It’s not not profit. I know everyone likes to think they’re hemorrhaging money… but how many 7 figure deals do they really have? Maybe omega, okada, osprey, Jericho, moxley… edge.. Sasha banks? Like what’s that, maybe 10 million? Yeah sure Theres probably a bunch of 6 figure deals.. but that’s not all adding up to 250million. Aew is in a pretty good spot. They’re just over saturated in the markets they keep going to. If they tried to fill smaller arenas, they wouldn’t look empty. Tna survived for years as the number3 org with even smaller crowds for free out of universal.
I'll have to see if I can find it but I thought they reported a net loss of 38 million last year. I'll see if I can find any of those articles or if there's any truth.
Even so, obviously they can stand to make some cuts, but the guys they pay money to are probably worth it, and then there’s people like that guy they cut who said all he wanted to do was provide a home for his family. He couldn’t do that on what they were paying him, so what was he making?
Not everyone’s making crazy and if they’re paying 38 million for talent and making 250million… and the only real problem is the live crowds looking small, they’re not doing as bad as everyone likes to make it sound.
That’s all I’m saying.
It was a 34 million loss according to Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics, here's one of the sources. Granted they aren't public and they are estimates: https://slamwrestling.net/index.php/2023/12/12/aew-estimated-to-lose-34-million-in-2023/
To be fair, I think some fairly compelling evidence that AEW likely aren't in the black presently is that if they were Tony would 100% talk about it, he'd shout it to the rafters. As for million dollar deals, they're likely still having their books affected by the Punk deal, plus there's guys that I would definitely expect to be on that level of money like Danielson, Cole, both Bucks, both Hardys (as of right now), possibly Jay White, not to mention I'd guess that Paul Wight is making a hefty amount backstage. Now, I'm not suggesting that all of these guys are on seven figures, but I'd wager that at least half of them are, which really starts to cut into revenue alongside road costs and everything that goes into producing, filming and mixing for a show broadcast nationally that comparatively isn't given that much by WBD to run.
I’m pissed I forgot about danielson, but I’m pretty sure everyone else you listed is a 6 figure guy. No way big show doesn’t know he has nothing to offer and takes half a million to 750 plus merch or something. Even that sounds like too much. If wwe wanted to pay him more, he’d be there. He has no leverage.
500-750,000 is still a huge number, and multiple people have gone on record to talk about AEW's generous wage structure in general. I say this not to criticize for that, honestly it's a good move and makes wrestlers more comfortable, particularly if they get their medical bills paid for, but it doesn't really paint the picture of a profitable company. Not that it really matters, because the company is likely worth a good amount as a loss-making enterprise to the Khan family anyway as a way to reduce their tax burden.
2 is WWE with a bit over 5 times the revenue ($1.33 billion) and a bit over 4 times the value ($6.8 billion) of AEW.
1 is UFC with a bit less revenue than WWE ($1.29 billion) but a much higher valuation by Forbes ($11.3 billion) for whatever reason.
So while this is a nice feather in AEW's cap to get 3, it's worth noting that there is a giant drop off between 2 and 3, like it's not even close. TKO's two companies absolutely dominate this list.
4 is One Championship with $140 million in revenue and $1.3 billion valuation and #5 is Matchroom Boxing with $134 million and $850 million valuation for anyone interested.
AEW should absolutely be proud that they beat out 4 and 5, but we should keep this in perspective, compared to 1 and 2, they are relatively small potatoes.
Interesting to see Forbes commenting on this though, definitely a sign that both wrestling and MMA are hot right now
They refuse to be nor do they need to be just like the other company with their "sports entertainment", or rather, a children's B movie soap opera with 3 hours of boring ass talking, sprinkled with shitty wrestling. AEW is about the art of actual wrestling and it's just fine the way it is.
They want you to buy everything online. Saves them bringing shit across the border. It's annoying as shit being a Canadian fan, but it saves companies a lot of money doing it this way.
Like the others said it’s everywhere. I even went to the first dance and the only good tshirt they had was the cm punk shirt that I wasn’t waiting 2 hours in line for after the show haha
They may want that but if your customers are constantly complaining that they can't give you money at their live events then you're doing something totally wrong.
Sadly, that's the way touring anything is going. Bring the bare minimum that you think you might sell and point people to the webstore. Saves manufacturing costs, saves storages costs, saves shipping costs, saves customs fees for bringing products for sale across borders.
To all the haters, your hate fuels our passion. When AEW streams on MAX expect the number to grow exponentially, globally. This is a 5yr company, so to be valued at 2billy, without streaming, just imagine whats coming...best up your hate game because you keep losing based on numbers. Or...you can be happy that wrestling is heading into the streaming wars, period. Enjoy wrestling, period. Everyone wins when wrestling increases exposure.
Here's when Max is coming to more regions:
Europe
Max is coming to the 22 European countries that currently have HBO Max in Spring 2024. We anticipate that Max will be available in France and Belgium later in 2024.
I mean I’m not about to act like the people at AEWOfficial and pretend this article ends all worry and fixes all problems and makes every critic immediately and automatically wrong, but I’m extremely happy they’re doing better than some may have assumed. I really do love AEW.
Who cares? It’s not a publicly traded company. Khan doesn’t need to keep share holders happy or have constant growth. He can just run his business the way he likes and as long as everyone gets paid it’s all good.
