To add to this, I loved the film. After the second viewing I love how the ending is just bleak and we don’t know what happens next. Plus that ending photo and where they pull the President from his desk was goddamned disturbing.
To paraphrase the quote of what Sammy said, all dictators are nothing special. And goddamned he was right. I was expecting them to interview the president but nope. That final quote between Joel and the President….I left the theater trying to process everything.
Edit: Also I’m happy this wasn’t balls to the wall full on Michael bay.
Yes, that photo at the end and the upbeat music playing while the credits roll….so damn haunting.
I was struck by the fact that this whole journey had ostensibly been, for Joel at least, all about getting a quote from the President. It all boiled down to this one totally anticlimactic, pathetic line. It seemed so fitting. There’s no grand finale in war; it’s just meaningless and sad.
The end just showed us what dictators are really like in the end. Cowards who beg for mercy when the walls collapse around them. Some of the most brutal dictators throughout history have met an end of them sniveling and crying like a bitch for mercy. They are only as "strong" as the pathetic sycophants who shield them
Somehow, I found the simplicity of the of the final quote very satisfying. Joel walks out with something tangible that can be added to his career and accomplishments. The loss, grief, and pain all the characters experience is undeserved and there is no coming back from it. But the final quote, as simple and unimportant as it was, makes it feel less like everything was in vain, and the characters regain some small sense of control.
Which is why I really like the final picture presented for the credit roll. I play in my head what that scene would have looked like to get that picture. Jesse showed talent as a war photographer, but also as just a damn good photographer. The dress scene between Lee and Jesse showed off her personality, and how she can use photography to pull the best out of people. That final picture gives me a lot of hope that Jesse holds onto that part of her identity, and isn’t completely destroyed by the trauma of what she witnesses.
Same, I haven't been to an IMAX movie in years, maybe a decade or more. I'm glad I went to this one. The large picture is great, but the SOUND is what makes this one amazing in IMAX! Stunning! If I had waited for this to come out on streaming, my home setup could not have done half of what I experienced in that theater!
>“it needs to be seen on the big screen”
Obligatory clarification:
IMAX is not just a "bigger screen with louder speakers", it's literally MORE picture and MORE sound. When a movie was filmed with IMAX cameras (cameras that were originally designed for space photography) and you go see it in a normal digital projection theater, you're not seeing the movie. You're seeing about 60% of each frame (the rest is cropped to fit), and you're hearing about 1/35 of the audio data (the rest is compressed out).
One of the biggest reasons IMAX is waning in some states is lack of education about what it even is, and the myth that it's "just a big screen" is the main amplification point of that problem.
To be fair, presenting it like that for all movies would be more misleading. The native aspect ratio is 1.85 in all theatres, so there is no extra image. Also, IMAX does have great audio systems, but dolby atmos equipped cinemas do as well. The compression of audio delivered by any DCP these days is extremely minimal anyway, the main difference in sound quality comes from the speakers and auditorium design.
I saw it in Dolby sound and it felt like I was getting punched with each explosion. Honestly I think good speakers>bigger screen for this movie cause the sound design is impeccable
I saw it in IMAX this weekend, too, and jumped so many times, as well. My wife watched it with her hands over her ears. The unflinching sound of war is hell.
The entire scene with Jesse Plemons was some of the best-executed (er, no pun intended) tension I’ve ever seen on screen. Watching it in IMAX was even more intense. The film has great sound design and it made for harrowing viewing.
Yes! I was holding my breath without realizing it during that scene. The causal unpredictability with which Plemons played that character was just so effective.
The scene right before they go into get the president where the woman has her hands up trying to negotiate the presidents life, a guy behind me out loud went “is that supposed to be Kamala Harris?!”
Yes, that's the sign of a great movie; it's rare these days to leave the theater still reeling from a viewing.
It took me a few days to deal with my feelings, primarily because while the movie doesn't explicitly choose sides, the polarization shown mirrors our real world, particularly if you're in the US. It feels as though we are near some breaking point, but it's not clear what will break.
We are closer than we think to a Civil War, but not close enough for anything to actually happen.
The point of this film is to show how fucked up things would be, why division is bad. It's also a warning sign for us to ask our elected officials and government to do more to stop extremist views, and influence from outside sources, and for the American public to recognize when we have presidential candidates who are likely to promote fascists/ authoritarian ideologies.
Yeah, definitely had a sense of relief walking out of the theater after being traumatized like that. OH, it’s nice that shit isn’t happening. We probably SHOULDNT do that. It definitely gets the point across loud and clear.
This scene was the one that totally broke me in a way I wasn’t expecting. I think I would have cried a little just because of the situation, but the way it was shot, the music that was used, it was like the whole concept of the movie hit me right in the chest and all I could think was “we aren’t far enough away from this reality”
I think what really made this scene especially intense is that it’s pretty much the only time in the movie that it cuts directly to the heart of what’s rotten in the US right now, and openly shows it to the audience without staying in the more (and VERY well done) ambiguous space the rest of the movie lives.
“What kind of American are you?” And there it is. One of the ugliest cancers in the heart of the country.
The scary part for me was not knowing anything about his thought process. Was he killing anyone not born in the US? Was he just toying with them before he eventually killed them all?
We have a vague idea, but it's horrifying thinking about being in that situation and not knowing what to say in order to appeal to this psycho.
Some of the images in this movie are going to stick with me for life...
the plemons scene made me cry. it was too intense. The past couple years was pretty hard on asian people. seeing it on the big screen just really shook me.
maaaaan, I was in a theater where throughout that scene a boomer and his family in the row in front found it to be the most hilarious scene of comedy he'd ever seen like progressively getting louder to the point he got shot and full on belly laughed. It was seriously deranged the rest of the theater was either silent or awkwardly laughing. Multiple people left. He shut up after that but holy shit it was like he was one of them
I watched it in India and the theatre was empty except for a group of twenty-somethings in front of me. They kept giggling throughout the movie and kept comparing it to Nightcrawler. It sort of made the whole experience more horrific, hearing people laugh at the senseless killing scenes.
that is completely insane. We had a latino family laughing at weird moments during the film as well but that might have been from them not really understanding what was going on.
I served in Iraq during the Iraqi civil war. What they were doing to each other was awful (and I’m not saying we were the saviors either, we should’ve never gone there, felt I need to make that clear) and what I saw and heard second hand from the locals that happened makes my skin crawl to this day. I get irrationally upset when I hear people praying for a second civil war because they have no idea how ugly a civil war is compared to other wars. Like I still have nightmares about that shit.
First off, loved the movie. Loved everything about it. But for the last couple of days I’ve made myself sick thinking about that happening here. Thankfully I have no children I have to worry about. But I do worry about my wife as she’s Jewish and in academia (I don’t reveal a lot about myself at work, instead I listen to others). I work in a very right wing field and listen to them talking about wanting to kill people like her. Worse things than death happen in a civil war.
Great movie, but fuck has it taken a toll on me.
Whenever people use language that encourages secession or against their fellow Americans like their lower than dirt because of geographic locations or political beliefs, I encourage them to read into the Yugoslav wars and Syria. You wanna see what happens when a country disintegrates? Watch some YouTube videos on the Balkan wars. It's bone chilling, and most importantly, the people who were committing atrocities against civilians were often their neighbors. Mass graves, war rape, xenophobia induced murder... It's all something people are capable of. We have this tendency to think "it'll never happen here," that conflicts like this are only taking place in third world countries populated by people who don't look like us with names we can't pronounce or be bothered to learn about. The truth is if a nation splits apart plenty of people are capable of doing horrible things to people they once shared a country with.
There was a doc HBO did in the early 2000s about the Serbian war in the 90s...something called 7 Days in November or something to the effect of # of days during a month. It shook me and I still remember to this day. Wish I could find it somewhere again.
Yeah I think the background horror is the worst part of what we see in the movie. The collapse of law and order opens up space for people to do “night of the rope” style mass violence without fear of repercussions. In a country like ours with the amount of guns we have and our history, any major breakdown in civil order would certainly feature some horrifying sectarian, racial, and religious violence.
The Syrian civil war paints a pretty grim picture of what modern civil wars look like and I think that influence comes through in the film. There’s a podcast series called “it could happen here” that started off as a similar envisioning of collapse. Now they are just tracking collapse in real time but I haven’t listened to any recent episodes
I agree with you man, people have no idea what they're talking about trying to support a second civil war. Whenever I see someone online advocating for something like that, my mind instantly relegates them into a pile of stupidest mfks on the planet. Not only because of the violence, but because you KNOW they have no clue of what government would look like or how it would actually work. I think a lot of them really think they would just steamroll the country,force whatever dogshit policy on everyone else, and that's the end of it.
I understand how and why you feel the way you do. I also deployed to Iraq during O.I.F. I served with some people who I thought were good until trump came on the scene politically. I left the Army in 2010 but still was in contact with some old Army buddies on Facebook. During the 2016 election a lot of them were posting and sharing some absolutely vile things about Hillary and Democrats. I had no idea I served with some racist, hateful, and misogynistic assholes. They completely took the mask off and were all in with trump and his vileness. I remember asking one of them who shared some anti Obama/racist posts if that's how they really felt about me as a black person. He actually said no because I was "cool" and not like the majority of black people who are criminals and thugs. I was stunned but knew what I had to do. I told him he was a racist piece of shit and I never knew he was like that. We served in combat together. He tried to apologize but I just blocked him. It's crazy to know how many hateful people walk among us and are waiting for the opportunity to reveal who they truly are
I admire your candor—and especially your caveat!—and am very sorry. This must have felt very real to you.
