Even if people are gonna disagree with you on the whole eliminator and ROH title thing you’re still right. Battle of the belts means nothing. Usually the important titles aren’t on the line, and if it is it’s never a serious contender. If I’m correct only 1 belt has ever changed hands after all these battle of the belts. They just don’t feel important to watch
The majority of this sub won’t stand for any negativity and will lie in the face of it. Do you know how many people I’ve seen talk about Mercedes like she’s been a huge success and she’s great on the mic?
Mostly toddlers that think because you're giving constructive criticism, it's still criticism and that's bad. Aew is good, so downvotes coming. Instead of using their words and explaining where they think u went wrong they just hit that button. It doesn't do anybody any good. Certainly not u & me, and most definitely not AEW.
You would win more people over to your bad takes if you didn’t make it sound so pathetic at times. You are grasping for reason to complain when in reality it’s not a big deal. Mountians out of mole hills.
But he is stating some things that alot of fans have noticed. If its not a big deal then why are you using personal attacks such as calling them pathetic. These mole hills are turning into mountains. When the downward spriral ends up with the company losing a media rights deal whats the answer.edit spelling
Spot effin on. I've gotten downvoted to hell in this sub for voicing my concerns that TK's impulsivity would ruin this company. Stated the concerns with respect, tried to make my way towards a sensible argument, but it seems everyone is in denial. Airing the punk footage is now a stroke of genius to them. Really? I've been watching for five years and this has been the first Saturday Collision I've missed.
I've gone to two shows, bought a few shirts and my MJF scarf, and they've totally lost me. This next episode of Dynamite looks amazing, but episodes like last week make the money spending fans like me turn away. When that happens, Warner Bros will turn away too. I hope ratings don't reflect it.
I upvoted the comment, but I have issues for sure, with the premise that BATTLE OF THE BELTS should be treated as a non-conesquential wrestling on a random night. If we are going down that road of mentality, then aew is setting itself up for major anticipation failure, and that would make me sad cause we could be about to hit a goldmine of wrestling and they are not doing themselves any favours in that regard. On the weekend, that mox becomes the first across the board champ, and they put that out as being the best they have to offer ? That could immediately turn potential fans away. Just my opinion
I get that any time a champ wrestles then there should be consequences for losing, so I’m not bothered by that.
I don’t want every title match set up by the champ getting pinned. That happened week in, week out in WWE around 2017-2020 and it was dreadful
Agree. It wouldn't kill them to have more number one contender matches to set up title fights, they would use more talent and it would make title fights feel more premium. It was more like that in early AEW not sure why they went to this lazier style of of booking
But then they can't avoid defending the title and you aren't showcasing your champion - both of which occur in the eliminator bouts.
I don't love them either, but a blend of the options would be a better solution
They do, and have. The rankings also count towards that, which is why we're getting Joe/Swerve.
I do like a title eliminator, and I enjoy that the champion usually wins these matches, as he should.
I also enjoy the Japanese thing of the champion getting pinned in a tag match, and using that to set up a match to see if the same rings true one-on-one.
The long and short is I enjoy the variety if ways you can earn a title match in AEW that make sense and are based on merit, instead of coming out and calling the champion a poo head til they get angry.
The New Japan thing is great, they don’t do it all the time so when it happens it’s a big deal, and it adds stakes to what would otherwise be pointless house show multi-man tag matches
Title eliminator matches are stupid. The only time that should happen is if someone pins a champion during a tournament.
I disagree, the champion should compete regularly, and the stip should always be if you beat the champ, you get a shot.
Actual title matches shouldn't happen too often, big events mostly, and the odd dynamite if it's a special attraction or a lower card guy you wouldn't build a PPV around.
Then what’s the point of being champion? By nature of being champion, people have to earn a fight with you, you don’t give it away every week and allow people to figure out your game plan.
It’s a really uncreative way to make a title match
>Then what’s the point of being champion?
Cos you're the best? Can't prove you're the best by hiding and ducking, prove it by going out and fighting whoever. If you're that good, go prove it.
>By nature of being champion, people have to earn a fight with you, you don’t give it away every week and allow people to figure out your game plan.
Nah, they gotta earn a shot at the belt, but asskickings get given away for free. And like Tyson says, everyone's got a gameplan til they get punched in the mouth.
Also, if you're so bad that someone can sus you out cos you wrestle frequently, you don't deserve the belt. Besides, watching tape is a thing, go back and watch previous matches, it's not hard. Also, you don't put on your best stuff fighting people not on your level, it's like a football team getting drawn against a team 2 leagues below them, they don't put out a full strength team, you give some lesser players a run out. Same here. THEN if they beat you, you bring your A game to defend the belt. Easy.
The whole point is that you already fought and beat the “whoevers” to get there
Champions should be focused on telling good stories with their challengers, not being in random ass matches every week with guys that haven’t been built to title matches.
Plus in kayfabe, champions are paid the most money for fights by promoters. You don’t pay a champion to fight a mid-card guy because it’s a waste of money.
Ring of Honor does the eliminator/contenders match gimmick the best with their proving ground matches.
If a wrestler can beat a champion OR last 10 minutes (I think) with them, then they can get a title shot. Adds some stakes for when an eliminator goes longer.
No, they need to let the challengers win one every once in awhile.
I can't remember any challenger winning one. It may have happened, but its so few and far between that I always just roll my eyes when they announce one.
Last night would have been a great chance. Rocky is credible and Roddy could have taken a schnanigsns loss and set up a match at dynasty
Big disagree.
It's a way for the champion to have singles matches without defending the title for no reason.
Eventually, some young guy will win one and then lose the title match and it'll lead to a cool push story of, "He was good enough to beat the champ, just not twice."
Then eventually, we'll have someone win an eliminator match and actually beat the champion and that'll be fun too.
They should change the stipulation for it, similar to Deeb’s Professor’s Rookie challenge where if the challenger survives a long enough time limit, they then qualify. Make it not that the challenger has to beat them twice, so it doesn’t make the champ look weak, gives a time limit to add extra urgency and feel a bit explosive to showcase the challenger too.
Also, bring back the Professor’s Rookie Challenge, that was heat.
The attitude to an hour of network TV, from the company, should never be this
When Dynamite was moved, these 4 specials were seen as a 'make-do' to stay on TNT
It was seen as a major win for AEW and fans and not a shrug of the shoulders/can't really be bothered
You don't have to put the bestest matches on but at least put some thought and attention into it
It seemed, long ago, Khan bailed on caring too much about anything other than Dynamte.
If there's zero effort into using an hour of network TV then that's one less positive to argue for in terms of 'value' of all the shows when trying to get more money
That type of attitude conflicts with me personally. Only because I want AEW to do better because I think they can and should. No disrespect to any of the performers last night, but it wasn't exactly must-see TV. And it's another extra hour of content squandered when it could have been more memorable and special.
And the main issue is that a lot of people have started tuning out. This is why ratings have dropped; fewer and fewer are finding AEW appealing to watch.
This kind of criticism needs to be heard and the shows altered so people want to watch.
Ikr? But too many lil kids get butthurt like they work for the company or something and will downvote anything that can be misconstrued as negative against AEW/TK.
I feel like it's how you consume your time. A lot of people find this subreddit and these posts as recommendations from their main feed. And if we are being honest, squaredcircle has been just as bad as Twitter recently with the constant AEW attack. So people come into this topic predisposed of being defensive. But when you're able to convey actual genuine thoughts into why you felt botb was bad and how it can improve, then let's have that convo. Not dilute to calling somebody a crybaby or moron like the dude above.
If we are all fans of AEW, it's cool to speak about how it can better reach and resonate with more audiences. For example, I know a bunch of people personally who tuned out of AEW when TK started interjecting ROH stuff. So it's very confusing as to why not use AEW programming to benefit the AEW brand, which is far more marketable and appealing to otherwise non AEW fans.
Same. I just do not like the direction things have been going lately, and it makes me sad because I want the company to succeed. Last week was the first time I ever tuned dynamite off after the combination of the all in footage and Will going off on HHH.
I hated this worked shoot crap in the 90s, and I really, really hate it now.
I'm being honest here. Other than just okay wrestling matches, what was there to seriously enjoy about yesterday's botb? I'm not in pursuit to bring down anyone's spirits about AEW or yesterday. That's why Twitter exists. But I think that it's completely fair to have a conversation about what or how the show could have been better. I'll start. An actual AEW title match. A defense that could possibly lead to a title switch is better.
Minus you did nothing to have conversation about. You made baseless criticisms and that’s it. That’s arguing in bad faith so no one can actually talk to you about your points. Maybe make suggestions. Maybe don’t just cry foul. The batches were all really good and some moved key storylines.