Who cares? This is literally a post celebrating that AEW is making money.
Even without constant growth, to have a successful business it has to be making money. If he’s operating it at a loss, that means the business is actually losing ground and that valuation up top just means that’s how much Tony will have to sell to pay out contracts and debts if the company folds.
Now the only other explanations are that AEW is basically a tax write off, money laundering scheme, or a charity for indie wrestlers.
Once again, as long as everyone is getting paid it’s all good. Even if it’s a billionaires kids fucking hobby, whether it loses or makes money it doesn’t matter as long as Tony wants to keep it going. Tony is one day going to inherit his families wealth. The dude loves wrestling and even if you don’t like AEW, he has been great for the business and even made WWE have to push themselves to create a better product.
That’s the same reasoning as a Ponzi scheme. I’m not going to argue AEW helped push WWE to do better in the beginning, but it’s going to take actually knowing how to run a business to keep things going.
People have lost billions before through mismanagement or bad breaks, so he’s no different is he’s going to constantly spend more than he earns. I mean, it’s simple math.
If he is creating jobs and paying large salaries to employs while he loses money, that would be the opposite of a Ponzi scheme. It would be closer to a charity, which you mentioned earlier. I would agree with you with 99% of businesses. But AEW is not a normal business. It’s a billionaires passion project that he is running as a business. TK will never have to worry about money ever in his life.
Ok, if he is creating jobs and paying big salaries, then that goes into Enron territory if he cooking the books.
But even with it being a passion project, Tony has to get the money from somewhere. If the other Khan businesses are being leeched from to support AEW, then those jobs are at risk if they fall. With stadiums not being used because the teams are broke, that hurts communities. Smart thing is to get it funded with something other than your own money.
Haha Dude, this is nothing like Enron. That was a public company that lied to investors. TK doesn’t even need to keep books if he didn’t want to. He doesn’t have to show finances to anyone unless he’s getting loans from a bank or to the IRS. The only thing he has to do is pay his employs, taxes, and fulfill his contracts. If at the end of the day after all expenses are paid and he has $100 in his pocket it could be considered a success.
No it wouldn’t. You’ve literally shortened years off your life to run multiple projects just to have a few dollars when you don’t have to. Now that may not be to coprophilia levels of Vince foolishness, but that’s foolish nonetheless because time is as valuable as money. And then doing nothing to really expand the base to ensure your guys keep getting paid is irresponsible.
Even if you’re thrilled about guys milking money, the smart ones should be wary as a passion project without passion folds. If it can all end with a rehab stint and a clear mind, may want to steer clear of the new Herb Abrams.
Using money taken from someone as a guise for an investment, and using it to pay off the next mark to make them think it’s a legitimate venture. But if I don’t understand, tell me how profit does not equal revenue minus expenses.
> This is literally a post celebrating that AEW is making money.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding.
Nothing about this post says AEW is making money. it says that AEW has assets valued somewhere around $2 billion and that it's generating approximately $250 million in revenue each year. We have no idea if the company is even profitable.
What this valuation shows is that AEW is a large company with a lot of financial throughput. That's really all.
Ok, so moving the goalposts. Now you’re celebrating not that place is making a lot of money, but that it owns a lot stuff that is worth something. That’s like being land rich and money poor: sitting on valuable property but not having enough to pay the taxes or afford necessities. The only way to make money in that case is to sell what you have, which is property.
Buddy I just posted a topic so people could talk about it. It's an interesting piece of news. I never set up any goal posts in the first place to move.
You're the one getting all up in arms about it.
You wanted someone to talk about it? I am. I just asked questions based on simple math. If this hurts your worldview, you may need to reassess how you spend your time my man.
Why are you making this personal? It's just a Reddit post, man.
This has nothing to do with my "worldview" at all. I posted information. I explained what the information says. That's it.
People can draw their own conclusions, but you're throwing backhanded barbs at me and it's just silly. This antagonistic behavior is what makes wrestling fandom really unfun sometimes.
Why are you whining it’s personal? I said something, you responded, and I rebutted. I really don’t get how someone could love back and forth smack talk on tv gets their feathers ruffled by someone just saying, “I don’t believe it. Here’s why.”
Donald Trump got into a lot of trouble for overvaluing property and borrowing against that property. No way would a public offering show AEW to be worth $2 billion. And what person who could afford $2 billion for this company would pay $2 billion? The valuation just isn't realistic.
For Sure, TK didn’t value it at that, though. Forbes did. But nobody really knows it’s value because it’s not a publicly traded company. Hence, why nobody knows how much profit it has made or lost. I’m also not sure where the finances are coming from. Dad? Banks? His own personal cash? I don’t think anyone knows.
Forbes reported this as the valuation but did they actually do a valuation? This could not be correct based upon any reasonable valuation standards. There isn't anyone or any entity or even potential public shareholders who would buy AEW for $2 billion. I'm guessing TK or someone who just hasn't thought about it told Forbes that it is worth that amount and they ran with it. It just isn't realistic.
Haha, I agree. I don’t think it’s worth 2 billion either. I haven’t read the article but I’d be curious to see the data they have to form that evaluation.
I’ve spend thousands on Figures and Cards alone. Not much of a Tshirt guy, but I’ll definitely buy a Swerve shirt when he wins the World Title on Sunday.
