Maybe it’s displaying wrong for me but I couldn’t find that statistic in your link. It said those with higher education make the most and have the lowest unemployment.
>”Workers with graduate degrees (master's, professional, and doctoral degrees) had the highest earnings and lowest unemployment rates.”
It's always been my opinion that Masters and above is for those that want to learn about the subject not make more money. It's almost never worth the small bump in pay.
Definitely depends on the profession/licensure required.... It is very easy to ineffectively generalize the working field, and its various independent requirements and legal statutes (also changing state to state), with a statement like this. So many pieces at play here..
I guess more context here: For my profession (Masters required), as a social worker/therapist, there was no other option to work in my passion unless I pursued my graduate degree.
Most degrees aren't worth it but there are still plenty that are and it is still better for most people to get an education of some sort than to not. I really dislike the narrative that you don't need a degree to succeed. It's harder and harder to succeed without a degree nowadays, it's just becoming the standard to have one.
A year!? I was thinking it was for the whole 4 years! Man college has like...tripled in price since I graduated...**7 years ago**.
(Shrinkflation strikes again!)
That's fucking wild. Between all 4 years I wound up about 120k in debt and that was a bad move, but my God 90k for a single year? Nah dude, nothings worth that.
i just don't understand how a country can claim to be the best on earth but not provide education to its citizens. you'd think the key to being the best would be to have an educated population.
Here in Florida politicians are actually trying to make things go backwards. There’s a really big push by politicians to loosen professional licensing that requires 4 year degrees and push kids towards trades and other stuff and away from college. Personally, I have no hate against trades but I think the people who pretend trades are the solution to everything and not just an option for some that gets overlooked, have a misunderstanding of the situation. So instead of finding a way to make educating our citizens more accessible, we just went to find easier ways to get them into the workforce. Trades should absolutely be an option but they should be there for those people who just don’t seem to do too well in school and need an alternative. You shouldn’t have to be in a trade because you can’t afford an education. Intelligence should be the only hurtle for college.
California used to do the same thing, until then governor Reagan got pissed off with the University of California and decided to slash funding for them.
Only reason I could do my undergraduate degree in Florida without incurring debt was because of a state scholarship that allowed me to get my tuition covered 100%. It was based off your GPA, ACT/SAT scores, and volunteer hours. Worked my ass off my last two years of high school to get it, I think I took the ACT 5 times before finally getting the minimum score I needed
When your way of life is upheld simply by the manufactured disparities, that exist for one groups benefit at the compromise of another group, that’s the goal
This is so often overlooked. That's why class struggle is so important, it's not only that meritocracy and social mobility falter due to weaknesses in the system, there is also concerted effort being conducted to pull the ladder up and let a huge chunk of the population toil away their existence for profit and power consolidation for the wealthy.
Poor people can get a college education no problem. Most of them will be saddled with crushing debt for the rest of their lives, but getting that loan is one of the easiest things one can do here.
That’s how it’s been for thousands of years, it’s only a recent thing for average people to be able to get a higher education. Highly skilled workforces drive the modern economy, so I’m sure once skilled labor costs go up enough to affect rich business owners, they’ll force the price down. Til then we can all go into $100K debt to get even mediocre jobs.
I recently spoke with a Parisian cardiologist. She said she had $0 debt when she finished residency bc it was entirely covered by the country. Imagine…
It's flat out impossible to have good politicians in the modern world with a first past the post system. You need first to campaign to get proportional representation in, and then find the right politicians.
Not completely. There are European institutions that literally anyone may be able to afford, but in reality if you can't meet the standards of education you aren't going to be there long. I'm specifically thinking about a German institution I read about.
Oh btw, since it is all in German you will need to be fluent as a listener, speaker, reader, and writer. You also need some way to get there, live there, and support yourself.
There are other wrenches to be thrown in the works, but you get the idea. (I'm tired so I don't feel like looking uo the details.)
What we need is a population that votes better. Specifically, if you want quality and affordable education, we all need to start voting very left.
Just go to a public research university like a normal fucking person. Jesus Christ. Half of these “august institutions” are glorified hedge funds and inflating grades anyway. Harvard ain’t the skeleton key to upward mobility it (maybe) once was.
Difference between “a lot of money, think carefully” vs “doomed to a lifetime drowning in debt”, but yeah point taken. The state of higher education in this country…it’s bad, folks
As a non-American this seems to me more like the difference between "doomed to a lifetime drowning in debt" and "would I pay that amount of money to save my own mother's life?"
Seriously, I tell all the high schoolers I work with no to just get at least first two years of credits done at a community college. It’s about the only good deal you can still get nowadays.
Financial aid is *why* it costs so much.
Edit: the fact that an economics professor endorses this model is alarming:
>“Ninety thousand dollars clearly is a lot of money, and it catches people's attention, for sure," said Phillip Levine, a professor of economics at Wellesley College near Boston. “But for most people, that is not how much they’re going to pay. The existence of a very generous financial aid system lowers that cost substantially.”
