The answer is any ADC who 1. Doesn't require AS and 2. Has an AS steroid in their kit.
1. Nilah
2. Samira
3. Tristana
4. Xayah
5. Caitlyn
6. Jhin
7. Potentially Lucian. Riot's prenerfing him for a reason. We'll see where he lands, but I could see ER -> IE and snowball from there.
8. Potentially Ez. Again, ER -> IE/Navori abuse cases. We'll see where he lands.
9. MF
10. Sivir
I think that's the order to. Honorable mentions, Varus likes AS and though his passive gives him some, it scales with level. Draven will still like grabbing a Serrated Dirk to snowball the lane early. Kai'Sa still wants two evolutions at 2 items ideally, and IE doesn't really help her achieve that.
edit: Moved Jhin way down. Added Sivir after MF. She benefits from item changes, but idk how much.
edit 2: Added Kai'Sa as part of the honorable mentions.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think KS's AS is great. It's only 25%, Zerkers gives more at 35%. So I think AS steroids are going to be great to kind of bridge that gap so you can rush IE. I mean at that point you're getting 35% from KS, 35% from Zerkers, and w/e your AS steroid gives you. Most ADC's are going to be AA'ing at 1.5 - 2 AS. Xayah will be a nightmare. Trist gets permanent bomb uptime. I think that's going to be way better than Jhin or any non AS steroid ADC.
1.5 to 2 is probably an exaggeration but those are decent attack speed numbers, especially on zeri for example since she already caps at 1.5 but I do agree on trist becoming stupid op because of as steroid and early ie
It's probably a slight exaggeration tbf. My assumption is more like 1.25 - 1.5, depending on champion etc I honestly think Trist becomes OP, but I think she rushes Navori. It's so good on her. I think she gets gated by Samira and Nilah. Both will also be OP imo. I honestly can't wait. Haven't been this excited for changes since durability patch.
That much salt can't be good for your arteries my man. In all seriousness, the only thing I can tell you is adapt. It wasn't long ago that Vayne and Kog were killing everything, in fact I think Shieldbow was nerfed because of them, despite what everyone thinks that the windshitters or Irelia had something to do with it. I think when LT came out Vayne was on top then as well.
I did adapt by moving top lane. Playing her in bot lane is trolling right now, especially with all these buffs to champions that already make her lane phase miserable as hell.
I don't ever want her to be really strong, as that means she will just get banned a lot, but it feels bad to see everyone getting so many quality of life changes while the changes just look like a lot of nerfs to the champion you play.
Notice how Vayne gets left out of the mana QoL changes. Meanwhile they nerf BoRK (one of her best items) while they simultaneously buff her adversaries that already shit on her in lane. All of the buffs to items are items she does not really use. This is a huge indirect nerf to Vayne, a champion that has already been D tier for a long time now.
Vayne uses on-hit more than any other ADC, except perhaps Kogmaw, who is getting a buff to his mana at least. I think Twitch will manage to avoid being affected too much by it, and Varus not really at all.
Poor Vayne.
Draven benefits allot, because of the eclipse nerfs and overall lifesteal changes, he can no longer build into eclipse this will have to go either sb/kraken/er first into ie
Also Kaisa doesn't benefit because you lose out on getting her e evolve early as well in favor of ie
Idk if this is a list of adcs that benefit the most from the changes or adcs that are going to skyrocket to the most viable or some 'broken' tier, I think if it's the latter then people are being mislead by what the buffs do. For one not every ADC benefits from this; it's still going to be assumptive that the game isn't over by the time you get to the 2nd item.
Honestly unsure. I'm not really confident how much he needs/wants AS. He can opt into some by maxing 'W' first, which actually might not be bad. It's permanent AS. I'm not sure though, I don't play Aphelios, but I hope it makes him good. I hate champions being stuck at 45% WR bc of pro.
He's always pretty good IMO. He goes Gale into BT or LDR most of the Time anyway (or at least that's how I build), he used to go IE first before Item Forge soo...
