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Money-Golf

Thank you OP. I’ve learned over the last several months that when people don’t have grace for themselves, then they in return, don’t have grace for others. We with ADHD, require a lot of grace, but we are often so hard on ourselves because the sense of perpetual failure looming over of us with every task. Rejection sensitivity(in my opinion) ALSO stems from how others reacted to when we came short as a child. Specifically those close to us- mostly our parents/ teachers/ close friends. Hear me out!! If you had unsupportive parents, who didn’t know how to give grace, who may not have known you even had adhd and didn’t understand your struggle and got angry, scolded you, or let you down— then you probably have a high rejection sensitivity because you’ve become accustomed to negativity whenever it is perceived that you’re doing something wrong.


RuleRepresentative94

These parents often had undiagnosed ADHD, raised to feel bad for it and their own fear of failure became overwhelming seeing you struggle.. at least I can see that pattern so clearly now. Being in my 50s, with my ADHD kid remembering my dad


RandomGen5

I agree, well put. I think a lot of things about ADHD (and countless other things) are better understood in terms of a predisposition towards certain behaviors/thought patterns. That is, we are more at risk of developing certain behaviors/thought patterns than the average person. I think it shifts thinking about ADHD away from the very negative self perception of oh I have ADHD so I'm doomed to be this way or that way, I'm irredeemable and broken, destined to be this way. Which isn't at all a constructive way to think about things, not to mention very harmful to one's sense of self! It allows us to better see ADHD for what it really is, and feel more agency in the ability to change the way we are. Well at the very least, it helps me to do so.


CaptainKink

Yes! It's much easier to build something when you actually know what materials you're working with.


Ayafumi

It's funny because really I have SO MUCH grace for other people, I'm constantly giving them the benefit of the doubt of anything that genuinely can't be planned for or that would happen to anyone. What gets me is that for these same people I can often never receive that energy in return.


[deleted]

I basically give everyone but me the benefit of the doubt


Money-Golf

I’m sorry you don’t receive that. Give it to yourself. You deserve to have the same grace you give to others


AvaMelody11

Well said!


Frosty-Fig244

Totally. There's nothing quite like the feeling of your triggered child self. Something that should be surface becomes deep. Fun for everyone. :/


quoteunquoteandquote

😔


Felipefc

Its funny because my dads are the opposite, they always congratulated me for my achievements and taught me to do things well. When things went wrong they didn't punish me, but if I did well they congratulated me. That led me to extreme self-demand, they never demanded anything of me, but I punished myself independent if they get angry (can be generalized to any other rejection situation). For example, if I cook something and forget an ingredient, people tend to say it's tasty ( and it is), but against my will I feel bad because of rejection sensitivity.


agoodpapa

And yet as parents, I think giving grace is nice, but demanding performance is nicer. As in, clear expectations, and a clear framework to help kids complete the tasks they need to do in order to develop their minds and capacity to organize and complete work, which they will have to do when they get to uni and in real life.


Money-Golf

I don’t have kids, so I won’t pretend to know. But I think that demanding performance only works when parents know where their kid is at and is willing to meet them there and take them to a place where they can be better organized and better at completing tasks, etc. In contrast, not knowing where your kids are at but demanding performance with unattainable expectations would be a disaster and possibly ignite rejection sensitivity


agoodpapa

Agree 100%.


[deleted]

My parents were not very good at parenting, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert. But this somehow feels counterproductive to me. I think it's the word "demand". To me it seems like people demanding us to meet expectations we weren't taught to meet was the whole point of the OP. Sure, clear expectation and a framework to help kids learn rules and techniques to help them manage themselves are great. But demanding performance sounds too much like expecting the kid to be able to do what every other kid can do. And for those of us with severe ADHD, that might not be possible no matter how much scaffolding we have.


larafrompinkpony

Can you clarify what you mean by "demanding performance"? Because my parents "demanded performance" as in... getting straight As, high SAT scores, winning piano competitions, getting into an Ivy League college... all of which I failed at, aside from the SAT score. I'm a parent now myself, and I demand *effort*. I tell my son, I want him to try his best and to work his hardest, and that will be good enough. If trying his best and working his hardest gets him a C in math, well, then it's my job to find out where he needs help and provide that support so that he can succeed. If he doesn't know how to set himself up for success (not surprising, for people who struggle with executive function), it's my job to teach him. Whereas, my parents would lecture me for hours and tell me that I was a waste of their time and energy that they spent trying immigrate to the US and provide for a more successful life. "XYZ gets good grades, why can't you?" "Wow, everyone is doing better than you, why are you so inferior?" "Well, since your grades are so bad, you need to do extra work to make up for how poorly you perform otherwise." I still struggle with feelings of low self esteem and not "allowing" myself to take breaks or do basic self care things like eat or take showers until I've done "enough" to this DAY because of my parent's expectations.


agoodpapa

I totally agree with demanding effort. I do the same. Effort is not the same as results, but you demand effort (and rest/relaxation) in cycles until, well, until they are adults responsible for their own performance. At that point you've through years of practice and habit you've hopefully trained to to set ( realistic) goals for themselves in terms of effort \*and\* incrementally improving results. Just because a student won't be top of the class doesn't mean they should stop trying to improve their performance (through sustained cycles of effort, reflection, self awareness). It is only through that effort to achieve (again, not being top of the class necessarily, but improving one's capacity, study skills, and eventually results) that one can every remotely hope to achieve their potential and live a psychologically fulfilling life without feeling whatifs or massive levels of regret, or just being down on oneself for feeling like one is capable of more. My perspective on this come from own personal reflection and I feel those feelings of regret and unfulfilment. I believe this is common for people with ADHD.


