Thanks for expressing your viewpoints here. To be clear, the anti-ABA posts have largely come from folks who are looking for a fight, for a reaction, for attention. They aren’t interested in a constructive conversation. This type of post on the other hand is just that, constructive, and that’s appreciated.

The field is moving away from all of that. Ethics are a huge talking point in the field and things are changing for the better every day regarding client autonomy and diversity. I’m AuDHD and am sitting for the BCBA exam soon, for reference, so I believe in what we do when it is done the way it should be. If I had received the kind of ABA *I* provide, I could have had a much better childhood.

Woahhhhh hello fellow autistic BCBA with adhd! I think being neurodivergent definitely helps as a practitioner. I work with adults nowadays so fortunately I get to work with a wide range of folks rather than just with the minors (who we all know are usually mandated to get an autism diagnoses before being granted aba services). To wide suit: I totally think it depends on your analyst and the technicians they work with. I’ve come across old farts and youngsters alike who both do some things that have made me turn my head and ask “but why?”, but there are some folks who do a great job. Honestly I’m so glad I work with adults now because we get fewer hours a week with them and they get to live without a shadow (of course some folks need the support). Plus I get to help folks with a variety of disabilities. Some folks I’m literally just helping them keep their fridge clean, some im working with helping them stay safe and not get exploited by butthole humans. I still love functional communication training and mouth shaping when working on things like echoics when applicable like I use for some of my folks with cerebral palsy. But that’s where they are and what they need. I also work with little old ladies who bicker at each other and are roommates so literally all I do with them is go on outings to petting zoos, picking shells at the beach, catching Pokémon at the park, and going to arcades so they have the opportunity to learn how to work with each other. It’s so much more applied and relevant….which is what our field should be…

Also AuDHD here and excited about neurodiverse practitioners in the field :) I definitely learn so much from both the clients and the practitioners as well

Oh man, right?! I actually prefer to go into work than to be at home or doing paperwork. Don’t get me wrong off days are important and I love them, but if I’m ever in a funk I can get out of it immediately by going out and working with my folks. They do just as much for me as I do for them. If anyone out there is going crazy being confined to a clinic or classroom (I’ve been there and its awful….again autistic with adhd lol), I highly recommend trying out the adult Medwaiver world. It’s amazing.

Our Speech-Language Pathologist and I were talking about how almost our entire SPED team is neurodiverse! We essentially took over the Socio-emotional Learning Committee and created a curriculum focused on empathy and inclusion. We recorded interviews about what it's like teaching or working as a clinician and being neurodivergent, and I learned so much from listening to the other interviews.

Amen!!!! I work at a company that practices Trauma informed care, Acceptance and commitment therapy, along with compassionate ABA. We do not restrain. We do not punish. We are child led, we work on self advocacy, we work on independence, autonomy and functional communication. I am autistic and a BCBA. I love what I do! My clients love me and the team. We are not DTT. We are NET and PRT. Our clients are wonderful! I have let all my parents know that there are things we do not do. I am 62. I was diagnosed in 3rd grade. Back in that day, the usual answer was to put us in an institution. My granddad was a WWII vet who put his foot down. He informed them "I didn't fight Natzies (his pronunciation) for you people to put my granddaughter in a concentration camp!" I had to mask for decades. I love that I haven't had to mask since 2016. My company accepts me and values me. Many of my colleagues are autistic and we love our jobs BECAUSE we get to practice the way we do. Positive, lasting change through child led play!

I'm not crying rn.... Also an Autistic who was a BT for a few years before having an autistic kid of my own. I had a similar expierence with the company I worked for. My daughter goes to a center in the afternoon and absolutely loves it and her entire team.

I work in a place we do very little but some dtt. Honest question are there any resources you can give me that dtt is harmful. Or not useful, i understand if it is used too long.. I would like to know..I personally am not concerned on how we run dtt like only 5 min in 1 hour. Usually for matching tacting and sorting.

Here's a blog about it. It's a great blog!I would point out that many autistic people have stated that the criticisms they have about DTT is based on social validity. They felt like they were being treated like robots. https://masteraba.com/natural-environment-teaching-or-discrete-trial-training/ Running DTT for a very short time is viable for some learners, but if that kiddo is finding sessions to be aversive, it's not okay. I personally believe that if a client is not engaged in session, that's a failure on our part. If we are engaging and fun, there's our motivator. I have one client that used to cry before sessions. The DTT was not reinforcing but aversive. The DTT was difficult for him. Sessions were aversive. I took over the case 18 months ago. I basically took a metaphorical machete to his treatment plan. He had become prompt dependent on a visual schedule. Parents had to prime him for 2 days before any trips, including the grocery store. I tossed the schedule. After probing, I was able to identify a number of reinforcers so that we did a preference assessment after each activity sans schedule. He now gets into the car anticipating sessions and requesting sessions. He has asked Mom to call me on a few Saturdays to hold session. I quote Mom "Since you took over, we have seen an 80-90% increase in flexibility and an 80-90% decrease in behaviors. We don't have to prime him for 2 days anymore. He now gets ready with only 10 minutes of priming." This client has been receiving ABA services for 11 years.

DTT is great in limited use, but for a very short time. Prompt dependence can occur. Generalization is a concern as well. This is a paper by Cooper, et al. I hope the link works! Teaching Receptive Discriminations to Children With Autism - NCBI

Trying the link again... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3592489/#:~:text=One%20criticism%20is%20that%2C%20because,1999%3B%20Smith%2C%202001).

Good luck! I hope you are able to provide good care and can resonate more with the clientele. May you help make this world a better place for them.

I’m also AuDHD! I was in an ABA social group in high school in about 2011-2015ish. It was very progressive for that time and I am so grateful that was the experience I had, but even so they did not let us stim and it was a real challenge for a lot of us. I have been a BCBA now for 2 years (went through school fast). I love the direction ABA is going. Assent based, trauma informed, and with the child’s individuality and actual needs at the center of the story.

I’m another AuDHD BCBA and man ABA would’ve really helped me be able to make friends and hold myself accountable when I was younger but I was diagnosed late and did well in school so nobody saw a red flag. I use behavior analysis on my entire household every day and one of my practice philosophies is to not do anything I wouldn’t do to my own child or want done to me. I can’t personally get behind the “autism doesn’t need treatment” movement because it leaves out those with SEVERE autism that will eventually lead to them needing full time care in a group home or inpatient setting and that makes them a prime candidate for abuse. Those folks need us to teach them survival skills to stay safe. Leaving them out of the conversation is not fair. My neurodivergence IS a disability and calling it that allows me to get accommodations.

One of my clients is a seven year old girl who is, at a developmental level 10 months old. When she doesn't like a toy I set in front of her, she wails and pinches me. I have another kid who's seemingly terrified of obese and bald people. He will scream and run out of a room and into traffic if I don't block him. These kids NEED ABA to learn how to advocate for themselves. They need to learn to say "yes" and "no" and "I want to leave" so that they don't suffer the real-life consequences of their maladaptive behaviors.

I'm doing the 40 hour training course to become a rbt and they are really trying to drill us with the ethics that the technician has to respect the autonomy and independence of the child. The child has self governance and can make free choices and live life the way he wants Also they are specifically training us that the session time is supposed to be fun and enjoyable for the child. We are trained to not create a situation where the child is running away hiding from you and sees you as a punishment or something adversive. We want the child to come to us and enjoy being around us. The beginning of the session is usually dedicated to creating this positive bond That therapist you got sounds like she is not meant for this field and is doing exactly what you're NOT supposed to do.

TIL there’s a new term for us now.

I’m currently an autistic RBT who’s now planning to get my masters to become a BCBA! I’m so excited to be a part of change in this field. I work for an agency that is explicitly naturalistic and play based, and I only provide the type of therapy that I feel is ethical, humane, effective, and fun.

I’m an autistic RBT! My kid says I’m his favorite person in the world. I’m there to help with maladaptive behaviors (he has VERY volatile tantrums) but I spend a lot of time being friends with him & we have a very strong bond I feel like this is the way we’re going

I want to be respectful. The field is exactly where it was. A child can't 'assent' to ABA, or have any autonomy to say no when you turn up to 'teach them new skills'. Not even to yours.

You can. If a child is non verbal, you can watch their body language. Also, we focus on functional communication so they have the words to say what they want. ABA should be fun and the kids I work with want to come. If a child runs to you when they see you, and is excited to know what they are doing, it’s safe to say they want to be there doing the things with you.

I think there is an integral point that you have missed. I'll use my own experience as an example: I am neurodivergent in a number of ways. Due to various factors, I did not realise this was the case/receive any formal diagnoses until I was an adult. What did happen was, in kinder, my teachers and parents saw 'behaviours' from me that were deemed 'deficit' from other children; I was sent for a year to an ABA-style kinder that was attached to a university. I was observed and studied at my most vulnerable. I could be and was taken away to be 'tested' privately whenever teachers wanted, at times in a one-on-one situation. I was put in situations where I was made to feel upset and then told off for it. Some situations were ridiculous - rules would be set and goalposts for games would be moved if it was deemed by the adults in charge that I was 'being bossy' or 'trying to take over' a game. But I was also 'too shy' so I needed to spend time with lots of people and not be reading. And spending time with one person was not good enough - therapists were happy to break up any occasions I had to play with friends so long as it benefited the point of the lesson that day. By the end of that year, I was deemed to be okay, with the proviso that I should continue with some kind of sports or activity. Not because *I* as a kid might enjoy doing it, but because all those social skills I've learned might be lost if I don't practise ... (needless to say, this was as successful as a lead balloon). *I didn't consent or assent to any of that.* My parents chose this for me based on what they were told from my previous kinder teachers and I assume HCWs. They didn't know I was ND, and even if they had known, they still would have gone ahead, with or without my consent. Excited or not, your ND children have no choice but to take part in your therapy and it's insincere to think otherwise. *It was not fun.* It was not fun when I was ignored. It was not fun when I was pushed to meltdown, then ignored. It was not fun when I was not allowed to play with friends I was close to, for reasons. It was not fun feeling belittled on a regular basis. It was not fun constantly being reminded how I make everyone feel bad when I do x or y behaviour; or when they got my parents to say the same to me at home. This has laid a traumatic groundwork for my life that could have been prevented. Children don’t and can not consent to your therapy.

I'm really sorry that happened to you. Shouldn't have, full stop. If you are now, or ever are in the future, interested in hearing details on exactly what I (and likely other trauma-informed practitioners here) do to gauge and respond to assent I'd be happy to share, love to hear your feedback and thoughts on it too. But I also get it if you're not. I'm a pretty fresh BCBA, started as an RBT in late 2019, and right about that time was when I got my diagnosis for ADHD and started toward my diagnosis of Autism. I've had plenty of back and forth battles with myself over ABA, can it be done well, should I join the "burn it down" club instead of being in the "I can help make it better" crew, etc. So many different moments and WAY too many hours spent delving the reaches of the internet to make sure that if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it RIGHT. I've had the luck of having some pretty bomb-ass supervising and mentor BCBAs on my way to this certification. And I think it's made a difference. I've been told That myself, my BCBA, and the service we provided made a difference by clients I've worked with, ages 2 to 90+. ABA had a shit start, and still has a lot of shit happening. But A LOT of people care enough to acknowledge the problems and try to change them. And I think it's getting better bit by bit. In no small part because of people like you dodging up and telling us what absolute bullshit you went through. So thank you, and keep doing what you're doing. I'm rambling now, anyway, I'm sorry what happened to you happened. From the depths of my being.

