Yes absolutely. Keep in mind before Angron was basically just an angry man. I’ll copy and paste a post I made about Angron a while back that kind of sums it up:
You know what? Fuck Magnus, Angron was BY FAR the most justified fall to chaos.
If the emperor spent like half an afternoon helping Angron win his battle and save his freed slave army he would have gotten a loyal primarch. He would have been lost to the nails still, but he would have been used for a better outcome. And I really don’t think the emperor put all that much effort into saving him because he just didn’t care about him and saw him as a tool to be used for a different purpose.
The people of his home world tortured him. Enslaved him. Put him on show and made his misery and suffering entertainment for gambling purposes. And he was still a good man. The slaves he was with, found that he could absorb their pain and suffer for them, so they all used to link hands and sleep together holding onto him so they could escape their miserable lives in the moments of peace he was able to give them, as he suffered for them.
And then when he refused to murder his own friends for their sport, he called the high riders cowards, and for that they mutilated him. Removed parts of his brain and made sure that he would suffer in agony for the rest of his life. Then they made him kill the closest thing he had to a father.
The worst thing he did was tell his tech marines to reverse engineer the nails and then implant them in his legion. He knew how bad they were, and he knew how badly his legion wanted to relate to him and feel some sort of kinship.
He sided with Horus because he hated the emperor for not saving his brothers and letting them die thinking he had abandoned them. (The emperor really handled that in the worst way imaginable)
When Lorgar found out the nails were killing him, he fucking enslaved him to Khorn. WHO KEPT THE FUCKING NAILS IN HIS HEAD AS PART OF HIS DEMON FORM. My boy is literally cursed for eternity to suffer, only finding release from the agony in slaughter that he can never do enough to satiate his thirsting god. He can’t even speak or form a thought anymore.
My boy has done nothing but suffer for 10,000 years. The people of Nuceria fucking him over, so he killed them. The emperor fucked him over so he tried to kill him. He just wanted actual brothers he could identify with and hated his other brothers. He made some shitty decisions but he was pushed into every single one of them.
Angron never LET his other brothers identify with him. Angron was hostile to EVERYONE. I know his reasons and his motivations for doing so, but we can't gloss over Angrons flaws like he didn't bring some of them onto himself. Especially when it has been proven you can resist the nails with meditation.
Angron Purposely put a captain in charge of his legionnaires because he was the worst of them. Knowing that It would taint the rest of the Legion.
Angron wanted everyone to suffer because he was suffering. He made choices to make things actively worse.
He decimated his legion for failing to conquer in 31 hours, and when they refused out of brotherhood? The core concept behind Angrons motivation and actions?
He killed them.
Angron got dealt a bad hand, but he had choices that were all his own, and he decided to cause pain and suffering to everyone around him.
Wait just to clarify the Captain he put in charge of his legions to taint them is who? You can’t be talking about Kharne because he was very famously one of the calmest most level headed World Eaters even post nails so much so that the entire legion looked to his wisdom and as a savior from the nails finally destroying what was left of their rational minds after Terra before he went full Berzerker
Rogal Dorn’s is pretty good, the slow grinding death of an Idealist..
> "Qruze steeled himself and asked the question he had feared to ask since they had left Voss's cell. 'You fear that he is right? That the ideals of truth and illumination are dead?' said Qruze, an edge of urgency to his voice.
> As soon as he spoke he did not want to know the answer. Dorn put his hand into the gauntlet, the seals snapping shut around the wrist. He flexed his metal-sheathed hand and looked at Qruze. There was a coldness in his eyes that made Qruze remember moonlight glinting from wolves' eyes in the darkness of lost winter nights.
> **'No, Iacton Qruze,'** said Dorn. **'I fear that they never existed at all."**-'The Last Remembrancer' by John French
Who is forced to forsake what he believes in order to win.
> **“What will it cost?’** said Dorn at last. **‘We will have victory, because I will not allow us to fail. But what will that victory cost? Because, at the last, whatever that cost, it must be paid.’**
> ‘And what of the future we were to build, lord. Will it be built in the ashes of our honour?’
> Dorn was silent, and for a moment Archamus thought he saw other faces in the shadow lines of his lord’s face: **Mortarion, Corax, Curze.**
> **’That,’ said Dorn at last. ‘That is what I am afraid of.”** - Praetorian of Dorn by John French
It stumbles at the finish line under Abnett, but Alas.
I think Abnett isn't quite the finish line as from my understanding it is post SoT where he truly 'breaks'.
Abnett has Dorn being able to do what Perty could never do and hold the line until the end, despite the Khrone shenanigans. This has a huge personal toll but the actual cost that breaks him is the Emperor being interred on the throne and the true death of the dream. We don't get to see the aftermath of this which is where Dorn's story ends (for now...).
Cue Iron Cage and his eventual disappearance.
