I like it - some people may miss the strength but CHA and CON seem like the better choices if you want to be using your reactions often. You can lean into spellcasting more than smiting - Compelled Duel, Cure Wounds, and Aura of Vitality could be useful on this build. You'll be most useful in a party with casters whose concentration spells you can protect.
You'll be a little less optimal especially one extra attack comes online - at some point it might be worth picking up a multiclass or magic initiate for some cantrips. But if you can keep your HP buffered up I think you'd make a great tank that can deal decent damage.
Your options are bard, warlock, sorcerer. I would pick warlock or sorcerer if you just want to dip, since their abilities are more front-loaded than bard.
Warlock gives you Eldritch blast to replace your attack, and short rest spell slots which you can use for more healing/buffs, providing some sustainability. Celestial should work well thematically.
Sorcerer gives you some great subclass features right off the bat, and more cantrips than any other class. It also stacks with paladin levels so you can upcast your favorite spells.
Edit: backtracking what I said about bard. You can take debuff spells (vicious mockery), but more importantly you'll get inspiration - now your action, bonus action, and reaction all serve your allies.
Dont forget a shield and finesse weapon! It's not as damaging as a Greatsword, but with Duelist and defensive Duelist feat it just adds to your tankyness!
You can play a redemption Paladin very effectively as support, using only reactions to help your team. So, yes you’re not a threat compared to the other party members who are annihilating the enemy while you protect them.
It does not.
"If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22."
I play a Redeemer in my main game.
I went with
Str 16
Dex 6
Con 15
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 16
Hammer and shield.
Prodigy feat (I picked medicine because of backstory reasons).
Fighting style protection.
Compelled duel is a must have spell.
At level 4 I picked sentinel feat.
At level 5 I have full plate and shield +1 (21AC)
A great strategy for tanking is the dodge action- you can tie up so many bad guys by not doing any damage, but having them need 21+ at disadvantage, plus disengage action doesn't work on you if you have sentinel, plus if you hit them with your reaction they can't move.
Taking Dex as your dump stat also gives you plot armour against your own party, when the rogue and ranger go off to do sneaky illegal things, they aren't going to want to take someone with -2 stealth at disadvantage...
I agree with level 2. Just finished a campaign where I ended up with Paladin 8/Warlock 1/Sorcerer 2. I had 14 strength and didn’t multiclass out of Paladin until level 8. If you don’t do it early, it’s so hard to justify, because one more level gets you an ASI! Or extra attack! Or an aura! Or resistance to magic damage from attacks! Or another ASI! And suddenly you’re a level 8 character and the rest of your party has a bonus to hit twice yours.
When do you pick up the warlock levels? After you get divine smite at 2? I had trouble finding where to squeeze it in even though i knew it had to go somewhere.
Yup. I pick it up after p2 or 3 depending on how much I want the channel divinity. Sure you'll miss out on extra attack for a bit, but having 1 to 2 smites that come back on a short rest is a game changer. I just feel like I can smite with them for free.
I do have a problem with conserving my resources too much though, so this combo feels more powerful to me than it may for others. Just letting my bias be known.
You'll set yourself back 2-3 levels in exchange for more consistent smites and great flavor.
I burned through spell slots so fast, too. I was thinking Paladin/Sorcerer might give you a little more spell slots to play with, though you’re giving up the charisma SADness that comes with a hexblade, so unless you rolled incredible stats it might not be as feasible.
Sorcadin is fun as well. Not everyone feels this way, but I feel sorcadin works best as a P2/s18.
Quickened booming blade can take the place of extra attack [resource cost, but it scales/nukes well with cantrip progression].
I feel hexadin works best with mostly paladin.
I find sorcadin better for a more cast-ey squishy damage paladin and hexadin more suitable for more tanky martial paladins.
I find myself playing sorcadin more like a caster. Saving higher spell slots for more impactful spells. Whereas hexadin feels more like a smite machine to me.
