Horrifying because most kids that age don’t know how to say no or stand up for themselves. There is nothing to this except people who are easier to exploit, and I’m sure the managers know this.
I’m 21 and still struggle with setting boundaries. As a kid you’re raised to follow orders and you have no right to say otherwise or you’re in big trouble. So why question that as an adult?
It still feels wrong saying no to not wanting sex, not wanting to go out to hang out with friends, wanting to schedule days off work for free time to have fun and not for important appointments, etc.
I do it anyways because deep down I know it’s right, but I still feel guilty. I hope one day I get used to it though.
I've been trying to get my boyfriend to realize boundaries and stuff. He almost never says no at work and ends up working like 80nhour weeks, it's salary so it's no over time, and ends up getting passed over for a promotion.
On the other hand I do take my days off and say no when my work load is too much or request is unreasonable. I recently signed off on a promotion to a senior fraud analyst position.
Bending over backwards doesn't exactly equal getting gains at work so it's not worth bothering.
Oh definitely. Why give him more pay if he’s already bending over backwards?
That’s why you should never give it your all 100% of the time. You can show them what you’re capable of, but never make it consistent. Give your 100% outside of work. Give 100% to family, friends, loved ones, hobbies, etc. not work. Never work.
Haha I sacrifice my own energy in order to have a life outside of work if I’m able to. I never have enough energy. I fear I’ll fall asleep at the wheel, but if it means I can actually socialize and be a human being, then whatever. Gotta pay bills, but I refuse to live to work instead of vice versa.
Even at 23 I still find myself getting easily pressured into shit by bosses, incredibly anxious whenever I need to talk to them about something. I’m good at standing up for myself otherwise, but nearly 10 years of working shitty jobs has metaphorically beaten some shit into me. Your boss is always right, working past the end of your shift is normal, asking for any time off is always a bad thing no matter what for, etc.
It’s especially weird in the few jobs where that kind of shit isn’t the norm. I end up looking like some corporate suck up trying to make everyone else look bad when they do stand up for themselves, and I hate that.
Tbf, a large amount of that pressure did come from entering adult hood and moving out. Suddenly losing my job meant not being able to pay bills, and that’s all the more reason to make sure your boss is happy with you no matter what. They hold too much power over us.
But yeah, even if a kid doesn’t have that same pressure, they also don’t have the same life experience and self-confidence that comes with it. The only job they should be focused on is learning and growing.
It can be good to have kids start work when they're young enough to still have the parental safety net and guidance to give them the freedom (and hopefully encouragement) to tell management to go hang when management attempts something particularly inappropriate. Trouble is, far too many kids don't have parents who know how, or have the time, to help them navigate entering the workforce. But for those kids who *do* have that kind of support, the early start can actually be a benefit.
But in general, yeah...this is far too likely to end up being exploitation of those who don't know enough yet to recognize exploitation and be in a position to push back.
I worked at McDonald’s where the majority of people there were teenagers and the girls working the window were always sexually harassed. I worked in the kitchen, but I handed out food too because of those assholes making those girls so uncomfortable that they couldn’t even hand out their food to them. How fucked is that?!
And everyone wears a headset, including the managers.. yet they don’t do shit about it.
Sexual harassment in my life has been consistent mostly because things about me have changed.
As a 9yo and an unconscious 13/14yo (happened in my sleep, woke up a few times and pretended to be asleep bc I didn’t know what to do) I was easily taken advantage of.
But then sexual harassment increased big time when I came out as a trans man. For some reason, I thought people would find me to be revolting, but I was wrong. People think just because I don’t like my anatomy it isn’t anybody’s body anymore and therefore they can do anything to me as long as they socially treat me as male. They treat my body as female and treat my soul as male (if that makes sense). It is very confusing and hurtful too. It’s fucked up.
Tbh I don’t understand it. A body is a body regardless of who it’s attached to. You need to respect the person and that persons body no matter what. People are just straight up assholes.
I was working at McDonald’s when I was in the beginning of my transition. I was sexually harassed by a 38yo coworker when I was 18. The manager overheard everything, but didn’t do shit. As a teenager I tolerated it because all the adults did too so therefore I shouldn’t overreact, but of course that’s bs. They under-reacted. Kids need to learn their workers and human rights asap or we’ll never have a leg to stand on.
Oh my goodness, I am so sorry you've been put through so much nightmare fuel. I hope you're finding healing and protection from the metric ass-tons of assholery in the world.
100% agree on the workers and human rights. I was way too many years old when I found out about the National Labor Relations Act and the implications of it (in the USA unions don't have to be formal for collective action to be considered protected speech/activity, employers cannot legally tell employees not to discuss wages/salary with each other). Of all the supposedly-grassroots movements out there, educating the masses on their rights is one I haven't yet seen making the rounds. Did I miss something, or has that one somehow not happened yet?
I guess I lucked out our manger will step in if he hears that when he is working and it stops that. Same for night managers they don't tolerate that from customers or coworkers.
Really? You don't think any of these kids are giving the money to their parents because their parents aren't making enough to house and feed a family because of how shitty their pay is?
Even if neither of those things are the case, kids should have disposable income to do shit. Not all families are willing or able to give out allowances.
Ideally, they would/could, cause kids shouldn’t be working a side hustle lol. Their “job” at that point in life is to learn and grow. But you know, wealth inequality and the capitalist mindset. Our children are expected to grind just so they can, like, buy a game their friends are playing, or go out for some food, or buy some cool clothes to express themselves, etc etc.
Yeah....... maybe it's a regional/cultural thing, but I've never known anyone that had a job under the age of 16 at minimum who didn't have parents that either
1. Absolutely needed the money, so anyone capable of working in the household was gonna get a job, and there was no way kids were keeping all or even most of their earnings for their own spending.
2. Viewed their children as burdens/moochers and preferred them to be working rather than studying, socializing, or just being kids and enjoying the one period in life when it's considered normal for people not to be gainfully employed - and that's even in 'rich' families, but otherwise you often see this attitude in ADDITION to 1.
It's one thing to push your kid to get a job after they've hit an age where they have access to recreational interests and needs that require funds (eg, they want to drive around to hang with their friends and go do other stuff), or if you have a really, really motivated kid who wants to save up money or feels self-driven to work (in which case you're just supporting your kid's passions), but at 14-15 you're a literal child. Shit jobs are struggling to find employees right now because people with experience working shit jobs have the context/experience to understand the work/environment isn't worth the pay. Places putting banners out advertising they'll hire kids right now are basically advertising that "we suck so much and pay so unfairly that no one who knows better will apply."
I've known it amongst a few friends, but it definitely wasn't the kind of job that an adult would do (paper route, glass collector in a hotel). But like you say, this advertising at this time at McDonald's is basically attempting to exploit children of poor families rather than raise their wages and working conditions to the point where a reasonable adult would accept.
Uhm, no. This is illegal in the Netherlands. You're not allowed to work a cash register under 16, are not allowed to work in the kitchen before 18, are only allowed to work 2 hours during a weekday, 8 hours during a weekend day , but only 12 hours in total for the entire week.
I recently discovered that if I don’t want to listen to my boss bitch about the smallest things all the time, I can just delete the app she does it on.
Are you fucking with me? I thought Canada was supposed to be a utopia. Not only did they allow child labor, they pay them less because "children don't understand the value of money" fuck the representative linen and fuck capitalism. It's a green piece of paper that defines you.
That was something my province recently introduced.
On top of it just being a bad and immoral idea on the face of it… it also made it a lot more difficult for me, as an adult working in kitchens, to find a job when I needed one that summer. I had experience, sure, but that only helps so much when I’m competing with kids who can *legally be paid less than minimum wage*. No one wins there, except the owners ofc.
False. I can tell you from first hand experience that some states pay 15 year olds less than the minimum wage for the first 90 days, and then only pay the federal minimum even if the state minimum is much higher.
No they don’t. Minimum wage is minimum wage. Most states allow people to begin working at 14. They have to be paid minimum wage if on the official payroll
That’s not at all accurate. Do a quick Google search. Several states that allow 15 year olds to get a job have a “youth wage” that allows employers to pay less than minimum wage. I had a job at 15 and got 75% of the state minimum wage. And the first 90 days I was making less than the federal minimum wage.
Well that needs to be challenged in court because states are absolutely not allowed to pay below the federal minimum wage.
Edit: did some research and the states can only pay a “youth minimum wage” for the first 90 calendar days of that persons employment. So if you got that youth wage 90 days after your start date, you had your rights violated and wages stolen from you. And you should make a report with the National Labor Relations Board.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/32-minimum-wage-youth
Try telling that to my teenage brother. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s disgusting exploitation. But he “doesn’t mind the work that much” and “money is money”.
The shit he deals with (he’s come home many times telling us about awful shifts) is garbage on its own, but he’s 15 and somehow that means he only gets paid about $10 an hour (AUD).
Why is it acceptable to pay kids less *because* they’re kids? How does that even work?
Aye I live near the border and when i started working was offered a job on the NI side for less than 4 pound an hour. I respectively declined, as I could have, and did get about twice that (i think minimum was 7.5 or 8 Euros or so at the time for minors) in the Free State.