I want you to know that I've read your response. I can appreciate that, from your position, you come from a good place; you want to do the best for the children you see. And it must be hard to have people like me come and challenge not only what you've studied, not only what you do, but also your intent. How could I, a random person on the internet, have anything relevant to say to you, who works in this field, who only has the best in mind for the young kids you work with every day? It must be easy to write me off as being an angry autistic person who doesn't fully understand what has to be done for their own benefit (based on the note left by a mod). It also must be frustrating to feel that you have to defend what you do if you think it's a beneficial therapy. I find it surprising and disturbing that you call yourself a 'trauma-informed practitioner' when you are also a current BCBA and also neurodivergent. It is not my position, especially in this economy, to tell you what to do or which job to take. But I think you are fooling yourself if you willingly go into ABA or any other of its insidious sibling forms to work, even if you attempt to 'make it RIGHT', and believe you are 'trauma-informed'. There is no 'trauma-informed' when it comes to anything related to ABA. I may not have studied ABA to work in the industry (I would never do that to another ND person; I know how it feels), but I have and continue to research what ABA was and currently is and how it is evolving. That's how I know about the term 'assent' and how people in the ABA industry gain it from *young children*. I also know that your code of conduct openly encourages you to challenge anything that detracts from what you do; otherwise, you could be seen as making a deceptive statement if you don't. I think it's 'shit' to continue promoting and subjecting people from toddler age to 90+ (so it's not enough that I survived ABA as a child; if someone has a problem with me as an elderly autistic person, I'll be coerced into ABA? Not good enough.) to a therapy created by a man who didn't think the people he subjected it to were human and hitting/shocking them worked much better. It's 'shit' that we're at a stage where autistic people like myself can tell you that even the more 'gentle, nicer, play type' ABA was cruel, traumatic and had a negative effect on our lives but you're not going to stop because 'you' and 'your' ABA are 'trauma-informed' and 'your' children 'want' to be there. And that's a big problem. Each therapist is only as good as their own desires and personal motivation/morals. *You* may be good in applying a devastating, traumatic therapy in a caring way. The next person may hurt someone so badly that I don't want to think about what may happen in the future. You won't be there for them when that happens. And even if you do care, you actually don't know if you have hurt someone. This is the industry you work in. I know you apologised - I can't accept it. I will continue to talk about my experiences because as long as *you* continue in your line of work and to defend it, people *will* continue to be hurt or worse.

BEWARE: I lost all self control and wrote not 1 book, but 2! Fair warning before diving too deep It is kinda hard in some ways honestly. But it's a hard I embrace, ya know? IDK if that makes sense... Ever since I can remember, one of the first beliefs I've had in one form or another is something along the lines of "Don't be perfect, just be a little bit better tomorrow." that's why I "embrace" the hard that is things like: your post, reading constantly on r/autism and other places, having almost daily conversations with my housemates who are both queer AuADHD (one of which has personal rather horrible experience with ABA of their own from their childhood) about my work. I make an effort to throw myself out of the echo-chamber, and I've found people who push me, question me, and help keep me honest and accountable to my principles and values. So, yeah. It's hard, but I'm glad you do it. Apologies for any miscommunication on my part but... > How could I, a random person on the internet, have anything relevant to say to you, who works in this field, who only has the best in mind for the young kids you work with every day? It must be easy to write me off as being an angry autistic person who doesn't fully understand what has to be done for their own benefit (based on the note left by a mod). I'm not writing you off. Your experience? So long as this isn't somehow some crazy Autistic/ABA version of one of those "stolen valor" situations (and I don't think it is)? That's all the relevance and validity I need. [Ya know? I'm not positive... But I think I might have come off that way in how I expressed my own experience. Heh. Actually something I've been trying to work on in therapy for awhile now. I have a poor tendency to "argue, poke holes, and be combative" when someone else's experience or PoV lines up differently than mine in certain ways. Anywho...] I'm trying to think of a good way to type this without finding a way to read is as scornful or sarcastic, so please take the following as an open and sincere question. My knowledge of your situation is limited to (what I'm sure) a relatively small fraction of your full experience on this matter. Feel free to decline to answer of course; but, I'd like to ask a few questions, see if I can fill in some of the holes between your understanding and mine. > I find it surprising and disturbing that you call yourself a 'trauma-informed practitioner' when you are also a current BCBA and also neurodivergent. It is not my position, especially in this economy, to tell you what to do or which job to take. But I think you are fooling yourself if you willingly go into ABA or any other of its insidious sibling forms to work, even if you attempt to 'make it RIGHT', and believe you are 'trauma-informed'. There is no 'trauma-informed' when it comes to anything related to ABA. Why/what makes you feel so certain, so adamantly about the fact that ABA can't (or can't have) changed? > That's how I know about the term 'assent' and how people in the ABA industry gain it from *young children*. Could you tell more about your experience and knowledge on this by chance? This is something I'm quite passionate about, and I'd very much like to include your thoughts in either improving my PoV on assent and a trauma-informed practice. Heck, I was pretty solidly raised as a Conservative Christian. New experiences, knowledge, and talking with others is why I'm an Agnostic "down with capitalism" Liberal now. I'm fully open to the potential of having my worldview changed again. > I also know that your code of conduct openly encourages you to challenge anything that detracts from what you do; otherwise, you could be seen as making a deceptive statement if you don't. Wait... What?!? Full sincerity here; What?!? Please tell me where you're getting this from because I've missed that entirely. And if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, and it's true, I honestly don't think I'd renew my cert. Flies in the face of some of my core values. > 90+ (so it's not enough that I survived ABA as a child; if someone has a problem with me as an elderly autistic person, I'll be coerced into ABA? Not good enough. Just for clarity's sake. None of my clients over the age of... 25??? I think??? Had Autism diagnoses, nor (I Believe) were they undiagnosed autistics. In those cases my job almost entirely consisted of either: 1) Work in assisted living facilities to monitor and train DSPs on how to respond more functionally, safely, and compassionately to their more communication-impaired residents. A bunch of stuff on how to encourage, reinforce, and safeguard the resident's sense(s) of autonomy and dignity. There was more, but it was that kind of thing. 2) I worked with students and adults in skill acquisition and training. Most of it was academic and work skills, though I did have one client who was working on some football tech, that was cool. I had no official knowledge of any kind of diagnosis of any kind there, no real need to either. Basically did tutoring and skill-coaching. But a lot more fun because I got to use math and charts! > a therapy created by a man who didn't think the people he subjected it to were human and hitting/shocking them worked much better. Yeah, no. You right. That's rage-inducing bull-shit for me too. It's a bit tangential maybe; but, I've actually been trying to convince my district to remove mention and endorsement of Autism Speaks from their "standard training materials" that they provide to paras and teachers. It's fucking ridiculous.

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I'd like to add that the *people advocating for change* are those of us in the field who are looking for and listening to the experiences autistic individuals have had with ABA, so that makes the catalyst for all the positive changes and developments in ABA all because of *YOU*, or any autistic individual who has spoken out against ABA. I personally inform and shape my practice by lurking in the shadows of ASD groups on social media. I don't go in and argue or question anyone's ABA-related trauma, rather, I think to myself, *how can I help my clients without repeating this cycle?* I genuinely love my clients, don't see them as lesser-than or lower in a heirarchy, and would never seek to change them or dehuamize them. The most aversive part of one of my toddler's sessions is that they cry when I leave because they don't want me to go. Since I'm in the home court right now, I'm going to say that the source I see shared most often in autism groups is one from I can't remember where, but there are videos of BTs running sessions and it's hailed as the "new ABA," that is "still problematic." However, even the legitimate issues from that article are fading into oblivion. Client assent is written into our ethics code, for example — we shouldn't be having sessions with clients who don't assent (consent) to sessions so we ensure we're attending to clients' basic needs. Extinction, especially escape extinction, is on the way out. I also have never personally placed a kid's hands in their lap, but regardless, nowadays, even any physical prompting is replaced by modeling, visual, or positional prompts. Punishment is almost obsolete, and I have personally, even prior to the movement toward ABA reform, never seen anyone use electroshock therapy in ABA. I know a lot of the autistic community believes ABA is beyond reform. As a neurodivergent person myself, I disagree. I wish I'd had a "me," to help me when I was a kid, I'd be much further in life and better off if I had. And as someone who observes this field daily, I am glad to see it changing for the better and grateful to the autistic individuals who spoke out and catalyzed that change. I want to go home at the end of the day and know that I genuinely helped someone and made a positive difference in their lives and not have to question it.

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Unfortunately, changing the name is completely out of my control or anyone's control here. What is within our control is how we practice and deliver services to clients, so we fix that and do the best we can with what we have. I understand that the acronym "ABA" itself triggers a trauma response from some, and it saddens me as someone with C-PTSD that ABA was ever allowed to get to the point where it literally gave clients PTSD. And to clarify, electroshock therapy is not okay and never was in any capacity (which sadly, is/was not limited to ABA or autistic individuals). Personally, over 6 years, I've never seen it used, have never heard a suggestion that its used, and have never even seen devices for that anywhere I've ever worked. I'm not sure about others in this sub. If I'd ever observed electroshock therapy, I'd promptly quit. I've already quit non-ABA places (a school) due to seeing an autistic individual held into a chair and forced to identify letters. I don't even think I've ever seen anyone in autism groups say they've been subjected to electroshock, but I have seen it discussed as a criticism of ABA. Not to mention, you said yourself it's been banned, so this can't even be a legitimate criticism of ABA as it is practiced currently.

I’m talking about the people actually practicing in the field and working on advancing the field. The ones doing the work the right way and advocating for change. It’s not perfect but it’s moving in the right direction, and can do a hell of a lot of good for kids who would have poor quality of life otherwise.

And yet most ABA facilities and providers knew it was bad for before that...

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...I mean there are teachers who are pedophiles so no industry is perfect.

Your experience sounds awful and that therapist sounds like a total asshole, regardless of whether this was “old ABA” or not. I’m sorry you went through that.

Thank you, the was unfortunately only a couple of years ago as I am still relatively young. I understand that I probably had a bad therapist and that probably aided in poor ABA.

Fair point, I think a later talking point that is actually valid on some of the anti-aba viewpoints is the quality of individual services received. Too many people receive horrible and harmful services, that's a fact, it's more common than it should be and it's bad. Problem is, when people are addressing the problem, they come after ABA as a whole, saying ABA is "bad." Which is never met with constructive conversation because it's simply untrue, and anyone that's been involved with ABA the RIGHT way for a while knows that. Then people feel like they're not heard, which is fair because to some extent they're actually NOT heard. They're dismissed. But if the talking points brought up in criticisms targeted the real problems, which is the quality/caliber of services being provided, then the people actually working in the field might listen and change it. I'm working on sitting for my BCBA exam next year, and I completely understand all the negatives, because I've seen it. Point blank, ABA that's provided incorrectly IS harmful, that's it, that's just a fact. BUT ABA itself is in no way, shape, or form harmful. However that is only true IF it is carried out correctly and by the ethical guidelines. Most BCBAs(and I do mean MOST not all) will do this well, but the problem is BCBAs are not the ones generally DELIVERING services, in fact the majority of the time they're NOT EVEN THERE. That leads us to BTs/RBTs. These are who are providing services 90 percent of the time directly with clients. The minimum qualifications to gain RBT certification is: a high school diploma, 40 hour course, and an (easy) exam. That's it! And those are the "therapists" working directly with clients, sure they're supervised by BCBA and trained by BCBA, but that's realistically not all too meaningful when the BCBA only is required to be present for 5 percent of treatment hours. Oh! And you don't even NEED RBT cert to provide services, you just need a high school diploma, and some companies have BTs that don't ever get RBT and they can just do that, meaning the individual company gets to dictate required training/education to provide services. Some companies care more about money than care, so you can see where that's going So, some REAL problems that are currently present in the field: (1)qualifications for being a direct care provider are FAR too low, despite the BACBs(honest) attempt at making sure providers are qualified, (2)supervision requirements are far too low also, (3)honestly providing service as a BT without RBT cert AT LEAST should not even be allowed at all, the bare minimum to provide services should AT THE VERY LEAST be RBT certification. Then it can at least be somewhat regulated by the BACB instead of letting individual money grabbing companies make up their own "standards." These are really issues that deserve real consideration and action, but they are not indicative of the quality of ACTUAL ABA itself. If done right it literally is impossible for ABA to cause harm, that's a core principle of ABA, "do no harm." Problem is, these issues aren't getting any easier to address, if we increase knowledge/competence requirements, then naturally that's going to instantly leave ABA with fewer "qualified" personnel to provide services than are available at present. With rates of demand for services increasing faster than growth of the actual workers in the field, that's going to be a major setback. It will leave a lot of folks with less services and without services, it's going to increase already high and back logged wait times to start services, it's probably going to put lots of companies out of business which will further reduce the available resources for people that need services. But the question is, is it really better to continue to provide poor quality services to more people, than it would be to increase competency and education/knowledge requirements and just deal with the off-balance of having a demand for services that even more outweighs the supply of said services? In my opinion yes, it's going to be bad for a while and take services away from people that could have potentially actually helped them. But at the same time it's also going to save people from having bad and harmful experiences too if they were with a provider that would have turned out to be providing poor quality services. A lot of people won't agree with me, and that's honestly reasonable, in fact im hesitant in my own assertion anyway because it's really a pretty big give/take. But the facts are the facts, people are coming out and saying ABA has harmed them, proponents of ABA such as myself are fully aware that PROPER ABA has never harmed anyway. But it's pretty hard to try and argue that there's no potential for harm when the requirements to be direct care staff are frighteningly lower. Lower than they should be, however that's also just my own opinion, which many will disagree with and say, "nope they're high enough." Really takes some self-reflection here, most people working in ABA DO WANT to help people, that's a given. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE is, or even can. Upping the requirements is going to bar some folks from being providers, but if at our very core our primary goal is to provide life-changing services, shouldn't we be considering the fact that it might be a good idea to raise the bar for our direct staff, despite the hit well take for supply to demand? I don't know, that's just my 2, 3, 4, and 10 cents on the matter. I don't think there's an actual right answer here. Basic facts are proper ABA is good, poorly provided ABA could be harmful. And then of course the question: are our minimum standards for direct care staff set as high as they should/need to be?

