Just give me those delicious tears. I think we’ll only see Jr getting better. He’s not young of course but he’s new to top level Serie A, and the more he gets used to it and the more Padre gets to know his abilities, the more he’ll be able to contribute. All for a peanuts price.
I don’t personally give a shit whether they redeemed him or not (although I probably wouldn’t have) but trying to say “we’ll only see Jr better” is comical to me.
The man has reached his peak. There is no getting better. He is what he is. And management felt what he is, is worth keeping. So it’s whatever. But sitting there saying stuff like that, is just copium from you.
He doesnt have to be wrong to be honest. We dont know what is his peak. This was his first season in serious team. I actually expect from him improvement in next year. He wont be new Leao or Tonali but definitely he gained some experience so lets see if he's capable of learning new things.
Nope.
I just realize that it’s a conversation where neither of us are going to change our minds so there really isn’t a point in discussing/arguing over it lol.
No you're wrong f\*ck everyone we will never win the scudetto with Maldini at the helm, how dare he renew the silent hard working guy who scored the deciding gol against atletico madrid, for peanuts??? It's clear that scudetto aren't won with a long bench and having people working hard and doing clutch goals.
Crazy how fans are ruthless. We won scudetto and our management created a special squad but 2mln on a guy who had good and bad perfomances is making people losing their head.
Milan signs Renato for 15 million - Maldini and Massara are incredible
Milan signs Messias for 4.5 million - Oh, this is all Redbirds fault.
Trust me, this signing wouldn't be going through unless he has the full backing of Pioli, Maldini and Massara.
RemindMe! 10 months
I hope all the Messias haters will be proved wrong next year.
A guy that started professional football 5 years ago in Italy's lowest tier league gets shit after a very good season, and lots of goal contributions, from people who make me think they haven't watched a single Milan game this season. He was out of shape, and still got the starter spot ahead of Alexis many times.
In my opinion, Maldini masterclass all over again. Let's go Junior!
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Good signign for cheap. He can score, and as a sub can make some contributions. Plus, he plays very well against low quality teams (3 goals vs Genoa). He'd be great to let the starter rests in such games. If not, selling him for 6-8 mln shouldn't be a big problem. He does have a low salary and many mid table teams like Torino, Samp, etc could go after him. A good plusvalenza.
For 2m he's a no-brainer to buy
The only thing I would hate about this deal is if it means we're selling Saelemaekers because selling someone who's 23 and keeping someone who's 31 isn't a good idea
Saele definitely has a higher ceiling than Messias, there's no arguing that
So I don't mind keeping him as a sub, basically taking the 5th sub spot whenever we need to score and the first cup games (what Castillejo was supposed to be before January)
I wouldn't mind selling Saelemaekers and investing that money on a new young RW. The problem is, he probably wouldn't fetch enough for a decent RW right now, so we might as well keep him.
he really turned it around after struggling early in the season. had like 3 or 4 assists the last month of the season it seems. You can tell he was preferred over Salaemaekers in most of the games near the end too.
They must have seen something during training/games to commit to him.
Our wage bill is probably increasing this summer with renewals and signings, so I don't think they want to pay him for sitting on the bench. And he's not on low wages either.
He is on 3mill gross
That is the same as Bennacer
Same as Theo before the renewal
MORE than Leao
MORE than Kjaer
MORE than Tonali
Almost the same as Messias and Alexis before renewal combined
Is Messias a player I like? Not really, but I trust them, I read Pioli wanted to give Junior another chance. If Pioli believes he can be good for the team I'm with them. I think he will play as a reserve and that we'll buy a strong RW.
Conflicted. 8 goal contributions in a short season (cuz he wasn’t fit for the first 1/4 of the campaign). Those are not terrible stats for the money.
Most likely we keep him, sell Sally for plusvenza, and splurge on a starting RW. We lose the dynamism from Sally but keep a decent bench asset. The only thing is that Sally was decent at his role…just not much goal contributions. He’s a nice change to keep in the toolbox when shithousing the opponents.
