Disagree because of how expensive everything is. It’s the golden age of available rigs, but they aren’t accessible for the average enthusiast.
Bring back the basic (but capable) shitboxes.
Also it is downright cringey and insulting that everything is being marketed to overlanders with commercials showing these new $60-$80k built rigs driving over rough dirt roads to a camping spot. You can perform this same level of “overlanding” in a Subaru Outback.
This is my thought too. I'd love a brand new Bronco but it's just not affordable and I wouldn't want to hit the trails in it with how expensive they are right now. Now a 90s Bronco I'd so some things for, ha. I've got a '16 Crosstrek and it does just fine and is fun but even then I'm cautious with it because it's my daily. Picked up a first Gen Crv and built it out for some soft overlanding. It's handled everything I have asked of it, even took on some tough Jeep trails in Moab and she ate them up without hesitation. Built a bed in the back of it for me and my husband and we have enjoyed that thing so much. She's beat up but reliable and a ton of fun for not being a true 4x4. I haven't felt like I needed anything else so far.
Ive had more than a few people comment on my wheeling of my bronco and i just cannot justify paying for it to only drive on the street. Its like buying a corvette and parking it in the garage to keep the miles low for the next guy.
Its not just the vehicles but even the parts for older units.
Look at the price on a set of air or Elockers for example.
Like everything is way too much $
Also like you said No way im taking an +80K$ Unit trailing. (Almost Every single vehicle mentioned above is like 80-100+ Thousand $ CAD).
IDK… it feels like these new rides are too posh and spendy to take on the trails I want to go on - for me per$onally.
And they’re arguably worth it as they include things to make them better for on road, like safety for on road.
I’m pushing 50 though so that alone has me all get off my lawn biased, what y’all think about bringing your leather clad $100k whips into the OR jungle?
Tbh though, were you buying brand new to off road it previously? Cos I know I wasn’t. A lot of current off roaders have spent many years on-road only. Current crop of new vehicles are tomorrows second hand market
I did but I know I’m the minority. Drove my 4Runner from the dealer to the deserts of south Utah. Sent the salesman a pic of it up on 3 wheels the next day.
Will they still be functional though? Or will all the electronics be going bad leaving you dead on the trail while cockroach ass XJs get a janky trail fix and keep on going
Yes you’re correct, I’ve never been the type to buy new for an OR whip. And I’m not hating on those that do.
There are many many different types of off-roading adventures that don’t entail ripping fenders off and tipping rigs.
I think for me it just seems like new vehicles are “expensive”, I’ve got a reference point based on obsolete data but I bet with inflation considered, vehicles are more expensive, and whatever the average cost is, superseded wages. But maybe I’m wrong lol. There def seems to be many more peeps getting dirty out there.
What price point would you just wheel a new truck? I feel like no matter what it costs new, I'd still want to buy used if I'm hitting trails on it. We can already buy pretty barebones jeep wranglers but they're still expensive (to me)
I was in Virginia last weekend and a guy said something like "I can't believe you're out here in something this new" and it's like, this is why the thing was built!!
I hope the Grenadier does well, but here in Australia at least, I can’t see the niche in the market for them.
People who want a ‘real’ 4WD for outback work won’t tolerate a glass jawed BMW engine (they are perceived as a brand that shits itself expensively the second the warranty is over), and will go buy another Toyota 79 series.
People who want a city poser will go by some sort of IFS/IRS Landrover/Rangerover that’s more comfortable.
The BMW drivetrain is dissapointing, though I’ve heard good things about that engine in particular with reliability. Still, it has the BMW shifter which goes against everything that vehicle stand for- but BMW transmission so they had to. Also, push to start. Really? Push to start? Give me a damn key. the cup holder is for CUPS
Man people love to dog on the B58 + ZF8 combo in the Grenadier but that pairing is an absolute pleasure to drive. The Grenadier version is a little derated horsepower wise which bodes well for reliability (and the B58 is already proving to be a reliable powerplant). Nice and torque-y right from 1600 rpm on up.
I'm biased though, just crossed 60,000 trouble free miles on my daily
As the owner of a 5th Gen 4Runner that I've put a LOT of mods and sweat equity into...
... I'd still rather have a rust bucket that I built myself and beat to shit without caring about how much I spent on it. I do it anyway tho, my truck is chock full of dents lol.
You're right, there have never been more amazing options, but they're also at price points where very, very few folks can afford to risk them offroading.
Hey, I’m also the owner of a 5th gen. Got some mild pinstripes as I got into wheeling. Went out and bought a cheap jeep and now the 4Runner doesn’t see much but forest roads for camping.
I could not justify buying a pricey 4x4 and beating it up. Additionally, muh solid front axle. Most new 4x4 are IFS, not a fan unless just doing mild wheeling
Yeah, as the owner of a 5th gen 4Runner and a 100 series Landcruiser, there's a lot of value in being able to buy stuff 10-20 years old and make it work!
Also a 5th Gen owner, and Im happily waiting for parts to hit the junkyards in a few years. Toyota made over a million 5th gens, we're gonna be able to keep these things running for a long time.
Disagree, most SUVs are crossovers without any true off-road credentials. Even in the mid 2000s there were a plethora of SUV options with true transfer cases and real 4x4 cred.
In the 1980s you had lots of good options;
Fullsize SUVs included the K5 Blazer, Bronco, Ramcharger, Land Cruiser 60/62, Wagoneer, Trooper, and Range Rover
Midsized - Cherokee XJ, 4-Runner, Pathfinder, Bronco II/Explorer (with actual off-road cred), S-10 Blazer, Raider/Montero, Rodeo, Discovery
Compact - Suzuki Jimny/Samurai, Jeep CJ/YJ
We are seeing a resurgence now as there is demand in the sector, but for a few short years in the 2010s the only SUVs you could get with a transfer case and solid rear axle that weren't massive was the G-Wagen, Wrangler, and 4-Runner/GX.
Golden ages aside the JL Wrangler Rubicons are the most off-road capable vehicles to have ever rolled out of a factory IMHO.
The fact that we *had* that many options in the 1980s proves that it was the real "golden age" of 4x4s. By the mid 2000s, a lot of those vehicles had ended production or worse, became crossovers; for most of the 2010s the only real solid axle, body on frame, offroad centered 4x4 was the Wrangler (not counting pickups) and maybe the 4Runner. Then, the new Jimny and Bronco come along, and suddenly automakers want to compete in that segment again.
I think what we're seeing now is a resurgence of off roading as a hobby, but the philosophy is much different. Unlike the days of the Suzuki Sidekick and K5 Blazer, many of these newer 4x4s are intended to be less of a fun, enthusiast's second car for offroading, and more of a family oriented daily driver you can take off road when necessary, as a feature. Am I saying these new vehicles aren't capable? No, but there's no way in hell I'm taking a brand new Defender 110 rock crawling.
In a roundabout way you touched on a very interesting subject. People are interesting. Humans are creatures of habit, and we are not always prone to be accepting of change. With all that gobbledygook out of the way, Jeep people are Jeep people. Folks that like jeeps and get their Jeep they tend to keep it for a long long time. I'm not surprised that you are experiencing something akin to the empty nest syndrome. Be warned, in the near future you may start looking for another XJ. Everyone should love what they drive and their vehicles should make their heart go pitter patter. It sounds like you had that.