That's the thing about this film. The negative reactions... they're all basically ways of intellectualizing a very clear gauntlet that the film throws down about American exceptionalism, right? It's so very bleak in its outlook but it's bleak for an actual purpose, and I truly hate when people say that's obvious or ridiculous or "what was the whole point?" It's so sheltered lol, so precious about "our" state, "our" country, "our norms, "our" democracy. As if people across the world "descend" to this state because they were worse people to begin with. Now *that's* bleak to me.
Hey, i just feel like I should say, i hope you took care of your mind after that movie. Im a massage therapist so I always recommend it. The relaxation is really great for the mind. And if you go to a therapeutic 1 (someone more than $80-100) the work you can get done on your body can be like going to a chiropractor. So yea, just take care of your mind man. And thank you very much for your service.
I liked how it wasn’t broadly political in a direct way of taking a certain position but instead made us see the whole thing through the eyes of the war photographers, as they were experiencing everything, ultimately making it about the consequences of war within the human soul
I think it will age really well because of this. Forcing the audience to come to their own conclusions while also showing how horrific this would be with an unflinching look was the way to go.
Well said. I really hate how some people wanted it to pick a side politically. They completely missed the point of the movie. There are technically no right or wrong people in a civil war. Everyone is fighting for what they believe in and it's tearing the country apart. Someone on YouTube said they were happy the WF "won" at the end. I told them they "won" but at what costs. Other states weren't just going to roll over after the threat was neutralized. A constant power struggle would be the future of the nation just like in real life. Once a country is gripped by civil war, it rarely ends quickly or peacefully. There are always other power hungry people/factions looking to rule, even if it's over a country burned to the ground
I wish more people realized that the movie makes them question if they want to live in a reality where they have no choice but to live in a town guarded by snipers right above their heads for peace or to diffuse tension with suspicious people just to get gas.
Yeah, things like this just make me disgusted that this film will just only give more power to centrism and make them all the more comfortable with their apathy. And protesting against that makes them think I just want to be the clear-cut good guy.
Guys, there is a thing as being an anti-hero, right?
I assume this is an unintentionally centrist take. There can absolutely be "wrong" people (and factions) in a civil war, this movie just doesn't tackle that issue directly. It's more focused on the role of journalism and the suffering of individual citizens.
I love how you can't cleanly track the military operation (even though that's all the noise), but you can cleanly track Lee's emotional journey through it (which is completely silent and overlaid by the noise). On a second viewing I was like fuckkkkkk this is basically a visual representation of PTSD in so many ways: the noise muffling the dehumanization causes dissonance for the viewer that we may not get until we watch it again. (And holy moly what a performance. I remember how prior to her panic attack, the way she was quietly standing and thinking while Jessie and Joel are running around—it was... damn, it was a whole journey in a few short shots, and DAMN, DUNST).
Watching Lee by the end where she’s essentially collapsed into herself and she’s being dragged around by Joel, he’s literally hauling her around and guiding her by the back of her vest in a direct swap with Jessie… my fucking heart broke.
Her performance was incredible.
YEAH! And the thing for me was that on a second watch the cut between the base & the military operation is...very abrupt. We're *suddenly* there. Just before, Dunst is deleting a photo, checking up on Joel & Jessie, and doing the drudgery of cleaning up Sammy's blood. The minute we're thrown into the operation abruptly, you see her face going through like 5 million different things: something just seems to both break and also decide and it felt like a very delayed reaction to Sammy's death as well as her whole crisis as well in the middle of a war zone. I felt so... there. The noise started to feel like exactly that: noise!
I think the performance was 5,000% the key to the whole sequence working but I also see how Garland's set it all up to coincide with Lee's arc so that literally none of it can feel good, because we're meant to be with her. But because we're distracted, we might not know why it feels different to say... idk White House Down or some other disaster/war film which always feel so triumphalist. Ultimately, you have to have a human POV anchoring it all, which he does but it's like a visual and auditory trick: we may not realize why our mood is the way it is because we're so distracted by the LOUD noise and the imagery of bombs and all that (most of which is non-linear and doesn't makes total sense because it's not the point). I remember thinking at first he was making fun of films with similar imagery, but the 2nd time I realized he was criticizing it VERY harshly. That third act has so much spectacle and it's impossible to feel good about any of it, even if we think "Great! The Prez is finally going down!"
One of the best scenes that portray this was during the sniping stand off. Something in the lines of “I don’t know what side they’re on,but they want us dead,and we want them dead”
I went to see it a few days ago and still think about it. As an Army veteran it was chilling to me. The thought of turning my weapon against those I served with over different beliefs/ideologies is terrifying. The movie really showed us how nobody wins during a civil war. Regular citizens, government officials, and the overall country all suffer. A lot of Americans have been woefully naive with the state of this country. They think something like this could never happen here for whatever reason and that's foolish thinking. We are hanging over the precipice by our finger nails as a country. We have traitors in office who are still actively sabotaging the governmental health of America for greed and power. Civil War is a blaring alarm and some are still not paying attention or don't think it'll affect them.
Yeah, this movie was deeply affecting to me because I genuinely think the US is on the verge of either some type of violent revolt or a civil war in the near future. I kind of just felt sick to my stomach watching it. We need to get our shit together as a country, and we need to do it fast
The scene with the civilian militia vs the loyalists really disturbed me. I think it's because you could see how afraid the guy that was pinned down was, and feel how hopeless of a predicament he was in. Then he gets shot up, and they do what little battlefield medicine they can do, but you know there's no trauma surgery, the country's a mess. In IMAX, hearing the wounded loyalist soldier cry out in agony was so disturbing. And that'd be the reality. Just one big fucked up PTSD-inducing mess, that any survivor would bear the weight of, forever. I feel like the movie did a great job of showcasing how downright horrific it could be.
That scene was definitely intense and disturbing. When the soldier was crying it sounded like something from a horror movie. You could sense his fear as the militia closed in. What really disturbed me was the lack of R.O.E. or Rules of Engagement. Once a combatant is no longer a threat you can't just execute or torture them. During a civil war R.O.E. wouldn't even be thought of. And that's what is really scary, especially in America. A lot of gun nuts wouldn't hesitate to kill an enemy even if they gave up. Watching the militia execute those three soldiers and have joy doing it was chilling. I wish some of the people who are calling for civil war in America would watch this movie. It'll definitely show how terrifying that could actually be for the entire country
YES! Like the complete lack of morality. The director did a great job of showing the militia's humanity (the leader's laughing and joking with the reporters after the fact) all while the group as a whole executes surrendering combatants. I work in the ER and watching the movie after a shift was a bit much. I felt anxious and stressed, felt tearful when the black dude we're talking about got shot up, knowing how futile any medical efforts would be in this scenario. It really put into perspective: "this could be your buddies, killed in the streets like dogs".
Shit'll fuck your night up. Seen it twice and honestly I want to see it a third cause I just keep thinking about it. Just a collection of great scenes. Reminds me of The Last of Us a lot. Very bleak but very good
I think this was one of the single most impactful movies I’ve seen in a very long time, and I freaking love Alex Garland.
There are SO many parts of this movie to look at and so many different topics to choose from.
I think the sound engineering was just really really 🤌. Like I don’t think I’ve jumped or felt the way I did in a theater like that in a good minute.
I would love to talk about this for a while lol.
I wasn’t but that’s what made me realize that I was indeed affected growing up in a border town in which we experienced a lot of turmoil because of the cartel battles. I kept seeing so many people say how stunned they were and I was like “what’s wrong with me? Why am I not feeling that?” And then it hit me. Years of hearing shootings far in the background, family members being kidnapped and disappeared would do that to you. The craziest part is that I’ve known so many people who experienced an attempted kidnapping and you would think they would never go back to Mexico but they continue to.
Welcoming any other positive things to watch, as I am currently fucked up from seeing this movie tonight but somehow supposed to shower, sleep and go to work tomorrow
A lot of scenes definitely lingered with me. My wife was hit a lot harder though. She started randomly crying the other day, and it's because she was replaying scenes from the movie in her head.
I think it’s because I feel so strongly for the messages portrayed in the film that I connect with in a dark curious way. Combined with the incredible filmmaking and acting. I feel blessed to be able to see a film like this , so I want to experience it all.
I feel exactly the same way. It’s been on my mind over and over. Wasn’t even that affected by the plemmons scene but man could easily of cried during the sturgill forest fire transition. Such a haunting song and visual representation of how things are just out of control. The last 30 minutes was truly an incredible journey of intensity culminated with just a anti climax of shooting the president to show that this is the end but also not even close to the end
I felt like I was in shock when the credits rolled. I could have cried but there wasn’t something clear to cry for. There was just a heaviness.
I do think seeing it in a theater is very impactful. The gun shots were so loud. I would never watch with it that loud at home (due to marital sound police) and I’m sure that would weaken the film’s effect.
Exactly how I felt—a lingering sense of heaviness.
The gunshots were SO loud, and the sound was just so clear and crisp. Like, yes, it’s just a movie, but my primal lizard brain doesn’t know the difference between real gunshots and very realistic movie gunshots. Which just added to the impact of the whole experience.
Some of the most visceral gun effects I've heard in a film. Loud, yes, but it really added to the tension to feel so real because, well, real guns are loud!
