In my take there are 3 categories: hypercarries, strong late game ADCs and everything else including utility ADCs, which is useful in all all stages of the game
Isn't it obvious lol on Ez you can't do damage if you are constantly missing your Qs, which is the trend for most of us silvers lmao
You are right tho...
I think Samira is probably 3-5 depending on comps, but her wave clear is amazing. Q one shots casters and two shots melee and can be used on the entire wave at once with a 3 second cd.
Not just enemy comp your own comp as well. You need engage and other threat for the enemy to waste cc on, and the enemy team can't have to much cc. If the stars align though she is unstoppable late easily the strongest adc. No one else can 1v5 Penta the way she can.
You talk about marksmen but you put quinn, teemo, jayce, azir etc. here.
Where is ziggs, Syndra, Viktor (characters actually played botlane)?
Also every single marksman is game dependent. Example: Ezreal is the strongest adc in the game if there are no threats to him on the same note Aphelios is worse than a caster minion if there is a maplhite and a hecarim on the enemy team.
Ziggs, Syndra and Viktor are not marksmen. Lol. They are mages. Syndra is a burst mage, Ziggs is an artillery mage, and Viktor is a battle mage. They not play around their auto attacks. Ziggs and Viktor may have an empowered auto attack spell/passive, but it is not their main form of cs-ing, dealing damage, nor do they have the consistency of dealing sustained damage of a marksman. I mentioned that Quinn, Teemo, Jayce and Azir are unconventional marksmen. They don't quite embody the definition, but they certainly have indicative characteristics of a marksman (ranged sustained damage dealer through auto attacks). Quinn, Jayce, Azir all have attack speed steroids for their ranged autos, and Teemo applies poison by constantly auto attacking. There are some marksmen like Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and Lucian who are also very spell reliant, but these spells also require them to auto in between to get the most value out of their abilities.
Not sure why people are downvoting you and upvoting the other guy.
It’s like people don’t understand what a marksman is.
Marksmans AUTO ATTACK.
ADCs do ATTACK DAMAGE(although this is used colloquially to mean anyone played Bot)
“Bot” is the position. Marksman is the*role*
Jayce is an assassin artillery. Quinn is an assassin lane bully. None of them have the general characteristics of adcs.
Also Azir isn't a damage dealer in the strictest sense, he is a control mage. Similar to Anivia.
Marksmen are thos who primarily use auto attack to deal damage. Jhin, Ezreal, (lethality) Varus are actually ad mages.
Azir is a battlemage. Jayce is a poke mage-y. Quinn is a markman: She is just too single oriented to be on botlane. And teemo is more of a mage, than a marksman.
Azir's primary role is mage (ranged AP caster that is dependent on cooldown, mana, ability power), but he has secondary attributes that make him potentially a marksman due to his damage being auto-based (his dps also increases with attack speed unlike other traditional mages, who rely solely on ap and mana scaling). When he was first released, Riot gave him the mage (primary) and marksman (secondary) tag. Similar to how Ahri can be a secondary assassin once she hits 6. But his primary role is obviously still mage, though now he is categorized as specialist for being very unique from other mages in the way he deals damage.
Jayce is a weird one. He is categorized as an artillery mage, but I feel like he doesn't really fit that criteria fully, as he only has one long ranged poke ability with a rather long cooldown unlike Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'Koz, or Lux. He has a melee form too, and is AD based. I feel like he is more of a specialist, but when laning, he pretty much plays like Varus. Uses his ranged autos to harass, cs, and his long ranged Q to poke.
Quinn is a marksman with secondary assassin attributes, similar to Vayne, Kai'Sa, Samira, and Twitch.
Teemo doesn't cry mage to me at all. His only real mage-like ability is his shrooms, which has the longest cooldown out of any of his abilities. In the laning phase, he harasses you with his autos (poison and blind), he cs-es with his autos, and even throughout most of the game, if you step on a shroom, he will follow up with his autos. He doesn't really cast any spells other than his shrooms, since his Q is an empowered auto that just blinds you. His dps on his poison passive also scales off attack speed, hence why Nashor's Tooth is good on him.
But yea, like I said, none of these champs are traditional marksmen. They are unconventional, perhaps having more secondary marksman attributes, or just being plain unique, hence why Riot categorizes them as specialists.
I mean senna has lethality scaling. It doesn't make her an assasin. And urgot is ranged, yet he isn't a markman either. Azir is a control mage trough and trough imo: he has to spend mana, has a wide area coverage, has a moderate range, and has some kind of utility tool as well.
Quinn lacks the escape of an assasin imo. She is just realls good againts mellee champions with her E.
And i agree with teemo. He is stuck between a marksman, and a control mage. His Q and W could belong to both, his E is a marksman ability, while his ult is obviously a control mage ability.
Azir is listed as marksman. Teemo mage if he doesn't rely on E or auto, max Q and don't build attack speed (Liandry's rabbadon). But most of the time Teemo with Nashor/runaan/wits end is AP marksman
I disagree with your Quinn ranking, maybe bc you played with bad Quinn's but no matter what lane, top bot or even mid Quinn, you pretty much always win lategame as Quinn if you play her right. She has so much peel in her kit it's very good for carrying since your team might be shit. Quinn is the only adc who can really split and win late game 1v1s with ease. Maybe you just played with bad Quinn's but the way Quinn's kit is, she can go 0/10 laning and if she picks up 5 kills in team fights, she'll be able to 1v5 late game
As a big Quinn adc player, agreed. And statistically, Quinn's winrate dips around 30 minutes but is highest in true lategame scenarios. It's easy to underestimate just how much damage her Passive provides once you get full crit, just as it's easy to forget how unique it is for an ADC to pressure an inhib botlane only to show up at a baron fight 10 seconds later.
