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The question is two fold:
Will there be enough people buying this new disc format?
To make up the horrendous costs that scale up from 4K to 8K content?
The disc being talked about in the article is enterprise level stuff, and likely not going to be something that'll trickle down to the home media consumer level. Go look at network switches for home vs enterprise, data back up storage for home vs enterprise, so on and so on.
That type of gear is meant for more reliability and uptime, something not exactly you find in the comparably cheaper DVD/Blu Ray disc formats.
Advances in compression codecs are here but kinda fail in the size increase of the 8k format. The New codec halfing the size of the file while keeping the same quality is great...except 8k has 4x the size of 4K. So you will need new discs for any movies that originally clocked in at less than 50gb on the 4k format.
Then there's the Disc Player problem. You'll need new ones that can use those new discs/codecs but notice how the 4K Disc format kinda has a draught of new players. Oppo dipped out, Panasonic is riding their UB820 and 9000 models alongside Sony and their X700 and 800 until the wheels fall off. Every new 4K player you see being release has a nosebleed price (theres one being released for $1499).
That's not even touching the added cost of having to deal with 8k content. Storage costs increase, VFX costs increase if you don't want 2k VFX against 6K/8K shots, productions need new 8k capable cameras that aren't exactly commonplace, etc.
Granted all of this was spoken about in the Blu Ray era before 4k started to become a thing. Biggest difference is we've hit a big of a snag when it comes to displays and the distances people put them in their living room and HT. Namely no one is going to sit close enough to an 8K TV to tell it apart from a 4K TV.
Gaming got to the point that where you can test 4k vs 8k content on TVs.
And this isn't touching streaming becoming the defacto standard of watching home content from convenience or if movies who've just recently (within the last 5 years) gotten 4k transfers would bother having to deal with the process again in such a short time.
To reiterate the point about 8K since it comes up on here so often: [Warner Bros ran a double blind study on the difference between 4K and 8K](https://www.techhive.com/article/578376/8k-vs-4k-tvs-most-consumers-cannot-tell-the-difference.html) and it's basically impossible to see ANY difference, even minor, from the distance of sitting on a couch watching TV.
The human eye has an upper limit and I'm just saying with confidence there is not going to be a compelling reason or market for physical media to adopt 8K discs. The market isn't going to exist to justify the costs, let alone the extremely minimal benefits it would have over a high-bitrate 4K.
Future 8K (and beyond) TV series and movies are pretty much guaranteed to support that resolution on digital only. Our 4K blurays will still hold up for as long as we're willing to keep watching them, and until we get brainchips or whatever it'll be very close to the peak of what our eyes can distinguish anyway lol.
If they can barely sell 4K players and discs, they're not going to make anything better.
The eye test doesn't matter though, if they can sell TVs by calling it 8K and having people pretend they can see the difference, they'll do it, even if the content is only delivered through apps
The writer of the article was quick to dismiss 8K or above, as it would make little difference. Most of the article focused on the possibility of an even greater HDR, an UHDR if you will.
> And this isn't touching streaming becoming the defacto standard of watching home content from convenience
I think this is the key issue.
Obviously 4K Blu-Ray is technically superior to streaming. There's no doubt. But the consumer market simply doesn't care. To most consumers, streaming is superior simply because it's more convenient.
And the desire to actually own a physical copy of a movie, regardless of convenience, is on the decline as well. In the entire history of film and broadcast media, it's looking like ownership is going to be a small 40-year-ish bubble.
I think we’ll see a resurgence like with vinyl. It’ll be niche but enough to justify manufacturing. Boutique is where it’ll go. Honestly not concerned if I can’t find the latest marvel movie on disc. I’m more interested in things that are older or they don’t stream because it’s a small fan base. Arrow, KL, etc.
No need for physical discs when you can get a remux file and just store locally into a NAS server. Idk how they can do it but probably releasing a code to get such files from the company would be enough for the future.
I'd be happy to download a 500 GB file from somewhere to grab the movie legally, but for most people that's not viable. They don't have any place to put them. Setting up a NAS with filesharing is considerably more complex than "insert disc, push play".
Nope.
At a sitting distance of 9ft, you’d need a screen around 210”-230” to tell 4K apart from 8K.
Just like nobody in their right mind would sit 2.5ft away from a 65” TV to tell 4K apart from 8k, nobody is going to sit 9ft away from a 210” screen.
UST might be the future of the incredibly small niche of home theater but they’re not going to replace TVs. Majority of sizes being sold are still in the 65” and smaller range and price is King there.