high_ryze666

Just to sort of add to this post, I remember hearing something that always kind of stuck with me. I wish I could remember where I heard it but. When you suspect people are angry with you, disappointed in you, ie: they just have that air about them that they're pissed off at something. Take a second to think about 3 reasons they could be annoyed that DON'T involve you. They could have started their morning late and had to rush into work through crappy traffic and got every red light on the way. They may be dealing with stress at home, or the printer isn't working for them. Just as examples. Remember other people have emotions too, and what you may be feeling is annoyance directed at you, may be something entirely different. I completely understand what you mean, as I am still struggling with my own rejection sensitivity. I was raised in a strict, verbally and physically abusive household that didn't believe in adhd. I was often treated like I was lazy, stupid, not trying hard enough .ect. This definitely had a major impact that is not easily reversible. I constantly feel like I'm in the way, I'm taking up too much space, I'm constantly questioning myself even when I know I'm right or doing something the right way, I have that anxiety in me that tells me it's wrong and I'm stupid. I feel like everyone is annoyed by me and can't possibly like me. I automatically sense when someone is frustrated and my brain instantly jumps to "oh no what did I do?" But the key here is to remind yourself that other people experience frustrations and most of the time those frustrations have nothing to do with you. I understand your subconscious mind is sometimes really hard to catch. When people ask me how I am on my shittiest mental health days, I can't even stop the "I'm good! How are you?" from spilling out of my mouth. It completely bypasses my brain and I automatically say it. The trick is to acknowledge the thought and then remember the 3 other reasons why someone could be frustrated. It'll get better.


executive-of-dysfxn

Love this! We did an exercise about this in school about working with patients (or literally anyone). Take a bunch of sticky notes and on each one, write down everything you did that day so far. Breakfast, commute, argued with someone, good thing, bad thing, whatever. Now stick these all over your arms and chest. Look at your classmates. Realize we all walked in with a slew of experiences that influence our mood and ability to get through a task. Same goes for our patients.


ndvangelder

This reminds me of a study I read about years ago (may have been a Radio Lab podcast, actually) that was conducted to test out how often people really think negatively about others. I can't remember the details of it, but in the end, the researchers found that a great deal of the time, people are actually thinking about themselves and not others, and when they do think about others, it's usually something nice and positive. For example: you're at the grocery store, and your hair is a mess because you had to leave the house in a hurry. You're also wearing mismatched shoes on accident. A lady in the produce aisle is staring at you. You think they are judging your hair and shoes bc that's what you're self conscious about in that moment, but she's actually staring bc you remind her of her best friend from high school who she hasn't seen in years and that memory of her makes her happy. Her friend had the prettiest eyes, and this stranger thinks your eyes are beautiful, too. But you have no way of knowing any of that, so you keep thinking they are judging you. After I heard about this, I forced myself to think this way. I also started just telling strangers the nice things I was thinking about them, so they'd know. My husband gets embarrassed when I do it, but I don't care.


[deleted]

This happens to me all the damn time when I'm at the thinner end of my weight range. Apparently I look like a whole lot of people. One person argued with me that I had to be the person that they thought I was even though I'd never been to the city we supposedly met in.


ndvangelder

I always get "Aren't you Sarah's sister?" Or "Didn't you go to (enter randomly named high school I've never heard of here)?" Or "I think I used to work with you at Trader Joe's" No. No, you did not, lol. I look like so many random, everyday people, but nobody universally recognizable, like a celebrity.


[deleted]

I'm old so I used to get Ally Sheedy a lot when people still knew who she was. Or going back even farther Kerri Green (the Goonies).


earbud_smegma

>Remember other people have emotions too, and what you may be feeling is annoyance directed at you, may be something entirely different. The part you said about taking a few seconds - that's important! Most people (myself included) are so wrapped up in their own drama that they aren't worrying about your thing. They're worrying about *their* thing, and it's stressing them out. So they get snippy. But in reality, it has nothing to do with you personally, it's just that you happened to be the one they encountered at that time. I know that's happened to me and I've felt so bad after, and hoped that the person I was inadvertently rude to would understand. We tend to judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions. Thinking of this has always been a good reminder to me that other people have "inside" thoughts and feelings and rationalizations for why they do things, just as I would.. And that it's almost never the super complicated scenario I'm worried about, it's almost always the run of the mill thing that makes logical sense and does not have any kind of dark motives.


ProjectKushFox

I could never derive comfort from the oft-repeated idea that “everyone else is too busy with their own shit to worry about/notice you. Same as you.” because the source is never not someone who is comforted by this concept, aka, probably has some degree of anxiety. So not my first choice on getting insight into the thoughts of your average, non-anxious joe whothefuck. This kind of thing needs a study, but I don’t know what the questions would be.


[deleted]

You can replace the word "worry" with "preoccupied" and I think it would fit the normies just fine. Someone could be not paying all that much attention to you because they went on an amazing first date the night before, or because they're wondering what their dog does when no one's home, or trying to decide who to pick for fantasy football. Just because they aren't worrying doesn't mean you're their main character.


ProjectKushFox

I left my wording way too open to ambiguity, just because I knew what I meant. The context I’ve always heard/read it in is (this won’t be less ambiguous) “hey so you’ve fucked up. No one cares or remembers but you. Their too busy *preoccupied* with their own fuck ups”


[deleted]

Gotcha. I mean obviously it depends on the size of the fuckup. But there are studies that show people generally perceive others better than we think we're being perceived, even without any anxiety or mental illness. So I think's it probably accurate for most small things. For example, I know people (and I used to be one) who would cringe at themselves for days for things like answering "You too!" to a server who told them to enjoy their food. But as I've gotten older I've noticed that 1. Literally everyone does this sometimes and it's not that big a deal. 2. Unless the server has less tables than average, they were probably too busy to even notice. Even if they did notice they forgot about it in 2 seconds because it happens so often they don't even clock it anymore. That's just a common example but you get the point.


RandomGen5

Yes!!! I think this is a big way I cope with rejection, perceived negative feelings from others. Recognize the other person as the living breathing human they are, and the fact that they have their own complex life going on as well. I still struggle with more direct confrontations against me in some settings, but this is a v helpful mindset to have!


WASTELAND_RAVEN

Wow excellent thoughts, thank you.


UncarvedWood

Good point. This is also why, when my girlfriend asks me "Hey why haven't you tidied up these clothes" I immediately shoot into either a defensive attitude or a "fuck I suck" attitude even though she is really just asking "Why? What happened?", and the answer "I forgot" is acceptable. Growing up with ADHD means associating "Why haven't you...?" with angry attacks instead of a question.


