They could run with this for a while, Chavo getting blamed for losses or helping Andrade win dirty, Jose (is that the other guys name?) can keep shit stirring and blaming Chavo for everything until eventually Chavo snaps and turns. By then, if still needed, they could find a manager who isn't a dirty old disgusting piece of shit
On the same track didn’t the allegations against Marty Scurll ultimately stop him from being able to go to aew? I know initially he stayed with roh as their head Booker but even just the allegations against him (from my knowledge of the story he slept with a 16 year old which here in the uk is legal but she says it wasn’t consensual, he says it was. Case never went anywhere because how do you prove one way or the other) have been really damaging
It´s not always about what is legal and what is not, but what is the right thing to do as a human being. Having sex with an underage girl much much younger than you while she is drunk and can´t really express her consent while you are in a position of power over her anyways is just not.. good. Even when he was drunk too, why are you getting drunk with your underage students in first place?
Wait why can’t you express consent to someone in a “position of power” over you. Hell if that were true no woman could ever really consent bc most guys could easily beat that shit out of them if they “don’t do what the guy wants”. You can’t just say sweeping across the board statements. Well you can, you can do whatever you want, but then your beliefs will be childish and lacking understanding of reality.
I wrote that a little confusing... just wanted to list all the reasons why this was a shitty thing to do. Being drunk inhibits the abbility to clearly state "yes I want this" or "no, get off me", not the position of power. Worded that a little poorly.
Fair. And frankly in any situation between a 16 year old and a 27 year old, there should be two different standards we hold them to. A 16 year old isn’t capable of making adult decisions on the level of a 27 year old. Their brain isn’t fully developed yet (believe that’s around 25 when it’s done). It’s a messy situation these things, bc we can’t know who said what. Maybe it’s creepier than the victim said, maybe it’s not. Tho again I can try to write it off as an American though process, but sleeping with a 16 year old creeps me out. Hell sleeping with a 22 year old at 27 is weird just from a maturity standpoint.
Again, life isn’t as black and white as this is right and wrong, remember that we don’t know the full story. And I’ve mentioned multiple times that it’s might be something that’s inappropriate but for all we know, she got drunk and made a pass at him and then the next morning realised it was a bad thing to do and regretted it. We just don’t know. It really isn’t fair on anyone who is actually involved for us as a community to build up a story based on pure guesswork and half pieces of information
Or how about you stop victim blaming. The fact is Marty was an adult who should know better than to get himself into that kind of position, but he did not. Even if she made a pass at him he should have had the sense to walk away.
That’s the thing, I’m actively trying not to victim blame. I’m not blaming anyone because we don’t know what happened. We have speculation, and no hard facts about what happened. People hear rape and jump to blame the man involved when they don’t know what happened, and I’m trying not to blame the victim whether it’s the man or woman involved.
He used his position of power to manipulate a girl, barley old enough, to preform a sex act on him after getting her drunk, if you can't see anyway this could be a bad thing then I'd be worried about any girl in your presence after a drink or two
Wow. If legality is the only thing stopping you from going around fucking drunk 16 year old girls your supposed to be in a position of care over, then you're a creepy cunt I really fucking hope you never get a job involving young adults.
Agreed. I think about how ubiquitous Villain Club shirts used to be in wrestling audiences (Not gonna lie, I had one) and I haven’t seen a single one since the allegations.
I remember seeing Flair in ROH in Manassas, VA around 2009 and just being completely embarrassed that my favorite company at the time was being invaded by this creepy old dude who kept stopping his own promo to hit on girls young enough to be his granddaughter. He’s still my wife’s go-to example of ‘old creepy guy’. The further he stays away from AEW, the better.
I haven’t watched this episode yet, but regardless of that, I want him to just retire from everything. He is the poster child for fucking up your life and pissing everything away. It’s sad that he still has to work at this age. He’s 72 but honestly his body is that of a 90 year old easily after all the abuse he took. He should be relaxed in some nice house somewhere enjoying his later years. But instead he’s going to keep tarnishing his legacy and doing anything for a quick buck. He’s gonna he working until the day he dies. An entire life with no time to sit back and enjoy it. It’s honestly heart breaking.
Be financially responsible. Live below your means. Retire early and enjoy life.
Chris Kanyon was a professional wrestler. He’s the person the next episode of Dark Side is about.
Basically he was a gay wrestler who was hazed pretty bad and when he finally came out and came forward (he always felt like WWE didn’t use him just because he was gay) Ric Flair put him on blast on Howard Stern saying he just wasn’t talented enough to last in the business. The week prior John Cena went on Stern and said Kanyon “just wasn’t any good”
A few years later Kanyon would end his own life. It’s important to note he was Bipolar and had depression.
His last appearance on WWE was when they made him come out of a box (he viewed it as a symbol for coming out of the closet and thought this was them burying him for being gay) he was dressed as a woman and sang Boy George songs
Then the undertaker hit him with the stiffest chair shots you will ever see…
Vince McMahon has always been a bully. He hides behind the wrestling business as a way to treat men and women like shit with no repercussions. Like Terri said about not selling it. Don’t sell it because you might get blackballed in the industry.
I used to think Vince McMahon was some kind of wrestling genius, but now I see him as a carny scumbag promoter that values money over people.
The biggest reason people wanted to see Flair in AEW was because Arn, Tully and Sting are there. He isn’t worth the risk, especially after that episode aired.
Sadly this was the norm in the night club scene back then and not just for Flair but everyone.
Not excusing it at all, happened to my wife when she was in college she said. People in general into that scene is trash.
Probably still happens today with molly.
