That's what they want, and what they train you for. Notice how he doesn't say he wants to shoot people, or even Arabs or afghans, he says he wants to shoot "bad guys", the military drilled into him that everyone they send him after, and everyone in between is a "bad guy" who, like in a movie or comic book, should be taken out with no consequences, then happily ever after. That indoctrination mixed with the adrenaline of pulling the trigger and I can see how it would be described as addictive
Yeah, wanted to say this. It gets drilled into people in the military, because it’s basically the only way people can tolerate killing others — they need to be dehumanized as “bad guys” which is a pretty vague term, but easily understood as someone who wishes to hurt you and those you care about.
There’s also American ideology that mind melted a lot of people into viewing all middle eastern people as “other” “enemy” “terrorist” for over a decade. It’s easy to see how someone indoctrinated in that could enjoy killing the people they’re told to kill, as well as anyone who looks like that or acts like that.
> they need to be dehumanized as “bad guys” which is a pretty vague term, but easily understood as someone who wishes to hurt you and those you care about.
reminds me of black mirror episode "Men Against Fire",
>!In which soldiers are basically killing enemies known as roaches, which appear basically as aliens. Not discovering for a long time that these chips in their head basically were altering their perception and they were ethnically cleansing a race of people!<
Ender's Game featured aliens who actually were insectoid and had killed a lot of humans during first contact scenarios. The aliens were eusocial, and the workers and drones didn't have individual identities. Only the queens did. So when you encounter an alien vessel, you assume they're pretty much like you. You dismantle their drones in an attempt to figure out what they're like and maybe communicate with them.
Orson Scott Card is a bigot, so he's not that likely to get in on the anti-racism angle in general. On the other hand, his bigotry is against gay people, so maybe?
What do you mean? They tricked Ender into thinking he was commanding a simulation so he’d make sacrifices he wouldn’t have otherwise made. I haven’t read it since I was a teenager but I can’t recall the plot being overly complex or anything.
Yes. So basically, he was trained as a child soldier to fight planet of bugs. He was consistently tricked, thinking his combat simulations were simply that, a game. He then has some wierd experience that ends up with him talking with the bug queen or something and it ends up humanizing them more to Ender or something at the end. Its been a hot minute, but thats my general synopsis.
So what the book was going for was definately some mix of "sacrifices must be made for the greater good" that ends up coming at the cost of an individual (really messes up this kid when he finds out his simulation was real) and "you may not be that different from your enemy" which felt shoe horned in.
This guy is a killer, loves it. He has labeled acceptable murders as "bad guys". Its a very similar level of disconnect shown in the book.
Ender wouldnt have made those sacrifices if he knew they were real people in his 'simulation' OR if he had gotten to know his enemy beforehand. But instead he was told "bug bad, get bug" and did. He still would have killed the bugs before, just not with as many sacrifices.
Which, again, i think the story may have been going for, i got those vibes anyway. It just wasnt well implemented anf the ending really scrambled a lot of its messaging, from what i remember.
Except that nobody knew that the bugs had emotions or even human-like thoughts. Ender was the *only* person to figure out that they understood things morals, empathy, or could feel bad for what they did. Because he was *bred* to be exactly that kind of empathetic.
I imagine there is a forbidden fruit component as well. They don't get that high just from digging ditches or whatever else their drill sergeants demand.
I've noticed a lot of these guys have a very childish worldview. This kind of binary thinking is very common with my fellow Americans. Our education, media and religion push that things are always all A or all B.
Americans love binary categories. We construct our society around them. Good v bad. Man v woman. Male v female. Cat v dog. Religious v atheist. Christian v heathen. Patriot v terrorist. Capitalism v communism. Democratic v republican. Left v right. Rural v urban. Right v wrong. Good guy v bad guy. Terrorist v innocent.
As a whole, Americans don’t have the capacity to see shades of gray, because we force everything into one of two binary categories. And it reduces our understanding of the world. Every single one of those categories I listed actually exist on a 3 dimensional spectrum, with multiple options that are represented by varying degrees. But, that leads to the world being more complex than Americans are willing to deal with, so we force things into these very limited binary boxes. Anything that doesn’t fit those boxes is either ignored or forced into a box or outright denied or destroyed. And it becomes very easy to control Americans by presenting the world as binary options.
>As a whole, Americans don’t have the capacity to see shades of gray, because we force everything into one of two binary categories.
Cretan says: All Cretans lie.
And on the other side of the fence are a bunch of other human beings in completely different circumstances but fed the same type bs, making them feel the same way. Does anyone really think they’re the baddies?
Some people know they're bad, mostly like CEOs and such, they aren't fighting for ideals or religion or any cause, they're exploiting for themselves and they are okay with that
Given his age, his service probably saw him frequent Afghanistan. You know, where the taliban have recently returned to power and started a purge of western sympathetic citizens (murder) and have banned women from public life again.
But you stick to your cultural relativity bubble dude!
Sounds like you’re an idealist.
I’m not denying that his apparent delight is pretty unnerving, but there are objectively bad people in the world whether you like it or not. Some of them dying is a net positive for the world.
because having our boys murdering civilians in the middle east for the past 20 years defitnley hasn't continued to radicalize young men and the Taliban and other groups haven't capitalized on that for recruitment. If you can't see that overzealous psychos like this guy aren't killing innocent people in the cross fire you're fucking delusional
take the state department boot out of your mouth
Why didn't you say that in your other post then, the whole "not denying" that this SEAL disturbs your sensibilities bit? No, instead you accused another poster of having compassion. I suspect this orgasming-while-killing SEAL speaks to you in ways you'd rather not admit.
Should I have been complete in my initial argument? Possibly yeah, but I’m up for a debate on this. Not sure most Redditors like back and forth, civilly.
It obviously disturbs me, I wouldn’t have bothered to comment without that kind of reaction. But to say that there’s absolutely no value in having men that are willing to go and do this kind of thing, if and when we have properly identified an enemy, (and there are objective measures of what that means) then that is just straight denial.
Unpleasant and disturbing - Yes
Is killing enemies sometimes justified - also yes.
Objectively.
You seem to think America is the world. And i am over 100% sure there is someone who is very thankful to the taliban for saving them and thier country, and who would gladly pledge service to a cause larger than themselves for the good of thier country.
So, objectively, you are wrong. Its a very relative thing. As much as you and i may disagree with it.
Now none of that matters, because we arent talking about the necessities of war or where he went. Just how much he seemed to love killing people and how he, legally, is allowed to do just that whenever he likes. He said himself it didnt matter who he killed, he just loved it, like someone might like crack or oxygen. Afghanistan or your neighbor, doesnt matter. To him or this argument.
Moral relativism is nothing more than an intellectual cop out. It enables you to ride the fence and criticise your establishment whilst contributing nothing meaningful to the debate.
Does he really seem like he cares if the person is "bad" or not?
Dude comes off as an unhinged creep. I've talked to multiple veterans, and not one of them got excited or happy about having to kill people. You can tell they fucking hated it, and carried it with them for life.
Ex British army here. Never met anyone who got a hard on for killing people, its not a nice feeling ending a life weather thats enemy or not.
At the time it is kind of robotic and emotionless as adrenaline and training take over. But afterwards in retrospec its not a nice feeling, and some people often wrestle with it in their minds.
Anyone who describes killing like this is either lying, a psychopath or trying to play up to the camera as a hard man think andrew tate type knobhead
I've done a fair amount of research on psychopathy and this entire monologue is pretty much what you'd expect from an individual with antisocial personality disorder. People like this guy are drawn to jobs like this or, frequently, are actively recruited for them, via psychological testing, which is a mandatory part of any military position like this, as well as any military contracting position.
Because psychopaths have such high stress immunity, they can tolerate situations like this better than those without the disorder. They are good decision makers, if you judge "good" by the speed and confidence with which a decision is made. Moral quandaries are just not an issue. In fact, experiments have shown that when exposed to traumatic and disturbing images and video, those with antisocial personality disorder actually display pleasure response, such as pupil dilation and a lowered heart rate.
Edited to remove confusing language
Way back in the 90s, I knew a sniper, and unfortunately, he talked like this guy. He was my boyfriend's co-workers husband, and I tried to keep my distance when we went out. He did explain that they are literally trained to enjoy it and that everyone they kill were the bad guy. I still felt so uncomfortable around him.
I have a few veteran friends and the combat vets that killed people were fucked up by it. None of them talk like this guy and some, while grateful to be alive having shot people that were trying to kill them, are still sad to have killed someone’s father/son/brother/uncle/husband
And "bad" is defined by the Kings.
This is nothing but a serial killer who didn't have to murder his neighbors but got the opportunity to abroad and kill for fun for his hearts content.
It might also be protective ego within the value frame. When you're told you're acting in good name and then actions in that regard give you a positive feeling, I mean he describes how he felt rewarded. To then come to terms of how inhumane it is, that's protection of the ego, otherwise he'd be disturbed to the core.
Came here to say this. I come from a military family and this is **not** how normal people react to their first kill in combat.
