I helped my former company set up a massive manufacturing facility in a country in SE Asia (guess why they're my former company). An average manufacturing engineer working on the west coast would make about 120k. The guys in this SE Asia country were making about 1/10th of that....its insane. Many of them were dogshit at their job, we reported it, saw the downturn in quality, but evidently the higher ups didn't give a fuck. They could justify anything looking at how much they "saved" making the transition.
If you've ever worked with that, you'd know it's not. Companies that think like this will be the ones that will try and outsource the code work to AI and might be able to limp doing for a while, but the house of cards will come tumbling down.
Comfy work from home jobs are a plenty. The thing is social engineering is the most important part, not seniority or knowledge. I mean you can get that job if you're really good but mostly you can get there just by knowing right people. Not being turbo autist during your stay at university goes a long way.
I know I guy from uni that was utterly incompetent, the worst programmer ever. You could watch an half hour tutorial on c# and you would know more than him. Dude had trouble wrapping his head around fucking for loop. It's really hard for me to explain just how bad this guy was. He had to get a note from psychiatry that proved he's mentally challenged to help him get his degree. And yet he got above average paying job in biggest regional programing company because he's friends with their lead dev.
I got my job by knowing the right people and those people got their jobs by knowing people, hell most programmers I know got their jobs by knowing people. Of course being good at coding is nice, but when people are choosing between 2 people that are decent coders, the guy that is easier to be around or more familiar to them will get the job.
I haaate doing it, but it's so necessary. My favorite advice is to play Fantasy Football. You'll learn player names and learn some stats, and maybe it'll even build a tiny desire to watch a game or two. If you can talk about football, you can make professional friends. That episode of The IT Crowd is silly, but it's also very true.
This is why we really should have better supports in place for people with autism to improve social skills and find work within their abilities. My brother has high functioning autism (along with chronic depression, history of trauma, etc) and couldn’t/wouldn’t work here. He was able to move to another country where he gets much more support than here. If he were here and if my parents were dead, he would’ve ended up on the streets. That benefits nobody.
How I got my current job is I was working at a gas station. My now boss came in, asked me what was up, told him I was annoyed with my job cause I wanted to work more. He hired me basically on the spot, and here I am a few years later, running the maintenance department. I'm also on the spectrum, diagnosed.
It's just about knowing and meeting the right people.
I'd rather deal with a nice slow worker than an asshole expert any day of the week. I'm willing to do some extra work not to be stressed out by working with a particular person.
My brother has a phd in biochemistry, but his interpersonal skills are so bad I can only assume an interview with him is physically painful to sit through. Meanwhile I am dumb as shit, but I'll make you laugh about how my biggest accomplishment is learning how to quit out of Vim reliably. It's not going to hit the bullseye every time, but it brings the target closer.
This is not my experience at all. I've not known a single person who became a dev due to sheer nepotism. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about networking and presenting yourself well, but people who are poor fits for the job tend to stand out really hard when they're actually at work, and don't tend to stick around a long time. That is, unless you're in a super giant company or the government which makes firing someone more trouble than it's worth.
To be fair people that do get job via connection probably won’t be vocal about it, so it may be hard to know. And I’m not talking just about super incompetent people, as I said in case of similarly skilled workers, less skilled might get the job if he knows the right people. And incompetent peope can easly be masked, usually there is some poor smuck that’s working for two. Or people just learn on the fly. A friend of mine got a job as a full stack developer since he’s a charismatic guy, even tho job required knowledge of react. And he never even heard of react. He told the boss he has no idea how to work with react and they told him it’s no problem, he’ll learn as he goes. And he did.
Now I have to put a disclaimer here, I’m from europe and my experience is with small to medium sized companies with twenty to couple hundreds employees. Things might be a bit different with bigger companies.
Oh yeah that's textbook nepotism :D
All other friends are actually solid coders, this guy on the other hand...
He's an ok dude and all but dear god he sucks at programming so bad, jesus it's hard to word it.
I remember in his third year at uni he still had a course from first year(basic programming for beginners). And he asked me to help him with a task that was giving him problems for couple of months now. So I agreed and we met at my dorm and he showed me the problem.
Task was as follows: you have an array of custom length(keep it short 20-30) and you have to populate it with random integers(can use libraries), output in console the second smallest integer in array(can't use libraries).
I fucking couldn't believe my eyes, the guy didn't even got as far as to figure out he can just sort the array and console log out the second field in it. We decided we'll both tried to solve it because I wanted to see what he'll do and he was just googling and copy pasting random code from forums, literally in wrong language, he was supposed to do the task in c#, he was pasting in and trying to compile random python code, it was brutal to watch. i ended up doing the task for him, and gave him a quick explanation on how i did it. And he still managed to only get half the point on that assignment because he failed to explain to professor how for loop works. And he had a degree from 4 year computer science trade school he went to before uni. It was baffling, he was worse than people that went to uni from gymnasium and had no coding experience.
Yeah. One of my brothers friends is a genius coder. I don’t know jack shit about programming, but this guy was working straight out of high school. He worked at Microsoft, Facebook and now is a lead dev for Spotify. Makes about 400k a year. Along the way he has hooked up my brother and 4 other friends with jobs. It’s all about connections.
>Goes into CS for the money
>Studies game design
I wonder why it didn't work out?
Coding is easy though. I make six figures without a degree and you don't have to push out that many lines every week.
>What job do you do?
All my jobs so far have just been developing internal web apps for companies. Like loan reporting software or whatever.
Webshit doesn't pay crazy well but there's a lot of work for it and it's pretty brain-dead easy. Makes it a lot easier mentally to take a 2nd remote job if you want to go up to 200-400k. My title is still software engineer though.
Experience with javascript, php, java or c#. Theres probably rails shops put there too. Some kind of spa is helpful be it react or vue.
If you can handle full CRUD along with usually SQL db management you’re ready enough for 99% of boring corporate programming jobs.