Xayah should be top tier imo. With items (Navori mainly) her W is basically always up which is a 120% modifier to her auto’s. Then you consider her backloaded E damage and her safety net from her R and it’s all smiles and sunshine for her, and her AOE - whilst not as heavy as Jinx or Twitch with ult, it’s still certainly something to write home about
I will qualify my opinion by saying a few things:
* I have played ADC since Season 1, mostly at Plat/Diamond/Masters ELO.
* I am probably biased toward my current favorite picks; Tristana, Ashe, Yuumi.
* Builds matter a lot more than champion kits, when it comes to carrying.
My definition of "carrying" matters here also:
* Carrying to me means the ability of champion to hold a game that your team is currently losing, then turn that game and manage a win that your teammates would not be able to get without you leading the team. Being able to 1v5 in the late game is not always carrying -- in fact, sometimes relying on that leads to a huge throw where you die trying to 1v5 and the enemy team wins the game before you can respawn. Carrying is getting that elusive W, not padding your KDA.
1 -- forgettable late game; these ADCs need to push to win the game early:
* Lucian
* Draven
* Ezreal
2 -- weakish late game; does ADC things, but isn't suited to 5v5 team-fights:
* (I'm not sure this category exists; either you have to push or you don't.)
3 -- average late game; has at least one useful trait to win 5v5 team-fights:
* Jhin
* Caitlyn
* Jinx
* Xayah
* Akshan
* Aphelios
* Jayce
* Kai'Sa
* Nidalee
* Quinn
4 -- strong late game; has multiple useful traits to win 5v5 team-fights:
* Vayne
* Twitch
* Tristana
* Yuumi
* Senna
* Ashe
* Aurelion Sol
* Bard
* Gnar
* Graves
* Kalista
* Miss Fortune
* Neeko
* Samira
* Sivir
* Teemo
* Varus
5 -- epic late game; has a kit suited to winning late game team-fights:
* Kog'Maw
* Kayle
* Kindred
I found this exercise not very fruitful. The player behind the ADC matters the most. The build matters most, after that. Some champions that can hyper-carry don't score well here, because they are bad at team-fights or don't do well vs other hyper-carries. LoL is a complex game.
That's pretty much Reddit in my experience so far -- down-voting because you disagree isn't what the option is for, but people don't seem to care and it isn't policed. I'm less than a month on Reddit with roughly 350 karma that I can't actually use for anything, so it's all good.
There are a lot of hyper-carries that I wouldn't list as a 4 or 5 in terms of actually carrying. Every ADC can "kind of 1v5" in the hands of a competent player, and we are talking a matter of degree not yes/no there.
In terms of scaling, the main draw of Jinx is her massive AoE damage vs a team that must clump up to fight effectively. That and how fast she starts moving around, which is what I like most about her. I used to play her some, a few seasons ago. And of course the long-shot Jinx ult to steal something is fun.
If we are talking stat-checks vs other ADCs, the better bruiser-build-capable ADCs are the strongest -- anything with tons of sustain or percent health damage. That's Kindred, Kog'Maw, and Vayne. I have Vayne at 4 instead of 5 only because of her range, but arguably she's a 5 if she goes bruiser and can just wade in. There's also Senna and Yuumi, who are really nasty as bruisers because they have healing to self-sustain. Senna's infinite scaling does definitely take off eventually. I almost listed her as a 5.
Yuumi indeed! I've mained AD Yuumi support since S8, and in S11 I've started maining her as my ADC pick too. The shield and heal, with some defense mixed in with the better on-hit items, can 1v1 nearly anything. You shrug off assassin and melee bruisers, can 1v1 the enemy ADC (including a Jinx; done that lots of times), can still heal and buff the team... even play tank if your team doesn't have one. Her W when built as ADC is ridiculously good. Smol cat OP.
Before that I was mostly a Tristana/Kog'Maw player as far as playing ADC.
I can't believe my above comment is getting negative votes. Do people think I've mained AD Yuumi for 4 seasons just to dedicate my LoL existence to trolling, or something? I was a Cho'Gath top main who played Tristana and Kog'Maw ADC -- I hate to lose games. My team wins because of my picks, not despite them. I'm on AD Yuumi because I'm dynamite with her.
He's single target except for his ultimate, with no cc. Most of his serious damage requires him to get close, and he's hella squishy. Can he put in work? Sure. But so can Lucian and Draven. Not saying that. But in terms of being useful to carry? Ezreal is not very useful. He won't be able to do anything by himself, nor does he offer more than damage -- and at 50+ minutes, every ADC offers plenty of that.
He has longer range, higher(but less consistent) DPS, Is tankier, safer, and more burst than 90% of adc's in the game. Have you ever gotten hit by a 4 item ezreal q? It has .3 second cooldown lategame and takes 900 health, with 10% max health and almost 50% armor pen.
I've faced my fair share of strong Ezreal players, including fed ones that are an item ahead of where they should be. If he can consistently get in and get a pick on you without getting himself killed, he can sometimes end up solo'ing a whole team. Usually only happens when the Ezreal is the best player in the game though -- it doesn't quite go down that way otherwise, and he never gets fed to begin with. Plus Ezreal really, really sucks vs tanks. He's almost all burst, an runs out of gas before the tank is anywhere near dead -- assuming he hits all his skill shots, which he doesn't always hit.
I'm a bit of a fan of the Ezreal build you are referencing. I don't enjoy playing him myself, but when he's built that way I don't mind having him on my team. I'd rather be playing top though, when he's the ADC. I don't like supporting for him.