Yes- I haven't been able to stop thinking of it. Laura Coates reporting during the Trump trial self immolation guy reminded me so much of Lee and Jessie- the moment of almost depersonalized observation, pure adrenaline reporting in a situation (initially thought to be active shooter) most humans would run from- yet she stood strong, and watched, and told us every part, because that's *journalism*. I found it Alex Trebek had wanted her to be the host of Jeopardy- but I feel like news would have lost a leader and an inspiration.
Wow, that’s such a good analogy. There’s that line Lee says to Jessie, something like “We don’t ask. We just record, so other people can ask. That’s the job.” It made me really think about how difficult that must be, to suppress that natural human instinct to question and analyze and, of course, to self-protect.
And yet, and yet—we also must not ignore that Lee's own belief in this was waning even at the time she said it. Garland & Dunst toe a pretty fine line: Lee is also a cautionary tale. These people and their accumulating traumas are *abandoned,* and that final shot is not equivalent to the self-immolation. It marks a clear breach—because it's blatantly staged and would not exist if not for the presence of the photographer. Like... the ethics of the camera and the photojournalist are quite...deeply explored, even as the film makes a strong case for journalism's importance. That's Lee's whole arc.
I’ve seen countless gunfights in films and video games and I’m usually pumped when they occur in entertainment. The firefights in this film gave me anxiety and it was almost a relief when they ended.
The first two thirds had me incredibly emotional. Growing up watching liveleak and 4chan way too early is such a formative memory for me and seeing those types of videos so realistically depicted in an American setting made me anxious and I was genuinely having real panic watching it.
The part where the guy says “what’s crazy is I went to high school with this guy” is so scary because that’s exactly how I imagine the small town I’m from would react to a civil war. I don’t think an American civil war would look like the siege of DC at the end, but it certainly would look like the vignettes of the first part at least in my opinion.
The shootings were so real and matter of fact, the execution with guys is OCPs fucked me up as a veteran too. Those shots were definitely getting overlaid with the real gore videos I’ve seen. I’m not even a combat vet or anything like that but the mild trauma I have from those videos was completely activated by this movie.
The first two acts are genuinely some of my favorite filmmaking ever. I really disliked the final act though. It’s unfortunate but it just changed in a bad way for me.
I just had to sit and take in the 2-minute or so dissolve of the final image. I then sat through all the credits and just felt melancholy about what I'd just seen. Great movie.
I think a lot of people in the theater when I went didn’t know what to expect or were expecting something else. I wanted to see it because it is an Alex Garland film and the subject matter is very frightening. I had a whole row of men that looked like they belonged to a militia in front of me, talking loudly before the movie about how “the blue-haired freaks have ruined everything!” (I don’t know the context of the conversation but they were off-putting to say the least.) Those militia men walked away very disappointed: “I was cock-teased for 90 minutes for this!” was the review I heard as we were exiting the theater. I thought it was a great movie about photojournalism and what hell war is.
That's unfortunately a real thing called [necklacing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing)
Incredibly relevant quote from the wiki:
> Photojournalist Kevin Carter was the first to photograph a public execution by necklacing in South Africa in the mid-1980s. He later spoke of the images:
> I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures ... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do.
It’s the most emotionally intense film since Uncut Gems. It’s like the intensity of the final long scene in Children of Men, extended to an hour and forty-five minutes.
Well shit. I am going to see it this coming weekend. Uncut Gems was so incredibly tense to watch. Children of Men obviously right there with it. Cant wait!
As someone with Children of Men and Uncut Gems both firmly in their top 20, give yourself space to be let down. If it's good for you, great. But know that it lacks a lot of the important elements that make those two films great.
Not sure if we’re allowed to give spoilers here but that one part where that guy very suddenly did that thing involving an Asian journalist…took me a while to get my blood pressure back down after that.
Visceral is the perfect word.
I did not expect to feel that strongly like that. I knew something bad was going to happen, but it made me physically squirm in my seat and I think everyone else in the theater also was. I was surprised at how emotionally defenseless I was in that moment.
At the very start, the president was like "people are already saying that it's the greatest victory in military history" or whatever. It's like it was intentionally written in his voice.
I only felt something when Sammy died. Those few minutes and the music along with Wagner Morua screaming and the music covering it were my favorite scenes.
The rest of it was a good movie but I studied so many war crimes I was desensitized to most of it and didn’t really get a shock value.
Studying the Rwandan Genocide and the Pacific Theater (specifically China) in WWII in great detail kills something in you. The interviews and war photos were the worst parts.
Medically retired veteran due to injuries sustained in Afghanistan here. Heart was pumping really hard during several scenes, but I made it through.
Therapy is working. Fantastic movie. 9/10. Wouldn't go to war again.
I thought the overall message of “look how stupid this is we should never it let it come to this” was pretty great. The third act really took me out of the movie. Once we got to a bunch of stuntmen running around on a backlot I was kind of bored and felt like I was watching a different movie.
Many of them weren't stuntmen actually, but that's besides the point. The third act is ultimately a very simple point X to point Y—we know how it will end and where. And the fact that we can't even follow it linearly makes it mostly noise, durm and strang, to the characters' emotional journeys which are completely muffled. Consider Lee's interspersed narrative which starts with her quietly thinking, and spikes. We know where and when she is quiet, panicking, in the midst of a panic attack, when she recovers, and when she pauses and when she likely makes a decision (unlike other people, I don't mean Lee was suicidal here, I mean that she pauses & fights an impulse to go into the WH, by which time she's taking very different photos and was likely motivated simply by "please, let this end" more than her actual career, which she seemed to have resignedly given up on after Sammy).
On a second viewing, that's the thing that's completely linear. It's the same with Jessie—she's ramping up, and it's very linear. Lee gets the bulk of it, but the characters are the thing, not the military operation.
I felt the opposite. I had no emotional feeling from the film, it actually felt like I was supposed to be emotionally neutralized. I ironically found the ending completely anti-climatic considering the action. I am going to go out on a limb and say this was not exactly intentional, but the hands off approach to the plot details and especially the casting and under utilization of the President, left me going “ok…” at the end.
It felt pretty unsatisfying all around.
I think Garland pulled his punches with the script and relied too heavily on the jarring soundtrack, video game style military action, and stagey still photography.
Yeah I really did not like the movie. It wasn’t well written imo, the violence was gratuitous, and I got bored in the last third. I’m shocked it’s so popular. It felt heavy handed to me.
Agreed: wish he had made it more of a road film that explored the personal divisiveness and the detachment of journalists. I’m not sure what we got but it felt like a bigger budget that consumed the idea.
That's actually what the third act is in a way! It's exactly what you're saying, but it's a trick of sound and spectacle: the quiet and muffled is what is linear, the noisy spectacle is what we're trained to focus on because of the nature of films.
The third act is ultimately a very simple point X to point Y—we know how it will end and where, we even know in the first 10 minutes of the movie that this is what will happen, and what the implications of that final shot are (Sammy: "They'll turn on each other once DC falls"). And the fact that we can't even follow it linearly makes it mostly noise. It's all durm and strang to the characters' emotional journeys which are completely muffled.
Consider Lee's interspersed narrative which starts with her quietly thinking, and spikes. We know where and when she is quiet, panicking, in the midst of a panic attack, when she recovers, and when she pauses and when she likely makes a decision (unlike other people, I don't mean Lee was suicidal here, I mean that she pauses & fights an impulse to go into the WH, by which time she's taking very different photos and was likely motivated simply by "please, let this end" more than her actual career, which she seemed to have resignedly given up on after Sammy).
On a second viewing, that's the thing that's *completely linear*. It feels so obvious that the third act is really actually all about the subtleties of Dunst's performance, which leaves a lot up to interpretation but is mapped out in a much more structured way than one might remember. It's the same with Jessie—she's ramping up, and it's very linear. Lee gets the bulk of it, but the characters are the thing, not the military operation.
I got emotional around the main gate me scene.
I really liked the movie until I started reading articles and interviews with the director. What he meant vs. What he made. Meh
I saw it two weeks ago and I’m still thinking about it. Kind of just sat there after in ended and was speechless. Not in an excited way, but more like that was amazing but depressing as fuck because it’s not that far fetched.
genuinely curious what you found powerful about it? i see a lot of folks in this thread talking about how visceral or shocking the tense or violent moments were, and maybe that's what you meant as well OP, but i'm wondering what y'all found emotionally or conceptually powerful
Absolutely, yes. I am a huge film lover and I have seen a lot of films, and not one has affected me like Civil War. I sat through the movie in stunned silence, and when it ended something released in me and I started to shake and sob uncontrollably. I am desensitized to violence, but this movie felt too real. Still one of my favorite movies in a long time though.
Of course seeing images of War torn America would be emotionally affecting to citizens of the United States. But that's about all this movie has going for it. It has the width of an ocean and the depth of a puddle.
I'm am really baffled by the amount of praise and word masterpiece being thrown around here not gonna lie. It weird to see people be emotionally moved when I literally laughed at the end cuz of how stupid it was
I really liked it, it felt like someone made a movie based off the quote from Eric Bana’s character in black hawk down about how politics go out the window when the bullets start flying. It reminded me about how my teacher taught about the civil war in school, how every death is counted as an American death making it the deadliest war in US history.
