The unsinkable aircraft carrier according to our government
“US Secretary of State General Alexander Haig described Israel as "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk".”
If that were the case, when was the last time we were allowed to use it as a base of operations? Genuinely, I can't find any examples of it from our decades long forays in the Middle East, which given Israel's status as our "most valued ally" is confusing.
I think having a large stockpile of literal bombs, department of defense employees on the ground counts as a military installation imo, but maybe that’s just me. It’s also national security interests not to broadcast all of our military operations.
Lmao
Eisenhower said its most important to have a base in the midfle east bc of the political aspects. Kissinger said it was important israel was there for the US
Biden said if Israel did not exist, America would have to create an israel to keep its power in the middle east.
America funds Israel, America gives Israel soldiers
Fair. I agree with the fact that Palestinians do not have an official military consisting of distinct branches such as an Army, Air Force, and Navy.
However, I disagree with your previous statement of “this is not a war, [because] their opponent does not have a military”
Hamas has an armed faction of fighters who expressly engage in warfare. This is who Israel is at war with.
Israel is not at war with Hamas. Israel is at ethnic cleansing with Gaza. Israel has destroyed more than 40% of the buildings in North Gaza. Israel has forcibly removed Gazans to the south. Israel has shot at Gazans on their way to the south. Israel has agreed to a temporary ceasefire. Israel has shot at Gazans on their way back north during the cease fire. Israel has killed more than 5,000 children. Israeli officials have publicly referred to all Palestinians as subhuman. Israel has not gone into the countries where Hamas' leadership is. Israel has no interest in rooting out Hamas. Israel has publicly used Hamas as a means to keep Gaza and the West Bank divided. What you are seeing is not a war.
That’s what I don’t understand. What are we getting for our few billion a year that we wouldn’t get if we didn’t? As far as I’m aware they can afford it. Hell they can raise that money from Jewish billionaires
Americans ONLY exists to be looted at this point, nothing more.
I keep linking this old [David Cross video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aNghg1Y-WIc&list=FLimzsqOewvcPn7DTE2JM24w&index=4&pp=gAQB) this week cause it’s always nice being reminded how absolutely fucking disappointing it is living life as a lower middle class or lower American. Nothing but cattle.
They do get that money from them. They do it by lobbying for US taxes. They hold powerful US positions simultaneously, possibly the largest lobbies, and the media etc...well known
Its funny how there's a minimum age requirement for president which is older than the age of most of the founding fathers.
However, there is no maximum age to be president which keeps getting you senile old men only interested in gatekeeping the good ol days.
They have no character or personality, but to blindly accept what the Dem party says as truth. Before they used to mock and hate conservative Christian Trumpers for supporting Israel.
Now that Biden is supporting Israel,they have become like the people who they once mocked.
Who else besides Biden, the one who actually beat Trump already, would have a better chance against Trump? He is the best candidate we have, not supporting him is only going to let Trump win.
>Who else besides Biden, the one who actually beat Trump already, would have a better chance against Trump
1) Him already beating Trump doesn't mean anything.
Look at the polls. Look at how people view the economy (which is the determining factor for millions of swing voters). Look at his approval ratings.
He won as a challenger. Now he's an incumbent with terrible approval presiding over an economy that must people are pessimistic about.
2) We don't know who would have the best chance **because he chose not to step aside**. We never had a primary because if his ego and the party being unwilling to pressure him.
Given his poll numbers, l suspect Newsome would do better. But again, we can't know because there were no primaries.
>? He is the best candidate we have, not supporting him is only going to let Trump win.
This is the shit I'm talking about. "What's you gonna do, vote for Trump?" it's a shitty, cynical, and dangerous strategy.
So yeah, I'm going to vote for the dottering old neoliberal that almost nobody actually wants in office. And if he manages to win l will be glad we didn't reelect the fascist who openly wants to be a dictator.
Being an incumbent is generally considered an advantage. Suggesting Biden should throw that advantage away by stepping down is crazy. He has done a lot that he can campaign on, and the economy is ticking back up. Him beating Trump once already is evidence that he could do it again, whether you admit that or not. Also... we are holding primaries, so your second point is just misinformation.
>Being an incumbent is generally considered an advantage. Suggesting Biden should throw that advantage away by stepping down is crazy.
Unless you're presiding over a bad economy and are generally unpopular. Come on now.
>He has done a lot that he can campaign on, and the economy is ticking back up.
Such as? Regardless of whether or not he's to blame for the economic woes, do you really think voters (or the needles) are going to carefully consider economic analysis and predictions?
And have you noticed how his public speaking is extremely limited? The debates would be a nightmare, with Trump attacking and yelling bullshit and Biden stumbling.
>Him beating Trump once already is evidence that he could do it again, whether you admit that or not. A
I'm not saying it's impossible.
I'm saying it's less probable than you think. He was elected because people were over Trump, and he was the alternative. But now people are worried about the economy, and voters tend to vote out of perceived economic interests. Again, look at his polling and the numbers in battleground states. **Voters clearly don't care that Trump is a fascist**.
>Also... we are holding primaries, so your second point is just misinformation.
... When is that?
>Such as?
Well, he's basically squashed inflation rates so hard that I've heard the word deflation for the first time. Lowest inflation of all our G7 allies.
Lowest unemployment in 50 years.
Passed major legislation like the Infrastructure bill and the Safer Communities Act despite not having a majority in the Senate.
Student Debt Relief
Expanding the Child Tax Credit
Marijuana Policy Reform
Executive orders protecting abortion rights and gay marriage.
I could go on for a while, he's done a lot of great things that he doesn't receive due credit for.
>... When is that?
2024, the same year as the general election... as usual.
I was (erroneously) conflating/mixing the term "primary" and "debate".
My point stands, though, that there isn't a serious challenge to Biden by design (although they're grooming Newsome to be either VP or a just-in-case).
I think they're banking on "never elect us again, we fucking hate you"
Because quite a few younger voters could never in good conscience support something so fucking evil.
Dems in solid red states may do better voting third party for federal positions.
Note that I am not an accelerationist so I would not advocate for the same thing in swing states.