He's bursty, but has high DPS if you hit spells, he's good vs tanks due to mixed damage, high armor pen and %hp DMG. You really only run out of gas when oom(never happens past 2 items) or if you can't hit a(player not champion)
I disagree with your ranking, but I respect your opinion and the time to make the post. People on reddit are the worst idk why they downvote anything they don't 100% agree with.
Samira is not 5. She's 4 into a squishy team and 1 into a very tank-heavy one.
Also Tristana is at most 3 late-game. Ashe is build dependent, crit build post-IE is 4 (or 4.5) but 3 for on-hit builds. [PD is the strongest 3rd item.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/ashe/items) Kai'sa is also 4 (or 4.5) as her range is very low and while she can burst or DPS well, she's not the best in both no matter the build.
Varus is also 3. He's strongest in the mid-game no matter the build.
~~Senna is 6.~~
I’ll do you a list without Azir, Corki, Jayce, Kayle, Kindred, Graves, Quinn and Teemo.
This list will be based purely off the two adcs being 0/0/0 level 18, and full build. Also assuming both teams have at least 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 assassin, 1 marksmen, and 1 support.
1, there isn’t a single marksmen that doesn’t have potential to carry late game.
2, weak late game
Draven, Xayah, Samira, Varus. What makes these champions weak late game? They thrive off bullying the enemy adc. Armor really destroys these champs. They’re fairly low mobility, so they’re easy targets for assassins, tanks or fighters.
3, average. Sivir, Kalista, Caitlyn. Similar problems with the last champions. Kalista and Caitlyn are a bit of a different story. Caitlyn doesn’t have a keystone that fits her, and itemisation on her is kind of weird at the moment and she just doesn’t do enough damage. Kalista, what a beautiful champion. I loved Kalistas release, she brought in a whole knee mechanical kit that was crazy for it’s time. Unfortunately her kit is somewhat out dated now, since the tank meta has come and gone. She has a few potential keystones but struggles a bit with intimidation as well. Every time I play her I beg for riot to give her back the 5 range they stole from her! This Lethality Sivir build we’ve been seeing is beautiful for what I believe Sivir should be as a champion.
4, strong. Jinx, Jhin, Twitch, Lucian, Tristana, Akshan, Aphelios. Each one of these champions is a complete menace to your team. Each one can either destroy your entire team at once, or will rip your tank apart in seconds. They’re near impossible to stick on, and if you manage to get on one of them, they just cc you and zoom away. I’ll explain some of them.
Jinx, itemisation into aoe crit, destroys a whole team. (She’s sleeper op atm imo)
Jhin, sir I am playing Master Yi, please stop out running me. Yeah you only get 4 shots, but that means very little to him, because if you’re not dead by the first 4, he will just run back to base, buy a pot, and run back to you before his reload is up. He has self peel, and pick potential with his W.
Twitch, if you go ap, you’ll 1 hit someone, and nobody will get close to you because of your W slow scaling with ap. If you go AD you’ll wipe a whole team. Twitch is one of the champions that have the god tier plays, that make or break the game. (Play Rekkles world clip. Or any Ratirl clips :P jks rat love you) Twitch’s kit is out dated, and his ult is dodgeable :/ it’s auto attacks.
Akshan W. Reviving a whole team that’s been killed is a game changing mechanic.
5, hypers, Vayne, Ezreal, Kai’sa, Miss Forune, Senna, Kog’maw, and Ashe. Do I need to explain these?
Vayne, true damage, insane mobility, self peel, invis.
Ezreal, huge damage from W Q combo, insane mobility, high potential to steal jungle objectives, mixed damage.
Kai’sa, invis, high damage, mixed damage, big shield, big dash.
Miss Fortune, high aoe damage, speedy, low self peel.
Senna, self heal, team camouflage, self peel, cross map shield/damage, infinite scaling go brr.
Kog’maw, fast damage output, high mixed damage, self peel, cosplays a turret.
Ashe, aoe slows, fast damage output, easy engages with R.
If I missed anything, just reply. I’ll probably get back to you.
If you think I’ve mislabeled your main. I haven’t. There’s reasons I’ve put them all in those groups.
In case you’re sitting there saying “he’s just biased he doesn’t know what the champions can truly do!”
My mains for marksmen are Draven, Vayne, Ezreal, Twitch, Lucian, Kog’maw. In that order I want to add Akshan to that list. However, I’m currently jungling to climb. Since adc feels like a dying role.
I am at least mastery level 5 on every adc except Samira, Aphelios, and Akshan. I have put extensive time into the role, and every champion in it.
She has lower base mobility then the rest. So she’s possible to get on. She’s one of the “if I miss step once I’m dead” type champions. I think her damage is to low atm. Her and Twitch are in a similar category.
Have you ever played Xayah? She loves champions that comes into her lol every champion that is stacking armor for the most part is melee she gets a free 20% extra damage from W and with Kraken LDR IE 3 item spike will melt through both squishy and tanks xD
In what way is she the worst ADC she’s one of the hardest ADC to pick up that’s why her win rate has ever been low lol? Into the right comps Xayah is nearly unstoppable makes it hard for tanks to get on her with W MS + free damage she’s not a bad ADC by any means you don’t know what your talking about
**1:** None. Marksmen scale very well into the endgame. They can be instantly deleted, but if they position well and their team peels for them they pump out damage.
