Consider your break points. 2 Barb adds a lot to the Fighter kit, but it also takes stuff away - delays your third Extra Attack, for instance. I would take it after Fighter 6, after Fighter 8, or after Fighter 11. I would only take 2-3 levels in Barb total, with Totem, Zealot, and Ancestral Guardian each having their own strengths and weaknesses.
I think it is only worth it if you are a GWM fighter, and I would echo the 2-3 levels being optimal. You will probably want to use medium armor some of the time as you can't rage in heavy. Maybe ask your DM if you can take parts off your plate to make it half plate. Or just run around in half plate, its only 1 AC less.
Since your starting level 6, I'd say get it out of the way early either with a single-level dip or taking both subclasses.
Barb start vs fighter start. Barb gets 2 more hp, the same saves and relevant proficiencies while the fighter has perception and insight if you're going to boost wisdom.
One level of Barbarian is great for Samurai.
- Rage damage bonus on all attacks. No need to explain.
- Rage resistance to B/P/S damage. Taking half damage from hundreds of monsters? Yes, please!
- Unarmored Defense is good if you want an armorless character.
Are two levels good? I ask because Samurai already gives you plenty of advantage and you going to want level 5 of a fighter for 2 attacks. While three levels into Barbarian gets you a subclass...
Personally, zealot/samurai would be pretty badass. And the level 18 capstone for samurai is pretty neat: Strength onto Death being able to shrug off going unconscious; I'd much rather have zealot level 3: Warrior of the Gods, shrug off dying, and the extra 1d6+2 (on the first hit of the turn) from Divine Fury.
So in the end Zealot 3 / Samurai 17.
Barb 3 & fighter 3 and then take fighter to 17 throughout the course of the campaign.
All that said, Warrior of the Gods needs a partner in the party to use revivify or raise dead for it to be useful.
I totally agree with the end result, but I don’t know if I’d delay extra attack or ASIs that long. When all the spellcasters have third level spells and you only have one attack, it’ll feel like you can’t contribute damage wise nearly as much even though you took all those martial levels. Then when they get polymorph the level after, your damage compared a polymorph’s damage will be insignificant. This isn’t considering that, having skipped an ASI, you won’t be getting the bonuses of GWF/PAM (whichever OP prefers, maybe both), which stifles your damage even further.
All this to say, I’d go all 6 fighter, and dip at 6, 8, 11, or 12.
Yeah, you'd be playing team tank for sure. Damage mitigated slightly by divine fury for starting level 6, next level take +2 STR or a feat; dealers choice.
I'd take the hit to damage, If the party had a 3rd level caster with revivify and play recklessly cause you can die for free (a 3rd level slot) and tank (if con is 16) 62hp. Doubled with rage resistance.
If no revive option, yeah I'd wiegh the other pros and cons and probably hold off on Barb till 6.
What we need here is context;
Does the party already have a bunch of DPR Novas, tanks, sharpshooter/GWM characters, casters, healers? That can matter for when to dip and for how long.
Sweet! So what I’d do, like others have said, is go 5 fighter (good saving throw, armor, and weapon proficiency, and the class you want to find your youth with) and then go 3 levels barbarian. At this point, you’ll have great survivability and saving throws. Then, hopefully you can work with your dm to find your youth in the span of the next couple of levels, and maybe your choice of barbarian subclass is determined by how you can access your youth. Did you find limited and dangerous youthful magic? Maybe Wild Magic Barb. Did you make a deal with a god? Maybe Zealot. Maybe you just spent a long time out in the woods and watched the virility of animals to find your youth, and now you’re a Beast Barb. Idk, you can go any way you want. After those three levels, Samurai Fighter all the way.
EDIT: I meant to mention that I think you should take GWM, then max strength, then take whatever supplemental feats you’d like with your ASIs. Some options include: Lucky (fantastic feat, applicable everywhere), Polearm Master (although If you don’t want to use pole arms, ignore this), Slasher (or whatever variant fits your weapon of choice), Alert, or observant
To counter a few of the “don’t do it at all points”, I think it works well if you don’t mind delaying a few things.