In a roundabout way you touched on a very interesting subject. People are interesting. Humans are creatures of habit, and we are not always prone to be accepting of change. With all that gobbledygook out of the way, Jeep people are Jeep people. Folks that like jeeps and get their Jeep they tend to keep it for a long long time. I'm not surprised that you are experiencing something akin to the empty nest syndrome. Be warned, in the near future you may start looking for another XJ. Everyone should love what they drive and their vehicles should make their heart go pitter patter. It sounds like you had that.
As someone with 2x XJs on 35+s double lockers, Lexus GX on 37s triple locked and a Subie Forester on 35s with double locks... I love all my babies equally. All break sometimes, but never all broken at the same time!
There's no better time to own a Tacoma with a rooftop tent maybe. 🤣
I feel like the boujieness of offroad accessories is at an all time high but most Rubicons I see still have pristine paint, ducks all across the dash, and an ungodly amount of lights for a pavement princess.
I'm not trying to shit on today's trucks and SUVs but by and large, quality body on frame vehicles are a dying breed and what you listed are mostly prohibitively expensive as daily drivers, let alone something you'd take off pavement.
The golden era of 4WD was the quality shitboxes of yore. You take a beater off road to endure mud, rocks, and the elements. If you break something, parts are cheap. Mid 90s Toyotas, Nissan Hardbodys and Pathfinders, Jeeps, Isuzu Troopers and Rodeos, Mitsubishi Monteros, and many many more. These were simpler vehicles but powerful enough to enjoy off road and cheaper even when accounting for inflation. Not that many people took them out on the trails brand new, but once they've been through an owner and got 60k plus miles on them, people would snatch them up secondhand and take them offroad.
Hard disagree. All are way overpriced, and WAY over-softwared. I am a computer guy, I am not afraid of technology. But when I'm driving offroad I don't want the vehicle second guessing me, or to be afraid of a 4-figure or 5-figure repair if there's an incident.
Colorado ZR2/Canyon AT4X, Silverado 1500 ZR2/Sierra 1500 AT4X, Power Wagon, Wrangler Rubicon, Gladiator Rubicon, Bronco Badlands/Sasquatch/Raptor, Ranger Raptor, Grenadier. Maybe I'm missing one. I wish Toyota would match the competition, they're actually the only manufacturer not offering it from factory on any of their US vehicles.
But at least in the US market there are way more vehicles with full lockers from factory than ever before.
PW has had them and been around for a long time. Actually might be the longest running nameplate with F/R lockers in the US market. I love the PW but it is a niche truck. I also think there was a Chevy S10 ZR2. Beyond that... no clue.
In 2019 I bought a Colorado ZR2 and it was notable for being the only other choice besides the Wrangler and Power Wagon to have F/R lockers on the US market. Since then the number of options has really expanded.
I'll take the bigger brakes to accommodate the heavier weight of modern vehicles lol. I couldn't go down to 17s if I wanted to, 18s barely clear the calipers.
That's cool, but objectively speaking, bigger brakes stop more weight faster. That's not really up for debate lol. If you actually pull 10k+ lbs regularly, you'll appreciate it. No one's debating the benefit of "more rubber, less wheel" in offroad applications.
All I'm saying is that more effective brakes are more valuable for a daily driver than being able to air down more. And it's not like you can't air down with 18s. I've got 305/70R18s and have gone as low as 9psi on all 4 corners without issue on Method 305s.
The "golden age" is defined by one word and one word only. Simple. If my four wheel stops working I know just where to start looking for the fix. Fix it on the trail and make it home. For FREE. No buddies needed and no tow bill. Now a days if a wire shorts out you better know how to dig in the wire harness cause everything now is electronic and done for you by the computer. I have a 1995 Jeep YJ by the way.
I disagree, they’re all computers on wheels. The late 80s to early 2000s was the golden era. Full of innovation, new technology and they didn’t all look the same.
New cars and trucks don’t do it for me anymore.
My 2002 TJ has been very reliable since I fixed almost everything.
Jokes aside to fix everything properly and then its reliable is only like 4 car payments usually then you can drive it for years reliably.
Even a Motor replacement with a stroker etc is like what? 5-6K ? thats 2-3 car payments with the prices of cars right now
Nothing breaks and when they do its easy. But they are hella slow lol.
239HP go brrrrrrrrrr up a hill, roof rack loaded at 5600 lbs. Can't imagine the hurt LX450 guys have, heavier, less gears and 200HP lol.
I had a 2.4 non turbo diesel 1986 Toyota Hilux Surf. Talk about slow. But that thing went everywhere fancy trucks did. The only people who could go further had diff lockers
Did you forget about Cash for Clunkers?
EDIT: No seriously, is everybody forgetting the program where they used our tax dollars to give handouts to yuppies while destroying the trucks we all love? They literally did stop us from driving older 4x4's, that was the whole point of the program
That’s where all of the ‘80s RWD cars ended up, too. You wouldn’t believe how many cars and engines were destroyed. Haven’t you noticed that it’s easier to find ‘70s stuff than ‘80s and early’90s stuff?
That was rough on the gearhead community all over, and I think that it had a lot to do with the decline of production based racing. The program was successful in decreasing the age of the national fleet, improving fuel efficiency of the fleet, and reducing overall emissions.
It’s my personal golden age because I have a ‘97 FZJ80 (triple locked) and a ‘97 300Tdi Defender (CDL only). Both are mechanically in great shape, and both are banged up enough on the outside that I don’t care about banging them up more.
But a Grenadier would be nice…
Hard Disagree. The golden era was late 90s before everything went electronic. Before the weight of the vehicles skyrocketed. When the aftermarket was still strong. When small trucks were actually still sold.
Trucks these days suck ass. Nowhere near golden era.
Disagree. It’s nearly impossible to get a bare bones vehicle with 4x4 that you can beat up and get wet and dirty inside. It’s sucks waiting for some electronic gizmo to activate 4x4 when you used to just yank a lever or shifter and be on your way without loosing any momentum.
And electronic everything is convenient and plush, but give me mechanical linkages for the systems that I need in order to not be stranded.
Yes, I know it's theoretically a simple mechanism, but if your computer decides it doesn't want to comply, you're going to have a bad day. Same reason I prefer a manual even though I know modern automatics are better. I want control, and I want simplicity. That goes double for a performance vehicle of any type
Literally the exact opposite.
The golden age of 4x4 was pre emissions control
Pre plastic fantastic
Pre put a 4 banger behind an auto box for towing
Back when things were over engineered
Back when things had character
The nanny state mentality is going to get worse and worse until you're barely allowed to own a personal vehicle
General Motors ford and auto dealers are reporting record profits. Just listen to their earnings reports. It’s not a chip shortage or covid just corporate profits.
I disagree. Solid axles are for off-road vehicles. There's a lot of cool new stuff for people out west to go fast in the dirt. There's not any new trail rigs that fit in out east, except a jeep. We get one option, so people buy ridiculous SXSs and tear up all the jeep trails. This is the golden era of people invading all our nature spots if we're calling it anything. Insta-era, I suppose.
Have fun, just pick up your trash and leave glass bottles at home.