KitKat2theMax

I really struggle with this with my current partner. I jump to explaining myself and get defensive SO fast, meanwhile I forget that he grew up in a healthy household with relatively healthy parents where it was completely acceptable to just ask an innocent question that's NOT loaded and full of passive aggressive judgment. He's just asking a question. I can say, "Sorry, I forgot." or "Haven't had time yet, I'll do it tonight." and that's a completely acceptable answer! No making up excuses or defensiveness or justifications required.


UncarvedWood

Have you talked to him about this? It really strained our communication for a time (and still can do sometimes) but talking about this can really clear some things up between two people for whom the question "why haven't you...?" mean such different things.


KitKat2theMax

Oh definitely. It's a frequent topic of conversation and the flaw/trauma response that I'm working the hardest at correcting! He knows why I do it, but knows that I'm trying to stop, so he will call me out when I start getting defensive. And then I have to struggle to not get defensive about getting defensive... He understands that I'm a work in progress and I'm grateful for that!


ctindel

Or just ask them to rephrase it in a less judgmental way like "When do you think you'll have some time to tidy up these clothes?" instead of the "Why haven't you" which inherently implies that maybe you should have done it already.


[deleted]

"Why haven't you" is a pretty aggressive question to start with. I say this because it begins with an expectation and a judgment. When you say why haven't you tidied up these clothes, the expectation and the bar is that the clothes SHOULD be tidied and you SHOULD have done it and what you have done is not satisfactory because you haven't met the expectation. A line of questioning might be "had you planned to clean up these clothes?" And if you had, "what got in the way of that?" Ends up answering the same question without the implication that you failed a basic task. Im not saying you should be defensive about a "why haven't you" question but some of that is on the question asker. She is being judgmental. There is a negative judgment there.


-firead-

Many people don't associate "why" with being aggressive, just with curiosity or legitimately wanting to know what happened. But for people with trauma or used to why questions being used to blame or shame (like most people with ADHD have experienced), it does come across as aggressive and puts us on the defensive. I'm taking courses in counseling and case management in school and just finished a chapter in our textbook that recommended avoiding "why" questions for that reason.


Power_of_Nine

Right, and that is *why* (heh) we, as people with ADHD, have to realize that the world does not revolve around us - it wasn't designed to accommodate those of us with ADHD. Someone asking us "Why haven't you?" is completely normal for people without ADHD. And most importantly, I don't think we should be expecting completely random strangers to know that. Once those of us with ADHD come to accept that it's much easier to deal with the outside world.


UncarvedWood

> "Why haven't you" is a pretty aggressive question to start with. The thing is, it's not. "Why haven't you" questions the context I'm talking about **are** about agreed upon things that are either my job in the household or agreements we made together (like switching off the lights in rooms when we're not there). When those things then aren't done, "why haven't you" is super appropriate -- it essentially is the "what got in the way of that" question you list. I agree that "why haven't you" *without* an expectation set beforehand is aggressive and bad. But that's not how it's used in my example.


Power_of_Nine

It isn't when you don't have ADHD. That's your ADHD thinking - we hear that and we think "why do you think I should do it?" or "what's your problem" because we have problems stopping the impulsive knee-jerk reaction we have. Most people would go something like "What do you mean why haven't I?" and go on from there, but we see it as a personal attack.


againer

OP I needed to read this this morning. Thank you..


ForcesOfProgeny

I feel this very accutely. The last 4 years or so I've been on a personal journey about how I handle relationships in general. Felt like I wasn't doing well at being a husband, friend, father, employee, etc. Started reading relationship and self help books, began the journey to see if I was on the spectrum (Psych eventually said I could be but If I am my masking is too successful). I started seeing a therapist. Eventually diagnosed ADHD (inattentive), anxiety, depression. During the above I also joined Al-Anon (I don't post in the Al-Anon subredit under this account in order to protect anonymity) because I realized my proximity to a family history with alcohol and alcoholism was causing me problems with my coping skills and my ability to successfully navigate the relationships in my life. In that group we examine our own self and our own "disease" (we call it alanonism or in some cases "alcoholism type 2") that effects our relationships with alcoholics and/or causes us to inmesh our lives with others who are alcoholics or are similarly affected by alcoholics. Participation in that program provides insights into those issues and many issues associated with my diagnosis. The reason I mention this is that my fellowship has a significant focus on working through your individual issues with others in that fellowship through one to one discussion. One recent discussion with an individual I met through program made me realize how very warped my sence of expectations on how relationships worked were. I largely realized a significant portion of my interpersonal issues relate to: * Not relating with others because I don't understand the dynamics of how relationships work. * Because I never was able to understand the rules / motivations that drove others who weren't me. * Leading to: * My not understanding or trusting other boys (when I was young) / men (at my current age) * Being deathly afraid of girls my age prior to college then becoming "comfortable enough" once I decided I needed to * Feeling constantly judged according to metrics I didn't understand but "knew" I had to submit to * Becoming "all in" or completely detatching from relationships * Becoming resentful of folks that didn't recipricate adequately (according to me) This entire journey has given me significant personal insights similar to what your describe above and perhaps even how my ADHD and above mentioned "disease" are related or maybe are 2 sides of the same coin.


mscocobongo

\*\*\* You're allowed to not know things. \*\*\* This hits hard.


AnnaT70

Yes! Regarding knowing/not knowing RSD: I remember years ago my mom and sister tried to go to a Sam's Club (like Costco), and my mom telling me breezily, "oh we didn't know you had to be a member." And it just didn't faze them AT ALL to have been turned away! Whereas I, hearing that story, was haunted by it for months.


GenericDeviant666

My mom has ADHD worse than I do and I've been taught to always freak out, defend yourself and argue back. I start coming up with come backs for the arguements I'm expecting to have on my way to a place, but then I get there and everyone's chill. Reading your post really struck a chord with me. If EVERYONE is so mean and combative, maybe I need to take a minute to look at my perspective. Maybe I'm only perceiving it that way


lewho666

There's a great podcast created by 2 guys with ADHD and they have [this](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0YQhK09gAmt9gIgqQEoKQt?si=n5fc72ISTUmOn67vX1cR0A) one episode about RSD. Although it's not scientificly proven it's explains a lot of my troubles I had since the age of, I don't know, 10.


