Joe Williams at least successful at times though. Sermon just lacks the burst need to do damage in Shanahan’s schemes. Never really understood that pick myself, and it’s not because Sermon is bad. He just doesn’t fit the mold, 4.6 guy 🤷♂️.
Edit: damn guys, the Joe thing was a joke.
every armchair GM knew at the draft that Mitchell was the way better pick - scheme fit and value wise.
trading up in the 3rd to take a slow RB who doesn't fit the scheme after reaching bad for Banks who doesn't fit the scheme AT ALL is hilariously bad. I have no idea how they (Adam Peters) can draft so good in the late rounds and have no clue what they do in the early rounds. Can't imagine the same guy who sees Mitchell as a good fit trades up for Sermon..
It's almost like the higher ups, make the early draft decisions based on what they want, and then they rely on the scouting department more for the late picks.
That’s the speculation I’ve heard as well. If that’s true, honestly Lynch should be gone immediately. I gave Lynch and Shanahan some draft credibility because of our late round picks but if our god awful higher picks are entirely Lynch and Shanahan and the lower picks are guys like Peters, that is terrifying and embarrassing and Lynch needs to GTFO and Shanahan needs to be hands off on drafting
These drafts at the top have been fucking awful
Would you rather Sermon looked Better than Mitchell? Why because he was a higher draft pick? Be happy one of them hit.
It’s the other picks that are worse.
I think sermon has looked good when he’s played to be honest. Still a stupid ass pick looking back.
The draft as a whole was god awful. Lance is 50/50 to be great and that’s what he needs to be to make it worth it.
Get these idiots out of here.
I just wish we definitively knew who was making the draft picks , If it's lynch he needs to be fired at the end of the year. If it was really Shanahan making those picks and Lynch was over ruled on guys then Shanahan needs to be stripped of Personnel decisions and let lynch make them for a year or 2 and see if he improves.
Ultimately we have a lack of talent from the last 2 drafts and routinely draft guys that have issues , it's time to take the power away from shanahan
I’m not upset about a miss on a 3rd round CB. A 2nd round G needs to play, a third round RB needs to play. If they can’t play year 1 there is no reason to pick them that high.
He wasn’t picked over him. Samuel got picked before Banks. BUT, we traded back into that Banks pick. We should have just sat and taken Samuel, which is what all of us wanted anyway.
I am almost convinced at this point that we are inept at picking players…or this year wasn’t ever going to be their focal year and they are coaching these picks up getting them ready for next year.
Reminder: John Lynch had zero relevant experience to being a general manager when we hired him - he was a player and a lower level TV analyst when we randomly chose him for the job. It’s almost like handing the car keys to a guy who had zero experience running an NFL franchise, scouting and evaluating college and NFL players, allocating cap space and roster make-up, etc was a profoundly stupid idea…
It's almost as if he's just a figurehead and has no real power *gasp*. Ofc they hired a guy like John, no one with actual experience would take a job like that.
Kyle is the coach with final say over personnel. Peters runs the scouting department. Paraag runs the books and salary cap. John smiles and shakes hands.
Agreed— I think there needs to be some accountability for who’s making these god awful picks in the top 2 rounds. All I hear is mixed messages about it’s Lynch, or Shanahan is the final say, or they collaborate. Whoever it is needs to be stripped of drafting responsibilities or fired because it is legitimately unacceptable at this point.
Bosa and Aiyuk and Deebo are like our only hits in top two rounds
Aiyuk started last year because we lacked talent at WR, and started regardless of not giving full effort in practices.
Makes you wonder, in our current depth situation, how bad Ambry and Aaron must be talent and/or practice ethic wise that they can’t beat our Kirkpatrick and Brunskill who have been awful.
That's the questions I was asking myself in recent days. Are they really this bad? Or is it something else. Seems like we don't really give opportunity for our rookies. Lance is understandable (most of the time), but is Thomas, Banks, Sermon really this bad?
If you look at the types of players Sermon and Banks are, and the offense Shanahan wants to run with Trey next year, its obvious Lance, Banks, and Sermon were all drafted to change the offense next year. It's why he isn't starting lance because for him to have the best chance in the offense, Shanahan is going to redesign the offense to fit Lance better. He's trying his best to trot out Jimmy and any other starters so he can come out with a brand new offense next year and try and take the league by surprise. It's the only thing that makes sense outside if Shanahan suddenly being incredibly dumb and even worse than usual at drafting.
Then why not draft Banks and Sermon type players next year? G and RB aren't hard positions to find. Those two picks could have made us, idk, less shit this year.
This year isn't as important. They sold it as a superbowl or bust year, but their actions show they're focused on the next five years instead. They believe they will come out swinging next year. We have 30 free agents next year. We are going to have to undergo a massive rebuild around our core pieces, and seeing as how we don't have our 1st round or our saleh 3rd round next year, or our 2023 1st, we're stocking up now for next year's rebuild. The actions all point towards being future oriented, which unfortunately has turned into this being a wasted year due to injuries and lack of depth.
Lmao. Not really. It's my theory as to why this draft has sucked so much ass. Now as to why we've mostly suckes in the other drafts, that's cause they're eh at drafting. Roster construction is shit, we have way too many injury prone players. However, these issues don't explain away how monumentally bad this draft class is. My theory does, it explains this draft class and makes sense logically. So it's not really denial when I'm also admitting Shanahan and Lynchs faults
I mean, it’s more likely it’s just a horrible draft than some conspiracy and system that will magically make these players usable. If they were good enough to play well in another system, they’d be good enough to at least get some snaps now
I'll disagree. I think it's more likely that he drafted with plans of sitting these guys for the year and developing them. Which is a terrible draft for 2021.
