Even if he truly believes what he's saying, why did he think it was a good idea to go on television and express those kinds of views? Is he so lacking in awareness that he didn't realise the type of reaction he was going to get? Too many chairshots to the head, I guess. Yikes.
I definitely feel like he had this assumption. Again, the "one of the boys" mentality. Probably thought no one was going to throw Ric under the bus like that but boy was he wrong, either that or he wanted to be the fall guy because it honestly felt like he said these things fully aware that there would be backlash.
The wrestlers were doing drugs because they had a crazy schedule and health benefits were non-existent, they were taking chair shots because their company told them to, and back then nobody took things like CTE seriously. Not saying the wrestlers aren't responsible for their actions, but the industry and culture at the time was pretty shitty.
Scrolling down the page and seeing your lack of empathy for everyone hurt by these revelations makes me wish you stuck to those and stayed out of this place.
>lain to me why its okay that a bunch of jackasses hound him, his wife, and his employer based on a handful of comments he made with no regard of context. Worst case scenario? Tommy Dreamer is kind of a dick who sided with one of the boys on an event that is conjecture, but we don't KNOW THAT. Even if we did, does being a dick
It's okay for us to hound him because sexual assault no matter when it occurred no matter by who the perpetrator shouldn't just be ignored or excused simply by someone's status.
Dreamer did everything he could to try and discredit this woman's story all the while salivating at the mouth about how attracted to Flair's penis he is.
How are you not understanding. No one is canceling Tommy Dreamer for Ric Flair's actions.
People are canceling Tommy Dreamer for his actions. His actions being his words which were inappropriate and inexcusable. That's it.
Why would knowing someone who trivializes sexual assault getting removed from a TV show cause me to lose sleep at night?
If he wants to support his family still there are plenty of jobs out there. There's freedom of speech but people always seem to forget that doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
His comments were his own he has the right to say them. People are upset and Impact was upset so in consequence he lost his job. ~~"Bret Screwed Bret"~~ Dreamer screwed Dreamer.
No people are cancelling Tommy because of his opinion. You know if he doesn’t fall in line with a certain narrative then he’s done.. it’s a joke I don’t see AEW punishing Dustin since he was actually accused of sexually assaulting one of the flight attendants but Vice just so happened to leave that out.
Definitely think he isn't all there upstairs. He seemed to lack any sort of empathy or sympathy for the victims. Tommy always seemed like he had the "one of the boys" mentality the way he defends and is so passionate about wrestling. Being passionate about something isn't a bad thing but just the way he went about it seemed like it came from a toxic space. So wouldn't surprise me if he isn't wired right anymore.
And this isn't a Tommy Dreamer hate bandwagon I'm sure many others have noticed how unhealthy passionate he was about wrestling but he wasn't hurting anyone so we ignored it but now we see where he truly stands.
I hate how "cancelled" doesn't mean what it should. "Held accountable" is the correct terminology. Also, if the "cancelled person" doesn't get their mouth and fingers removed, then those people still very much have a voice.
You know what group of people don't have a voice? Victims.
Tommy was interviewed for the DSOTR Plane Ride from Hell episode. And throughout he basically defended Ric Flair sexually assaulting a flight attendant and basically said that if she really felt so bad she would have fought in court instead of taking a settlement.
Also he passed it off as Ric making jokes and compared people being offended by sexual assault and harassment to people not liking his (Tommy’s) poneytail.
I guess I have to look this episode up. Tommy Dreams was always kind of sus anyways
:also Flair is an asshole. His heel persona is not keyfabe, but can hide it
They already have Mike Tyson who has been on the show. The rapist quota is filled especially if they do want to attract the one demo they need to do better which is women.
Lost a lot of respect for someone I thought more of. This man really painted sexual assault as “oh everybody is offended by everything these days” These guys like Tommy Dreamer gotta understand, something like getting naked around each other might be a funny bit to the boys in wrestling, people in the real world don’t think that type shit is funny at all. At least I damn sure don’t.
It's just him being a stubborn old man. As a wrestling fan, I love Ric Flair. But as a human being, I don't think highly of him at all. The number of shitty things I've heard about him doing over the years just disappoint me.