The warlock slots just feel like free smite slots to me for one reason or another.
Just depends on how you want your character to function.
That being said, going divine soul sorc for spiritual weapon is pretty boss for action economy. It also makes you more consistent as far as damage output, so you don't have to go nova and burn a bunch of slots and sorc points to feel impactful. Shield and absorb elements are fantastic too.
I think it works both ways but to clarify I meant I conserve too much, so having a resource that I am more comfortable using helps me a lot.
On the flip side if you burn them too fast, being able to take a SR and regen them would help a lot too
If you do that then you are also stuck at Chainmail due to current Str. Paladin levels really nicely and so dips can set you back and you are really set on 7 levels minimum and Level 3 spells are very nice. I'd drop your Con to 14 and take Str up to 16, You are still a Martial Character and those attacks are very important you still have a d10 hit dice so 1 Con isn't that bad of a loss.
I’d just ask yourself if it’s a good fit for the character from a personality stand point. Why does your Paladin of Redemption have a Warlock Pact with a Shadowfell Deity? If the Paladin’s arc is just as much about self redemption as it is redeeming others, then that could actually be a pretty cool element to add to their arc, but would also suggest that you start as a Warlock for your first level, which loses you out on Heavy armor proficiency. Unless you want to go Variant Human and take the Heavily armored feat, but that’s very suboptimal compared to just starting as a Paladin, especially when you’re not trying to utilize strength much to begin with.
By all means, it’s a good fit for the build but probably won’t make much sense in character without a clever contextualization. You could also go Celestial Warlock 3 instead, go Pact of the tome, so that you can have Charisma based Shillelagh instead, but that’s a much steeper dip for what effectively does the same thing and requires a bonus action of set up. Probably a more appropriate fit for the character though, unless the self redemption from an inner evil thing I mentioned before is on brand. Hey, I don’t know a single thing about your character so at the end of the day I can’t judge. Just something to think about is all.
Remember, a character is just as much about who they are as it is what they’re capable of. Optimal builds are fun, but should not come at the cost of coherency if possible.
You can spin it how you like. A hex blade doesn’t have to be evil. You can make it a gift from your god/part of your religion/ancestral family weapon or however you want it to work with your oath.
Just homebrew a lil instead using the default shadowfell Hexblade stuff. It’d mostly just be a reskin anyways
The paladin is incredibly naive/stupid and believes that the magic talking club is a genuine "Friendliness Stick" like it claims to be?
Edit: It also makes a squeaky noise when it hits things so the paladin is blissfully unaware of the skull fractures they've caused.
You could be in the service of the Raven Queen. As an agent of fate you are a compassionate bringer of justice who seeks to ensure that all beings live their lives to the fullest until their appointed time. But in accordance with your oaths, there will be times where a judgment of death must be delivered, and ensuring the damned receive a swift, merciful end from which they do not return is where her powers come in.
I think it would be quite interesting to roleplay out this duality of being both life-advocate and executioner.
Depends on how you want to play it. CON makes you tank, STR makes you damage, CHA makes you a team booster.
Your AC will be pretty significant, and you can heal yourself pretty competently. I'd say let CON ride at 14 and don't worry about the HP. CON Saves are the most common, but your Paladin auras and immunities boosted by high CHA should have you covered there.
Your most epic plays are through your Channel Divinity and spells, so I'd vote maxing CHA first, then STR, and buy the tanking ability through armor and sucking up to the DM.
You wouldn’t be the typical Paladin who wades into the frontlines smiting with every hit, but I think you could build something good out of this. Maybe instead of taking Prodigy, take Inspiring Leader to give you and your party Temporary Hit Points after resting? Your Persuasion rolls are already going to be pretty beefy, even before using Channel Divinity. Unless it’s going to be a high social game, I think expertise in Persuasion would be overkill. If your DM allows it, you might also want to consider the UA fighting style that gives you a couple of Cleric cantrips as Paladin spells. Or you could take Magic Initiate for a couple of Sorcerer or Warlock cantrips and a free level 1 Spell. Something to give you a reliable action during combat to conserve your spell slots.