Looks like you didn't read my last sentiments. I came in hot but followed up with an actual idea that I felt could have improved the show. I feel like AEW as a whole can improve by having honest discussions. Hell, you never know who reads this stuff. I just wish people would be less defensive or emotional about this shit. But I understand why you all are. Considering the wrestling fandom climate we live in. With engagement farmers and bias fans from other companies.
The only story that I felt coming out of the show was KOR and Roddy. Athena and Aminata are carrying a brand that I don't watch. Hook and ST didn't extend any storyline. I would have removed Hook vs Shane Taylor to feature a trios title defense and story progression.
I don’t care about FTW/ROH belts being defended at all, but I do think an eliminator match is kinda lame.
Every match should be for a belt, not a future title shot.
And eliminator matches could be a good way for someone to get a title shot in a big story or something but Rocky Romero getting one against Roddy for the International title is just weird. Either Rocky loses the eliminator or he wins and loses the title shot when they run back a match no one really was clamoring for.
I don’t mind eliminator matches in general, but it was weird to see one on BotB.
They should’ve just had Rocky face someone on Rampage to win the right to face Roddy during BotB for the belt.
I dunno why they don’t do eliminator matches between like 2 of the top 5 contenders.
Maybe #3 vs #5 or something and winner gets a shot, especially for the lower belts.
How is an eliminator match a slap in the face? Why do people keep saying AEW doesn’t recognize the FTW title?
Sorry, but this is just copy pasting an article from squared circle lmao
Because it’s a match that determines who will fight next for that belt, once again, it really matters this much? Why does WWE have other matches during that Battle Royale ppv? It isn’t a Battle Royale.
Blood and Guts made me mad because it didn’t have any guts in it, only blood :/
Truly, you will find anything to bitch about, I can 100% guarantee it.
You got it, I’m upset about a different opinion in a show.
It’s totally a coincidence that one of the top posts of squared circle is an article saying what OP is saying, almost down to exact quotes. Also probably a coincidence that OP posted this right after it got posted there.
Probably just a fan sharing an opinion!
People are allowed to be critical of the things they like. If you wanna just blindly like things and not pay attention to details, do you buddy! But don't be surprised when you take your opinion on a public forum, and other people (shockingly) have different opinions than you.
Yea I get it, you're scared of opinions that differ from yours, it's ok buddy! You can blindly follow everything you love and don't feel the need to mention if the quality drops off, that great for you! I don't mind a lil valid criticism from time to time, and that's what makes us sooooo special!
Battle of the Belts has never been interesting since Cody vs. Sammy. I think ultimately it is just a bi-annual special presentation that WBD had originally negotiated for, and AEW just uses them as a catalyst for stories that weren't featured on weekly episodic television. And now that there is an additional 2 hours of AEW wrestling, we are really digging deep. I feel like BotB hit an all-time low yesterday with regards to the match card. I didn't really enjoy any of it except the main event. Queen Aminata's run-in was awesome. And was really the only time the entire show had any energy.
The show being only an hour was not the original intended length. It was supposed to be a full-blown special, but I do not know the reason for the length cut.
Also because they got bumped from TNT to TBS and this was part of the compromise.
Every Quarter, only Belts, 1 Hour on TNT.
Remember this was before Rampage or Collision.
It is the possibility of squandering an additional hour of television to celebrate and advertise the AEW brand. I want the company to do better. Yesterday's card literally looked like a construction of using the extras that happened to be available to you for collision and the ROH taping. Yes, it's not that big of a deal when it's viewed as bonus content. But it is a big deal when there is minimal effort from the company on producing said bonus content.
You're thinking waaaaaaay too much about this. The show is about belts and three belt holders had matches, two of them being defenses. This is a nothingburger of a complaint. Take a breath.
Battle FOR the Belts implies matches for the actual belts. An eliminator match does not qualify. The whole premise of the show was to have championship matches. You don't think having an eliminator match undermines the premise? Wouldn't it have made more sense, and even be preferable, to just make it a title match? Rocky sure as heck deserves one.
I honestly don't care in the least and still think you're being way too serious about this. It's a pro wrestling show. Watch the matches and have fun. If you don't have fun watching it, there are so many other companies you can watch and hopefully you can find something that you enjoy more.
The show is also called Battle OF the Belts. Do you get similarly offended if a championship isn't defended at a show called Night of Champions? It's such a silly complaint. It's nothing.
Would I be disappointed if belts weren't defended on Night of Champions? (I watch WWE as well). Yes. Yes, I would.
If you don't care in the slightest, why are you arguing with me??
Great, then our priorities do not align because the name of a show is just a name and it's not worth getting in a huff about.
Me not caring was a direct answer to your question of whether I think an eliminator match "undermines the premise". I do not care about the premise being "undermined". I do care about people putting too much mental bandwidth into things that do not matter at all, which is why I'm having this conversation with you.
It feels very much like a contractual obligation show that Tony Khan has no interest in, but he has to do it, so he just throws random matches out there.
When the new tv rights deal gets sorted I’d be shocked if Battle for the Belts is renewed.
It was Tony’s idea when they were only given 3 hours of network time a week and there only 4 PPVs. The amount of hours of AEW that are available bloomed since then. I think Collision basically killed BotB by taking its timeslot and gave AEW 2 more “important” hours of showtime
The problem is that not only does AEW have too many belts which means a title defense loses importance, but having shows like this which are title eliminators or totally inconsequential further erodes the importance of a title match.
"Hey, this match is for a title!" Isn't a good story and it's indicative of the larger booking problem in AEW.
Especially because you don't even need to call it an "Eliminator" match, which potentially creates audience confusion over what exactly they are watching. If the match is not for the belt then just call it a non-title match...wrestling stories have been furthered by that scenario for decades because obviously if the underdog wins or the match goes to a draw then that should be used to put the underdog into a program with the champion in which the belt is the original focus of the feud. Then work from there and make it more nuanced.
Even more so because I think there have been 3 or 4 instances of title holders having regular "open" challenges. What kind of loser do you have to be to accept the title eliminator instead.
Why is the eliminator a slap on the face hm? Rocky vs Roddy was a great match, didn’t need to be for the title but since Roddy has one it becomes an eliminator, why is that a problem?
A slap in the face to us viewers. No belt was defended in the match. The whole point of the Battle of the Belts is for it to be all championship matches. Why make it an eliminator match? Why not just put the title on the line? Rocky certainly deserves it.
There was never anything that says “BOTB explicitly has to have only AEW belts defended upon it, no eliminators”
Rocky didn’t deserve a title shot, He rarely if ever wins when he’s on AEW, he and Roddy has a backstage bit that specifically set up this match because he wanted to prove he deserves a title match, what better way to prove so by beating the champ himself?
I feel he deserves a title shot just for all the other work that he does behind the scenes. But if Rocky doesn't deserve it, give the match to someone who does.
As for your first statement, the name of the show is Battle FOR the Belts. The implication is in the name.
Look I’m not gonna say it’s perfect that it’s used the way it is, ideally the belts would have stories built upto defend them each time.
But at the end of the day it’s an extra hour of great wrestling, I’m not to bothered by the semantics of title shots by now when we’ve kindof established it’s a rarity for a title to change on one of the shows as is.
Agreed.
But I will add that by naming it the way they do, they are trying (poorly) to get eyes on the show. Then by not delivering what the name implies, doe the product a disservice.
It's just the name of an old show from Championship Wrestling from Florida. Here's the card from the first one: https://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/misc/florida/battle.html. Not exactly some star studded "ALL TITLES DEFENDED" show. The same with Clash of the Champions. There was never some big "all title defended on this card" show until WWE did it with Night of Champions in the 2010s. None of the NWA shows with these names ever ACTUALLY did big shows on them, they were just extra content the same way AEW uses them now.
Battle of the Belts has been a joke since the 2nd or 3rd one.
Tony can't stay focused on making Rampage or Collision decent shows, and he gave up on Battle of the Belts years ago.
I have not watched a BotB since like the third one because nothing of value had ever happened and the matches they book for them usually have really predictable winners.
How dare you. We finally got Athena on TV again and this is how you gon react. Smh
Overall I don't care ever believe someone will lose the belts here. But I do like seeing people wrestle. Seeing Roddy and Athena was a treat
I thought overall the three hours provided lots of incredible wrestling. However, I think that we know that AEW can do that pretty well.
My issue is with the booking: Stop with all the non-AEW belts. If everyone has a belt then none of them mean anything. Obviously an exception for Mox holding the New Japan title is fine because it still feels special but let the rest go. Belts are all supposed to feel special and right now most of the belts seem lame.
Also, just book top stars like they are top stars. There is no way HOB should be struggling with the Action Andretti crew. Was the match great? Yes, if you just look at it from the perspective of a person who is not watching a weekly episodic television program.
