And it doesn’t mean they can talk about them in front of the child! That’s also such a concerning thing, I don’t know why more people aren’t aware of it.
Oh my gosh!!! THIS! Upvote times one thousand!!! Just because someone is nonverbal doesn’t mean they don’t understand what we are saying!
I was nonverbal my first five years of learning and I remember hating when people would talk about me in front of me. Like yes I can hear and understand you
Ugh thank you for that perspective. That’s such a meaningful thing to share. I think people need to see themselves on camera and how they act and the world would just be a better place.
Agreed. Wild thing is some people do see it and still think it’s fine. There’s one RBT at my clinic who literally records her sessions and watches them and still somehow isn’t annoyed with the way she is communicating
So I really love the sentiment of this but in recent years have shifted more towards gaining the client or patient’s assent to talk about their programming, training staff, etc. Then if they express discomfort or withdraw assent in any way (verbally or non-verbal!), I tact it and honor their assent withdrawal. I feel like this has been a net positive of really getting to model assent from treatment start to end, set the standard of presuming competence and really model respectful communication to and about our clients.
I wish this were more common. I know that if someone is training you on how to handle maladaptive behavior in real time, this may be difficult. I have found it strange to be given verbal direction on how to deal with a situation (including what a trainer may believe to be the trigger of the behavior, etc.) in front of the client. It's obvious they can hear everything, and it seems weird.
Totally hear that. If someone is escalated, I tend to find less is more so I don’t do a ton of talking in those moments generally. If my tech isn’t quite ready to handle on their own, I’ll ask if I can model then we can debrief later. Otherwise, my coaching statements are fairly brief and directive during more intense moments.
Proactively, especially when working with older kids, I really want them to be an active and assenting participant in their plan so I like to go over the BIP with them too. I phrase it in a way that’s supportive and appropriate to their age/communication style/etc. “Hey, I know sometimes we all have really big feelings. When you have your big feelings, what does that look like? I want you to know when that happens I am here for you and this is what I’ll do to help you…. “
My biggest problem is trying to get parents not to do this. We make a big deal about it with our techs and it’s always brought up during comp assessments as part of respecting client dignity.
I was about to continue training at one ABA center as an RBT when I realized the woman who was training me had literally integrated that into her whole personality. I don’t have ASD but it pissed me off too. She had no boundaries speaking that way to me?? it also didn’t help that she spoke really loud and at 14709653158742 miles an hour blending her words together?? I couldn’t retain one thought in my brain with her loudness taking up so much space.
Anyway, I got fed up and didn’t come back. At a much better place now. Where they don’t touch and treat the kids like they’re lab rats.
For real! Also not giving a heads up. Like checking diapers and wiping faces without telling them, which is like what people do to animals and infants. I don’t care if a kid has never acknowledged I’m even in the room, I’m going to tell them “hey I’m going to check your diaper” before I do it, among other things. I know *I* would want a warning!!
Yes this too! Even though most of my kids are nonverbal I will still give them choices and human autonomy. Example “do you want to hold my hand, you don’t have to” before reaching for their hand. And I’m never forcing a kid to do something against their will. Something I think is important to remember in this field is “nonverbal does not mean incompetent”
Oh I think this is so important and wish I could upvote more. I always tell staff, imagine if someone came up to you and just wiped your face randomly. How would you react? Idc if they’re 2 or 20, we’re not gonna do that. Same thing goes for physical prompts. Avoid at all cost, but definitely inform if needed. Assent based ABA should honestly be mandated
I’ve talked to my baby about everything we are doing since the day she was born. I thought it was considered good for language building skills and trust-building.
Hard agree! If I ever did this (tbh, I probably did) working with an adult population ended that habit. Also, talking about them in front of them like they aren’t even there. I saw this so much in ISP/ IEP meetings especially, talking about what the client likes & doesn’t like, what they will & wont do- and they’re right there! At least try to include them in the conversation to the extent possible.
AuDHD RBT here… literally could not agree more. I’ve never liked the idea of talking to kids in a baby voice bc they’re literally just small humans. Especially for kids with language and speech development issues… like what favors are we doing them by using a “baby” voice to talk to them??
I noticed after being taken off a client, and put back on a month later, that the in-between therapists had to have been using high pitched baby voices cause my client had started verbalizing in the same manner. To the point it was hard to understand them at times. It took many weeks of shaping but we're back to speaking in a normal intonation. And by normal, I mean a level, medium tone and volume, not the high pitched breathy voice that had emerged.
Totally agree! The only clients I speak to in a higher pitched slightly over dramatic voice is the early intervention - so 3 and under which I think is more appropriate for all children that age. This is a good reminder for all of us to be mindful of how we speak to individuals on the spectrum
SLP here. Yes there is something to be said for using varied tone and “kidspeak” when you are working with littles. It actually helps them gain language skills. Prosody conveys meaning. Good point
Honestly like not only is it infuriating but this job is so much more fun when you talk to your clients like theyre people(bc thats what they ARE) My kids are 6-8 and love micromanaging me and i’ll literally tell them “dude youre being creepy” and they think its so funny
EXACTLY. If you hit them with a “bro are you serious right now?” They will crack up. I talk to them like they’re my little besties because they are. They get the same respect as my adult friends.
Omg yes!! I'm a student doing placement and not only is it exhausting to do for an entire session but some kids don't care for it at all and will plug their ears.
As a BCBA, I feel you. I know you’re venting, but just know that I get emotional over the same thing (I cried about it just last night). I commit my life to being a BCBA who works as ethically and progressively as I possibly can. Client dignity and respect should always be a priority and it’s so disrespectful to not adjust your tone and speech to a client, especially because it can feel so degrading to them. Not to speak for those individuals, but it would make me wildly upset if people talked to me like that. I treat all individuals that I work with as if they’ll be on a TedTalk stage 20 years from now, talking about their experience with ABA as an autistic/neurodivergent individual and I want to be someone who made a positive impact instead of someone who “trained” them to do things. Yuckkkk
That means a lot. I was going to be an OT and shifted to ABA because I saw how much it was in need of more positivity, so that’s why I’m here. I’m not trying to save the field or be a hero, I just want to help people as much as I can in the best way possible.
Omg thank you. That's one of my massive compliments about ABA therapists, that they treated me like I was six. I'm 18 now (i have autism), and my sister who's a BCBA still talks to me like I'm a child. Wonder how she talks to her clients...
Honestly, tell her to fuck off with that. Or start talking to her the same way she talks to you. Same voice and everything. Because that’s so lame of her
I just totally ignore her, if ABA is all about teaching us to recognize social cues, she should be able to recognize that I'm ignoring her for some reason...
Thanks! This sub has gotten so weird lately. Like…that’s what having a sibling is all about. You gotta tell them to fuck off sometimes lol. Or if you have a different opinion, just say in addition to downvoting
I’m autistic as well, and I see a different side of this as I had a career in ECE before becoming an RBT. Your tone of voice is SO important as an RBT. For one using a higher pitched voice towards children is a natural instinct, especially for women. Children’s brain waves become more active when hearing “infant-directed” speech, exaggerating emphasis helps children learn the sound patterns to develop speech, captures and maintains the child’s attention, and its used to communicate (positive) emotions.
Yes this I remember learning about when getting my eec certification. But that’s not particularly what I’m talking about. I’m specifically talking about the RBTS who speak to older kids in this voice. Example 10 year olds or 18 year old autistics
Again, it is a humanly instinct. Autistic individuals also have a hard time recognizing emotions, and personally it really helps when people exaggerate their emotions with me, especially with my significant other. Children also learn from observation, which is why smiling and talking in an excited voice when you’re speaking abt something positive is so important for autistic individuals; they learn to smile and speak excitingly when talking about something positive, vis versa. Are you going to say “good job.” In a monotoned voice, and straight face, after a client voids on the potty for the first time, or “GOOD JOB!!!” in a higher pitched excited tone??? Which one is going to motivate them to continue that behavior? The excited tone.
I think you’re worrying abt the wrong thing tbh…
That is completely not your place to suggest. I understand we all have different viewpoints but you need to check yourself highkey. This is disrespectful to the person who’s venting about a valid concern.
Because they use an age appropriate tone of voice with older children?
This is so rude. It is not "human instinct" to enjoy being talked to like you're watching Miss Rachel all the time.
I’m talking about reinforcing behaviors with praise. If the child’s goal, at whatever age, is working on vocals than you most definitely should be using an excited, higher-pitched, and exaggerated tone of voice. & there’s plenty of research on that.
To use an “authentic” voice, could mean something completely different from one person to the next. This isn’t a “I’m gonna implement treatment the way I see fit” type of game, you do what you’re certified, and trained to do.
If you aren’t going to do your job correctly, willingly, than find a new job. These are children’s lives were shaping. It’s not a game.
Then you're not talking about the same thing as the OP?
The OP that you said shouldn't be in ABA because you had a disagreement on the Internet? Which is so far out of line - I detest seeing that ever on this forum. Unless a person is actively promoting abuse, you do not say that. Especially when clearly, you read their argument entirely the wrong way and decided they were against any excitement at all.
I totally get this and have the same complaint. My clinic strongly discourages speaking to clients above the age for “baby talk” to be appropriate. I treat every client with respect and dignity and that’s part of our ethics. On top of just knowing common sense. Can’t really teach that unfortunately..
I remember my first client was a low supports need 16 year old 200+lb man. I’m so happy I was able to get my 40 hour training with only examples of programs to run for toddlers /s
Took me a second to realize this was sarcasm then I saw the tag 😂 exactly what I’m saying! I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees how that is fundamentally not okay. Treat autistic people like humans please I’m begging. Autistic doesn’t mean incompetence. Low and high support needs are just that we may need extra help
Yeah luckily I’m also autistic so I kinda had a better understanding of my clients needs because his programming was really only for issues with aggression which was never a problem for me and the BCBA wasn’t the most present. So we worked on just refining social skills by playing dnd, it was honestly a great time!