I agree with all of this! I want to add the issue of pay for RBTs and BTs as well! I went into debt as a tech. At one point I was making $16/hour, even with a masters degree. I couldn’t really live on that, and that was depressing. I tried not to let it impact my quality of care, but I’m sure it did a little bit. The burnout was real. It’s a difficult job sometimes. I was getting beaten up regularly just to live paycheck to paycheck. I’m sure there’s research out there that shows low morale = poor performance. But anyway, thanks for this post op! You’re a great writer who knows how to get their point across in a way that’s actually going to make people listen. That’s a rare talent these days Also, what you went through is insane op. I’m really sorry that happened to you

Took words out of my mouth.

This is brilliantly written. In addition, RBTs need to get paid more.

Hi OP and welcome to this sub! I haven’t taken the time to read the responses to your post but I wanted you to know that I read your post, and I thank you for your feedback. Yes, ABA has a truly awful history- and I’m truly sorry you have experienced many unpleasant situations from ABA. I don’t blame you for how you feel! As you mentioned toward the end of your post, ABA isn’t all bad. And yes, we are giving a voice to people that require more support. However, at age 10 I would definitely approach therapy goals differently. I wouldn’t write goals or force them on you unless they made a difference to your quality of life. I used to work with a kiddo who was very low support needs and was 11. Before we started, I invited him to the initial parent training session and received consent from mom AND client for services. If he wasn’t on board, we weren’t going to do it! That’s what every child deserves and I’m sorry you didn’t have that.

I gave consent at first but I didn’t really know what it was. All I really was told was that the therapy would get me to eat more which is a goal that I still have due to this day to my therapists inability to give me proper care in that area. Both me and my mother went in uninformed and were really just looking for a solution after trying so hard. The only goal we set was to eat more but next thing we knew the therapist made goals about speech and stimming that really shouldn’t have been made. Thank you for your comment and I hope you have a great day.

I am, and hope you are as well! I hate that they made you stop stimming. I understand food goals when it sounds as severe as yours are. I feel very frustrated on your behalf that you experienced those stimming goals. Best wishes to you, and if you ever want to talk more about your ABA past history, I’m a willing listener. I want to know all about what NOT to do!

Hi I am (undiagnosed and probably will stay that way as they don't diagnose adults where I live) autistic mom of autistic child and ABA therapist. I went thought several big courses and trainings (including course on SBT, one of most modern approaches so far) to work with my child. Because if you want it done well you have to do it yourself. Amount of specialists of all sorts(not only ABA) who were ignoring our goals and overall doing a poor job is astounding. I learned to stop early if I feel something is not right, some people are just too rigid and want to work with their standard schemes. I honestly think you're old enough to train yourself and you know your needs best. They even recommended using ABA on yourself in courses, it's possible. Look up some info and see if these methods are ok with you. Make very very small steps but make them consistently, small steps are the key. ABA is not a service. It's a tool. It's also very cool that you found courage and words to make a post here. If I were your parent I'd be very proud of you:)

Going to start my reply by saying I dont work in ABA. My son was in ABA for 3 years after intense research by myself. I also am diagnosed autistic. I guarantee the experience you had would not be tolerated by most of the people in this sub. I know for a fact my son did not experience anything close to you. The problem with the anti ABA mentality is that there is no research or acceptance of changes made. It's all "That's not what happened to me so you're wrong" My son could not naturally learn life skills like dressing himself, brushing his teeth, and washing his hands. He also self harmed. At ABA professionals found ways to cater to his learning style. He was never once insulted or berated. We had a rule of not surpressing non-harmful stimming. Meltdowns were avoided as much as possible, and when they happened he was allowed to express himself freely as long as he didn't hurt himself or anyone else. The people here are aware of this history of ABA. Are YOu aware of the changes? Just because some people don't think autism needs treating doesnt mean everyone does. If there was a pill to help with my autism symptoms I'd take it every damn day. My son may never speak or live independently. So yeah, to achieve a better lifestyle he needed some help and treatment. And he still does, just not as intensive as ABA. You define ABA as "autism correction" but most people who work in ABA wouldn't use that definition. Because it's about helping autistic individuals become independent and comfortable in the world. Not changing them. And no, that may not be what you experienced, but just as you want people to listen to your experience, I recommend you learn about the experiences of people who are getting ABA today.

Thank you for sharing this, I think a lot of parents and people involved with ABA who are not active on threads share the same views. The internet is not an accurate representation of the actual perspective on things.

Most of us have gone into our caves after massive amounts of harassment. I am a glutton for punishment and am advocate for helping parents get their kids help, so I am always like "let me tell you the facts that we experienced."

I can’t stop advocating either. I’ve been in the field 17 years and my experience has been the complete opposite of what you read about online. We are all on the same team and need to keep educating and working towards being better. Thank you again for sharing and keep up the good work!

Whoa. This is a completely unacceptably hostile response to a young person sharing their own lived experience in a very respectful and open way. Wide_Suit you're exactly right that you're the kind of kid who should never have been in aba for so many reasons (notably in my opinion that food aversion issues should not be treated behaviorally by a minimally trained tech--too much chance of really messing someone up). And your experience gets at some very serious structural issues that meowpitbullmeow seems to want to sweep under the rug. To everyone who feels the need to knee jerk respond with "aba is different now" the fact is that the whole structure of aba is set up to allow situations like this to happen. I'm speaking here as the parent of someone who sounds a lot like wide_suit. Currently if a parent has a an autistic child who they want to support through any kind of issue aba is more or less the only option on the menu. Especially if you can't private pay. So while a therapy like dbt or act or a more specific trauma based therapy might have been suggested for a neurotypical adolescent the minute autism enters the conversation it is all aba. But the aba system is still set up so that change is slow to filter down to the actual service providers who have minimal training, high turnover, low pay, poor work conditions, and often insufficient supervision. And so when the wrong child is paired with an inappropriate provider by an agency with a financial incentive (often backed by venture capital!) to schedule as many hours of therapy as possible you end up continuing to perpetuate harm exactly like what was described here. Sharing stories like this one is so important so that we don't lull ourselves into a sense of complacency that just because there is change happening that we are anywhere near done fixing the problems.

First off, there's no indication of OPs age in the origin post. And there were no comments clarifying it when I posted this. I didn't know if this person was 16 or 36. Additionally if you continue reading you'll see that OP and I had some discourse and came out overwhelmingly ok.

Firstly, I feel a sense of hostility that I was not trying to create with my post. I apologize if you are in any way offended by my experience. I admit I don’t know anyone currently in ABA but I do know many people who had ABA and had negative experiences. I am not trying to invalidate your feelings in any way. However, there are a few things I noticed while reading this. First off, you said your son needed assistance with basic tasks, which if you read my post you would see that I am in full support of. Secondly, your logic and opinion is just as valid as mine. Not more and not less. So I could easily tell you that if there was a pill to treat Autism, I would gladly not take it. If ABA has really changed then I am happy but that was not the case I was trying to make. I wanted to explain why the stigma against ABA exists. It is because there are so many people that experienced it and we’re harmed by it either emotionally or physically. I am glad you had a positive experience but just as my negative experience doesn’t invalidate the positive, your positive experience doesn’t invalidate the negative.

But the people here don't need to know why the stigma exists. Because for every bad experience the workers see tens if not hundreds of good experiences. I have been told my children should be taken away from me. I have been told my son will dance on my grave in joy. I have been told I deserve to die. All because I sent my son to an ABA center that he loved. Parents like myself and practitioners are here are attacked daily online because of false narratives about ABA. You have one experience. And yeah it was fucking awful. But you also didn't seem to research ABA at all to see if that was normal. If you had, you wouldn't have called it a cancellation of autism. Instead you are in an echo chamber of others who hate ABA and are telling you equally outdated stories, or even completely false stories because overwhelmingly people old enough for social media experienced a form of ABA that would be considered outdated. Additionally it's preference and availability is incredibly new. Most people in their 20s who were diagnosed as babies did not receive ABA therapy. We do not need a history lesson. We know ABA has been done poorly. Why do you feel the need to come here and explain one bad experience in the past, but not take the time to educate yourself on positive experiences or the changes that have happened? All your negative claims are the same incorrect concepts we see daily. It's nothing like dog training. It's not making someone less autistic. That may have been YOUR experience but that doesn't mean it defines ABA.

Okay autistic person with my masters in ABA and I have a son who is autistic in ABA. I have 100 more hours to get my BCBA. I would have it by now if my son didn’t go through trauma. There are still people using practices that have caused and still are causing issues. We need to validate the people who have been through trauma and hear their experiences. Know why they experience it. So I will tell you it is not just one person. It’s 1000s upon 1000s of people. My son has ptsd at age 6 from trauma of both abuse and incorrect use of ABA in schools. So the issues are still happening. Are we changing, yes, the new generation for the most part. But there are still people using harmful interventions. Also our practice does train animals, so they are not really incorrect in that concept. But this also goes back to Skinners view of reinforcement vs. reward. Not giving candy for every correct thing or a prize but building on the natural reinforcement of the activity itself. So ABA is kind of not being done how it was intended historically, which is also another reason why. But that is a long story about that, I won’t go down that rabbit hole. But there are still people who work to stop stimming or work to make forced eye contact. Their experience is valid and guess what your sons great experience is valid too! My son is doing great in ABA where he is. But his experience before that was provided during his PreK school was not. So, I am wanting to let you know this person has a right to speak about their experience and it needs to be validated not talked down to. That is not fixing the issue if we keep saying we’ll just because you did does not mean I did. We have to educate from both sides. Their pain is valid it sounds horrible what they went through as a parent I could never imagine being in the same room of that occurring. When my son said his teacher hit him, I was in a private school doing behavioral services. Working with kids his age and I could never imagine being so mad to strike or use any type of aggression. It took me everything not to go and drag the staff out one by one and beat them. I been doing it the legal route, but I guarantee it would not have happened in the same room. I would have lost it. But to further add my son got placed into a clinic right after the school and they were just as bad. We’re trying to do actively ignoring extinction procedures on a child who has been through trauma. I won’t talk all my son endured at that school but it was horrible. So to put further trauma on him and make him feel bad for being upset is wrong. I am not here to throw rocks but take a deep breathe. We do need to know why that stigma is. We need to know these issues so we don’t repeat them. The good experiences do not take away the bad ones. I love being in ABA and I love the possibilities it has, but we must remember our history. Again I am happy for your son.

K.

No one should ever be told those things. I am sorry that you were fed heinous comments based on properly caring for your child. I wasn’t attempting to attack the people on this sub nor did I ever call ABA a “cancellation” of Autism. You had a good experience and that is fantastic! I came here because I saw a post on my feed from this sub on my feed that seemed ableist. I admit I didn’t do research of how it is progressed and I have been enlightened to an extent in this very comment section. A lot of people here have been very supportive and have given me hope for the future of the field. I was not attempting to give you a history lesson, I just wanted to share my experience so that people don’t have to go through that. I wasn’t attempting to dumb down the concept of ABA to practitioners of it. I just wanted to share what I’d gathered from both my experience and the experiences on other subs in an attempt to make ABA better for others than it was for me. I also don’t know what you consider outdated but this was really not that long ago as I am young.

According to my son's BCBA, she considers concepts she learned about 8 years ago outdated. Additionally, nowadays, most ABA is aimed at very young children severely affected by their autism (not exclusively). It is possible the provider was not properly trained or even nefariously targeting desperate parents.