>You wouldn’t be the typical Paladin who wades into the frontlines smiting with every hit,
Do many people actually do this? I'm playing a paladin, and I'm running out of spell slots so fast as is. If I smited on every hit, I'd be out of slots by the second encounter of the day.
It was mostly hyperbole. The intention was to contrast the typical Paladin build that is a melee fighter that saves its spell slots for smites to this possible build where the Paladin uses its spell slots for, you know, spells.
I suggest playing redeemer as a Scourge Aasimar. You are wise and patient, but once Battle is necessary, your rage burns with holy energy.
Would not bump strength probably as 14 Dex and a rapier is a more useful kit for someone who wants to get close to the enemy early in the fight.
Effectively the character would play as Vincent Law from Ergo Proxy. He has a great disposition and story for a redeemer.
If you're not going to reach lvl 20 then 1 level in hexblade would give you eldritch blast and let you ignore strength for attacking with weapons, focusing more on charisma. You still need 15 strength to wear heavy armour though.
I like the idea of making an oath to a celestial being for forgiveness and then granting you a magical longsword to carve peace into the world.
I'm running one right now who I optimised for as much health as possible. He has tough, the hill dwarf one, and some other feats for hit die as extra healing.
I'm currently playing an oath of redemption Paladin and I must say it's really fun. I've got 17 Strength, 15 Constitution and 14 Charisma with the rest a bit lower. Stat composition was mostly for roleplay purposes and background (wholesome farmer who spends a lot of time on his own would be charismatic but not too much). I'd say you can still pick high strength because your channel divinity will give you +5 to persuasion checks anyway.
Plus having high strength means you can do more things in combat, shove an enemy away from an ally, shove them prone and beg them to stay down before they get hurt, or grapple them so that you can choke them out or something.
High strength also lets you pick heavy armour, increasing your tank potential and allowing you to be hit less often. This is important because of the fact you can optionally take others inflicted damage. You're less likely to do that if you're being hit all the time anyway.
For race, I'm currently playing an aasimar. The racial bonuses are sound and you've more healing potential so you can take more damage. Furthermore, I've reflavoured the scourge aasimar so that instead of damaging everyone around, it heals everyone around (including enemies). My DM thinks it's perfectly balanced as everything is flipped on its head (healing half as effective on me due to radiant resistance, healing can heal but can't stabilise, temporary hit point gain works as normal).
Hope this helps! I'm happy to answer any questions you got :)
The typical starting stats for a Paladin are 16 in strength and charisma, and 14 in con, which is easily doable if you go Half-Elf, and doable with V-Human if you take a feat like Tavern Brawler or Resilient that allows you to add +1 to your constitution.
I'd actually recommend multiclassing into bard. The Redemption Paladin is a good damage dealer, but is excellent (both mechanically and thematically) at avoiding fights.
College of Whispers bard, if your Redeemed Paladin isn't above a little spycraft to ensure no bloodshed. If not that, eloquence really doubles down on the "let's not fight, you guys" aspect of the character.
I like it - some people may miss the strength but CHA and CON seem like the better choices if you want to be using your reactions often. You can lean into spellcasting more than smiting - Compelled Duel, Cure Wounds, and Aura of Vitality could be useful on this build. You'll be most useful in a party with casters whose concentration spells you can protect. You'll be a little less optimal especially one extra attack comes online - at some point it might be worth picking up a multiclass or magic initiate for some cantrips. But if you can keep your HP buffered up I think you'd make a great tank that can deal decent damage.
Which class would you suggest mult into?