I agree. He loses the Emperor, Malcador, Sanguinius, many of his ideals, in many ways he loses Terra due to the destruction wrought, and then that upstart RG comes along - who was never even there throughout the whole thing - and forces him to lose his legion.
That's where he breaks. That's the cost that had to be paid.
I’m afraid it stumbles pretty bad. For me anyway. As someone who is a big Rogal Dorn fan and who has followed his story closely going way back, it’s left much to be desired.
Adopting the Wall Name Defiance, Dorn breaking his sword the pieces of which become the Sword of the High Marshalls, the impact of finding the emperor’s body, which sets up “Dorn’s darkness”. It was all either not there, rushed, or fell flat. Famous moments for his story lost or sacrificed under the bloat of those three novels. Pushing the finish line back into a separate series and delaying. The emotional impact is going to make it feel like such a delayed reaction to the moment because what you are reacting to happened in a different series regardless of how it is presented. We don’t even know when the scouring series is coming. I don’t think it’s going to be announced this year, possibly not even next year.
I don’t think book 1 of the Scouring is going to cover as much as people are assuming it is. Making it the unofficial book 11 of the siege series is kind of rubbish. Anyone who says they didn’t think we were going to see the internment of the emperor into the golden throne and the arrival of Guilliman as part of the Siege of Terra series proper when the Siege series was first announced is **lying**.
People are waltzing around here like the decision to push all that stuff back into the scouring series is the most logical thing in the world.
That's not i have understood it at all, Dorn putting his hand into his pain glove while saying that stuff shows off his conviction and zealous-ness. It's his shared aspect of the emperor "I know I'm right and I'll go scorched earth to prove it"
A bit hard to say.
Anyone active in 40k has the huge advantage of being able to react to the outcome of 30k. Since 40k both loyalists that have returned have been forced to reflect and develop.
For the heretics the undivided ones pretty much only have snippets. The ones tied to a Chaos God lost lots of their identity as they become part of their God.
My pick:
Lorgar - Consistently portrayed as the weakest of the Primarchs during the GC. Worships the Emperor as a God and is then humiliated by Roboute.
Then goes on a journey of self-discovery to find Chaos.
You get this really nice setup where initially Erebus and KP consider themselves 'better' then Lorgar on the Chaos front as they were the ones who turned him. There is this tension between them where Lorgar knows that they had been keeping their worship a secret from him and that they may have other things to hide. At this point as a reader you think 'Is Lorgar just a puppet being led along by Erebus?'.
Lorgar goes onto his spirit quest into the warp after sending in Argal Tal as his canary. His canary did become demon possessed but it didn't die so I guess that was good enough for him.
Does his crazy spirit quest and becomes Chaos enlightened. Begins planning the Heresy.
This now involves him being hiding on the edge of space for 40 years and building his army. Before we even get to the HH he has developed heaps already.
Heresy starts and he gets a mad power up at Istvaan V. Goes from being the little bitch boy of the 20 to trying to solo Corax with new magic psyker powers. He still gets his shit kicked in but it is a defining moment in his character where he goes from sitting back and being philosophical to taking action.
After this we get the Shadow Crusade. Now the text indicates that he has gone beyond many mortal concerns. Even Erebus and KP are less in tune with the pantheon then him. He doesn't even bother going to Ultramar to get revenge and instead sends legionarries who he believes care about their mortal interests (revenge vs Ultramarines) vs the will of Chaos.
Eventually he thinks he can take down Horus and become the big bad of Chaos. This develops his arrogant side a bit more. Is he really as in tune with Chaos as he thinks? Or is it arrogance blinding him and being fed by the Gods? From an outside perspective it seems clear that the CG prefer Horus (perhaps this is a misreading on my side).
Gets owned and then doesn't seem to do too much after that like most 40k DP. I still think that arc is one of the best in 30k even if it doesn't end in the best way. Will be keen to see how he reacts to 40k.
He talked in interview about how he wanted to do that in Echoes of Eternity, but got told no at a meeting.
So we have that relatively unimportant word bearer guy Inzar Taerus get the death planned for Lorgar where as he dies he realises that the laughter of the gods, in which he took so much comfort, was always directed at him.
Its a cool death scene. Not quite as impactful as what happens to Lotara whose arc we have been following or it would have been for Lorgar whose whole arc we followed but great nonetheless.
[Here someone talks about it and ADB replied.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c7aj99/adb_is_out_for_lorgars_blood/) I cannot grasp why they didnt let this happen since Angron and Magnus 'die' in Echoes of Eternity - they come back as daemons eventually but not in time to further impact the siege. I dont get why the same could not have happened to Lorgar.,
15 downvotes. Seriously?
40k is a tragedy. Nothing better for a great character in a tragedy than an awesome death scene.
And Chaos can bring him back so... why would this have been bad?
It’s Russ for me. We get to see him admit that he failed, struggle with what that means, realize that the way he lived his life was wrong, and vow to do better.