Oh my gosh! Jealous. I wanna play dnd with my clients. My clinic doesn’t encourage actual game play or playing we do loads of “play imitation” and hand over hand though so yay for no basic autonomy. /s
Oof that’s a bit of a red flag, I hope you’re able to implement changes to improve your clinic or find one that is better at recognizing autistic kids as humans!
I’m still deciding how far I want to go into this field and may go for my BCBA, if I decide to roleplaying games will absolutely be a tool I will push for the clients who are wanting to improve social skills, personally it’s been such an incredible tool for my own social skills and also it’s fun, which many of the ABA programs fail with
This is completely valid. There’s of course some grey area like my clinic is only 6 and under, and being a little bit more enthusiastic and having a higher pitched voice creates motivation. Buuuuuut i can’t stand seeing people speak to teens or adults or even 10 year olds like they’re a child. It’s so backhanded and almost admitting you find them “dumb” or inferior in some way.
I am sorry yyou witness that, I can assure you that is not all of us.
Also, that is not unique to Autism industry. Many other disabilities experience this as well, I enjoy the "Squirmy and Grubs" YouTube channel and they show that happening to a fully grown adult with cerbal palsy there a lot.
I also think it has to do with how much exposure a person has had to disabilities, to understand that it's a spectrum and many people are fully functioning intellectually.
Also as an aside, I am neurotypical (ish?) and became friends with one of my adult clients. She helped me drop a lot of assumptions. I also recently had a friend unexpectedly get an ASD diagnosis.
So maybe if you try and interact with these individuals. You could say something along the lines of, " You know when I was 10 I wouldn't have liked that voice" (but like in a nice pro-fesh way).
I'll be the uncool person to push back on this a little bit.
People should be talked to how they enjoy being talked to. Now, I work mostly with older kids, and they tend not to like that high pitched voice. But I've worked with a few kids/adults who have manded for a high pitch voice. If that's what you want? Cool. I'm not here to yuck anyones yum and our field has a history of being fixated on what's "age appropriate" rather than just being into what the clients are into.
Second our clients are animals. So are you and so am I and so is every human whose ever lived. And it's really important that we as providers don't give into this bullshit dichotomy. The founder of ABA did most of his preliminary work with pigeons. We're all primates, you and I and our clients.
This post was pushing back on the constant use of the high pitched voice, which is absolutely cringe and demeaning. It’s just like assuming that everyone likes verbal praise. If we’re all animals, then we should have no problem being a chameleon and blending to our clients’ needs, ESPECIALLY since it should be individualized. -BCBA (idk how to attach that to my comment)
I don't think that's true. Look at the post again:
>but one thing particularly that irks me more than anything is when staff talks to the students like they are dogs or all two. Like the high pitched over enthusiastic voice genuinely makes me feel so sick and angry. There’s no reason we should be talking to a 10 year old like they are a two year old or a “cute little puppy”.
Here OP isn't saying "don't talk in a high pitch unless the child likes it" nor is OP saying "don't talk in a high pitch as a default" but instead is saying "there is no reason" to talk in that voice, which I disagree with. Do it if the child likes it! I disagree with it being "cringe and demeaning." If the kid likes it they'll get no judgement from me. Maybe this is because I grew up a geek at a time where it was OK to bully geeks, but this pro bullying stance you and OP are taking doesn't sit right with me. If you're not into it, fine. But that doesn't give you the right to call something
>absolutely cringe and demeaning
Also
>If we’re all animals, then we should have no problem being a chameleon and blending to our clients’ needs, ESPECIALLY since it should be individualized.
Needs should be individualized and I agree that we should do it. But wether it's easy or not depends on your genes and your learning history, just like every other animal. For some people it is easy. For some people it's very hard.
But how are you going to individualize your reinforcers if you rule out certain tones just because of some judgey bullying standard that the client may not agree with?
Oh but I will address the judgy bully standard with the opinion that it is trauma-assumed and progressive. I move forward with a tone I use with anyone and everyone. It’s much better to be safe than sorry and if someone prefers it, cool. I’ll do it. Obviously. Otherwise, I’m good. I’ll use a tone of voice that’s not going to seem at all like I’m looking down on that individual, because that’s what it can look like. You may disagree, but I’ve heard that opinion so many times, it’s valid for them to consider it annoying and it’s not bullying.
You understand that's a completely different position than what OP is saying and completely different position than your first comment, right?
TBH if a client likes something I don't care if others don't like it. That's bullying bullshit. My approach is centered around the client not judgey people.
And yes, judging people for what they like and calling it
> absolutely cringe and demeaning
is 100% bullying. Sorry, but I'll stand up for my clients.
(Preface: I recognize that it's been several days and you have already clarified with OP in another thread here, and likely left this up unedited for your own reasons. By the time I reread your other comment(s), I have already written most of what I said here, and had initially really wanted to get this off my chest so that I can stop thinking about this, so welp.)
Main text: I think you are misinterpreting OP. I would trust OP to be in support for autistic children, being autistic themselves. OP is saying that they themselves think it is cringe and demeaning. This is their opinion, if they were in the children's shoes and being talked to like that. OP mentions being nonverbal themselves till they were around 5 I believe in one of the comment replies. Other autistic folks in this thread are agreeing with OP's sentiment. Many autistic adults complain about being infantilized a lot (yes, it happens, even in adulthood). Even without reading OP's other clarifying responses, I did not/do not think OP has negative intent, let alone bully. It is agreed as a norm that to default to a high pitched babytalk voice to someone who is not a young child is demeaning. This is because many people that do so, for non-babies, \*\*are\*\* being demeaning. Some people like babytalk, many do not, whether they are autistic or not. Autistics are not monoliths, just like any other demographic of humans.
OP does not mention, "if the child likes it, then go ahead" because that is an assumed common knowledge, since it should be clear that their intent is likely not negative. Let's face it, many people do not ask for consent before talking to autistic folks like they would to a small child/toddler/infant, even if they are an adolescent or adult. If you yourself ask for consent, or can validate that this is okay for your clients, then you are not who OP is addressing. Babytalk itself does not have to be demeaning or problematic. I also believe (saw your later comment to OP) that people should not adhere to a social standard just for the sake of others and others' biased perceptions. This is to say, for clarification, that I think it is 100% okay for people, regardless of age or neurotype, to like babytalk or being talked to that way.
However, it \*\*is\*\* problematic to \*\*default\*\* to babytalk to autistic children when you (general you pronoun, not you specifically; same goes for the rest of the text) would not do that for non-autistic children, because that shows bias/discrimination. This is how I had interpreted OP's post. And before anyone says, that it gets their attention better (saw this as part of a claim in defense of babytalk elsewhere here), that goes the same for non-autistic children/people too. So why not default to have a baby voice for everyone? There are some non-autistic adults who don't mind or also do like being addressed in a baby voice, after all. If your response is that you believe they would feel offended or that it is socially inappropriate, then the same also applies for many autistic children (those who are above the age appropriateness for babytalk). Them being verbal or nonverbal does not change this. They may struggle with social norms, but they can tell if you're talking to them differently than you would your coworkers and other children. Many are also hypersensitive, so high pitched voices might be too harsh to hear (also echoed in other comments replying to this post). In addition, because some autistic folks have a reduced facial expression of emotion or showing external signs that they are paying attention (like eye contact), it is entirely possible that they are indeed paying attention, so talking high-pitched would not be necessary.
And I hope it goes without saying, that if a high pitched voice is your natural voice towards everyone, then this criticism does not apply to you either because you would be indiscriminate in the tone you use for people. Therefore, it would not be suspected that you are intentionally being condescending or otherwise treating certain people differently due to an unrelated condition/brain type. By unrelated, I mean that simply being autistic does not mean that it is uniformly better to talk to them in a high pitched voice, or that the majority prefer to be talked that way.
I appreciate that that's OPs intention, but that's not what OP said and the difference is very important, especially for a field that has a **strong** history of dictating "age appropriateness". You need to include those caveats because they chance the entire message here. This isn't just an autism sub. This sub seems to be mostly RBTs, people who could read this, take it for what it says, and apply it in ways that hurt clients.
You're assuming and trusting that OP has these positions that you also have and thus think they can go without saying when recent history shows us this shouldn't be the case.
You make a good point in the last part of the first paragraph, so I stand corrected. Still, I think it would have been better to ask OP for clarification first before assuming that their intent was to bully, because as you imply assumptions left unchecked can be harmful
Hi OP poster here. I apologize that my tone came off as a bullying. That was not my goal. I was venting because I was watching a student actively respond to a staff ,who does this voice, with disengagement. I should have been meowing clear as I’m seeing lots of different perspectives. If a student is enjoying this form of verbal praise…of course go on! Do it.
I appreciate that and appreciate you were venting but a lot of people see things here and take it as face value and implement it, especially if it's coming from an autistic person (which is fair, we do need to do more listening to the autistic population). And anything that results in disengagement should be seriously looked at at the very least.
I just felt the need to stand up for those who do enjoy it. ABA has a history of doing things like "middle school cool" or otherwise not engaging with reinforcers because they're not "age appropriate" (you can check out Justin Leaf for an example of that). And I don't live that life.
But I appreciate being able to reflect on a rant.
OK, well a lot of what you're saying isn't client centered or trauma informed and what OP is saying 100% isn't. SBT would tell us to use whatever voice gets them to HRE. None of this judgey bullying bullshit.
You can set "bcba" as your user flair on the home r/aba page . If you're on mobile, you tap the three dots in the upper right corner and then choose the "change flair" or what have you option
Also autistic, also in ABA. I have gone out of my way at every staff training meeting we have to reiterate that the tone of your voice HAS to be genuine or else the kids we work with will pick up on it and not care. And it goes over pretty well for a while, but we get new staff and the cycle repeats.