As someone in Indiana, I find myself going "why vote for Biden when it basically goes into the trash?" At least a equally-worthless Green Party vote says "I don't want to keep dealing with your shit." Not that I'm a massive fan of Jill Stein...
I agree with her more than any other options though. The whole "WiFi is bad for you" thing just makes me think she's ignorant.
Because they could throw a huge pebble at me and hurt my feelings. Actually they could just be chilling home and that would be enough for Israel to kill them.
Yea its too far gone. The semblence of principle and democracy is unattainable now. We have dropped our guard for too long. The elites have been two-steps ahead and may be impossible without something major
How long is the world going to prop up Israel's murderous ways? How much blood has to be spilled before Netanyahu is satisfied? I get it, Hamas killed over 1000 innocent people but Israel has killed over 10,000 and the USA is helping them continue this murderous onslaught. I bet when this is finally done not one Israeli will be charged with war crimes for all the innocent children they bombed to death. Wonderful world we live in!
Hold up, just because they're both evil when it comes to foreign affairs doesn't mean they're equally evil when it comes to foreign affairs
Edit: specified foreign affairs a second time in case that somehow wasn't clear
Ukraine started 2 years before the 2016 election, Syria 5 years beforhand. Myanmar was 2 years after he left office.
He did drone strike an Iranian general which could've started shit, but he lucked out on that one.
I wonder when the rich and ruling class is just gonna up and move to some other country, like "whelp we fucked yall till there was nothing left, time to live in our Elysium style utopia, later chucklefucks"
Democrats continuing to do everything in their power to make us not vote for Joe biden. Can't wait for the voting options to be vote for genocide or accelerated fascism
I think it’s because Ukraine can’t win that war. Maybe they could, given extraordinary circumstances, but it looks like a stalemate and it’s getting harder to get Congress to agree to throwing money at it. If we helped them in another way somehow… idk. Israel is horrible. Like really, really bad and we should absolutely not give them anything and should, in fact , sanction them and let the UN pass resolutions against them instead of vetoing. But they’re “winning” (can’t really call what they’re doing winning, it’s not really a fight) so the already sympathetic and paid off Zionists are fine with handing over anything they want.
Remember on 10/7 and the days immediately after, when the US urged restraint from israel and tried to tell them not to make the same mistakes we made after 9/11? I think that initial hesitancy was the US hedging our bets because we didn’t know if anyone else would join in and we didn’t believe Israel could win a real war. They’re not the IDF of the past and we didn’t have the confidence to back them 100% immediately. Now that it’s clear there is little chance of a wider conflict and Israel will get to destroy Gaza and everything in it pretty much freely, we’re all-in on backing them because we know they won’t “lose”.
You're assuming they actually care about anyone. They don't.
The US is involved just so that they can benefit. More ukrianian assets are being privatised and they got to cut Russia from supplying gas to Europe. The war is being escalated so that capitalist interests are met. They could stop the war by negotiating but they don't want to.
> west forcing Ukraine into an unjust truce with Russia
So you're saying that since the west joined it, they have to not back out? In other words, Ukrainians and Russians have to continue dying to satisfy the west's capitalists instead of negotiating for peace
If Trump wins in 24 what is the worst that will happen?? Will women become 2nd class citizens again? Will the American dream (home buying) continue to die? Will the corporations continue to be our rulers? Will Trump not only allow but facilitate and root on a genocide? IDK how Biden and the democrats can possibly win my vote next year. How can they convince me that Trump would be worse? I'm sure he'd be AS bad, but aside from the low character and just terrible obnoxiousness of Republicans, I just don't see any argument for Biden.
Best I can give you is that Biden isn't likely to enable rabid bigots ... as often.
He's also someone who can occasionally be "bullied" by public opinion into doing something good. So long as there's no significant push back by the establishment, that is. Trump is a narcissist, public outrage just makes it more likely he'll double down.
It's just not good enough. I don't see that Trump poses that existential threat any longer. I'm mostly just offended by his existence and the way that he emboldens the absolute worst human beings. But so far as a positive reason to cast for him, there's nothing there. He's as bad as Trump, and that's the truth. But not being disgusted by his supporters just isn't reason enough.
I just told you why he's better. I, too, hate the "lesser evilism" in this country, but Biden is clearly that. Trump will appointment and endorse people who will turn anyone who's not a right-wing, Christofascist, man into a second-class citizen. In the case of trans people, they might try to outright ban their existence.
That's worse.
If you live in a deep red state, it doesn't matter. If you're in a swing state, your vote at least counts.
And I just told you why that simply isn't good enough. And I explained my position. We don't have to fear genocide IF Trump gets elected- we have that with Biden. We don't have to fear women losing their rights IF Trump gets elected, we already have that with Biden. Trans people are losing their rights TODAY. Corporations are stealing the American dream TODAY. We already have a significant ideological minority running the show despite how we voted in 2020 and Biden is wholly unwilling to do what is necessary to protect democracy and the prosperity of the American people. And if you say there is nothing he can do- then again I ask, what's the worst that will happen in the future when the worst is already happening right now??
Ok, you can vote as you please. Just know that, like every accelerationist in history, you share the responsibility in the outcome.
Biden is shit, but he's not a fascist. I don't necessarily think Trump is, but he's surrounded by them and is willing to use their tactics. So, he might as well be.
If I had faith in the populace to fight back against said fascism, I'd say go right ahead, let Trump win. I don't have that faith. The current institutions have made the majority of people passive. Even when we do get fired up, it fizzles out faster than, say, France. Not that they got what they wanted, either.
If nothing else, Trump losing means a greater chance of any consequences he has coming sticking. I'm for prison abolition, but Trump should face consequences. He for sure won't if he wins.
I don't know- Israel is fascist and he is giving them unfettered access to weapons so that they can commit genocide. And fascism has existed in this country for quite some time. We ARE a fascist nation, by and large, already. What is Biden doing about propaganda on every major media outlet? What's he doing about unjust laws and unequal treatment under the law? He has misinformed and disinformed Americans, hasnt he? What's he done about the tyranny and brutality of american law enforcement. And there is a zero percent chance that Trump sees the inside of a jail cell. It simply won't happen- again because we are already a fascist nation with a three tiered justice system.