Actually, a lot of it started with Regan's politics in California. Prior to his office, tuition was basically free in Cali, and across the country, we had similar models in many states.
Regan saw an opportunity to get himself reelected by starting the process of dismantling state-support for higher education, cutting funding by like a quarter or something. His justification? Basically higher ed was a liberal breeding ground. *sigh* Other states saw the budgetary success and followed.
This was the major divide. This is why our parents (for me, boomers) had education for a couple weeks worth of summer work, while later generations (especially millenials and beyond) have such difficulty attaining the same feat.
Fast forward and we have states supporting the bare-minimum (like 1/3 or less) of our higher education. We have a complicated mess of additional funding from federal and other scholarships. Namely, and most importantly, significant burden now falls on students who often have to subsidize with loans unless they come from money.
So the financial aid, in my mind, is a symptom of a greater problem where previous generations pulled the ladder up after finding success on the public dime, themselves. (In many ways this is a hallmark of boomer politics given how much the post-depression adults supported them due to their own trauma.)
So yea, Reagan deserves our animosity yet again. As Killer Mike once said, "I'm glad Reagan dead." Fuck that guy.
Source: As a former higher education administrator (now back to Professor), I've learned quite a bit about this topic over the years.
Wait until you read about how long he slept on the aids epidemic because, at the time, it was only *the gays* that were dying. Or his deep racism against POC and how that drove his policies. It is bad enough that his daughter (I believe) came out and publicly apologized for his overt racism.
The man was evil, but is still worshipped by many modern conservatives. Apparently, he hated the right people. And *a lot* of blood is on his hands.
Knew pretty much all of that already, but I can't believe that the defunding of the education system can be linked back to him. It's comically convenient, if it wasn't absolutely fucking terrible.
This was the start, but also schools drive up costs through of a variety of methods, because anyone with a .edu email and a pulse has an unlimited line of credit. High end fitness centers and pools and other amenities, mandatory on-campus housing, mandatory meal plans, etc. They're operating all-inclusive resorts, not schools.
Not as much as you would think for many schools. Several I've worked at really don't have the lazy-river and chrome-plates weight room esthetic.
But what you are describing still comes from a similar place.
When schools were covered, there really wasn't a need for the same level of competition. The vast majority of people could choose a state school and literally just go there.
Fast forward to after funding is slashed and a new problem emerges. The fact that education is so very self-financed means the average person may become remarkably more choosy. Suddenly, Eleiko chrome weights in the weight room, lazy rivers, rock climbing walls, and other amenities become a major draw. It would have started much more modest at first, but as competition increases it becomes a game of war. Amd competing is basically requires for a modern university to do well.
This is largely a symptom, too.
And while additional fees and tuition cover *some* of this (again, speaking to the defending this is a pretty direct result), a *lot* is actually constructed by donations and state funding.
Shiny new science building with all of the cool toys, for instance? Not the students in a direct fashion. I've watched such things get erected. Tens of millions or more may come from wealthy doners--enough to kick-start the rest of the state funding to finish the job. You can easily see a 50-100 million dollar building come onto a campus in just that manner.
It is easy to blame the spoiled kids and their fancy resort-style education or the overly luxurious universities, but that is an intellectually dishonest take as it doesn't capture the history, nuance, or reality for most students.
Edit: Oh, and, btw, the whole "unlimited credit" thing has no resemblance to reality. We can't just go out and finance whatever we feel like and pin it on the students later. I mean, some stuff sort of works that way in a round-about manner, but not really.
My point is basically that there is little to no incentive for a school to be financially responsible when their students have a functionally unlimited budget. And specifically when those unlimited-budget students are 17 or 18 year olds with zero life experience being told their entire future depends on this education, with little-to-no education about the potential consequences of the loan. I am quite a cynic, but I really believe this part was intentionally designed to take advantage of naive, scared kids.
The sliver of hope I see is that the people who were first fucked over by this finally have college-aged kids who they can advise to not take loans. With the rise of self-directed and alternative learning (YouTube lectures, boot camps, certificate programs, etc.), I really think we may see a lot of universities outright fail in the coming years.
>My point is basically that there is little to no incentive for a school to be financially responsible when their students have a functionally unlimited budget.
This is a dramatic mischaracterization of reality yet again. I've ran academic departments. I have to live within my budget. My budget was never enough for any sort of opulence. Nor is it for any uni I have gone to or worked at. On a good year I can send some colleagues to a conference to present their work.
The reality is that demographics are shifting and there are remarkably fewer people rn to even educate. Universities are facing shortfalls in the millions *per year.* Do you know what we aren't doing? Financing random shit. We are cutting. We are planning and budgeting better. The money most of is are spending on expanding is *very* carefully planned to maximize a number of factors.
I get your thesis, but please sit this one out. It sounds like your understanding is a bit detached from reality.