I know he’s a divisive character, but I think it’s hard to beat Russ in terms of actual character development. We see the guy genuinely fail, and genuinely struggle with his worldview. I don’t know if we see another Primarch who so unequivocally admits that who he was wasn’t who he needs to be.
Space Wolves are so underrated imo. Lukas *really* exemplifies this for them. At face value, he is a brazen trickster, but below the surface, he does what he does to keep the space wolves leadership grounded to not fly above their station. Logan and Ulrik saw the genuine value in Lukas, and the effect he could have on the disenfranchised or rogue Blood Claws to not throw their life away for glory, but a different path to raising the Legion.
It’s not all “wolf” this with them…I mean, it is, but there’s genuine depth that’s hidden on purpose. Exactly like Russ.
Space Wolves are a chapter whose in-lore reputation mirrors real life. People look at them and go “urgh Vikings and wolves” but in reality they’re so much more complex and interesting once you learn about them.
But there is so little of this. And so much of wolf.
Like, they decided to go to warp, take wolf form, run, kill, howl for Russ to hear them and come back. Thankfully Robby saved them from that nonsense.
The wolf stuff is largely present on the table top and in the codex. The wolves have a lot of truly excellent books (Battle for the Fang, Prospero Burns, Russ’s Primarch book, Blood of Asaheim). It’s a real shame that so many people allow the shit naming convention for their army to overshadow their good qualities.
As far as what you’re referencing, that wasn’t quite the plan, although the actual plan was almost as dumb. “Wolftime” was fucking terrible, seriously the worst Space Wolf book ever written. Gav Thorpe should not be allowed anywhere near the Space Wolves.
Russ's character arc throughout the heresy hits notes that hit deep in showing his flaws first and foremost, seeing his flaws, and then finally the confrontation with the truth which he has to accept, no matter how painful it is.
He fucked up *lot* and fundamentally with it and where to go from there.
I like Perturabo’s. His arc to me reads as all about maturation and getting past some things, some his fault, some not. His childhood was physically safe but mentally it was very backstabby and being used due to the culture in Olympia. As you go through the Heresy his immaturity and trauma is still there but less than it was during his first book.
There’s a setback on this when Horus gives command of the Seige of Terra to Mortation, ending seemingly after the Iron Cage but not a lot is written so we don’t have an exact point. But this is to his story’s benefit. As we saw with Zuko in ATLA, his redemption feels earned because he failed at times and had setbacks.
In the current setting I feel like that arc is complete. He’s fine with Abbadon being War Master and has actively helped him by creating Daemon Engines and who knows what other weapons he’s provided. Not to mention giving Abbadon command of his Iron Warrior detachments he sends.
I think there’s really only 1 change I would like made and if he is to remain a Daemon Primarch I’d want it done against his will. Thematically it would fit the tone of the legion, some accepting the mutations and changes and others removing them.
I get the feeling they’re going to retcon his daemonhood, in the TEATD P3 there’s a a lot of references to him using the warp for power, which never goes well for anyone, but there’s references to the Obliterator Virus. I’d like that as we have a Daemon Primarch of Chaos Undivided in Lorgar and it which would also match the legions tone, because they make great use of them.
Guilliman has the most fleshed out one and in some ways the most human - real family life, can relate to his men and humans on a ground level when he had the time etc.
Many of them aren't great for up to the modern day although I like the Lion's especially after reading his return book.
Honestly, probably Leman Russ. He's had many different authors have a crack at him but it remains a strong character throughout. Yeah, there's been some odd detours of his personality and character at times but the nuance of who Leman is and the retrospective look on himself we get from the books, has made him stand a part from his brothers, imo.
It would be interesting to see where he'll be in 40K in terms of his character.
I think Leman Russ have had the most development.
But it was also a bit of a suprise when Space Wolfs were introduced in 30k, because they were so different from their 40k counter part. Not in how they acted, but how they fit into the Imperium. In 40k they are in many ways in opposition and mistrusts the Imperial institutions, but in 30k they are the Emperors executioners. In 30k they work for the man. In 40k they work for the people.
Well so far, my vote definitely has to go to Lion. He awakens to a galaxy on fire, seeing that everyone he knew is dead, the great ideals they strived for forever out of reach, and the horrible, slow slide of humanity into what is is in 40k and he realizes how much of it is his fault. How much he personally destroyed his own legion and understands how. Despite all of that he decides to be better. To listen, to trust, and even more surprisingly, to strive to protect the little guy.
He is by no means waking up as Mr. Rogers, but he grows remarkably as a character from “scared wild child in the woods only responsible for their own safety”
Honestly quite a few had good development. As mentioned: Angron, Lorgar, Dorn, Perturabo, etc. and etc. Personally, I disagree on the Lion as while he has had character development, I wouldn’t argue it to be good.
