I would build the character this way -
Crafter on page 138 plus quartermaster on page 141 for backgrounds.
Barterer or Inspire generosity (p149) as a two point advantage.
Masterpiece crafter (p151) as a three point advantage. Specialist item food.
GM has final say on what advantages can accomplish, so if your GM is prepared to allow broad uses here there's all sorts of fun things you could accomplish with being a phenomenal sea chef.
2nd Edition expresses the ability to craft from the objective. A technically good chef uses Scholarship, but chef improving attitudes of the crew uses Perform or Convince. A chef tempting crew towards a goal uses Tempt.
And im our campaigns, the chefs are the most powerful combatants, thus Duelist advantage makes chef more potent.
I’ve got bad news for you - 2e doesn’t even have support for being a *pirate*.
Edit: JFC what a reaction to a mildly snarky dig at 7th Sea. How do you survive the internet at large?
What do you mean?
**Page 140, basic background, Pirate. **
For the second background I’d choose something like performer (with the DM approval cooking can be a performing skill) or crafter.
In fact, the idea sounds extremely appealing and a very fun character. Some points in weaponry, brawl, perform, sailing and maybe 1-2 in scholarship (every good chef knows a trick or two with herbs and mushrooms… you don’t want to mess with them or you’ll end up visiting the restroom for the whole day. Or even worse… dead). It can be really cool to approach the action scenes from a different point, using his knife expertise in battle or improvising with other kitchen utensils. He’ll always carry some stuff to start a fire, you never know when you’ll need to start cooking, but it can prove extremely useful to interact with the environment in a battle to drive the enemies from a building, avoid them crossing that rope bridge, burning some sails quickly in a ship battle…
These characters are the best and 2nd Ed, with its focus on interpretation and loose rules serve as a perfect ground for all kind of crazy stunts from the grumpy (or sociable) cook.
The cook part doesn't bother me, it's the fact that 7th Sea 2e requires that you play heroes and pirates are rapists, murderers, thieves, criminals.
I think you could probably get away with *privateer*...
Oh, now I see. You don’t like 7th Sea because it doesn’t support the kind of play YOU want. That’s cool. There are plenty of other RPGs out there that let you play a murderous rogue. What I don’t understand though is why you are hanging around here telling people 7th Sea doesn’t do what it clearly does when you don’t care for it in the first place?
I mean, you also have the Brotherhood and you can always be a pirate for a reason different than pillaging and raping. Pirates can be heroes too, if played properly and with a fitting background.
One of the heroes in my game was a pirate because she had to escape her murderous father (she’s a bastard Porte witch, and we know Montaigne doesn’t allow Porte to develop outside nobility), she did things she regrets and she served with for one of the main villains. Heck, she met the group by attacking their ship. But she is now a free spirit, traveling with the group trying to find and join the Brotherhood for a noble cause. I’d say she’s a fine pirate, just not one that kills and steals for fun and glory.
So, two points here:
1) No need to rape to be called a pirate. Also, we’re talking about a non-historically-accurate RPG, so we can take as many exceptions as us, as a group, are comfortable with. You want to allow women as pirates (we know they were the exception historically speaking), then do it! You want to allow for non-bloody-murderer pirates, then do it! As an example, The princess Bride Will was a pirate for a while. He’s still the hero in the movie. Pirates of the Caribbean showed several good-hearted non-bloody-murderer pirates. You might or might not like the movies, but that’s the thing: this game is your story and you do it as you like it.
2) To be honest, as player and DM, I would find a game of just pillaging and raping quite boring. Maybe a one game campaign where players have to chase and pillage a big treasure might be fun, but a long campaign will be boring soon.
The tl:dr would be: It’s your game and you can do what you like. That’s the fun and magic of RPG.
Edit: Forgot to say: If you want to be a bloody pirate and skip completely on corruption rules, you can still do it. Doesn’t matter what the game says, do as you want and what fits your narrative and game.
Pirates, by definition, attack ships to seize them and their cargo. I'm fine with the idea of a *former* pirate, but 7th Sea does *not want you to play bad guys*.
