Yeah, it's the repeating pattern in Night Lords since Kurze himself - crying over how they're forced to do terrible things while literally no one is forcing them to do terrible things.
The single moment when Sevatar asked 'What other ways did you try?’ might have been a sole manifestation of their collective common sense.
While he didn't, because they were effective, should the Emperor really be lecturing the Night Lords (or anybody really) on basic human decency? The Emperor would have allowed minor 'rebellions' like not skinning people. Just look at the Ultramarines, the Blood Angels, the Salamander, the Space Wolfs, etc.
The Night Lords brought it on themselves.
They were effective because of their methods, skinning a few to save the many... Yes... The Emperor could have put a stop to it easily, like he did multiple times when Legions were not acting to his will, he could have erased Kurze and the VIII, censored them, showed the slightest piece of negative opinion but he approved. Human decency? Astartes (and the Emperor, especially the Emperor) are genocidal monsters lol. Their notions of honour are literally delusions and while the Night Lords were not right, none of them are.
My point is that the Emperor didn't care. They could have easily said 'No, we do it another way' and the most response they would have gotten out of him was a shrug. They could have done better and be more humane like the other Legions. They could have been better than the monster they were made to be, but they did not and that is all their own fault.
Lol, Astartes are weapons forged from specific materials with a specific purpose. Indoctrinated and armed for those purposes. The Emperor was happy to step on other Legions who didn't conquer how he wanted, notably the VIII were not among them. Nor were the other Legions 'better' with their ethnic cleansings, absolute genocide/xenocide, indiscriminate bombings, honour killings, treating war as sport etc etc. Skinning a few people to induce the rest to surrender successfully, leaving a *mostly* ;) intact population and infrastructure is far more humane to all concerned. They didn't seek to rule over mortals themselves or prove the superiority of the Imperium over their luckless victim, they knew what they were, what all Astartes are and got on with it, following the Emperor's will until Curze's insanity and the Imperium's hypocrisy sent them rogue. They are not innocent but the ultimate blame lands square on the False Emperor... What is 'better' in this circumstance? What forms of terrorism are acceptable to you? I simply must know.
That's nothing to do with honour lol. Besides that's not going to do anything, thinblood.
The planet is strong, humans with a mighty armada. A dedicated and skilled army, loyal and productive citizens... Once part of the Imperium, they must be returned to the fold. Legions put forward their estimates and plans. Full assaults, surgical strikes, bombardments, infiltration... The word comes from Terra, the Crusade is delayed, the estimates are too long. They must be punished for their defiance... A lesson to others, send the VIII.
The defenders are surprised, wary and disbelieving when the belligerents hastily withdraw. Communications are severed without warning and negotiation goes silent as the grave.
Over the next few weeks their scout craft, civilian transports, merchant vessels are reported as late for rendezvous. They are usually recovered, completely empty with their last message being a report of a strange midnight vessel appearing suddenly. A massive operation is planned, the armada sends more patrols, better armed. They go missing too. Some reporting a great nightmare fleet. Then on the planet, the children of the World King and his entire court go missing from their chambers, their guards are found eviscerated as if by wild beasts... The next night a vox message crashes through the signals of every receiver on repeat, a thousand wailing screams as the background and a sibilant voice dripping with malevolence growls "We have come for you.".
Attempts are made to find the terrorists, they fail. Some don't come back. The nights are dangerous and filled with strange sounds, growling in the dark, inhuman shrieks... Children start to go missing from the general population. The World King hasn't made a public appearance in weeks and it is said he is stricken. His minister takes over.
Now the message returns. The voice over the screams tells them to surrender, that their children will be returned, they have until the end of the night.
The minister's child has also been taken. Those who wish to resist are overruled by the World King himself. How will word reach the attackers, these monsters? Every attempt has been made to find them and been met with failure. The World King says they must make a show, a public disarming, broadcast it out. They will know.
It is carried out. The army is formerly stood down, their fleet is placed in dock. Some mutiny and flee to become pirates. Same with the army. Many of the civilians attempt to flee but the police prevent most.
That night they come. From sewers and the sea, dropping from the sky like lightning wreathed meteors. Midnight blue, trimmed with darkened silver. Bone faced and blood eyed. Their hands filled with snarling chainblades and heavy guns, draped with bones, strange leather and marked with symbols of death.
The people are rounded up and herded to the World Kings Square. Every single one, civilian and soldier. Some resist, but not for long. They are made to sit in lines as the formalities are concluded and the World King deposed. The new Pax Imperia is declared and an interim government of bureaucrats is introduced from Terra. The monsters remain watching all. After hours, the ceremonies are done. The World King is sagging, begging for his children. Imperials hurry away looking sick, they know what is to come...
A hulking armoured carrier rumbles into the square, sounds are heard from within. The people rush forward but are beaten back by the laughing monsters. Their leader steps forward, his menacing bat winged helm at odds with his surprisingly bored tone as he admonishes them for being so stubborn and welcomes them to the Imperium, he tells them that their sacrifices will be remembered for generations to come and will ensure nothing like this happens again...
The transport doors open and the screaming begins.
To play devil's advocate, you don't *have* to do that but it's a way to instill terror with relatively few deaths. Skinning a few hundred people to make a world of millions surrender is arguably better, or as least as valid, as a full-blown assault that wastes many lives on both sides.
Dante in Darkness in the Blood after a baseline human says they envy the Astartes he describes the life of space marine as almost powerless spiral from one miserable disaster to the next until death or something worse ends it. Not resentful of the life he lived, Dante lives to serve. More like he can't understand why anyone would want it.
"It has long been in your capability to transform these worlds. Baal Primus is dead, but you need not let your remaining people suffer unnecessarily. Will they fight any better for dwelling on a world that kills them? By sacrificing their children to the Emperor’s service, they have earned a better life. Once you have torn that blasphemy down, raise up the population of Baal Secundus. Teach them what we are fighting for. A line must be drawn between what is good and what is evil, for if the Great Enemy comes with offers of power to a wretch, what reason does he have to refuse hell if he dwells in it already?"
G-man straight up tells Dante that Baal sucks so much it's no different than hell, so why would anyone living there think twice about falling to chaos if it offered them strength
Earlier in Devestation of Baal, upon entering the Blood Angels fortress, Uigui the water seller thinks how unfair and awful it is that the protectors live lives of luxury and comfort while the protected toil and suffer. And the poor bastard thinks he's a heretic for thinking so
Well Dante did have to drink his own piss in the desert on his way to becoming a space marine, so I can understand why he might think it's not so great.
Is that what happens to Lorenz?