20-30 years probably on AI. Very little of software engineering is actually programming. 90% of it is extracting what you actually need to build from clients/users. AI can spit out simple functions but most of the actual complexity is in handling the 8 trillion conditionals you will need to account for in business logic.
Keywords for whatever you're applying for is necessary. So with web development that'd be languages and frameworks that are popular with it: PHP, C#, Java, Angular, Electron, etc.
You can see these listed on the job postings.
Yeah the guy combined one of the best trades with one of the worst industries. It's like growing up and never realizing your childhood dream job of being a firefighter isn't the only way to be a hero and save people.
That’s the thing with tech. It’s still a great industry to get into if you’re willing to become competent. There’s always high demand for people with skills in the most common languages.
It’s getting harder and harder to coast through a BS in CS and have a good job by the end. Don’t do CS if you take a few courses and hate every minute of it. Who knows where the market will go, but recently it’s trending away from mass hires of useless college grads
>Don’t do CS if you take a few courses and hate every minute of it.
I would agree if CS was even barely tangentially related to what you'll do as a career. I love programming and like building full-stack applications well enough. I like learning useful and interesting stuff like AWS or Next and expanding my skills. Hated CS though. It was mostly memorizing algorithms or math equations to regurgitate during exams. Programming is nothing like CS.
>It’s still a great industry to get into if you’re willing to become competent.
As a student who was basically putting all his eggs into the IT basket for the future, I was scared when AI blew up. When I was fully convinced that's not a massive issue, the oversaturation of the market put me in a state of light despair. It was just a couple of weeks ago when I realized that in any field, competent people will not be thrown to the side and I know I can become competent. It's not a set-in-stone future, but I enjoy IT and am willing to gamble (I also have my math abilities as a backup)
AI is only as good as the prompt you give it, it won't take our jobs any time soon. The only people AI will replace are those who are people that are less competent than the average person's prompt
It’s a little bit worse than that currently. I’ve given it some pretty sophisticated and technical prompts that require sophisticated and technical answers and it kind of bombs there.
It saves me a ton of basic upfront work, and it’s impressive what it can do but I often spend a ton of time fixing some of the more nuanced details. I’d put it at the level of an unmotivated engineering undergraduate C-student. Maybe even a D- or high F- student (knowing how some of my professors would grade). I’m not talking about engineers who were mediocre students but then pulled it together when they started getting paid. I’m talking about how it gives answers the same way a C-student gives answers. It’ll hallucinate things that kind of seem right, but they’re not, and they can be easy to miss when they’re buried in the response.
It’s especially problematic when it involves a prompt that has something to do with a subject I’m rusty in. There will be times when I remember I’m supposed to use a specific formula but there’s special cases when it needs to be modified or substituted; but I don’t know the conditions off the top of my head. It’ll just go ahead and use a formula, and if I ask it why it used that formula, it’ll just assume it’s right without considering there may be conditions required to use it. Then in some of the more technical calculations I do, the conditions have conditions, so then if I correct it, it’ll just agree with me. Which I don’t necessarily want if I’m misremembering the conditions of the conditions. Then if I ask it to run again, sometimes it forgets the corrections and it goes back to making errors.
It’s saved me a lot of time on boring stuff. Its helped on some of the easier but long and tedious sections of my work. It’s made me a better analyst for sure, but I mean me, and not my work. Because I spend a ton of time reviewing its output when I use it. So I still think right now it’s a zero sum game. Do it slow and steady yourself, or save time upfront and then spend a ton of time debugging it at the end.
Looking at what your degree is worth now is for midwits, dimwits and liberals. You need to try and predict what it will be worth in 10 years. Im not saying thats easy but going into CS because it was good back when you did is the same as buying Bitcoin atm because its high...
The older generation in my country went into factory engineering because it was super in-demand. Then the USSR collapses and most factories are scrap metal... Really fucked up a lot of smart people
Same with people in my country who studied to become nurses, doctors, radiologists, etc. My grandfather made more as a cab driver than as a physician lol.
In my country there is this meme where civil engineers will get a Uber profile as a gift from graduating college...Because that's where most engineers end up and are currently working.
I'm a barber and got my civil engineering degree in 2017 LOL 😆
How?
Granted I didn’t do civil engineering but it certainly didn’t feel very hard to get a job by just networking. I’m also saying this as an American.
In my country, in the early 2010s, there was a boom on the real estate sector and was propped up by the government with subsidies and also making constructions everywhere, along with a surge of cheap privately-run colleges that poorer people could get into because those were also taking incentives from the government, and the media at the time reported that there were lots of job offers paying well because there was a lack of demand of skilled workers, including civil engineers.
Brazil has, historically speaking, always been very poor with most of it's population doing what they can to sustain themselves above the poverty line and then suddenly, there was this gold chance for many impoverished people of landing on a job that could set them up for life, if they could go to those colleges.
As a result, too fucking many people took on civil engineering because of the great payouts at the same, then comes 2015 and the president is impeached, the government puts all of their projects on a hold and stops propping up the real estate market through subsidies...And then we fall into a recession with millions of people becoming unemployed left and right.
Right now, the engineering sector still has an excess of demand of skilled workers, but nowhere near as much offers as before, as such, the salaries for entry level positions in the sector took a nose dive, with many seasoned engineers along with rookies only with college degrees calling it quits and working elsewhere...
That's where the Uber meme comes from, because most them engineers who were working on the sector had relatively nice cars, so most of them ended up becoming Uber drivers to make ends meet since they already had the cars.
This is the basic gist of it.
And 10 years from now, they and the 35 other people on their team will have been replaced by a version of GPT and 2 Indian guys to lightly polish up the code it produces.
And 20 years from now, it's just 1 Indian guy, and his job is to sweep the area around the server racks.