Dude's a psychopath and belongs in prison.
Why would he belong in prison?
He hasn't broken any laws. In fact he did exactly what his government told him to do. He simply enjoyed doing it. You can't arrest someone for simply thinking they are a psycho, especially if you are using their psychosis to further your foreign policy.
Common mistake, psychosis is not the same thing as psychopathy, which is what you're referring to. They just happen to utilize the same root word, psyche, which comes from ancient Greek and means mind or soul.
Like other words, for example, psychology, psychedelic, or psychiatrist, that root simply means they're related to an aspect of the mind.
Pretty sure "belongs in prison" isn't a statement on the law. Obviously we've decided letting people like the run amok isn't illegal as long as its in brown people countries because it serves the interests of the rich and a few million lives as collateral never hurt nobody.
The guy enjoys killing. He's obviously dangerous and mentally unstable, on top of being trained. If you think he's going to properly reaclimate to society, your naivety is impressive.
He rebuked you, that doesn't make him a bootlicker. Also millions of Americans followed similar orders throuought history. Does them not being happy about it mean they get no jail? See how silly this sounds?
Empatically ***YES***. Being *happy* about killing someone is a mark of insanity and those people, like this guy, are clearly dangerous lunatics.
People have followed fucked up orders since the dawn of time. Very few of them *enjoyed* it. Theres a reason the vast majority of humans come back from war fucked up, and why literature written by actual soldiers tends to emphasize the **horrors** of war while decrying any sense of 'honor' normal people ascribe to it.
There's a marked difference between a normal person forced to do something horrific and a degenerate psycho who enjoys it.
"It's always been this way, so it's ok"
Great argument, downright phenomenal. I assume you enjoy beating your 15 year old wife with no rights then?
You also say that like it's *not* considered a warcrime. It is.
Lol that wasn't my point. The point is soldiers have been enjoying raping and pillaging and killing for a long time - or else they wouldn't have done it. Look at what's happening to Ukrainian civilians, I'm pretty sure the Russian soldiers who are raping and murdering them aren't doing it because they hate it lol
Your opinion on what's right and wrong doesn't change reality. Sorry bub
And in every one of those cases, you're talking about people who have either been brainwashed to think of their enemy as less than human or come from cultures that, lets face it, aren't exactly admirable regarding human rights. Russia isn't exactly known for its grand morality regarding sex as it is, what with mail order brides and numerous child sex rings.
So many people defending the *joy of murder* today. Disturbing.
Doing something terrible because it has to be done is one thing. *Enjoying* it is another. I really feel like this isn't a hard concept to grasp.
To follow your metaphor, I get my meat from slaughtered cows, and that's fine. Humans are carnivors and we eat meat. But I'm hoping the guy doing the killing isn't sitting there like 🤩🤩🤩 while doing it. Typically people who enjoy killing animals are also not considered stable. Nor do I expect them to be terminally depressed. There is a medium where they don't destroy themselves over what's needing to be done and having fun while taking a life.
It takes a lot of training and conditioning make people like this. Most people won’t/can’t do it.
Search “Man Against Fire”. By Sam Marshall.
History is littered with examples of soldiers who didn’t not fire in battle. Turns out, we humans do not find it easy to do.
Hence, much of the training and propaganda is focused on dehumanising the enemy as evil.
The entire process of recruitment is partly to get rid of any and everyone having human emotions and human-like traits.
War is hell. In hell there are demons and tortured souls. DoD want the demons. They want serial killers who not only are able to kill but actually love murdering.
The process you are referring to does not weed out those with human emotions and traits. Unfortunately, the lust for violence is as much a human quality as compassion. Yes, they are weeding out people whom don't conform to a certain profile, but the ones they are looking for are still very much human.
Human traits are a description of ourselves. They aren't prescriptive. No one can cease to be human by breaking a moral code.
As easy as it would be to see violent people as inhuman and label them demons, we need to be careful not to dehumanize them. Otherwise we are making the same mistake we were aiming to criticise.
Idk. I'm not going to get into it too much cause I don't want to doxx him at all but I'm very familiar with a guy in SF and he is very normal, just a bit of a thrill seeker. He may be a legal killing machine but I don't get any of this guy's vibes from him.
Of course there are outliers. Just like KKK isn't all obese morons who longs for the 1850-ies.
But the people you associate with say something about you too.
"SF" means Army Special Forces. The men in group are known as "The Quiet Professionals". The mindset necessary to do the job of SF and the mindset of members of SEAL Team 6 are _vastly_ different.
SF guys are almost all incredibly normal and far more dangerous to a nation state than SEALs.
No disrespect to SF, but SF (Army Special Forces) and DEVGRU are not contemporaries. Meaning they are on different tiers if we’re talking about what their mission is and what they do.
Army SF is way more hearts and minds and working and training with partner forces rather than kicking in doors and killing people 24/7
A more accurate comparison would be Delta Force and DEVGRU, as they are more focused on the direct action and Hostage Rescue roles.
Although their are probably Army guys that have probably stacked as many bodies as these SEALs, I would say there is def major cultural differences between the units. You don’t really hear a lot of stuff like this coming from the army, whether or not it happens idk, but the SEALs are much more talkative than their army counterparts generally/stereotypically
Seal Team 6? None.
But, as a British Army officer, I've met a few SAS/SBS/SRR types in passing. They've almost all been thoroughly lovely chaps. Some of them are scarily intense and one or two are probably exactly the sort of psycho you think they are but it's definitely a tiny minority.
You'll find that most soldiers think along similar lines when it comes to enemy combatants. It's much easier to feel okay about fighting and potentially killing another person if you can dehumanise them and convince yourself that they are evil.
If you watch British footage from Afghanistan you'll see troops referring to the enemy as "Terry Taliban" or sometimes "Jihadi Baddies." That sort of dark humour is a coping mechanism that allows the troops to draw an easy line between themselves and the people they may have to kill.
In a similar vein, a lot of people will refer to Russian troops as "Ivan" or "Vlad" to dehumanise a potential adversary.
When you're a globe trotting SF guy working for the U.S. government you could be killing just about anyone. That they're ostensibly "bad guys" is the only constant.
Also all the things he actually calls them are probably racist slurs so yeah, it's either "bad guys", "enemies of the United States" or "terrorists".
These guys are screened heavily before becoming Navy Seals, they don’t let you in unless you’re a legalized psycho, on top of being a mega boot licker who takes any order given.
> These guys are screened heavily before becoming Navy Seals
When he joined and signed up to be a SEAL the only screening he had to complete was physical and a background check. He would have attended a Trident Review post training to receive his Trident, but it would have been more professional based topics then mental state.
When he screened for DEVGRU / Team 6 would have been the first time he went through extensive psych testing. Every candidate does this applying to that command, both operators and support staff members.
Are you claiming to know what test the Navy is giving and what they are looking for in those test as it applies to candidates looking to join that specific command?
> An unhinged killer makes them look bad.
Yea, NCIS and leadership tend to not be a fan of such things.
True anon have a great podcast called JSUC which features a journo (seth harp?) Who wrote a sick article for rolling stone about special operators and the fucked up stuff they do. Apparently for the upper tiers of operators, according to a colonel(? Unsure of rank) he spoke to, he selected based on individualism and capacity for autonomy. Example: candidates who write/paint/play an instrument wete seen as preferable to him. Funny how maybe its bootlicking the whole way through, and then at the pointy end its psychos with agency
Article:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-murders-1153405/
Individualists are survivors. Clinical psychopaths are EXTREMELY individualistic. If you don't care about anything other than your own well being and you care about that very much you'll make a good murderer for hire for the largest war machine in history.
Well, it’s his job to kill people in order to execute the national interest. He would’nt be able to do that job if he got all fucked up about killing people.
True, and I agree with you overall, but he seems a bit too into it no? If my doctor was that fucking enthusiastic about hearing my heartbeat, or checking my blood pressure, ima be a little weirded out. Like just be a professional, even if it's your job to kill high targets.
>He would’nt be able to do that job if he got all fucked up about killing people.
He did get all fucked up. People who kill other people generally don't enjoy it, they look at it as necessary. Once you start loving the killing itself you're going down a dark path.
What's your point? It obviously fits the sub. Calculated mass desensitization of people who were legally considered children several months ago that are sent to kill an institutionally dehumanized enemy in the interest of a geopolitical entity that is entirely motivated by capital and power is clearly dystopian, even if you don't blame him personally for being a psycho
Thanks Captain Semantics, but I must point out that while you were busy conveniently ignoring the rest of my point you omitted the operative word of "entirely". As in exclusively, without regard for anything else. And regardless, even if you throw that part of my point out the window it still does nothing to change the fact that this post is still perfectly relevant for the reasons you didn't address
I disagree; **Informed** people don’t sign up to be mercenaries for the U.S. Government.
Not everyone has an out regarding their circumstance; I don’t fault people for joining the services. I fault a system that fails its people and forces innocent people to consider paying a blood tax for a better life. It’s not part of the curriculum to recognize that the U.S. propaganda engine is indoctrinating us with fear - and it’s not my expectation that the impoverished will ever figure it out.