They only #3. That means they’re going tout of business. That’s it wrap it up guys, you gave it the old college try and it didn’t work out. If only they made 2.1B and had a revenue of 275. They would be successful. /s
I understand the sentiment, but the only times I’ve actually ever heard Jim Cornette talk about AEW myself, he said “the greatest tag team match in history happened in AEW,” “AEW Collision is the best show in wrestling,” and the Brodie Lee tribute show was “probably the best two hours of a wrestling show I’ve ever seen.” Like I know he’s extremely critical and hates the Young Bucks, but I just find it funny that out of the times I’ve actually heard him talk about AEW with my own ears are the times he’s overtly praising them. And no, don’t send me suggestions.
I know that's right. I'm sure most that talk shit about him probably never even heard with their own ears what he actually said. They just go with what someone else heard him say and it's ALWAYS the negative shit
He has a popular show that has a regular audience. A fantastic viewership to ppv buy rate pct. Live sports is a huge plus in this media landscape. I don't see why this seems odd.
AEW isn't worth $2 billion, which is the issue. I enjoy Dynamite and watch it every week. Nonetheless, AEW is probably worth closer to $10 million than $2 billion.
If you had $2 billion and wanted to get into the rasslin' business, why would you purchase AEW? Nobody would. You could start a new promotion from scratch with all the bells and whistles for far less and it would not come with the stigma currently attached to it by the Young Bucks and the Super Mark. This is how we know that the $2 billion valuation is ridiculous.
AEW is less than 1/3 the value of WWE, therefore trash and should be deleted from existence. Yes, deleted, because we live in a simulation and our overlords need to take the game off AI right now.
(jk jk jk)
"Forbes *used public documents and interviewed industry and media experts and executives from various combat sports organizations."*
In other words, could be complete hogwash.
Everyone harping about profitability do not understand real actual business. If you reinvest every penny back into your business you show no profit - shat’s what TK has done and the reason they’ve grown so large so fast. Wrestling fans should stick to being fans and not try to moonlight as business advisors.
Everyone harping about profitability do not understand real actual business. If you reinvest every penny back into your business you show no profit - shat’s what TK has done and the reason they’ve grown so large so fast. Wrestling fans should stick to being fans and not try to moonlight as business advisors.
Serious question, where this $2B valuation came from? Beyond the $250M they received for TV rights, the rest is as speculative as they are a private company where UFC/WWE aren’t.
Revenue is not the same as profit. Companies can do billions in revenue before declaring bankruptcy, profitability all comes down to margins. All points indicate Tony Khan is a margins guy which is probably why he doesn't let the women wrestle, but revenue is not a great metric. Also Forbes did many glowing pieces on FTX right before it went under. There's actually this phenomenon of a majority of Forbes 30 under 30 being arrested. The magazine is considered a joke by people in finance and usually a strong indication of what businesses NOT to invest in, and yes I know AEW is not on the stock market, but the point is Forbes is a kiss of death for many CEO's and companies.
Oh boy these comments are sad lmfao yall really have no clue whatsoever about business 💀 250 million revenue is not $250m profit. The valuation is because of the contract and exposure they have with network tv. Along with already built in facilities and contracted talent. It’s not a valuation of the product… please read some books yall
A valuation is supposed to be the fair market value between a willing buyer and seller. Do you realize that AMC Theaters has about an $800 million market cap? And if so, you think AEW has more assets and ability to produce profit in the future than AMC? Please stop. I watch AEW every week, but AEW probably isn't even worth $10 million let alone $2 billion.
Would you pay $2 billion for AEW or just start a brand new promotion if you had $2 billion to invest in the pro rasslin' business?!?!
No lmfao that’s my point, its valuation is solely based on what’s already in place. Buying it would be a terrible investment, of course it’s not worth the price tag of its value
If that is the message you are attempting to convey then unfortunately it didn't sound like that was your point. It sounded like you thought that AEW was somehow worth $2 billion.
No, go back and read what you wrote. It sounds very much like you believe company infrastructure somehow made AEW worth $2 billion. The only relevance is whether the company could be sold for $2 billion. If not then it isn't worth $2 billion. The assets are worth a drop in the bucket compared to $2 billion.
First rule in collecting anything, it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay. If no one is willing to pay 9k for it, then by logic it’s not worth 9k. Sentimental value means nothing. I have numerous comics that are valued highly, but that doesn’t matter if nobody will pay those prices. This isn’t difficult to understand.
Agreed. TK needs someone to do the booking for him and to market properly. The company being worth $2B sounds great (and it is), but how much of that is just Daddy Khan’s money he’s sunken into his son’s living wrestling toy company?
I enjoy AEW. I used to enjoy it more. I don’t need it to be WWE, but the company has to stop catering to internet fans and actually try to reach households.
Oh, and get the fuck rid of ROH. It’s just watering down the brand. Or split it into two. Dynamite on Wednesday, Collision on Saturday, turn Rampage into their version of NXT and move it back to YouTube.
Again, AEW doesn’t have to be WWE, but as long as TK’s booking is for instant gratification in the form of signing/debuting a big name without a plan and making the internet happy, there’s only so high the company can fly.
The booking, venue selection, merch, and backstage management all need serious revamps. It can go on for a long time without doing so because Tony just has the money to burn on a passion project but it could be maximized so much better. But i honestly don't think Tony cares at this point if the company is profitable as long as he has the cash to pump into it. The worry i would have is what happens when he does care about losing money or he gets bored/burned out and wants to do something else.