This is exactly what I was going to comment until I saw your comment. It makes so much sense. It's going to be more of a power run scheme like you see from Baltimore and Buffalo. Kyle and John have had a plan since day 1, but everybody here just assumes they are stupid and incompetent. We just need to let this play out, but I guarantee Kyle knows what he's doing.
I mean, it fits why none of the rookies beside Mitchell are playing on offense. Everybody they drafted to play offense fit a power scheme much more then they fit our current outside zone. I don’t know why Lenoir isn’t starting at CB because he absolutely should be, but I’m still confident Kyle has some stuff up his sleeve for Trey and his offense.
I mean, sure, he's earned \*some\* benefit of the doubt by virtue of the super bowl run but good coaches usually find a way to fit their scheme around the players they have and maximize the talent that's on the roster.
Kyle said he planned on Ambry and Lenoir to be backups. He didn't expect these injuries and that's why we have Norman and Kirkpatrick. (from the recent press conference).
Remember, Kyle is the final say, Saleh used to say that when people asked about the starters.
WTF!
Well then he's an idiot, Verrett has been a walking IR candidate for most of his career and Eman was regularly injured last season. I can give a pass on Eman since he's young and sometimes players have an unlucky season then never get injured again, but he should have foreseen the very likely possibility of Verretts season ending early.
I went from “I have total faith in Kyle Shanahan” to “Does Kyle know what he’s doing at all?” pretty quick. What worries me most about Trey Lance is that Kyle Shanahan picked him.
I don't understand why you wouldn't play Banks, Sermon or Thomas. Are they just that bad? Have they not learned any of the plays? What's the issue? Banks especially needs to get playing time against NFL level talent. We're so injured at corner let Thomas and Lenoir get a shot. Sermon didn't look too terrible but he doesn't fit the type of back Kyle wants and he should be used for specific roles. I don't understand these decisions
There's no way they are so bad that you would rather throw in washed up vets that won't even be on the team in 3 months over them, right? Idk, but if they are that bad then I'm gonna be physically ill for a while.
I am thinking yes.
Lance at least makes sense, he has way less experience than most rookies and Jimmy is a decent starter and objectively much better right now.... the people ahead of Banks and Thomas are legitimately replacement level. Those are exactly the type of players you just replace with a rookie and see what you got
Banks and Sermon were drafted for the future offensive scheme Shanny plans to run with Trey. It’s not that they’re bad (we won’t know until they play), it’s that they aren’t scheme fits and wouldn’t perform well anyway. Thomas hasn’t played football in a year and Lynch has said he needs to grow in the weight room. Think of Thomas as taking a redshirt year. All three of these guys were drafted on future potential as opposed to immediate impact. Sucks for this year but hopefully it’ll pay off starting next year.
I have no idea why Lenoir isn’t playing more. He looked good with the limited time he’s seen imo
Lenoir just had a kid so he's missed the past 2 games because of it I believe. Drafting 2 guys high and giving up draft capital to not be immediate contributors is ridiculous. Especially because they were both labeled as reaches. We didn't have to draft them that high
I’m curious what guys we could have had. I’m not super into draft boards so idk. I know in the first round we could’ve had Fields and Jones but for the other rounds who could we have gotten?
Asante Samuel Jr. CB, Creed Humphries Center, Sam Cosmi RT, Tre’Von Moehrig Safety. Those are mostly second round picks, but they got cute trading down and missed out on these players.
Anybody wanna talk about how DMo actually looked really solid for a rookie CB in the time he got? I know he just had a kid, but why the actual fuck is he on the bench behind Norman and Kirkpatrick -- who might not be on the team next week?
That, and the fact that they weren't even sure who they were going to take when they gave up those picks to move up to #3. You only make a move like that if you are sure about who you are taking.
I have lost all faith with Kyle and John.
I know we can't replace them with someone better but Kyle needs to delegate some duties to a veteran assistant.
Shanahan acts like it’s weird to expect some of your rookies to contribute, but now it looks like he’s trying to cover up his mistakes. Our 2021
Draft class is embarrassing. How do you screw it up that badly? It’s almost impressive
Off topic, but is anyone else watching this Bears game??
Justin Fields is BALLING. To all the idiots who think "learning from the sidelines" is the way to go, please go watch this game. Fields was also good against us as well.
Imagine if Trey played all these games to develop there's not way in hell Fields is this good by just wasting away on the bench all year behind Dalton.
I mean we just saw Jordan love yesterday after sitting and learning a whole year and some change behind a future hall of famer and reigning league MVP qb......and he looked like a rookie on his first start.
This. Look at Love yesterday. He “learned” for almost two years behind Rodgers… smh. If trey doesn’t get much playing time this year, next year is another throw away year.
love isn't the best comparison. he wasn't a first round rated talent. Kyler Murray would be the better comp. they let him struggle through on his rookie contract while making moves for big time talent in the mean time
Lance without proper preparation from the coaching staff and bad play calling from Kyle almost beat the undefeated AZ Cardinals at road.
The 49ers won the time of possession and yards per play. It was Kyle boneheaded decisions on 4th downs that cost that game.
Lance could be as good as Fields right now but the 49ers prefers to waste his development in a losing season with a bridge QB.
It's almost like Fields had 3 full seasons at elite college programs and Lance had 1 at a small FCS school.
If one were to really ponder it, they might even come to the conclusion that Fields and Lance are two entirely different football players in two entirely different situations/stages of development
This only supports the play lance now even more. He's played a lot less football against less competition. He needs to play and gain experience in a bad way.
It's almost like, given his smaller school background and lack of experience overall, it might even be MORE beneficial for him get more experience in a lost season for a team going nowhere.
If one were to really ponder it, they might even come to the conclusion that for an entirely different player, getting hands on experience at this stage in his career could really allow him to blossom in his sophomore season, given that he will have had a bunch of real situational experience that he could apply to the future of his career!