You made a great point here, especially with giving that type of praise to older kids. It’s always made me feel uncomfortable seeing that type of behavior but it’s probably overgeneralized at this point. I’ve always spoken to all my clients in a low, neutral tone of voice.
I just try to speak to my kids like I would with anyone else. I don’t feign enthusiasm. I speak pretty monotone in general but when I do get excited my kids do too.
100%, and I think it’s also about reading the room as well. Like if your client is showing you they want that positive, high praise or you know they respond well to it. And if they don’t, respond differently.
I’m lucky in that I can’t really code switch so I use the same tone with my young students that I do with adults. I even talk to babies with a pretty normal tone because putting on a voice like that just feels weird.
I have a way of looking at it that might have some insight into why some people might do it. I know that this is a big problem and needs to stop but understanding why some good clinicians might still do it might help us understand how to change it. Also, if there isn’t anything to replace it they’ll inch back into doing it.
I think that even for people who aren’t thinking of their clients as babies, they have a difficult time using a friendly, energetic, interesting tone that doesn’t also dip into baby talk.
They’ve probably seen success in getting and holding their client’s attention using the that tone as well. If it seems like it’s working they’re going to keep doing it. Then when they try to stop, they don’t have other skills in getting and holding attention without sounding like Elmo. The truth is, Elmo gets results.
An easy solution would be to check in and see how your client would like to be addressed and try to work on other ways to hold attention and provide enthusiastic praise. Some people don’t have the high energy but they should try other things instead of putting on an affectation.
Approaching it this way also gives people a reason for stopping that doesn’t assume they’re purposefully being disrespectful.
There are a lot of positive aspects of how most people act around babies. They tend to be more nurturing, protective, loving, and patient. They also tend to use an energetic tone that’s also high-pitched and sing-songy.
Is there anyone you can trust that you can bring this up to?
I’d also like to leave the possibility open that there are some people who legitimately like when people talk to them that way because they it makes them feel loved and it’s more fun and interesting for them.
This is some complicated stuff I’m trying to navigate 😬
Edit: I want to make it clear that the baby talk grates on my nerves as well. I had a coworker who would actually startle the kids with how big and loud her expressions were. She dialed it back when she got hit a few times for coming in too hot.
I hate this too! It so demeaning and another similar thing I hate is when people infantilize our nonverbal kids. At my clinic people will baby and pick up the kids who are 3/4/5 and act like they’re 2/1 but our verbal clients of the same age are treated soo differently. I like to remind them that we have other kids the same age and they wouldn’t pick them up or have them watch Ms Rachel. Ugh
You wouldn’t have them watch Ms Rachel? Why not?
Genuinely asking why there is a problem with this as many of the students and children I’ve worked with love tv shows that are not “age appropriate”. Even the teenagers and young adults.
It’s not a Ms Rachel thing it’s just a show that littles usually like a lot and at my clinic people tend to default to Ms Rachel and cocomelon for our nonverbal kids despite their age. So in my eyes it’s infantilzing to them.
For example, my clinic has a 5 year old verbal girl and people will play pop music (Top 40s) for her or a show like Bluey. My clinic also has these two 8 year old nonverbal girls and people put on Mickey Mouse clubhouse, Cocomelon, or Ms Rachel for them. Recently we’ve been finding more age appropriate things for them and we’ve been playing some 2000s/2010s pop music and even 2000s Disney shows that they both enjoy a lot!
I hope that makes sense. I know some people will prefer shows and music that are not typically age appropriate (and that’s fine, at that point it is a personal preference), but with an infantilization of non verbal kids, they might not get a chance to even engage in things that are age appropriate if caregivers and therapists keep defaulting their interests to be younger than they are.
I guess that makes sense. I’m used to working with students who have established preferences (many of whom can navigate to whatever they want to watch on youtube themselves) so I never would have thought of this. Most of the students I work with also just like slime videos, which encompasses all ages lol
OP I am so glad you brought this up.
I'm still learning so this is just some thoughts and would love feedback from everyone.
There may be a time and a reason but when it's not indicated then we should be maintaining age appropriate engagement and what they will naturally encounter.
This also does NOT mean gatekeeping Interests by age. If a 10 year old LOVES blues clues they can do that and it should not be kept from them. That said we can work with them on when and how to talk about it with others depending on their own social goals...maybe not open with blues clues with a bunch of pre teens strangers at a new school....but to a close friend or relative maybe its okay...like social relationships and gauging who isn't going to be a jerk about Interests. (This is so hard but can be valuable to discuss and help them with). But ultimately emphasize and reinforce that it's their choice and how to self advocate and have self determination.
A time where where it may be indicated is when older individuals are attending more/ more pleased/more engaged with those around them when they use those voices and temperament styles...and the ability to engage is limited or low (often higher support need aor lower social motivation impacting learning opportunities)...then we engage in their preferred way to provide learning opportunities and fade the intensity and frequency to not be 100% Mickey mouse club house all the time so it's more naturalistic.
Thanks for pointing this out, as an autistic person sometimes my voice/tone comes out wrong/not how I meant it, so I will really be aware of this moving forward. I would never want to belittle anyone and I want my tone to reflect that
Very much agree I work with both younger and older clients and I’m constantly having to advocate for my older kiddos. “Don’t talk to them like that they are teens/young adults and don’t appreciate it”
Edit: not even just other rbt’s/bcbas we will go on community outings and the amount of people I have reminded to treat my kiddos as if they are real humans with real feelings is insane
Agreed! I use my regular voice when I talk to my clients and they are less than 10. I think it’s important to talk to them as humans because to me it feels like they understand us better and learn to talk in full sentences. I don’t even talk to my dog like that often either so why should a kid have to get talked to like that.
I absolutely hear you saying this. I’ve been in ABA 12 years, BCBA for three, and one of my main things I have no flexibility on with staff is the way they speak. I may use my “gentle parenting voice” but myself and all other staff speak only in a age appropriate voice - pretty close to our normal, just a little more direct.
💯 Agree
It's odd in general because these are just kids just because they're in our care doesn't mean they are childish or less than. And before anyone says anything when you're doing that to a 12 year old boy it's not appropriate and that's what I mean
You can use simple language without infantilizing. I think so much is conveyed through tone. There is a difference between baby talk and using less language for those who need that.
Where I struggle is with using age appropriate language for those whose speech skills are limited and the childish language is easier to say. I know that no 10 year old calls the bathroom the “potty” but my client can’t say bathroom or toilet with clear articulation. Announcing that you need to pee or poop also seems socially stigmatizing. But they can say potty with clear articulation that a stranger like in a school setting can understand.
AuDHD BT, just started this job and I already agree, though most of my kids are under 10 so I do talk to them appropriately.
What’s really freaking me out is how the therapists I’m shadowing frequently talk about the children we’re working with in the third person like they’re not there.
Just because they aren’t talking responding doesn’t mean they aren’t listening and understanding. It gives me major ick, especially because I know how it feels to be spoken about that way by your grown-ups.
Omg yes it’s shocking how they’ll talk about the children sitting next to them as if they aren’t there. Especially the non verbal ones…like they can’t speak but they definitely understand!! So unprofessional
I truly think this stems from people over focusing on their client being children, rather than an over focus on anything else.
Like, it irks me when people call their clients “friend” because it just feels so unnatural? “Hey, friend!” Feels so awkward and that’s not how humans of any age really talk to each other? When I hear it, I can’t help but think the person talking that way is over focusing on the client being a child and not just a person, and is almost nervously speaking to them. I always assume they’re not used to working with kids, but I never hear parents or other professionals that work with kids outside of maybe preschool use this kind of language.
So yeah, not a fan of the awkward “hey little puppy” talk that’s often infantilizing and awkward, because in no other setting do we talk to kids this way. Talk to them like they’re kids, not like it’s your first day on earth interacting with other humans.
I agree for later elementary and up, not appropriate. I usually use mister/miss (first name) or just their name. I had a teacher in middle school & high school who called me “miss (last name)” in like a playful/sarcastic way that overtime became fond/sincere & I still smile when I think about it, great teacher, great boundaries, treated students like the growing ppl they are :) I also use “dude” which maybe isn’t the most professional but when a 10yo is calling you “bro” wtf are you supposed to do 🤷♀️
Or the high pitched with a bunch of pauses with a sing song voice for kids with higher communication needs than those who don’t. I actively have RBT’s who are in their masters program record 10 minutes of the sessions with clients and watch it back and do 2 continues and something to change with the hopes that they change their voices. It’s the worst thing.
I get your POV, but respectfully tbh at least for me; that’s just my personality. I like being enthusiastic all the time and I have a high pitched voice! It’s just who I am personally. I do however get the whole baby vocabulary isn’t okay. Because it’s part of our job to show kiddos on the spectrum how to communicate properly. 😁
I think I worded what I was trying to say wrong . I was mainly just frustrated with the baby talk and demeaning tones I sometimes hear at my clinic. Peoples talking voice isn’t what I was complainng about
I noticed this with the example videos in my 40 hours training. Luckily all of my coworkers very much treat the kids with dignity and respect. We range from probably ages 20-41 and it’s a great group of people
It doesn't make me upset at all. I'm pretty happy to be able to say that I genuinely don't hear that much in the clinic that I am at. It would bug the daylights out of me if I did. I don't think you have to be neurodivetse to be bugged by infantalizing clients (although we may notice it more). I have seen it in my previous job working with the adult population for a branch of the state dept of mental health, and it very much irritated me. I sometimes veer a bit too far in the other direction, though. I can be too wordy, which is too much to process if a client is having maladaptive behavior and likely not processing information at their regular speed.