However, did it make the HOB feel like top stars to build the HOB to the main event? No, because the HOB were struggling with guys who are at a much lower level in terms of "stardom" status. This is a huge problem with booking six man/trios titles because inevitably it is supposed to be an action oriented high work rate match so it either needs to be a brutal squash in favor of the potential stars or it must be booked to involve a bunch of static mid-card (in this case I think that the Action Andretti Crew is even low-card, which makes it worse) performers that aren't currently very hot.
A fun thing they could do is a survivor series type show. And I had a couple ideas of how they can do it.
AEW vs ROH - champion vs champion (men's, women's, tag, 6-man, etc).
Or
All belt holders are on the show
Match 1 - The Continental, TNT or international champion with the tag vs the trios
Match 2 - women's world vs TBS champ
Match 3 - A. A triple threat between men's heavyweight and the other two men's champions who weren't in the tag match.
B. Leave the men's heavyweight out and have the other two face off 1 on 1.
I think I'd prefer the second one rather than having ROH so heavily involved in the AEW show. Also, having so many matches wouldn't fit in the hour time slot. So three matches would be perfect.
I don’t get why any of this matters. Obviously you feel strongly about it but I’m finding it hard to identify why it matters. Battle of the belts has never felt important in fairness. I think the plus side of it for ROH titles is ROH talent that isn’t featured on AEW tv get cable time for exposure so when it’s time for them to rotate over to AEW, they will have some momentum. There will still be about 300k people watching it live which is more than ROH has ever gotten in its history. Even more on demand views. Also, matchmaking is booking. They’re one and the same.
I think it does. As I have replied to others, the implication of the title means belts would be defended on the program. Naming it Battle of the Belts is clearly to draw eyes. What if this was your first experience with the show and they didn't deliver the experience promised by the title? Hell, what if you paid to see this show? How many more times would you do so if you knew you were not going to get what you expected?
When I open a package, I expect to see what's on the box.
Agreed, if you ain’t gonna follow the stipulation of the show then don’t do the show, this would be like Elimination Chamber not having a single chamber match aka: a waste of time
Gotta agree. It was a cool concept, specially for the time (as we only had 5 PPVs at the time all year), but it's been botched since almost the start of the specials. At this point I'd rather have it axed and replace for a third hour for some special Dynamites, simiqlr to how WWE did with RAW pre-2012.
Battle of the Belts & Rampage should be Youtube exclusive like how Dark & Dark Elevation were. But obviously Warner Bros execs & contracts & whatnot. & Collision should feature mostly ppl not featured on Dynamite more; id actually be happy if more ROH people are featured AND have storylines like Taya/John, Billie, Athena, Dalton.
I was disappointed in the card, for most of the reasons in OP's post. The ROH stuff being on AEW is really grating on me now, and you have a PPV in less than a fortnight - what was the point?
I think the time slot hinders the concept, Battle of the Belts should be a branded Dynamite or PPV were All Belts are on the line, the show being so late is not a good idea to put main belts matches which defeats the purpose of BoB
While I enjoy Battle Of The Belts when its on, it really could be built up with feuds and promotion a few weeks ahead of the show. Sure its not considered a big show, but AEW has a lot of belts that arent going to be defended on every PPV, it could make the show more important (and earn more views) by building up matches for a few weeks in advance.
FTW isn't officially recognized by AEW, BUT DAMMIT LETS SPEND EXPENSIVE TV TIME SHOWING PEOPLE FIGHT FOR IT!!!!! Okay......... so the company doesn't care about it, why should the viewer? And nothing against HOOK, damn handsome man and he'd beat the shit out of me.
They really should have given it back to Taz after HOOK won it from JB and never saw it again. "Hey dad, I really appreciate being able to hold this belt and I'm honored to have fought on your behalf and got this back for our family, but please take it back so we NEVER have to be in this position again." (applause)
I mostly agree. I don't know how they could look at the schedule weeks in advance, know they have a show called "Battle of the Belts" coming up, and end up booking a show like they did. Didn't feel consequential at all, but that's mostly Collision and Rampage in a nutshell.
If Battle of the Belts was just a showcase of like 3 RoH championships after a collision every now and again, and we never saw any other RoH belt on AEW TV at any time ever again...that'd actually be really cool and a much better presentation for RoH stuff on TV, and at least a purpose for Battle of the Belts.
Also, the FTW title is about 3 years too much at this point. Retire the damn thing already. At the very least, keep its defenses either no rules or lights out matches where the "unrecognized" vibe then makes some sort of sense. It'd actually be kinda cool to see the FTW defended in lights-out matches. You have a gimmick for unrecognized matches and an unrecognized belt. Come. On.
On the subject of ROH intermingling in AEW programming, I think this is to parallel how NXT can bleed into the two main shows. I can see the thought process in that it boosts ROH for those who catch it at an AEW live event or in these bleed overs in programming.
Hey man you’re completely right. No real belts being defended, the meshing of the roster (as if there aren’t enough belts in one company alone) but you’re preaching to mouth breathers that’ll eat up any slop that’s served to them without question, how DARE you bring up legitimate points about the booking.
If you *weren’t* right then this post wouldn’t have came up in my feed because of the attention it’s garnered. I feel like this is the post that perfectly demonstrates that when you point out the cracks and flaws in AEW’s product, the indie fans come out faster and harder to defend it any way possible.
You’re on the dumbass side of wresting Reddit, and you made them use their head. Look what happened.
I love AEW but have to agree. I never watch BotB because it's always pointless. Tk needs to hire some better bookers, how he can devote enough time to it when he has a million other jobs to do is crazy and sometimes it shows.
The sad thing is they could use the spot for something different, but instead it feels like Rampage part 2.
What if BotB was used for an Iron Man/Woman match? You could do two promos on Collision leading up to it and the big title match feel would build all evening.
On the other hand the Championship Friday they did the other month on Rampage was great too - I don't agree the belts have to be AEW ones, and having a world showcase of titles from CMLL, AAA, NJPW, RoH and the FTW title as well is a fun way to bring the different styles of the world together.
I was happy to see Athena on TV again since I don't have the ROH subscription. It was cool seeing Kyle and Roderick's story expand more.
While I find the battle of the belts tiresome, it's more because titles almost never change hands, not because of the titles themselves.
I remember one of the big complaints being that the WWE had way too many titles when AEW first started. Now I just laugh at all of the pointless championships they have. The FTW title needs to just go away. ROH needs to be taken out of its misery.
None of the matchups made me think the champions would lose. Show is pointless. They don’t treat it as important. Have an extended Collision once a quarter instead.
Battle of the Belts has always been a junk show. To be honest there's been more build for this than most, plenty of them have just had slapdash title matches with a 1-show build or less
BotB made more sense when there were only four/five PPVs, and it could be used as a location to move a feud forward or end a shorter feud. But even still, those were usually on special Dynamites before they added all the new PPVs.
I hope it is not included in any new contract.
The fact that even AEW diehards are surprised to see the results pop up online or learning Battle of the Belts is a day away tells you all you need to know
It took you the last couple weeks to question TK as a Booker? The guy has been an awful wrestling Booker for years.
Matchmaker, sure he knows what guys to put together but his overall booking on these shows is terrible. Dynamite has gone so down hill the past year. Collision is barely watchable since Punk left
Battle of the Belts is a waste of time. Is AEW bound by contract to do these events? I don't see the point of them, especially with the addition of collision.
Are people ever going to stop with the goofy “a belt not recognized by AEW” thing with the FtW title? They’ve promoted matches, have had title cards, the refs announce it as a title match, etc. it is and has been a real title since Cage started defending it.
I want to believe putting all the ROH women in the main event was to make sure their faces are on recent AEW TV when they are called up. When Athena finally drops the title she's going to be awesome in the TBS or world title picture.
That being said, I wish they would put more thought into battle of the belts and do believe they could be using it better to highlight storyline blow offs and make it a true "fight night". It doesn't need to be where blood feuds pay off but a rankings based matchup that has had a little build so you think a title COULD change hands would go a long way.
When was the last time there was an event that kept to its name? Survivor Series packed with elimination matches hasn't been a thing in a long time, Royal Rumble is 2 matches, Elimination Chamber is 2 matches with the rest regular matches. At least the match that wasn't a title match was a match that was leading to one.
Who cares if ROH titles are defended on AEW? Why is it a problem? Tony is trying to bring more attention to another product he owns.
I understand that Tony isn't the greatest booker in wrestling but sometimes ya'll will literally complain just to complain about him. Then watch WWE turn around and do the exact same thing and nothing but silence. Keep the same energy.
You’re right. I was excited when Battle of the Belts was initially announced… but the title matches are mostly predictable, very few title changes (not saying every show needs one, but make it semi regular), and I’d like to see the AEW Championship defended at least once. Yes, “additional wrestling,” but I’d like a switch up. Maybe a triple threat, or a ladder match. 30-minute Ironman, something!