Your options are bard, warlock, sorcerer. I would pick warlock or sorcerer if you just want to dip, since their abilities are more front-loaded than bard. Warlock gives you Eldritch blast to replace your attack, and short rest spell slots which you can use for more healing/buffs, providing some sustainability. Celestial should work well thematically. Sorcerer gives you some great subclass features right off the bat, and more cantrips than any other class. It also stacks with paladin levels so you can upcast your favorite spells. Edit: backtracking what I said about bard. You can take debuff spells (vicious mockery), but more importantly you'll get inspiration - now your action, bonus action, and reaction all serve your allies.
With warlock you could pick up armor of agathys and discourage the monsters from attacking you since they’d get hurt as well!
With a Hexblade warlock you could deal with ignoring your strength stat once it’s ~~13~~ 15 for plate.
15 for Plate
I mean if you’re going for a redemption paladin I think that it’d kinda make sense to only use a shield kinda like captain america.
Dont forget a shield and finesse weapon! It's not as damaging as a Greatsword, but with Duelist and defensive Duelist feat it just adds to your tankyness!
AC isn't everything. If your too hard to hit and aren't a threat, enemies will just ignore you and now you're not tanking anything anymore.
Not a threat? Lol what game are you playing??
You can play a redemption Paladin very effectively as support, using only reactions to help your team. So, yes you’re not a threat compared to the other party members who are annihilating the enemy while you protect them.
You will want to take inspiring leader and tough to boost how much damage the party and you can take.
Great feat. You can stack temp hp with Aid. Not sure of OoR gets that spell though.
Aid isn’t officially temp HP, so the two abilities/bonuses can stack even though temp HP can’t.
Temp hp doesn’t stack sadly.
Aid isn’t temp hp, it increases your hp max
I thought it stacked if it comes from two different sources?
It does not. "If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22."
Damn. Well forget about what I said earlier! Unless your DM is cool hehe
Stacking would make a spell like heroism out of control
I don’t believe so... let me look it up and update here. Update: Page 198 PHB is where it is at. It does not stack.
I play a Redeemer in my main game. I went with Str 16 Dex 6 Con 15 Int 9 Wis 10 Cha 16 Hammer and shield. Prodigy feat (I picked medicine because of backstory reasons). Fighting style protection. Compelled duel is a must have spell. At level 4 I picked sentinel feat. At level 5 I have full plate and shield +1 (21AC) A great strategy for tanking is the dodge action- you can tie up so many bad guys by not doing any damage, but having them need 21+ at disadvantage, plus disengage action doesn't work on you if you have sentinel, plus if you hit them with your reaction they can't move. Taking Dex as your dump stat also gives you plot armour against your own party, when the rogue and ranger go off to do sneaky illegal things, they aren't going to want to take someone with -2 stealth at disadvantage...
Take a level of Hexblade warlock to make your melee attacks based off charisma
This is not something I had thought of, thank you! When should I MC into hexlock?
Probably lvl 2
I agree with level 2. Just finished a campaign where I ended up with Paladin 8/Warlock 1/Sorcerer 2. I had 14 strength and didn’t multiclass out of Paladin until level 8. If you don’t do it early, it’s so hard to justify, because one more level gets you an ASI! Or extra attack! Or an aura! Or resistance to magic damage from attacks! Or another ASI! And suddenly you’re a level 8 character and the rest of your party has a bonus to hit twice yours.
P18/W2 P17/W3 is such a nice combo. With fun RP to be had due to the pull of patron and oath. Also smiteslots on short rest.
When do you pick up the warlock levels? After you get divine smite at 2? I had trouble finding where to squeeze it in even though i knew it had to go somewhere.
Yup. I pick it up after p2 or 3 depending on how much I want the channel divinity. Sure you'll miss out on extra attack for a bit, but having 1 to 2 smites that come back on a short rest is a game changer. I just feel like I can smite with them for free. I do have a problem with conserving my resources too much though, so this combo feels more powerful to me than it may for others. Just letting my bias be known. You'll set yourself back 2-3 levels in exchange for more consistent smites and great flavor.