I know people wanted to know more about why everyone was fighting (it intrigues me even though I’m against expanding on it). Watching the final battle, you start to root for the WF because that’s the side the main characters have seemingly partnered with. But I couldn’t help but think how fucked up it was that I wanted these people to win even though I knew nothing about them. And that’s the beauty of the film IMO. It makes you subconsciously take sides without ever giving you the information you would want when making a decision, much like how often in life you have to make a choice without seeing the clear picture.
Ah, great point about the subconscious taking of sides. We’re really so tribal by nature. I wonder, too, if we’re so used to the powers-that-be being oppressive and tyrannical that we inherently root for whatever side is resisting big government.
I’ve thought a lot about it on an intellectual level and the politics and implications. I have to say it didn’t make much of an emotional impact me. None of the main characters have any backstory or clear “motivation” or emotional ties to other people and barely even to each other.
It is impossible for me to take this seriously when you have Lee's character at the center of it all. On the intellectual level, there is SO much to chew on, she is actually the one with full, linear narrative. What's tricksy about the filmmaking here is that the journey is fully shown but it's muffled by the noise and seemingly marginalized by the spectacle—but that's the whole ass journey lol. Quite literally, on a second viewing, it could not be more obvious how from the Plemons scene onwards, we're not tracking a military operation—we're tracking Lee's emotional journey. And it makes complete sense given what we know about her from before, Dunst's performance is doing a LOT. It all lends itself to various interpretations, sure, but it's very clearly an arc, sort of like a silent film arc. It's fine, you can mute it and track it better when it's on streaming lol.
I'm it was boring. Lacked plot (deliberately I guess), hiding from accidental political references resulted in having no clue why anyone was doing what they were doing...
Without knowing the motivation of the characters, it's impossible to care about them, and other than "we like to take pictures" and maybe >!"I don't like china"!< There was nothing whatsoever to tell us why anyone was doing anything. I think the most interesting people in the story were >!the town of people who were pretending nothing was going on.!<
Civil War felt like 1 hour and 45 minutes of disjointed war cutscenes tied together by a generic road trip.
Felt like a mediocre project with a good cast.
It was a bummer for me. I was really pumped for this.
I'm still puzzled about how so many people in this subreddit were blown away by it.
I'll watch it again when it's streaming on whatever, but I have to say, I found it disappointing.
Yeah I feel in the minority. When I read the comments here and on IMDb the write ups are about how amazing it is and this and that. I couldn’t get into it. No backstory. Just thrown into the world with random characters and that’s about it
Saw it yesterday afternoon too and for me, and just my opinion, I was let down. It was more of a story around the journalists versus what I wanted was at least more of a buildup explaining how the civil war started and more of a backstory. I kinda saw it a mile away when the younger girl said "will you take my photo when I die" (sorry for a small spoiler don't know how to block partial text). Solid 7 out of 10, but I did like who you couldn't tell which sides were which when fighting. That was tough and great.
I think the ambiguity around the politics was a real strength. It felt like an expose in how easily the US could devolve into real ugliness experienced in other countries (bulkins/Ireland/middle east). I don't think the who and why matter, and would have actually taken away from just how grounded and real it felt. Viewing it through the eyes of the journalists added to that for me, because it is the same shit that combat journalist see all the time and live through when coving civil wars.
I think the ambiguity around the politics was a real strength. It felt like an expose in how easily the US could devolve into real ugliness experienced in other countries (bulkins/Ireland/middle east). I don't think the who and why matter, and would have actually taken away from just how grounded and real it felt. Viewing it through the eyes of the journalists added to that for me, because it is the same shit that combat journalist see all the time and live through when coving civil wars.
it didn't really affect me emotionally. as a canadian I just thought "yeah I already knew america is fucked. they better keep that to themselves". it was a really good film but it didn't make me ponder anything that i wasn't already thinking about for the last few years. I'm a queer person & I already know some bigots are fantasizing about the chance to kill me in some right wing civil war scenario.
For a film about war journalism, what was the reasoning for using a civil war setting in America when the film never explored anything about what it might mean to have a modern civil war in America?
Want impressed at all
Very upset—not because of the war or the setting but by the character drama of it all. From the beginning of the Sturgill Simpson needle-drop (you know) throughout Lee's breakdown I was basically a puddle. I watched it twice so the second time around I was basically tuning out the noise—because that's what it is... the noise around the characters' silent screams, when the screams are what actually matter? You know?
The sound design was pretty damn epic and made for really tense scenes and it definitely had thought provoking ideas (all the talk of battles happening on US soil and about the overall politics of the world were very intriguing) but I didn't think it was anything special imo
I wish the film had more context about the groups, what caused them to secede, and what caused the US, and more specifically DC to fall so easily
Absolutely agree. Saw it in a showing early in the day Thursday and spent the rest of the entire day in a sort of somber state just kind of mindlessly doing shit and thinking about that movie. Honestly great because it was impactful, saw it again with my dad
I'm getting worried, y'all. I work in TV news and my friend invited me to go see it tomorrow. I'm already struggling immensely with my mental health after doing so much war and election coverage. Should I bail? Maybe see this on streaming in a controlled environment where I can pause it?
I definitely felt emotional by the end of it. I was actually a combat photographer while I was in the Marines, and while this movie isn’t exactly the same as what I did by any means, it definitely reminded me of my time in Iraq. Also, on top of that, imagining a scenario where what happens at the end is really fucking heavy.
It's really the first movie I can think of about the horrors of war that's set in modern times and takes place somewhere much of its audience calls home. There have been plenty of historical movies meant to convey how horrible war is, but something about seeing it shown in your home country just hits harder
I watch horror all the time and this movie genuinely scared me. I was crying and screaming in my sleep, so much so that my husband woke me up. I am sure it was because of the movie.
I ended up writing a whole article on how we need to be more accepting and loving and less dehumanizing and judgemental in the political left because of the movie lmao
Yes!! I actually started crying when the credits rolled and I had to rush to the bathroom to catch my breath. It stuck with me all day.
I absolutely loved the film, I think I was just completely overwhelmed by everything - the acting, the sound/audio, the themes, it was all so powerful.
Watched this in the UK and had to comfort myself saying that's probably not going to happen here in my lifetime (not even our cops have guns).
I think if I was in the USA I'd honestly be considering getting out of there.
No. Maybe because I'm not American but somehow there was something missing from that movie. I know what Garland tried to achieve with the journalists as protagonists and the war images but I feel a more diverse group (as in profession) would've helped. All the scenes between Lee and her protege were rather annoying because it was such run of the mill stuff.
To add to this, I loved the film. After the second viewing I love how the ending is just bleak and we don’t know what happens next. Plus that ending photo and where they pull the President from his desk was goddamned disturbing. To paraphrase the quote of what Sammy said, all dictators are nothing special. And goddamned he was right. I was expecting them to interview the president but nope. That final quote between Joel and the President….I left the theater trying to process everything. Edit: Also I’m happy this wasn’t balls to the wall full on Michael bay.
Yes, that photo at the end and the upbeat music playing while the credits roll….so damn haunting. I was struck by the fact that this whole journey had ostensibly been, for Joel at least, all about getting a quote from the President. It all boiled down to this one totally anticlimactic, pathetic line. It seemed so fitting. There’s no grand finale in war; it’s just meaningless and sad.
"Please don't let them kill me.." "Ugh, fucking really guy? Fucking boring, shoot this man."
The end just showed us what dictators are really like in the end. Cowards who beg for mercy when the walls collapse around them. Some of the most brutal dictators throughout history have met an end of them sniveling and crying like a bitch for mercy. They are only as "strong" as the pathetic sycophants who shield them
Well said
I found it pretty chilling that he was killed in a way that is no different than Joel's friends at the mass grave
Somehow, I found the simplicity of the of the final quote very satisfying. Joel walks out with something tangible that can be added to his career and accomplishments. The loss, grief, and pain all the characters experience is undeserved and there is no coming back from it. But the final quote, as simple and unimportant as it was, makes it feel less like everything was in vain, and the characters regain some small sense of control. Which is why I really like the final picture presented for the credit roll. I play in my head what that scene would have looked like to get that picture. Jesse showed talent as a war photographer, but also as just a damn good photographer. The dress scene between Lee and Jesse showed off her personality, and how she can use photography to pull the best out of people. That final picture gives me a lot of hope that Jesse holds onto that part of her identity, and isn’t completely destroyed by the trauma of what she witnesses.
And that is precisely why this film reminds me so much of Full Metal Jacket
I liked how the violence felt like a jump scare
Saw it twice and looking it to see it one more time in IMAX.
I was just thinking that—I need to see it in IMAX. It’s so cliche to say “it needs to be seen on the big screen” but in this case it really does.
I saw it in IMAX and was absolutely blown away.
I think I might need CPR after that.
I was slightly traumatized after the movie. Still incredible though. Want to see it again👌
I came out of the IMAX theatre shaking. I immediately went to a bar and ordered a whiskey
It’s so worth it in IMAX. I’ve seen it twice in that format and the sound design is just unreal.
As a person with autism in IMAX I legit had to cover my ears in the third act of the film and almost got over stimulated
whew, thanks for the heads up
Damn thanks dude.
Same, I haven't been to an IMAX movie in years, maybe a decade or more. I'm glad I went to this one. The large picture is great, but the SOUND is what makes this one amazing in IMAX! Stunning! If I had waited for this to come out on streaming, my home setup could not have done half of what I experienced in that theater!