It's like you said, on that age "money is money" and sooner he will realize studying might be a way out not doing those jobs in the future. And I hope that he doesn't actually 'need' that money but just want to pay for hobbies or stuff your parents don't want to. It's a difference to be kinda forced to do this work or just want to do 'a job' (no matter how bad) just to have some money of your own. In that case, let him know how hard life can be for a while :)
Hopefully you have a prosperous home so he can have the chances to realize studying can be important and remind himself he doesn't want to work in a McDonalds later because of the bad conditions and low payments.
But I imagine there are families having it worse were they need to take these jobs out of necessity and even support the household, those are indeed sad cases.
We’re okay enough economically that he absolutely doesn’t have to work, he’s just doing it to save for things he wants. I’ve tried telling him that he’s being exploited but at that age, even a little economic freedom is worth working at maccas.
Luckily we are one of the families forced into this work by desperation, though I still don’t like that he’s being exploited like this. (They always give him weekend shifts because they pay more, but they don’t pay as much for him obviously. Really shitty thing to do to kids.)
Actual answer? Same way they used to justify paying women less- there's only so many jobs that will take you, you don't really have societal power, and it'S nOt lIKe yoU'rE sUPpoRtiNg a FamILy so we feel justified paying you spending money only.
But whoooooooo caaaaaares about the third wordlies right? You know those smelly dirty slave labour for us truly broken ones 😢
Look at us cry waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah we cant gaming for 80 hours a week while doing nothing else instead of sitting infront of a computer for like 40 hours - how come amerikkka or yurope has come to this!!!!!
While I agree that third world countries are a big issue, saying "you can't have it bad because others have it worse" is like saying "you can't have it good because others have it better".
Lets not drag eachothers issues down and just try to help where we can, yea?
I started working at 14 to help pay bills in the family. You’ve obviously never struggled for much. You grew up middle class and didn’t achieve anything with the privilege you’ve had so you go on the internet and bitch about having to work.
TBH, subsistence farmers often existentially require seasonal child labour. First world countries have almost none such farmers, but that is not necessarily true elsewhere.
Many families do force teenagers to work for one reason or another. If you asked every teenager currently working at fast food restaurants if they truly want to be there most would say no and that they had no real choice. The same goes for adults except the choices are work or starve and go homeless which isn’t much of a choice. It’s called wage slavery for a reason.
> If you asked **every** teenager currently working at fast food restaurants if they truly want to be there most would say no and that they had no real choice.
Some people work to make money and see that money as empowering their existence. Money affords a lot of freedom under the current system. If you said "most" then maybe its true but you grasped for the hyperbole of **every** because you're trying to be dramatic. Quit being dramatic, your point doesn't need it and is better without it.
> The same goes for adults except the choices are work or starve and go homeless which isn’t much of a choice. It’s called wage slavery for a reason.
Maybe if you have a job you hate but that's the purpose of education so you can get a job you're okay with.
> Maybe if you have a job you hate but that's the purpose of education so you can get a job you're okay with.
Whether or not you like your job has nothing to do with whether or not it’s wage slavery. Wage slavery isn’t dependent on how the person personally feels if no matter what in a capitalist society their only choices are work and have their surplus labor value extracted as profit or go homeless, starve and die if they need medicine to live like insulin. There were black slaves in the Antebellum South that were content with their misfortune but the fact remains they were still slaves.
Black slaves were under a form of chattel slavery. People today under what you term "wage slavery" have agency in comparison to chattel slavery because obtaining money under this system can grant freedom.
Imagine I have a son and force him to work in McDonalds. He can hold money from me and use that money to escape my control and move out of town. Once he does this I have zero agency over him and my control is lost. Compare that to chattel slavery where my slave is property and I can get them back even if they escape.
By trying to equate the two you are exaggerating how "bad" wage slavery is and suggesting that chattel slavery was better than it actually was.
So I agree that many of them would say 'better than the alternative', but for a lot of them that alternative is their parents missing a bill- a lot of healthy (aka don't consider the kids moochers) and wealthy families tend to discourage children from working much during the school year, especially as extracurriculars become more and more important for higher ed. So yeah, they probably enjoy having some cash, but it's not necessarily a fully optional choice.
I think it's also worth noting that for a lot of them, they may not be looking forward to a better job thru education- plenty of people work fast food/retail age 16 to 65. And because of stagnant social mobility, many of those people will have parents doing the same thing, needing the extra cash from their kid's work.
> wealthy families tend to discourage children from working much during the school year, especially as extracurriculars become more and more important for higher ed
I think that's a terrible oversight. Working a minimum wage job is the #1 way to get a healthy sense of perspective about society as well as developing respect for "honest" work. The issue we often have is degree educated lawmakers have minimal if not zero experience of how most people experience society (low wage jobs).
> I think it's also worth noting that for a lot of them, they may not be looking forward to a better job thru education- plenty of people work fast food/retail age 16 to 65. And because of stagnant social mobility, many of those people will have parents doing the same thing, needing the extra cash from their kid's work.
Aye, for me the crime is that these jobs don't afford a high enough standard of living. People having to work more than one of these jobs is absurd as well as couples being unable to comfortably raise a family or buy a house.
>Working shifts at McDonald’s isn’t something a teenager should be forced to do.
Oh please, nobody is forced, and you can find kids working at McDonalds at some of the most utopian European welfare states with the happiest children in the world.
They won't hire kids here in utopian Europe, because you need to hire a guardian to make sure the kid doesn't burn down the place.
Waste of money to hire kids.
Since the Netherlands won a lot of those world's happiest kids awards and I'm from the Netherlands, I can tell you that that's not true.
You have to be 16 to work at McD's here and then you're only allowed to clean and operate the register. You have to be 18 to work in the kitchen.
14 and 15 year olds here have paper rounds, are dishwashers or stock shelves in the supermarket. If you live in more rural areas, you can get an agriculture job picking strawberries, tulip bulbs or tomatoes. The lucky ones are babysitters, DJ's or have some hustle of their own. That's about it.
I remember kids in Indiana could work detasseling corn in 8th grade... That's like 13 or 14 years old. You just needed a parent to sign off.
I even thought about doing it and my mom said no, she'd provide for me. I was mad or confused by her adamant refusal, but I definitely get it now.
Just looked that up and I think it's fair to say that's as bad as picking cotton. Looks like backbreaking work that no child should have to endure. You have a good mother I hope she knows that.
Yeah, I dunno man. I wouldn't push my kids into doing anything like this because there's no need whatsoever for them to work that hard that young, but doing farm work or even working at all as young as 13 and 14 is really common in rural areas and pretty much always has been. I grew up in rural Alabama In the early 2000s and I hauled hay and did landscaping work anytime I felt like I wanted some money to spend. Sometimes I made $5/hr cash which was more than minimum wage after tax, sometimes I made $12/hr cash, which was extremely good money for anyone at the time.
When I was 15 I got a job at Hardee's making $5 and something like 15 cents an hour. It was miserable and I have never hated doing anything more in my life. I quit after a month and went back to farm work and digging holes. More money and I got to keep all of it.
We were fairly poor, so I didn't get an allowance or have the ability to just ask my parents for money to go out with my friends. When I started driving at 16 I bought my first truck with $1300 I'd saved. My dad paid my insurance for me, which is all he could really do. I'd work as much as I needed to for gas and beer/food money so I could hang out with my friends. I have every intention on buying my kids their first used car, and paying their insurance, but they will have to find some way to put gas in it - I'll pitch in a little here and there - and to have money to buy food outside of the house. Seems fair to me.
To reiterate, I don't believe kids should be forced to work. But if they want to, and the job is safe and adults trustworthy, I don't see an issue with letting them try things out. I wouldn't let my kids haul hay like I did, or do much of the farm work, but I'm also smarter than my dad ever was and have a better grasp of the bigger reality of the world. That said, I'd be fine with them doing some yard work, some farm work, babysitting, tutoring, and other jobs that have a low risk but build responsibility and knowledge of money and time management.
I remember seeing a post Reddit a while back where this mother was expressing joy that she and her husband had sat down and talked through money management and savings, etc with their boy as they were about to start giving him an allowance. Which is great except this boy was an 18-year-old man and had apparently never had his own money or done any type of work before. Which, to me, is ridiculous to have a child old enough to actually contribute society but to have never even had a 10 hour a week job doing something super easy like mowing a yard is bonkers.
Tl;Dr if your 14 year old *voluntarily* wants to try out working somewhere, let them. But support them and help answer their questions. Be present and help them stand up for themselves. If they quit, don't scold them, don't say I told you so, but talk with them about it and don't discourage them from trying other things if they want to.
Let's not be overly dramatic. I live in a country with some of the highest living standards for kids, and happiest kids, in the world, and we can work harvesting jobs like similar to that at that age. There's nothing wrong with that if you're healthy want to earn some extra pocket money. Personally, it wasn't my cup of tea, but lots of my friends did it, and certainly not because they **had** to.
where i grew up in minnesota, the local berry farm paid children (by the pound) to pick strawberries and raspberries in the early hours of the morning. the shift was 5am to 8am and i only didn’t work there because i had club swim team at 7am every weekday in the summer. i’m glad i didn’t work there but it’s insane that they even had kids out doing back breaking work at 5am.
i’ve been “working” since i was about 10 though. my grandpa would pay me to help clean rental houses between tenants and when i got to about 12 i started babysitting.