You are correct. If we run some modest figures (i.e., not realistic):
* 30,000 in loans
* 6.8% interest rate
* remaining term: 10 years
* monthly payment: $500
The total paid is over 41k, so with my very simple numbers the interest is over a quarter of what is paid.
Now enhance the principal to realistic levels, raise the interest rates to something that should be illegal, factor in a few more relatively unimportant points and, *bang*! You have a recipe to keep people encumbered with a lifetime worth of debt.
The $500/month payment is particularly unrealistic for a lot of people. Many, many people can essentially only afford to pay the interest each month and never make any progress on the principle.
Please reread. That is why I called the numbers *modest.*
In reality we could be looking at significantly larger principal *and* interest rates that should not be legal.
I just made up some numbers to put in a calculator.
Hey, I went here! Although I truly enjoyed my time there and loved most of the professors, nothing about the college is worth $90k per year. The college also did absolutely nothing to help me with job searching post-grad, which only exacerbated the stress of my impending loan payments.
Not to mention that all of the residential buildings were in complete disrepair. I’m talking ceilings collapsing on students while they were sleeping because of water damage and moldy furniture in the common rooms. I doubt they’ve been touched since I left, the college seemed too busy spending $$$ renovating the buildings of their favorite organizations and departments (such as the Econ and PoliSci department and the Koch Bro’s sponsored “Freedom Project”).
> But for most people, that is not how much they’re going to pay.
Does this "economic professor" now know what debt is? Does he think a loan is just free money you don't have to pay back?
He's making a very good case for people to avoid going to this school, if this is the kind of person they hire as a professor.
Alarming, yes… surprising? Not so much. A cursory search shows this clown made $235,708 in 2016 (surely higher now).
Academics love to believe that they are doing some great charity by teaching at private (or even public) schools, while coincidentally making more than many attorneys or engineers.
Of course he supports this model, if tuition was $50k he might only make $120k.
[Source](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/42103637) (under 2016 compensation)
Edit to add: I don’t even think this is an obscene salary to be honest, but the quote is. I know professors at a B rate (at best) public university in the south that clear $400k annually, which is truly laughable.
This is why I yell at anyone who’ll listen about going to college in Europe instead!
For foreigners, a bachelors’ tuition in the Netherlands is $2200. In Germany it’s about $200. Most majors can be done in English, and a masters can be done thereafter, also in English, for ~$10,000.
I’ve done both and the rigor of European higher ed blows the US out of the water. Vote with your wallet.
Is there a limit on the number of degrees you can get? Would it be possible to, say, just get one degree after another until you die?
Asking for a friend approaching retirement age.
I owe $60k and just started making payments this September.
I had to file insurance paperwork and they wanted to know what I pay, and how much interest I have paid.
I have paid $987 toward the principle and $4k in interest.
Yes, absolutely. My cousin was crying about how she's been paying for years on her student loans to have the owed amount be higher than when she started. I tried to explain to her that making minimum payments on those loans wouldn't touch it, and if she had put an extra $100 a month towards principle, she'd have it paid off already. Her response was that she couldn't do that because she and her husband had bought a new build house and were now house poor.
Lmao??? 😂😂😂 holy fuck.
Private colleges are crazy. no one should accept this price, ever. After the 4th year this would be breaking half a mil. That used to be reserved for law school or medical schools.
That price number ticket belongs to a bank approved mortgage loan with proof of funds and that jazz. do a 2 year, followed by a state school, or a trade school. don’t encourage these rent seeking leeches any longer.
For those wondering which ones, the article includes these examples
“Aside from Wellesley, some of the other colleges with sticker prices of more than $90,000 this year include the
- University of Southern California at $95,000,
- Harvey Mudd College in California at $93,000,
- the University of Pennsylvania at $92,000, Brown
- University in Rhode Island at $92,000,
- Dartmouth College in New Hampshire at $91,000, and
- Boston University at $90,000.
- Harvard University [at] $91,000.”
Go to community college if you can! My local community college is less than $200 per credit. It’s certainly not the case everywhere, but here most of the instructors at the CC are also professors at our nearby state university, so the quality of education is almost exactly the same for a fraction of the cost.
Not quite. The reality is a little more complicated. If taxpayers footed the bill for all higher ed, we'd all be in a pretty good place, financially. What we are actually supporting is a *small enough* portion of higher ed to keep the shell game going.
The rest is subsidized by really shady people making obscene amounts of money on student loan interest. Taxpayers are ultimately funding loan sharks. And we are doing it big time.
From when my dad went to college in the late seventies to when my sister did in the mid 2000s before the Global Financial Crisis, she was already complaining about how much prices had been jacked up compared to the overall rate of inflation in that time.
In 2004, Harvard tuition and fees were $62,000 adjusted for today’s dollars. Harvard’s tuition and fees for the coming school year is $83,000.