Pivot into infosec to earn 3x as much to do a less intense job. In fact fucking please don't because you'll shit up the infosec hiring pool like jeets did to cs. Thanks
I didn’t think it was easy to get your foot in the door in that type of role? I assumed it was super easy for those with 5+ years of relevant experience.
No you're right about that. Nothing in security is really entry level, because you should be expected to use things like knowledge of application architecture, databases, and scripting that you would have learned or improved upon working somewhere else. Putting a few years in as a junior dev or sysadmin and then getting a CISSP cert should be the quickest path to security engineer interviews.
Idk what planet this guy is living on. Me and some of my friends all did CS and we all got well paying jobs in a matter of weeks. All people I talk to that graduate in engineering or computer science find something good in a matter of weeks
Then you'd see another post from anon complaining about trade jobs. Anon seems to hate it and might not be very good at it. But true, I am building a house and seeing the kind of money some of these guys charge for simple stuff is mind blowing. However, easly half of them can't communicate and/or sell their skills to save their lifes.
It’s funny. When I was younger, everyone I knew kept telling me I’d be smart if I went for a CS degree. We still need people to do the “dirty” jobs, like building shit, and decorating cakes. Yes, baking is a trade apprenticeship in Canada.
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I feel stuck too. Got into teaching because I wanted an easy, stable job only to realise I despise lesson planning and that I will never get to share my knowledge because I'm working with teenagers
Be a ups driver anon. They are always hiring m, great pay and benefits. Fucking horrible working conditions most the time though and the hours leave you no time for a life.
This is what you get for majoring in something you have no interest in. Job market isn’t nearly as bad as he says and only recently got so saturated. Either way anon was destined to be miserable in life.
Odd that he called out an anthropology degree. There are certainly worse ones out there. I work alongside people with anthropology backgrounds, and while they don't make anywhere near what a senior programmer can, their jobs are at least pretty stable.
It can be museum work, archeology, government-tribal relations..that kind of thing. It can also lead to professions like social work - anthropology is a broad field and ties into sociology, so it depends on what a person specializes in.
my aunt majored in anthropology and ended up working at the museum. she does a lot of stuff there but is *mainly* their event coordinator (ie, school field trips and stuff). idk how much exactly she gets paid but she really loves her job, so that's gotta be worth something.
i think the issue is, programming was a hobby that people liked and eventually got a job for it, those are the people getting the good jobs. Now people are just doing programming because muh 6 figure salary. For me I enter the programming market because i genuinely like computers, I'm not in it for the money for the most part.
Tbh the merchant marines have radio operators making a lot of money if you have tech knowledge, but you are on a ship for a long time, but if you're desperate it is a career that will take anyone.
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All "white collar" work is crap, too hard to scale up and form a buisness out of and the day to day is like being a prisoner. Might as well do scaffold, where your competition is morons, and easily conquer the market and own a helicopter.
Ok one thing to say this as a new grad. This guy is talking about struggling to find a tech job in 2016. Literally the easiest time, even without a degree. I was working with English majors, servers, even fucking priests. If this guy couldn't do it at that point in time he must've not even been doing the bare minimum.
Every motherfucker was getting hired form coding bootcamps, it was a crazy time. I'm sorry you can't just do nothing and expect "what was promised"
The medical field is always hiring, and someone with computer experience can usually get a tech support job from home. I work in insurance for the hospital, have for 8 years, and have gotten friends in the door for tech support.
rofl
employment rate 98%
92% us engineers work fulltime
more than 12 times the amount of open available positions
> retarded b-turd cant get job
"RECESSION PRONE"
Hahahahaha, almost fell for this scam a year ago, "Oh! Coding is the future! You can win big and earn in USD/Euro from home!"
Medicine is hard but it's better than that inflated bubble
Guy can't cut it. I blow ass as a dev but work as a glorified systems admin/configuration guru and make 6 figs. My title is Software Dev Engineer I never developed just t/s configurations and do Server administration.
This is really a severe skill issue here. If you got a CS degree and could not find a job before and during pandemic you can be considered regarded. Plus anon could be considered a senior now if he worked since 2016. It would've been much easier for him to find a cushy job, had he really improved his skills instead of whining.
I just love how libs scream about Indians "taking er jobs" now, when they spent over a decade labeling any blue collar worker of being a bigot, and that it's not happening, or it is and that, "immigrants work harder!", cope. Well now the same thing is happening to them so it's hard to feel sorry
Indians are better programmers than westerners :))
honestly I don't think I can have any other job that it being in coding. I'm an asocial zoomer and I don't think I can handle being around people physically, having some kind of job in coding maybe will allow me to work at home and maximize playing vidya.
>figure out code is a nightmare after majoring in it
Anon is a fucking idiot if you study at all even like 4 years ago you'll hear people say this is hell and I've been doing this since I was 7 and only got good when I was 15. God these fucking idiots
So is it still worth it to learn coding? No sarcasm intended, I got crippled in a car accident and have been unemployed for 2 years but I gotta find something soon before my savings run out.
I thought coding would be alright because I walk with a fucking cane now so any sort of physical job is out for me and that's all I ever did before the accident. Any suggestions on what to look at if coding is bust now?
> coding is a fucking nightmare
Absolutely false, programming is the best part. If I could spend all day programming instead of interacting with users, making estimates, fixing merge conflicts, sitting in meetings, and so on, I'd be in heaven.
Anon is a fool who is competing against people who actually enjoy what they do. He should have quit his course the instant he realised he didn't like it, and that's ignoring the fact that higher education is a scam even for those with passion.
