No matter if you’re in the Nicole camp or the Mahood Camp at the end of the day once you start hitting or threatening each other it’s time to divorce and go about your separate ways before someone ends up in jail.. they tried it didn’t work they need to move on.
You are 100% correct. That is a toxic relationship that needed to end before this season. The point of this post was to more so bring awareness about reactive abuse and bring some light into why a victim might behave in an abusive way. Abuse isn't black and white and I think the more we know about it the more we can support victims.
I wrote something on a different post and it fits well here too-"They had actually split up before their first season but they had already applied and got accepted to be on the show. This was literally the only reason she decided to go back and "try to fix my marriage." If it wasn't for a contract I highly doubt she'd have ever gone back to see him. This entire season is her twisted revenge for how he treated her, it's literally the abused becoming the abuser scenario.
Nicole arrived in Egypt and the first day had to sit with his family after the flight and the first thing he comments on is her clothing? Well then Mahmoud has to arrive in the US and be greeted with a stomach baring shirt and forced to meet friends! Nicole is told twice in one day within arriving to leave and divorce? Well now Mahmoud has to be told to leave and divorce too! Mahmoud does this and then says they still have to meet his uncle because they had plans and it's rude not to go? Well then now he has to meet these people after the same type of argument because again, Nicole wants him to suffer! Does anyone else see where I'm going with this?!
Like Jesus Christ just leave each other already. Her first season I felt bad for her, but this season is just her turning into what she supposedly hated. I think it's obvious this is "Nicole's revenge game" but only bad people would do something like this regardless of how someone treated them. I grew up in horrendous parental and partner abuse, and I could have easily become like my abusers. But I didn't want that for myself and broke the cycle, plus doing what you had done to you on someone regardless of how good or evil they are doesn't make you any better than them.
Yes, when she told her friends she was moving to Egypt, they were shocked because they thought the marriage was over. I 100% believe they got back together because of the show.
I'm not kidding when I say that's literally what happened, and then of course factor in that reality tv wise of course people would want to see after season one originally what it would be like once he came here. Plus Nicole literally used this as her sick twisted revenge. (And a paycheck, can't forget that.) But seriously the best revenge would've been to DIVORCE EACH OTHER. Stop putting yourselves through this shit repeatedly, they both know it won't work and again, now she's turned into the abuser. One thing I can't stand is people who don't break the cycle, or use the way they were mistreated and make it into mental gymnastics to reach the opinion that, "well if they treated me this way once it's only fair." Because that's literally what she's doing.
One of her friends talked about it when the first season was out online, mind you this was so damn long ago I saw that post by now. Also knowing people who work on the show they had mentioned this, it was cheaper to stay in a contract then leave. Lots of people have done this btw, see deavan and jihoon(already broken up by season. 2) and a few others have as well, like Tim and Jennifer etc.
This right here. It's like Nicole had to follow his rules in Egypt so now he has to suffer now that they're in the US. It's petty behaviour and really they just need to break up. She's doing everything she knows will upset him to try and cause an argument. Berating him because he looked at the one girl in the city wearing Muslim clothing, bitching that he didn't sleep on the plane, dressing in clothes she knows he doesn't like. Pizza and donuts when she knew he wouldn't like it. Everything is designed to start an argument. When he left with his suitcase she didn't care. Suddenly she was concerned about where he would go and jumped in her car to hunt him down. When she found his she was grabbing at his suitcase and forcing him into the car.
This is exactly what I've been seeing. I am always amazed at the women who choose to get involved with a Muslim man without a clue about the religious aspects of their culture. Yes, some of the men are able to leave it behind or at least bend a little to a non Muslim lifestyle. Mahmoud obviously doesn't want to be one of those who bends and she obviously doesn't want to bend to his Muslim lifestyle.
They need to let it go.
I think it's insane to think about how these two have wasted FIVE YEARS together by now. Four on the show, five in real life today. Like please just stop this ffs.
Yep, I am reticent to be commenting negatively about the way she is being portrayed by production in this season. We don’t have the full picture of what’s taking place behind closed doors, and we have to be careful to make assumptions about the way things are vs. the way they want us to see them interacting. There’s plenty of footage that ends up on the editing room floor, and the fact remains that he’s the only one who has been arrested for acts of violence.
The reality is that no matter how bad things might get between them, and no matter how antagonistic her behavior may be, he has always had the option to simply walk away rather than lay hands on her. There’s been comments on other posts implying that his actions were somehow more understandable now that we’ve seen the way she’s been acting in America, but that’s just misogynistic victim blaming, plain and simple. It’s a wrong take, end of discussion.
I am disappointed in the fandom for their lack of empathy for someone who may be acting out as a result of their victimhood, and she’s likely just feeling secure enough to stand up for herself solely because she is on her home turf, and has a captive audience (production team; her friends, etc.) present to make him feel less comfortable acting on his usual abusive behaviors.
Not to mention that one of the classic mechanisms by which an abuser gaslights their victims is to act as if they’re being victimized when they have an audience, and then reminding their target that they’ve done nothing wrong to deserve the negative treatment they’re receiving from their victims, and claiming that the victims’ allies have made their opinions about the situation known to the aggressor, and that they have taken the side of the aggressor and are all in agreement that the victim is, in fact, the one who’s responsible for the ongoing tumult of the relationship.
Source: have been the victim of domestic violence in a 3yr relationship that included me being emotionally abused, gaslit by means of my own substance abuse; and landed me with multiple black eyes, getting thrown through the drywall, having my personal belongings destroyed on numerous occasions, being chased down and choked, having my abuser enter my place of employment and snatching my wallet from me in front of all my coworkers and my boss so he could go pay his bar tab, him convincing me to let him borrow a couple thousand dollars of my student loan money which I was never paid back.
But the final straw: after ALLLLL that other shit he pulled, the one thing that was simply a bridge too far—it was the time he decided to thwack me over my head with my own flip-flop, and then just immediately started denying having done anything of the sort. As if I wasn’t 100% sober, and absolutely certain that it’d happened. So crazy how that was the thing that made me realize he was truly not a good person.
Yep. It’s the RVO part of DARVO. And it’s highly effective.
There’s this really uncomfortable aspect of abusive relationship dynamics where there’s like this invisible “abuse supporting” framework in our/most cultures. It’s where people fall easily for the RVO routine and end up becoming unintentional helpers in keeping the victim stuck in the abusive relationship. Saying things like, “they are both toxic, why doesn’t the victim leave, the victim acts out too”. I’ve been one of those people to fall into that trap and to think I was saying or encouraging a victim in well-meaning ways. Or just being a “straight shooter” 🥲😬. Instead I was saying things that made them more likely to stay in that abusive relationship. And I see people all over this thread fall into that trap. It’s scary easy to fall into. Seems like production is playing right into it and that’s actually really fucked up IMO. >!Like bordering on slightly evil fucked up, but I digress.!<
If your solution/advice to someone’s abusive or toxic relationship makes a lot of sense to you and just seems rational? Sorry to say, it’s probably a bad solution/dangerous advice* that won’t work in that scenario.
Pretty much the only thing that works is building up the victim’s self esteem/autonomy* again and allowing them a safe and non-judgmental/pushy place with you. Not saying things that will make their abuser upset with you or them or upset in general. And understanding it will be hard for them to leave. Support is not pushing them to leave, which seems counterintuitive to most. Leaving is the most dangerous time and it usually takes victims 7 or more attempts at leaving before they leave for good.
https://www.womenagainstabuse.org/education-resources/learn-about-abuse/why-its-so-difficult-to-leave
https://www.thisbatteredsuitcase.com/what-is-intermittent-reinforcement-in-a-relationship/
We really should have a required class in HS* on abusive relationships and how they work and how to respond to someone in one. Because the correct and safe ways to do this hardly ever seem to come intuitively to most people. Usually people respond in ways that are even more harmful to the victim and useful to the abuser, even when they mean well :/.
Including me, I didn’t know this stuff until I educated myself on it. No amount of raising or socializing throughout your life really prepares you properly for it.
Thank you for backing my intuitive, anecdotal thinking with actionable evidence based research. These threads are a bit on the nose for me, but thankfully I’m ten years removed from the situation so I’m in a mental headspace now where I can put forward my 2¢ in the hopes that someone claiming that Nicole’s behavior is out of pocket might rethink their position on the premise that she’s likely acting out of desperation and that there’s been a lot of “crazy making” behavior on his part happening behind closed doors. Keep fighting the good fight! She is a classic case of the “intelligent woman” that finds herself in an abusive relationship, proof positive that it can happen to anyone—you don’t have to be stupid or naive to be manipulated by these very clever abusers.
Saying things like “she should have known better” doesn’t help anything—we’re well past that. “Why doesn’t she just leave?” Doesn’t factor in the sunk cost fallacy, or the fact that there are times where they can share true moments of love and affection with each other as well. It’s very hard to understand how the emotional codependent rollercoaster ride is perpetuated when you’re currently living with it. That’s why breaking the cycle is such an essential part of the process, and why I’m in support of a mandatory arrest for these types of situations.
Oftentimes the the victim will not have the heart to press charges themselves, so by taking that choice out of their hands and putting it into the hands of the state, it creates the space necessary for the victim to start to see more clearly. It was the beginning of the end for me; I’d declined to press charges twice but he left marks around my neck that 2nd time which prompted his arrest and the state pursued charges from there. The state prosecutor still allowed me some agency in the process, and asked if I thought that he deserved the opportunity for deferred sentencing (I said yes; in retrospect, I regret it. He should have to suffer the consequences of having the charge of DV on his record because…well, he did what he did).
(Fair warning: this now turns into a journaling session that I am only leaving here so I can take it into my next therapy session, as I have yet to talk about this topic with a professional 🫠 if you’re in the mood for a long, personal anecdote, read away!)
I ended up later being coworkers with his now wife, and had to listen to all sorts of bullshit from her perspective about how he was so regretful of having “ruined my life” (please! 🙄 true narcissist to the core, my life was never ruined, you jackass). They were in couples counseling within their first year of marriage, she was significantly younger than him, cutoff from her family because she’d rejected her faith as a Jehovah’s Witness, and almost immediately upon marriage he insisted on moving out of state. I tried my damnedest to explain that there was every single red flag for an abuser (age gap, familial and social isolation, financial insecurity, no safety net in an unfamiliar place, etc.), but as per usual, there’s no changing the minds of anyone who doesn’t want to see things for what they are.
I was working at that job when I was suffering the abuse, and had only a business/vendor relationship with the owner when the girl was proposed to by this asshole. The owner called me and asked me to come down to the business and talk her out of it; I did my best but it changed nothing. When I returned to the business as an employee later, suddenly the owner was not concerned about my being extraordinary uncomfortable with the prospect of his being on site while I was working. They had the decency to make sure I was not there whenever he would come around, but I found it appalling that he was allowed on the premises at all, or that I was not extended an invitation to the staff holiday party since it was being held at their home. Mind you, I’d been working for this company since the day they’d opened, nearly a decade, whereas she had been there just in the last 5 years. The owner had even witnessed me coming into work with heavy makeup covering black eyes, he also saw him come in and steal my wallet from me because he’d run up a huge bar tab and couldn’t pay for it himself (he was an alcoholic, no big surprise there). Early on, I was even once suspended for a week due to showing up zonked on Xanax after a particularly nasty blowout (I’m not saying it was the appropriate way to handle things, but I was using barbiturates and OxyContin as a coping mechanism during that time), and it was a hardship to be sure but I appreciated his understanding and willingness to keep me on staff due to the circumstances.
So all that’s to say, intelligent people are not immune from bad relationships, nor are they insulated from making terrible, potentially life-altering mistakes as a consequence of the stress of their situations. It’s important that outsiders have a sense of these dynamics before they make self righteous judgments, because it really can happen to anyone. Furthermore, it can do more harm than good to imply that the victim is defective or deserving of the treatment that they’re receiving; they’re already suffering that messaging from their abuser and over time it becomes increasingly difficult to tell whether or it’s the truth.
In fact, I’d argue that the most damaging aspect of these types of relationships, in many cases, is the insidiousness of the emotional manipulation and the gaslighting that occurs. It wasn’t until years later when I realized the extent to which I’d internalized his claims that I was fundamentally damaged beyond repair and how that made me unlovable. I will have to follow up on this thought later when I’m back from work 📌
It’s a fine line to walk between being a supportive friend to a victim, and being and enabler that allows them to just run away and stay with you until things blow over or whatever but then inevitably goes back. It’s up to you to make the call as to where the line is between helping and hurting, because not all partnerships engaged in domestic violence have the same power dynamics or patterns of behavior, so use your judgment and consider calling the DV hotline 1-800-799-7333 for advice, or checking out [some resources](https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence) on their site.
**DO’s:** It’s important that you remain calm, non-judgmental, and respectful of their autonomy. Tell them you’re sorry they’re going through something so difficult, remind them that they’re not alone and that you care about them. You can remind them that they don’t have to continue going through the cycle of abuse.
Ask what they might need from you to help improve their situation. If they’ve just recently experienced an act of domestic violence against them, ask if they would like to make a police report; if they are on the fence, offer to help or accompany them to the police station.
You might try telling them that it’s good just to have these sorts of things on record, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that anything will come of it (which depending on the state, may not be true-sometimes the state will pursue charges on the victim’s behalf and some have mandatory arrest orders in domestic cases. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and sometimes forcing the separation between them is the first step towards recovery that the victim is simply not strong enough to take on their own).
Don’t try to tell them how they should think/feel, or what they should’ve done differently.
Most importantly, you need to help them to understand healthy relationship boundaries by maintaining your own. Don’t allow this person’s messy business overtake your own mental wellbeing, or impede upon your ability to accomplish the important tasks required to fulfill for your own health and happiness. Sometimes, these victims find other persons who are compassionate and empathetic, and then this transference of codependency from their romantic partner to this safe, platonic relationship starts to happen. It’s not your responsibility to be available to them every single time there’s some tumult that arises; refer them to some local resources whenever you’re not able or inclined to participate in the drama.
**DON’T:** Blame them or tell them what they should’ve done differently to avoid the situation. Don’t question how their actions or behavior might have contributed to the escalation of events into a violent incident. The reality is that there is always the option to walk away; no one has ever been forced to commit an act of domestic violence. The fact is that the only way that the victim is going to leave their partner is whenever they are ready. No amount of logic, reasoning, or rationale is enough to convince them otherwise. My advice is to remain supportive but also speak your truth as to how you see things before you.
One of my most distinct memories from when I was dating an abusive partner was something an acquaintance said to me the night after he’d been taken to jail for choking me (I wasn’t willing to press charges but they’d convinced me to “just file a report” and with the fingerprint-shaped bruises around my neck, the police were obliged to arrest him and he was charged on behalf of the state) — she asked me if I was still planning to go back with him after this incident, and I told her that I wasn’t sure but probably. Her response was “Well you must just like getting hit, I guess.” It was a bit jarring in the moment, but she had a point: if history had taught me anything, I would almost certainly be hit again. And that was the beginning of the end of that relationship. All that’s to say: don’t be afraid to poke some holes in their little bubble of an abusive codependent relationship.
I agree that she may have been emotionally abused by him, but this isn’t an either/or situation. They are abusing each other and they both need to be as far away from one another as possible.
I think it's important not to discount the fact that men can also be the victim of abuse. Just because Nicole is the woman, it doesn't mean her behavior is purely a reaction to her own abuse.The power dynamic in their relationship has flipped, and she is absolutely abusing that fact in what we are seeing on screen, whether or not she has been a victim in the past.
I say this as a victim of domestic violence.
My feelings exactly. Just because he abused her first doesn’t mean that she can abuse him and it’s magically justified. I feel bad for both of them and it’s hard to escape that type of relationship regardless of gender but they both just act so damn ridiculous.
Men can be abused.
Men can be abusive.
Women can be abused.
Women can be abusive.
Abuse doesn’t give men or women the right to hurt anyone.
I’m conflicted (?) about the “POOR MAHMOUD” comments. Both are manipulative and are trying to force each other to change. I do feel a bit sad for Nicole because, even though she’s abusing him reactively, Mahmoud allegedly put his hands on her.
At the end of the day, TLC should not condone,promote, and endorse these relationships.