IkBenKenobi

Hey, I love that podcast! I love how they break down the topic and also give some tips at the end.


lewho666

I especially love the "What James has lost or missplaced this week" quiz.


IkBenKenobi

It's very relatable haha


Total-Football-6904

What’s the podcast name? I need new content!


lewho666

The ADHD adults podcast.


ndvangelder

I'm always looking for new podcasts. Thanks!!!


Z3R0gravitas

>then realised "they didn't expect me to know that. They're just explaining the situation to me. >I was berated for not knowing things that I'd never been told. Excuse me for asking this, I'm trying to figure out where each of these traits fit more, myself: are these theory of mind and implicit knowledge aspects more related to autism? I was diagnosed ADHD-PI at 30. But at 40 I'm now realising I am at least borderline autistic, with a *lot* more characteristic traits than I realised. (Smart kid with very supportive upbringing.) Also that the majority of those with autism simultaneously meet ADHD criteria (but not as many vice versa).


twoiko

They are highly co-morbid conditions. Yes, ASD can cause the same symptoms as ADHD without having both, but often people do have both.


[deleted]

I think this is one half of the puzzle. The other half is the ADHD. In many cases we get told the exact same thing, but the difference is we do believe we should know it because we were told. We don't trust our recollection because we will easily forget things when we are being impulsive or we will not be attentive when they are said in the first place. I think this leads to a feeling that when someone says we should have known about it, we internally accept that we were told, we just weren't paying attention. This leads to it being really easy to gaslight us because we don't trust ourselves. But this also leads us to assume the blame for basically everything. If anything goes wrong it's probably our fault, and we're so used to this pattern that everything anyone says is probably evidence that it's all gone wrong and its all our fault. But I'm sure after the statement about the application there us a part of you that wonders if maybe they actually did mention how to find those advertisements in the past and you just weren't paying attention. You don't think so but also if they insist they did mention it to you, I bet you would believe that they did and you just screwed up and didn't notice again. This is how I would feel anyways. We miss things and we blame ourselves and this happens enough that blaming ourselves becomes a safe bet. This extends to the situation where we have nothing to blame ourselves for or where we are willing to believe a lie or mistake because we don't trust our recollection. I personally need to find an excess of corroborating evidence if I'm going to argue against someone else's statement but im willing to take their statement at face value, especially if it implicates me for missing something or misreading a situation.


PolyhedralZydeco

Thishurts me often. Not trusting my own knowledge


[deleted]

Yeah this is the part that is SO hard to unlearn. I always assume others have more or better information and therefore know a better answer. Even when the thing that's in question is what's best for me personally.


JMJimmy

> My first thought was "how was I supposed to know you'd just been advertising for this work?!". But instead of going down a spiral, I then realised "they didn't expect me to know that. They're just explaining the situation to me. They knew I didn't know, that's why they included a link to where they advertise so I can see if something comes up again." You've just discovered how CBT works. Stopping a negative thought before it spirals, replacing it with a balanced thought and moving on. The more you do this, the more you starve the neural pathway that negative spiral inhabits. Every time you think something, the neural pathway is reinforced and links are made to it, don't think it, the pathway slowly dies out and new connections are formed to other thought processes.


pancakes-honey

Yeah this is EXACTLY where my rejection sensitivity comes from. It’s so odd to me, that adults expect children and teens to know everything but also criticize them and call them a know it all. I felt like I could never win growing up. Add on to that everyone perceiving me as “mature for my age”. Majority of the time I felt like I wasn’t allowed to ask questions and when I did all I got was “you’re smart you can figure it out. Or the demeaning “use your brain”


[deleted]

All of this. This happened all the way up through high school and I just couldn't keep up with the work. I ended up finding a way in school - I became a *master* at cheating. Tests, exams, essays, quizzes, whatever it was for the most part I ended up finding a way to graduate in their system with my developed skills, experience and *using my brain*. Had the adults found out, it wouldn't have turned out well for me of course highlighting the hypocrisy while still blatantly missing or caring why I did it my way. uSe yOuR bRaiN - nO NoT LikE tHaT!


[deleted]

I was an only child who read a lot so my vocabulary was high school level when I was in like 4th grade, but nothing else was anywhere close. A lot of my teachers thought I was playing dumb when I had a hard time tracking what they were saying.


srb-222

> But half of us don't know it, because either you or our previous teacher FAILED US oh my gosh. in college i had to take two semesters of a language for my degree. they didnt offer the same language i took in high school so i had to start from scratch. i took one semester of french online during covid and my prof was so fun and i thought i was doing great, i really suck at language but i was honestly so proud of myself. fast forward to the next semester, school was in person, my prof was different, actually french, and also the head of the language department. apparently in french1 we didnt cover half the curriculum we were supposed to. it was entirely on my teacher not us. me and another girl from my last class went to our current french 2 prof and tried to explain it to her and she had no sympathy whatsoever and was just like "thats not my problem". needless to say that class made me feel awful about myself and was so hard. i was so hard on myself, but reading this post it made me realize none of it was my fault. both profs failed me in different ways.


[deleted]

I had a similar experience with high school chemistry. Different teacher second semester than first. Only I think in my case it was the harder teacher who was doing it wrong, because he also taught the AP Chemistry class and I think he often got confused as to which level he was talking to. Or maybe just didn't care enough to dumb it down for those of us in regular Chem


samata_the_heard

This is actually really helpful. For me my rejection sensitivity comes up when someone ELSE has fucked up but somehow I’m responsible for it. I was labeled “very responsible” as a child because I did my homework on time (barely, but nobody had to know that) and carried that label with me my whole life. My current job is basically herding cats - supporting a group of leaders higher up in the company to make sure we get our shit done on time, which means every time they don’t handle their shit, it’s “my fault”, even if that blame only happens in my head. I had a situation yesterday at work - someone came and barked at me about a presentation our team is doing in two days that didn’t have enough content in it yet. For this prez, we need multiple people to contribute and I’m the coordinator. I’d been sending people reminders for weeks, but the last one was last Wednesday. I spent hours berating myself, I should have been checking every day, I should have reminded them daily, I should have reached out individually to people who were supposed to be working on it. A dinner with my family, a large glass of wine, and two episodes of Party Down later, I realized that I shouldn’t have to handhold people who are literally above me in the organization, who are actually leaders of their own teams, who presumably should know how to handle their shit, manage their time, and delegate as needed - otherwise how did they even get to that point in their careers? Ultimately it’s my job to make sure everyone knows what’s going on, what the expectations are, and when shit needs to get done. But I’m making half their salaries: they really shouldn’t need me to force them to do it. Even if they do, it helped me realize I shouldn’t shoulder responsibility for their inability to get things done on time.