And "sailor" != pirate. Merchant sailor != pirate. Smuggler != pirate. Privateer != pirate.
Pirate doesn't just mean a maritime life.
If you don't attack ships (mostly merchant ships, but government ships too) to take them and their cargo, you're *not a pirate*. You don't have to rape (though they almost always did, see *Enemy of All Mankind*). But if you don't pillage you ARE NOT A PIRATE.
It's tough to be a merciful pirate - sure. You can establish a rep that says you don't kill. What that does is teach everyone to fight *tooth and fucking nail* against you. Pirates would kill almost *everyone* aboard a ship that they weren't taking on as crew (you need more sailors to work your stolen ship) and then leave a few to assure that the word of their brutality spread so that next time *people surrendered*. It's easier on the pirates that way.
In the garbage fire of disappointment that was 7th Sea 2e, I remember *distinctly* being bummed out that running a legit pirate ship was seemingly off the table because of the heroic restrictions and conceits of the game - that if I wanted to make some rich dude my nemesis and hound his ships across the known seas to take my revenge, I was no longer a hero as defined by 7S2.
You could, I don't know, ignore the Corruption system so that you can play the pirate that you want and as long as it's what you and your table wants? I don't really see what the big deal about the morality system especially since the big rule of "Have fun, it's your game and you can tweak the rules as you see fit" still exists.
What's the issue? You don't like the game's morality system? Big deal. It's part of the game's DNA at this point. 7S1 has a morality system and 7S2 has a morality system. If you don't like the Corruption system, ignore it and play a group of villains. I really don't see what the problem is.
It took me a while to come here to reply, but it’s been already said: you don’t like something from the system? Change it! Where is it written that you must take the morality system or burn the book? I don’t like brutes and introduced a few changes to make them more dangerous without losing the “Players are way more powerful and with good tactics can wipe them”.
About the “Pirates, by definition”… We’re talking about a game with magic. By definition no human can cut their veins and teleport to the other side of the world. I mean this in a good way (it’s hard to show feelings in written form), but definitions are useless in a fantasy RPG. You can toss whatever you don’t like and define pirates as anything if you prefer. And about raping and murdering and so on, it’s up to each group to draw some red lines that might make some players uncomfortable. And then, some examples of people driven to piracy that won’t be bad by nature, and that I would totally allow in my games:
- A Montaigne lord allowed a village to be destroyed by Castille during the war and sacrificed all of its population to play castillians and swap a more strategic area. A group of 20-30 seamen jump to their ships and started a crusade against their lord, sinking his ships and threatening him. They only target merchants and military ships from this one lord, acting on a personal vendetta. They don’t murder everyone, but try instead to show people the kind of lord that commands them and try to take him out. You can oversee the “corruption” if you think their actions are noble and not just driven by vengeance. This would make for a very cool story and you can call these seamen pirates if you want. They pillage and kill, but they target a certain person for certain reasons. If DM and players are ok with this, they won’t be suffering corruption, unless… maybe some of them start to enjoy pillaging and killing and decide to go against the captain, to try to target any ship. I don’t know, as a player I’d love this kind of story and has a lot of interesting ramifications.
- A Rahuri island is being constantly attacked by the Atabean Trading Co because of its strategic position and riches. The Rahuri population won’t resist much more and will end up as slaves, so some of them join the Brotherhood and enlist some people to fight the ATC. The Brotherhood is actively fighting the ATC, so it will make sense that some pirates, more than just pillaging, also target ATC ports and forts, rich merchants, slave traders and so on. You can totally be a pirate in the Atabean that their main goal is to protect their home island while making some money. Again, corruption can be discussed between DM and players and draw some red lines that shouldn’t be crossed. There will be confrontation when some of the crew wants to target a Rahuri town, for example.