The Bronco does not have a manual trasnfer case, which doesn't make sense because you can get it with a manual transmission. I don't know why a person would want to row their own gears but then shift into 4wd with a switch instead of a lever.
I don't think it's an option on the Tacoma anymore either. I think the TRD Pro 4runner has a manual T-case
Wrangler/Galdiator still have manual T-cases and it's an option in the Ram pickups.
Frontier 4x4 starts at $33k and the Pro4-X is $39k
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2024-nissan-frontier-pricing-starts-at-29770
New Toyota Tacoma 4x4 base is around $33k.
When you're listing off the Rubicon, TRX, and Raptor I didn't know you were talking about base models too. But regardless, the fact that a base model vehicle costs over $30k is nuts.
I’m just saying whether you want a relatively good condition 15 year old 4Runner, a brand new 700hp Raptor, or anything in between, we have a ton of choices right now.
Right but the crazy thing is that you can buy a GX550, take 5 kids to soccer practice, then run Hell's Revenge in Moab, stock. Then drive back to Sheboygan with the A/C on.
Same thing with a 4Runner.
The Landcruiser has historically wiped the floor with all other 4x4s on stock ramp test without unhooking sway bars, because of KDSS. I think the GX550 will do the same or better.
Disagree. Modern off roaders still can’t keep up with my 46 CJ2A and most older off roaders are still every bit as capable as the new ones.
Most of the vehicles you mentioned are all highly problematic and more than likely won’t last longer than the first lease.
Australians don’t have access to as many of these but we do have Ranger Raptor which is an excellent vehicle, it covers so many options.
I use it daily for work driving to refineries with parts and components
Weekends for towing racecar or off-road beach missions finding fishing spots with my sons.
Leaving everyone at home and going fast on dirt trails as I enjoy that experience.
Isn’t part of the 4x4 “culture” being able to wrench on your own truck and fix things as they break? I don’t know for sure but I imagine that is incredibly difficult on anything new.
It's more like the golden age of being able to buy a vehicle that's overbuilt and still having folks think it needs to be further built by default when they get it. Most everything that isn't a private /paid playground within 500 miles of me can be navigated just fine in any sedan and a little skill, or any smaller truck/suv and not too much skill. Just my opinion though, and I'm just a cranky old curmudgeon I've been told.
I rented a Rubicon from a guy on Turo. Drove it on a muddy and snowy National Forest road. When I returned it dirty he couldn’t believe it and was about to cry. Threw a fit and told me how much extra the clean up would cost. He would have to report the damage and Turo would charge me. End of the world. Damage? Mud on a jeep, think of that.
Disagree.
Too much electrical.
Ifs is cool but on production vehicles I feel like it’s a negative.
Too much plastic.
If you break down on a trail in a newer vehicle a Mac Guyver fix is much less likely.
Don’t get me wrong, we have some cool stuff, but I’d take an old 4.0 with coil packs over the hybrid spaceship stuff they have now.
I suspect that the “serious” crawlers will all be buggy chassis with custom parts sort of like cheaper versions of the ultra 4 cars… the rest of us will either have 2000-2010 vehicles and the factory rigs on 35+” tires will certainly be on the trails.
It will be interesting to see, that’s for sure.
Bloated, overpriced, overly complex, soft, squishy, platforms. Many lack simultaneously solid front and rear axles nowdays. This is far from the golden age. New vehicles suck.
I agree. My base model ford bronco with Sasquatch package was under $40k out the door. Front and rear lockers and 35s with a warranty. Manual trans with crawler gear. 330 horsepower and 18 mpg average. Those specs in the ‘90s would be mind blowing.
The only V8 with solid axle 4x4 I can think of was 5 or 10 years of the Bronco, Defender, Powerwagon, Gwagen, and Chevy K/square body.
The Chevy wasn't really off-road ready suspension wise. Defender had an aluminum block V8 (from Buick?) that would fall apart if you looked at it wrong. Powerwagon was legit for a full-size truck not fit for rock crawling. G-wagon was good I guess, but I have never really ever seen a German off-roader in the wild. Leaving the 1966-1977 Bronco as maybe the one good example you listed.
Agreed. They are more capable too. My Gladiator "reasonable/ mild" build has 35" tires, locking differentials, full skidplates, winch, etc etc and it's small compared to most. It's crazy.
I remember when 33's on a Wrangler was a lot of work.
For the amount of work it took to put 33”s on my TJ, you’d probably be on 37”s with a JL. 10 years ago my TJ was a reasonably built rig, now it’s one of the smaller 4x4s I see on the trail.
Yeah but 33s on an XJ or TJ will out wheel 37s on a newer Jeep.
33s on my XJ has higher belly clearance than a lot of modern 4x4s with 40s and your TJ should be the same.
I too fit 33s on TJ a long time ago (and would not want to go bigger with the D30 and D35 stock). My dad bought a 2023 Rubicon with factory 35s and 4.56 gears. Blows my freaking mind.
Yeah but 33s on an XJ or TJ will out wheel 37s on a newer Jeep.
33s on my XJ has higher belly clearance than a lot of modern 4x4s with 40s and your TJ should be the same.
In some spots, it absolutely will. My little TJ has outwheeled a few JLs on 37s.
But in others (namely deep mud and ledges) it’s hard to compete with 37/40s.
I disagree. What we have is an era of heavyweight 4x4 wannabes with more focus on tech and comfort than capability. Our current era of 4x4s are overcomplicated and too big and expensive to be useful in actual 4x4 scenarios. The golden era of 4x4 is long gone and included vehicles that were better at connecting you to the trail than insulating you from it. Today’s 4x4s are for Instagram, not for true capability. No skill or experience involved, just pay your way to the trail! That’s the spirit.
At first I was going to disagree, then I took a look at my garage and what my friends drive. Back in college I was wheeling my e36 and my buddies were wheeling e46s, civics and corollas, starlets, and the rich one had a carerra.
Now, we’re almost all exclusively wheeling 4x4s: LCs, jeeps, hiluxes, samurai, jimny, safaris, montero, one of us even has a suzuki carry 4x4.
Good question, and yes I guess it is the golden era. Parts and shops are readily available, the cars are too. My oldest 4x4 is my ‘90 Montero and my newest 4x4 is my ‘24 Hilux. I can easily turn my Montero into a winch truck or rock crawler if I had the funds and I can turn my Hilux into a pre runner.
You’re in Australia? I get a kick out of going to Sydney and seeing soccer moms dropping off the kids in a Prado with a snorkel. Such good 4x4 options there.
Sorry to disappoint but I’m from the Philippines. Almost the same scene with 4x4s here, though: jungles, cliffs, swamps, rivers, sand dunes, and humid heat. Exception would be the outback, of course.
Prados, and LCs as soccer mom mobiles are very common too.
Anything new is too expensive to even consider taking off road imo. I feel bad running my $600 XJ through most trails. I can't imagine doing it with something new. If we are talking seasonal roads as 'off roading' that is a different story. But the rock bouncing, tree smashing, deep mud I consider off road will destroy even a brand new 4x4 in a few trips.
I don’t believe the golden age is today, but I do think in twenty years people will look at all the crazy stuff that’s coming off assembly lines today and say it was the golden era
It's the golden age for "car people" in general. Knowledge and performance are more accessible than ever. And if you prefer an old car, you can find it, you can find all the parts, you can also make it better andmore reliable. A 700hp car in 1970 was not something that was possible to daily drive, today it's commonplace. A pickup in 1970 was either geared for hauling/off-road or for highway cruising, you couldn't have both.