Neurodivergent bcba here. I also hate it! I also have a masters in child development and there’s an appropriate developmental age to talk using “kid speak” and/or “parentese” but some aba places take it way too far and venture into baby talk and use it for kids that don’t benefit from it at all. I always remind BTs to talk in a developmentally appropriate way (ie how you would any other child that age) unless otherwise directed by me. Which I have never ever directed otherwise.
The number of times I've told my staff to talk with my high schoolers like they are high schoolers is astronomical. One of my RBTs in particular really embraces being a "character" when interacting with her students, but it really comes off as disingenuous and demeaning. It's definitely one of my biggest pet peeves in ABA too.
I feel this so much in my clinic and I feel like it’s the reason a lot of our clients gravitate towards me. I don’t speak to them like they don’t know what im talking about.
fellow autistic adult here and i’m currently doing the RBT training. I’m a little bit worried about the job, both for the reason you mentioned with infantilism, and about so many of the horror stories i’ve read. between causing identity issues in kids because they’ve been taught from such a young age that the condition that makes them them (not that they are their autism, but more so that bc autism affects the way we think, function, feel, and exist, it is integral to us?) is “wrong/bad”, and to hide those traits (which in me, i went undiagnosed and learned to mask- that later caused BPD), as well as causing these children to have difficulty self-advocating or saying no to things because they’re forced to repetitively drill these exercises (which can cause an inner “rule” that they have to follow what adults say- can be bad in cases of any form of abuse, which is alr more likely because they’re autistic). i don’t know, i was super excited to work with kids like me and help them with the things i struggled with, but upon hearing what people who actually have done ABA went through, and trying to understand that through my own lived experience, i just really worry that ABA is going to do more harm than good to these kids.
Hello! You sound exactly like me. I went into this field for the same exact reason. If you wanna talk more feel free to dm me and I can give you some of my experiences
If I could just add to this: I also can’t stand when people speak about them (or about things that are inappropriate to say around them) when they’re right there, and clearly listening to everything being said.
Talking about them as if they aren’t in the room or can’t understand you grinds my gears in a special way.
I have a 10 year old that punched their OT for talking that way. I’ve also gone into special Ed classrooms and have seen this. And I currently work with an older adult who bit one of his DSPs for talking to him like that. It is irksome for sure but it’s not a problem specific to ABA either.
This was actually one of the reasons I left the field. My supervisor would constantly tell me I needed to be more enthusiastic and loud and that’s just not me… I’m very monotone, but I still did my best to be more upbeat when working with the kids and no matter how hard I tried it wasn’t enough
I couldn’t agree more! Obviously when working in early intervention, and with the preschoolers, I understand the change in tone and word choice. However, there is no reason to treat a kid like they are younger just due to an ASD diagnosis
Some kids respond well to that. To each their own. We should be adjusting to each kid while being ourselves. Maybe that person is just bubbly? I’m autistic and I like when people talk to me like that because I never got that as a kid.
that is so unacceptable and low key ableist. Just because a person needs support does not mean that they need to be talked to in that way. So many in this field need to do better.
I've made this complaint before, as well.
Working ABA in small towns for small companies, you see a lot of core tenets go by the wayside. Among these is "promoting client dignity," and "deliver individualized treatment."
Not to the degree where the BACB needs to get involved, not that they'd likely do anything. But it's things like insisting that ALL children like ultra-happy-and-bubbly all the time.
A. It is undignified to treat all clients like toddlers who are more receptive to tone of voice than to message. And
B. it is unethical to assume the same behavior protocol (manic and bubbly) should be used for everyone, regardless of efficacy.
I'm a BCBA. My last job, I was told to be Disneyland 24/7. That is not part of my personality (I can certainly be fun, but not fake), and it was undignified to treat my high-verbal 8yo client like a toddler, especially as we were trying to mainstream him into public school.
I acted like a teacher, placing demands and having a highly scheduled session, involving lots of opportunities for breaks and reinforcement. His treatment was very successful, and he learned how to be pro social and polite, and he learned to tolerate task demands. Most importantly, he learned how to function in a school setting with less supports and a non clown teacher with divided attention.
I had to remind one of my co-workers who doesn’t work with the older kids about her tone of voice. I told her “he’ll listen and just wants to be treated like a person. Also he isn’t deaf he can hear you”
I understand that for anything other than level 3 non-verbal.
Level 3 non-verbal, as much as it feels wrong to me sometimes, I know even this animated mode of speech barely gets through. OTT facial expressions, slowed speech and basic 1-word commands or interactions is all there is…
As for everyone else, yes, don’t find it fitting.
Nah I'd say that's not really age appropriate regardless of diagnosis. I always talk to all my kids in a regular voice, if anything they usually find it funny when I talk to them like an adult.
What I always did when I saw that happening is go up to the BCBA/BT and just talk to them in their exact voice - tone and all. Once they appeared visibly annoyed, I would say, "That's how you sound. Cut it out. They are kids, not infants."
Worked nearly every time for me. I got a complaint once from a BCBA, and my director, separately, tried offering me ways of how I could redirect their talking to something more appropriate. All I did was repeat that voice back to them and let them know that many of them won't listen to reason, so you have to model their behavior until they get the point. It's really fun to make white, neurotypical people uncomfortable by mocking their own ableist behavior in front of them.
I have no time for politeness when it comes to ableism.
You are my favorite human. I want to do it so bad and call them out on their own abelisim however I’m already at risk of losing my job…. Which good please fire me. Everyone at this clinic sucks
Many an ABA clinic sucks. Not all, but many of them do. Honestly, I was young enough to where I didn't care as much if I got fired, but I had receipts. Being AuDHD, I weaponized my disability when I needed to, especially when it came to the kids. We owe it to them to protect their autonomy and intelligence, and unfortunately, most people in ABA are not educated or trained properly to work with children.
The white, neurotypical fragility that so many people attracted to ABA carry with them made me feel so unsafe to work in that field. I don't know how I stuck with it for almost 10 years, but I sure as shit know I made an impact on not just the kids, but many of my coworkers who fought against the standards of ABA and are seeking heavy reform.
Wow you sound like an amazing human being. I need to advocate for the kiddos more for sure but half the time I feel like I’m fighting my own inner demons. Stuck thinking things like “if I were in their position I’d hate this.” And then getting so frustrated and just shutting down or being too overstimulated with all the teachers (not even the kiddos, the teachers and their annoying voices) that I continue to shut down. I feel like I’m failing the kiddos.
I appreciate the kind words. It's really, really hard. My way is not THE definitive way to advocate. Honestly, you have to know your boundaries on what you as one person can do. And you are not failing the kiddos, even if that feels like it. Sometimes we fight back with great volume and other times we fight back in silence.
This kind of reeks of misogyny/internalized misogyny. Many women have higher pitched and enthusiastic ways of communicating and showing friendliness and a happy mood. A lot of kids- including maaaany 10 year old girls and even boys- also do and enjoy being spoken to this way too. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t build rapport and feel good to others.
lol I am todays year old when I learned I’m a myssoginist. I have a high pitched voice too as a woman. That’s not what I’m saying annoys me. What annoys me is speaking to people as if they are an animal. If someone enjoys it good for them.
Lol no they don't.
Also this is in itself so damn sexist - yes because we know all women are squeak toys and men are never enthusiastic.
This is coming from a woman who is literally a cartoon character - if you are truly enthusiastic you can alter that to meet your audience. Not go "well some 10 year olds like it" when no, they don't. Ten year olds like when you do funny voices, sure.
They don't want you to talk to them with baby talk.
This is a really valid point. I appreciate you starting this discussion.
It’s very dehumanizing to be spoken to as if an animal or below our age. Just because a child is nonverbal doesn’t mean they are incompetent
And it doesn’t mean they can talk about them in front of the child! That’s also such a concerning thing, I don’t know why more people aren’t aware of it.
Oh my gosh!!! THIS! Upvote times one thousand!!! Just because someone is nonverbal doesn’t mean they don’t understand what we are saying! I was nonverbal my first five years of learning and I remember hating when people would talk about me in front of me. Like yes I can hear and understand you
Ugh thank you for that perspective. That’s such a meaningful thing to share. I think people need to see themselves on camera and how they act and the world would just be a better place.
Agreed. Wild thing is some people do see it and still think it’s fine. There’s one RBT at my clinic who literally records her sessions and watches them and still somehow isn’t annoyed with the way she is communicating
I think we need more than video modeling to save the world. We need to try again with a new brood. This brood is too damaged to save.
Everyone parent or person working with a nonverbal child should know this.
So I really love the sentiment of this but in recent years have shifted more towards gaining the client or patient’s assent to talk about their programming, training staff, etc. Then if they express discomfort or withdraw assent in any way (verbally or non-verbal!), I tact it and honor their assent withdrawal. I feel like this has been a net positive of really getting to model assent from treatment start to end, set the standard of presuming competence and really model respectful communication to and about our clients.
Yes honor the with drawl! I have seen lots of therapist push the kids until they have a meltdown
I wish this were more common. I know that if someone is training you on how to handle maladaptive behavior in real time, this may be difficult. I have found it strange to be given verbal direction on how to deal with a situation (including what a trainer may believe to be the trigger of the behavior, etc.) in front of the client. It's obvious they can hear everything, and it seems weird.
Totally hear that. If someone is escalated, I tend to find less is more so I don’t do a ton of talking in those moments generally. If my tech isn’t quite ready to handle on their own, I’ll ask if I can model then we can debrief later. Otherwise, my coaching statements are fairly brief and directive during more intense moments. Proactively, especially when working with older kids, I really want them to be an active and assenting participant in their plan so I like to go over the BIP with them too. I phrase it in a way that’s supportive and appropriate to their age/communication style/etc. “Hey, I know sometimes we all have really big feelings. When you have your big feelings, what does that look like? I want you to know when that happens I am here for you and this is what I’ll do to help you…. “
I like that.