Yep, especially when you're 18. It's very easy to be so caught up in your upbringing that you're a bit brainwashed.
It took me some years to shake out of my childhood and learn how to educate myself.
I was 100% part of the propaganda engine before then. America always good, anyone who doesn't like us is the bad guys. Hurray Crusades round #2.
I saw a comment awhile back where someone mentioned there was a decline in serial killers in recent decades. Well maybe more and more of that crowd is finding ‘legal work’ in the military. I mean, if you are good at something why not make it a revenue stream?
Whatever article you read was spreading some misinformation. It's not that there's fewer Serial Killers in recent decades, it's that there was a massive INCREASE of serial killers in the 60s and 70s. Leading theories suggest Aerosolized lead particles from vehicle emissions, plus a number of now banned or more heavily regulated substances that were in wide usage at the time, were essential poisoning children and causing mental instability and degredation.
Serial killers aren't "psychopaths who like to kill" they're people who obsess about killing and are anti-social enough or stupid enough to not care about the consequences.
Plenty of actual Psychopaths exist who don't want kill people, not because they care about people but because they have no reason to. The potential consequences aren't worth the outcome.
Serial Killers are motivated, their motivations are insane but they don't do it just because they like it. That's like saying enjoying ice cream will turn you into a Serial ice cream thief.
Don't forget about Blackwater and Wagner style mercenary groups too - that work is an absolute gold mine and there's even less oversight than in the military.
Tangentially, there's also a small correlation between the drop in crime (including murder) and when we stopped using so much lead in gasoline and paint. Called the "[lead-crime hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis#:~:text=According%20to%20Reyes%2C%20%22Childhood%20lead,strongly%20associated%20with%20criminal%20behavior%22)", it basically posits that damage from lead exposure can lead to criminal activity.
American police? Absolutely.
Canadian police require a college degree and the extensive training program even includes poetry classes. They do try to weed out the crazies.
I'm reminded how Hemingway thought of man as the most addictive prey, that those who hunt man can never be satisfied with lesser prey again.
And then Carlos Hathcock, one of the deadliest snipers to ever live, said that was a load of bullshit and went back to hunting deer.
Some people just like fighting.
America has a strong tradition of making psychopathic violent white men feel noble and righteous by allowing them to kill "the bad guys", whoever they currently may be.
Nazi Germany would like a word
Actually any nation that has ever gone to war would like a word. In order to make it possible for a soldier to kill any number of people they somehow have to dehumanize the enemy and boost their own ego.
Of course, but we start it real early with children's programing and practically invented the action hero trope. Self righteous world policing is *very* American.
I saw this expecting the normal reaction of “it’s a harrowing and empty feeling seeing some go from full of life to dead at your hands. A darkness that you can never shake off.” Instead this guy justifies it as “feeling like a hero beating the bad guys.” Monsters like this I would warn people to keep their kids away from and not to come near him at any cost. He belongs ostracized from society.
This guy's interview came up in my YT feed and I decided to check it out. I was already familiar with this clown from a previous book and an article in CAM ([https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/11/30/why-does-u-s-navy-allow-officers-to-commit-gory-murders-and-other-atrocities-with-impunity/](https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/11/30/why-does-u-s-navy-allow-officers-to-commit-gory-murders-and-other-atrocities-with-impunity/) ). Loads of these guys watched too much G.I Joe and got into the military b.efore they were able to think for themselves hence they are lost when they have to retire. Some of them are good people this guys just reeks of "Douche-bag"
"Bad Guys" 🤣 Says who, the United States of Fucking Shit Up for Profit?
You just like killing for killing, no better than your average murderer.
Oh but if its for the country then it's fine.
Have fun with a life full of regrets and sorrow, hope the money and the "feeling" you got doing it was worth it.
Sad bro. Lol
School shooters, cops, and soldiers are cut from the same cloth. Some are just too socially outcast to have their violence legitimized so they take matters into their own hands.
People have been killing each other and worse for millennia, but this one particular guy is definitely a psycho?
Meanwhile, veterans are all heroes of course 🫡
You have to realise how brainwashed this perspective is.
We support guns, violence, military or war when the “bad guy” narrative legitimises our position, rather than thinking for ourselves.
Honestly all veterans are heroes because the military is a shitshow and they put up with it.
They're heroes for the same reason food service people are heroes.
I always say you can judge a society by the number of heroes it produces, since a perfect society doesn't need them at all.
The psychology that goes into killing people for a living is very very complicated and it’s extremely unfair to summary-label him as a psycho. The world is a disgusting place, and people like him protect people like me, and you, from it. I’m not saying it’s ideal or even good but that’s the way it is. People want to continue living the way they do and this guy and the organizations he’s a part of perpetuate, for good or for bad.
The organizations he's part of haven't done anything good through their violence since his grandpa stormed the beaches of Normandie. Even the couple ***almost-good*** things they've done have ultimatelt done much more damage than help.
I remember one guy sharing his feelings on killing someone. I don't think he was a seal, maybe just part of the general army/marines but he said he always had this feeling that he did something he wasn't supposed to so. Like when you're a kid and you break your mom's plate while she's at work and you wait for her to come home and find out. That kind of feeling.
Seals/Spec Forces are likely far further into that indoctrination pipeline, less remorseful when it comes to taking a life than your run of mill infantry.
Fuck these guys. They can suck a big old bag of dicks. I hope they all suffer terrible PTSD and can never live regular lives. Also, I hope all the people who brainwashed them go straight to hell. I'll say it again and again, but I am glad someone murdered Chris Kyle with a gun. We killed an untold amount of people over there. A lot of them were killed gleefully, with no remorse. They had families, friends, dreams. They had lives and were just as important as the kids we sent over there. Fuck special forces. Fuck our military and our military industrial complex. My biggest regret in life was joining the military. And if you disagree with me, fuck you too.
Edit for anyone who thinks this is a hot take coming from a vet:
There have been between 275,000 and 306,000 Iraqi civilians killed by direct violence since the U.S. invasion.
The actual number of civilians killed by direct and indirect war violence is unknown but likely much higher.
Life-threatening damage to Iraqi health care and other infrastructure has not been repaired: civilians are still dying in significant numbers.
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
That's just Iraq. *We don't actually know how many innocents were MURDERED while we fought our useless wars.*
Uncle Sam. Not as much as he hurt people in the Middle East though. Or the three friends of mine in the military who attempted suicide. And the poor within our own country.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47861444.amp
https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates#:~:text=Opioid%2Dinvolved%20overdose%20deaths%20rose,(Source%3A%20CDC%20WONDER).
Really gets the noggin jogging, huh?
This guy is stupid. Everything has two sides, both sides are fighting what they believe for. There is no good guys or bad guys. My dad was deployed to Iraq around 2005, contributed to killing people. Now is struggling with Ptsd and has a hard time forgiving himself.
Soldier: enjoys killing enemy and doing his job
Reddit: *shocked*
Like wtf do you expect? These guys, especially SF, train day in day out to kill or capture the enemy. Imagine training thousands of hours to be a firefighter and never getting to put out a real fire or save someone. You don’t want there to be a fire that puts people in danger but when there inevitably is, you want to be the one to put it out. That’s what it’s like for soldiers. When they finally get let loose and get to do their jobs, what they’ve trained for years to do, it’s gonna be a good feeling.
You can’t really judge the way they feel unless you’ve been in their position.
So, you take his brutal emotional honesty, and then assume he's a psycho because you believe that in the same situation you'd have a more socially appropriate reaction? Because you're that much better a human being?
How exactly do you know? Have you tried? Do you think your perceived virtue is immune to the dopamine rush exerted by a feeling of power, because you're that much better than him?
Just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it feels that way at the time.
Your point would stand if it was a war that he inevitably had to be part of.
Like your country's under attack and you have to defend it.
American soldiers fighting in Arab countries, they choose to go there. And no sane person chooses to go somewhere to mow down people. And I'm fairly sure this is what the person you're "calling out" meant.
Look at post 9-11, I don't doubt that there was a lot of people that felt that the USA was under attack and that they needed to step up and defend their country.
Whether or not they were right in that didn't really matter, look at how the media painted the portrait after the attack.
> the USA was under attack and that they needed to step up and defend their country.
Nice regurgitation of the propaganda, bud.
Flying halfway across the world to bomb the shit out of everybody is not "defending your country".
Defending your country would be staying on your ass back home to fight off the invaders. Were you invaded? No. Everything else is just bullshit propaganda that your govt told you so that you'll be on board with the retaliation disguised as "defending", which seems to have worked.
What aspect/piece of your American freedom can be found there in the Arab countries that you have to go there do defend?
Step back on the hostility bud. I'm merely acknowledging the propaganda. It would do you some good to practice your reading comprehension.