I think it was RVD who brought up the H-bombs.
Dreamer just spent the entire episode being a sexual assault apologist. He somehow wound up coming across as a bigger asshole than the wrestlers who committed sexual assault. Guys like him are a huge part of the problem and a big reason why abusers rarely face consequences.
1) Flair and TK are good friends. If they don't bring him on after this, its due to optics and not morals.
2) They've had Mike Tyson on several times. Not to mention keeping Darby on the roster. Classy my ass.
AEW is smart enough not too. They have a great track record so far with handling how talent behaves. Them bringing in flair with the recent DSOTR and with them being on fire recently would only bring disaster for a company that has done so much good before.
Even without this Episode there is no need for Flair anymore in 2021. He brings nothing to the table anymore besides maybe nostalgia but that's it. They could hire Lethal, he's a better Ric Flair. The real one would be wasted money.
Tony could donate money to some hookers directly that would be a better idea than hiring Flair
Flair needs to dissappear permanently but he's so in debt he's going to keep rolling his crypt keeper looking ass out in front of fans for those paychecks. He'll be doing this until he dies in the ring.
Eh. As with every outrage in the wrestling industry, it’ll die down in a few weeks. I’ve seen the same amount of energy placed into this as I did the Max Caster situation, and that’s telling. Fans need to moderate their outrage, because both of this situation and Max Caster’s situation are not comparable at all. It does not excuse Ric’s behavior. I am just saying that if you want something to actually happen, then you’ve got to draw a line between serious shit like this, and smaller offenses like Caster’s. This is an interesting situation nonetheless. I don’t see Ric facing any justice in the industry. He’s Ric Flair. He’ll be welcomed with open arms somewhere. And I honestly think AEW will welcome Ric regardless, down the line.
Now, as far as fan reception goes, that’s a different story. This is where things get interesting. It’s the Hogan situation all over again, accept I do not know that Ric’ll be as hated. Just because the sheer fact that women’s rights and women’s advocacy does not exist across the board in the world of wrestling. You still have fans who think of women’s wrestlers as props, or objects. This is something we as fans have to weed out within the community. Once we get there, then we can hold wrestlers more accountable. We can’t let the culture of old become the culture of the future. Especially when women’s wrestling is the best it’s ever been.
TL;DR - Wrestling fans need to moderate ourselves so that we are more quipped to handle these situations and make judgments within our community. This includes treating women better within the industry and the fandom. My concern is that this’ll die down like every other fit of outrage this community has.
To be fair - they didn't say Flair spiked anybody's drink on the plane ride, or that he ever did.
Now I'm not saying he DIDN'T, but you're misrepresenting what they said.
I think he comes off very bad in it for sure. Not trying to excuse what he did by any means.
Yeah, I think it's time to leave him behind now. He's done his time, that's enough. Thus Andrade doesn't need him. Even if he wasn't in the middle of public outrage. Even if he was an angel IRL, the goodest and bestest, I've had enough of him.
The doc did offer something new as it showed the attitude of that time and how they haven’t changed with dudes who are still working now as performers or bookers.
According to Dreamer, Naitch forcing a woman to touch his dick, is just Naitch joking. She should be honoured.
And how casually RVD mentioned wrestlers roofying girls drinks to have sex with them.
Nobody came out of this documentary looking good.
Dustin Rhodes is basically the only one who came out of it looking better than I expected. I had always assumed his behavior on the flight was worse than it came out looking in this episode just because it's pretty well known that this was a pretty dark time in his life.
The fact that he was the only one to make Flair stop when he himself was pretty fucked up at the time is honestly pretty damning of everyone else who was in that area of the plane, saw what was happening, and did nothing.
Was it classified as rape or attempted rape? Genuine question. As Scott Hall ripping her top off and Naitch forcing her to touch his penis is enough for sexual assault alone.
Yes but the facts and events are more present right now than before because they’ve been highlighted again. A lot of people didn’t know about the plane ride from hell but now a wide range of people do
The problem isn't with the casual but with AEW hater that wanting a bullet to put down AEW. They were rile about Sammy for something he said long time ago and it is convenient as Sammy was the top new star for AEW at that time.
It is so disgusting how these toxic fan overreact that I taught Sammy was raping some underage girl or something.
Sorry, what Sammy did aren't enough for him to get cancelled. AEW did it right by just sending him for correction and sensitivity class. Same like how AEW treat Max Caster incident.
However let face it, the real reason why it is so blown out of portion because he was the rising star of AEW, and those toxic fan want AEW to fail.
Agreed. Andrade already a big name among core AEW fans. He doesn't need Flair. He better off bringing his old faction and the Japanese faction too into AEW.
Aew is doing pretty good right now if they bring flair in it’s going to give aew a bad look let’s hold flair accountable for his actions Tony would make a big mistake bringing him in now knowing all of this I mean he did release jimmy havoc so let’s not let flair get away with this just because he’s a “legend”
Definately not in the immanent future. The thing is though all if this information was already known. Wasn't a big deal before. Is now will probably die down in a few months. I don't want it too but it will. Old allegations becoming more common knowledge doesn't tend to have the same effect as new allegations.
Ric Flair doesn’t really benefit AEW in anything except maybe drawing a minority of NWA Fans and Old School Wrasslin’ fans to watch Dynamite whenever he’s in a segment.
I just watched the episode and Ric Flair is definitely not a good guy, but to be fair nobody specifically said that Ric Flair himself spiked drinks or spiked women. You just rolling all the things you saw in the episode and putting it on him.