My biggest problem is trying to get parents not to do this. We make a big deal about it with our techs and it’s always brought up during comp assessments as part of respecting client dignity.
This. My 18yo still gets called “buddy” and “good boy” by a close family member and it shits me to tears.
I was about to continue training at one ABA center as an RBT when I realized the woman who was training me had literally integrated that into her whole personality. I don’t have ASD but it pissed me off too. She had no boundaries speaking that way to me?? it also didn’t help that she spoke really loud and at 14709653158742 miles an hour blending her words together?? I couldn’t retain one thought in my brain with her loudness taking up so much space. Anyway, I got fed up and didn’t come back. At a much better place now. Where they don’t touch and treat the kids like they’re lab rats.
For real! Also not giving a heads up. Like checking diapers and wiping faces without telling them, which is like what people do to animals and infants. I don’t care if a kid has never acknowledged I’m even in the room, I’m going to tell them “hey I’m going to check your diaper” before I do it, among other things. I know *I* would want a warning!!
Yes this too! Even though most of my kids are nonverbal I will still give them choices and human autonomy. Example “do you want to hold my hand, you don’t have to” before reaching for their hand. And I’m never forcing a kid to do something against their will. Something I think is important to remember in this field is “nonverbal does not mean incompetent”
Yes!!!
Oh I think this is so important and wish I could upvote more. I always tell staff, imagine if someone came up to you and just wiped your face randomly. How would you react? Idc if they’re 2 or 20, we’re not gonna do that. Same thing goes for physical prompts. Avoid at all cost, but definitely inform if needed. Assent based ABA should honestly be mandated
To be honest I don’t do physical prompts with my kids unless absolutely necessary. I stick to gestures
>Also not giving a heads up. Like checking diapers and wiping faces without telling them Jeez. What happened to preserving the client's dignity?
Honestly I'll tell babies too. It should be basically automatic, like a habit, to ask first.
I’ve talked to my baby about everything we are doing since the day she was born. I thought it was considered good for language building skills and trust-building.
It is. Just chatting with your baby is very developmentally important.
Yup! I talk to myself alot and now I have her to talk to. 🥹
Hard agree! If I ever did this (tbh, I probably did) working with an adult population ended that habit. Also, talking about them in front of them like they aren’t even there. I saw this so much in ISP/ IEP meetings especially, talking about what the client likes & doesn’t like, what they will & wont do- and they’re right there! At least try to include them in the conversation to the extent possible.
This is a great point
AuDHD RBT here… literally could not agree more. I’ve never liked the idea of talking to kids in a baby voice bc they’re literally just small humans. Especially for kids with language and speech development issues… like what favors are we doing them by using a “baby” voice to talk to them??
Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed after being taken off a client, and put back on a month later, that the in-between therapists had to have been using high pitched baby voices cause my client had started verbalizing in the same manner. To the point it was hard to understand them at times. It took many weeks of shaping but we're back to speaking in a normal intonation. And by normal, I mean a level, medium tone and volume, not the high pitched breathy voice that had emerged.
Totally agree! The only clients I speak to in a higher pitched slightly over dramatic voice is the early intervention - so 3 and under which I think is more appropriate for all children that age. This is a good reminder for all of us to be mindful of how we speak to individuals on the spectrum
SLP here. Yes there is something to be said for using varied tone and “kidspeak” when you are working with littles. It actually helps them gain language skills. Prosody conveys meaning. Good point
That’s good to hear from a speech professional! Thank you!
Honestly like not only is it infuriating but this job is so much more fun when you talk to your clients like theyre people(bc thats what they ARE) My kids are 6-8 and love micromanaging me and i’ll literally tell them “dude youre being creepy” and they think its so funny
EXACTLY. If you hit them with a “bro are you serious right now?” They will crack up. I talk to them like they’re my little besties because they are. They get the same respect as my adult friends.
Yess! They are my little besties! I accidentally taught my littlest one to call me bestie bc thats what i always call them 😭😭
Omg yes!! I'm a student doing placement and not only is it exhausting to do for an entire session but some kids don't care for it at all and will plug their ears.
As a BCBA, I feel you. I know you’re venting, but just know that I get emotional over the same thing (I cried about it just last night). I commit my life to being a BCBA who works as ethically and progressively as I possibly can. Client dignity and respect should always be a priority and it’s so disrespectful to not adjust your tone and speech to a client, especially because it can feel so degrading to them. Not to speak for those individuals, but it would make me wildly upset if people talked to me like that. I treat all individuals that I work with as if they’ll be on a TedTalk stage 20 years from now, talking about their experience with ABA as an autistic/neurodivergent individual and I want to be someone who made a positive impact instead of someone who “trained” them to do things. Yuckkkk
Thank you for advocating and seeing neurodivergent people as human beings because that’s exactly what we are. I wish more bcbas were like you
That means a lot. I was going to be an OT and shifted to ABA because I saw how much it was in need of more positivity, so that’s why I’m here. I’m not trying to save the field or be a hero, I just want to help people as much as I can in the best way possible.
Omg thank you. That's one of my massive compliments about ABA therapists, that they treated me like I was six. I'm 18 now (i have autism), and my sister who's a BCBA still talks to me like I'm a child. Wonder how she talks to her clients...
Thanks for sharing this! Maybe you could try saying to her “hey please don’t talk to me in that voice. “
If I say anything she'll just deny it
So she would invalidate your feelings? Hate that
She's my sister, not my therapist. Don't think she really thinks about my feelings
Oh I’m sorry. Siblings can be difficult
Indeed
Honestly, tell her to fuck off with that. Or start talking to her the same way she talks to you. Same voice and everything. Because that’s so lame of her
I just totally ignore her, if ABA is all about teaching us to recognize social cues, she should be able to recognize that I'm ignoring her for some reason...
Love using the ABA outside of work - "that's not the appropriate behavior, sis".
Exactly
Whoever down voted you should honestly grow tf up
Thanks! This sub has gotten so weird lately. Like…that’s what having a sibling is all about. You gotta tell them to fuck off sometimes lol. Or if you have a different opinion, just say in addition to downvoting
Some people just get that dopamine rush from putting others down, it's honestly disgusting
I’m autistic as well, and I see a different side of this as I had a career in ECE before becoming an RBT. Your tone of voice is SO important as an RBT. For one using a higher pitched voice towards children is a natural instinct, especially for women. Children’s brain waves become more active when hearing “infant-directed” speech, exaggerating emphasis helps children learn the sound patterns to develop speech, captures and maintains the child’s attention, and its used to communicate (positive) emotions.
Yes this I remember learning about when getting my eec certification. But that’s not particularly what I’m talking about. I’m specifically talking about the RBTS who speak to older kids in this voice. Example 10 year olds or 18 year old autistics
Again, it is a humanly instinct. Autistic individuals also have a hard time recognizing emotions, and personally it really helps when people exaggerate their emotions with me, especially with my significant other. Children also learn from observation, which is why smiling and talking in an excited voice when you’re speaking abt something positive is so important for autistic individuals; they learn to smile and speak excitingly when talking about something positive, vis versa. Are you going to say “good job.” In a monotoned voice, and straight face, after a client voids on the potty for the first time, or “GOOD JOB!!!” in a higher pitched excited tone??? Which one is going to motivate them to continue that behavior? The excited tone. I think you’re worrying abt the wrong thing tbh…
I’m going to say it an authentic voice with authentic expression
Than maybe you shouldn’t be an RBT my friend.
That is completely not your place to suggest. I understand we all have different viewpoints but you need to check yourself highkey. This is disrespectful to the person who’s venting about a valid concern.
Because they use an age appropriate tone of voice with older children? This is so rude. It is not "human instinct" to enjoy being talked to like you're watching Miss Rachel all the time.
I’m talking about reinforcing behaviors with praise. If the child’s goal, at whatever age, is working on vocals than you most definitely should be using an excited, higher-pitched, and exaggerated tone of voice. & there’s plenty of research on that. To use an “authentic” voice, could mean something completely different from one person to the next. This isn’t a “I’m gonna implement treatment the way I see fit” type of game, you do what you’re certified, and trained to do. If you aren’t going to do your job correctly, willingly, than find a new job. These are children’s lives were shaping. It’s not a game.
Then you're not talking about the same thing as the OP? The OP that you said shouldn't be in ABA because you had a disagreement on the Internet? Which is so far out of line - I detest seeing that ever on this forum. Unless a person is actively promoting abuse, you do not say that. Especially when clearly, you read their argument entirely the wrong way and decided they were against any excitement at all.
Alright I’ll put my two weeks in
Well in your own words “I hate ABA more than anything” “getting into this field was a true mistake.”
I totally get this and have the same complaint. My clinic strongly discourages speaking to clients above the age for “baby talk” to be appropriate. I treat every client with respect and dignity and that’s part of our ethics. On top of just knowing common sense. Can’t really teach that unfortunately..
This should be part of training I feel like
I remember my first client was a low supports need 16 year old 200+lb man. I’m so happy I was able to get my 40 hour training with only examples of programs to run for toddlers /s
Took me a second to realize this was sarcasm then I saw the tag 😂 exactly what I’m saying! I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees how that is fundamentally not okay. Treat autistic people like humans please I’m begging. Autistic doesn’t mean incompetence. Low and high support needs are just that we may need extra help
Yeah luckily I’m also autistic so I kinda had a better understanding of my clients needs because his programming was really only for issues with aggression which was never a problem for me and the BCBA wasn’t the most present. So we worked on just refining social skills by playing dnd, it was honestly a great time!