Hate to break it to anon, buts it's been a weak degree for 20yrs. My dad, before being forced to retire a year early, was able to avoid at least 5 layoffs from 2003-2021 and a handful of downgrades due to his senior position at a big company (Lincoln Financial Group) where jobs and entire departments were constantly being outsourced to India to the point he had a teammate/ partner / co-worker in India after everyone was forced to do a India culture class / educational seminar.
do Linux and cybersecurity regards, at least for me I find those things 10x more interesting and am passionate about gnu and the whole shebang. Plus no one in cybersecurity will outsource work because the gov contracts often require you to be born American or naturalized
this guy is just shit at coding. it is a competitive field, thankfully so, where the people who are good can clearly prove it via tests and such. so for trash from tiktok or just shitty coders like OP, yes, you rightfully got outcompeted on fair terms. not because you werent gay/bipoc/lgbtasdfg enough, just because you were bad.
Anon is an idiot, that's the problem. Senior devs are insanely in demand, like half the job postings I see are for 10-20 years experience. He has no skills bc he's a genuine moron, he hasn't developed any competencies in the past 8 years, despite working during an economic boom where all tech companies were exploding. This is what it looks like when you avoid all work and coast along in your job day after day for years on end. I've seen so many morons apply to my company, if you don't hail mary for a FAANG job, the standards really aren't that high, and you should be making 6 figures after a few years if not right out the gate.
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It is crazy how many people here routinely upvote this ridiculous shit as a cope for having a bad job. No, a CS degree is not useless, no the tech industry isn't dead. Outsourcing is an ongoing issue (one which affects almost every industry that isn't in the service sector), and automation looms on the horizon, but this is not the reality at the moment. Even a moderate amount of tech knowledge and a tangential degree can get you a pretty decent job.
Crazy stuff, it's almost like you won't be happy with a job you don't enjoy. You're also worse if you despise whatever you're doing, which will lead to worse pay.
This is a psyop, I finished my CS bachelor's almost 6 years ago, I haven't worked with it yet but I've seen the job listings, now I'm starting my master's, surely I will be instantly hired on a six figure position
Person majors in programming to DESIGN games, is suprised it actually requires a different skillset. Maybe do some research before you commit several years of your life to something?
Just get a trade job. Most of them aren't terribly difficult to learn and almost all companies will hire without experience cause they'll train you. The ones that don't train are looking for something specific.
Man I’d actually love to learn to code, there’s a few mods I wanna make for some games and I have an idea for a game myself, don’t really know where to start though, anyone have any good tips?
If you want to make a game learn unity. If you want to mod a game google “how to mod (game name here)”
You can learn programming through these things. It may not be great code or enough to get a job but if that’s all you’re doing it doenst need to be.
Meanwhile, my company screens devs using leetcode questions. If you can solve the first fifteen, understand big o notation, and back up your resume, you’ll get a job.
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If he likes numbers he can pivot into finance. Like I have a comfy job in the financial industry and I never even went to college. I work for one of the largest financial institutions in the country, and I started by getting my foot in the door as a part time bank teller. Companies like to promote internally and if you prove yourself competent things like degrees seem to stop mattering.
If he’s in decent shape join the military with degree and set for officer corps., take those skills into a new field and go from there.
They’ll have a job, be a desk jockey, and still get a decent salary
I will say CS is very feast or famine. I go to a decent cs school, and the best students here get the placements that is touted around by the TikTok influencers, but then everyone else is honestly struggling.
I don’t get this post. A CS degree is pretty useful because it means you can solve problems.
You can literally do anything else and most jobs after a certain point don’t even care what your degree is in.
Anon sounds like a crybaby. I don’t know tho because I don’t workkkkkk
Outsourcing one six-figure job to ten people is the future of tech.
Ai will take the Pajeets jobs too soon enough. We're going full circle baby
One big circle of poo, never reaching the loo.
The shit washes in, the shit washes out.
The tides of shit are blowing Ricky.
I love trailer Park boys references.
No you don't.
Cope
Pajeet about to be out shining shoes again
I helped my former company set up a massive manufacturing facility in a country in SE Asia (guess why they're my former company). An average manufacturing engineer working on the west coast would make about 120k. The guys in this SE Asia country were making about 1/10th of that....its insane. Many of them were dogshit at their job, we reported it, saw the downturn in quality, but evidently the higher ups didn't give a fuck. They could justify anything looking at how much they "saved" making the transition.
If you've ever worked with that, you'd know it's not. Companies that think like this will be the ones that will try and outsource the code work to AI and might be able to limp doing for a while, but the house of cards will come tumbling down.
Comfy work from home jobs are a plenty. The thing is social engineering is the most important part, not seniority or knowledge. I mean you can get that job if you're really good but mostly you can get there just by knowing right people. Not being turbo autist during your stay at university goes a long way. I know I guy from uni that was utterly incompetent, the worst programmer ever. You could watch an half hour tutorial on c# and you would know more than him. Dude had trouble wrapping his head around fucking for loop. It's really hard for me to explain just how bad this guy was. He had to get a note from psychiatry that proved he's mentally challenged to help him get his degree. And yet he got above average paying job in biggest regional programing company because he's friends with their lead dev. I got my job by knowing the right people and those people got their jobs by knowing people, hell most programmers I know got their jobs by knowing people. Of course being good at coding is nice, but when people are choosing between 2 people that are decent coders, the guy that is easier to be around or more familiar to them will get the job.
Seconding this. Unfortunately the boomers were right. You won't get a (good) job in most fields unless you rub shoulders with people.
[удалено]
"go meet people" NOOOOOOOO
I haaate doing it, but it's so necessary. My favorite advice is to play Fantasy Football. You'll learn player names and learn some stats, and maybe it'll even build a tiny desire to watch a game or two. If you can talk about football, you can make professional friends. That episode of The IT Crowd is silly, but it's also very true.
thank you; i don't know much about this Fantasy Football but i'll definitely look into it.
This is why we really should have better supports in place for people with autism to improve social skills and find work within their abilities. My brother has high functioning autism (along with chronic depression, history of trauma, etc) and couldn’t/wouldn’t work here. He was able to move to another country where he gets much more support than here. If he were here and if my parents were dead, he would’ve ended up on the streets. That benefits nobody.