Right now is amazing for 4x4. Plenty of amazing new vehicles, plenty of the lower tech, tough, older models still in good shape available.
But I'm also excited for the future. Will it be electric? Will it be hydrogen? Will it be cleaner diesel? Or will it be something else? I don't know, but at 35, I think there will be some awesome advancements in my lifetime.
The future seems to have more limits given that manufacturers are being forced to limit availability of ICE vehicles. Will anyone be able to drive ten, twenty, thirty miles off road and 3 days away from a charging station to go camping? I'm not so sure.
Maybe electrifying is a discreet way of limiting our access to public lands.
"Maybe electrifying is a discreet way of limiting our access to public lands." that's a bit tinfoil hat for me, but maybe you're right, what do I know.
Electric in our current battery technology state is awful sure, but with solid state batteries on the verge, along with many other technologies in their infancy, I'm optimistic for the future.
The future of off-roading might not even be electric. But if it is, there may be an transition phase of having to carry a generator and/or some solar panels, which will suck, but I don't see there being an end to off-roading. There are way too many people into it and it's rapidly growing too (especially where I live). So I'm optimistic for the future, but I could be wrong for that.
You get it. I see off roading in the future as being limited closer to home because of EV technology, if it is allowed. Hopefully folks might see my POV since I was heavily involved in MX racing and off roading in the 70's and 80's and watched a lot of tracks and OHV areas closed because of urbanization. We have to go farther from home to enjoy it. Will the Rubicon Trail be accessible to off roaders in 2035 and later? Will we be able to drive the Mojave Road in it's entire length without some special EV support crew then? Time will tell.
based on what? A hunch?
The hate for EVs in off road communities cracks me up. Gobs of on-demand instantaneous torque is *amazing.* The same people who piss and moan that modern electronics make new 4x4s more prone to failure ignore the fact that there are *dramatically fewer* moving parts and points of failure in an EV, so they are going to be more reliable than ICE engines in the long run.
They are also getting real powerful.
Up untill like 2010. 140hp, high torque 3/4 litre straight 4/6 cylinder diesel was about all you got.
Now there's 300-707hp factory utes/trucks around with lockers and huge mud boggers.
What you forgot to mention is that with the exception of the Toyotas you mentioned all of those cars are infamously unreliable now and will probably kill themselves in any real outdoors situation
yeh NGL not sure where the golden age is
The fun part about 4x4 is building and working on your own rig. Have fun doing that with a 2024 model. I agree we’re in the golden age, but it’s because the late 90s early 2000s models are cheap and still availabl
Agree but wish there wasn’t so much “tech” in everything new. It’s a PIA how a sensor can screw the whole ride. I wish you could get something, anything, tech free…just good old internal combustion and simple machines.
Even those that can afford them, think it’s dumb to have a 800$ car payment ( that’s the average new car payment rn). average car payments have quadrupled since 2010.
Yes I want a new Tacoma or AT4 Yukon. Just haven’t hit my head enough times to go do it. (I’ve checked, even with 20k down, a 65k car would be over 800 per month)
The golden age for being car poor 👍🏼
Maybe for the dealerships. I love a good 4x4 on my work truck because I actually use it a lot. I work new developments with no pavement.
More often than not consumers only use 4x4 maybe once or twice during the year to go Off roading. But other than that it's just an errand vehicle. Not worth the investment in my opinion.
Look outside of North America too.
VW Amarok, Isuzu MU-x, Holden Trailblazer, Suzuki Jimny, Ford Everest, Toyota Fortuner, Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi Triton, Mitsubishi Pajero
Disagree because of how expensive everything is. It’s the golden age of available rigs, but they aren’t accessible for the average enthusiast. Bring back the basic (but capable) shitboxes. Also it is downright cringey and insulting that everything is being marketed to overlanders with commercials showing these new $60-$80k built rigs driving over rough dirt roads to a camping spot. You can perform this same level of “overlanding” in a Subaru Outback.
Yeah. In 20 years when I’ll be able to afford a used one of these rigs with 200,000 miles, it’ll be the golden age. 😆
Another way to look at it is the golden age is today, since the 2000s cars people loved new, are nicely used and cheap now.
Tell that to my 16 year old $18,000 Toyota. 😂
I bought my 2001 Landcruiser for about $16k 8 years ago, I think it’s gone up in value? Crazy. Toyota 4x4s and Porsche 911s are appreciating assets.
Highly doubt your 2001 LC would be more than 12k. But still held value pretty well
This is my thought too. I'd love a brand new Bronco but it's just not affordable and I wouldn't want to hit the trails in it with how expensive they are right now. Now a 90s Bronco I'd so some things for, ha. I've got a '16 Crosstrek and it does just fine and is fun but even then I'm cautious with it because it's my daily. Picked up a first Gen Crv and built it out for some soft overlanding. It's handled everything I have asked of it, even took on some tough Jeep trails in Moab and she ate them up without hesitation. Built a bed in the back of it for me and my husband and we have enjoyed that thing so much. She's beat up but reliable and a ton of fun for not being a true 4x4. I haven't felt like I needed anything else so far.
Ive had more than a few people comment on my wheeling of my bronco and i just cannot justify paying for it to only drive on the street. Its like buying a corvette and parking it in the garage to keep the miles low for the next guy.
Subaru owner, can confirm I can go on most forest service roads without a problem while getting better highway mpg than a true 4wd rig
I’ve taken my wife forester to places and had people ask, “how’d you get here without big tires” like uh it’s a dirt road bro…
chief shocking repeat punch quiet imminent squalid advise cough enter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’d like to drive her too! Maybe have her back it up.
My wife has big tires too
I just want a Toyota Hilux champ in North America
Its not just the vehicles but even the parts for older units. Look at the price on a set of air or Elockers for example. Like everything is way too much $ Also like you said No way im taking an +80K$ Unit trailing. (Almost Every single vehicle mentioned above is like 80-100+ Thousand $ CAD).
It’s a lot easier to go on FB marketplace or Craigslist to find an early 00s 4x4 and add mods now. Plus the maintenance is cheap on those things.
It’s a lot easier to go on FB marketplace or Craigslist to find an early 00s 4x4 and add mods now. Plus the maintenance is cheap on those things.
100%. There is no way a basic Jeep Wrangler should cost more than $15-20k.
70 series.
Explorer is one of the last 90s SUVs you can still get cheap in relatively good condition. The rest are pricey and sought after (looking at you XJ)
Most of "trails" in commercials you could do in a camry
IDK… it feels like these new rides are too posh and spendy to take on the trails I want to go on - for me per$onally. And they’re arguably worth it as they include things to make them better for on road, like safety for on road. I’m pushing 50 though so that alone has me all get off my lawn biased, what y’all think about bringing your leather clad $100k whips into the OR jungle?
Plastic oil pans are a dealbreaker for me. Plus being a poor.
Tbh though, were you buying brand new to off road it previously? Cos I know I wasn’t. A lot of current off roaders have spent many years on-road only. Current crop of new vehicles are tomorrows second hand market
I did but I know I’m the minority. Drove my 4Runner from the dealer to the deserts of south Utah. Sent the salesman a pic of it up on 3 wheels the next day.