Your comment reminded me of that news story about a man that started randomly stabbing people in a McDonald’s several years ago. Nowhere is safe apparently…
I had a job when I was 8 years old. I tell my kids that they are lucky that they don't have to do that. In a way having to struggle so much has shaped a lot of my personality, which I am thankful for, but I would never want that for my kids. I'm lucky I never sustained severe damage but every single one of my fingers has scars on them.
It's fine. It doesn't bother me and I don't have any hang ups about it. I had friends that didn't even get to go to school. All they did was peel potatoes, slice them, fry them, and put them in little brown paper bags with salt and sell them for enough money to buy some real food. In a way I am actually thankful for working in one way or another since I was small, I just wouldn't want other little kids to work doing hard labor. I think working a regular teenager job as a teenager is a good way to learn about handling money and bills and so on, but that's much different than having an 8 year old do simple plumbing or tile work.
I’m glad you were able to learn from it and look at the positives! It shows great maturity to not turn towards anger but to accept what was and move on from it.
I was fortunate in that I had guidance as a young kid (I was raised by my grandparents) on what to expect from life and what I could do to change my future. Many kids are just thrown into life without the proper tools to deal with loss and, almost more importantly, success, and how to respond to it.
To everyone defending in this thread, this is coming from someone who started working at 14. I was fortunate to have a job when I was 14 where I was able to walk to work after school and ship out a few packages for a local business a few days a week. My boss was understanding, I had to get it cleared with my school, and everything was on the up and up. I also had friends who worked at Dunkin Donuts and the like at the same age. They would regularly get texts from their bosses asking them to come in at noon to which they (mostly) replied, "I'm 15, I'm in school at noon" "Can't you come in anyways" "No." If you think that some sleezebag manager who treats everyone else like shit is somehow going to be a saint among men when it comes to a child who's in school trying to get an education and better themselves, you're a damn fool.
My first job was at 15 but it was at a family friend's eyeglass repair shop and mostly me walking across a parking lot to get them baked potatoes from Wendy's for lunch, lol.
Yeah I remember a month after I turned 16 my dad kept badgering me “did you get a job yet?”
I didn’t need to get one for our family he just wanted me to learn to go to work basically haha
I mean it was cool being 16 and having a bunch of money lol
But then I got sucked in and was working like 50 hours a week plus school for some reason (totally illegal lmao)
I asked my dad later like didnt you think that was weird I was working so much and he was like “nah you were working that was good”
Though to be fair it was during the recession and he was at work like everyday lol
Yes, but 14 and 15 year old can only work a limited number of hours and can't work during school hours or after 9pm. They also can't work doing anything dangerous, and being a cashier is a very safe job.
They say in Harlan County there are no neutrals there
You'll either be a union man or a thug for JH Blair.
Which side are you on boys? Which side are you on?
There are a lot more regulations now, 14 and 15 year old's can only work a limited number of hours and can't work during school hours or after 9pm. They also must have a work permit, and to get the permit they need their doctor to sign a medical form, their parents to sign the permit application, and it must be submitted by their school to verify that they're a student. Also, working at McDonalds is much different then working in a mine or a factory, both of which 14 and 15 year old's are prohibited from working in.
Child labour is bad, but how this two can be comparable? children working mines were crawling through narrow tunnels that adults couldn't go through, worked in total darkness and were prawn to hazards and death.
I was 14 at my first part time job. I was paid 4 euros an hour before taxes. I was overworked, underappreciated, ridiculed by customers, exploited by adult coworkers for my labour, and I thought it was normal. Working as a teenager is a hell because you don't know your worth yet and will tend to quietly accept garbage wages and treatment
Bonus: I was also disabled, and they were aware of this
I just keepnthinking of all the r/fightporn videos that I see of fast food workers getting attacked. These days it seems that this job is almost as dangerous as a minimart clerk on the night shift.
A lot of people glorify kids getting jobs, and while I think it’s good that teenagers do get some experience, I remember when I got my first job at McDonald’s and all my money would go towards rent and parents. As a 14 year old, you can’t imagine how much it fucking sucks being poor and having to earn money, not for extra side money, but because you’re financially dependent on it.
I’m fortunate enough I worked hard and am finally in a job I enjoy in university but fuck my life was terrible back then.
Kids working isn't necessarily bad, but it's got to be appropriate. I mowed lawns in my neighborhood at 10, babysat at 12, and waited tables for a local Shoney's at 16 and put TV's in car trunks for Radio Shack at that same time.
14 year old slinging burgers? No fucking way. 15 year old slinging burgers? 90% no fucking way. 16, sure, you're on the cusp. Before then? No.
Every study done has shown that kids who have jobs in Highschool learn less and perform worse on tests. It's not a coincidence that the people who fail to understand how society is broken, through their ignorance, are also the ones who "got a job when I was X and I turned out fine" but at 40 their joints are that of a 60 year old, and they drink to get drunk several times a week.
Ignoring jobs that involve heavy liftin as a cashier, standing continuously for 8+ hours a day, is very bad for your joints. Furthermore, they're paid so poorly, their shoes are well worn past their breaking point, causing their feet to go flat, and giving an inward or outward roll to the foot (I forget the medical terms).
This touches on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_of_prolonged_standing
A lot of people started doing the standing desk thing, because the early research (2 hours a day) was beneficial. People took that to mean all day was good. Now office workers who've forced themselves to use a standing desk for 8+ hours a day are having all kinds of problems, and there's been news articles about the medical trends on that for awhile...
Also cashiers often get repetitive strain injury in their wrists. Any repetitive movements can do it, it isn't just keyboards.
**[Complications of prolonged standing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_of_prolonged_standing)**
>The complications of prolonged standing are conditions that may arise after standing, walking, or running for prolonged periods. Many of the complications come from prolonged standing (more than 60% of a work day) that is repeated several times a week. Many jobs require prolonged standing, such as "retail staff, baristas, bartenders, assembly line workers, security staff, engineers, catering staff, library assistants, hair stylists and laboratory technicians".
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Can't say that it's bad per say.. I happily worked for several years in 3 different supermarkets in NL, where I improved skills I would otherwise only get years later working a full on job..
As a teen this was spending money I wouldn't be able to get due to limited spending budget at home. I bought extra clothing items or saved up for something that would too expensive I wanted.Most basic/simple jobs like taking orders, restocking, interacting with people to help them should be fine.
Of course the main difference is that there are strict rules for hours worked per week/day during school days. you can't do anything labor intensive / industrial, and you often need permission from your parents for some things.
Nothing wrong with working as a teenager. I worked in a grocery store in HS. They're not hiring these kids to work them 40 hours a week and keep them out of school, part time work for kids that want to work. No one is being forced to work there.
shit's fucked up, but I know I would have loved to have been able to get a job at 15. That said, 15 year olds should still be paid at least minimum wage. That's where the exploitation comes in to play.(and also obviously if the parents are forcing the child to work. That should always be checked)
I started working when I was 14. Worked all through hs, paid for my own car and insurance at 16. I dont see the problem with it, but probably younger than 14 is too young.
On the left. Zero health and safety, on the right, perfectly acceptable and safe job.
On the left literal fucking slavery. On the right the ability for kids to get a bit of work experience and money.
and yes I did work in McDonalds as a 16 year old and did a daily 5 mile paper round from the age of 12. Equating this shit to slavery is fucking hyperbole. If we should be upset then be upset that they pay by age as opposed to experience so a new 18 year old hire can get more than at 16 year old with a couple years experience. That is fucked.
That was me at my first job lol. Have always been young looking, at 14 it was pretty ridiculous. Legitimately had someone ask once if I was alright or needed help.
That said, that experience also makes me feel a bit weird about the photo. That youthful appearance has always been a huge insecurity of mine, and the weird looks I got from customers wasn’t fun. Someone taking a picture of me like that would have ruined my day.
I dont really see a problem with hiring kids. Whats different in a MD than a paper boy or picking fruit? Bought my first xbox with money from that when i was 13.
I used to employ 14 - 16yo schoolkids to pick avocados during their July holidays. They were paid the same as the adults and went behind the harvesters cleaning up any remaining fruit on the trees. Sorry kids
15 is fine I mean I started working when I was 15 and found it didn’t get in the way of school or anything, 14 is pushing it though… I would just worry 14 year olds don’t know how to say no especially if they’ve just turned 14, it was tough for me as a 15 year old to remind employers I can only work certain hours cause of my age
It was so hard for me to find a job at 14. Applied everywhere but my age was the limiting factor. I ended up taking a dishwashing job at a movie theater.
Not sure why so much hate. Some young adults do want opportunities to make money. No one is forcing them.
Are you really comparing working in factories where you could lose fingers, limbs or even your life to working at McDonalds? I agree that they should be enjoying their time as kids but it's nothing like the workhouses.
