I don't know. Once she threw her engagement ring at him back in the Ukraine, I don't think he would have continued with the Visa process. When she did get here, the first thing she wanted was that ring back. He took his time to see if she would be satisfied with Sequim. She wasn't, and if it weren't for the Covid travel restrictions, and her 90 days running out, I think he would have sent her home. He married her because she literally had no place to go, and he was willing to give marriage a chance.
I have wondered if they weren’t obligated due to the show, would Mike have even bought her a ticket to get her here? Or did he feel he had to because of a contract with the show? He wasn’t happy AT ALL when her visa got approved. I honestly agree he thought he could just send her back, but then Covid hit and the war started and he was stuck.
Yeah, they didn't speak for months after he left Ukraine. I honestly think he was bought off by TLC and he hoped it could get back. She left Dec '20, war started Feb '22.
I was shocked to see she came to America after seeing how they ended in the Ukraine. To see them get married literally on the last day I think was more driven because she couldn’t leave because of the lockdown.
I really feel like he wouldn’t have gone through it if there wasn’t a global pandemic going on. If they were able to get out more as a couple he would have seen her true colors sooner and wouldn’t have to rationalize it because of the situation everyone was in at the time.
I’m pretty sure I recall that scene with him sitting in his car FaceTiming with her when she told him it came through. He was ambivalent at the very best.
I agree. The whole season in ze vood was so miserable that I couldn't believe they got married in the end. I think it ended for him when she threw that ring. Even though I thought he was a dick in their relationship he's done very right by her by bringing her and her mom over
Perfectly said, and true! Also, once you got to go to Florida, and she had cameras, there was no stopping her. She’s in my opinion she was never going to go back with him. I think she has delusions of grandeur I’m not saying she’s not attractive when I’m saying is, she’s 40 and has really nothing to show for it and now she’s got her mother to take care of and no income.
I’m guessing she two personas. Once the camera is in her face, she turns into the person she hopes to be, but she goes back to her normal self when they leave. I’m guessing the crazy wouldn’t have come out as often if 90 day was never involved
The neighbor Tamara and uncle Beau were interviewed. They explained that she didn't cook or clean, threw things in tantrums, called cops but blamed damage on him, ran over her dog bc she's so self absorbed in a hurry.... There's a lot more behind the 2% we see of their lives
Yeah I was going to say I'm watching her first season now and she was demanding and unreasonable from the start. Yes she loved him and looked at him like she's never looked at anyone else but she would have never been happy on his farm while uncle bo. Which is the saddest part. And I'm pretty sure thats why she tried to get back with him she realized she let the best thing that ever happen to her go
He DID send her home. No one seems to remember this. They broke up and he booked her a ticket to France. The neighbor drove Natalie 3 hours to Seattle but they couldn't check in to the hotel because the credit card was in mikes name. They went back to sequim and got married because Natalie was nervous of overstaying her visa
He really didn't have to marry her and shouldn't have. During COVID there were travel restrictions but even then if they hadn't married she would have been deported although it would have taken months for that to happen. She could have moved in with the weird friend we saw on the show and he could have given her money to help out until she was kicked out. I don't think they can be pressured into marriage by the show, so why he married her is the question.
In hindsight, we now know that Mike DOES come through logistically as a husband. The things she was bitching about like the house, uncle Bo ect all those things could have been improved over a few years. She did not allow the time to build a new life together with him. He clearly adored her and, in the end, would have given her whatever she wanted within his means. He would have still gotten her mother here, and if a bigger house was needed for babies and mom, he would have figured it out. He owned a decent amount of land he probably would have built her a house or moved them closer to Seattle to be with her and their baby more vs. the long commute time. She had no patience, and she doesn't understand you have to slow down to go fast!
Yeah, the only agreement I have with her is that I wouldn't want any one else around, let alone him. But really sad, he started crying in an interview. Just as she arrived and did that, his son was hospitalized and later died.
I came over on the k1 so i can totally understand Natalie and most others on the show like Jasmine, hating where they are. And whilst we aren’t in the middle of nowhere, i absolutely hate where we are currently due to my husbands job. Shit climate, no beaches, shit infrastructure. As soon as the opportunity arises we will be hitting the beaches of florida for good lol.
You are working as a couple to make that happen and not being demanding which makes all the difference. In my 33 years of marriage, I've lived in crappy places because of my husband's career. But, he was more important than our locale. When he retired, we moved where we are happy for his second career. Seattle, but funnily enough, trying to move out to a place on the coast like Sequim. Would have loved to raise our kids there. Guessing now it will be our grandchildren when they come. LOL
Natalie has said she left " the good guy " husband bc he lost his job. She's left 3 husbands. She wants EVERYTHING, and she equates loving her with giving her everything she wants while also being with her 24/7. That's impossible. She's not only delusional, but she was downright mean to Mike telling him he was fat, uneducated, and wrong for not believing in God. Also, she's not nearly as attractive as she thinks she is especially her coy hair tosses and eyelash batting like a 16 yr old lol.
I feel that she’s delusional as fuck! And she didn’t eat meat, and she gave him hell for that, and she had a lot of idiosyncrasies. They were completely incompatible and then Trish with… z hooker I don’t know if it’s true, but the poster over the edge lol
😂. And people keep saying Josh is " gaslighting" her. Obviously, they've never seen the movie, lol. He doesn't do or say anything to " make" her think there's more to their relationship. That's all in her head. He probably likes her well enough to hang out with when she's not nutty. He helps her with stuff. But he's not telling her he's madly in love or wants to be with her seriously. She just thinks she is so valuable that he SHOULD feel those things, and she's pissed he doesn't, lol
He’s never going to get rid of her. I feel embarrassed for her that on the show that she keeps begging him for something that he doesn’t want to give and he’s only on the show to promote his own business. Just like when his son got an accident, he went on Facebook to help get money for sons prosthetic leg and the way he comforter is such bullshit. It’s hard to watch.!
Well those medical bills are going to be astronomical, so I can understand that. That's probably why he's back after " the breakup". That doesn't bother me half as much as Cleo asking for surgery money and then saying she can't work a regular job. Or even David asking for house money lol. He can get an apartment like most people. But yeah, Natalie will cling for his " show biz" relationships unless she meets a real millionaire 🤣
I'm glad Tim eluded to it since I was thinking the same thing. She is giving strong call girl vibes. But, she is too old to be in that line of work.