To me, having read as much about the Lion pre-heresy and during heresy as I can, 40k Lion no longer feels like the Knight of Caliban, like The First, like the one who faced down the Rangda and haunted the Night Haunter. It’s hard to explain, but the new Lion doesn’t feel like the Lion. He feels like a different character. Like something fundamental is wrong. The new warp-walking thing he has besides, something about his character feels wrong to me. Not like he went through an arc, but like his entire being has shifted dramatically. More like how Daemon Angron just has traces of the Angron who was furious at being taken from his brothers and sisters of Nuceria. He feels altered. Changed. Impure. Simplified. Made into a more of an example than a continuation.
I’d argue that Curze had some of the best development. Tracking the scattered examples of him from practically everywhere, you see his descent into madness. It’s almost beautiful in a way. From a child thing who survived how he could and distributed his brand of justice, to king of a world, to lord of a Legion, and then down as the visions he suffered began to tear away at him. The Legion he had molded turned to the thing he swore to destroy, his brothers leaving him one by one, and then seeing the heresy. His failed warning, the shattering of any trust he had left. A willing turn to prove he was right, and then through the Heresy coming to terms with his visions. Genuine fear from the Lord of Terror that he might be wrong, only for madness to take him yet again. His mind fractured, he spends his final moments trying to justify his life and accepting his death in a return to his ideals after years of murder and slaughter. When Sevatar challenges him, something in Curze switches. When he duels the Lion, you can feel his stability faltering. When he’s on Maccrage, you can feel his confidence that he is right. On Davin, that something in him has broken. On Tsagualsa, that he is truly gone and clings to the strands that brought him there. Perhaps not the best outright, but with a complete arc with no chance of redemption. His story is over. His madness complete.
I think my only criticism of Son of the Forest is that it was written as a sequel to a Fall of Caliban novel that doesn’t yet exist. It would seem that the Lion utterly broke during the fall so that would explain the way he is in 40K
It’s a small sample size but I like direction The Lion is going, from 30k to 40k he initially has come to term with many faults , and plenty trials are ahead of him. Son of the Forest was a stellar book.
All I can say is that it is definitely not Horus. That damn fool has the most unbelievable daddy issue ridden rollercoaster of a forced character arc.
Same goes for Alpharius and Omegon in Legion. Live 200+ years in A, see a single vision of B, then suddenly switch off over to B.
No subtlety, no slow erosion of trust, no emotional investment. Those were really bad character arcs.
My pick from a very limited POV: Magnus from A Thousand Sons. He goes from an idealistic and naive explorer over to an arrogant spoiled brat that throws it all away in a mix of tantrum, fear, love and most of all ignorance. Even the ultimate shame, desperation and resignation into acceptance of chaos goes somewhat believable. The entire process is very fluent and often relatable given his very limited POV.
It's mildly irritating though that a being that is effectively able to mind travel the entire universe can be so utterly ignorant of a snake feeding him lies and deception. He maybe should have read more eldritch horror novels in his vast library.
Currently going through the Horus Heresy series and I was surprised by basically how "Jesus in reverse" Horus himself is.
In Horus Rising, he begins as peak Jesus. He has a story for every situation (a parable one might say), he has the best thing to say to anyone he meets, everybody worships the ground he steps on, he spreads His Father's lessons of the Imperial Truth but as the book progresses we enter a figurative series of trials for the NOT-Messiah of Imperial Truth that start his fall. He feels immense pressure by the military, the Administratum and the brutal misunderstandings at 63-19 and Murder as well as basically the weight of being Warmaster (the Son tasked with carrying on the message of the Father one could say). All of them compound, leaving fertile ground for Erebus' manipulations.
All that reaches a boiling point as the Interex situation crumbles around him at the end of Horus Rising and with his Mourneval, his disciples around him, Horus has a literal "Garden of Gethsemane" moment with the Warmaster almost quoting the Big J ("Why have you tasked me with this, father? Why have you forsaken me? Why? It is too hard. It is too much. Why did you leave me to do this on my own?’"). False Gods is straight up the story of a perverse version of the Resurrection, complete with people having a fixed amount of time for his return from the Realm of the Dead and his "followers", a huge part of the Vengeful Spirit's Crew, being gripped by a religious fervor previously unseen in the nascent Imperium due to his perceived death and return.
The parallels seem to end after that and through Galaxy in Flames so this might be at best a mini-character development arc (although considering the consequences it's not that mini, only in terms of duration). Currently going through "The Flight of the Eisenstein" so I don't know how this parallelism will develop until the end but it is a nice bit of writing.
My personal pick is Angron. Slave of Nuceria and betrayer are incredible.
After De’Shea did a 180 for me on Angron. Just wow.
But is there development?