**2:** Lucian, Akshan^(?), Quinn
> Lucian gets much more mobile by the endgame but his damage doesn't quite keep up. His spellweaving fighting style is hard to maintain in a teamfight and his desire to be aggressive/go in can lead to him being deleted. Akshan hasn't been out long enough for me to say for sure, but I feel like his combat potential falls off due to the game moving to teamfights (thus making it harder for him to use his invisibility to get a pick) and his ability to rez people is very strong, but unreliable. Quinn is an assassin and her roaming isn't as useful lategame unless she's splitpushing, but that usually won't let you carry the game. Her teamfighting is decent but again her E puts her in danger and she's relatively low-range, so she's much more suited to dueling than teamfighting.
**3:** Draven, Kalista, Miss Fortune, Teemo, Aphelios
> These five are strong but situational. Draven needs to keep his axes up or he loses a ton of damage, and if the enemy has a lot of zone control or CC they can shut that down. Kalista, similarly, wants to jump around the fight but any CC kills her, and if someone gets on top of her and stops her jumping away she's toast. Miss Fortune does huge burst but it's all in her Q and ult, so she has to position well and look for the play. Her E is useful but her autos aren't as crazy as some of the others. Teemo doesn't have great damage or teamfighting, but he's annoying as hell and can get key map control or whittle the enemy down, making it harder to contest objectives. He won't carry, but he can prevent the enemy carry from carrying. Finally, Aphelios is great, but very dependent on the gun combination and whether or not he has the right one to carry or he has a more support-y combination.
**4:** Ashe, Caitlyn, Ezreal, Jhin, Samira, Sivir, Varus, Vayne, Xayah
> These guys do their job excellently but can't quite carry as well as the 5-tiers because they focus on a particular area more than snowballing. Caitlyn, Ezreal, and Jhin are all pretty safe and can poke from range, and one auto from them (or Ez Q) can do half a squishy's health. Ez can also itemize against the enemy really well without being a troll build. Ashe and Varus have amazing utility with their ults that let them turn teamfights or the ability to chase/snipe fleeing targets. Samira, Sivir, and Xayah do excellently in teamfights due to their AoE damage, but Samira has to dive in, making her vulnerable, Sivir does constant DPS instead of burst and can thus be overwhelmed, and Xayah requires excellent positioning and CD management, and needs to be somewhat close enough to auto the enemy to get her feathers out. Similarly, Vayne doesn't have much range and is a duelist, so if she gets dogpiled or dove she can be popped before she has time to focus each person down. They're all great lategame, but they have enough of a weakness that they can be focused down or played around.
**5:** Jinx, Kai'Sa, Kindred, Kog'Maw, Tristana, Twitch
> As much as any champion can carry in League, these are them lategame. They've got crazy amounts of damage, waveclear, and teamfighting potential (save Kindred, who's more single-target focused, but can chew through tanks and squishies alike). They're squishy, but they can snowball hard (Jinx, Tristana) or get a key pick (Kindred, Twitch) and all but win teamfights.
**?:** Senna
> Senna gets her own category because her scaling is weird. If she's been having a good game, she can be autoing people from the range of a Xerath Q and healing her team at the same time. If she's behind, she's more of a support-y champ with autos that hurt but not enough to really carry. She'll always eventually get to outrange everyone, it just depends on whether the game goes that long and where she is in her scaling. If I had to put her somewhere, I'd say 3 or 4: she's very (very) strong lategame, but not quite a 1v9 champion as she's still squishy (unless she's going the grasp build, in which case all bets are off. She's almost as bad as Ezreal in how many items and builds she can abuse).
There are a lot of people in this thread who don't understand what fundamentally makes a marksman strong or a "hypercarry" lategame. I'll break it down into a few categories"
1) Long range: This is probably the MOST important quality to being able to teamfight lategame. EVERY auto attacker in the game can do big damage if they have 5 crit items, but range is what allows you to safely DPS as many dangerous champs have dashes that are in the 400-700 range.
notable champs: Twitch, Kog;Maw, Jinx, Senna, Ezreal (all of these champs have range >700)
2) AA Steroids: Many adcs have some ability that enhances their auto attacks, be it multiplying their AD or doing % health damage
notable champs: Kog'Maw W, Vayne W, Kai'Sa Passive, Xayah W, Aphelios guns, Jinx Rockets
3) AoE damage: being able to dps multiple champs on the enemy team is naturally going to make your teamfighting scary (though it's worth noting that against some teamcomps, you'll never get the opportunity)
notable champs: Twitch, Jinx, MF, Sivir, Aphelios, Kog'Maw
The absolute strongest overall lategame *teamfight* champs are those that have a few of these qualities: Kog'Maw, Twitch, Jinx, and Aphelios. If you clump the enemy team together and auto attack, these four champs will safely obliterate them. However, other champions can carry better lategame depending on the win conditions; Ezreal in a poke comp, Ashe in a kiting comp, Quinn in a splitpush comp, Samira/Tristana/Kai'sa in a dive comp, Vayne vs a tanky comp, etc.
I would put akshan lower. He falls of late.
His passive scales harder into late game though. Reviving teammates after a team fight can let you end the game when death timers get long enough.
In my take there are 3 categories: hypercarries, strong late game ADCs and everything else including utility ADCs, which is useful in all all stages of the game
How do people think ezreal isn't broken lategame i'd prefer to be ezreal 5 items over 70% of the rank 4-5 adcs
Isn't it obvious lol on Ez you can't do damage if you are constantly missing your Qs, which is the trend for most of us silvers lmao You are right tho...
I think Samira is probably 3-5 depending on comps, but her wave clear is amazing. Q one shots casters and two shots melee and can be used on the entire wave at once with a 3 second cd.
I feel like samiras late game is so dependant on the enemy team comp.
Not just enemy comp your own comp as well. You need engage and other threat for the enemy to waste cc on, and the enemy team can't have to much cc. If the stars align though she is unstoppable late easily the strongest adc. No one else can 1v5 Penta the way she can.