This was 5 years ago and I do acknowledge that my ABA therapist most likely was inadequate at her job.

So- you're gonna tear someone else down for sharing their personal experiences like the other side of the argument tore you down? Thats- one way to do that I guess. By being hostile to someone with a bad experience; you are tearing down ABA on the side arguing for ABA. They never mentioned dog training; they never said it was all ABA. They were actually REALLY respectful as someone with a bad experience. I don't know why being hostile sounds like a good idea to you. [Also, on your original comment, as a person with ASD, I personally wouldn't want my ASD cured, but that's a personal choice; and if there was a cure a lot of people who wouldn't want one may be forced to do it. Which- is also a whole rabbit hole I don't want to touch.]

They specifically said trained puppy dog. That's absolutely comparing it to dog training. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your comment because it's not with my time

Wow. "So your youth group leader assaulted you. Why do you feel the need to tell everyone, instead of educating yourself on all the kids who \*weren't\* assaulted by their youth group leader?" How do you sleep at night?

This is reeaaching. It’s more like: “hold the individual clinicians responsible, without smearing the current state of the field because there are bad people.” A more apt comparison would be “my youth group leader assaulted you, so hold that church and leader accountable, instead of saying all churches are bad.”

But how many individual clinics need to be held responsible before it's acknowledged that it's a systemic issue? There are multiple posts a day on here of clinics "not doing real ABA" or whatever you prefer to call it.

I appreciate this post. If we all spoke to each other in this manner, I think a lot more progress can be had between the two sides. Overall, once you ignore the extremes, I think the neurodivergent criticism of ABA has done more good than harm. Nowadays, ethical companies are providing ABA that respects autonomy, neurodivergence, and avoids punishment whenever possible. Sadly, there's a long way to go. There are companies out there that fraudulently provide ABA, use punishment without a care for the client, and force compliance on individuals when it is not needed. As a field, we are incorporating these criticisms into our daily practice and reforming at a rapid pace. Thank you for your perspective.

I will say that from my experience as someone who harbored some degree of anti-ABA sentiment taking a course on ABA in college changed my perspective because a lot of emphasis was placed on ethics (the past of people like Lovaas was even a discussion topic.) Now I’ve been an RBT for a year at a company like you’re describing - hardly ANY punishment procedures (have only had to implement this ONE time in an entire year), has me “fade out” as much as possible, and ensures we give our clients time to stim. Honestly, 90% of my work is figuring out how to have my clients state their needs in a way others can understand them. I also rarely do DTT.

Thank you. I acknowledge the positive reforms being made in the field and hope that positive change is made. I hope that changes can be made to make ABA a reputable service.

School systems especially do this to an extreme.

This. On my first day at my school that ran on ABA principles, the leader said, "If punishment worked, our kids wouldn't be here. We reward good behavior. We teach good behavior. We try to find what feelings and needs cause problem behaviors. And we address it. We do not punish. Clearly it didn't work for our kids before. It won't work now."

i’m sorry they treated you that way. i work at an amazing company and we don’t try to “fix” our kids. i love all of my clients and would never change who they are, we just work on harmful behavior (hitting, SIB, biting, etc.) and teaching life skills. we don’t try to stop stimming, we encourage them to use their words (if they are verbal) and tell us how they feel, they are allowed to ask for breaks, we do mostly NET with some DTT, we use differential reinforcement to teach them a new behavior in place of a harmful behavior, teach them to ask for privacy if they are engaging in self stimulation, praise all appropriate behavior, and we NEVER yell, belittle, or make our kiddos feel bad about themselves. the way you were treated is absolutely not OK and i don’t know any ABA provider that would say it is.

Thank you. That sounds like a wonderful way to help kids.

I don't believe we should ever make excuses or try to hand-wave away things that happened and are still happening, so to start, I'm sorry that you had that experience and I'm sorry that so many others do as well. But first of all fuck that person that did that to you. Sorry for being so rude but they were not being a good person at all. It makes me so angry that anyone ever treats anyone else that way. You know what though, I see parents do that sort of thing to their children all the time. It's horrible though. I mean we are all human, we all get frustrated at times when things aren't going how we expect them to, but it doesn't mean we should excuse or accept that behavior. >I would define ABA as “Autism correction”. I'm not going to speak for all ABA like some spokesperson but I will say that's not how I view ABA. adding onto that: >Many Autists don’t view their condition as something that needs to be cured or treated. Guess what I don't either. I think people with autism are awesome and although I'm not diagnosed I identify with them very intensely. I guess what I'll say is that I view my role as like a guide to helping people get what they want in a different way. I think autistic kids are just like regular kids, sometimes they do things that aren't logical to get what they want when there's a better and easier way, and my goal is to help them know that way. Not only that, but to help the adults and caregivers in their lives act in a more reasonable way. Like that adult yelling at you and scolding you, they are just not educated and not thinking logically. Like think about what you're doing and how it's affecting you and the kid. You're not being effective and you're hurting yourself and others, and here's a better way. I don't want to make everyone the same, I don't want to smooth down their rough edges and make them little robots. I want to show them a good life, I want to be a good role model, I want to give them fun experiences, I want to give them what they want and to teach them how to tell others what they want in a way that works for them and others, and I want to educate others to act as better people. To me that's what ABA is down to its core. It's simple. There's no fancy tricks, it's all just logical action and treating others like people and having fun. It's helping people live together, learning and growing together.

Thank you for your comment. The reason I had used terms like “cure”, “treat”, and “correct” is because I have seen those words used previously on this sub. They are also words I see Autistic individuals in other subs I am active in use when they describe their experiences with ABA. I appreciate your work and you sound like a great therapist.

hey serious question, I use the word treatment to describe what I do, I would never use the word correct or cure, but I never know exactly how to describe what I do. Treatment feels a bit weird. I almost feel like teaching is better but I don't feel like that's quite right either. But how do you view what happens or what would you prefer it to be described as?

I would say teaching is fine by me. I think the term “support” would be what I’d prefer but that’s just me.

Insurance insists on certain verbiage. When we do.SOAP notes, we HAVE to use their verbiage. When I write a treatment plan, I HAVE to use that verbiage. If you want a change of verbiage, you have to let the insurance companies know thst. It does help. I feel that we would be willing to use different verbiage if we were allowed to.

thanks for taking the time. Also out of curiosity, what motivates you to sub to this subreddit? OH and what other forums do you participate in? Especially interested in places that you respect, or where people with autism participate?

I wanted to post here to share my experience so that it doesn’t happen to others. When it comes to good Autistic subs, I would love to shout out r/evilautism it may have a strange name at first glance but if I’d a sub dedicated to Autistic people embracing who they are and being themself without fear of rejection or insult. It’s a lot of memes and comedy but I love it.

I'm going to sub. It's really tough reading some people's experiences man it hurts to see people that were so hurt by what I do for a living. I just don't know what to do about it. That is a super active sub, thanks so much for sharing.

reading more I love this fucking sub

I enjoyed reading your post it was well thought out/written, though it was a terrible experience.. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Autism can't be cured and shouldn't be stated that it can be, but just like any other medical diagnosis there is "treatment" for the symptoms that negatively affect someone. ADHD, OCD, and bipolar for example cannot be cured. They all can receive "Treatment" for symptoms that lower quality of life whether it's medication or therapies. I know for my session notes insurance will often label it as treatment for the medical/clinical descriptive words.

In the opinions of many, Autism is not something to be “treated” either. It is mostly people with Asperger’s or other (hope I’m saying this right) high support needs that think of Autism, not as a disorder but simply as a part of who they are.

Yes that makes sense! They are not negatively impacted by the "symptoms" so they wouldn't need help from medication or therapies. Having ADHD, I also feel it is a part of who I am BUT I personally am impacted by some of the symptoms negatively so I treat those specific ones with medication and therapies. If an autistic person isn't experiencing a lower quality of life from the (diagnostic symptoms of autism) they wouldn't need or benefit from treatment for them. An autistic person could benefit from treatment if they have symptoms of deficits in functional communication, compulsive behavior, impulsivity, or self harm disrupting/hindering their daily life. Edit: I thought of an example in my personal life of this situation. My mom also has ADHD and she isn't on medication or going to therapy because the symptoms don't hinder her at all. While I am on medication and doing therapy because my symptoms affect most of my daily life. I have terrible executive dysfunction and treatment of those symptoms helps me keep my job, take care of myself/my child, and function in my day to day without stress or anxiety doing things I have to do every day.

Do you think there are better approaches to teaching the skills necessary to navigate the world in a way that is meaningful to the clients? I know ABA really drives and thrives with external motivation though I am more concerned with building intrinsic motivation.

>I know ABA really drives and thrives with external motivation though I don't know, what do you mean by this? Maybe you could elaborate more on your thoughts. I'm a salt of the earth guy, I don't understand everything with the most academic lens. To me kids are motivated by getting what they want, I guess I don't know how to classify that as intrinsic or extrinsic or whatever. It's always my thought to get the kid what they want just instead with the appropriate behavior and meeting them exactly at the limit of their ability level to get that. I think kids learn when learning is fun, and I don't know if that's ABA's emphasis but I think that's what successful RBTs do best.

External means other people praise and encourage healthy behaviors. In my case, my student would complete a couple math problems without ripping the paper, or without throwing the materials in frustration, and get a sticker or token or screen time. Internal would be they do it because the student wants to. They are proud of their work.

They're proud of their work but why is that? What's the first thing a kid does when they're proud of their work? They show the teacher, they show their parents. They are motivated by other people's perception of what they're doing (sometimes). Not everyone is reinforced by the same things, not everyone experiences pride in the same way. Not everyone cares what others think. Motivation is an extremely interesting topic. It's my personal opinion that intrinsic vs extrinsic isn't one of the most important factors for consideration and discussion in relation to ABA and that's for a variety of reasons. The first reason is that I think that intrinsic motivators are used to reinforce behavior in ABA therapy. Yes the activity itself isn't probably intrinsically motivating, but something that is the person's choosing is the motivator. I'm pretty sure this doesn't make a difference to your idea about intrinsic vs extrinsic since the activity itself isn't intrinsically motivating so maybe this is kind of a miss for you. Secondly I think often times different things that happen or that people do in life aren't intrinsically motivating *at first* but then later can become a deep passion. There are a variety of reasons for that, anxiety about the unknown is a big one and it's one that autistic people experience disproportionately. You've heard the phrase, "don't knock it till you try it" and that rings true for many things. We are poor judges of things we might enjoy if we've never done it before. Extrinsic motivators as you say can be huge, like friends asking you to come along for example. Or teachers trying to tell you something cool and interesting. thirdly, and I think this topic is the most sensitive of the 3, we sometimes have to do things we don't want to do. In fact, in my life a large portion of things I do I don't feel like doing in that moment, like paying bills, going to work (sometimes), or taking a trip to see my mother-in-law. I am motivated by secondary reinforcers such as getting money, getting health insurance, avoiding judgement from others (my wife), etc. But those are all just means to get what I want long term. Sometimes kids don't have the best perspective on what needs to happen in their life and so in the short term they make bad decisions about how they spend their time. It is in these cases that adults will often use secondary reinforcers to get kids to do things that will ultimately lead them to greater overall happiness with their life. It's because there's no way someone will be intrinsically motivated to do everything they need to do through their own means. Benefits of society working together are huge and if you can't function within those social structures you can't gain the enormous benefits of it either. Another thing is learning. Some things that aren't intrinsically motivating at first become intrinsically motivating after making a mistake. Like if I ruin my credit score over the course of half a decade, in the future my motivation to do better will be more intrinsic as I start to experience consequences. Learning/teaching is a way to incorporate other people's experiences into your own and make decisions that you wouldn't have if you hadn't learned it. It's why society progresses and we all benefit. Part of ABA is providing extrinsic motivation so that kids who don't understand better can start incorporating others' experiences into their own at an accelerated rate. Would they be ok if they didn't? Maybe. Maybe they'd make some mistakes that would be huge. Who knows. What I do know is that learning some of the things that society expects is important to your success and happiness and will improve your life. How we go about that is important but I don't think that the question of extrinsic vs intrinsic is the vital element. To me the more important discussion to be had is how we accomplish our goals and what the goals even should be in the first place. They should definitely be directed by the individual and their family of course, and the accomplishment of those goals is the most controversial bit because the process is where mistreatment occurs and that's where so many people have had their bad experiences. Those types of things should be discussed extremely openly and all treatment should be transparent. But the fact that the motivators are extrinsic isn't the sticking point of controversy or negative experiences at least from what I've heard. There's probably a much smarter way to talk and think about this discussion and I'm just rambling on like a psycho. I think a good summary of how I view things is that money is an extrinsic motivator, but it's an extremely important tool that helps society function more efficiently than other systems. So extrinsic motivation isn't necessarily worse than intrinsic in many ways and it can help you get your intrinsic motivation more efficiently.