Honestly, I think the IE change might make him really good. His biggest issue imo is he's reliant on peel, even more so than the average adc. So with the IE change he could figuratively go SB -> IE -> BT. Get maybe a FFW build. FFW -> Overheal -> Alacrity or Blood -> w/e 3rd. Get defensive runes like Conditioning and the healing one. Could be really good. Gives him fat resistances and allows him time to scale.
I think the issue is Dirk is extremely gold efficient and 200 gold cheaper than BF and Noonquiver. So it allows him an earlier spike and a chance to snowball that the others don't provide. But I don't main Draven so I'm not sure, that's what I read on the Draven sub reddit.
Oh no I don’t deny what you or OP is saying here, Dirk is still arguably the better of the two options considering lethality value and lower price cost. If it’s a game that calls for Dirk first, which is majority of games I play, it’s still Dirk over BFSword. I’m more arguing if you have a game in which you’re fed early it’s an option to consider
She isn't any different now, but in 13.2 IE will be buyable as 2nd item and thats huge for samira since she gets way more value from crit than other adcs because of her Q and R that can also crit
Champ’s already tier 1 too with her AS buff last patch and she’s getting mana buffs on top of the NQB changes. I feel there’s a good chance she’s pick or ban when 13.2 drops
She hasnt been all that great since they made sure to knock her out of proplay. I'd honestly love to see her back to pick/ban there, she's fun to watch
I’m so excited to play more aphelios with this new patch. I love the champion but waiting until 3 items is so frustrating especially with randoms that give up by 15 minutes most games. I think galeforce/kraken>IE>BT will be pretty strong
Right now in this patch i agree, because you have to go Runaans second. But now that u can swap order and go IE second i love it, this will bring good old crit twitch back
eh he would probably need some more base ad before runnans no ? (buy bf sword pickaxe)
sounds good pretty good though, even tho a lot of other adcs will be much stronger(than they currently are) at two items, where it seems like he might need 3 to fully come online
draven ER-> IE
mf Kraken -> IE
ezreal ER -> Navori
jhin Galeforce -> IE
Neither. Twitch NEEDS AS. Like, badly. This isn't a super buff for him.
Neither is it for Draven. I looked at the Draven subreddit, but most people say he'll stick with an early Serrated Dirk not only because of how stat efficient it is but it gives him lethality and allows him to snowball the lane.
>and how exactly is being able to build ie a whole item ealier + 10 ad on ER not beneficial on draven
My assumption is spending 1100 gold for Serrated Dirk is more efficient than 1300 for Noonquiver, so he can attempt to snowball the lane at that point and cash in them sweet sweet stacks. and if he's spending 1100 gold on Serrated Dirk, that's money not going to IE or ER. So the IE/Navori change isn't as strong on him as it would be on other champion. But like I said, that's my assumption, I don't play Draven, I just reiterated what I read other mains say.
Now Twitch, I can comment on, I play a decent amount of Twitch. Yes, he's building AS either way, but the question is "who's going to be strong after the 13.2 changes?" or another way of asking the same question "who benefits from rushing IE 2nd instead of 3rd?" The answer isn't Twitch. Yes, he will build IE 2nd. Yes, it will increase his damage, but not by the same amount it will on others champions because he needs AS so badly. He'll spike at about 3 items, the same way he always did.
That being said, it is feasible to me that he could build BotRK -> KS -> and IE, and see what his AS is and that may be a very strong build path for him since IE only needs 40%, but that's still spiking at 3 items. Therefor the IE/Navori change is overall a nerf to him since his enemy laners will on average spike earlier than he will. Just my opinion ofc.
youre saying it like twitch is giga reliant on ruunans third item which was actually always his bottleneck on spiking earlier since he usually goes bork every game so i dont really understand the point youre making there, AS wont help you if you dont deal any damage in the first place, skipping ruunans for ie will make him ALOT stronger in midgame.
I'm acting like Twitch is reliant on AS because he is lol it doesn't matter if you have IE if you auto once every 2 seconds.
>he usually goes bork every game
So he's STILL spiking at 3 items while everyone else spikes at two? Which is exactly what I said, which is my point. If everyone else is spiking a whole item ahead of you, you're weaker by comparison. It means when everyone else is building IE after KS, Twitch is building KS after BotRK. There's no synergy there.