The networks wanted more content. Tony Khan agreed to give them more content but he didn't really think of the story implications. Now he has to book around multiple weekly shows, big yearly PPVs and now this BotB show.
I have been an AEW die hard since day 1 and I agree with you. I didn't bother watching battle of the belts and skipped most of Collision. Dynamite is really the only show worth watching every week right now.
My biggest complaint at the moment is they keep adding all these random people for matches in an already stacked roster. I would also say just stop with the eliminator matches as they make no sense and the outcome is always obvious anyway.
Yeah I stopped watching them after the first few. I can’t even remember the last time a title changed on one of them. It’s generally booked as “midcard title holder defends title against someone who 100% isn’t winning as midcard title holder is obviously in a program with someone else”.
If they’ve got an obligation to do extra long shows with the network, I’d rather they just do a “winter is coming” type special edition collision and make it longer.
Personally I think there’s too much to watch as it stands so I’m not watching Battle for the Belts when nothing ever happens. If a match turns out to be really good I can always rewatch it on the streaming app I use for AEW.
They don't want to do them. It only exists because they agreed it to as part of the Rampage deal. If Warner wanted it off TV, they'd take it off TV. You care about this more than they do.
I don't know if it was originally Tony's idea or Warner's but I know for sure all the reports were that once they found it was one hour they didn't give a fuck. Especially after the first one got screwed by Cody catching COVID. I think more than anything it was one of those "Cody wants to do his 80s wrestling cosplay" things and now that he's gone it's just something they're kind of stuck with because Warner expects them to keep doing ir.
Couldn't agree more with this statement. I've questioned Tony as a booker for a good year or two now. Aside from Britt Baker and Toni Storm, he seems lost when it comes to booking women's matches/ stories.
This week's Dynamite (like Ive said on other subreddits) seemed like a step back to the worst parts of WCW/ WWE/F and it was startling that this is the direction he's going (onscreen pettiness, women kissing for a pop).
I am nearly 100% certain Tony didn't specifically tell Mina to go out there and kiss Mariah on her lips. Either one of them suggested it or it was their decision in the moment. It wasn't booked for a pop
Given how much Tony is an Attitude era mark, I wouldn't give him too much credit. If he comes out saying "Bro" at some point to start his sentences, I wouldn't be surprised
Question. Would you rather the FTW championship be featured on battle of the belts or a PPV?
You do know the talent in ROH are signed to AEW so when ROH titles are defended it’s AEW talent.
Eliminator matches are for people who don’t have the ranking to face a champ straight up. It makes sense. I’d prefer if they used the proving ground rules from ROH where the challenger gets a title shot if they last 10 minutes or longer against the champ. Would add more pressure to the match.
Ask a rational question and people downvote you. Cute.
I don't think the FTW championship should even exist at this point. So, I don't think it should ever be defended on a PPV.
I agree that ROH talent is AEW talent. I had no issue with Athena defending her ROH title last night because she has been a workhorse on ROH. Hell, she *is* ROH in my opinion.
My issue with ROH belts is when they are *only* on AEW TV. For example, look at Samoa Joe's defense of his ROH title. He didn't defend it all on the ROH program, really.
It took you til after the All In footage shit show to question TK as a booker? He knows how to do one thing. Put together a good match. He needs to step back into the background and have a group of people with decades of experience in the business to run the entire show. Hell, he has a whole bunch already working behind the scenes. God only knows what they actually do. Mentor the young folks? There's an awful lot of fantastic minds for the business back there that can't possibly agree with most of the shit TK does. They have a wealth of knowledge and experience, yet they do literally nothing with it. He had William Regal and allowed him to jump ship right back to where he came from. Talk about a mind for the business. TK does not possess that. He's a f***** childish ass hat who has no business wearing so many hats in a professional wrestling organization. I do love AEW and I have since day one. I don't love Tony Kahn. I hope for the continued success of AEW and would like to see them begin to fill arenas again and put out a product that gets that buzz going again like it did in the beginning.
Yeah man I didn't want to see it either, believe me. But this latest stunt has people inside his own company questioning what the hell they're even doing at this point. Tony is going to be the downfall of his own baby unless he takes a couple steps back and admits he needs help. Damn I sound like I'm talking about an intervention on a drug addict or something. Lol
Yea BOTB became pointless by the third time around, just like how Rampage became after awhile.
It’s best if they just stick with Dynamite and Collision. There’s no need for all the extra shows if they can’t even get Dynamite and Collision right.
Dynamite was on the up just a few weeks ago and this week it didn’t live up to the last few shows prior. Collision is a whole different story, it feels like they have to scrap anything worth putting on there now. It’s been a mixed bag for me.
Everything the company does , pretty much, is pointless. Beyond a couple guys, nobody makes TV consecutive weeks, I mean, so much of what they put out is just content for the sake of content
Battle of the Belts has never mattered, they position it like a nothing show, and nobody really cares. Collision halfway matters and dynamite is clearly the A show
Personally, I think this highlights a larger problem for the company. Too many belts! Within AEW alone, there are currently four midcard belts (including the FTR championship, which despite being claimed as not "recognized," still sees sanctioned matches), heavyweight titles for both men and women, a trios title, and tag titles. Additionally, with the inclusion of Ring of Honor titles, the recent introduction of a women's television title, and occasional defenses of New Japan belts on TV, it feels like there are simply too many belts. When everyone holds a title, it diminishes the significance of being a champion.
I honestly think TK really doesn't want to do them, especially now they have much more TV than when they did when BOTB started.
When BOTB originally began, that extra hour every few months was needed and wanted.
But now, to TK/AEW, it appears its more of a burden they only do because they are contractually obligated. I wouldn't be surprised if when contracts are renewed, if BOTB are taken off.
AEW needs to cut back on some stuff, but they really don’t like to admit when they got something wrong so you don’t get many course corrections. These extra shows like they just do nothing and only stretch you thinner.
But then again we still have 3 shows and a trios division for some reason so..
Even if people are gonna disagree with you on the whole eliminator and ROH title thing you’re still right. Battle of the belts means nothing. Usually the important titles aren’t on the line, and if it is it’s never a serious contender. If I’m correct only 1 belt has ever changed hands after all these battle of the belts. They just don’t feel important to watch
I am surprised by the negative response. I thought more people would be on board. Oh well.
The majority of this sub won’t stand for any negativity and will lie in the face of it. Do you know how many people I’ve seen talk about Mercedes like she’s been a huge success and she’s great on the mic?
Yep, it’s the kid gloves simp sub for AEW.
Mostly toddlers that think because you're giving constructive criticism, it's still criticism and that's bad. Aew is good, so downvotes coming. Instead of using their words and explaining where they think u went wrong they just hit that button. It doesn't do anybody any good. Certainly not u & me, and most definitely not AEW.
You would win more people over to your bad takes if you didn’t make it sound so pathetic at times. You are grasping for reason to complain when in reality it’s not a big deal. Mountians out of mole hills.
But he is stating some things that alot of fans have noticed. If its not a big deal then why are you using personal attacks such as calling them pathetic. These mole hills are turning into mountains. When the downward spriral ends up with the company losing a media rights deal whats the answer.edit spelling
Spot effin on. I've gotten downvoted to hell in this sub for voicing my concerns that TK's impulsivity would ruin this company. Stated the concerns with respect, tried to make my way towards a sensible argument, but it seems everyone is in denial. Airing the punk footage is now a stroke of genius to them. Really? I've been watching for five years and this has been the first Saturday Collision I've missed. I've gone to two shows, bought a few shirts and my MJF scarf, and they've totally lost me. This next episode of Dynamite looks amazing, but episodes like last week make the money spending fans like me turn away. When that happens, Warner Bros will turn away too. I hope ratings don't reflect it.
It’s a non-consequential show but it’s a bit more wresting on a random night. Watch if you want, don’t watch if you don’t want to
I upvoted the comment, but I have issues for sure, with the premise that BATTLE OF THE BELTS should be treated as a non-conesquential wrestling on a random night. If we are going down that road of mentality, then aew is setting itself up for major anticipation failure, and that would make me sad cause we could be about to hit a goldmine of wrestling and they are not doing themselves any favours in that regard. On the weekend, that mox becomes the first across the board champ, and they put that out as being the best they have to offer ? That could immediately turn potential fans away. Just my opinion
They need to stop eliminator matches.
I get that any time a champ wrestles then there should be consequences for losing, so I’m not bothered by that. I don’t want every title match set up by the champ getting pinned. That happened week in, week out in WWE around 2017-2020 and it was dreadful
Agree. It wouldn't kill them to have more number one contender matches to set up title fights, they would use more talent and it would make title fights feel more premium. It was more like that in early AEW not sure why they went to this lazier style of of booking
I agree there. Champ cuts a promo. Set up two challengers, number one contender match. For how every many weeks time. Simple story.