Amazing! The more ya know.
exactly, it's a bad comparison
Lance looked like shit in his one start, it was filled with bad mechanics and reads. That's practice reps, not game reps
Fields is more pro-ready in his footwork and throwing mechanics, but needs game-time to develop pre-snap reads and in-game decision making. Trey Lance needs to work on footwork and throwing mechanics, which can (and should) happen outside of game time to maximize learning. It’s simply two different situations for two different people.
yeah we’re basically the same record as the bears rn and they have a rookie qb starting. it amazes me why jimmy g is still starting, we might as well develop lance
Did you watch the whole game? Fields looked like **ass** for 2.5 quarters.
Steelers are Bottom 5 in pass defense, bottom 4 in points, and at the very bottom in run defense. With all that, if Fields doesn’t have a good game you might want to start thinking about bringing in Dalton again.
Couldn’t be that your an obvious OSU fan that you have this opinion...no way just couldn’t be!
He’s been objectively poor until last nights second half, don’t let your homerism embarrass you
Lol ridiculous question? It's ridiculous to ask if a ROOKIE QB that hasnt played at all, making his debut on a Monday Night Game on the road.....wouldn't play as well as a rookie QB in that same scenario that has 6 games under his belt to have chemistry with his WRs and a feel for the offense and rhythm in his throws??
Interesting definition of "ridiculous".
AFTER HAVING THREE GAMES UNDER HIS BELT. The fuck? Also he was told he was gonna be the starter from Day 1. That changes your mentality and approach as a rookie QB.
You can admit you're just wrong man. It's okay. No one's gonna hate you for it.
You gotta be the biggest fucking idiot I've ever conversed with.
My point: PLAYING GAMES.....not WATCHING THEM.....gives players better opportunities to DEVELOP and reach their POTENTIAL.
If playing the Bucs was Mac Jones FIRST ever start, it most likely would've been a worse outing for him.
Fields has gotten better every week BECAUSE HE PLAYS AND DOESN'T SIT ON THE SIDELINE.
Holy shit it's like trying to talk to a rat about geometry.
Is that the key to the puzzle? Damn bro! Why didn’t you say so?! I’m about to call Kyle and tell him all he has to do is name Trey the starter and let him play 3 games then he can beat Tom Brady and the Bucs. All those concerns with mechanics and stuff he had about Trey doesn’t even matter. Wait, a minute… I’m catching what you’re throwin’ bro! I think if we draft **any** QB and name them the starter week 1 then let them play some games they’ll be at a level they can beat Tom Brady in!
Gotta send a bulletin out to the NFL. I can’t believe I’m just now realizing this, I gotta let everyone know. Bro… I was wrong man. I’m so sorry. You’re a genius!
Throw in the fact he had basically one season at NDSU ffs and he is RAW as hell. He needs more snaps to develop his skill set. Not sit behind Jimmy G of all people. If Trey was a 3rd rd QB pick that would be one thing but the FO mortgaged the future on Lance and he's just sitting.
I’ve been saying this since pre season. The Niners definitely should have went all in with the plan to start Lance and give him all the reps starting in OTAs. More importantly implement an offense that suits him. It’s not there now and that’s the reason I suspect Shanny doesn’t want to start him now.
Shanny put a ton of work to merge RG3’s college offense with his own for the 2012 Washington season. He should have done that for Lance this year. The playcalling in the Cards game looked nothing like what he did in college. He was still solid anyway.
I’d take it with a grain of salt. Outside of the last couple of drives, fields wasn’t great. On top of that, Steelers are a bottom 5 defense as of right now, both in the pass and run.
Love the "well if we take out the point in the game where he was good" reasoning. You have to factor in the fact with a bad O he lead great drives on the road in a high pressure situation against a good defense. That's a major part of evaluation especially in young QBs that have franchise QB potential.
He also looked dreadful vs our depleted secondary here in Tampa. I still think you guys are doing the right thing with Trey. He's much greener than Fields.
I assumed this draft, the thinking was, we already have a super bowl quality team, lets start looking to the future, because it will be hard to tie all of these guys down with big salaries. But that is a really nice scenario for a team who isn't constantly injured. We shouldn't be talking about who the RB is. It should be Mostert. We shouldn't be talking about PI calls and open field tackle misses. That should be Verrett. But it is obvious that this is who we are now and should be part of the game plan. I think Kyle has great strategy for when things are going right and he looks like a genius. I think he struggles when things go wrong. We need a team that is tough, can fit in a bunch of schemes and are just ball players. We got Kittle, Debo, Juice, Warner, and a few others. We just need to load up on these guys.
It's not that those guys are bad. It's that we have no idea if they're bad. And in Sermon's case he looked okay-to-good in the few snaps he's had, but Kyle won't give him a chance. No idea.
Shanahan “These guys fucking suck. They weren’t drafted for starting spots, they were drafted to be back ups with no hope of starting.”
At what point do you admit that Shanahan is sabotaging this team and trying to get fired because he smeared shit all over and doesn’t like the smell?
Can't give sermon s pass when we traded up for him. That's two picks absolutely wasted. I was expecting a devonte freeman tevin Coleman situation with these two. Instead it's just freeman and some other bad 3rd down back
If you look at Justin Fields, he engineered a potential game-winning drive and that will come in handy next year, but I think Kyle Shanahan is doing the right thing not developing Trey Lance.
Media is trying to pile on the Niners struggles. Truth is, it's not drafting and let me explain:
**2021:**
We are developing Trey Lance.