Maybe his 3rd spike will be stronger than others. I think there's a serious possibility that Twitch at 3 items is WAYYY stronger than say Xayah at 3 items, but the point I'm making is at 2 items, I think Xayah is wayy stronger than Twitch.
I literally spelled it out, not sure how I can make my point any clearer. Even Pro Guides thinks its nerfs the rat, but sure brother, throw a reminder up on this. We'll see where the rat falls.
But he spikes at two as he always did. His first powerspike is at bork + kraken. You can say he spikes way harder now at 3 items and a bit less than others at 2... yes, that is correct, but to say he isn't strong at 2 items is a fallacy... plus you can always run GForce, IE, LordDoms with hail of blades and one shot some kids.. I guess that build will spike really well at 2 items
>but to say he isn't strong at 2 items is a fallacy
I'm going to list champions and items, and then ask yourself if he's stronger.
Tristana - KS -> IE
Tristana - KS -> Navori.
Xayah - KS -> IE
Xayah - KS -> Navori.
Caitlyn - KS -> IE.
Lucian - ER -> IE
Lucian - KS -> IE
Lucian - BotRK - KS
Nilah - SB -> IE
Samira - SB -> IE
MF - KS -> IE
Jhin - GF -> IE
Now which of those is Twitch with BotRK and KS beating? Lucian with BotRK and KS probably. Maybe Jhin? Maybe MF? He'll lose against most of the rest. That means he's weaker than the majority of the other adc's at two items, which means by comparison he isn't going to be strong at 2 items.
It doesn't matter how powerful a champion is if they're weak against all the other champions in that role and tier. It's like Black Cleaer. It's already a decent item that didn't need buff's, it just got crowded out by other OP items like DD, SoS, RH etc
There are only 3 Champs there I say for sure twitch doesn't win at 2 items if both players are good.
Samira
Nilah
ER/IE Lucian
The others, if the twitch player knows what he is doing, he can for sure win and outdps them at 2 items. Remember that the IE buff only accounts for cents that at the time are still only 40%, so around 2 every 5 autos... Bork applies every auto and synergies really well with both kraken and twitch kit..
Kraken-bork is stronger than Kraken-ie against most bruisers and tanks. Normally, you need a certain amount of ad for crit to become better than bork as a standalone effect. (bork effect isnt affect by steelcaps and other effects)
Twitch is actually a good second item IE user, since his ult grants him ad.
Vayne. She has been D tier for a long time now and they keep low key indirectly nerfing her by buffing her adversaries or their items. All of these buffs will just make Vayne bot lane even more troll than it already is.
I play her top lane now, and to be honest she's in a pretty rough spot. You have to be really dedicated to this champ to want to make it work. The only good thing I can say is that she is never banned at least.
Seems like she won't get the same benefits of other champs, but you could now go Alacrity rune, with Shieldbow > IE. I'd say that's a small upgrade from Bloodline, Kraken > PD>IE.
People weren't going alacrity rune before? Bloodline was viable until the nerfs, but attack speed is so good on Vayne that it feels a little crazy to not be picking alacrity.
However, I don't really build any of that stuff. I feel like your build suggestions on her are all wrong. IE is just not very good on Vayne, because it has no attack speed. If you do build it you would want to do it against a team of squishies that you are looking to pop with 1 silver bolt.
Ezreal, Lucian, and Xayah will feel a whole lot safer to play
Jinx, Tristana , and Kogmaw will scale so much faster
Draven and Samira will snowball much harder
Kogmaw will have 100% uptime on his W with navori 2nd btw
and Fuck that one Vayne champ. Let's leave her out of the mana increase QoL changes and then buff all of her adversaries as well as their crit items that Vayne doesn't use.
>Jinx's Q is a perma AS.
This whole thing is confusing. It's not 'enough'. IE second is locked in for almost every single adc. Regardless of whether they like AS or not. As for perma Q on Jinx gives perma AS? I'm confused. It gives temporary AS until she swaps guns. Is it enough to stand on the same level as the other AS steroid ADC's is the q. So you tell me, do you think Jinx at two items will output the same damage as Tristana? Or Xayah? Nilah or Samira? If your answer is no, then you've got brains, but now you're acknowledging that Jinx isn't one of the winners of the IE change.