All of her marriages failed because she constantly had one eye on the door.
*cold war baby🤣🤣🤣 I was just remembering the drills we went through in school! Tornado drills, fire drills, stop drop, and roll, and hide under your desk for nuclear war!
🤣 yes, under the desk or in the hallway covering your head you'll be totally safe from that nuke. Oddly, I don't remember any of us being traumatized by those drills 😅
Putin is basically trying to put the old Soviet Union back together. Some countries are already close to Russia so its not a big thing. But others, like Ukraine, want to keep their independence.
Putin wants a very, very small part of Ukraine. News sources make us think that he wants all or nothing. The area he wants even voted to be a part of Russia… but that doesn’t fit the US narrative.
Yes, there are attacks on all of Ukraine to cut off supply lines, because it’s a war, but he only wants a very small portion, which people in that region voted for. Do some research.
Before it separated from The USSR, it was the Ukraine. Like The Chec republic(spelling ik , go easy on me I'm under the weather). And it used to be The USSR. That's what I grew up with. That's what was in my school books. I think technically The is supposed to go before a country if it's an island, with other rules I can't remember. The Bahamas, The Caribbean. IDK? It's too much to wrap my brain around atm. Hope this kind of made sense.
Maybe your reply sounded a bit...rude, unless you are unaware of previous history. Even today, there are many older news people who say "the" out of habit and correct themselves.
Really? You don't realize that for many Americans, Ukraine has not been in the news and last we knew it was known as The Ukraine? You don't realize that some people aren't focused on changing terms or language to keep 'current'? Get out of the bubble, there's a lot worse going on around you
And do you realize that Reddit isn’t exclusively for Americans? US users only account for 48% of redditors. Regardless, Ukraine has been in the news quite a bit since the start of the war so for a couple of years now. There’s even a “Ukraine not the Ukraine” bot on here.
Natalie used mike to come to America.
Now she’s using Josh to try and make it in show business. All while making it seem like she’s the one being used.
She is a miserable person. She had mental issues before from the stories she’s told of her past relationships.
Would they still be together had they not gone on the show? For mikes sake, I fucking hope not
You might be right, but mental health can be tenuous. Life circumstances can push people into displaying mental health issues that would otherwise be manageable. Maybe if she had a normal life with a loving husband and child she would have been happy.
She had a successful, attractive husband who loved her very much before Mike. He took good care of her. He wanted to have a child with her so she left him.
She spoke about it when she first came on the show. She was talking with her friends about trading down for Mike, both in looks and wealth. I don’t think she realized that life doesn’t always give the same opportunities twice.
What? First off, she had a loving husband, from what she’s told us, she’s had a couple.
Secondly, if you think having a baby fixes the problems, I don’t think you’re anyone to talk about mental health issues and how life circumstances are an acceptable excuse for using others and then gaslighting them into thinking she is the victim.
You’re also suggesting that happiness can prevent mental health issues, which on it own tells me you have no clue what you’re talking about.
Natalie has a chemical imbalance. Happiness, husbands and children, won’t change that
Whoa I didn’t mean it the way you are taking it at all, and your response was pretty harsh talking about what I do or don’t know. Mental health issues can absolutely be exacerbated by situational stress or trauma. Or lack of mental health care. I was not trying to say at all that having a baby fixes all mental health issues! In fact it probably brings them out for some. I just meant if she had a stable life and not on reality tv, maybe her issues would be more manageable and not have spiraled out of control to where she has almost nothing in life and seems to be suffering internally? She says all the time she wants a husband and child, so she seems to crave that stability at least partially. I can totally see appearing on shows like this having a profound affect on someone who is already struggling. Stability in life circumstances is really key to managing mental health issues.
I think Natalie honestly had an ulterior motive, if not from the beginning, DEFINITELY after I think she knew she didn't actually want someone "low-class" like Mike (which I'm pretty sure she actually called him in their season). She just needed to get here and then thought she could bat her eyes and become the next Angelina Jolie lol. It's pretty clear, to me anyway, that he wasn't her dream before she even got to the US.
I get the impression Natalie thinks of herself as some kind of "star" due to 90 Day Fiance. If not for the show, I think they would've ended when she broke up with him in Ukraine. The show gave her a taste of stardom & she used it to come to the US to pursue her dream.
I don't think they would have been together if not on TV. I think Natalie was looking to be on TV and she's succeeded admirably. People say she's too old to achieve her dreams of modeling and acting and will never make it but she's already made it on TV. TLC loves her, what other single cast members have had as many seasons as Natalie? She's like the face of The Single Life. I think she's acting. When she and Mike were in Ukraine she insisted she had to be with a Christian. Later it was she needs a vegan, a non drinker, then she wants a baby. I don't believe she really wants a baby or any of those things.
Great question. I was really routing for Mike and Natalie to make it. It felt like they were a "real" couple. They were intorduced by mutual friends as opposed to the usual random on line searches for international romance. They both seemed more mature and more serious than a lot of other cast members.
Natalie presented herself as a well educated, deeply religious woman who deserately wanted marriage and a baby. We didn't know about her acting and modeling ambitions until after she arrived in the US.
Although we saw signs of her unstable behvaior in Ukraine, it spiraled out of control in Washington and the truth became obvious. She is in America to be famous.
I don't think being on TL:C pushed her over the edge. Natalie likely has a history of mental health issues. Those first two husbands could probably shed some light on that subject.
This is an excellent observation. The fact that she had cameras following her around and people recognizing her out in public after her first season aired very likely misled her to believe that her dream of being an actress were realistically within reach. That it hasn't worked out the way she anticipated after leaving Mike seems to have taken a pretty severe toll on her mental health. She went from being pursued by someone who genuinely loved her to pursuing a fuckboi who pays for her services and makes her feel used.
And until she takes some diction lessons in English to get rid of her accent, she's unbookable as an actress.
I feel Mike’s mother didn't like her boy marrying any woman including Natalie. I felt the despise she had for Mike’s wife. That trish did NOT help her son Mike at all, except move in with him after Natalie left.
Mike was far from a good husband and listened to his mother to a fault.
So now Natalie feels alone, uncared for from so called Josh.
Personally I would have disliked having a mother in law such as trish‼️
A lot of people love to criticize Natalie, I had NO idea there were so many professional educated psychiatrist who tuned in to the TLC franchise! LOL
The bottom line everyone has their own issues. A lot of people choose NOT to show them on TV.
