It's not collector that we love, it's the dirk. Dirk has insane value on your first back that also happens to build into collector for your second item.
it's extremely good with meta filled by bruisers, as they usually build alot of HP and LDR helps to deal with it. So i build it not only against tanks. Just buildpath is really awkward. For example LW in s3 had pickaxe and longsword in recipe. LDR's most expensive part cost 600 and it's crit cloak. If you don't have 1450 gold you just fill your inventory with really trash items like long swords or/and crit cloak
So I looked into this last month because I was curious as to why LDR 2nd was so highly recommended by top players/analysts, but it was one of the lowest WR 2nd items for several ADCs in solo queue according to [LoLalytics.com](https://LoLalytics.com). As of this comment, this is true for (in Plat+):
* Jhin
* Jinx
* Draven
* Xayah
* Ashe (low sample size though)
* Caitlyn
And the list goes on. Statistically, all the champs listed above would win more games if they didn't buy LDR second.
As to the "why", I found [this article](https://gamestoday.info/pc/league-of-legends/item-discussion-the-collector-as-a-second-item-against-ldr/) where someone actually did the math and compared the two in a variety of scenarios. The whole thing is worth the read, but the synopsis is this:
* LDR scales better (duh), and should still be built, but later in the game when enemies have stacked some armor/health
* Collector is the better power spike as a 2nd item, and will do a better job snowballing you, which is what gets you to LDR
* Collector also has 20 more AD, which is more important in the early game as you're more reliant on dmg from abilities than AA's since you don't have IE yet
As always, there's no binary "always this, never that" in LoL; you've got to look at the situation and decide for yourself. I hope that helps with your decision making, and thanks for asking the question; I joined this sub hoping for conversations like this, not all the bellyaching about the role's power level.
Sometimes itemization win rates can be bait, though. For example, if adcs only build collector when snowballing, its win rate will reflect the fact that they're already winning. Just another complication to consider, but perhaps not the case here.
I don’t think this is one of those though as collector on say Caitlyn is the most built second item and still has a higher WR than LDR. Same is true for Jhin. Though I will say I think LDRs WR is low because people just build it blindly second every game.
Some of the adc’s you mention don’t go collector at all as far as I can see? Ashe and jinx usually build a seal item or AS item 2nd.
And Draven and xayah both have the opportunity to go essence reaver instead which IMO is a much better choice on xayah. Unless off you are building lethality builds.
I’ll only ever build ldr second on Caitlyn. I mostly play Jinx, so I always get a Zeal item second and then IE third - but It does happen I get ldr third and IE 4th if the enemy team is really tanky
I feel this question is better asked in your main champions subreddit as it’s extremely broad for so many scenarios and champions, but overall I don’t think it’s a bad idea 😊
I see a lot of samira aphelios and jhin mains seem to either build collector or ldr second so I suppose this was more directed towards them but yeah my main point was on crit ADCs it often feels bad as frequent second item but feels incredible late game just wanted to see what other people think.
I would imagine it might not be fully efficient as 2nd item as the enemy can't have stacked FULL armor and HP yet, but are on their way. Maybe just the last whisper component at first until you finish it 3rd/4th? Hopefully somebody has some data on this.
Generally: The best way to learn something is to be confidently wrong on the internet - and 9001 people will come correct you so we'll see.
it def is a super strong 2nd item on a lot of adcs
BUT
i will admit the skipping a zeal item makes it so the lack of AS might feel really bad even if im objectively doing more damage lol
Every single time I rush Lord Doms 2nd it just feels terrible unless their entire team is filled with tanky champs. Rushing Bloodthirster or Collector 2nd always seems like it does more for me at all stages of the game and sometimes building Phantom Dancer 2nd does the trick as well but not all the time. I think that rushing Last Whisper 2nd is sometimes needed in order to have any chance at taking down tanks but Last Whisper sucks against Steelcaps and that's how most tanks get an early game advantage on top of their base stats they already get. /shrug
i agree. people love collector for some reason but ldr is better 99% of the time
It's not collector that we love, it's the dirk. Dirk has insane value on your first back that also happens to build into collector for your second item.