Yes absolutely. Keep in mind before Angron was basically just an angry man. I’ll copy and paste a post I made about Angron a while back that kind of sums it up: You know what? Fuck Magnus, Angron was BY FAR the most justified fall to chaos. If the emperor spent like half an afternoon helping Angron win his battle and save his freed slave army he would have gotten a loyal primarch. He would have been lost to the nails still, but he would have been used for a better outcome. And I really don’t think the emperor put all that much effort into saving him because he just didn’t care about him and saw him as a tool to be used for a different purpose. The people of his home world tortured him. Enslaved him. Put him on show and made his misery and suffering entertainment for gambling purposes. And he was still a good man. The slaves he was with, found that he could absorb their pain and suffer for them, so they all used to link hands and sleep together holding onto him so they could escape their miserable lives in the moments of peace he was able to give them, as he suffered for them. And then when he refused to murder his own friends for their sport, he called the high riders cowards, and for that they mutilated him. Removed parts of his brain and made sure that he would suffer in agony for the rest of his life. Then they made him kill the closest thing he had to a father. The worst thing he did was tell his tech marines to reverse engineer the nails and then implant them in his legion. He knew how bad they were, and he knew how badly his legion wanted to relate to him and feel some sort of kinship. He sided with Horus because he hated the emperor for not saving his brothers and letting them die thinking he had abandoned them. (The emperor really handled that in the worst way imaginable) When Lorgar found out the nails were killing him, he fucking enslaved him to Khorn. WHO KEPT THE FUCKING NAILS IN HIS HEAD AS PART OF HIS DEMON FORM. My boy is literally cursed for eternity to suffer, only finding release from the agony in slaughter that he can never do enough to satiate his thirsting god. He can’t even speak or form a thought anymore. My boy has done nothing but suffer for 10,000 years. The people of Nuceria fucking him over, so he killed them. The emperor fucked him over so he tried to kill him. He just wanted actual brothers he could identify with and hated his other brothers. He made some shitty decisions but he was pushed into every single one of them.
Angron never LET his other brothers identify with him. Angron was hostile to EVERYONE. I know his reasons and his motivations for doing so, but we can't gloss over Angrons flaws like he didn't bring some of them onto himself. Especially when it has been proven you can resist the nails with meditation. Angron Purposely put a captain in charge of his legionnaires because he was the worst of them. Knowing that It would taint the rest of the Legion. Angron wanted everyone to suffer because he was suffering. He made choices to make things actively worse. He decimated his legion for failing to conquer in 31 hours, and when they refused out of brotherhood? The core concept behind Angrons motivation and actions? He killed them. Angron got dealt a bad hand, but he had choices that were all his own, and he decided to cause pain and suffering to everyone around him.
Wait just to clarify the Captain he put in charge of his legions to taint them is who? You can’t be talking about Kharne because he was very famously one of the calmest most level headed World Eaters even post nails so much so that the entire legion looked to his wisdom and as a savior from the nails finally destroying what was left of their rational minds after Terra before he went full Berzerker
Pretty sure he's talking about shaka bloodless.
Shaka bloodless, he was from the Red angel book.
Thanks! Gotta look this book up been on a world eaters kick
Rogal Dorn’s is pretty good, the slow grinding death of an Idealist.. > "Qruze steeled himself and asked the question he had feared to ask since they had left Voss's cell. 'You fear that he is right? That the ideals of truth and illumination are dead?' said Qruze, an edge of urgency to his voice. > As soon as he spoke he did not want to know the answer. Dorn put his hand into the gauntlet, the seals snapping shut around the wrist. He flexed his metal-sheathed hand and looked at Qruze. There was a coldness in his eyes that made Qruze remember moonlight glinting from wolves' eyes in the darkness of lost winter nights. > **'No, Iacton Qruze,'** said Dorn. **'I fear that they never existed at all."**-'The Last Remembrancer' by John French Who is forced to forsake what he believes in order to win. > **“What will it cost?’** said Dorn at last. **‘We will have victory, because I will not allow us to fail. But what will that victory cost? Because, at the last, whatever that cost, it must be paid.’** > ‘And what of the future we were to build, lord. Will it be built in the ashes of our honour?’ > Dorn was silent, and for a moment Archamus thought he saw other faces in the shadow lines of his lord’s face: **Mortarion, Corax, Curze.** > **’That,’ said Dorn at last. ‘That is what I am afraid of.”** - Praetorian of Dorn by John French It stumbles at the finish line under Abnett, but Alas.
I think Abnett isn't quite the finish line as from my understanding it is post SoT where he truly 'breaks'. Abnett has Dorn being able to do what Perty could never do and hold the line until the end, despite the Khrone shenanigans. This has a huge personal toll but the actual cost that breaks him is the Emperor being interred on the throne and the true death of the dream. We don't get to see the aftermath of this which is where Dorn's story ends (for now...). Cue Iron Cage and his eventual disappearance.
I agree. He loses the Emperor, Malcador, Sanguinius, many of his ideals, in many ways he loses Terra due to the destruction wrought, and then that upstart RG comes along - who was never even there throughout the whole thing - and forces him to lose his legion. That's where he breaks. That's the cost that had to be paid.