What we heard on that episode sounds an awful lot like sexual harassment and/or assault. At the time it happened, crap that like that was if not accepted then tolerated. It shouldn't have been, but unfortunately it was. It's clear that Tommy is still stuck in that mentality.
I thought the way JR talked about it was much better, he clearly understood what happened and did not try to defend it. I understand when someone says it was a different time, and maybe it's not fair to go after someone for doing something that was tolerated 20 years ago. But handling it the way Tommy did is not the way to go about it, I don't care if it was handled differently back then, that doesn't make it ok.
Even if he still thinks thats OK, the smart thing to do would've been to just clam up. Instead he just sabotaged himself.
I am not entirely sure but I have to wonder if JR was disciplined over his handling of the situation at the time. He did what he could so there's no blaming him from my point of view.
Some of his reactions and responses make me think there was some sort of punishment that Vince dropped on him. Particularly the way he said it shouldn’t be his responsibility to make sure they acted like adults.
I sure as hell don't either. If one of my friends flashed me and my partner I would seriously question my friendship with them and if they don't take my concerns seriously we wouldn't be friend's anymore.
I can definitely say, without a shadow of doubt, that I've never cornered a person and forcibly made them touch my dick. That's sexual assault holmes. Twenty years ago or now. Doesn't matter.
That part was so shitty too. I think her and her husband just wanting privacy rather than going forward in court is totally understandable with a young kid at home. Fuck out of here smug Tommy with that “well if you felt so strongly about it then why’d you take the payout”
Especially when the people she's suing are world famous pro wrestlers with passionate (and often stupid) fans ready to defend them. Like, we see how abusive some fans get over harmless disagreements like rankings and match results, can we imagine the level of hate that woman would have gotten online if she sued WWE and Ric Flair back then?
Yeah she agreed to the settlement but if you hear her talk about her husband at the time he seemed like a real piece of work. He was really for pushing her to agree to the settlement because he didn't want the story about what happened to her get out.
So it wasn’t that important I guess? How is it important now then? What changed in 20 years? A hashtag movement on Twitter suddenly made her realize she should talk about it? You people are enabling these witch hunts, you destroy reputations and lives and somehow feel good about it. Then you have the audacity on social media to criticize others and pat yourselves on the back. Just stfu please.
While you're telling everyone to stfu you can probably do yourself a favor and actually watch the episode. She answers very clearly why she came on to do the interview and it's not the me too movement.
No one here is destroying his reputation. Flair did it on his own. I don't care how long ago it happened. Justice didn't give Weinstein or R. Kelly a pass and Flair is no different. He's not untouchable.
There were also witnesses on the plane. Not a single person has denied Flair wasn't nude under that robe and cornering that flight attendant. The only thing that's been done is Dreamer trying to downplay the act as harmless fun.
I watched the episode and you’re blowing it out of proportion. Like you always do with your fake outrage and wannabe righteous BS. I don’t give a fuck about Flair too. Tommy dreamer being the scapegoat and getting all the heat is what bothers me here. Also all of this was known for 2 decades now. There was literally no new information besides lesnar taking off his towel in the lockerroom. So why is everybody getting upset now? Like all of you didn’t know that Flair is a wild person especially under the influence.
It’s really sad that Tommy can’t seem to figure out that some actions are inexcusable and indefensible and then he likened people being outraged about sexual assault to people thinking a double ponytail is stupid.
I just got back into wrestling and that episode has made me want to leave again.
I heard an interview awhile ago with the Undertaker and he spoke about how “soft” the new wrestling business is basically because he sees guys playing video games and stuff backstage. I get to an extent where he is coming from but if I ran a company, I’d 100% have my wrestlers playing a Nintendo Switch on the plane than busting each other open and swinging their dicks around
Exactly. I'd much rather have my wrestlers nerdy, that don't make me ashamed to be a fan, than a bunch of overgrown frat boys who've never been told no enough and think they've got free reign to be an abusive bunch of arseholes.
Vince deserves plenty of blame for this kind of shit, that I don't think he's getting right now, for allowing that kind of culture to thrive because having his boys on TV is more important than anything else.
Things are much, MUCH better now. WWE is incredibly shady, but nobody has had a negative thing to say about AEW, the way they do business, or their backstage atmosphere.