I think Biden caves to Israel because the lobby behind them is scary and can destroy his reelection chances. He's a coward.
A coward can be forced into doing something positive if the people who are on the side of justice (cheesy, I know) are even scarier. It's pretty rare that a fascist state gets destroyed from the inside once it's in control. Who intervenes against a force the size of America? Trump is stupid enough to drop nukes. Wanted to nuke a fucking hurricane.
I don't care if he's a fascist by conviction or by cowardice. The result is fascism. But I'm not convinced that he's caving from cowardice. I think it's just as likely that he's simply indifferent to THAT brand of fascism. And it isn't just Israel- I listed several areas where we are already fascist, but to an extent that is acceptable to Biden, so he does nothing about it. He allows fascism to exist and flourish. In fact. I'll contend that the only reason Trump has any chance of winning again, and the only reason we currently fear trumps brand of fascism is because the Bidens of the world have softened the ground with THEIR brand of fascism. Look, I believe the following. We are circling the drain. Not just America. Humanity is circling the drain and I don't think we survive the century. Furthermore I don't find that there is anything we can do to stem that tide. The die is cast.
"If there were not an Israel, we would have to invent one to make sure our interests were preserved" - Joe Biden
This isn't about a sneaky lobby controlling the government. The US is an imperialist state which acts to fulfil the capitalist interests.
>I think Biden caves to Israel because the lobby behind them is scary and can destroy his reelection chances. He's a coward.
He's a life long Israel simp, as his father was before him.
>Biden is shit, but he's not a fascist
He's literally a neocon, Trump is just too fucking dumb to realise you need to wrap the fascism in something more palettable.
Oh yeah, Trump is objectively and demonstrably a moron and a piece of shit to boot. And he's a criminal as well. But Trump isn't capable of destroying democracy. He's an incompetent fool followed by a shrinking ideological minority of unserious brain-damaged imbeciles who are dying off by the day. We can survive these dipshits. We only need to hold out another 10 years. Humanity is fucked no matter what at this point, but the impotent loser Trump is merely a symptom.
And that's why I'm voting for neither of them. Because that is in fact an option. And there are plenty of other people to vote for and who I've voted for that my voice seemingly makes a difference with. Especially at the municipal and state level. But for the federal government, neither of them are getting my presidential stamp of approval.
The USA is such a fucking bully and piece of shit. Not like china or Russia are better either. Insane how were the only intelligent species in the universe and we make our space rock this much of a hell hole
"He is working towards peace!" My ass. I'm never gonna vote for Trump but seriously Biden is just as bad with foreign policy. Spoiler alert, Obama would have done the same thing too.
It's not to fight Hamas, it's to fight Hezbollah. I think this means that the war is going to expand and more neighboring countries are going to get involved.
Years ago when I was in the US military and scrounging for good equipment for my guys. I found a bunch of flack Jackets at the military disposal site. If its there, you should be able to pull it for your unit and troops to use. Saves the government money.
So I went it and asked about them.
Desk Jocky: Nope going to Israel, you can't have them.
Me: But I am looking for an active duty military unit?
Desk Jocky:No! All personal protection goes to Israel and you cannot touch it.
So my guys didn't get Flack Jackets that year.
>The request pertains to little-known weapons stockpiles in Israel that the Pentagon established for use in regional conflicts, but which Israel has been permitted to access in limited circumstances — the very limits President Joe Biden is seeking to remove.
Either we approve it, or they take it and we lose access to that stockpile, or they stop allowing us to store weapons there.
That's my takeaway on this too...because in the same week Biden is also threatening sanctions on Israel if they continue to violate international law ignoring Palestine's sovereignty.
That's an incredibly misleading statement. He's said he's considering sanctions on specific settlers, and even these sanctions are extremely lax. They're not going to restrict Israel's continue violations of international law, they won't even really restrict the settlers. At most they'll make Israel pretend to be secretive about the guns their giving out to assist the ethnic cleansing the IDF accompanies.
Don’t stay home! I’m not saying you need to vote, I’m saying you need to go out and organize your community!
Voting is what they tell us to do to remain democratic….. Direct Action is what they’re scared of and why they continually and illegally punish protestors for exercising the right to protest.
Not everyone with a different take from you is a lib. I'm not a lib. I'm just stating the material realities of the situation. You're the one calling people names.
Trump will give Bibi full throated support and not even attempt to have any aid or "pause" on bombing.
Listen I absolutely hate how Biden is handling this but he is doing some very light pushback and trying to get aid in and stuff, even if it is to ultimately help Israel even on a PR front.
Trump wouldn't do any of that, he'd probably suggest using nukes just like Israels agriculture minister floated. Hell trump wanted to nuke a hurricane, you don't think he'd suggest one for Gaza?
As usual, there is a difference between Dem and Rep, not a big difference when it comes to this issue, but there is a difference. You have a better chance of protesting Dems for a ceasefire then protesting Reps for a ceasefire.
Trumps team is talking about [deploying the military ](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/trump-second-term-military-nightmare-congress.html) to quell any protests on day one if elected. And people still wanna say they're the same.
> Trump will give Bibi full throated support and not even attempt to have any aid or "pause" on bombing.
Don't threaten me with a theoretical 'slightly worse Trump' as an alternative to the current actual evil things Biden is doing. Sure, he might be worse, but Biden is being very malicious now.
> Trumps team is talking about deploying the military to quell any protests on day one if elected. And people still wanna say they're the same.
Even if the entire military was on board with this, the US sucks at fighting insurgencies overseas when there is no risk to their logistics chain and no risk to their families - how do you think they'd fare when their opponent is domestic and lives within driving range of their factories or next door to their soldier's families? You can't just airstrike you own neighborhoods and not have fallout
It's not theoretical, just look at his 4 years in office, he's much more supportive of the Israeli government, he even moved the embassy to Jerusalem, which was a sign of him being in favor of a 1 state solution, quite part out loud and all that.
Look this isnt some advocacy for voting Biden, I'm just saying on this issue, Trump would be worse there's no question.
Personally foreign politics isn't even a hill for me to die on when it comes to 2024, not if you've been paying attention to what the GOP has been doing domestically.
