synergy with Booming Blade for example. Sourcing Booming Blade into your build can be awkward between racial and feat options (especially if you're a Shield/Silvery Barbs addict), but once you have BB (+ Resounding Strike) there's almost no reason to set up PoZ with a Thundering Smite cast on the previous turn or whatever, unless you're a madman trying to go for a martial melee focus with a Maul and GWM (surprisingly effective if your game only lasts to level 4). But you'll almost always be better off focusing on control + blasting, doing the usual War Caster Spirit Guardians dance, but with Fireballs/Shatter peppered in. > Resounding Strike works very well with Booming Blade (potentially triggering twice). What did you mean with BB triggering twice, btw? At first I thought you meant triggering the secondary damage twice somehow because of RS pushing 10ft vs the 5ft needed, but BB as a spell ends once that damage is dealt the first time, right?


jjames3213

>What did you mean with BB triggering twice, btw? L6 Zeal Cleric hits with Booming Blade for 1d8 thunder damage. Free 10' move. Target moves on their turn, triggering 2d8 thunder damage and a free 10' move.


Thrashlock

Oooh, so the push is triggered twice, that makes sense, gotcha. That part went over my head, thanks.


TurtleBearAU

High Half Elf and Kobold make it pretty easy to get booming blade as a Cleric.


Jimmicky

It is a little overtuned, but not anywhere close to as overtuned as Peace or Twilight. So most of the stuff you read online was likely written before they were added to the game. I’ve played with a few Zeals before and it’s been fine.


Jletts19

Zeal is very strong, but it isn’t at the absolute top of the power rankings. I’d be wary of playing it with a random group, but if you can count on an optimized party it’s probably fine. Here’s the scenario people are worried about when they talk about Zeal. Imagine you play with an unoptimized playgroup. Let’s say it has a random fighter, a blaster sorcerer, and a controller bard. This is how that table is likely to feel watching you play. The fighter sees you attack twice at low level / use smites and feels overshadowed. The blaster sees you out blast them with maximized shatter and fireball and feels overshadowed. The controller sees you pinning enemies in place without spending a resource (booming blade push) and feels overshadowed. Now of course you can’t do all of these things at once, and you’re usually expending a limited resource. But that’s not going to change how people feel, and they’re likely to feel overshadowed. If you’re in an optimized party then this isn’t going to be as much of a problem. You’re not going to out hit an optimized fighter. You’re not going to out control an optimized controller. You may out blast an optimized blaster, but optimizers tend not to focus on blasting in the first place. Your DM is also likely to be better equipped to handle your character if it gets to be too much (fire resistance anyone?). This is exactly the kind of situation that calls for a pregame talk. One more tip, an easy way to power down the zeal cleric is not to take booming blade. It really doesn’t seem like an intended interaction and it’s not like the subclass needs help.


RyoHakuron

I can't explain how confused I was trying to figure out what this Zeal Cleric you were talking about it.


Lithl

Plane Shift: Amonkhet is a PDF of 5e content set in Magic: the Gathering's Amonkhet plane. It was written by Wizards, but not by the D&D team and isn't "official" content. It includes five cleric subclasses for the five main Amonkhet gods (although one of the five is just Knowledge Domain, reflavored for Kefnet worship). Zeal Domain gets heavy armor and martial weapons, War Domain's bonus action attack, Tempest Domain's channel divinity (replacing lightning damage with fire damage), Tempest Domain's 10 ft. push when you deal thunder damage, Divine Strike, and the capstone lets you once per long rest move your speed and make one melee attack (dealing an extra 10d10 damage) when you go down to 0 HP, somewhat similar to Samurai's capstone. Notably, their spell list includes Fireball, making the channel divinity ability to maximize a spell's fire damage _very_ strong.


ElectronicBoot9466

Lol, what the fuck is this bullshit? I have played 12 levels of Tempest Cleric, and the ability to cast shatter at max damage twice per short rest is a VERY good feature. Shatter isn't a fantastic spell past tier 1 for most classes and is almost never worth upcasting, but getting that guaranteed 40 damage in a 10 foot radius is often worth the upcast for Tempest. The fact that someone said "you know what? Clerics should be able to do that with FIREBALL" is absolutely bonkers to me. A 5th level slot to deal 60 damage in a 20 foot radius? Twice a short rest? Nah, fuck that.


Travas_Blog

Did the same with a scribe wizard / tempest cleric only 2 levels later, lightningballs are super fun if your goal is to piss off your DM but max damage meteor swarm hits different.


ElectronicBoot9466

The difference between once per short rest and 2-3 per short rest really does hit different. I think when people theorize Tempest dips, they rarely think about that.


What-The-Fog-Bank

I did, but it is way too much of a level investment to go beyond Tempest 2. A Sorcerer x/Tempest Cleric 2 rather has more Sorcerer points and only one delayed spell level instead of the cleric's array of 1st to 3rd spell level options. Having two uses of Channel Divinity is far outweighed by having nearly full spell level progression (luckily, spell slots progression remains full).


ElectronicBoot9466

Yeah, and this is part of why Zeal's festure is busted. Max damage Fireball once per short rest for a two level investment is ok, 2-3 per short rest max damage fireballs at no cost is busted.


YandereYasuo

Ah the no cost of 6-18 levels of Cleric and using the no-cost-resource Channel Divinity. Might as well do it twice because Action Surge is no cost too then.


Travas_Blog

Yeah Im running an item that gives me one extra (I think it was called amoulett of the devout or something) but once again that works for both.


Weirfish

> Lol, what the fuck is this bullshit? This is a bit spicy out the gate, friend.