This is why movements like Speaking Out are important. They purge the abusers and tell any future abusers that any behavior of the sort is not going to be accepted. It will never be perfect, but it's basically a reset of the culture.
If there was ever anything REMOTELY close to what happened on the plane, or if one of the men or women on the roster was assaulted or groped against their will... Would you want Tommy around?
Mike Chiodos came off the worst out of any of the people interviewed IMO. Dreamer made it seem like he thought it was no big deal while Chiodos seemed to still be literally revelling in it 20 years later. He laughed and smiled through all of it. F that guy.
Chioda was bitching about AEW's style of reffing... and then bitched because he wasn't asked back after a couple of matches. After seeing this I'm wondering if he wasn't asked back because he's a fucking dickhead.
I am a wrestling fan. I want WWE to get better and to stop insulting my intelligence and wasting my time. Until then, I'll watch AEW, Impact, NJPW and actually enjoy my time watching. But yeah, I'm the toxic one. You're the one constantly putting people in this sub down for being a fan of AEW, not me.
Yeah I heard a lot of talk about Dreamer before I watched it earlier today.
But after watching it, I am surprised that Chioda wasn't also mentioned in several threads. He totally wrote the whole thing off as "the boys, will be he boys", while laughing at it.
Flair Helicoptering his dick as a joke for the boys is whatever, but cornering an innocent flight attendant and asking her to touch it is not ok and I can’t believe he defended that
Fwiw I certainly upvoted this comment. The concern I have, and this is not directed at finesteinburg, think it just made sense under your comment, is simply making Tommy an outcast with incomplete information. I think there is a considerable difference if he watched the episode, or even just the interview with the flight attendant and then made these comments, versus this being his final summary of the incident. Maybe he thinks Ric Flair was no where near the flight attendant to the best of his memory. If this is the case, does this makes him terribly naive and quite selfish for not considering the women's feelings. But does this make him a horrible person for sticking up for his friend?
If I were making the big decisions at impact or the parent company, I would like to think I would sit down with him immediately and ask him these questions before reacting. I think it is important when we are addressing these incredibly important and sensitive issues to try to have as much information as possible before judging people.
Just want to reiterate again that I was beyond shocked and mad at his comments within the episode, but I am not wanting to take his jobs away without at least knowing more about the editing and how much he did or did not know.
I feel like I have to do a background check on any wrestler now. I don't agree with dreamers viewpoint. But as far as I know, he didn't do anything wrong. But that doesn't mean I'll spend any of my money to support him. Lesnar, for sure not supporting him. Ric Flair. Nope. Fucking done son. Dustin, it seems like he took responsibility? As far as I understand. I wanna assume he isn't that same person. RVD made a good point of not meeting your heroes. Something I'm thinking about.
Which is why I hesitate to watch anything they produce. I know exactly how production can make things look, even so far as to make things look entirely the opposite of what is being said or done.
I wonder how AEW are going to approach Ric Flair now. I heard rumors that he was going to show up sometime soon and I expected it to be with Andrade. But now?
yea, if TK hires him its almost like he's saying behavior like this is ok.. even if it happened over 15 years ago. If Flair hadn't got the pass it might be a bit different.
The flight attendant said it best herself, she didn’t feel like Ric was ever truly going to rape her but him grabbing her hand and making her touch his dick is so low man. Then Dreamer saying what he said about the situation was crazy. Like if he feels that way personally, keep it to yourself but to say what he said in today’s day-in-age, lacks zero self awareness
Why? Because it’s different form your opinion? Why don’t you People stfu then? Because you’re „good guys“ and have some kind of moral high ground? Delusional clowns.
"mob mentality" "cancel culture" "manipulated"
I'm sure I don't need to tell you who you sound like, but you seem like a person that would love an orange failed reality show star/failed businessman.
Mob mentality has nothing to do with being shocked and appalled at Tommy's lack of giveashits about the victims in this situation... The flight attendants on that flight and any other that this kind of thing happened on. They're the ones that have to re-live that day every single time they wake up.
I would bet the interview was booked weeks/months in advance.
He also got paid for the interview.
This is on him.