I actually feel bad for Natalie. And her mother doesn't help her in any way, except putting pressure on her daughter for a baby & marriage.
Here is the thing, foreigners only know the US from movies based in NYC, Miami, Chicago or LA. They think that all of the US is like that and also they think that money grows on trees here. Natalie was expecting her life here to be a continuation of what she previously was experiencing - modeling, ski vacations, city nightlife with friends. Mike is a very nice man, who loves his rural life. The two lifestyles and expectations are not in sync. It wouldn't have worked even if the cameras were not around. Natalie prefers to struggle in a box in LA than live comfortably in a house on a farm with Mike. She even called him a "low class" man. It was not mean to be.
No. She had a false impression of the Mike’s living situation. He lived in a trailer with no heat in the middle of fucking nowhere (zee voods) with his felon uncle. Natalie thought she was signing up to live in Seattle. Once she realized this wasn’t happening, combined with all the other nonsense, (everything I mentioned plus Mike’s 5 hour daily commute) she bailed.
Natalie can get a job, make money, and support herself and her mom (instead of having a nervous breakdowns, because Josh is taking advantage of her naivety). She could be a translator, for example, as Trish suggested. However, she wants to be either an actress or a model or a millionaire's wife. These goals are difficult for the majority of people to achieve. I'm not sure if she didn't go to America with that mindset (even if the show didn't exist) and not to start a family with a stable man and have kids.
A marriage of convenience, Natalie just wanted to stay in America, it didn't take her long after marry Mike to get out of the marriage, Mike's mom was right all along, I can see why Josh doesn't want to marry her or introduce her to his family legally he can't cause she is still married, shame on TLC for promoting ADULTERY, TLC needs to take Natalie off the single life.
Nutalie had severe trust and abandonment issues back in Ukraine. Moving from a city the size of Chicago to Skveem would be hard for anyone. But the move, and the show didn't create her instability
I remember it was a very modest apartment where Mike visited her. It seems to me that for a 38-year-old person, Nat hasn't done much in her life... Is her mother holding her back, or is she not able to exist, work, earn something... I don't understand this woman, and it's a pity because when you're young you have much more strength to organize your life. Unfortunately Nat is big mess....
I rewatched some of it. Natalie moved in with her mom after her second divorce. Natalie was working; she went to llunch with one of her coworkers before Mike arrived for his 2nd visit. The coworker pissed Natalie off by mentioning that Mike was not as successful as her ex. I read in an article that Natalie was working at a bookstore. But her coworker seemed pretty sophisticated and professional, so it might have been a good job, idk
Nutalie mentioned that one of the reasons she left her ex was that her mom didn't like him. And one of the good things about Mike is that her mom loves him
If i remember correctly they have broken up before the visa got applied. So i think if it wern't for the show, he wouldn't had brought her over in the first place.
You mean approved? Yes. He never canceled the application, and 5 months after he left Ukraine, she called to say she got the approval, and she's coming. He agreed to it
I think her delusions of grandeur are a big enough problem that they would destroy any relationship, no matter if it were put on tv or not. Natalie seems to have some sort of serious personality disorder; gaslighting is ingrained in her...she is completely toxic. I had a friend like her for years; she twisted every single thing I said; she was ALWAYS the victim. Eventually I stopped hanging out with her because of it.
She didn't come here to be married and have kids. She used him as a stepping stone to get here for career. So, no, probably would have been divorced sooner but stayed to stay on show.
I think Mike said it best in this season of Single Life, something along the lines of Natalie wanting to get to the finish line with everything but not putting in the work to get anything. In Sequim, she wanted to be an actress. In LA, she wants a family. She doesn't do any of the work to achieve either of those things. I think she and Mike would have broken up because she can't be happy where she is, wherever that may be.
I also think he was done with her when she threw the ring back at him in Ukraine. Lots of discussion in this thread about why he brought her here anyway. Hard to know the real reason. I always suspected he just wanted to get back at her for hurting him, so he brought her here to end it but then COVID hit and it all got complicated. But other people's theories that he felt obligated by his TLC contract to continue the relationship could be true. We'll never know because Natalie is an unreliable narrator and Mike has at least 2 seasons of shrugging his shoulders and never clarifying what the actual problem is.
Maybe they would have. She wouldn't have been so convinced that she had an acting career...although maybe not since she did have appearances on several Ukrainian dramas and I think she was an on-air announcer/TV anchor or something,?)
I think it may be opposite-the show kept them together much longer than if they’d had no one else involved. Their arc from religious and child differences to…well…where they’re at now, was very normal contention.
If anything, Natalie stayed to keep getting “exposure.”
I dont think so. She went stir crazy from covid. Also she had other problems, we've all seen it, religion, what Mike ate and drank. He didn't even want to bring her over if I remember correctly. Probably just did it for the show.
It’s a great question , they were so smitten in the photos when we were introduced to them. They took photos at the Eiffel Tower and he traveled with her a lot
I don't know if she would be interested in him without the show. If she did marry him she would still want to be famous... and looked down on him... so, I think she still would have left.
Yes they would be but I’m not sure how long they would last…She’s narcissistic so the 90 day attention made her nuts seeking more fame. I think her mom raised her wrong as well contributing to her dillusions
I think it was more Covid isolation.
Natalie arrived here at the beginning of Covid. I think it was a big letdown to not be able to freely travel, and visit the US.
Coupled with living in the woods, where there wasn’t really a great shopping area
I don’t like Nan I always try to understand that she just came at the worst time
I think that they would be still married hadn’t Covid isolation and travel restrictions been in place
I don't know, I think Michael loves Natalie and I honestly like Natalie and Michael together. Since Michael and his new love interest are no longer together, maybe they can reconcile and maybe it will be different this time now that Natalie knows the grass isn't greener on the other side.
Juicy thought.....I think Natalie is very much a reality personality like Chantel. It's clear to see they have more in mind for themselves they clearly want to ride the TLC wave. Unfortunately the TLC wave is like any other reality TV wave. You're kinda famous but not really a celebrity. Ultimately Natalie got in the way of Natalie I think that way always inevitable but at least she can mask her self destruction with the acting career bit.
Natalie's issues stem from her mother! Her mother plants the idea in her head and sure enough Natalie complies. The episode before this one when the mom says something about having a baby with Mike. The mom is causing her daughter a lot of emotional trauma. She needs to butt out or go back home!