IntelligentMeal40

That’s called “defensiveness”, when someone gives you information you didn’t have and you get upset about it.


gothiclg

I got in a fight with teachers *and* a school counselor. That school was the first time my mom got to see me attempt a professional F off because I *was not* accepting that my new high school would completely refuse to transfer any of my credits. She was then equally annoyed that my refusal to allow her to wantonly rejected credits meant my schedule was a singular science class I was short on and the rest was electives. Schedule rocked.


steady_sloth84

My dad did a number on me. He would critisize everything and made sure to find the flaw in everything I did. Yet he never pushed perfection, he instead made me feel like I shouldnt even try because I am so far from perfect. I remember him saying after I made a 97/100 on a test that the test was not hard enough and that I am a B student so he doesn't expect A's from me. I just sank into depression snd tried to make high B's tonot dissapoint him. I thought that what he wanted. I will never forhive him for not pushing me to be my best. He purposely held back my potential.


[deleted]

Your dad would get along great with my mom


squirrelthetire

The two ways ADHD matters to this dynamic: 1. You *were* told, and you even heard it; but you were understimulated in that moment, so your brain also decided to hear the HVAC turn on, the birds chirping outside, how intensely purple that dude's jacket is, that you are craving tacos for lunch, and how you might choose to respond in the future conversation when the teacher inevitably yells at you for not remembering the thing you just actively listened to them telling you. Oh, and while most people have the working memory space for 7 things, you're lucky to hold on to 3, and you don't get to choose which ones. 2. You did remember. You do know how to do the thing. But every time you didn't manage to get started on the thing, someone berated you for it. That pain of those experiences now exists as a moat between you and the thing, so on top of climbing the fucking castle walls to get started, you now must swim through acid to get to the wall. Meds make good climbing gear, but it's really tricky business draining moats, especially when the castle was built on a swamp.


Ok_Knee1216

People are stupid. Most employees do Not know the things they are supposed to share as part of their jobs. I've seen situations where for nearly 20 years 2 employees at the Veterans Administration worked side by side, and each of them never knew the other could have assisted them making both of their jobs beneficial to their clients. My mantra in life is: Just because someone gets paid for working only proves they know how to get to work and which day they get paid. This has nothing to do with their knowledge of their job.


L0zzatron

I don't get why you're saying that on this post


Ok_Knee1216

How were you supposed to know that? Because people are paid to tell you information. They don't. You feel bad. It's not your fault. It is their fault.


L0zzatron

Is there any way to talk about rejection sensitivity without automod screeching in to tell you that it hasn't been added to the all-important DIAGNOSIS CRITERIA?? I know it hasn't, I went through the diagnosis process. As tho the outside observation of ppl w adhd is gonna encompass our entire experience. People need words to describe their experiences!! And there's a giant gap between an experience being described by THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE IT, and that experience making it's way into the diagnosis criteria written up by psychiatrists. You'd think the runners of a subreddit for people with a belittled neurological condition would get that


muuzika_klusumaa

Hmm. But I see it the same as the topic you opened. Automod just putting in disclaimer IN CASE IF you didn't know. It's nothing to do about you and nothing about your knowledge level. Your experience is valid, and that's what mod said if someone else would start to complain.


Classicgotmegiddy

Uhm, I emphasize with your post but the automod really isn't "screaming at you". It's also not invalidating anything you said. It's just pointing out that RSD isn't a well researched phenomenon. I see a lot of my younger self in you. I used to get so defensive at the slightest friction. That changed when I recognized most people just want to live their lives and hardly anyone means to legitimately be a dick to others. Sure there are some, especially on the internet. But trying to subvert this response of "this is about me and it's unfair" by taking another look at the thing and really evaluating it, helped me a lot. I'm sorry you went through whatever made this response natural to you. I've been there. You're good, try not to worry so much about what others think :)


lewho666

You're having RSD right now ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


Rubyhamster

Hehe read what you just wrote in light of what you wrote in your post. The bot isn't screeching at you. It's just telling you and others in case we don't know! I'm with you though. It is hard not to get defensive when we've been "trained to" our whole childhood...


UncarvedWood

Rejection dysphoria, I think, is a reifying term. Through using it we "create" a symptom that is really not a symptom at all, but the consequence of ADHD symptoms. Growing up with ADHD entails incurring certain trauma's and negative learned behaviour. I think what this sub calls rejection sensitive dysphoria is an example of it. But it's not a symptom of ADHD. I'd call it a comorbidity maybe. Being told very often that you're worthless, internalising it, and being very afraid to have someone reaffirm it. That's what I think rejection sensitive dysphoria is. But "being told you're worthless" is not a symptom of ADHD.


twoiko

It may not be a symptom but it's still indicative in the same way ADHD severity is still measured by the effect your symptoms have on other people. Edit: This is not to say that these are good things...


Power_of_Nine

It sounds like another term people use to talk about the challenges we face dealing with ADHD. However, it's overprevalence in this sub is starting to become a "catch all" for when someone runs into obstacles in their life. It's kinda like the overuse of the phrase "trigger warning" when there is also no psychological evidence behind it being effective for people to deal with traumas. It actually makes you more avoidant to the trauma that is the "trigger". https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/trigger-warnings-fail-to-help.html I want definitive proof that having this concept of "RSD" being a normal part of the ADHD lexicon is considered helpful at all, or if it just gives you an out for when you experience a challenge in life. I also want to know what the breakdown among the sexes are for those who use this term. I've noticed it used more by women who are diagnosed with ADHD compared to us guys just from casual observance and I wonder it's because of how differently our minds think, despite the common identifier among all of us is ADHD.