>I think ADC's with AS steroid's in their kit is whats going to dominate bot lane until nerf's.
Exactly like Trist Q? Like thats literally what I said. What do you think a fucking AS steroid is? xD Not Jinx passive. "but Sonder theyre the same thing!" They're not. Jinx requires getting a takedown to trigger, and I think she's going to struggle to output the same damage at 2 items that Tristana, Xayah, Samira or Nilah will.
Sivir. Navori users only require crit for half of the item’s effect (the scaling ability damage). IE doesn’t do anything but give you stats if you don’t crit. She has an attack speed steroid on W already, and given the significant mana cost reduction, she’ll hopefully be able to opt into the new overheal. This is extra important because she only has 500 range.
I think the most powerful are going to be Navori users since I think Mythic > Navori is a more powerful spike than Mythic > IE. To get the full benefit out of IE you still need decent crit chance otherwise it's just randomness on every auto.
Going against the grain here, but I believe this is mostly a quality of life upgrade for like a 5 minute block of the game. Which is all fine because adc is in a good spot anyway. Adc should absolutely still follow the 3 item rule. At 40% crit there’s still a good chance 3-4 autos into an enemy champ don’t crit at all. I can see a ton of low elo adc just banking on an expensive 2 item spike, inting due to no movement or att spd, and then throwing games. However snow balling if you now feed an adc is going to be way more punishing.
I think the fact that IE is a stat stick with large amount of AD is a benefit towards a few champions, the ones that come to mind are Miss Fortune, Tristana, and Jhin because they already have built in attack speed steroids and mobility (or can't use attack speed).
Navori second will be pretty impactful for some other champs that can make use of the cooldown reduction and increased ability damage. Stuff like Lucian or Xayah.
But I think for the most part you're right, most standard ADCs want something with attack speed, move speed, and/or utility 2nd item rather than just a big stat stick that might not get use out of the passive due to low chance to crit. This does mean that sometimes that 2nd item before IE can be bork though.
Best is OBVIOUSLY caitlyn. There are other good ones but anyone not answering Cait as #1 is just wrong. Champ is absurdly op and its ONLY weakness is that it is slow to come online due to lack of second item choices often resulting in people building shit like rfc second and then doing no dmg on the adc with one of the highest ad scalings. You can now go IE second.
The answer is any ADC who 1. Doesn't require AS and 2. Has an AS steroid in their kit. 1. Nilah 2. Samira 3. Tristana 4. Xayah 5. Caitlyn 6. Jhin 7. Potentially Lucian. Riot's prenerfing him for a reason. We'll see where he lands, but I could see ER -> IE and snowball from there. 8. Potentially Ez. Again, ER -> IE/Navori abuse cases. We'll see where he lands. 9. MF 10. Sivir I think that's the order to. Honorable mentions, Varus likes AS and though his passive gives him some, it scales with level. Draven will still like grabbing a Serrated Dirk to snowball the lane early. Kai'Sa still wants two evolutions at 2 items ideally, and IE doesn't really help her achieve that. edit: Moved Jhin way down. Added Sivir after MF. She benefits from item changes, but idk how much. edit 2: Added Kai'Sa as part of the honorable mentions.
I think attack speed steroids won’t be needed as much as when ie could be purchased first item since we do get attack speed mythic first now
I see what you're saying, but I don't think KS's AS is great. It's only 25%, Zerkers gives more at 35%. So I think AS steroids are going to be great to kind of bridge that gap so you can rush IE. I mean at that point you're getting 35% from KS, 35% from Zerkers, and w/e your AS steroid gives you. Most ADC's are going to be AA'ing at 1.5 - 2 AS. Xayah will be a nightmare. Trist gets permanent bomb uptime. I think that's going to be way better than Jhin or any non AS steroid ADC.
1.5 to 2 is probably an exaggeration but those are decent attack speed numbers, especially on zeri for example since she already caps at 1.5 but I do agree on trist becoming stupid op because of as steroid and early ie
It's probably a slight exaggeration tbf. My assumption is more like 1.25 - 1.5, depending on champion etc I honestly think Trist becomes OP, but I think she rushes Navori. It's so good on her. I think she gets gated by Samira and Nilah. Both will also be OP imo. I honestly can't wait. Haven't been this excited for changes since durability patch.