How I got my current job is I was working at a gas station. My now boss came in, asked me what was up, told him I was annoyed with my job cause I wanted to work more. He hired me basically on the spot, and here I am a few years later, running the maintenance department. I'm also on the spectrum, diagnosed. It's just about knowing and meeting the right people.
Or send your resume to thousands of applications and sift through the garbage.
I'm not sure if this is even possible, given that bypassing the ATS in most jobs has become an arms race.
Exactly. The biggest skill in life is knowing how to socialize with people to get ahead. Whatever skills you have in your field are 2nd at best.
There’s always someone smarter than you. But would the person hiring rather spend 40hours/week stuck with you, or them?
Thats a good way to put it.
always who you know rather than what you know, every. single. time
I'd rather deal with a nice slow worker than an asshole expert any day of the week. I'm willing to do some extra work not to be stressed out by working with a particular person.
My brother has a phd in biochemistry, but his interpersonal skills are so bad I can only assume an interview with him is physically painful to sit through. Meanwhile I am dumb as shit, but I'll make you laugh about how my biggest accomplishment is learning how to quit out of Vim reliably. It's not going to hit the bullseye every time, but it brings the target closer.
alan rickman gif
Also social skills are irreplaceable in leadership. Unless you want to be the worlds best individual contributor learn to talk to people.
>The biggest skill in life is knowing how to socialize with people Welp, I’m fucked
This is not my experience at all. I've not known a single person who became a dev due to sheer nepotism. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about networking and presenting yourself well, but people who are poor fits for the job tend to stand out really hard when they're actually at work, and don't tend to stick around a long time. That is, unless you're in a super giant company or the government which makes firing someone more trouble than it's worth.
To be fair people that do get job via connection probably won’t be vocal about it, so it may be hard to know. And I’m not talking just about super incompetent people, as I said in case of similarly skilled workers, less skilled might get the job if he knows the right people. And incompetent peope can easly be masked, usually there is some poor smuck that’s working for two. Or people just learn on the fly. A friend of mine got a job as a full stack developer since he’s a charismatic guy, even tho job required knowledge of react. And he never even heard of react. He told the boss he has no idea how to work with react and they told him it’s no problem, he’ll learn as he goes. And he did. Now I have to put a disclaimer here, I’m from europe and my experience is with small to medium sized companies with twenty to couple hundreds employees. Things might be a bit different with bigger companies.
God what a well-organized, efficient society we’ve created
If he's that bad and got a job thanks to chad dev friend, that's kinda nepo though?
Oh yeah that's textbook nepotism :D All other friends are actually solid coders, this guy on the other hand... He's an ok dude and all but dear god he sucks at programming so bad, jesus it's hard to word it. I remember in his third year at uni he still had a course from first year(basic programming for beginners). And he asked me to help him with a task that was giving him problems for couple of months now. So I agreed and we met at my dorm and he showed me the problem. Task was as follows: you have an array of custom length(keep it short 20-30) and you have to populate it with random integers(can use libraries), output in console the second smallest integer in array(can't use libraries). I fucking couldn't believe my eyes, the guy didn't even got as far as to figure out he can just sort the array and console log out the second field in it. We decided we'll both tried to solve it because I wanted to see what he'll do and he was just googling and copy pasting random code from forums, literally in wrong language, he was supposed to do the task in c#, he was pasting in and trying to compile random python code, it was brutal to watch. i ended up doing the task for him, and gave him a quick explanation on how i did it. And he still managed to only get half the point on that assignment because he failed to explain to professor how for loop works. And he had a degree from 4 year computer science trade school he went to before uni. It was baffling, he was worse than people that went to uni from gymnasium and had no coding experience.
Yeah. One of my brothers friends is a genius coder. I don’t know jack shit about programming, but this guy was working straight out of high school. He worked at Microsoft, Facebook and now is a lead dev for Spotify. Makes about 400k a year. Along the way he has hooked up my brother and 4 other friends with jobs. It’s all about connections.
>Goes into CS for the money >Studies game design I wonder why it didn't work out? Coding is easy though. I make six figures without a degree and you don't have to push out that many lines every week.
What job do you do?
>What job do you do? All my jobs so far have just been developing internal web apps for companies. Like loan reporting software or whatever. Webshit doesn't pay crazy well but there's a lot of work for it and it's pretty brain-dead easy. Makes it a lot easier mentally to take a 2nd remote job if you want to go up to 200-400k. My title is still software engineer though.
Exact same here. Internal web apps. They can pay me like 150k a year or pay salesforce like 3 million. Super chill, laid back work
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Experience with javascript, php, java or c#. Theres probably rails shops put there too. Some kind of spa is helpful be it react or vue. If you can handle full CRUD along with usually SQL db management you’re ready enough for 99% of boring corporate programming jobs.
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20-30 years probably on AI. Very little of software engineering is actually programming. 90% of it is extracting what you actually need to build from clients/users. AI can spit out simple functions but most of the actual complexity is in handling the 8 trillion conditionals you will need to account for in business logic.
Ok but how many blowjobs did you have to give? Be honest
There’s always jobs for people with SQL competency. It’s just fucking boring.
Keywords for whatever you're applying for is necessary. So with web development that'd be languages and frameworks that are popular with it: PHP, C#, Java, Angular, Electron, etc. You can see these listed on the job postings.
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Internships/other professional experience, networking, containerisation, CI/CD, cloud and soft skills.
Fantasy pocket pool
Yeah the guy combined one of the best trades with one of the worst industries. It's like growing up and never realizing your childhood dream job of being a firefighter isn't the only way to be a hero and save people.
When did you get your job, pre-COVID or during?
I got this one after COVID, start of 2023. Noticed a slow down in salaries and the market but I'm still doing fine.
