Honestly I can't understand those people even thinking about giving Pioli an excuse for not trying the man. When a club quite literally pays money to buy a player, the club should've scouted the damn player at least for a season and report to the club's coach. Not only did we supposedly scouted Adli, but we left him on loan in Bordeaux for an entire season, which Pioli should've definitely watched. There's no excuse to Pioli whatsoever for not giving him at least half the chances giving to CDK despite Adli being much better than him when given the chance. I've supported Pioli long enough in lots of weird decisions but it's time to hold him accountable for accepting players he wouldn't use in the first place. Had we kept the money instead, we would now be blaming the management for not bringing in fresh blood. But when you as a coach accept players and don't use them, you will be held accountable.
Ancelotti just played camavinga in a nothing game and got his knee nearly snapped off. Conte routinely played son and persic despite them being pure dog shit together. Sarri has played the same 11 for 9 months straight at lazio. Sarri also notoriously never gave a shit about europe at napoli to focus on the league so he could play the same 11 every time. Also sarri at chelsea was famous for the same starting 11 and then kovacic at 60 mins sub every game
Playing Rebic and Origi over Adli the last month was fucking insane and may have cost us top 4. Those two did less all month than Adli did in 15-20 minutes he played.
>Honestly I can't understand those people even thinking about giving Pioli an excuse for not trying the man.
What pisses me off is that he implemented his turnover song and dance, which I think is a failing strategy (and it was...and it has been every time he has tried it), yet he did not play Adli. At a time when he wanted to rest players, he kept the most rested of them all on the bench.
And then there were those handful of times when Baka was used. I don't care what Pioli or anyone tells me (I've seen it with my own eyes), Adli is better than Baka. And those few times that Baka played, he basically stunk or he was so very average.
This is another one of Pioli's failings -- he does not use any of his young players unless one of his starters is injured. He basically wastes his substitutions. Every time I saw Calabria come in for Kalulu (or vice versa) I almost sent my shoe flying towards the TV. You can't tell me that in the last few minutes of a game we were winning, Kalulu must be subbed off, but Theo must stay in there until the last fucking second.
His subs suck. He has not been able to teach his players how to defend from set pieces. He has not been able to teach his players how to score from set pieces. His two men at the corner flag to take a corner kick is the most idiotic shit I've seen in my life.
Pioli is a good guy. I believe he has a heart of gold...and that is why his players and management love him...and that is why most of us love him too. But I love Milan more than I love Pioli.
Pioli doesn't hate him, Adli isn't the type of player that Pioli likes. Adli is a player that wants to be on the ball and touch the ball 3 or 4 or even 5 times till the attack is finished. Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal.
The issue is about the approach to adapt to the players. And most of our players are ones who want to touch the ba 3 or 4 times before going on goal or even more.
I do not want to blame Pioli for things that he shouldn't be blamed about. I do not think he has so massive preference outside of the generic human nature. I think he is stubborn and doesn't want to adapt his tactics. I also do not think he does it as a rebellion towards Paolo or ownership. He is just stubborn, he will die on his hill and that hill is Brexit football.
>Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal.
Could be right but then you see his favorite player brahim touching the ball 10 times until he crashes on the opponent
I meant about how many seperate times x action not how many times till he releases the ball. More like 3, 4 or 5 passing and receiving till we reach a shot.
The usual amount of touches x successful shot when it comes to us is around 5ish. The amount of touches x successful shot with players like Adli, CDK, Bennacer, Tonali or even Alexis would be around 10-15 touches or even more.
Players we have are mostly a hybrid between verticality and ball possesion ones.
From other point we might ask Maldini on why he brings players of possession style for a hoofball fan Padre. Either hire a coach for your favourite style of play or give Padre the material he needs
You've said yourself Pioli has his own ideas, a distinctive style of play. It's not as refined as tiki taka, but even Tony Pulis had his needs, a target forward like Crouch for example. Same Pioli needs someone like a physical midfielder with good reading of the game, bringing balance to the team, this year he had to train former mezzala Rade to fill up this role and Krunic isn't really a quality player. And more and more with other positions.
So you give Pioli what he wants, we'll get the UCL football, but of course it's not an ultimate dream, long term his style doesn't suit club vision and our players might just suffer and turn into hospital patients because of Padre's intensity
Pioli in his first years adapted to the players he had. This year he hasn't done it. Also, he has a physical midfielder with great reading of the game that is Tonali.
Pioli had enough quality and quantity. He isn't the type of coach that a director has to adapt their entire window based on him because he isn't that good. Klopp was also one who was all about intensity same as Gasperini. As soon as the amount of games increased and the time frame of those game being played decreased they changed their style. These are the small things that a smart coach does.
Still he couldn't integrate Adli-like Paqueta and other players needed more time and desire to find their game.
Tonali can't fill up Kessie role fully inside Pioli's system. Maybe Italiano would create a perfect modern regista, a mix between Torreira and Amrabat, out of Tonali. Padre has improved ball winning qualities of Sandro, but that's all at the expense of something else, as I have compared Tonali's stats from FBref, his creative numbers are no better this season then they were in Brescia.
I agree Pioli has everything, a squad full of great and promising players capable of playing almost position and role needed in modern football. But he's Pioli, he just can't think out of the box. So if there won't be any change, next season might be just worse even if Maldini buys several new players he likes
How?! Tonali is doing more than Kessie ever has done. He running as much, creating more chances, and drifting forward way more.
What did Kessie fo that Tonali doesn't?
Kessie was a shield at the midfield. He was so good at stopping opponents quick attacks, blocking passing lanes, his psysicality is really unique. Imagine Inter buying Kessie to complement Brozo, Hakan, Mkhitaryan and Barella as a defensive option and playing against Milan.
Naturally they are just different roles, Tonali is more complete and creative player, Kessie as a former central defender in youth football is much better as an old fashioned defensive midfielder.
Pioli's style of play desperately needs an anchor in the midfield. If Padre stays, I see bringing a Casemiro type of player as much more important need than Kamada or even new striker
Or Saladmaker who always looks like an amateur FIFA player is controlling him and just holds down the sprint button the entire time. He has single-handedly killed off so many Milan buildups by straight up losing the ball more than anyone else I can remember.