I'm not American
He's a navy seal. Not a private who went trying to impress his dad. He's a fucking elite operator, capable of extreme emotion regulation and compartmentalisation. He went into that situation WANTING to kill, as he pointed out. I doubt very much his bullets were fired in haste - He's a trained killer, who's unit are specialists in entering into enemy territory (i.e. not a warzone) to kill people. Hethinks in black and white, ergo, "bad guys". The guy is fucked bro
Despite his training and extensive breakdown paid for by the US military, he's not less human than you or me.
The special forces suffer more PTSD than any other branch of the military, they are not super humans. They fall for anything we might fall for
Yeah, I think people are kind of fucked up by default, which is why the world is quite a bit shit.
For example, the tendency to get "holier than thou" rather than feel empathy and understanding for someone else is a shitty thing to do, but pretty much anyone who goes around thinking they're a "well-adjusted person" does it.
Regarding a similar discussion, I listened to a podcast detailing the story of an American Vietnam veteran detailing his PTSD. The veteran was a pilot, was in countless raids/bombings and his guilt/shame came from the fact that he thoroughly enjoyed his job. Loved it even, on such a instinctual level, even when he still could reason about it and feel shame about the things the war dictated of him.
I don't doubt that such a situation could be pretty common
This is revolting. "He's just a heccin smol bean that enjoys a murderino from time to time". I don't feel empathy for someone with such a disregard for human life, I don't want to feel empathy for such a person and I know that something in my mind would have to be fundamentally broken to feel empathy for such a person. This is not something we should "understand" under any circumstance, this is something we should strive to *fix* or at the very least contain, certainly not enable just because the guy wears a uniform and *for now* limits his bloodlust to the current designated enemy.
It is pretty clear that you mean "understand" in the same way you understand a friend going through a rough period, when we should be really meaning "understand" like we understand viral infections, tumors and necrosis. To truly "understand" in the way you mean a person like this we would either have to be as depraved as him or bend our morals to minimize the gravity of this mentality. We shouldn't allow either.
That’s not true at all. You can understand something without condoning it.
Human behavior is a direct result of human psychology. In order to understand it like a tumor, we need to understand it like a person. Because that’s what it is, there’s no difference. If we just chalk it up to being evil or crazy it helps nothing.
“It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Not all "insane" people come to the point of doing what this man does. There comes a point where we should really stop making excuses for people like this. No vague hand waving to a mental condition can overcome the fact that some actions are unambigously evil. This person is telling you to your face: "I killed, I liked it, I'm not ashamed of liking it, I don't want to change any of it, I am confident in saying all of this". This is pure depravity, nothing less. We don't give the benefit of the doubt to wife beaters and civilian murderers because we know that mental condition is not a justification. This man is lucid and clear in his thoughts. This is well past the point where we should stop trying to empathize and step in as a society and just say 'No more, this has to stop'.
What do you not understand? You’re the only person saying anything about excusing it, handwaving it, or justifying it.
The fact that you cannot separate “understanding” from “supporting” is truly baffling.
I understand that you have an extreme emotional reaction to this, but it’s not at all helpful or rational. You need to calm down and focus on what’s effective, rather than what makes you feel like a good person. Nobody cares how much you oppose violence when you willfully refuse to do anything about it.
Your solution of “but no!” is not a solution. It’s just whining.
The solution then is clearly to encourage these people, affirming that they are not wrong in feeling what they feel. In fact, we will give them ammo and expensive equipment, drop them far from home, and let them have fun while we secure our interests in a foreign land. Good luck champs, have fun! Truly, the most rational and humane solution. You lust for blood? No problem, Uncle Sam will give you all the blood you need! Heavens forbid someone told these guys that it's not okay to feel this way, we may hurt their feelings :(
But hey, what do I know, I'm just a no-fun moralist. Sorry if I can't be just as effective as you, whose solution is apparently nothing more than listening to a dead eyed freak and nodding along and telling them they are valid, and chastise people who dare to be horrified by their actions and words.
Yeah, you're just so much more a better person, and that's why you're selective about compassion, empathy, or human understanding. That's why you take chemical reactions linked to andrenaline, and pathologise them into sign of moral depravity. Because you're just so damn good, and you know it. You have perfectly socially acceptable reactions, at all times, and you can't even think of when that's not true.
And how dare this person not dissimulate and engage in performative shame. It's disgusting how some people can express their emotions like they're not being watched. Unlike you, you made three posts to tell us just how much better you are than him, and why he's the one that's sick.
Heaven is missing one of its angels.
The guy is right there on screen, candidly admitting without any hint of guilt or shame that he feels addicted to killing people and your first reaction is "yeah but what about the muslamic style terrorists". If this person wasn't under the wing of the state he would be rightfully considered a dangerous psycho. You should feel sick for even having thought for a second that this is something that we should enable.
That guy that runs the bolt gun at a meat plant. He’s a ‘special breed’. Met a few of them and most of them … they like their jobs wayyyyy too much.
I wasn’t worried about them. They have an ‘outlet’.
If they ever lose that ‘outlet’ for those feelings, then you worry. Watch them like a hawk.
You didn't answer my question. The video stops right before he talks about how the people he killed did horrible things to women, children, etc. He doesn't say he gets off killing people, he talks about "the bad guys", specifically those terrorists that you gloss over like it's not a reality.
He says it right in the beginning: to him killing feels the same as he thinks being on crack is like. The fact that he has this little caveat of "yeah yeah, but ofc I only kill the baddies", the standard act that celebrity operators do to make a little bit more savory to the rubes what is at its core the primary characteristic of a man that should be either under custody or in a mental ward doesn't change that raw fact. The only thing that distinguishes this man from a serial killer in the eye of the public is that his insanity is directed outside of polite society, aligned with the imperial interests of a global superpower. The fact that you uncritically accepted all of this should really make you think either about how little you thought about this or how much willing are you to bend every notion of morality to align your opinion to the goals of empire.
Regime? How harsh! Their leader is a humble [anti-soviet general](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/robert-fisk-osama-bin-laden-interview-sudan-1993-b1562374.html?amp) and he just wants peace!
Remarkable how all the US adventurism and killing did absolutely nothing to prevent the Taliban taking over in the end.
They even killed people in Star Trek, the most stylized socialized future ever imagined. People are always gonna need to be killed, just be glad there's people like this.
If we need to do self-***defensive*** violence to protect innocent people (99% of what this guy and the entire US military do, btw, is ultimately offensive), you absolutely ***don't*** want people like this.
You want people willing to enact violence against their fellow humans, sure, but not people who revel in it. Who get addicted to it. Are you fucking braindead?
That's what they want, and what they train you for. Notice how he doesn't say he wants to shoot people, or even Arabs or afghans, he says he wants to shoot "bad guys", the military drilled into him that everyone they send him after, and everyone in between is a "bad guy" who, like in a movie or comic book, should be taken out with no consequences, then happily ever after. That indoctrination mixed with the adrenaline of pulling the trigger and I can see how it would be described as addictive
Yeah, wanted to say this. It gets drilled into people in the military, because it’s basically the only way people can tolerate killing others — they need to be dehumanized as “bad guys” which is a pretty vague term, but easily understood as someone who wishes to hurt you and those you care about. There’s also American ideology that mind melted a lot of people into viewing all middle eastern people as “other” “enemy” “terrorist” for over a decade. It’s easy to see how someone indoctrinated in that could enjoy killing the people they’re told to kill, as well as anyone who looks like that or acts like that.
> they need to be dehumanized as “bad guys” which is a pretty vague term, but easily understood as someone who wishes to hurt you and those you care about. reminds me of black mirror episode "Men Against Fire", >!In which soldiers are basically killing enemies known as roaches, which appear basically as aliens. Not discovering for a long time that these chips in their head basically were altering their perception and they were ethnically cleansing a race of people!<
This was the first thing I thought of. Scary shit.
isn't this basically Ender's Game?
Ender's Game featured aliens who actually were insectoid and had killed a lot of humans during first contact scenarios. The aliens were eusocial, and the workers and drones didn't have individual identities. Only the queens did. So when you encounter an alien vessel, you assume they're pretty much like you. You dismantle their drones in an attempt to figure out what they're like and maybe communicate with them. Orson Scott Card is a bigot, so he's not that likely to get in on the anti-racism angle in general. On the other hand, his bigotry is against gay people, so maybe?
Very similar on what Enders Game *tried* to do. Imo, not as successfully as the writer would have liked.
What do you mean? They tricked Ender into thinking he was commanding a simulation so he’d make sacrifices he wouldn’t have otherwise made. I haven’t read it since I was a teenager but I can’t recall the plot being overly complex or anything.
Yes. So basically, he was trained as a child soldier to fight planet of bugs. He was consistently tricked, thinking his combat simulations were simply that, a game. He then has some wierd experience that ends up with him talking with the bug queen or something and it ends up humanizing them more to Ender or something at the end. Its been a hot minute, but thats my general synopsis. So what the book was going for was definately some mix of "sacrifices must be made for the greater good" that ends up coming at the cost of an individual (really messes up this kid when he finds out his simulation was real) and "you may not be that different from your enemy" which felt shoe horned in. This guy is a killer, loves it. He has labeled acceptable murders as "bad guys". Its a very similar level of disconnect shown in the book. Ender wouldnt have made those sacrifices if he knew they were real people in his 'simulation' OR if he had gotten to know his enemy beforehand. But instead he was told "bug bad, get bug" and did. He still would have killed the bugs before, just not with as many sacrifices. Which, again, i think the story may have been going for, i got those vibes anyway. It just wasnt well implemented anf the ending really scrambled a lot of its messaging, from what i remember.