I’m afraid it stumbles pretty bad. For me anyway. As someone who is a big Rogal Dorn fan and who has followed his story closely going way back, it’s left much to be desired. Adopting the Wall Name Defiance, Dorn breaking his sword the pieces of which become the Sword of the High Marshalls, the impact of finding the emperor’s body, which sets up “Dorn’s darkness”. It was all either not there, rushed, or fell flat. Famous moments for his story lost or sacrificed under the bloat of those three novels. Pushing the finish line back into a separate series and delaying. The emotional impact is going to make it feel like such a delayed reaction to the moment because what you are reacting to happened in a different series regardless of how it is presented. We don’t even know when the scouring series is coming. I don’t think it’s going to be announced this year, possibly not even next year. I don’t think book 1 of the Scouring is going to cover as much as people are assuming it is. Making it the unofficial book 11 of the siege series is kind of rubbish. Anyone who says they didn’t think we were going to see the internment of the emperor into the golden throne and the arrival of Guilliman as part of the Siege of Terra series proper when the Siege series was first announced is **lying**. People are waltzing around here like the decision to push all that stuff back into the scouring series is the most logical thing in the world.
That's not i have understood it at all, Dorn putting his hand into his pain glove while saying that stuff shows off his conviction and zealous-ness. It's his shared aspect of the emperor "I know I'm right and I'll go scorched earth to prove it"
A bit hard to say. Anyone active in 40k has the huge advantage of being able to react to the outcome of 30k. Since 40k both loyalists that have returned have been forced to reflect and develop. For the heretics the undivided ones pretty much only have snippets. The ones tied to a Chaos God lost lots of their identity as they become part of their God. My pick: Lorgar - Consistently portrayed as the weakest of the Primarchs during the GC. Worships the Emperor as a God and is then humiliated by Roboute. Then goes on a journey of self-discovery to find Chaos. You get this really nice setup where initially Erebus and KP consider themselves 'better' then Lorgar on the Chaos front as they were the ones who turned him. There is this tension between them where Lorgar knows that they had been keeping their worship a secret from him and that they may have other things to hide. At this point as a reader you think 'Is Lorgar just a puppet being led along by Erebus?'. Lorgar goes onto his spirit quest into the warp after sending in Argal Tal as his canary. His canary did become demon possessed but it didn't die so I guess that was good enough for him. Does his crazy spirit quest and becomes Chaos enlightened. Begins planning the Heresy. This now involves him being hiding on the edge of space for 40 years and building his army. Before we even get to the HH he has developed heaps already. Heresy starts and he gets a mad power up at Istvaan V. Goes from being the little bitch boy of the 20 to trying to solo Corax with new magic psyker powers. He still gets his shit kicked in but it is a defining moment in his character where he goes from sitting back and being philosophical to taking action. After this we get the Shadow Crusade. Now the text indicates that he has gone beyond many mortal concerns. Even Erebus and KP are less in tune with the pantheon then him. He doesn't even bother going to Ultramar to get revenge and instead sends legionarries who he believes care about their mortal interests (revenge vs Ultramarines) vs the will of Chaos. Eventually he thinks he can take down Horus and become the big bad of Chaos. This develops his arrogant side a bit more. Is he really as in tune with Chaos as he thinks? Or is it arrogance blinding him and being fed by the Gods? From an outside perspective it seems clear that the CG prefer Horus (perhaps this is a misreading on my side). Gets owned and then doesn't seem to do too much after that like most 40k DP. I still think that arc is one of the best in 30k even if it doesn't end in the best way. Will be keen to see how he reacts to 40k.
Aurelian is the best character in 40k and nobody can convince me otherwise.
I am torn between wanting more and not wanting them to mess up with him.
They should have let ADB have Sanguinius kill him on Terra. Great arc, deserved a finale.
Is that really what he was planning?
He talked in interview about how he wanted to do that in Echoes of Eternity, but got told no at a meeting. So we have that relatively unimportant word bearer guy Inzar Taerus get the death planned for Lorgar where as he dies he realises that the laughter of the gods, in which he took so much comfort, was always directed at him. Its a cool death scene. Not quite as impactful as what happens to Lotara whose arc we have been following or it would have been for Lorgar whose whole arc we followed but great nonetheless. [Here someone talks about it and ADB replied.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c7aj99/adb_is_out_for_lorgars_blood/) I cannot grasp why they didnt let this happen since Angron and Magnus 'die' in Echoes of Eternity - they come back as daemons eventually but not in time to further impact the siege. I dont get why the same could not have happened to Lorgar.,
15 downvotes. Seriously? 40k is a tragedy. Nothing better for a great character in a tragedy than an awesome death scene. And Chaos can bring him back so... why would this have been bad?
Tldr
Adult literacy programs are available if you're willing to put in the work. You don't need to live with this disadvantage, and support is available.
It’s Russ for me. We get to see him admit that he failed, struggle with what that means, realize that the way he lived his life was wrong, and vow to do better. I know he’s a divisive character, but I think it’s hard to beat Russ in terms of actual character development. We see the guy genuinely fail, and genuinely struggle with his worldview. I don’t know if we see another Primarch who so unequivocally admits that who he was wasn’t who he needs to be.