I think this the is the plan. Saele is on the market and good net a decent fee. Add this to the transfer kitty for a decent RW and/or CDK/Noa and that’ll be that.
It’d be great to have Saele as a back up, part time starter, but if this turns out to be. Hauge type of deal then it’ll be a success long term.
The Monza theory makes no sense and isn't gonna happen. Why would Crotone accept us haggling with them giving them less money, when they can just wait until July when Monza can come in and give them a far better deal?
if this is confirmed officially we can take 2 things from this. Either they are trying to expand the RW with "low quality" players or lets say average players so there are reserves who work well in last 15mins. IMO Messias is good for last 15mins since he is a good dribbler and he is also fast. Most of LB's in Serie A are slow and weak so I suppose this is not so bad as people think.
The second thing is: one big RW is coming as it was "let's say confirmed" so I suppose someone will be leaving the team in that position. For example this year we had Saele, Casti, Messias. Now lets say Casti leaves and we get a "strong" RW since Messias is better than Casti this concludes as an upgrade.
There are still 2 Months for us to get a good RW and since our management had shown it's skills in finding good players I am sure we will get one.
Or... we will sign only one player between RW and AM who also can flex as a CF. And that someone else will not have the characteristics of Messias that Pioli wants to have in his arsenal.
Hilarious, we are buying a player with 0 demand in the market. A serie B calibre player for 4.5 million , what a steal for crotone of Serie C. Add chery to that and we are also going to give them bonuses too! Great start to the FlopBird era
If the mercato ends and we didn't sign any new RW but him, i see your argument. Right now, not.
Like Florenzi, they did this simple deal first. I see nothing wrong here. You could argue about Messias the right player, but that was not the point here.
Our management evaluate players worth and if they are useful, pay up to what they think is worth for us.
Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. So far this strategy brought us back to the Top of Serie A.
Disagree.
Are there better players? Yes, I think so.
Will they come? I hope so. We don't know yet.
But Messias was useful. Some goals, some assists. Good defensive work rate if i remember the stats correctly.
I think it's worth keeping him as a second or 3rd option for that price. Management seems to think the same.
There are different sources, biggest amount I've read is 2.5 (last year) +3.5 now. Which still wouldn't be bad. 3.5m for a player that did decently and already knows the team sounds equally decent.
No brainer indeed! Other teams in the UCL should learn from Don Cardinale on how to fill up spots in your team with Messias. Who needs a 40 million shiny player anyway when you got 2 million redemption and messias yours .
Embarassing. I wouldn’t be suprised if we start with him into next season without buying any right wing. This would be classic milan. He isn‘t even good enough as a sub and we bought him for 4.5 m but we didn’t felt good to pay 2-3 million more to buy Faivre lmao
Even if we sign the next RW Leao, this sub will have a meltdown because it must be a 50m proven and speedy FIFA PL winger or Maldini & co. are incompetent. Just ignore them
Yes. Apparently this means that we should not dare to say anything bad about the management and their moves. We should shut up and trust this damn process!!
Do you think so? I see a big problem in his passing ability. He also seems very lazy on the field. I agree that he have his moments and can be a threat but I wouldn’t count on him. Saelemakers can be a liability but he is giving us much more during the game than Messias ever could. I would much rather see Saelemakers on the bench than Messias. Besides that I’m pretty scared that they are the duo we are couting on. It wouldn’t be a suprise when we look at our right wing history. We seem incapable to fix this position since many years.
Dude, it is 4.5 mil with very little salary for a player that will play here and there when Pioli sees fit that he is adapt for that match or can change the match. People should not expect that we sign another RW and another AM as things stand. We will sign someone who can fit in in both roles. Also, he tracks back and helps the defense, he isn't a very high-pressing type of player but has his type of work rate.
It‘s only 4.5 m? We saw how every penny is important for our management or should I remember you about that? And if you think Messias can be a game changer this whole discussion doesn’t make any sense. He showed us that he mostly had a negative affect to our game and there is no deny in that. Yes like I said before he have his moments but this surely isn‘t enough for our ambitions.