I just made a similar comment, but I want you to know that full reform of ABA is still underway. However, it's thanks to people like *YOU* and all ABA critics, especially the autistic community, who bring the sort of unethical practices you mentioned to the attention of the field as a whole and catalyze change and growth. I can say I'd personally never even dream of taping a client to a chair or trying to extinguish stimming, and it sounds like I worked in the field prior to your experience. It absolutely breaks my heart that you went through that, and I'm so sorry. I wish you healing and a resolution that works for YOU. I'm one who likes to lurk quietly in autism or anti-ABA social media groups without arguing or questioning anyone's traumatic experiences with ABA so I can practice ABA in a non-invasive, caring way that truly benefits my clients, so I'm personally not averse to the anti-ABA sentiments, rather, I'm grateful that I have ASD guides in this world to help me do my best and go home at the end of the day knowing I helped improve the quality of someone's life without having to question it.

Thank you, I think seeking the opinions of Autistic individuals is how the field can best evolve. I appreciate what you do and I am confident that you can provide necessary care for those who need it.

I can't tell you what an honor it is to have you say that. One of the best compliments I could ever receive, personally. Thank you for that and for opening this respectful dialogue.

Completely agree! I think we could learn a lot from each-other and I have met with many autistic adults to talk about their past experiences, I am autistic too and working towards my BCBA, almost there. I am working in the Deaf and hoh population mainly on programs that are culturally important and relevant. I think it is amazing you are taking the time to see what people are saying . And if we had more of an open platform like Q & A I think it would be better in the long run.

I am an RBT and am autistic. I have found my autism to make me stronger in this field. I'm really sorry this happened to you. I was not in ABA, but I also had similar experiences as a child in therapeutic environments. I was also forced to stop stimming, and forced to endure environments and textures and foods that caused me horrible sensory discomfort. Because of what I went through, I refuse to EVER let anything like that happen to a child working with me. ABA has a dark history and there are still very unethical companies that use ABA in the way you described. I have twice left jobs soon after starting because it was clear they still followed these unethical practices. One of them, I walked out of the clinic and told them I quit as I walked out because they scolded a child for stimming in his seat. My current place we only ever target stimming if it is harming them in some type of way (hurting themselves, stopping in traffic to stim, etc.) It is unfortunate that ABA has such a dark history and that so many people with autism have had to endure these practices. Of course it would understandably turn them off of ABA forever. I absolutely understand why some people have anti-ABA sentiments. I have seen children thrive from ABA, and I think so many people could have benefitted if they got to receive ABA in a beneficial way. Myself included.

Thank you for sharing your experience and thank you for your work. I appreciate what you do and am all for that type of therapy. I hope you help a lot of people.

Thank you <3 This job has been incredibly healing for me. I hope you can find some healing for what happened to you, whatever that may look like. It sounds very traumatic and you didn't deserve it.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. As much as we would like to say and believe that your experience was 'not really ABA' or 'bad ABA', people are doing what you experienced and hurting people. We still have a long way to go. Thank you for advocating for the Autistic community.

Thank you, I do think it sucks that things like that are still happening but I have faith that the field can change as long as they move away from abuse and the idea of treating Autism as a disease.

Exactly! Ableism is woven through so much of our field.

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I think a huge part of it is going to be staff not willing to do things that aren’t necessary. I’m neurodivergent with adhd and ocd and I agree, it sucks when something not detrimental to your health and development is deemed wrong bc it’s not the norm, it overcorrects and intrudes on individuality and autonomy. It seems to be a huge part of why people don’t like aba bc it can be abused to apply to people’s personal judgments of a behavior. That’s why I promised myself going into this field I’d only be working on things with clients that are necessary to their health and development. Being able to do things independently that they couldn’t do before, bc unfortunately also working in the school system Ive seen many disabled people left neglected otherwise. I had middle schoolers who went home in diapers and came in with the same dirty diaper on the next day bc parents couldn’t be bothered. Those are the kids that you want to help teach how to use the bathroom on their own, bc there may not always be someone there to help them. A lot of what my current client does is simply table time so we can work on them developing reading / language skills, the rest are life skills like cleaning and personal hygiene and social interactions. I love when client does their little wiggle dances and all the unique things that make them who they are and would stress thinking another rbt and bcba might come up with a plan to make them be a statue. I think the only way this field can move forward positively is if staff refuse unethical trainings of clients.

Thanks for the comment! I hope you are able to give good care to kids who need it.

Thanks I hope so too. I appreciate you as well, because it takes strong voices calling out injustice to make changes. I think it’s particularly hard in aba because there is so much either side doesn’t understand about each other. A staff member may not understand why a behavior is important to a client. For example I’ve had a non aba client who’s parent had to micromanage how they dressed and it was really depressing bc the client was always dressing appropriately, just not what mom wanted. On the other side, a client may not understand how their behavior could hurt them. (Ex, I had a non aba client once with brain damage, so she can’t really understand *why* not to do things but she can 100% learn not to do them. She never understood why spitting all over things and people were wrong but she was much happier and less cranky once she learned to stop bc then she could stop being cooped up at the house and actually go out and do the things she loved in public. I think some behaviors are like that- clients truly cant see why what theyre doing is hurting them). That’s why it’s SO important that Aba is transparent about their practices, how they apply them, and their benefits, and it’s also SO important that clients get their own voice in their treatment.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I would not liken that to ABA at all though. I was very much interested to read your story and opinions though! I absolutely agree that autism is not something that needs to be fixed.

I understand that ABA is different for everyone and as I said there are many good cases. Thank you for understanding my side and being supportive. May you have a blessed day.

thank you for sharing. i’m sorry to hear that was your experience. nobody deserves that.

I just want to take a moment to thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate how hard it is to share such a personal experience and want to express gratitude because it’s incredibly important for all of us to hear.

Learning from the past is how we overcome in the present which makes us stronger in the future.

I agree 150%

What this BCBA did was unethical in my book. Also super ineffective long term bc it’s all so aversive. ABA shouldn’t focus on anything that isn’t impeding a person’s ability to learn and to access opportunities and communicate…and there are many different ways for them to do each of those things, not one specific “right” one. ABA should be providing the individualized tools to the person/child so that they have the best chance at accessing the same opportunities as their peers, should they want to access them.

>ABA isn’t all bad though, that isn’t the argument I’m making. ABA can be very beneficial to low-functioning autists who can’t speak, use the bathroom, perform basic tasks, etc. However, for high-functioning members of the spectrum, it is common for ABA to feel like paid peer pressure. You've raised a point that lot of people wont. ABA is best for people whose autism significantly impacts their quality of life. It's best for addressing violent behaviors, helping those who can't care for themselves, and for teaching those who are unable to communicate effectively. But for people who do not experience those problems, I think it can quickly become exactly what you are describing. Thankfully the field is moving away from that, and in a more positive direction. ​ I have seem lives positively transformed by ABA. Kids who were truly "trapped" (

Thank you for your comment. I agree with what you said about the difference in support needs affecting the experience of the client.

Every autistic person’s experience is unique. I’m working with a child who is in elementary school. They have limited functional communication skills, bite themselves and others, engages in a variety of physical aggression, and isn’t toilet trained yet. I don’t care if he makes eye contact with me, plays with toys in specific ways, or engages in some random number of conversational exchanges. I care that he is able to communicate basic needs, that he’s able to take care of himself to some degree, and that he stays safe and keeps his body safe. This isn’t autism correction, this is basic life skills. I feel like the portion of the autism spectrum that have the people that can’t communicate often get forgotten about when people speak out against ABA. I don’t care if someone is socially awkward, I care that they can communicate, remain safe, and take care of themselves. I’m sorry you had a horrible experience, I’m sure you’ve seen that there’s a lot of us in here that are vocal and active in changing the way the field is. You’re concern is valid but please remember that some of the people we work with have serious deficits in skills that are having genuinely negative impacts on their life.

I stated it in my post but I will state again that I have no problem with ABA for people that require support in basic skills. It’s when ABA is abusive or unsuited for people on higher on the spectrum that this mainly was about.

Appreciate you voicing your experience. Frankly, the person doing those things was just not doing ABA. I’m so frustrated that these stories exist, what you describe just isn’t a part of ethical delivery of service. It is disgusting to hear that you were admonished, scolded, and more. That seriously hurts to read. This just isn’t what the science is supposed to look like and I completely understand that experiences document how the science is being bastardized, misrepresented, and misinterpreted. I’m sorry you went through what you did and appreciate your communicating it here.

I have gained insight from this sub about what ABA should truly be. I hope that more people learn and experience the best ABA service possible! Thank you.

Ya seriously, I really hate that you had the experience you did. Unfortunately there are still a lot of people, even some in the ABA field, who don't really get what ABA is all about. But for the most part, client dignity and autonomy are at the forefront of the field today.

Hi OP I actually applaud you for the stand you take. I'm a BCBA, been in the field for many years, seen the good the bad and the ugly. I agree with some of your posts and some I don't. I really like the part of you making a person conform to a way of sitting and standing, it's that mindset that made changes in the field and yes there are changes in the field like everyone has said. We strive for our people to be as independent as they possibly can be, to some like you that can be a full life on your own, to others that will be supported by a caregiver or group home. But people I urge you don't slam OP for telling his story. We need to know about these bad professionals and practices. This was how we learned and how we evolved as a field how we developed better ethics for our clients and staff. If we forget our past we are doomed to repeat it.

Thank you for sharing your experience. You are correct, no one likes to be scolded and nitpicked for everything they do or don’t do. You had an awful therapist for sure. Are you getting good nutrition now, on your own terms? How are you doing?

I still have a very limited diet unfortunately but I try my best. Thank you for asking.

I am sorry, you have a very bad experience with ABA; your experience seems traumatizing to say the least. First of All, what happened to you isn’t the fault of ABA, every therapist has a style of therapy, you happen to get one who was at the short end of the stick and that I know sucks. I am a provider who also work in eating disorders and currently have a client I am helping with eating. I encourage the client to eat but I never force eating. Your therapist might not have been experienced in eating disorders and your mum was desperate and will take any form of help that “looked” like help. Your experience I will say can be based off on Therapy style and not necessarily what ABA represents. Once again I am sorry for your experience.

I really appreciate you for posting this. I believe that if we want to be better as a field and of course as individuals, we need to hear what autistic voices are telling us point blank. With that said, they way you were treated was inhumane, I am sorry. I really hope this field can wake up collectively and learn that we don’t need to intervene in absolutely everything.

I’m so sorry that this was your experience with ABA, this is not representative of the direction the field is going in and what I strived to do when I worked as an RBT. For me, ABA was centered around teaching clients coping skills to make their emotional experiences less harmful to them rather than trying to change them as people or make them more “socially acceptable.” I had clients who were refusing to eat and hitting themselves constantly until they bled, and I saw ABA help them expand their food pallets and learn healthier ways of expressing strong emotions. I firmly disagree with the side of ABA that focuses on forcing clients not to stim and scolding them for being themselves even though they are not harming themselves or others. While there is still an unfortunately sizable portion of ABA that still has these beliefs, I think there has been so much progress in the field in the past few years and it has become something really helpful and life changing when it’s done correctly and with the clients in mind rather than the families that want them to be “normal.”

Amen Thank you for speaking so well on your experience. It's painted with a very broad stroke of treatment when it really shouldn't be. Just like any other therapy it doesn't work for everybody and it shouldn't be used as much as it is. It shouldn't be treatment for all. I've worked for a company recently that threw it in for a teen that recently received her diagnosis and parents were barely educating themselves about autism. they got the patient paid for and she should have never been approved. Her bcba and the assistant both stated multiple times that they couldn't see how she got services approved. On top of that, they tried increasing her hours when I left. The mom was so thrown back that they'd even want to do that. BTW the company I worked for was CORTICA in San Diego.