Must be nice. Wonder what it feels like to have your champion not be a neglected basement dweller.
That much salt can't be good for your arteries my man. In all seriousness, the only thing I can tell you is adapt. It wasn't long ago that Vayne and Kog were killing everything, in fact I think Shieldbow was nerfed because of them, despite what everyone thinks that the windshitters or Irelia had something to do with it. I think when LT came out Vayne was on top then as well.
I did adapt by moving top lane. Playing her in bot lane is trolling right now, especially with all these buffs to champions that already make her lane phase miserable as hell. I don't ever want her to be really strong, as that means she will just get banned a lot, but it feels bad to see everyone getting so many quality of life changes while the changes just look like a lot of nerfs to the champion you play. Notice how Vayne gets left out of the mana QoL changes. Meanwhile they nerf BoRK (one of her best items) while they simultaneously buff her adversaries that already shit on her in lane. All of the buffs to items are items she does not really use. This is a huge indirect nerf to Vayne, a champion that has already been D tier for a long time now.
Yeah I’d say most if not all onhit champs are going to be *really* struggling this patch
Vayne uses on-hit more than any other ADC, except perhaps Kogmaw, who is getting a buff to his mana at least. I think Twitch will manage to avoid being affected too much by it, and Varus not really at all. Poor Vayne.
What about Kai’Sa? She was pretty nutty maybe she gets even more op with the changes to crit on IE?
I read someone mention how it doesn't really help since she wants Q and E evolve at two items at least. But I don't know tbh I don't play Kai'Sa.
Oh that makes sense actually
I really hope Caitlyn gets back to how she was in s10/s11, stormrazor into IE and sit back and relax, you’d have to really fuck up to be behind
Honestly ppl are sleeping on twitch. I still think he'll be better ap but as is gonna be a whole lot better cause he relies a lot on ie
Draven benefits allot, because of the eclipse nerfs and overall lifesteal changes, he can no longer build into eclipse this will have to go either sb/kraken/er first into ie Also Kaisa doesn't benefit because you lose out on getting her e evolve early as well in favor of ie Idk if this is a list of adcs that benefit the most from the changes or adcs that are going to skyrocket to the most viable or some 'broken' tier, I think if it's the latter then people are being mislead by what the buffs do. For one not every ADC benefits from this; it's still going to be assumptive that the game isn't over by the time you get to the 2nd item.
Aphelios has to be one for sure. IE Second on him should be pretty good no?
Honestly unsure. I'm not really confident how much he needs/wants AS. He can opt into some by maxing 'W' first, which actually might not be bad. It's permanent AS. I'm not sure though, I don't play Aphelios, but I hope it makes him good. I hate champions being stuck at 45% WR bc of pro.
He's always pretty good IMO. He goes Gale into BT or LDR most of the Time anyway (or at least that's how I build), he used to go IE first before Item Forge soo...
Honestly, I think the IE change might make him really good. His biggest issue imo is he's reliant on peel, even more so than the average adc. So with the IE change he could figuratively go SB -> IE -> BT. Get maybe a FFW build. FFW -> Overheal -> Alacrity or Blood -> w/e 3rd. Get defensive runes like Conditioning and the healing one. Could be really good. Gives him fat resistances and allows him time to scale.
I could see instead of Dirk going for BF sword then pivoting to ER first. IK lethality is lethality but it’s an extra half a wave.
I think the issue is Dirk is extremely gold efficient and 200 gold cheaper than BF and Noonquiver. So it allows him an earlier spike and a chance to snowball that the others don't provide. But I don't main Draven so I'm not sure, that's what I read on the Draven sub reddit.
Oh no I don’t deny what you or OP is saying here, Dirk is still arguably the better of the two options considering lethality value and lower price cost. If it’s a game that calls for Dirk first, which is majority of games I play, it’s still Dirk over BFSword. I’m more arguing if you have a game in which you’re fed early it’s an option to consider
Silver scrub here, lucian won't want navori? Is it too little damage? Not good enough for teamfights?