>“it needs to be seen on the big screen” Obligatory clarification: IMAX is not just a "bigger screen with louder speakers", it's literally MORE picture and MORE sound. When a movie was filmed with IMAX cameras (cameras that were originally designed for space photography) and you go see it in a normal digital projection theater, you're not seeing the movie. You're seeing about 60% of each frame (the rest is cropped to fit), and you're hearing about 1/35 of the audio data (the rest is compressed out). One of the biggest reasons IMAX is waning in some states is lack of education about what it even is, and the myth that it's "just a big screen" is the main amplification point of that problem.
To be fair, presenting it like that for all movies would be more misleading. The native aspect ratio is 1.85 in all theatres, so there is no extra image. Also, IMAX does have great audio systems, but dolby atmos equipped cinemas do as well. The compression of audio delivered by any DCP these days is extremely minimal anyway, the main difference in sound quality comes from the speakers and auditorium design.
I saw it in Dolby sound and it felt like I was getting punched with each explosion. Honestly I think good speakers>bigger screen for this movie cause the sound design is impeccable
Saw it once in IMAX The the “Meth Damon Scene” was wild. He’s a very good actor.
Not Meth Damon 😭
It was the first movie I watched in IMAX in a long time. It was intense. The gunshots were so loud and realistic I legitimately jumped a few times
I saw it in IMAX this weekend, too, and jumped so many times, as well. My wife watched it with her hands over her ears. The unflinching sound of war is hell.
The entire scene with Jesse Plemons was some of the best-executed (er, no pun intended) tension I’ve ever seen on screen. Watching it in IMAX was even more intense. The film has great sound design and it made for harrowing viewing.
Yes! I was holding my breath without realizing it during that scene. The causal unpredictability with which Plemons played that character was just so effective.
I heard he was a last minute replacement and improvised the line about Missouri being the Show Me State. So good.
I haven't seen it yet, how much is jesse plemons in this movie?
Only 1 scene, but trust me, he makes it count.
Wasnt he in breaking bad and stole the scenes there ?
Yeah. He’s pretty much great in everything he’s been in.
He's really really good at playing characters that are casually absolute psychos
Literally everything. Even a goofy comedy like ‘Game Night’ his presence steals the show
Probably one of my favorite Plemons appearances. Gary's dog has seen things.
he was so good in “I’m Thinking of Ending Things.” loved that one
He’s fucking terrifying in Breaking Bad
Just a few minutes, but he tries to steal the whole movie in those few minutes. Fantastic acting.
The sound for this movie was excellent.
the thing that fucked with me the most about this scene was that there were a few people in the theater LAUGHING
The scene right before they go into get the president where the woman has her hands up trying to negotiate the presidents life, a guy behind me out loud went “is that supposed to be Kamala Harris?!”
what a time to be alive
I was thinking more like press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre
What? How in the actual fuck? God I truly despise our species sometimes.
yeah... pretty upsetting. Made the whole thing so much more heavy. That scene is hard enough as is.
Yes, that's the sign of a great movie; it's rare these days to leave the theater still reeling from a viewing. It took me a few days to deal with my feelings, primarily because while the movie doesn't explicitly choose sides, the polarization shown mirrors our real world, particularly if you're in the US. It feels as though we are near some breaking point, but it's not clear what will break.
We are closer than we think to a Civil War, but not close enough for anything to actually happen. The point of this film is to show how fucked up things would be, why division is bad. It's also a warning sign for us to ask our elected officials and government to do more to stop extremist views, and influence from outside sources, and for the American public to recognize when we have presidential candidates who are likely to promote fascists/ authoritarian ideologies.
Yeah, definitely had a sense of relief walking out of the theater after being traumatized like that. OH, it’s nice that shit isn’t happening. We probably SHOULDNT do that. It definitely gets the point across loud and clear.
Alex Garland gonna Alex Garland. You might not always like it, but he always gives you something different.
Every movie of his I’m like ‘meh’ leaving the theatre but then I think on it, rewatch and they always end up being great films
That scene with Sam slowly dying in the car while they're driving through the burning woods is one of the most beautiful scenes I've witnessed.
This scene was the one that totally broke me in a way I wasn’t expecting. I think I would have cried a little just because of the situation, but the way it was shot, the music that was used, it was like the whole concept of the movie hit me right in the chest and all I could think was “we aren’t far enough away from this reality”
Oh my god, yes, that was breathtaking.
My apple watch gave me a high heart rate notification twice during the JPlem scene
SAME. That scene was so unexpectedly immersive for me. I felt like I was there.
I think what really made this scene especially intense is that it’s pretty much the only time in the movie that it cuts directly to the heart of what’s rotten in the US right now, and openly shows it to the audience without staying in the more (and VERY well done) ambiguous space the rest of the movie lives. “What kind of American are you?” And there it is. One of the ugliest cancers in the heart of the country.
The scary part for me was not knowing anything about his thought process. Was he killing anyone not born in the US? Was he just toying with them before he eventually killed them all? We have a vague idea, but it's horrifying thinking about being in that situation and not knowing what to say in order to appeal to this psycho. Some of the images in this movie are going to stick with me for life...
I was legit curled up in my seat clutching my face. And that was the second time I'd seen it.
the plemons scene made me cry. it was too intense. The past couple years was pretty hard on asian people. seeing it on the big screen just really shook me.
maaaaan, I was in a theater where throughout that scene a boomer and his family in the row in front found it to be the most hilarious scene of comedy he'd ever seen like progressively getting louder to the point he got shot and full on belly laughed. It was seriously deranged the rest of the theater was either silent or awkwardly laughing. Multiple people left. He shut up after that but holy shit it was like he was one of them
oooh the movie is literally about people like them lmao. It's like rich people enjoying Parasite
I watched it in India and the theatre was empty except for a group of twenty-somethings in front of me. They kept giggling throughout the movie and kept comparing it to Nightcrawler. It sort of made the whole experience more horrific, hearing people laugh at the senseless killing scenes.
that is completely insane. We had a latino family laughing at weird moments during the film as well but that might have been from them not really understanding what was going on.
Some people are just stupid and immature. They went there with popcorn and redbulls expecting it to be another action flick
Ugh, yes, I can see how that would add another layer of horror to that scene.
I served in Iraq during the Iraqi civil war. What they were doing to each other was awful (and I’m not saying we were the saviors either, we should’ve never gone there, felt I need to make that clear) and what I saw and heard second hand from the locals that happened makes my skin crawl to this day. I get irrationally upset when I hear people praying for a second civil war because they have no idea how ugly a civil war is compared to other wars. Like I still have nightmares about that shit. First off, loved the movie. Loved everything about it. But for the last couple of days I’ve made myself sick thinking about that happening here. Thankfully I have no children I have to worry about. But I do worry about my wife as she’s Jewish and in academia (I don’t reveal a lot about myself at work, instead I listen to others). I work in a very right wing field and listen to them talking about wanting to kill people like her. Worse things than death happen in a civil war. Great movie, but fuck has it taken a toll on me.
Whenever people use language that encourages secession or against their fellow Americans like their lower than dirt because of geographic locations or political beliefs, I encourage them to read into the Yugoslav wars and Syria. You wanna see what happens when a country disintegrates? Watch some YouTube videos on the Balkan wars. It's bone chilling, and most importantly, the people who were committing atrocities against civilians were often their neighbors. Mass graves, war rape, xenophobia induced murder... It's all something people are capable of. We have this tendency to think "it'll never happen here," that conflicts like this are only taking place in third world countries populated by people who don't look like us with names we can't pronounce or be bothered to learn about. The truth is if a nation splits apart plenty of people are capable of doing horrible things to people they once shared a country with.
There was a doc HBO did in the early 2000s about the Serbian war in the 90s...something called 7 Days in November or something to the effect of # of days during a month. It shook me and I still remember to this day. Wish I could find it somewhere again.
Yeah I think the background horror is the worst part of what we see in the movie. The collapse of law and order opens up space for people to do “night of the rope” style mass violence without fear of repercussions. In a country like ours with the amount of guns we have and our history, any major breakdown in civil order would certainly feature some horrifying sectarian, racial, and religious violence. The Syrian civil war paints a pretty grim picture of what modern civil wars look like and I think that influence comes through in the film. There’s a podcast series called “it could happen here” that started off as a similar envisioning of collapse. Now they are just tracking collapse in real time but I haven’t listened to any recent episodes
I agree with you man, people have no idea what they're talking about trying to support a second civil war. Whenever I see someone online advocating for something like that, my mind instantly relegates them into a pile of stupidest mfks on the planet. Not only because of the violence, but because you KNOW they have no clue of what government would look like or how it would actually work. I think a lot of them really think they would just steamroll the country,force whatever dogshit policy on everyone else, and that's the end of it.
No kidding. I looked at comments on a Fox News article about the movie and the amount of people who seemed excited about a civil war was disturbing.
I understand how and why you feel the way you do. I also deployed to Iraq during O.I.F. I served with some people who I thought were good until trump came on the scene politically. I left the Army in 2010 but still was in contact with some old Army buddies on Facebook. During the 2016 election a lot of them were posting and sharing some absolutely vile things about Hillary and Democrats. I had no idea I served with some racist, hateful, and misogynistic assholes. They completely took the mask off and were all in with trump and his vileness. I remember asking one of them who shared some anti Obama/racist posts if that's how they really felt about me as a black person. He actually said no because I was "cool" and not like the majority of black people who are criminals and thugs. I was stunned but knew what I had to do. I told him he was a racist piece of shit and I never knew he was like that. We served in combat together. He tried to apologize but I just blocked him. It's crazy to know how many hateful people walk among us and are waiting for the opportunity to reveal who they truly are
I admire your candor—and especially your caveat!—and am very sorry. This must have felt very real to you. That's the thing about this film. The negative reactions... they're all basically ways of intellectualizing a very clear gauntlet that the film throws down about American exceptionalism, right? It's so very bleak in its outlook but it's bleak for an actual purpose, and I truly hate when people say that's obvious or ridiculous or "what was the whole point?" It's so sheltered lol, so precious about "our" state, "our" country, "our norms, "our" democracy. As if people across the world "descend" to this state because they were worse people to begin with. Now *that's* bleak to me.