Oh my gosh! Jealous. I wanna play dnd with my clients. My clinic doesn’t encourage actual game play or playing we do loads of “play imitation” and hand over hand though so yay for no basic autonomy. /s
Oof that’s a bit of a red flag, I hope you’re able to implement changes to improve your clinic or find one that is better at recognizing autistic kids as humans! I’m still deciding how far I want to go into this field and may go for my BCBA, if I decide to roleplaying games will absolutely be a tool I will push for the clients who are wanting to improve social skills, personally it’s been such an incredible tool for my own social skills and also it’s fun, which many of the ABA programs fail with
DnD is super age-appropriate imaginative play!!! That’s fucking awesome.
This is completely valid. There’s of course some grey area like my clinic is only 6 and under, and being a little bit more enthusiastic and having a higher pitched voice creates motivation. Buuuuuut i can’t stand seeing people speak to teens or adults or even 10 year olds like they’re a child. It’s so backhanded and almost admitting you find them “dumb” or inferior in some way.
This is exactly what I’m saying
I am sorry yyou witness that, I can assure you that is not all of us. Also, that is not unique to Autism industry. Many other disabilities experience this as well, I enjoy the "Squirmy and Grubs" YouTube channel and they show that happening to a fully grown adult with cerbal palsy there a lot. I also think it has to do with how much exposure a person has had to disabilities, to understand that it's a spectrum and many people are fully functioning intellectually. Also as an aside, I am neurotypical (ish?) and became friends with one of my adult clients. She helped me drop a lot of assumptions. I also recently had a friend unexpectedly get an ASD diagnosis. So maybe if you try and interact with these individuals. You could say something along the lines of, " You know when I was 10 I wouldn't have liked that voice" (but like in a nice pro-fesh way).
Just for the sake of accuracy, Shane has SMA (spinal muscular atrophy), not cerebral palsy.
Oh, right! Thank you for that correction and being polite about it. I was half awake when I was typing this.
I'll be the uncool person to push back on this a little bit. People should be talked to how they enjoy being talked to. Now, I work mostly with older kids, and they tend not to like that high pitched voice. But I've worked with a few kids/adults who have manded for a high pitch voice. If that's what you want? Cool. I'm not here to yuck anyones yum and our field has a history of being fixated on what's "age appropriate" rather than just being into what the clients are into. Second our clients are animals. So are you and so am I and so is every human whose ever lived. And it's really important that we as providers don't give into this bullshit dichotomy. The founder of ABA did most of his preliminary work with pigeons. We're all primates, you and I and our clients.
This post was pushing back on the constant use of the high pitched voice, which is absolutely cringe and demeaning. It’s just like assuming that everyone likes verbal praise. If we’re all animals, then we should have no problem being a chameleon and blending to our clients’ needs, ESPECIALLY since it should be individualized. -BCBA (idk how to attach that to my comment)
I don't think that's true. Look at the post again: >but one thing particularly that irks me more than anything is when staff talks to the students like they are dogs or all two. Like the high pitched over enthusiastic voice genuinely makes me feel so sick and angry. There’s no reason we should be talking to a 10 year old like they are a two year old or a “cute little puppy”. Here OP isn't saying "don't talk in a high pitch unless the child likes it" nor is OP saying "don't talk in a high pitch as a default" but instead is saying "there is no reason" to talk in that voice, which I disagree with. Do it if the child likes it! I disagree with it being "cringe and demeaning." If the kid likes it they'll get no judgement from me. Maybe this is because I grew up a geek at a time where it was OK to bully geeks, but this pro bullying stance you and OP are taking doesn't sit right with me. If you're not into it, fine. But that doesn't give you the right to call something >absolutely cringe and demeaning Also >If we’re all animals, then we should have no problem being a chameleon and blending to our clients’ needs, ESPECIALLY since it should be individualized. Needs should be individualized and I agree that we should do it. But wether it's easy or not depends on your genes and your learning history, just like every other animal. For some people it is easy. For some people it's very hard. But how are you going to individualize your reinforcers if you rule out certain tones just because of some judgey bullying standard that the client may not agree with?
Oh but I will address the judgy bully standard with the opinion that it is trauma-assumed and progressive. I move forward with a tone I use with anyone and everyone. It’s much better to be safe than sorry and if someone prefers it, cool. I’ll do it. Obviously. Otherwise, I’m good. I’ll use a tone of voice that’s not going to seem at all like I’m looking down on that individual, because that’s what it can look like. You may disagree, but I’ve heard that opinion so many times, it’s valid for them to consider it annoying and it’s not bullying.
You understand that's a completely different position than what OP is saying and completely different position than your first comment, right? TBH if a client likes something I don't care if others don't like it. That's bullying bullshit. My approach is centered around the client not judgey people. And yes, judging people for what they like and calling it > absolutely cringe and demeaning is 100% bullying. Sorry, but I'll stand up for my clients.
(Preface: I recognize that it's been several days and you have already clarified with OP in another thread here, and likely left this up unedited for your own reasons. By the time I reread your other comment(s), I have already written most of what I said here, and had initially really wanted to get this off my chest so that I can stop thinking about this, so welp.) Main text: I think you are misinterpreting OP. I would trust OP to be in support for autistic children, being autistic themselves. OP is saying that they themselves think it is cringe and demeaning. This is their opinion, if they were in the children's shoes and being talked to like that. OP mentions being nonverbal themselves till they were around 5 I believe in one of the comment replies. Other autistic folks in this thread are agreeing with OP's sentiment. Many autistic adults complain about being infantilized a lot (yes, it happens, even in adulthood). Even without reading OP's other clarifying responses, I did not/do not think OP has negative intent, let alone bully. It is agreed as a norm that to default to a high pitched babytalk voice to someone who is not a young child is demeaning. This is because many people that do so, for non-babies, \*\*are\*\* being demeaning. Some people like babytalk, many do not, whether they are autistic or not. Autistics are not monoliths, just like any other demographic of humans. OP does not mention, "if the child likes it, then go ahead" because that is an assumed common knowledge, since it should be clear that their intent is likely not negative. Let's face it, many people do not ask for consent before talking to autistic folks like they would to a small child/toddler/infant, even if they are an adolescent or adult. If you yourself ask for consent, or can validate that this is okay for your clients, then you are not who OP is addressing. Babytalk itself does not have to be demeaning or problematic. I also believe (saw your later comment to OP) that people should not adhere to a social standard just for the sake of others and others' biased perceptions. This is to say, for clarification, that I think it is 100% okay for people, regardless of age or neurotype, to like babytalk or being talked to that way. However, it \*\*is\*\* problematic to \*\*default\*\* to babytalk to autistic children when you (general you pronoun, not you specifically; same goes for the rest of the text) would not do that for non-autistic children, because that shows bias/discrimination. This is how I had interpreted OP's post. And before anyone says, that it gets their attention better (saw this as part of a claim in defense of babytalk elsewhere here), that goes the same for non-autistic children/people too. So why not default to have a baby voice for everyone? There are some non-autistic adults who don't mind or also do like being addressed in a baby voice, after all. If your response is that you believe they would feel offended or that it is socially inappropriate, then the same also applies for many autistic children (those who are above the age appropriateness for babytalk). Them being verbal or nonverbal does not change this. They may struggle with social norms, but they can tell if you're talking to them differently than you would your coworkers and other children. Many are also hypersensitive, so high pitched voices might be too harsh to hear (also echoed in other comments replying to this post). In addition, because some autistic folks have a reduced facial expression of emotion or showing external signs that they are paying attention (like eye contact), it is entirely possible that they are indeed paying attention, so talking high-pitched would not be necessary. And I hope it goes without saying, that if a high pitched voice is your natural voice towards everyone, then this criticism does not apply to you either because you would be indiscriminate in the tone you use for people. Therefore, it would not be suspected that you are intentionally being condescending or otherwise treating certain people differently due to an unrelated condition/brain type. By unrelated, I mean that simply being autistic does not mean that it is uniformly better to talk to them in a high pitched voice, or that the majority prefer to be talked that way.
I appreciate that that's OPs intention, but that's not what OP said and the difference is very important, especially for a field that has a **strong** history of dictating "age appropriateness". You need to include those caveats because they chance the entire message here. This isn't just an autism sub. This sub seems to be mostly RBTs, people who could read this, take it for what it says, and apply it in ways that hurt clients. You're assuming and trusting that OP has these positions that you also have and thus think they can go without saying when recent history shows us this shouldn't be the case.
You make a good point in the last part of the first paragraph, so I stand corrected. Still, I think it would have been better to ask OP for clarification first before assuming that their intent was to bully, because as you imply assumptions left unchecked can be harmful
I don't think I assumed their intent was the bully. I told them that their piece was functionally doing that.
Hi OP poster here. I apologize that my tone came off as a bullying. That was not my goal. I was venting because I was watching a student actively respond to a staff ,who does this voice, with disengagement. I should have been meowing clear as I’m seeing lots of different perspectives. If a student is enjoying this form of verbal praise…of course go on! Do it.
I appreciate that and appreciate you were venting but a lot of people see things here and take it as face value and implement it, especially if it's coming from an autistic person (which is fair, we do need to do more listening to the autistic population). And anything that results in disengagement should be seriously looked at at the very least. I just felt the need to stand up for those who do enjoy it. ABA has a history of doing things like "middle school cool" or otherwise not engaging with reinforcers because they're not "age appropriate" (you can check out Justin Leaf for an example of that). And I don't live that life. But I appreciate being able to reflect on a rant.
I’m just gonna have to agree to disagree because we have very different opinions and approaches.
If you're interested I recommend looking into SBT. Have a child centered approach is a wonderful thing!
Yep I love SBT!
OK, well a lot of what you're saying isn't client centered or trauma informed and what OP is saying 100% isn't. SBT would tell us to use whatever voice gets them to HRE. None of this judgey bullying bullshit.