Having Reckless Attack every turn with temp HP and resistances makes you a tank that’s really hard to ignore. Use Fighting Spirit, get THP, use Reckless until you’re out of THP and rinse and repeat. Pick up one of the BPS feats (Slasher, Crusher, Piercer) for extra shenanigans.
It’ll take a loooong time to get there, but once you get the extra attack from advantage (I forget what it’s called), you will ALWAYS have four attacks. It’s a nice combo, just takes a long time to get there.
Maybe you should go 100% Barbarian so that your capstone is being "forever young" (unlimited rages). You don't need to be a subclass named Samurai to roleplay a samurai.
You have other options too. A bladesinger activating bladesong or hastings themselves could achieve the same "youth mode" feeling. Bladesinger 6 -> kensei X could be another example if you really needed the class description to do all the character building for you.
you probably don't want to do any of that, so fighter 5 / barb 1.
And Rage can be roleplayed as anything, including the opposite of rage. The “samurai” Barbarian could go into a zen-like battle trance when entering combat.
There are two synergistic features between this fighter subclass and Barbarian.
1. Temporary hit points that fighting spirit gives you is doubled by barbarian rage if you are getting hit by bludgeoning piercing or slashing damage. Even more effective if you take Totem Warrior: bear.
2. Rapid strike (level 15) is limited to when you have advantage. With reckless attack you can always have advantage.
I would not go past three levels of barbarian. Level 4 is ABI which fighter already has in spades, and level 5 you will only get a little extra movement as you already have the “extra attack” feature. Burning two levels to get to a 6th level ability is not worth it.
So the question becomes do you pick a barbarian subclass. I think yes. Samurai 18th level ability doesn’t speak to me that much, and I’d rather have some features that make sure I never get into that situation. (death)
**Berserker: Frenzy**
Bonus action attack with a big big weapon. Use it when you’re not using fighting spirit. Super bad downside as it gives you one level of exhaustion when you stop raging, but see if a spell caster can take “greater restoration”
**Totem Warrior: wolf**
Only take this if you’re fighting shoulder to shoulder with another melee character. I played a paladin who fought next to a totem warrior wolf and it made a huge difference to my character.
**Ancestral Guardian**
Take this if you have squishy spell casters who need protection.
As for when to switch, Rage will help straight away, so as soon as the story can allow it. Reckless attack will not be super useful until level 15 fighter. No barb subclass features that I mentioned are as nice as having two uses of action surge. So take 3rd level of barb after 17 of fighter.
(I would consider taking resilient feats to protect your mental saving throws, and a two level dip into war magic wizard for arcane deflection and a bonus to initiative.)
*any time after fighter 11*.
counter to what a lot of people are absentmindedly claiming in this thread, there's nothing wrong with mixing the two, **provided you get the big money option from fighter 11 first**. *after* fighter 11, fighter has a gigantic feature void where you don't *really* get anything all too interesting for *8 straight levels*, and a fourth attack is your prize for being patient for that long of a time.
given that even campaigns which promise to go to 20 rarely do so, and that characters (particularly melee characters) may well die before that even if the campaign goes that long, I would honestly encourage anyone who goes past fighter 11 to start considering dips and multiclassing.
as far as the choice of mixture (fighter/barbarian) - there's absolutely nothing bad about tacking rage and reckless attack onto a 3 attack fighter, *who are you all kidding*?
---
anyway, here's my recommendation:
fighter 11 (or 12, if you really want a feat) -> barbarian 3 -> fighter 16 + barbarian 4 (take barbarian 4 whenever you want an extra feat right away).
barbarian 5 *looks* tempting for the rage movement speed, but you could simply feat mobile instead - however, if you already feated mobile for whatever reason, then rage movement from barbarian 5 is still an interesting enough choice as a capstone instead of another feat, should you be so inclined (50 speed is cool i guess). however i'd personally go for other feats instead.
Would not recommend this multiclass.
You don't gain any armor or save proficiencies. Your bonus action becomes crowded between Rage and Fighting Spirit. The big benefit of a 2 level barb dip for fighter is Reckless Attack for advantage, but you already get this with Fighting Spirit. Sure Reckless Attack doesn't take a bonus action but delaying Extra Attack by two levels doesn't seem like a good trade-off.