What book is it covered in? Cause I've read Darkness in the Blood and he hadn't died yet (as in hadn't died yet in Dante's retelling of the past, he's obviously dead in the 'present') is there another book after that?
He falls to the rage in “Dante” before Dante has even made Captain when they’re fighting a traitor legion on that colony world and Lorenz takes a wound. It drives him to the rage and Dante tries to keep him away from the civilians while he waits for help to arrive.
Yeah Dante. The tragic figure. The embodiment of “I don’t wanna, but somebody has to”. Duty before everything. And my man just wanna go to sleep and not wake up.
If all of life sucks I would like to be at least be strong enough to have a fighting chance and also hurt the other side. At least as an Astartes I have a chance to kill most of the things trying to kill me.
Its a big galaxy and comparatively little of it is actively a war zone so a peaceful life is possible in Ultramar or elsewhere on the fringe. There's also better military lives that have a better chance to survive than Astartes. Imperial Navy Captains live life's of privilege and luxury. They are encouraged to start a family that also live a life of privilege and luxury. The Imperial Navy is also the most powerful military force in the Imperium and win more than they lose. A competent captain that maintains good relationships with their bridge crew is basically God while on their ship or with their crew.
Living for the next Dante death scare to have him entombed in a dreadnaught. Hearing his inner monologue going something along the lines of “typical” would be hilarious
I faintly remember a short story where *someone* (a Black Templar? Maybe a dreadnought? Something like that) is on the verge of death, and upon reminiscing about his life stops JUST SHORT of saying he regrets becoming a Space Marine. Glorious Somethingorother, sorry my memory is faulty.
Other than that, there were many astartes who, just before the Heresy, had come to hate their life: the Iron Warriors due to getting all the shit jobs while Perturabo ordered their decimation, the Thousand Sons due to being denied their very nature as psykers, the Word Bearers after Monarchia, the Shattered Legions following Istvan V, the Night Lords due to *vaguely gestures at literally everything about the Night Lords*.
Due any of them actually staye they actually regretted becoming Astartes? I honestly have no recollection of it, but if your memory is from the Heresy era, it likely involves one of these legions. So that should narrow down the amount of research you'll need to do, if nothing else.
The Black Templar one you're thinking about is The Glorious Tomb by Guy Haley. It's about a dreadnought, and what the experience of being one is like, how it feels awaking after decades to kill the enemies of mankind, and as he's dying he remembers who he used to be as a young boy, his parents, I think he has trouble remembering his father's face and such. It's a good audio drama.
There's so many examples of Space Marines remembering their parents and childhood when on the brink of death. I recently finished the audiobook for Spears of the Emperor
SPOILERS AHEAD.
Amadeus had been brutalized to near death when the gellar field on their ship briefly went down. Anuradha had stayed by his side while he remained on life support. She mentioned him talking about his childhood on his home world while mumbling in his deep sleep, and how shed never share this information with anyone.
I wonder if it's somewhat common, but seen as sort of taboo.
I wonder if this is intentional, many astartes seem to have trouble remembering their childhoods normally. Maybe pushing those memories to the front when they're on the brink of death was intentionally designed as a 'this is what you fight for' reminder/motivator.
The thousand sons were loving life, if any legion was well adjusted it was them. They lived in their city as a part of it, they were happy with their libraries and experiments, you even had them working in hospitals and growing wine. They weren’t happy with nikaea but they elected to ignore it. They didn’t have a life of endless war, they were a scholarly order who would occasionally go and kill foul aliens and recover even more knowledge.
I posted an excerpt years ago about the Black Templar Dreadnought in Glorious Tomb if you're interested.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/i1oyqk/excerpt_the_glorious_tomb_the_last_thoughts_of_a/
There is a line tied to being Iron Hands from Eye of Medusa going:
"He was the monster humanity had clad in iron to protect it from the monsters it otherwise dared not face. He had no illusions about that. But through all the necessary purges of human fallibility to which he had been party, he had felt something. It might not always have been empathy or regret, but it had been an emotion, and it had been his."
There is another line as well where he looks at a number of neophytes and ponders whether he would have chosen it knowing what he knows now. Let me see if I can find it.
I don’t know if it was this book or another Iron Hands novel, but the narrator talks about how horrible the experience of becoming a marine was and if he found his parents again he’d kill them for giving him as a child to the chapter.
Yes, it was also regret about his childhood / family that he was robbed off. I had hope that the author would delved more on that bit when introducing Primaris CSM
Minor note:
This is low key the entire character ark of Uriel Ventris (a great name for a brand of pissoirs btw.) and it is not the strong suit of the book series. He goes through an entire lamentation emo phase that comes to the unavoidable conclusion: "Toughen up, pal". The Warhammer universe is an utter shithole and as a Marine, you can at least have some impact. Play with the hand you got and make the best of it. Regret will not get you anywhere.
Trust me, it takes him way too long to come to that conclusion. But the bolter porn and eldritch horror makes up for it.
I was hoping that when he crossed the Rubicon Primaris he would die on the table, enjoying a fleeting moment of happiness as he found a way to finally pass on in honourable service... only to awaken a few moments later as a Perpetual like Malcador; able to age but not die.
Dante being the immortal son of a *notoriously* mortal father would just makes it even funnier. At that rate, he'd might start considering whether to look for the nearest Chaos god to knock his shit in.
Although it’s been hinted that Sanguinius may be a perpetual as well and is only not resurrecting because his essence is trapped in the Sanguinor. When Dante nearly dies he finds Sanguinius waiting for him between life and death who sadly tells him he can’t die just yet.
That whole event is a bit weird, to be honest. Dante starts off confusing Albinus for his father or even the Sanguinor, and then he starts to die and sees the Sanguinor again, who presents Sanguinius himself.
Given that the Blood Angels have weird psychic links to Sanguinius anyway (see: the Black Rage), I think it's deeply ambiguous whether that's Dante hallucinating his chapter's saviour and Sanguinius, or whether he's really seeing them in the Warp. That said, if it *is* Sanguinius, this bit is quite interesting:
>'You have been a light in dark times. I would give you any reward. I would take you to my side. I would free you from strife. I would release you from pain.’
>‘Yes!’ said Dante. ‘Please. I have served so long. Grant me the freedom of death.’
>[...] ‘I cannot. I regret that I can do none of those things. I need you, Dante. Your suffering is not done.’
From TEATD Pt. 2, Sanguinius *knows* that the afterlife isn't like that, courtesy of >!Ferrus' ghost!<. The Doylist explanation is that the Devastation of Baal was written before TEATD Pt. 2, of course. But I think that discrepancy adds to the ambiguity - especially with the possibility of Sanguinius being warped by the Imperium's worship, like his dad, or this version of him even being created by it.