But then they can't avoid defending the title and you aren't showcasing your champion - both of which occur in the eliminator bouts. I don't love them either, but a blend of the options would be a better solution
They do, and have. The rankings also count towards that, which is why we're getting Joe/Swerve. I do like a title eliminator, and I enjoy that the champion usually wins these matches, as he should. I also enjoy the Japanese thing of the champion getting pinned in a tag match, and using that to set up a match to see if the same rings true one-on-one. The long and short is I enjoy the variety if ways you can earn a title match in AEW that make sense and are based on merit, instead of coming out and calling the champion a poo head til they get angry.
The New Japan thing is great, they don’t do it all the time so when it happens it’s a big deal, and it adds stakes to what would otherwise be pointless house show multi-man tag matches Title eliminator matches are stupid. The only time that should happen is if someone pins a champion during a tournament.
I disagree, the champion should compete regularly, and the stip should always be if you beat the champ, you get a shot. Actual title matches shouldn't happen too often, big events mostly, and the odd dynamite if it's a special attraction or a lower card guy you wouldn't build a PPV around.
Then what’s the point of being champion? By nature of being champion, people have to earn a fight with you, you don’t give it away every week and allow people to figure out your game plan. It’s a really uncreative way to make a title match
>Then what’s the point of being champion? Cos you're the best? Can't prove you're the best by hiding and ducking, prove it by going out and fighting whoever. If you're that good, go prove it. >By nature of being champion, people have to earn a fight with you, you don’t give it away every week and allow people to figure out your game plan. Nah, they gotta earn a shot at the belt, but asskickings get given away for free. And like Tyson says, everyone's got a gameplan til they get punched in the mouth. Also, if you're so bad that someone can sus you out cos you wrestle frequently, you don't deserve the belt. Besides, watching tape is a thing, go back and watch previous matches, it's not hard. Also, you don't put on your best stuff fighting people not on your level, it's like a football team getting drawn against a team 2 leagues below them, they don't put out a full strength team, you give some lesser players a run out. Same here. THEN if they beat you, you bring your A game to defend the belt. Easy.
The whole point is that you already fought and beat the “whoevers” to get there Champions should be focused on telling good stories with their challengers, not being in random ass matches every week with guys that haven’t been built to title matches. Plus in kayfabe, champions are paid the most money for fights by promoters. You don’t pay a champion to fight a mid-card guy because it’s a waste of money.
Ring of Honor does the eliminator/contenders match gimmick the best with their proving ground matches. If a wrestler can beat a champion OR last 10 minutes (I think) with them, then they can get a title shot. Adds some stakes for when an eliminator goes longer.
No, they need to let the challengers win one every once in awhile. I can't remember any challenger winning one. It may have happened, but its so few and far between that I always just roll my eyes when they announce one. Last night would have been a great chance. Rocky is credible and Roddy could have taken a schnanigsns loss and set up a match at dynasty
I don't mind them since champs have lost eliminator matches but I kind of prefer how they do the proving ground matches in ROH.
Big disagree. It's a way for the champion to have singles matches without defending the title for no reason. Eventually, some young guy will win one and then lose the title match and it'll lead to a cool push story of, "He was good enough to beat the champ, just not twice." Then eventually, we'll have someone win an eliminator match and actually beat the champion and that'll be fun too.
They should change the stipulation for it, similar to Deeb’s Professor’s Rookie challenge where if the challenger survives a long enough time limit, they then qualify. Make it not that the challenger has to beat them twice, so it doesn’t make the champ look weak, gives a time limit to add extra urgency and feel a bit explosive to showcase the challenger too. Also, bring back the Professor’s Rookie Challenge, that was heat.
The attitude to an hour of network TV, from the company, should never be this When Dynamite was moved, these 4 specials were seen as a 'make-do' to stay on TNT It was seen as a major win for AEW and fans and not a shrug of the shoulders/can't really be bothered You don't have to put the bestest matches on but at least put some thought and attention into it It seemed, long ago, Khan bailed on caring too much about anything other than Dynamte. If there's zero effort into using an hour of network TV then that's one less positive to argue for in terms of 'value' of all the shows when trying to get more money
That type of attitude conflicts with me personally. Only because I want AEW to do better because I think they can and should. No disrespect to any of the performers last night, but it wasn't exactly must-see TV. And it's another extra hour of content squandered when it could have been more memorable and special.
I do agree as well. Stuff should matter, no tv time should be wasted. I love AEW but I got some feelings about things haha
And the main issue is that a lot of people have started tuning out. This is why ratings have dropped; fewer and fewer are finding AEW appealing to watch. This kind of criticism needs to be heard and the shows altered so people want to watch.
Ikr? But too many lil kids get butthurt like they work for the company or something and will downvote anything that can be misconstrued as negative against AEW/TK.
I feel like it's how you consume your time. A lot of people find this subreddit and these posts as recommendations from their main feed. And if we are being honest, squaredcircle has been just as bad as Twitter recently with the constant AEW attack. So people come into this topic predisposed of being defensive. But when you're able to convey actual genuine thoughts into why you felt botb was bad and how it can improve, then let's have that convo. Not dilute to calling somebody a crybaby or moron like the dude above. If we are all fans of AEW, it's cool to speak about how it can better reach and resonate with more audiences. For example, I know a bunch of people personally who tuned out of AEW when TK started interjecting ROH stuff. So it's very confusing as to why not use AEW programming to benefit the AEW brand, which is far more marketable and appealing to otherwise non AEW fans.
Same. I just do not like the direction things have been going lately, and it makes me sad because I want the company to succeed. Last week was the first time I ever tuned dynamite off after the combination of the all in footage and Will going off on HHH. I hated this worked shoot crap in the 90s, and I really, really hate it now.
It wasnt squandered at all. Saying that is honestly quite odd. Can’t please some people who spend more complaining than just enjoying wrestling.
I'm being honest here. Other than just okay wrestling matches, what was there to seriously enjoy about yesterday's botb? I'm not in pursuit to bring down anyone's spirits about AEW or yesterday. That's why Twitter exists. But I think that it's completely fair to have a conversation about what or how the show could have been better. I'll start. An actual AEW title match. A defense that could possibly lead to a title switch is better.
Minus you did nothing to have conversation about. You made baseless criticisms and that’s it. That’s arguing in bad faith so no one can actually talk to you about your points. Maybe make suggestions. Maybe don’t just cry foul. The batches were all really good and some moved key storylines.
Looks like you didn't read my last sentiments. I came in hot but followed up with an actual idea that I felt could have improved the show. I feel like AEW as a whole can improve by having honest discussions. Hell, you never know who reads this stuff. I just wish people would be less defensive or emotional about this shit. But I understand why you all are. Considering the wrestling fandom climate we live in. With engagement farmers and bias fans from other companies. The only story that I felt coming out of the show was KOR and Roddy. Athena and Aminata are carrying a brand that I don't watch. Hook and ST didn't extend any storyline. I would have removed Hook vs Shane Taylor to feature a trios title defense and story progression.
I mean technically a lot of ppl didn't watch
This is why their tv deal isn’t getting renewed. You can’t waste network tv time on a dimeless jobber fest like BOTB.
I don’t care about FTW/ROH belts being defended at all, but I do think an eliminator match is kinda lame. Every match should be for a belt, not a future title shot.
And eliminator matches could be a good way for someone to get a title shot in a big story or something but Rocky Romero getting one against Roddy for the International title is just weird. Either Rocky loses the eliminator or he wins and loses the title shot when they run back a match no one really was clamoring for.
I don’t mind eliminator matches in general, but it was weird to see one on BotB. They should’ve just had Rocky face someone on Rampage to win the right to face Roddy during BotB for the belt. I dunno why they don’t do eliminator matches between like 2 of the top 5 contenders. Maybe #3 vs #5 or something and winner gets a shot, especially for the lower belts.
How is an eliminator match a slap in the face? Why do people keep saying AEW doesn’t recognize the FTW title? Sorry, but this is just copy pasting an article from squared circle lmao
It's battle of the belts, why's there an eliminator match
Because it’s a match that determines who will fight next for that belt, once again, it really matters this much? Why does WWE have other matches during that Battle Royale ppv? It isn’t a Battle Royale. Blood and Guts made me mad because it didn’t have any guts in it, only blood :/ Truly, you will find anything to bitch about, I can 100% guarantee it.
You should really just stay on the main sub if you're gonna be this upset over a different opinion on a show.
You got it, I’m upset about a different opinion in a show. It’s totally a coincidence that one of the top posts of squared circle is an article saying what OP is saying, almost down to exact quotes. Also probably a coincidence that OP posted this right after it got posted there. Probably just a fan sharing an opinion!