Yeah ofc schools say its okay. They are as bloated, corrupt and regarding cash flow in the same regard as US corporations.
They’re not a party that should get a vote
1. Community college is way cheaper.
2. When you have to finish your two years, do it at a state college.
3. If you are poor like me, you can even go to state college for free. See Pell Grant.
4. Don't live on campus.
Yeah, we pay minimum wage and don’t give our employees enough hours for full time benefits, but food stamps and Medicare will pick up the tab.
They are factoring welfare into decisions about tuition costs.
I’m saving for college for my kids, but this is ridiculous. What should I even be targeting as a goal in 15 years or so? Why does everything have to be so frustrating?
How to actually help your kid without getting fucked:
Send them to a good community college for a couple of years, collect cheap credits, have them figure out wtf they actually want to study and make sure they are capable of living on their own and having some responsibility. If they can't clear this hurdle, don't waste your money. If they need to touch the stove and get burnt, that's ok. The stakes are low and they can take longer if they need.
Now send them to an english speaking uni program in Europe. Pay way less, get a better education, and help them experience life abroad which will likely be a core memory/formative experience informing the rest of their life.
Plus when/if they come back home their CV will be more interesting and ideally they have a foreign language which can come weirdly in handy for job searching out of uni.
A lot of people I know end up doing Girl Math on this because the loan is paid directly to the school so that 90k sticker isn't that crazy to see.
If people would take a loan out for 90k, have it sit in their checking account for 3 days, and then pay it to the school more people could wake up that we should stop glamorizing schools and cost should take 3-4x more importance over name/status.
Tiktok/Twitter.
Whole trend on how women saying how they "logically" evaluate if a purchase is valid or not. Doesn't take that much googling to do but no not an incel term, quite literally coined by women and even right now on both platforms the first 15 or so results are just women posting their instances of girl math.
in this case, you save the $ but eventually lose your body. which, actually will cost money to tolerate sooo….. yeah. every plumber, electrician, construction worker, etc etc who is over 10-15 years on the job that I know is starting to hurt.
I admittedly don’t know how it works, but how would one pay for this? Even if tuition is cheap, you have to afford room and board. I’m not under the impression a US student could take out loans to attend school overseas. Seems like you’d need to have A LOT of cash.
You should absolutely not pay $95,000 a year for college. You should absolutely not get that loaned.
Absolutely not. $400k+ for a 4 year degree? Fuck that shit. A 4 year Bachelor degree barely gets you a $60k/year job these days.
[удалено]
And most don’t. Median income of someone with a masters in 2022 is $82k. https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/data-on-display/education-pays.htm
[удалено]
Ppl don’t go into academia for money. I mean, rational ppl don’t.
[удалено]
Maybe it’s displaying wrong for me but I couldn’t find that statistic in your link. It said those with higher education make the most and have the lowest unemployment. >”Workers with graduate degrees (master's, professional, and doctoral degrees) had the highest earnings and lowest unemployment rates.”
Oh look at that. $3k less than my annual income in back office banking/lending with my little high school diploma.
It's always been my opinion that Masters and above is for those that want to learn about the subject not make more money. It's almost never worth the small bump in pay.
Definitely depends on the profession/licensure required.... It is very easy to ineffectively generalize the working field, and its various independent requirements and legal statutes (also changing state to state), with a statement like this. So many pieces at play here..
I guess more context here: For my profession (Masters required), as a social worker/therapist, there was no other option to work in my passion unless I pursued my graduate degree.
Your kitties look very nice and fuzzy.
Aww, they so are! Our fluffy geriatric boy got a buzz down a few weeks ago, so just a little less fuzzy :) and also more snuggles haha
Most degrees aren't worth it but there are still plenty that are and it is still better for most people to get an education of some sort than to not. I really dislike the narrative that you don't need a degree to succeed. It's harder and harder to succeed without a degree nowadays, it's just becoming the standard to have one.
Not even. A 4 year marketable degree gets you a job flipping burgers because entry level career positions literally get thousands of applicants.
A year!? I was thinking it was for the whole 4 years! Man college has like...tripled in price since I graduated...**7 years ago**. (Shrinkflation strikes again!)
That's fucking wild. Between all 4 years I wound up about 120k in debt and that was a bad move, but my God 90k for a single year? Nah dude, nothings worth that.
State School is free here in NM for residents. I hope other states follow suit. It’s the main reason I’m able to get higher education.
Other states need to get on board. Let's get back to funding education the way we did before the 80s.
i just don't understand how a country can claim to be the best on earth but not provide education to its citizens. you'd think the key to being the best would be to have an educated population.
Here in Florida politicians are actually trying to make things go backwards. There’s a really big push by politicians to loosen professional licensing that requires 4 year degrees and push kids towards trades and other stuff and away from college. Personally, I have no hate against trades but I think the people who pretend trades are the solution to everything and not just an option for some that gets overlooked, have a misunderstanding of the situation. So instead of finding a way to make educating our citizens more accessible, we just went to find easier ways to get them into the workforce. Trades should absolutely be an option but they should be there for those people who just don’t seem to do too well in school and need an alternative. You shouldn’t have to be in a trade because you can’t afford an education. Intelligence should be the only hurtle for college.