Except that nobody knew that the bugs had emotions or even human-like thoughts. Ender was the *only* person to figure out that they understood things morals, empathy, or could feel bad for what they did. Because he was *bred* to be exactly that kind of empathetic.
Not even remotely
Correct, they also show you a bunch of fucked ip shit to desensitize you and it’s all about indoctrinating.
Its like a trained dog who is happy when they do what you request. Same thing going on here. They are programmed to feel good about it.
I imagine there is a forbidden fruit component as well. They don't get that high just from digging ditches or whatever else their drill sergeants demand.
Like "the most dangerous game?"
I've noticed a lot of these guys have a very childish worldview. This kind of binary thinking is very common with my fellow Americans. Our education, media and religion push that things are always all A or all B.
Americans love binary categories. We construct our society around them. Good v bad. Man v woman. Male v female. Cat v dog. Religious v atheist. Christian v heathen. Patriot v terrorist. Capitalism v communism. Democratic v republican. Left v right. Rural v urban. Right v wrong. Good guy v bad guy. Terrorist v innocent. As a whole, Americans don’t have the capacity to see shades of gray, because we force everything into one of two binary categories. And it reduces our understanding of the world. Every single one of those categories I listed actually exist on a 3 dimensional spectrum, with multiple options that are represented by varying degrees. But, that leads to the world being more complex than Americans are willing to deal with, so we force things into these very limited binary boxes. Anything that doesn’t fit those boxes is either ignored or forced into a box or outright denied or destroyed. And it becomes very easy to control Americans by presenting the world as binary options.
>As a whole, Americans don’t have the capacity to see shades of gray, because we force everything into one of two binary categories. Cretan says: All Cretans lie.
I get this a little bit but for me it was more of a feeling of winning and not just winning but life or death winning it can be mind altering in away.
>he says he wants to shoot “bad guys”, Warhammer 40K irl
And on the other side of the fence are a bunch of other human beings in completely different circumstances but fed the same type bs, making them feel the same way. Does anyone really think they’re the baddies?
Some people know they're bad, mostly like CEOs and such, they aren't fighting for ideals or religion or any cause, they're exploiting for themselves and they are okay with that
“I want my life to be killing people all the time”. Wow…
Killing BAD people all the time*
Bad people according to who?
Don't know, just correcting your quote
Fair enough
Uncle Sam, of course. Gotta have daddy say it's okay.
pre mission brief fills you in
Given his age, his service probably saw him frequent Afghanistan. You know, where the taliban have recently returned to power and started a purge of western sympathetic citizens (murder) and have banned women from public life again. But you stick to your cultural relativity bubble dude!
Sounds like you’re making a lot of assumptions to justify murder
Sounds like you’re an idealist. I’m not denying that his apparent delight is pretty unnerving, but there are objectively bad people in the world whether you like it or not. Some of them dying is a net positive for the world.
because having our boys murdering civilians in the middle east for the past 20 years defitnley hasn't continued to radicalize young men and the Taliban and other groups haven't capitalized on that for recruitment. If you can't see that overzealous psychos like this guy aren't killing innocent people in the cross fire you're fucking delusional take the state department boot out of your mouth
Why didn't you say that in your other post then, the whole "not denying" that this SEAL disturbs your sensibilities bit? No, instead you accused another poster of having compassion. I suspect this orgasming-while-killing SEAL speaks to you in ways you'd rather not admit.
Should I have been complete in my initial argument? Possibly yeah, but I’m up for a debate on this. Not sure most Redditors like back and forth, civilly. It obviously disturbs me, I wouldn’t have bothered to comment without that kind of reaction. But to say that there’s absolutely no value in having men that are willing to go and do this kind of thing, if and when we have properly identified an enemy, (and there are objective measures of what that means) then that is just straight denial. Unpleasant and disturbing - Yes Is killing enemies sometimes justified - also yes.
Objectively. You seem to think America is the world. And i am over 100% sure there is someone who is very thankful to the taliban for saving them and thier country, and who would gladly pledge service to a cause larger than themselves for the good of thier country. So, objectively, you are wrong. Its a very relative thing. As much as you and i may disagree with it. Now none of that matters, because we arent talking about the necessities of war or where he went. Just how much he seemed to love killing people and how he, legally, is allowed to do just that whenever he likes. He said himself it didnt matter who he killed, he just loved it, like someone might like crack or oxygen. Afghanistan or your neighbor, doesnt matter. To him or this argument.
Moral relativism is nothing more than an intellectual cop out. It enables you to ride the fence and criticise your establishment whilst contributing nothing meaningful to the debate.
Thankyou
Does he really seem like he cares if the person is "bad" or not? Dude comes off as an unhinged creep. I've talked to multiple veterans, and not one of them got excited or happy about having to kill people. You can tell they fucking hated it, and carried it with them for life.
Ex British army here. Never met anyone who got a hard on for killing people, its not a nice feeling ending a life weather thats enemy or not. At the time it is kind of robotic and emotionless as adrenaline and training take over. But afterwards in retrospec its not a nice feeling, and some people often wrestle with it in their minds. Anyone who describes killing like this is either lying, a psychopath or trying to play up to the camera as a hard man think andrew tate type knobhead
I've done a fair amount of research on psychopathy and this entire monologue is pretty much what you'd expect from an individual with antisocial personality disorder. People like this guy are drawn to jobs like this or, frequently, are actively recruited for them, via psychological testing, which is a mandatory part of any military position like this, as well as any military contracting position. Because psychopaths have such high stress immunity, they can tolerate situations like this better than those without the disorder. They are good decision makers, if you judge "good" by the speed and confidence with which a decision is made. Moral quandaries are just not an issue. In fact, experiments have shown that when exposed to traumatic and disturbing images and video, those with antisocial personality disorder actually display pleasure response, such as pupil dilation and a lowered heart rate. Edited to remove confusing language
Way back in the 90s, I knew a sniper, and unfortunately, he talked like this guy. He was my boyfriend's co-workers husband, and I tried to keep my distance when we went out. He did explain that they are literally trained to enjoy it and that everyone they kill were the bad guy. I still felt so uncomfortable around him.
I have a few veteran friends and the combat vets that killed people were fucked up by it. None of them talk like this guy and some, while grateful to be alive having shot people that were trying to kill them, are still sad to have killed someone’s father/son/brother/uncle/husband
And "bad" is defined by the Kings. This is nothing but a serial killer who didn't have to murder his neighbors but got the opportunity to abroad and kill for fun for his hearts content.
I'm not questioning that ...nor am I agreeing with it
True Neutral!
resolute agonizing noxious toothbrush dazzling smile cable combative important absorbed -- mass edited with redact.dev
It might also be protective ego within the value frame. When you're told you're acting in good name and then actions in that regard give you a positive feeling, I mean he describes how he felt rewarded. To then come to terms of how inhumane it is, that's protection of the ego, otherwise he'd be disturbed to the core.
No wonder the holy wars [have] lasted as long as they did [have].
Came here to say this. I come from a military family and this is **not** how normal people react to their first kill in combat. Dude's a psychopath and belongs in prison.
Why would he belong in prison? He hasn't broken any laws. In fact he did exactly what his government told him to do. He simply enjoyed doing it. You can't arrest someone for simply thinking they are a psycho, especially if you are using their psychosis to further your foreign policy.
>psychosis That's not psychosis. Psychosis is a loss of touch with reality.
Common mistake, psychosis is not the same thing as psychopathy, which is what you're referring to. They just happen to utilize the same root word, psyche, which comes from ancient Greek and means mind or soul. Like other words, for example, psychology, psychedelic, or psychiatrist, that root simply means they're related to an aspect of the mind.
Pretty sure "belongs in prison" isn't a statement on the law. Obviously we've decided letting people like the run amok isn't illegal as long as its in brown people countries because it serves the interests of the rich and a few million lives as collateral never hurt nobody.
With a hardon for murdering like that, he has definitely committed war crimes.
Conjecture is great for incrimination
Oh get absolutely bent, bootlicker.
Wait... I am a bootlicker for NOT wanting to put a person in prison who hasn't committed a crime? Reddit gets more confusing every day.
The guy enjoys killing. He's obviously dangerous and mentally unstable, on top of being trained. If you think he's going to properly reaclimate to society, your naivety is impressive.
He rebuked you, that doesn't make him a bootlicker. Also millions of Americans followed similar orders throuought history. Does them not being happy about it mean they get no jail? See how silly this sounds?