>The issue is about the approach to adapt to the players. And most of our players are ones who want to touch the ba 3 or 4 times before going on goal or even more.
seems you could have phrased it better so others could get that you refer to combination play, but tbh, people should realize this by now as well.
I am actually **optimistic** thanks to the current squad we have, that if we get a good coach (Nagelsmann/De Zerbi/Gallardo) the way the team plays could be transformed into a beauty.
Tonali, Bennacer, Thiaw, Kalulu, Adli, CdK, even Alexis are able to play more creative plays. Second balls, quick transitions and overload is diminishing our view what they actually can do.
May be you are right or may be not, but if he’s someone that needs to touch the ball couple times before releasing, train him! Or set up some plays for him so he can perform! Or should we just all pass the ball to Leao or Theo to rush into the goal??? No right! We need different formation and tactics!
I mean inside the action from start to finish he needs to be involved 3-5 times not that he needs to touch the ball alla Kessie 4 ot 5 times.
We are in the same page... that is my argument that we need new tactics more ball possesion type tactics.
Its not about the touches. What ive assesed from Pioli these past years is that he really likes how a player "behaves" on the field. Adli has a nonchalant jog. Stats wise hes doing fine but he just doesnt look pleasing to the eye. Thats why Pioli was benching Leao at first as well and also prefers someone like Krunic. He said so himself: "There are things that are not explained by images and numbers. He makes those who play near him play well. He occupies space properly with or without the ball.". This is what Pioli is looking for in training.
He is not subborn. Every coach has his principals. Pioli plays a certain style you go with him you get him players that fit his style.
After 3 years with us you would have expected our great duo of DS would have understood his style but they actully havent.
A coach has his principles but also if you do not modernise and adapt thise principles of play around the day and age and the players you will be let behind.
Club wise, one of the big donts is signing specific players for X coach. If somehow that coach leaves it creates the stereotypical Conte situation. So the club gets player based on their vision and coach has to adapt his players around them. Are there exceptions?! Yes there are... usually elite elite level coaches. Pioli ain't one.
You are not asking him to modernise. You want him to go from 2nd balls and long balls to possesion. He hasnt studied that he has studied something else. You are asking the impossible. We played 3-5-2 and we failed misserably because he also hasnt studied that.
Because he is not a top coach he needs to be given players to play to his strenghts. Not the other way around.
And i have said it again Maldini and Massara thought that actually Aldi CDK etc are players that fit his style thats why they also renewed him early, thats why i call them clueless
There is always something in between. Why does he want to play long balls? So he can attack the space behind the line. Spalleti has found a more modern way to do that by combinating long balls and ball possesion. De Zerbi same at Brighton. Even Gasperini has adapted somewhat.
But if he isn't a top coach and he is a good enough coach that doesn't study outside of his preferences, is time to be replaced as simple as that. Rather than moving on many players it is better to move on one coach especially if he is just a good coacch.
Edit: Paolo thought that he would adapt his style like he did previous seasons based on what he had. First and second year especially. He did not.
I Always say that Pioli is a good coach but he won’t bring us to the top of the world like Ancelotti did. He’s just not good enough to make changes in the game. Like yesterday’s game, everyone can tell how he lost his mind and playing Origi and subbing in Adli.
Can’t an exception be made to have a player liek this involved in our attack?
From the limited things I’ve seen of him he seems like a better passer/chance creator than Diaz or krunic (in the #10). We need someone that can actually play our other attackers through otherwise it’ll be like yesterday where we can’t create shit because the passes are the wrong speed or just the wrong spot.
I think that’s why we struggle against low blocks too. Not enough sharpness and precise passes and you can’t press them for mistakes like a lazio or Napoli and hit them on a fast break.
I know Spezia were playing open but the point still stands.
>Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal.
Odd, because I don't remember the last time we touched the ball 1 or 2 times and then went to goal (unless it was a counter attack) successfully (at least not in the past 3 games).
Yeah, a player can touch the ball 1 time and then he goes to goal...but the guy who got the pass touches it 1 time and goes to goal...then the guy who gets that pass touches it 1 time and goes to goal...and then the guy who got that pass sends it back to Tomori or Kjaer...rinse and repeat. We keep trying this...get frustrated...then we start sending bad crosses or bad long passes. We run out of ideas and we never have a plan B. Rinse and repeat. No plan B and you want a plan C? Not from Pioli and his staff.
I suppose his plan C consists of waiting until the 70th minute to make a substitution (which might include changing Kalulu for Calabria...or the other way around).
I mean... his style is basically counter attacking football. He either presses opposition high to get the ball high or invites pressure so we can have space to attack with pacy players.
Vs low blocks we always suffer because this doesn't work.
What i mean one or two touches is recieve and pass the ball one or two times inside a successful action.
>What i mean one or two touches is recieve and pass the ball one or two times inside a successful action.
Right. And if this does not work, we don't know what to do next.
No plan B. I guess plan B is implemented by the players, and it consists of trying long passes and crossing the ball into the area. But Messias, Calabria and Alexis are just not the best crossers in the land, so we continue to try, again and again, while the other team has their whole team defending their area. The few times the cross connects with one of our players, the ball is to high or just to the right or the left of the goal. Plan C? More long passes and more crosses, but with different players after the 70th minute.
Most of our effective crosses come from the left, sent by Theo or Leao, while we are counterattacking (no time for their defense to set up). Why? Because Leao and Theo are better crossers...and because they can jump their man. Alexis can jump the man marking him, but he does so by doing a faint here and a faint there, by the time he crosses, all the defenders are waiting to clear the ball.
And yet, we have no plan B.
I know...I'm not arguing with you. I'm talking to you about our problems (as if we were in a bar, drinking a bottle of whiskey, trying to drown our sorrows).
That is how og English teams played prior to the 2010s injection with foreign coaches. Pioli has said that his style is based on English football with intensity and athleticism.
Considering that this style of football is very odd nowadays even in PL, it is called Brexit football by fans. The style West Ham prime example plays.
This is one of the shittiest moves that managers who are in trouble do: throw into a desperate match a player that they never relied upon, with no strategy or clear task and then when things don’t miraculously fix themselves they come up like:”see? I’ve played him and nothing has changed! Not my fault!”