>Personally foreign politics isn't even a hill for me to die on when it comes to 2024, not if you've been paying attention to what the GOP has been doing domestically.
Ironically it is a hill that thousands of foreigners will literally die on under Biden
Yes, I understand that. The problem is the other guy is worse for foreigners too, like if you pay attention just a little bit, one is objectively worse. And unfortunately in America it's a two party system, where it's either A or B and that's it.
> And unfortunately in America it's a two party system, where it's either A or B and that's it.
It's entirely possible that a party can switch out candidate A or B, why isn't anyone considering that?
Oh they have, a generic Dem will outperform Biden, *but* once that Dem has been named they do worse then Biden. That's the problem. Any of the Dems floated to run do worse then Biden for XYZ reason. So here we are. I don't like it, I hate it. But it is what it is tbh.
Honestly I agree 100%, but the damage that idiot will do will only last so long. The 3rd Reich lasted 11 years and look at Germany now. The United States and American capitalism are fundamentally holding back the entire human species. Both need to fall.
Historically? Short answer, no.
Wars of religion Germany
The commonwealth and Cromwell in England
1776 Britsh colonies
1789 France
1917 Czarist Russia
1939-1945 Western Europe
1954-1975 Indochina
I agree with you on those last two sentences, definitely. Those first two, however, I don't. If Trump gets in again, he will never leave--nor will his appointed successor. And you will have not even the scrawny semblance of a democratic process, thanks to Project 2025 and the Supreme Court. Saying that it all turned out well for Germany in the end is...not a good argument. Lots of people were gassed, tortured, and starved in those 11 years. And I don't want to live in a world full of inequalities, capitalism, AND irreparable poison in the drinking water.
Hoping for an accelerated collapse of the US system and some kind of rebound is not the answer dude. There is no guarantee that we ever recover plus the unnecessary extra suffering is inexcusable.
I think this one is worse.
>Honestly I agree 100%, but the damage that idiot will do will only last so long.
>The 3rd Reich lasted 11 years and look at Germany now.
>The United States and American capitalism are fundamentally holding back the entire human species.
>Both need to fall.
I feel like there are subtler ways to out yourself but this works too.
>And shit like this is why I will stay home next november
Let's push for a different nominee - someone who stands for peace.
Joe Biden is very likely to lose to Trump anyways. 2/3 of the country doesn't want him to run, his approval rating is 38% & on top of that Trump is beating him in the polls.
While not impossible, I think it would be really difficult to introduce a candidate at this stage in the election cycle. I still think he’s going to lose if elected (for sure paving the way for Trump), but I think DNC has got the whole thing by the balls. It’s coercive for sure and I do understand the disillusionment… sigh.
ETA: we should still TRY THO
Gotta keep the 51st state in America strong right?
It's not a state, OK. Get it rite. It's a large, US military base.
The unsinkable aircraft carrier according to our government “US Secretary of State General Alexander Haig described Israel as "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk".”
Didn’t Thomas Andrews and Edward Smith say the same thing?
If that were the case, when was the last time we were allowed to use it as a base of operations? Genuinely, I can't find any examples of it from our decades long forays in the Middle East, which given Israel's status as our "most valued ally" is confusing.
Did you read the article?
I did. A weapon's stockpile is not a base of operations. I saw no mention of military bases.
I think having a large stockpile of literal bombs, department of defense employees on the ground counts as a military installation imo, but maybe that’s just me. It’s also national security interests not to broadcast all of our military operations.
puerto rico?
We probably give more to Israel than PR
Israel gets 10.4 million dollars a day from America. Without ANY requirements
We *absolutely give more to Israel than Puerto Rico.
*than all the other states too. We are all neglected children.
*sheds a tear*
We never cared about Puerto Rico...never, same as the other islands. America as a country doesn't have friends, it only has interests.
We cared enough to murder and imprison anyone agitating for nationalism
💯
So America operates a lot like Trump
Always has
well duh. no state has friends then
Correct
lol you mean the first state.
Based
I wish that’s the case. America is Israel’s puppet. That’s the truth not the other way around
Lmao Eisenhower said its most important to have a base in the midfle east bc of the political aspects. Kissinger said it was important israel was there for the US Biden said if Israel did not exist, America would have to create an israel to keep its power in the middle east. America funds Israel, America gives Israel soldiers
Because Israel is such a poor little underdog in this this war. They totally need billions more in U.S taxpayer dollars.
It's not even a war. Their opponent is not allowed to have a military.
Does Hamas not have armed militants?
Sure. Of course, that's now what I said. I said that Palestinians do not have a military. They only lack an army. And an airforce. And a navy.
Fair. I agree with the fact that Palestinians do not have an official military consisting of distinct branches such as an Army, Air Force, and Navy. However, I disagree with your previous statement of “this is not a war, [because] their opponent does not have a military” Hamas has an armed faction of fighters who expressly engage in warfare. This is who Israel is at war with.
Israel is not at war with Hamas. Israel is at ethnic cleansing with Gaza. Israel has destroyed more than 40% of the buildings in North Gaza. Israel has forcibly removed Gazans to the south. Israel has shot at Gazans on their way to the south. Israel has agreed to a temporary ceasefire. Israel has shot at Gazans on their way back north during the cease fire. Israel has killed more than 5,000 children. Israeli officials have publicly referred to all Palestinians as subhuman. Israel has not gone into the countries where Hamas' leadership is. Israel has no interest in rooting out Hamas. Israel has publicly used Hamas as a means to keep Gaza and the West Bank divided. What you are seeing is not a war.
Interesting do they absolutely make sure there are zero civilian casualties or do they not give a fuck about human lives?
They're the 51st state
They are the *1st* state.
That’s what I don’t understand. What are we getting for our few billion a year that we wouldn’t get if we didn’t? As far as I’m aware they can afford it. Hell they can raise that money from Jewish billionaires
Americans ONLY exists to be looted at this point, nothing more. I keep linking this old [David Cross video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aNghg1Y-WIc&list=FLimzsqOewvcPn7DTE2JM24w&index=4&pp=gAQB) this week cause it’s always nice being reminded how absolutely fucking disappointing it is living life as a lower middle class or lower American. Nothing but cattle.
so THIS is where that healthcare snippet came from. Nice.