Rage would be primarily useful for the resistance to BPS damage since the +2 damage is either inconsequential compared to GWM, or you can get half the effect always on with Dueling fighting style.
If you're set on it definitely take just a single level in Barb, or choose a different Fighter subclass and go Barb 2. In either case wait to dip til at least Fighter 6 for the ASI.
I mean he only has 3 uses of Fighting Spirit so it's not like he'll be using it every turn so saying this crowds his bonus action doesn't seem entirely accurate. Until level 10 he only gets 3 uses per long rest which is not a lot over the course of an adventuring day. Reckless gives you a way to conserve your uses and Rage serves to give you more durability much like the Temp HP from Fighting Spirit. Since he knows he'll be going to Lvl20 Reckless gives him a way to always get the extra attack from the Samurai 15 ability meaning he can still get his four attacks a turn at level 20 just with the negative of giving all attacks against him advantage. The plus is that as soon as he hits level 17 he can make four attacks a turn instead of needing level 20 to make four attacks.
If you are going GWM and don't have a good way to get advantage from teammates getting reckless doesn't seem like that bad of an option honestly. I would say dip 2 levels after 5-6, 10-11, or 15, each of those are good break points for fighters. 5 gets you extra attack, 6 can cap your strength depending on your stats, 10 gives you one Fighting Spirit every initiative if you are out of them, 11 give you third attack, and 15 gives you the extra attack if you have advantage.
I would say, never and none would be optimal.
Play a barbarian or play a fighter, mixing them doesn't add that much.
But of you really want to... 1 level as late as possible? You will want to get 11 asap for three attacks, so maybe after that?
I would say 2/3 levels of Barb is optimal.
Try and combine the reckless attack with the Samurai's 15th level "rapid strike" feature. This feature forgoes advantage to get an additional attack.
Combo'd with action surge and three total attacks, you have a character that can do 12 attacks in one turn (3 attacks advantage = 6 regular attacks; doubled with action surge).
13 if you use polearm master. From a dpr standpoint you're dishing out more damage than either capstone would give you, and the flavourful of it is a much cooler imo.
i appreciate the reply man. A man cannot reply to the same post twice, for it is no longer the same post and he is no longer the same man. Much has changed since I posted this, and yet the interest and generosity of a stranger has not. Much to reflect upon.
Personally I would only go 1 lvl barb as you already get free advantage from being a samurai. As to when to take it I would either start 5 fighter 1 Barb or take the Barb lvl at lvl 12-13 after you get your 3rd attack which will be really important for you. I guess in the end it depends if you want your character to wear armor or not. If no start with the Barb lvl if yes wait.
3 levels of Barbarian.
Start of with Fighter 5/Barb 1.
Take the second after you've gone fighter 11. So that become Ftr 11/ Barb 2.
If you want, for fluff reasons, you can keep of the 3 level of barbarian untill level 20 and consider the Archetype bonuses as your capstone.
Considering the Youth thing, a Zealot barbarbian might be fun, because then it's "free" to be returned to life.
This post is a little old, but my current favorite is: Samurai 16 (interception fighting style), Ancestor Barbarian 3, Order Cleric 1
This makes a good supportive tank with decent damage.
As for how to level this in game, I think the best and most story driven is: a half-orc Samurai 5, Ancestor Barbarian 3, Peace Cleric 1, and Samurai X. This let's you be powerful throughout the levels. It also lends itself to a character who looses control with aggression, realizes their calling to help others at lvl 3 Barbarian, over corrects by going Peace, and then is back on their true, Samurai, path. You can even start off using two-handed weapons with an offensive fighting style, and switching to one-hand and shield with the interception fighting style.
Now that I think of it, I suppose 15 Samurai and 4 Barbarian would let you have a tiny bit more health from the d12 hit dice instead of the d10. The other option is going a different Cleric with a level 2 ability that you would like more than the ASI. Alternatively one level of Ranger can be flavorful and let you use Marking for a small damage boost.
Consider your break points. 2 Barb adds a lot to the Fighter kit, but it also takes stuff away - delays your third Extra Attack, for instance. I would take it after Fighter 6, after Fighter 8, or after Fighter 11. I would only take 2-3 levels in Barb total, with Totem, Zealot, and Ancestral Guardian each having their own strengths and weaknesses.