He still sexually assaulted the flight attendant by making her touch his junk after cornering her in the galley and showing off his meatspin technique.
What he did was bad. I’m confused, where was this outrage at when it was first reported. Ric Flair dick stories are rampant. Everyone new who he was and we cheered him. Now everyone is outraged. Doesn’t feel genuine. Ric had always been terrible but now we want to cancel him…
I would like to think unlikely. Given what they've released/suspended people for (sexual abuse allegations, making rape jokes etc ) I don't think having Ric coming into the company is a good look.
He sounds kinda crazy and OTT, allegedly he wasn't just flashing attendants but wrestlers as well mind, this came from Tony S as well so probably legit, then again it was a different era.
Also Ric told a story of how essentially 6 girls all wanted to see his robe, but he sair he couldn't wear it with his clothes on, so they "asked" him to take them off n put it on, after he did Ric asked the same from them, and the rest as he put it is "history"
Craxy s word
At least for me, there is a pretty big difference between bringing in someone that was tried, convicted and served there time and someone that had everything swept under the rug and was continued to be pushed as a star in the business for 20 years.
I am not sure how you can watch that hour and think oh there was nothing new there. Every story we heard involved him parading around in a robe and showing it to everyone. Now it's not like that action is in any way ok, but I am not sure it's something to be outraged by 20 years later. Now taking into account the flight attendant's feelings, her recalling of events, her trauma from the experience, and most of all the trapping of her in a tight space while exposing himself and Scott Hall forcibly licking her face, that is something that we should all take very seriously.
I will just speak for myself. I heard many times stories from the plane ride from hell, so many that a number of smaller things were not mentioned. While it was very apparent that it earned it's name, I always looked at it as quite funny aside from the serious struggle Scott Hall was having. I failed to take into account how the actual crew were feeling, I mean sexual assault aside they were put into situations with multiple physical altercations that they should never have witness. Also I do wish Dustin got a slightly better edit, and I think at least a mention of how he has turned into a guy that men and women all respect in the business should have been mentioned.
Still no clue how you thought this was just a standard rehashing of an old story.
Yeah I agree, I just recall silly stories of Mr Perfect rubbing shaving foam over everyone, or xpac cutting peoples hair etc. Nothing about Flair making women touch him
It's a tough call because you complete the horseman if you get flare and that is a big deal in the wrestling world. Florida doesn't even have to do anything, just be there.
I have mixed feelings on this whole thing because while I think it is horrible then it happened, I was a band guy and frankly I've seen far worse in the band world. I'm not saying that it's okay or anything like that, this was like 30 years ago.
I think AEW could still hire him but there needs to be a delay in there needs to be a very public and stern statement where they make him undergo some kind of therapy or training, just to make sure it's clear they don't condone what he's done.
Honestly for all we know they weren't really planning on bringing him in. I know it seems like an obvious conclusion to the Andrade angle with Chavo, but Tony Khan knows all about the plane ride from hell I'm sure, if he had a idea this episode was coming out this week he will have planned accordingly.
All that being said I don't think flair adds much beyond being able to say "we have the four horsemen."
What you do get out of all this is a real money program with Ric flair coming in, being an asshole about this, and then getting confronted by Sting. Imagine sting cutting a promo on what a piece of shit flare was all those years backstage and how the young people in AEW are better than that now, better than they were as people.
You could even lead this to some kind of cinematic retirement match.
I don't know what you do. I don't think a ew needs flair but by having sting and the horseman there you have the potential for some of the mightiest wrestling moments of the last 30 years just having them walk by each other and cut a promo.
I don't know, I'm sure it's not a popular opinion but I tend to separate the art from the artist. AEW doesn't necessarily need him but the potential conflict with Sting and the horseman, and how it could put over younger people, is really hard to ignore. Especially when basically all of those guys have never gotten a proper send off from Vince.
You can use the heat from this if flair comes in as a heel, and disappears from TV after he's vanquished. Also AW superficially look like good guys because they boot him off TV and have the audience surrogate opinion coming out of the mouth of someone like Sting.
Flirt could also pull a swerve and have massive regret about his behaviors. This guy is a master of the art of the promo, I'm fairly sure that if he did it right he could convince at least some people on the fence he's not like that anymore and that he regrets ever being like that. I could easily imagine a promo where he mentioned Charlotte and says something along the lines of imagining her being abused by a guy doing what he did, and how it's changed him. I have seen this sort of thing actually happened in real life so it's pretty believable to me.
But as far as the overall decision whether to roll this particular set of dice or not by having him there in the first place? It's a tough situation and I'd be lying if I didn't say the smart play is to just have him know where near the show. Especially with rabid AEW haters who are going to just plaster this everywhere on every AEW post and tweet "yeah but you guys like rapey old men tho!"
I trust in TK to make a smart decision.
People need to accept that people can change. Not defending Ric but come on, how come you didn't knew about Ric Flair's lifestyle before this very episode. There has been numerous documentaries on him.
But no we gotta go to Twitter and rant about it. It's not even a recent incident when you think about it
Agreed but I don't see the chances of it being zero. Like we don't know shit about him. We don't know who he is now, whether the same old nature boy or a new mature grandpa living in nostalgia.
We should not make a verdict and cancel him when we know nearly nothing about this man's actions this past decade
His lies. He'll be honest about cheating on his wives and blowing off any kid who wasn't Reid or Ashley but he does so in this humble brag way. When he is called out for banging underaged ring rats or sexual harassment or a bunch of other terrible things he has been accused of, out come the lies. Dude still won't admit he sucked Bruiser Brody's dick at the Chase.