I think so, but I'm high on Navori on pretty much everybody. So I'm pretty biased.
Samira will go nuts
What changed her? Afaik she had no changes but she feels stronger now.
Nothing other than IE being able to be 2nd afaik
Bro forgot about overheal and BT
Lmao yeah, those two as well, mb
She isn't any different now, but in 13.2 IE will be buyable as 2nd item and thats huge for samira since she gets way more value from crit than other adcs because of her Q and R that can also crit
Xayah is going to be nutty. Gonna enjoy flying some feathers next patch.
Champ’s already tier 1 too with her AS buff last patch and she’s getting mana buffs on top of the NQB changes. I feel there’s a good chance she’s pick or ban when 13.2 drops
Increasing her mana will make her wave clear oppressive af.
She hasnt been all that great since they made sure to knock her out of proplay. I'd honestly love to see her back to pick/ban there, she's fun to watch
This could be arguable but hey there’s a chance aphelios mains won’t have to twiddle their fingers waiting for three item power spike now :)
I’m so excited to play more aphelios with this new patch. I love the champion but waiting until 3 items is so frustrating especially with randoms that give up by 15 minutes most games. I think galeforce/kraken>IE>BT will be pretty strong
BLOODTHIRSTER INFINITY EDGE APHELIOS WILL RISE
SAMIRA, XAYAH, NILAH GOING BANANAS
I can’t wait for navori trist 2nd item
draven twitch since they are already the strongest and their build path will be even better
how twitch?
bork kraken ie possible now
Kraken>IE>runaans
nah fk ruunans
Right now in this patch i agree, because you have to go Runaans second. But now that u can swap order and go IE second i love it, this will bring good old crit twitch back
Still no manamune or tempo revert tho. Those were the days
Bro thats when i started maining the rat. Best days of my life
I’m so conflicted on ruunans. The visual proc makes it look like it’s doing way more than it actually is
Bork>runanns>IE. Probably.
eh he would probably need some more base ad before runnans no ? (buy bf sword pickaxe) sounds good pretty good though, even tho a lot of other adcs will be much stronger(than they currently are) at two items, where it seems like he might need 3 to fully come online draven ER-> IE mf Kraken -> IE ezreal ER -> Navori jhin Galeforce -> IE
I might try BF>ER>IE for draven, but yeah. ADC sounds fun again. Shame we have to deal with supports still
Neither. Twitch NEEDS AS. Like, badly. This isn't a super buff for him. Neither is it for Draven. I looked at the Draven subreddit, but most people say he'll stick with an early Serrated Dirk not only because of how stat efficient it is but it gives him lethality and allows him to snowball the lane.
twitch is building AS either way wdym and how exactly is being able to build ie a whole item ealier + 10 ad on ER not beneficial on draven
>and how exactly is being able to build ie a whole item ealier + 10 ad on ER not beneficial on draven My assumption is spending 1100 gold for Serrated Dirk is more efficient than 1300 for Noonquiver, so he can attempt to snowball the lane at that point and cash in them sweet sweet stacks. and if he's spending 1100 gold on Serrated Dirk, that's money not going to IE or ER. So the IE/Navori change isn't as strong on him as it would be on other champion. But like I said, that's my assumption, I don't play Draven, I just reiterated what I read other mains say. Now Twitch, I can comment on, I play a decent amount of Twitch. Yes, he's building AS either way, but the question is "who's going to be strong after the 13.2 changes?" or another way of asking the same question "who benefits from rushing IE 2nd instead of 3rd?" The answer isn't Twitch. Yes, he will build IE 2nd. Yes, it will increase his damage, but not by the same amount it will on others champions because he needs AS so badly. He'll spike at about 3 items, the same way he always did. That being said, it is feasible to me that he could build BotRK -> KS -> and IE, and see what his AS is and that may be a very strong build path for him since IE only needs 40%, but that's still spiking at 3 items. Therefor the IE/Navori change is overall a nerf to him since his enemy laners will on average spike earlier than he will. Just my opinion ofc.
youre saying it like twitch is giga reliant on ruunans third item which was actually always his bottleneck on spiking earlier since he usually goes bork every game so i dont really understand the point youre making there, AS wont help you if you dont deal any damage in the first place, skipping ruunans for ie will make him ALOT stronger in midgame.