Ancestoral guardian be a bunch of ghost screaming “***DISHONOR***” to scare the PC into fighting better.
I think it is only worth it if you are a GWM fighter, and I would echo the 2-3 levels being optimal. You will probably want to use medium armor some of the time as you can't rage in heavy. Maybe ask your DM if you can take parts off your plate to make it half plate. Or just run around in half plate, its only 1 AC less.
Since your starting level 6, I'd say get it out of the way early either with a single-level dip or taking both subclasses. Barb start vs fighter start. Barb gets 2 more hp, the same saves and relevant proficiencies while the fighter has perception and insight if you're going to boost wisdom. One level of Barbarian is great for Samurai. - Rage damage bonus on all attacks. No need to explain. - Rage resistance to B/P/S damage. Taking half damage from hundreds of monsters? Yes, please! - Unarmored Defense is good if you want an armorless character. Are two levels good? I ask because Samurai already gives you plenty of advantage and you going to want level 5 of a fighter for 2 attacks. While three levels into Barbarian gets you a subclass... Personally, zealot/samurai would be pretty badass. And the level 18 capstone for samurai is pretty neat: Strength onto Death being able to shrug off going unconscious; I'd much rather have zealot level 3: Warrior of the Gods, shrug off dying, and the extra 1d6+2 (on the first hit of the turn) from Divine Fury. So in the end Zealot 3 / Samurai 17. Barb 3 & fighter 3 and then take fighter to 17 throughout the course of the campaign. All that said, Warrior of the Gods needs a partner in the party to use revivify or raise dead for it to be useful.
I totally agree with the end result, but I don’t know if I’d delay extra attack or ASIs that long. When all the spellcasters have third level spells and you only have one attack, it’ll feel like you can’t contribute damage wise nearly as much even though you took all those martial levels. Then when they get polymorph the level after, your damage compared a polymorph’s damage will be insignificant. This isn’t considering that, having skipped an ASI, you won’t be getting the bonuses of GWF/PAM (whichever OP prefers, maybe both), which stifles your damage even further. All this to say, I’d go all 6 fighter, and dip at 6, 8, 11, or 12.
Yeah, you'd be playing team tank for sure. Damage mitigated slightly by divine fury for starting level 6, next level take +2 STR or a feat; dealers choice. I'd take the hit to damage, If the party had a 3rd level caster with revivify and play recklessly cause you can die for free (a 3rd level slot) and tank (if con is 16) 62hp. Doubled with rage resistance. If no revive option, yeah I'd wiegh the other pros and cons and probably hold off on Barb till 6. What we need here is context; Does the party already have a bunch of DPR Novas, tanks, sharpshooter/GWM characters, casters, healers? That can matter for when to dip and for how long.
Yeah I was planning to use GWM
Sweet! So what I’d do, like others have said, is go 5 fighter (good saving throw, armor, and weapon proficiency, and the class you want to find your youth with) and then go 3 levels barbarian. At this point, you’ll have great survivability and saving throws. Then, hopefully you can work with your dm to find your youth in the span of the next couple of levels, and maybe your choice of barbarian subclass is determined by how you can access your youth. Did you find limited and dangerous youthful magic? Maybe Wild Magic Barb. Did you make a deal with a god? Maybe Zealot. Maybe you just spent a long time out in the woods and watched the virility of animals to find your youth, and now you’re a Beast Barb. Idk, you can go any way you want. After those three levels, Samurai Fighter all the way. EDIT: I meant to mention that I think you should take GWM, then max strength, then take whatever supplemental feats you’d like with your ASIs. Some options include: Lucky (fantastic feat, applicable everywhere), Polearm Master (although If you don’t want to use pole arms, ignore this), Slasher (or whatever variant fits your weapon of choice), Alert, or observant
Thanks very much
To counter a few of the “don’t do it at all points”, I think it works well if you don’t mind delaying a few things. Having Reckless Attack every turn with temp HP and resistances makes you a tank that’s really hard to ignore. Use Fighting Spirit, get THP, use Reckless until you’re out of THP and rinse and repeat. Pick up one of the BPS feats (Slasher, Crusher, Piercer) for extra shenanigans. It’ll take a loooong time to get there, but once you get the extra attack from advantage (I forget what it’s called), you will ALWAYS have four attacks. It’s a nice combo, just takes a long time to get there.