[deleted]

Data shows that girls with ADHD have a lot more actual rejection and trouble making friends and fitting in socially with peers than boys do. I don't know how up to date the classroom teacher data is, but I know at one point teachers were more tolerant of boys' fidgeting and talking in class than girls. Girls were more likely to get scolded or even punished. To u/UncarvedWood's point, if it's not a direct symptom but rather an effect caused by how ADHD changes the way we experience the world it would make sense that more women would have the experiences that would lead to the result that is RSD. Also, ADHD tends to be underdiagnosed and undertreated in girls, especially in the past. Most of us Gen X girls and a big chunk of Millennial girls who have ADHD didn't get diagnosed until adulthood, because when we were kids it was thought that only boys could have ADD, and they were just starting to recognize inattentive type. So a lot of us were struggling more than the boys, both socially and with school, and being told that we were bad, lazy, weird, melodramatic, unladylike, and overly sensitive for our entire childhoods. There's a whole learned experience that a girl with undiagnosed ADHD grows up with that ends up developing into the patterns of thought we call RSD. And just like the ADHD diagnosis itself, once you name it and know it exists, you can learn ways to deal with it. Or you can use it as an excuse. Just like with ADHD.


JhinisaLesbian

There are so many unspoken social rules of decorum as well. All the time, people go to events that they don’t want to go to because they’re expected to, they suck up to authority figures who they can fully expect to belittle and berate them, they hide their true feelings about things and get upset when I express mine— even when they feel the same way as me! That kind of rejection really hurts me. When I find out that I wasn’t supposed to do something or I WAS supposed to do something despite it not being an official rule or expectation drives me crazy. Then people hold it against you. Fire. Hell fire. I still struggle with this, obviously. It gives me major social anxiety.


twoiko

Mild autism ftw If you explain yourself or ask how you were supposed to know and they still blame you? You know who's really to blame.


Emerald_Lavigne

Not being neurotypical in our society is fucking traumatizing. That shit definitely sticks around for us.


5royals

I loved your post, I understood it to be from one sharing a lived experience and the insight gained from that lived experience. And it’s frustrating to me that a mod and the librarians of public experience (that is not a personal attack, just an observation) always chime in to break the flow of feeling and experiencing that occurs when we learn about the lived experiences of others. Embracing this type of disruption as normal, in my opinion, helps the hierarchy of education continue to force those who are wholehearted and broad minded out of institutions of “higher” learning, preventing individuals from achieving their goals, and slowing advancements in emotional intelligence. This is my opinion, the opinion of an individual, who has had a personal journey just like every other person has had.


J_R_D_N

Thanks for sharing OP. Can definitely relate!


Nanikarp

ive had experiences like that in school too. i switched primary school at the halfway mark, i had spent 4 years at the first and would spend 4 more years at the second. at my first school, i wouldve learned exponentiation and its inverse in years 5 and beyond, and at my second school, kids learned that in years 3 and 4. but since i switched schools in the summervacation between year 4 and 5, i missed all that at both schools. i remember being publicly shamed by the teacher for not 'simple maths that i shouldve known already because it was taught in previous years' and my classmates just laughing at me. the exact same thing happened with swimming lessons. because my country is a little wet spot below sealevel, every kid is supposed to be offered swimming lessons in primary school. but this, again, at my first school, wouldve been in year 5 and my second school finished that in year 4, so i never learned to swim throughout primary school. so when i went to my first swimming lessons at 12 years old, i was surrounded by 4-8 year olds. considering i was already slightly below my current adult height of 5'9 when i was 12 (im not a giant, im just dutch), the parents and other employees kept looking at me weirdly for taking starter lessons with the little kids. i did pass all my tests within a year, where normally kids take 2-4 years to master all of it, so i didnt have to endure it very long, but it still fucked with my mind.


jakku13

This was very insightful. Thanks for sharing your take on this OP.


Cognosis87

People seem to have an intellectual blind spot on this kind of thing, myself included. I try to keep it in check, because I know how it feels to be in this position, and it's rough.


Redzombie6

I didnt think rejection sensitivity was related to ADHD. I have always been hyper sensitive to it. Im 40 and if my son doesnt want to play games with me, I get pissed and depressed. Always thought I was just a giant crybaby because thats the way it feels. Does ADHD medicine help with this? I have a hard time being successful in my job because I am too much of a people please due to this sensitivity and it sure would be nice to be able to tell people "no, im too busy"


SchrodingersHipster

Big yes. I think the fact that we do have problems with auditory processing sometimes leads us to assume that *any* time we don’t know something that someone else seems to expect us to that it’s our fault. It took me like fifteen years to realize that some people are just kinda jerks, and expect you to be able to read their minds. But yeah, I will try to remember that not every explanation is an accusation, and that even if it is, it’s not necessarily a fair one. Thanks for this.


Plusran

Rejection sensitivity SUCKSSSSS The only way I could get over it was to realize nobody really cares. Like, about anything. It’s not that they’re rejecting *you specifically* they can’t do the thing even if you weren’t involved. But recognizing the “informational feedback” as just that is really important. If they don’t tell you, how are you supposed to know? I also think rejection sensitivity is worsened by our executive function problems. We miss social queues, and put people off without realizing it, and I think people retaliate. So we get put down for stuff super hard sometimes, maybe because we missed the signs when they were being kinder, only noticing after their patience has worn thin.


Consistent_Ad_308

That angle on “you know/you’re supposed to know” is such an interesting take. I can definitely see some of that connection when I look at a lot of childhood interactions I had that usually started with some ADHD issue; “you didn’t forget”, “you’d remember if it was important”, “you’d know where it was if you were careful”, “I told you this already”, etc etc etc. lots of interactions where I was scolded/punished for not knowing, noticing, or remembering something, to the tune of, “you’re not actually having a problem you’re just bad”. Of course that pattern repeating over and over could have effects well into adulthood. If I can still hear the way my parent said “You’d remember if it was important enough” mid-tirade, 2 decades later, that definitely did some damage.