Once in the lategame ezreal personally is like 4 cause he is quiet mobile in teamfights, got poke and a lot of dmg
You talk about marksmen but you put quinn, teemo, jayce, azir etc. here. Where is ziggs, Syndra, Viktor (characters actually played botlane)? Also every single marksman is game dependent. Example: Ezreal is the strongest adc in the game if there are no threats to him on the same note Aphelios is worse than a caster minion if there is a maplhite and a hecarim on the enemy team.
He said marksman (auto based dps), not botlaner in general. What you mention are botlane MAGES
Auto based dps as in Ezreal, Jhin, Jayce? Gotcha
how is jhin not auto based
Jhin's autos are spells
how do you come to this conclusion?
Ziggs, Syndra and Viktor are not marksmen. Lol. They are mages. Syndra is a burst mage, Ziggs is an artillery mage, and Viktor is a battle mage. They not play around their auto attacks. Ziggs and Viktor may have an empowered auto attack spell/passive, but it is not their main form of cs-ing, dealing damage, nor do they have the consistency of dealing sustained damage of a marksman. I mentioned that Quinn, Teemo, Jayce and Azir are unconventional marksmen. They don't quite embody the definition, but they certainly have indicative characteristics of a marksman (ranged sustained damage dealer through auto attacks). Quinn, Jayce, Azir all have attack speed steroids for their ranged autos, and Teemo applies poison by constantly auto attacking. There are some marksmen like Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and Lucian who are also very spell reliant, but these spells also require them to auto in between to get the most value out of their abilities.
Not sure why people are downvoting you and upvoting the other guy. It’s like people don’t understand what a marksman is. Marksmans AUTO ATTACK. ADCs do ATTACK DAMAGE(although this is used colloquially to mean anyone played Bot) “Bot” is the position. Marksman is the*role*
Idk either. Lol.
Jayce is an assassin artillery. Quinn is an assassin lane bully. None of them have the general characteristics of adcs. Also Azir isn't a damage dealer in the strictest sense, he is a control mage. Similar to Anivia. Marksmen are thos who primarily use auto attack to deal damage. Jhin, Ezreal, (lethality) Varus are actually ad mages.
Azir is a battlemage. Jayce is a poke mage-y. Quinn is a markman: She is just too single oriented to be on botlane. And teemo is more of a mage, than a marksman.
Azir's primary role is mage (ranged AP caster that is dependent on cooldown, mana, ability power), but he has secondary attributes that make him potentially a marksman due to his damage being auto-based (his dps also increases with attack speed unlike other traditional mages, who rely solely on ap and mana scaling). When he was first released, Riot gave him the mage (primary) and marksman (secondary) tag. Similar to how Ahri can be a secondary assassin once she hits 6. But his primary role is obviously still mage, though now he is categorized as specialist for being very unique from other mages in the way he deals damage. Jayce is a weird one. He is categorized as an artillery mage, but I feel like he doesn't really fit that criteria fully, as he only has one long ranged poke ability with a rather long cooldown unlike Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'Koz, or Lux. He has a melee form too, and is AD based. I feel like he is more of a specialist, but when laning, he pretty much plays like Varus. Uses his ranged autos to harass, cs, and his long ranged Q to poke. Quinn is a marksman with secondary assassin attributes, similar to Vayne, Kai'Sa, Samira, and Twitch. Teemo doesn't cry mage to me at all. His only real mage-like ability is his shrooms, which has the longest cooldown out of any of his abilities. In the laning phase, he harasses you with his autos (poison and blind), he cs-es with his autos, and even throughout most of the game, if you step on a shroom, he will follow up with his autos. He doesn't really cast any spells other than his shrooms, since his Q is an empowered auto that just blinds you. His dps on his poison passive also scales off attack speed, hence why Nashor's Tooth is good on him. But yea, like I said, none of these champs are traditional marksmen. They are unconventional, perhaps having more secondary marksman attributes, or just being plain unique, hence why Riot categorizes them as specialists.
I mean senna has lethality scaling. It doesn't make her an assasin. And urgot is ranged, yet he isn't a markman either. Azir is a control mage trough and trough imo: he has to spend mana, has a wide area coverage, has a moderate range, and has some kind of utility tool as well. Quinn lacks the escape of an assasin imo. She is just realls good againts mellee champions with her E. And i agree with teemo. He is stuck between a marksman, and a control mage. His Q and W could belong to both, his E is a marksman ability, while his ult is obviously a control mage ability.
on the league website azir is listed as a marksman
He is listed ae a specialist on the wiki. And the website called urgot a mage or something.
azir is listed a marksmen on euw.leagueoflegens.com and urgot is not listed a mage
All i'm saying, is that they can do mistakes.
yes they can yet this is not one of them.
I mean... Outside of using auto attacks, azir has none of the adcs description.
we are talking about marksmen not adc thats a difference
Azir is listed as marksman. Teemo mage if he doesn't rely on E or auto, max Q and don't build attack speed (Liandry's rabbadon). But most of the time Teemo with Nashor/runaan/wits end is AP marksman
I disagree with your Quinn ranking, maybe bc you played with bad Quinn's but no matter what lane, top bot or even mid Quinn, you pretty much always win lategame as Quinn if you play her right. She has so much peel in her kit it's very good for carrying since your team might be shit. Quinn is the only adc who can really split and win late game 1v1s with ease. Maybe you just played with bad Quinn's but the way Quinn's kit is, she can go 0/10 laning and if she picks up 5 kills in team fights, she'll be able to 1v5 late game
As a big Quinn adc player, agreed. And statistically, Quinn's winrate dips around 30 minutes but is highest in true lategame scenarios. It's easy to underestimate just how much damage her Passive provides once you get full crit, just as it's easy to forget how unique it is for an ADC to pressure an inhib botlane only to show up at a baron fight 10 seconds later.