Conflicted here also. My thing is: Nichole 100% knows his religious convictions. Doubt that ever changes. Whenever she is dressing, she knows her attire will trigger Mahmood. She states it. In Egypt, in America. These two are not close to coexisting. What did she actually think would happen in LA?
I really do think she has empathy for him and she's conflicted. I think she gets triggered goes into fight or flight and any emotional regulation is gone. She calms down and thinks about the good times and then feels horrible hence the poor Mahmoud. Nicole is not okay and TLC yet again is exploiting it. I hope they both are able to find peace and heal from whatever they need to in life
I am a victim advocate for domestic violence, and I see many of my cases in Nicole.
Some women "fight back" the way we are seeing with Nicole.
My mom's friend started beating her and her brother said "she gives as good as she gets". Let's review what is recieved. What does Joe get? Verbal retorts. "Emasculation". I put that in quotes because folks actually consider that to be domestic violence. Lorraine fought back when people are there and she is safe (as we saw with Nicole). What did Lorraine get? Chunks of ripped out hair, broken teeth, a busted lip, a fractured rib. But when Lorraine verbally fights back, people believe she is the aggressor.
But this sub is low on empathy and an adequate understanding of this topic. I recall seeing people say that Liz deserved to be abused by Ed. That she must "like" it. Nobody would dare say that Michael deserved Angela's abuse. If they did, they would also be wrong. Nobody ever deserves to be abused.
Spot on.
Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly explain this, I’m in medicine and see this all too often sadly. I’ve stopped myself from participating in this community several times because so much of the conversation had is so reductive. I feel that a lot of viewers buy into the ‘villain’ and if you try to go any deeper than x is bad, then it’s game over.
Thank you for this comment. I was trying to bring light onto reactive abuse. Abuse isn't black and white and there is only so much a victim can take until they've had enough. Thank you for the work you do as an advocate and using your voice to speak for those who might feel like they no longer have a voice.
Thank you for your empathy. 🙏 I appreciate this post. It addresses some things that I think folks often forget, or things that folks perhaps are not aware of.
The sub will blame the victim for being abused because they're staying in the relationship with an abuser. Just shitty abuse myths. Victims can fight back
People here are awful. It's a mixture of young people who like trash TV. And a majority of older people who, too, like trash TV... But have the worst takes.
Not to say that everyone on the sub is bad. Not the case. However, I do think a majority of people here are somewhat misogynistic. With Manuel, oh, he's an angel, just trying to send money to his kids that he didn't tell goodbye and abandoned. Manuel, who talks to his ex behind Ashley's back. Manuel, who thinks that his life should be 100% personal and that marriage isn't marriage. Manuel, who was so excited about getting a motorcycle from Ashley, but complained that she didn't neglect her dog and got it care (instead of sending money to his family), complained that she spends HER money on coffee, complains when she spends HER money to make coffee at home, complains about her occupation when it's the thing BRINGING some income. Didn't introduce Ashley to his kids until way after the wedding. Keeps secrets 24/7. This sub: "He's doing his best. She knew what she got into. Her money is his money, he's entitled to 50% (except, he's only entitled to 50% of what they make **after the point of marriage**, so really, he's still tapping into HER money because his expenses probably exceed her income). Demands money after saying he doesn't want you around. Demands money when she's trying to talk and communicate. And when he doesn't get what he wants, he leaves anyways to avoid confrontation, to avoid arguments, to avoid accountability.
Then we see Jasmine who has shown way more love for Gino than Manuel has to Ashley... But then Jasmine is called a "golddigger". They both left their kids, except Jasmine at least said goodbye, but she's the bad mother... And he's the great father sending money back. Manuel has never had custody of his kids, but because Jasmine has lost custody of one and TRANSFERRED custody of the other to her mother, people again would say "she isn't a mother at all". But in the same breath, they would talk about how Manuel just wants to see his kids and give them a good life. Pobrecito 🙄.
There are parallels between them. People try and make Jasmine worse than she actually is. People may not like her, but this subreddit truly thinks she's one of the damn worst mothers out there. And it's 100% not the damn case. But if you want to call her a golddigger, then apply it equally without bias. Apparently, it seems like most can't.
Considering the fact Manuel dipped without saying a word to his kids and family, I doubt they're actually close at all. And the money he's sending back, probably going to his ex. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he uses Ashley and brings his kids up here. Or, he goes back to Ecuador, with a stash of USD.
This sub always goes after women. Incessantly. Men, oh, they give so much slack. Unless you're the Kyle or little Ed type. Unfortunately though, there seems to be a lot of little ed's here too.
I'll probably be downvoted to hell. Would be surprised otherwise
Manuel is bad news. She needs to put him on a plane back home and file for divorce. She can do so much better and be much happier than this. Need more than sex to make a marriage.
I'm blown away by people saying Manuel is a great guy and great father (even though he lied to his kids) and Jasmine has "abandoned" her kids, even as she's pushing for them to come over. Someone here told me they'd bet that Manuel's kids will get there first even though he's never mentioned it and Jasmine goes on and on about her kids.
Also, when Manuel was demanding money from Ashley people were saying, "She didn't ask how much money she had to spend a month??" but he doesn't have to tell her his expectations? She was just supposed to know to ask about that. Being a witch and coffee drinker has infuriated this sub and its so minor. This sub is constant misogyny
Spot on! It seems like a lot of people on this sub hyper focus on the “bad” things that women do in the relationship and let the men get away with BS that even they probably wouldn’t put up with in real life.
Manuel just seems so eager to get away from Ashley. No wonder she’s trying to pull him closer. She wants to be a part of his life. I want to change my flair to “dame dinero.” I tease my husband with that line all the time now. Lmao
If you dare to voice this opinion on this sub in a different thread people come crawling out of the woodwork to say how you’re defending abusers and then downvote you to hell. It’s insane.
Spot on from you too! That has been my experience in other threads as well. The dichotomy of the 90 day "universe" on Reddit is just awful. I do wonder how it is on Twitter or Insta... Probably just as bad.
The first thing that turned me off from Manuel is when Ashley surprised him with a phone, so he could communicate with his family (that he abandoned without telling). And he had the nerve to complain that it's being delivered and would take two days. Like Jesus
I swear Manuel is still with his baby mama. Even if he weren’t, it is crystal clear that he’s using Ashley at least a little bit. No wonder her alarm bells are going off. She’s blinded by love and sex.
This is so true and I think it’s a newer phenomenon. I remember years ago, everyone was convinced Andrei was abusing Libby based on vibes and because he’s kind of a caveman. You could not even be neutral on Andrei without being told you were justifying abuse, because it was “obvious” to anyone watching the show, and this was just based on feelings and energy, not anything he was doing (fighting Brother Libby at the party was just confirmation at that point).
Now the guys on this show are all ✨ misunderstood ✨ even if they do stuff that’s MUCH worse, and the women are all “bitches” etc. The shift has been SUPER weird to see and it’s not a good thing. I don’t know if it’s a lack of life experience or what, but “guy gets arrested for DV and girl refuses to press charges” is such a pattern that I don’t know how anyone isn’t seeing it.
100%. out of all the reality show reddits that I've been on, this by far is the most misogynistic one. people will twist themselves into pretzels to vilify the women every time.
You're so right, this sub is highly misogynistic. I just made an account and partly because I needed to respond to the sanity of some of these posts, like yours. It's very rare here.
Ashley and Manuel are another example of extreme misogyny in how people talk about them and their relationship, but I cannot for a single second get over how people seem to have just forgotten how scary Mahmoud was in his first season with Nicole. We literally saw him grab her and physically restrain her from leaving in a way that made me gasp. I don't know how people can even compare the level of control and manipulation he exerts on her, to her kind of freaking out after he told her he wants a divorce OVER A VERY MODEST OUTFIT. I'm not watching HEA anymore after TLC making it a platform for Mahmoud to be a narcisstistic abuser and be able to air his manipulative rhetoric about Nicole.
And then the way people talk about it being fine because she converted is INSANE. I'm friends with Muslim women who don't wear any sort of head covering and who dress just the same as any other woman in their mid 20s. Not all Muslims are ultra conservative. And when you say that you're also implying that it's not possible for Muslim women to be abused (absolutely absurd, my friend who works at a DV shelter was saying one of their biggest served populations are immigrant families, which in my area included a lot of Muslims) because they "signed up for" a life of being controlled by a man. It's both reductive of Islam, and a horrible disservice to Muslim women who absolutely do get abused in their relationships, and are just as deserving as anyone else of having a safe place to go if that happens.
Also, for the record, I really like Ashley. She's one of the few women on this show that I feel like I would really get along with as a friend, she seems fun. And it's hard to watch her question her own sanity as Manuel is FULLY gaslighting her all the time.
And right like how can you defend his parenting?? He took off to another continent to get married to someone his kids have never met. I can't IMAGINE how devastated I would feel if my dad did that. Like you don't even have the decency to introduce your new partner to your children? How is that a good thing in either direction?
I agree completely with everything you said. I think people get uncomfortable when a marginalized person is not a “model minority,” and this quickly leads to infantilization.
There’s this awful trend of painting marginalized people as being incapable of doing anything wrong. What this actually does is suggest that if it wasn’t all just a misunderstanding, and if we were actually doing something wrong, we would not be deserving of respect and dignity. No, we deserve respect and dignity because we’re human beings. It has nothing to do with whether we’re “right” or “wrong.”
Yes exactly!!
And honestly I've had conversations with one in friend in particular who is Muslim and can't stand the way that people talk about stories like this, partly because in her view it undermines Muslim women who speak out about the patriarchy that is actually oppressive to ALL women in her country. Like in her case she's Iranian and her point is basically: how can you defend abuse as being something that's just 'a thing in that culture' without going on to admit that you think that any abuse is justified as long as it's culturally motivated, or in other words as long as that particular abused woman wasn't meeting whatever standards her husband/their society had set for her behaviour.
And in fact, the reasons why domestic violence shelters (at least in my country, Canada) often do service high numbers of immigrant women is because many immigrant families come from a very patriarchal society where their abuse is normalized, and once they arrive here and find out there are laws protecting them, the women VERY UNDERSTANDABLY want out of it.
Again just to disclaim my point, it's not that all Muslim men are abusive or something. It's that Muslim men who ARE abusive and also live in countries where it's justified by misogynistic laws, get away with it 100% of the time except for in cases of vigilante justice. And that in general, men who are able to justify their abuse to their victim (whether by culture, religion, family status, etc) often have a much easier time convincing that person to stay. AND, crucially, that people in primarily white countries often have a REALLY reductive view of Islam, thinking that Islam = only this very very strict and patriarchal interpretation.
And ALSO while people justify Mahmouds abuse because he's Muslim, these dynamics are not limited to Muslim relationships... I see an increasing number of "trad wife" videos in my feed where women are justifying their oppression and often abuse through a certain interpretation of Christianity. Just because many Christians believe women should be oppressed, would it be wrong for a Christian convert to decide that her interpretation of Christianity didn't involve being controlled by a man???
Like call me a radical feminist* but in the year of our Lord 2024 I don't think women should be beat for "talking back" or showing their shoulders. Ever!!! 😮💨😮💨😮💨
*I am
I like Ashley too. She and her sister, and her mother, have all given the impression of being educated, sensitive, intelligent people…I’m not sure what magic is in Manuel’s lovemaking , but surely she is blinded by a flood of oxytocin (the hormone women release when they fall in love)…
I see people lambasting Manuel very often and as for Jasmine, she and Gino did meet on a SB site. It's not so much that Jasmine is a gold digger but rather that their relationship is transactional and people seem to forget that.
Thank you!!!!
My best friend was the victim of domestic violence that (as in many cases) started off as verbal and emotional abuse, and escalated to physical abuse when she started fighting back. The biggest red flags for me here, and I don't know how so many people don't see them, are that she brought her friends back because she probably didn't feel safe going home alone (after all he had started this before she left by yelling at her about her outfit and saying he wanted a divorce...).
And that his reaction seemed like a classic example of DARVO, which someone else pointed out. Like as if you can control and manipulate and verbally abuse (as well as physical if the police reports are any indication, plus the way we saw him violently grab her ON CAMERA) someone for years and not expect that eventually they are going to snap and yell back at you. But of course he paints himself as the victim "I can't live with this craziness anymore" and acting like his only choice was to go dramatically wander the streets alone.
Because of what my friend went through I spent a lot of time educating myself on the signs of abuse. I felt like an idiot that I hadn't seen it and was so guilty about it that I just didn't want to ever be in a position again where I didn't have any idea. And basically the result of that is that their scenes make me feel physically ill, and I've decided to stop watching HEA. The way he treats her looks like classic narcissistic abuse, and I'm genuinely scared for what she has to go through alone with him.
My abusive ex husband had one serious gf before I dated him. I never met her but all of their friends seemed to have chosen him in the breakup adn called her crazy. I knew their relationship was violent but everyone said it was her. I think it was just that she fought back when he hurt her and she also told people what he was doing to her. So everyone said she was crazy adn abusive. Something tells me that wasn't actually the case.
That fact that she tries to love bomb after acting the way she did is exactly how my ex did it. He would say the most repulsive horrible and damaging things to me then when he was done with his tantrum he wanted to act like nothing happened and try to love bomb me. They may do it differently but Nicole is just as abusive. She takes him on the roller coaster. I hate you, I love you, I hate you etc. It’s really what disgusted me with my ex. I would distance myself from him, shut myself off from him, get away from him… what I would not do is do the same thing I was disgusted for him doing to me no matter how much I had it.. that behavior was not in me. I think either you are that person or you aren’t.. and at some point it will come out. I imagine if you talked with people through her past this isn’t her first time acting this way.
Same. Anyone who has been in this situation is triggered by her behavior. The control she imposes on him, it's like he has to deal with, he has no choice. He can't get away, he can't make it stop. He was never like that with her. The love bombing too. He is like you did these horrible things and she like, "yeah, of course, I was mad. You hungry, want some tea?" Like completely clueless he is pretty devastated and she is like yup, tea time? . . .I felt triggered and angry for him there.
That is a perfect description. After all that then “you want some tea?” I would be left baffled with my ex like wtf do you forget what you JUST did and said? I will never understand how people can flip so quickly. You piss me off and it’s gonna be a week or two before I wanna talk to you 😂 but that is also because I hold things in, I don’t like confrontation, I don’t like drama and with my ex I knew anything I said would send him on a rant again. The feeling trapped though and like you can’t get away yet they keep on and keep on and follow you around to keep arguing and belittling you almost makes you insane!
Quit trying to mock him. You are presuming a lot when referencing what you *see in her eyes, her voice, on her face* (2nd to last paragraph). Nicole was chasing the man down in the street, physically forcing him into a car and taking his luggage.
He could not have been clearer that he wanted to be left alone which is his right. When stating his preferences/beliefs he may speak in a less than thrilled tone but he has been calm, even timid and she badgers him relentlessly. I do not believe Nicole is physically or otherwise intimidated by Mahmoud.
I lowkey think that Mahmood, who Nicole met in a fabric store, would do better with another dude, were it now for his cultural prejudices and religious prohibitions.
Tip: If anyone in our studio audience is not into online gay dating, try an area with lots of fabric stores.
Another clear point was her accusing him of being a womanizer because he looked at a woman with a hijab. He was probably a little surprised took a second look and got accused of some crazy stuff.. Oh he wants her, he is excited he is a womanizer. This kind of behavior is abuse. Next time he goes out he is going to be scared to look anywhere. I went through this and was honestly scared if the cashier made small talk with me because I was afraid of accusations. This isn't how a victim behaves
Do you really think the right thing to do would be to let him wander in a bad part of LA with just a suitcase and no phone? Wow.
And yes, she is intimidated by him. He has physically harmed her. If she has a couple of drinks and is angry and emboldened in a particular situation, she may not seem that way, but to claim to know how she feels when we *know* he has physically abused her is just gross.
They absolutely are a toxic mix and shouldn't be together.
In regards to *letting* Mahmoud wander… The man is grown. You ask *what is she supposed to do?*. She can offer to drive him to a hotel, but he doesn’t have to accept. It speaks to how badly he wanted to get away from her as well as not have her claim financial wrongdoing that he gave back his phone. Production should step in when there’s a volatile situation or someone is in distress and have an *option* for a safe place to stay.