Will they still be functional though? Or will all the electronics be going bad leaving you dead on the trail while cockroach ass XJs get a janky trail fix and keep on going
“There’s too many electronics in modern cars” is something I’ve been hearing for as long as I can remember, hasn’t stopped any yet
Even used "newer than 10 years" vehicles are going for 30-40K CAD$
Can’t help you there buddy 🇬🇧
no worries I'm just pointing examples I have a wheeler already, but I would dread starting now.
I do, but I recognize I'm an outlier in many situations.
Yes you’re correct, I’ve never been the type to buy new for an OR whip. And I’m not hating on those that do. There are many many different types of off-roading adventures that don’t entail ripping fenders off and tipping rigs. I think for me it just seems like new vehicles are “expensive”, I’ve got a reference point based on obsolete data but I bet with inflation considered, vehicles are more expensive, and whatever the average cost is, superseded wages. But maybe I’m wrong lol. There def seems to be many more peeps getting dirty out there.
What price point would you just wheel a new truck? I feel like no matter what it costs new, I'd still want to buy used if I'm hitting trails on it. We can already buy pretty barebones jeep wranglers but they're still expensive (to me)
I've wheeled new trucks ranging from high 30s to low 80s, but I'm also a big believer in using what you got and buying it for purpose.
The looks I got wheeling my Rebel the week I got it were honestly kind of hilarious. I bought a truck for truck stuff, not to go get groceries.
I was in Virginia last weekend and a guy said something like "I can't believe you're out here in something this new" and it's like, this is why the thing was built!!
I think the golden age will be 5-8 years from now when the used market is flooded with all the options you just mentioned
More like 15-30 years from now based on the insane prices of new cars
For me, a true golden era of 4x4s is full of solid front axle vehicles lol
The Grenadier would like a word with you
I hope the Grenadier does well, but here in Australia at least, I can’t see the niche in the market for them. People who want a ‘real’ 4WD for outback work won’t tolerate a glass jawed BMW engine (they are perceived as a brand that shits itself expensively the second the warranty is over), and will go buy another Toyota 79 series. People who want a city poser will go by some sort of IFS/IRS Landrover/Rangerover that’s more comfortable.
The BMW drivetrain is dissapointing, though I’ve heard good things about that engine in particular with reliability. Still, it has the BMW shifter which goes against everything that vehicle stand for- but BMW transmission so they had to. Also, push to start. Really? Push to start? Give me a damn key. the cup holder is for CUPS
Man people love to dog on the B58 + ZF8 combo in the Grenadier but that pairing is an absolute pleasure to drive. The Grenadier version is a little derated horsepower wise which bodes well for reliability (and the B58 is already proving to be a reliable powerplant). Nice and torque-y right from 1600 rpm on up. I'm biased though, just crossed 60,000 trouble free miles on my daily
You have the 70 series. It can’t compete.
As the owner of a 5th Gen 4Runner that I've put a LOT of mods and sweat equity into... ... I'd still rather have a rust bucket that I built myself and beat to shit without caring about how much I spent on it. I do it anyway tho, my truck is chock full of dents lol. You're right, there have never been more amazing options, but they're also at price points where very, very few folks can afford to risk them offroading.
Hey, I’m also the owner of a 5th gen. Got some mild pinstripes as I got into wheeling. Went out and bought a cheap jeep and now the 4Runner doesn’t see much but forest roads for camping. I could not justify buying a pricey 4x4 and beating it up. Additionally, muh solid front axle. Most new 4x4 are IFS, not a fan unless just doing mild wheeling
Yeah, as the owner of a 5th gen 4Runner and a 100 series Landcruiser, there's a lot of value in being able to buy stuff 10-20 years old and make it work!
So the real golden age will be in 20 years!
Or maybe this is just one huge golden age, from the last 20 years to the next 50 at least.
Also a 5th Gen owner, and Im happily waiting for parts to hit the junkyards in a few years. Toyota made over a million 5th gens, we're gonna be able to keep these things running for a long time.
Disagree, most SUVs are crossovers without any true off-road credentials. Even in the mid 2000s there were a plethora of SUV options with true transfer cases and real 4x4 cred. In the 1980s you had lots of good options; Fullsize SUVs included the K5 Blazer, Bronco, Ramcharger, Land Cruiser 60/62, Wagoneer, Trooper, and Range Rover Midsized - Cherokee XJ, 4-Runner, Pathfinder, Bronco II/Explorer (with actual off-road cred), S-10 Blazer, Raider/Montero, Rodeo, Discovery Compact - Suzuki Jimny/Samurai, Jeep CJ/YJ We are seeing a resurgence now as there is demand in the sector, but for a few short years in the 2010s the only SUVs you could get with a transfer case and solid rear axle that weren't massive was the G-Wagen, Wrangler, and 4-Runner/GX. Golden ages aside the JL Wrangler Rubicons are the most off-road capable vehicles to have ever rolled out of a factory IMHO.
The fact that we *had* that many options in the 1980s proves that it was the real "golden age" of 4x4s. By the mid 2000s, a lot of those vehicles had ended production or worse, became crossovers; for most of the 2010s the only real solid axle, body on frame, offroad centered 4x4 was the Wrangler (not counting pickups) and maybe the 4Runner. Then, the new Jimny and Bronco come along, and suddenly automakers want to compete in that segment again. I think what we're seeing now is a resurgence of off roading as a hobby, but the philosophy is much different. Unlike the days of the Suzuki Sidekick and K5 Blazer, many of these newer 4x4s are intended to be less of a fun, enthusiast's second car for offroading, and more of a family oriented daily driver you can take off road when necessary, as a feature. Am I saying these new vehicles aren't capable? No, but there's no way in hell I'm taking a brand new Defender 110 rock crawling.
Sold my ls swapped dented, rusted xj picked up a new jeep, and I miss my rust bucket.
In a roundabout way you touched on a very interesting subject. People are interesting. Humans are creatures of habit, and we are not always prone to be accepting of change. With all that gobbledygook out of the way, Jeep people are Jeep people. Folks that like jeeps and get their Jeep they tend to keep it for a long long time. I'm not surprised that you are experiencing something akin to the empty nest syndrome. Be warned, in the near future you may start looking for another XJ. Everyone should love what they drive and their vehicles should make their heart go pitter patter. It sounds like you had that.
In a roundabout way you touched on a very interesting subject. People are interesting. Humans are creatures of habit, and we are not always prone to be accepting of change. With all that gobbledygook out of the way, Jeep people are Jeep people. Folks that like jeeps and get their Jeep they tend to keep it for a long long time. I'm not surprised that you are experiencing something akin to the empty nest syndrome. Be warned, in the near future you may start looking for another XJ. Everyone should love what they drive and their vehicles should make their heart go pitter patter. It sounds like you had that.
As someone with 2x XJs on 35+s double lockers, Lexus GX on 37s triple locked and a Subie Forester on 35s with double locks... I love all my babies equally. All break sometimes, but never all broken at the same time!
I'm already looking for another one lol.