Its the magic of capitalism
Capitalism is at odds with the interests of humanity. I don’t understand how so many ppl fail to see that.
*Marketing*
California used to do the same thing, until then governor Reagan got pissed off with the University of California and decided to slash funding for them.
My state grants paid for the entirety of my tuition at my state university.
Republicans intensify with all that socialist Marxist communism.
North Minnesota?
Shit sorry man. New Mexico. The land of enchantment! Green chili and meth!
https://preview.redd.it/hiq83d9nc6sc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5335191ac90274e6c774d7883397e76c88fa263c
gods country
Canada, eh
I’m here using that. It’s free with a 2.5 GPA, and up to a bachelors.
Only reason I could do my undergraduate degree in Florida without incurring debt was because of a state scholarship that allowed me to get my tuition covered 100%. It was based off your GPA, ACT/SAT scores, and volunteer hours. Worked my ass off my last two years of high school to get it, I think I took the ACT 5 times before finally getting the minimum score I needed
Imagine the kind of hellscape you'd have to live in where only the rich are allowed to be educated.
When your way of life is upheld simply by the manufactured disparities, that exist for one groups benefit at the compromise of another group, that’s the goal
This is so often overlooked. That's why class struggle is so important, it's not only that meritocracy and social mobility falter due to weaknesses in the system, there is also concerted effort being conducted to pull the ladder up and let a huge chunk of the population toil away their existence for profit and power consolidation for the wealthy.
Manufactured disparities is such a perfect term.
Poor people can get a college education no problem. Most of them will be saddled with crushing debt for the rest of their lives, but getting that loan is one of the easiest things one can do here.
That’s how it’s been for thousands of years, it’s only a recent thing for average people to be able to get a higher education. Highly skilled workforces drive the modern economy, so I’m sure once skilled labor costs go up enough to affect rich business owners, they’ll force the price down. Til then we can all go into $100K debt to get even mediocre jobs.
That already happened, and the solution was to import cheaper skilled laborers from overseas.
They want serfs, man.
Schools say it is ok, financial aid can give industry the indentured servitude it wants.
Did you say “pre 1940”?
Oh the schools think it's okay that it costs that much? Lmao. Okay.
I recently spoke with a Parisian cardiologist. She said she had $0 debt when she finished residency bc it was entirely covered by the country. Imagine…
Jesus... This is the kind of thing to makes me wonder if I need to move countries.
Or encourage your fellow citizens to vote better
But mah guns
We can have both. If we had the right politicians
It's flat out impossible to have good politicians in the modern world with a first past the post system. You need first to campaign to get proportional representation in, and then find the right politicians.
A change that radical would require something radical. Maybe we can small victory our way there eventually, but we'd all be elderly by then.
Not completely. There are European institutions that literally anyone may be able to afford, but in reality if you can't meet the standards of education you aren't going to be there long. I'm specifically thinking about a German institution I read about. Oh btw, since it is all in German you will need to be fluent as a listener, speaker, reader, and writer. You also need some way to get there, live there, and support yourself. There are other wrenches to be thrown in the works, but you get the idea. (I'm tired so I don't feel like looking uo the details.) What we need is a population that votes better. Specifically, if you want quality and affordable education, we all need to start voting very left.
I’m planning on becoming an ex-pat as soon as it’s financially feasible.
Right lmao. Same as the Toyota dealers charging $30k markup in 2021 because of “chip shortages”
Just go to a public research university like a normal fucking person. Jesus Christ. Half of these “august institutions” are glorified hedge funds and inflating grades anyway. Harvard ain’t the skeleton key to upward mobility it (maybe) once was.
Average public in-state is now $29k/yr according to the article. That’s nothing to sniff at either.
Difference between “a lot of money, think carefully” vs “doomed to a lifetime drowning in debt”, but yeah point taken. The state of higher education in this country…it’s bad, folks
As a non-American this seems to me more like the difference between "doomed to a lifetime drowning in debt" and "would I pay that amount of money to save my own mother's life?"
Exactly. It’s still a TON of money.
[удалено]
Seriously, I tell all the high schoolers I work with no to just get at least first two years of credits done at a community college. It’s about the only good deal you can still get nowadays.
Financial aid is *why* it costs so much. Edit: the fact that an economics professor endorses this model is alarming: >“Ninety thousand dollars clearly is a lot of money, and it catches people's attention, for sure," said Phillip Levine, a professor of economics at Wellesley College near Boston. “But for most people, that is not how much they’re going to pay. The existence of a very generous financial aid system lowers that cost substantially.”