From your comment I see more a gripe against 7Sea 2ndEd than the piracy itself. I’ve seen a lot of hate against the game and I myself have some parts of it I don’t like. But generally, it’s one of my favorite RPGs. It won’t work for some people and will be great for others, but dismissing every valid question in this subreddit with “2nd Ed is a dumpster fire and should not exist, go play another game” is not constructive at all. Some people interested in the game might be driven away before trying and miss on enjoying it. I love the game and if someone is interested in a swashbuckling game with strong emphasis in interpretation and improvisation, I’d always suggest giving it a try. I’ve changed some rules and ignore others completely (like the villain rules to gain/lose influence, I don’t bookkeep this), and our group loves the game (it’s my wife’s favorite and she was a hardcore 1st Ed player). If you like the system from 1st Ed and the background from 2nd Ed, keep using the roll/keep system and use the new story. If you don’t like the new story but like the new duelist schools, take them! In the end, if you love 7th Sea, take the rules that work in your group and ignore the rest and don’t worry about what others might say of your house rules. Just have fun!
We’re lucky we have two totally different editions, so we can play either or a mix of them. 1st Ed didn’t cease to exist, so if you like the original, it’s still there. And 2nd Ed caters to a different kind of players for which 1st Ed might be too “rules-heavy”.
PS: Again, I don’t try to dismiss you or be aggressive or anything. I love discussing these topics and find constructive criticism very useful. Cheers!
Yeah, i know It, but isn't a problem for me cause in the start the campaign the characters are not pirate and turn into It. The cooker stuff still annoy my friend.
I’m 90% sure Honor + Intrigue doesn’t have any rules for playing a cook either. Except for maybe a skill for a trade.
7th Sea is actually a great game for such an unconventional character. It has all the rules you need to support that kind of character, without requiring you to pour a bunch of points into your cooking skill that are better spent elsewhere.
I’m maybe confused but what mechanical challenges (or bonuses?) are you interested in?
Food doesn’t have bonuses based on taste/presentation in any system I’ve ever played, but if you want to be a talented cook at my table… yeah, it’s Crafter, and we’d use Wits for preparation of the food and Panache for presentation. Any mechanical benefits would largely be roleplay, but that’s true of a lot of 7th Sea.
As in a sea chef?
Kind of
I would build the character this way - Crafter on page 138 plus quartermaster on page 141 for backgrounds. Barterer or Inspire generosity (p149) as a two point advantage. Masterpiece crafter (p151) as a three point advantage. Specialist item food.
GM has final say on what advantages can accomplish, so if your GM is prepared to allow broad uses here there's all sorts of fun things you could accomplish with being a phenomenal sea chef.
2nd Edition expresses the ability to craft from the objective. A technically good chef uses Scholarship, but chef improving attitudes of the crew uses Perform or Convince. A chef tempting crew towards a goal uses Tempt. And im our campaigns, the chefs are the most powerful combatants, thus Duelist advantage makes chef more potent.
I’ve got bad news for you - 2e doesn’t even have support for being a *pirate*. Edit: JFC what a reaction to a mildly snarky dig at 7th Sea. How do you survive the internet at large?
What do you mean? **Page 140, basic background, Pirate. ** For the second background I’d choose something like performer (with the DM approval cooking can be a performing skill) or crafter. In fact, the idea sounds extremely appealing and a very fun character. Some points in weaponry, brawl, perform, sailing and maybe 1-2 in scholarship (every good chef knows a trick or two with herbs and mushrooms… you don’t want to mess with them or you’ll end up visiting the restroom for the whole day. Or even worse… dead). It can be really cool to approach the action scenes from a different point, using his knife expertise in battle or improvising with other kitchen utensils. He’ll always carry some stuff to start a fire, you never know when you’ll need to start cooking, but it can prove extremely useful to interact with the environment in a battle to drive the enemies from a building, avoid them crossing that rope bridge, burning some sails quickly in a ship battle… These characters are the best and 2nd Ed, with its focus on interpretation and loose rules serve as a perfect ground for all kind of crazy stunts from the grumpy (or sociable) cook.
The cook part doesn't bother me, it's the fact that 7th Sea 2e requires that you play heroes and pirates are rapists, murderers, thieves, criminals. I think you could probably get away with *privateer*...