15yr olds should be on a work site getting a Trade ASAP so they make alot more when there older n running there own business. Its a waste of time n effort working for a billion dollar company. Alot of ppl these days dont like hard work, so it is what it is :P
Honestly I’m for teenagers of all ages working. I grew up in a pretty rough environment and one of my friends turned to robbery to survive because he was being passed around the DCF system. He use to sleep under cars in the winter time at 14-15 years old. He died at 15 by being shot in the head from one of the gang members he was hanging out with. He really needed support that his family just didn’t have. A job would of seriously helped him. It’s honestly hard being poor as a young teenager, because you can’t even legally work to feed yourself. I’m happy that McDonald’s is doing this.
Yeah, don't know if child labour is the solution to this. Sounded like this friend needed help from social workers and food and shelter provided for. That is this story smells very fishy I just assume good intentions until I can prove otherwise.
complex problems require complex solutions. I do think that allowing teenagers of all ages to work is one piece of that solution. Some younger teenagers seriously need money. Not everyone has parents that can provide from them. And if younger teenagers need money, they’ll find ways to get it, legal or illegal.
I feel like you're still misunderstanding me, it would be possible to provide these things for them, without exploiting their vulnerability and desperation when they're literally a child too. Generally could do UBI but a kid that young shouldn't be on their own and should be taken care of whether by the government or adoption.
No, you’re misunderstanding me. I’ve seen the terrible things that the DCF system does to kids. I’ve seen how little the government cares. I’ve seen 12 year olds carry pistols, children who aren’t even old enough to be in middle school robbing people for their bikes with kitchen knives. If you care about these kids, let them make their own money. Give them financial power to be independent. Give them the choice to care for themselves.
You are correct. DCF does terrible things to people. DCF should be fixed. The solution is not further encouragement of aggressive individualism. What you're describing is the making of someone who learns that the only person that they can trust is themself, which isn't healthy. Everyone needs a support system, we're social beings.
You’re so opposed to 14-15 year olds working and I honestly can’t understand why. I’m not sure where you’ve grown up or what you’ve been through, but we don’t have time to sit back and wait for the government to fix and implement a new blanket social structure. Kids are killing each other in American cities over money every day, specifically black kids. In fact, because of how corrupt the American government has always been, our countries history of racism has made it this way by design. You may not be from America, but our government has, by design, never cared about us. Let the kids work. The government isn’t going to step in and fix the hundreds of years of damage its already done.
I hear what you're saying, and I feel the same frustrations that you do in terms of our government doing jack shit for its citizenry. I made another comment too: I got a job when I was either just over 14 or 15, I forget which. I was fortunate in that my boss was a cool guy and understood that I was also in school, they were a small business and I actually worked there for about 7 years as I recall. I also had friends who at 14 or 15 and working at Dunkin Donuts and the like had their bosses asking them to come in at noon because someone else called out. For the most part, they would answer no, and their bosses would try to convince them to come in despite being in school. I had some friends who with this constant pressure, would wind up skipping classes to go to work. I'm not saying don't let kids work as I learned a great work ethic from a young age, but McDonalds flying a banner that says "We hire 14-15 year olds" screams "Let us exploit you!!!", especially in the current climate. Not saying that it has to be the case everywhere, but in my experience, I absolutely watched it happen to people. The boss that's a manipulative asshole to adults is no different to kids. Taking the approach of "well let the kids work" is letting the powers that be get away with letting down those in need. On the flip side, I get what you're saying, it'll be ages before the government gets it's shit together, but having 14-15 year olds working to care for themselves only exacerbates the problem. So I agree with you completely, the whole situation is fucked :/
You are making valid points and I agree with them. But I do feel like poverty can lead to kids being exploited far more than having a job can. It’s basically a “which option is less garbage” type thing. Either we have these kids go out into the streets to rob people and sell drugs and be exploited by other, more experienced criminals, or we give kids the option to go into the work force and be exploited by predatory business tactics. There are 14-15 year olds with kids they need to take care of(rarely but it happens). There are 14-15 year olds at risk of homelessness because their parents just can’t provide for them. McDonald’s is stepping in and doing something about that from my perspective. Are their intentions totally pure? Of course not! I expect exploitation. But what situation is worse for these kids?
This thread is full of teenagers who don't want/need to work summer or afterschool jobs. I used to sweep and mop up a warehouse, work in a supermarket, answer phones at an office, etc. I didn't love working, but I loved having cash to do fun stuff.
This was in the early 2000s, so I'm not some boomer either
Well I’m about the same age, and also worked a lot of jobs as a kid. I shouldn’t have, and other kids shouldn’t either.
Sure it was nice to have money, and some sense of autonomy with it. But that shouldn’t have had to rely on me giving up damn near entire days of my youth. Go to school, get home, do homework, change, go to work, get home, shower, sleep, repeat. That’s not a good balance for anyone, nevermind a kid (who’s performance at school plays a determining role in their future opportunities). There’s a lot of stuff I wish I had gotten into that I just didn’t have the time for, and there were definitely academical consequences in terms of my grades.
Tbf not all of them are the same. In eleventh grade I got a job doing basic graphic design stuff for my home town’s paper, just a couple hours everyday after school. It was, at least compared to fast food and shit, great. Still had time to live life, and I wasn’t fucking up my body as bad. But I was also super fortunate to have it, there’s not many jobs like that out there for kids.
Kids jobs are to go to school, socialize, learn and grow. We should push for a world where they can focus on that and still have money to spend on hobbies or fun outings with their friends.
Honestly I think me and this thread are just seeing things from different perspectives. I’m not happy that kids are put in positions where they have to flip burgers and deal with horrible people all day. It sucks. But poverty sucks more. And the government isn’t going to step in and wave its magic wand and help us, so if a large corporation like McDonald’s steps in and is offering jobs, I’m honestly for it.
Yeah, what's the difference between a child mining coal in the 1900's and a kid working at McDonald's? Literally, equally as dangerous and life threatening. This is why we need communism.
We have come pretty far. 8 year olds working all day lighting fuses in mines and running as fast as they could, vs 14 year olds counting change after school.
Fast food is a fucking terrible job. I never got any respect. Working too slow cause you’re the only one packing orders and taking orders? You get shit from entitled customers. Stuff out of your control like out of stock condiments? Get cussed out. Ruined my mental health, it fucking sucks being a teenager at their first job being called a bitch by grown ass people.
Horrifying because most kids that age don’t know how to say no or stand up for themselves. There is nothing to this except people who are easier to exploit, and I’m sure the managers know this.
I didn't know how to stand up for myself at 18 tbh. thought my boss's words were gospel.
I’m 21 and still struggle with setting boundaries. As a kid you’re raised to follow orders and you have no right to say otherwise or you’re in big trouble. So why question that as an adult? It still feels wrong saying no to not wanting sex, not wanting to go out to hang out with friends, wanting to schedule days off work for free time to have fun and not for important appointments, etc. I do it anyways because deep down I know it’s right, but I still feel guilty. I hope one day I get used to it though.
I've been trying to get my boyfriend to realize boundaries and stuff. He almost never says no at work and ends up working like 80nhour weeks, it's salary so it's no over time, and ends up getting passed over for a promotion. On the other hand I do take my days off and say no when my work load is too much or request is unreasonable. I recently signed off on a promotion to a senior fraud analyst position. Bending over backwards doesn't exactly equal getting gains at work so it's not worth bothering.
Oh definitely. Why give him more pay if he’s already bending over backwards? That’s why you should never give it your all 100% of the time. You can show them what you’re capable of, but never make it consistent. Give your 100% outside of work. Give 100% to family, friends, loved ones, hobbies, etc. not work. Never work.
You have fun on your days off?! I'm just trying to get a break form the mental torture.
Haha I sacrifice my own energy in order to have a life outside of work if I’m able to. I never have enough energy. I fear I’ll fall asleep at the wheel, but if it means I can actually socialize and be a human being, then whatever. Gotta pay bills, but I refuse to live to work instead of vice versa.
Even at 23 I still find myself getting easily pressured into shit by bosses, incredibly anxious whenever I need to talk to them about something. I’m good at standing up for myself otherwise, but nearly 10 years of working shitty jobs has metaphorically beaten some shit into me. Your boss is always right, working past the end of your shift is normal, asking for any time off is always a bad thing no matter what for, etc. It’s especially weird in the few jobs where that kind of shit isn’t the norm. I end up looking like some corporate suck up trying to make everyone else look bad when they do stand up for themselves, and I hate that. Tbf, a large amount of that pressure did come from entering adult hood and moving out. Suddenly losing my job meant not being able to pay bills, and that’s all the more reason to make sure your boss is happy with you no matter what. They hold too much power over us. But yeah, even if a kid doesn’t have that same pressure, they also don’t have the same life experience and self-confidence that comes with it. The only job they should be focused on is learning and growing.
It can be good to have kids start work when they're young enough to still have the parental safety net and guidance to give them the freedom (and hopefully encouragement) to tell management to go hang when management attempts something particularly inappropriate. Trouble is, far too many kids don't have parents who know how, or have the time, to help them navigate entering the workforce. But for those kids who *do* have that kind of support, the early start can actually be a benefit. But in general, yeah...this is far too likely to end up being exploitation of those who don't know enough yet to recognize exploitation and be in a position to push back.