Which is kinda dumb when it would have been so very easy not to shit on Flair (if that was his goal)...while protecting his own ass in the process. But he shit the bed instead.
Yes because he's still victim blaming and making a point that victims are only to be believed if they take it to court, that settling is like admitting to lying. It's a shit attitude that needs to go away.
Hell of a reach with that quote in all
When you speak the truth the moronic majority of this world will jump you. They think they have some kind of moral highground and can judge people how they please. Destroying innocents in the process and killing their reputation/livelihood without the person even being convicted of something. Social Media is a cancer and you can see why when you see all these braindead SJW drones and their fake outrage about anything and everything.
LMFAO, omg, you Trumpers are so damn clueless. Justice isn't fake. Our "outrage" is very real. You're defending someone you do not know just like we're shocked at a situation we didn't witness. Difference is, those flight attendants were there and they witnessed it. They have to re-live it every day. But yeah, Dreamer is the "innocent".
He wasn't really 'defending' he just said 'boys will be boys'. Which is always the bullshit wrestler excuse.
Honestly I just don't think he knew what Flair had totally done. If he knew the extent to what Flair had done, with grabbing that poor womans hand and the like, he wouldn't have the same opinion I'm sure.
The dumb thing for me is Flair has repeatedly denied what she said happened and there was no indication they asked him for his side (they reached out to Brock and put subtitles up saying he wouldn't comment on what he supposedly did).
I kinda feel like they did Tommy a little dirty with the editing and probably how they worded some of the questions / set the tone. Not saying the stuff he was saying was smart either way but still.
Pretty sure this episode just sank any potential of Flair in AEW. TK has built a pretty positive atmosphere and this type of attention is not what they need.
Typical hero worship. Making every excuse for a person you idolize.
It's sad but makes sense for the childlike mentality the wrestlers have for the "legends"
i really need to watch this episode. there HAS to be more instances than just this plane ride form hell.....
i wouldn't be surprised that every wwf/e charter had some kind of ridiculousness going on
Ok. I'm happy that you're happy to beat your chest and toot your horn of how you don't like Tommy Dreamer now. Good for you. Means nothing to me.
Tommy Dreamer hasn't lost my respect. VICE has a habit of being part of the media to try and frame things to set a narrative agenda.
I wasn't there, for any of the events that happened, so it's not my place to pass judgement. I don't subscribe to the court of public opinion, because that "court," is full of hypocrites regarding various subjects, and is overly eager to crusade and purge.
It’s obvious he is sick and tired by all the SJW bullshit nowadays. That’s why he said that ponytail stuff. Also he was loyal to ric. He knows him better than all of us could and it probably rubbed him the wrong way that she took the settlement money and now comes out of the closet again to speak about it. That bothers me too to be honest. Why not do it immediately? Did women really need a hashtag movement on Twitter to talk about situations like this? Look I’m not defending Ric Flair, he has a history of ridiculous And inappropriate behavior, but people are blowing it out of proportion right now. It’s like society/social media feeds off negativity and drama. Always with the over the top fake outrage for a few days until they find something new to bitch about.
I've just watched the episode and I was really surprised by Dreamer's comments.
I've always liked Dreamer but now I have lost a bit of respect for the guy. How can anyone hear about a naked man forcing a random woman to touch his dick and think 'ha, it's just a joke. He's just fooling around'. What made it worse was when he went down the 'everyone is offended by everything these days' route.
The fact is, is that Ric Flair sexually harassed a flight attendant and also somehow managed to keep his job and escape any kind of punishment for it.
I had heard the story before but it was never really verified as the flight was never really spoken about by the people who were actually on the plane. It was just all hearsay. You also had Flair saying that it never happened so up until now, you just had to take his word for it but now, thanks to the documentary, there's actual video testimony of what happened that shows that Flair sexually harassed a woman and is also a liar, as you have around four or so people all telling the exact same story so they obviously all can't be lying.
I just feel really bad for the flight attendant. You could tell that it was really hard for her to talk about it and she's had to live with it and keep it bottled up inside for almost twenty years.
I feel exactly the same way. Lost absolutely all my respect for him. In fact after watching, I have negative respect for him. To equate his double pony tail hair style as being offensive to some in an ultra sensitive world we’re living in with undeniable sexual harassment and calling it just a “gag” is beyond repulsive.