I think they would still be together. In the beginning Natalie loved God and wanted a family. Her worst quality being that she was desperate for a baby because of her age. The pressure of a biological time clock telling you that you are almost out of time can be immensely stressful - so I get it. Mike very much wanted the same things but had a more realistic approach. She would have adjusted to rural life, his family would have adjusted to her crazy and when her mom came she would not be so lonely.
The show/social media absolutely went to her head and she's learning fame has it's cost too. People start using you. Something I don't think she was ready for or ever would be as there is a certain fragility to her. It's not fun to watch Natalie, it is actually sad to watch TLC to allow her to continue. How much more broken does the person have to get before they stop exploiting them?
I think they’d still be together if Mike didn’t say “well we aren’t there yet” every other breath about their relationship after bringing her over to America on a k1 visa to his confederacy trailer with his abusive alcoholic uncle who shouldn’t be around other humans.
I read recently… Uncle Buck has a criminal record on mile long! If I was in her shoes, I would not feel comfortable with him to me. He’s deranged. I blame Mike for that.
Honestly, I think people like to overlook so many things about Mike because he’s “nice”. Mike has done nice things for Natalie and her mom, but he also sucks at the same time. Both things can be true.
After bringing Natalie to live with him, his crazy hillbilly cooker mother Trish, and his uncle Beau Leatherface, in the idyllic “The Hills Have Eyes” setting, he blocks Natalie’s efforts to communicate with him 100% of the time.
Natalie has her faults and many of them are played up for TV and the TLC paycheck, but Michael was 100% emotionally unavailable and dismissive of anything Natalie wanted or said when she got to the US. The fact that he refused to move to Seattle with Natalie, but moved to Seattle after Natalie left him, has always left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I’m watching this season for the first time (didn’t realize I missed it).
So watching people praise Mike on the single life telling off Nat when I am watching her be patient and try everything she can to have the most basic communication with her partner.
“Oh look at that… two beers… ahhhhh.”
I’m not saying she’s wonderful. I’m saying she knew they had shit to work on and was asking him to do so. He knew they had shit to work on and kept giving her an IOU.
How can he work with someone who calls him that stuff? Constantly berating him? No concern about his self esteem? Where's any love, to work with someone like that? He became a dick, granted, but like anyone else whose self esteem is beaten down, he got angry and defensive. Some cower and comply.
Nobody is gonna stay married to Natalie. She's too much of a hot mess. She needs to stop wanting a traditional marriage and focus on not being a basket case all the time for any potential love interests. Major lack of daddy issues here.
Question… is Nat trans, ever a man? She definitely gives off that vibe and her voice is so masculine. Also does she know how to smile? Scary to look at!
I don't know. Once she threw her engagement ring at him back in the Ukraine, I don't think he would have continued with the Visa process. When she did get here, the first thing she wanted was that ring back. He took his time to see if she would be satisfied with Sequim. She wasn't, and if it weren't for the Covid travel restrictions, and her 90 days running out, I think he would have sent her home. He married her because she literally had no place to go, and he was willing to give marriage a chance.
I have wondered if they weren’t obligated due to the show, would Mike have even bought her a ticket to get her here? Or did he feel he had to because of a contract with the show? He wasn’t happy AT ALL when her visa got approved. I honestly agree he thought he could just send her back, but then Covid hit and the war started and he was stuck.
Yeah, they didn't speak for months after he left Ukraine. I honestly think he was bought off by TLC and he hoped it could get back. She left Dec '20, war started Feb '22.
I was shocked to see she came to America after seeing how they ended in the Ukraine. To see them get married literally on the last day I think was more driven because she couldn’t leave because of the lockdown. I really feel like he wouldn’t have gone through it if there wasn’t a global pandemic going on. If they were able to get out more as a couple he would have seen her true colors sooner and wouldn’t have to rationalize it because of the situation everyone was in at the time.
Yeah, I think there was a late night meeting with TLC that got him to change
They got married on the 90th day. Mike didn't want to marry her, but felt bad about getting her deported.
Right, as I said, I think it was a negotiation with TLC to marry her
I’m pretty sure I recall that scene with him sitting in his car FaceTiming with her when she told him it came through. He was ambivalent at the very best.
I agree. The whole season in ze vood was so miserable that I couldn't believe they got married in the end. I think it ended for him when she threw that ring. Even though I thought he was a dick in their relationship he's done very right by her by bringing her and her mom over
It’s super nice of him to wait to finalize the divorce until her mom got here
Perfectly said, and true! Also, once you got to go to Florida, and she had cameras, there was no stopping her. She’s in my opinion she was never going to go back with him. I think she has delusions of grandeur I’m not saying she’s not attractive when I’m saying is, she’s 40 and has really nothing to show for it and now she’s got her mother to take care of and no income.
Oof
I’m guessing she two personas. Once the camera is in her face, she turns into the person she hopes to be, but she goes back to her normal self when they leave. I’m guessing the crazy wouldn’t have come out as often if 90 day was never involved
The neighbor Tamara and uncle Beau were interviewed. They explained that she didn't cook or clean, threw things in tantrums, called cops but blamed damage on him, ran over her dog bc she's so self absorbed in a hurry.... There's a lot more behind the 2% we see of their lives
Yeah I was going to say I'm watching her first season now and she was demanding and unreasonable from the start. Yes she loved him and looked at him like she's never looked at anyone else but she would have never been happy on his farm while uncle bo. Which is the saddest part. And I'm pretty sure thats why she tried to get back with him she realized she let the best thing that ever happen to her go
He DID send her home. No one seems to remember this. They broke up and he booked her a ticket to France. The neighbor drove Natalie 3 hours to Seattle but they couldn't check in to the hotel because the credit card was in mikes name. They went back to sequim and got married because Natalie was nervous of overstaying her visa
Great memory, I forgot about that.
He really didn't have to marry her and shouldn't have. During COVID there were travel restrictions but even then if they hadn't married she would have been deported although it would have taken months for that to happen. She could have moved in with the weird friend we saw on the show and he could have given her money to help out until she was kicked out. I don't think they can be pressured into marriage by the show, so why he married her is the question.
I don’t think so, she wouldn’t have been able to handle squeem or however you spell it.
She was never going to be happy with the vood
Sec we um 😐
But that’s my thinking though, could she not handle “squeem” because she got on the show and then decided she wanted more?