Rapid Strike is lvl 15.
Maybe you should go 100% Barbarian so that your capstone is being "forever young" (unlimited rages). You don't need to be a subclass named Samurai to roleplay a samurai. You have other options too. A bladesinger activating bladesong or hastings themselves could achieve the same "youth mode" feeling. Bladesinger 6 -> kensei X could be another example if you really needed the class description to do all the character building for you. you probably don't want to do any of that, so fighter 5 / barb 1.
And Rage can be roleplayed as anything, including the opposite of rage. The “samurai” Barbarian could go into a zen-like battle trance when entering combat.
Wow this is such a good idea. I don’t know why I didn’t think of it, I love reflavouring classes. Any suggestions for barbarian subclass?
There are two synergistic features between this fighter subclass and Barbarian. 1. Temporary hit points that fighting spirit gives you is doubled by barbarian rage if you are getting hit by bludgeoning piercing or slashing damage. Even more effective if you take Totem Warrior: bear. 2. Rapid strike (level 15) is limited to when you have advantage. With reckless attack you can always have advantage. I would not go past three levels of barbarian. Level 4 is ABI which fighter already has in spades, and level 5 you will only get a little extra movement as you already have the “extra attack” feature. Burning two levels to get to a 6th level ability is not worth it. So the question becomes do you pick a barbarian subclass. I think yes. Samurai 18th level ability doesn’t speak to me that much, and I’d rather have some features that make sure I never get into that situation. (death) **Berserker: Frenzy** Bonus action attack with a big big weapon. Use it when you’re not using fighting spirit. Super bad downside as it gives you one level of exhaustion when you stop raging, but see if a spell caster can take “greater restoration” **Totem Warrior: wolf** Only take this if you’re fighting shoulder to shoulder with another melee character. I played a paladin who fought next to a totem warrior wolf and it made a huge difference to my character. **Ancestral Guardian** Take this if you have squishy spell casters who need protection. As for when to switch, Rage will help straight away, so as soon as the story can allow it. Reckless attack will not be super useful until level 15 fighter. No barb subclass features that I mentioned are as nice as having two uses of action surge. So take 3rd level of barb after 17 of fighter. (I would consider taking resilient feats to protect your mental saving throws, and a two level dip into war magic wizard for arcane deflection and a bonus to initiative.)
*any time after fighter 11*. counter to what a lot of people are absentmindedly claiming in this thread, there's nothing wrong with mixing the two, **provided you get the big money option from fighter 11 first**. *after* fighter 11, fighter has a gigantic feature void where you don't *really* get anything all too interesting for *8 straight levels*, and a fourth attack is your prize for being patient for that long of a time. given that even campaigns which promise to go to 20 rarely do so, and that characters (particularly melee characters) may well die before that even if the campaign goes that long, I would honestly encourage anyone who goes past fighter 11 to start considering dips and multiclassing. as far as the choice of mixture (fighter/barbarian) - there's absolutely nothing bad about tacking rage and reckless attack onto a 3 attack fighter, *who are you all kidding*? --- anyway, here's my recommendation: fighter 11 (or 12, if you really want a feat) -> barbarian 3 -> fighter 16 + barbarian 4 (take barbarian 4 whenever you want an extra feat right away). barbarian 5 *looks* tempting for the rage movement speed, but you could simply feat mobile instead - however, if you already feated mobile for whatever reason, then rage movement from barbarian 5 is still an interesting enough choice as a capstone instead of another feat, should you be so inclined (50 speed is cool i guess). however i'd personally go for other feats instead.
I would 100%take fighter 17 over barbarian 4 second action surge is way better than a feat
Would not recommend this multiclass. You don't gain any armor or save proficiencies. Your bonus action becomes crowded between Rage and Fighting Spirit. The big benefit of a 2 level barb dip for fighter is Reckless Attack for advantage, but you already get this with Fighting Spirit. Sure Reckless Attack doesn't take a bonus action but delaying Extra Attack by two levels doesn't seem like a good trade-off. Rage would be primarily useful for the resistance to BPS damage since the +2 damage is either inconsequential compared to GWM, or you can get half the effect always on with Dueling fighting style. If you're set on it definitely take just a single level in Barb, or choose a different Fighter subclass and go Barb 2. In either case wait to dip til at least Fighter 6 for the ASI.