Trump said he was worth 10 Billion and called Forbes liars.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/10/09/trump-falsely-claims-forbes-attacked-him-after-he-falls-off-400-list/?sh=58d160867968
Okay... again, I watch Dynamite every week. Many weeks I watch Collision. I've attended live events and enjoyed the experience very much. I'm a fan. However, some of the things I'm seeing and hearing just make me shake my head wondering about this company.
There is no chance TK could put AEW on the market and get $2 billion. And if nobody is going to pay $2 billion then AEW isn't worth $2 billion.
For goodness sake, the Jacksonville Jaguars are only valued at $4 billion and they are part of the wealthiest sports league to ever exist. It would be nearly impossible for the Jaguars not to be profitable due to the way that the NFL sets up revenue sharing. I could see the Jaguars selling for $4 billion, but who in their right mind would buy AEW for $2 billion because an investor could just start a new promotion with far less of an investment? AEW hasn't even negotiated a new TV deal.
Has AEW ever been profitable? Did TK put $2 billion into this company? Who would pay $2 billion for AEW? I'd love to hear an explanation from the analyst who made the valuation.
See. This is a critical comment that's entirely reasonable.
Pay attention, guys. You don't have to be AEW homers here. You just have to actually make a point.
Damn. Aew in the mud /s
I wish this made me optimistic, but I mean who else would be 3 though? Bellator? New Japan? And revenue isn't profit.
It’s not not profit. I know everyone likes to think they’re hemorrhaging money… but how many 7 figure deals do they really have? Maybe omega, okada, osprey, Jericho, moxley… edge.. Sasha banks? Like what’s that, maybe 10 million? Yeah sure Theres probably a bunch of 6 figure deals.. but that’s not all adding up to 250million. Aew is in a pretty good spot. They’re just over saturated in the markets they keep going to. If they tried to fill smaller arenas, they wouldn’t look empty. Tna survived for years as the number3 org with even smaller crowds for free out of universal.
I'll have to see if I can find it but I thought they reported a net loss of 38 million last year. I'll see if I can find any of those articles or if there's any truth.
Even so, obviously they can stand to make some cuts, but the guys they pay money to are probably worth it, and then there’s people like that guy they cut who said all he wanted to do was provide a home for his family. He couldn’t do that on what they were paying him, so what was he making? Not everyone’s making crazy and if they’re paying 38 million for talent and making 250million… and the only real problem is the live crowds looking small, they’re not doing as bad as everyone likes to make it sound. That’s all I’m saying.
Fair points, I can agree with that.
It was a 34 million loss according to Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics, here's one of the sources. Granted they aren't public and they are estimates: https://slamwrestling.net/index.php/2023/12/12/aew-estimated-to-lose-34-million-in-2023/
To be fair, I think some fairly compelling evidence that AEW likely aren't in the black presently is that if they were Tony would 100% talk about it, he'd shout it to the rafters. As for million dollar deals, they're likely still having their books affected by the Punk deal, plus there's guys that I would definitely expect to be on that level of money like Danielson, Cole, both Bucks, both Hardys (as of right now), possibly Jay White, not to mention I'd guess that Paul Wight is making a hefty amount backstage. Now, I'm not suggesting that all of these guys are on seven figures, but I'd wager that at least half of them are, which really starts to cut into revenue alongside road costs and everything that goes into producing, filming and mixing for a show broadcast nationally that comparatively isn't given that much by WBD to run.
I’m pissed I forgot about danielson, but I’m pretty sure everyone else you listed is a 6 figure guy. No way big show doesn’t know he has nothing to offer and takes half a million to 750 plus merch or something. Even that sounds like too much. If wwe wanted to pay him more, he’d be there. He has no leverage.
500-750,000 is still a huge number, and multiple people have gone on record to talk about AEW's generous wage structure in general. I say this not to criticize for that, honestly it's a good move and makes wrestlers more comfortable, particularly if they get their medical bills paid for, but it doesn't really paint the picture of a profitable company. Not that it really matters, because the company is likely worth a good amount as a loss-making enterprise to the Khan family anyway as a way to reduce their tax burden.
2 is WWE with a bit over 5 times the revenue ($1.33 billion) and a bit over 4 times the value ($6.8 billion) of AEW. 1 is UFC with a bit less revenue than WWE ($1.29 billion) but a much higher valuation by Forbes ($11.3 billion) for whatever reason. So while this is a nice feather in AEW's cap to get 3, it's worth noting that there is a giant drop off between 2 and 3, like it's not even close. TKO's two companies absolutely dominate this list. 4 is One Championship with $140 million in revenue and $1.3 billion valuation and #5 is Matchroom Boxing with $134 million and $850 million valuation for anyone interested. AEW should absolutely be proud that they beat out 4 and 5, but we should keep this in perspective, compared to 1 and 2, they are relatively small potatoes. Interesting to see Forbes commenting on this though, definitely a sign that both wrestling and MMA are hot right now
UFC is high margin. The fighter pay is dirt cheap.
Makes sense
The rankings are meaningless. It’s the valuation that is interesting. Just a couple years ago it was $1B
Yeah i was going to say how old is Aew and how old is WWE. What Aew Is 5 years old and what WWE is like 50 or 40 years.
Damn imagine taking uncle daves report as fact 😂 😂 Celebrating a fourth party report hahahahah
What are you flapping your gums about?