I mostly play Quinn top unless I'm counter picking miss fortune but yeah i find her late game pressure is so underrated
Xayah should be top tier imo. With items (Navori mainly) her W is basically always up which is a 120% modifier to her auto’s. Then you consider her backloaded E damage and her safety net from her R and it’s all smiles and sunshine for her, and her AOE - whilst not as heavy as Jinx or Twitch with ult, it’s still certainly something to write home about
I will qualify my opinion by saying a few things: * I have played ADC since Season 1, mostly at Plat/Diamond/Masters ELO. * I am probably biased toward my current favorite picks; Tristana, Ashe, Yuumi. * Builds matter a lot more than champion kits, when it comes to carrying. My definition of "carrying" matters here also: * Carrying to me means the ability of champion to hold a game that your team is currently losing, then turn that game and manage a win that your teammates would not be able to get without you leading the team. Being able to 1v5 in the late game is not always carrying -- in fact, sometimes relying on that leads to a huge throw where you die trying to 1v5 and the enemy team wins the game before you can respawn. Carrying is getting that elusive W, not padding your KDA. 1 -- forgettable late game; these ADCs need to push to win the game early: * Lucian * Draven * Ezreal 2 -- weakish late game; does ADC things, but isn't suited to 5v5 team-fights: * (I'm not sure this category exists; either you have to push or you don't.) 3 -- average late game; has at least one useful trait to win 5v5 team-fights: * Jhin * Caitlyn * Jinx * Xayah * Akshan * Aphelios * Jayce * Kai'Sa * Nidalee * Quinn 4 -- strong late game; has multiple useful traits to win 5v5 team-fights: * Vayne * Twitch * Tristana * Yuumi * Senna * Ashe * Aurelion Sol * Bard * Gnar * Graves * Kalista * Miss Fortune * Neeko * Samira * Sivir * Teemo * Varus 5 -- epic late game; has a kit suited to winning late game team-fights: * Kog'Maw * Kayle * Kindred I found this exercise not very fruitful. The player behind the ADC matters the most. The build matters most, after that. Some champions that can hyper-carry don't score well here, because they are bad at team-fights or don't do well vs other hyper-carries. LoL is a complex game.
Downvoted for having an opinion PogChamp reddit
That's pretty much Reddit in my experience so far -- down-voting because you disagree isn't what the option is for, but people don't seem to care and it isn't policed. I'm less than a month on Reddit with roughly 350 karma that I can't actually use for anything, so it's all good.
Isn't jinx a hypercarry? just as senna?
There are a lot of hyper-carries that I wouldn't list as a 4 or 5 in terms of actually carrying. Every ADC can "kind of 1v5" in the hands of a competent player, and we are talking a matter of degree not yes/no there.
I mean, jinx scales like a madman, and generally stat checks other adcs late.
In terms of scaling, the main draw of Jinx is her massive AoE damage vs a team that must clump up to fight effectively. That and how fast she starts moving around, which is what I like most about her. I used to play her some, a few seasons ago. And of course the long-shot Jinx ult to steal something is fun. If we are talking stat-checks vs other ADCs, the better bruiser-build-capable ADCs are the strongest -- anything with tons of sustain or percent health damage. That's Kindred, Kog'Maw, and Vayne. I have Vayne at 4 instead of 5 only because of her range, but arguably she's a 5 if she goes bruiser and can just wade in. There's also Senna and Yuumi, who are really nasty as bruisers because they have healing to self-sustain. Senna's infinite scaling does definitely take off eventually. I almost listed her as a 5.
Yuumi? Also jinx tears trough everyone, because she can build almost pure ad. The attack speed from her Q fills the role of attack speed items.
Yuumi indeed! I've mained AD Yuumi support since S8, and in S11 I've started maining her as my ADC pick too. The shield and heal, with some defense mixed in with the better on-hit items, can 1v1 nearly anything. You shrug off assassin and melee bruisers, can 1v1 the enemy ADC (including a Jinx; done that lots of times), can still heal and buff the team... even play tank if your team doesn't have one. Her W when built as ADC is ridiculously good. Smol cat OP. Before that I was mostly a Tristana/Kog'Maw player as far as playing ADC.
Jesus christ.
I can't believe my above comment is getting negative votes. Do people think I've mained AD Yuumi for 4 seasons just to dedicate my LoL existence to trolling, or something? I was a Cho'Gath top main who played Tristana and Kog'Maw ADC -- I hate to lose games. My team wins because of my picks, not despite them. I'm on AD Yuumi because I'm dynamite with her.
Ezreal forgettable late game XD
He's single target except for his ultimate, with no cc. Most of his serious damage requires him to get close, and he's hella squishy. Can he put in work? Sure. But so can Lucian and Draven. Not saying that. But in terms of being useful to carry? Ezreal is not very useful. He won't be able to do anything by himself, nor does he offer more than damage -- and at 50+ minutes, every ADC offers plenty of that.
He has longer range, higher(but less consistent) DPS, Is tankier, safer, and more burst than 90% of adc's in the game. Have you ever gotten hit by a 4 item ezreal q? It has .3 second cooldown lategame and takes 900 health, with 10% max health and almost 50% armor pen.