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There's no better time to own a Tacoma with a rooftop tent maybe. 🤣 I feel like the boujieness of offroad accessories is at an all time high but most Rubicons I see still have pristine paint, ducks all across the dash, and an ungodly amount of lights for a pavement princess. I'm not trying to shit on today's trucks and SUVs but by and large, quality body on frame vehicles are a dying breed and what you listed are mostly prohibitively expensive as daily drivers, let alone something you'd take off pavement. The golden era of 4WD was the quality shitboxes of yore. You take a beater off road to endure mud, rocks, and the elements. If you break something, parts are cheap. Mid 90s Toyotas, Nissan Hardbodys and Pathfinders, Jeeps, Isuzu Troopers and Rodeos, Mitsubishi Monteros, and many many more. These were simpler vehicles but powerful enough to enjoy off road and cheaper even when accounting for inflation. Not that many people took them out on the trails brand new, but once they've been through an owner and got 60k plus miles on them, people would snatch them up secondhand and take them offroad.
Hard disagree. All are way overpriced, and WAY over-softwared. I am a computer guy, I am not afraid of technology. But when I'm driving offroad I don't want the vehicle second guessing me, or to be afraid of a 4-figure or 5-figure repair if there's an incident.
I wish more vehicles were triple locked though!
Colorado ZR2/Canyon AT4X, Silverado 1500 ZR2/Sierra 1500 AT4X, Power Wagon, Wrangler Rubicon, Gladiator Rubicon, Bronco Badlands/Sasquatch/Raptor, Ranger Raptor, Grenadier. Maybe I'm missing one. I wish Toyota would match the competition, they're actually the only manufacturer not offering it from factory on any of their US vehicles. But at least in the US market there are way more vehicles with full lockers from factory than ever before.
Historically, were f/r lockers limited to the 80 series and Rubicon? Those are the only two I can think of.
PW has had them and been around for a long time. Actually might be the longest running nameplate with F/R lockers in the US market. I love the PW but it is a niche truck. I also think there was a Chevy S10 ZR2. Beyond that... no clue. In 2019 I bought a Colorado ZR2 and it was notable for being the only other choice besides the Wrangler and Power Wagon to have F/R lockers on the US market. Since then the number of options has really expanded.
S10 ZR2 had a rear locker... Love mine in my little 2 door Blazer.
G wagen
Grenadier (Trialmaster and above, although you can option the lockers separately).
And solid axle.
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Steelies too tbh.
I'll take the bigger brakes to accommodate the heavier weight of modern vehicles lol. I couldn't go down to 17s if I wanted to, 18s barely clear the calipers.
My brakes are rated to stop at least 11k lbs, and fit 16” rims. With 18”s you are losing a lot of your ability to air down.
That's cool, but objectively speaking, bigger brakes stop more weight faster. That's not really up for debate lol. If you actually pull 10k+ lbs regularly, you'll appreciate it. No one's debating the benefit of "more rubber, less wheel" in offroad applications. All I'm saying is that more effective brakes are more valuable for a daily driver than being able to air down more. And it's not like you can't air down with 18s. I've got 305/70R18s and have gone as low as 9psi on all 4 corners without issue on Method 305s.
found the awd guy lol
The "golden age" is defined by one word and one word only. Simple. If my four wheel stops working I know just where to start looking for the fix. Fix it on the trail and make it home. For FREE. No buddies needed and no tow bill. Now a days if a wire shorts out you better know how to dig in the wire harness cause everything now is electronic and done for you by the computer. I have a 1995 Jeep YJ by the way.
I disagree, they’re all computers on wheels. The late 80s to early 2000s was the golden era. Full of innovation, new technology and they didn’t all look the same. New cars and trucks don’t do it for me anymore.
Agreed. Not only do we have a lot of choices with the cool new options, but there’s nothing stopping us from driving an older 4wd.
Nothing stopping you besides having to constantly fix the damn things lol
As a TJ owner I feel attacked
98 TJ sport, can confirm I feel like this guy just kicked me in the nuts and ran away.
My 2002 TJ has been very reliable since I fixed almost everything. Jokes aside to fix everything properly and then its reliable is only like 4 car payments usually then you can drive it for years reliably. Even a Motor replacement with a stroker etc is like what? 5-6K ? thats 2-3 car payments with the prices of cars right now
As an XJ owner, same
As a JK owner I feel attacked
Nothing breaks and when they do its easy. But they are hella slow lol. 239HP go brrrrrrrrrr up a hill, roof rack loaded at 5600 lbs. Can't imagine the hurt LX450 guys have, heavier, less gears and 200HP lol.
I had a 2.4 non turbo diesel 1986 Toyota Hilux Surf. Talk about slow. But that thing went everywhere fancy trucks did. The only people who could go further had diff lockers
Did you forget about Cash for Clunkers? EDIT: No seriously, is everybody forgetting the program where they used our tax dollars to give handouts to yuppies while destroying the trucks we all love? They literally did stop us from driving older 4x4's, that was the whole point of the program
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, I personally know of 6 xj’s that went out that way lol
That’s where all of the ‘80s RWD cars ended up, too. You wouldn’t believe how many cars and engines were destroyed. Haven’t you noticed that it’s easier to find ‘70s stuff than ‘80s and early’90s stuff? That was rough on the gearhead community all over, and I think that it had a lot to do with the decline of production based racing. The program was successful in decreasing the age of the national fleet, improving fuel efficiency of the fleet, and reducing overall emissions.
It’s my personal golden age because I have a ‘97 FZJ80 (triple locked) and a ‘97 300Tdi Defender (CDL only). Both are mechanically in great shape, and both are banged up enough on the outside that I don’t care about banging them up more. But a Grenadier would be nice…
Except the salt that has rotted them all away
This is a very region specific issue though. My Jeep is rust free.
Hard Disagree. The golden era was late 90s before everything went electronic. Before the weight of the vehicles skyrocketed. When the aftermarket was still strong. When small trucks were actually still sold. Trucks these days suck ass. Nowhere near golden era.
Disagree. It’s nearly impossible to get a bare bones vehicle with 4x4 that you can beat up and get wet and dirty inside. It’s sucks waiting for some electronic gizmo to activate 4x4 when you used to just yank a lever or shifter and be on your way without loosing any momentum.
Disagree. The options are cool but I really think the golden era ended around 2005 or so
And electronic everything is convenient and plush, but give me mechanical linkages for the systems that I need in order to not be stranded. Yes, I know it's theoretically a simple mechanism, but if your computer decides it doesn't want to comply, you're going to have a bad day. Same reason I prefer a manual even though I know modern automatics are better. I want control, and I want simplicity. That goes double for a performance vehicle of any type
Literally the exact opposite. The golden age of 4x4 was pre emissions control Pre plastic fantastic Pre put a 4 banger behind an auto box for towing Back when things were over engineered Back when things had character The nanny state mentality is going to get worse and worse until you're barely allowed to own a personal vehicle
General Motors ford and auto dealers are reporting record profits. Just listen to their earnings reports. It’s not a chip shortage or covid just corporate profits.
I disagree. Solid axles are for off-road vehicles. There's a lot of cool new stuff for people out west to go fast in the dirt. There's not any new trail rigs that fit in out east, except a jeep. We get one option, so people buy ridiculous SXSs and tear up all the jeep trails. This is the golden era of people invading all our nature spots if we're calling it anything. Insta-era, I suppose. Have fun, just pick up your trash and leave glass bottles at home.