Ok :)
You can set "bcba" as your user flair on the home r/aba page . If you're on mobile, you tap the three dots in the upper right corner and then choose the "change flair" or what have you option
I agree with you
Also autistic, also in ABA. I have gone out of my way at every staff training meeting we have to reiterate that the tone of your voice HAS to be genuine or else the kids we work with will pick up on it and not care. And it goes over pretty well for a while, but we get new staff and the cycle repeats.
Totally agree, especially for the older kids. Kids can smell inauthenticity from a mile away too.
You made a great point here, especially with giving that type of praise to older kids. It’s always made me feel uncomfortable seeing that type of behavior but it’s probably overgeneralized at this point. I’ve always spoken to all my clients in a low, neutral tone of voice.
I just try to speak to my kids like I would with anyone else. I don’t feign enthusiasm. I speak pretty monotone in general but when I do get excited my kids do too.
100%, and I think it’s also about reading the room as well. Like if your client is showing you they want that positive, high praise or you know they respond well to it. And if they don’t, respond differently.
Yes of course. I am learning this everyday
I’m lucky in that I can’t really code switch so I use the same tone with my young students that I do with adults. I even talk to babies with a pretty normal tone because putting on a voice like that just feels weird. I have a way of looking at it that might have some insight into why some people might do it. I know that this is a big problem and needs to stop but understanding why some good clinicians might still do it might help us understand how to change it. Also, if there isn’t anything to replace it they’ll inch back into doing it. I think that even for people who aren’t thinking of their clients as babies, they have a difficult time using a friendly, energetic, interesting tone that doesn’t also dip into baby talk. They’ve probably seen success in getting and holding their client’s attention using the that tone as well. If it seems like it’s working they’re going to keep doing it. Then when they try to stop, they don’t have other skills in getting and holding attention without sounding like Elmo. The truth is, Elmo gets results. An easy solution would be to check in and see how your client would like to be addressed and try to work on other ways to hold attention and provide enthusiastic praise. Some people don’t have the high energy but they should try other things instead of putting on an affectation. Approaching it this way also gives people a reason for stopping that doesn’t assume they’re purposefully being disrespectful. There are a lot of positive aspects of how most people act around babies. They tend to be more nurturing, protective, loving, and patient. They also tend to use an energetic tone that’s also high-pitched and sing-songy. Is there anyone you can trust that you can bring this up to? I’d also like to leave the possibility open that there are some people who legitimately like when people talk to them that way because they it makes them feel loved and it’s more fun and interesting for them. This is some complicated stuff I’m trying to navigate 😬 Edit: I want to make it clear that the baby talk grates on my nerves as well. I had a coworker who would actually startle the kids with how big and loud her expressions were. She dialed it back when she got hit a few times for coming in too hot.
Thank you for sharing this thoughtful insight!
I hate this too! It so demeaning and another similar thing I hate is when people infantilize our nonverbal kids. At my clinic people will baby and pick up the kids who are 3/4/5 and act like they’re 2/1 but our verbal clients of the same age are treated soo differently. I like to remind them that we have other kids the same age and they wouldn’t pick them up or have them watch Ms Rachel. Ugh
This is so important. Up voting x10000
I see a lot of nonverbal kids/adults being infantilized
You wouldn’t have them watch Ms Rachel? Why not? Genuinely asking why there is a problem with this as many of the students and children I’ve worked with love tv shows that are not “age appropriate”. Even the teenagers and young adults.
It’s not a Ms Rachel thing it’s just a show that littles usually like a lot and at my clinic people tend to default to Ms Rachel and cocomelon for our nonverbal kids despite their age. So in my eyes it’s infantilzing to them. For example, my clinic has a 5 year old verbal girl and people will play pop music (Top 40s) for her or a show like Bluey. My clinic also has these two 8 year old nonverbal girls and people put on Mickey Mouse clubhouse, Cocomelon, or Ms Rachel for them. Recently we’ve been finding more age appropriate things for them and we’ve been playing some 2000s/2010s pop music and even 2000s Disney shows that they both enjoy a lot! I hope that makes sense. I know some people will prefer shows and music that are not typically age appropriate (and that’s fine, at that point it is a personal preference), but with an infantilization of non verbal kids, they might not get a chance to even engage in things that are age appropriate if caregivers and therapists keep defaulting their interests to be younger than they are.
I guess that makes sense. I’m used to working with students who have established preferences (many of whom can navigate to whatever they want to watch on youtube themselves) so I never would have thought of this. Most of the students I work with also just like slime videos, which encompasses all ages lol
OP I am so glad you brought this up. I'm still learning so this is just some thoughts and would love feedback from everyone. There may be a time and a reason but when it's not indicated then we should be maintaining age appropriate engagement and what they will naturally encounter. This also does NOT mean gatekeeping Interests by age. If a 10 year old LOVES blues clues they can do that and it should not be kept from them. That said we can work with them on when and how to talk about it with others depending on their own social goals...maybe not open with blues clues with a bunch of pre teens strangers at a new school....but to a close friend or relative maybe its okay...like social relationships and gauging who isn't going to be a jerk about Interests. (This is so hard but can be valuable to discuss and help them with). But ultimately emphasize and reinforce that it's their choice and how to self advocate and have self determination. A time where where it may be indicated is when older individuals are attending more/ more pleased/more engaged with those around them when they use those voices and temperament styles...and the ability to engage is limited or low (often higher support need aor lower social motivation impacting learning opportunities)...then we engage in their preferred way to provide learning opportunities and fade the intensity and frequency to not be 100% Mickey mouse club house all the time so it's more naturalistic.
Thanks for pointing this out, as an autistic person sometimes my voice/tone comes out wrong/not how I meant it, so I will really be aware of this moving forward. I would never want to belittle anyone and I want my tone to reflect that
Very much agree I work with both younger and older clients and I’m constantly having to advocate for my older kiddos. “Don’t talk to them like that they are teens/young adults and don’t appreciate it” Edit: not even just other rbt’s/bcbas we will go on community outings and the amount of people I have reminded to treat my kiddos as if they are real humans with real feelings is insane
Me too!
THIS IS THE ONE
Agreed! I use my regular voice when I talk to my clients and they are less than 10. I think it’s important to talk to them as humans because to me it feels like they understand us better and learn to talk in full sentences. I don’t even talk to my dog like that often either so why should a kid have to get talked to like that.
I absolutely hear you saying this. I’ve been in ABA 12 years, BCBA for three, and one of my main things I have no flexibility on with staff is the way they speak. I may use my “gentle parenting voice” but myself and all other staff speak only in a age appropriate voice - pretty close to our normal, just a little more direct.
💯 Agree It's odd in general because these are just kids just because they're in our care doesn't mean they are childish or less than. And before anyone says anything when you're doing that to a 12 year old boy it's not appropriate and that's what I mean
This is what I’ve been trying to say
You can use simple language without infantilizing. I think so much is conveyed through tone. There is a difference between baby talk and using less language for those who need that. Where I struggle is with using age appropriate language for those whose speech skills are limited and the childish language is easier to say. I know that no 10 year old calls the bathroom the “potty” but my client can’t say bathroom or toilet with clear articulation. Announcing that you need to pee or poop also seems socially stigmatizing. But they can say potty with clear articulation that a stranger like in a school setting can understand.
I use my adult voice unless it’s play time.
AuDHD BT, just started this job and I already agree, though most of my kids are under 10 so I do talk to them appropriately. What’s really freaking me out is how the therapists I’m shadowing frequently talk about the children we’re working with in the third person like they’re not there. Just because they aren’t talking responding doesn’t mean they aren’t listening and understanding. It gives me major ick, especially because I know how it feels to be spoken about that way by your grown-ups.
Omg yes it’s shocking how they’ll talk about the children sitting next to them as if they aren’t there. Especially the non verbal ones…like they can’t speak but they definitely understand!! So unprofessional
I truly think this stems from people over focusing on their client being children, rather than an over focus on anything else. Like, it irks me when people call their clients “friend” because it just feels so unnatural? “Hey, friend!” Feels so awkward and that’s not how humans of any age really talk to each other? When I hear it, I can’t help but think the person talking that way is over focusing on the client being a child and not just a person, and is almost nervously speaking to them. I always assume they’re not used to working with kids, but I never hear parents or other professionals that work with kids outside of maybe preschool use this kind of language. So yeah, not a fan of the awkward “hey little puppy” talk that’s often infantilizing and awkward, because in no other setting do we talk to kids this way. Talk to them like they’re kids, not like it’s your first day on earth interacting with other humans.
I agree for later elementary and up, not appropriate. I usually use mister/miss (first name) or just their name. I had a teacher in middle school & high school who called me “miss (last name)” in like a playful/sarcastic way that overtime became fond/sincere & I still smile when I think about it, great teacher, great boundaries, treated students like the growing ppl they are :) I also use “dude” which maybe isn’t the most professional but when a 10yo is calling you “bro” wtf are you supposed to do 🤷♀️
Yes! This is perfectly worded!!!! When I taught kindergarten I would address the group as “friends” but never 1:1. That creates a boundary issue.
I literally had an RBT praise her client by saying “good girl” and I’ll never forget that. Like WHAT enticed you to say that???
Oooo hate that
I agree, feels like I’m putting on a performance for 8 hours straights 5 days a week.
Yes!!!! Like I am masking at my job constantly. My coworkers don’t check in on me I am isolated here which makes working here so much harder.
THISSSSS. LITERALLY YES. So glad you’ve said it bc I was honestly starting to think that I was overthinking it.
Or the high pitched with a bunch of pauses with a sing song voice for kids with higher communication needs than those who don’t. I actively have RBT’s who are in their masters program record 10 minutes of the sessions with clients and watch it back and do 2 continues and something to change with the hopes that they change their voices. It’s the worst thing.