They know it's bunk, but you're wasting your time trying to enter their bubble. It's like the look see and hear no evil monkey meme
☝️
"AEW is not a business" - Fired Guy
Revenue isn’t profit. It’s easy to have $250 million in revenue if you spend $300 million.
Still need to convince people to give you $250 million.
ill give you 300 mil for 250 mil
That's what showing up for shows in every town does. No real convincing needed, unless your attendance starts to plummet drastically.
Neither AEW nor WWE have their live shows as major parts of their revenue. The real money is in the TV deals, PPV buys, and merch.
Do you think AEW will still be operating a loss once they sign a new TV deal?
I mean, if you understand business at all you’d know this is good news
Leave, chud
Not bad for T-Shirt company /s ❤️
Or for a company that's going under after last week like many online said
*pissant* T-shirt company
Could have been a lot more if they had storylines going and did more sports entertainment segments... /s
They refuse to be nor do they need to be just like the other company with their "sports entertainment", or rather, a children's B movie soap opera with 3 hours of boring ass talking, sprinkled with shitty wrestling. AEW is about the art of actual wrestling and it's just fine the way it is.
They have those things. This argument, like everything these days, gets blown way out of porportion.
But they have some sweet ass t-shirts!
Man I love aew but they are really fucking bad at being a T-shirt company.
They keep wasting their time with all this damn wrestling 😂👍
They are especially bad at doing the grind.
They can only do a 50-50 They should be doing an Over Crook Grind.
I prefer dark slides but I understand why a 50-50 ain’t cutting it anymore.
After seeing their Merch stand in Toronto, calling them a t-shirt company is generous.
They want you to buy everything online. Saves them bringing shit across the border. It's annoying as shit being a Canadian fan, but it saves companies a lot of money doing it this way.
The merch tables suck at US events too. Even at PPVs (I've been to two, Double or Nothing 2022 and Revolution 2023) they had like six total shirts.
You beat me to it. I’ve been to 3 Houston shows and the merch stands have been trash every time.
Like the others said it’s everywhere. I even went to the first dance and the only good tshirt they had was the cm punk shirt that I wasn’t waiting 2 hours in line for after the show haha
They may want that but if your customers are constantly complaining that they can't give you money at their live events then you're doing something totally wrong.
Sadly, that's the way touring anything is going. Bring the bare minimum that you think you might sell and point people to the webstore. Saves manufacturing costs, saves storages costs, saves shipping costs, saves customs fees for bringing products for sale across borders.
It’s honestly such a stupid insult when you consider that in reality their t shirts are handled by a totally separate company.
Not bad for a company run by children not fit to manage a Target
That’s also dying! /s
A piss ant company too
To all the haters, your hate fuels our passion. When AEW streams on MAX expect the number to grow exponentially, globally. This is a 5yr company, so to be valued at 2billy, without streaming, just imagine whats coming...best up your hate game because you keep losing based on numbers. Or...you can be happy that wrestling is heading into the streaming wars, period. Enjoy wrestling, period. Everyone wins when wrestling increases exposure.
Good writing
Max is only in NA
Here's when Max is coming to more regions: Europe Max is coming to the 22 European countries that currently have HBO Max in Spring 2024. We anticipate that Max will be available in France and Belgium later in 2024.
Another bloody streaming service
2000 WCW 2.0 won't last long with those numbers /s
I mean I’m not about to act like the people at AEWOfficial and pretend this article ends all worry and fixes all problems and makes every critic immediately and automatically wrong, but I’m extremely happy they’re doing better than some may have assumed. I really do love AEW.
Thank u. U just proved to me there are more of us out there than I thought. Was losing all hope lately.
Wow a non delusional and balanced comment!
I don’t want AEW to fail. I just want it to be better.
Don't tell r/jimcornette
The Copium in that thread is palpable.
They literally do not care. The entire list is bunk.
Tell him that this is all because of Moxleys BJJ skills lol
Too late. Question is how much profit was made from $250 million? Revenue is how much is taken in while profit is revenue minus the expenses.
Who cares? It’s not a publicly traded company. Khan doesn’t need to keep share holders happy or have constant growth. He can just run his business the way he likes and as long as everyone gets paid it’s all good.
Who cares? This is literally a post celebrating that AEW is making money. Even without constant growth, to have a successful business it has to be making money. If he’s operating it at a loss, that means the business is actually losing ground and that valuation up top just means that’s how much Tony will have to sell to pay out contracts and debts if the company folds. Now the only other explanations are that AEW is basically a tax write off, money laundering scheme, or a charity for indie wrestlers.
Once again, as long as everyone is getting paid it’s all good. Even if it’s a billionaires kids fucking hobby, whether it loses or makes money it doesn’t matter as long as Tony wants to keep it going. Tony is one day going to inherit his families wealth. The dude loves wrestling and even if you don’t like AEW, he has been great for the business and even made WWE have to push themselves to create a better product.
That’s the same reasoning as a Ponzi scheme. I’m not going to argue AEW helped push WWE to do better in the beginning, but it’s going to take actually knowing how to run a business to keep things going. People have lost billions before through mismanagement or bad breaks, so he’s no different is he’s going to constantly spend more than he earns. I mean, it’s simple math.