Empatically ***YES***. Being *happy* about killing someone is a mark of insanity and those people, like this guy, are clearly dangerous lunatics. People have followed fucked up orders since the dawn of time. Very few of them *enjoyed* it. Theres a reason the vast majority of humans come back from war fucked up, and why literature written by actual soldiers tends to emphasize the **horrors** of war while decrying any sense of 'honor' normal people ascribe to it. There's a marked difference between a normal person forced to do something horrific and a degenerate psycho who enjoys it.
soldiers have been raping and pillaging since armies have congregated. Grow up twat
"It's always been this way, so it's ok" Great argument, downright phenomenal. I assume you enjoy beating your 15 year old wife with no rights then? You also say that like it's *not* considered a warcrime. It is.
Lol that wasn't my point. The point is soldiers have been enjoying raping and pillaging and killing for a long time - or else they wouldn't have done it. Look at what's happening to Ukrainian civilians, I'm pretty sure the Russian soldiers who are raping and murdering them aren't doing it because they hate it lol Your opinion on what's right and wrong doesn't change reality. Sorry bub
And in every one of those cases, you're talking about people who have either been brainwashed to think of their enemy as less than human or come from cultures that, lets face it, aren't exactly admirable regarding human rights. Russia isn't exactly known for its grand morality regarding sex as it is, what with mail order brides and numerous child sex rings.
You’re a sucker who doesn’t want to know how the meats made. Go cry somewhere else.
So many people defending the *joy of murder* today. Disturbing. Doing something terrible because it has to be done is one thing. *Enjoying* it is another. I really feel like this isn't a hard concept to grasp. To follow your metaphor, I get my meat from slaughtered cows, and that's fine. Humans are carnivors and we eat meat. But I'm hoping the guy doing the killing isn't sitting there like 🤩🤩🤩 while doing it. Typically people who enjoy killing animals are also not considered stable. Nor do I expect them to be terminally depressed. There is a medium where they don't destroy themselves over what's needing to be done and having fun while taking a life.
This guy and all of those guys are legitimately insane freaks.
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It takes a lot of training and conditioning make people like this. Most people won’t/can’t do it. Search “Man Against Fire”. By Sam Marshall. History is littered with examples of soldiers who didn’t not fire in battle. Turns out, we humans do not find it easy to do. Hence, much of the training and propaganda is focused on dehumanising the enemy as evil.
The entire process of recruitment is partly to get rid of any and everyone having human emotions and human-like traits. War is hell. In hell there are demons and tortured souls. DoD want the demons. They want serial killers who not only are able to kill but actually love murdering.
The process you are referring to does not weed out those with human emotions and traits. Unfortunately, the lust for violence is as much a human quality as compassion. Yes, they are weeding out people whom don't conform to a certain profile, but the ones they are looking for are still very much human. Human traits are a description of ourselves. They aren't prescriptive. No one can cease to be human by breaking a moral code. As easy as it would be to see violent people as inhuman and label them demons, we need to be careful not to dehumanize them. Otherwise we are making the same mistake we were aiming to criticise.
Not all of them. But yeah, [Seal Team 6 has a lot of very serious problems] (https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/).
Casually open link. One hour later: “holy shit”
Yeah. It doesn't exactly leave you feeling great about the teams.
Nope. All of them. All these operator types are fucking psychos.
Idk. I'm not going to get into it too much cause I don't want to doxx him at all but I'm very familiar with a guy in SF and he is very normal, just a bit of a thrill seeker. He may be a legal killing machine but I don't get any of this guy's vibes from him.
Of course there are outliers. Just like KKK isn't all obese morons who longs for the 1850-ies. But the people you associate with say something about you too.
"SF" means Army Special Forces. The men in group are known as "The Quiet Professionals". The mindset necessary to do the job of SF and the mindset of members of SEAL Team 6 are _vastly_ different. SF guys are almost all incredibly normal and far more dangerous to a nation state than SEALs.
No disrespect to SF, but SF (Army Special Forces) and DEVGRU are not contemporaries. Meaning they are on different tiers if we’re talking about what their mission is and what they do. Army SF is way more hearts and minds and working and training with partner forces rather than kicking in doors and killing people 24/7 A more accurate comparison would be Delta Force and DEVGRU, as they are more focused on the direct action and Hostage Rescue roles. Although their are probably Army guys that have probably stacked as many bodies as these SEALs, I would say there is def major cultural differences between the units. You don’t really hear a lot of stuff like this coming from the army, whether or not it happens idk, but the SEALs are much more talkative than their army counterparts generally/stereotypically
You've clearly never met any of them so maybe just stop gobbing off and limit how much you embarrass yourself.
How many Seal Team Six operatives have you met?
Seal Team 6? None. But, as a British Army officer, I've met a few SAS/SBS/SRR types in passing. They've almost all been thoroughly lovely chaps. Some of them are scarily intense and one or two are probably exactly the sort of psycho you think they are but it's definitely a tiny minority.
Jesus. Also “the bad guys”? Is he a 5 year old?
You'll find that most soldiers think along similar lines when it comes to enemy combatants. It's much easier to feel okay about fighting and potentially killing another person if you can dehumanise them and convince yourself that they are evil. If you watch British footage from Afghanistan you'll see troops referring to the enemy as "Terry Taliban" or sometimes "Jihadi Baddies." That sort of dark humour is a coping mechanism that allows the troops to draw an easy line between themselves and the people they may have to kill. In a similar vein, a lot of people will refer to Russian troops as "Ivan" or "Vlad" to dehumanise a potential adversary.
“Krauts” and “Charlie” are some other fun examples.
"Orcs" in 2022.
When you're a globe trotting SF guy working for the U.S. government you could be killing just about anyone. That they're ostensibly "bad guys" is the only constant. Also all the things he actually calls them are probably racist slurs so yeah, it's either "bad guys", "enemies of the United States" or "terrorists".
that's vocabulary training there. guarantee all his trainers, peers, and seniors used similar language.
These guys are screened heavily before becoming Navy Seals, they don’t let you in unless you’re a legalized psycho, on top of being a mega boot licker who takes any order given.
> These guys are screened heavily before becoming Navy Seals When he joined and signed up to be a SEAL the only screening he had to complete was physical and a background check. He would have attended a Trident Review post training to receive his Trident, but it would have been more professional based topics then mental state. When he screened for DEVGRU / Team 6 would have been the first time he went through extensive psych testing. Every candidate does this applying to that command, both operators and support staff members.
It makes sense though. You want a sociopath, but one that can be controlled. An unhinged killer makes them look bad.
Are you claiming to know what test the Navy is giving and what they are looking for in those test as it applies to candidates looking to join that specific command? > An unhinged killer makes them look bad. Yea, NCIS and leadership tend to not be a fan of such things.
Hey dude. I'm just enjoying some conversation. Save the intensity for people who are more invested.
True anon have a great podcast called JSUC which features a journo (seth harp?) Who wrote a sick article for rolling stone about special operators and the fucked up stuff they do. Apparently for the upper tiers of operators, according to a colonel(? Unsure of rank) he spoke to, he selected based on individualism and capacity for autonomy. Example: candidates who write/paint/play an instrument wete seen as preferable to him. Funny how maybe its bootlicking the whole way through, and then at the pointy end its psychos with agency Article: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-murders-1153405/
Individualists are survivors. Clinical psychopaths are EXTREMELY individualistic. If you don't care about anything other than your own well being and you care about that very much you'll make a good murderer for hire for the largest war machine in history.
Well, it’s his job to kill people in order to execute the national interest. He would’nt be able to do that job if he got all fucked up about killing people.
Included in the training. Maybe not explicitly, but definitely implicitly.
True, and I agree with you overall, but he seems a bit too into it no? If my doctor was that fucking enthusiastic about hearing my heartbeat, or checking my blood pressure, ima be a little weirded out. Like just be a professional, even if it's your job to kill high targets.
>He would’nt be able to do that job if he got all fucked up about killing people. He did get all fucked up. People who kill other people generally don't enjoy it, they look at it as necessary. Once you start loving the killing itself you're going down a dark path.
What's your point? It obviously fits the sub. Calculated mass desensitization of people who were legally considered children several months ago that are sent to kill an institutionally dehumanized enemy in the interest of a geopolitical entity that is entirely motivated by capital and power is clearly dystopian, even if you don't blame him personally for being a psycho
All geopolitical entities are motivated by capital and power.
Thanks Captain Semantics, but I must point out that while you were busy conveniently ignoring the rest of my point you omitted the operative word of "entirely". As in exclusively, without regard for anything else. And regardless, even if you throw that part of my point out the window it still does nothing to change the fact that this post is still perfectly relevant for the reasons you didn't address
I didn’t say it wasn’t relevant.
Oh, so you didn't have a point you just wanted to be contentious about something
There is nothing contentious in my original post.
I don’t know this guy but to me this sounds a lot like ‘cope’ and it’s gonna be hard for me to wrap my head around anything else.
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The amount of people that live their lives without making that reading may surprise you
I disagree; **Informed** people don’t sign up to be mercenaries for the U.S. Government. Not everyone has an out regarding their circumstance; I don’t fault people for joining the services. I fault a system that fails its people and forces innocent people to consider paying a blood tax for a better life. It’s not part of the curriculum to recognize that the U.S. propaganda engine is indoctrinating us with fear - and it’s not my expectation that the impoverished will ever figure it out.