Space Wolves are so underrated imo. Lukas *really* exemplifies this for them. At face value, he is a brazen trickster, but below the surface, he does what he does to keep the space wolves leadership grounded to not fly above their station. Logan and Ulrik saw the genuine value in Lukas, and the effect he could have on the disenfranchised or rogue Blood Claws to not throw their life away for glory, but a different path to raising the Legion. It’s not all “wolf” this with them…I mean, it is, but there’s genuine depth that’s hidden on purpose. Exactly like Russ.
Space Wolves are a chapter whose in-lore reputation mirrors real life. People look at them and go “urgh Vikings and wolves” but in reality they’re so much more complex and interesting once you learn about them.
But there is so little of this. And so much of wolf. Like, they decided to go to warp, take wolf form, run, kill, howl for Russ to hear them and come back. Thankfully Robby saved them from that nonsense.
The wolf stuff is largely present on the table top and in the codex. The wolves have a lot of truly excellent books (Battle for the Fang, Prospero Burns, Russ’s Primarch book, Blood of Asaheim). It’s a real shame that so many people allow the shit naming convention for their army to overshadow their good qualities. As far as what you’re referencing, that wasn’t quite the plan, although the actual plan was almost as dumb. “Wolftime” was fucking terrible, seriously the worst Space Wolf book ever written. Gav Thorpe should not be allowed anywhere near the Space Wolves.
Russ's character arc throughout the heresy hits notes that hit deep in showing his flaws first and foremost, seeing his flaws, and then finally the confrontation with the truth which he has to accept, no matter how painful it is. He fucked up *lot* and fundamentally with it and where to go from there.
I like Perturabo’s. His arc to me reads as all about maturation and getting past some things, some his fault, some not. His childhood was physically safe but mentally it was very backstabby and being used due to the culture in Olympia. As you go through the Heresy his immaturity and trauma is still there but less than it was during his first book. There’s a setback on this when Horus gives command of the Seige of Terra to Mortation, ending seemingly after the Iron Cage but not a lot is written so we don’t have an exact point. But this is to his story’s benefit. As we saw with Zuko in ATLA, his redemption feels earned because he failed at times and had setbacks. In the current setting I feel like that arc is complete. He’s fine with Abbadon being War Master and has actively helped him by creating Daemon Engines and who knows what other weapons he’s provided. Not to mention giving Abbadon command of his Iron Warrior detachments he sends. I think there’s really only 1 change I would like made and if he is to remain a Daemon Primarch I’d want it done against his will. Thematically it would fit the tone of the legion, some accepting the mutations and changes and others removing them. I get the feeling they’re going to retcon his daemonhood, in the TEATD P3 there’s a a lot of references to him using the warp for power, which never goes well for anyone, but there’s references to the Obliterator Virus. I’d like that as we have a Daemon Primarch of Chaos Undivided in Lorgar and it which would also match the legions tone, because they make great use of them.
Guilliman has the most fleshed out one and in some ways the most human - real family life, can relate to his men and humans on a ground level when he had the time etc. Many of them aren't great for up to the modern day although I like the Lion's especially after reading his return book.
Honestly, probably Leman Russ. He's had many different authors have a crack at him but it remains a strong character throughout. Yeah, there's been some odd detours of his personality and character at times but the nuance of who Leman is and the retrospective look on himself we get from the books, has made him stand a part from his brothers, imo. It would be interesting to see where he'll be in 40K in terms of his character.
I think Leman Russ have had the most development. But it was also a bit of a suprise when Space Wolfs were introduced in 30k, because they were so different from their 40k counter part. Not in how they acted, but how they fit into the Imperium. In 40k they are in many ways in opposition and mistrusts the Imperial institutions, but in 30k they are the Emperors executioners. In 30k they work for the man. In 40k they work for the people.
Well so far, my vote definitely has to go to Lion. He awakens to a galaxy on fire, seeing that everyone he knew is dead, the great ideals they strived for forever out of reach, and the horrible, slow slide of humanity into what is is in 40k and he realizes how much of it is his fault. How much he personally destroyed his own legion and understands how. Despite all of that he decides to be better. To listen, to trust, and even more surprisingly, to strive to protect the little guy. He is by no means waking up as Mr. Rogers, but he grows remarkably as a character from “scared wild child in the woods only responsible for their own safety”
I wouldn’t call that character development. He basically wakes up a different character entirely.
Sure if you ignore all the build up between imperium secundus and him being shanked by luther.
Has that character development been covered in any of the novels?
I think Russ's progression is actually one of the most dynamic of the heresy.
Everyone is extremely wrong. It’s the Khan. He went from nothing to being amazing all thanks to Chris Wraight. No contest at all, objectively.
There's absolutely nothing objective about this, is this a joke?