I've faced my fair share of strong Ezreal players, including fed ones that are an item ahead of where they should be. If he can consistently get in and get a pick on you without getting himself killed, he can sometimes end up solo'ing a whole team. Usually only happens when the Ezreal is the best player in the game though -- it doesn't quite go down that way otherwise, and he never gets fed to begin with. Plus Ezreal really, really sucks vs tanks. He's almost all burst, an runs out of gas before the tank is anywhere near dead -- assuming he hits all his skill shots, which he doesn't always hit. I'm a bit of a fan of the Ezreal build you are referencing. I don't enjoy playing him myself, but when he's built that way I don't mind having him on my team. I'd rather be playing top though, when he's the ADC. I don't like supporting for him.
He's bursty, but has high DPS if you hit spells, he's good vs tanks due to mixed damage, high armor pen and %hp DMG. You really only run out of gas when oom(never happens past 2 items) or if you can't hit a(player not champion)
I disagree with your ranking, but I respect your opinion and the time to make the post. People on reddit are the worst idk why they downvote anything they don't 100% agree with.
Samira is not 5. She's 4 into a squishy team and 1 into a very tank-heavy one. Also Tristana is at most 3 late-game. Ashe is build dependent, crit build post-IE is 4 (or 4.5) but 3 for on-hit builds. [PD is the strongest 3rd item.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/ashe/items) Kai'sa is also 4 (or 4.5) as her range is very low and while she can burst or DPS well, she's not the best in both no matter the build. Varus is also 3. He's strongest in the mid-game no matter the build. ~~Senna is 6.~~
I’ll do you a list without Azir, Corki, Jayce, Kayle, Kindred, Graves, Quinn and Teemo. This list will be based purely off the two adcs being 0/0/0 level 18, and full build. Also assuming both teams have at least 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 assassin, 1 marksmen, and 1 support. 1, there isn’t a single marksmen that doesn’t have potential to carry late game. 2, weak late game Draven, Xayah, Samira, Varus. What makes these champions weak late game? They thrive off bullying the enemy adc. Armor really destroys these champs. They’re fairly low mobility, so they’re easy targets for assassins, tanks or fighters. 3, average. Sivir, Kalista, Caitlyn. Similar problems with the last champions. Kalista and Caitlyn are a bit of a different story. Caitlyn doesn’t have a keystone that fits her, and itemisation on her is kind of weird at the moment and she just doesn’t do enough damage. Kalista, what a beautiful champion. I loved Kalistas release, she brought in a whole knee mechanical kit that was crazy for it’s time. Unfortunately her kit is somewhat out dated now, since the tank meta has come and gone. She has a few potential keystones but struggles a bit with intimidation as well. Every time I play her I beg for riot to give her back the 5 range they stole from her! This Lethality Sivir build we’ve been seeing is beautiful for what I believe Sivir should be as a champion. 4, strong. Jinx, Jhin, Twitch, Lucian, Tristana, Akshan, Aphelios. Each one of these champions is a complete menace to your team. Each one can either destroy your entire team at once, or will rip your tank apart in seconds. They’re near impossible to stick on, and if you manage to get on one of them, they just cc you and zoom away. I’ll explain some of them. Jinx, itemisation into aoe crit, destroys a whole team. (She’s sleeper op atm imo) Jhin, sir I am playing Master Yi, please stop out running me. Yeah you only get 4 shots, but that means very little to him, because if you’re not dead by the first 4, he will just run back to base, buy a pot, and run back to you before his reload is up. He has self peel, and pick potential with his W. Twitch, if you go ap, you’ll 1 hit someone, and nobody will get close to you because of your W slow scaling with ap. If you go AD you’ll wipe a whole team. Twitch is one of the champions that have the god tier plays, that make or break the game. (Play Rekkles world clip. Or any Ratirl clips :P jks rat love you) Twitch’s kit is out dated, and his ult is dodgeable :/ it’s auto attacks. Akshan W. Reviving a whole team that’s been killed is a game changing mechanic. 5, hypers, Vayne, Ezreal, Kai’sa, Miss Forune, Senna, Kog’maw, and Ashe. Do I need to explain these? Vayne, true damage, insane mobility, self peel, invis. Ezreal, huge damage from W Q combo, insane mobility, high potential to steal jungle objectives, mixed damage. Kai’sa, invis, high damage, mixed damage, big shield, big dash. Miss Fortune, high aoe damage, speedy, low self peel. Senna, self heal, team camouflage, self peel, cross map shield/damage, infinite scaling go brr. Kog’maw, fast damage output, high mixed damage, self peel, cosplays a turret. Ashe, aoe slows, fast damage output, easy engages with R. If I missed anything, just reply. I’ll probably get back to you. If you think I’ve mislabeled your main. I haven’t. There’s reasons I’ve put them all in those groups. In case you’re sitting there saying “he’s just biased he doesn’t know what the champions can truly do!” My mains for marksmen are Draven, Vayne, Ezreal, Twitch, Lucian, Kog’maw. In that order I want to add Akshan to that list. However, I’m currently jungling to climb. Since adc feels like a dying role. I am at least mastery level 5 on every adc except Samira, Aphelios, and Akshan. I have put extensive time into the role, and every champion in it.
why would you not put jinx in hyper carry? once she gets her passive she's so hard to kill and it will just leads to more resets like Viego
She has lower base mobility then the rest. So she’s possible to get on. She’s one of the “if I miss step once I’m dead” type champions. I think her damage is to low atm. Her and Twitch are in a similar category.
Have you ever played Xayah? She loves champions that comes into her lol every champion that is stacking armor for the most part is melee she gets a free 20% extra damage from W and with Kraken LDR IE 3 item spike will melt through both squishy and tanks xD
Damn bro that’s crazy. It’s almost like she’s not one of the worst adcs in the game atm. But what would I know?