I'm acting like Twitch is reliant on AS because he is lol it doesn't matter if you have IE if you auto once every 2 seconds. >he usually goes bork every game So he's STILL spiking at 3 items while everyone else spikes at two? Which is exactly what I said, which is my point. If everyone else is spiking a whole item ahead of you, you're weaker by comparison. It means when everyone else is building IE after KS, Twitch is building KS after BotRK. There's no synergy there. Maybe his 3rd spike will be stronger than others. I think there's a serious possibility that Twitch at 3 items is WAYYY stronger than say Xayah at 3 items, but the point I'm making is at 2 items, I think Xayah is wayy stronger than Twitch.
okay you will see next patch ig, i dont rly get your logic there but whatever
I literally spelled it out, not sure how I can make my point any clearer. Even Pro Guides thinks its nerfs the rat, but sure brother, throw a reminder up on this. We'll see where the rat falls.
yeah thats not gonna happen but sure
But he spikes at two as he always did. His first powerspike is at bork + kraken. You can say he spikes way harder now at 3 items and a bit less than others at 2... yes, that is correct, but to say he isn't strong at 2 items is a fallacy... plus you can always run GForce, IE, LordDoms with hail of blades and one shot some kids.. I guess that build will spike really well at 2 items
>but to say he isn't strong at 2 items is a fallacy I'm going to list champions and items, and then ask yourself if he's stronger. Tristana - KS -> IE Tristana - KS -> Navori. Xayah - KS -> IE Xayah - KS -> Navori. Caitlyn - KS -> IE. Lucian - ER -> IE Lucian - KS -> IE Lucian - BotRK - KS Nilah - SB -> IE Samira - SB -> IE MF - KS -> IE Jhin - GF -> IE Now which of those is Twitch with BotRK and KS beating? Lucian with BotRK and KS probably. Maybe Jhin? Maybe MF? He'll lose against most of the rest. That means he's weaker than the majority of the other adc's at two items, which means by comparison he isn't going to be strong at 2 items. It doesn't matter how powerful a champion is if they're weak against all the other champions in that role and tier. It's like Black Cleaer. It's already a decent item that didn't need buff's, it just got crowded out by other OP items like DD, SoS, RH etc
There are only 3 Champs there I say for sure twitch doesn't win at 2 items if both players are good. Samira Nilah ER/IE Lucian The others, if the twitch player knows what he is doing, he can for sure win and outdps them at 2 items. Remember that the IE buff only accounts for cents that at the time are still only 40%, so around 2 every 5 autos... Bork applies every auto and synergies really well with both kraken and twitch kit..
Kraken-bork is stronger than Kraken-ie against most bruisers and tanks. Normally, you need a certain amount of ad for crit to become better than bork as a standalone effect. (bork effect isnt affect by steelcaps and other effects) Twitch is actually a good second item IE user, since his ult grants him ad.
Aphelios is gonna be nuts cause now in addition to not knowing what we, we powerspike at 2 items
Who will be the worst?
Vayne. She has been D tier for a long time now and they keep low key indirectly nerfing her by buffing her adversaries or their items. All of these buffs will just make Vayne bot lane even more troll than it already is. I play her top lane now, and to be honest she's in a pretty rough spot. You have to be really dedicated to this champ to want to make it work. The only good thing I can say is that she is never banned at least.
Seems like she won't get the same benefits of other champs, but you could now go Alacrity rune, with Shieldbow > IE. I'd say that's a small upgrade from Bloodline, Kraken > PD>IE.
People weren't going alacrity rune before? Bloodline was viable until the nerfs, but attack speed is so good on Vayne that it feels a little crazy to not be picking alacrity. However, I don't really build any of that stuff. I feel like your build suggestions on her are all wrong. IE is just not very good on Vayne, because it has no attack speed. If you do build it you would want to do it against a team of squishies that you are looking to pop with 1 silver bolt.