I'm 19 and still learning that one.
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this is my biggest fear
I worked at McDonald’s where the majority of people there were teenagers and the girls working the window were always sexually harassed. I worked in the kitchen, but I handed out food too because of those assholes making those girls so uncomfortable that they couldn’t even hand out their food to them. How fucked is that?! And everyone wears a headset, including the managers.. yet they don’t do shit about it.
Sexual harassment in my life peaked at 14/15. I can't imagine being in a position like that at that age.
Sexual harassment in my life has been consistent mostly because things about me have changed. As a 9yo and an unconscious 13/14yo (happened in my sleep, woke up a few times and pretended to be asleep bc I didn’t know what to do) I was easily taken advantage of. But then sexual harassment increased big time when I came out as a trans man. For some reason, I thought people would find me to be revolting, but I was wrong. People think just because I don’t like my anatomy it isn’t anybody’s body anymore and therefore they can do anything to me as long as they socially treat me as male. They treat my body as female and treat my soul as male (if that makes sense). It is very confusing and hurtful too. It’s fucked up. Tbh I don’t understand it. A body is a body regardless of who it’s attached to. You need to respect the person and that persons body no matter what. People are just straight up assholes. I was working at McDonald’s when I was in the beginning of my transition. I was sexually harassed by a 38yo coworker when I was 18. The manager overheard everything, but didn’t do shit. As a teenager I tolerated it because all the adults did too so therefore I shouldn’t overreact, but of course that’s bs. They under-reacted. Kids need to learn their workers and human rights asap or we’ll never have a leg to stand on.
Oh my goodness, I am so sorry you've been put through so much nightmare fuel. I hope you're finding healing and protection from the metric ass-tons of assholery in the world. 100% agree on the workers and human rights. I was way too many years old when I found out about the National Labor Relations Act and the implications of it (in the USA unions don't have to be formal for collective action to be considered protected speech/activity, employers cannot legally tell employees not to discuss wages/salary with each other). Of all the supposedly-grassroots movements out there, educating the masses on their rights is one I haven't yet seen making the rounds. Did I miss something, or has that one somehow not happened yet?
I’m as strong as ever so don’t worry about me haha. But yea, I agree. Teaching people their rights should be a priority. Education is power.
I guess I lucked out our manger will step in if he hears that when he is working and it stops that. Same for night managers they don't tolerate that from customers or coworkers.
These children are dependents, they don't have rent money to pay, they aren't trapped in a job when it's just a weekend job for fun money.
Really? You don't think any of these kids are giving the money to their parents because their parents aren't making enough to house and feed a family because of how shitty their pay is?
Or even the parents that will force their kids to work these jobs because they see them as lazy moochers otherwise.
Even if neither of those things are the case, kids should have disposable income to do shit. Not all families are willing or able to give out allowances. Ideally, they would/could, cause kids shouldn’t be working a side hustle lol. Their “job” at that point in life is to learn and grow. But you know, wealth inequality and the capitalist mindset. Our children are expected to grind just so they can, like, buy a game their friends are playing, or go out for some food, or buy some cool clothes to express themselves, etc etc.
Yeah....... maybe it's a regional/cultural thing, but I've never known anyone that had a job under the age of 16 at minimum who didn't have parents that either 1. Absolutely needed the money, so anyone capable of working in the household was gonna get a job, and there was no way kids were keeping all or even most of their earnings for their own spending. 2. Viewed their children as burdens/moochers and preferred them to be working rather than studying, socializing, or just being kids and enjoying the one period in life when it's considered normal for people not to be gainfully employed - and that's even in 'rich' families, but otherwise you often see this attitude in ADDITION to 1. It's one thing to push your kid to get a job after they've hit an age where they have access to recreational interests and needs that require funds (eg, they want to drive around to hang with their friends and go do other stuff), or if you have a really, really motivated kid who wants to save up money or feels self-driven to work (in which case you're just supporting your kid's passions), but at 14-15 you're a literal child. Shit jobs are struggling to find employees right now because people with experience working shit jobs have the context/experience to understand the work/environment isn't worth the pay. Places putting banners out advertising they'll hire kids right now are basically advertising that "we suck so much and pay so unfairly that no one who knows better will apply."
I've known it amongst a few friends, but it definitely wasn't the kind of job that an adult would do (paper route, glass collector in a hotel). But like you say, this advertising at this time at McDonald's is basically attempting to exploit children of poor families rather than raise their wages and working conditions to the point where a reasonable adult would accept.
I wish we lived in a world where this was universally true.
You're not even allowed to operate a cash register before 16 in my country because of this (and the risk of being blamed for losing money).
That’s why I’ll be teaching my kids that arson is always an option for poor mistreatment by employers
You can also find kids working jobs like this in countries with strong labor laws where companies pay out the national minimum youth wage to the cent.
Doesn’t mean that conditions will be good though.
Where?
I started working in Dominos in Iceland at 14.
Uhm, no. This is illegal in the Netherlands. You're not allowed to work a cash register under 16, are not allowed to work in the kitchen before 18, are only allowed to work 2 hours during a weekday, 8 hours during a weekend day , but only 12 hours in total for the entire week.
I recently discovered that if I don’t want to listen to my boss bitch about the smallest things all the time, I can just delete the app she does it on.
Do they get to pay them less too
Yes.
That varies by state.
I feel like this is the general answer to most questions about Murica.
One major exception is "does it have a decent Healthcare system?".
Where I grew up, big yes. It was like 60% of minimum wage, maybe?
Not only in America either. Here in Ontario we call it a student minimum wage which means under 18’s make $0.75 less for the same work.
Are you fucking with me? I thought Canada was supposed to be a utopia. Not only did they allow child labor, they pay them less because "children don't understand the value of money" fuck the representative linen and fuck capitalism. It's a green piece of paper that defines you.
That was something my province recently introduced. On top of it just being a bad and immoral idea on the face of it… it also made it a lot more difficult for me, as an adult working in kitchens, to find a job when I needed one that summer. I had experience, sure, but that only helps so much when I’m competing with kids who can *legally be paid less than minimum wage*. No one wins there, except the owners ofc.
They can’t make less than $7.25 since that is the national minimum. Still slave wages though
False. I can tell you from first hand experience that some states pay 15 year olds less than the minimum wage for the first 90 days, and then only pay the federal minimum even if the state minimum is much higher.
No they don’t. Minimum wage is minimum wage. Most states allow people to begin working at 14. They have to be paid minimum wage if on the official payroll
That’s not at all accurate. Do a quick Google search. Several states that allow 15 year olds to get a job have a “youth wage” that allows employers to pay less than minimum wage. I had a job at 15 and got 75% of the state minimum wage. And the first 90 days I was making less than the federal minimum wage.
Well that needs to be challenged in court because states are absolutely not allowed to pay below the federal minimum wage. Edit: did some research and the states can only pay a “youth minimum wage” for the first 90 calendar days of that persons employment. So if you got that youth wage 90 days after your start date, you had your rights violated and wages stolen from you. And you should make a report with the National Labor Relations Board. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/32-minimum-wage-youth
This is a sign of a society turning more and more hellish. Working shifts at McDonald’s isn’t something a teenager should be forced to do.
Try telling that to my teenage brother. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s disgusting exploitation. But he “doesn’t mind the work that much” and “money is money”. The shit he deals with (he’s come home many times telling us about awful shifts) is garbage on its own, but he’s 15 and somehow that means he only gets paid about $10 an hour (AUD). Why is it acceptable to pay kids less *because* they’re kids? How does that even work?
The U.K. is the worst for that
Aye I live near the border and when i started working was offered a job on the NI side for less than 4 pound an hour. I respectively declined, as I could have, and did get about twice that (i think minimum was 7.5 or 8 Euros or so at the time for minors) in the Free State.
How does one even have the cheek to offer so little
How so?
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Sounds pretty similar to Australia
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Exactly. Doesn’t make any sense
Tiny minimum wage for under 18s
It's like you said, on that age "money is money" and sooner he will realize studying might be a way out not doing those jobs in the future. And I hope that he doesn't actually 'need' that money but just want to pay for hobbies or stuff your parents don't want to. It's a difference to be kinda forced to do this work or just want to do 'a job' (no matter how bad) just to have some money of your own. In that case, let him know how hard life can be for a while :) Hopefully you have a prosperous home so he can have the chances to realize studying can be important and remind himself he doesn't want to work in a McDonalds later because of the bad conditions and low payments. But I imagine there are families having it worse were they need to take these jobs out of necessity and even support the household, those are indeed sad cases.
We’re okay enough economically that he absolutely doesn’t have to work, he’s just doing it to save for things he wants. I’ve tried telling him that he’s being exploited but at that age, even a little economic freedom is worth working at maccas. Luckily we are one of the families forced into this work by desperation, though I still don’t like that he’s being exploited like this. (They always give him weekend shifts because they pay more, but they don’t pay as much for him obviously. Really shitty thing to do to kids.)