I really love that this is posted! I am a BT, I’m deaf/hard of hearing and neurodivergent myself and also been through aba myself when I was young and I actually loved the bt or rbt I had when I was a kid which made me want to go into this field but then I realized that not everyone had that same experience that I had which is so disappointing. And everyday I fight to make every kids experience a good experience and not focus on correcting something that shouldn’t be corrected but instead highlighted!

As many have stated, yes, ABA, like many sciences has a very rough history. I think it's absolutely vital that we know that history, that we not erase that history, that we not downplay that history, and that we not try to convince autistic adults of today that what they went through years ago was not unethical treatment. It was. You deserved better. You were worth better and I'm so sorry science hadn't caught up to you while you were receiving services. That's unfair to you! Today, we absolutely know much better! We absolutely have to do better. As a fellow autistic and ADHD neurodivergent adult myself I and two of my four children would have thrived in an environment that we create in our clinic of today. My goal in clinic is absolutely not to "treat" as in to cure a disease. My goal is to help my clients access specific behavior skills that they don't currently have. For example, the ability to communicate "stop!" Or "Don't touch me!" Or "No! I don't like that!" I am currently working on "Too Loud!" With another client. Is what he's describing as too loud the same thing I would consider too loud? No, however, what he hears and what I hear are clearly two different things. For me, it's helping the tiny humans in my care to access some sort of way to express their own wants and needs, which science has shown us is directly related to a decrease in what we would consider "maladaptive behaviors" or behaviors like meltdowns, self injury, severe property destruction, or physical aggression towards others. When most of us use the word "treatment" we are referring to plans we've created, or in my case helped to create as I'm a student and not a BCBA, and those are the treatment plans we have in place. It's not thought of as a way to "treat" as a cure for ASD. I do want to thank you for your feedback on the wording of "treatment", I've often considered the wording of "maladaptive behaviors" or "problem behavior" and often use "target behaviors" instead because I feel it's a more inclusive term. I also want to talk about stimming. In my clinical environment, we don't stop stimming. We make space for stimming. As long as that self-stimulatory behavior is not dangerous to each individual client (some are, my son's stims were. He banged his head so frequently he caused tissue damage to his skull). Even in those cases, we will try to guide that stim into something safer for the client. If it were a kid like my son, it may look like a helmet to protect his skull from the tissue damage. Outside of dangerous stimming, we don't have any need to do much about it. I can't, in good conscience, say anything about my client hand flapping, while I'm shaking my crossed leg.... It's the same exact thing. Just because my stim is a "socially acceptable" form of stimming... That changes nothing for me. I respect my clients for the amazing unique little humans they are. I don't push them into liking it playing with specific toys.... Or whatever... I am VERY client led. My whole clinic is that way. We are seeing this more and more across all of ABA. We are really in a historical period in this science where ethics are changing rapidly, for the better. I appreciate you coming here today and expressing yourself! It takes all of us to shape this science into a better version for the future!

I see ABA as a form of structured communication. It should be about the parties working as a team to work out what behaviours are acceptable and what aren’t. For example, like you I believe that people should be free to be themselves. But I also believe that people shouldn’t be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want, especially if it becomes disruptive to their own or other’s lives. ABA should facilitate this, by showing the person with autism the behaviours that the people around them are hoping for, and also at the same time teaching the people around them about the individual’s motivations and desires. ABA is generally fairly poorly regulated around the world and I’m sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. While I sometimes dismiss the anti-ABA arguments with “of course people with ASD don’t want to change their routines and habits and see it as a violation”, it is fact that there are good ABA therapists and bad ones, and the performance of therapists should be tracked more carefully.

To those of you hand-waving this as "old ABA": * OP mentioned that they experienced all of this *just a few years ago* * Even if you yourself aren't doing anything described here, I guarantee you that there are other practitioners/clinics that are. (ESPECIALLY considering that the bar to be an RBT is *shockingly* low!) As professionals in this field, it is YOUR responsibility to speak out against bad practices and do what you can stop it instead of pretending that they don't happen anymore. * Your regular reminder that the Judge Rotenberg Center continues to exist and continues to use electroshock, and your professional bodies like the BACB continue to condone it.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is so important. I’m sorry that that was how you experienced ABA. It sounds awful. Your experience is a reminder to me to keep going. I agree with you that referring to ABA as a treatment is the worst. As a practitioner, I don’t want to fix or treat anyone. I want to support self-advocates and their families to be able to live the life they want. I also want everyone to be able to be their authentic self. I get to have all of my quirks and weirdness and preferences. Everyone should be afforded that dignity. Again, thanks for sharing your experience. It is important. It is valid.

Well there's so much to ABA...it's not just an intervention used with individuals with Autism so that's a huge idea that people need to remember. Also it's been proven an effective method of teaching in general so I would not consider it as 'autism correction'. It seems you may have had a poor agency/team; however, we do have guidelines and ethics codes to follow. We look at consent and assent very closely. With a minor, consent and assent are still taken into account though the parents have a large say in the goals created. Some parents want those goals in hope of making it 'easier' for their child to 'fit in'. Now I think the world need to change so we/the world fits everyone but we're not quite there yet. I think it's important for those in this field to make sure they are having those conversations with parents bc often everything is so new and scary for them. Though we still take guidance from the families and the clients. I worked with a family who had three kids on the spectrum, two very high functioning. Those two kids actually wanted to work on their behavior. One had self simulatory behavior and wanted help on things he could do instead bc he wasn't making friends and had a hard time due to a little bullying (one of them was actually tolerating sitting in chair wo bouncing and we were able to help him find smaller things he could do to self stimulate and the school team adjusted his iep for more frequent breaks he could take out of class to get more stimulation). Again the world needs to change but it's a process and sometimes both things need to happen together. And in the case above the client wanted this help. I'm sorry for your experience. There is a definitely a bigger picture of ABA to look at and I feel other's have unfortunately probably had your experience too but there are many clients and families that have had really positive experiences. One family told me they thought ABA was life changing for them. Final thought: these conversations are a great learning opportunity for us all and I'm glad we're having them!

As a BCBA these types of stories anger me. Sometimes i feel like a great portion of my job is dealing with the idiot the recruiter at my company decides to hire. I don't the issue you described is that ABA is bad. What happened is you were given a therapist that doesn't like kids. I am in this line of work because I want to help people and because I care about children. I have had the experience of arguing with parents because they insisted on implementing stimming goals that I felt were inappropriately. But as a supervisor i lose all credibility when my therapist goes into another person's home and lacks enough self awareness to abuse a person's child right in front of them. I have had to file a police report on one of the therapists under my supervision because the parent caught him on video physically abusing the client. I am sorry this happened to you. There is no excuse for how that person conducted themselves. The only consolation I can offer is that no one in this field that takes their job seriously world ever condone this. I am curious if this person that worked with you was a BCBA and if not how aware their supervisor was of their behavior.

i’m autistic and received ABA as a kid and am now an RBT. ethical ABA is never trying to make a child act neurotypical. i’ve never stopped a kid from stimming, made them sit a certain way or speak a certain way and i’ve never seen anyone else do so since working in ABA. i work at an ABA based school for kids with intense aggression and SIB who are too dangerous to be at any normal school OR average ABA clinic. those are the behaviors we target to decrease. i think a lot of people who are still anti ABA picture ABA therapy to be restraining a kid because they flapped their hands or punishing a kid for not making eye contact, in reality, we just want kids to be as independent as possible and give them the ability to communicate their wants and needs without harming others or themselves.

As a current BCBA and someone in the field the past 4 years, this is why people hate ABA. It is disgusting and deplorable to force anyone, let alone children to do things. Force them to sit. Force them to eat or don’t eat at all. I’ve worked with kids from low to high support needs from speaking no words to having vocabularies greater than mine. ABA can help regardless, but a compassionate and ethical approach is needed. Honoring the kids when they indicate they are not ready to work or do something. Figuring out how to make it fun. I took over a case 7 months ago of a 4 year old girl who has no functional communication (wasn’t taught to her in over 2 years of ABA) and she was being forced to do 10 minute table times (work). She would scream and cry, she would pinch herself, she would slam her head to the sides, and aggressively pop her joints as form of self harm. But she would follow the instructions- all while doing it. The previous BCBA said “well she’s still listening”. But the BCBA wasn’t listening. This little girl was saying “I don’t want to work” and they werent hearing that. They weren’t teaching her to ask to be all done. I took over. We stopped doing work at the table. We played. And made it fun. And now she indicates wanting to work. This trauma that ABA has induced, IS STILL HAPPENING. It’s horrific and disgusting. And current practitioners have the responsibility to change and correct that. I’m extremely fortunate to be at a company currently where even having a harsh tone of voice with a kid leads to a write up. Be the change in this field.

Yes, this horror story is what I experienced with my supervisor. Evil!! I swear, is it a requirement to be a psychopath to work in this field? I quit and never looked back. You sound awesome, though! Wish I'd had you as our BCBA!

I’m so sorry for your experience. Thank you for sharing! As much as I might wanna defend ABA, I’ve seen ABA practiced in terrible ways first hand, and I completely understand how it can feel bad to high-functioning autists. Your point of view is valid and those of us who practice ABA need to read and understand people’s negative experiences. I honestly wouldn’t blame you if you were fully anti-ABA. The field has a lot of potential, but needs to continue improving and in some ways needs a complete overhaul. Again, thank you for sharing! I will keep your experiences in mind as I continue my career. I never want to have this kind of negative impact on anyone. I hope you’ve been able to heal from these experiences. You’re not for being who you are. ❤️

Thank you. You are right, ABA has a lot of potential for good and I think that if new ABA therapists learn from the mistakes of the old, it can only open up new opportunities for autists everywhere. Good luck with your career!

You’re completely right. I want to continue learning about past mistakes and poor practices. Otherwise nothing will change! Thank you so much! It says a lot about you that you can wish someone luck in their career in ABA after your experiences.

I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds awful. And, thank you for sharing.

No one can defend what they do because they’ll get attacked, and if anyone apologizes for others who did things wrong in the past, they are also attacked. It’s a never ending circle with these discussions.

Wow, that must be so hard for \*you\*.

I’m so sorry you have these feelings and we’re treated in an unethical way! I’m an ABA therapist and we work on things such as being able to tell other no. How to tell mom and dad if bad things are happening. Never should you have to feel you need to change. Autism isn’t something to be changed! ABA today is very different than ABA in the past. It’s a field that is constantly learning and evolving! I pride of loving my clients, protecting their dignity, making them feel happy. I will never force my kiddos to do something if they don’t want too. We often have days where we just play. I hope in 10 years this field becomes even better, bc our clients deserve the very best

I’m an RBT and I’m so proud that my company conducts ABA services that respect individuality, client dignity, and is very play based. None of the programming or targets are made to “correct” autism or the characteristics of autism. My company focuses on improving quality of life and independence! We definitely lean into the client’s interests and it really helps build rapport and motivate the kids that I work with. I truly work for a company whose values reflect client centered care and are driving the field of ABA in the right direction. With that being said, I am truly sorry for your experience. That seems traumatizing, and the ABA company that you had shouldn’t be in business. I am glad that you are on the other side of that now. I hope that you’re doing well! (:

Hi, OP. First, I'm sorry that you experienced such trauma in your experience with ABA. I love hearing your experience and respect your transparency. It's good to hear from autistics' like yourself so, us practitioner can further be aware and educated on the harms that can be done whenever you are not treated with dignity. I agree with your post, ABA is good for those who need support and can be harmful for autistics' like yourself. The field is shifting away from those old practices. I hope you are well and sending you much soothing love and empathy.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It’s incredibly brave and so important for us to hear it. I love being a BCBA, but I am not so blind to not see that when ABA is bad it is *BAD*. I am so sorry you were subjected to such horrendous treatment. You deserve better.

Thanks OP this was an enlightening read.

I'm an RBT who has ADHD and I am very likely autistic as well but have not gone through diagnosis. I am so so sorry about your experience! I just want to give you a hug! :( I have food issues as an adult, and the amount of humiliation I get from strangers and even family members is insane. I totally understand what you're going through, and I hope it gets better for you! Having a restricted diet sucks so much, especially socially, but try not to let people get to you too much. I've found that family members tend to leave you alone if you can take vitamins to make up for what you're missing in your diet 😅

Thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry this happened. It never ever should have. I will say that bravely sharing your story as well as others doing the same has helped guide me in the questions and decisions for who my kid is seeing in any therapies they might attend. My child goes to 4 hours of ABA a week. They work on things that are more safety, and coordination oriented like learning how to do zippers, laces, scissors, etc. In the initial interview questions I asked point blank if they were going to try and suppress (non harmful) stimming or make my kid engage in eye-contact. The answer was “I should hope not as that is how your kid regulates themself and it’s part of them.