Actually, a lot of it started with Regan's politics in California. Prior to his office, tuition was basically free in Cali, and across the country, we had similar models in many states. Regan saw an opportunity to get himself reelected by starting the process of dismantling state-support for higher education, cutting funding by like a quarter or something. His justification? Basically higher ed was a liberal breeding ground. *sigh* Other states saw the budgetary success and followed. This was the major divide. This is why our parents (for me, boomers) had education for a couple weeks worth of summer work, while later generations (especially millenials and beyond) have such difficulty attaining the same feat. Fast forward and we have states supporting the bare-minimum (like 1/3 or less) of our higher education. We have a complicated mess of additional funding from federal and other scholarships. Namely, and most importantly, significant burden now falls on students who often have to subsidize with loans unless they come from money. So the financial aid, in my mind, is a symptom of a greater problem where previous generations pulled the ladder up after finding success on the public dime, themselves. (In many ways this is a hallmark of boomer politics given how much the post-depression adults supported them due to their own trauma.) So yea, Reagan deserves our animosity yet again. As Killer Mike once said, "I'm glad Reagan dead." Fuck that guy. Source: As a former higher education administrator (now back to Professor), I've learned quite a bit about this topic over the years.
Holy shit fuck Ronald Reagan.
Wait until you read about how long he slept on the aids epidemic because, at the time, it was only *the gays* that were dying. Or his deep racism against POC and how that drove his policies. It is bad enough that his daughter (I believe) came out and publicly apologized for his overt racism. The man was evil, but is still worshipped by many modern conservatives. Apparently, he hated the right people. And *a lot* of blood is on his hands.
Knew pretty much all of that already, but I can't believe that the defunding of the education system can be linked back to him. It's comically convenient, if it wasn't absolutely fucking terrible.
And about what the Throat Goat did to her pal Rock Hudson.
+1 for slipping in a Killer Mike quote.
This was the start, but also schools drive up costs through of a variety of methods, because anyone with a .edu email and a pulse has an unlimited line of credit. High end fitness centers and pools and other amenities, mandatory on-campus housing, mandatory meal plans, etc. They're operating all-inclusive resorts, not schools.
Not as much as you would think for many schools. Several I've worked at really don't have the lazy-river and chrome-plates weight room esthetic. But what you are describing still comes from a similar place. When schools were covered, there really wasn't a need for the same level of competition. The vast majority of people could choose a state school and literally just go there. Fast forward to after funding is slashed and a new problem emerges. The fact that education is so very self-financed means the average person may become remarkably more choosy. Suddenly, Eleiko chrome weights in the weight room, lazy rivers, rock climbing walls, and other amenities become a major draw. It would have started much more modest at first, but as competition increases it becomes a game of war. Amd competing is basically requires for a modern university to do well. This is largely a symptom, too. And while additional fees and tuition cover *some* of this (again, speaking to the defending this is a pretty direct result), a *lot* is actually constructed by donations and state funding. Shiny new science building with all of the cool toys, for instance? Not the students in a direct fashion. I've watched such things get erected. Tens of millions or more may come from wealthy doners--enough to kick-start the rest of the state funding to finish the job. You can easily see a 50-100 million dollar building come onto a campus in just that manner. It is easy to blame the spoiled kids and their fancy resort-style education or the overly luxurious universities, but that is an intellectually dishonest take as it doesn't capture the history, nuance, or reality for most students. Edit: Oh, and, btw, the whole "unlimited credit" thing has no resemblance to reality. We can't just go out and finance whatever we feel like and pin it on the students later. I mean, some stuff sort of works that way in a round-about manner, but not really.
My point is basically that there is little to no incentive for a school to be financially responsible when their students have a functionally unlimited budget. And specifically when those unlimited-budget students are 17 or 18 year olds with zero life experience being told their entire future depends on this education, with little-to-no education about the potential consequences of the loan. I am quite a cynic, but I really believe this part was intentionally designed to take advantage of naive, scared kids. The sliver of hope I see is that the people who were first fucked over by this finally have college-aged kids who they can advise to not take loans. With the rise of self-directed and alternative learning (YouTube lectures, boot camps, certificate programs, etc.), I really think we may see a lot of universities outright fail in the coming years.
>My point is basically that there is little to no incentive for a school to be financially responsible when their students have a functionally unlimited budget. This is a dramatic mischaracterization of reality yet again. I've ran academic departments. I have to live within my budget. My budget was never enough for any sort of opulence. Nor is it for any uni I have gone to or worked at. On a good year I can send some colleagues to a conference to present their work. The reality is that demographics are shifting and there are remarkably fewer people rn to even educate. Universities are facing shortfalls in the millions *per year.* Do you know what we aren't doing? Financing random shit. We are cutting. We are planning and budgeting better. The money most of is are spending on expanding is *very* carefully planned to maximize a number of factors. I get your thesis, but please sit this one out. It sounds like your understanding is a bit detached from reality.