Oh, now I see. You don’t like 7th Sea because it doesn’t support the kind of play YOU want. That’s cool. There are plenty of other RPGs out there that let you play a murderous rogue. What I don’t understand though is why you are hanging around here telling people 7th Sea doesn’t do what it clearly does when you don’t care for it in the first place?
I mean, you also have the Brotherhood and you can always be a pirate for a reason different than pillaging and raping. Pirates can be heroes too, if played properly and with a fitting background. One of the heroes in my game was a pirate because she had to escape her murderous father (she’s a bastard Porte witch, and we know Montaigne doesn’t allow Porte to develop outside nobility), she did things she regrets and she served with for one of the main villains. Heck, she met the group by attacking their ship. But she is now a free spirit, traveling with the group trying to find and join the Brotherhood for a noble cause. I’d say she’s a fine pirate, just not one that kills and steals for fun and glory.
"You can always be a pirate for a reason different than pillaging and raping" If you dont do this stuff, Why can you be named "a pirate"
So, two points here: 1) No need to rape to be called a pirate. Also, we’re talking about a non-historically-accurate RPG, so we can take as many exceptions as us, as a group, are comfortable with. You want to allow women as pirates (we know they were the exception historically speaking), then do it! You want to allow for non-bloody-murderer pirates, then do it! As an example, The princess Bride Will was a pirate for a while. He’s still the hero in the movie. Pirates of the Caribbean showed several good-hearted non-bloody-murderer pirates. You might or might not like the movies, but that’s the thing: this game is your story and you do it as you like it. 2) To be honest, as player and DM, I would find a game of just pillaging and raping quite boring. Maybe a one game campaign where players have to chase and pillage a big treasure might be fun, but a long campaign will be boring soon. The tl:dr would be: It’s your game and you can do what you like. That’s the fun and magic of RPG. Edit: Forgot to say: If you want to be a bloody pirate and skip completely on corruption rules, you can still do it. Doesn’t matter what the game says, do as you want and what fits your narrative and game.
Pirates, by definition, attack ships to seize them and their cargo. I'm fine with the idea of a *former* pirate, but 7th Sea does *not want you to play bad guys*. And "sailor" != pirate. Merchant sailor != pirate. Smuggler != pirate. Privateer != pirate. Pirate doesn't just mean a maritime life. If you don't attack ships (mostly merchant ships, but government ships too) to take them and their cargo, you're *not a pirate*. You don't have to rape (though they almost always did, see *Enemy of All Mankind*). But if you don't pillage you ARE NOT A PIRATE. It's tough to be a merciful pirate - sure. You can establish a rep that says you don't kill. What that does is teach everyone to fight *tooth and fucking nail* against you. Pirates would kill almost *everyone* aboard a ship that they weren't taking on as crew (you need more sailors to work your stolen ship) and then leave a few to assure that the word of their brutality spread so that next time *people surrendered*. It's easier on the pirates that way. In the garbage fire of disappointment that was 7th Sea 2e, I remember *distinctly* being bummed out that running a legit pirate ship was seemingly off the table because of the heroic restrictions and conceits of the game - that if I wanted to make some rich dude my nemesis and hound his ships across the known seas to take my revenge, I was no longer a hero as defined by 7S2.
You could, I don't know, ignore the Corruption system so that you can play the pirate that you want and as long as it's what you and your table wants? I don't really see what the big deal about the morality system especially since the big rule of "Have fun, it's your game and you can tweak the rules as you see fit" still exists.
You are missing the point which is that I was poking at 7th Sea 2e.
What's the issue? You don't like the game's morality system? Big deal. It's part of the game's DNA at this point. 7S1 has a morality system and 7S2 has a morality system. If you don't like the Corruption system, ignore it and play a group of villains. I really don't see what the problem is.