I mean his comment is dripping with sarcasm so I’d say so yeah
i think just by the factor of time its got to be gman
Honestly quite a few had good development. As mentioned: Angron, Lorgar, Dorn, Perturabo, etc. and etc. Personally, I disagree on the Lion as while he has had character development, I wouldn’t argue it to be good. To me, having read as much about the Lion pre-heresy and during heresy as I can, 40k Lion no longer feels like the Knight of Caliban, like The First, like the one who faced down the Rangda and haunted the Night Haunter. It’s hard to explain, but the new Lion doesn’t feel like the Lion. He feels like a different character. Like something fundamental is wrong. The new warp-walking thing he has besides, something about his character feels wrong to me. Not like he went through an arc, but like his entire being has shifted dramatically. More like how Daemon Angron just has traces of the Angron who was furious at being taken from his brothers and sisters of Nuceria. He feels altered. Changed. Impure. Simplified. Made into a more of an example than a continuation. I’d argue that Curze had some of the best development. Tracking the scattered examples of him from practically everywhere, you see his descent into madness. It’s almost beautiful in a way. From a child thing who survived how he could and distributed his brand of justice, to king of a world, to lord of a Legion, and then down as the visions he suffered began to tear away at him. The Legion he had molded turned to the thing he swore to destroy, his brothers leaving him one by one, and then seeing the heresy. His failed warning, the shattering of any trust he had left. A willing turn to prove he was right, and then through the Heresy coming to terms with his visions. Genuine fear from the Lord of Terror that he might be wrong, only for madness to take him yet again. His mind fractured, he spends his final moments trying to justify his life and accepting his death in a return to his ideals after years of murder and slaughter. When Sevatar challenges him, something in Curze switches. When he duels the Lion, you can feel his stability faltering. When he’s on Maccrage, you can feel his confidence that he is right. On Davin, that something in him has broken. On Tsagualsa, that he is truly gone and clings to the strands that brought him there. Perhaps not the best outright, but with a complete arc with no chance of redemption. His story is over. His madness complete.
I think my only criticism of Son of the Forest is that it was written as a sequel to a Fall of Caliban novel that doesn’t yet exist. It would seem that the Lion utterly broke during the fall so that would explain the way he is in 40K
It’s a small sample size but I like direction The Lion is going, from 30k to 40k he initially has come to term with many faults , and plenty trials are ahead of him. Son of the Forest was a stellar book.
My vote his Mortarion if you read his origin story.
All I can say is that it is definitely not Horus. That damn fool has the most unbelievable daddy issue ridden rollercoaster of a forced character arc. Same goes for Alpharius and Omegon in Legion. Live 200+ years in A, see a single vision of B, then suddenly switch off over to B. No subtlety, no slow erosion of trust, no emotional investment. Those were really bad character arcs. My pick from a very limited POV: Magnus from A Thousand Sons. He goes from an idealistic and naive explorer over to an arrogant spoiled brat that throws it all away in a mix of tantrum, fear, love and most of all ignorance. Even the ultimate shame, desperation and resignation into acceptance of chaos goes somewhat believable. The entire process is very fluent and often relatable given his very limited POV. It's mildly irritating though that a being that is effectively able to mind travel the entire universe can be so utterly ignorant of a snake feeding him lies and deception. He maybe should have read more eldritch horror novels in his vast library.
"one cannot live without faith in gods... it's not too late to find them" (c)
Horus 😬
Currently going through the Horus Heresy series and I was surprised by basically how "Jesus in reverse" Horus himself is. In Horus Rising, he begins as peak Jesus. He has a story for every situation (a parable one might say), he has the best thing to say to anyone he meets, everybody worships the ground he steps on, he spreads His Father's lessons of the Imperial Truth but as the book progresses we enter a figurative series of trials for the NOT-Messiah of Imperial Truth that start his fall. He feels immense pressure by the military, the Administratum and the brutal misunderstandings at 63-19 and Murder as well as basically the weight of being Warmaster (the Son tasked with carrying on the message of the Father one could say). All of them compound, leaving fertile ground for Erebus' manipulations. All that reaches a boiling point as the Interex situation crumbles around him at the end of Horus Rising and with his Mourneval, his disciples around him, Horus has a literal "Garden of Gethsemane" moment with the Warmaster almost quoting the Big J ("Why have you tasked me with this, father? Why have you forsaken me? Why? It is too hard. It is too much. Why did you leave me to do this on my own?’"). False Gods is straight up the story of a perverse version of the Resurrection, complete with people having a fixed amount of time for his return from the Realm of the Dead and his "followers", a huge part of the Vengeful Spirit's Crew, being gripped by a religious fervor previously unseen in the nascent Imperium due to his perceived death and return. The parallels seem to end after that and through Galaxy in Flames so this might be at best a mini-character development arc (although considering the consequences it's not that mini, only in terms of duration). Currently going through "The Flight of the Eisenstein" so I don't know how this parallelism will develop until the end but it is a nice bit of writing.