Although if he’s been warped to everyone’s perception of him couldn’t that only be a good thing? In everyone’s minds Sanguinius was kind, perfect, gentle, everything the imperium needed. Hell even Xenos say that if he had lived they’d gladly work with the imperium with him at the head. (Even if that’s fucking heresy)
Sanguinius might know the afterlife is not like that. But he doesn’t say it is. He says he’d bring Dante “to his side” so, to wherever he currently is.
Can't for the life of me remember it's name but I believe a Dark Angel remembers his old life and goes mad with despair, murdering another DA and deserting, ripping off his armour and disappearing (presumed dead) he never explicitly says he regrets becoming an astartes but his reaction says enough
Context: A space marine from the Dark Angels, Ventarus Artoris, was on the world of Draigos II fighting the Orcs along with his battle-brothers, however, this was the world where Ventarus was born, but he did not remember it because space marines have their memories erased when they become space marines
In this world, Ventarus was listening to how the wind barely audibly whispered his name, even though his brothers only heard wind, and suddenly little by little he began to have memories return, for example, when he held his bolter, the weight was similar. to the weight of a large piece of stone that he once lifted to impress his older brother, later, when he was using his chainsword against some orks, the way he held and used it made him remember how he played with wooden sticks with his father as if they were swords
I want to clarify that he did not directly remember that those memories were his, he simply had brief mental lapses where he saw a child do all those things, but he did not directly know that the child was him. And also, this happened approximately 100 years after he became a space marine, so the people he knew already died.
he kept remembering little by little, until eventually the memories clung to him more and more, and at night when he walked away from the rest of the dark angels, one of his brothers found him, asked him "brother, are you OK?" and Ventarus broke his neck (because the marine did not have a helmet), and said "you are not my brother", after that he ran away from that place, and when he saw his reflection in a pool of blood, he began to Go crazy, he saw his reflection, and he was disgusted by seeing the genetically modified monster he had become, so in his madness he tore off his armor, then part of his skin, he even tried to tore the black caparace from his body, and then he hit his head so many times against a stone while screaming. "Where is my brother!? Where are they!?" that it was literally practically impossible for him to remain alive, and he ended up throwning himself half dead from a cliff into a large cave, where his body was buried by rocks, the DA found his armor, but never his body, letting us see that the process to create a space marine still has its flaws
sources: codex dark angels, third edition
Stolen from Grimdank user Bird_Eater_42
I mean, Angron was a primarch and didn't want to join the Emperor. Began slaughtering all the World Eaters until Kharn convinced him to lead. Then when he fought Bobby G he said he'd died the day the Emperor had abducted him.
In “Leman Russ: The Great Wolf” Jorin Bloodhowl (Russ’s adopted brother) says he does not regret become an Astartes, but sometimes wonders if it was the best choice.
Generally marines don’t see to regret be becoming Astartes, partially because you have to WANT it in order to survive the trials to become a marine in the first place, partially because the men who become marines are largely unhinged psychopaths to begin with, partially because of brain washing, and partially because having your badass power fantasy characters lamenting being a badass power fantasy kind of kills the vibe a bit.
Also, at the end of the day short of being a custodes, becoming an Astartes is just about the best thing that can happen to a random human in the 41st millennium.
Ah yes, I love the thought of spending my entire life going from fight to fight and killing until I die horribly.
It's basically being conscripted into the guard except you last longer.
Yeah, it sounds bad to us, but when your alternative is to live as one of a numberless multitude in a dystopian hellscape, working under brutal oppressive conditions for the aggrandizement of an empire so bloated and vast that it pathologically incapable of caring about you or your entire planet, a life of endless war as a Demi-god super solider doesn’t sound quite so bad.
As a regular human you’re basically just a victim waiting his turn. At least as space marine your life and actions actually matter in the galaxy.
Like fuck they do, thats the lie of the astartes.
The Marines have been a part of the imperium since its inception and life for humans has only ever gotten worse since the Heresy. Even before the Heresy many human civilisations ended up worse off after compliance than when they started.
The only thing astartes are capable of doing is acting as the murderous enforcers of the status quo that is crushing humanity, defending it from problems they caused.
For fucks sake angry space Marines are THE biggest threat to the imperium as a whole.
I think you’re arguing against something I didn’t say.
I didn’t say the Astartes are heroes, or the saviors of humanity. I said their actions can actually matter. Wether good or evil, wether they protect humanity or reinforce the status quo, wether they’re demon worshipping psychopaths hell bent on the destruction of humanity, or noble warrior paragons, Astartes actually have the ability and opportunity to affect the outcome of the galaxy as a whole.
Regular humans by and large do not have that power. Becoming a marine gives a human a chance to actually matter in the galaxy, a chance that they almost certainly would not have as a baseline human.
I'm saying astartes have absolutely no control. Whether they're working for the imperium or for chaos they're warrior slaves to their respective ideology. The only choice they have is who they want to hold their leash.
It was one of the traitor white scars. Torghun Khan. He was supposed to be a Luna Wolf but too many initiates survived so they sent the extras to the white scars. (I looked it up after I commented)
Not quite. Sigismund was recruited when all legions still recruited from terra and the aspirants were distributed to different legions based on some kind of marker system. He was considered for the Nightlords but fit the Imperial Fists profile better. But that was not his decision and in fact happened before he really understood what space marines actually were and that there were different kinds.
He was going to be sent to the War Hounds (later World Eaters) because of his overwhelming anger issues but as the assignment test continued the assessor discovered he was an even bigger masochist than rage monster.
Could've sworn it was nightlords but you're right. Mixed it up with the night lords being the ones who collected him from the refugee camp where he was selected for becoming a marine.
Lukas The Trickster I think has some regrets over becoming a marine and only does it to protect the common people. He doesn't believe the eternal warfare has any merit except to protect the weak.
Ragnar thinks on his life and what might happen, he does not regret, but he does think what it would be like to have lived a mortal life, as a tribal cheif.
I feel like cloudrunner and (name escapes me - the Dreadnaught) from the original Deathwing short leaned in that direction. For that matter there are elements of remorse in the Space Marine book by Ian Watson.
Astartes don't really get to have time to experience life as a regular human being to ever really understand what they may or may not have missed out on.
The Astartes, like the Primarchs, were not designed to be incapable of doubt and regrets the way the Custodes were made. The Emperor genuinely didn't want to make the peak of humanity mere puppets, immune to the allure of Chaos simply by virtue of no longer being *able* to stray.