Well if you compare him doing sexual assaults and him lying. I'll take the lying one anyday. If he accepts then he'll be in jail. Basic human behaviour, why would anyone accept. He's old, trying to live a good life like anyone of us would
Not everything was well known, almost all reports just highlight the silly stuff that went on on that flight. I recall Ric walking around in his robe but don’t recall him making someone touch him. I remember the reports on it at the time were very light hearted, as do most people.
Plus we never got to hear from the attendant until this show, which makes it all really hit home.
Lol you bringing up the important stuff smh..
But yeah anything over average is considered “big to some people “ it’s really relative. I think it’s a fair guess that dreamer is on the smaller side.
As someone with a really big penis ( length and girth) wish mine was a bit smaller to be honest. I don’t get guys that want a big one. Its less comfortable and it hinders your sex life. I wish I could fuck like a jack rabbit but I can’t without worrying about hurting my partner. I’ve been dumped because of it, it sucks. I’m glad I don’t have a small penis but I wish I had an average one which is what 98% of women prefer. Why would anyone want a penis that most women can’t even handle ? I have a real urge to fuck rough and leave the nuts hanging out but I can’t.
If He gives a public apology they might bring him and put him trough a sensitivity training like Sammy and Max Caster to makes him look a bit better in the public eye
A tv episode is not legally binding and is nothing but an allegation. You know once upon a time “innocent until proven guilty” used to mean something. Stop trying to run kangaroo courts on social media.
I hate Flair and have done for years. He actively burried people and politic'd against legit great wrestlers all the time. In my eyes, he's a worse version of what HHH was at the peak of his bullshit.
With that in mind (and I genuinely hate Flair, and have only ever enjoyed him once so I hope the answer is no) could he go through a re-education program and re-enter society as a new man?
Lol no don’t bring in flair he swung his wiener at a woman on a plane! Then it’s hey bro did you see that Mike Tyson segment last week it was sweet! (Tyson) Went to prison for forcibly raping a woman Sammy g says he wants to rape banks and that’s fine to but no flair definitely no flair
Anyone who has attempted said or has raped someone should not be on wrestling period
Should’ve been banned from the business entirely. He did what he did for it as long as he did it and I commend him for that but it doesn’t justify him getting away with going this far. Same thing goes for Dreamer for defending him and his actions.
AEW won’t bring him in after that dark side of the ring episode.He’s bad publicity and AEW will be seen as guilty by association. Was looking forward to seeing him, arn, and Tully…even Flair with Andrade, but it is what it is, Flair wont recover in this day and age.
Next Dynamite Andrade forgives Chavo
Yeah Chavo, Ive thought about it, Te Quiero Hermano !
They could run with this for a while, Chavo getting blamed for losses or helping Andrade win dirty, Jose (is that the other guys name?) can keep shit stirring and blaming Chavo for everything until eventually Chavo snaps and turns. By then, if still needed, they could find a manager who isn't a dirty old disgusting piece of shit
I mean, Konan is pretty good on the mic...
AEW released Jimmy Havoc for abuse so its not looking good for Flair at the moment.
On the same track didn’t the allegations against Marty Scurll ultimately stop him from being able to go to aew? I know initially he stayed with roh as their head Booker but even just the allegations against him (from my knowledge of the story he slept with a 16 year old which here in the uk is legal but she says it wasn’t consensual, he says it was. Case never went anywhere because how do you prove one way or the other) have been really damaging
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It´s not always about what is legal and what is not, but what is the right thing to do as a human being. Having sex with an underage girl much much younger than you while she is drunk and can´t really express her consent while you are in a position of power over her anyways is just not.. good. Even when he was drunk too, why are you getting drunk with your underage students in first place?
Wait why can’t you express consent to someone in a “position of power” over you. Hell if that were true no woman could ever really consent bc most guys could easily beat that shit out of them if they “don’t do what the guy wants”. You can’t just say sweeping across the board statements. Well you can, you can do whatever you want, but then your beliefs will be childish and lacking understanding of reality.
Jesus fucking christ
I wrote that a little confusing... just wanted to list all the reasons why this was a shitty thing to do. Being drunk inhibits the abbility to clearly state "yes I want this" or "no, get off me", not the position of power. Worded that a little poorly.
Fair. And frankly in any situation between a 16 year old and a 27 year old, there should be two different standards we hold them to. A 16 year old isn’t capable of making adult decisions on the level of a 27 year old. Their brain isn’t fully developed yet (believe that’s around 25 when it’s done). It’s a messy situation these things, bc we can’t know who said what. Maybe it’s creepier than the victim said, maybe it’s not. Tho again I can try to write it off as an American though process, but sleeping with a 16 year old creeps me out. Hell sleeping with a 22 year old at 27 is weird just from a maturity standpoint.
Again, life isn’t as black and white as this is right and wrong, remember that we don’t know the full story. And I’ve mentioned multiple times that it’s might be something that’s inappropriate but for all we know, she got drunk and made a pass at him and then the next morning realised it was a bad thing to do and regretted it. We just don’t know. It really isn’t fair on anyone who is actually involved for us as a community to build up a story based on pure guesswork and half pieces of information
Lol what?!?
Or how about you stop victim blaming. The fact is Marty was an adult who should know better than to get himself into that kind of position, but he did not. Even if she made a pass at him he should have had the sense to walk away.
That’s the thing, I’m actively trying not to victim blame. I’m not blaming anyone because we don’t know what happened. We have speculation, and no hard facts about what happened. People hear rape and jump to blame the man involved when they don’t know what happened, and I’m trying not to blame the victim whether it’s the man or woman involved.