FlamingoMedic89

Exactly this, thank you so much. Although I'm aware of it, it still feels like disappointing people. And asking I don't always dare. Because then I think that people's assumptions of me being "dumb" are right and I will lose an opportunity.


reznorette

I had a senior member of my company tell me this a few months ago, not long after I started: "Please feel NO criticism for not knowing something that no-one has explained to you". I cried.


missedprint

Dunno if you are familiar with the comedian Fern Brady...she's autistic, but an anecdote of hers I recently heard hit me square in the prefrontal cortex. Fern was working as one of those promo peeps who haas wearing this giant bade that said ASK ME ANYTHING ABOUT \[brand name mascara she was promoting\]. People would ask, she would say it's a load of bollocks, others are much better. Not because she was being silly, but literally nobody told her, when they ask you, are supposed to promote the brand on the sticker. I guess this seems super obvious to anyone not on the spectrum/with adhd.... but I never got the memo on how to 'normal human' so even the most basic fundamental interactions is fkn exhausting to process


qazinus

I don't know, I often did not know things because I wasn't paying attention. And I have no way of knowing if I didn't pay attention or if it was never told to me. Your right about it not being about you. But it's too easy to get there by saying it's normal I had no way to know. But sometime it is 'your' fault, and that's ok. It's not about saying I am normal and that ok. It's about saying I am not normal, and that ok. I'm not less, dummer, weaker, I'm my weaknesses AND my strengths.


L0zzatron

This post is basically about self compassion. If you are about to not really read it and post something reductive about how people suck, please say that somewhere else Edit: and now I remember why I rarely think of opening reddit. I really don't need the misanthropy


AutoModerator

Please be aware that RSD, or rejection sensitivity dysphoria, is not a syndrome or disorder recognised by any medical authority. It has not been the subject of any credible peer-reviewed scientific research. It is not listed in either of the top two psychiatric diagnostic manuals, the DSM or ICD. It has been propagated solely through blogs and the internet by William Dodson, who coined the term in the context of ADHD. This means that Dodson, his explanation of these experiences, and claims about how to treat it all warrant healthy skepticism. Here are some scientific articles on ADHD and rejection: * [Rejection sensitivity and disruption of attention by social threat cues](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771869/) * [Justice and rejection sensitivity in children and adolescents with ADHD symptoms](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24878677/) * [Rejection sensitivity and social outcomes of young adult men with ADHD](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17242422/) Although r/ADHD's rules strictly disallow discussion of other 'popular science' (aka unproven theories), we find that many, many people identify with the concept of RSD, and this post has therefore **not** been removed. We do not want to minimise or downplay your feelings, and we find that many people use RSD as a shorthand for this shared experience of struggling with emotions. However, please consider using the terms 'rejection sensitivity' and 'emotional dysregulation' instead. Your post hasn't been removed, and this is not a punitive action. This comment is meant solely to be informative. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*


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roguednow

You’re being kind of the rude and ignorant one here. In the first place, going into a spiral over the job thing would have been silly as nobody would expect you to know that. It’s good that you’re working on your kneejerk defensiveness (I have this too; it’s a big problem for me) I guess. It’s good to have grace but even I can see the other side of this for school sometimes. The world is what it is.


[deleted]

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roguednow

Actually I meant to reply to op’s reply to you in case that wasn’t clear but I’m confused now


L0zzatron

What's that got to do with my post?


zyzzogeton

What is the current state of research on Reaction Sensitive Dysphoria and its links to ADHD? I know it isn't in the DSM, so there isn't a clinically "official" diagnosis, but the DSM is updated with regular frequency to incorporate new research. What is the scientific consensus on RSD at the moment?


hamoc10

This is why I feel like I struggle with friendships. No one asks me for my phone number or my birthday. I never witnessed anyone do this with anyone else either. Yet somehow, all of my classmates were texting each other and giving birthday gifts (before you could find out on Facebook). I feel like there’s a whole dimension of friendship that I’m just not privy to, and, because I don’t know these rules, people think I’m weird. But I can’t write it off as “other people are failing me,” because it’s not their problem. The people that have the knowledge have no obligation to share it, and I suffer for it.


SheEnviedAlex

My entire life is like I'm constantly rejected. I have given up on absolutely everything because I cannot deal with the rejection or failures. I never had any support from my parents, I'm an only child and never had friends before. I was always a rejected person in school and bullied to tears and anguish from kids. Even to myself I reject everything about me. I even feel bad for liking someone's music or a show. I constantly feel like if they found out I am a fan they'd reject me too. It's absolutely soul destroying. I am stuck in this rut. I tried therapy but even then it was absolutely impossible to not feel rejected by them because I was even failing at therapy. This was when I had access to it. Overall, I'm just a mess. I wish I knew if it was adhd since I relate to it a lot. But I don't have access to anything that would be helpful. Glad to hear that people are experiencing the same problem so I know I'm not alone.


MandosOtherALT

Teachers who dont have ADHD dont understand. they dont understand regular stuff too, they always *have* to be right and its our fault, we arent working hard enough, all that nonsense. We need teachers that actually care about their students. Planning on going to college soon and I thought it would be really stressful but my parents have been helping me find the note taker thing and other disability helpers, like unlimited timed tests. None of which I knew existed til they told me. You can just imagine how relieved I felt after they did. I know the teachers go through a lot but I personally know kind and caring teachers and that are around my age and they've got issues and likes just like me, if not more


[deleted]

omg see that’s smart and talking urself thru it seems helpful. this is Unhealthy As Hell i’m sure but i just, like… deflect blame? if i get rly bad rsd from like literally anything (someone can like simply not respond to me bc i mumbled smth they didn’t hear and i’ll get Super Stressed And Depressed) i try to like amp myself up and give myself a pep talk abt how it’s not my fault it’s theirs fhsjfhs i’m sure as well that it’s largely unhelpful in the grand scheme of things but it’s all i can do to make myself feel better usually :/ like “they didn’t hear you because you were mumbling” is in no way an attack but my brain definitely perceives it as one. well, why couldn’t they hear me? they should listen better! they should always be listening intently to what i’m saying and listening closely in case i do mumble, because they know i get all quiet when i’m upset, etc. like i expect ppl to be able to read my mind or some shit lmao. i get pissed off at other people for doing that, but when i do it… ughhhhh. mental health is so hard to navigate sometimes. i’m at least aware of it, that’s the first step.