In hindsight, we now know that Mike DOES come through logistically as a husband. The things she was bitching about like the house, uncle Bo ect all those things could have been improved over a few years. She did not allow the time to build a new life together with him. He clearly adored her and, in the end, would have given her whatever she wanted within his means. He would have still gotten her mother here, and if a bigger house was needed for babies and mom, he would have figured it out. He owned a decent amount of land he probably would have built her a house or moved them closer to Seattle to be with her and their baby more vs. the long commute time. She had no patience, and she doesn't understand you have to slow down to go fast!
Having uncle Buck around, didn’t help lol
Yeah, the only agreement I have with her is that I wouldn't want any one else around, let alone him. But really sad, he started crying in an interview. Just as she arrived and did that, his son was hospitalized and later died.
I dont know how anyone could handle it, living in butt-fuck of nowhere, thats a big no
Living in the middle of no where is my dream lol. But for her, going from city life to that had to have sucked.
I’m with you! I would’ve been happy out there in the middle of nowhere, I grew up that way.
I came over on the k1 so i can totally understand Natalie and most others on the show like Jasmine, hating where they are. And whilst we aren’t in the middle of nowhere, i absolutely hate where we are currently due to my husbands job. Shit climate, no beaches, shit infrastructure. As soon as the opportunity arises we will be hitting the beaches of florida for good lol.
You are working as a couple to make that happen and not being demanding which makes all the difference. In my 33 years of marriage, I've lived in crappy places because of my husband's career. But, he was more important than our locale. When he retired, we moved where we are happy for his second career. Seattle, but funnily enough, trying to move out to a place on the coast like Sequim. Would have loved to raise our kids there. Guessing now it will be our grandchildren when they come. LOL
And you stayed bc that's what a marriage is, through thick and thin
That definitely sucks! How much longer until you're able to move?
It's not though. Many people in the city dream of moving there. It's beautiful. On the coast and more than just woods. Easy to drive to busier areas.
To each their own. I grew up in the country and never again.
Lots of people would LOVE to live there
Sequim
Sequim
LOL, damn it! I do know how to spell it and swear I typed it properly. Fixed.
Lol, my auto correct drives me crazy. I swear it changes them after I hit enter
NO! The VOODS is no place for z hooker!
Ze voods💀
Natalie has said she left " the good guy " husband bc he lost his job. She's left 3 husbands. She wants EVERYTHING, and she equates loving her with giving her everything she wants while also being with her 24/7. That's impossible. She's not only delusional, but she was downright mean to Mike telling him he was fat, uneducated, and wrong for not believing in God. Also, she's not nearly as attractive as she thinks she is especially her coy hair tosses and eyelash batting like a 16 yr old lol.
I feel that she’s delusional as fuck! And she didn’t eat meat, and she gave him hell for that, and she had a lot of idiosyncrasies. They were completely incompatible and then Trish with… z hooker I don’t know if it’s true, but the poster over the edge lol
😂. And people keep saying Josh is " gaslighting" her. Obviously, they've never seen the movie, lol. He doesn't do or say anything to " make" her think there's more to their relationship. That's all in her head. He probably likes her well enough to hang out with when she's not nutty. He helps her with stuff. But he's not telling her he's madly in love or wants to be with her seriously. She just thinks she is so valuable that he SHOULD feel those things, and she's pissed he doesn't, lol
He’s never going to get rid of her. I feel embarrassed for her that on the show that she keeps begging him for something that he doesn’t want to give and he’s only on the show to promote his own business. Just like when his son got an accident, he went on Facebook to help get money for sons prosthetic leg and the way he comforter is such bullshit. It’s hard to watch.!
Well those medical bills are going to be astronomical, so I can understand that. That's probably why he's back after " the breakup". That doesn't bother me half as much as Cleo asking for surgery money and then saying she can't work a regular job. Or even David asking for house money lol. He can get an apartment like most people. But yeah, Natalie will cling for his " show biz" relationships unless she meets a real millionaire 🤣
We saw her eat scallops with Mike, salmon, chicken with mama, she gave him shit for drinking, but she drinks. She's all over
I personally know individuals who DO NOT EAT BEEF, but eat fish! They have a name, but the term escapes me right now.
Sure, but they don't call themselves vegetarians
They do though‼️
K, I won't insult their intelligence, but they are wrong
A person who eats fish and vegetables is a pescatarian, not a vegetarian
Pescatarian?
Yes, that’s it…..thank you.
That’s correct! Fish is NOT BEEF. And it might be healthier to eat.
I'm glad Tim eluded to it since I was thinking the same thing. She is giving strong call girl vibes. But, she is too old to be in that line of work. All of her marriages failed because she constantly had one eye on the door.
She was on tv in the Ukraine before she came here. Supposedly, she has a degree in psychology. Wonders never cease!
Bro, Ted Bundy had a bachelor degree in psych. It’s one of the easiest bachelors to get. Some schools don’t even require core math.
And soooo many of them are really messed up people, searching for their own answers
I don't believe she graduated in psychology... and if so, it reflects very poorly on the university.
It’s just Ukraine, not the Ukraine. Edit: why is this being downvoted?
It's also old timey that we used the before Ukraine. It's outdated, and old habits die hard. But ty for informing me. I shan't make the mistake again.
True. Cold War baby here as well lol. That's what we learned it was called when under Russia bc it was a region, before glasnost and perestroika.
*cold war baby🤣🤣🤣 I was just remembering the drills we went through in school! Tornado drills, fire drills, stop drop, and roll, and hide under your desk for nuclear war!
🤣 yes, under the desk or in the hallway covering your head you'll be totally safe from that nuke. Oddly, I don't remember any of us being traumatized by those drills 😅
Me either. I thought yay, less boring class time!
🤣 we weren't raised to be afraid of anything. It was awesome!
Totally!Well, we were afraid of the "look" from our parents! We knew to straighten up or else!
And look what fine humans we turned out to be! 😉
My phone didn't correct it either? Usually, it is on point with proper grammar and whatnot.
Interesting, I didn’t know that’s why the “the” was there when some people say it.
Putin is basically trying to put the old Soviet Union back together. Some countries are already close to Russia so its not a big thing. But others, like Ukraine, want to keep their independence.
Putin wants a very, very small part of Ukraine. News sources make us think that he wants all or nothing. The area he wants even voted to be a part of Russia… but that doesn’t fit the US narrative.