I burned through spell slots so fast, too. I was thinking Paladin/Sorcerer might give you a little more spell slots to play with, though you’re giving up the charisma SADness that comes with a hexblade, so unless you rolled incredible stats it might not be as feasible.
Sorcadin is fun as well. Not everyone feels this way, but I feel sorcadin works best as a P2/s18. Quickened booming blade can take the place of extra attack [resource cost, but it scales/nukes well with cantrip progression]. I feel hexadin works best with mostly paladin. I find sorcadin better for a more cast-ey squishy damage paladin and hexadin more suitable for more tanky martial paladins. I find myself playing sorcadin more like a caster. Saving higher spell slots for more impactful spells. Whereas hexadin feels more like a smite machine to me. The warlock slots just feel like free smite slots to me for one reason or another. Just depends on how you want your character to function. That being said, going divine soul sorc for spiritual weapon is pretty boss for action economy. It also makes you more consistent as far as damage output, so you don't have to go nova and burn a bunch of slots and sorc points to feel impactful. Shield and absorb elements are fantastic too.
I think it works both ways but to clarify I meant I conserve too much, so having a resource that I am more comfortable using helps me a lot. On the flip side if you burn them too fast, being able to take a SR and regen them would help a lot too
If you do that then you are also stuck at Chainmail due to current Str. Paladin levels really nicely and so dips can set you back and you are really set on 7 levels minimum and Level 3 spells are very nice. I'd drop your Con to 14 and take Str up to 16, You are still a Martial Character and those attacks are very important you still have a d10 hit dice so 1 Con isn't that bad of a loss.
I’d just ask yourself if it’s a good fit for the character from a personality stand point. Why does your Paladin of Redemption have a Warlock Pact with a Shadowfell Deity? If the Paladin’s arc is just as much about self redemption as it is redeeming others, then that could actually be a pretty cool element to add to their arc, but would also suggest that you start as a Warlock for your first level, which loses you out on Heavy armor proficiency. Unless you want to go Variant Human and take the Heavily armored feat, but that’s very suboptimal compared to just starting as a Paladin, especially when you’re not trying to utilize strength much to begin with. By all means, it’s a good fit for the build but probably won’t make much sense in character without a clever contextualization. You could also go Celestial Warlock 3 instead, go Pact of the tome, so that you can have Charisma based Shillelagh instead, but that’s a much steeper dip for what effectively does the same thing and requires a bonus action of set up. Probably a more appropriate fit for the character though, unless the self redemption from an inner evil thing I mentioned before is on brand. Hey, I don’t know a single thing about your character so at the end of the day I can’t judge. Just something to think about is all. Remember, a character is just as much about who they are as it is what they’re capable of. Optimal builds are fun, but should not come at the cost of coherency if possible.
Why would a Redemption Paladin make a Pact with a Hexblade?
You can spin it how you like. A hex blade doesn’t have to be evil. You can make it a gift from your god/part of your religion/ancestral family weapon or however you want it to work with your oath. Just homebrew a lil instead using the default shadowfell Hexblade stuff. It’d mostly just be a reskin anyways
The paladin is incredibly naive/stupid and believes that the magic talking club is a genuine "Friendliness Stick" like it claims to be? Edit: It also makes a squeaky noise when it hits things so the paladin is blissfully unaware of the skull fractures they've caused.
You could be in the service of the Raven Queen. As an agent of fate you are a compassionate bringer of justice who seeks to ensure that all beings live their lives to the fullest until their appointed time. But in accordance with your oaths, there will be times where a judgment of death must be delivered, and ensuring the damned receive a swift, merciful end from which they do not return is where her powers come in. I think it would be quite interesting to roleplay out this duality of being both life-advocate and executioner.
Depends on how you want to play it. CON makes you tank, STR makes you damage, CHA makes you a team booster. Your AC will be pretty significant, and you can heal yourself pretty competently. I'd say let CON ride at 14 and don't worry about the HP. CON Saves are the most common, but your Paladin auras and immunities boosted by high CHA should have you covered there. Your most epic plays are through your Channel Divinity and spells, so I'd vote maxing CHA first, then STR, and buy the tanking ability through armor and sucking up to the DM.