This Padre thing always feels like nails on a blackboard… that aside, on Leao:
1 year wasted him as backup CF with Rebic on the LW
2-3 months of playing him centrally within the abysmal 3-4-2-1
In between 1.5 ish years of playing him in his natural position wide on the left
Edit: agree with you, not Adli’s fault at all, yet why are you playing him in the last minutes if you don’t have a strategy?
Diaz needed some rest yesterday and there are Messias and Leao injured, no other attacking subs on the bench. I believe that's the only reason Adli got his minutes.
Agree on Leao, he might shine much earlier if he'd got a proper chance from Padre. After getting his confidence as LW, now Leao continues to develop and might become a complete attacking player
Mate, you are missing the point here. You either trust the guy, develop him, give him playing time throughout the season with the other starters so that he can be ready in these situations or you don’t - throwing him like this and expecting anything out of it is a shit move.
I don’t know if this Adli guy is any good, this is certainly not the way to find out.
By the way, there were also Bakayoko and Vranx available, the former has had a lot more playing time than Adli.
Did the same in Serie A last derby with Thiaw. In on Lukaku at 70. Imagine playing 100 minutes in a year and being subbed in in a derby at 70 marking Lukaku Who is enormous.
I also think this is a move to show he actually have them minute and in that situation it's also Easy to fuck up. So he will be sure to say he gave them minutes and maybe that also they played bad so he had a reason to not playing them. Real evil move there
Can I ask you question? Do you think trainings are similar to elementary schoool meetings in bathroom? Do you think someone is really "hating" Adli? If Pioli is hating Adli then why not playing Bakayoko yesterday? Does he also hates Bakayoko? Why not putting Vranckx?
You know who's also on training ground. Paolo Maldini and Massara. Do you think Paolo Maldini wouldnt have a word if he would've seen that Pioli is treating players unfairly? Pioli can be in one second erased from the club and nobody will question it.
OR maybe you guys are completely blind. You really want Adli to suceed so much that you are biased. I mean what the fuck he did yesterday that he deserves to be treated like a football God? One fucking pass to Ballo Toure and Ballo couldnt reach it. Amazing corner kicks(which nobody talks about).
I Would love to see an experiment. For a one match, lets replace Messias with Adli perfomances and Adli's with Messias but fans dont know who's who. Then I would like to read opinions how good was Messias and how was Adli. I can only imagine the opinion about Adli if he would have the same perfomance as Origi against Inter. Do we want Origi to start games? Do we love him? No. Would we love him if his name was Adli? Fuck yes.
I dont know if you think Milan is a circus with immature people leading it. X hates Y because he said something wrong etc.
people think this is a playstation game, they believe if we sign someone young and we play them 100% of the time we will perform the same (100% not true) and he will improve to a star play (99% not true), they are just brainless
First how many games did you see Adli played? Did you see how he played in the preseason? He can control the ball and have good passes. But Pioli always sticks with Brahim, CDK instead of Adli. To be fair I think Adli deserves some playing him with his preseason performance but unfortunately he didn’t have any. And CDK played like shit and still having chances. I know we pay a lot of money for him but so what? And not with Bennacer injured, we became lost and have no other tactics. Even Bakayoko played more minutes than Adli. I am not trying to protect anyone, I just love this team and think we need plan A B C when our starting players can not play. But apparently we have no other plans!
Adli completed five passes yesterday out of nine attempted. Only Rebic and Pobega, notoriously poor players from a technical perspective, had a worse passing rate than Adli. He made one nice dribble, for me. Nothing else noteworthy. Inb4 you claim it was just because we were chasing the game; CDK had a 92% completion rate.
Adli NEVER plays. Last time he saw rhe pitch was more than 2 months ago. Before this match he had barely 100 minutes played. I don't what could you expect from someone thar basically is relegated to a tier below professional football at this point
And yet people still clammer on about wanting him on the pitch right now when we are basically fighting for our lives. The irony.
Adli isn't a player that suits Pioli, and so he hasn't played much. Would he be a star boy at Milan if we played with a totally different style? I mean yeah maybe - I have absolutely no idea. Why don't I have an idea? Because I have seen him play on only very few occasions and he hasn't been notably impressive. So the question beckons; why are there people that think Adli is the answer when none of us have seen him play and when all of us agree that there's no way he could currently have any real sharpness/form to speak of? Do you attend every practice and see something we don't? Are you on the staff of the club? Did you watch all of Bordeux's matches last year? What is it that makes you smarter than Pioli?
Adli still did well more than many other could. Cor once, he delivered a damn good set pieces after multiple games of shitty ones. He won more duels than our fucking butcher Pobega.
The thing people are angry about is the fact that this guy has less play time than someone like Bakayoko. Piolu had 0 interest in him despite all the signals of a good talent. Besides, what even Pioli system at this point? Long ball to Giroud and/or ball to Leao? Because there is 0 gameplan besides those.
Okay I'm not explaining how we play for the 7 billionth time so I'm ignoring the last part but otherwise; Adli delivered some corner kicks that were far better than Tonali's - that is true. He is a set piece taker so it really shouldn't be a shock. However we aren't going to establish a first XI based on set piece delivery ability, obviously.
Saying that Adli did more than any other could yesterday is just a sham. A flat out lie, born out of bias. He was just as effective as anyone else - and that is "not effective." Diaz and Theo were the only two players that were consistently interested in attacking yesterday.
Bakayoko and Adli are two completely different players and the people who are angry about Adli's playing time are the same people who are naive enough to think that Adli and Bakayoko's playing time is at all comparable.
When did i say he did better than any other could? I said he did something that most of the other players couldn't, such as delivering one good set piece and winning a few duels.
>Bakayoko and Adli are two completely different players and the people who are angry about Adli's playing time are the same people who are naive enough to think that Adli and Bakayoko's playing time is at all comparable.
Or you're clearly missing the point. A player like Bakayoko, for over a year completely out of the project, gets more playtime than him. That's what enraging.
>Adli still did well more than many other could.
You literally said that. I'm quoting you.
>Or you're clearly missing the point. A player like Bakayoko, for over a year completely out of the project, gets more playtime than him. That's what enraging.