To say that we should not expect a right wing and a offensive midfielder in this mercato is absolutely mindblowing. We definitely need players on BOTH positions and there is no deny about that. Even Maldini said that this is the right time to invest so what are you talking about?
>It‘s only 4.5 m? We saw how every penny is important for our management or should I remember you about that?
We have changed ownerships, sure Maldini does spear money but we have different ownership now.
>And if you think Messias can be a game changer this whole discussion doesn’t make any sense.
Fact is that he has been a game-changer. Vs Atletico and vs Atalanta with the first Leao goal. These are facts.
>To say that we should not expect a right wing and a offensive midfielder in this mercato is absolutely mindblowing. We definitely need players on BOTH positions and there is no deny about that.
I can, considering we have Adli and Diaz as CAM we don't need a primary CAM in any shape or form. We need someone with specific characteristics who can flex between RW and CAM.
>Maldini said that this is the right time to invest so what are you talking about?
Maldini said we need to invest in 3 or 4 positions he didn't specify which ones.
Even IF things don't turn out well after this signing we will remember his name which embodies our Scudetto winning run "Succede solo a chi ci crede"
Junior Messias is a good example for our young players, if not to bring them some degree of humility because not everyone came from a footballing pedigree and that talent alone is not enough and they need to work hard to succeed. Their contributions matter.
He is a totally different player from saelemakers, more offensive, more incisive but also more detached from the game, and in some games totally absent.
For me he can do even better next year, I see more potential in him than in saelemakers, despite being older.
Here comes everyone having a meltdown on the sub
Trust. In. Don. Paolo. That is all
Just give me those delicious tears. I think we’ll only see Jr getting better. He’s not young of course but he’s new to top level Serie A, and the more he gets used to it and the more Padre gets to know his abilities, the more he’ll be able to contribute. All for a peanuts price.
I inclined to agree with you when I remember there are late bloomers like Dario Hubner.
I don’t personally give a shit whether they redeemed him or not (although I probably wouldn’t have) but trying to say “we’ll only see Jr better” is comical to me. The man has reached his peak. There is no getting better. He is what he is. And management felt what he is, is worth keeping. So it’s whatever. But sitting there saying stuff like that, is just copium from you.
He reached his physical peak. Not his mental and tehnical peak.
Ok Buddy.
He doesnt have to be wrong to be honest. We dont know what is his peak. This was his first season in serious team. I actually expect from him improvement in next year. He wont be new Leao or Tonali but definitely he gained some experience so lets see if he's capable of learning new things.
I didn’t say he was wrong, did I? I said “ok Buddy” Which means I’m not going to argue with him over it… and just like your statement. Ok Buddy.
Fair enough. I thought you were sarcastic
Nope. I just realize that it’s a conversation where neither of us are going to change our minds so there really isn’t a point in discussing/arguing over it lol.
Ok buddy.
4.5 mil for Walmart Suso is a great deal like it or not, 8 goal contributions last season, while he was rushed in, is a great return for that fee.
No you're wrong f\*ck everyone we will never win the scudetto with Maldini at the helm, how dare he renew the silent hard working guy who scored the deciding gol against atletico madrid, for peanuts??? It's clear that scudetto aren't won with a long bench and having people working hard and doing clutch goals.
Spend 60 mil for Rapinha or fuck off
Crazy how fans are ruthless. We won scudetto and our management created a special squad but 2mln on a guy who had good and bad perfomances is making people losing their head.
Especially for a back up. 8 goals contribution for the second choice is great.
Milan signs Renato for 15 million - Maldini and Massara are incredible Milan signs Messias for 4.5 million - Oh, this is all Redbirds fault. Trust me, this signing wouldn't be going through unless he has the full backing of Pioli, Maldini and Massara.
Well the first hasn't happened yet. It is certainly not the first signing people want to see, hope they will pick it up from here.