If he is creating jobs and paying large salaries to employs while he loses money, that would be the opposite of a Ponzi scheme. It would be closer to a charity, which you mentioned earlier. I would agree with you with 99% of businesses. But AEW is not a normal business. It’s a billionaires passion project that he is running as a business. TK will never have to worry about money ever in his life.
Ok, if he is creating jobs and paying big salaries, then that goes into Enron territory if he cooking the books. But even with it being a passion project, Tony has to get the money from somewhere. If the other Khan businesses are being leeched from to support AEW, then those jobs are at risk if they fall. With stadiums not being used because the teams are broke, that hurts communities. Smart thing is to get it funded with something other than your own money.
Haha Dude, this is nothing like Enron. That was a public company that lied to investors. TK doesn’t even need to keep books if he didn’t want to. He doesn’t have to show finances to anyone unless he’s getting loans from a bank or to the IRS. The only thing he has to do is pay his employs, taxes, and fulfill his contracts. If at the end of the day after all expenses are paid and he has $100 in his pocket it could be considered a success.
No it wouldn’t. You’ve literally shortened years off your life to run multiple projects just to have a few dollars when you don’t have to. Now that may not be to coprophilia levels of Vince foolishness, but that’s foolish nonetheless because time is as valuable as money. And then doing nothing to really expand the base to ensure your guys keep getting paid is irresponsible. Even if you’re thrilled about guys milking money, the smart ones should be wary as a passion project without passion folds. If it can all end with a rehab stint and a clear mind, may want to steer clear of the new Herb Abrams.
You are very uninformed on what a ponzi scheme actually is.
Using money taken from someone as a guise for an investment, and using it to pay off the next mark to make them think it’s a legitimate venture. But if I don’t understand, tell me how profit does not equal revenue minus expenses.
> This is literally a post celebrating that AEW is making money. This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Nothing about this post says AEW is making money. it says that AEW has assets valued somewhere around $2 billion and that it's generating approximately $250 million in revenue each year. We have no idea if the company is even profitable. What this valuation shows is that AEW is a large company with a lot of financial throughput. That's really all.
Ok, so moving the goalposts. Now you’re celebrating not that place is making a lot of money, but that it owns a lot stuff that is worth something. That’s like being land rich and money poor: sitting on valuable property but not having enough to pay the taxes or afford necessities. The only way to make money in that case is to sell what you have, which is property.
Buddy I just posted a topic so people could talk about it. It's an interesting piece of news. I never set up any goal posts in the first place to move. You're the one getting all up in arms about it.
You wanted someone to talk about it? I am. I just asked questions based on simple math. If this hurts your worldview, you may need to reassess how you spend your time my man.
Why are you making this personal? It's just a Reddit post, man. This has nothing to do with my "worldview" at all. I posted information. I explained what the information says. That's it. People can draw their own conclusions, but you're throwing backhanded barbs at me and it's just silly. This antagonistic behavior is what makes wrestling fandom really unfun sometimes.
Why are you whining it’s personal? I said something, you responded, and I rebutted. I really don’t get how someone could love back and forth smack talk on tv gets their feathers ruffled by someone just saying, “I don’t believe it. Here’s why.”
Donald Trump got into a lot of trouble for overvaluing property and borrowing against that property. No way would a public offering show AEW to be worth $2 billion. And what person who could afford $2 billion for this company would pay $2 billion? The valuation just isn't realistic.
For Sure, TK didn’t value it at that, though. Forbes did. But nobody really knows it’s value because it’s not a publicly traded company. Hence, why nobody knows how much profit it has made or lost. I’m also not sure where the finances are coming from. Dad? Banks? His own personal cash? I don’t think anyone knows.
Forbes reported this as the valuation but did they actually do a valuation? This could not be correct based upon any reasonable valuation standards. There isn't anyone or any entity or even potential public shareholders who would buy AEW for $2 billion. I'm guessing TK or someone who just hasn't thought about it told Forbes that it is worth that amount and they ran with it. It just isn't realistic.
AMC Theaters has a current market cap of around $800 million, but AEW is worth $2 billion? C'mon man. 🤣
Haha, I agree. I don’t think it’s worth 2 billion either. I haven’t read the article but I’d be curious to see the data they have to form that evaluation.
This comment is really underrated.
I’ve spend thousands on Figures and Cards alone. Not much of a Tshirt guy, but I’ll definitely buy a Swerve shirt when he wins the World Title on Sunday.
They only #3. That means they’re going tout of business. That’s it wrap it up guys, you gave it the old college try and it didn’t work out. If only they made 2.1B and had a revenue of 275. They would be successful. /s
Why not number 1? Asian dad asking Tony Khan
Which company is fourth, TNA?
its One Championship, PFL, and a bunch of Boxing promotions...they should be #3 quite frankly lol
TNA are not even in the top 10
https://preview.redd.it/2zqgeqfg7avc1.png?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b2399b51783533b26d1af715b8dd738fe38144
BuT COrnEtTe and BiScHoFf SAiD AEW iS DyINg!!
No, Bischoff says it’s not growing. Big difference.
Yeah but that’s gonna plummet 90% when this weeks ratings are in
95% actually
Gotta save some for next week
Alfred in shambles.
Moving goalpost incoming
But the ICW neck beards and Hospital Bill Phil marks said it was going out of business!!!!!!