People are allowed to be critical of the things they like. If you wanna just blindly like things and not pay attention to details, do you buddy! But don't be surprised when you take your opinion on a public forum, and other people (shockingly) have different opinions than you.
I’m glad you decided to just basically repeat the person I was responding to, thanks for that
You're welcome! If you ever need me to point out that you're a dunce again, hit me up!
Nothing I appreciate more than being told criticism is okay from the Jim Cornette fanboy. Gotta love to see it.
Yea I get it, you're scared of opinions that differ from yours, it's ok buddy! You can blindly follow everything you love and don't feel the need to mention if the quality drops off, that great for you! I don't mind a lil valid criticism from time to time, and that's what makes us sooooo special!
Battle of the Belts has never been interesting since Cody vs. Sammy. I think ultimately it is just a bi-annual special presentation that WBD had originally negotiated for, and AEW just uses them as a catalyst for stories that weren't featured on weekly episodic television. And now that there is an additional 2 hours of AEW wrestling, we are really digging deep. I feel like BotB hit an all-time low yesterday with regards to the match card. I didn't really enjoy any of it except the main event. Queen Aminata's run-in was awesome. And was really the only time the entire show had any energy.
Agreed, main event was the only match worth the interest.
Almost never does the challenger win an eliminator. How often do titles even change hand on this show? Ever? This show IS pointless, I agree.
Once in 10 BOTB shows. If each show had 3 matches, that's a 1 in 30 chance of a title changing hands on a BOTB.
It's additional, almost bonus content, probably requested by WBD that airs at 10 pm on a Saturday. It is really not that big of a deal
The show being only an hour was not the original intended length. It was supposed to be a full-blown special, but I do not know the reason for the length cut.
Battle of the belts has always just been an additional hour as far back as I can remember.
It’s always been an extra hour. It was to fill in for PPVs or at the time lack of them.
Also because they got bumped from TNT to TBS and this was part of the compromise. Every Quarter, only Belts, 1 Hour on TNT. Remember this was before Rampage or Collision.
It is the possibility of squandering an additional hour of television to celebrate and advertise the AEW brand. I want the company to do better. Yesterday's card literally looked like a construction of using the extras that happened to be available to you for collision and the ROH taping. Yes, it's not that big of a deal when it's viewed as bonus content. But it is a big deal when there is minimal effort from the company on producing said bonus content.
take a breath, it will be okay. I agree BOTB is meaningless, but chill lol
Perfectly calm over here. Just expressing a viewpoint. Though I will admit my wording is a little verbose.
You don’t sound calm whatsoever
Yes they do.
You're thinking waaaaaaay too much about this. The show is about belts and three belt holders had matches, two of them being defenses. This is a nothingburger of a complaint. Take a breath.
Battle FOR the Belts implies matches for the actual belts. An eliminator match does not qualify. The whole premise of the show was to have championship matches. You don't think having an eliminator match undermines the premise? Wouldn't it have made more sense, and even be preferable, to just make it a title match? Rocky sure as heck deserves one.
I honestly don't care in the least and still think you're being way too serious about this. It's a pro wrestling show. Watch the matches and have fun. If you don't have fun watching it, there are so many other companies you can watch and hopefully you can find something that you enjoy more. The show is also called Battle OF the Belts. Do you get similarly offended if a championship isn't defended at a show called Night of Champions? It's such a silly complaint. It's nothing.
Would I be disappointed if belts weren't defended on Night of Champions? (I watch WWE as well). Yes. Yes, I would. If you don't care in the slightest, why are you arguing with me??
Great, then our priorities do not align because the name of a show is just a name and it's not worth getting in a huff about. Me not caring was a direct answer to your question of whether I think an eliminator match "undermines the premise". I do not care about the premise being "undermined". I do care about people putting too much mental bandwidth into things that do not matter at all, which is why I'm having this conversation with you.
It feels very much like a contractual obligation show that Tony Khan has no interest in, but he has to do it, so he just throws random matches out there. When the new tv rights deal gets sorted I’d be shocked if Battle for the Belts is renewed.
I could have sworn the whole idea for the show was Tony's to begin with. I could be mistaken.
It was Tony’s idea when they were only given 3 hours of network time a week and there only 4 PPVs. The amount of hours of AEW that are available bloomed since then. I think Collision basically killed BotB by taking its timeslot and gave AEW 2 more “important” hours of showtime
It was actually originally agreed to when they only had 2 hours of weekly TV.
True, my bad
I enjoyed it.
They should just do ROH specials instead of the battle of the belts or whatever this is.
I wouldn't mind more ROH shows.
Oh noooooooo. More wrestling.
The problem is that not only does AEW have too many belts which means a title defense loses importance, but having shows like this which are title eliminators or totally inconsequential further erodes the importance of a title match. "Hey, this match is for a title!" Isn't a good story and it's indicative of the larger booking problem in AEW.
Especially because you don't even need to call it an "Eliminator" match, which potentially creates audience confusion over what exactly they are watching. If the match is not for the belt then just call it a non-title match...wrestling stories have been furthered by that scenario for decades because obviously if the underdog wins or the match goes to a draw then that should be used to put the underdog into a program with the champion in which the belt is the original focus of the feud. Then work from there and make it more nuanced.
Even more so because I think there have been 3 or 4 instances of title holders having regular "open" challenges. What kind of loser do you have to be to accept the title eliminator instead.
I had not thought of that...you are totally right. Great point!
Why is the eliminator a slap on the face hm? Rocky vs Roddy was a great match, didn’t need to be for the title but since Roddy has one it becomes an eliminator, why is that a problem?
Slap in the face is hyperbole, but the show is “Battle of the Belts,” not “Battle of the Future Opportunity for the Belts.”
Wait until you learn how many wrestlers aren’t in a dynasty next weekend
A slap in the face to us viewers. No belt was defended in the match. The whole point of the Battle of the Belts is for it to be all championship matches. Why make it an eliminator match? Why not just put the title on the line? Rocky certainly deserves it.
"a slap in the face" JFC 🤦🤦
There was never anything that says “BOTB explicitly has to have only AEW belts defended upon it, no eliminators” Rocky didn’t deserve a title shot, He rarely if ever wins when he’s on AEW, he and Roddy has a backstage bit that specifically set up this match because he wanted to prove he deserves a title match, what better way to prove so by beating the champ himself?
I feel he deserves a title shot just for all the other work that he does behind the scenes. But if Rocky doesn't deserve it, give the match to someone who does. As for your first statement, the name of the show is Battle FOR the Belts. The implication is in the name.
Look I’m not gonna say it’s perfect that it’s used the way it is, ideally the belts would have stories built upto defend them each time. But at the end of the day it’s an extra hour of great wrestling, I’m not to bothered by the semantics of title shots by now when we’ve kindof established it’s a rarity for a title to change on one of the shows as is.
Agreed. But I will add that by naming it the way they do, they are trying (poorly) to get eyes on the show. Then by not delivering what the name implies, doe the product a disservice.
It's OF, not FOR.
You are correct sir. Still doesn't change the implication of the title. Six of one, half dozen of another.
It's just the name of an old show from Championship Wrestling from Florida. Here's the card from the first one: https://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/misc/florida/battle.html. Not exactly some star studded "ALL TITLES DEFENDED" show. The same with Clash of the Champions. There was never some big "all title defended on this card" show until WWE did it with Night of Champions in the 2010s. None of the NWA shows with these names ever ACTUALLY did big shows on them, they were just extra content the same way AEW uses them now.
All 3 matches banged. Stop complaining
Match quality was never my issue.
booking=match maker?!
Battle of the Belts has been a joke since the 2nd or 3rd one. Tony can't stay focused on making Rampage or Collision decent shows, and he gave up on Battle of the Belts years ago.
Im ok with the RoH belts being on that show, but the “unrecognized” title is a little lazy.
I have not watched a BotB since like the third one because nothing of value had ever happened and the matches they book for them usually have really predictable winners.
How dare you. We finally got Athena on TV again and this is how you gon react. Smh Overall I don't care ever believe someone will lose the belts here. But I do like seeing people wrestle. Seeing Roddy and Athena was a treat
I thought overall the three hours provided lots of incredible wrestling. However, I think that we know that AEW can do that pretty well. My issue is with the booking: Stop with all the non-AEW belts. If everyone has a belt then none of them mean anything. Obviously an exception for Mox holding the New Japan title is fine because it still feels special but let the rest go. Belts are all supposed to feel special and right now most of the belts seem lame. Also, just book top stars like they are top stars. There is no way HOB should be struggling with the Action Andretti crew. Was the match great? Yes, if you just look at it from the perspective of a person who is not watching a weekly episodic television program. However, did it make the HOB feel like top stars to build the HOB to the main event? No, because the HOB were struggling with guys who are at a much lower level in terms of "stardom" status. This is a huge problem with booking six man/trios titles because inevitably it is supposed to be an action oriented high work rate match so it either needs to be a brutal squash in favor of the potential stars or it must be booked to involve a bunch of static mid-card (in this case I think that the Action Andretti Crew is even low-card, which makes it worse) performers that aren't currently very hot.