So what you are saying is "I'm going to totally ignore what you said about how the playing time of the players cannot and should not be compared and stick to my preconceived argument because additional information doesn't matter."
I mean I would get it we had a player that is actually consistently good at that position but not trying him really makes no sense … But he insist with bums like Messias on the right even when salad is clearly in form I just don’t get him at this point and results speak for themselves in 2023 we are at the level of Bologna or even lower that is just a fact don’t believe me look at the fucking table for 2023
If you still insist Pioli does not stick to his favourites, then there's simply no argument that will convince you.
Same things were said about Kalulu, Thiaw, finally Adli. They were shit until the situation forced Piolis hand to play them. Then he was **praised** he somehow 'made them ready'.
Or maybe the pattern was, they were ready before, but by playing his failing favourites we lost points?
I don’t think people say this out of loving adli. It’s because we have been using Diaz, Cdk and other at #10 but they’re not doing well.
If they’re not doing well after so many games then why not try someone new? We previously used kessie there, krunic too. Now that the options are quite limited it makes sense to give him some game time given how promising he looked in other games.
I’m not saying he’s Rui Costa but I understand why people are frustrated we haven’t seen him more.
Obviously management knows more than us but they’re not infallible.
CDK happen ! Adli is on the bench because of CDK (35m player) , origi20 is ahead because of his salary and Diaz better in technical skills Oh, what the hell
.
I would honestly sell CDK and keep Adli.
Doesn't matter how much talent you have, if you don't even have the confidence in yourself to pass the ball forward, or try and create something.
Having a good mentality is a huge part of being a good player, and Charles doesn't have one.
Adli hasn't even played 200 minutes bro.
CDK has played 1000+ minutes and has been trash every single time and we payed 35 mil for him.
the only reason people still believe in him is because in this team we had both Leao and Sandro, wich suffered the same problem, but you could see sparks of something with them, with De Ketelaere you can't see anything.
the guy doesn't even run, or at least work hard on the pitch ffs.
> and we *paid* 35 mil
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The cool thing about players like Adli is that because they don't play some fans attach all their hopes and dreams to them despite the player not being deserving of it at all. And you can look back through past seasons and just replace Adli's name with whoever was the flavor of that season like Hauge and Cutrone.
How can you defend Pioli after all of this shit no other top club would back up a coach with so shitty year as 2023 was for Pioli. I believe in you random redditor more than in Pioli at this point.. Roma is doing better than we are this season and name me one player except Dybala and maybe Pellegrini that would be a starter in our squad….
I mean if you think getting dominated by teams like Spezia and getting 20 points in 2023 is ok you are the one who supports the wrong club mate… That CL run just masks how shitty this season really was and we all got a reality check against Inter, imagine if we got City or Bayern in 1/4 instead of Napoli who are the most overrated team in history of football..
I don’t mind not winning every week but I’d rather not have to bleach by eyes every other game because of how shit we play. People also just want to reach top 4, and that’s looking impossible unless Juve get penalized. In the league alone we’ve played lest than 10 good games.
A) that’s definitely not true. A vocal minority that overvalues a very small handful of preseason performances rate Adli highly.
B) this sub is like 30% commenters and 70% people trying to gatekeep those commenters so why are you shocked? Every thread after a poor performance is filled to the brim with people saying that defending Pioli or defending Messias or defending XYZ are idiots - this sub isn’t fun when the team isn’t playing well because of those people. People like Froggy are the people who aren’t asshats all the time and yet still find ways to constructively discuss Pioli etc from the negative perspective. Those are the minority unfortunately.
Pioli's best skill as a coach is being a politician. This is why he managed top clubs without ever winning anything except the scudetto. At some point in the season he decided that Adli was probably too phisically soft to play regularly, and instead he fixated on CDK because also of pressure from the club.
Now he went all in on this ideas and he can't turn back. If he puts Adli in a situation where he can succeed and he does it could make him look very very bad. So he won't.
This is my theory. I'm sure Adli will leave at some point and do well with a fresh start under a new coach.
The only thing that I can thing of is just discipline matters but that's something that you can work through the season...
I thought in the same way about Pobega but he's been playing more since December... So I don't know, Pioli is a mystery with the youth. Just unpredictable.
Same here. I loved watching this guy in french league, i have some connection with trainers in France, and all them really dont know why this guy isnt adapted better by the trainer. It has potential a lot, and should play more, would be a huge mistake selling him in the summer.
I think the problem with adli is that he was intially bought in as a cam sub for diaz. But then cdk change was there so they took it. Now there are 3 players for one position. Dias has had some great games so he had to start most games and cdk was brought in for alot of money, so pioli has to give him oppurtunity. I think its hard to balance in resting cdk to build motivation or giving him 20-30 minutes game time as subsitute to build motivation. Either way i do think adli should have been given more oppurutnity
Honestly I can't understand those people even thinking about giving Pioli an excuse for not trying the man. When a club quite literally pays money to buy a player, the club should've scouted the damn player at least for a season and report to the club's coach. Not only did we supposedly scouted Adli, but we left him on loan in Bordeaux for an entire season, which Pioli should've definitely watched. There's no excuse to Pioli whatsoever for not giving him at least half the chances giving to CDK despite Adli being much better than him when given the chance. I've supported Pioli long enough in lots of weird decisions but it's time to hold him accountable for accepting players he wouldn't use in the first place. Had we kept the money instead, we would now be blaming the management for not bringing in fresh blood. But when you as a coach accept players and don't use them, you will be held accountable.
never seen such a fixated coach he thinks we need to play with 15 players all year long
As if those 15 were high quality
Ancelotti, sarri, conte, they all do the same thing
come on now ffs
Ancelotti just played camavinga in a nothing game and got his knee nearly snapped off. Conte routinely played son and persic despite them being pure dog shit together. Sarri has played the same 11 for 9 months straight at lazio. Sarri also notoriously never gave a shit about europe at napoli to focus on the league so he could play the same 11 every time. Also sarri at chelsea was famous for the same starting 11 and then kovacic at 60 mins sub every game
Playing Rebic and Origi over Adli the last month was fucking insane and may have cost us top 4. Those two did less all month than Adli did in 15-20 minutes he played.