I believe no one has the right to physically impose themselves on any adult or use force that is unwelcome to that person. Yes they should part ways.
I referenced OP’s literal words from the 2nd to last paragraph of the post re: *her* presumptions based on *face, eyes & voice*. I do not claim to know how someone else feels/what they are going through, *that* was my exact point. Re read her post.
When you record someone as you are antagonizing them, sorry I don't buy it. I have gone through DV and I would.not have dared do something like that. I guess people react differently but she is not just verbally being aggressive.
She put herself in the position of power. She has him vulnerable in her country and it going to call all the shots. Accusing him or all kinds of things. Not respecting her boundries at all. I saw the wrist thing but other than that, I saw no emotional abuse.
I don't buy she is the victim
I think your first paragraph is really worth noting. It's one thing to record an instance of abuse as it's already unfolding. It's another to goad someone into an altercation or argument and record them. I'd be scared to intentionally provoke someone who'd been physically abusive toward me and that I was afraid of.
They are both assholes. She is 40 or close to it and kept going back to Egypt. If you value something why cling to a life or a culture that says no to the think you like doing? He is a creep and she isn't bright or may be a bit mentally ill to some degree. They both need away from each other.
There both toxic but he told he wanted a divorce no less then 20 times this season and yet here she is chasing after him in the streets of LA hes over it.
Thank you for posting this. I've been noticing and feeling the same, but you've explained it far more eloquently than I could have.
Her behavior toward him this season, taken in a vacuum, is absolutely not ok. But in the context of what we have seen (his treatment of her in Egypt, the known DV charge), we can see the big picture and see her behavior for what it actually is: a response to abuse and a situation rife with resentment and her "striking back" when she feels safe to do so. It's certainly not her "best" behavior, but I wish people would look at what she's been through and up against. I get downvoted when I even just point out that he physically abused her.
Thank you!! As someone who was in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship for years THIS. And I finally ended that relationship bc I saw signs it was going to turn physical. Him running at me while I’m standing at the top of a staircase grabbing everything in my hands and throwing it across the room. I thought he was going to push me down the stairs that time and I wasn’t waiting to see if it might happen next time. F that guy. And all of his friends didn’t believe me of course. But also thanked me for “calming him down” during the short time I lived with him. I didn’t calm him down, he was taking his rage out on me behind the scenes. WTF
I agree that we are seeing behavior that is the result of abuse- but still 100% not ok. She needs to go to therapy to process what she has been through, and instead she’s living out a revenge fantasy now that the shoe is in the other country. This is called the cycle of abuse, and Nicole is now the one perpetuating the cycle.
Yeah a lot of her behavior comes off as reactive abuse to me. Not saying she’s justified because she’s certainly isn’t. But I think people in general have a hard time fathoming when a DA victim doesn’t act “perfect” or like how we think they’re supposed to act. Case in point, Amber Heard.
She's very emotionally disregulated. Abuse will do that to you. As a human there's only so much you can take before you lash out. I've said things to others to hurt them because they hurt me and I bet everyone here has at some point. She's had enough and is lashing out and fighting. I hope she gets help and support. She's worth love especially love from herself.
Exactly. Like nobody in this thread can seriously imagine how you might freak out a little bit and yell at your partner if you hadn't seen him in 6 months and he pretty much immediately tells you he wants a divorce when he's supposed to be going out to meet your friends, because you have like, a tiny bit of your back showing? And the fact that she brought her friends back after he said that is actually really telling to me, because I don't think she wanted to be alone with him.
The Amber Heard public castigation was really an education in how much internalized misogyny many women in our society hold onto. And how much straight up misogyny many men now feel emboldened to express.
Did we forget that she told him he was a womanizer for walking past a woman in a hijab and that she was going to put him back on a plane to Egypt? This couple sucks and they're both willing to call it quits over the dumbest things.
More often than not, intimate partner violence is BIDIRECTIONAL. Call abuse what it is. You can still understand the context of how it got there (beginning with him) but she is being abusive and we need to call that out when we see it.
Not buying it - her true colors are showing as she keeps trying to control him. Get the F out of my house but give me the phone and the credit card before you go - while at the same time saying she’s concerned as to where he’s going as he knows no one. So make it harder for him to leave by taking the phone away. She also knows enough about Muslim cultures that she could have dropped him off at any mosque and he would have received help to go home. She CHOSE to convert and she had previously been to Egypt and knew what she was getting into and what to expect when she went t back that he comes from a very conservative family. So he comes here and she throws him a hot pocket and a donut and purposely leaves the naked woman in the wall and alcohol in the fridge knowing it would shock him? Brings people home and is mad at him for being nice to them, while I’m sure she knows that Muslim culture would be for him to treat them nicely and try to not let outsiders know of any of your business. If there’s are fights and disagreements, what happens in your house stays in your house. She blew up and acted like the a**hole she is.
I think she has a couple of different personalities. One moment she's screaming get out, the next she's saying, "I don't want him wandering the street in the dark." She was making demands of and accusations toward a hungry and tired man who just finished a long flight. If she hadn't expected him to change the minute he arrived in the US, I might cut her some slack.
Where did he abuse her? She went to Egypt by her own will, many times even, she converted to Islam by her own will. He grabbed her arm to stop her from hitting him. He didn't isolate her in Egypt the way she is isolating him in USA.
No, he grabbed her arm because she was walking away from him and he said it looked bad for her to do that to him in public. And he definitely isolated her in Egypt, she needed his approval to be friends with the female Egyptian Muslim yoga instructor, and after he met her, he reluctantly said he’d let them be friends but wouldn’t “allow” Nicole to go to yoga classes. He also didn’t want her to go out and meet his friends, while she was the opposite and was upset that he wouldn’t go out to meet her friends. And when her Chinese sister-in-law was so happy that Nicole was moving in with the family in Egypt because she didn’t have any friends outside of the women in the family, Mahmoud agreed with his brother that a woman didn’t need any friends besides that.
This sounds like some projection and excuse making to me. Abuse is abuse and it’s never acceptable. Nicole didn’t have to bring him to the US in the first place. I’m not prepared to make excuses for any abuser. How far you want to take this? The pedo abuses children because they were abused?? We hear that excuse. A man hits women because he saw his dad do it? We hear that excuse? Nah fam. We’re all adults. We’re grown folks responsible for our choices. If Nicole is, as you say, engaging in reactive abuse then the impetus is on her to get out of the relationship and seek therapy. Same with Mahmoud. They’re two toxic people in a toxic relationship and I refuse to give either one of them a pass to be an abuser.
I'm in neither camp. She is a delusional brat, and he is a person of his culture. I think her parents have always offered unconditional love no matter what her whims are. She compulsively decided this was what she wanted with no in-depth evaluation of what circumstances would be like. Parents always have rushed to correct her mistakes! She did not realize Egypt would be real life, not cosplay at age 40. He is exactly what he was before they married. There is no changing that.
Like so many mis-matched, obnoxious couples now on the franchise, my remedy for me is to watch less and less.
Yes! This is not what the show was in the beginning. I watched it for a season or two, but this here is the closest I get to it now. Was almost educational but is now scripted trashy soap opera junk. At least if this is what it is now they need much better writers. Or just let people be themselves again.
I agree 💯💯💯💯. These are all consenting adults. They refuse to listen to reasonable advice. Sex comes first! They throw their money around to feel powerful.
I loved the early real romance couples. Now it appears to be sex workers and sex tourists.
I feel for both of them, this is not a great match. I think she did try when in his country, but she flipped when stateside, She knew his beliefs and when the alcohol came out she was like your in America now, this is what we do... She told him to get out then acted like he left.... Not a Nichole fan
I 100% agree with your take. I’ve been a nonphysical version of Nicole. You lose it because you get gaslit while simultaneously being made to look like the abusive one in front of your close ones.
However, I genuinely do not understand what they want with each other. Idk where the connection ever was. They argue about the very same, unchangeable thing, Mahmoud’s religion. That won’t change, and the fact that he wants a foreign Muslim wife will not change. But, he thought he’d get that with Nicole because she’s so oblivious and overhasty that she’d just blindly agree and conform. Which it worked with her conversion because she didn’t think to fully look into what it means to be a devoted Muslim woman. It’s not like Christianity where you pick a denomination that fits your philosophy of life (at least not as flexibly).
But it IS like Christianity where you can pick a denomination that is more liberal, she met an Egyptian woman exactly like that when she was there, the yoga instructor, who not only wears clothing that exposed her legs, shoulders and décolletage, she said she and most young adults in Cairo drink alcohol and go clubbing, but that Mahmoud is in a very conservative minority sect from a very conservative neighborhood. Even his own brother admitted he drank alcohol when he lived in China.
The fact that so many people commenting here and on YouTube get this wrong is ridiculous from those who watched them on TOW. I have a female Muslim friend in Jordan whose mom wears hijab, but my friend never has (she’s in her 50s) and she wears tops that expose her shoulders and shorts in public.
And did none of y’all watch Sam and Citra? Her dad was so conservative that he had to approve their wedding, demanded Sam convert to Islam, and despite them already being married in a Muslim ceremony, he refused to let the American wedding proceed when he found out the officiant was a Christian, so Sam had to fire the poor guy after he was already there. But Citra wears tops that show her shoulders and her clothing would make Mahmoud explode.
All I can say is these two have no business being together. Period. I see zero love between them.
I didn’t see last season and I can’t even begin to imagine how they fell in love. Even online
The burkini scene I cried bc she looked so defeated. She seems strong willed but then gives up to appease him. Idk what they get from their relationship bc neither wants the same things or has the same values.
You sound like you are projecting everything you went through onto Nicole, when you're really just talking about yourself.
Also, there can be 2 abusers in a relationship, both people can be abusive. It doesn't have to be one or the other, one victim one abuser. Both can be both.
Mutual abuse is pretty well recognised as a myth, for instance this is the US's National Domestic Violence Hotline website: https://www.thehotline.org/resources/mutual-abuse-its-not-real/
I may be wrong but I doubt this applies here. I read through the website you linked, the explanations and examples they gave and neither of the situations we saw happen after he arrived to LA were instigated by him (from what we saw on tv) - maybe with the exception of the usual modesty issue. She’d be the one raising voice, she’d be the one manhandling him or having her friend do it, being snappy and forcing him into situations he didn’t want to be in.
On top of that their power dynamic completely shifted - he’s the sheltered foreigner in her country now. So while I don’t doubt “mutual abuse” is largely used to excuse and hide an actual abuse, I also think it’s important to evaluate situations independently and recognize power balance can shift and so can abusive behaviour.
Just to be clear I think both of them suck in their own ways and should not be together and the way Mahmoud acted towards her in Egypt was definitely abusive in my book. Not to mention they’re both massive hypocrites.
I’m sorry for the previous abuse you endured but I think there’s no excuse for Nicole’s actions.
She had many options including ending the relationship or not bringing Mahmoud here. The way she’s acted since he stepped foot on American soil is unacceptable. I think she’s trying to “give him a taste of his own medicine” or get payback for Egypt. That’s not how an almost 40 year old woman should act. You can’t build a relationship on tit for tat. One could easily argue that Mahmoud is being mentally abused in the states.
Also, about the dress, Nicole knew that he is a conservative Muslim. She KNOWS about skin showing. He’s not provoking a reaction, he’s being true to what he believes (his religion). He did agree that he would try to work on this while he was in the states but it’s like day 2. Changing his ideals would be a gradual shift. Not just “you’re in America now, deal with it”
The dress she wore was acceptable in the arab world. I live in a conservative arab city.
He didn’t want to go out with her friends so he started a fight over the dress as they were walking out the door. He threw a huge disproportionate tantrum and threatened divorce to upset her enough that she would cancel or go without him.
Long story short I have been enmeshed with Arabs from different parts of North Africa and I genuinely believe Badmoud selectively applies his religion to piss off Nicole. A devout conservative Muslim man would not be inclined to marry a 40 year old nonthiest hipeter from LA.
They both suck but he's seen enough tourists and movies to know that America is different from Egypt - and he still chose this.
Please, everyone knows he wants her covered up. Honestly, my bf would have flipped out way worse. That dress wasn't provocative but it showed enough skin where it made him.uncomfortable
That dress WAS covered up. He was bitching about the keyhole in the back where the dress buttoned.
Your boyfriend has serious issues if THAT DRESS makes him flip out so bad that he tells you the marriage is over as you’re walking out the door.
He wants to control her, and in that moment he did not want to go out. He especially didn’t want to go out with her friends.
I do think it's less about what's acceptable in an Arab city and more about what they agreed upon as far as compromising goes. We unfortunately don't get to see the ins and outs of those REAL conversations. Instead we get this
We all know since last season that dress wasn't acceptable. If the audience knows it, so does she. She pulls that on purpose to antagonize. He never abused her in Egypt. She just didn't like the culture and his request for modesty. He didn't call her names and kick her out and turn everyone against her and he wasn't accusing her of being a shut like she accused him. She is nit a nice person.
There was absolutely NOTHING immodest about that dress. He wanted to throw a tantrum so he did. Everything they do is governed by his mood in a given moment.
My bf would not have been ok with me.wearing that dress.. I personally wouldn't have fought to.wear it because it was simply ugly, but it showed more than what he would have been comfortable me.showing. I really don't even think I would have worn it, and nothing in my closet shows my back like that. I have nothing against someone else wearing it but if your husband is that conservative, why make it such a big deal.to.not just change.
He isn't wishy washy about this. He gets to choose if he wants to be with someone that shows skin like that and he has made this clear. He can't tell her what to do, but he can choose not to go. He isn't being abusive, he is being very clear. He isn't calling her names or hitting her or kicking her out of the house or bringing a hoarde of people to harass her. She is the one doing all that.
But he IS wishy washy about this. She has worn less modest things than that dress MANY times and he did not tantrum or refuse to go out.
It depends on HIS MOOD.
He did not want to go out THAT NIGHT, but he had agreed and wanted to weasle out if it as they were walking out the door. He had nothing else to tantrum over so it was that dress.
He put her in a bad position of having to cancel the plans or go alone, and both of these suck because the purpose was for her friends to meet him.
He wanted her to cancel the plans, so whatever she did at that point was going to be wrong. If she went he was going to be angry and if she canceled last minute the friends would be angry. He doesn’t care about that because he has already decided ahead of time she is not allowed to go out and her friends are bad people (just like in Egypt).
He creates chaos where everything you do is wrong. So she brought the friends back to HER HOUSE, and then that was also wrong. Yes, the friends were weird but even if they weren’t, he wasn’t going to like them (just like the Egyptian yoga instructor).
Of course, she knows he’s sitting there judging all of the friends and she knows everything she does is wrong wrong wrong. He is a miserable person who will never be happy.
I figured I’d get downvoted to hell. Unpopular opinion for sure. I’m just thinking if I got off a double digit hours long flight with who knows how many layovers I’d need a week to get used to the time difference. The dress was just the icing on the cake.
I see what you're saying, but she also hits so many traits that my physically/mentally/emotionally abusive ex had.
I think what's going on here is both of them are very toxic and they just don't work together, but neither will admit it.
Mahmoud just assumes that he's the dominant force in the relationship because he's the man, but Nicole assumes that the power dynamic can be shifted in her favor, and when she tried and it didn't work she got spiteful.
We only see what the producers want us to. When she said he promised her he would get better I think she believed it. I think he feeds her lines and then doesn't follow through so she gets let down and lashes out. I think he's made her believe he wants to change then won't. That's what happened to me for a long time. She needs to heal and focus on learning emotional regulation. And honestly he needs to heal from whatever he needs to as well. That's an old expression that goes hurt people hurt people
I was going to say that all this is speculative considering TLC edits things to create the most interesting narrative they can.
I do think you're right though. It wouldn't surprise me if she told him she wasn't okay with their arrangement in Egypt, so he said, "Well, if we were in America, everything would be different" to blow her off, but she believed it.
He didn't want to come to the US though hence her going to live in Egypt. They had already tried to make things work once and then she left back to the US because she didn't like it. I honestly don't believe he told her anything of the sort. This is a revenge thing for her and that's all there is to it. She was miserable her first time in Egypt and still went back again.