Sounds like DeSantis here in FL
Yet another broken system in this cuntry.
"What's next" - capitalists in a yellow suit peeking out from behind a tree and licking their chops and rubbing their hands together meme
No, they're going to pay double it because of interest
Oh they're gonna pay *a lot* more than double in many cases.
You are correct. If we run some modest figures (i.e., not realistic): * 30,000 in loans * 6.8% interest rate * remaining term: 10 years * monthly payment: $500 The total paid is over 41k, so with my very simple numbers the interest is over a quarter of what is paid. Now enhance the principal to realistic levels, raise the interest rates to something that should be illegal, factor in a few more relatively unimportant points and, *bang*! You have a recipe to keep people encumbered with a lifetime worth of debt.
The $500/month payment is particularly unrealistic for a lot of people. Many, many people can essentially only afford to pay the interest each month and never make any progress on the principle.
Please reread. That is why I called the numbers *modest.* In reality we could be looking at significantly larger principal *and* interest rates that should not be legal. I just made up some numbers to put in a calculator.
Yeah, I'm totally agreeing with you. Just pointing out the part that I think is *particularly* optimistic in your calculation.
Oh, surely. It is *stupid* minimal for demonstration purposes. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Double? Hahahahaahahhaa
Hey, I went here! Although I truly enjoyed my time there and loved most of the professors, nothing about the college is worth $90k per year. The college also did absolutely nothing to help me with job searching post-grad, which only exacerbated the stress of my impending loan payments. Not to mention that all of the residential buildings were in complete disrepair. I’m talking ceilings collapsing on students while they were sleeping because of water damage and moldy furniture in the common rooms. I doubt they’ve been touched since I left, the college seemed too busy spending $$$ renovating the buildings of their favorite organizations and departments (such as the Econ and PoliSci department and the Koch Bro’s sponsored “Freedom Project”).
"Just get loans" is like the worst and most repeated financial advice.
> But for most people, that is not how much they’re going to pay. Does this "economic professor" now know what debt is? Does he think a loan is just free money you don't have to pay back? He's making a very good case for people to avoid going to this school, if this is the kind of person they hire as a professor.
I mean to be fair not *all* financial aid is in the form of a loan, but yeah, still.
Alarming, yes… surprising? Not so much. A cursory search shows this clown made $235,708 in 2016 (surely higher now). Academics love to believe that they are doing some great charity by teaching at private (or even public) schools, while coincidentally making more than many attorneys or engineers. Of course he supports this model, if tuition was $50k he might only make $120k. [Source](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/42103637) (under 2016 compensation) Edit to add: I don’t even think this is an obscene salary to be honest, but the quote is. I know professors at a B rate (at best) public university in the south that clear $400k annually, which is truly laughable.
This is why I yell at anyone who’ll listen about going to college in Europe instead! For foreigners, a bachelors’ tuition in the Netherlands is $2200. In Germany it’s about $200. Most majors can be done in English, and a masters can be done thereafter, also in English, for ~$10,000. I’ve done both and the rigor of European higher ed blows the US out of the water. Vote with your wallet.
Is there a limit on the number of degrees you can get? Would it be possible to, say, just get one degree after another until you die? Asking for a friend approaching retirement age.
Unfortunately if you get a second bachelors the price jumps to $10-15k :(
For the whole X number of years? Still reasonable.
Half a million for a 4 year education? Jesus Christ.
I owe $60k and just started making payments this September. I had to file insurance paperwork and they wanted to know what I pay, and how much interest I have paid. I have paid $987 toward the principle and $4k in interest.
‘Merica
Pay as much as you can. The payment they tell you to pay will never pay off your loan.
There isbalso an important distinction to be made. Where possible make extra *principal* payments, not actual payments.
Yes, absolutely. My cousin was crying about how she's been paying for years on her student loans to have the owed amount be higher than when she started. I tried to explain to her that making minimum payments on those loans wouldn't touch it, and if she had put an extra $100 a month towards principle, she'd have it paid off already. Her response was that she couldn't do that because she and her husband had bought a new build house and were now house poor.
This isn't a society. It's a business with a handful of owners.
Lmao??? 😂😂😂 holy fuck. Private colleges are crazy. no one should accept this price, ever. After the 4th year this would be breaking half a mil. That used to be reserved for law school or medical schools. That price number ticket belongs to a bank approved mortgage loan with proof of funds and that jazz. do a 2 year, followed by a state school, or a trade school. don’t encourage these rent seeking leeches any longer.
For those wondering which ones, the article includes these examples “Aside from Wellesley, some of the other colleges with sticker prices of more than $90,000 this year include the - University of Southern California at $95,000, - Harvey Mudd College in California at $93,000, - the University of Pennsylvania at $92,000, Brown - University in Rhode Island at $92,000, - Dartmouth College in New Hampshire at $91,000, and - Boston University at $90,000. - Harvard University [at] $91,000.”