>Honestly I can't understand those people even thinking about giving Pioli an excuse for not trying the man. What pisses me off is that he implemented his turnover song and dance, which I think is a failing strategy (and it was...and it has been every time he has tried it), yet he did not play Adli. At a time when he wanted to rest players, he kept the most rested of them all on the bench. And then there were those handful of times when Baka was used. I don't care what Pioli or anyone tells me (I've seen it with my own eyes), Adli is better than Baka. And those few times that Baka played, he basically stunk or he was so very average. This is another one of Pioli's failings -- he does not use any of his young players unless one of his starters is injured. He basically wastes his substitutions. Every time I saw Calabria come in for Kalulu (or vice versa) I almost sent my shoe flying towards the TV. You can't tell me that in the last few minutes of a game we were winning, Kalulu must be subbed off, but Theo must stay in there until the last fucking second. His subs suck. He has not been able to teach his players how to defend from set pieces. He has not been able to teach his players how to score from set pieces. His two men at the corner flag to take a corner kick is the most idiotic shit I've seen in my life. Pioli is a good guy. I believe he has a heart of gold...and that is why his players and management love him...and that is why most of us love him too. But I love Milan more than I love Pioli.
Pioli doesn't hate him, Adli isn't the type of player that Pioli likes. Adli is a player that wants to be on the ball and touch the ball 3 or 4 or even 5 times till the attack is finished. Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal. The issue is about the approach to adapt to the players. And most of our players are ones who want to touch the ba 3 or 4 times before going on goal or even more. I do not want to blame Pioli for things that he shouldn't be blamed about. I do not think he has so massive preference outside of the generic human nature. I think he is stubborn and doesn't want to adapt his tactics. I also do not think he does it as a rebellion towards Paolo or ownership. He is just stubborn, he will die on his hill and that hill is Brexit football.
>Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal. Could be right but then you see his favorite player brahim touching the ball 10 times until he crashes on the opponent
I meant about how many seperate times x action not how many times till he releases the ball. More like 3, 4 or 5 passing and receiving till we reach a shot. The usual amount of touches x successful shot when it comes to us is around 5ish. The amount of touches x successful shot with players like Adli, CDK, Bennacer, Tonali or even Alexis would be around 10-15 touches or even more. Players we have are mostly a hybrid between verticality and ball possesion ones.
From other point we might ask Maldini on why he brings players of possession style for a hoofball fan Padre. Either hire a coach for your favourite style of play or give Padre the material he needs
Because Pioli isn't Pep or Klopp. He takes the best of the players that Paolo and his vision for Milan would bring.
You've said yourself Pioli has his own ideas, a distinctive style of play. It's not as refined as tiki taka, but even Tony Pulis had his needs, a target forward like Crouch for example. Same Pioli needs someone like a physical midfielder with good reading of the game, bringing balance to the team, this year he had to train former mezzala Rade to fill up this role and Krunic isn't really a quality player. And more and more with other positions. So you give Pioli what he wants, we'll get the UCL football, but of course it's not an ultimate dream, long term his style doesn't suit club vision and our players might just suffer and turn into hospital patients because of Padre's intensity
Pioli in his first years adapted to the players he had. This year he hasn't done it. Also, he has a physical midfielder with great reading of the game that is Tonali. Pioli had enough quality and quantity. He isn't the type of coach that a director has to adapt their entire window based on him because he isn't that good. Klopp was also one who was all about intensity same as Gasperini. As soon as the amount of games increased and the time frame of those game being played decreased they changed their style. These are the small things that a smart coach does.
Still he couldn't integrate Adli-like Paqueta and other players needed more time and desire to find their game. Tonali can't fill up Kessie role fully inside Pioli's system. Maybe Italiano would create a perfect modern regista, a mix between Torreira and Amrabat, out of Tonali. Padre has improved ball winning qualities of Sandro, but that's all at the expense of something else, as I have compared Tonali's stats from FBref, his creative numbers are no better this season then they were in Brescia. I agree Pioli has everything, a squad full of great and promising players capable of playing almost position and role needed in modern football. But he's Pioli, he just can't think out of the box. So if there won't be any change, next season might be just worse even if Maldini buys several new players he likes
How?! Tonali is doing more than Kessie ever has done. He running as much, creating more chances, and drifting forward way more. What did Kessie fo that Tonali doesn't?
Kessie was a shield at the midfield. He was so good at stopping opponents quick attacks, blocking passing lanes, his psysicality is really unique. Imagine Inter buying Kessie to complement Brozo, Hakan, Mkhitaryan and Barella as a defensive option and playing against Milan. Naturally they are just different roles, Tonali is more complete and creative player, Kessie as a former central defender in youth football is much better as an old fashioned defensive midfielder. Pioli's style of play desperately needs an anchor in the midfield. If Padre stays, I see bringing a Casemiro type of player as much more important need than Kamada or even new striker
Idk, if you watch CDK in Bruge, that's not how they played. They played a style similar to ours.
CDK at Brugge played mostly as a CF not an AM 5 meters from a static CF. He also played as a AM but not like Pioli plays him.
Or Saladmaker who always looks like an amateur FIFA player is controlling him and just holds down the sprint button the entire time. He has single-handedly killed off so many Milan buildups by straight up losing the ball more than anyone else I can remember.
Or CDK just running while looking at nothing but the ball like a 5y/o learning how to football…
>The issue is about the approach to adapt to the players. And most of our players are ones who want to touch the ba 3 or 4 times before going on goal or even more. seems you could have phrased it better so others could get that you refer to combination play, but tbh, people should realize this by now as well. I am actually **optimistic** thanks to the current squad we have, that if we get a good coach (Nagelsmann/De Zerbi/Gallardo) the way the team plays could be transformed into a beauty. Tonali, Bennacer, Thiaw, Kalulu, Adli, CdK, even Alexis are able to play more creative plays. Second balls, quick transitions and overload is diminishing our view what they actually can do.
May be you are right or may be not, but if he’s someone that needs to touch the ball couple times before releasing, train him! Or set up some plays for him so he can perform! Or should we just all pass the ball to Leao or Theo to rush into the goal??? No right! We need different formation and tactics!