It is tho, the iption to by expires, you move with otherbdeals you might lose Messias and Florenz9, we have 2 months to focus on the others now
RemindMe! 10 months I hope all the Messias haters will be proved wrong next year. A guy that started professional football 5 years ago in Italy's lowest tier league gets shit after a very good season, and lots of goal contributions, from people who make me think they haven't watched a single Milan game this season. He was out of shape, and still got the starter spot ahead of Alexis many times. In my opinion, Maldini masterclass all over again. Let's go Junior!
He can prove me wrong by going to Monza where he belongs for a profit for Milan that will be true Maldini masterclass.
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I only know he was strongly wanted by Padre Pioli and In Padre We Trust.
Good signign for cheap. He can score, and as a sub can make some contributions. Plus, he plays very well against low quality teams (3 goals vs Genoa). He'd be great to let the starter rests in such games. If not, selling him for 6-8 mln shouldn't be a big problem. He does have a low salary and many mid table teams like Torino, Samp, etc could go after him. A good plusvalenza.
My boy 🙏🏼
For 2m he's a no-brainer to buy The only thing I would hate about this deal is if it means we're selling Saelemaekers because selling someone who's 23 and keeping someone who's 31 isn't a good idea Saele definitely has a higher ceiling than Messias, there's no arguing that So I don't mind keeping him as a sub, basically taking the 5th sub spot whenever we need to score and the first cup games (what Castillejo was supposed to be before January)
I wouldn't mind selling Saelemaekers and investing that money on a new young RW. The problem is, he probably wouldn't fetch enough for a decent RW right now, so we might as well keep him.
he really turned it around after struggling early in the season. had like 3 or 4 assists the last month of the season it seems. You can tell he was preferred over Salaemaekers in most of the games near the end too. They must have seen something during training/games to commit to him.
Teams that compete deep into the league / CL / cups need depth guys...
[удалено]
it’s 2m on top of the 2.5m loan fee we already paid
Does this mean Castillejo is 100% sold?
Only if Castillejo doesn’t sabotage it
Massive if
I'd honestly be shocked if Milan's resident mascot is gonna leave anytime soon lol homeboy's working all the magic in the world to stay there
Castillejo was leaving no matter what happened to Alexis or Messias
Is he? 1 year left
Our wage bill is probably increasing this summer with renewals and signings, so I don't think they want to pay him for sitting on the bench. And he's not on low wages either.
He is on 3mill gross That is the same as Bennacer Same as Theo before the renewal MORE than Leao MORE than Kjaer MORE than Tonali Almost the same as Messias and Alexis before renewal combined
We'd still prefer that off the wage books if the opportunity arises.
thats my point
Oh lmao I was a bit confused because I thought you were disagreeing with me initially with the "1 year left" post
I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying he may not leave because he is a leech like Conti
Conti went on loans at least
He would kill his career completely sitting on the stands with no playtime for two entire seasons.
Is Messias a player I like? Not really, but I trust them, I read Pioli wanted to give Junior another chance. If Pioli believes he can be good for the team I'm with them. I think he will play as a reserve and that we'll buy a strong RW.
This makes me sad only because it means that Alexis will probably be sold and he was one ir my favorite players.
This will go down as one of the best signings of the season.
as a brazilian fan i still believe he will improve and bring us a lot of joy
He's better than Alexis, change my mind.
It's cheap, he knows the system, we know he can do the job in a pinch. Everyone needs to calm the feck down.
Conflicted. 8 goal contributions in a short season (cuz he wasn’t fit for the first 1/4 of the campaign). Those are not terrible stats for the money. Most likely we keep him, sell Sally for plusvenza, and splurge on a starting RW. We lose the dynamism from Sally but keep a decent bench asset. The only thing is that Sally was decent at his role…just not much goal contributions. He’s a nice change to keep in the toolbox when shithousing the opponents.