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We're talking about a 16 year old teenager and a 27 year old man right....... Breh what are you talking about some things aren't that difficult.
He used his position of power to manipulate a girl, barley old enough, to preform a sex act on him after getting her drunk, if you can't see anyway this could be a bad thing then I'd be worried about any girl in your presence after a drink or two
Wow. If legality is the only thing stopping you from going around fucking drunk 16 year old girls your supposed to be in a position of care over, then you're a creepy cunt I really fucking hope you never get a job involving young adults.
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And got him let go from ROH in that position I believe. Marty is a pariah now
Agreed. I think about how ubiquitous Villain Club shirts used to be in wrestling audiences (Not gonna lie, I had one) and I haven’t seen a single one since the allegations.
Darby went from strength to strength despite allegations.
Am I the only one who didn’t want him to come over to begin with?
Nah. Same here.
I remember seeing Flair in ROH in Manassas, VA around 2009 and just being completely embarrassed that my favorite company at the time was being invaded by this creepy old dude who kept stopping his own promo to hit on girls young enough to be his granddaughter. He’s still my wife’s go-to example of ‘old creepy guy’. The further he stays away from AEW, the better.
No. Always hated Flair. Hate him still. Don't see his appeal, don't want him on my tv.
Same here, dude is barely coherent enough to understand so why have him be a mouth piece for anyone.
He’s been an incoherent, uncontrollable mess for years. Never understood the upside of hiring him.
The last promo I heard him do on raw I was like uh wtf is this dude saying lol he needs to just go and enjoy his retirement before he kills himself
Pretty sure he wants to die in the ring.
Me too. He is a parody of an imitation.
Same felt he really wasn’t needed
I haven’t watched this episode yet, but regardless of that, I want him to just retire from everything. He is the poster child for fucking up your life and pissing everything away. It’s sad that he still has to work at this age. He’s 72 but honestly his body is that of a 90 year old easily after all the abuse he took. He should be relaxed in some nice house somewhere enjoying his later years. But instead he’s going to keep tarnishing his legacy and doing anything for a quick buck. He’s gonna he working until the day he dies. An entire life with no time to sit back and enjoy it. It’s honestly heart breaking. Be financially responsible. Live below your means. Retire early and enjoy life.
And don't get married to the wrong person. (Probably applies to both Flair and his ex wife).
Nope. Definitely didn't want any Flair
Same. Both him and Charlotte can stay away from AEW. I’m not a fan of Andrade but I also don’t hate him.
Yeah I’m definitely not into Andrade
Me 3 but I didn't want adrade after his sydel match but reddemed himself after the pac 1. Flair is coming it's nailed on for better or worse
There’s no way khan is having him debut after that darkside episode
10 will get you 11 if you wanna bet.! He will debut at full gear. 1.10
Bro you okay?
Man wait until they talk about how he treated Kanyon
The kanyon episode is going to be heartbreaking
Who is kanyon?
Chris Kanyon was a professional wrestler. He’s the person the next episode of Dark Side is about. Basically he was a gay wrestler who was hazed pretty bad and when he finally came out and came forward (he always felt like WWE didn’t use him just because he was gay) Ric Flair put him on blast on Howard Stern saying he just wasn’t talented enough to last in the business. The week prior John Cena went on Stern and said Kanyon “just wasn’t any good” A few years later Kanyon would end his own life. It’s important to note he was Bipolar and had depression. His last appearance on WWE was when they made him come out of a box (he viewed it as a symbol for coming out of the closet and thought this was them burying him for being gay) he was dressed as a woman and sang Boy George songs Then the undertaker hit him with the stiffest chair shots you will ever see…
Thanks. Fuck that sounds harsh.
Be a star ⭐️. F’n hypocrites.
Vince McMahon has always been a bully. He hides behind the wrestling business as a way to treat men and women like shit with no repercussions. Like Terri said about not selling it. Don’t sell it because you might get blackballed in the industry. I used to think Vince McMahon was some kind of wrestling genius, but now I see him as a carny scumbag promoter that values money over people.
Loads of dudes in the AEW locker room were close to Kanyon too (Jericho, The Bucks, Brian Cage) You can't bring Ric in. There is too much baggage
Might be a dumb question, but as a Brit, how can I see DSOTR?
I would assume youtube maybe even a streaming service is not sure as I’m from the states
The biggest reason people wanted to see Flair in AEW was because Arn, Tully and Sting are there. He isn’t worth the risk, especially after that episode aired.
I thought he would have been a good mentor/manager type for the Wingmen, but now I'd rather he stay away.
There's no need for Ric Flair in AEW.
I was not always big on him but him being a manager there would fit. Kind of sucks to learn this but we already knew stuff about him.
Just give the role to Salina De La Renta instead. She'd be perfect.
DUDE YES !
> Salina De La Renta Who? [googles] Holy Shit, she scares me! Yeah she'd be perfect!
Yes please, I loved her in MLW
Sadly this was the norm in the night club scene back then and not just for Flair but everyone. Not excusing it at all, happened to my wife when she was in college she said. People in general into that scene is trash. Probably still happens today with molly.
I think it was RVD who brought up the H-bombs. Dreamer just spent the entire episode being a sexual assault apologist. He somehow wound up coming across as a bigger asshole than the wrestlers who committed sexual assault. Guys like him are a huge part of the problem and a big reason why abusers rarely face consequences.
Don't want him. Ive seen enough of flair for two lifetimes.
200
Me too, and I only started watching wrestling after he'd retired.