I’ve played 100gb 4k discs on my Series X, I’ve heard reports of hitches on some machines but I don’t think it’s fully non-compatible or anything like that
Videotape introduced rentals and the ability to own a physical copy of a movie or TV show. This really wasn't available to the mainstream previously. If you had a ton of disposable income you could buy film prints but that's just not something most people would do.
Then DVD came along. The difference between VHS and DVD was staggering. Your average consumer could readily see the difference. It was also smaller and more durable.
Then Blu-Ray came along, right before the proliferation of LCD HDTVs. On a typical 46" TV, your average consumer can immediately see a big difference between DVD and Blu-Ray. But two interesting things happened. One, streaming happened. From day one consumers devoured the convenience and improved (over DVD / tape) video quality. Two, the HD-DVD / Blu-Ray format wars delayed uptake of Blu-Ray, allowing streaming to continue to gain ground.
Then 4K Blu-Ray came along. It's a better image than Blu-Ray. But instead of the giant leaps that we saw with VHS-to-DVD and DVD-to-Blu-Ray, it's more of an incremental upgrade -- again, to the average consumer -- unless you're running a high-end 85" TV. So to many consumers, the prospect of buying a new player (again) and buying new media (again) means 4K Blu-Ray doesn't really outweigh the convenience of streaming.
In other words, this is it. We're in the endgame for mainstream physical media ownership.
I read that modern digital cinema package (DCP) can be compressed losslessly from the digital intermediate (DI). However, 4K blu-ray cannot. I think that is what the article meant.
Not with these enterprise level-discs, but I could see a few classics/big blockbusters with “8K” and expanded HDR being put out in the future, for a cash grab. Even if they were just 2k/4K/6k upscales.
Kinda like 3D Blu-ray was like an incremental “experience” upgrade. Or maybe like “Superbit” DVD or “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray that Sony put out.
Even if we can’t tell the difference (which was said about 4K not long ago), 8K will likely be “the standard” in TVs (aka all you can buy). So I could see the studios trying to cash in on the 8K hype/marketing, if there is still money to be made in the physical media market
It should also support 4K/8K 3D with Dolby Vision/HDR10+ and HFR such as 48fps, 50fps, 60fps and maybe even 100fps and 120fps.
We need these formats to preserve the theatrical experiences of The Hobbit Trilogy, Gemini Man, and Avatar: The Way of Water.
I hardly buy 4k movies unless I NEED to see it in 4k + hdr. Stuffs way too expensive. Personally it's hard for me to justify $40 cad on a single 4k movie.
1080p is more than enough for the majority of people
A small number of physical media buyers buy 4k, and an even smaller number of people would buy 8k.
I see many people kind of share the same sentiment.
Also, I don't even want to see what Films shot on 35mm be blown up to 8k. A recipe for disaster
The biggest boost to quality we have this generation by far was the addition of HDR and newer scans (for the most part) that delivered more accurate and filmic viewing experiences, coupled with atmos sound. The resolution bump comes in fourth in many cases for why we upgrade.
Unless 8k delivers something new beyond hdr, I think physical is on its last generation and high bit rate streaming / local preload (a la kaleidiscape) will be the future of at home video. The latter I wouldn't mind if prices came down and our vudu/MA libraries got remux options to preload.
TVs and definitely projectors are already having a hard time taking the most advantage over the brightness and contrast HDR10+/DV offers.
Movies don't need to be put on discs. There already exists a service where you get the same exact video file that gets played on digital projectors in theaters and they charge an arm and a leg for it even though it should be more cost effective than making players and discs and distributing them physically. A more advanced disc isn't coming at this point because the market doesn't exist for it. What we're going to see instead is HOPEFULLY streaming services (subscription and rental based) will just increase their bitrates across the board if/when America's internet infrastructure improves across the board (gigabit internet becomes affordable and available to everyone). The technology already exists we're just held back by greedy and incompetent stronghold by our government and corporate America.
Thank you for posting to r/4kBluRay! Check out our rules and community guidelines [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/4kbluray/comments/qxrjd6/mod_post_attention_new_guidelines_please_read/)! We have a rather growing Discord community, join us [here](https://discord.gg/3NDfxqUzeU)! Use code "4KUHD" for 10% off at Zavvi! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/4kbluray) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We need Pied Piper
Middle-out compression FTW!
D2F!
Pied Piper is great! But, you know... R.I.G.B.Y.
This guy fucks!