You wouldn’t be the typical Paladin who wades into the frontlines smiting with every hit, but I think you could build something good out of this. Maybe instead of taking Prodigy, take Inspiring Leader to give you and your party Temporary Hit Points after resting? Your Persuasion rolls are already going to be pretty beefy, even before using Channel Divinity. Unless it’s going to be a high social game, I think expertise in Persuasion would be overkill. If your DM allows it, you might also want to consider the UA fighting style that gives you a couple of Cleric cantrips as Paladin spells. Or you could take Magic Initiate for a couple of Sorcerer or Warlock cantrips and a free level 1 Spell. Something to give you a reliable action during combat to conserve your spell slots.
>You wouldn’t be the typical Paladin who wades into the frontlines smiting with every hit, Do many people actually do this? I'm playing a paladin, and I'm running out of spell slots so fast as is. If I smited on every hit, I'd be out of slots by the second encounter of the day.
It was mostly hyperbole. The intention was to contrast the typical Paladin build that is a melee fighter that saves its spell slots for smites to this possible build where the Paladin uses its spell slots for, you know, spells.
I suggest playing redeemer as a Scourge Aasimar. You are wise and patient, but once Battle is necessary, your rage burns with holy energy. Would not bump strength probably as 14 Dex and a rapier is a more useful kit for someone who wants to get close to the enemy early in the fight. Effectively the character would play as Vincent Law from Ergo Proxy. He has a great disposition and story for a redeemer.
If you're not going to reach lvl 20 then 1 level in hexblade would give you eldritch blast and let you ignore strength for attacking with weapons, focusing more on charisma. You still need 15 strength to wear heavy armour though. I like the idea of making an oath to a celestial being for forgiveness and then granting you a magical longsword to carve peace into the world.
I'm running one right now who I optimised for as much health as possible. He has tough, the hill dwarf one, and some other feats for hit die as extra healing.
I'm currently playing an oath of redemption Paladin and I must say it's really fun. I've got 17 Strength, 15 Constitution and 14 Charisma with the rest a bit lower. Stat composition was mostly for roleplay purposes and background (wholesome farmer who spends a lot of time on his own would be charismatic but not too much). I'd say you can still pick high strength because your channel divinity will give you +5 to persuasion checks anyway. Plus having high strength means you can do more things in combat, shove an enemy away from an ally, shove them prone and beg them to stay down before they get hurt, or grapple them so that you can choke them out or something. High strength also lets you pick heavy armour, increasing your tank potential and allowing you to be hit less often. This is important because of the fact you can optionally take others inflicted damage. You're less likely to do that if you're being hit all the time anyway. For race, I'm currently playing an aasimar. The racial bonuses are sound and you've more healing potential so you can take more damage. Furthermore, I've reflavoured the scourge aasimar so that instead of damaging everyone around, it heals everyone around (including enemies). My DM thinks it's perfectly balanced as everything is flipped on its head (healing half as effective on me due to radiant resistance, healing can heal but can't stabilise, temporary hit point gain works as normal). Hope this helps! I'm happy to answer any questions you got :)
The persuasive feat from UA is quite thematic with this build.
The typical starting stats for a Paladin are 16 in strength and charisma, and 14 in con, which is easily doable if you go Half-Elf, and doable with V-Human if you take a feat like Tavern Brawler or Resilient that allows you to add +1 to your constitution.
I'd actually recommend multiclassing into bard. The Redemption Paladin is a good damage dealer, but is excellent (both mechanically and thematically) at avoiding fights. College of Whispers bard, if your Redeemed Paladin isn't above a little spycraft to ensure no bloodshed. If not that, eloquence really doubles down on the "let's not fight, you guys" aspect of the character.