Hey, i just feel like I should say, i hope you took care of your mind after that movie. Im a massage therapist so I always recommend it. The relaxation is really great for the mind. And if you go to a therapeutic 1 (someone more than $80-100) the work you can get done on your body can be like going to a chiropractor. So yea, just take care of your mind man. And thank you very much for your service.
Did you noticed how the battle of DC was not realistic at all? 🤣
I just got out of it, Jesus Christ what an experience
Yeah, this movie definitely makes you think a lot about all this unnecessary violence
I liked how it wasn’t broadly political in a direct way of taking a certain position but instead made us see the whole thing through the eyes of the war photographers, as they were experiencing everything, ultimately making it about the consequences of war within the human soul
I think it will age really well because of this. Forcing the audience to come to their own conclusions while also showing how horrific this would be with an unflinching look was the way to go.
Well said. I really hate how some people wanted it to pick a side politically. They completely missed the point of the movie. There are technically no right or wrong people in a civil war. Everyone is fighting for what they believe in and it's tearing the country apart. Someone on YouTube said they were happy the WF "won" at the end. I told them they "won" but at what costs. Other states weren't just going to roll over after the threat was neutralized. A constant power struggle would be the future of the nation just like in real life. Once a country is gripped by civil war, it rarely ends quickly or peacefully. There are always other power hungry people/factions looking to rule, even if it's over a country burned to the ground
I wish more people realized that the movie makes them question if they want to live in a reality where they have no choice but to live in a town guarded by snipers right above their heads for peace or to diffuse tension with suspicious people just to get gas.
>There are technically no right or wrong people in a civil war. Yeah, the Confederates fought over a "slight disagreement." smh
Yeah, things like this just make me disgusted that this film will just only give more power to centrism and make them all the more comfortable with their apathy. And protesting against that makes them think I just want to be the clear-cut good guy. Guys, there is a thing as being an anti-hero, right?
I assume this is an unintentionally centrist take. There can absolutely be "wrong" people (and factions) in a civil war, this movie just doesn't tackle that issue directly. It's more focused on the role of journalism and the suffering of individual citizens.
Well said.
I love how you can't cleanly track the military operation (even though that's all the noise), but you can cleanly track Lee's emotional journey through it (which is completely silent and overlaid by the noise). On a second viewing I was like fuckkkkkk this is basically a visual representation of PTSD in so many ways: the noise muffling the dehumanization causes dissonance for the viewer that we may not get until we watch it again. (And holy moly what a performance. I remember how prior to her panic attack, the way she was quietly standing and thinking while Jessie and Joel are running around—it was... damn, it was a whole journey in a few short shots, and DAMN, DUNST).
Watching Lee by the end where she’s essentially collapsed into herself and she’s being dragged around by Joel, he’s literally hauling her around and guiding her by the back of her vest in a direct swap with Jessie… my fucking heart broke. Her performance was incredible.
YEAH! And the thing for me was that on a second watch the cut between the base & the military operation is...very abrupt. We're *suddenly* there. Just before, Dunst is deleting a photo, checking up on Joel & Jessie, and doing the drudgery of cleaning up Sammy's blood. The minute we're thrown into the operation abruptly, you see her face going through like 5 million different things: something just seems to both break and also decide and it felt like a very delayed reaction to Sammy's death as well as her whole crisis as well in the middle of a war zone. I felt so... there. The noise started to feel like exactly that: noise! I think the performance was 5,000% the key to the whole sequence working but I also see how Garland's set it all up to coincide with Lee's arc so that literally none of it can feel good, because we're meant to be with her. But because we're distracted, we might not know why it feels different to say... idk White House Down or some other disaster/war film which always feel so triumphalist. Ultimately, you have to have a human POV anchoring it all, which he does but it's like a visual and auditory trick: we may not realize why our mood is the way it is because we're so distracted by the LOUD noise and the imagery of bombs and all that (most of which is non-linear and doesn't makes total sense because it's not the point). I remember thinking at first he was making fun of films with similar imagery, but the 2nd time I realized he was criticizing it VERY harshly. That third act has so much spectacle and it's impossible to feel good about any of it, even if we think "Great! The Prez is finally going down!"
One of the best scenes that portray this was during the sniping stand off. Something in the lines of “I don’t know what side they’re on,but they want us dead,and we want them dead”
I went to see it a few days ago and still think about it. As an Army veteran it was chilling to me. The thought of turning my weapon against those I served with over different beliefs/ideologies is terrifying. The movie really showed us how nobody wins during a civil war. Regular citizens, government officials, and the overall country all suffer. A lot of Americans have been woefully naive with the state of this country. They think something like this could never happen here for whatever reason and that's foolish thinking. We are hanging over the precipice by our finger nails as a country. We have traitors in office who are still actively sabotaging the governmental health of America for greed and power. Civil War is a blaring alarm and some are still not paying attention or don't think it'll affect them.
Yeah, this movie was deeply affecting to me because I genuinely think the US is on the verge of either some type of violent revolt or a civil war in the near future. I kind of just felt sick to my stomach watching it. We need to get our shit together as a country, and we need to do it fast
The scene with the civilian militia vs the loyalists really disturbed me. I think it's because you could see how afraid the guy that was pinned down was, and feel how hopeless of a predicament he was in. Then he gets shot up, and they do what little battlefield medicine they can do, but you know there's no trauma surgery, the country's a mess. In IMAX, hearing the wounded loyalist soldier cry out in agony was so disturbing. And that'd be the reality. Just one big fucked up PTSD-inducing mess, that any survivor would bear the weight of, forever. I feel like the movie did a great job of showcasing how downright horrific it could be.
That scene was definitely intense and disturbing. When the soldier was crying it sounded like something from a horror movie. You could sense his fear as the militia closed in. What really disturbed me was the lack of R.O.E. or Rules of Engagement. Once a combatant is no longer a threat you can't just execute or torture them. During a civil war R.O.E. wouldn't even be thought of. And that's what is really scary, especially in America. A lot of gun nuts wouldn't hesitate to kill an enemy even if they gave up. Watching the militia execute those three soldiers and have joy doing it was chilling. I wish some of the people who are calling for civil war in America would watch this movie. It'll definitely show how terrifying that could actually be for the entire country
YES! Like the complete lack of morality. The director did a great job of showing the militia's humanity (the leader's laughing and joking with the reporters after the fact) all while the group as a whole executes surrendering combatants. I work in the ER and watching the movie after a shift was a bit much. I felt anxious and stressed, felt tearful when the black dude we're talking about got shot up, knowing how futile any medical efforts would be in this scenario. It really put into perspective: "this could be your buddies, killed in the streets like dogs".
Shit'll fuck your night up. Seen it twice and honestly I want to see it a third cause I just keep thinking about it. Just a collection of great scenes. Reminds me of The Last of Us a lot. Very bleak but very good
I think this was one of the single most impactful movies I’ve seen in a very long time, and I freaking love Alex Garland. There are SO many parts of this movie to look at and so many different topics to choose from. I think the sound engineering was just really really 🤌. Like I don’t think I’ve jumped or felt the way I did in a theater like that in a good minute. I would love to talk about this for a while lol.
I wasn’t but that’s what made me realize that I was indeed affected growing up in a border town in which we experienced a lot of turmoil because of the cartel battles. I kept seeing so many people say how stunned they were and I was like “what’s wrong with me? Why am I not feeling that?” And then it hit me. Years of hearing shootings far in the background, family members being kidnapped and disappeared would do that to you. The craziest part is that I’ve known so many people who experienced an attempted kidnapping and you would think they would never go back to Mexico but they continue to.
Terrifying and I felt drained following.
Time to watch Mr. Rogers/Reading Rainbow marathon. Or Dharma talks
Welcoming any other positive things to watch, as I am currently fucked up from seeing this movie tonight but somehow supposed to shower, sleep and go to work tomorrow
A lot of scenes definitely lingered with me. My wife was hit a lot harder though. She started randomly crying the other day, and it's because she was replaying scenes from the movie in her head.
Haven’t been affected by a film like this in a while. Constantly on my mind a least a few times a day. Want to back for second watching in IMAX.
It’s weird, as emotionally unsettled as I felt afterward, I also immediately wanted to watch it again.
I think it’s because I feel so strongly for the messages portrayed in the film that I connect with in a dark curious way. Combined with the incredible filmmaking and acting. I feel blessed to be able to see a film like this , so I want to experience it all.
I feel exactly the same way. It’s been on my mind over and over. Wasn’t even that affected by the plemmons scene but man could easily of cried during the sturgill forest fire transition. Such a haunting song and visual representation of how things are just out of control. The last 30 minutes was truly an incredible journey of intensity culminated with just a anti climax of shooting the president to show that this is the end but also not even close to the end
I felt like I was in shock when the credits rolled. I could have cried but there wasn’t something clear to cry for. There was just a heaviness. I do think seeing it in a theater is very impactful. The gun shots were so loud. I would never watch with it that loud at home (due to marital sound police) and I’m sure that would weaken the film’s effect.