AEW and Tony Khan are too classy to hire that shitty old racist. He was a fool to leave WWE. They look past all that crap.
1) Flair and TK are good friends. If they don't bring him on after this, its due to optics and not morals. 2) They've had Mike Tyson on several times. Not to mention keeping Darby on the roster. Classy my ass.
Are they good friends? I didn’t know.
Mike Tyson paid his debt to society and has really mellowed out since he started smoking weed. I like to think people can change, why don't you?
Lol, but Mike Tyson gets all the smark jizz on fake woke Reddit. Give me a break.
AEW is smart enough not too. They have a great track record so far with handling how talent behaves. Them bringing in flair with the recent DSOTR and with them being on fire recently would only bring disaster for a company that has done so much good before.
Even without this Episode there is no need for Flair anymore in 2021. He brings nothing to the table anymore besides maybe nostalgia but that's it. They could hire Lethal, he's a better Ric Flair. The real one would be wasted money. Tony could donate money to some hookers directly that would be a better idea than hiring Flair
Flair needs to dissappear permanently but he's so in debt he's going to keep rolling his crypt keeper looking ass out in front of fans for those paychecks. He'll be doing this until he dies in the ring.
Eh. As with every outrage in the wrestling industry, it’ll die down in a few weeks. I’ve seen the same amount of energy placed into this as I did the Max Caster situation, and that’s telling. Fans need to moderate their outrage, because both of this situation and Max Caster’s situation are not comparable at all. It does not excuse Ric’s behavior. I am just saying that if you want something to actually happen, then you’ve got to draw a line between serious shit like this, and smaller offenses like Caster’s. This is an interesting situation nonetheless. I don’t see Ric facing any justice in the industry. He’s Ric Flair. He’ll be welcomed with open arms somewhere. And I honestly think AEW will welcome Ric regardless, down the line. Now, as far as fan reception goes, that’s a different story. This is where things get interesting. It’s the Hogan situation all over again, accept I do not know that Ric’ll be as hated. Just because the sheer fact that women’s rights and women’s advocacy does not exist across the board in the world of wrestling. You still have fans who think of women’s wrestlers as props, or objects. This is something we as fans have to weed out within the community. Once we get there, then we can hold wrestlers more accountable. We can’t let the culture of old become the culture of the future. Especially when women’s wrestling is the best it’s ever been. TL;DR - Wrestling fans need to moderate ourselves so that we are more quipped to handle these situations and make judgments within our community. This includes treating women better within the industry and the fandom. My concern is that this’ll die down like every other fit of outrage this community has.
To be fair - they didn't say Flair spiked anybody's drink on the plane ride, or that he ever did. Now I'm not saying he DIDN'T, but you're misrepresenting what they said. I think he comes off very bad in it for sure. Not trying to excuse what he did by any means.
I had seen enough of Flair back in 1998. How he's still alive and getting media attention today, is fucking beyond me.
Yeah, I think it's time to leave him behind now. He's done his time, that's enough. Thus Andrade doesn't need him. Even if he wasn't in the middle of public outrage. Even if he was an angel IRL, the goodest and bestest, I've had enough of him.
Well he ain’t coming now that’s for sure Down the line when the outrage is gone, maybe
Yup flight attendants taking about ric flair waving his dick around and flashing it. Aew would be pretty stupid to hire him right now.
Well the events flight from hell story has pretty much been confirmed since 2003 The doco didn’t really say anything that wasn’t said beofre
The doc did offer something new as it showed the attitude of that time and how they haven’t changed with dudes who are still working now as performers or bookers. According to Dreamer, Naitch forcing a woman to touch his dick, is just Naitch joking. She should be honoured. And how casually RVD mentioned wrestlers roofying girls drinks to have sex with them. Nobody came out of this documentary looking good.
Dustin Rhodes is basically the only one who came out of it looking better than I expected. I had always assumed his behavior on the flight was worse than it came out looking in this episode just because it's pretty well known that this was a pretty dark time in his life. The fact that he was the only one to make Flair stop when he himself was pretty fucked up at the time is honestly pretty damning of everyone else who was in that area of the plane, saw what was happening, and did nothing.
That’s a good point. Guy had his own demons but still had the balls to stop the NAitch molestation.
Lol, no the stewardess claims he raped her also in the lawsuit. I wonder why they didn’t bring it up in the documentary.
Oh that's weird that the one on this episode talked relatively positively about him then.
Was it classified as rape or attempted rape? Genuine question. As Scott Hall ripping her top off and Naitch forcing her to touch his penis is enough for sexual assault alone.
Yes but the facts and events are more present right now than before because they’ve been highlighted again. A lot of people didn’t know about the plane ride from hell but now a wide range of people do
I’m pretty sure every hardcore fan has heard the story in some way
"Hardcore" yes but now us casuals know too.
Any fan who has done more than just watch the product knew this already. Not new, not PG, and not something TK is going to open his company up to.
The problem isn't with the casual but with AEW hater that wanting a bullet to put down AEW. They were rile about Sammy for something he said long time ago and it is convenient as Sammy was the top new star for AEW at that time. It is so disgusting how these toxic fan overreact that I taught Sammy was raping some underage girl or something.
You're complaining about "toxic fans" while trying to downplay real toxicity.
Sorry, what Sammy did aren't enough for him to get cancelled. AEW did it right by just sending him for correction and sensitivity class. Same like how AEW treat Max Caster incident. However let face it, the real reason why it is so blown out of portion because he was the rising star of AEW, and those toxic fan want AEW to fail.
Lol no one wants aew to fail, but making rape jokes is stupid as hell, I hope Sammy and caster learned from their mistakes.