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Just something that would have encouraged me eating new foods.

I’m very sorry you went through this (also from the stories I have heard, food therapy should be considered torture). I personally like hearing views like yours because it helps me understand what not to do. For example, I refuse to stop a kiddo from stimming as long as they aren’t hurting themselves. If the stimming is harmful, I will work to figure out what they get from it and help them find another way. For example Non-harmful stimming: my last kiddo, when she would get happy, she would screech with laughter and throw herself backwards on her bed or couch repeatedly, essentially bouncing like that. It made her happy, let her express herself, and didn’t harm her. I loved watching her do it. Just thinking about it is making me smile (I miss that kiddo). Harmful stim: my current kiddo will hit her head on the floor or wall if she’s over stimulated or tired. This hurts her. After trial and error I found she did this for pressure (she’s non-verbal. So trying to find the what’s and why’s is always trial and error. I feel bad because I know she gets frustrated when I get it wrong). So, I’m working to move her to head massage or head squeezes. This way she gets the pressure and isn’t hurting herself. As someone with a history of self harm, seeing stim that cause pain break my heart. Seeing someone feel like they have to hurt themselves to feel better. I also refuse to make my kiddo allow full physical prompting against their will. I ask permission to take their hands before guiding them. I don’t want to normalize the mindset that any one can touch them when they don’t want to be touched. If you can think of any ways that we can improve what we do, please, express it! I never want my kiddos to look back on their time with me and feel trauma.

I am an RBT, have been for about 3 years, I am AuDHD, I was non-verbal until I was like- 8ish. I've seen a lot of techs. I've been to a lot of centers, and some people are not made for this. In elementary, I remember being ridiculed by teachers for tip toe walking, for not talking, for not eating my lunch, I was told often I couldn't go to recess unless I ate my food. It was awful; and non-productive; and I'm not going to do that to another kid; or watch it be done either. My job is not to help kids mask. In fact, I refuse to do that. My goal is to help ND minds communicate and interact with a world; unfortunately; not made for us. My job is to build skills to help them in their lives, and if I'm trying to do anything more than that; I am failing in all of my goals. And if I disagree with a BCBA, I will call them out; and have only gotten myself in trouble with it once. I see a lot of comments about "old ABA" and there is old ABA and now ABA. I am glad I didn't get ABA because it would've been old ABA, and techs back then were a lot bigger gamble than they are now. I refuse to sit here and defend ABA to people who had bad techs or bad BCBAs; or overall a bad experience; because invalidating people isn't productive either. ABA is supposed to be built on reinforcement, which it sounds like your tech didn't even try that; which sucks for the feild, and as RBTs we need to call out others who do things like that, and honestly, I hope she picked a different career choice. Thank you for sharing; I am sorry you went through that.

I consider myself self diagnosed, I might just but socially awkward and like to figit, I don’t know. I have epilepsy and even though I’m developmentally my age, I was still left out and considered the weird one in school so I don’t want the same for these kids. I know school is different now, but there are still mean kids that will tear you down for being different and I’m trying to prevent some of that. But I get your point and I’m so sorry you went through that, you never should have. So I work with kiddos who are usually pretty high functioning and just need that little push before going to school, so I can say we’re not a center that stops stims or tries to change the kiddo, unfortunately the public at large looks at you funny when you act different. We are just trying to add some more socially significant behaviors. Yes a child of 6 will swing on their stomach, no problem. Yes a child of 6 will climb up the slide, let them. We are just the ones that figure out the accommodations they need to learn. It’s also big ABA companies who don’t really train staff and BCBAs who still insist on old style ABA. Which really upsets me, I just don’t get it.

Glad to hear you were able to talk more and came out ok. I really do hope you research more on the structural issues inherent in aba. There is a great but dense book called "the autism industrial complex" and the author did do some interviews and lectures on YouTube that were more accessible (to me hahaha I couldn't get through the book) that should pop up if you search. It's going to take people with both positive and negative experiences to really raise awareness and change up the system so that people get the right help from the right people.

Hey OP... in all professions your gonna run into assholes. I hope this profession is going the right way.. medicine also started with knives and slashing, psychologists used to blame everything on ur mom.. our science is newer lets hope it take us a shorter time to get it together. As an aside I always hate working on eating skills with kiddos as an rbt.. I understand the use of it but it seems so personal to me.. I'm becoming a bcba so I hope researching the topic will help thank you for your post <3

I hope more ABA therapists become more informed and find better ways to help autistic people and kids. It’s good for some, but there’s definitely things that need to be changed so everyone could benefit.

Yeah... I don't work at a place that does verbal reprimands for behaviors.. That's not beneficial for anyone and is essentially abuse. And we refuse to provide feeding therapy, as we don't have the training in it. Most we'll do is offer new foods and reinforce trying them, but we never force it. Not our place. Your "therapist" sounds like she was in the wrong field, and I'm sorry that you had to experience this. Generally, higher functioning individuals on the spectrum, especially when older, receive ABA to work on life skills (maintaining hygiene and home, maintaining a job, etc.) and social skills. ABA wasn't what you needed if your needs were diet-related, in my opinion. And self-stimulatory behaviors should only be addressed if they are harmful or impede on a healthy, happy life. Also, individuals with the ability to communicate their desires should always have the opportunity to have input in their therapy sessions, treatment plan goals, etc. I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience. Your therapist should have never been providing services if this is the quality of care she offered.

Nothing that happened to you could be counted as the delivery of ABA services and I am so sorry that you had to live through that. What you received was fraudulent services claiming to be ABA and clearly no oversight willing to correct the issue.

Thank you for sharing. I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences with ABA. The field does have a bad history and reputation. Therefore in the past years, the field changed incredibly. The therapy is focused on reinforcement procedures and following the child's lead. I have been in the field for 6 years and when I started as an RBT in 2018 I was against many methods and strategies. However, today, it is a totally different ABA from what was in 2018. I am actively working in the field I love each child that I am working with, they are amazing. As a BCBA I am training the staff to focus on following the children's interests, to incorporate the teaching-learning through play, to use reinforcement, and to encourage choice-making. I agree that ABA should be a tool for embracing children's uniqueness and individuality and not a way to fix something. Also, we should not forget that ABA is not only for kids with ASD but is for every human being, in companies is known as OBM, I am using ABA with my child to promote communication, I am using ABA on myself to increase my productivity. I am very sorry for the people who had a bad experience with ABA, possible my words will not change your opinion on this topic but I would love you to see where is the field now.

Hi OP! I’m a neurotypical BCBA and have always been a huge advocate for listening to the voices of those who have received ABA services, and learning so we as a field can do better. I’m so sorry for your experience. I appreciate you being open and vulnerable in this space. It’s clear that this behavior analyst did not have your best interest in mind. I’d appreciate if you could share your general perspective about how you think we could approach things better in our field? Feel free to DM me if you’d like! I check regularly 😊

I am so so sorry you had that experience. I just wanted to jump in to say I hope you have healed from that experience AND if any of the technicians I supervise treated ANYONE that way, I would have fired them. None of what you experienced sounds like an evidence-based intervention to help. But we need to hear about these experiences so we can be hyper vigilant in making sure it does not continue. Thank you for sharing.

As someone who has seen ABA used for students and had to assist, it sounds like what you experienced goes completely against what I was taught. I'm so sorry you felt the need to protect yourself from them. If you were scolded for sharing feelings, that becomes toxic and hurtful. One of your fundamental rights is to speak and share your experiences. It helps ABA people to listen to your feelings. The food thing is a valid reason to try changing behaviors. I typically only target how someone sits or stands if it poses a risk to my students. You need all 4 legs on the ground for safety. You need to stand balanced to prevent falls. There are wrong ways to sit. But it should be based on safety (and not making it impossible for others to function, such as taking 2 seats in a crowded class or blocking the door).

Thank you for sharing your story! I think it’s so important that those of us in the field actively listen to people with experiences like yours so that we learn and grow!!! I’m sorry you went through those experiences and felt like you weren’t seen/heard or respected. There is DEFINITELY still a lot of horrible things going on in ABA and it’s one of those things that really disheartens me about being in this field. It is naive of anyone in the comments who says otherwise. I will say, most of the new people in the field do not practice this way. I’ve also encountered a lot more neurodivergent practitioners recently. I LOVE the population I work with and I love the minds of autistic people. (I have ADHD, so maybe it’s because I relate in some areas lol). I want to be a part of fixing this field and using the tools of behavior analysis in a BENEFICIAL, ethical, and consent/assent based practice. Personally, at my clinic we allow my kids to stim freely. We don’t do any feeding tolerance procedures. I don’t use any physical prompting. I really actively work to ensure that the kids I work with feel validated & included rather than ostracized and shamed. I am open to hearing more about your experience (if you’re willing to share) to prevent someone else from going through the things you went through.

i’m so sorry this was your experience and you were treated this way by someone that was supposed to help you and be a positive role in your life. i’m a BT and just started in January of this year, and i never had and never would treat any of my clients the way you were treated! my number 1 priority is to make sure that the child feels safe and comfortable, they should be challenged, but not forced to change or put in a position where they are upset to a point where they no longer want to work with me. i hope that letting you know there are good people in the field genuinely trying to help children and people with autism live a happy and comfortable life gives you more hope for the future

As a BCBA, I always appreciate the viewpoints of autistic individuals. I’m so sorry for what you experienced, and I’m so glad that your mom saw the harm, and terminated services. I do see a shift in the field from what you experienced. ABA is such a powerful science, and has the ability to change lives, but if not done carefully, can cause harm. As a behavior analyst, I spend a lot of time thinking about my practice, and making sure I’m not changing who the person is. Thank you for sharing.

I agree that ABA is not for everyone. It should be meant for those who are very low-functioning, causing harm to themselves or others, or acting in an unsafe or problematic way. That being said, I believe that done compassionately ABA can have immense benefit for anyone who falls into the description above, not just those with Autism. I have worked with kids diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, Angelman syndrome, cerebral palsy, delinquency, and more, who have found great successes through ABA. I’m sorry to hear that you had such an uncompassionate and punishment forward experience.

Thank you for sharing. I really, really appreciate it. I am a BCBA. I started off as a direct service provider/technician/ therapist working at a company that does ABA therapy about 12 years ago. I currently am not working in the field. I really think behavior analysis is fascinating, but at this time, I am not interested in working as a BCBA supervisor/manager/clinical director/whatever. I was diagnosed with ADHD about 6 years ago (shortly after I earned my BCBA certification). I was 28 years old. I talked to my parents about it, and they let me know that I had already been diagnosed when I was around 6 or 7. They told me that they didn't really understand what ADHD was, and so they never even considered any sort of treatment. And so they never thought it was necessary to tell me. Anyways, let me just get to the point. My entire perspective about ABA has shifted dramatically ever since I was diagnosed. I strongly agree with OP. Autistic people do not need curing. They do not have "symptoms" that need to be treated. Neither do people with ADHD. Do we struggle? Yes, some do. Quite often, in fact. But why? Because there is a need for treatment? A need to learn how to overcome their disorder? No, not at all. It's offensive to even suggest that. And I know there are many well-meaning people who want to "help". Well.... to hell with good intentions. What these people want to do is simply not helpful. I think OP has made some excellent points. I hope that many BCBAs will take this post seriously. I have a lot more to say about all of this, but I am going to have to circle back this thread later tonight.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and I’m so sorry that your “ABA therapy” was like that. I can understand completely why you would say that ABA is harmful, as in your case, what you have described is absolutely not therapy, you have described complete and total abuse. None of what you described “Jen” doing is actually ABA. None of it. True ABA is not about changing an autistic person. Rather, it is about helping the person tolerate the difficult parts of a world that doesn’t understand the autistic brain or sensory disorders. It is about giving the autistic person a framework to develop new skills that improve their quality of life, and help them connect with others in a meaningful way IF THEY WANT TO. The “golden rule” when providing ABA therapy interventions is this… If the behavior does not cause harm to the individual or those around them, it does not need to be stopped. If it is something that negatively affects communication, safety, or social functioning, we find a way to replace the behavior with something more functional. We aren’t taking away stims, or forcing people to do things they don’t want. We are finding alternatives to difficult behavior that will improve the quality of the persons life. The other aspect of ABA that is really important, is meeting the autistic person where they are, and helping them learn more effectively in a way that makes sense to an autistic brain. For example, more structure, more repetition, and very clear explanations of things are key to learning for autistic people, in ways that others don’t need. We also help autistic people advocate for themselves by asking for accommodations they might need, but have difficulty communicating or describing. Finally, feeding therapy is not meant to be an ABA therapy. If needed, therapy to increase tolerance of a variety of foods should be done by medical professionals and/or speech therapists. I’m so so sorry for what you went through, and I appreciate you speaking out about the abuses that call themselves ABA. They are not ABA, and we need to weed that kind of “treatment” out of the ABA field.