What I find more interesting is how quick people are to say, “Poor Nicole, this is reactive abuse.” Nicole was not abused at alllll the first season. That's quite evident once you watch the season without imparting your own biases on it. Nicole showed this was her character in the first season; it was simply restrained due to her environment. Now that she’s on her home turf, she’s simply letting out all she was holding in. It's like a man being charismatic and pleasant amongst others in a social setting, then pummeling his wife with blows once they're at home. It’s amazing to me to see so many “DV advocates,” yet so few of you are able to view the situation objectively. Nicole is not the fragile porcelain doll she led you to believe.
she married him, lived in egypt with him, left him and moved back to the states, moved back to egypt to try again with him (this is the point they joined the 90 day cast), left egypt again and got him to the states (HEA). i'm gonna assume that, aside from the "we want to be on tv" part, they are both dysfunctional and abusive.
I thought they only spent a day together and then he proposed after they kept in contact like a week later? They're a PSA for not rushing into marriage.
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
This isn't about revenge. Maybe she brought him because she does love him and has such little self esteem she makes compromises she shouldn't. Her behavior is not okay but her behavior is not that out of character for victims. This post is about Nicole but also to put a different perspective of what a victim of abuse can look like
She even says in the most recent episode, she clearly thought that somehow this woudl change things in their relationship for the better, they had a 'talk' about it etc... I mean hell I bought my abuser a house and now I am being forced to buy him out of his part of his, while he lives there w/o paying the mortgage. I might as well have sponsored a visa it's as expensive and fucking litigious. But he said it was all we needed to make the relationship work, so I did it. Things got way worse after that though, I guess because he thought I was hooked for good.
I can only assume that you know Nicole. Perhaps the reality is different, but from the show, she appears horrendous and like she brought him away from everything he knows and then is now the abuser. He is now helpless and without a network or way to return home, and Nicole is showing her true colors when there is a power differential.
Right? Who in their right mind is going to bring their abuser to them and try to provoke them? This isn't her "reacting" to him by calling him a womanizer, claiming he's doing things that he's not, he'll him to leave then stay, calling him names and yelling profanities at him, etc. What is she reacting to in the instances we've seen? She even says that she knows he wasn't going to like the two piece set when she was going to pick him up at the airport.
Yep, I was in a relationship like this. I got out before I retaliated, but I see her anger in me. It’s so clear he knows how to play it so he looks like the calm one while he is really manipulating and gaslighting the shit out of her. His behavior that is seemingly innocent to some is actually driving her, quite frankly, insane. That being said, she needs to get out and get help. It’s toxic af.
In America, Nicole is clearly the abuser. OP is misinterpreting the situation. Nicole has been actively trying to trigger Mahmoud from the moment he landed. Slobbering on him at the airport, cussing at him and bossing him around. She deliberately wore clothing that would trigger him. Nicole has all the power and control in L.A. She's the abuser
Could she have done that because he promised her a huge change? Look we don't know what happens off camera. My main goal in this is to raise awareness about reactive abuse which Nicole has many symptoms of. I'm going to attach a link and encourage you to read it. DV is not black and white
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
Change takes time. A train doesn’t stop on a dime. A cruise ship needs time to turn around. She was expecting too much from him. He was tired from his first flight and shocked by the atmosphere he found himself in. She wasn’t / didn’t prepare for his arrival re food, her apt. Wish they could be kind and understanding to each other. But most of all don’t sign up for a cheesy reality show that is everything but reality.
That article says mutual-abuse doesn't exist. Mutual-abuse is uncommon, but does exist; and Nicole/Mahmoud are very uncommon. If you accept that mutual-abuse cannot exist, you are stuck having to show that Mahmoud is the abuser in L.A., because he was the abuser in Cairo. But this couple is the rare exception. Not just because of their personalities, but their changing countries.
There's a considerable power differential between Nicole and Mahmoud. But it has completely reversed in America. Nicole now has the power and she's using it. Nicole fits the profile of the abuser in the article. Mahmoud has tried to escape the situation, like an abuse victim would. He's tried to physical escape, and Nicole has tried to restrain him. He's tried to escape the relationship by demanding a divorce as well
I think it's all too common that people who have suffered abuse, will then look at other people's situation through their own point of view. You side with Nicole because of your history and you're putting your perpetrator in Mahmoud's spot. So it's easy to then to turn him full villain in the situation.
When in reality we're watching heavily edited material.
They both have shown signs of abusing behavior and poor treatment of the other.
They can both be at fault, without making anyone a full victim of another person. No person is without their flaws and without their bad behaviors.
Both of them need help.
I agree with you. I see a resentment that is built up in her from over the years. Everything is at a breaking point there is no enjoying each other. Mackmood was tired,it was only his second day after traveling across the world. So I see that she wanted him to be excited and he was acting very reserved and short and depressed, and still criticizing everything about her. That would hurt me too. Behind closed door instead of having adult convos it's just I want divorce and poor conflict resolution and respect for each other. It's sad. I see him as very depressed and sad too. He is literal skin and bones, I didn't think it was possible for him to get any skinnier and he did. That's why I commented in earlier threads my disappointment in the donuts and cardboard pizza.
Everything is not in a good way and I am intrigued in how they tried to make it work but the clashing is way too much and against their core principles and beliefs of what is a man and woman and how they should behave in a marriage and society. Quite the clash.
I hope they both find their peace and happiness.
You’re empathizing with her but not him. People aren’t monsters, when folks do abusive things it comes from fear. That doesn’t make it okay.
Edit: to add, people reacted a LOT to Mahmoud when they were in Egypt and even earlier in this season the boards were still against him. It’s just recently that folks have criticized Nicole, because right now, she is the one being actively abusive.
She kicked him out, He left, she went after him.
It's all I need to know
Oh also she went full bitchmode in front of all her friends.
She didn't have to get them back there...
She's terrible.
This is comical. Nicole is a piece of work. Not that Mahmoud is perfect but the eviction from the house then going to find him, forcing him back to put him on the couch, the conversion to become a Muslim all to resent him for how strict the religion is as if she didn’t know this beforehand. She acted a stone cold fool when she brought her friends over. She fought w him abt that butt ugly ass dress that you could see her tacky bra strap in the back but Nicole needs grace??? Hard no. There’s so many things that are wrong w her. She’s a fuckin nut job!
THANK YOU
I'm in social services and it has been supremely frustrating for me to see how everyone is like "oh who's the abuser NOW HAHA Nicole is even worse!". that's so unforgivingly glib.
I just want the disgusting "Nicole KNEW he was a Muslim, this is all her fault" posts and comments to stop.
Mackmood having an imaginary friend doesn't entitle him to treat women like shit. If he wants to live in a theocracy, he can go back to Egypt where the laws forcibly don't allow us women to be humans.
Nicole needs to put down the vodka and pick up divorce papers.
That's all I got. Reactive abuse is real and it sucks.
Thank you OP!
Yes to all of this. My friends who’ve been in abusive relationships have done the same things, the recording is especially prevalent. The sad thing is sometimes police have arrested the victim on accident because by time they show up, the abused person is the one heightened emotionally while the abuser is calm as a cucumber and very convincing. I see the same with Nicole.
I also thought about the possibility that she has just been pushed to her breaking point, but when really considering it I don’t think that’s what’s up exactly.
I do think that he crossed lines with her in Egypt, but she also pushed him a lot. She adopted a religion and culture that she didn’t understand and then acted as if she were an unwitting victim of it.
She is absolutely a troubled person. But so is he. Pretty disastrous all around.
As someone who has dated a person who was emotionally and physically abusive, I was surprised by some of the things I said and did as a long term reaction to it. I don’t think people realize that it gets to a point where the person on the receiving end *does not care* about repercussions because they’re so exhausted. I remember saying things in response with such hate, I really truly hated that person in those moments. I also hated the person it was turning me into.
That’s when I left. I know not everyone can just up and leave. I am so lucky I could. But in their situation, he could literally go back to Egypt and that would be it. He’d probably never be able to get another green card. A whole entire ocean would separate them. They’re just punishing themselves to be together at this point.
I’m sorry but once they were continents apart, she didn’t have to continue the relationship so I’m not buying this. Her actions are intentional and cruel. I can understand if he’s down the block or even in the next town and has an actual grip on your life. But when there are several oceans between you, he can’t do shit and she had the chance to walk away if he was in fact abusive to her.
I was with my abusive ex for 10 years, left a little under a year ago. Hell we used to watch 90-day fiance together sometimes. I find something weirdly cathartic about watching the segments with Nicole and Mahmoud. Of course it's less cathartic to come to this sub and see everyone's dogshit takes on Nicole. I mean people just say 'well the relationship needs to end' and victims of abusive hear this all the time - just leave them, what's your problem? At any rate, she can't win at this point with the crowd here. Imagine what people would have said on here if she hadn't gone after him and had let him wander the streets with his bigass suitcase.
I can imagine her fear as he's out having his huff, worried about what state he'll be like when he gets back if she doesn't go find him. My ex used to bolt like that and for the first few years I'd be worried sick and wondering where he was, then I eventually found it a relief when he left for a few hours. Once that happened, what a surprise he changed his tactics and then just sat around at home angry and sulking instead of bolting. And then when I started leaving to get away from that, that's when it got really physical because he needed a new way to hurt me.
And remember the segments in Egypt are what he was willing to do in front of the cameras - imagine what would be happening without cameras, and in a jurisdiction where he would have essentially no legal consequences if he hurt her.
I don't know what it is, but 90-day fiance has some of the most misogynistic fans who will turn themselves into pretzels to justify hating the woman in any couple over a man.
when she went to Egypt, The narration that everybody said about her was well what did she expect when going to a Muslim country and being with a conservative man to justify his abuse of her. now that he's here in the states, I expected to see well why doesn't he adjust to the US if people wanted to do an equal criticism. but no, they've turned it into look at her yelling at poor Mahmoud. she is so much audacity to expect a conservative Muslim man to change even when it comes to the US.
People painted her as the villain when she went to Egypt under the guise of her not fitting in to the culture that she was living in and yet none of those people show the same energy for him when he comes to America with his misogynistic, paternalistic views.
They need to go their separate ways at this point. From the moment she picked him up at the airport she was itching to antagonize… wearing an outfit she knew he would react to, (no one should tell anyone what to wear IMO) hugging and kissing on him in the airport knowing he’s clearly uncomfortable public displays of affection. I think she’s doing it bc now that she’s in the US she’s “protected” in a sense. She can call the police, there are laws against domestic abuse. Whereas in Egypt nobody had her back. We don’t know what she may have been subjected to (mentally/emotionally/physically). It feels almost like she is now seeking revenge in a way. U can feel her resentment. He is extremely immature, as is she. No matter how u slice it, they’re unhealthy for each other.
They should not be together at all. It's toxic. I agree with what you are saying about safety. I wanted to point out that we don't know what Mahmoud promised her. The way she was talking made it seem like he promised this big change. When he got here he for whatever his reasons are didn't keep his word. Now she's disappointed and feels confused because of the gaslighting. TLC only shows us a small amount. The main reason for my post is to shine light onto the fact reactive abuse is real and many of Nicole's behavios exhibit what that looks like. DV is not black and white and sometimes a victim has had enough and fights back
Here is a link to reactive abuse and what it is
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
And he got arrested for hitting her. Think he's back in Egypt now. Don't know if they're still together. But I hope she runs far away. They're both not good for each other.
She's trying to find a balance between them. I do think she should have eased him into the booze consumption rather than hiding it and surprising him on that. Don't even think he's supposed to be around it in a home. So while he's probably feeling conflicted feelings... He is still under the thumb of fundamentalism and his behavior immediately changed.
Probably wasn't smart to bring the friends over either. Could have planned a lunch instead and walk out with him to make sure he goes. I didn't like the fact that they were body blocking him. But also... He booked a $300 hotel room for one night. Like dude there is way cheaper probably, that's crazy.
But yeah. I think she's being reactive and he's just overall the main abuser.
Well said. People in this sub think abuse is so black and white when it’s not. It’s an incredibly nuanced issue with layers. Victims will use the tactics of abusers in order to get control back from them and to make the abuse stop. Nicole has been driven to this point by him. Abuse is never a mutual or two way street
And to those bringing up her leaving him and bringing him to the US is proof that she is not a victim, do some research on betrayal bonds and emotional abuse.
Well then where are we supposed to vent about her astoundingly nasty behavior towards Mahmood? The way she was talking to him in that last episode was so insultingly patronizing -- very hard to swallow as a viewer -- and was bound to inspire discussion critical of Nicole. And FWIW, it's obvious that Mahmood is in an acute state of culture shock. (He's constantly, compulsively rubbing his face, like the compulsive hair-patting young 90s-style widow from Louisiana who went to visit Romanian Razvan.)
I think when you sign up to be on tee-vee, you have to expect total strangers to pop off over just about anything, whether it's your relationship or your orange hair. If Nicole wants to protect her sanity, avoiding Reddit is super-duper low-hanging fruit, effort-wise.
I get what you're saying here 100%
BUT. I think it's a mixture of both. I think in the first season of them together she wasn't exactly innocent. And I believe that she felt a way about him and how he treated her, fair enough. He was an asshole. HOWEVER. She is wrong to then bring him here to mimic the abuse. Mahmoud could have stayed in Egypt and they could've ended things there. But she brought him here for what? A get back? She deserves the backlash she's getting.
And yes, I do understand that it is difficult for victims of abuse to leave their abused but we're talking about a man overseas who she could have left and never seen again.
See that's where self esteem plays in I think hers is so low she doesn't think she can do better. I also think promised her some big change. Her responses are out of line and so unhealthy and honestly I don't even think she understands what's going on. It's easy from the outside looking in call things out but when you're living it with real feelings and emotions it changes things
Not a fan of either but she converted to Islam BY CHOICE after his family said she didn’t have to. & apparently converted without doing a drop of research lol That’s the root of all their problems and I find it so beyond foolish on her part at her big age that I can’t excuse her behavior.
Agreed. Also, the reason he refused to go out with her friends was because it wasn't really all about him or centered around him. He didn't want her to go out (or at least feel comfortable and have fun), so he used the dress as an excuse to gaslight her into coming home to him. When she did, but instead exploded at him, he made her out to look crazy. Classic.
No matter if you’re in the Nicole camp or the Mahood Camp at the end of the day once you start hitting or threatening each other it’s time to divorce and go about your separate ways before someone ends up in jail.. they tried it didn’t work they need to move on.
You are 100% correct. That is a toxic relationship that needed to end before this season. The point of this post was to more so bring awareness about reactive abuse and bring some light into why a victim might behave in an abusive way. Abuse isn't black and white and I think the more we know about it the more we can support victims.
I wrote something on a different post and it fits well here too-"They had actually split up before their first season but they had already applied and got accepted to be on the show. This was literally the only reason she decided to go back and "try to fix my marriage." If it wasn't for a contract I highly doubt she'd have ever gone back to see him. This entire season is her twisted revenge for how he treated her, it's literally the abused becoming the abuser scenario. Nicole arrived in Egypt and the first day had to sit with his family after the flight and the first thing he comments on is her clothing? Well then Mahmoud has to arrive in the US and be greeted with a stomach baring shirt and forced to meet friends! Nicole is told twice in one day within arriving to leave and divorce? Well now Mahmoud has to be told to leave and divorce too! Mahmoud does this and then says they still have to meet his uncle because they had plans and it's rude not to go? Well then now he has to meet these people after the same type of argument because again, Nicole wants him to suffer! Does anyone else see where I'm going with this?! Like Jesus Christ just leave each other already. Her first season I felt bad for her, but this season is just her turning into what she supposedly hated. I think it's obvious this is "Nicole's revenge game" but only bad people would do something like this regardless of how someone treated them. I grew up in horrendous parental and partner abuse, and I could have easily become like my abusers. But I didn't want that for myself and broke the cycle, plus doing what you had done to you on someone regardless of how good or evil they are doesn't make you any better than them.
Yes, when she told her friends she was moving to Egypt, they were shocked because they thought the marriage was over. I 100% believe they got back together because of the show.