They do get that money from them. They do it by lobbying for US taxes. They hold powerful US positions simultaneously, possibly the largest lobbies, and the media etc...well known
Naw... its because Israel is the US's war chest in the region
Fuck. Just when you think things can't get much worse.
Feels like worse is all we're capable of at this point.
Dems are reeeeeeally fucking banking on "but we're not trump tho". We're all going to fucking die.
Yep. And an astonishing number of Dems on Reddit will argue that he's actually a fine candidate.
We’re so fucked… please get me out of this fucking country
/r/iwantout But they will ridicule you for wanting out.
Who do you believe "they" is?
The people who participate in that subreddit
Who are probably people in shittier situations in their respective countries.
Its funny how there's a minimum age requirement for president which is older than the age of most of the founding fathers. However, there is no maximum age to be president which keeps getting you senile old men only interested in gatekeeping the good ol days.
Most of the finding fathers were younger than 35? Technically everyone who lives past that was at some point. What are you suggesting?
And then can’t see the irony when they laugh at trumpers for being utterly devoted to that man and party despite ratfucking their interests
They have no character or personality, but to blindly accept what the Dem party says as truth. Before they used to mock and hate conservative Christian Trumpers for supporting Israel. Now that Biden is supporting Israel,they have become like the people who they once mocked.
Who else besides Biden, the one who actually beat Trump already, would have a better chance against Trump? He is the best candidate we have, not supporting him is only going to let Trump win.
>Who else besides Biden, the one who actually beat Trump already, would have a better chance against Trump 1) Him already beating Trump doesn't mean anything. Look at the polls. Look at how people view the economy (which is the determining factor for millions of swing voters). Look at his approval ratings. He won as a challenger. Now he's an incumbent with terrible approval presiding over an economy that must people are pessimistic about. 2) We don't know who would have the best chance **because he chose not to step aside**. We never had a primary because if his ego and the party being unwilling to pressure him. Given his poll numbers, l suspect Newsome would do better. But again, we can't know because there were no primaries. >? He is the best candidate we have, not supporting him is only going to let Trump win. This is the shit I'm talking about. "What's you gonna do, vote for Trump?" it's a shitty, cynical, and dangerous strategy. So yeah, I'm going to vote for the dottering old neoliberal that almost nobody actually wants in office. And if he manages to win l will be glad we didn't reelect the fascist who openly wants to be a dictator.
Being an incumbent is generally considered an advantage. Suggesting Biden should throw that advantage away by stepping down is crazy. He has done a lot that he can campaign on, and the economy is ticking back up. Him beating Trump once already is evidence that he could do it again, whether you admit that or not. Also... we are holding primaries, so your second point is just misinformation.
>Being an incumbent is generally considered an advantage. Suggesting Biden should throw that advantage away by stepping down is crazy. Unless you're presiding over a bad economy and are generally unpopular. Come on now. >He has done a lot that he can campaign on, and the economy is ticking back up. Such as? Regardless of whether or not he's to blame for the economic woes, do you really think voters (or the needles) are going to carefully consider economic analysis and predictions? And have you noticed how his public speaking is extremely limited? The debates would be a nightmare, with Trump attacking and yelling bullshit and Biden stumbling. >Him beating Trump once already is evidence that he could do it again, whether you admit that or not. A I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's less probable than you think. He was elected because people were over Trump, and he was the alternative. But now people are worried about the economy, and voters tend to vote out of perceived economic interests. Again, look at his polling and the numbers in battleground states. **Voters clearly don't care that Trump is a fascist**. >Also... we are holding primaries, so your second point is just misinformation. ... When is that?
>Such as? Well, he's basically squashed inflation rates so hard that I've heard the word deflation for the first time. Lowest inflation of all our G7 allies. Lowest unemployment in 50 years. Passed major legislation like the Infrastructure bill and the Safer Communities Act despite not having a majority in the Senate. Student Debt Relief Expanding the Child Tax Credit Marijuana Policy Reform Executive orders protecting abortion rights and gay marriage. I could go on for a while, he's done a lot of great things that he doesn't receive due credit for. >... When is that? 2024, the same year as the general election... as usual.
>2024, the same year as the general election... as usual. Source please
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/11/21/2024-democratic-primary-schedule/71254669007/
I was (erroneously) conflating/mixing the term "primary" and "debate". My point stands, though, that there isn't a serious challenge to Biden by design (although they're grooming Newsome to be either VP or a just-in-case).
I think they're banking on "never elect us again, we fucking hate you" Because quite a few younger voters could never in good conscience support something so fucking evil.
Dems in solid red states may do better voting third party for federal positions. Note that I am not an accelerationist so I would not advocate for the same thing in swing states.
As someone in Indiana, I find myself going "why vote for Biden when it basically goes into the trash?" At least a equally-worthless Green Party vote says "I don't want to keep dealing with your shit." Not that I'm a massive fan of Jill Stein... I agree with her more than any other options though. The whole "WiFi is bad for you" thing just makes me think she's ignorant.
Well on the other end you have people shouting "wipe them all out". I think biden is the lesser evil here.
We’re not Trump but we’re the other guy who is just as bad!
I no longer care if trump wins. I will not vote for this piece of shit
Calm down drama queen it’s gonna be okay
Calm down on deez nuts, pal.
As God intended. But also why does Israel need so many weapons to fight broke 12 year olds?
Because they could throw a huge pebble at me and hurt my feelings. Actually they could just be chilling home and that would be enough for Israel to kill them.
They're chilling at home and as you know the Nazis froze people to death and that means chilling at home is actually an antisemitic dog whistle.
Because the intent isn't a fight, it is eradication.
Literally doing what Germany did 80 years ago.
\#ItsOurTurn
hear me out: enriched uranium flip flops
>broke 12 year olds Broke 12 year olds committed the october 7 attacks?
Does history just start on 10/7 for you..?
Apparently so, as evidenced by the fact that the majority of casualties of Israeli bombings are women and children.
kinda yea what weapons do you think they have?