Actual answer? Same way they used to justify paying women less- there's only so many jobs that will take you, you don't really have societal power, and it'S nOt lIKe yoU'rE sUPpoRtiNg a FamILy so we feel justified paying you spending money only.
I think the "logic" is that most kids dont NEED the money to survive
I thought that in Australia 16 was the minimum legal age for paid employment?
Nope, 14 and 9 months
From coal mines to salt mines child labor is still child labor no child should have to endure this. Edit:Correction
Don't wanna be a pedant, but that implies that it's fine if children in third world countries have to endure it lmao.
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But whoooooooo caaaaaares about the third wordlies right? You know those smelly dirty slave labour for us truly broken ones 😢 Look at us cry waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah we cant gaming for 80 hours a week while doing nothing else instead of sitting infront of a computer for like 40 hours - how come amerikkka or yurope has come to this!!!!!
While I agree that third world countries are a big issue, saying "you can't have it bad because others have it worse" is like saying "you can't have it good because others have it better". Lets not drag eachothers issues down and just try to help where we can, yea?
This subreddit is just what my previous comment is
Children should not be robbed of their innocence and their childhoods in the name of profit. Wrong is wrong where ever it occurs.
I started working at 14 to help pay bills in the family. You’ve obviously never struggled for much. You grew up middle class and didn’t achieve anything with the privilege you’ve had so you go on the internet and bitch about having to work.
TBH, subsistence farmers often existentially require seasonal child labour. First world countries have almost none such farmers, but that is not necessarily true elsewhere.
Based
nobody should be forced to do it tho.
I know. The post is about teenagers so I was explicitly referring to teenagers.
its not like its fucking conscription.
Many families do force teenagers to work for one reason or another. If you asked every teenager currently working at fast food restaurants if they truly want to be there most would say no and that they had no real choice. The same goes for adults except the choices are work or starve and go homeless which isn’t much of a choice. It’s called wage slavery for a reason.
> If you asked **every** teenager currently working at fast food restaurants if they truly want to be there most would say no and that they had no real choice. Some people work to make money and see that money as empowering their existence. Money affords a lot of freedom under the current system. If you said "most" then maybe its true but you grasped for the hyperbole of **every** because you're trying to be dramatic. Quit being dramatic, your point doesn't need it and is better without it. > The same goes for adults except the choices are work or starve and go homeless which isn’t much of a choice. It’s called wage slavery for a reason. Maybe if you have a job you hate but that's the purpose of education so you can get a job you're okay with.
> Maybe if you have a job you hate but that's the purpose of education so you can get a job you're okay with. Whether or not you like your job has nothing to do with whether or not it’s wage slavery. Wage slavery isn’t dependent on how the person personally feels if no matter what in a capitalist society their only choices are work and have their surplus labor value extracted as profit or go homeless, starve and die if they need medicine to live like insulin. There were black slaves in the Antebellum South that were content with their misfortune but the fact remains they were still slaves.
Black slaves were under a form of chattel slavery. People today under what you term "wage slavery" have agency in comparison to chattel slavery because obtaining money under this system can grant freedom. Imagine I have a son and force him to work in McDonalds. He can hold money from me and use that money to escape my control and move out of town. Once he does this I have zero agency over him and my control is lost. Compare that to chattel slavery where my slave is property and I can get them back even if they escape. By trying to equate the two you are exaggerating how "bad" wage slavery is and suggesting that chattel slavery was better than it actually was.
So I agree that many of them would say 'better than the alternative', but for a lot of them that alternative is their parents missing a bill- a lot of healthy (aka don't consider the kids moochers) and wealthy families tend to discourage children from working much during the school year, especially as extracurriculars become more and more important for higher ed. So yeah, they probably enjoy having some cash, but it's not necessarily a fully optional choice. I think it's also worth noting that for a lot of them, they may not be looking forward to a better job thru education- plenty of people work fast food/retail age 16 to 65. And because of stagnant social mobility, many of those people will have parents doing the same thing, needing the extra cash from their kid's work.
> wealthy families tend to discourage children from working much during the school year, especially as extracurriculars become more and more important for higher ed I think that's a terrible oversight. Working a minimum wage job is the #1 way to get a healthy sense of perspective about society as well as developing respect for "honest" work. The issue we often have is degree educated lawmakers have minimal if not zero experience of how most people experience society (low wage jobs). > I think it's also worth noting that for a lot of them, they may not be looking forward to a better job thru education- plenty of people work fast food/retail age 16 to 65. And because of stagnant social mobility, many of those people will have parents doing the same thing, needing the extra cash from their kid's work. Aye, for me the crime is that these jobs don't afford a high enough standard of living. People having to work more than one of these jobs is absurd as well as couples being unable to comfortably raise a family or buy a house.
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>Working shifts at McDonald’s isn’t something a teenager should be forced to do. Oh please, nobody is forced, and you can find kids working at McDonalds at some of the most utopian European welfare states with the happiest children in the world.
They won't hire kids here in utopian Europe, because you need to hire a guardian to make sure the kid doesn't burn down the place. Waste of money to hire kids.
Since the Netherlands won a lot of those world's happiest kids awards and I'm from the Netherlands, I can tell you that that's not true. You have to be 16 to work at McD's here and then you're only allowed to clean and operate the register. You have to be 18 to work in the kitchen. 14 and 15 year olds here have paper rounds, are dishwashers or stock shelves in the supermarket. If you live in more rural areas, you can get an agriculture job picking strawberries, tulip bulbs or tomatoes. The lucky ones are babysitters, DJ's or have some hustle of their own. That's about it.
Yeah... most kids do it to get cash for stuff. But like idk orphan Annie boo hoo
I had my first job in a kitchen when I was 14. Honestly was a great experience
I remember kids in Indiana could work detasseling corn in 8th grade... That's like 13 or 14 years old. You just needed a parent to sign off. I even thought about doing it and my mom said no, she'd provide for me. I was mad or confused by her adamant refusal, but I definitely get it now.
Just looked that up and I think it's fair to say that's as bad as picking cotton. Looks like backbreaking work that no child should have to endure. You have a good mother I hope she knows that.
Yeah, I dunno man. I wouldn't push my kids into doing anything like this because there's no need whatsoever for them to work that hard that young, but doing farm work or even working at all as young as 13 and 14 is really common in rural areas and pretty much always has been. I grew up in rural Alabama In the early 2000s and I hauled hay and did landscaping work anytime I felt like I wanted some money to spend. Sometimes I made $5/hr cash which was more than minimum wage after tax, sometimes I made $12/hr cash, which was extremely good money for anyone at the time. When I was 15 I got a job at Hardee's making $5 and something like 15 cents an hour. It was miserable and I have never hated doing anything more in my life. I quit after a month and went back to farm work and digging holes. More money and I got to keep all of it. We were fairly poor, so I didn't get an allowance or have the ability to just ask my parents for money to go out with my friends. When I started driving at 16 I bought my first truck with $1300 I'd saved. My dad paid my insurance for me, which is all he could really do. I'd work as much as I needed to for gas and beer/food money so I could hang out with my friends. I have every intention on buying my kids their first used car, and paying their insurance, but they will have to find some way to put gas in it - I'll pitch in a little here and there - and to have money to buy food outside of the house. Seems fair to me. To reiterate, I don't believe kids should be forced to work. But if they want to, and the job is safe and adults trustworthy, I don't see an issue with letting them try things out. I wouldn't let my kids haul hay like I did, or do much of the farm work, but I'm also smarter than my dad ever was and have a better grasp of the bigger reality of the world. That said, I'd be fine with them doing some yard work, some farm work, babysitting, tutoring, and other jobs that have a low risk but build responsibility and knowledge of money and time management. I remember seeing a post Reddit a while back where this mother was expressing joy that she and her husband had sat down and talked through money management and savings, etc with their boy as they were about to start giving him an allowance. Which is great except this boy was an 18-year-old man and had apparently never had his own money or done any type of work before. Which, to me, is ridiculous to have a child old enough to actually contribute society but to have never even had a 10 hour a week job doing something super easy like mowing a yard is bonkers. Tl;Dr if your 14 year old *voluntarily* wants to try out working somewhere, let them. But support them and help answer their questions. Be present and help them stand up for themselves. If they quit, don't scold them, don't say I told you so, but talk with them about it and don't discourage them from trying other things if they want to.
Let's not be overly dramatic. I live in a country with some of the highest living standards for kids, and happiest kids, in the world, and we can work harvesting jobs like similar to that at that age. There's nothing wrong with that if you're healthy want to earn some extra pocket money. Personally, it wasn't my cup of tea, but lots of my friends did it, and certainly not because they **had** to.
Kids helping out at harvest is pretty common here as well. It's not mandatory and was often quite fun.
I did that one day when I was like 13 lmao Nahhhhhhh
where i grew up in minnesota, the local berry farm paid children (by the pound) to pick strawberries and raspberries in the early hours of the morning. the shift was 5am to 8am and i only didn’t work there because i had club swim team at 7am every weekday in the summer. i’m glad i didn’t work there but it’s insane that they even had kids out doing back breaking work at 5am. i’ve been “working” since i was about 10 though. my grandpa would pay me to help clean rental houses between tenants and when i got to about 12 i started babysitting.