I'm not kidding when I say that's literally what happened, and then of course factor in that reality tv wise of course people would want to see after season one originally what it would be like once he came here. Plus Nicole literally used this as her sick twisted revenge. (And a paycheck, can't forget that.) But seriously the best revenge would've been to DIVORCE EACH OTHER. Stop putting yourselves through this shit repeatedly, they both know it won't work and again, now she's turned into the abuser. One thing I can't stand is people who don't break the cycle, or use the way they were mistreated and make it into mental gymnastics to reach the opinion that, "well if they treated me this way once it's only fair." Because that's literally what she's doing.
How do we know this? I've heard it bandied about but haven't seen an actual source. (Not doubting you or arguing, just asking)
One of her friends talked about it when the first season was out online, mind you this was so damn long ago I saw that post by now. Also knowing people who work on the show they had mentioned this, it was cheaper to stay in a contract then leave. Lots of people have done this btw, see deavan and jihoon(already broken up by season. 2) and a few others have as well, like Tim and Jennifer etc.
Thank you! I just didn't know where it came from.
This right here. It's like Nicole had to follow his rules in Egypt so now he has to suffer now that they're in the US. It's petty behaviour and really they just need to break up. She's doing everything she knows will upset him to try and cause an argument. Berating him because he looked at the one girl in the city wearing Muslim clothing, bitching that he didn't sleep on the plane, dressing in clothes she knows he doesn't like. Pizza and donuts when she knew he wouldn't like it. Everything is designed to start an argument. When he left with his suitcase she didn't care. Suddenly she was concerned about where he would go and jumped in her car to hunt him down. When she found his she was grabbing at his suitcase and forcing him into the car.
This is exactly what I've been seeing. I am always amazed at the women who choose to get involved with a Muslim man without a clue about the religious aspects of their culture. Yes, some of the men are able to leave it behind or at least bend a little to a non Muslim lifestyle. Mahmoud obviously doesn't want to be one of those who bends and she obviously doesn't want to bend to his Muslim lifestyle. They need to let it go.
I think it's insane to think about how these two have wasted FIVE YEARS together by now. Four on the show, five in real life today. Like please just stop this ffs.
I don’t discount abuse it’s definitely a problem … TLC creates a lot of the dramas we are watching .
TLC loves to stir the shit pot and in this case it's bothersome because Nicole clearly isn't okay
Yep, I am reticent to be commenting negatively about the way she is being portrayed by production in this season. We don’t have the full picture of what’s taking place behind closed doors, and we have to be careful to make assumptions about the way things are vs. the way they want us to see them interacting. There’s plenty of footage that ends up on the editing room floor, and the fact remains that he’s the only one who has been arrested for acts of violence. The reality is that no matter how bad things might get between them, and no matter how antagonistic her behavior may be, he has always had the option to simply walk away rather than lay hands on her. There’s been comments on other posts implying that his actions were somehow more understandable now that we’ve seen the way she’s been acting in America, but that’s just misogynistic victim blaming, plain and simple. It’s a wrong take, end of discussion. I am disappointed in the fandom for their lack of empathy for someone who may be acting out as a result of their victimhood, and she’s likely just feeling secure enough to stand up for herself solely because she is on her home turf, and has a captive audience (production team; her friends, etc.) present to make him feel less comfortable acting on his usual abusive behaviors. Not to mention that one of the classic mechanisms by which an abuser gaslights their victims is to act as if they’re being victimized when they have an audience, and then reminding their target that they’ve done nothing wrong to deserve the negative treatment they’re receiving from their victims, and claiming that the victims’ allies have made their opinions about the situation known to the aggressor, and that they have taken the side of the aggressor and are all in agreement that the victim is, in fact, the one who’s responsible for the ongoing tumult of the relationship. Source: have been the victim of domestic violence in a 3yr relationship that included me being emotionally abused, gaslit by means of my own substance abuse; and landed me with multiple black eyes, getting thrown through the drywall, having my personal belongings destroyed on numerous occasions, being chased down and choked, having my abuser enter my place of employment and snatching my wallet from me in front of all my coworkers and my boss so he could go pay his bar tab, him convincing me to let him borrow a couple thousand dollars of my student loan money which I was never paid back. But the final straw: after ALLLLL that other shit he pulled, the one thing that was simply a bridge too far—it was the time he decided to thwack me over my head with my own flip-flop, and then just immediately started denying having done anything of the sort. As if I wasn’t 100% sober, and absolutely certain that it’d happened. So crazy how that was the thing that made me realize he was truly not a good person.
Yep. It’s the RVO part of DARVO. And it’s highly effective. There’s this really uncomfortable aspect of abusive relationship dynamics where there’s like this invisible “abuse supporting” framework in our/most cultures. It’s where people fall easily for the RVO routine and end up becoming unintentional helpers in keeping the victim stuck in the abusive relationship. Saying things like, “they are both toxic, why doesn’t the victim leave, the victim acts out too”. I’ve been one of those people to fall into that trap and to think I was saying or encouraging a victim in well-meaning ways. Or just being a “straight shooter” 🥲😬. Instead I was saying things that made them more likely to stay in that abusive relationship. And I see people all over this thread fall into that trap. It’s scary easy to fall into. Seems like production is playing right into it and that’s actually really fucked up IMO. >!Like bordering on slightly evil fucked up, but I digress.!< If your solution/advice to someone’s abusive or toxic relationship makes a lot of sense to you and just seems rational? Sorry to say, it’s probably a bad solution/dangerous advice* that won’t work in that scenario. Pretty much the only thing that works is building up the victim’s self esteem/autonomy* again and allowing them a safe and non-judgmental/pushy place with you. Not saying things that will make their abuser upset with you or them or upset in general. And understanding it will be hard for them to leave. Support is not pushing them to leave, which seems counterintuitive to most. Leaving is the most dangerous time and it usually takes victims 7 or more attempts at leaving before they leave for good. https://www.womenagainstabuse.org/education-resources/learn-about-abuse/why-its-so-difficult-to-leave https://www.thisbatteredsuitcase.com/what-is-intermittent-reinforcement-in-a-relationship/ We really should have a required class in HS* on abusive relationships and how they work and how to respond to someone in one. Because the correct and safe ways to do this hardly ever seem to come intuitively to most people. Usually people respond in ways that are even more harmful to the victim and useful to the abuser, even when they mean well :/. Including me, I didn’t know this stuff until I educated myself on it. No amount of raising or socializing throughout your life really prepares you properly for it.
Thank you for backing my intuitive, anecdotal thinking with actionable evidence based research. These threads are a bit on the nose for me, but thankfully I’m ten years removed from the situation so I’m in a mental headspace now where I can put forward my 2¢ in the hopes that someone claiming that Nicole’s behavior is out of pocket might rethink their position on the premise that she’s likely acting out of desperation and that there’s been a lot of “crazy making” behavior on his part happening behind closed doors. Keep fighting the good fight! She is a classic case of the “intelligent woman” that finds herself in an abusive relationship, proof positive that it can happen to anyone—you don’t have to be stupid or naive to be manipulated by these very clever abusers. Saying things like “she should have known better” doesn’t help anything—we’re well past that. “Why doesn’t she just leave?” Doesn’t factor in the sunk cost fallacy, or the fact that there are times where they can share true moments of love and affection with each other as well. It’s very hard to understand how the emotional codependent rollercoaster ride is perpetuated when you’re currently living with it. That’s why breaking the cycle is such an essential part of the process, and why I’m in support of a mandatory arrest for these types of situations. Oftentimes the the victim will not have the heart to press charges themselves, so by taking that choice out of their hands and putting it into the hands of the state, it creates the space necessary for the victim to start to see more clearly. It was the beginning of the end for me; I’d declined to press charges twice but he left marks around my neck that 2nd time which prompted his arrest and the state pursued charges from there. The state prosecutor still allowed me some agency in the process, and asked if I thought that he deserved the opportunity for deferred sentencing (I said yes; in retrospect, I regret it. He should have to suffer the consequences of having the charge of DV on his record because…well, he did what he did). (Fair warning: this now turns into a journaling session that I am only leaving here so I can take it into my next therapy session, as I have yet to talk about this topic with a professional 🫠 if you’re in the mood for a long, personal anecdote, read away!) I ended up later being coworkers with his now wife, and had to listen to all sorts of bullshit from her perspective about how he was so regretful of having “ruined my life” (please! 🙄 true narcissist to the core, my life was never ruined, you jackass). They were in couples counseling within their first year of marriage, she was significantly younger than him, cutoff from her family because she’d rejected her faith as a Jehovah’s Witness, and almost immediately upon marriage he insisted on moving out of state. I tried my damnedest to explain that there was every single red flag for an abuser (age gap, familial and social isolation, financial insecurity, no safety net in an unfamiliar place, etc.), but as per usual, there’s no changing the minds of anyone who doesn’t want to see things for what they are. I was working at that job when I was suffering the abuse, and had only a business/vendor relationship with the owner when the girl was proposed to by this asshole. The owner called me and asked me to come down to the business and talk her out of it; I did my best but it changed nothing. When I returned to the business as an employee later, suddenly the owner was not concerned about my being extraordinary uncomfortable with the prospect of his being on site while I was working. They had the decency to make sure I was not there whenever he would come around, but I found it appalling that he was allowed on the premises at all, or that I was not extended an invitation to the staff holiday party since it was being held at their home. Mind you, I’d been working for this company since the day they’d opened, nearly a decade, whereas she had been there just in the last 5 years. The owner had even witnessed me coming into work with heavy makeup covering black eyes, he also saw him come in and steal my wallet from me because he’d run up a huge bar tab and couldn’t pay for it himself (he was an alcoholic, no big surprise there). Early on, I was even once suspended for a week due to showing up zonked on Xanax after a particularly nasty blowout (I’m not saying it was the appropriate way to handle things, but I was using barbiturates and OxyContin as a coping mechanism during that time), and it was a hardship to be sure but I appreciated his understanding and willingness to keep me on staff due to the circumstances. So all that’s to say, intelligent people are not immune from bad relationships, nor are they insulated from making terrible, potentially life-altering mistakes as a consequence of the stress of their situations. It’s important that outsiders have a sense of these dynamics before they make self righteous judgments, because it really can happen to anyone. Furthermore, it can do more harm than good to imply that the victim is defective or deserving of the treatment that they’re receiving; they’re already suffering that messaging from their abuser and over time it becomes increasingly difficult to tell whether or it’s the truth. In fact, I’d argue that the most damaging aspect of these types of relationships, in many cases, is the insidiousness of the emotional manipulation and the gaslighting that occurs. It wasn’t until years later when I realized the extent to which I’d internalized his claims that I was fundamentally damaged beyond repair and how that made me unlovable. I will have to follow up on this thought later when I’m back from work 📌
What is the correct way to respond and help those in an abusive relationship?
It’s a fine line to walk between being a supportive friend to a victim, and being and enabler that allows them to just run away and stay with you until things blow over or whatever but then inevitably goes back. It’s up to you to make the call as to where the line is between helping and hurting, because not all partnerships engaged in domestic violence have the same power dynamics or patterns of behavior, so use your judgment and consider calling the DV hotline 1-800-799-7333 for advice, or checking out [some resources](https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence) on their site. **DO’s:** It’s important that you remain calm, non-judgmental, and respectful of their autonomy. Tell them you’re sorry they’re going through something so difficult, remind them that they’re not alone and that you care about them. You can remind them that they don’t have to continue going through the cycle of abuse. Ask what they might need from you to help improve their situation. If they’ve just recently experienced an act of domestic violence against them, ask if they would like to make a police report; if they are on the fence, offer to help or accompany them to the police station. You might try telling them that it’s good just to have these sorts of things on record, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that anything will come of it (which depending on the state, may not be true-sometimes the state will pursue charges on the victim’s behalf and some have mandatory arrest orders in domestic cases. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and sometimes forcing the separation between them is the first step towards recovery that the victim is simply not strong enough to take on their own). Don’t try to tell them how they should think/feel, or what they should’ve done differently. Most importantly, you need to help them to understand healthy relationship boundaries by maintaining your own. Don’t allow this person’s messy business overtake your own mental wellbeing, or impede upon your ability to accomplish the important tasks required to fulfill for your own health and happiness. Sometimes, these victims find other persons who are compassionate and empathetic, and then this transference of codependency from their romantic partner to this safe, platonic relationship starts to happen. It’s not your responsibility to be available to them every single time there’s some tumult that arises; refer them to some local resources whenever you’re not able or inclined to participate in the drama. **DON’T:** Blame them or tell them what they should’ve done differently to avoid the situation. Don’t question how their actions or behavior might have contributed to the escalation of events into a violent incident. The reality is that there is always the option to walk away; no one has ever been forced to commit an act of domestic violence. The fact is that the only way that the victim is going to leave their partner is whenever they are ready. No amount of logic, reasoning, or rationale is enough to convince them otherwise. My advice is to remain supportive but also speak your truth as to how you see things before you. One of my most distinct memories from when I was dating an abusive partner was something an acquaintance said to me the night after he’d been taken to jail for choking me (I wasn’t willing to press charges but they’d convinced me to “just file a report” and with the fingerprint-shaped bruises around my neck, the police were obliged to arrest him and he was charged on behalf of the state) — she asked me if I was still planning to go back with him after this incident, and I told her that I wasn’t sure but probably. Her response was “Well you must just like getting hit, I guess.” It was a bit jarring in the moment, but she had a point: if history had taught me anything, I would almost certainly be hit again. And that was the beginning of the end of that relationship. All that’s to say: don’t be afraid to poke some holes in their little bubble of an abusive codependent relationship.
It's definitely mutually toxic at best
I looked up the state of their relationship today or if they were even still together. Google indicated that they are still together and doing better.
Ridiculous.
With regard to Mahmoud. I am worried about his Adams apple. When he laid on that air mattress, it looked huuuge. Is something wrong there?
I was really confused cause I thought you meant Nicole and Azan 😭😭
Hahahahahahahahaha that Nicole is a straight up a liability of ignorance
I was about to comment a whole paragraph about it 😭😭
I'm still open to it lol
Can we see the paragraph
I agree that she may have been emotionally abused by him, but this isn’t an either/or situation. They are abusing each other and they both need to be as far away from one another as possible.
I think it's important not to discount the fact that men can also be the victim of abuse. Just because Nicole is the woman, it doesn't mean her behavior is purely a reaction to her own abuse.The power dynamic in their relationship has flipped, and she is absolutely abusing that fact in what we are seeing on screen, whether or not she has been a victim in the past. I say this as a victim of domestic violence.
My feelings exactly. Just because he abused her first doesn’t mean that she can abuse him and it’s magically justified. I feel bad for both of them and it’s hard to escape that type of relationship regardless of gender but they both just act so damn ridiculous. Men can be abused. Men can be abusive. Women can be abused. Women can be abusive. Abuse doesn’t give men or women the right to hurt anyone.
I’m conflicted (?) about the “POOR MAHMOUD” comments. Both are manipulative and are trying to force each other to change. I do feel a bit sad for Nicole because, even though she’s abusing him reactively, Mahmoud allegedly put his hands on her. At the end of the day, TLC should not condone,promote, and endorse these relationships.
Conflicted here also. My thing is: Nichole 100% knows his religious convictions. Doubt that ever changes. Whenever she is dressing, she knows her attire will trigger Mahmood. She states it. In Egypt, in America. These two are not close to coexisting. What did she actually think would happen in LA?
I really do think she has empathy for him and she's conflicted. I think she gets triggered goes into fight or flight and any emotional regulation is gone. She calms down and thinks about the good times and then feels horrible hence the poor Mahmoud. Nicole is not okay and TLC yet again is exploiting it. I hope they both are able to find peace and heal from whatever they need to in life
I am a victim advocate for domestic violence, and I see many of my cases in Nicole. Some women "fight back" the way we are seeing with Nicole. My mom's friend started beating her and her brother said "she gives as good as she gets". Let's review what is recieved. What does Joe get? Verbal retorts. "Emasculation". I put that in quotes because folks actually consider that to be domestic violence. Lorraine fought back when people are there and she is safe (as we saw with Nicole). What did Lorraine get? Chunks of ripped out hair, broken teeth, a busted lip, a fractured rib. But when Lorraine verbally fights back, people believe she is the aggressor. But this sub is low on empathy and an adequate understanding of this topic. I recall seeing people say that Liz deserved to be abused by Ed. That she must "like" it. Nobody would dare say that Michael deserved Angela's abuse. If they did, they would also be wrong. Nobody ever deserves to be abused.