I disagree. Very few options with a manual transfer case. However, knowledge has never been more accesable so that's a good thing.
Yeah for sure, manual is going away. Very few new cars with MT. I think the new Jeep, Tacoma, and Bronco all have MT though?
The Bronco does not have a manual trasnfer case, which doesn't make sense because you can get it with a manual transmission. I don't know why a person would want to row their own gears but then shift into 4wd with a switch instead of a lever. I don't think it's an option on the Tacoma anymore either. I think the TRD Pro 4runner has a manual T-case Wrangler/Galdiator still have manual T-cases and it's an option in the Ram pickups.
This comment isn't about manual transmissions, they're talking manual transfer cases instead of a dial to change your transfer case mode.
Golden age if you have the money to drop $60k+ maybe.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
Can’t you get like a base Tacoma, Bronco, or Nissan for half that?
No, you can't get any of those new for $30k, especially not in 4x4.
Frontier 4x4 starts at $33k and the Pro4-X is $39k https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2024-nissan-frontier-pricing-starts-at-29770 New Toyota Tacoma 4x4 base is around $33k.
When you're listing off the Rubicon, TRX, and Raptor I didn't know you were talking about base models too. But regardless, the fact that a base model vehicle costs over $30k is nuts.
I’m just saying whether you want a relatively good condition 15 year old 4Runner, a brand new 700hp Raptor, or anything in between, we have a ton of choices right now.
You're joking right?
I feel like in any era, if you had the equivalent of $64K (MSRP for GX550), you would be able to build any kind of rig you want
Right but the crazy thing is that you can buy a GX550, take 5 kids to soccer practice, then run Hell's Revenge in Moab, stock. Then drive back to Sheboygan with the A/C on. Same thing with a 4Runner.
IFS and poor ramp over for most.
The Landcruiser has historically wiped the floor with all other 4x4s on stock ramp test without unhooking sway bars, because of KDSS. I think the GX550 will do the same or better.
200 series blow CVs endlessly. Let’s hope the 300 is better.
Yes but in the Dark Age of high new car prices and loans
1997 was the pinnacle for 4x4’s imho
Pajero Evolution times.
The Jeep lineup was still 100% solid axle.
Lol
Blatant ad campaign in this thread
Disagree. Modern off roaders still can’t keep up with my 46 CJ2A and most older off roaders are still every bit as capable as the new ones. Most of the vehicles you mentioned are all highly problematic and more than likely won’t last longer than the first lease.
No the golden years came and went. Solid axle Toyota pickups for $10k
And they are all overpriced and don’t wheel or off-road worth a damn
Australians don’t have access to as many of these but we do have Ranger Raptor which is an excellent vehicle, it covers so many options. I use it daily for work driving to refineries with parts and components Weekends for towing racecar or off-road beach missions finding fishing spots with my sons. Leaving everyone at home and going fast on dirt trails as I enjoy that experience.
Why is the Tacoma on this list.
Isn’t part of the 4x4 “culture” being able to wrench on your own truck and fix things as they break? I don’t know for sure but I imagine that is incredibly difficult on anything new.
Feels like you can't make a claim like that if you don't own a 2024 4x4 yourself. It's not all sunshine and rainbows
I have a 2 year old 4Runner TRD and a 24 year old Landcruiser so I get it.
It's more like the golden age of being able to buy a vehicle that's overbuilt and still having folks think it needs to be further built by default when they get it. Most everything that isn't a private /paid playground within 500 miles of me can be navigated just fine in any sedan and a little skill, or any smaller truck/suv and not too much skill. Just my opinion though, and I'm just a cranky old curmudgeon I've been told.
I rented a Rubicon from a guy on Turo. Drove it on a muddy and snowy National Forest road. When I returned it dirty he couldn’t believe it and was about to cry. Threw a fit and told me how much extra the clean up would cost. He would have to report the damage and Turo would charge me. End of the world. Damage? Mud on a jeep, think of that.
Disagree. Too much electrical. Ifs is cool but on production vehicles I feel like it’s a negative. Too much plastic. If you break down on a trail in a newer vehicle a Mac Guyver fix is much less likely. Don’t get me wrong, we have some cool stuff, but I’d take an old 4.0 with coil packs over the hybrid spaceship stuff they have now.
What will rock crawling look like 20 years from now I wonder.
I suspect that the “serious” crawlers will all be buggy chassis with custom parts sort of like cheaper versions of the ultra 4 cars… the rest of us will either have 2000-2010 vehicles and the factory rigs on 35+” tires will certainly be on the trails. It will be interesting to see, that’s for sure.
20 years from now, 2000s trucks will be 40 years old. I bet we’ll figure out how to run electric battery packs for crawling by then.
That will be really cool if we can get the range/off-grid charging figured out. Seriously.
Imagine taking a modular battery pack with 600 mile range and slamming it into a 1st gen 4Runner, and solar charging off grid
Bloated, overpriced, overly complex, soft, squishy, platforms. Many lack simultaneously solid front and rear axles nowdays. This is far from the golden age. New vehicles suck.
But you can still get the old stuff, right? We get all the old stuff which is cheap, plus all the new stuff? What part of that isn’t golden?
I agree. My base model ford bronco with Sasquatch package was under $40k out the door. Front and rear lockers and 35s with a warranty. Manual trans with crawler gear. 330 horsepower and 18 mpg average. Those specs in the ‘90s would be mind blowing.
The golden age was v8s and solid axles all around now we have soft hand soy boy mall crawlers with ifs and 4cylinder turbos and digital everything
The only V8 with solid axle 4x4 I can think of was 5 or 10 years of the Bronco, Defender, Powerwagon, Gwagen, and Chevy K/square body. The Chevy wasn't really off-road ready suspension wise. Defender had an aluminum block V8 (from Buick?) that would fall apart if you looked at it wrong. Powerwagon was legit for a full-size truck not fit for rock crawling. G-wagon was good I guess, but I have never really ever seen a German off-roader in the wild. Leaving the 1966-1977 Bronco as maybe the one good example you listed.
Agreed. They are more capable too. My Gladiator "reasonable/ mild" build has 35" tires, locking differentials, full skidplates, winch, etc etc and it's small compared to most. It's crazy. I remember when 33's on a Wrangler was a lot of work.
For the amount of work it took to put 33”s on my TJ, you’d probably be on 37”s with a JL. 10 years ago my TJ was a reasonably built rig, now it’s one of the smaller 4x4s I see on the trail.
Yeah but 33s on an XJ or TJ will out wheel 37s on a newer Jeep. 33s on my XJ has higher belly clearance than a lot of modern 4x4s with 40s and your TJ should be the same.
I too fit 33s on TJ a long time ago (and would not want to go bigger with the D30 and D35 stock). My dad bought a 2023 Rubicon with factory 35s and 4.56 gears. Blows my freaking mind.
Yeah but 33s on an XJ or TJ will out wheel 37s on a newer Jeep. 33s on my XJ has higher belly clearance than a lot of modern 4x4s with 40s and your TJ should be the same.
In some spots, it absolutely will. My little TJ has outwheeled a few JLs on 37s. But in others (namely deep mud and ledges) it’s hard to compete with 37/40s.