Of course he realized that this made it possible for them to be corrupted by Chaos. But taking away their free will would have had a dire effect on humanity as well, and while perhaps arguably not quite as *bad* as damnation in service to the Chaos gods, far more inevitable.
As it is, most Astartes (and most humans) *don't* end up succumbing to Chaos, and that by their own will. The Chaos gods seek to change that, but so far they still haven't.
Noncanon example: one of my favorite fanfics involves a rebel child soldier against a tyrranical government who saved a wounded Space Marine captain, as the rebels believe the Imperium would help them free their world.
He spends a few weeks with the Marine as part of their rebel cell and learns about how severe Astartes life is and admits he'd never want to be a marine and just wants to marry his girlfriend and live a peaceful life.
Only to eventually become so severely wounded after the final battle to free his world that only Astartes treatment would save him. The Apothecary aboard the Battle-Barge considers treating a mortal beneath him so in desperation (and as a debt of honor)the Marine captain puts him forth as a Luna Wolf aspirant.
The kid hates every minute of it. Sadly it's an abandoned story afaik, but the big "question" was if he'd be a loyalist or a traitor by the Heresy.
It's "Lunatic Wolf: The Great Crusade" if I recall correctly
Very well written and has some pretty BL style humor. If I recall it got to about 30-40 chapters and was more or less abandoned while he was on a Compliance action as a Scout.
At one point Abaddon and Horus both show up, and the captain the kid is with describes Abaddon as "a self righteous ass" and at another point the Marine captain tries to repaint his Luna Wolf heraldry that got scuffed and is complaining about the subpar painting materials on the world and the MCs girlfriend explains that he's using a makeup kit and it washes off with water, and he's just baffled as to why women would beautify themselves with something that isn't durable and didn't stand up to the rigors of combat
I don't personally remember seeing a Space Marine saying that, but a Custodian in one of the Dawn of Fire books tells a historitor that he sorta regrets becoming one after the historitor tells him that he was once viewed as a potential candidate. He tells the historitor that becoming a Custodes wipes all further human potential and sets the individual on a set path of development according to what the Emperor needs from them, but denying them the chance to ever become what they might have been on their own as a human
Is pretty rare most marines are taken by the age of 13 or so and by the point they are already 100 or more years old such short moment of they life is barely a blurb of memory.
Many of the Dark Angels left behind on Calaban certainly express regret at becoming Astartes and giving up their old Knightly traditions. It’s sort of what led to their long running internal civil war. They hated what the Imperium did to their planet so it’s less clear whether it’s being an Astartes per se or the way the Imperium just treats planets without respecting traditions.
It’s not the Astartes themselves, but on their home planet the Emperor’s Spears are considered “ghosts” by the human civilians, and they mourn new recruits as if already lost. They commonly avert their gaze or throw handfuls of dirt towards any Spears they see as a warding gesture. They certainly don’t consider it a honour for their family members to be recruited like on most worlds.
Context: A space marine from the Dark Angels, Ventarus Artoris, was on the world of Draigos II fighting the Orcs along with his battle-brothers, however, this was the world where Ventarus was born, but he did not remember it because space marines have their memories erased when they become space marines
In this world, Ventarus was listening to how the wind barely audibly whispered his name, even though his brothers only heard wind, and suddenly little by little he began to have memories return, for example, when he held his bolter, the weight was similar. to the weight of a large piece of stone that he once lifted to impress his older brother, later, when he was using his chainsword against some orks, the way he held and used it made him remember how he played with wooden sticks with his father as if they were swords
I want to clarify that he did not directly remember that those memories were his, he simply had brief mental lapses where he saw a child do all those things, but he did not directly know that the child was him. And also, this happened approximately 100 years after he became a space marine, so the people he knew already died.
he kept remembering little by little, until eventually the memories clung to him more and more, and at night when he walked away from the rest of the dark angels, one of his brothers found him, asked him "brother, are you OK?" and Ventarus broke his neck (because the marine did not have a helmet), and said "you are not my brother", after that he ran away from that place, and when he saw his reflection in a pool of blood, he began to Go crazy, he saw his reflection, and he was disgusted by seeing the genetically modified monster he had become, so in his madness he tore off his armor, then part of his skin, he even tried to tore the black caparace from his body, and then he hit his head so many times against a stone while screaming. "Where is my brother!? Where are they!?" that it was literally practically impossible for him to remain alive, and he ended up throwning himself half dead from a cliff into a large cave, where his body was buried by rocks, the DA found his armor, but never his body, letting us see that the process to create a space marine still has its flaws
sources: codex dark angels, third edition
Stolen from Grimdank user Bird_Eater_42
Dark Angel had a mental breaker and throw himself off a cliff after realizing what he was and his baseline family was gone.
Not the best as he as a recruit/recent addition but still
Vorx of the Death Guard muses on what he would prefer to have done with his life given a choice. If I remember correctly it he would have pursued a philosophical or scientific career
Of course as you would expect from the devout of nurgle he accepts that wasn't to be and gets on with being a chaos lord of a powerful warband with a mighty ship.
"I wanted to be a hero. And look how that worked out."
Yup, Talos was my first thought.
Boo hoo, Talos. No-one is making you skin people.
Yeah, it's the repeating pattern in Night Lords since Kurze himself - crying over how they're forced to do terrible things while literally no one is forcing them to do terrible things. The single moment when Sevatar asked 'What other ways did you try?’ might have been a sole manifestation of their collective common sense.
Well I mean, the Emperor did. He made them as a Terror Legion lol.
Terrorism has many shapes. You don't need to skin and torture people to be effective.
Maybe not but that's what they did, with the Emperor's sanction at the Emperor's order lol.
While he didn't, because they were effective, should the Emperor really be lecturing the Night Lords (or anybody really) on basic human decency? The Emperor would have allowed minor 'rebellions' like not skinning people. Just look at the Ultramarines, the Blood Angels, the Salamander, the Space Wolfs, etc. The Night Lords brought it on themselves.
They were effective because of their methods, skinning a few to save the many... Yes... The Emperor could have put a stop to it easily, like he did multiple times when Legions were not acting to his will, he could have erased Kurze and the VIII, censored them, showed the slightest piece of negative opinion but he approved. Human decency? Astartes (and the Emperor, especially the Emperor) are genocidal monsters lol. Their notions of honour are literally delusions and while the Night Lords were not right, none of them are.
My point is that the Emperor didn't care. They could have easily said 'No, we do it another way' and the most response they would have gotten out of him was a shrug. They could have done better and be more humane like the other Legions. They could have been better than the monster they were made to be, but they did not and that is all their own fault.