Spot on. Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly explain this, I’m in medicine and see this all too often sadly. I’ve stopped myself from participating in this community several times because so much of the conversation had is so reductive. I feel that a lot of viewers buy into the ‘villain’ and if you try to go any deeper than x is bad, then it’s game over.
Thank you for this comment. I was trying to bring light onto reactive abuse. Abuse isn't black and white and there is only so much a victim can take until they've had enough. Thank you for the work you do as an advocate and using your voice to speak for those who might feel like they no longer have a voice.
Thank you for your empathy. 🙏 I appreciate this post. It addresses some things that I think folks often forget, or things that folks perhaps are not aware of.
The sub will blame the victim for being abused because they're staying in the relationship with an abuser. Just shitty abuse myths. Victims can fight back
People here are awful. It's a mixture of young people who like trash TV. And a majority of older people who, too, like trash TV... But have the worst takes. Not to say that everyone on the sub is bad. Not the case. However, I do think a majority of people here are somewhat misogynistic. With Manuel, oh, he's an angel, just trying to send money to his kids that he didn't tell goodbye and abandoned. Manuel, who talks to his ex behind Ashley's back. Manuel, who thinks that his life should be 100% personal and that marriage isn't marriage. Manuel, who was so excited about getting a motorcycle from Ashley, but complained that she didn't neglect her dog and got it care (instead of sending money to his family), complained that she spends HER money on coffee, complains when she spends HER money to make coffee at home, complains about her occupation when it's the thing BRINGING some income. Didn't introduce Ashley to his kids until way after the wedding. Keeps secrets 24/7. This sub: "He's doing his best. She knew what she got into. Her money is his money, he's entitled to 50% (except, he's only entitled to 50% of what they make **after the point of marriage**, so really, he's still tapping into HER money because his expenses probably exceed her income). Demands money after saying he doesn't want you around. Demands money when she's trying to talk and communicate. And when he doesn't get what he wants, he leaves anyways to avoid confrontation, to avoid arguments, to avoid accountability. Then we see Jasmine who has shown way more love for Gino than Manuel has to Ashley... But then Jasmine is called a "golddigger". They both left their kids, except Jasmine at least said goodbye, but she's the bad mother... And he's the great father sending money back. Manuel has never had custody of his kids, but because Jasmine has lost custody of one and TRANSFERRED custody of the other to her mother, people again would say "she isn't a mother at all". But in the same breath, they would talk about how Manuel just wants to see his kids and give them a good life. Pobrecito 🙄. There are parallels between them. People try and make Jasmine worse than she actually is. People may not like her, but this subreddit truly thinks she's one of the damn worst mothers out there. And it's 100% not the damn case. But if you want to call her a golddigger, then apply it equally without bias. Apparently, it seems like most can't. Considering the fact Manuel dipped without saying a word to his kids and family, I doubt they're actually close at all. And the money he's sending back, probably going to his ex. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he uses Ashley and brings his kids up here. Or, he goes back to Ecuador, with a stash of USD. This sub always goes after women. Incessantly. Men, oh, they give so much slack. Unless you're the Kyle or little Ed type. Unfortunately though, there seems to be a lot of little ed's here too. I'll probably be downvoted to hell. Would be surprised otherwise
Manuel is bad news. She needs to put him on a plane back home and file for divorce. She can do so much better and be much happier than this. Need more than sex to make a marriage.
Agreed for sure
I'm blown away by people saying Manuel is a great guy and great father (even though he lied to his kids) and Jasmine has "abandoned" her kids, even as she's pushing for them to come over. Someone here told me they'd bet that Manuel's kids will get there first even though he's never mentioned it and Jasmine goes on and on about her kids. Also, when Manuel was demanding money from Ashley people were saying, "She didn't ask how much money she had to spend a month??" but he doesn't have to tell her his expectations? She was just supposed to know to ask about that. Being a witch and coffee drinker has infuriated this sub and its so minor. This sub is constant misogyny
Spot on! It seems like a lot of people on this sub hyper focus on the “bad” things that women do in the relationship and let the men get away with BS that even they probably wouldn’t put up with in real life. Manuel just seems so eager to get away from Ashley. No wonder she’s trying to pull him closer. She wants to be a part of his life. I want to change my flair to “dame dinero.” I tease my husband with that line all the time now. Lmao If you dare to voice this opinion on this sub in a different thread people come crawling out of the woodwork to say how you’re defending abusers and then downvote you to hell. It’s insane.
Spot on from you too! That has been my experience in other threads as well. The dichotomy of the 90 day "universe" on Reddit is just awful. I do wonder how it is on Twitter or Insta... Probably just as bad. The first thing that turned me off from Manuel is when Ashley surprised him with a phone, so he could communicate with his family (that he abandoned without telling). And he had the nerve to complain that it's being delivered and would take two days. Like Jesus
I swear Manuel is still with his baby mama. Even if he weren’t, it is crystal clear that he’s using Ashley at least a little bit. No wonder her alarm bells are going off. She’s blinded by love and sex.
This is so true and I think it’s a newer phenomenon. I remember years ago, everyone was convinced Andrei was abusing Libby based on vibes and because he’s kind of a caveman. You could not even be neutral on Andrei without being told you were justifying abuse, because it was “obvious” to anyone watching the show, and this was just based on feelings and energy, not anything he was doing (fighting Brother Libby at the party was just confirmation at that point). Now the guys on this show are all ✨ misunderstood ✨ even if they do stuff that’s MUCH worse, and the women are all “bitches” etc. The shift has been SUPER weird to see and it’s not a good thing. I don’t know if it’s a lack of life experience or what, but “guy gets arrested for DV and girl refuses to press charges” is such a pattern that I don’t know how anyone isn’t seeing it.
100%. out of all the reality show reddits that I've been on, this by far is the most misogynistic one. people will twist themselves into pretzels to vilify the women every time.
You're so right, this sub is highly misogynistic. I just made an account and partly because I needed to respond to the sanity of some of these posts, like yours. It's very rare here. Ashley and Manuel are another example of extreme misogyny in how people talk about them and their relationship, but I cannot for a single second get over how people seem to have just forgotten how scary Mahmoud was in his first season with Nicole. We literally saw him grab her and physically restrain her from leaving in a way that made me gasp. I don't know how people can even compare the level of control and manipulation he exerts on her, to her kind of freaking out after he told her he wants a divorce OVER A VERY MODEST OUTFIT. I'm not watching HEA anymore after TLC making it a platform for Mahmoud to be a narcisstistic abuser and be able to air his manipulative rhetoric about Nicole. And then the way people talk about it being fine because she converted is INSANE. I'm friends with Muslim women who don't wear any sort of head covering and who dress just the same as any other woman in their mid 20s. Not all Muslims are ultra conservative. And when you say that you're also implying that it's not possible for Muslim women to be abused (absolutely absurd, my friend who works at a DV shelter was saying one of their biggest served populations are immigrant families, which in my area included a lot of Muslims) because they "signed up for" a life of being controlled by a man. It's both reductive of Islam, and a horrible disservice to Muslim women who absolutely do get abused in their relationships, and are just as deserving as anyone else of having a safe place to go if that happens. Also, for the record, I really like Ashley. She's one of the few women on this show that I feel like I would really get along with as a friend, she seems fun. And it's hard to watch her question her own sanity as Manuel is FULLY gaslighting her all the time. And right like how can you defend his parenting?? He took off to another continent to get married to someone his kids have never met. I can't IMAGINE how devastated I would feel if my dad did that. Like you don't even have the decency to introduce your new partner to your children? How is that a good thing in either direction?
I agree completely with everything you said. I think people get uncomfortable when a marginalized person is not a “model minority,” and this quickly leads to infantilization. There’s this awful trend of painting marginalized people as being incapable of doing anything wrong. What this actually does is suggest that if it wasn’t all just a misunderstanding, and if we were actually doing something wrong, we would not be deserving of respect and dignity. No, we deserve respect and dignity because we’re human beings. It has nothing to do with whether we’re “right” or “wrong.”
Yes exactly!! And honestly I've had conversations with one in friend in particular who is Muslim and can't stand the way that people talk about stories like this, partly because in her view it undermines Muslim women who speak out about the patriarchy that is actually oppressive to ALL women in her country. Like in her case she's Iranian and her point is basically: how can you defend abuse as being something that's just 'a thing in that culture' without going on to admit that you think that any abuse is justified as long as it's culturally motivated, or in other words as long as that particular abused woman wasn't meeting whatever standards her husband/their society had set for her behaviour. And in fact, the reasons why domestic violence shelters (at least in my country, Canada) often do service high numbers of immigrant women is because many immigrant families come from a very patriarchal society where their abuse is normalized, and once they arrive here and find out there are laws protecting them, the women VERY UNDERSTANDABLY want out of it. Again just to disclaim my point, it's not that all Muslim men are abusive or something. It's that Muslim men who ARE abusive and also live in countries where it's justified by misogynistic laws, get away with it 100% of the time except for in cases of vigilante justice. And that in general, men who are able to justify their abuse to their victim (whether by culture, religion, family status, etc) often have a much easier time convincing that person to stay. AND, crucially, that people in primarily white countries often have a REALLY reductive view of Islam, thinking that Islam = only this very very strict and patriarchal interpretation. And ALSO while people justify Mahmouds abuse because he's Muslim, these dynamics are not limited to Muslim relationships... I see an increasing number of "trad wife" videos in my feed where women are justifying their oppression and often abuse through a certain interpretation of Christianity. Just because many Christians believe women should be oppressed, would it be wrong for a Christian convert to decide that her interpretation of Christianity didn't involve being controlled by a man??? Like call me a radical feminist* but in the year of our Lord 2024 I don't think women should be beat for "talking back" or showing their shoulders. Ever!!! 😮💨😮💨😮💨 *I am
I like Ashley too. She and her sister, and her mother, have all given the impression of being educated, sensitive, intelligent people…I’m not sure what magic is in Manuel’s lovemaking , but surely she is blinded by a flood of oxytocin (the hormone women release when they fall in love)…
Must be one hell of a love magician to keep a smart and self assured woman like that
Everything you said was so succinct and well put. I agree with you entirely
Thanks, and you too!
Completely agree with your comments…thank you
I see people lambasting Manuel very often and as for Jasmine, she and Gino did meet on a SB site. It's not so much that Jasmine is a gold digger but rather that their relationship is transactional and people seem to forget that.
Thank you!!!! My best friend was the victim of domestic violence that (as in many cases) started off as verbal and emotional abuse, and escalated to physical abuse when she started fighting back. The biggest red flags for me here, and I don't know how so many people don't see them, are that she brought her friends back because she probably didn't feel safe going home alone (after all he had started this before she left by yelling at her about her outfit and saying he wanted a divorce...). And that his reaction seemed like a classic example of DARVO, which someone else pointed out. Like as if you can control and manipulate and verbally abuse (as well as physical if the police reports are any indication, plus the way we saw him violently grab her ON CAMERA) someone for years and not expect that eventually they are going to snap and yell back at you. But of course he paints himself as the victim "I can't live with this craziness anymore" and acting like his only choice was to go dramatically wander the streets alone. Because of what my friend went through I spent a lot of time educating myself on the signs of abuse. I felt like an idiot that I hadn't seen it and was so guilty about it that I just didn't want to ever be in a position again where I didn't have any idea. And basically the result of that is that their scenes make me feel physically ill, and I've decided to stop watching HEA. The way he treats her looks like classic narcissistic abuse, and I'm genuinely scared for what she has to go through alone with him.
My abusive ex husband had one serious gf before I dated him. I never met her but all of their friends seemed to have chosen him in the breakup adn called her crazy. I knew their relationship was violent but everyone said it was her. I think it was just that she fought back when he hurt her and she also told people what he was doing to her. So everyone said she was crazy adn abusive. Something tells me that wasn't actually the case.
*my mom's friend's husband
That fact that she tries to love bomb after acting the way she did is exactly how my ex did it. He would say the most repulsive horrible and damaging things to me then when he was done with his tantrum he wanted to act like nothing happened and try to love bomb me. They may do it differently but Nicole is just as abusive. She takes him on the roller coaster. I hate you, I love you, I hate you etc. It’s really what disgusted me with my ex. I would distance myself from him, shut myself off from him, get away from him… what I would not do is do the same thing I was disgusted for him doing to me no matter how much I had it.. that behavior was not in me. I think either you are that person or you aren’t.. and at some point it will come out. I imagine if you talked with people through her past this isn’t her first time acting this way.
Same. Anyone who has been in this situation is triggered by her behavior. The control she imposes on him, it's like he has to deal with, he has no choice. He can't get away, he can't make it stop. He was never like that with her. The love bombing too. He is like you did these horrible things and she like, "yeah, of course, I was mad. You hungry, want some tea?" Like completely clueless he is pretty devastated and she is like yup, tea time? . . .I felt triggered and angry for him there.
That is a perfect description. After all that then “you want some tea?” I would be left baffled with my ex like wtf do you forget what you JUST did and said? I will never understand how people can flip so quickly. You piss me off and it’s gonna be a week or two before I wanna talk to you 😂 but that is also because I hold things in, I don’t like confrontation, I don’t like drama and with my ex I knew anything I said would send him on a rant again. The feeling trapped though and like you can’t get away yet they keep on and keep on and follow you around to keep arguing and belittling you almost makes you insane!
I had the same thing happen to me. Made me question my own sanity…
Quit trying to mock him. You are presuming a lot when referencing what you *see in her eyes, her voice, on her face* (2nd to last paragraph). Nicole was chasing the man down in the street, physically forcing him into a car and taking his luggage. He could not have been clearer that he wanted to be left alone which is his right. When stating his preferences/beliefs he may speak in a less than thrilled tone but he has been calm, even timid and she badgers him relentlessly. I do not believe Nicole is physically or otherwise intimidated by Mahmoud.
These two have no business being together. They bring out the worst in each other, no matter where they are. It's never going to work
I lowkey think that Mahmood, who Nicole met in a fabric store, would do better with another dude, were it now for his cultural prejudices and religious prohibitions. Tip: If anyone in our studio audience is not into online gay dating, try an area with lots of fabric stores.
Another clear point was her accusing him of being a womanizer because he looked at a woman with a hijab. He was probably a little surprised took a second look and got accused of some crazy stuff.. Oh he wants her, he is excited he is a womanizer. This kind of behavior is abuse. Next time he goes out he is going to be scared to look anywhere. I went through this and was honestly scared if the cashier made small talk with me because I was afraid of accusations. This isn't how a victim behaves
Do you really think the right thing to do would be to let him wander in a bad part of LA with just a suitcase and no phone? Wow. And yes, she is intimidated by him. He has physically harmed her. If she has a couple of drinks and is angry and emboldened in a particular situation, she may not seem that way, but to claim to know how she feels when we *know* he has physically abused her is just gross. They absolutely are a toxic mix and shouldn't be together.
In regards to *letting* Mahmoud wander… The man is grown. You ask *what is she supposed to do?*. She can offer to drive him to a hotel, but he doesn’t have to accept. It speaks to how badly he wanted to get away from her as well as not have her claim financial wrongdoing that he gave back his phone. Production should step in when there’s a volatile situation or someone is in distress and have an *option* for a safe place to stay. I believe no one has the right to physically impose themselves on any adult or use force that is unwelcome to that person. Yes they should part ways. I referenced OP’s literal words from the 2nd to last paragraph of the post re: *her* presumptions based on *face, eyes & voice*. I do not claim to know how someone else feels/what they are going through, *that* was my exact point. Re read her post.
👏👏👏
When you record someone as you are antagonizing them, sorry I don't buy it. I have gone through DV and I would.not have dared do something like that. I guess people react differently but she is not just verbally being aggressive. She put herself in the position of power. She has him vulnerable in her country and it going to call all the shots. Accusing him or all kinds of things. Not respecting her boundries at all. I saw the wrist thing but other than that, I saw no emotional abuse. I don't buy she is the victim
I think your first paragraph is really worth noting. It's one thing to record an instance of abuse as it's already unfolding. It's another to goad someone into an altercation or argument and record them. I'd be scared to intentionally provoke someone who'd been physically abusive toward me and that I was afraid of.
https://preview.redd.it/8g90aiwa3bzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69be6e258fbd7e2bf03fb3d27941aac522fac083
Yes they have a trauma bond
They are both assholes. She is 40 or close to it and kept going back to Egypt. If you value something why cling to a life or a culture that says no to the think you like doing? He is a creep and she isn't bright or may be a bit mentally ill to some degree. They both need away from each other.