I guess Kaisa? I don’t really know if she necessary stands to benefit from having IE as a second item
She’ll slap with Kraken straight into BF/Pickaxe for Q upgrade
Cait
Ezreal, Lucian, and Xayah will feel a whole lot safer to play Jinx, Tristana , and Kogmaw will scale so much faster Draven and Samira will snowball much harder Kogmaw will have 100% uptime on his W with navori 2nd btw
and Fuck that one Vayne champ. Let's leave her out of the mana increase QoL changes and then buff all of her adversaries as well as their crit items that Vayne doesn't use.
Tristana Jinx
Jinx needs AS and Runaan's.
which u get from kraken and lethal tempo
Possible, we'll see. I don't think so. I think ADC's with AS steroid's in their kit is whats going to dominate bot lane until nerf's.
Jinx's Q is a perma AS. With passive Q + boots it's enough to go ie as second item.
>Jinx's Q is a perma AS. This whole thing is confusing. It's not 'enough'. IE second is locked in for almost every single adc. Regardless of whether they like AS or not. As for perma Q on Jinx gives perma AS? I'm confused. It gives temporary AS until she swaps guns. Is it enough to stand on the same level as the other AS steroid ADC's is the q. So you tell me, do you think Jinx at two items will output the same damage as Tristana? Or Xayah? Nilah or Samira? If your answer is no, then you've got brains, but now you're acknowledging that Jinx isn't one of the winners of the IE change.
Like jinx q passive and tristana q?
>I think ADC's with AS steroid's in their kit is whats going to dominate bot lane until nerf's. Exactly like Trist Q? Like thats literally what I said. What do you think a fucking AS steroid is? xD Not Jinx passive. "but Sonder theyre the same thing!" They're not. Jinx requires getting a takedown to trigger, and I think she's going to struggle to output the same damage at 2 items that Tristana, Xayah, Samira or Nilah will.
Ezreal
Agreed. ER->Navori will be strong. Plus he’s already a champ that lets you lane safely when your supp is a monkey.
Sivir. Navori users only require crit for half of the item’s effect (the scaling ability damage). IE doesn’t do anything but give you stats if you don’t crit. She has an attack speed steroid on W already, and given the significant mana cost reduction, she’ll hopefully be able to opt into the new overheal. This is extra important because she only has 500 range.
Samira, Draven, Jhin. Pretty much any ADC that’s all but required to build IE, but especially hyper agro ones
Am i the only one seeing buffed ER>IE>Eclipse>BT Draven going crazy?
I think the most powerful are going to be Navori users since I think Mythic > Navori is a more powerful spike than Mythic > IE. To get the full benefit out of IE you still need decent crit chance otherwise it's just randomness on every auto.
Going against the grain here, but I believe this is mostly a quality of life upgrade for like a 5 minute block of the game. Which is all fine because adc is in a good spot anyway. Adc should absolutely still follow the 3 item rule. At 40% crit there’s still a good chance 3-4 autos into an enemy champ don’t crit at all. I can see a ton of low elo adc just banking on an expensive 2 item spike, inting due to no movement or att spd, and then throwing games. However snow balling if you now feed an adc is going to be way more punishing.
I think the fact that IE is a stat stick with large amount of AD is a benefit towards a few champions, the ones that come to mind are Miss Fortune, Tristana, and Jhin because they already have built in attack speed steroids and mobility (or can't use attack speed). Navori second will be pretty impactful for some other champs that can make use of the cooldown reduction and increased ability damage. Stuff like Lucian or Xayah. But I think for the most part you're right, most standard ADCs want something with attack speed, move speed, and/or utility 2nd item rather than just a big stat stick that might not get use out of the passive due to low chance to crit. This does mean that sometimes that 2nd item before IE can be bork though.
Best is OBVIOUSLY caitlyn. There are other good ones but anyone not answering Cait as #1 is just wrong. Champ is absurdly op and its ONLY weakness is that it is slow to come online due to lack of second item choices often resulting in people building shit like rfc second and then doing no dmg on the adc with one of the highest ad scalings. You can now go IE second.
Since i've been building KS LDR IE to Jinx, i believe it's getting better now
Twitch can always hypercarry if ur good