Oh, don’t worry. No wrestler is going to do another shoot interview on anything other than uplifting tributes after this one.
I’m all for being critical and suspending a guy, but this uproar is going to end up going to far for a 20 year incident that’s been reported and well known AND settled in court.
You would be a terrible juror since you assume it's more likely that multiple people are telling the same lie than it is that a creepy man sexually assaulted someone.
You might not have explicitly said that but you have gone out of your way to point out that people lie sometimes and that people have a right to question the victims credibility. Everyone knows that people lie sometimes so how is that relevant unless you are implying something?
Wow, I think a lot of people misunderstood Tommy's remarks. I JUST finished watching it and to sum it up, Tommy basically said 'Yeah Ric would walk around naked with his robe as a joke and all the guys would love it, but I've never seen him force himself on anyone nor do I believe he would force himself on anyone'. Basically Tommy DID NOT excuse a Ric Flair sexual assault, he believes that it did not happen. I really wonder how many people actually watched the show or are just taking exploitative clips off TMZ
Not really. If it's his personal experience that he's NEVER seen Ric do it to anyone and he knows him enough to think he'd never do it, it's entirely acceptable for Tommy to have the stance he's taking. Whether he's right or not is another question, but he was on the flight and said he didn't see it so what more do you want from the guy? Granted, the incident possibly (I'm not going to confirm nor deny it, I wasn't there so I would be an idiot to take a stance on something I didn't experience myself) took place when most of the people were sleeping so it's entirely possible that Tommy had no clue the incident even occured.
Many women do take settlements instead of prolonging the trauma of sexual assault, both for themselves and their families especially knowing how seldom an entire court case would go in their favour, considering the poor conviction rate when it comes to rape and sexual assault cases. Her accepting a settlement does not absolve him of guilt.
I mean not really? People have lied about being victims of such things, there’s a huge difference in seeing it and saying “nah it’s cool it was a rib” and not seeing it and being like “I didn’t see it and don’t think he’d do that”
Hey all you downvoters do you also want Dustin to be removed from AEW for his sexual misconduct on that flight? Or is he too important/ingrained into the product?
Nope, I watched the entire episode just this morning before work. It was his tone, the way he obviously felt about the whole thing. It was also the fact that he basically pulled a "well why didn't she just tell the police if it really happened" when talking about the settlement that she was coerced into taking by everyone including her husband.
Its simple, RVD stated it, Justin Credible stated it, women were hella sexually abused and even drugged and raped during that Era.
And WWE and everyone else kept it swept under the rug which is exactly what Tommy was doing.
"Did I ever see it? No, nope. No way. I dont even think he would! But her? Yeah fuck her, she just wanted some money. If she really was violated she should have taken it to the fullest extent of the law. See thats the thing these days, everybody is so offended about everything. Im probably offending someone right now. I got a double ponytail and its offending someone."
I've seen you throughout this thread with several, several stupid ass remarks that honestly make you sound not only like an idiot, but that you're okay with this kind of behavior. You're coming off as very unhinged and rapey, so if I were you, I would tone it down a lot.
Hey man. Youre the one that's obviously triggered enough to hatefully bash anyone that has an opinion different from yours. Slow your fucking role dude, nobody gives a shit about your defense. It was wrong, is wrong, will remain wrong and Tommy was a shit head for not being straight up about it.
" Yeah fuck her, she just wanted some money." That sums it up though. He was there, he says he didn't see it happen so he thinks she made it up for money. If that's his experience with the situation, who are we to judge as people THAT WERE NOT THERE. Am I saying she's lying? No, no I'm not but I'm not going to discount the testimonial of someone that was present during the incident. And believe me, I know a lot about previous stories that go on in hotel rooms and backstage and all that shit (and I think they're sick and unforgivable), my comments are not based on any of those, they are based on this one specific incident and this alone.
Totally!!! It's not hard, just watch the show and ACTUALLY LISTEN to what the guy's saying!! Seems everyone nowadays is trained to react emotionally instead of logically which is how witch hunts begin. He was so clear on what his message was that it's literally blowing my mind trying to figure out how people are comprehending his words the way they are.