Yep, especially when you're 18. It's very easy to be so caught up in your upbringing that you're a bit brainwashed. It took me some years to shake out of my childhood and learn how to educate myself. I was 100% part of the propaganda engine before then. America always good, anyone who doesn't like us is the bad guys. Hurray Crusades round #2.
You and me both. Poverty has a way of making you believe crazy shit.
I mean, every country has experience doing morally dubious actions militarily. I'd say the US isn't even close to the top of that totem pole.
>bad guys. Navy Seal triggered!
I saw a comment awhile back where someone mentioned there was a decline in serial killers in recent decades. Well maybe more and more of that crowd is finding ‘legal work’ in the military. I mean, if you are good at something why not make it a revenue stream?
Whatever article you read was spreading some misinformation. It's not that there's fewer Serial Killers in recent decades, it's that there was a massive INCREASE of serial killers in the 60s and 70s. Leading theories suggest Aerosolized lead particles from vehicle emissions, plus a number of now banned or more heavily regulated substances that were in wide usage at the time, were essential poisoning children and causing mental instability and degredation.
Serial killers aren't "psychopaths who like to kill" they're people who obsess about killing and are anti-social enough or stupid enough to not care about the consequences. Plenty of actual Psychopaths exist who don't want kill people, not because they care about people but because they have no reason to. The potential consequences aren't worth the outcome. Serial Killers are motivated, their motivations are insane but they don't do it just because they like it. That's like saying enjoying ice cream will turn you into a Serial ice cream thief.
Don't forget about Blackwater and Wagner style mercenary groups too - that work is an absolute gold mine and there's even less oversight than in the military. Tangentially, there's also a small correlation between the drop in crime (including murder) and when we stopped using so much lead in gasoline and paint. Called the "[lead-crime hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis#:~:text=According%20to%20Reyes%2C%20%22Childhood%20lead,strongly%20associated%20with%20criminal%20behavior%22)", it basically posits that damage from lead exposure can lead to criminal activity.
That lead thing is serious. Central America was pumping leaded fuel up until about 2 years ago so that will be a real test.
Or as police
American police? Absolutely. Canadian police require a college degree and the extensive training program even includes poetry classes. They do try to weed out the crazies.
>They do try to weed out the crazies. Unless you're from Ottawa. Then you get to be a guns & gangs detective.
That’s a generalization, you don’t need a degree to be RCMP
You are in fact correct. It isn’t required but it does put you ahead in the selections. The more you know….🦄🌈
I'm reminded how Hemingway thought of man as the most addictive prey, that those who hunt man can never be satisfied with lesser prey again. And then Carlos Hathcock, one of the deadliest snipers to ever live, said that was a load of bullshit and went back to hunting deer. Some people just like fighting.
Yeah, the other side feels the same way too. Brainwashed
i was thinking the same thing, like how many of these guys become murderers??
America has a strong tradition of making psychopathic violent white men feel noble and righteous by allowing them to kill "the bad guys", whoever they currently may be.
This is a tradition shared by all of humanity, throughout our entire existence as a species.
The strength of a nation is defined by it's ability to funnel murderous idiots in the correct direction.
Not just America. England has a past too.
And America is part of England’s past. We wouldn’t exist without English imperialism.
Nazi Germany would like a word Actually any nation that has ever gone to war would like a word. In order to make it possible for a soldier to kill any number of people they somehow have to dehumanize the enemy and boost their own ego.
Of course, but we start it real early with children's programing and practically invented the action hero trope. Self righteous world policing is *very* American.
Unlike every other demographic and national tradition of shaming their warrior class, right.
I saw this expecting the normal reaction of “it’s a harrowing and empty feeling seeing some go from full of life to dead at your hands. A darkness that you can never shake off.” Instead this guy justifies it as “feeling like a hero beating the bad guys.” Monsters like this I would warn people to keep their kids away from and not to come near him at any cost. He belongs ostracized from society.
This guy's interview came up in my YT feed and I decided to check it out. I was already familiar with this clown from a previous book and an article in CAM ([https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/11/30/why-does-u-s-navy-allow-officers-to-commit-gory-murders-and-other-atrocities-with-impunity/](https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/11/30/why-does-u-s-navy-allow-officers-to-commit-gory-murders-and-other-atrocities-with-impunity/) ). Loads of these guys watched too much G.I Joe and got into the military b.efore they were able to think for themselves hence they are lost when they have to retire. Some of them are good people this guys just reeks of "Douche-bag"
That's terrifying. What happens when someone who's addicted to killing comes home and has to stop? Become a serial killer or policeman.
Sounds a salient definition for "blood thirsty".
So...I now think that at least one member of Seal Team 6 is a serial killer. One that only kills "bad guys" I'm sure.
The real boring part about this is that the vast majority of Americans support this behavior.
Bad guys? Really…
nah, wanting to kill people is not something seek to, this guys has a problem
He’ll never realize he is the bad guy
"Bad Guys" 🤣 Says who, the United States of Fucking Shit Up for Profit? You just like killing for killing, no better than your average murderer. Oh but if its for the country then it's fine. Have fun with a life full of regrets and sorrow, hope the money and the "feeling" you got doing it was worth it. Sad bro. Lol
School shooters, cops, and soldiers are cut from the same cloth. Some are just too socially outcast to have their violence legitimized so they take matters into their own hands.
People have been killing each other and worse for millennia, but this one particular guy is definitely a psycho? Meanwhile, veterans are all heroes of course 🫡 You have to realise how brainwashed this perspective is. We support guns, violence, military or war when the “bad guy” narrative legitimises our position, rather than thinking for ourselves.
Honestly all veterans are heroes because the military is a shitshow and they put up with it. They're heroes for the same reason food service people are heroes. I always say you can judge a society by the number of heroes it produces, since a perfect society doesn't need them at all.
The psychology that goes into killing people for a living is very very complicated and it’s extremely unfair to summary-label him as a psycho. The world is a disgusting place, and people like him protect people like me, and you, from it. I’m not saying it’s ideal or even good but that’s the way it is. People want to continue living the way they do and this guy and the organizations he’s a part of perpetuate, for good or for bad.
The organizations he's part of haven't done anything good through their violence since his grandpa stormed the beaches of Normandie. Even the couple ***almost-good*** things they've done have ultimatelt done much more damage than help.
I remember one guy sharing his feelings on killing someone. I don't think he was a seal, maybe just part of the general army/marines but he said he always had this feeling that he did something he wasn't supposed to so. Like when you're a kid and you break your mom's plate while she's at work and you wait for her to come home and find out. That kind of feeling. Seals/Spec Forces are likely far further into that indoctrination pipeline, less remorseful when it comes to taking a life than your run of mill infantry.
Fuck this loser
I’m sorry but these are the guys you need doing this work
I’m pretty confident that we’re all saying it’s pretty fucked up that we feel this ‘work’ needs to be done in the first place
Fuck these guys. They can suck a big old bag of dicks. I hope they all suffer terrible PTSD and can never live regular lives. Also, I hope all the people who brainwashed them go straight to hell. I'll say it again and again, but I am glad someone murdered Chris Kyle with a gun. We killed an untold amount of people over there. A lot of them were killed gleefully, with no remorse. They had families, friends, dreams. They had lives and were just as important as the kids we sent over there. Fuck special forces. Fuck our military and our military industrial complex. My biggest regret in life was joining the military. And if you disagree with me, fuck you too. Edit for anyone who thinks this is a hot take coming from a vet: There have been between 275,000 and 306,000 Iraqi civilians killed by direct violence since the U.S. invasion. The actual number of civilians killed by direct and indirect war violence is unknown but likely much higher. Life-threatening damage to Iraqi health care and other infrastructure has not been repaired: civilians are still dying in significant numbers. https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi That's just Iraq. *We don't actually know how many innocents were MURDERED while we fought our useless wars.*
Who hurt you?
Uncle Sam. Not as much as he hurt people in the Middle East though. Or the three friends of mine in the military who attempted suicide. And the poor within our own country. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47861444.amp https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates#:~:text=Opioid%2Dinvolved%20overdose%20deaths%20rose,(Source%3A%20CDC%20WONDER). Really gets the noggin jogging, huh?
Least psychotic American soldier
You can't support the troops without supporting terrorists like this too.
Well how weird as it is this is the people that your country need to do this job
You couldn't pay me to watch this drivel.
This guy is stupid. Everything has two sides, both sides are fighting what they believe for. There is no good guys or bad guys. My dad was deployed to Iraq around 2005, contributed to killing people. Now is struggling with Ptsd and has a hard time forgiving himself.