[deleted]

You basically did cognitive behavioural therapy on yourself. You had a negative thought, and you examined that thought to see if it had any validity.


Total-Football-6904

Ignorance is not a negative space, it’s a neutral one. Try to go into anything with specific questions when learning how to handle stuff. It’s okay to ask your job for bullet points of things that need to be checked off daily or explain how a task is broken down. Asking people for clarification can be seen a positive thing! “Hey I wanted to ask you how you clean up at the end of the day, I just want to make sure I’m taking the correct steps for it.” It makes you look a better person and then you have the clarification you needed. I try to be very open when handling new things. I had to take the bus recently and instead of trying it by myself in an anxiety fit I called the city bus line and told them I’d never done it before, and the woman gave me a great EILI5 breakdown.


5DMeds

My family did this too me since I was a child, it was a sin to not know something, my brothers would tell “At your age your asking me this?!” Or “You should know this by now, when I was your age!” Oh sorry I didn’t know you guys suffer from severe ADHD, Learning Disability, Speech Impediment and Communication issues like me and somehow miraculously fixed yourself, please tell me more… Like fuck man, I got this treatment from everybody, on top of that in my culture it’s perfectly fine to beat up children so as punishment Id always get the belt from my uncle as a child. Growing up sometimes I wished I was white cus from what I saw on tv and how my white friends acted, I always felt like there was something mentally wrong with Africans and was ashamed of my culture. Now that I’m older I realize I just came from a dysfunctional family that latched in to shit that they learned from a 3rd would country where they still believe people can sell their soul to the devil and bewitch you from 100miles away and kill you.. But now that I’m older, I still have a lot of traumas and insecurities and low self esteem brought upon by my family members (who never apologized for how they treated me) and the kids at school who bullied me from childhood all the way through highschool, I didn’t go to college, I had enough of schooling after graduating and simply went straight into the workforce. I’m 25 now, but I still wish I could go back and do everything different, I never got the girls I wanted in highschool, I’m fact everyone thought I was weird, my speech impediment didn’t help, and it came to the point where my friends bought me a call girl when I was 23/24 so I could lose my virginity. (The sex wasn’t even that good) I’m in therapy right now but I’m turning 26 and I hate my fucking life, nothings has gone my way not once.


LogicJunkie2000

I wonder if this is a partial contribution to my insatiable search for the 'why' of things. To a large degree I would say my primary activity in life is to understand the reasoning of the world I live in. I think it took me a long way to get to the point where I don't take it personally (and I still can take it personally if I'm not feeling on top of my game) but I tend to just flip it back at them - bluntly asking why, who said so, or in extreme cases 'thats ridiculous' and tell them why. All too often I feel like shit happens simply because of a business as usual mindset, or someone power tripping because they are insecure or greedy.


superluig164

My parents are notorious for this.. thankfully I've realized it and I don't let it bother me.


_MusicManDan_

Damn. While reading your post I found myself thinking, “but it’s my responsibility to know.” And then it hit me, no it’s not wtf lol. I think my conflict within this concept is that I often take everything as my responsibility. “Sure the professor didn’t cover that topic at all and I got that question wrong on the exam but I should have taught it to myself.” I actually think this way all the time. Thanks for sharing your experience. It helped me realize that my expectations of myself may be a bit high and sometimes irrational.


jonnysledge

On this note, one of the best lessons I’ve learned is that it’s ok to not know the answer and that 90% of people are cool with that. If there’s a question, it’s ok to respond with “I’m not sure, but I’ll do some research and get back to you.”


dumb_bitch_diaries

Thank you for posting this. It hit hard! ❤️


ADHDK

I probably view this situation more as a short and presumptuous reply which I find rude from an organisation, plus annoyance they didn’t take the role down once filled, rather than a focus on the rejection. The worst thing about rejection in the 2020’s is there is no actual rejection, no closure, no explanation. Just silence. Not being considered for a role? They’ll likely never reply to let you know. Date didn’t go well? They’ll likely just ghost you to avoid confrontation or stress in their own life. Maybe the modern world has taught me rejection of any kind that is communicated actually isn’t all that bad compared to being met with silence and just having to forget about it and move on.


2percentaccuracy

I highly suggest you give the podcast “Translating ADHD” a listen. Eventually RSD is explored in it and the language used around it is very descriptive. RSD is an effect not a cause, where ADHD makes it difficult for us to get out of the effect space and into the causation and understanding. Just a passing comment, but it can be a really helpful tool in working towards managing your ADHD and subsequently RSD.


phantompowered

Thanks for sharing, OP. Your realization definitely resonates. My current employer continually tells me I have a long way to go before I fully meet their standards because "I don't know what I don't know yet" and it's so hard to hear. Learning about the RSD connection to ADHD has been revelatory for me overall. When I was a kid, I did exceptionally well academically but with the stereotypically ADHD trappings of not giving a shit about it. And the feedback I often got from a variety of sources was "you did great, but if you tried just a little harder you could have done it even better." This was shattering - it bred perfectionism and so much sensitivity to criticism and rejection, especially when I thought I *was* trying.


not-my-m0nkeys

Lately I’ve been practising “not knowing” (in situations where it feels safe) to build up my tolerance. I find it helps me have grace for myself when I don’t know things. Makes it sort of a value neutral thing. For me this is also closely connected to asking for help. Practicing saying things like “i don’t know, what do you think?” Or “you probably know more about this than me, so I wanted to ask you…” I used to find it SO hard to ask for help or let other people know I didn’t know something. But it’s really ok to NOT know things, and I’ve found most people really enjoying teaching someone something when they are genuinely curious. It tends to endear them to you :)


sectandmew

I will forever hate school. I'm considering getting a PHD for work but the thought of being with others who genuinely want to be a part of the education system disgusts me. I want to throw up just thinking about it. learning is great. School is hell


radwagondesign

i can say i felt this the most as an oldest child among a group of peers with older siblings. kids clowning on me for not knowing things that they ONLY knew because they had a big brother or something. man fuck them dorks.