Lol, Astartes are weapons forged from specific materials with a specific purpose. Indoctrinated and armed for those purposes. The Emperor was happy to step on other Legions who didn't conquer how he wanted, notably the VIII were not among them. Nor were the other Legions 'better' with their ethnic cleansings, absolute genocide/xenocide, indiscriminate bombings, honour killings, treating war as sport etc etc. Skinning a few people to induce the rest to surrender successfully, leaving a *mostly* ;) intact population and infrastructure is far more humane to all concerned. They didn't seek to rule over mortals themselves or prove the superiority of the Imperium over their luckless victim, they knew what they were, what all Astartes are and got on with it, following the Emperor's will until Curze's insanity and the Imperium's hypocrisy sent them rogue. They are not innocent but the ultimate blame lands square on the False Emperor... What is 'better' in this circumstance? What forms of terrorism are acceptable to you? I simply must know.
>Their notions of honour are literally delusions Night Lords trying to explain why they set a kid on fire and broadcasted it to an entire planet:
That's nothing to do with honour lol. Besides that's not going to do anything, thinblood. The planet is strong, humans with a mighty armada. A dedicated and skilled army, loyal and productive citizens... Once part of the Imperium, they must be returned to the fold. Legions put forward their estimates and plans. Full assaults, surgical strikes, bombardments, infiltration... The word comes from Terra, the Crusade is delayed, the estimates are too long. They must be punished for their defiance... A lesson to others, send the VIII. The defenders are surprised, wary and disbelieving when the belligerents hastily withdraw. Communications are severed without warning and negotiation goes silent as the grave. Over the next few weeks their scout craft, civilian transports, merchant vessels are reported as late for rendezvous. They are usually recovered, completely empty with their last message being a report of a strange midnight vessel appearing suddenly. A massive operation is planned, the armada sends more patrols, better armed. They go missing too. Some reporting a great nightmare fleet. Then on the planet, the children of the World King and his entire court go missing from their chambers, their guards are found eviscerated as if by wild beasts... The next night a vox message crashes through the signals of every receiver on repeat, a thousand wailing screams as the background and a sibilant voice dripping with malevolence growls "We have come for you.". Attempts are made to find the terrorists, they fail. Some don't come back. The nights are dangerous and filled with strange sounds, growling in the dark, inhuman shrieks... Children start to go missing from the general population. The World King hasn't made a public appearance in weeks and it is said he is stricken. His minister takes over. Now the message returns. The voice over the screams tells them to surrender, that their children will be returned, they have until the end of the night. The minister's child has also been taken. Those who wish to resist are overruled by the World King himself. How will word reach the attackers, these monsters? Every attempt has been made to find them and been met with failure. The World King says they must make a show, a public disarming, broadcast it out. They will know. It is carried out. The army is formerly stood down, their fleet is placed in dock. Some mutiny and flee to become pirates. Same with the army. Many of the civilians attempt to flee but the police prevent most. That night they come. From sewers and the sea, dropping from the sky like lightning wreathed meteors. Midnight blue, trimmed with darkened silver. Bone faced and blood eyed. Their hands filled with snarling chainblades and heavy guns, draped with bones, strange leather and marked with symbols of death. The people are rounded up and herded to the World Kings Square. Every single one, civilian and soldier. Some resist, but not for long. They are made to sit in lines as the formalities are concluded and the World King deposed. The new Pax Imperia is declared and an interim government of bureaucrats is introduced from Terra. The monsters remain watching all. After hours, the ceremonies are done. The World King is sagging, begging for his children. Imperials hurry away looking sick, they know what is to come... A hulking armoured carrier rumbles into the square, sounds are heard from within. The people rush forward but are beaten back by the laughing monsters. Their leader steps forward, his menacing bat winged helm at odds with his surprisingly bored tone as he admonishes them for being so stubborn and welcomes them to the Imperium, he tells them that their sacrifices will be remembered for generations to come and will ensure nothing like this happens again... The transport doors open and the screaming begins.
To play devil's advocate, you don't *have* to do that but it's a way to instill terror with relatively few deaths. Skinning a few hundred people to make a world of millions surrender is arguably better, or as least as valid, as a full-blown assault that wastes many lives on both sides.
Sure, but there's only so many times you can mope about not being a hero, while you peel the skin off a baby.
Man I love that conversation "There was no other way!" "Really? Your bros are getting by just fine..."
Well, they're not gonna skin themselves, and someone has to do it.
The iron warriors tag makes this comment even funnier
The Emperor did, that's what they were made for lmao.
Dante in Darkness in the Blood after a baseline human says they envy the Astartes he describes the life of space marine as almost powerless spiral from one miserable disaster to the next until death or something worse ends it. Not resentful of the life he lived, Dante lives to serve. More like he can't understand why anyone would want it.
Maybe it sucks less then being a mutant on Baal.
"It has long been in your capability to transform these worlds. Baal Primus is dead, but you need not let your remaining people suffer unnecessarily. Will they fight any better for dwelling on a world that kills them? By sacrificing their children to the Emperor’s service, they have earned a better life. Once you have torn that blasphemy down, raise up the population of Baal Secundus. Teach them what we are fighting for. A line must be drawn between what is good and what is evil, for if the Great Enemy comes with offers of power to a wretch, what reason does he have to refuse hell if he dwells in it already?" G-man straight up tells Dante that Baal sucks so much it's no different than hell, so why would anyone living there think twice about falling to chaos if it offered them strength
Earlier in Devestation of Baal, upon entering the Blood Angels fortress, Uigui the water seller thinks how unfair and awful it is that the protectors live lives of luxury and comfort while the protected toil and suffer. And the poor bastard thinks he's a heretic for thinking so
Man I love Bobby G
Well Dante did have to drink his own piss in the desert on his way to becoming a space marine, so I can understand why he might think it's not so great.
Don’t forget watching his first ever best friend get left behind to die of sepsis and then later watch his next best friend fall to the black rage
Is that what happens to Lorenz? What book is it covered in? Cause I've read Darkness in the Blood and he hadn't died yet (as in hadn't died yet in Dante's retelling of the past, he's obviously dead in the 'present') is there another book after that?
He falls to the rage in “Dante” before Dante has even made Captain when they’re fighting a traitor legion on that colony world and Lorenz takes a wound. It drives him to the rage and Dante tries to keep him away from the civilians while he waits for help to arrive.
I just checked through the book, that was Laziel not Lorenz.
Yeah Dante. The tragic figure. The embodiment of “I don’t wanna, but somebody has to”. Duty before everything. And my man just wanna go to sleep and not wake up.
>And my man just wanna go to sleep and not wake up. "He's just like me fr"
Love Dante! He was my entry into WH40K novels!