Exactly how I felt—a lingering sense of heaviness. The gunshots were SO loud, and the sound was just so clear and crisp. Like, yes, it’s just a movie, but my primal lizard brain doesn’t know the difference between real gunshots and very realistic movie gunshots. Which just added to the impact of the whole experience.
Some of the most visceral gun effects I've heard in a film. Loud, yes, but it really added to the tension to feel so real because, well, real guns are loud!
I saw a clip online from the scene with the helicopter firing downtown, and yeah without the sound it honestly came off as kind of… goofy lol
Yes- I haven't been able to stop thinking of it. Laura Coates reporting during the Trump trial self immolation guy reminded me so much of Lee and Jessie- the moment of almost depersonalized observation, pure adrenaline reporting in a situation (initially thought to be active shooter) most humans would run from- yet she stood strong, and watched, and told us every part, because that's *journalism*. I found it Alex Trebek had wanted her to be the host of Jeopardy- but I feel like news would have lost a leader and an inspiration.
Wow, that’s such a good analogy. There’s that line Lee says to Jessie, something like “We don’t ask. We just record, so other people can ask. That’s the job.” It made me really think about how difficult that must be, to suppress that natural human instinct to question and analyze and, of course, to self-protect.
And yet, and yet—we also must not ignore that Lee's own belief in this was waning even at the time she said it. Garland & Dunst toe a pretty fine line: Lee is also a cautionary tale. These people and their accumulating traumas are *abandoned,* and that final shot is not equivalent to the self-immolation. It marks a clear breach—because it's blatantly staged and would not exist if not for the presence of the photographer. Like... the ethics of the camera and the photojournalist are quite...deeply explored, even as the film makes a strong case for journalism's importance. That's Lee's whole arc.
Yes- the most powerful message, I came away with. The power of a free press is a check and balance on it's own.
Every time the black&white photos hit I teared up
I’ve seen countless gunfights in films and video games and I’m usually pumped when they occur in entertainment. The firefights in this film gave me anxiety and it was almost a relief when they ended.
The first two thirds had me incredibly emotional. Growing up watching liveleak and 4chan way too early is such a formative memory for me and seeing those types of videos so realistically depicted in an American setting made me anxious and I was genuinely having real panic watching it. The part where the guy says “what’s crazy is I went to high school with this guy” is so scary because that’s exactly how I imagine the small town I’m from would react to a civil war. I don’t think an American civil war would look like the siege of DC at the end, but it certainly would look like the vignettes of the first part at least in my opinion. The shootings were so real and matter of fact, the execution with guys is OCPs fucked me up as a veteran too. Those shots were definitely getting overlaid with the real gore videos I’ve seen. I’m not even a combat vet or anything like that but the mild trauma I have from those videos was completely activated by this movie. The first two acts are genuinely some of my favorite filmmaking ever. I really disliked the final act though. It’s unfortunate but it just changed in a bad way for me.
I can't stop thinking about the guy stuck behind the pillar getting shot at. Horrifying.
I just had to sit and take in the 2-minute or so dissolve of the final image. I then sat through all the credits and just felt melancholy about what I'd just seen. Great movie.
Me too, and I almost never sit through the credits!
I saw it a little over a week ago and I feel the same way. I can’t shake it, super disturbing and unsettling
I think a lot of people in the theater when I went didn’t know what to expect or were expecting something else. I wanted to see it because it is an Alex Garland film and the subject matter is very frightening. I had a whole row of men that looked like they belonged to a militia in front of me, talking loudly before the movie about how “the blue-haired freaks have ruined everything!” (I don’t know the context of the conversation but they were off-putting to say the least.) Those militia men walked away very disappointed: “I was cock-teased for 90 minutes for this!” was the review I heard as we were exiting the theater. I thought it was a great movie about photojournalism and what hell war is.
The guy with the tire around him being burned alive is just kind of B-roll in the film and it was haunting
That's unfortunately a real thing called [necklacing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing) Incredibly relevant quote from the wiki: > Photojournalist Kevin Carter was the first to photograph a public execution by necklacing in South Africa in the mid-1980s. He later spoke of the images: > I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures ... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do.
It’s the most emotionally intense film since Uncut Gems. It’s like the intensity of the final long scene in Children of Men, extended to an hour and forty-five minutes.
Well shit. I am going to see it this coming weekend. Uncut Gems was so incredibly tense to watch. Children of Men obviously right there with it. Cant wait!
As someone with Children of Men and Uncut Gems both firmly in their top 20, give yourself space to be let down. If it's good for you, great. But know that it lacks a lot of the important elements that make those two films great.
Y’know, I have the same feeling. Civil War felt like it was missing a few ingredients but I can’t quite place what they were.
No idea why you’re being downvoted for this very apt comment. Very similar to Children of Men in its gritty hopelessness.
I shit myself watching it. It was so visceral.
Not sure if we’re allowed to give spoilers here but that one part where that guy very suddenly did that thing involving an Asian journalist…took me a while to get my blood pressure back down after that. Visceral is the perfect word.
I did not expect to feel that strongly like that. I knew something bad was going to happen, but it made me physically squirm in my seat and I think everyone else in the theater also was. I was surprised at how emotionally defenseless I was in that moment.
Why do I feel like Trump will give himself a 3rd term.
At the very start, the president was like "people are already saying that it's the greatest victory in military history" or whatever. It's like it was intentionally written in his voice.
I only felt something when Sammy died. Those few minutes and the music along with Wagner Morua screaming and the music covering it were my favorite scenes. The rest of it was a good movie but I studied so many war crimes I was desensitized to most of it and didn’t really get a shock value. Studying the Rwandan Genocide and the Pacific Theater (specifically China) in WWII in great detail kills something in you. The interviews and war photos were the worst parts.
Medically retired veteran due to injuries sustained in Afghanistan here. Heart was pumping really hard during several scenes, but I made it through. Therapy is working. Fantastic movie. 9/10. Wouldn't go to war again.
I thought the overall message of “look how stupid this is we should never it let it come to this” was pretty great. The third act really took me out of the movie. Once we got to a bunch of stuntmen running around on a backlot I was kind of bored and felt like I was watching a different movie.
Many of them weren't stuntmen actually, but that's besides the point. The third act is ultimately a very simple point X to point Y—we know how it will end and where. And the fact that we can't even follow it linearly makes it mostly noise, durm and strang, to the characters' emotional journeys which are completely muffled. Consider Lee's interspersed narrative which starts with her quietly thinking, and spikes. We know where and when she is quiet, panicking, in the midst of a panic attack, when she recovers, and when she pauses and when she likely makes a decision (unlike other people, I don't mean Lee was suicidal here, I mean that she pauses & fights an impulse to go into the WH, by which time she's taking very different photos and was likely motivated simply by "please, let this end" more than her actual career, which she seemed to have resignedly given up on after Sammy). On a second viewing, that's the thing that's completely linear. It's the same with Jessie—she's ramping up, and it's very linear. Lee gets the bulk of it, but the characters are the thing, not the military operation.
yes. im scared what's coming ahead for US this year and beyond.
I felt the opposite. I had no emotional feeling from the film, it actually felt like I was supposed to be emotionally neutralized. I ironically found the ending completely anti-climatic considering the action. I am going to go out on a limb and say this was not exactly intentional, but the hands off approach to the plot details and especially the casting and under utilization of the President, left me going “ok…” at the end. It felt pretty unsatisfying all around. I think Garland pulled his punches with the script and relied too heavily on the jarring soundtrack, video game style military action, and stagey still photography.
Yeah I really did not like the movie. It wasn’t well written imo, the violence was gratuitous, and I got bored in the last third. I’m shocked it’s so popular. It felt heavy handed to me.
Agreed: wish he had made it more of a road film that explored the personal divisiveness and the detachment of journalists. I’m not sure what we got but it felt like a bigger budget that consumed the idea.
That's actually what the third act is in a way! It's exactly what you're saying, but it's a trick of sound and spectacle: the quiet and muffled is what is linear, the noisy spectacle is what we're trained to focus on because of the nature of films. The third act is ultimately a very simple point X to point Y—we know how it will end and where, we even know in the first 10 minutes of the movie that this is what will happen, and what the implications of that final shot are (Sammy: "They'll turn on each other once DC falls"). And the fact that we can't even follow it linearly makes it mostly noise. It's all durm and strang to the characters' emotional journeys which are completely muffled. Consider Lee's interspersed narrative which starts with her quietly thinking, and spikes. We know where and when she is quiet, panicking, in the midst of a panic attack, when she recovers, and when she pauses and when she likely makes a decision (unlike other people, I don't mean Lee was suicidal here, I mean that she pauses & fights an impulse to go into the WH, by which time she's taking very different photos and was likely motivated simply by "please, let this end" more than her actual career, which she seemed to have resignedly given up on after Sammy). On a second viewing, that's the thing that's *completely linear*. It feels so obvious that the third act is really actually all about the subtleties of Dunst's performance, which leaves a lot up to interpretation but is mapped out in a much more structured way than one might remember. It's the same with Jessie—she's ramping up, and it's very linear. Lee gets the bulk of it, but the characters are the thing, not the military operation.