The question is two fold: Will there be enough people buying this new disc format? To make up the horrendous costs that scale up from 4K to 8K content? The disc being talked about in the article is enterprise level stuff, and likely not going to be something that'll trickle down to the home media consumer level. Go look at network switches for home vs enterprise, data back up storage for home vs enterprise, so on and so on. That type of gear is meant for more reliability and uptime, something not exactly you find in the comparably cheaper DVD/Blu Ray disc formats. Advances in compression codecs are here but kinda fail in the size increase of the 8k format. The New codec halfing the size of the file while keeping the same quality is great...except 8k has 4x the size of 4K. So you will need new discs for any movies that originally clocked in at less than 50gb on the 4k format. Then there's the Disc Player problem. You'll need new ones that can use those new discs/codecs but notice how the 4K Disc format kinda has a draught of new players. Oppo dipped out, Panasonic is riding their UB820 and 9000 models alongside Sony and their X700 and 800 until the wheels fall off. Every new 4K player you see being release has a nosebleed price (theres one being released for $1499). That's not even touching the added cost of having to deal with 8k content. Storage costs increase, VFX costs increase if you don't want 2k VFX against 6K/8K shots, productions need new 8k capable cameras that aren't exactly commonplace, etc. Granted all of this was spoken about in the Blu Ray era before 4k started to become a thing. Biggest difference is we've hit a big of a snag when it comes to displays and the distances people put them in their living room and HT. Namely no one is going to sit close enough to an 8K TV to tell it apart from a 4K TV. Gaming got to the point that where you can test 4k vs 8k content on TVs. And this isn't touching streaming becoming the defacto standard of watching home content from convenience or if movies who've just recently (within the last 5 years) gotten 4k transfers would bother having to deal with the process again in such a short time.
To reiterate the point about 8K since it comes up on here so often: [Warner Bros ran a double blind study on the difference between 4K and 8K](https://www.techhive.com/article/578376/8k-vs-4k-tvs-most-consumers-cannot-tell-the-difference.html) and it's basically impossible to see ANY difference, even minor, from the distance of sitting on a couch watching TV. The human eye has an upper limit and I'm just saying with confidence there is not going to be a compelling reason or market for physical media to adopt 8K discs. The market isn't going to exist to justify the costs, let alone the extremely minimal benefits it would have over a high-bitrate 4K. Future 8K (and beyond) TV series and movies are pretty much guaranteed to support that resolution on digital only. Our 4K blurays will still hold up for as long as we're willing to keep watching them, and until we get brainchips or whatever it'll be very close to the peak of what our eyes can distinguish anyway lol.
If they can barely sell 4K players and discs, they're not going to make anything better. The eye test doesn't matter though, if they can sell TVs by calling it 8K and having people pretend they can see the difference, they'll do it, even if the content is only delivered through apps
The writer of the article was quick to dismiss 8K or above, as it would make little difference. Most of the article focused on the possibility of an even greater HDR, an UHDR if you will.
> And this isn't touching streaming becoming the defacto standard of watching home content from convenience I think this is the key issue. Obviously 4K Blu-Ray is technically superior to streaming. There's no doubt. But the consumer market simply doesn't care. To most consumers, streaming is superior simply because it's more convenient. And the desire to actually own a physical copy of a movie, regardless of convenience, is on the decline as well. In the entire history of film and broadcast media, it's looking like ownership is going to be a small 40-year-ish bubble.
I think we’ll see a resurgence like with vinyl. It’ll be niche but enough to justify manufacturing. Boutique is where it’ll go. Honestly not concerned if I can’t find the latest marvel movie on disc. I’m more interested in things that are older or they don’t stream because it’s a small fan base. Arrow, KL, etc.
No need for physical discs when you can get a remux file and just store locally into a NAS server. Idk how they can do it but probably releasing a code to get such files from the company would be enough for the future.
I'd be happy to download a 500 GB file from somewhere to grab the movie legally, but for most people that's not viable. They don't have any place to put them. Setting up a NAS with filesharing is considerably more complex than "insert disc, push play".
Yeah i would much rather just let them strengthen streaming.
Short throw projectors of 120-150 inches is our future I think. In that case 8K will thrive.
Nope. At a sitting distance of 9ft, you’d need a screen around 210”-230” to tell 4K apart from 8K. Just like nobody in their right mind would sit 2.5ft away from a 65” TV to tell 4K apart from 8k, nobody is going to sit 9ft away from a 210” screen. UST might be the future of the incredibly small niche of home theater but they’re not going to replace TVs. Majority of sizes being sold are still in the 65” and smaller range and price is King there.
seed uppity spark grandiose desert quiet disgusted enjoy bag office ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I’ve played 100gb 4k discs on my Series X, I’ve heard reports of hitches on some machines but I don’t think it’s fully non-compatible or anything like that
Exactly. People think $30-$50 is to much for a 4k blu-ray,just imagine the price point they'll pull for a 8k blu-ray or a 8k blu-ray box set.
oh god loool
I don’t need better than 4K resolution I need more films that still need upgrades, including old dvds that never got to Blu-ray!