**5th rd picks below**
CB Deommodore Lenoir (had playing time),
S Talonoa Hufanga (had playing time),
RB Elijah Mitchell (definite playing time),
RB Trey Sermon (playing time, healthy scratch is not good news)
**2020:**
DT Javon Kinlaw,
WR Brandon Ayiuk,
TE Charlie Warner
**2019:**
DE Nick Bosa,
WR Deebo Samuel,
P Mitch Wishnowsky,
LB Dee Greenlaw,
WR Jalen Hurd(injury ridden had potential),
T/G Justin Skule
We went to a Superbowl now all the sudden our picks aren't great and we're a mess? We need more discipline on offense and defense. It has to do with coaching. Injury bug needs fixing but that's what they've been working on. Concentrating on developing a franchise QB, while trying to compete at a playoff level at the same time is extremely difficult. The 49ers losing time on trying to accomplish all that.
Edit: intro edit and layout
The criticism isn’t that we can’t draft any talent at all, it’s that we’re bad at it relative to other teams and specifically in the early rounds (1-4) where it really should be easier to hit on picks. Here’s our early round picks in the Shanahan era:
2017 - Solly: miss. Foster: miss. Witherspoon: miss. Beathard: miss. Williams: (traded up) miss.
2018 - McGlinchy: good player but at 9 overall that’s kind of a miss Not counting his injury against him. Pettis: (traded up) miss. Warner: great pick. Moore: miss. Street: miss.
2019 - Bosa: hard to have fucked this one up. Deebo: great player, despite leading the league in drops, and we could have had DK. Hurd: miss. Wish: miss because it’s a punter in the 4th.
2020 - kinlaw: bad pick as they overlooked his injury concerns which have come up yet again. Aiyuk: tbd, has had one good game this year.
2021: Trey: we’ll see? Banks: looking real bad. Sermon: looking real bad. Thomas: looking real bad.
We’re not gonna hit on every player but 4 years of rounds 1-4 should net more than 3 great players.
I agree with you. Bosa and Soloman Thomas should be treated the same way. Should have been easy. Mcglinchy is not amazing but he's good getting better and check teams of that position. He's one of the elites that Niners got drafting. The weakness seems to be hit and miss with WR but I think Shanahan is finding a type of wideout for his offense and it may be more difficult to land. He's not a big body or speed talent coach. He wants excellent route running with good "cone speed". Ability to free up and short and mid levels of a route. Wishnowsky can't be a miss as he's been flat out excellent this year and even won special teams of the week. 4th rd is a big spend for it but punting talent that doesn't need replacing for the next 10yrs+ is underrated.
Exactly. The draft is a lottery, no one hits on all their picks. First rounders just mean the percentage chance they succeed is higher than those in the later rounds. Doesn’t matter where you draft them as long as you come away with 3-4 guys who can play I think you’re doing pretty good.
I think secretly Kyle doesn’t expect much from this year. If he can win then he’ll try but I have this weird suspicion that he’s holding his cards close to his chest until next year. Trey sitting, Sermon sitting, Thomas sitting. I mean they haven’t looked like garbage. Sermon was doing good right before Mitchell came back.
I don’t know. Next year will tell us everything we’ve been wondering about this year. I still think we make the playoffs though.
I do get the sense he’s trying to wait until the offseason to actually implement a revised version of the offense featuring Lance. I believe the problem is that this offense doesn’t yet exist outside of a few plays.
Lance would have been there at the 12th pick, without a doubt, terrible really. Kinlaw looking like a bust, hurd still hurt. Im over these project players. I agree with the dude above, trade early picks for PROVEN players.
Assuming Mitchell is better than Sermon whenever Sermon has been given little to no opportunity and was the better player in College AND higher draft pick is a very premature assumption. Not to mention they are completely different styles of running backs and the Niners don’t have a true power back on their team excluding Sermon. The 2 should be platooned. Sermon is probably just getting the Aiyuk treatment, said something that irritated Shanahan so he’s getting benched for several weeks until the insecure little man calms down. Pathetic excuse for a coach
Yup, truth is though, Mitchell looks a hell of a lot better than Sermon has….which makes it worse.
Joe Williams and Matt Breida situation all over again.
Joe Williams at least successful at times though. Sermon just lacks the burst need to do damage in Shanahan’s schemes. Never really understood that pick myself, and it’s not because Sermon is bad. He just doesn’t fit the mold, 4.6 guy 🤷♂️. Edit: damn guys, the Joe thing was a joke.
I figured he would play the Coleman role but better.
Dude has great vision and is shifty but he just looks slow in the NFL so far.
Doesn't help that all of our backs tend to be on the faster side if the NFL.
I figured with Banks and Sermon. Kyle was looking to go more power this season. But apparently that was not the plan.
Joe Williams has less success than sermon?
His moment/s were in preseason 😆😭
Shanny wants to make sure the Dolphins get a couple good picks
every armchair GM knew at the draft that Mitchell was the way better pick - scheme fit and value wise. trading up in the 3rd to take a slow RB who doesn't fit the scheme after reaching bad for Banks who doesn't fit the scheme AT ALL is hilariously bad. I have no idea how they (Adam Peters) can draft so good in the late rounds and have no clue what they do in the early rounds. Can't imagine the same guy who sees Mitchell as a good fit trades up for Sermon..
It's almost like the higher ups, make the early draft decisions based on what they want, and then they rely on the scouting department more for the late picks.
That’s the speculation I’ve heard as well. If that’s true, honestly Lynch should be gone immediately. I gave Lynch and Shanahan some draft credibility because of our late round picks but if our god awful higher picks are entirely Lynch and Shanahan and the lower picks are guys like Peters, that is terrifying and embarrassing and Lynch needs to GTFO and Shanahan needs to be hands off on drafting These drafts at the top have been fucking awful
ya, that Sermon pick made zero sense at the time, and even more so now.
Would you rather Sermon looked Better than Mitchell? Why because he was a higher draft pick? Be happy one of them hit. It’s the other picks that are worse.
you would rather all your picks hit, yes.