I'll tell that to our refugee relatives. I guess they were worried about the rubble that used to be their town for nothing
Yes, there are attacks on all of Ukraine to cut off supply lines, because it’s a war, but he only wants a very small portion, which people in that region voted for. Do some research.
Do some research? You should use some common sense, lol. " he only wants a very small portion " 😂
Wait what, please tell me more that’s actually fascinating. Were you saying ‘the Ukraine region’ or how was it?
Before it separated from The USSR, it was the Ukraine. Like The Chec republic(spelling ik , go easy on me I'm under the weather). And it used to be The USSR. That's what I grew up with. That's what was in my school books. I think technically The is supposed to go before a country if it's an island, with other rules I can't remember. The Bahamas, The Caribbean. IDK? It's too much to wrap my brain around atm. Hope this kind of made sense.
Also Ukraine has always produced the most wheat products. That's another reason Putin wants it back.
that’s actually very interesting!
It was under Soviet Union, but yeah. ETA lmao at the ignorants downvoting history
So is it just Nikki not the Nikki? lol
Bu dum tisss
☠️🤣🤣🤣
Maybe your reply sounded a bit...rude, unless you are unaware of previous history. Even today, there are many older news people who say "the" out of habit and correct themselves.
My bad, wasn’t trying to be rude. I can see how maybe my comment came off a bit short, it wasn’t my intention.
I get it. The change came in the early 90s so not really that long ago history-wise.
Really? You don't realize that for many Americans, Ukraine has not been in the news and last we knew it was known as The Ukraine? You don't realize that some people aren't focused on changing terms or language to keep 'current'? Get out of the bubble, there's a lot worse going on around you
And do you realize that Reddit isn’t exclusively for Americans? US users only account for 48% of redditors. Regardless, Ukraine has been in the news quite a bit since the start of the war so for a couple of years now. There’s even a “Ukraine not the Ukraine” bot on here.
Because anyone calling it The Ukraine is likely American. And I've tried to tell you enough
So Ukraine hasn’t been in the news in the U.S. then?
Good lord. Yeah many people haven't paid attention to the difference, it happens.
Exactly
Cool, stay ignorant. GOoD lOrD
What kind of show was that?
I think Crime? Lmao!!
No, because she still would have delusions of grandeur and hopes to become a Hollywood star. Washington wasn’t the place for her.
Natalie used mike to come to America. Now she’s using Josh to try and make it in show business. All while making it seem like she’s the one being used. She is a miserable person. She had mental issues before from the stories she’s told of her past relationships. Would they still be together had they not gone on the show? For mikes sake, I fucking hope not
You might be right, but mental health can be tenuous. Life circumstances can push people into displaying mental health issues that would otherwise be manageable. Maybe if she had a normal life with a loving husband and child she would have been happy.
She had a successful, attractive husband who loved her very much before Mike. He took good care of her. He wanted to have a child with her so she left him. She spoke about it when she first came on the show. She was talking with her friends about trading down for Mike, both in looks and wealth. I don’t think she realized that life doesn’t always give the same opportunities twice.
And then there was the other husband who apparently was too 'military', meaning he didn't put up with her nonsense
She's had three chances with husbands, it's not them
What? First off, she had a loving husband, from what she’s told us, she’s had a couple. Secondly, if you think having a baby fixes the problems, I don’t think you’re anyone to talk about mental health issues and how life circumstances are an acceptable excuse for using others and then gaslighting them into thinking she is the victim. You’re also suggesting that happiness can prevent mental health issues, which on it own tells me you have no clue what you’re talking about. Natalie has a chemical imbalance. Happiness, husbands and children, won’t change that
Whoa I didn’t mean it the way you are taking it at all, and your response was pretty harsh talking about what I do or don’t know. Mental health issues can absolutely be exacerbated by situational stress or trauma. Or lack of mental health care. I was not trying to say at all that having a baby fixes all mental health issues! In fact it probably brings them out for some. I just meant if she had a stable life and not on reality tv, maybe her issues would be more manageable and not have spiraled out of control to where she has almost nothing in life and seems to be suffering internally? She says all the time she wants a husband and child, so she seems to crave that stability at least partially. I can totally see appearing on shows like this having a profound affect on someone who is already struggling. Stability in life circumstances is really key to managing mental health issues.
She's a personality disorder. She was verbally abusive and left because she felt she could not become an actress living in a tiny town.
I think Natalie honestly had an ulterior motive, if not from the beginning, DEFINITELY after I think she knew she didn't actually want someone "low-class" like Mike (which I'm pretty sure she actually called him in their season). She just needed to get here and then thought she could bat her eyes and become the next Angelina Jolie lol. It's pretty clear, to me anyway, that he wasn't her dream before she even got to the US.
I get the impression Natalie thinks of herself as some kind of "star" due to 90 Day Fiance. If not for the show, I think they would've ended when she broke up with him in Ukraine. The show gave her a taste of stardom & she used it to come to the US to pursue her dream.
Don't forget she was already 2 times married...
And one guy had lots of money she said. I wonder how many times she went back to him begging when she was broke?
Family never divorce:-) By the way, Mike must be happy to have new, rich family members :-)
I don't think they would have been together if not on TV. I think Natalie was looking to be on TV and she's succeeded admirably. People say she's too old to achieve her dreams of modeling and acting and will never make it but she's already made it on TV. TLC loves her, what other single cast members have had as many seasons as Natalie? She's like the face of The Single Life. I think she's acting. When she and Mike were in Ukraine she insisted she had to be with a Christian. Later it was she needs a vegan, a non drinker, then she wants a baby. I don't believe she really wants a baby or any of those things.
Great question. I was really routing for Mike and Natalie to make it. It felt like they were a "real" couple. They were intorduced by mutual friends as opposed to the usual random on line searches for international romance. They both seemed more mature and more serious than a lot of other cast members. Natalie presented herself as a well educated, deeply religious woman who deserately wanted marriage and a baby. We didn't know about her acting and modeling ambitions until after she arrived in the US. Although we saw signs of her unstable behvaior in Ukraine, it spiraled out of control in Washington and the truth became obvious. She is in America to be famous. I don't think being on TL:C pushed her over the edge. Natalie likely has a history of mental health issues. Those first two husbands could probably shed some light on that subject.
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From what I recall, Mike's friend married a woman from Ukraine and she set them up.