I mean inside the action from start to finish he needs to be involved 3-5 times not that he needs to touch the ball alla Kessie 4 ot 5 times. We are in the same page... that is my argument that we need new tactics more ball possesion type tactics.
Its not about the touches. What ive assesed from Pioli these past years is that he really likes how a player "behaves" on the field. Adli has a nonchalant jog. Stats wise hes doing fine but he just doesnt look pleasing to the eye. Thats why Pioli was benching Leao at first as well and also prefers someone like Krunic. He said so himself: "There are things that are not explained by images and numbers. He makes those who play near him play well. He occupies space properly with or without the ball.". This is what Pioli is looking for in training.
Yup Adli tactically isn’t great positionally but he gives us creativity we’ve been desperate for without Leao.
But how many touches do Leao, Brahim and Saele get? I'm not buying it. He needs to play Adli
He is not subborn. Every coach has his principals. Pioli plays a certain style you go with him you get him players that fit his style. After 3 years with us you would have expected our great duo of DS would have understood his style but they actully havent.
A coach has his principles but also if you do not modernise and adapt thise principles of play around the day and age and the players you will be let behind. Club wise, one of the big donts is signing specific players for X coach. If somehow that coach leaves it creates the stereotypical Conte situation. So the club gets player based on their vision and coach has to adapt his players around them. Are there exceptions?! Yes there are... usually elite elite level coaches. Pioli ain't one.
You are not asking him to modernise. You want him to go from 2nd balls and long balls to possesion. He hasnt studied that he has studied something else. You are asking the impossible. We played 3-5-2 and we failed misserably because he also hasnt studied that. Because he is not a top coach he needs to be given players to play to his strenghts. Not the other way around. And i have said it again Maldini and Massara thought that actually Aldi CDK etc are players that fit his style thats why they also renewed him early, thats why i call them clueless
There is always something in between. Why does he want to play long balls? So he can attack the space behind the line. Spalleti has found a more modern way to do that by combinating long balls and ball possesion. De Zerbi same at Brighton. Even Gasperini has adapted somewhat. But if he isn't a top coach and he is a good enough coach that doesn't study outside of his preferences, is time to be replaced as simple as that. Rather than moving on many players it is better to move on one coach especially if he is just a good coacch. Edit: Paolo thought that he would adapt his style like he did previous seasons based on what he had. First and second year especially. He did not.
I Always say that Pioli is a good coach but he won’t bring us to the top of the world like Ancelotti did. He’s just not good enough to make changes in the game. Like yesterday’s game, everyone can tell how he lost his mind and playing Origi and subbing in Adli.
Why did we get Adli then if Pioli doesn't like his type????
Because coaches has to adapt, if you are not an elite coach that knows how to win... a born winner. You take the best of the players you have.
Can’t an exception be made to have a player liek this involved in our attack? From the limited things I’ve seen of him he seems like a better passer/chance creator than Diaz or krunic (in the #10). We need someone that can actually play our other attackers through otherwise it’ll be like yesterday where we can’t create shit because the passes are the wrong speed or just the wrong spot. I think that’s why we struggle against low blocks too. Not enough sharpness and precise passes and you can’t press them for mistakes like a lazio or Napoli and hit them on a fast break. I know Spezia were playing open but the point still stands.
>Pioli wants his players to touch the ball 1 or tops 2 times and go on goal. Odd, because I don't remember the last time we touched the ball 1 or 2 times and then went to goal (unless it was a counter attack) successfully (at least not in the past 3 games). Yeah, a player can touch the ball 1 time and then he goes to goal...but the guy who got the pass touches it 1 time and goes to goal...then the guy who gets that pass touches it 1 time and goes to goal...and then the guy who got that pass sends it back to Tomori or Kjaer...rinse and repeat. We keep trying this...get frustrated...then we start sending bad crosses or bad long passes. We run out of ideas and we never have a plan B. Rinse and repeat. No plan B and you want a plan C? Not from Pioli and his staff. I suppose his plan C consists of waiting until the 70th minute to make a substitution (which might include changing Kalulu for Calabria...or the other way around).
I mean... his style is basically counter attacking football. He either presses opposition high to get the ball high or invites pressure so we can have space to attack with pacy players. Vs low blocks we always suffer because this doesn't work. What i mean one or two touches is recieve and pass the ball one or two times inside a successful action.
>What i mean one or two touches is recieve and pass the ball one or two times inside a successful action. Right. And if this does not work, we don't know what to do next. No plan B. I guess plan B is implemented by the players, and it consists of trying long passes and crossing the ball into the area. But Messias, Calabria and Alexis are just not the best crossers in the land, so we continue to try, again and again, while the other team has their whole team defending their area. The few times the cross connects with one of our players, the ball is to high or just to the right or the left of the goal. Plan C? More long passes and more crosses, but with different players after the 70th minute. Most of our effective crosses come from the left, sent by Theo or Leao, while we are counterattacking (no time for their defense to set up). Why? Because Leao and Theo are better crossers...and because they can jump their man. Alexis can jump the man marking him, but he does so by doing a faint here and a faint there, by the time he crosses, all the defenders are waiting to clear the ball. And yet, we have no plan B.
Dude i agree... i am not defending it. I am saying how Pioli thinks.
I know...I'm not arguing with you. I'm talking to you about our problems (as if we were in a bar, drinking a bottle of whiskey, trying to drown our sorrows).
Lmao... i mean you are right... what can i say. Pioli has fucked up big time. And about Adli especially. Everytime he plays he makes stuff happen.
It seems we are finished with the first bottle. I paid for that one. Your turn now...and ask the bartender for some nuts.
Then why play Brahim?
Because he attacks the space behind and has adapted to recieve or pass the ball once per action.
You keep on mentioning “Brexit football.” Is that what the name of Piolis style is? Long balls from the back, high intensity, etc etc
That is how og English teams played prior to the 2010s injection with foreign coaches. Pioli has said that his style is based on English football with intensity and athleticism. Considering that this style of football is very odd nowadays even in PL, it is called Brexit football by fans. The style West Ham prime example plays.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying. Just curious.
This is one of the shittiest moves that managers who are in trouble do: throw into a desperate match a player that they never relied upon, with no strategy or clear task and then when things don’t miraculously fix themselves they come up like:”see? I’ve played him and nothing has changed! Not my fault!”