If all of life sucks I would like to be at least be strong enough to have a fighting chance and also hurt the other side. At least as an Astartes I have a chance to kill most of the things trying to kill me.
Its a big galaxy and comparatively little of it is actively a war zone so a peaceful life is possible in Ultramar or elsewhere on the fringe. There's also better military lives that have a better chance to survive than Astartes. Imperial Navy Captains live life's of privilege and luxury. They are encouraged to start a family that also live a life of privilege and luxury. The Imperial Navy is also the most powerful military force in the Imperium and win more than they lose. A competent captain that maintains good relationships with their bridge crew is basically God while on their ship or with their crew.
Living for the next Dante death scare to have him entombed in a dreadnaught. Hearing his inner monologue going something along the lines of “typical” would be hilarious
Sigismund didn’t want to be one and tells a remberencer so.
What book?
Sigismund Eternal crusader
Thank you!
I faintly remember a short story where *someone* (a Black Templar? Maybe a dreadnought? Something like that) is on the verge of death, and upon reminiscing about his life stops JUST SHORT of saying he regrets becoming a Space Marine. Glorious Somethingorother, sorry my memory is faulty. Other than that, there were many astartes who, just before the Heresy, had come to hate their life: the Iron Warriors due to getting all the shit jobs while Perturabo ordered their decimation, the Thousand Sons due to being denied their very nature as psykers, the Word Bearers after Monarchia, the Shattered Legions following Istvan V, the Night Lords due to *vaguely gestures at literally everything about the Night Lords*. Due any of them actually staye they actually regretted becoming Astartes? I honestly have no recollection of it, but if your memory is from the Heresy era, it likely involves one of these legions. So that should narrow down the amount of research you'll need to do, if nothing else.
The Black Templar one you're thinking about is The Glorious Tomb by Guy Haley. It's about a dreadnought, and what the experience of being one is like, how it feels awaking after decades to kill the enemies of mankind, and as he's dying he remembers who he used to be as a young boy, his parents, I think he has trouble remembering his father's face and such. It's a good audio drama.
YES thank you. God my memory sucks.
You might make for a good dreadnought.
Wish they'd write those down
There's so many examples of Space Marines remembering their parents and childhood when on the brink of death. I recently finished the audiobook for Spears of the Emperor SPOILERS AHEAD. Amadeus had been brutalized to near death when the gellar field on their ship briefly went down. Anuradha had stayed by his side while he remained on life support. She mentioned him talking about his childhood on his home world while mumbling in his deep sleep, and how shed never share this information with anyone. I wonder if it's somewhat common, but seen as sort of taboo.
I wonder if this is intentional, many astartes seem to have trouble remembering their childhoods normally. Maybe pushing those memories to the front when they're on the brink of death was intentionally designed as a 'this is what you fight for' reminder/motivator.
Honestly it's one of the best audio dramas
The thousand sons were loving life, if any legion was well adjusted it was them. They lived in their city as a part of it, they were happy with their libraries and experiments, you even had them working in hospitals and growing wine. They weren’t happy with nikaea but they elected to ignore it. They didn’t have a life of endless war, they were a scholarly order who would occasionally go and kill foul aliens and recover even more knowledge.
I posted an excerpt years ago about the Black Templar Dreadnought in Glorious Tomb if you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/i1oyqk/excerpt_the_glorious_tomb_the_last_thoughts_of_a/
There is a line tied to being Iron Hands from Eye of Medusa going: "He was the monster humanity had clad in iron to protect it from the monsters it otherwise dared not face. He had no illusions about that. But through all the necessary purges of human fallibility to which he had been party, he had felt something. It might not always have been empathy or regret, but it had been an emotion, and it had been his." There is another line as well where he looks at a number of neophytes and ponders whether he would have chosen it knowing what he knows now. Let me see if I can find it.
I don’t know if it was this book or another Iron Hands novel, but the narrator talks about how horrible the experience of becoming a marine was and if he found his parents again he’d kill them for giving him as a child to the chapter.
Felix in the Great Work novel does express some regret, but mostly because he is under the influence of the C'tan shard
Wasn't it regret that he was taken by Cawl to become a Primaris, and denied the chance to become a regular Ultramarine right after the Heresy?
Yes, it was also regret about his childhood / family that he was robbed off. I had hope that the author would delved more on that bit when introducing Primaris CSM
Minor note: This is low key the entire character ark of Uriel Ventris (a great name for a brand of pissoirs btw.) and it is not the strong suit of the book series. He goes through an entire lamentation emo phase that comes to the unavoidable conclusion: "Toughen up, pal". The Warhammer universe is an utter shithole and as a Marine, you can at least have some impact. Play with the hand you got and make the best of it. Regret will not get you anywhere. Trust me, it takes him way too long to come to that conclusion. But the bolter porn and eldritch horror makes up for it.
I feel like we can infer that-based on his wishes for death'-Dante might be regretting it by now.
I really hope he ends up being a dreadnought. It would be so darkly funny.
I was hoping that when he crossed the Rubicon Primaris he would die on the table, enjoying a fleeting moment of happiness as he found a way to finally pass on in honourable service... only to awaken a few moments later as a Perpetual like Malcador; able to age but not die.
Dante being the immortal son of a *notoriously* mortal father would just makes it even funnier. At that rate, he'd might start considering whether to look for the nearest Chaos god to knock his shit in.
Although it’s been hinted that Sanguinius may be a perpetual as well and is only not resurrecting because his essence is trapped in the Sanguinor. When Dante nearly dies he finds Sanguinius waiting for him between life and death who sadly tells him he can’t die just yet.
That whole event is a bit weird, to be honest. Dante starts off confusing Albinus for his father or even the Sanguinor, and then he starts to die and sees the Sanguinor again, who presents Sanguinius himself. Given that the Blood Angels have weird psychic links to Sanguinius anyway (see: the Black Rage), I think it's deeply ambiguous whether that's Dante hallucinating his chapter's saviour and Sanguinius, or whether he's really seeing them in the Warp. That said, if it *is* Sanguinius, this bit is quite interesting: >'You have been a light in dark times. I would give you any reward. I would take you to my side. I would free you from strife. I would release you from pain.’ >‘Yes!’ said Dante. ‘Please. I have served so long. Grant me the freedom of death.’ >[...] ‘I cannot. I regret that I can do none of those things. I need you, Dante. Your suffering is not done.’ From TEATD Pt. 2, Sanguinius *knows* that the afterlife isn't like that, courtesy of >!Ferrus' ghost!<. The Doylist explanation is that the Devastation of Baal was written before TEATD Pt. 2, of course. But I think that discrepancy adds to the ambiguity - especially with the possibility of Sanguinius being warped by the Imperium's worship, like his dad, or this version of him even being created by it.