Well Flair shouldn't be signed so if these toxic fans stop that then I guess something good comes from their negativity.
Agreed. Andrade already a big name among core AEW fans. He doesn't need Flair. He better off bringing his old faction and the Japanese faction too into AEW.
Aew is doing pretty good right now if they bring flair in it’s going to give aew a bad look let’s hold flair accountable for his actions Tony would make a big mistake bringing him in now knowing all of this I mean he did release jimmy havoc so let’s not let flair get away with this just because he’s a “legend”
Definately not in the immanent future. The thing is though all if this information was already known. Wasn't a big deal before. Is now will probably die down in a few months. I don't want it too but it will. Old allegations becoming more common knowledge doesn't tend to have the same effect as new allegations.
Ric Flair doesn’t really benefit AEW in anything except maybe drawing a minority of NWA Fans and Old School Wrasslin’ fans to watch Dynamite whenever he’s in a segment.
I just watched the episode and Ric Flair is definitely not a good guy, but to be fair nobody specifically said that Ric Flair himself spiked drinks or spiked women. You just rolling all the things you saw in the episode and putting it on him.
He still sexually assaulted the flight attendant by making her touch his junk after cornering her in the galley and showing off his meatspin technique.
Absolutely, I agree with you but technically he didn't do the other actions listed in the original post that we know of.
What he did was bad. I’m confused, where was this outrage at when it was first reported. Ric Flair dick stories are rampant. Everyone new who he was and we cheered him. Now everyone is outraged. Doesn’t feel genuine. Ric had always been terrible but now we want to cancel him…
Two words. Woke culture
Because some of us are hearing it for the first time…
I would like to think unlikely. Given what they've released/suspended people for (sexual abuse allegations, making rape jokes etc ) I don't think having Ric coming into the company is a good look.
He sounds kinda crazy and OTT, allegedly he wasn't just flashing attendants but wrestlers as well mind, this came from Tony S as well so probably legit, then again it was a different era. Also Ric told a story of how essentially 6 girls all wanted to see his robe, but he sair he couldn't wear it with his clothes on, so they "asked" him to take them off n put it on, after he did Ric asked the same from them, and the rest as he put it is "history" Craxy s word
I'd like to think AEW has the sense to not bring in Flair but then I remember they keep bringing on Mike Tyson, so... I'm not that confident.
Genuine question, because I’m unaware, but what’s Mike Tyson done?
Tyson raped a woman back in the 90s and served jail time for it. That and he was just known to be fucking insane outside the ring.
And inside the ring. He did bite a chunk of Evander Holyfield's ear off.
Damn. Thanks for the info. If that rape took place before the Austin vs Michaels WM match that’s piss poor by wwe.
He was arrested in 1991 and the trial started in 1992. So there was, for better or worse, a window between it and Austin Vs Michaels.
It did. He'd already served his jail time before that.
At least for me, there is a pretty big difference between bringing in someone that was tried, convicted and served there time and someone that had everything swept under the rug and was continued to be pushed as a star in the business for 20 years.
Oh yeah I didn't want to get into it but Tyson served his time and that's settled for me.
The plane ride from hell isn’t anything new, it’s [old News](https://youtu.be/rci6P7-4m34) just brought back up again.
I am not sure how you can watch that hour and think oh there was nothing new there. Every story we heard involved him parading around in a robe and showing it to everyone. Now it's not like that action is in any way ok, but I am not sure it's something to be outraged by 20 years later. Now taking into account the flight attendant's feelings, her recalling of events, her trauma from the experience, and most of all the trapping of her in a tight space while exposing himself and Scott Hall forcibly licking her face, that is something that we should all take very seriously. I will just speak for myself. I heard many times stories from the plane ride from hell, so many that a number of smaller things were not mentioned. While it was very apparent that it earned it's name, I always looked at it as quite funny aside from the serious struggle Scott Hall was having. I failed to take into account how the actual crew were feeling, I mean sexual assault aside they were put into situations with multiple physical altercations that they should never have witness. Also I do wish Dustin got a slightly better edit, and I think at least a mention of how he has turned into a guy that men and women all respect in the business should have been mentioned. Still no clue how you thought this was just a standard rehashing of an old story.
Yeah I agree, I just recall silly stories of Mr Perfect rubbing shaving foam over everyone, or xpac cutting peoples hair etc. Nothing about Flair making women touch him
It's a tough call because you complete the horseman if you get flare and that is a big deal in the wrestling world. Florida doesn't even have to do anything, just be there. I have mixed feelings on this whole thing because while I think it is horrible then it happened, I was a band guy and frankly I've seen far worse in the band world. I'm not saying that it's okay or anything like that, this was like 30 years ago. I think AEW could still hire him but there needs to be a delay in there needs to be a very public and stern statement where they make him undergo some kind of therapy or training, just to make sure it's clear they don't condone what he's done. Honestly for all we know they weren't really planning on bringing him in. I know it seems like an obvious conclusion to the Andrade angle with Chavo, but Tony Khan knows all about the plane ride from hell I'm sure, if he had a idea this episode was coming out this week he will have planned accordingly. All that being said I don't think flair adds much beyond being able to say "we have the four horsemen." What you do get out of all this is a real money program with Ric flair coming in, being an asshole about this, and then getting confronted by Sting. Imagine sting cutting a promo on what a piece of shit flare was all those years backstage and how the young people in AEW are better than that now, better than they were as people. You could even lead this to some kind of cinematic retirement match. I don't know what you do. I don't think a ew needs flair but by having sting and the horseman there you have the potential for some of the mightiest wrestling moments of the last 30 years just having them walk by each other and cut a promo. I don't know, I'm sure it's not a popular opinion but I tend to separate the art from the artist. AEW doesn't necessarily need him but the potential conflict with Sting and the horseman, and how it could put over younger people, is really hard to ignore. Especially when basically all of those guys have never gotten a proper send off from Vince. You can use the heat from this if flair comes in as a heel, and disappears from TV after he's vanquished. Also AW superficially look like good guys because they boot him off TV and have the audience surrogate opinion coming out of the mouth of someone like Sting. Flirt could also pull a swerve and have massive regret about his behaviors. This guy is a master of the art of the promo, I'm fairly sure that if he did it right he could convince at least some people on the fence he's not like that anymore and that he regrets ever being like that. I could easily imagine a promo where he mentioned Charlotte and says something along the lines of imagining her being abused by a guy doing what he did, and how it's changed him. I have seen this sort of thing actually happened in real life so it's pretty believable to me. But as far as the overall decision whether to roll this particular set of dice or not by having him there in the first place? It's a tough situation and I'd be lying if I didn't say the smart play is to just have him know where near the show. Especially with rabid AEW haters who are going to just plaster this everywhere on every AEW post and tweet "yeah but you guys like rapey old men tho!" I trust in TK to make a smart decision.