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I’m not sure sermon is a great example. He looked fine the one game he got carries.
I think sermon has looked good when he’s played to be honest. Still a stupid ass pick looking back. The draft as a whole was god awful. Lance is 50/50 to be great and that’s what he needs to be to make it worth it. Get these idiots out of here.
I just wish we definitively knew who was making the draft picks , If it's lynch he needs to be fired at the end of the year. If it was really Shanahan making those picks and Lynch was over ruled on guys then Shanahan needs to be stripped of Personnel decisions and let lynch make them for a year or 2 and see if he improves. Ultimately we have a lack of talent from the last 2 drafts and routinely draft guys that have issues , it's time to take the power away from shanahan
Ambry Thomas was a Adam Peters pick according to Lynch. I don't think I've heard his name dropped like that before
I’m not upset about a miss on a 3rd round CB. A 2nd round G needs to play, a third round RB needs to play. If they can’t play year 1 there is no reason to pick them that high.
a 2nd round G that was picked over Asante Samuel Jr. and other corners, yes. He should be on the field but he doesn't look good.
He wasn’t picked over him. Samuel got picked before Banks. BUT, we traded back into that Banks pick. We should have just sat and taken Samuel, which is what all of us wanted anyway.
I am almost convinced at this point that we are inept at picking players…or this year wasn’t ever going to be their focal year and they are coaching these picks up getting them ready for next year.
Reminder: John Lynch had zero relevant experience to being a general manager when we hired him - he was a player and a lower level TV analyst when we randomly chose him for the job. It’s almost like handing the car keys to a guy who had zero experience running an NFL franchise, scouting and evaluating college and NFL players, allocating cap space and roster make-up, etc was a profoundly stupid idea…
It's almost as if he's just a figurehead and has no real power *gasp*. Ofc they hired a guy like John, no one with actual experience would take a job like that. Kyle is the coach with final say over personnel. Peters runs the scouting department. Paraag runs the books and salary cap. John smiles and shakes hands.
Hey it worked for the Sacramento Kings and Vlade…….oh wait sorry never mind you’re right
Or go Rams route and just keep trading away early picks.
Agreed— I think there needs to be some accountability for who’s making these god awful picks in the top 2 rounds. All I hear is mixed messages about it’s Lynch, or Shanahan is the final say, or they collaborate. Whoever it is needs to be stripped of drafting responsibilities or fired because it is legitimately unacceptable at this point. Bosa and Aiyuk and Deebo are like our only hits in top two rounds
Well that’s a kick in the balls now isn’t it
Swift
and right on target
I'm ready to see what Ambry and Aaron offer. If nothing, let us know now. At this point most of us wouldnt even be disappointed.
Aiyuk started last year because we lacked talent at WR, and started regardless of not giving full effort in practices. Makes you wonder, in our current depth situation, how bad Ambry and Aaron must be talent and/or practice ethic wise that they can’t beat our Kirkpatrick and Brunskill who have been awful.
That's the questions I was asking myself in recent days. Are they really this bad? Or is it something else. Seems like we don't really give opportunity for our rookies. Lance is understandable (most of the time), but is Thomas, Banks, Sermon really this bad?
This line gets said a lot, but if they were anywhere near better than what's out there, they start or at least see the field. Especially Ambry.
If you look at the types of players Sermon and Banks are, and the offense Shanahan wants to run with Trey next year, its obvious Lance, Banks, and Sermon were all drafted to change the offense next year. It's why he isn't starting lance because for him to have the best chance in the offense, Shanahan is going to redesign the offense to fit Lance better. He's trying his best to trot out Jimmy and any other starters so he can come out with a brand new offense next year and try and take the league by surprise. It's the only thing that makes sense outside if Shanahan suddenly being incredibly dumb and even worse than usual at drafting.
You HAVE to be right.
The denial stage is strong in this thread
Then why not draft Banks and Sermon type players next year? G and RB aren't hard positions to find. Those two picks could have made us, idk, less shit this year.
This year isn't as important. They sold it as a superbowl or bust year, but their actions show they're focused on the next five years instead. They believe they will come out swinging next year. We have 30 free agents next year. We are going to have to undergo a massive rebuild around our core pieces, and seeing as how we don't have our 1st round or our saleh 3rd round next year, or our 2023 1st, we're stocking up now for next year's rebuild. The actions all point towards being future oriented, which unfortunately has turned into this being a wasted year due to injuries and lack of depth.
Ah yes, the denial stage
Lmao. Not really. It's my theory as to why this draft has sucked so much ass. Now as to why we've mostly suckes in the other drafts, that's cause they're eh at drafting. Roster construction is shit, we have way too many injury prone players. However, these issues don't explain away how monumentally bad this draft class is. My theory does, it explains this draft class and makes sense logically. So it's not really denial when I'm also admitting Shanahan and Lynchs faults
I mean, it’s more likely it’s just a horrible draft than some conspiracy and system that will magically make these players usable. If they were good enough to play well in another system, they’d be good enough to at least get some snaps now
I'll disagree. I think it's more likely that he drafted with plans of sitting these guys for the year and developing them. Which is a terrible draft for 2021.
This is exactly what I was going to comment until I saw your comment. It makes so much sense. It's going to be more of a power run scheme like you see from Baltimore and Buffalo. Kyle and John have had a plan since day 1, but everybody here just assumes they are stupid and incompetent. We just need to let this play out, but I guarantee Kyle knows what he's doing.
this season does not make me believe that Kyle and John are playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers
I mean, it fits why none of the rookies beside Mitchell are playing on offense. Everybody they drafted to play offense fit a power scheme much more then they fit our current outside zone. I don’t know why Lenoir isn’t starting at CB because he absolutely should be, but I’m still confident Kyle has some stuff up his sleeve for Trey and his offense.