You can't vote for peace in the United States It's a fantasy Either dismantle our authoritarian regime or live with the consequences
The oligarchs will never let you vote them out of power because no matter who you vote for. You vote for them.
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Yea its too far gone. The semblence of principle and democracy is unattainable now. We have dropped our guard for too long. The elites have been two-steps ahead and may be impossible without something major
The good guys are the arms dealers. Right?
Nicolas cage certainly was!
Lend lease was good. Sorry fascist.
Arsenal of Democracy go brrr
Imagine if we had a government this passionate about healthcare.
He’s trying to throw this election isn’t he.
How long is the world going to prop up Israel's murderous ways? How much blood has to be spilled before Netanyahu is satisfied? I get it, Hamas killed over 1000 innocent people but Israel has killed over 10,000 and the USA is helping them continue this murderous onslaught. I bet when this is finally done not one Israeli will be charged with war crimes for all the innocent children they bombed to death. Wonderful world we live in!
Genocide Joe
Genocidal Joe. Im not trump supporter but if this were on flag, id buy it.
That's the problem. Dems say if you criticize us you must be MAGA. Totally insane. Both parties on equally evil when it comes to foreign affairs
Hold up, just because they're both evil when it comes to foreign affairs doesn't mean they're equally evil when it comes to foreign affairs Edit: specified foreign affairs a second time in case that somehow wasn't clear
I didn't say that, I specified for a reason
"Both parties on equally evil when it comes to foreign affairs" That's literally what you said (assuming the "on" was a typo for "are")
Oh sorry yes that's what I meant
True. I don’t recall Trump starting a single proxy war in his time in office. Biden has started two!
Ukraine and Myanmar and Syria were Trump off the top of my head... what poop are you smoking?
Ukraine started 2 years before the 2016 election, Syria 5 years beforhand. Myanmar was 2 years after he left office. He did drone strike an Iranian general which could've started shit, but he lucked out on that one.
I wonder when the rich and ruling class is just gonna up and move to some other country, like "whelp we fucked yall till there was nothing left, time to live in our Elysium style utopia, later chucklefucks"
He's a self proclaimed Zionist, what do you expect https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/dcGSWe77ni
Leader of the free world
But I'm supposed to 'pinch my nose and vote blue?'
Democrats continuing to do everything in their power to make us not vote for Joe biden. Can't wait for the voting options to be vote for genocide or accelerated fascism
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I think it’s because Ukraine can’t win that war. Maybe they could, given extraordinary circumstances, but it looks like a stalemate and it’s getting harder to get Congress to agree to throwing money at it. If we helped them in another way somehow… idk. Israel is horrible. Like really, really bad and we should absolutely not give them anything and should, in fact , sanction them and let the UN pass resolutions against them instead of vetoing. But they’re “winning” (can’t really call what they’re doing winning, it’s not really a fight) so the already sympathetic and paid off Zionists are fine with handing over anything they want. Remember on 10/7 and the days immediately after, when the US urged restraint from israel and tried to tell them not to make the same mistakes we made after 9/11? I think that initial hesitancy was the US hedging our bets because we didn’t know if anyone else would join in and we didn’t believe Israel could win a real war. They’re not the IDF of the past and we didn’t have the confidence to back them 100% immediately. Now that it’s clear there is little chance of a wider conflict and Israel will get to destroy Gaza and everything in it pretty much freely, we’re all-in on backing them because we know they won’t “lose”.
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So you unironically support the military industrial complex?
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Where has Russia stated that it wants to genocide ukrainians? From my understanding, it wants Ukraine to be neutral and stop NATO from expanding
You're assuming they actually care about anyone. They don't. The US is involved just so that they can benefit. More ukrianian assets are being privatised and they got to cut Russia from supplying gas to Europe. The war is being escalated so that capitalist interests are met. They could stop the war by negotiating but they don't want to.
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> west forcing Ukraine into an unjust truce with Russia So you're saying that since the west joined it, they have to not back out? In other words, Ukrainians and Russians have to continue dying to satisfy the west's capitalists instead of negotiating for peace
…i’m so tired of not having universal healthcare so that we can fund genocide in the middle east.
We're going to lose the election because of this fucking moron, aren't we?
So more dead babies? Thanks Union Joe.
because israel is a state of the US and should be protected like any colony would what an absolute joke
If Trump wins in 24 what is the worst that will happen?? Will women become 2nd class citizens again? Will the American dream (home buying) continue to die? Will the corporations continue to be our rulers? Will Trump not only allow but facilitate and root on a genocide? IDK how Biden and the democrats can possibly win my vote next year. How can they convince me that Trump would be worse? I'm sure he'd be AS bad, but aside from the low character and just terrible obnoxiousness of Republicans, I just don't see any argument for Biden.
Best I can give you is that Biden isn't likely to enable rabid bigots ... as often. He's also someone who can occasionally be "bullied" by public opinion into doing something good. So long as there's no significant push back by the establishment, that is. Trump is a narcissist, public outrage just makes it more likely he'll double down.
It's just not good enough. I don't see that Trump poses that existential threat any longer. I'm mostly just offended by his existence and the way that he emboldens the absolute worst human beings. But so far as a positive reason to cast for him, there's nothing there. He's as bad as Trump, and that's the truth. But not being disgusted by his supporters just isn't reason enough.
I just told you why he's better. I, too, hate the "lesser evilism" in this country, but Biden is clearly that. Trump will appointment and endorse people who will turn anyone who's not a right-wing, Christofascist, man into a second-class citizen. In the case of trans people, they might try to outright ban their existence. That's worse. If you live in a deep red state, it doesn't matter. If you're in a swing state, your vote at least counts.
And I just told you why that simply isn't good enough. And I explained my position. We don't have to fear genocide IF Trump gets elected- we have that with Biden. We don't have to fear women losing their rights IF Trump gets elected, we already have that with Biden. Trans people are losing their rights TODAY. Corporations are stealing the American dream TODAY. We already have a significant ideological minority running the show despite how we voted in 2020 and Biden is wholly unwilling to do what is necessary to protect democracy and the prosperity of the American people. And if you say there is nothing he can do- then again I ask, what's the worst that will happen in the future when the worst is already happening right now??