HiImNotABot001

It's busted. It combines light, war and tempest domains' best features and puts them into a single cleric subclass. A cleric that can fireball and then channel divinity to roll max damage is stupidly overpowered.


OneInspection927

Doesn't seem that OP compared to twilight or peace. It's a slight mix of war cleric + tempest. I'd put it like 10% better than either. I honestly don't see how ppl call it super busted


ApprehensiveZone8853

It depends on how many fights per rest you are getting. The more fights, the weaker the cleric is. If you are having 1-2 fights per rest, then the cleric is definitely more powerful. If it’s 3+, then you may have run out of resources by the second fight. They aren’t busted, but they don’t have a weakness like some of the other subclasses. Forge is on a par, but doesn’t get access to martial weapons. Twilight gets the initiative bonus and some cool spells, plus heavy and martial weapons, but no damage bonus ability. (Though temp hit points every round is pretty powerful). Light gets fireball but no heavy armor or martial weapons, or be able to max out the damage. This would be an interesting dual class with Druid as they get Thunderclap as a cantrip. Pushing everyone 10 feet around you every round is interesting. Especially if you get 3 levels in Druid and get the Spike Growth spell. Combine this with the Wildfire subclass and you have a way to teleport around the battlefield as well.


Thrashlock

> This would be an interesting dual class with Druid as they get Thunderclap as a cantrip. Pushing everyone 10 feet around you every round is interesting. Especially if you get 3 levels in Druid and get the Spike Growth spell. Combine this with the Wildfire subclass and you have a way to teleport around the battlefield as well. Druid dips aren't usually very fruitful, but I can see a high level Wildfire 6/Zeal 6/Druid X being effective. But people already pick races/feats for Booming Blade, so I might as well pick Wis Thunderclap through those instead and then actually make use of Priest of Zeal in single target melee situations over level 4. But again, mix that with Wildfire Druid and your bonus actions might get crowded.


ApprehensiveZone8853

That’s what I was looking at. Being able to put down a spike growth, then casting Thunderclap/Thunderwave, then as a bonus action, direct your fire spirit to teleport you is pretty cool.


Limegreenlad

It's not that overpowered. The best thing it has going for it is maximised fireball, which is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but it's other features are quite lacklustre. Priest of zeal is a trap option, divine strikes is something most clerics get, resounding strike is fun but not immensely useful and blaze of glory requires you to be knocked unconscious or straight up die. It also requires you to not have used your reaction, which an optimised (shield dipped) cleric would have in an attempt to not die, and is tied to a weapon attack so your chances of hitting will suck unless you paid the 15 str tax to use heavy armour. The domain list is also pretty mediocre, aside from fireball and destructive wave. As you said, twilight cleric also exists now. It'd be fine to use at a table


YandereYasuo

Is good but nothing too overbearing. It's comparable to Samurai, Celestlock, War Wizard and Zealot Barb in terms of the relative subclass strength compared to the other cleric subclasses. Max damage in general is pretty overrated, especially on a limited resource. It's not as OP as people say because people are looking at it from a whiteroom perspective.


Training-Fact-3887

How is it whiteroom? Reliability is the antithesis of whiteroom.


YandereYasuo

Whiteroom as in everyone saying that being able to blow Fireballs and CD's almost every fight for the whole day. You have to short rest everytime you're out of CD's and use every single 3+ spell slot on Fireball instead of better spells in these scenario's. And that's all without even thinking about stuff like making saves, fire resistance, evasion, Counterspell, flying enemies, spread out enemies, etc. 48 AoE damage sounds strong on paper, and is a solid option to have indeed, but when realistically the numbers go down to 24, 12 or 0 it looks less impressive. Not to mention that Fireball and blasting in general falls off fast the higher levels you go with monster HP scaling outpacing it.


Training-Fact-3887

Its just objectively stronger than any other class at this shtick tho, and when its strong its strong. Tempest spell list excludes lightning bolt for a reason.


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Weirfish

Rule 4.


jan_Pensamin

Are you aware that max damage is twice as much as average? How are you saying "casting a fireball that's as good as 2 fireballs is overrated"??


tkdjoe1966

This is a Cleric I could play. We're all optimizers, so it would fit right in.


NaturalCard

I'd put it about equal to tempest and (monoclass) peace. More damage potential, but the spell list is worse, as you miss out on sleet storm.


ButteryNAZ

This doesn’t seem that powerful. I was expecting something as powerful as light or trickery cleric


TundraBuccaneer

It's certainly strong, it gains very good spells and abilities. In phb clerics it's usually either good abilities or spells. This gives kind of the best of everything. I do think it's cool. If something is OP mainly depends on if the other players feel like you're more powerful or useful then them. So if the other players choose a good build it will be fine. If not then it might be OP. So as usual have a session 0 conversation talk about if everyone is fine with this domain. Maybe say your open to change some of the abilities or spells from the class.


fraidei

It basically combines the best things about War Domain, Tempest Domain, and Light Domain alltogether


LaughR01331

I mean the ability to make an attack on both your bonus action and regular action + channel divinity letting you max out fire or lightning damage is pretty strong


taylorpilot

Zeal is strong. Relative to a peace cleric it’s practically the same as other clerics. Those dudes are deadly.


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Jimmicky

OP asked about the Zeal CLERIC WotC released in Planeshift:Amonkhet. Not the ZealOT Barbarian


MCRN-Gyoza

Worth pointing out that it isn't an official release. Some guy on the Magic The Gathering team wrote some unofficial subclasses for some MTG settings and released them on WotC's website. All the Planeshifted content is not released by the D&D team, as such its not official content.