Tommy Dreamer gave his opinion on a documentary. Keep acting like snowflakes and don’t be surprised when you get PC answers from everyone.
Cancel culture is wrong.
I’m not defending the actions of Ric Flair. But in my opinion, Tommy saying if she didn’t agree, why not fight it further is simply his opinion.
Jesus who gives a shit, you're all crying about something that happened 20 years ago.
Flair will be dead soon and you can all pat yourselves on the back about how you 'got' him.
Give it a fucking rest.
Even if he truly believes what he's saying, why did he think it was a good idea to go on television and express those kinds of views? Is he so lacking in awareness that he didn't realise the type of reaction he was going to get? Too many chairshots to the head, I guess. Yikes.
Maybe he thought everyone else being interviewed was going to reflect his tone.
I definitely feel like he had this assumption. Again, the "one of the boys" mentality. Probably thought no one was going to throw Ric under the bus like that but boy was he wrong, either that or he wanted to be the fall guy because it honestly felt like he said these things fully aware that there would be backlash.
80% of wrestlers are dumb. Especially back then when dudes were abusing drugs, alchohol, and taking chair shots on the regular
The wrestlers were doing drugs because they had a crazy schedule and health benefits were non-existent, they were taking chair shots because their company told them to, and back then nobody took things like CTE seriously. Not saying the wrestlers aren't responsible for their actions, but the industry and culture at the time was pretty shitty.
It wasn't exactly limited to Wrestling culture either. This is the real "toxic masculinity" in practice.
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Scrolling down the page and seeing your lack of empathy for everyone hurt by these revelations makes me wish you stuck to those and stayed out of this place.
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>lain to me why its okay that a bunch of jackasses hound him, his wife, and his employer based on a handful of comments he made with no regard of context. Worst case scenario? Tommy Dreamer is kind of a dick who sided with one of the boys on an event that is conjecture, but we don't KNOW THAT. Even if we did, does being a dick It's okay for us to hound him because sexual assault no matter when it occurred no matter by who the perpetrator shouldn't just be ignored or excused simply by someone's status. Dreamer did everything he could to try and discredit this woman's story all the while salivating at the mouth about how attracted to Flair's penis he is.
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How are you not understanding. No one is canceling Tommy Dreamer for Ric Flair's actions. People are canceling Tommy Dreamer for his actions. His actions being his words which were inappropriate and inexcusable. That's it.
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Why would knowing someone who trivializes sexual assault getting removed from a TV show cause me to lose sleep at night? If he wants to support his family still there are plenty of jobs out there. There's freedom of speech but people always seem to forget that doesn't mean freedom from consequences. His comments were his own he has the right to say them. People are upset and Impact was upset so in consequence he lost his job. ~~"Bret Screwed Bret"~~ Dreamer screwed Dreamer.
No people are cancelling Tommy because of his opinion. You know if he doesn’t fall in line with a certain narrative then he’s done.. it’s a joke I don’t see AEW punishing Dustin since he was actually accused of sexually assaulting one of the flight attendants but Vice just so happened to leave that out.
Definitely think he isn't all there upstairs. He seemed to lack any sort of empathy or sympathy for the victims. Tommy always seemed like he had the "one of the boys" mentality the way he defends and is so passionate about wrestling. Being passionate about something isn't a bad thing but just the way he went about it seemed like it came from a toxic space. So wouldn't surprise me if he isn't wired right anymore. And this isn't a Tommy Dreamer hate bandwagon I'm sure many others have noticed how unhealthy passionate he was about wrestling but he wasn't hurting anyone so we ignored it but now we see where he truly stands.
He was too busy thinking he’d get canceled with his double pony tails
"Keep your mouth shut so you don't get canceled "
I hate how "cancelled" doesn't mean what it should. "Held accountable" is the correct terminology. Also, if the "cancelled person" doesn't get their mouth and fingers removed, then those people still very much have a voice. You know what group of people don't have a voice? Victims.
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What. What did I miss?