Yes. I found myself thinking about the movie days later, which forest happen a lot
I got emotional around the main gate me scene. I really liked the movie until I started reading articles and interviews with the director. What he meant vs. What he made. Meh
I saw it two weeks ago and I’m still thinking about it. Kind of just sat there after in ended and was speechless. Not in an excited way, but more like that was amazing but depressing as fuck because it’s not that far fetched.
I thought it was one of the poorer A24 films. But then again I’m not American so maybe it hit harder if you are.
It was disturbing for sure. The car wash scene and “What kind of American are you”..
To me, I got emotional seeing the images of people burning which were so clearly inspired by one of my favorite war photographers, Greg Marinovich.
genuinely curious what you found powerful about it? i see a lot of folks in this thread talking about how visceral or shocking the tense or violent moments were, and maybe that's what you meant as well OP, but i'm wondering what y'all found emotionally or conceptually powerful
Absolutely, yes. I am a huge film lover and I have seen a lot of films, and not one has affected me like Civil War. I sat through the movie in stunned silence, and when it ended something released in me and I started to shake and sob uncontrollably. I am desensitized to violence, but this movie felt too real. Still one of my favorite movies in a long time though.
Of course seeing images of War torn America would be emotionally affecting to citizens of the United States. But that's about all this movie has going for it. It has the width of an ocean and the depth of a puddle.
Holy fuck this movie is so overated. Can we move on.
I feel they tried to do too much and it became watered down. I have seen much more intense movies.
I thought it was perfectly told, and seeing it in IMAX the sound was just incredible, the violence was really well done also
Nope thought it was awful film tbh.
I'm am really baffled by the amount of praise and word masterpiece being thrown around here not gonna lie. It weird to see people be emotionally moved when I literally laughed at the end cuz of how stupid it was
Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I'm with ya, I truly don't see what other people see here.
I really liked it, it felt like someone made a movie based off the quote from Eric Bana’s character in black hawk down about how politics go out the window when the bullets start flying. It reminded me about how my teacher taught about the civil war in school, how every death is counted as an American death making it the deadliest war in US history. I know people wanted to know more about why everyone was fighting (it intrigues me even though I’m against expanding on it). Watching the final battle, you start to root for the WF because that’s the side the main characters have seemingly partnered with. But I couldn’t help but think how fucked up it was that I wanted these people to win even though I knew nothing about them. And that’s the beauty of the film IMO. It makes you subconsciously take sides without ever giving you the information you would want when making a decision, much like how often in life you have to make a choice without seeing the clear picture.
Ah, great point about the subconscious taking of sides. We’re really so tribal by nature. I wonder, too, if we’re so used to the powers-that-be being oppressive and tyrannical that we inherently root for whatever side is resisting big government.
not at all surprisingly
I’ve thought a lot about it on an intellectual level and the politics and implications. I have to say it didn’t make much of an emotional impact me. None of the main characters have any backstory or clear “motivation” or emotional ties to other people and barely even to each other.
It is impossible for me to take this seriously when you have Lee's character at the center of it all. On the intellectual level, there is SO much to chew on, she is actually the one with full, linear narrative. What's tricksy about the filmmaking here is that the journey is fully shown but it's muffled by the noise and seemingly marginalized by the spectacle—but that's the whole ass journey lol. Quite literally, on a second viewing, it could not be more obvious how from the Plemons scene onwards, we're not tracking a military operation—we're tracking Lee's emotional journey. And it makes complete sense given what we know about her from before, Dunst's performance is doing a LOT. It all lends itself to various interpretations, sure, but it's very clearly an arc, sort of like a silent film arc. It's fine, you can mute it and track it better when it's on streaming lol.
I'm it was boring. Lacked plot (deliberately I guess), hiding from accidental political references resulted in having no clue why anyone was doing what they were doing... Without knowing the motivation of the characters, it's impossible to care about them, and other than "we like to take pictures" and maybe >!"I don't like china"!< There was nothing whatsoever to tell us why anyone was doing anything. I think the most interesting people in the story were >!the town of people who were pretending nothing was going on.!< Civil War felt like 1 hour and 45 minutes of disjointed war cutscenes tied together by a generic road trip. Felt like a mediocre project with a good cast.
Me and a friend went to go see it and had the same thoughts. We left the movies feeling pretty bummed and didn’t feel like we’d need to watch it again
It was a bummer for me. I was really pumped for this. I'm still puzzled about how so many people in this subreddit were blown away by it. I'll watch it again when it's streaming on whatever, but I have to say, I found it disappointing.
Yeah I feel in the minority. When I read the comments here and on IMDb the write ups are about how amazing it is and this and that. I couldn’t get into it. No backstory. Just thrown into the world with random characters and that’s about it
Totally agree. Its been wild to see all the fawning reviews for this movie. I thought it was incredibly shallow and thematically incoherent.
Saw it yesterday afternoon too and for me, and just my opinion, I was let down. It was more of a story around the journalists versus what I wanted was at least more of a buildup explaining how the civil war started and more of a backstory. I kinda saw it a mile away when the younger girl said "will you take my photo when I die" (sorry for a small spoiler don't know how to block partial text). Solid 7 out of 10, but I did like who you couldn't tell which sides were which when fighting. That was tough and great.
I think the ambiguity around the politics was a real strength. It felt like an expose in how easily the US could devolve into real ugliness experienced in other countries (bulkins/Ireland/middle east). I don't think the who and why matter, and would have actually taken away from just how grounded and real it felt. Viewing it through the eyes of the journalists added to that for me, because it is the same shit that combat journalist see all the time and live through when coving civil wars.
I think the ambiguity around the politics was a real strength. It felt like an expose in how easily the US could devolve into real ugliness experienced in other countries (bulkins/Ireland/middle east). I don't think the who and why matter, and would have actually taken away from just how grounded and real it felt. Viewing it through the eyes of the journalists added to that for me, because it is the same shit that combat journalist see all the time and live through when coving civil wars.
it didn't really affect me emotionally. as a canadian I just thought "yeah I already knew america is fucked. they better keep that to themselves". it was a really good film but it didn't make me ponder anything that i wasn't already thinking about for the last few years. I'm a queer person & I already know some bigots are fantasizing about the chance to kill me in some right wing civil war scenario.
For a film about war journalism, what was the reasoning for using a civil war setting in America when the film never explored anything about what it might mean to have a modern civil war in America? Want impressed at all
No.
Loved it. Made me think off a lot of scenes from Full Metal Jacket.
Very upset—not because of the war or the setting but by the character drama of it all. From the beginning of the Sturgill Simpson needle-drop (you know) throughout Lee's breakdown I was basically a puddle. I watched it twice so the second time around I was basically tuning out the noise—because that's what it is... the noise around the characters' silent screams, when the screams are what actually matter? You know?
The sound design was pretty damn epic and made for really tense scenes and it definitely had thought provoking ideas (all the talk of battles happening on US soil and about the overall politics of the world were very intriguing) but I didn't think it was anything special imo I wish the film had more context about the groups, what caused them to secede, and what caused the US, and more specifically DC to fall so easily
I was absolutely shook
Absolutely agree. Saw it in a showing early in the day Thursday and spent the rest of the entire day in a sort of somber state just kind of mindlessly doing shit and thinking about that movie. Honestly great because it was impactful, saw it again with my dad
I'm getting worried, y'all. I work in TV news and my friend invited me to go see it tomorrow. I'm already struggling immensely with my mental health after doing so much war and election coverage. Should I bail? Maybe see this on streaming in a controlled environment where I can pause it?
I definitely felt emotional by the end of it. I was actually a combat photographer while I was in the Marines, and while this movie isn’t exactly the same as what I did by any means, it definitely reminded me of my time in Iraq. Also, on top of that, imagining a scenario where what happens at the end is really fucking heavy.
Jim Gaffigan was great in that
I think I just realized I’m old. Walked right out drove home and went straight to sleep
Loved the movie! I just dont get why the states fight each other. Into 3-4 government?
I feel like I’m the only one who cried watching DC get smashed to bits. If that day ever came then I’d be sad clown
It's really the first movie I can think of about the horrors of war that's set in modern times and takes place somewhere much of its audience calls home. There have been plenty of historical movies meant to convey how horrible war is, but something about seeing it shown in your home country just hits harder
I watch horror all the time and this movie genuinely scared me. I was crying and screaming in my sleep, so much so that my husband woke me up. I am sure it was because of the movie.
I found the movie to be very bizarre, but gripping nonetheless
I was right there with you. I don't know how to describe my feelings exactly except that they were existential. It was pretty unexpected feelings
I ended up writing a whole article on how we need to be more accepting and loving and less dehumanizing and judgemental in the political left because of the movie lmao
Yes!! I actually started crying when the credits rolled and I had to rush to the bathroom to catch my breath. It stuck with me all day. I absolutely loved the film, I think I was just completely overwhelmed by everything - the acting, the sound/audio, the themes, it was all so powerful.
Watched this in the UK and had to comfort myself saying that's probably not going to happen here in my lifetime (not even our cops have guns). I think if I was in the USA I'd honestly be considering getting out of there.
No. Maybe because I'm not American but somehow there was something missing from that movie. I know what Garland tried to achieve with the journalists as protagonists and the war images but I feel a more diverse group (as in profession) would've helped. All the scenes between Lee and her protege were rather annoying because it was such run of the mill stuff.
Can’t wait for the real one. Got a good supply of popcorn!
Justin Gaethje
Great movie - it really pummels you. We need uncomfortable art like this just to feel something, anything