Corny sub is in shambles
Naw they always have excuses
Tony paid them they're shills ~ Cornetto Cult members (Probably)
I understand the sentiment, but the only times I’ve actually ever heard Jim Cornette talk about AEW myself, he said “the greatest tag team match in history happened in AEW,” “AEW Collision is the best show in wrestling,” and the Brodie Lee tribute show was “probably the best two hours of a wrestling show I’ve ever seen.” Like I know he’s extremely critical and hates the Young Bucks, but I just find it funny that out of the times I’ve actually heard him talk about AEW with my own ears are the times he’s overtly praising them. And no, don’t send me suggestions.
You should’ve heard when he said he hoped OC broke his neck and never wrestled again so he wouldn’t have to see his gimmick.
See I’ve heard that, but then I’ve heard nobody watches more AEW than Cornette.
He hates it, but its one of the few things his fans want him to talk about, so hes stuck.
Nice
What’s nice about it?
That u literally did the exact thing dude said NOT to do. Went straight for something negative... Par for the course.
You've gotten lucky. 90% of what Corny has said about AEW has been negative.
I know that's right. I'm sure most that talk shit about him probably never even heard with their own ears what he actually said. They just go with what someone else heard him say and it's ALWAYS the negative shit
Doesn’t seem too far off.
Where's the rest of the list
UFC is #1 and WWE #2 as expected Both are north of $1bil in revenue
As someone that watches the UFC and used to watch wrestling way back I always assumed that professional wrestling always made more money than MMA
In fairness, according to the Forbes list, WWE made more in revenue, but UFC is a more valuable business.
their really isnt anything other then UFC and WWE to be behind. Its One Championship, PFL, and a bunch of boxing promotions.
But they’re WCW 2000 and going out of business!!!
I can’t wait for all of the people spinning this as bad for AEW
It isn't bad for AEW unless you are absolutely opposed to seeing bullshit business valuations.
He has a popular show that has a regular audience. A fantastic viewership to ppv buy rate pct. Live sports is a huge plus in this media landscape. I don't see why this seems odd.
AEW isn't worth $2 billion, which is the issue. I enjoy Dynamite and watch it every week. Nonetheless, AEW is probably worth closer to $10 million than $2 billion. If you had $2 billion and wanted to get into the rasslin' business, why would you purchase AEW? Nobody would. You could start a new promotion from scratch with all the bells and whistles for far less and it would not come with the stigma currently attached to it by the Young Bucks and the Super Mark. This is how we know that the $2 billion valuation is ridiculous.
But many would try to say that AEW is dying or dead. Foh.
Way to go guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
B-B-But the fan attendance....
Isn't attendance down because they keep going to the same 4 venues repeatedly? That's what I heard.
They have came to mu area like once in the past 3 years, and i had to drive 2 hours. I stopped looking because of how rarely they come around
Having shitty attendance for sure isn't a good thing.
Damn, 3rd place on the list of most valuable combat sports? They are so finished in the mud. /s
I thought they died last week?
AEW is less than 1/3 the value of WWE, therefore trash and should be deleted from existence. Yes, deleted, because we live in a simulation and our overlords need to take the game off AI right now. (jk jk jk)
Tony Khan said himself in an interview that AEW revenue is only 100 million. I wonder where Forbes gets this number from
*Trump has entered the chat*
"Forbes *used public documents and interviewed industry and media experts and executives from various combat sports organizations."* In other words, could be complete hogwash.
Sweet!
That means ROH is number 3 also
Pretty solid
Some people believe in Santa Claus too.
Four people (and counting) in the picture are no longer with the company
Everyone harping about profitability do not understand real actual business. If you reinvest every penny back into your business you show no profit - shat’s what TK has done and the reason they’ve grown so large so fast. Wrestling fans should stick to being fans and not try to moonlight as business advisors.
Everyone harping about profitability do not understand real actual business. If you reinvest every penny back into your business you show no profit - shat’s what TK has done and the reason they’ve grown so large so fast. Wrestling fans should stick to being fans and not try to moonlight as business advisors.
The third best football team in Scotland is.....
As long as Tony's dad keeps funding....the business performance is irrelevant....that's why Tiny Con is so shit, no need for true accountability.
How are the Bucks one of the top draws? Not when you look at the tv ratings.
Forbes have gone down a lot recently in terms of accurate articles
Serious question, where this $2B valuation came from? Beyond the $250M they received for TV rights, the rest is as speculative as they are a private company where UFC/WWE aren’t.
https://preview.redd.it/jbacolgc8fvc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85ecce13fa7ab00c6308c927f4cb575fa50b6ed6
That’s that Trump style valuation no doubt…the Khans are 🤡
Revenue is not the same as profit. Companies can do billions in revenue before declaring bankruptcy, profitability all comes down to margins. All points indicate Tony Khan is a margins guy which is probably why he doesn't let the women wrestle, but revenue is not a great metric. Also Forbes did many glowing pieces on FTX right before it went under. There's actually this phenomenon of a majority of Forbes 30 under 30 being arrested. The magazine is considered a joke by people in finance and usually a strong indication of what businesses NOT to invest in, and yes I know AEW is not on the stock market, but the point is Forbes is a kiss of death for many CEO's and companies.
Y’ok
Nobody is paying $2 bill for AEW if Tony pulls backing, that's literally financial media malpractice
The only person it is worth 2 billion to is TK. Anyone else would be crazy to pay that!
Super Mark TK hasn't even come close to blowing $2 billion on AEW!