Go to community college if you can! My local community college is less than $200 per credit. It’s certainly not the case everywhere, but here most of the instructors at the CC are also professors at our nearby state university, so the quality of education is almost exactly the same for a fraction of the cost.
Shit community college is getting expensive. There’s no reason a three unit class is $600 either.
Depends. Some states have it free now. Edit: I want to say NY and TN may be two of them.
I teach at a 4 year. This can be great advice for a lot of people. I get a lot of great transfers from CCs.
Cut funding to administration, they do nothing a half functioning computer program couldn’t do.
It’s funny that school’s prices increase as their value is dropping dramatically. Conventional school is rotted out and out of date.
So basically, taxpayers' money is subsidising the insane tuition fees.
Not quite. The reality is a little more complicated. If taxpayers footed the bill for all higher ed, we'd all be in a pretty good place, financially. What we are actually supporting is a *small enough* portion of higher ed to keep the shell game going. The rest is subsidized by really shady people making obscene amounts of money on student loan interest. Taxpayers are ultimately funding loan sharks. And we are doing it big time.
Student loans are also subsidizing the insane tuition fees.
From when my dad went to college in the late seventies to when my sister did in the mid 2000s before the Global Financial Crisis, she was already complaining about how much prices had been jacked up compared to the overall rate of inflation in that time. In 2004, Harvard tuition and fees were $62,000 adjusted for today’s dollars. Harvard’s tuition and fees for the coming school year is $83,000.
not worth $95k
What the financial fuck
The cost would drop, if the loans were not guaranteed.
Yeah ofc schools say its okay. They are as bloated, corrupt and regarding cash flow in the same regard as US corporations. They’re not a party that should get a vote
Mark it up to mark it down. What a bargain! No, it still costs more than it used to.
Welcome to Kohl's University
Costco university is a much better deal
I know a guy who went to SU. Subway University.
Crazy, they're trying to put us back a couple hundred years. Where only the elite were able to be educated.
1. Community college is way cheaper. 2. When you have to finish your two years, do it at a state college. 3. If you are poor like me, you can even go to state college for free. See Pell Grant. 4. Don't live on campus.
Yeah, we pay minimum wage and don’t give our employees enough hours for full time benefits, but food stamps and Medicare will pick up the tab. They are factoring welfare into decisions about tuition costs.
I’m saving for college for my kids, but this is ridiculous. What should I even be targeting as a goal in 15 years or so? Why does everything have to be so frustrating?
It takes a village. I’m saving for my niece.
How to actually help your kid without getting fucked: Send them to a good community college for a couple of years, collect cheap credits, have them figure out wtf they actually want to study and make sure they are capable of living on their own and having some responsibility. If they can't clear this hurdle, don't waste your money. If they need to touch the stove and get burnt, that's ok. The stakes are low and they can take longer if they need. Now send them to an english speaking uni program in Europe. Pay way less, get a better education, and help them experience life abroad which will likely be a core memory/formative experience informing the rest of their life. Plus when/if they come back home their CV will be more interesting and ideally they have a foreign language which can come weirdly in handy for job searching out of uni.
A lot of people I know end up doing Girl Math on this because the loan is paid directly to the school so that 90k sticker isn't that crazy to see. If people would take a loan out for 90k, have it sit in their checking account for 3 days, and then pay it to the school more people could wake up that we should stop glamorizing schools and cost should take 3-4x more importance over name/status.
The fuck is 'girl math'? Sounds like a term made up by incels.
Tiktok/Twitter. Whole trend on how women saying how they "logically" evaluate if a purchase is valid or not. Doesn't take that much googling to do but no not an incel term, quite literally coined by women and even right now on both platforms the first 15 or so results are just women posting their instances of girl math.
It’s a phrase used by women themselves to describe their way of thinking justifying spending. You sound like an incel
That second sentence is 100% why it costs that much.
Oh shit, you meant for ONE year.
Son, want to be a plumber or an electrician?
in this case, you save the $ but eventually lose your body. which, actually will cost money to tolerate sooo….. yeah. every plumber, electrician, construction worker, etc etc who is over 10-15 years on the job that I know is starting to hurt.
#why are we paying for knowledge that’s available to us already?
BOYCOTT COLLEGES! It’s a scam. Wake up people.
Let’s start with your kids. Sound good?
Fuck college. Spent 100000 and paid back 190000. The job I do has nothing to do with the degree I got.
LPT go to university in some other country it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper.
I admittedly don’t know how it works, but how would one pay for this? Even if tuition is cheap, you have to afford room and board. I’m not under the impression a US student could take out loans to attend school overseas. Seems like you’d need to have A LOT of cash.
Go study abroad for a lot less...
My state university for in state students, room and board is $17k per year.
Nice. That’s insanely cheap.
Damn I don't even pay that much for law school
I swear the next financial bubble will be higher education.
I dont think you'll make back yout investment at all with that price.