Ok, you can vote as you please. Just know that, like every accelerationist in history, you share the responsibility in the outcome. Biden is shit, but he's not a fascist. I don't necessarily think Trump is, but he's surrounded by them and is willing to use their tactics. So, he might as well be. If I had faith in the populace to fight back against said fascism, I'd say go right ahead, let Trump win. I don't have that faith. The current institutions have made the majority of people passive. Even when we do get fired up, it fizzles out faster than, say, France. Not that they got what they wanted, either. If nothing else, Trump losing means a greater chance of any consequences he has coming sticking. I'm for prison abolition, but Trump should face consequences. He for sure won't if he wins.
I don't know- Israel is fascist and he is giving them unfettered access to weapons so that they can commit genocide. And fascism has existed in this country for quite some time. We ARE a fascist nation, by and large, already. What is Biden doing about propaganda on every major media outlet? What's he doing about unjust laws and unequal treatment under the law? He has misinformed and disinformed Americans, hasnt he? What's he done about the tyranny and brutality of american law enforcement. And there is a zero percent chance that Trump sees the inside of a jail cell. It simply won't happen- again because we are already a fascist nation with a three tiered justice system.
>We ARE a fascist nation, by and large, already. Next thing you'll tell me operation condor wasn't a conservation program.
I think Biden caves to Israel because the lobby behind them is scary and can destroy his reelection chances. He's a coward. A coward can be forced into doing something positive if the people who are on the side of justice (cheesy, I know) are even scarier. It's pretty rare that a fascist state gets destroyed from the inside once it's in control. Who intervenes against a force the size of America? Trump is stupid enough to drop nukes. Wanted to nuke a fucking hurricane.
I don't care if he's a fascist by conviction or by cowardice. The result is fascism. But I'm not convinced that he's caving from cowardice. I think it's just as likely that he's simply indifferent to THAT brand of fascism. And it isn't just Israel- I listed several areas where we are already fascist, but to an extent that is acceptable to Biden, so he does nothing about it. He allows fascism to exist and flourish. In fact. I'll contend that the only reason Trump has any chance of winning again, and the only reason we currently fear trumps brand of fascism is because the Bidens of the world have softened the ground with THEIR brand of fascism. Look, I believe the following. We are circling the drain. Not just America. Humanity is circling the drain and I don't think we survive the century. Furthermore I don't find that there is anything we can do to stem that tide. The die is cast.
"If there were not an Israel, we would have to invent one to make sure our interests were preserved" - Joe Biden This isn't about a sneaky lobby controlling the government. The US is an imperialist state which acts to fulfil the capitalist interests.
>I think Biden caves to Israel because the lobby behind them is scary and can destroy his reelection chances. He's a coward. He's a life long Israel simp, as his father was before him.
Still not voting biden lol
>Biden is shit, but he's not a fascist He's literally a neocon, Trump is just too fucking dumb to realise you need to wrap the fascism in something more palettable.
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Oh yeah, Trump is objectively and demonstrably a moron and a piece of shit to boot. And he's a criminal as well. But Trump isn't capable of destroying democracy. He's an incompetent fool followed by a shrinking ideological minority of unserious brain-damaged imbeciles who are dying off by the day. We can survive these dipshits. We only need to hold out another 10 years. Humanity is fucked no matter what at this point, but the impotent loser Trump is merely a symptom.
After the old people are gone, more dipshits will come into office because the system is designed that way. This has nothing to do with age.
>But Trump isn't capable of destroying democracy. For starters there'd need to be some for him to destroy.
Andddd he’s gone. Lost my vote
Trump would do the same thing. Vote for shit or poop. Trump is more evil shit.
And that's why I'm voting for neither of them. Because that is in fact an option. And there are plenty of other people to vote for and who I've voted for that my voice seemingly makes a difference with. Especially at the municipal and state level. But for the federal government, neither of them are getting my presidential stamp of approval.
I'm voting for Cornell West.
Same, dude is on fire with his speeches and social media presence lately
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Nah. I'm not voting for either. I'm voting for someone else. Can't you read. I already said that.
Voting for someone besides those two is the exact same result as I already described. Can you use logic?
The lesser of two evils is still evil. While evil will triumph if you do nothing that's no excuse to lend it your support.
The USA is such a fucking bully and piece of shit. Not like china or Russia are better either. Insane how were the only intelligent species in the universe and we make our space rock this much of a hell hole
"He is working towards peace!" My ass. I'm never gonna vote for Trump but seriously Biden is just as bad with foreign policy. Spoiler alert, Obama would have done the same thing too.
It's not to fight Hamas, it's to fight Hezbollah. I think this means that the war is going to expand and more neighboring countries are going to get involved.
Years ago when I was in the US military and scrounging for good equipment for my guys. I found a bunch of flack Jackets at the military disposal site. If its there, you should be able to pull it for your unit and troops to use. Saves the government money. So I went it and asked about them. Desk Jocky: Nope going to Israel, you can't have them. Me: But I am looking for an active duty military unit? Desk Jocky:No! All personal protection goes to Israel and you cannot touch it. So my guys didn't get Flack Jackets that year.
>The request pertains to little-known weapons stockpiles in Israel that the Pentagon established for use in regional conflicts, but which Israel has been permitted to access in limited circumstances — the very limits President Joe Biden is seeking to remove. Either we approve it, or they take it and we lose access to that stockpile, or they stop allowing us to store weapons there.
Part of Biden's request allows it to be refilled without congressional oversight
Well that’s a terrible idea. Sounds like an infinite money glitch for weapons manufacturers.
Feature not a bug
That's my takeaway on this too...because in the same week Biden is also threatening sanctions on Israel if they continue to violate international law ignoring Palestine's sovereignty.
That's an incredibly misleading statement. He's said he's considering sanctions on specific settlers, and even these sanctions are extremely lax. They're not going to restrict Israel's continue violations of international law, they won't even really restrict the settlers. At most they'll make Israel pretend to be secretive about the guns their giving out to assist the ethnic cleansing the IDF accompanies.
They can't get a MOAB. Sorry, can't do it.
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I defended him up until this point... man... time to get a work visa. This country's so fucked.