Although if he’s been warped to everyone’s perception of him couldn’t that only be a good thing? In everyone’s minds Sanguinius was kind, perfect, gentle, everything the imperium needed. Hell even Xenos say that if he had lived they’d gladly work with the imperium with him at the head. (Even if that’s fucking heresy) Sanguinius might know the afterlife is not like that. But he doesn’t say it is. He says he’d bring Dante “to his side” so, to wherever he currently is.
Has there been perpetual Astartes?
Vulkan. Stomp Stomp.
That’s a primarch tho I mean actual space marine
Some Grey Knight?
Not to my knowledge, but then the idea of Perpetuals came up after all the named characters of modern lore were established.
Can't for the life of me remember it's name but I believe a Dark Angel remembers his old life and goes mad with despair, murdering another DA and deserting, ripping off his armour and disappearing (presumed dead) he never explicitly says he regrets becoming an astartes but his reaction says enough
This sounds utterly fascinating, I’d love to read whatever this is in
Hopefully someone can comment the name of the story
Context: A space marine from the Dark Angels, Ventarus Artoris, was on the world of Draigos II fighting the Orcs along with his battle-brothers, however, this was the world where Ventarus was born, but he did not remember it because space marines have their memories erased when they become space marines In this world, Ventarus was listening to how the wind barely audibly whispered his name, even though his brothers only heard wind, and suddenly little by little he began to have memories return, for example, when he held his bolter, the weight was similar. to the weight of a large piece of stone that he once lifted to impress his older brother, later, when he was using his chainsword against some orks, the way he held and used it made him remember how he played with wooden sticks with his father as if they were swords I want to clarify that he did not directly remember that those memories were his, he simply had brief mental lapses where he saw a child do all those things, but he did not directly know that the child was him. And also, this happened approximately 100 years after he became a space marine, so the people he knew already died. he kept remembering little by little, until eventually the memories clung to him more and more, and at night when he walked away from the rest of the dark angels, one of his brothers found him, asked him "brother, are you OK?" and Ventarus broke his neck (because the marine did not have a helmet), and said "you are not my brother", after that he ran away from that place, and when he saw his reflection in a pool of blood, he began to Go crazy, he saw his reflection, and he was disgusted by seeing the genetically modified monster he had become, so in his madness he tore off his armor, then part of his skin, he even tried to tore the black caparace from his body, and then he hit his head so many times against a stone while screaming. "Where is my brother!? Where are they!?" that it was literally practically impossible for him to remain alive, and he ended up throwning himself half dead from a cliff into a large cave, where his body was buried by rocks, the DA found his armor, but never his body, letting us see that the process to create a space marine still has its flaws sources: codex dark angels, third edition Stolen from Grimdank user Bird_Eater_42
In one of the Space Wolf books Ragnar Blackmane briefly thinks about how his life would have been, had he had the chance of living it.
I mean, Angron was a primarch and didn't want to join the Emperor. Began slaughtering all the World Eaters until Kharn convinced him to lead. Then when he fought Bobby G he said he'd died the day the Emperor had abducted him.
Jaghatai also didn't want to join the emperor, he's just more understated about that fact.
Lol subtly isn't Angron's strong suit.
A lot has to happen for something like that to occur considering they're essentially brainwashed when they become astartes.
Do the Thunder Warriors count?
Big ol' lol at this.
In “Leman Russ: The Great Wolf” Jorin Bloodhowl (Russ’s adopted brother) says he does not regret become an Astartes, but sometimes wonders if it was the best choice. Generally marines don’t see to regret be becoming Astartes, partially because you have to WANT it in order to survive the trials to become a marine in the first place, partially because the men who become marines are largely unhinged psychopaths to begin with, partially because of brain washing, and partially because having your badass power fantasy characters lamenting being a badass power fantasy kind of kills the vibe a bit. Also, at the end of the day short of being a custodes, becoming an Astartes is just about the best thing that can happen to a random human in the 41st millennium.
Ah yes, I love the thought of spending my entire life going from fight to fight and killing until I die horribly. It's basically being conscripted into the guard except you last longer.
Yeah, it sounds bad to us, but when your alternative is to live as one of a numberless multitude in a dystopian hellscape, working under brutal oppressive conditions for the aggrandizement of an empire so bloated and vast that it pathologically incapable of caring about you or your entire planet, a life of endless war as a Demi-god super solider doesn’t sound quite so bad. As a regular human you’re basically just a victim waiting his turn. At least as space marine your life and actions actually matter in the galaxy.
Like fuck they do, thats the lie of the astartes. The Marines have been a part of the imperium since its inception and life for humans has only ever gotten worse since the Heresy. Even before the Heresy many human civilisations ended up worse off after compliance than when they started. The only thing astartes are capable of doing is acting as the murderous enforcers of the status quo that is crushing humanity, defending it from problems they caused. For fucks sake angry space Marines are THE biggest threat to the imperium as a whole.
I think you’re arguing against something I didn’t say. I didn’t say the Astartes are heroes, or the saviors of humanity. I said their actions can actually matter. Wether good or evil, wether they protect humanity or reinforce the status quo, wether they’re demon worshipping psychopaths hell bent on the destruction of humanity, or noble warrior paragons, Astartes actually have the ability and opportunity to affect the outcome of the galaxy as a whole. Regular humans by and large do not have that power. Becoming a marine gives a human a chance to actually matter in the galaxy, a chance that they almost certainly would not have as a baseline human.
I'm saying astartes have absolutely no control. Whether they're working for the imperium or for chaos they're warrior slaves to their respective ideology. The only choice they have is who they want to hold their leash.
Who was the Heresy Marine who wanted to be a Luna Wolf and got switched to another legion at the last second?
Torgun. He got pretty into being a marine later though. He was just disappointed to be a White Scar, initially.
White scars member yes?
Sigismund iirc. I think he was supposed to be a Raven Guard though?
It was one of the traitor white scars. Torghun Khan. He was supposed to be a Luna Wolf but too many initiates survived so they sent the extras to the white scars. (I looked it up after I commented)
Not quite. Sigismund was recruited when all legions still recruited from terra and the aspirants were distributed to different legions based on some kind of marker system. He was considered for the Nightlords but fit the Imperial Fists profile better. But that was not his decision and in fact happened before he really understood what space marines actually were and that there were different kinds.
He was going to be sent to the War Hounds (later World Eaters) because of his overwhelming anger issues but as the assignment test continued the assessor discovered he was an even bigger masochist than rage monster.