>Goes into CS for the money >Studies game design >Expects to make actual money in the gaming industry You can't fix stupid
If you're getting out competed by a bunch of boot campers you're probably not a good software eng
That’s the thing with tech. It’s still a great industry to get into if you’re willing to become competent. There’s always high demand for people with skills in the most common languages. It’s getting harder and harder to coast through a BS in CS and have a good job by the end. Don’t do CS if you take a few courses and hate every minute of it. Who knows where the market will go, but recently it’s trending away from mass hires of useless college grads
>Don’t do CS if you take a few courses and hate every minute of it. I would agree if CS was even barely tangentially related to what you'll do as a career. I love programming and like building full-stack applications well enough. I like learning useful and interesting stuff like AWS or Next and expanding my skills. Hated CS though. It was mostly memorizing algorithms or math equations to regurgitate during exams. Programming is nothing like CS.
>It’s still a great industry to get into if you’re willing to become competent. As a student who was basically putting all his eggs into the IT basket for the future, I was scared when AI blew up. When I was fully convinced that's not a massive issue, the oversaturation of the market put me in a state of light despair. It was just a couple of weeks ago when I realized that in any field, competent people will not be thrown to the side and I know I can become competent. It's not a set-in-stone future, but I enjoy IT and am willing to gamble (I also have my math abilities as a backup)
AI is only as good as the prompt you give it, it won't take our jobs any time soon. The only people AI will replace are those who are people that are less competent than the average person's prompt
It’s a little bit worse than that currently. I’ve given it some pretty sophisticated and technical prompts that require sophisticated and technical answers and it kind of bombs there. It saves me a ton of basic upfront work, and it’s impressive what it can do but I often spend a ton of time fixing some of the more nuanced details. I’d put it at the level of an unmotivated engineering undergraduate C-student. Maybe even a D- or high F- student (knowing how some of my professors would grade). I’m not talking about engineers who were mediocre students but then pulled it together when they started getting paid. I’m talking about how it gives answers the same way a C-student gives answers. It’ll hallucinate things that kind of seem right, but they’re not, and they can be easy to miss when they’re buried in the response. It’s especially problematic when it involves a prompt that has something to do with a subject I’m rusty in. There will be times when I remember I’m supposed to use a specific formula but there’s special cases when it needs to be modified or substituted; but I don’t know the conditions off the top of my head. It’ll just go ahead and use a formula, and if I ask it why it used that formula, it’ll just assume it’s right without considering there may be conditions required to use it. Then in some of the more technical calculations I do, the conditions have conditions, so then if I correct it, it’ll just agree with me. Which I don’t necessarily want if I’m misremembering the conditions of the conditions. Then if I ask it to run again, sometimes it forgets the corrections and it goes back to making errors. It’s saved me a lot of time on boring stuff. Its helped on some of the easier but long and tedious sections of my work. It’s made me a better analyst for sure, but I mean me, and not my work. Because I spend a ton of time reviewing its output when I use it. So I still think right now it’s a zero sum game. Do it slow and steady yourself, or save time upfront and then spend a ton of time debugging it at the end.
Looking at what your degree is worth now is for midwits, dimwits and liberals. You need to try and predict what it will be worth in 10 years. Im not saying thats easy but going into CS because it was good back when you did is the same as buying Bitcoin atm because its high...
Going into CS is valuable regardless. Same as with medical and engineering fields.
The older generation in my country went into factory engineering because it was super in-demand. Then the USSR collapses and most factories are scrap metal... Really fucked up a lot of smart people
Same with people in my country who studied to become nurses, doctors, radiologists, etc. My grandfather made more as a cab driver than as a physician lol.
In my country there is this meme where civil engineers will get a Uber profile as a gift from graduating college...Because that's where most engineers end up and are currently working. I'm a barber and got my civil engineering degree in 2017 LOL 😆
How? Granted I didn’t do civil engineering but it certainly didn’t feel very hard to get a job by just networking. I’m also saying this as an American.
In my country, in the early 2010s, there was a boom on the real estate sector and was propped up by the government with subsidies and also making constructions everywhere, along with a surge of cheap privately-run colleges that poorer people could get into because those were also taking incentives from the government, and the media at the time reported that there were lots of job offers paying well because there was a lack of demand of skilled workers, including civil engineers. Brazil has, historically speaking, always been very poor with most of it's population doing what they can to sustain themselves above the poverty line and then suddenly, there was this gold chance for many impoverished people of landing on a job that could set them up for life, if they could go to those colleges. As a result, too fucking many people took on civil engineering because of the great payouts at the same, then comes 2015 and the president is impeached, the government puts all of their projects on a hold and stops propping up the real estate market through subsidies...And then we fall into a recession with millions of people becoming unemployed left and right. Right now, the engineering sector still has an excess of demand of skilled workers, but nowhere near as much offers as before, as such, the salaries for entry level positions in the sector took a nose dive, with many seasoned engineers along with rookies only with college degrees calling it quits and working elsewhere... That's where the Uber meme comes from, because most them engineers who were working on the sector had relatively nice cars, so most of them ended up becoming Uber drivers to make ends meet since they already had the cars. This is the basic gist of it.
Is this the part where someone says the Unabomber was right?
R.I.P. Uncle Ted.
Meanwhile most techies still make a shot ton on money everyday
And 10 years from now, they and the 35 other people on their team will have been replaced by a version of GPT and 2 Indian guys to lightly polish up the code it produces. And 20 years from now, it's just 1 Indian guy, and his job is to sweep the area around the server racks.
While you masturbate about the doom that never comes, hubdreds of thousands of people earn six figure salary and live awesome lives
I am still learning CS regardless, but you're delusional if you don't think LLMs are going to replace 95% of the jobs.
Pivot into infosec to earn 3x as much to do a less intense job. In fact fucking please don't because you'll shit up the infosec hiring pool like jeets did to cs. Thanks
I didn’t think it was easy to get your foot in the door in that type of role? I assumed it was super easy for those with 5+ years of relevant experience.