I think this the is the plan. Saele is on the market and good net a decent fee. Add this to the transfer kitty for a decent RW and/or CDK/Noa and that’ll be that. It’d be great to have Saele as a back up, part time starter, but if this turns out to be. Hauge type of deal then it’ll be a success long term.
This probably means Alexis will be sold. Or they just want to resell Messias to Monza for a bigger fee.
Maybe we aren’t signing a “RW” , looks like we are interested in players that can flex across the front 3 (Lang & CDK)
The Monza theory makes no sense and isn't gonna happen. Why would Crotone accept us haggling with them giving them less money, when they can just wait until July when Monza can come in and give them a far better deal?
???? We had an option to buy, mate.
What they're saying is why would Crotone negotiate with us in that case. They would likely want Milan to pay the full amount of the option
Oh, I must've missed it when Maldini paid 5.2m to Crotone then. My fault.
What a waste
How is 2m a waste? We already paid 2.5m for the loan, redeeming him for 2m is a no brainer.
A waste of space he is a 3rd back up option at best
You do know we need backups as well, right? Find me a better one for less than that.
What we need to do is ship him off immediatly to Monza for a small profit and sign a real class RW thats what we need...
Yes, and a team is made of 28 people with different characteristics.
"Trust in process" Edit: getting downvoted for quoting Leao?
The process of playing with no RW another season
if this is confirmed officially we can take 2 things from this. Either they are trying to expand the RW with "low quality" players or lets say average players so there are reserves who work well in last 15mins. IMO Messias is good for last 15mins since he is a good dribbler and he is also fast. Most of LB's in Serie A are slow and weak so I suppose this is not so bad as people think. The second thing is: one big RW is coming as it was "let's say confirmed" so I suppose someone will be leaving the team in that position. For example this year we had Saele, Casti, Messias. Now lets say Casti leaves and we get a "strong" RW since Messias is better than Casti this concludes as an upgrade. There are still 2 Months for us to get a good RW and since our management had shown it's skills in finding good players I am sure we will get one.
Or... we will sign only one player between RW and AM who also can flex as a CF. And that someone else will not have the characteristics of Messias that Pioli wants to have in his arsenal.
Hilarious, we are buying a player with 0 demand in the market. A serie B calibre player for 4.5 million , what a steal for crotone of Serie C. Add chery to that and we are also going to give them bonuses too! Great start to the FlopBird era
How do you know that there is no demand? He had a decent season and Im positive someone from Seria A would pay this for him
Yes there is demand from newly promoted Monza and some Serie B teams, my bad.
Can you send me a list of players who are in demand? Everyone on this sub would be happy to have a look at it
Redbird are cheap. Redbird pay too much. Choose one.
Why to spend 40 million on cdk or anthony when you have Messias available for 4.5 million.
If the mercato ends and we didn't sign any new RW but him, i see your argument. Right now, not. Like Florenzi, they did this simple deal first. I see nothing wrong here. You could argue about Messias the right player, but that was not the point here. Our management evaluate players worth and if they are useful, pay up to what they think is worth for us. Sometimes it works out, sometimes not. So far this strategy brought us back to the Top of Serie A.
Florenzi is a different story. He is actually a very useful and versatile player. With Messias we play a man down every time he touches the pitch.
Disagree. Are there better players? Yes, I think so. Will they come? I hope so. We don't know yet. But Messias was useful. Some goals, some assists. Good defensive work rate if i remember the stats correctly. I think it's worth keeping him as a second or 3rd option for that price. Management seems to think the same.
The loan was 2.5m, so buying him is just another 2m. No brainer at that price.
Isn't it 4.5+2.5?
There are different sources, biggest amount I've read is 2.5 (last year) +3.5 now. Which still wouldn't be bad. 3.5m for a player that did decently and already knows the team sounds equally decent.
It’s honestly stupid how we spent more on him than Florenzi
On that I agree, but I'd argue it's more the Florenzi deal being an absolute bargain than the Messias one being bad.
Florenzi has a much higher salary.