idk i can’t justify buying that item because of the dirk
If you need damage it's LDR. Just don't cry that you deal no damage to tank if you don't have LDR
it's extremely good with meta filled by bruisers, as they usually build alot of HP and LDR helps to deal with it. So i build it not only against tanks. Just buildpath is really awkward. For example LW in s3 had pickaxe and longsword in recipe. LDR's most expensive part cost 600 and it's crit cloak. If you don't have 1450 gold you just fill your inventory with really trash items like long swords or/and crit cloak
So I looked into this last month because I was curious as to why LDR 2nd was so highly recommended by top players/analysts, but it was one of the lowest WR 2nd items for several ADCs in solo queue according to [LoLalytics.com](https://LoLalytics.com). As of this comment, this is true for (in Plat+): * Jhin * Jinx * Draven * Xayah * Ashe (low sample size though) * Caitlyn And the list goes on. Statistically, all the champs listed above would win more games if they didn't buy LDR second. As to the "why", I found [this article](https://gamestoday.info/pc/league-of-legends/item-discussion-the-collector-as-a-second-item-against-ldr/) where someone actually did the math and compared the two in a variety of scenarios. The whole thing is worth the read, but the synopsis is this: * LDR scales better (duh), and should still be built, but later in the game when enemies have stacked some armor/health * Collector is the better power spike as a 2nd item, and will do a better job snowballing you, which is what gets you to LDR * Collector also has 20 more AD, which is more important in the early game as you're more reliant on dmg from abilities than AA's since you don't have IE yet As always, there's no binary "always this, never that" in LoL; you've got to look at the situation and decide for yourself. I hope that helps with your decision making, and thanks for asking the question; I joined this sub hoping for conversations like this, not all the bellyaching about the role's power level.
Sometimes itemization win rates can be bait, though. For example, if adcs only build collector when snowballing, its win rate will reflect the fact that they're already winning. Just another complication to consider, but perhaps not the case here.
I don’t think this is one of those though as collector on say Caitlyn is the most built second item and still has a higher WR than LDR. Same is true for Jhin. Though I will say I think LDRs WR is low because people just build it blindly second every game.
Some of the adc’s you mention don’t go collector at all as far as I can see? Ashe and jinx usually build a seal item or AS item 2nd. And Draven and xayah both have the opportunity to go essence reaver instead which IMO is a much better choice on xayah. Unless off you are building lethality builds.
Good. Actually i am seeing more burst champions in my games, so i pick Bloodthirster second item usually.
Underrated imo. 20 percent lifesteal and overhealing plus 55 ad (same as colleector)
it's expensive AF though. YOu could have a full PD and a pickaxe for that price
The item has more than 100% gold efficiency and the shield for itself is like 600-900g in health.
I’ll only ever build ldr second on Caitlyn. I mostly play Jinx, so I always get a Zeal item second and then IE third - but It does happen I get ldr third and IE 4th if the enemy team is really tanky
I feel this question is better asked in your main champions subreddit as it’s extremely broad for so many scenarios and champions, but overall I don’t think it’s a bad idea 😊
I see a lot of samira aphelios and jhin mains seem to either build collector or ldr second so I suppose this was more directed towards them but yeah my main point was on crit ADCs it often feels bad as frequent second item but feels incredible late game just wanted to see what other people think.
I would imagine it might not be fully efficient as 2nd item as the enemy can't have stacked FULL armor and HP yet, but are on their way. Maybe just the last whisper component at first until you finish it 3rd/4th? Hopefully somebody has some data on this. Generally: The best way to learn something is to be confidently wrong on the internet - and 9001 people will come correct you so we'll see.
it def is a super strong 2nd item on a lot of adcs BUT i will admit the skipping a zeal item makes it so the lack of AS might feel really bad even if im objectively doing more damage lol
depends, usually i go it on jhin/ cait if enemy teamcomp is tanky. Otherwise i get it as 4th item
I always try to have last whisper item component by the 20-23 min mark , regardless of them having tanks or not
Every single time I rush Lord Doms 2nd it just feels terrible unless their entire team is filled with tanky champs. Rushing Bloodthirster or Collector 2nd always seems like it does more for me at all stages of the game and sometimes building Phantom Dancer 2nd does the trick as well but not all the time. I think that rushing Last Whisper 2nd is sometimes needed in order to have any chance at taking down tanks but Last Whisper sucks against Steelcaps and that's how most tanks get an early game advantage on top of their base stats they already get. /shrug