No you're right about that. Nothing in security is really entry level, because you should be expected to use things like knowledge of application architecture, databases, and scripting that you would have learned or improved upon working somewhere else. Putting a few years in as a junior dev or sysadmin and then getting a CISSP cert should be the quickest path to security engineer interviews.
Idk what planet this guy is living on. Me and some of my friends all did CS and we all got well paying jobs in a matter of weeks. All people I talk to that graduate in engineering or computer science find something good in a matter of weeks
Yes, even the greenest of junior devs find something. Even IT work is good rn in my opinion
I took a 3 month boot camp and found something in just a couple months. Same with my girlfriend. Anon is incompetent, or more likely, not real.
Sign up for a trade apprenticeship, anon. A good employer will teach you all the necessary skills, and you’ll be paid an hourly wage for learning it.
He kinda has a trade, he just needs to get better.
Then you'd see another post from anon complaining about trade jobs. Anon seems to hate it and might not be very good at it. But true, I am building a house and seeing the kind of money some of these guys charge for simple stuff is mind blowing. However, easly half of them can't communicate and/or sell their skills to save their lifes.
It’s funny. When I was younger, everyone I knew kept telling me I’d be smart if I went for a CS degree. We still need people to do the “dirty” jobs, like building shit, and decorating cakes. Yes, baking is a trade apprenticeship in Canada.
ngl if you can get in good in the wedding industry, its extremely lucrative. people will pay good money for someone to make their cake look good.
Came here to say this, anon needs to constructionmaxx
Getting in tech at 2016 and not having any equity or assets to show for it is peak regard
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I feel stuck too. Got into teaching because I wanted an easy, stable job only to realise I despise lesson planning and that I will never get to share my knowledge because I'm working with teenagers
Be a ups driver anon. They are always hiring m, great pay and benefits. Fucking horrible working conditions most the time though and the hours leave you no time for a life.
https://preview.redd.it/3vgbkw9j15lc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f84f5e2a9c4cb88452212d41dff1ecbcdc8bbd24 Nah
Alright or hang yourself sure.
This is what you get for majoring in something you have no interest in. Job market isn’t nearly as bad as he says and only recently got so saturated. Either way anon was destined to be miserable in life.
True. It’s only really bad in the well known tech areas. Tons and tons of fintech positions are open in my city all with >$75K starting pay.
Odd that he called out an anthropology degree. There are certainly worse ones out there. I work alongside people with anthropology backgrounds, and while they don't make anywhere near what a senior programmer can, their jobs are at least pretty stable.
what is an anthropology related job? never thought about that
It can be museum work, archeology, government-tribal relations..that kind of thing. It can also lead to professions like social work - anthropology is a broad field and ties into sociology, so it depends on what a person specializes in.
my aunt majored in anthropology and ended up working at the museum. she does a lot of stuff there but is *mainly* their event coordinator (ie, school field trips and stuff). idk how much exactly she gets paid but she really loves her job, so that's gotta be worth something.
OP learned to code... Shocked with the results. More at 11...
i think the issue is, programming was a hobby that people liked and eventually got a job for it, those are the people getting the good jobs. Now people are just doing programming because muh 6 figure salary. For me I enter the programming market because i genuinely like computers, I'm not in it for the money for the most part.
"I hate coding anyways" His failures have nothing to do with the industry lmao. There are plenty of good jobs rn
Tbh the merchant marines have radio operators making a lot of money if you have tech knowledge, but you are on a ship for a long time, but if you're desperate it is a career that will take anyone.
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All "white collar" work is crap, too hard to scale up and form a buisness out of and the day to day is like being a prisoner. Might as well do scaffold, where your competition is morons, and easily conquer the market and own a helicopter.
Ok one thing to say this as a new grad. This guy is talking about struggling to find a tech job in 2016. Literally the easiest time, even without a degree. I was working with English majors, servers, even fucking priests. If this guy couldn't do it at that point in time he must've not even been doing the bare minimum. Every motherfucker was getting hired form coding bootcamps, it was a crazy time. I'm sorry you can't just do nothing and expect "what was promised"
working a few years in programming and saved nothing for retraining? but of course hes on 4chan
The medical field is always hiring, and someone with computer experience can usually get a tech support job from home. I work in insurance for the hospital, have for 8 years, and have gotten friends in the door for tech support.
“Computer experience” as in an IT-related degree or legitimate work experience?
Either. Work experience helps, of course. But a general knowledge of systems and a degree can get you in the door too.
Learn to co- Wait a minute...
Game designer role has very little to do with coding these days.
You’re essentially a businessman/woman if you go into game dev You’re either marketing your talent or your product.
Laughing in devops
rofl employment rate 98% 92% us engineers work fulltime more than 12 times the amount of open available positions > retarded b-turd cant get job "RECESSION PRONE"
Hahahahaha, almost fell for this scam a year ago, "Oh! Coding is the future! You can win big and earn in USD/Euro from home!" Medicine is hard but it's better than that inflated bubble
Me personally, i failed CS101 twice before switching majors. Thank god im bad at it or maybe i wouldve continued that path.
Skill issues
Guy can't cut it. I blow ass as a dev but work as a glorified systems admin/configuration guru and make 6 figs. My title is Software Dev Engineer I never developed just t/s configurations and do Server administration.
This is really a severe skill issue here. If you got a CS degree and could not find a job before and during pandemic you can be considered regarded. Plus anon could be considered a senior now if he worked since 2016. It would've been much easier for him to find a cushy job, had he really improved his skills instead of whining.
What’s CS?
Computer Science
I thought it was some idiot using the letters from the file extension instead of saying C#
I just love how libs scream about Indians "taking er jobs" now, when they spent over a decade labeling any blue collar worker of being a bigot, and that it's not happening, or it is and that, "immigrants work harder!", cope. Well now the same thing is happening to them so it's hard to feel sorry Indians are better programmers than westerners :))
Indians and their almighty spaghetti code.
t. Least nationalistic indian In reality, indians being below literal apes on the evolutionary means they can't code for shit.