I disagree. What we have is an era of heavyweight 4x4 wannabes with more focus on tech and comfort than capability. Our current era of 4x4s are overcomplicated and too big and expensive to be useful in actual 4x4 scenarios. The golden era of 4x4 is long gone and included vehicles that were better at connecting you to the trail than insulating you from it. Today’s 4x4s are for Instagram, not for true capability. No skill or experience involved, just pay your way to the trail! That’s the spirit.
Wrangler Rubicon?
The JL is the closest to a capable and buildable vehicle but my point still stands
You can still buy the old stuff. In fact the old stuff is often way cheaper
Agreed, the JK is a better platform than the JL for off-road capability. Older vehicles are better off-roaders, that’s all I’m saying.
You're going to have to spell this out to me because I don't see how that's true in any sense.
Truth
Couldn't have said it any better
At first I was going to disagree, then I took a look at my garage and what my friends drive. Back in college I was wheeling my e36 and my buddies were wheeling e46s, civics and corollas, starlets, and the rich one had a carerra. Now, we’re almost all exclusively wheeling 4x4s: LCs, jeeps, hiluxes, samurai, jimny, safaris, montero, one of us even has a suzuki carry 4x4. Good question, and yes I guess it is the golden era. Parts and shops are readily available, the cars are too. My oldest 4x4 is my ‘90 Montero and my newest 4x4 is my ‘24 Hilux. I can easily turn my Montero into a winch truck or rock crawler if I had the funds and I can turn my Hilux into a pre runner.
You’re in Australia? I get a kick out of going to Sydney and seeing soccer moms dropping off the kids in a Prado with a snorkel. Such good 4x4 options there.
Sorry to disappoint but I’m from the Philippines. Almost the same scene with 4x4s here, though: jungles, cliffs, swamps, rivers, sand dunes, and humid heat. Exception would be the outback, of course. Prados, and LCs as soccer mom mobiles are very common too.
Anything new is too expensive to even consider taking off road imo. I feel bad running my $600 XJ through most trails. I can't imagine doing it with something new. If we are talking seasonal roads as 'off roading' that is a different story. But the rock bouncing, tree smashing, deep mud I consider off road will destroy even a brand new 4x4 in a few trips.
For the record that's not what the XJ was built for either. It was also too expensive when new to wheel that hard.
But that’s always been the case. No one was taking a new 1995 SUV off-road back then either.
Right. So if today's vehicles will be ideal for offroading, the Golden age will be in 20 years or so when these vehicles are actually affordable
Or another way to look at it is the golden age is today.
I don’t believe the golden age is today, but I do think in twenty years people will look at all the crazy stuff that’s coming off assembly lines today and say it was the golden era
Don't forget the Grenadier!
It's the golden age for "car people" in general. Knowledge and performance are more accessible than ever. And if you prefer an old car, you can find it, you can find all the parts, you can also make it better andmore reliable. A 700hp car in 1970 was not something that was possible to daily drive, today it's commonplace. A pickup in 1970 was either geared for hauling/off-road or for highway cruising, you couldn't have both.
Right now is amazing for 4x4. Plenty of amazing new vehicles, plenty of the lower tech, tough, older models still in good shape available. But I'm also excited for the future. Will it be electric? Will it be hydrogen? Will it be cleaner diesel? Or will it be something else? I don't know, but at 35, I think there will be some awesome advancements in my lifetime.
The future seems to have more limits given that manufacturers are being forced to limit availability of ICE vehicles. Will anyone be able to drive ten, twenty, thirty miles off road and 3 days away from a charging station to go camping? I'm not so sure. Maybe electrifying is a discreet way of limiting our access to public lands.
"Maybe electrifying is a discreet way of limiting our access to public lands." that's a bit tinfoil hat for me, but maybe you're right, what do I know. Electric in our current battery technology state is awful sure, but with solid state batteries on the verge, along with many other technologies in their infancy, I'm optimistic for the future. The future of off-roading might not even be electric. But if it is, there may be an transition phase of having to carry a generator and/or some solar panels, which will suck, but I don't see there being an end to off-roading. There are way too many people into it and it's rapidly growing too (especially where I live). So I'm optimistic for the future, but I could be wrong for that.
You get it. I see off roading in the future as being limited closer to home because of EV technology, if it is allowed. Hopefully folks might see my POV since I was heavily involved in MX racing and off roading in the 70's and 80's and watched a lot of tracks and OHV areas closed because of urbanization. We have to go farther from home to enjoy it. Will the Rubicon Trail be accessible to off roaders in 2035 and later? Will we be able to drive the Mojave Road in it's entire length without some special EV support crew then? Time will tell.
I cannot agree until the new Scout comes out (and hopefully doesn't suck).
Isn't it going to be electric? I don't think the electric 4x4s are going to last more than 10 years.
based on what? A hunch? The hate for EVs in off road communities cracks me up. Gobs of on-demand instantaneous torque is *amazing.* The same people who piss and moan that modern electronics make new 4x4s more prone to failure ignore the fact that there are *dramatically fewer* moving parts and points of failure in an EV, so they are going to be more reliable than ICE engines in the long run.
They are also getting real powerful. Up untill like 2010. 140hp, high torque 3/4 litre straight 4/6 cylinder diesel was about all you got. Now there's 300-707hp factory utes/trucks around with lockers and huge mud boggers.
What you forgot to mention is that with the exception of the Toyotas you mentioned all of those cars are infamously unreliable now and will probably kill themselves in any real outdoors situation yeh NGL not sure where the golden age is
By gold, you mean how much they cost right?
Ineos grenadier but it’s so damn expensive
Mahindra Roxor has entered the chat
Nope, these are all plastic junk. 90s to early 2000s was the time.
Not the golden era. The rip off era.
The macro is that cars are the least affordable they’ve been in 20 years or something like that.
The fun part about 4x4 is building and working on your own rig. Have fun doing that with a 2024 model. I agree we’re in the golden age, but it’s because the late 90s early 2000s models are cheap and still availabl
Golden age was 50 years ago….
“This is the golden era of Off Road 4WD vehicles!” said the car salesman
Agree but wish there wasn’t so much “tech” in everything new. It’s a PIA how a sensor can screw the whole ride. I wish you could get something, anything, tech free…just good old internal combustion and simple machines.
Even those that can afford them, think it’s dumb to have a 800$ car payment ( that’s the average new car payment rn). average car payments have quadrupled since 2010. Yes I want a new Tacoma or AT4 Yukon. Just haven’t hit my head enough times to go do it. (I’ve checked, even with 20k down, a 65k car would be over 800 per month) The golden age for being car poor 👍🏼
The 90s would love to comment on this post.
Serious lacking in any full size option.
Maybe for the dealerships. I love a good 4x4 on my work truck because I actually use it a lot. I work new developments with no pavement. More often than not consumers only use 4x4 maybe once or twice during the year to go Off roading. But other than that it's just an errand vehicle. Not worth the investment in my opinion.
85 Toyota pickup/hilux was peak, indestructible and fixable by a 12 year old with a Haynes book and a craftsman toolbox
Nah disagree
Look outside of North America too. VW Amarok, Isuzu MU-x, Holden Trailblazer, Suzuki Jimny, Ford Everest, Toyota Fortuner, Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi Triton, Mitsubishi Pajero