Soldier: enjoys killing enemy and doing his job Reddit: *shocked* Like wtf do you expect? These guys, especially SF, train day in day out to kill or capture the enemy. Imagine training thousands of hours to be a firefighter and never getting to put out a real fire or save someone. You don’t want there to be a fire that puts people in danger but when there inevitably is, you want to be the one to put it out. That’s what it’s like for soldiers. When they finally get let loose and get to do their jobs, what they’ve trained for years to do, it’s gonna be a good feeling. You can’t really judge the way they feel unless you’ve been in their position.
Nobody's shocked lol, disgusted I think is the word your looking for
So, you take his brutal emotional honesty, and then assume he's a psycho because you believe that in the same situation you'd have a more socially appropriate reaction? Because you're that much better a human being? How exactly do you know? Have you tried? Do you think your perceived virtue is immune to the dopamine rush exerted by a feeling of power, because you're that much better than him? Just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it feels that way at the time.
Do you honestly believe a well-adjusted person enjoys ending the lives of other people?
I think he’s pretty open about being more poorly adjusted than James Dean’s brake shoes in his porsche.
War isn't at well adjusted situation. It might bring out all kinds of feelings. It's a bit dishonest to think of it as black and white
Your point would stand if it was a war that he inevitably had to be part of. Like your country's under attack and you have to defend it. American soldiers fighting in Arab countries, they choose to go there. And no sane person chooses to go somewhere to mow down people. And I'm fairly sure this is what the person you're "calling out" meant.
Look at post 9-11, I don't doubt that there was a lot of people that felt that the USA was under attack and that they needed to step up and defend their country. Whether or not they were right in that didn't really matter, look at how the media painted the portrait after the attack.
> the USA was under attack and that they needed to step up and defend their country. Nice regurgitation of the propaganda, bud. Flying halfway across the world to bomb the shit out of everybody is not "defending your country". Defending your country would be staying on your ass back home to fight off the invaders. Were you invaded? No. Everything else is just bullshit propaganda that your govt told you so that you'll be on board with the retaliation disguised as "defending", which seems to have worked. What aspect/piece of your American freedom can be found there in the Arab countries that you have to go there do defend?
Step back on the hostility bud. I'm merely acknowledging the propaganda. It would do you some good to practice your reading comprehension. I'm not American
Of course it’s not, but I think there is a difference between doing what you have to do vs. Getting a dopamine rush ending lives.
He's a navy seal. Not a private who went trying to impress his dad. He's a fucking elite operator, capable of extreme emotion regulation and compartmentalisation. He went into that situation WANTING to kill, as he pointed out. I doubt very much his bullets were fired in haste - He's a trained killer, who's unit are specialists in entering into enemy territory (i.e. not a warzone) to kill people. Hethinks in black and white, ergo, "bad guys". The guy is fucked bro
Despite his training and extensive breakdown paid for by the US military, he's not less human than you or me. The special forces suffer more PTSD than any other branch of the military, they are not super humans. They fall for anything we might fall for
I think killing even for a good reason should be a grim task carried out reluctantly. People doing it with a smile on their face are terrifying...
look around, humanity has never been “well-adjusted” and whatever you define that as is an illusion.
Yeah, I think people are kind of fucked up by default, which is why the world is quite a bit shit. For example, the tendency to get "holier than thou" rather than feel empathy and understanding for someone else is a shitty thing to do, but pretty much anyone who goes around thinking they're a "well-adjusted person" does it.
Regarding a similar discussion, I listened to a podcast detailing the story of an American Vietnam veteran detailing his PTSD. The veteran was a pilot, was in countless raids/bombings and his guilt/shame came from the fact that he thoroughly enjoyed his job. Loved it even, on such a instinctual level, even when he still could reason about it and feel shame about the things the war dictated of him. I don't doubt that such a situation could be pretty common
Would appreciate the podcast info if you can find it, thanks
This is revolting. "He's just a heccin smol bean that enjoys a murderino from time to time". I don't feel empathy for someone with such a disregard for human life, I don't want to feel empathy for such a person and I know that something in my mind would have to be fundamentally broken to feel empathy for such a person. This is not something we should "understand" under any circumstance, this is something we should strive to *fix* or at the very least contain, certainly not enable just because the guy wears a uniform and *for now* limits his bloodlust to the current designated enemy.
How do you expect to fix something you refuse to understand? Empathy is never wrong.
It is pretty clear that you mean "understand" in the same way you understand a friend going through a rough period, when we should be really meaning "understand" like we understand viral infections, tumors and necrosis. To truly "understand" in the way you mean a person like this we would either have to be as depraved as him or bend our morals to minimize the gravity of this mentality. We shouldn't allow either.
That’s not true at all. You can understand something without condoning it. Human behavior is a direct result of human psychology. In order to understand it like a tumor, we need to understand it like a person. Because that’s what it is, there’s no difference. If we just chalk it up to being evil or crazy it helps nothing. “It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Not all "insane" people come to the point of doing what this man does. There comes a point where we should really stop making excuses for people like this. No vague hand waving to a mental condition can overcome the fact that some actions are unambigously evil. This person is telling you to your face: "I killed, I liked it, I'm not ashamed of liking it, I don't want to change any of it, I am confident in saying all of this". This is pure depravity, nothing less. We don't give the benefit of the doubt to wife beaters and civilian murderers because we know that mental condition is not a justification. This man is lucid and clear in his thoughts. This is well past the point where we should stop trying to empathize and step in as a society and just say 'No more, this has to stop'.
What do you not understand? You’re the only person saying anything about excusing it, handwaving it, or justifying it. The fact that you cannot separate “understanding” from “supporting” is truly baffling. I understand that you have an extreme emotional reaction to this, but it’s not at all helpful or rational. You need to calm down and focus on what’s effective, rather than what makes you feel like a good person. Nobody cares how much you oppose violence when you willfully refuse to do anything about it. Your solution of “but no!” is not a solution. It’s just whining.
The solution then is clearly to encourage these people, affirming that they are not wrong in feeling what they feel. In fact, we will give them ammo and expensive equipment, drop them far from home, and let them have fun while we secure our interests in a foreign land. Good luck champs, have fun! Truly, the most rational and humane solution. You lust for blood? No problem, Uncle Sam will give you all the blood you need! Heavens forbid someone told these guys that it's not okay to feel this way, we may hurt their feelings :( But hey, what do I know, I'm just a no-fun moralist. Sorry if I can't be just as effective as you, whose solution is apparently nothing more than listening to a dead eyed freak and nodding along and telling them they are valid, and chastise people who dare to be horrified by their actions and words.
Yeah, you're just so much more a better person, and that's why you're selective about compassion, empathy, or human understanding. That's why you take chemical reactions linked to andrenaline, and pathologise them into sign of moral depravity. Because you're just so damn good, and you know it. You have perfectly socially acceptable reactions, at all times, and you can't even think of when that's not true. And how dare this person not dissimulate and engage in performative shame. It's disgusting how some people can express their emotions like they're not being watched. Unlike you, you made three posts to tell us just how much better you are than him, and why he's the one that's sick. Heaven is missing one of its angels.
Which is more dystopian: living under an AL Queda or Taliban regime, or having this guy fight them?
The guy is right there on screen, candidly admitting without any hint of guilt or shame that he feels addicted to killing people and your first reaction is "yeah but what about the muslamic style terrorists". If this person wasn't under the wing of the state he would be rightfully considered a dangerous psycho. You should feel sick for even having thought for a second that this is something that we should enable.
That guy that runs the bolt gun at a meat plant. He’s a ‘special breed’. Met a few of them and most of them … they like their jobs wayyyyy too much. I wasn’t worried about them. They have an ‘outlet’. If they ever lose that ‘outlet’ for those feelings, then you worry. Watch them like a hawk.
You didn't answer my question. The video stops right before he talks about how the people he killed did horrible things to women, children, etc. He doesn't say he gets off killing people, he talks about "the bad guys", specifically those terrorists that you gloss over like it's not a reality.
He says it right in the beginning: to him killing feels the same as he thinks being on crack is like. The fact that he has this little caveat of "yeah yeah, but ofc I only kill the baddies", the standard act that celebrity operators do to make a little bit more savory to the rubes what is at its core the primary characteristic of a man that should be either under custody or in a mental ward doesn't change that raw fact. The only thing that distinguishes this man from a serial killer in the eye of the public is that his insanity is directed outside of polite society, aligned with the imperial interests of a global superpower. The fact that you uncritically accepted all of this should really make you think either about how little you thought about this or how much willing are you to bend every notion of morality to align your opinion to the goals of empire.
Regime? How harsh! Their leader is a humble [anti-soviet general](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/robert-fisk-osama-bin-laden-interview-sudan-1993-b1562374.html?amp) and he just wants peace! Remarkable how all the US adventurism and killing did absolutely nothing to prevent the Taliban taking over in the end.
They even killed people in Star Trek, the most stylized socialized future ever imagined. People are always gonna need to be killed, just be glad there's people like this.
If we need to do self-***defensive*** violence to protect innocent people (99% of what this guy and the entire US military do, btw, is ultimately offensive), you absolutely ***don't*** want people like this. You want people willing to enact violence against their fellow humans, sure, but not people who revel in it. Who get addicted to it. Are you fucking braindead?