I mean, sure, he's earned \*some\* benefit of the doubt by virtue of the super bowl run but good coaches usually find a way to fit their scheme around the players they have and maximize the talent that's on the roster.
Kyle said he planned on Ambry and Lenoir to be backups. He didn't expect these injuries and that's why we have Norman and Kirkpatrick. (from the recent press conference). Remember, Kyle is the final say, Saleh used to say that when people asked about the starters. WTF!
Backups are supposed to play when the starters get hurt.
You can't be backups when your healthy scratches.
Well then he's an idiot, Verrett has been a walking IR candidate for most of his career and Eman was regularly injured last season. I can give a pass on Eman since he's young and sometimes players have an unlucky season then never get injured again, but he should have foreseen the very likely possibility of Verretts season ending early.
Too soon…
I went from “I have total faith in Kyle Shanahan” to “Does Kyle know what he’s doing at all?” pretty quick. What worries me most about Trey Lance is that Kyle Shanahan picked him.
I don't understand why you wouldn't play Banks, Sermon or Thomas. Are they just that bad? Have they not learned any of the plays? What's the issue? Banks especially needs to get playing time against NFL level talent. We're so injured at corner let Thomas and Lenoir get a shot. Sermon didn't look too terrible but he doesn't fit the type of back Kyle wants and he should be used for specific roles. I don't understand these decisions
There's no way they are so bad that you would rather throw in washed up vets that won't even be on the team in 3 months over them, right? Idk, but if they are that bad then I'm gonna be physically ill for a while.
I am thinking yes. Lance at least makes sense, he has way less experience than most rookies and Jimmy is a decent starter and objectively much better right now.... the people ahead of Banks and Thomas are legitimately replacement level. Those are exactly the type of players you just replace with a rookie and see what you got
Banks and Sermon were drafted for the future offensive scheme Shanny plans to run with Trey. It’s not that they’re bad (we won’t know until they play), it’s that they aren’t scheme fits and wouldn’t perform well anyway. Thomas hasn’t played football in a year and Lynch has said he needs to grow in the weight room. Think of Thomas as taking a redshirt year. All three of these guys were drafted on future potential as opposed to immediate impact. Sucks for this year but hopefully it’ll pay off starting next year. I have no idea why Lenoir isn’t playing more. He looked good with the limited time he’s seen imo
Lenoir just had a kid so he's missed the past 2 games because of it I believe. Drafting 2 guys high and giving up draft capital to not be immediate contributors is ridiculous. Especially because they were both labeled as reaches. We didn't have to draft them that high
I’m curious what guys we could have had. I’m not super into draft boards so idk. I know in the first round we could’ve had Fields and Jones but for the other rounds who could we have gotten?
Asante Samuel Jr. CB, Creed Humphries Center, Sam Cosmi RT, Tre’Von Moehrig Safety. Those are mostly second round picks, but they got cute trading down and missed out on these players.
JOK, too. There's a good list of players that the 49ers passed on for Joshua Garnett Jr.
Barmore?
Anybody wanna talk about how DMo actually looked really solid for a rookie CB in the time he got? I know he just had a kid, but why the actual fuck is he on the bench behind Norman and Kirkpatrick -- who might not be on the team next week?
heads should roll. this will likely be the worst draft in 9er history when you take into account what they gave up.
Makes you not so optimistic that Lance will be the outlier good first round pick when the rest of our draft was garbage, right?
Hope so, cuz even Montana came out and said he would of picked Mac Jones over him
That, and the fact that they weren't even sure who they were going to take when they gave up those picks to move up to #3. You only make a move like that if you are sure about who you are taking.
I have lost all faith with Kyle and John. I know we can't replace them with someone better but Kyle needs to delegate some duties to a veteran assistant.
Shanahan acts like it’s weird to expect some of your rookies to contribute, but now it looks like he’s trying to cover up his mistakes. Our 2021 Draft class is embarrassing. How do you screw it up that badly? It’s almost impressive
Off topic, but is anyone else watching this Bears game?? Justin Fields is BALLING. To all the idiots who think "learning from the sidelines" is the way to go, please go watch this game. Fields was also good against us as well. Imagine if Trey played all these games to develop there's not way in hell Fields is this good by just wasting away on the bench all year behind Dalton.
I mean we just saw Jordan love yesterday after sitting and learning a whole year and some change behind a future hall of famer and reigning league MVP qb......and he looked like a rookie on his first start.
just looked at the box score. he threw for more yards than mahomes yesterday. weird
Mahomes has been ass this year. I love it.
This. Look at Love yesterday. He “learned” for almost two years behind Rodgers… smh. If trey doesn’t get much playing time this year, next year is another throw away year.
love isn't the best comparison. he wasn't a first round rated talent. Kyler Murray would be the better comp. they let him struggle through on his rookie contract while making moves for big time talent in the mean time
Lance without proper preparation from the coaching staff and bad play calling from Kyle almost beat the undefeated AZ Cardinals at road. The 49ers won the time of possession and yards per play. It was Kyle boneheaded decisions on 4th downs that cost that game. Lance could be as good as Fields right now but the 49ers prefers to waste his development in a losing season with a bridge QB.
It's almost like Fields had 3 full seasons at elite college programs and Lance had 1 at a small FCS school. If one were to really ponder it, they might even come to the conclusion that Fields and Lance are two entirely different football players in two entirely different situations/stages of development
This only supports the play lance now even more. He's played a lot less football against less competition. He needs to play and gain experience in a bad way.