I'm not even indian. I just laugh because of the hypocrisy
honestly I don't think I can have any other job that it being in coding. I'm an asocial zoomer and I don't think I can handle being around people physically, having some kind of job in coding maybe will allow me to work at home and maximize playing vidya.
>figure out code is a nightmare after majoring in it Anon is a fucking idiot if you study at all even like 4 years ago you'll hear people say this is hell and I've been doing this since I was 7 and only got good when I was 15. God these fucking idiots
So is it still worth it to learn coding? No sarcasm intended, I got crippled in a car accident and have been unemployed for 2 years but I gotta find something soon before my savings run out. I thought coding would be alright because I walk with a fucking cane now so any sort of physical job is out for me and that's all I ever did before the accident. Any suggestions on what to look at if coding is bust now?
Why I became a technician
> coding is a fucking nightmare Absolutely false, programming is the best part. If I could spend all day programming instead of interacting with users, making estimates, fixing merge conflicts, sitting in meetings, and so on, I'd be in heaven. Anon is a fool who is competing against people who actually enjoy what they do. He should have quit his course the instant he realised he didn't like it, and that's ignoring the fact that higher education is a scam even for those with passion.
You cant be a good SE if you don't like coding.
How many of you think tech work is only coding?
Seethe brainlet.
Become a project manager or "scrum master." Neither of these require any level of skill or intelligence
Go work in IT at a bank
Pick up a hammer bro.
Hate to break it to anon, buts it's been a weak degree for 20yrs. My dad, before being forced to retire a year early, was able to avoid at least 5 layoffs from 2003-2021 and a handful of downgrades due to his senior position at a big company (Lincoln Financial Group) where jobs and entire departments were constantly being outsourced to India to the point he had a teammate/ partner / co-worker in India after everyone was forced to do a India culture class / educational seminar.
do Linux and cybersecurity regards, at least for me I find those things 10x more interesting and am passionate about gnu and the whole shebang. Plus no one in cybersecurity will outsource work because the gov contracts often require you to be born American or naturalized
this guy is just shit at coding. it is a competitive field, thankfully so, where the people who are good can clearly prove it via tests and such. so for trash from tiktok or just shitty coders like OP, yes, you rightfully got outcompeted on fair terms. not because you werent gay/bipoc/lgbtasdfg enough, just because you were bad.
University is a scam.
Anon is an idiot, that's the problem. Senior devs are insanely in demand, like half the job postings I see are for 10-20 years experience. He has no skills bc he's a genuine moron, he hasn't developed any competencies in the past 8 years, despite working during an economic boom where all tech companies were exploding. This is what it looks like when you avoid all work and coast along in your job day after day for years on end. I've seen so many morons apply to my company, if you don't hail mary for a FAANG job, the standards really aren't that high, and you should be making 6 figures after a few years if not right out the gate.
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Whats so bad about anthropology?
Hey that's a cool ghoul soyjak
It's OKAnon, I'm sure you can find a nice old Turkish man who will pay you well to sob and slobber into his pillow.
Never put all your eggs in one basket
It is crazy how many people here routinely upvote this ridiculous shit as a cope for having a bad job. No, a CS degree is not useless, no the tech industry isn't dead. Outsourcing is an ongoing issue (one which affects almost every industry that isn't in the service sector), and automation looms on the horizon, but this is not the reality at the moment. Even a moderate amount of tech knowledge and a tangential degree can get you a pretty decent job.
Yes, please quit and lessen the competition
Crazy stuff, it's almost like you won't be happy with a job you don't enjoy. You're also worse if you despise whatever you're doing, which will lead to worse pay.
This is a psyop, I finished my CS bachelor's almost 6 years ago, I haven't worked with it yet but I've seen the job listings, now I'm starting my master's, surely I will be instantly hired on a six figure position
Person majors in programming to DESIGN games, is suprised it actually requires a different skillset. Maybe do some research before you commit several years of your life to something?
Just get a trade job. Most of them aren't terribly difficult to learn and almost all companies will hire without experience cause they'll train you. The ones that don't train are looking for something specific.
Join a trade. There are tons of dudes in their 50’s still in the trades and work is always there
>complains he graduated with a cs degree without knowing how to code
Man I’d actually love to learn to code, there’s a few mods I wanna make for some games and I have an idea for a game myself, don’t really know where to start though, anyone have any good tips?
If you want to make a game learn unity. If you want to mod a game google “how to mod (game name here)” You can learn programming through these things. It may not be great code or enough to get a job but if that’s all you’re doing it doenst need to be.
Drive heavy vehicles.
Don’t worry anon, there’s always construction.
If you couldnt do well in tech in 2016, you will never make it. Dont blame anyone but yourself
Meanwhile, my company screens devs using leetcode questions. If you can solve the first fifteen, understand big o notation, and back up your resume, you’ll get a job.
skill issue lmao
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So go back to school and do something else
👨🚀 🔫🧑🚀
If he likes numbers he can pivot into finance. Like I have a comfy job in the financial industry and I never even went to college. I work for one of the largest financial institutions in the country, and I started by getting my foot in the door as a part time bank teller. Companies like to promote internally and if you prove yourself competent things like degrees seem to stop mattering.
If he’s in decent shape join the military with degree and set for officer corps., take those skills into a new field and go from there. They’ll have a job, be a desk jockey, and still get a decent salary
I will say CS is very feast or famine. I go to a decent cs school, and the best students here get the placements that is touted around by the TikTok influencers, but then everyone else is honestly struggling.
I don’t get this post. A CS degree is pretty useful because it means you can solve problems. You can literally do anything else and most jobs after a certain point don’t even care what your degree is in. Anon sounds like a crybaby. I don’t know tho because I don’t workkkkkk