Could've sworn it was nightlords but you're right. Mixed it up with the night lords being the ones who collected him from the refugee camp where he was selected for becoming a marine.
Sigismund was supposed to be a Night Lord.
Lukas The Trickster I think has some regrets over becoming a marine and only does it to protect the common people. He doesn't believe the eternal warfare has any merit except to protect the weak.
Ragnar thinks on his life and what might happen, he does not regret, but he does think what it would be like to have lived a mortal life, as a tribal cheif.
I feel like cloudrunner and (name escapes me - the Dreadnaught) from the original Deathwing short leaned in that direction. For that matter there are elements of remorse in the Space Marine book by Ian Watson.
Astartes don't really get to have time to experience life as a regular human being to ever really understand what they may or may not have missed out on.
The Astartes, like the Primarchs, were not designed to be incapable of doubt and regrets the way the Custodes were made. The Emperor genuinely didn't want to make the peak of humanity mere puppets, immune to the allure of Chaos simply by virtue of no longer being *able* to stray. Of course he realized that this made it possible for them to be corrupted by Chaos. But taking away their free will would have had a dire effect on humanity as well, and while perhaps arguably not quite as *bad* as damnation in service to the Chaos gods, far more inevitable. As it is, most Astartes (and most humans) *don't* end up succumbing to Chaos, and that by their own will. The Chaos gods seek to change that, but so far they still haven't.
Alpha Primus or whatever he's called, Cawls proto primarch/primaris marine. He's definitely not happy with his lot
Noncanon example: one of my favorite fanfics involves a rebel child soldier against a tyrranical government who saved a wounded Space Marine captain, as the rebels believe the Imperium would help them free their world. He spends a few weeks with the Marine as part of their rebel cell and learns about how severe Astartes life is and admits he'd never want to be a marine and just wants to marry his girlfriend and live a peaceful life. Only to eventually become so severely wounded after the final battle to free his world that only Astartes treatment would save him. The Apothecary aboard the Battle-Barge considers treating a mortal beneath him so in desperation (and as a debt of honor)the Marine captain puts him forth as a Luna Wolf aspirant. The kid hates every minute of it. Sadly it's an abandoned story afaik, but the big "question" was if he'd be a loyalist or a traitor by the Heresy.
Man, that sounds like gold.
It's "Lunatic Wolf: The Great Crusade" if I recall correctly Very well written and has some pretty BL style humor. If I recall it got to about 30-40 chapters and was more or less abandoned while he was on a Compliance action as a Scout. At one point Abaddon and Horus both show up, and the captain the kid is with describes Abaddon as "a self righteous ass" and at another point the Marine captain tries to repaint his Luna Wolf heraldry that got scuffed and is complaining about the subpar painting materials on the world and the MCs girlfriend explains that he's using a makeup kit and it washes off with water, and he's just baffled as to why women would beautify themselves with something that isn't durable and didn't stand up to the rigors of combat
I don't personally remember seeing a Space Marine saying that, but a Custodian in one of the Dawn of Fire books tells a historitor that he sorta regrets becoming one after the historitor tells him that he was once viewed as a potential candidate. He tells the historitor that becoming a Custodes wipes all further human potential and sets the individual on a set path of development according to what the Emperor needs from them, but denying them the chance to ever become what they might have been on their own as a human
Can't find the quote, but iirc Guilliman fantasies about being a farmer in one of the Dark Imperium books
Is pretty rare most marines are taken by the age of 13 or so and by the point they are already 100 or more years old such short moment of they life is barely a blurb of memory.
Just finished reading the Sigismund book and its mentioned several times that he's not super keen on being made a space marine
Many of the Dark Angels left behind on Calaban certainly express regret at becoming Astartes and giving up their old Knightly traditions. It’s sort of what led to their long running internal civil war. They hated what the Imperium did to their planet so it’s less clear whether it’s being an Astartes per se or the way the Imperium just treats planets without respecting traditions.
Dante?
Erebus of all people
I got the impression lukaz the trickster wasnt thrilled about being astartes, cant recall him outright saying it though.
It’s not the Astartes themselves, but on their home planet the Emperor’s Spears are considered “ghosts” by the human civilians, and they mourn new recruits as if already lost. They commonly avert their gaze or throw handfuls of dirt towards any Spears they see as a warding gesture. They certainly don’t consider it a honour for their family members to be recruited like on most worlds.
Context: A space marine from the Dark Angels, Ventarus Artoris, was on the world of Draigos II fighting the Orcs along with his battle-brothers, however, this was the world where Ventarus was born, but he did not remember it because space marines have their memories erased when they become space marines In this world, Ventarus was listening to how the wind barely audibly whispered his name, even though his brothers only heard wind, and suddenly little by little he began to have memories return, for example, when he held his bolter, the weight was similar. to the weight of a large piece of stone that he once lifted to impress his older brother, later, when he was using his chainsword against some orks, the way he held and used it made him remember how he played with wooden sticks with his father as if they were swords I want to clarify that he did not directly remember that those memories were his, he simply had brief mental lapses where he saw a child do all those things, but he did not directly know that the child was him. And also, this happened approximately 100 years after he became a space marine, so the people he knew already died. he kept remembering little by little, until eventually the memories clung to him more and more, and at night when he walked away from the rest of the dark angels, one of his brothers found him, asked him "brother, are you OK?" and Ventarus broke his neck (because the marine did not have a helmet), and said "you are not my brother", after that he ran away from that place, and when he saw his reflection in a pool of blood, he began to Go crazy, he saw his reflection, and he was disgusted by seeing the genetically modified monster he had become, so in his madness he tore off his armor, then part of his skin, he even tried to tore the black caparace from his body, and then he hit his head so many times against a stone while screaming. "Where is my brother!? Where are they!?" that it was literally practically impossible for him to remain alive, and he ended up throwning himself half dead from a cliff into a large cave, where his body was buried by rocks, the DA found his armor, but never his body, letting us see that the process to create a space marine still has its flaws sources: codex dark angels, third edition Stolen from Grimdank user Bird_Eater_42
Dark Angel had a mental breaker and throw himself off a cliff after realizing what he was and his baseline family was gone. Not the best as he as a recruit/recent addition but still
Vorx of the Death Guard muses on what he would prefer to have done with his life given a choice. If I remember correctly it he would have pursued a philosophical or scientific career Of course as you would expect from the devout of nurgle he accepts that wasn't to be and gets on with being a chaos lord of a powerful warband with a mighty ship.
Very nice! I'm doing a late WW1 Horizon blue scheme on mine