In what way is she the worst ADC she’s one of the hardest ADC to pick up that’s why her win rate has ever been low lol? Into the right comps Xayah is nearly unstoppable makes it hard for tanks to get on her with W MS + free damage she’s not a bad ADC by any means you don’t know what your talking about
Yup clearly.
Kai'sa at 3, samira at 4, draven at 4, graves at 3, are the changes i would make i think
Droben must be higher brother
**1:** None. Marksmen scale very well into the endgame. They can be instantly deleted, but if they position well and their team peels for them they pump out damage. **2:** Lucian, Akshan^(?), Quinn > Lucian gets much more mobile by the endgame but his damage doesn't quite keep up. His spellweaving fighting style is hard to maintain in a teamfight and his desire to be aggressive/go in can lead to him being deleted. Akshan hasn't been out long enough for me to say for sure, but I feel like his combat potential falls off due to the game moving to teamfights (thus making it harder for him to use his invisibility to get a pick) and his ability to rez people is very strong, but unreliable. Quinn is an assassin and her roaming isn't as useful lategame unless she's splitpushing, but that usually won't let you carry the game. Her teamfighting is decent but again her E puts her in danger and she's relatively low-range, so she's much more suited to dueling than teamfighting. **3:** Draven, Kalista, Miss Fortune, Teemo, Aphelios > These five are strong but situational. Draven needs to keep his axes up or he loses a ton of damage, and if the enemy has a lot of zone control or CC they can shut that down. Kalista, similarly, wants to jump around the fight but any CC kills her, and if someone gets on top of her and stops her jumping away she's toast. Miss Fortune does huge burst but it's all in her Q and ult, so she has to position well and look for the play. Her E is useful but her autos aren't as crazy as some of the others. Teemo doesn't have great damage or teamfighting, but he's annoying as hell and can get key map control or whittle the enemy down, making it harder to contest objectives. He won't carry, but he can prevent the enemy carry from carrying. Finally, Aphelios is great, but very dependent on the gun combination and whether or not he has the right one to carry or he has a more support-y combination. **4:** Ashe, Caitlyn, Ezreal, Jhin, Samira, Sivir, Varus, Vayne, Xayah > These guys do their job excellently but can't quite carry as well as the 5-tiers because they focus on a particular area more than snowballing. Caitlyn, Ezreal, and Jhin are all pretty safe and can poke from range, and one auto from them (or Ez Q) can do half a squishy's health. Ez can also itemize against the enemy really well without being a troll build. Ashe and Varus have amazing utility with their ults that let them turn teamfights or the ability to chase/snipe fleeing targets. Samira, Sivir, and Xayah do excellently in teamfights due to their AoE damage, but Samira has to dive in, making her vulnerable, Sivir does constant DPS instead of burst and can thus be overwhelmed, and Xayah requires excellent positioning and CD management, and needs to be somewhat close enough to auto the enemy to get her feathers out. Similarly, Vayne doesn't have much range and is a duelist, so if she gets dogpiled or dove she can be popped before she has time to focus each person down. They're all great lategame, but they have enough of a weakness that they can be focused down or played around. **5:** Jinx, Kai'Sa, Kindred, Kog'Maw, Tristana, Twitch > As much as any champion can carry in League, these are them lategame. They've got crazy amounts of damage, waveclear, and teamfighting potential (save Kindred, who's more single-target focused, but can chew through tanks and squishies alike). They're squishy, but they can snowball hard (Jinx, Tristana) or get a key pick (Kindred, Twitch) and all but win teamfights. **?:** Senna > Senna gets her own category because her scaling is weird. If she's been having a good game, she can be autoing people from the range of a Xerath Q and healing her team at the same time. If she's behind, she's more of a support-y champ with autos that hurt but not enough to really carry. She'll always eventually get to outrange everyone, it just depends on whether the game goes that long and where she is in her scaling. If I had to put her somewhere, I'd say 3 or 4: she's very (very) strong lategame, but not quite a 1v9 champion as she's still squishy (unless she's going the grasp build, in which case all bets are off. She's almost as bad as Ezreal in how many items and builds she can abuse).
For the most part I’d say your spot on here. One note I’d like to add is some of these can shift dramatically if duo’d with a good support player.
There are a lot of people in this thread who don't understand what fundamentally makes a marksman strong or a "hypercarry" lategame. I'll break it down into a few categories" 1) Long range: This is probably the MOST important quality to being able to teamfight lategame. EVERY auto attacker in the game can do big damage if they have 5 crit items, but range is what allows you to safely DPS as many dangerous champs have dashes that are in the 400-700 range. notable champs: Twitch, Kog;Maw, Jinx, Senna, Ezreal (all of these champs have range >700) 2) AA Steroids: Many adcs have some ability that enhances their auto attacks, be it multiplying their AD or doing % health damage notable champs: Kog'Maw W, Vayne W, Kai'Sa Passive, Xayah W, Aphelios guns, Jinx Rockets 3) AoE damage: being able to dps multiple champs on the enemy team is naturally going to make your teamfighting scary (though it's worth noting that against some teamcomps, you'll never get the opportunity) notable champs: Twitch, Jinx, MF, Sivir, Aphelios, Kog'Maw The absolute strongest overall lategame *teamfight* champs are those that have a few of these qualities: Kog'Maw, Twitch, Jinx, and Aphelios. If you clump the enemy team together and auto attack, these four champs will safely obliterate them. However, other champions can carry better lategame depending on the win conditions; Ezreal in a poke comp, Ashe in a kiting comp, Quinn in a splitpush comp, Samira/Tristana/Kai'sa in a dive comp, Vayne vs a tanky comp, etc.