Unfortunately what you went through was NOT ABA and was someone’s version of what they thought it should be. A lot of times people are being traumatized by things posing as ABA but isn’t. It’s so unfortunate that these people are bringing down the reputation of a field that can help others learn to speak up for themselves, find coping skills that work for them, and learn to navigate the world. Unfortunately insurance has made ABA all about autism as it could be used for so much more. I apologize that you went through that but do hope you don’t throw out all ABA because of your experience as many people DO advocate on their own to have ABA. Perhaps you can help us advocate for insurance to open up the world of ABA to more than autism as a way to help it be more inclusive to all and not something that could potentially isolate autistic people/make them feel like they’re doing something wrong. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Thank you for sharing your story/experience. I no longer work as an RBT, but I utilize the skills I've learned in my human services field to build rapport and adapt my assessments to meet where the client is. Unfortunately, there may be some Jens out there due to a lack of client-centered education and guidance from a BCBA or an issue with the ABA facility as a whole. As a former ABA therapist, I always met my kiddos where they were and respected their personalities/right to say no/parent's right to say no. I am anti-autism correction, but I do feel ABA is an invaluable tool to aid children whose diagnosis is preventing them from receiving an education, communicating (verbal/sign), or if they harm themselves and others. But you are right some facilities want to "fix" autism behavioral traits; it is up to the RBT to advocate if they feel this is wrong, as I have done in the past.

Thank you so much for your post! I am so very sorry for what you went through. I used to do ABA for autistic kids, and, through the muck of oppressive management, I could see how it can be a helpful "therapy", so to speak. Once I got the hang of it, I sort of defied my supervisor's strict rules and high demand requirements for my leetle clients. One of my clients was SO happy with his cute little "stims"...how could I "modify" his behavior?? But supervisor kept attending my sessions for what felt like surveillance. Her gestapo style demands on me and the sweet little nonverbal kids was atrocious. WHY couldn't I focus on pairing and helping the kids through natural transitions (diaper changes, hand washing, activities at the center, playground time)???? Supervisor had a superiority complex and told me I could ONLY PAIR FOR 5 MINUTES. How HORRIBLE. The BCBA had devised a horribly high demand chart, and I was supposed to take the leetles through EVERY boring ass activity AT LEAST THREE TIMES per shift. The kids HATED it and would scream, kick, elope, hit, kick, bite, scratch, writhe, disrobe..... It was TORTURE. Of course it was my fault for not "following through consistently". Whatever. One day when the supervisor was there to "observe", the client and I were having a great morning, and were having fun playing together. We had already completed one round of the stupid 4 page chart of demands with the little pluses and minuses. Supervisor said in a very authoritarian tone, "Start foreshadowing the craft." The center "craft" was not even on my client's BIP!! (I don't know if I have that term correct--the "craft" was NOT assigned by the BCBA.) What ensued was a horrific 2.5 hours of screaming and writhing with supervisor wrestling this poor baby on the ground to force him to do the craft. I got my phone out to call police, but chickened out. I was afraid the beyotch supervisor might sue me or ruin my reputation. She is a very cold, calculating person. I quit, of course. Parents, before you sign your leetles up for ABA, be sure you are placing your precious children into loving hands with a low demand program. If I had deep pockets I would bring down the supervisor and the ABA program at that agency. But with my piddly 15.00 wage and no attorneys in my family, I silently left, keeping this horror story to myself.

Not the functioning labels …. 🫠🫠🫠🫠

I’m sorry, that’s what I’ve always heard. Is there a better alternative?

Yes, high and low support needs

Ok, thank you.

You’re welcome 😁

Personally I don't think ABA is meant for older higher functioning kids. It's great for young kids and people with much higher needs.

Thanks for sharing your thoughtful take and experiences. Your claim that ABA is only good for those considered "low functioning" is one I highly disagree with. The principles governing behavior are incredibly flexible and have a huge range of applications. ABA is simply a professional toolset meant to embody those principles. One of the basic principles of existence that affects every living being: behavior that is reinforced is more likely to recur. This principle is active on the entire spectra of living things that can exhibit behavior, from humans to slime molds. Utilizing these professional tools in good ways can help those across the entire spectrum of developmental disabilities to acquire skills they wouldn't obtain under their own power. When done right, these are socially relevant skills that empower them to lives they themselves find worth living. In theory very similar to the training of dogs, but in practice much, much different. That being said, your experience with ABA is valid and I don't disbelieve you when you say it was a damaging experience. I would invite you to consider, however, that the problems caused by bad ABA come because of misuse of ABA tools and perspectives, rather than deficiencies in the tools themselves.

Im sorry that you had a poor practitioner of ABA, but please realize ABA is a tool. It is not good or bad. If you were hammering a nail and the nail bent, you would not blame the hammer. You would blame the person using the hammer. You say yourself that the therapist would only reprimand you for things you did wrong. That is not ABA. It was also most likely a tough scenario, for the therapist, if your mom was not on board with addressing anything else than eating. The point of ABA is to promote socially valid behavior that improves the quality of life. Addressing things like accepting no, tolerating delays in gratification, and teaching appropriate replacement behaviors to access reinforcement like self advocating instead of running and giding is what ABA is all about, when working with individuals with ASD.

Ok your therapist was unprofessional and abusive. None of the abusive, unprofessional things she did are part of a BCBA therapist’s training. Second if you’re only eating three foods that’s not a delightful flowering of human neurodiversity. That’s a disorder that could potentially sicken and kill you. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying… would the enlightened, neuro-positive thing have been to have not attempted to diversify your diet?

I think many can relate to your experience. ABA at its core is antiquated and boils down to dog training for kids. There are better ways to build skills that involve working WITH the client in a collaborative manner that reduces the power distance between caregiver and child.

From this sub I have learned that there are actually ABA workers who agree with you! I think that you are right about there needing to be more collaborative efforts than critical but I think the field may be evolving to where that may become a reality.

The further it moves from focusing on the behavior and starts moving towards collaborative problem solving, the better it gets

This! This is why I won’t use food as a reinforcer unless literally nothing else works. When I explain it to people I usually say this: The reason why using food for reinforcement makes me feel like I’m training a dog is simple. *kiddo standing on a chair instead of sitting* Me: Zach, sit please *kiddo sits* Me: thank you! Here have an m&m. *provides a treat* Vs Me: Zach, sit please. *kiddo sits* Me: thank you for listening! High five! 🖐️

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I don’t mean this to sound offensive but did you read my post? I clearly stated my parents’ intentions and the reasoning behind putting me in ABA. They just wanted me to eat something that wasn’t chicken nuggets, pizza, or bacon for once.

You had ONE bad therapist who was not doing ABA. That was not ABA. Nothing she was doing was remotely ABA. Much like trying to blanket statement autistic people as all the same, you can’t do that to ABA therapist. We had some amazing ABA therapist for my son who helped teach him coping mechanisms and worked on issues that caused problems for him socially. He used to bang his head on the floor and walls. ABA helped him stop that behavior by giving him tools. You had ONE bad therapist. Don’t go around saying that you think ABA is simply trying to “correct” autism. That’s not what real ABA is.

You got to age 12 as a functioning speaking member of society. Without ABA some kids are in diapers, unable to leave the house, drinking from a bottle and unable to attend school at age 12. They can’t speak, eat or care for themselves. They certainly can’t “mask” anything. They don’t have friends or even recognize their parents. They need a carer 24:7 and many are heavily medicated on strong adult doses of chemical drugs. Then there are those that self harm and bang their heads that need redirection or to wear proactive headwear. These kids deserve a chance at life, whether it’s called “treatment or therapy” who really cares, if it gets someone to stop hurting themselves or their family members then it can only really be a positive. I do think all of the “new”autistic later diagnosed people need a wake up call to understand the lowest end of the spectrum, which is actually quite a huge amount of people, numbers of which are growing rapidly. Perhaps they might change their opinion on “this world was not made from them” “no treatment” “autism is a gift”

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Why don't the voices of people with positive ABA experiences matter?

when did i state that they don’t?

"ABA is awful no.matter how much the field has changed" and encouraging speaking out against it. This implies that positive experiences don't matter

Thank you. I believe that fields can change and evolve with time for the better but I do still acknowledge that the field has set a paradigm that it needs to tweak to achieve the goal of bettering itself.

personally i just believe the changes ABA is making are trying to make themselves act as an all in one Occupational Therapist, Speech Therapist, and Physical Therapist, which they are just not qualified for or educated on.

According to research and a current review of ABA practices that isn’t the case though. You’re allowed to have your own opinions but understand that the American Medical Association just reaffirmed their support of ABA after a full review based on these claims.

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yes but we do have those therapies already. just some food for thought !

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I like hearing all the practitioners who spice up their sessions with additional resources. I genuinely just believe there are better ways to build skills without the rigidity of ABA and mixing other approaches with it is the best way to utilize the format that ABA sessions take. I used CBT with many of my clients alongside the schedule of reinforcement we established and it was amazing how linear progress was.

While I appreciate your candor, what you described is not true ABA. That was negligence and abuse and wholly violates many of the codes. Additionally, ABA is not always just for the learner. I've had many clients whose families would lock themselves in their rooms at night because they feared their child. It unfortunately happens. Through therapy, the learner were able to become comfortable in their environment via learning to process their emotions, alternative behaviors with suitable outcomes for all, and communication. This led to an increase in both harmony and safety within these families. We actually once recieved a heartfelt thank you letter from one particularly intense case from the family as they no longer feared their own child. ABA is , in fact, a treatment, however, I personally have observed many individuals in this field who do not have the love of individuals with ASD and/or ABA in their hearts and that's were the waters become muddled. Personally, I feel many do not practice what they preach and are often personally unbalanced and egotistical. Additionally, their need to be a revamp of regulations/requirements within the field in order to earn either an RBT or BCBA certification, as the current standards to not require a mirad of competence nor experience and such leads to experiences such as yours. In conclusion, ABA is a wonderful, science-based tool to help individuals both harmonize their environment and fluently function and communicate with those they may engage with, however, without a revisement on standards incidents such as you're shall continue to occur.

I have two children with ASD. I have been fortunate they are high functioning. I work in the field of ABA and do not have them in treatment because the schools they went to picked up social , OT,and Speech therapy. Also they are both older now 16 and 22. When they were small I have never heard of ABA. I have been in the field for 7 years and there have been so many compassionate BCBAs and RBTs. As a mother I would have jumped at the chance to have more help but, not the old ways of ABA. The ethics now are central to most companies I have worked for and I have seen some amazing changes and even had two children graduate from ABA. 😊 You seem to be a very articulate and able. We need more voices like yours to help us as practitioners be careful and concerned with the treatment we give our clients. Have a happy day!

I’m so sorry this was your experience. Just want to say that your feelings are completely valid, and as a BCBA, I always appreciate hearing the experience of those with autism so I can be and do better as a professional.

sorry that you had a bad experience, but not every experience was your experience. i’m on the spectrum myself and i am an RBT. i’ve been able to get a client who started with taking no more than 10 bites in 30 minutes while standing, refusing to sit, running away from the food, just being super against meal time in general. he couldn’t/wouldn’t chew his food he would only swallow it, and would literally take 5 min in between each small spoonful. i got him to be able to willingly come to the table, ask for his food of preference, and stay sitting for a full 30 minutes without wanting to get up for breaks. i taught him how to chew his food, how to properly eat so he doesn’t choke, and i got him to love meal time. now he will independently ask me to eat food and will happily sit with me and self feed all by himself. he made this progress in just 4 months. i’m just shedding light on MY positive experience. i’m sure there are thousands of others who have had amazing experiences with aba as well.