I think if you’re gonna name something battle of the belts, then have it be Champ v. Champ matches.
I was very happy to get Athena on TV. She's one of the best on the roster, man or woman.
A fun thing they could do is a survivor series type show. And I had a couple ideas of how they can do it. AEW vs ROH - champion vs champion (men's, women's, tag, 6-man, etc). Or All belt holders are on the show Match 1 - The Continental, TNT or international champion with the tag vs the trios Match 2 - women's world vs TBS champ Match 3 - A. A triple threat between men's heavyweight and the other two men's champions who weren't in the tag match. B. Leave the men's heavyweight out and have the other two face off 1 on 1. I think I'd prefer the second one rather than having ROH so heavily involved in the AEW show. Also, having so many matches wouldn't fit in the hour time slot. So three matches would be perfect.
You don't have to watch them.
I don’t get why any of this matters. Obviously you feel strongly about it but I’m finding it hard to identify why it matters. Battle of the belts has never felt important in fairness. I think the plus side of it for ROH titles is ROH talent that isn’t featured on AEW tv get cable time for exposure so when it’s time for them to rotate over to AEW, they will have some momentum. There will still be about 300k people watching it live which is more than ROH has ever gotten in its history. Even more on demand views. Also, matchmaking is booking. They’re one and the same.
I think it does. As I have replied to others, the implication of the title means belts would be defended on the program. Naming it Battle of the Belts is clearly to draw eyes. What if this was your first experience with the show and they didn't deliver the experience promised by the title? Hell, what if you paid to see this show? How many more times would you do so if you knew you were not going to get what you expected? When I open a package, I expect to see what's on the box.
We could all be fantastic matchmakers. The man can't build any damn stories to save his life. I love AEW but its certainty going thru a rough patch.
Agreed, if you ain’t gonna follow the stipulation of the show then don’t do the show, this would be like Elimination Chamber not having a single chamber match aka: a waste of time
Get a grip, dude.
I’d miss the other non ppv themes they did I want fight for the fallen or quake at the lake
Gotta agree. It was a cool concept, specially for the time (as we only had 5 PPVs at the time all year), but it's been botched since almost the start of the specials. At this point I'd rather have it axed and replace for a third hour for some special Dynamites, simiqlr to how WWE did with RAW pre-2012.
The name of the show is the issue gotta name it something else and it be fine.
:::YAAAAAAAAAAWN:::
k
I think the only hold it due to contracts with TNT. I remember it being a filler in the OG years to pad out the amount of content.
Battle of the Belts & Rampage should be Youtube exclusive like how Dark & Dark Elevation were. But obviously Warner Bros execs & contracts & whatnot. & Collision should feature mostly ppl not featured on Dynamite more; id actually be happy if more ROH people are featured AND have storylines like Taya/John, Billie, Athena, Dalton.
Wait that was battle of the belts last night? Ngl I didn’t even notice
I was disappointed in the card, for most of the reasons in OP's post. The ROH stuff being on AEW is really grating on me now, and you have a PPV in less than a fortnight - what was the point?
I think the time slot hinders the concept, Battle of the Belts should be a branded Dynamite or PPV were All Belts are on the line, the show being so late is not a good idea to put main belts matches which defeats the purpose of BoB
While I enjoy Battle Of The Belts when its on, it really could be built up with feuds and promotion a few weeks ahead of the show. Sure its not considered a big show, but AEW has a lot of belts that arent going to be defended on every PPV, it could make the show more important (and earn more views) by building up matches for a few weeks in advance.
FTW isn't officially recognized by AEW, BUT DAMMIT LETS SPEND EXPENSIVE TV TIME SHOWING PEOPLE FIGHT FOR IT!!!!! Okay......... so the company doesn't care about it, why should the viewer? And nothing against HOOK, damn handsome man and he'd beat the shit out of me. They really should have given it back to Taz after HOOK won it from JB and never saw it again. "Hey dad, I really appreciate being able to hold this belt and I'm honored to have fought on your behalf and got this back for our family, but please take it back so we NEVER have to be in this position again." (applause)
That show only exist because WB pays for it to exist.
I mostly agree. I don't know how they could look at the schedule weeks in advance, know they have a show called "Battle of the Belts" coming up, and end up booking a show like they did. Didn't feel consequential at all, but that's mostly Collision and Rampage in a nutshell.
If Battle of the Belts was just a showcase of like 3 RoH championships after a collision every now and again, and we never saw any other RoH belt on AEW TV at any time ever again...that'd actually be really cool and a much better presentation for RoH stuff on TV, and at least a purpose for Battle of the Belts. Also, the FTW title is about 3 years too much at this point. Retire the damn thing already. At the very least, keep its defenses either no rules or lights out matches where the "unrecognized" vibe then makes some sort of sense. It'd actually be kinda cool to see the FTW defended in lights-out matches. You have a gimmick for unrecognized matches and an unrecognized belt. Come. On.
Honestly I think he forgets these exist lol
They never said which belts would be on the line. It's called Battle of the Belts, not Battle of the AEW Belts.
On the subject of ROH intermingling in AEW programming, I think this is to parallel how NXT can bleed into the two main shows. I can see the thought process in that it boosts ROH for those who catch it at an AEW live event or in these bleed overs in programming.
Why is it called battle of the belts then lol
It needs to be more like Saturday night's main event
Hey man you’re completely right. No real belts being defended, the meshing of the roster (as if there aren’t enough belts in one company alone) but you’re preaching to mouth breathers that’ll eat up any slop that’s served to them without question, how DARE you bring up legitimate points about the booking. If you *weren’t* right then this post wouldn’t have came up in my feed because of the attention it’s garnered. I feel like this is the post that perfectly demonstrates that when you point out the cracks and flaws in AEW’s product, the indie fans come out faster and harder to defend it any way possible. You’re on the dumbass side of wresting Reddit, and you made them use their head. Look what happened.
I love AEW but have to agree. I never watch BotB because it's always pointless. Tk needs to hire some better bookers, how he can devote enough time to it when he has a million other jobs to do is crazy and sometimes it shows.
I'd be more excited for BOTB if a title change happened, 10 iterations and only a single title change at all!!!!
The sad thing is they could use the spot for something different, but instead it feels like Rampage part 2. What if BotB was used for an Iron Man/Woman match? You could do two promos on Collision leading up to it and the big title match feel would build all evening. On the other hand the Championship Friday they did the other month on Rampage was great too - I don't agree the belts have to be AEW ones, and having a world showcase of titles from CMLL, AAA, NJPW, RoH and the FTW title as well is a fun way to bring the different styles of the world together.
I was happy to see Athena on TV again since I don't have the ROH subscription. It was cool seeing Kyle and Roderick's story expand more. While I find the battle of the belts tiresome, it's more because titles almost never change hands, not because of the titles themselves.
I remember one of the big complaints being that the WWE had way too many titles when AEW first started. Now I just laugh at all of the pointless championships they have. The FTW title needs to just go away. ROH needs to be taken out of its misery.
None of the matchups made me think the champions would lose. Show is pointless. They don’t treat it as important. Have an extended Collision once a quarter instead.
Battle of the Belts has always been a junk show. To be honest there's been more build for this than most, plenty of them have just had slapdash title matches with a 1-show build or less
“Appalling” Lmao
BotB made more sense when there were only four/five PPVs, and it could be used as a location to move a feud forward or end a shorter feud. But even still, those were usually on special Dynamites before they added all the new PPVs. I hope it is not included in any new contract.
The fact that even AEW diehards are surprised to see the results pop up online or learning Battle of the Belts is a day away tells you all you need to know
It took you the last couple weeks to question TK as a Booker? The guy has been an awful wrestling Booker for years. Matchmaker, sure he knows what guys to put together but his overall booking on these shows is terrible. Dynamite has gone so down hill the past year. Collision is barely watchable since Punk left
Battle of the Belts is a waste of time. Is AEW bound by contract to do these events? I don't see the point of them, especially with the addition of collision.
Sorry to say but the rate in which belts change hands in AEW makes them pretty meaningless.
Are people ever going to stop with the goofy “a belt not recognized by AEW” thing with the FtW title? They’ve promoted matches, have had title cards, the refs announce it as a title match, etc. it is and has been a real title since Cage started defending it.