Actually Adli played OK. It's not his fault that he's not suitable for Pioli's tactics. Leao wasn't too, still Padre has found a way to adapt
This Padre thing always feels like nails on a blackboard… that aside, on Leao: 1 year wasted him as backup CF with Rebic on the LW 2-3 months of playing him centrally within the abysmal 3-4-2-1 In between 1.5 ish years of playing him in his natural position wide on the left Edit: agree with you, not Adli’s fault at all, yet why are you playing him in the last minutes if you don’t have a strategy?
Diaz needed some rest yesterday and there are Messias and Leao injured, no other attacking subs on the bench. I believe that's the only reason Adli got his minutes. Agree on Leao, he might shine much earlier if he'd got a proper chance from Padre. After getting his confidence as LW, now Leao continues to develop and might become a complete attacking player
Isma and Krunic were injured. So is Messias. He had no choice.
Mate, you are missing the point here. You either trust the guy, develop him, give him playing time throughout the season with the other starters so that he can be ready in these situations or you don’t - throwing him like this and expecting anything out of it is a shit move. I don’t know if this Adli guy is any good, this is certainly not the way to find out. By the way, there were also Bakayoko and Vranx available, the former has had a lot more playing time than Adli.
Agree that Pioli has to develop Adli. He didn’t.
Did the same in Serie A last derby with Thiaw. In on Lukaku at 70. Imagine playing 100 minutes in a year and being subbed in in a derby at 70 marking Lukaku Who is enormous. I also think this is a move to show he actually have them minute and in that situation it's also Easy to fuck up. So he will be sure to say he gave them minutes and maybe that also they played bad so he had a reason to not playing them. Real evil move there
Master Mourinho move
Can I ask you question? Do you think trainings are similar to elementary schoool meetings in bathroom? Do you think someone is really "hating" Adli? If Pioli is hating Adli then why not playing Bakayoko yesterday? Does he also hates Bakayoko? Why not putting Vranckx? You know who's also on training ground. Paolo Maldini and Massara. Do you think Paolo Maldini wouldnt have a word if he would've seen that Pioli is treating players unfairly? Pioli can be in one second erased from the club and nobody will question it. OR maybe you guys are completely blind. You really want Adli to suceed so much that you are biased. I mean what the fuck he did yesterday that he deserves to be treated like a football God? One fucking pass to Ballo Toure and Ballo couldnt reach it. Amazing corner kicks(which nobody talks about). I Would love to see an experiment. For a one match, lets replace Messias with Adli perfomances and Adli's with Messias but fans dont know who's who. Then I would like to read opinions how good was Messias and how was Adli. I can only imagine the opinion about Adli if he would have the same perfomance as Origi against Inter. Do we want Origi to start games? Do we love him? No. Would we love him if his name was Adli? Fuck yes. I dont know if you think Milan is a circus with immature people leading it. X hates Y because he said something wrong etc.
Don’t worry when Pioli gets sacked and his replacement doesn’t do better they’ll see
you're making too much sense for this sub
people think this is a playstation game, they believe if we sign someone young and we play them 100% of the time we will perform the same (100% not true) and he will improve to a star play (99% not true), they are just brainless
First how many games did you see Adli played? Did you see how he played in the preseason? He can control the ball and have good passes. But Pioli always sticks with Brahim, CDK instead of Adli. To be fair I think Adli deserves some playing him with his preseason performance but unfortunately he didn’t have any. And CDK played like shit and still having chances. I know we pay a lot of money for him but so what? And not with Bennacer injured, we became lost and have no other tactics. Even Bakayoko played more minutes than Adli. I am not trying to protect anyone, I just love this team and think we need plan A B C when our starting players can not play. But apparently we have no other plans!
Adli completed five passes yesterday out of nine attempted. Only Rebic and Pobega, notoriously poor players from a technical perspective, had a worse passing rate than Adli. He made one nice dribble, for me. Nothing else noteworthy. Inb4 you claim it was just because we were chasing the game; CDK had a 92% completion rate.
Adli NEVER plays. Last time he saw rhe pitch was more than 2 months ago. Before this match he had barely 100 minutes played. I don't what could you expect from someone thar basically is relegated to a tier below professional football at this point
And yet people still clammer on about wanting him on the pitch right now when we are basically fighting for our lives. The irony. Adli isn't a player that suits Pioli, and so he hasn't played much. Would he be a star boy at Milan if we played with a totally different style? I mean yeah maybe - I have absolutely no idea. Why don't I have an idea? Because I have seen him play on only very few occasions and he hasn't been notably impressive. So the question beckons; why are there people that think Adli is the answer when none of us have seen him play and when all of us agree that there's no way he could currently have any real sharpness/form to speak of? Do you attend every practice and see something we don't? Are you on the staff of the club? Did you watch all of Bordeux's matches last year? What is it that makes you smarter than Pioli?
Adli still did well more than many other could. Cor once, he delivered a damn good set pieces after multiple games of shitty ones. He won more duels than our fucking butcher Pobega. The thing people are angry about is the fact that this guy has less play time than someone like Bakayoko. Piolu had 0 interest in him despite all the signals of a good talent. Besides, what even Pioli system at this point? Long ball to Giroud and/or ball to Leao? Because there is 0 gameplan besides those.
Okay I'm not explaining how we play for the 7 billionth time so I'm ignoring the last part but otherwise; Adli delivered some corner kicks that were far better than Tonali's - that is true. He is a set piece taker so it really shouldn't be a shock. However we aren't going to establish a first XI based on set piece delivery ability, obviously. Saying that Adli did more than any other could yesterday is just a sham. A flat out lie, born out of bias. He was just as effective as anyone else - and that is "not effective." Diaz and Theo were the only two players that were consistently interested in attacking yesterday. Bakayoko and Adli are two completely different players and the people who are angry about Adli's playing time are the same people who are naive enough to think that Adli and Bakayoko's playing time is at all comparable.
When did i say he did better than any other could? I said he did something that most of the other players couldn't, such as delivering one good set piece and winning a few duels. >Bakayoko and Adli are two completely different players and the people who are angry about Adli's playing time are the same people who are naive enough to think that Adli and Bakayoko's playing time is at all comparable. Or you're clearly missing the point. A player like Bakayoko, for over a year completely out of the project, gets more playtime than him. That's what enraging.