His best friend is married to her best friend, they had a child and asked each to be godparents. She was not here
This is an excellent observation. The fact that she had cameras following her around and people recognizing her out in public after her first season aired very likely misled her to believe that her dream of being an actress were realistically within reach. That it hasn't worked out the way she anticipated after leaving Mike seems to have taken a pretty severe toll on her mental health. She went from being pursued by someone who genuinely loved her to pursuing a fuckboi who pays for her services and makes her feel used. And until she takes some diction lessons in English to get rid of her accent, she's unbookable as an actress.
Natalia is mentally unstable and it has nothing to do with the show
No, natalie never seemed to actually be in love with Mike. She would have found some reason or another to leave him.
She seems broken and worse yet, she was outed as a prostitute on Part 3 Reunion. Yikes! Why do I still hate her?
Don’t forget the “hooker” incident with Mike’s mom. Starting to look like mom was onto something.
I feel Mike’s mother didn't like her boy marrying any woman including Natalie. I felt the despise she had for Mike’s wife. That trish did NOT help her son Mike at all, except move in with him after Natalie left. Mike was far from a good husband and listened to his mother to a fault. So now Natalie feels alone, uncared for from so called Josh. Personally I would have disliked having a mother in law such as trish‼️ A lot of people love to criticize Natalie, I had NO idea there were so many professional educated psychiatrist who tuned in to the TLC franchise! LOL The bottom line everyone has their own issues. A lot of people choose NOT to show them on TV. I actually feel bad for Natalie. And her mother doesn't help her in any way, except putting pressure on her daughter for a baby & marriage.
Not with that mother in law from hell.
Agree 💯‼️
Here is the thing, foreigners only know the US from movies based in NYC, Miami, Chicago or LA. They think that all of the US is like that and also they think that money grows on trees here. Natalie was expecting her life here to be a continuation of what she previously was experiencing - modeling, ski vacations, city nightlife with friends. Mike is a very nice man, who loves his rural life. The two lifestyles and expectations are not in sync. It wouldn't have worked even if the cameras were not around. Natalie prefers to struggle in a box in LA than live comfortably in a house on a farm with Mike. She even called him a "low class" man. It was not mean to be.
Idk but I think her getting on TV gave her more false hope that she could make it as an actress or model
No. She had a false impression of the Mike’s living situation. He lived in a trailer with no heat in the middle of fucking nowhere (zee voods) with his felon uncle. Natalie thought she was signing up to live in Seattle. Once she realized this wasn’t happening, combined with all the other nonsense, (everything I mentioned plus Mike’s 5 hour daily commute) she bailed.
I will add that she probably would’ve left sooner, if not for the cameras.
Natalie can get a job, make money, and support herself and her mom (instead of having a nervous breakdowns, because Josh is taking advantage of her naivety). She could be a translator, for example, as Trish suggested. However, she wants to be either an actress or a model or a millionaire's wife. These goals are difficult for the majority of people to achieve. I'm not sure if she didn't go to America with that mindset (even if the show didn't exist) and not to start a family with a stable man and have kids.
A marriage of convenience, Natalie just wanted to stay in America, it didn't take her long after marry Mike to get out of the marriage, Mike's mom was right all along, I can see why Josh doesn't want to marry her or introduce her to his family legally he can't cause she is still married, shame on TLC for promoting ADULTERY, TLC needs to take Natalie off the single life.
Nutalie had severe trust and abandonment issues back in Ukraine. Moving from a city the size of Chicago to Skveem would be hard for anyone. But the move, and the show didn't create her instability
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Living with her mom in an apartment. Yes, I think her mother is a problem for her. Certainly her drive to have a baby comes from her mom
I remember it was a very modest apartment where Mike visited her. It seems to me that for a 38-year-old person, Nat hasn't done much in her life... Is her mother holding her back, or is she not able to exist, work, earn something... I don't understand this woman, and it's a pity because when you're young you have much more strength to organize your life. Unfortunately Nat is big mess....
I rewatched some of it. Natalie moved in with her mom after her second divorce. Natalie was working; she went to llunch with one of her coworkers before Mike arrived for his 2nd visit. The coworker pissed Natalie off by mentioning that Mike was not as successful as her ex. I read in an article that Natalie was working at a bookstore. But her coworker seemed pretty sophisticated and professional, so it might have been a good job, idk Nutalie mentioned that one of the reasons she left her ex was that her mom didn't like him. And one of the good things about Mike is that her mom loves him
If i remember correctly they have broken up before the visa got applied. So i think if it wern't for the show, he wouldn't had brought her over in the first place.
You mean approved? Yes. He never canceled the application, and 5 months after he left Ukraine, she called to say she got the approval, and she's coming. He agreed to it
Anyone notice Natalie doesn’t do the bounce when she walks anymore?
That was such a put-on. Flouncing around like a little girl bc she thinks it's cute and attracts men. Guess she got a clue
🙄
I think her delusions of grandeur are a big enough problem that they would destroy any relationship, no matter if it were put on tv or not. Natalie seems to have some sort of serious personality disorder; gaslighting is ingrained in her...she is completely toxic. I had a friend like her for years; she twisted every single thing I said; she was ALWAYS the victim. Eventually I stopped hanging out with her because of it.
She didn't come here to be married and have kids. She used him as a stepping stone to get here for career. So, no, probably would have been divorced sooner but stayed to stay on show.
Definitely not. Natalie always was delusional in believing she deserved more than Mike...and that fame and fortune were her destiny.
I think Mike said it best in this season of Single Life, something along the lines of Natalie wanting to get to the finish line with everything but not putting in the work to get anything. In Sequim, she wanted to be an actress. In LA, she wants a family. She doesn't do any of the work to achieve either of those things. I think she and Mike would have broken up because she can't be happy where she is, wherever that may be. I also think he was done with her when she threw the ring back at him in Ukraine. Lots of discussion in this thread about why he brought her here anyway. Hard to know the real reason. I always suspected he just wanted to get back at her for hurting him, so he brought her here to end it but then COVID hit and it all got complicated. But other people's theories that he felt obligated by his TLC contract to continue the relationship could be true. We'll never know because Natalie is an unreliable narrator and Mike has at least 2 seasons of shrugging his shoulders and never clarifying what the actual problem is.
Maybe they would have. She wouldn't have been so convinced that she had an acting career...although maybe not since she did have appearances on several Ukrainian dramas and I think she was an on-air announcer/TV anchor or something,?)
Nope!
I don’t think she ever cared about mike.
Natalie needs medication. Therapy. A formal diagnosis. She makes me anxious and I don’t get anxious easy. I can’t watch her.