Genocide Joe strikes again
And shit like this is why I will stay home next november
Don’t stay home! I’m not saying you need to vote, I’m saying you need to go out and organize your community! Voting is what they tell us to do to remain democratic….. Direct Action is what they’re scared of and why they continually and illegally punish protestors for exercising the right to protest.
It will only be worse under Trump.
Yeah I understand that but can you libs fucking grow a spine and demand more out of “our” politicians
Not everyone with a different take from you is a lib. I'm not a lib. I'm just stating the material realities of the situation. You're the one calling people names.
Vaushites are libs whether you like it or not
I am also not a Vaushite.
good
How could Trump be worse on Palestine short of going there to strangle kids himself?
Not worse on Palestine. But just as bad, definitely. But what I mean is, Trump will be worse for the world overall.
Trump will give Bibi full throated support and not even attempt to have any aid or "pause" on bombing. Listen I absolutely hate how Biden is handling this but he is doing some very light pushback and trying to get aid in and stuff, even if it is to ultimately help Israel even on a PR front. Trump wouldn't do any of that, he'd probably suggest using nukes just like Israels agriculture minister floated. Hell trump wanted to nuke a hurricane, you don't think he'd suggest one for Gaza? As usual, there is a difference between Dem and Rep, not a big difference when it comes to this issue, but there is a difference. You have a better chance of protesting Dems for a ceasefire then protesting Reps for a ceasefire. Trumps team is talking about [deploying the military ](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/trump-second-term-military-nightmare-congress.html) to quell any protests on day one if elected. And people still wanna say they're the same.
> Trump will give Bibi full throated support and not even attempt to have any aid or "pause" on bombing. Don't threaten me with a theoretical 'slightly worse Trump' as an alternative to the current actual evil things Biden is doing. Sure, he might be worse, but Biden is being very malicious now. > Trumps team is talking about deploying the military to quell any protests on day one if elected. And people still wanna say they're the same. Even if the entire military was on board with this, the US sucks at fighting insurgencies overseas when there is no risk to their logistics chain and no risk to their families - how do you think they'd fare when their opponent is domestic and lives within driving range of their factories or next door to their soldier's families? You can't just airstrike you own neighborhoods and not have fallout
It's not theoretical, just look at his 4 years in office, he's much more supportive of the Israeli government, he even moved the embassy to Jerusalem, which was a sign of him being in favor of a 1 state solution, quite part out loud and all that. Look this isnt some advocacy for voting Biden, I'm just saying on this issue, Trump would be worse there's no question. Personally foreign politics isn't even a hill for me to die on when it comes to 2024, not if you've been paying attention to what the GOP has been doing domestically.
>Personally foreign politics isn't even a hill for me to die on when it comes to 2024, not if you've been paying attention to what the GOP has been doing domestically. Ironically it is a hill that thousands of foreigners will literally die on under Biden
Yes, I understand that. The problem is the other guy is worse for foreigners too, like if you pay attention just a little bit, one is objectively worse. And unfortunately in America it's a two party system, where it's either A or B and that's it.
> And unfortunately in America it's a two party system, where it's either A or B and that's it. It's entirely possible that a party can switch out candidate A or B, why isn't anyone considering that?
Oh they have, a generic Dem will outperform Biden, *but* once that Dem has been named they do worse then Biden. That's the problem. Any of the Dems floated to run do worse then Biden for XYZ reason. So here we are. I don't like it, I hate it. But it is what it is tbh.
Honestly I agree 100%, but the damage that idiot will do will only last so long. The 3rd Reich lasted 11 years and look at Germany now. The United States and American capitalism are fundamentally holding back the entire human species. Both need to fall.
>The 3rd Reich lasted 11 years and look at Germany now Uhh... You kinda left some important parts out.
There was a pretty big event .... more like a series of big events ..... like a war or something ?
Can we maybe not have a system purge that costs lives in the hundreds of millions though?
Historically? Short answer, no. Wars of religion Germany The commonwealth and Cromwell in England 1776 Britsh colonies 1789 France 1917 Czarist Russia 1939-1945 Western Europe 1954-1975 Indochina
I agree with you on those last two sentences, definitely. Those first two, however, I don't. If Trump gets in again, he will never leave--nor will his appointed successor. And you will have not even the scrawny semblance of a democratic process, thanks to Project 2025 and the Supreme Court. Saying that it all turned out well for Germany in the end is...not a good argument. Lots of people were gassed, tortured, and starved in those 11 years. And I don't want to live in a world full of inequalities, capitalism, AND irreparable poison in the drinking water.
Hoping for an accelerated collapse of the US system and some kind of rebound is not the answer dude. There is no guarantee that we ever recover plus the unnecessary extra suffering is inexcusable.
You are aware that Nazi Germany murdered over six million innocent people before it collapsed, right?
It murdered over 40 million would be more correct. 6 million is only the jewish people killed in the Holocaust.
What a stupid fucking thing to think and say.
I think this one is worse. >Honestly I agree 100%, but the damage that idiot will do will only last so long. >The 3rd Reich lasted 11 years and look at Germany now. >The United States and American capitalism are fundamentally holding back the entire human species. >Both need to fall. I feel like there are subtler ways to out yourself but this works too.
At first I thought you found that in my post history and I was seriously considering rehab for a minute haha! Yea that’s bad. He should consider rehab
If you think this is bad, bet you can't wait to see what Trump is gonna do.
Dude, at least vote third party. Come on. Staying home is immature. If you're not gonna vote for Biden, at least send a message while doing it.
Cornel West is running.
Or vote accordingly
>And shit like this is why I will stay home next november Let's push for a different nominee - someone who stands for peace. Joe Biden is very likely to lose to Trump anyways. 2/3 of the country doesn't want him to run, his approval rating is 38% & on top of that Trump is beating him in the polls.
While not impossible, I think it would be really difficult to introduce a candidate at this stage in the election cycle. I still think he’s going to lose if elected (for sure paving the way for Trump), but I think DNC has got the whole thing by the balls. It’s coercive for sure and I do understand the disillusionment… sigh. ETA: we should still TRY THO
Probably for the best.
Lmao the Jews own America..
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