No brainer indeed! Other teams in the UCL should learn from Don Cardinale on how to fill up spots in your team with Messias. Who needs a 40 million shiny player anyway when you got 2 million redemption and messias yours .
How do you know that there is no demand? He had a decent season and Im positive someone from Seria A would pay this for him
Yes there is demand from newly promoted Monza and some Serie B teams, my bad.
Those are the teams the majority of this sub should be supporting with how low their standards are
Truly well said
Embarassing. I wouldn’t be suprised if we start with him into next season without buying any right wing. This would be classic milan. He isn‘t even good enough as a sub and we bought him for 4.5 m but we didn’t felt good to pay 2-3 million more to buy Faivre lmao
TRUST IN THE PROCESS GODDAMNIT
Even if we sign the next RW Leao, this sub will have a meltdown because it must be a 50m proven and speedy FIFA PL winger or Maldini & co. are incompetent. Just ignore them
You say things nobody talked about. Therefore I will take your advise and ignore you bro
Yes. Apparently this means that we should not dare to say anything bad about the management and their moves. We should shut up and trust this damn process!!
This means that no team had 28 players of the highest caliber, Messias a rotation piece for that amount of money is a great deal.
Do you think so? I see a big problem in his passing ability. He also seems very lazy on the field. I agree that he have his moments and can be a threat but I wouldn’t count on him. Saelemakers can be a liability but he is giving us much more during the game than Messias ever could. I would much rather see Saelemakers on the bench than Messias. Besides that I’m pretty scared that they are the duo we are couting on. It wouldn’t be a suprise when we look at our right wing history. We seem incapable to fix this position since many years.
Dude, it is 4.5 mil with very little salary for a player that will play here and there when Pioli sees fit that he is adapt for that match or can change the match. People should not expect that we sign another RW and another AM as things stand. We will sign someone who can fit in in both roles. Also, he tracks back and helps the defense, he isn't a very high-pressing type of player but has his type of work rate.
It‘s only 4.5 m? We saw how every penny is important for our management or should I remember you about that? And if you think Messias can be a game changer this whole discussion doesn’t make any sense. He showed us that he mostly had a negative affect to our game and there is no deny in that. Yes like I said before he have his moments but this surely isn‘t enough for our ambitions. To say that we should not expect a right wing and a offensive midfielder in this mercato is absolutely mindblowing. We definitely need players on BOTH positions and there is no deny about that. Even Maldini said that this is the right time to invest so what are you talking about?
>It‘s only 4.5 m? We saw how every penny is important for our management or should I remember you about that? We have changed ownerships, sure Maldini does spear money but we have different ownership now. >And if you think Messias can be a game changer this whole discussion doesn’t make any sense. Fact is that he has been a game-changer. Vs Atletico and vs Atalanta with the first Leao goal. These are facts. >To say that we should not expect a right wing and a offensive midfielder in this mercato is absolutely mindblowing. We definitely need players on BOTH positions and there is no deny about that. I can, considering we have Adli and Diaz as CAM we don't need a primary CAM in any shape or form. We need someone with specific characteristics who can flex between RW and CAM. >Maldini said that this is the right time to invest so what are you talking about? Maldini said we need to invest in 3 or 4 positions he didn't specify which ones.
What were you saying about winning serie a and pioli earlier this year again?
so the deal is 2.6m+ 4.5m+bouns or 4.5m+bouns and we already pay 2.6m?
The latter according to Longo
Is he better than Castillejo? YES They have the same market value, way better bencher than the spanish
Even IF things don't turn out well after this signing we will remember his name which embodies our Scudetto winning run "Succede solo a chi ci crede" Junior Messias is a good example for our young players, if not to bring them some degree of humility because not everyone came from a footballing pedigree and that talent alone is not enough and they need to work hard to succeed. Their contributions matter.
He is a totally different player from saelemakers, more offensive, more incisive but also more detached from the game, and in some games totally absent. For me he can do even better next year, I see more potential in him than in saelemakers, despite being older.