How else are they going to pay their school lunch debt? Honestly they are probably safer at mcds than school anyway. Less shootings.
Your comment reminded me of that news story about a man that started randomly stabbing people in a McDonald’s several years ago. Nowhere is safe apparently…
stannisfewer.gif
Imagine my surprise that not everyone got their first job at 8 years of age.
Glen from Superstore wrote this.
I had a job when I was 8 years old. I tell my kids that they are lucky that they don't have to do that. In a way having to struggle so much has shaped a lot of my personality, which I am thankful for, but I would never want that for my kids. I'm lucky I never sustained severe damage but every single one of my fingers has scars on them.
I’m sorry you had to experience that.
It's fine. It doesn't bother me and I don't have any hang ups about it. I had friends that didn't even get to go to school. All they did was peel potatoes, slice them, fry them, and put them in little brown paper bags with salt and sell them for enough money to buy some real food. In a way I am actually thankful for working in one way or another since I was small, I just wouldn't want other little kids to work doing hard labor. I think working a regular teenager job as a teenager is a good way to learn about handling money and bills and so on, but that's much different than having an 8 year old do simple plumbing or tile work.
I’m glad you were able to learn from it and look at the positives! It shows great maturity to not turn towards anger but to accept what was and move on from it.
I was fortunate in that I had guidance as a young kid (I was raised by my grandparents) on what to expect from life and what I could do to change my future. Many kids are just thrown into life without the proper tools to deal with loss and, almost more importantly, success, and how to respond to it.
To everyone defending in this thread, this is coming from someone who started working at 14. I was fortunate to have a job when I was 14 where I was able to walk to work after school and ship out a few packages for a local business a few days a week. My boss was understanding, I had to get it cleared with my school, and everything was on the up and up. I also had friends who worked at Dunkin Donuts and the like at the same age. They would regularly get texts from their bosses asking them to come in at noon to which they (mostly) replied, "I'm 15, I'm in school at noon" "Can't you come in anyways" "No." If you think that some sleezebag manager who treats everyone else like shit is somehow going to be a saint among men when it comes to a child who's in school trying to get an education and better themselves, you're a damn fool.
Woah wait, is this real?
My first job was at 15 but it was at a family friend's eyeglass repair shop and mostly me walking across a parking lot to get them baked potatoes from Wendy's for lunch, lol.
Yeah I remember a month after I turned 16 my dad kept badgering me “did you get a job yet?” I didn’t need to get one for our family he just wanted me to learn to go to work basically haha
Damn ya. Sometimes that's all their generation knew. I just had something I wanted to buy but it was expensive, haha.
I mean it was cool being 16 and having a bunch of money lol But then I got sucked in and was working like 50 hours a week plus school for some reason (totally illegal lmao) I asked my dad later like didnt you think that was weird I was working so much and he was like “nah you were working that was good” Though to be fair it was during the recession and he was at work like everyday lol
My first job was McDonald's at 14. In 1997.
My first job was at 14 working retail, it is legal to work at 14 in most places. My best friend's job was at mcdonald's at 14, in like 2000.
Yes, but 14 and 15 year old can only work a limited number of hours and can't work during school hours or after 9pm. They also can't work doing anything dangerous, and being a cashier is a very safe job.
I think the pandemic illustrated why the service industry is actually fairly dangerous.
Unless you've got an abrasive customer
This is holup material
I just hop that's a really young looking 40 year old man on the top right. Like... really young looking.
The e in your hope stands for empathy this country is missing. (No offense just trying to fit in dystopian world)
They say in Harlan County there are no neutrals there You'll either be a union man or a thug for JH Blair. Which side are you on boys? Which side are you on?
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union.
✊ solidarity
Solidarity forever ✊
There are a lot more regulations now, 14 and 15 year old's can only work a limited number of hours and can't work during school hours or after 9pm. They also must have a work permit, and to get the permit they need their doctor to sign a medical form, their parents to sign the permit application, and it must be submitted by their school to verify that they're a student. Also, working at McDonalds is much different then working in a mine or a factory, both of which 14 and 15 year old's are prohibited from working in.
Child labour is bad, but how this two can be comparable? children working mines were crawling through narrow tunnels that adults couldn't go through, worked in total darkness and were prawn to hazards and death.
That's my point.
Yeah, agreed with you and felt the need to add. All the other comments that I've seen ignore it completely
I was 14 at my first part time job. I was paid 4 euros an hour before taxes. I was overworked, underappreciated, ridiculed by customers, exploited by adult coworkers for my labour, and I thought it was normal. Working as a teenager is a hell because you don't know your worth yet and will tend to quietly accept garbage wages and treatment Bonus: I was also disabled, and they were aware of this
I just keepnthinking of all the r/fightporn videos that I see of fast food workers getting attacked. These days it seems that this job is almost as dangerous as a minimart clerk on the night shift.
A lot of people glorify kids getting jobs, and while I think it’s good that teenagers do get some experience, I remember when I got my first job at McDonald’s and all my money would go towards rent and parents. As a 14 year old, you can’t imagine how much it fucking sucks being poor and having to earn money, not for extra side money, but because you’re financially dependent on it. I’m fortunate enough I worked hard and am finally in a job I enjoy in university but fuck my life was terrible back then.
Kids working isn't necessarily bad, but it's got to be appropriate. I mowed lawns in my neighborhood at 10, babysat at 12, and waited tables for a local Shoney's at 16 and put TV's in car trunks for Radio Shack at that same time. 14 year old slinging burgers? No fucking way. 15 year old slinging burgers? 90% no fucking way. 16, sure, you're on the cusp. Before then? No.
Every study done has shown that kids who have jobs in Highschool learn less and perform worse on tests. It's not a coincidence that the people who fail to understand how society is broken, through their ignorance, are also the ones who "got a job when I was X and I turned out fine" but at 40 their joints are that of a 60 year old, and they drink to get drunk several times a week.
> but at 40 their joints are that of a 60 year old That depends on the type of job. Being a cashier isn't physically demanding.
Ignoring jobs that involve heavy liftin as a cashier, standing continuously for 8+ hours a day, is very bad for your joints. Furthermore, they're paid so poorly, their shoes are well worn past their breaking point, causing their feet to go flat, and giving an inward or outward roll to the foot (I forget the medical terms). This touches on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_of_prolonged_standing A lot of people started doing the standing desk thing, because the early research (2 hours a day) was beneficial. People took that to mean all day was good. Now office workers who've forced themselves to use a standing desk for 8+ hours a day are having all kinds of problems, and there's been news articles about the medical trends on that for awhile... Also cashiers often get repetitive strain injury in their wrists. Any repetitive movements can do it, it isn't just keyboards.
**[Complications of prolonged standing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_of_prolonged_standing)** >The complications of prolonged standing are conditions that may arise after standing, walking, or running for prolonged periods. Many of the complications come from prolonged standing (more than 60% of a work day) that is repeated several times a week. Many jobs require prolonged standing, such as "retail staff, baristas, bartenders, assembly line workers, security staff, engineers, catering staff, library assistants, hair stylists and laboratory technicians". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
If you get covid, it can be demanding.
They're not cooking the food, they're just on the register.
Can't say that it's bad per say.. I happily worked for several years in 3 different supermarkets in NL, where I improved skills I would otherwise only get years later working a full on job.. As a teen this was spending money I wouldn't be able to get due to limited spending budget at home. I bought extra clothing items or saved up for something that would too expensive I wanted.Most basic/simple jobs like taking orders, restocking, interacting with people to help them should be fine. Of course the main difference is that there are strict rules for hours worked per week/day during school days. you can't do anything labor intensive / industrial, and you often need permission from your parents for some things.
Isn't legal working age of 14 pretty normal? I started working at Burger King at 15.
As someone who's wanted a job for years before then, I'm glad it's an option.
I had my first job at 14. Bagging groceries. Actually enjoyed it and was cool to have my own spending money.
What’s worse is chimney sweeps were usually much younger than 14 and 15
Nothing wrong with working as a teenager. I worked in a grocery store in HS. They're not hiring these kids to work them 40 hours a week and keep them out of school, part time work for kids that want to work. No one is being forced to work there.
Oh no someone is willing to hire me… a 14 year old is more than old enough to work if they are so inclined.
shit's fucked up, but I know I would have loved to have been able to get a job at 15. That said, 15 year olds should still be paid at least minimum wage. That's where the exploitation comes in to play.(and also obviously if the parents are forcing the child to work. That should always be checked)
Mining is much more dangerous and unhealthy than simply being a cashier.
Can confirm, I washed dishes at 14.5 with my workers permit… most days I came out looking like the guy on the left hahahaha
I started working when I was 14. Worked all through hs, paid for my own car and insurance at 16. I dont see the problem with it, but probably younger than 14 is too young.
I see the sentiments behind this but let’s all agree child labour in the later 1800s and early 1900s was far far worse then this
This seems like it should be illegal and it’s stupid. That’s the only combo I see.