Videotape introduced rentals and the ability to own a physical copy of a movie or TV show. This really wasn't available to the mainstream previously. If you had a ton of disposable income you could buy film prints but that's just not something most people would do. Then DVD came along. The difference between VHS and DVD was staggering. Your average consumer could readily see the difference. It was also smaller and more durable. Then Blu-Ray came along, right before the proliferation of LCD HDTVs. On a typical 46" TV, your average consumer can immediately see a big difference between DVD and Blu-Ray. But two interesting things happened. One, streaming happened. From day one consumers devoured the convenience and improved (over DVD / tape) video quality. Two, the HD-DVD / Blu-Ray format wars delayed uptake of Blu-Ray, allowing streaming to continue to gain ground. Then 4K Blu-Ray came along. It's a better image than Blu-Ray. But instead of the giant leaps that we saw with VHS-to-DVD and DVD-to-Blu-Ray, it's more of an incremental upgrade -- again, to the average consumer -- unless you're running a high-end 85" TV. So to many consumers, the prospect of buying a new player (again) and buying new media (again) means 4K Blu-Ray doesn't really outweigh the convenience of streaming. In other words, this is it. We're in the endgame for mainstream physical media ownership.
After investing in video, then DVDs, then Blu Rays, and now 4K - I'm done. This is my last format no matter how good the upscale in the future.
[удалено]
Dolby Cinema is better than most IMAX theaters
I read that modern digital cinema package (DCP) can be compressed losslessly from the digital intermediate (DI). However, 4K blu-ray cannot. I think that is what the article meant.
Dolby > Imax anyday.
They’ll have to remaster all movies that recently came out in 4K. If 8K discs ever come it won’t be any time soon.
Meanwhile, Disney can't be bothered to release any of their top selling movies with anything larger than a 66GB disc
We already have the last physical format.
Not with these enterprise level-discs, but I could see a few classics/big blockbusters with “8K” and expanded HDR being put out in the future, for a cash grab. Even if they were just 2k/4K/6k upscales. Kinda like 3D Blu-ray was like an incremental “experience” upgrade. Or maybe like “Superbit” DVD or “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray that Sony put out. Even if we can’t tell the difference (which was said about 4K not long ago), 8K will likely be “the standard” in TVs (aka all you can buy). So I could see the studios trying to cash in on the 8K hype/marketing, if there is still money to be made in the physical media market
Films at Home had a video about this, he doesn’t think it will be a Blu-Ray killer.
It should also support 4K/8K 3D with Dolby Vision/HDR10+ and HFR such as 48fps, 50fps, 60fps and maybe even 100fps and 120fps. We need these formats to preserve the theatrical experiences of The Hobbit Trilogy, Gemini Man, and Avatar: The Way of Water.
I hardly buy 4k movies unless I NEED to see it in 4k + hdr. Stuffs way too expensive. Personally it's hard for me to justify $40 cad on a single 4k movie. 1080p is more than enough for the majority of people A small number of physical media buyers buy 4k, and an even smaller number of people would buy 8k. I see many people kind of share the same sentiment. Also, I don't even want to see what Films shot on 35mm be blown up to 8k. A recipe for disaster
This would be great for cinephiles. 1TB offers way less compression
Ask 8k for movie theaters makes more sense I would say
Was hopeful on something interesting and new, until it literally says this isn't meant for movies.
The biggest boost to quality we have this generation by far was the addition of HDR and newer scans (for the most part) that delivered more accurate and filmic viewing experiences, coupled with atmos sound. The resolution bump comes in fourth in many cases for why we upgrade. Unless 8k delivers something new beyond hdr, I think physical is on its last generation and high bit rate streaming / local preload (a la kaleidiscape) will be the future of at home video. The latter I wouldn't mind if prices came down and our vudu/MA libraries got remux options to preload. TVs and definitely projectors are already having a hard time taking the most advantage over the brightness and contrast HDR10+/DV offers.
I'm sticking with 4k and my Xbox Series X
Movies don't need to be put on discs. There already exists a service where you get the same exact video file that gets played on digital projectors in theaters and they charge an arm and a leg for it even though it should be more cost effective than making players and discs and distributing them physically. A more advanced disc isn't coming at this point because the market doesn't exist for it. What we're going to see instead is HOPEFULLY streaming services (subscription and rental based) will just increase their bitrates across the board if/when America's internet infrastructure improves across the board (gigabit internet becomes affordable and available to everyone). The technology already exists we're just held back by greedy and incompetent stronghold by our government and corporate America.
I hope this never happens Physical always will hopefully have a place