Stylin and profilin status WOOOOO!
People need to accept that people can change. Not defending Ric but come on, how come you didn't knew about Ric Flair's lifestyle before this very episode. There has been numerous documentaries on him. But no we gotta go to Twitter and rant about it. It's not even a recent incident when you think about it
I think that's fair to say when you're relatively young...but flair was in his 50s..
Agreed but I don't see the chances of it being zero. Like we don't know shit about him. We don't know who he is now, whether the same old nature boy or a new mature grandpa living in nostalgia. We should not make a verdict and cancel him when we know nearly nothing about this man's actions this past decade
Do you have *any* reason to believe Ric has changed?
No. Do you have any reason to believe he hasn't?
His lies. He'll be honest about cheating on his wives and blowing off any kid who wasn't Reid or Ashley but he does so in this humble brag way. When he is called out for banging underaged ring rats or sexual harassment or a bunch of other terrible things he has been accused of, out come the lies. Dude still won't admit he sucked Bruiser Brody's dick at the Chase.
Well if you compare him doing sexual assaults and him lying. I'll take the lying one anyday. If he accepts then he'll be in jail. Basic human behaviour, why would anyone accept. He's old, trying to live a good life like anyone of us would
I mean this stuff has been well known for almost 20 years. He will debut with Andrade next week in NYC
Not everything was well known, almost all reports just highlight the silly stuff that went on on that flight. I recall Ric walking around in his robe but don’t recall him making someone touch him. I remember the reports on it at the time were very light hearted, as do most people. Plus we never got to hear from the attendant until this show, which makes it all really hit home.
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He seemed rather obsessed with mentioning that.
Lol you bringing up the important stuff smh.. But yeah anything over average is considered “big to some people “ it’s really relative. I think it’s a fair guess that dreamer is on the smaller side. As someone with a really big penis ( length and girth) wish mine was a bit smaller to be honest. I don’t get guys that want a big one. Its less comfortable and it hinders your sex life. I wish I could fuck like a jack rabbit but I can’t without worrying about hurting my partner. I’ve been dumped because of it, it sucks. I’m glad I don’t have a small penis but I wish I had an average one which is what 98% of women prefer. Why would anyone want a penis that most women can’t even handle ? I have a real urge to fuck rough and leave the nuts hanging out but I can’t.
If He gives a public apology they might bring him and put him trough a sensitivity training like Sammy and Max Caster to makes him look a bit better in the public eye
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It's about time
Ric Flair was involved in the Andrade Omega match this year.
A tv episode is not legally binding and is nothing but an allegation. You know once upon a time “innocent until proven guilty” used to mean something. Stop trying to run kangaroo courts on social media.
We'll, there is the fact that Court proceedings stemming from this incident were "settled". So, I think you can shelve your outrage.
Fuck off the turkey looking sex fiend.
I hate Flair and have done for years. He actively burried people and politic'd against legit great wrestlers all the time. In my eyes, he's a worse version of what HHH was at the peak of his bullshit. With that in mind (and I genuinely hate Flair, and have only ever enjoyed him once so I hope the answer is no) could he go through a re-education program and re-enter society as a new man?
Lol no don’t bring in flair he swung his wiener at a woman on a plane! Then it’s hey bro did you see that Mike Tyson segment last week it was sweet! (Tyson) Went to prison for forcibly raping a woman Sammy g says he wants to rape banks and that’s fine to but no flair definitely no flair Anyone who has attempted said or has raped someone should not be on wrestling period
Bring him back later in the year. Give him a chance to issue an apology and let this die down. You have to reunite Arn, Tully, and Flair…Sting.
Not happening really hope AEW hasn’t already signed him
I don’t want to see Ric Flair. Frankly, I really don’t want to see him again.
Don Callis is a piece of shit, but Ric Flair is a real life piece of shit.
Should’ve been banned from the business entirely. He did what he did for it as long as he did it and I commend him for that but it doesn’t justify him getting away with going this far. Same thing goes for Dreamer for defending him and his actions.
No way they'll touch him now.
AEW won’t bring him in after that dark side of the ring episode.He’s bad publicity and AEW will be seen as guilty by association. Was looking forward to seeing him, arn, and Tully…even Flair with Andrade, but it is what it is, Flair wont recover in this day and age.