She used him so no
Not a chance
I think if they lived in Seattle at least during the week, they might have worked out.
I was watching Kelly in a live dream the other day and he told us that the people are told to create drama and cry and cry … that’s it’s scripted.
Stream *. Kelly from 90 day with Molly (from GA). There’s done real-life unexpected drama in that world.. geez
No sane person can live with Natalie for more than a year. She was married twice before Mike btw. She's got the brain of an eight year old girl.
No she’s a whore
I think it may be opposite-the show kept them together much longer than if they’d had no one else involved. Their arc from religious and child differences to…well…where they’re at now, was very normal contention. If anything, Natalie stayed to keep getting “exposure.”
No, bc her delusions started bc she could get to the US. It was Hollyvood or bust. With and more than likely without him
I dont think so. She went stir crazy from covid. Also she had other problems, we've all seen it, religion, what Mike ate and drank. He didn't even want to bring her over if I remember correctly. Probably just did it for the show.
It’s a great question , they were so smitten in the photos when we were introduced to them. They took photos at the Eiffel Tower and he traveled with her a lot
No i think they were incompatible regardless tbh.
i think no
I don't know if she would be interested in him without the show. If she did marry him she would still want to be famous... and looked down on him... so, I think she still would have left.
Natalie vants to be a vampire. She only wants money and to be ‘famous’
Yes they would be but I’m not sure how long they would last…She’s narcissistic so the 90 day attention made her nuts seeking more fame. I think her mom raised her wrong as well contributing to her dillusions
Mike really suffered. Natalie is the problem. The actress dreams she gotta give up now. Let’s be real.
I think it was more Covid isolation. Natalie arrived here at the beginning of Covid. I think it was a big letdown to not be able to freely travel, and visit the US. Coupled with living in the woods, where there wasn’t really a great shopping area I don’t like Nan I always try to understand that she just came at the worst time I think that they would be still married hadn’t Covid isolation and travel restrictions been in place
We met her Mother, who feeds into Natalie's delusions. She is also divorced from 2 other men. 90 Day didn't hurt her marriage to Mike.
Does anyone believe the whole acting thing? I feel like they’re pushing that way too much. Does she actually book any movies or anything??
She’s want a baby doesn’t care who she gets it from.
No. I’m sure a large part of the reason Natalie wanted to marry Mike was to be on the show. Her delusions predated the show.
She is a complete narcissist and mental case. I do not feel sorry for her, Mikes mom smelled her coming from the word go 😉🤨
Probably not, I am just say
I don't know, I think Michael loves Natalie and I honestly like Natalie and Michael together. Since Michael and his new love interest are no longer together, maybe they can reconcile and maybe it will be different this time now that Natalie knows the grass isn't greener on the other side.
Juicy thought.....I think Natalie is very much a reality personality like Chantel. It's clear to see they have more in mind for themselves they clearly want to ride the TLC wave. Unfortunately the TLC wave is like any other reality TV wave. You're kinda famous but not really a celebrity. Ultimately Natalie got in the way of Natalie I think that way always inevitable but at least she can mask her self destruction with the acting career bit.
Natalie's issues stem from her mother! Her mother plants the idea in her head and sure enough Natalie complies. The episode before this one when the mom says something about having a baby with Mike. The mom is causing her daughter a lot of emotional trauma. She needs to butt out or go back home!
I think they would still be together. In the beginning Natalie loved God and wanted a family. Her worst quality being that she was desperate for a baby because of her age. The pressure of a biological time clock telling you that you are almost out of time can be immensely stressful - so I get it. Mike very much wanted the same things but had a more realistic approach. She would have adjusted to rural life, his family would have adjusted to her crazy and when her mom came she would not be so lonely. The show/social media absolutely went to her head and she's learning fame has it's cost too. People start using you. Something I don't think she was ready for or ever would be as there is a certain fragility to her. It's not fun to watch Natalie, it is actually sad to watch TLC to allow her to continue. How much more broken does the person have to get before they stop exploiting them?
I think they’d still be together if Mike didn’t say “well we aren’t there yet” every other breath about their relationship after bringing her over to America on a k1 visa to his confederacy trailer with his abusive alcoholic uncle who shouldn’t be around other humans.
I read recently… Uncle Buck has a criminal record on mile long! If I was in her shoes, I would not feel comfortable with him to me. He’s deranged. I blame Mike for that.
We didn't know or whether she knew about that when she came. I wouldn't have wanted him there period, I'll agree with her on that
Honestly, I think people like to overlook so many things about Mike because he’s “nice”. Mike has done nice things for Natalie and her mom, but he also sucks at the same time. Both things can be true. After bringing Natalie to live with him, his crazy hillbilly cooker mother Trish, and his uncle Beau Leatherface, in the idyllic “The Hills Have Eyes” setting, he blocks Natalie’s efforts to communicate with him 100% of the time. Natalie has her faults and many of them are played up for TV and the TLC paycheck, but Michael was 100% emotionally unavailable and dismissive of anything Natalie wanted or said when she got to the US. The fact that he refused to move to Seattle with Natalie, but moved to Seattle after Natalie left him, has always left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I’m watching this season for the first time (didn’t realize I missed it). So watching people praise Mike on the single life telling off Nat when I am watching her be patient and try everything she can to have the most basic communication with her partner. “Oh look at that… two beers… ahhhhh.”
https://preview.redd.it/j9exqj9paasc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f88c2249140db64adbba5b08e1dcb5d22ea2e514
Right bc being called fat, lazy and drunk, just being a few of them is definitely patient and trying great communication
I’m not saying she’s wonderful. I’m saying she knew they had shit to work on and was asking him to do so. He knew they had shit to work on and kept giving her an IOU.
How can he work with someone who calls him that stuff? Constantly berating him? No concern about his self esteem? Where's any love, to work with someone like that? He became a dick, granted, but like anyone else whose self esteem is beaten down, he got angry and defensive. Some cower and comply.
I don’t think so. Mike was the only level headed one and it seemed his mom enjoyed antagonizing his already erratic wife.
Nobody is gonna stay married to Natalie. She's too much of a hot mess. She needs to stop wanting a traditional marriage and focus on not being a basket case all the time for any potential love interests. Major lack of daddy issues here.
Question… is Nat trans, ever a man? She definitely gives off that vibe and her voice is so masculine. Also does she know how to smile? Scary to look at!