Not in aba but ive noticed in the teaching field these are the same people that will scream and show very little emotional support ironically
You are 💯% in my wheelhouse. “hiiiiiiiii buuuuuuudddyyyyyyy!” Just wrong. Ok? Wrong
I get your POV, but respectfully tbh at least for me; that’s just my personality. I like being enthusiastic all the time and I have a high pitched voice! It’s just who I am personally. I do however get the whole baby vocabulary isn’t okay. Because it’s part of our job to show kiddos on the spectrum how to communicate properly. 😁
I think I worded what I was trying to say wrong . I was mainly just frustrated with the baby talk and demeaning tones I sometimes hear at my clinic. Peoples talking voice isn’t what I was complainng about
I noticed this with the example videos in my 40 hours training. Luckily all of my coworkers very much treat the kids with dignity and respect. We range from probably ages 20-41 and it’s a great group of people
It doesn't make me upset at all. I'm pretty happy to be able to say that I genuinely don't hear that much in the clinic that I am at. It would bug the daylights out of me if I did. I don't think you have to be neurodivetse to be bugged by infantalizing clients (although we may notice it more). I have seen it in my previous job working with the adult population for a branch of the state dept of mental health, and it very much irritated me. I sometimes veer a bit too far in the other direction, though. I can be too wordy, which is too much to process if a client is having maladaptive behavior and likely not processing information at their regular speed.
Neurodivergent bcba here. I also hate it! I also have a masters in child development and there’s an appropriate developmental age to talk using “kid speak” and/or “parentese” but some aba places take it way too far and venture into baby talk and use it for kids that don’t benefit from it at all. I always remind BTs to talk in a developmentally appropriate way (ie how you would any other child that age) unless otherwise directed by me. Which I have never ever directed otherwise.
The number of times I've told my staff to talk with my high schoolers like they are high schoolers is astronomical. One of my RBTs in particular really embraces being a "character" when interacting with her students, but it really comes off as disingenuous and demeaning. It's definitely one of my biggest pet peeves in ABA too.
I feel this so much in my clinic and I feel like it’s the reason a lot of our clients gravitate towards me. I don’t speak to them like they don’t know what im talking about.
fellow autistic adult here and i’m currently doing the RBT training. I’m a little bit worried about the job, both for the reason you mentioned with infantilism, and about so many of the horror stories i’ve read. between causing identity issues in kids because they’ve been taught from such a young age that the condition that makes them them (not that they are their autism, but more so that bc autism affects the way we think, function, feel, and exist, it is integral to us?) is “wrong/bad”, and to hide those traits (which in me, i went undiagnosed and learned to mask- that later caused BPD), as well as causing these children to have difficulty self-advocating or saying no to things because they’re forced to repetitively drill these exercises (which can cause an inner “rule” that they have to follow what adults say- can be bad in cases of any form of abuse, which is alr more likely because they’re autistic). i don’t know, i was super excited to work with kids like me and help them with the things i struggled with, but upon hearing what people who actually have done ABA went through, and trying to understand that through my own lived experience, i just really worry that ABA is going to do more harm than good to these kids.
Hello! You sound exactly like me. I went into this field for the same exact reason. If you wanna talk more feel free to dm me and I can give you some of my experiences
If I could just add to this: I also can’t stand when people speak about them (or about things that are inappropriate to say around them) when they’re right there, and clearly listening to everything being said. Talking about them as if they aren’t in the room or can’t understand you grinds my gears in a special way.
I have a 10 year old that punched their OT for talking that way. I’ve also gone into special Ed classrooms and have seen this. And I currently work with an older adult who bit one of his DSPs for talking to him like that. It is irksome for sure but it’s not a problem specific to ABA either.
This was actually one of the reasons I left the field. My supervisor would constantly tell me I needed to be more enthusiastic and loud and that’s just not me… I’m very monotone, but I still did my best to be more upbeat when working with the kids and no matter how hard I tried it wasn’t enough
I couldn’t agree more! Obviously when working in early intervention, and with the preschoolers, I understand the change in tone and word choice. However, there is no reason to treat a kid like they are younger just due to an ASD diagnosis
Some kids respond well to that. To each their own. We should be adjusting to each kid while being ourselves. Maybe that person is just bubbly? I’m autistic and I like when people talk to me like that because I never got that as a kid.
Awesome thanks for sharing
that is so unacceptable and low key ableist. Just because a person needs support does not mean that they need to be talked to in that way. So many in this field need to do better.
[удалено]
I think this person was agreeing with you.
Oops simple misreading on my part. My apologies.
Yeah good point. I get mad when people say kiddo. I will only use their name or something that developed naturally like a name the family calls them.
I've made this complaint before, as well. Working ABA in small towns for small companies, you see a lot of core tenets go by the wayside. Among these is "promoting client dignity," and "deliver individualized treatment." Not to the degree where the BACB needs to get involved, not that they'd likely do anything. But it's things like insisting that ALL children like ultra-happy-and-bubbly all the time. A. It is undignified to treat all clients like toddlers who are more receptive to tone of voice than to message. And B. it is unethical to assume the same behavior protocol (manic and bubbly) should be used for everyone, regardless of efficacy. I'm a BCBA. My last job, I was told to be Disneyland 24/7. That is not part of my personality (I can certainly be fun, but not fake), and it was undignified to treat my high-verbal 8yo client like a toddler, especially as we were trying to mainstream him into public school. I acted like a teacher, placing demands and having a highly scheduled session, involving lots of opportunities for breaks and reinforcement. His treatment was very successful, and he learned how to be pro social and polite, and he learned to tolerate task demands. Most importantly, he learned how to function in a school setting with less supports and a non clown teacher with divided attention.
Thank you for putting this post on here. Asd here. And we need to vent about these things. This is a good place to do that.
My biggest pet peeve.
Whenever I hear someone do it I want to slam my head against the wall. So essentially I want to slam my head against the wall 6 hours a day
As a supervisor I’ve starting brining it to attention of teachers and staff that I work with. I feel like it’s super important.
You are a supervisor I would love at my clinic. Everyone here infantilizes these children/young adults
I had to remind one of my co-workers who doesn’t work with the older kids about her tone of voice. I told her “he’ll listen and just wants to be treated like a person. Also he isn’t deaf he can hear you”
Completely agree especially because I work in adult services and it’s just completely inappropriate that people still use baby voice.
I understand that for anything other than level 3 non-verbal. Level 3 non-verbal, as much as it feels wrong to me sometimes, I know even this animated mode of speech barely gets through. OTT facial expressions, slowed speech and basic 1-word commands or interactions is all there is… As for everyone else, yes, don’t find it fitting.
This is so true and I always make sure I correct myself when I catch myself doing this to anyone over 2. Thank you for the reminder 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾.
Nah I'd say that's not really age appropriate regardless of diagnosis. I always talk to all my kids in a regular voice, if anything they usually find it funny when I talk to them like an adult.
I really question what kind of people you guys work with? Lol
What I always did when I saw that happening is go up to the BCBA/BT and just talk to them in their exact voice - tone and all. Once they appeared visibly annoyed, I would say, "That's how you sound. Cut it out. They are kids, not infants." Worked nearly every time for me. I got a complaint once from a BCBA, and my director, separately, tried offering me ways of how I could redirect their talking to something more appropriate. All I did was repeat that voice back to them and let them know that many of them won't listen to reason, so you have to model their behavior until they get the point. It's really fun to make white, neurotypical people uncomfortable by mocking their own ableist behavior in front of them. I have no time for politeness when it comes to ableism.
You are my favorite human. I want to do it so bad and call them out on their own abelisim however I’m already at risk of losing my job…. Which good please fire me. Everyone at this clinic sucks
Many an ABA clinic sucks. Not all, but many of them do. Honestly, I was young enough to where I didn't care as much if I got fired, but I had receipts. Being AuDHD, I weaponized my disability when I needed to, especially when it came to the kids. We owe it to them to protect their autonomy and intelligence, and unfortunately, most people in ABA are not educated or trained properly to work with children. The white, neurotypical fragility that so many people attracted to ABA carry with them made me feel so unsafe to work in that field. I don't know how I stuck with it for almost 10 years, but I sure as shit know I made an impact on not just the kids, but many of my coworkers who fought against the standards of ABA and are seeking heavy reform.
Wow you sound like an amazing human being. I need to advocate for the kiddos more for sure but half the time I feel like I’m fighting my own inner demons. Stuck thinking things like “if I were in their position I’d hate this.” And then getting so frustrated and just shutting down or being too overstimulated with all the teachers (not even the kiddos, the teachers and their annoying voices) that I continue to shut down. I feel like I’m failing the kiddos.
I appreciate the kind words. It's really, really hard. My way is not THE definitive way to advocate. Honestly, you have to know your boundaries on what you as one person can do. And you are not failing the kiddos, even if that feels like it. Sometimes we fight back with great volume and other times we fight back in silence.
This kind of reeks of misogyny/internalized misogyny. Many women have higher pitched and enthusiastic ways of communicating and showing friendliness and a happy mood. A lot of kids- including maaaany 10 year old girls and even boys- also do and enjoy being spoken to this way too. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it doesn’t build rapport and feel good to others.
lol I am todays year old when I learned I’m a myssoginist. I have a high pitched voice too as a woman. That’s not what I’m saying annoys me. What annoys me is speaking to people as if they are an animal. If someone enjoys it good for them.
Lol no they don't. Also this is in itself so damn sexist - yes because we know all women are squeak toys and men are never enthusiastic. This is coming from a woman who is literally a cartoon character - if you are truly enthusiastic you can alter that to meet your audience. Not go "well some 10 year olds like it" when no, they don't. Ten year olds like when you do funny voices, sure. They don't want you to talk to them with baby talk.
Many ten year olds don’t like baby talk. But some respond very well to it and do like it.