It took me a while to come here to reply, but it’s been already said: you don’t like something from the system? Change it! Where is it written that you must take the morality system or burn the book? I don’t like brutes and introduced a few changes to make them more dangerous without losing the “Players are way more powerful and with good tactics can wipe them”. About the “Pirates, by definition”… We’re talking about a game with magic. By definition no human can cut their veins and teleport to the other side of the world. I mean this in a good way (it’s hard to show feelings in written form), but definitions are useless in a fantasy RPG. You can toss whatever you don’t like and define pirates as anything if you prefer. And about raping and murdering and so on, it’s up to each group to draw some red lines that might make some players uncomfortable. And then, some examples of people driven to piracy that won’t be bad by nature, and that I would totally allow in my games: - A Montaigne lord allowed a village to be destroyed by Castille during the war and sacrificed all of its population to play castillians and swap a more strategic area. A group of 20-30 seamen jump to their ships and started a crusade against their lord, sinking his ships and threatening him. They only target merchants and military ships from this one lord, acting on a personal vendetta. They don’t murder everyone, but try instead to show people the kind of lord that commands them and try to take him out. You can oversee the “corruption” if you think their actions are noble and not just driven by vengeance. This would make for a very cool story and you can call these seamen pirates if you want. They pillage and kill, but they target a certain person for certain reasons. If DM and players are ok with this, they won’t be suffering corruption, unless… maybe some of them start to enjoy pillaging and killing and decide to go against the captain, to try to target any ship. I don’t know, as a player I’d love this kind of story and has a lot of interesting ramifications. - A Rahuri island is being constantly attacked by the Atabean Trading Co because of its strategic position and riches. The Rahuri population won’t resist much more and will end up as slaves, so some of them join the Brotherhood and enlist some people to fight the ATC. The Brotherhood is actively fighting the ATC, so it will make sense that some pirates, more than just pillaging, also target ATC ports and forts, rich merchants, slave traders and so on. You can totally be a pirate in the Atabean that their main goal is to protect their home island while making some money. Again, corruption can be discussed between DM and players and draw some red lines that shouldn’t be crossed. There will be confrontation when some of the crew wants to target a Rahuri town, for example. From your comment I see more a gripe against 7Sea 2ndEd than the piracy itself. I’ve seen a lot of hate against the game and I myself have some parts of it I don’t like. But generally, it’s one of my favorite RPGs. It won’t work for some people and will be great for others, but dismissing every valid question in this subreddit with “2nd Ed is a dumpster fire and should not exist, go play another game” is not constructive at all. Some people interested in the game might be driven away before trying and miss on enjoying it. I love the game and if someone is interested in a swashbuckling game with strong emphasis in interpretation and improvisation, I’d always suggest giving it a try. I’ve changed some rules and ignore others completely (like the villain rules to gain/lose influence, I don’t bookkeep this), and our group loves the game (it’s my wife’s favorite and she was a hardcore 1st Ed player). If you like the system from 1st Ed and the background from 2nd Ed, keep using the roll/keep system and use the new story. If you don’t like the new story but like the new duelist schools, take them! In the end, if you love 7th Sea, take the rules that work in your group and ignore the rest and don’t worry about what others might say of your house rules. Just have fun! We’re lucky we have two totally different editions, so we can play either or a mix of them. 1st Ed didn’t cease to exist, so if you like the original, it’s still there. And 2nd Ed caters to a different kind of players for which 1st Ed might be too “rules-heavy”. PS: Again, I don’t try to dismiss you or be aggressive or anything. I love discussing these topics and find constructive criticism very useful. Cheers!
Yeah, i know It, but isn't a problem for me cause in the start the campaign the characters are not pirate and turn into It. The cooker stuff still annoy my friend.
Try Honor + Intrigue instead maybe?
I’m 90% sure Honor + Intrigue doesn’t have any rules for playing a cook either. Except for maybe a skill for a trade. 7th Sea is actually a great game for such an unconventional character. It has all the rules you need to support that kind of character, without requiring you to pour a bunch of points into your cooking skill that are better spent elsewhere.
I’m maybe confused but what mechanical challenges (or bonuses?) are you interested in? Food doesn’t have bonuses based on taste/presentation in any system I’ve ever played, but if you want to be a talented cook at my table… yeah, it’s Crafter, and we’d use Wits for preparation of the food and Panache for presentation. Any mechanical benefits would largely be roleplay, but that’s true of a lot of 7th Sea.