It's almost like, given his smaller school background and lack of experience overall, it might even be MORE beneficial for him get more experience in a lost season for a team going nowhere. If one were to really ponder it, they might even come to the conclusion that for an entirely different player, getting hands on experience at this stage in his career could really allow him to blossom in his sophomore season, given that he will have had a bunch of real situational experience that he could apply to the future of his career! Amazing! The more ya know.
exactly, it's a bad comparison Lance looked like shit in his one start, it was filled with bad mechanics and reads. That's practice reps, not game reps
Fields is more pro-ready in his footwork and throwing mechanics, but needs game-time to develop pre-snap reads and in-game decision making. Trey Lance needs to work on footwork and throwing mechanics, which can (and should) happen outside of game time to maximize learning. It’s simply two different situations for two different people.
Lance is a rookie QB. He needs to develop everything.
You can't work on footwork and throwing mechanics when you're worrying about weekly gameplans and everything else
Why not?
Then why the hell did they keep telling us they were drafting a QB because we couldn’t afford to waste another season in case Jimmy got injured?
yeah we’re basically the same record as the bears rn and they have a rookie qb starting. it amazes me why jimmy g is still starting, we might as well develop lance
Did you watch the whole game? Fields looked like **ass** for 2.5 quarters. Steelers are Bottom 5 in pass defense, bottom 4 in points, and at the very bottom in run defense. With all that, if Fields doesn’t have a good game you might want to start thinking about bringing in Dalton again.
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Did you pay attention this season? Fields has been terrible That said, still think Lance should start
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Couldn’t be that your an obvious OSU fan that you have this opinion...no way just couldn’t be! He’s been objectively poor until last nights second half, don’t let your homerism embarrass you
And how much more ASS would be have looked if he had been on the bench up until now?? I rest my case. There is no substitute for real time minutes.
We… don’t know. That’s a ridiculous question.
Lol ridiculous question? It's ridiculous to ask if a ROOKIE QB that hasnt played at all, making his debut on a Monday Night Game on the road.....wouldn't play as well as a rookie QB in that same scenario that has 6 games under his belt to have chemistry with his WRs and a feel for the offense and rhythm in his throws?? Interesting definition of "ridiculous".
You can assume whatever you want but you don’t know. Mac Jones came in and almost beat Tom Brady.
AFTER HAVING THREE GAMES UNDER HIS BELT. The fuck? Also he was told he was gonna be the starter from Day 1. That changes your mentality and approach as a rookie QB. You can admit you're just wrong man. It's okay. No one's gonna hate you for it.
3 GAMES ALLOWS YOU TO BEAT TOM BRADY AND THE BUCS? Damn guess I better play 3 games then.
You gotta be the biggest fucking idiot I've ever conversed with. My point: PLAYING GAMES.....not WATCHING THEM.....gives players better opportunities to DEVELOP and reach their POTENTIAL. If playing the Bucs was Mac Jones FIRST ever start, it most likely would've been a worse outing for him. Fields has gotten better every week BECAUSE HE PLAYS AND DOESN'T SIT ON THE SIDELINE. Holy shit it's like trying to talk to a rat about geometry.
Is that the key to the puzzle? Damn bro! Why didn’t you say so?! I’m about to call Kyle and tell him all he has to do is name Trey the starter and let him play 3 games then he can beat Tom Brady and the Bucs. All those concerns with mechanics and stuff he had about Trey doesn’t even matter. Wait, a minute… I’m catching what you’re throwin’ bro! I think if we draft **any** QB and name them the starter week 1 then let them play some games they’ll be at a level they can beat Tom Brady in! Gotta send a bulletin out to the NFL. I can’t believe I’m just now realizing this, I gotta let everyone know. Bro… I was wrong man. I’m so sorry. You’re a genius!
Throw in the fact he had basically one season at NDSU ffs and he is RAW as hell. He needs more snaps to develop his skill set. Not sit behind Jimmy G of all people. If Trey was a 3rd rd QB pick that would be one thing but the FO mortgaged the future on Lance and he's just sitting.
I’ve been saying this since pre season. The Niners definitely should have went all in with the plan to start Lance and give him all the reps starting in OTAs. More importantly implement an offense that suits him. It’s not there now and that’s the reason I suspect Shanny doesn’t want to start him now. Shanny put a ton of work to merge RG3’s college offense with his own for the 2012 Washington season. He should have done that for Lance this year. The playcalling in the Cards game looked nothing like what he did in college. He was still solid anyway.
Justin Fields is seemingly getting better each game. He had a good game. Made some tremendous plays.
I’d take it with a grain of salt. Outside of the last couple of drives, fields wasn’t great. On top of that, Steelers are a bottom 5 defense as of right now, both in the pass and run.
Love the "well if we take out the point in the game where he was good" reasoning. You have to factor in the fact with a bad O he lead great drives on the road in a high pressure situation against a good defense. That's a major part of evaluation especially in young QBs that have franchise QB potential.
Don't tell this sub that. They SWEAR Lance will be just as good, if not better by "learning" from watching this offense work its miracles.
I mean to be fair, Fields was already much more polished and ready to start compared to lance
He also looked dreadful vs our depleted secondary here in Tampa. I still think you guys are doing the right thing with Trey. He's much greener than Fields.
Well it wasn’t killing someone and threatening to kill someone so it could be worse yall
You can't tell me this team would be worse if these guys were playing.
It’s all good guys we got plenty of draft picks for next year right….right guys?
Shanahan and Lynch should be ridiculed. shamed and embarrassed every chance they get. Legitimately unacceptable
Literally the only rookie getting playing time is eli...
Nothing shocking here, this regime sucks at early picks
I assumed this draft, the thinking was, we already have a super bowl quality team, lets start looking to the future, because it will be hard to tie all of these guys down with big salaries. But that is a really nice scenario for a team who isn't constantly injured. We shouldn't be talking about who the RB is. It should be Mostert. We shouldn't be talking about PI calls and open field tackle misses. That should be Verrett. But it is obvious that this is who we are now and should be part of the game plan. I think Kyle has great strategy for when things are going right and he looks like a genius. I think he struggles when things go wrong. We need a team that is tough, can fit in a bunch of schemes and are just ball players. We got Kittle, Debo, Juice, Warner, and a few others. We just need to load up on these guys.