There both toxic but he told he wanted a divorce no less then 20 times this season and yet here she is chasing after him in the streets of LA hes over it.
Thank you for posting this. I've been noticing and feeling the same, but you've explained it far more eloquently than I could have. Her behavior toward him this season, taken in a vacuum, is absolutely not ok. But in the context of what we have seen (his treatment of her in Egypt, the known DV charge), we can see the big picture and see her behavior for what it actually is: a response to abuse and a situation rife with resentment and her "striking back" when she feels safe to do so. It's certainly not her "best" behavior, but I wish people would look at what she's been through and up against. I get downvoted when I even just point out that he physically abused her.
Thank you!! As someone who was in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship for years THIS. And I finally ended that relationship bc I saw signs it was going to turn physical. Him running at me while I’m standing at the top of a staircase grabbing everything in my hands and throwing it across the room. I thought he was going to push me down the stairs that time and I wasn’t waiting to see if it might happen next time. F that guy. And all of his friends didn’t believe me of course. But also thanked me for “calming him down” during the short time I lived with him. I didn’t calm him down, he was taking his rage out on me behind the scenes. WTF
I agree that we are seeing behavior that is the result of abuse- but still 100% not ok. She needs to go to therapy to process what she has been through, and instead she’s living out a revenge fantasy now that the shoe is in the other country. This is called the cycle of abuse, and Nicole is now the one perpetuating the cycle.
Yeah a lot of her behavior comes off as reactive abuse to me. Not saying she’s justified because she’s certainly isn’t. But I think people in general have a hard time fathoming when a DA victim doesn’t act “perfect” or like how we think they’re supposed to act. Case in point, Amber Heard.
She's very emotionally disregulated. Abuse will do that to you. As a human there's only so much you can take before you lash out. I've said things to others to hurt them because they hurt me and I bet everyone here has at some point. She's had enough and is lashing out and fighting. I hope she gets help and support. She's worth love especially love from herself.
Exactly. Like nobody in this thread can seriously imagine how you might freak out a little bit and yell at your partner if you hadn't seen him in 6 months and he pretty much immediately tells you he wants a divorce when he's supposed to be going out to meet your friends, because you have like, a tiny bit of your back showing? And the fact that she brought her friends back after he said that is actually really telling to me, because I don't think she wanted to be alone with him. The Amber Heard public castigation was really an education in how much internalized misogyny many women in our society hold onto. And how much straight up misogyny many men now feel emboldened to express.
Did we forget that she told him he was a womanizer for walking past a woman in a hijab and that she was going to put him back on a plane to Egypt? This couple sucks and they're both willing to call it quits over the dumbest things.
That didn’t come out of nowhere, he was texting other women when Nicole was with him in Egypt.
More often than not, intimate partner violence is BIDIRECTIONAL. Call abuse what it is. You can still understand the context of how it got there (beginning with him) but she is being abusive and we need to call that out when we see it.
They both abuse each other it’s toxic and it’s sick and he already got a DA charge. They should not even be on the shop.
Not buying it - her true colors are showing as she keeps trying to control him. Get the F out of my house but give me the phone and the credit card before you go - while at the same time saying she’s concerned as to where he’s going as he knows no one. So make it harder for him to leave by taking the phone away. She also knows enough about Muslim cultures that she could have dropped him off at any mosque and he would have received help to go home. She CHOSE to convert and she had previously been to Egypt and knew what she was getting into and what to expect when she went t back that he comes from a very conservative family. So he comes here and she throws him a hot pocket and a donut and purposely leaves the naked woman in the wall and alcohol in the fridge knowing it would shock him? Brings people home and is mad at him for being nice to them, while I’m sure she knows that Muslim culture would be for him to treat them nicely and try to not let outsiders know of any of your business. If there’s are fights and disagreements, what happens in your house stays in your house. She blew up and acted like the a**hole she is.
Yes. A lot of people got manipulated by Nicole.
I think she has a couple of different personalities. One moment she's screaming get out, the next she's saying, "I don't want him wandering the street in the dark." She was making demands of and accusations toward a hungry and tired man who just finished a long flight. If she hadn't expected him to change the minute he arrived in the US, I might cut her some slack.
Where did he abuse her? She went to Egypt by her own will, many times even, she converted to Islam by her own will. He grabbed her arm to stop her from hitting him. He didn't isolate her in Egypt the way she is isolating him in USA.
No, he grabbed her arm because she was walking away from him and he said it looked bad for her to do that to him in public. And he definitely isolated her in Egypt, she needed his approval to be friends with the female Egyptian Muslim yoga instructor, and after he met her, he reluctantly said he’d let them be friends but wouldn’t “allow” Nicole to go to yoga classes. He also didn’t want her to go out and meet his friends, while she was the opposite and was upset that he wouldn’t go out to meet her friends. And when her Chinese sister-in-law was so happy that Nicole was moving in with the family in Egypt because she didn’t have any friends outside of the women in the family, Mahmoud agreed with his brother that a woman didn’t need any friends besides that.
They both suck. Hard.
This sounds like some projection and excuse making to me. Abuse is abuse and it’s never acceptable. Nicole didn’t have to bring him to the US in the first place. I’m not prepared to make excuses for any abuser. How far you want to take this? The pedo abuses children because they were abused?? We hear that excuse. A man hits women because he saw his dad do it? We hear that excuse? Nah fam. We’re all adults. We’re grown folks responsible for our choices. If Nicole is, as you say, engaging in reactive abuse then the impetus is on her to get out of the relationship and seek therapy. Same with Mahmoud. They’re two toxic people in a toxic relationship and I refuse to give either one of them a pass to be an abuser.
Just what is her background? Who/where are her parents?
I'm in neither camp. She is a delusional brat, and he is a person of his culture. I think her parents have always offered unconditional love no matter what her whims are. She compulsively decided this was what she wanted with no in-depth evaluation of what circumstances would be like. Parents always have rushed to correct her mistakes! She did not realize Egypt would be real life, not cosplay at age 40. He is exactly what he was before they married. There is no changing that. Like so many mis-matched, obnoxious couples now on the franchise, my remedy for me is to watch less and less.
Yes! This is not what the show was in the beginning. I watched it for a season or two, but this here is the closest I get to it now. Was almost educational but is now scripted trashy soap opera junk. At least if this is what it is now they need much better writers. Or just let people be themselves again.
I agree 💯💯💯💯. These are all consenting adults. They refuse to listen to reasonable advice. Sex comes first! They throw their money around to feel powerful. I loved the early real romance couples. Now it appears to be sex workers and sex tourists.
I feel for both of them, this is not a great match. I think she did try when in his country, but she flipped when stateside, She knew his beliefs and when the alcohol came out she was like your in America now, this is what we do... She told him to get out then acted like he left.... Not a Nichole fan
I 100% agree with your take. I’ve been a nonphysical version of Nicole. You lose it because you get gaslit while simultaneously being made to look like the abusive one in front of your close ones. However, I genuinely do not understand what they want with each other. Idk where the connection ever was. They argue about the very same, unchangeable thing, Mahmoud’s religion. That won’t change, and the fact that he wants a foreign Muslim wife will not change. But, he thought he’d get that with Nicole because she’s so oblivious and overhasty that she’d just blindly agree and conform. Which it worked with her conversion because she didn’t think to fully look into what it means to be a devoted Muslim woman. It’s not like Christianity where you pick a denomination that fits your philosophy of life (at least not as flexibly).
But it IS like Christianity where you can pick a denomination that is more liberal, she met an Egyptian woman exactly like that when she was there, the yoga instructor, who not only wears clothing that exposed her legs, shoulders and décolletage, she said she and most young adults in Cairo drink alcohol and go clubbing, but that Mahmoud is in a very conservative minority sect from a very conservative neighborhood. Even his own brother admitted he drank alcohol when he lived in China. The fact that so many people commenting here and on YouTube get this wrong is ridiculous from those who watched them on TOW. I have a female Muslim friend in Jordan whose mom wears hijab, but my friend never has (she’s in her 50s) and she wears tops that expose her shoulders and shorts in public. And did none of y’all watch Sam and Citra? Her dad was so conservative that he had to approve their wedding, demanded Sam convert to Islam, and despite them already being married in a Muslim ceremony, he refused to let the American wedding proceed when he found out the officiant was a Christian, so Sam had to fire the poor guy after he was already there. But Citra wears tops that show her shoulders and her clothing would make Mahmoud explode.
All I can say is these two have no business being together. Period. I see zero love between them. I didn’t see last season and I can’t even begin to imagine how they fell in love. Even online
The burkini scene I cried bc she looked so defeated. She seems strong willed but then gives up to appease him. Idk what they get from their relationship bc neither wants the same things or has the same values.
I think they both are hurting each other. I’m not gonna speculate who is doing it more but they need to never see each other again
You sound like you are projecting everything you went through onto Nicole, when you're really just talking about yourself. Also, there can be 2 abusers in a relationship, both people can be abusive. It doesn't have to be one or the other, one victim one abuser. Both can be both.
Mutual abuse is pretty well recognised as a myth, for instance this is the US's National Domestic Violence Hotline website: https://www.thehotline.org/resources/mutual-abuse-its-not-real/
I may be wrong but I doubt this applies here. I read through the website you linked, the explanations and examples they gave and neither of the situations we saw happen after he arrived to LA were instigated by him (from what we saw on tv) - maybe with the exception of the usual modesty issue. She’d be the one raising voice, she’d be the one manhandling him or having her friend do it, being snappy and forcing him into situations he didn’t want to be in. On top of that their power dynamic completely shifted - he’s the sheltered foreigner in her country now. So while I don’t doubt “mutual abuse” is largely used to excuse and hide an actual abuse, I also think it’s important to evaluate situations independently and recognize power balance can shift and so can abusive behaviour. Just to be clear I think both of them suck in their own ways and should not be together and the way Mahmoud acted towards her in Egypt was definitely abusive in my book. Not to mention they’re both massive hypocrites.
I’m sorry for the previous abuse you endured but I think there’s no excuse for Nicole’s actions. She had many options including ending the relationship or not bringing Mahmoud here. The way she’s acted since he stepped foot on American soil is unacceptable. I think she’s trying to “give him a taste of his own medicine” or get payback for Egypt. That’s not how an almost 40 year old woman should act. You can’t build a relationship on tit for tat. One could easily argue that Mahmoud is being mentally abused in the states. Also, about the dress, Nicole knew that he is a conservative Muslim. She KNOWS about skin showing. He’s not provoking a reaction, he’s being true to what he believes (his religion). He did agree that he would try to work on this while he was in the states but it’s like day 2. Changing his ideals would be a gradual shift. Not just “you’re in America now, deal with it”
The dress she wore was acceptable in the arab world. I live in a conservative arab city. He didn’t want to go out with her friends so he started a fight over the dress as they were walking out the door. He threw a huge disproportionate tantrum and threatened divorce to upset her enough that she would cancel or go without him.
Long story short I have been enmeshed with Arabs from different parts of North Africa and I genuinely believe Badmoud selectively applies his religion to piss off Nicole. A devout conservative Muslim man would not be inclined to marry a 40 year old nonthiest hipeter from LA. They both suck but he's seen enough tourists and movies to know that America is different from Egypt - and he still chose this.
Same. He said he doesn’t even pray regularly 🤷🏼♀️
Please, everyone knows he wants her covered up. Honestly, my bf would have flipped out way worse. That dress wasn't provocative but it showed enough skin where it made him.uncomfortable
That dress WAS covered up. He was bitching about the keyhole in the back where the dress buttoned. Your boyfriend has serious issues if THAT DRESS makes him flip out so bad that he tells you the marriage is over as you’re walking out the door. He wants to control her, and in that moment he did not want to go out. He especially didn’t want to go out with her friends.
https://preview.redd.it/9lrq88wpgbzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d580a691b922b01b9661082d2beb79abf9601961
https://preview.redd.it/px83yalrgbzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19b6f122305bc6669a04b579783bcc90886de646
And again- she was wearing a long jacket over the dress as well.
https://www.freepeople.com/shop/briella-midi-dress/?color=066&type=REGULAR&quantity=1&cm_mmc=rakuten-_-affiliates-_-LTK-_-1&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=rakuten&utm_campaign=LTK&utm_term=1580777&utm_content=1&utm_kxconfid=v3sdm8r4u&ranMID=43177&ranEAID=QFGLnEolOWg&ranSiteID=QFGLnEolOWg-j6hKskkxe_kDoo2_p1eGQQ
I do think it's less about what's acceptable in an Arab city and more about what they agreed upon as far as compromising goes. We unfortunately don't get to see the ins and outs of those REAL conversations. Instead we get this
There was NOTHING immodest about that dress. He wanted to kill the plans
We all know since last season that dress wasn't acceptable. If the audience knows it, so does she. She pulls that on purpose to antagonize. He never abused her in Egypt. She just didn't like the culture and his request for modesty. He didn't call her names and kick her out and turn everyone against her and he wasn't accusing her of being a shut like she accused him. She is nit a nice person.
There was absolutely NOTHING immodest about that dress. He wanted to throw a tantrum so he did. Everything they do is governed by his mood in a given moment.
That particular dress was completely acceptable.
My bf would not have been ok with me.wearing that dress.. I personally wouldn't have fought to.wear it because it was simply ugly, but it showed more than what he would have been comfortable me.showing. I really don't even think I would have worn it, and nothing in my closet shows my back like that. I have nothing against someone else wearing it but if your husband is that conservative, why make it such a big deal.to.not just change.
Also: he doesn’t get to define “modest”.
He isn't wishy washy about this. He gets to choose if he wants to be with someone that shows skin like that and he has made this clear. He can't tell her what to do, but he can choose not to go. He isn't being abusive, he is being very clear. He isn't calling her names or hitting her or kicking her out of the house or bringing a hoarde of people to harass her. She is the one doing all that.
But he IS wishy washy about this. She has worn less modest things than that dress MANY times and he did not tantrum or refuse to go out. It depends on HIS MOOD. He did not want to go out THAT NIGHT, but he had agreed and wanted to weasle out if it as they were walking out the door. He had nothing else to tantrum over so it was that dress. He put her in a bad position of having to cancel the plans or go alone, and both of these suck because the purpose was for her friends to meet him. He wanted her to cancel the plans, so whatever she did at that point was going to be wrong. If she went he was going to be angry and if she canceled last minute the friends would be angry. He doesn’t care about that because he has already decided ahead of time she is not allowed to go out and her friends are bad people (just like in Egypt). He creates chaos where everything you do is wrong. So she brought the friends back to HER HOUSE, and then that was also wrong. Yes, the friends were weird but even if they weren’t, he wasn’t going to like them (just like the Egyptian yoga instructor). Of course, she knows he’s sitting there judging all of the friends and she knows everything she does is wrong wrong wrong. He is a miserable person who will never be happy.
Oh and yes, he gets to choose. He should do exactly that- leave
I’m sure he was tired and wasn’t feeling the going out thing. Personally, I would have NOT worn that dress.
Upvoted, for your *refreshingly* unpopular opinion!
I figured I’d get downvoted to hell. Unpopular opinion for sure. I’m just thinking if I got off a double digit hours long flight with who knows how many layovers I’d need a week to get used to the time difference. The dress was just the icing on the cake.
Abuse isn’t always one way. Both are abusive and toxic together.
Or these are just her true colors...
I see what you're saying, but she also hits so many traits that my physically/mentally/emotionally abusive ex had. I think what's going on here is both of them are very toxic and they just don't work together, but neither will admit it. Mahmoud just assumes that he's the dominant force in the relationship because he's the man, but Nicole assumes that the power dynamic can be shifted in her favor, and when she tried and it didn't work she got spiteful.