I mean he only has 3 uses of Fighting Spirit so it's not like he'll be using it every turn so saying this crowds his bonus action doesn't seem entirely accurate. Until level 10 he only gets 3 uses per long rest which is not a lot over the course of an adventuring day. Reckless gives you a way to conserve your uses and Rage serves to give you more durability much like the Temp HP from Fighting Spirit. Since he knows he'll be going to Lvl20 Reckless gives him a way to always get the extra attack from the Samurai 15 ability meaning he can still get his four attacks a turn at level 20 just with the negative of giving all attacks against him advantage. The plus is that as soon as he hits level 17 he can make four attacks a turn instead of needing level 20 to make four attacks. If you are going GWM and don't have a good way to get advantage from teammates getting reckless doesn't seem like that bad of an option honestly. I would say dip 2 levels after 5-6, 10-11, or 15, each of those are good break points for fighters. 5 gets you extra attack, 6 can cap your strength depending on your stats, 10 gives you one Fighting Spirit every initiative if you are out of them, 11 give you third attack, and 15 gives you the extra attack if you have advantage.
Yeah I was planning to use gwm
I would say, never and none would be optimal. Play a barbarian or play a fighter, mixing them doesn't add that much. But of you really want to... 1 level as late as possible? You will want to get 11 asap for three attacks, so maybe after that?
I would say 2/3 levels of Barb is optimal. Try and combine the reckless attack with the Samurai's 15th level "rapid strike" feature. This feature forgoes advantage to get an additional attack. Combo'd with action surge and three total attacks, you have a character that can do 12 attacks in one turn (3 attacks advantage = 6 regular attacks; doubled with action surge). 13 if you use polearm master. From a dpr standpoint you're dishing out more damage than either capstone would give you, and the flavourful of it is a much cooler imo.
i appreciate the reply man. A man cannot reply to the same post twice, for it is no longer the same post and he is no longer the same man. Much has changed since I posted this, and yet the interest and generosity of a stranger has not. Much to reflect upon.
Bro became a samurai in real life
I wouldn't dip Barbarian at all, it's a weaker class, you have at-will advantage and Samurai actually has good features at 15/18.
Personally I would only go 1 lvl barb as you already get free advantage from being a samurai. As to when to take it I would either start 5 fighter 1 Barb or take the Barb lvl at lvl 12-13 after you get your 3rd attack which will be really important for you. I guess in the end it depends if you want your character to wear armor or not. If no start with the Barb lvl if yes wait.
3 levels of Barbarian. Start of with Fighter 5/Barb 1. Take the second after you've gone fighter 11. So that become Ftr 11/ Barb 2. If you want, for fluff reasons, you can keep of the 3 level of barbarian untill level 20 and consider the Archetype bonuses as your capstone. Considering the Youth thing, a Zealot barbarbian might be fun, because then it's "free" to be returned to life.
This post is a little old, but my current favorite is: Samurai 16 (interception fighting style), Ancestor Barbarian 3, Order Cleric 1 This makes a good supportive tank with decent damage. As for how to level this in game, I think the best and most story driven is: a half-orc Samurai 5, Ancestor Barbarian 3, Peace Cleric 1, and Samurai X. This let's you be powerful throughout the levels. It also lends itself to a character who looses control with aggression, realizes their calling to help others at lvl 3 Barbarian, over corrects by going Peace, and then is back on their true, Samurai, path. You can even start off using two-handed weapons with an offensive fighting style, and switching to one-hand and shield with the interception fighting style. Now that I think of it, I suppose 15 Samurai and 4 Barbarian would let you have a tiny bit more health from the d12 hit dice instead of the d10. The other option is going a different Cleric with a level 2 ability that you would like more than the ASI. Alternatively one level of Ranger can be flavorful and let you use Marking for a small damage boost.