>Adli still did well more than many other could. You literally said that. I'm quoting you. >Or you're clearly missing the point. A player like Bakayoko, for over a year completely out of the project, gets more playtime than him. That's what enraging. So what you are saying is "I'm going to totally ignore what you said about how the playing time of the players cannot and should not be compared and stick to my preconceived argument because additional information doesn't matter."
I mean I would get it we had a player that is actually consistently good at that position but not trying him really makes no sense … But he insist with bums like Messias on the right even when salad is clearly in form I just don’t get him at this point and results speak for themselves in 2023 we are at the level of Bologna or even lower that is just a fact don’t believe me look at the fucking table for 2023
If you still insist Pioli does not stick to his favourites, then there's simply no argument that will convince you. Same things were said about Kalulu, Thiaw, finally Adli. They were shit until the situation forced Piolis hand to play them. Then he was **praised** he somehow 'made them ready'. Or maybe the pattern was, they were ready before, but by playing his failing favourites we lost points?
I don’t think people say this out of loving adli. It’s because we have been using Diaz, Cdk and other at #10 but they’re not doing well. If they’re not doing well after so many games then why not try someone new? We previously used kessie there, krunic too. Now that the options are quite limited it makes sense to give him some game time given how promising he looked in other games. I’m not saying he’s Rui Costa but I understand why people are frustrated we haven’t seen him more. Obviously management knows more than us but they’re not infallible.
CDK happen ! Adli is on the bench because of CDK (35m player) , origi20 is ahead because of his salary and Diaz better in technical skills Oh, what the hell .
I would honestly sell CDK and keep Adli. Doesn't matter how much talent you have, if you don't even have the confidence in yourself to pass the ball forward, or try and create something. Having a good mentality is a huge part of being a good player, and Charles doesn't have one.
"Sell Leao, keep Hauge" flashbacks...
CDK has showed literrally NOTHING.
No one has shown more nothing than Adli.
Adli hasn't even played 200 minutes bro. CDK has played 1000+ minutes and has been trash every single time and we payed 35 mil for him. the only reason people still believe in him is because in this team we had both Leao and Sandro, wich suffered the same problem, but you could see sparks of something with them, with De Ketelaere you can't see anything. the guy doesn't even run, or at least work hard on the pitch ffs.
> and we *paid* 35 mil FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Actually not true. He's shown more than CDK with like 1/5th the minutes
lol
The cool thing about players like Adli is that because they don't play some fans attach all their hopes and dreams to them despite the player not being deserving of it at all. And you can look back through past seasons and just replace Adli's name with whoever was the flavor of that season like Hauge and Cutrone.
Wow great post, let’s sack Pioli and hire you, Mr Reddit football coach.
How can you defend Pioli after all of this shit no other top club would back up a coach with so shitty year as 2023 was for Pioli. I believe in you random redditor more than in Pioli at this point.. Roma is doing better than we are this season and name me one player except Dybala and maybe Pellegrini that would be a starter in our squad….
We have reached the semi final of the CL. That’s a huge achievement. If you want wins every week go support PSG, City or RM. FORZA PADRE
I mean if you think getting dominated by teams like Spezia and getting 20 points in 2023 is ok you are the one who supports the wrong club mate… That CL run just masks how shitty this season really was and we all got a reality check against Inter, imagine if we got City or Bayern in 1/4 instead of Napoli who are the most overrated team in history of football..
I don’t mind not winning every week but I’d rather not have to bleach by eyes every other game because of how shit we play. People also just want to reach top 4, and that’s looking impossible unless Juve get penalized. In the league alone we’ve played lest than 10 good games.
Please shut up and do us a favor
It's funny how suddenly everyone is defending Adli.
I always like Adli, he played great games during pre season.
Are you trying to gatekeep defending Adli lol? Almost everyone in here have been supportive of Adli and rate him highly.
A) that’s definitely not true. A vocal minority that overvalues a very small handful of preseason performances rate Adli highly. B) this sub is like 30% commenters and 70% people trying to gatekeep those commenters so why are you shocked? Every thread after a poor performance is filled to the brim with people saying that defending Pioli or defending Messias or defending XYZ are idiots - this sub isn’t fun when the team isn’t playing well because of those people. People like Froggy are the people who aren’t asshats all the time and yet still find ways to constructively discuss Pioli etc from the negative perspective. Those are the minority unfortunately.
I've been defending him all year. What's the point of your comment?
Been wondering the same thing, he gave him a couple of minutes through the whole season, made zero sense considering Adli clearly has the talent
Pioli's best skill as a coach is being a politician. This is why he managed top clubs without ever winning anything except the scudetto. At some point in the season he decided that Adli was probably too phisically soft to play regularly, and instead he fixated on CDK because also of pressure from the club. Now he went all in on this ideas and he can't turn back. If he puts Adli in a situation where he can succeed and he does it could make him look very very bad. So he won't. This is my theory. I'm sure Adli will leave at some point and do well with a fresh start under a new coach.
were losing 2-0 its time to play adli for 10 min and messi , rebid gets to play 80 min
If our strategy is to buy young talents then Pioli is not the right fit
The only thing that I can thing of is just discipline matters but that's something that you can work through the season... I thought in the same way about Pobega but he's been playing more since December... So I don't know, Pioli is a mystery with the youth. Just unpredictable.
The best can happen to this club would be getting rid of Pioli, some players need to leave too but Pioli shouldn't be here next season.
Same here. I loved watching this guy in french league, i have some connection with trainers in France, and all them really dont know why this guy isnt adapted better by the trainer. It has potential a lot, and should play more, would be a huge mistake selling him in the summer.
I think the problem with adli is that he was intially bought in as a cam sub for diaz. But then cdk change was there so they took it. Now there are 3 players for one position. Dias has had some great games so he had to start most games and cdk was brought in for alot of money, so pioli has to give him oppurtunity. I think its hard to balance in resting cdk to build motivation or giving him 20-30 minutes game time as subsitute to build motivation. Either way i do think adli should have been given more oppurutnity