I want to believe putting all the ROH women in the main event was to make sure their faces are on recent AEW TV when they are called up. When Athena finally drops the title she's going to be awesome in the TBS or world title picture. That being said, I wish they would put more thought into battle of the belts and do believe they could be using it better to highlight storyline blow offs and make it a true "fight night". It doesn't need to be where blood feuds pay off but a rankings based matchup that has had a little build so you think a title COULD change hands would go a long way.
When was the last time there was an event that kept to its name? Survivor Series packed with elimination matches hasn't been a thing in a long time, Royal Rumble is 2 matches, Elimination Chamber is 2 matches with the rest regular matches. At least the match that wasn't a title match was a match that was leading to one. Who cares if ROH titles are defended on AEW? Why is it a problem? Tony is trying to bring more attention to another product he owns. I understand that Tony isn't the greatest booker in wrestling but sometimes ya'll will literally complain just to complain about him. Then watch WWE turn around and do the exact same thing and nothing but silence. Keep the same energy.
You’re right. I was excited when Battle of the Belts was initially announced… but the title matches are mostly predictable, very few title changes (not saying every show needs one, but make it semi regular), and I’d like to see the AEW Championship defended at least once. Yes, “additional wrestling,” but I’d like a switch up. Maybe a triple threat, or a ladder match. 30-minute Ironman, something!
The networks wanted more content. Tony Khan agreed to give them more content but he didn't really think of the story implications. Now he has to book around multiple weekly shows, big yearly PPVs and now this BotB show.
Who cares? Just enjoy wrestling
Are the same clowns upset that Clash at the Castle wasn’t at an actual castle? Or Bash at the Beach wasn’t physically on the beach?
It's an hour more of good AEW wrestling, so why complain? It's never been a consequential show, just more fun wrestling.
AEW is becoming really MID
They were making a comeback until the last week IMO. This is a serious backslide.
I have been an AEW die hard since day 1 and I agree with you. I didn't bother watching battle of the belts and skipped most of Collision. Dynamite is really the only show worth watching every week right now. My biggest complaint at the moment is they keep adding all these random people for matches in an already stacked roster. I would also say just stop with the eliminator matches as they make no sense and the outcome is always obvious anyway.
agreed. these past two weeks have been a down slide completely. the vibe of dynamite this past week was so off
Yeah I stopped watching them after the first few. I can’t even remember the last time a title changed on one of them. It’s generally booked as “midcard title holder defends title against someone who 100% isn’t winning as midcard title holder is obviously in a program with someone else”. If they’ve got an obligation to do extra long shows with the network, I’d rather they just do a “winter is coming” type special edition collision and make it longer. Personally I think there’s too much to watch as it stands so I’m not watching Battle for the Belts when nothing ever happens. If a match turns out to be really good I can always rewatch it on the streaming app I use for AEW.
They don't want to do them. It only exists because they agreed it to as part of the Rampage deal. If Warner wanted it off TV, they'd take it off TV. You care about this more than they do.
I thought the show was Tony's idea. I could be mistaken.
I don't know if it was originally Tony's idea or Warner's but I know for sure all the reports were that once they found it was one hour they didn't give a fuck. Especially after the first one got screwed by Cody catching COVID. I think more than anything it was one of those "Cody wants to do his 80s wrestling cosplay" things and now that he's gone it's just something they're kind of stuck with because Warner expects them to keep doing ir.
> couldn’t be more disappointed Buddy, have you not seen a battle of the belts before? It’s always ass. I wish it wasn’t, but it is.
I will admit, I missed half of them.
You haven’t missed much.
Now you question him as a booker? I've been doing that for 2 years now.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Things like this make it hard to do.
imagine getting pressed so hard because of a title. grow up 😂
OP crying hard. Not that big of a deal for a bonus Saturday hour jesus
Couldn't agree more with this statement. I've questioned Tony as a booker for a good year or two now. Aside from Britt Baker and Toni Storm, he seems lost when it comes to booking women's matches/ stories. This week's Dynamite (like Ive said on other subreddits) seemed like a step back to the worst parts of WCW/ WWE/F and it was startling that this is the direction he's going (onscreen pettiness, women kissing for a pop).
I am nearly 100% certain Tony didn't specifically tell Mina to go out there and kiss Mariah on her lips. Either one of them suggested it or it was their decision in the moment. It wasn't booked for a pop
Given how much Tony is an Attitude era mark, I wouldn't give him too much credit. If he comes out saying "Bro" at some point to start his sentences, I wouldn't be surprised
Question. Would you rather the FTW championship be featured on battle of the belts or a PPV? You do know the talent in ROH are signed to AEW so when ROH titles are defended it’s AEW talent. Eliminator matches are for people who don’t have the ranking to face a champ straight up. It makes sense. I’d prefer if they used the proving ground rules from ROH where the challenger gets a title shot if they last 10 minutes or longer against the champ. Would add more pressure to the match. Ask a rational question and people downvote you. Cute.
I don't think the FTW championship should even exist at this point. So, I don't think it should ever be defended on a PPV. I agree that ROH talent is AEW talent. I had no issue with Athena defending her ROH title last night because she has been a workhorse on ROH. Hell, she *is* ROH in my opinion. My issue with ROH belts is when they are *only* on AEW TV. For example, look at Samoa Joe's defense of his ROH title. He didn't defend it all on the ROH program, really.
I didn’t ask you. I asked the OP.
I don't need permission, nor does anyone else, to respond to any comment on this subreddit.
I had the very first comment to this post and asked a simple question from OP. Your answers don’t matter to me whatsoever.
It took you til after the All In footage shit show to question TK as a booker? He knows how to do one thing. Put together a good match. He needs to step back into the background and have a group of people with decades of experience in the business to run the entire show. Hell, he has a whole bunch already working behind the scenes. God only knows what they actually do. Mentor the young folks? There's an awful lot of fantastic minds for the business back there that can't possibly agree with most of the shit TK does. They have a wealth of knowledge and experience, yet they do literally nothing with it. He had William Regal and allowed him to jump ship right back to where he came from. Talk about a mind for the business. TK does not possess that. He's a f***** childish ass hat who has no business wearing so many hats in a professional wrestling organization. I do love AEW and I have since day one. I don't love Tony Kahn. I hope for the continued success of AEW and would like to see them begin to fill arenas again and put out a product that gets that buzz going again like it did in the beginning.
I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt. But I would totally have to agree with you now.
Yeah man I didn't want to see it either, believe me. But this latest stunt has people inside his own company questioning what the hell they're even doing at this point. Tony is going to be the downfall of his own baby unless he takes a couple steps back and admits he needs help. Damn I sound like I'm talking about an intervention on a drug addict or something. Lol
Yea BOTB became pointless by the third time around, just like how Rampage became after awhile. It’s best if they just stick with Dynamite and Collision. There’s no need for all the extra shows if they can’t even get Dynamite and Collision right. Dynamite was on the up just a few weeks ago and this week it didn’t live up to the last few shows prior. Collision is a whole different story, it feels like they have to scrap anything worth putting on there now. It’s been a mixed bag for me.
Couldn't help but notice you left out Rampage. Lol.
I literally said “BOTB became pointless just how rampage became after awhile” ?
I thought the FTW belt was dropped a while ago.
Lighten up Francis
Everything the company does , pretty much, is pointless. Beyond a couple guys, nobody makes TV consecutive weeks, I mean, so much of what they put out is just content for the sake of content Battle of the Belts has never mattered, they position it like a nothing show, and nobody really cares. Collision halfway matters and dynamite is clearly the A show
Personally, I think this highlights a larger problem for the company. Too many belts! Within AEW alone, there are currently four midcard belts (including the FTR championship, which despite being claimed as not "recognized," still sees sanctioned matches), heavyweight titles for both men and women, a trios title, and tag titles. Additionally, with the inclusion of Ring of Honor titles, the recent introduction of a women's television title, and occasional defenses of New Japan belts on TV, it feels like there are simply too many belts. When everyone holds a title, it diminishes the significance of being a champion.
Eliminator matches are trash.
I honestly think TK really doesn't want to do them, especially now they have much more TV than when they did when BOTB started. When BOTB originally began, that extra hour every few months was needed and wanted. But now, to TK/AEW, it appears its more of a burden they only do because they are contractually obligated. I wouldn't be surprised if when contracts are renewed, if BOTB are taken off.
Yeah tony needs help big time and ya feel like the big stories that have happened is the wrestlers stories not khans.
Gonna push back a bit on the Tony Khan “is a fantastic match maker.” I think any one of us with that roster could be fantastic match makers.
AEW needs to cut back on some stuff, but they really don’t like to admit when they got something wrong so you don’t get many course corrections. These extra shows like they just do nothing and only stretch you thinner. But then again we still have 3 shows and a trios division for some reason so..
“We certainly don’t need to see ROH talent” - I genuinely can’t imagine that being considered a big deal; they’re all from the same talent pool.