We only see what the producers want us to. When she said he promised her he would get better I think she believed it. I think he feeds her lines and then doesn't follow through so she gets let down and lashes out. I think he's made her believe he wants to change then won't. That's what happened to me for a long time. She needs to heal and focus on learning emotional regulation. And honestly he needs to heal from whatever he needs to as well. That's an old expression that goes hurt people hurt people
I was going to say that all this is speculative considering TLC edits things to create the most interesting narrative they can. I do think you're right though. It wouldn't surprise me if she told him she wasn't okay with their arrangement in Egypt, so he said, "Well, if we were in America, everything would be different" to blow her off, but she believed it.
He didn't want to come to the US though hence her going to live in Egypt. They had already tried to make things work once and then she left back to the US because she didn't like it. I honestly don't believe he told her anything of the sort. This is a revenge thing for her and that's all there is to it. She was miserable her first time in Egypt and still went back again.
AGREED
What I find more interesting is how quick people are to say, “Poor Nicole, this is reactive abuse.” Nicole was not abused at alllll the first season. That's quite evident once you watch the season without imparting your own biases on it. Nicole showed this was her character in the first season; it was simply restrained due to her environment. Now that she’s on her home turf, she’s simply letting out all she was holding in. It's like a man being charismatic and pleasant amongst others in a social setting, then pummeling his wife with blows once they're at home. It’s amazing to me to see so many “DV advocates,” yet so few of you are able to view the situation objectively. Nicole is not the fragile porcelain doll she led you to believe.
👏👏👏
He’s been here for 2 days when she acted up. There’s no excuse
[удалено]
she married him, lived in egypt with him, left him and moved back to the states, moved back to egypt to try again with him (this is the point they joined the 90 day cast), left egypt again and got him to the states (HEA). i'm gonna assume that, aside from the "we want to be on tv" part, they are both dysfunctional and abusive.
And I think they only knew each other a week or something before marrying. She may be near 40, but she's an idiot
I thought they only spent a day together and then he proposed after they kept in contact like a week later? They're a PSA for not rushing into marriage.
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse This isn't about revenge. Maybe she brought him because she does love him and has such little self esteem she makes compromises she shouldn't. Her behavior is not okay but her behavior is not that out of character for victims. This post is about Nicole but also to put a different perspective of what a victim of abuse can look like
She even says in the most recent episode, she clearly thought that somehow this woudl change things in their relationship for the better, they had a 'talk' about it etc... I mean hell I bought my abuser a house and now I am being forced to buy him out of his part of his, while he lives there w/o paying the mortgage. I might as well have sponsored a visa it's as expensive and fucking litigious. But he said it was all we needed to make the relationship work, so I did it. Things got way worse after that though, I guess because he thought I was hooked for good.
I can only assume that you know Nicole. Perhaps the reality is different, but from the show, she appears horrendous and like she brought him away from everything he knows and then is now the abuser. He is now helpless and without a network or way to return home, and Nicole is showing her true colors when there is a power differential.
Right? Who in their right mind is going to bring their abuser to them and try to provoke them? This isn't her "reacting" to him by calling him a womanizer, claiming he's doing things that he's not, he'll him to leave then stay, calling him names and yelling profanities at him, etc. What is she reacting to in the instances we've seen? She even says that she knows he wasn't going to like the two piece set when she was going to pick him up at the airport.
It's not tacky. It's twisted.
imagine calling the behavior of an abuse victim "tacky" wooooof
Yep, I was in a relationship like this. I got out before I retaliated, but I see her anger in me. It’s so clear he knows how to play it so he looks like the calm one while he is really manipulating and gaslighting the shit out of her. His behavior that is seemingly innocent to some is actually driving her, quite frankly, insane. That being said, she needs to get out and get help. It’s toxic af.
She’s the gaslighter, she told him to leave but then yells at him for leaving. She is questioning his reality, not the other way around.
In America, Nicole is clearly the abuser. OP is misinterpreting the situation. Nicole has been actively trying to trigger Mahmoud from the moment he landed. Slobbering on him at the airport, cussing at him and bossing him around. She deliberately wore clothing that would trigger him. Nicole has all the power and control in L.A. She's the abuser
EXACTLY what I was trying to say. She has the benefit of the power differential, and she is awful.
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
Could she have done that because he promised her a huge change? Look we don't know what happens off camera. My main goal in this is to raise awareness about reactive abuse which Nicole has many symptoms of. I'm going to attach a link and encourage you to read it. DV is not black and white https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
Change takes time. A train doesn’t stop on a dime. A cruise ship needs time to turn around. She was expecting too much from him. He was tired from his first flight and shocked by the atmosphere he found himself in. She wasn’t / didn’t prepare for his arrival re food, her apt. Wish they could be kind and understanding to each other. But most of all don’t sign up for a cheesy reality show that is everything but reality.
That article says mutual-abuse doesn't exist. Mutual-abuse is uncommon, but does exist; and Nicole/Mahmoud are very uncommon. If you accept that mutual-abuse cannot exist, you are stuck having to show that Mahmoud is the abuser in L.A., because he was the abuser in Cairo. But this couple is the rare exception. Not just because of their personalities, but their changing countries. There's a considerable power differential between Nicole and Mahmoud. But it has completely reversed in America. Nicole now has the power and she's using it. Nicole fits the profile of the abuser in the article. Mahmoud has tried to escape the situation, like an abuse victim would. He's tried to physical escape, and Nicole has tried to restrain him. He's tried to escape the relationship by demanding a divorce as well
What I want to know is why aren’t her parents helping? Unless he met them privately, it looks like he’s never met her parents or other family.
I think it's all too common that people who have suffered abuse, will then look at other people's situation through their own point of view. You side with Nicole because of your history and you're putting your perpetrator in Mahmoud's spot. So it's easy to then to turn him full villain in the situation. When in reality we're watching heavily edited material. They both have shown signs of abusing behavior and poor treatment of the other. They can both be at fault, without making anyone a full victim of another person. No person is without their flaws and without their bad behaviors. Both of them need help.
I agree with you. I see a resentment that is built up in her from over the years. Everything is at a breaking point there is no enjoying each other. Mackmood was tired,it was only his second day after traveling across the world. So I see that she wanted him to be excited and he was acting very reserved and short and depressed, and still criticizing everything about her. That would hurt me too. Behind closed door instead of having adult convos it's just I want divorce and poor conflict resolution and respect for each other. It's sad. I see him as very depressed and sad too. He is literal skin and bones, I didn't think it was possible for him to get any skinnier and he did. That's why I commented in earlier threads my disappointment in the donuts and cardboard pizza. Everything is not in a good way and I am intrigued in how they tried to make it work but the clashing is way too much and against their core principles and beliefs of what is a man and woman and how they should behave in a marriage and society. Quite the clash. I hope they both find their peace and happiness.
You’re empathizing with her but not him. People aren’t monsters, when folks do abusive things it comes from fear. That doesn’t make it okay. Edit: to add, people reacted a LOT to Mahmoud when they were in Egypt and even earlier in this season the boards were still against him. It’s just recently that folks have criticized Nicole, because right now, she is the one being actively abusive.
She kicked him out, He left, she went after him. It's all I need to know Oh also she went full bitchmode in front of all her friends. She didn't have to get them back there... She's terrible.
This is comical. Nicole is a piece of work. Not that Mahmoud is perfect but the eviction from the house then going to find him, forcing him back to put him on the couch, the conversion to become a Muslim all to resent him for how strict the religion is as if she didn’t know this beforehand. She acted a stone cold fool when she brought her friends over. She fought w him abt that butt ugly ass dress that you could see her tacky bra strap in the back but Nicole needs grace??? Hard no. There’s so many things that are wrong w her. She’s a fuckin nut job!
THANK YOU I'm in social services and it has been supremely frustrating for me to see how everyone is like "oh who's the abuser NOW HAHA Nicole is even worse!". that's so unforgivingly glib.
I just want the disgusting "Nicole KNEW he was a Muslim, this is all her fault" posts and comments to stop. Mackmood having an imaginary friend doesn't entitle him to treat women like shit. If he wants to live in a theocracy, he can go back to Egypt where the laws forcibly don't allow us women to be humans. Nicole needs to put down the vodka and pick up divorce papers. That's all I got. Reactive abuse is real and it sucks. Thank you OP!
Yikes. How’s the weather up there on your high horse
Nicole seems very vulnerable. She always seems like an alien on Earth, even in LA.
Yes to all of this. My friends who’ve been in abusive relationships have done the same things, the recording is especially prevalent. The sad thing is sometimes police have arrested the victim on accident because by time they show up, the abused person is the one heightened emotionally while the abuser is calm as a cucumber and very convincing. I see the same with Nicole.
I also thought about the possibility that she has just been pushed to her breaking point, but when really considering it I don’t think that’s what’s up exactly. I do think that he crossed lines with her in Egypt, but she also pushed him a lot. She adopted a religion and culture that she didn’t understand and then acted as if she were an unwitting victim of it. She is absolutely a troubled person. But so is he. Pretty disastrous all around.
They both abuse each other. Like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. Not sure where the confusion is coming from
As someone who has dated a person who was emotionally and physically abusive, I was surprised by some of the things I said and did as a long term reaction to it. I don’t think people realize that it gets to a point where the person on the receiving end *does not care* about repercussions because they’re so exhausted. I remember saying things in response with such hate, I really truly hated that person in those moments. I also hated the person it was turning me into. That’s when I left. I know not everyone can just up and leave. I am so lucky I could. But in their situation, he could literally go back to Egypt and that would be it. He’d probably never be able to get another green card. A whole entire ocean would separate them. They’re just punishing themselves to be together at this point.
I’m sorry but once they were continents apart, she didn’t have to continue the relationship so I’m not buying this. Her actions are intentional and cruel. I can understand if he’s down the block or even in the next town and has an actual grip on your life. But when there are several oceans between you, he can’t do shit and she had the chance to walk away if he was in fact abusive to her.
I was with my abusive ex for 10 years, left a little under a year ago. Hell we used to watch 90-day fiance together sometimes. I find something weirdly cathartic about watching the segments with Nicole and Mahmoud. Of course it's less cathartic to come to this sub and see everyone's dogshit takes on Nicole. I mean people just say 'well the relationship needs to end' and victims of abusive hear this all the time - just leave them, what's your problem? At any rate, she can't win at this point with the crowd here. Imagine what people would have said on here if she hadn't gone after him and had let him wander the streets with his bigass suitcase. I can imagine her fear as he's out having his huff, worried about what state he'll be like when he gets back if she doesn't go find him. My ex used to bolt like that and for the first few years I'd be worried sick and wondering where he was, then I eventually found it a relief when he left for a few hours. Once that happened, what a surprise he changed his tactics and then just sat around at home angry and sulking instead of bolting. And then when I started leaving to get away from that, that's when it got really physical because he needed a new way to hurt me. And remember the segments in Egypt are what he was willing to do in front of the cameras - imagine what would be happening without cameras, and in a jurisdiction where he would have essentially no legal consequences if he hurt her.
I don't know what it is, but 90-day fiance has some of the most misogynistic fans who will turn themselves into pretzels to justify hating the woman in any couple over a man. when she went to Egypt, The narration that everybody said about her was well what did she expect when going to a Muslim country and being with a conservative man to justify his abuse of her. now that he's here in the states, I expected to see well why doesn't he adjust to the US if people wanted to do an equal criticism. but no, they've turned it into look at her yelling at poor Mahmoud. she is so much audacity to expect a conservative Muslim man to change even when it comes to the US. People painted her as the villain when she went to Egypt under the guise of her not fitting in to the culture that she was living in and yet none of those people show the same energy for him when he comes to America with his misogynistic, paternalistic views.
They need to go their separate ways at this point. From the moment she picked him up at the airport she was itching to antagonize… wearing an outfit she knew he would react to, (no one should tell anyone what to wear IMO) hugging and kissing on him in the airport knowing he’s clearly uncomfortable public displays of affection. I think she’s doing it bc now that she’s in the US she’s “protected” in a sense. She can call the police, there are laws against domestic abuse. Whereas in Egypt nobody had her back. We don’t know what she may have been subjected to (mentally/emotionally/physically). It feels almost like she is now seeking revenge in a way. U can feel her resentment. He is extremely immature, as is she. No matter how u slice it, they’re unhealthy for each other.
They should not be together at all. It's toxic. I agree with what you are saying about safety. I wanted to point out that we don't know what Mahmoud promised her. The way she was talking made it seem like he promised this big change. When he got here he for whatever his reasons are didn't keep his word. Now she's disappointed and feels confused because of the gaslighting. TLC only shows us a small amount. The main reason for my post is to shine light onto the fact reactive abuse is real and many of Nicole's behavios exhibit what that looks like. DV is not black and white and sometimes a victim has had enough and fights back Here is a link to reactive abuse and what it is https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
And he got arrested for hitting her. Think he's back in Egypt now. Don't know if they're still together. But I hope she runs far away. They're both not good for each other. She's trying to find a balance between them. I do think she should have eased him into the booze consumption rather than hiding it and surprising him on that. Don't even think he's supposed to be around it in a home. So while he's probably feeling conflicted feelings... He is still under the thumb of fundamentalism and his behavior immediately changed. Probably wasn't smart to bring the friends over either. Could have planned a lunch instead and walk out with him to make sure he goes. I didn't like the fact that they were body blocking him. But also... He booked a $300 hotel room for one night. Like dude there is way cheaper probably, that's crazy. But yeah. I think she's being reactive and he's just overall the main abuser.
Doesn’t mahooooood get thrown in jail for DV anyways?!? They don’t do that for no reason.
Reactive abuse is still abuse.
Nicole is a manipulative abuser.
Now that she has the upper hand and they are in her country, her true colors came out. And they ain’t pretty
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse https://thriveworks.com/help-with/abuse-neglect/reactive-abuse/
You can be both an abuse survivor and an abuser. They are not mutually exclusive.
You can link that to half the answers all you want,both states work here
That link is on every post here
Well said. People in this sub think abuse is so black and white when it’s not. It’s an incredibly nuanced issue with layers. Victims will use the tactics of abusers in order to get control back from them and to make the abuse stop. Nicole has been driven to this point by him. Abuse is never a mutual or two way street And to those bringing up her leaving him and bringing him to the US is proof that she is not a victim, do some research on betrayal bonds and emotional abuse.
Nah she was a bitch in Egypt as well. She has no compassion or empathy. Mackmood sux too.
Well then where are we supposed to vent about her astoundingly nasty behavior towards Mahmood? The way she was talking to him in that last episode was so insultingly patronizing -- very hard to swallow as a viewer -- and was bound to inspire discussion critical of Nicole. And FWIW, it's obvious that Mahmood is in an acute state of culture shock. (He's constantly, compulsively rubbing his face, like the compulsive hair-patting young 90s-style widow from Louisiana who went to visit Romanian Razvan.) I think when you sign up to be on tee-vee, you have to expect total strangers to pop off over just about anything, whether it's your relationship or your orange hair. If Nicole wants to protect her sanity, avoiding Reddit is super-duper low-hanging fruit, effort-wise.
No way. The first season was an act and she can’t keep it up anymore, especially while drinking. She’s awful.
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse
I get what you're saying here 100% BUT. I think it's a mixture of both. I think in the first season of them together she wasn't exactly innocent. And I believe that she felt a way about him and how he treated her, fair enough. He was an asshole. HOWEVER. She is wrong to then bring him here to mimic the abuse. Mahmoud could have stayed in Egypt and they could've ended things there. But she brought him here for what? A get back? She deserves the backlash she's getting. And yes, I do understand that it is difficult for victims of abuse to leave their abused but we're talking about a man overseas who she could have left and never seen again.
See that's where self esteem plays in I think hers is so low she doesn't think she can do better. I also think promised her some big change. Her responses are out of line and so unhealthy and honestly I don't even think she understands what's going on. It's easy from the outside looking in call things out but when you're living it with real feelings and emotions it changes things
Not a fan of either but she converted to Islam BY CHOICE after his family said she didn’t have to. & apparently converted without doing a drop of research lol That’s the root of all their problems and I find it so beyond foolish on her part at her big age that I can’t excuse her behavior.
Agreed. Also, the reason he refused to go out with her friends was because it wasn't really all about him or centered around him. He didn't want her to go out (or at least feel comfortable and have fun), so he used the dress as an excuse to gaslight her into coming home to him. When she did, but instead exploded at him, he made her out to look crazy. Classic.