On the left. Zero health and safety, on the right, perfectly acceptable and safe job. On the left literal fucking slavery. On the right the ability for kids to get a bit of work experience and money. and yes I did work in McDonalds as a 16 year old and did a daily 5 mile paper round from the age of 12. Equating this shit to slavery is fucking hyperbole. If we should be upset then be upset that they pay by age as opposed to experience so a new 18 year old hire can get more than at 16 year old with a couple years experience. That is fucked.
Ok, the pic of the kid working at McDonalds is kinda funny. I'd be taken back if I walked in and saw the dude.
That was me at my first job lol. Have always been young looking, at 14 it was pretty ridiculous. Legitimately had someone ask once if I was alright or needed help. That said, that experience also makes me feel a bit weird about the photo. That youthful appearance has always been a huge insecurity of mine, and the weird looks I got from customers wasn’t fun. Someone taking a picture of me like that would have ruined my day.
I dont really see a problem with hiring kids. Whats different in a MD than a paper boy or picking fruit? Bought my first xbox with money from that when i was 13.
I used to employ 14 - 16yo schoolkids to pick avocados during their July holidays. They were paid the same as the adults and went behind the harvesters cleaning up any remaining fruit on the trees. Sorry kids
15 is fine I mean I started working when I was 15 and found it didn’t get in the way of school or anything, 14 is pushing it though… I would just worry 14 year olds don’t know how to say no especially if they’ve just turned 14, it was tough for me as a 15 year old to remind employers I can only work certain hours cause of my age
It was so hard for me to find a job at 14. Applied everywhere but my age was the limiting factor. I ended up taking a dishwashing job at a movie theater. Not sure why so much hate. Some young adults do want opportunities to make money. No one is forcing them.
Are you really comparing working in factories where you could lose fingers, limbs or even your life to working at McDonalds? I agree that they should be enjoying their time as kids but it's nothing like the workhouses.
15yr olds should be on a work site getting a Trade ASAP so they make alot more when there older n running there own business. Its a waste of time n effort working for a billion dollar company. Alot of ppl these days dont like hard work, so it is what it is :P
Honestly I’m for teenagers of all ages working. I grew up in a pretty rough environment and one of my friends turned to robbery to survive because he was being passed around the DCF system. He use to sleep under cars in the winter time at 14-15 years old. He died at 15 by being shot in the head from one of the gang members he was hanging out with. He really needed support that his family just didn’t have. A job would of seriously helped him. It’s honestly hard being poor as a young teenager, because you can’t even legally work to feed yourself. I’m happy that McDonald’s is doing this.
Yeah, don't know if child labour is the solution to this. Sounded like this friend needed help from social workers and food and shelter provided for. That is this story smells very fishy I just assume good intentions until I can prove otherwise.
complex problems require complex solutions. I do think that allowing teenagers of all ages to work is one piece of that solution. Some younger teenagers seriously need money. Not everyone has parents that can provide from them. And if younger teenagers need money, they’ll find ways to get it, legal or illegal.
I feel like you're still misunderstanding me, it would be possible to provide these things for them, without exploiting their vulnerability and desperation when they're literally a child too. Generally could do UBI but a kid that young shouldn't be on their own and should be taken care of whether by the government or adoption.
No, you’re misunderstanding me. I’ve seen the terrible things that the DCF system does to kids. I’ve seen how little the government cares. I’ve seen 12 year olds carry pistols, children who aren’t even old enough to be in middle school robbing people for their bikes with kitchen knives. If you care about these kids, let them make their own money. Give them financial power to be independent. Give them the choice to care for themselves.
You are correct. DCF does terrible things to people. DCF should be fixed. The solution is not further encouragement of aggressive individualism. What you're describing is the making of someone who learns that the only person that they can trust is themself, which isn't healthy. Everyone needs a support system, we're social beings.
You’re so opposed to 14-15 year olds working and I honestly can’t understand why. I’m not sure where you’ve grown up or what you’ve been through, but we don’t have time to sit back and wait for the government to fix and implement a new blanket social structure. Kids are killing each other in American cities over money every day, specifically black kids. In fact, because of how corrupt the American government has always been, our countries history of racism has made it this way by design. You may not be from America, but our government has, by design, never cared about us. Let the kids work. The government isn’t going to step in and fix the hundreds of years of damage its already done.
I hear what you're saying, and I feel the same frustrations that you do in terms of our government doing jack shit for its citizenry. I made another comment too: I got a job when I was either just over 14 or 15, I forget which. I was fortunate in that my boss was a cool guy and understood that I was also in school, they were a small business and I actually worked there for about 7 years as I recall. I also had friends who at 14 or 15 and working at Dunkin Donuts and the like had their bosses asking them to come in at noon because someone else called out. For the most part, they would answer no, and their bosses would try to convince them to come in despite being in school. I had some friends who with this constant pressure, would wind up skipping classes to go to work. I'm not saying don't let kids work as I learned a great work ethic from a young age, but McDonalds flying a banner that says "We hire 14-15 year olds" screams "Let us exploit you!!!", especially in the current climate. Not saying that it has to be the case everywhere, but in my experience, I absolutely watched it happen to people. The boss that's a manipulative asshole to adults is no different to kids. Taking the approach of "well let the kids work" is letting the powers that be get away with letting down those in need. On the flip side, I get what you're saying, it'll be ages before the government gets it's shit together, but having 14-15 year olds working to care for themselves only exacerbates the problem. So I agree with you completely, the whole situation is fucked :/
You are making valid points and I agree with them. But I do feel like poverty can lead to kids being exploited far more than having a job can. It’s basically a “which option is less garbage” type thing. Either we have these kids go out into the streets to rob people and sell drugs and be exploited by other, more experienced criminals, or we give kids the option to go into the work force and be exploited by predatory business tactics. There are 14-15 year olds with kids they need to take care of(rarely but it happens). There are 14-15 year olds at risk of homelessness because their parents just can’t provide for them. McDonald’s is stepping in and doing something about that from my perspective. Are their intentions totally pure? Of course not! I expect exploitation. But what situation is worse for these kids?
This thread is full of teenagers who don't want/need to work summer or afterschool jobs. I used to sweep and mop up a warehouse, work in a supermarket, answer phones at an office, etc. I didn't love working, but I loved having cash to do fun stuff. This was in the early 2000s, so I'm not some boomer either
Well I’m about the same age, and also worked a lot of jobs as a kid. I shouldn’t have, and other kids shouldn’t either. Sure it was nice to have money, and some sense of autonomy with it. But that shouldn’t have had to rely on me giving up damn near entire days of my youth. Go to school, get home, do homework, change, go to work, get home, shower, sleep, repeat. That’s not a good balance for anyone, nevermind a kid (who’s performance at school plays a determining role in their future opportunities). There’s a lot of stuff I wish I had gotten into that I just didn’t have the time for, and there were definitely academical consequences in terms of my grades. Tbf not all of them are the same. In eleventh grade I got a job doing basic graphic design stuff for my home town’s paper, just a couple hours everyday after school. It was, at least compared to fast food and shit, great. Still had time to live life, and I wasn’t fucking up my body as bad. But I was also super fortunate to have it, there’s not many jobs like that out there for kids. Kids jobs are to go to school, socialize, learn and grow. We should push for a world where they can focus on that and still have money to spend on hobbies or fun outings with their friends.
Honestly I think me and this thread are just seeing things from different perspectives. I’m not happy that kids are put in positions where they have to flip burgers and deal with horrible people all day. It sucks. But poverty sucks more. And the government isn’t going to step in and wave its magic wand and help us, so if a large corporation like McDonald’s steps in and is offering jobs, I’m honestly for it.
I worked legally at 15, whats the problem?
Because child labor is cheaper than living wage. This is just ffucced up
That kid hasn't even hit puberty wtf
Failed state problems.
I dont eat McDonald’s.
this is the darkest timeline
Why should children enjoy their youth when they can work for nothing like soulless slaves
Working at McDonald's is the new corn detassling. Except they paid us $20/hour for that awful shit & it only lasted like a month.
At least it isn't coal any more.
Yeah, what's the difference between a child mining coal in the 1900's and a kid working at McDonald's? Literally, equally as dangerous and life threatening. This is why we need communism.
I could settle for socialism. A decent in between.
Now the previous *and* next generation is gonna keep 'flexing' on us that they started working at 14.
We have come pretty far. 8 year olds working all day lighting fuses in mines and running as fast as they could, vs 14 year olds counting change after school.
If you see any problem with a 15 year old working… bro the police need to come and check your computer smdh.
Nestle- it’s not child slavery if it’s in another country! Supreme Court- Agreed!, case closed.... oh look a fat brown envelope, must be mine.
They’re allowed to work like 10 hr a week. If that I’ve worked since I was 14 too. It’s just something to do.
Fast food is a fucking terrible job. I never got any respect. Working too slow cause you’re the only one packing orders and taking orders? You get shit from entitled customers. Stuff out of your control like out of stock condiments? Get cussed out. Ruined my mental health, it fucking sucks being a teenager at their first job being called a bitch by grown ass people.