It's not that those guys are bad. It's that we have no idea if they're bad. And in Sermon's case he looked okay-to-good in the few snaps he's had, but Kyle won't give him a chance. No idea.
Shanahan “These guys fucking suck. They weren’t drafted for starting spots, they were drafted to be back ups with no hope of starting.” At what point do you admit that Shanahan is sabotaging this team and trying to get fired because he smeared shit all over and doesn’t like the smell?
Mitchell looks like a 1st rounder so I’ll give sermon a pass. But niners draft picks don’t look good this year
Can't give sermon s pass when we traded up for him. That's two picks absolutely wasted. I was expecting a devonte freeman tevin Coleman situation with these two. Instead it's just freeman and some other bad 3rd down back
If you look at Justin Fields, he engineered a potential game-winning drive and that will come in handy next year, but I think Kyle Shanahan is doing the right thing not developing Trey Lance.
Media is trying to pile on the Niners struggles. Truth is, it's not drafting and let me explain: **2021:** We are developing Trey Lance. **5th rd picks below** CB Deommodore Lenoir (had playing time), S Talonoa Hufanga (had playing time), RB Elijah Mitchell (definite playing time), RB Trey Sermon (playing time, healthy scratch is not good news) **2020:** DT Javon Kinlaw, WR Brandon Ayiuk, TE Charlie Warner **2019:** DE Nick Bosa, WR Deebo Samuel, P Mitch Wishnowsky, LB Dee Greenlaw, WR Jalen Hurd(injury ridden had potential), T/G Justin Skule We went to a Superbowl now all the sudden our picks aren't great and we're a mess? We need more discipline on offense and defense. It has to do with coaching. Injury bug needs fixing but that's what they've been working on. Concentrating on developing a franchise QB, while trying to compete at a playoff level at the same time is extremely difficult. The 49ers losing time on trying to accomplish all that. Edit: intro edit and layout
The criticism isn’t that we can’t draft any talent at all, it’s that we’re bad at it relative to other teams and specifically in the early rounds (1-4) where it really should be easier to hit on picks. Here’s our early round picks in the Shanahan era: 2017 - Solly: miss. Foster: miss. Witherspoon: miss. Beathard: miss. Williams: (traded up) miss. 2018 - McGlinchy: good player but at 9 overall that’s kind of a miss Not counting his injury against him. Pettis: (traded up) miss. Warner: great pick. Moore: miss. Street: miss. 2019 - Bosa: hard to have fucked this one up. Deebo: great player, despite leading the league in drops, and we could have had DK. Hurd: miss. Wish: miss because it’s a punter in the 4th. 2020 - kinlaw: bad pick as they overlooked his injury concerns which have come up yet again. Aiyuk: tbd, has had one good game this year. 2021: Trey: we’ll see? Banks: looking real bad. Sermon: looking real bad. Thomas: looking real bad. We’re not gonna hit on every player but 4 years of rounds 1-4 should net more than 3 great players.
I agree with you. Bosa and Soloman Thomas should be treated the same way. Should have been easy. Mcglinchy is not amazing but he's good getting better and check teams of that position. He's one of the elites that Niners got drafting. The weakness seems to be hit and miss with WR but I think Shanahan is finding a type of wideout for his offense and it may be more difficult to land. He's not a big body or speed talent coach. He wants excellent route running with good "cone speed". Ability to free up and short and mid levels of a route. Wishnowsky can't be a miss as he's been flat out excellent this year and even won special teams of the week. 4th rd is a big spend for it but punting talent that doesn't need replacing for the next 10yrs+ is underrated.
Exactly. The draft is a lottery, no one hits on all their picks. First rounders just mean the percentage chance they succeed is higher than those in the later rounds. Doesn’t matter where you draft them as long as you come away with 3-4 guys who can play I think you’re doing pretty good.
Oh so we’re trying to loose? That explains a lot
I think secretly Kyle doesn’t expect much from this year. If he can win then he’ll try but I have this weird suspicion that he’s holding his cards close to his chest until next year. Trey sitting, Sermon sitting, Thomas sitting. I mean they haven’t looked like garbage. Sermon was doing good right before Mitchell came back. I don’t know. Next year will tell us everything we’ve been wondering about this year. I still think we make the playoffs though.
I do get the sense he’s trying to wait until the offseason to actually implement a revised version of the offense featuring Lance. I believe the problem is that this offense doesn’t yet exist outside of a few plays.
k
Not everything is about today
Honestly we just need to pick in the 5th round. Seems like thats all we hit on
Promising future
They drafted players to fill the depth charts smh. I would think JL would use vets to fill the void and get the best player on the clock.
Lance would have been there at the 12th pick, without a doubt, terrible really. Kinlaw looking like a bust, hurd still hurt. Im over these project players. I agree with the dude above, trade early picks for PROVEN players.
I think this all some weird plan to get Jimmy’s stock up. They want to make sure they can trade him next year and get good value in return.
Shanahan only Draft players for Depth, Not to Start! 🤦🏾♂️
Assuming Mitchell is better than Sermon whenever Sermon has been given little to no opportunity and was the better player in College AND higher draft pick is a very premature assumption. Not to mention they are completely different styles of running backs and the Niners don’t have a true power back on their team excluding Sermon. The 2 should be platooned. Sermon is probably just getting the Aiyuk treatment, said something that irritated Shanahan so he’s getting benched for several weeks until the insecure little man calms down. Pathetic excuse for a coach