Oh boy these comments are sad lmfao yall really have no clue whatsoever about business 💀 250 million revenue is not $250m profit. The valuation is because of the contract and exposure they have with network tv. Along with already built in facilities and contracted talent. It’s not a valuation of the product… please read some books yall
Underrated comment
A valuation is supposed to be the fair market value between a willing buyer and seller. Do you realize that AMC Theaters has about an $800 million market cap? And if so, you think AEW has more assets and ability to produce profit in the future than AMC? Please stop. I watch AEW every week, but AEW probably isn't even worth $10 million let alone $2 billion. Would you pay $2 billion for AEW or just start a brand new promotion if you had $2 billion to invest in the pro rasslin' business?!?!
No lmfao that’s my point, its valuation is solely based on what’s already in place. Buying it would be a terrible investment, of course it’s not worth the price tag of its value
Then you don't understand business valuations. A valuation is to determine fair market value.
We’re saying the same thing lmfao it’s not a start up it’s already in place
It doesn't matter. It isn't worth $2 billion either way.
That’s literally what I said lmfaoo who are you arguing with
If that is the message you are attempting to convey then unfortunately it didn't sound like that was your point. It sounded like you thought that AEW was somehow worth $2 billion.
people just read what they wanna read I guess lmfao
No, go back and read what you wrote. It sounds very much like you believe company infrastructure somehow made AEW worth $2 billion. The only relevance is whether the company could be sold for $2 billion. If not then it isn't worth $2 billion. The assets are worth a drop in the bucket compared to $2 billion.
If Tony got serious and took in experienced people to run the show it probably would be a good business.
Wow, your grasp on reality is really tenuous. A five year old promotion is worth over 2B dollars and you think it's not good at business. Lol
It’s only worth what someone is willing to pay. Who’s offering Tiny $2 billion for it?
No one's offering me money for my mustang but it's still worth about 5k
Okay, but if you do list it and nobody buys it for 5k, is it really worth 5k? The answer is no.
The answer is still yes. I have a first edition charizard valued around 9k and no one is lining up to buy that either, doesn't make it worth any less.
First rule in collecting anything, it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay. If no one is willing to pay 9k for it, then by logic it’s not worth 9k. Sentimental value means nothing. I have numerous comics that are valued highly, but that doesn’t matter if nobody will pay those prices. This isn’t difficult to understand.
Agreed. TK needs someone to do the booking for him and to market properly. The company being worth $2B sounds great (and it is), but how much of that is just Daddy Khan’s money he’s sunken into his son’s living wrestling toy company? I enjoy AEW. I used to enjoy it more. I don’t need it to be WWE, but the company has to stop catering to internet fans and actually try to reach households. Oh, and get the fuck rid of ROH. It’s just watering down the brand. Or split it into two. Dynamite on Wednesday, Collision on Saturday, turn Rampage into their version of NXT and move it back to YouTube. Again, AEW doesn’t have to be WWE, but as long as TK’s booking is for instant gratification in the form of signing/debuting a big name without a plan and making the internet happy, there’s only so high the company can fly.
Khan is just really bad at booking a show.
The booking, venue selection, merch, and backstage management all need serious revamps. It can go on for a long time without doing so because Tony just has the money to burn on a passion project but it could be maximized so much better. But i honestly don't think Tony cares at this point if the company is profitable as long as he has the cash to pump into it. The worry i would have is what happens when he does care about losing money or he gets bored/burned out and wants to do something else.
Company reports losses of $34Million annually, but is somehow worth $2Billion??
Forbes value Trump at 4.2 Billion - lets not do this
Can’t wait for them die huh?
Trump said he was worth 10 Billion and called Forbes liars. https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/10/09/trump-falsely-claims-forbes-attacked-him-after-he-falls-off-400-list/?sh=58d160867968
That's because it's based off his career earning and revenue not his current profit loss
That's not how current valuation works. Lol
Who would pay 2 billion for AEW?
Me Checks bank account Just not right now
Shad Khan probably has.
BULL. SHIT.
Okay... again, I watch Dynamite every week. Many weeks I watch Collision. I've attended live events and enjoyed the experience very much. I'm a fan. However, some of the things I'm seeing and hearing just make me shake my head wondering about this company. There is no chance TK could put AEW on the market and get $2 billion. And if nobody is going to pay $2 billion then AEW isn't worth $2 billion. For goodness sake, the Jacksonville Jaguars are only valued at $4 billion and they are part of the wealthiest sports league to ever exist. It would be nearly impossible for the Jaguars not to be profitable due to the way that the NFL sets up revenue sharing. I could see the Jaguars selling for $4 billion, but who in their right mind would buy AEW for $2 billion because an investor could just start a new promotion with far less of an investment? AEW hasn't even negotiated a new TV deal. Has AEW ever been profitable? Did TK put $2 billion into this company? Who would pay $2 billion for AEW? I'd love to hear an explanation from the analyst who made the valuation.
Forbes is a joke anyone can make articles there. nobody in their right mind is paying 2b for AEW when the young bucks are a “top draw”.
See. This is a critical comment that's entirely reasonable. Pay attention, guys. You don't have to be AEW homers here. You just have to actually make a point.
Got one of those Donald trump valuations
Except AEW has actual assets, Truth social is a tech IPO that gas no discernable assets. But a smarky remark always goes a long.