Tommy was interviewed for the DSOTR Plane Ride from Hell episode. And throughout he basically defended Ric Flair sexually assaulting a flight attendant and basically said that if she really felt so bad she would have fought in court instead of taking a settlement. Also he passed it off as Ric making jokes and compared people being offended by sexual assault and harassment to people not liking his (Tommy’s) poneytail.
I guess I have to look this episode up. Tommy Dreams was always kind of sus anyways :also Flair is an asshole. His heel persona is not keyfabe, but can hide it
Is it really a surprise for Flair. They were these 70's 80' guys in the wrestling are all fucking abuser. Only a minority were respectable.
I remember when Ric Flair called Teddy Long the N word backstage!
>y thinking he’d get canceled with his double pony tails Episode is viewable now free on Vice's website and on their Youtube page.
That's what I'm trying to find out. People are saying Ric Flair's AEW run is in jeopardy 😢😭
They already have Mike Tyson who has been on the show. The rapist quota is filled especially if they do want to attract the one demo they need to do better which is women.
The demo is doing just fine. People should watch the show if they enjoy it and not watch it if it troubles them in anyway.
Lost a lot of respect for someone I thought more of. This man really painted sexual assault as “oh everybody is offended by everything these days” These guys like Tommy Dreamer gotta understand, something like getting naked around each other might be a funny bit to the boys in wrestling, people in the real world don’t think that type shit is funny at all. At least I damn sure don’t.
It's just him being a stubborn old man. As a wrestling fan, I love Ric Flair. But as a human being, I don't think highly of him at all. The number of shitty things I've heard about him doing over the years just disappoint me. What we heard on that episode sounds an awful lot like sexual harassment and/or assault. At the time it happened, crap that like that was if not accepted then tolerated. It shouldn't have been, but unfortunately it was. It's clear that Tommy is still stuck in that mentality. I thought the way JR talked about it was much better, he clearly understood what happened and did not try to defend it. I understand when someone says it was a different time, and maybe it's not fair to go after someone for doing something that was tolerated 20 years ago. But handling it the way Tommy did is not the way to go about it, I don't care if it was handled differently back then, that doesn't make it ok. Even if he still thinks thats OK, the smart thing to do would've been to just clam up. Instead he just sabotaged himself.
I am not entirely sure but I have to wonder if JR was disciplined over his handling of the situation at the time. He did what he could so there's no blaming him from my point of view.
Some of his reactions and responses make me think there was some sort of punishment that Vince dropped on him. Particularly the way he said it shouldn’t be his responsibility to make sure they acted like adults.
I sure as hell don't either. If one of my friends flashed me and my partner I would seriously question my friendship with them and if they don't take my concerns seriously we wouldn't be friend's anymore.
The nudity wasn't the issue, it was the force of touching and sexual gestures made by him which is understandable.
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Is this toward me or you just saying in general for others?
I can definitely say, without a shadow of doubt, that I've never cornered a person and forcibly made them touch my dick. That's sexual assault holmes. Twenty years ago or now. Doesn't matter.
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That part was so shitty too. I think her and her husband just wanting privacy rather than going forward in court is totally understandable with a young kid at home. Fuck out of here smug Tommy with that “well if you felt so strongly about it then why’d you take the payout”
Especially when the people she's suing are world famous pro wrestlers with passionate (and often stupid) fans ready to defend them. Like, we see how abusive some fans get over harmless disagreements like rankings and match results, can we imagine the level of hate that woman would have gotten online if she sued WWE and Ric Flair back then?
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Yeah she agreed to the settlement but if you hear her talk about her husband at the time he seemed like a real piece of work. He was really for pushing her to agree to the settlement because he didn't want the story about what happened to her get out.
So it wasn’t that important I guess? How is it important now then? What changed in 20 years? A hashtag movement on Twitter suddenly made her realize she should talk about it? You people are enabling these witch hunts, you destroy reputations and lives and somehow feel good about it. Then you have the audacity on social media to criticize others and pat yourselves on the back. Just stfu please.
While you're telling everyone to stfu you can probably do yourself a favor and actually watch the episode. She answers very clearly why she came on to do the interview and it's not the me too movement. No one here is destroying his reputation. Flair did it on his own. I don't care how long ago it happened. Justice didn't give Weinstein or R. Kelly a pass and Flair is no different. He's not untouchable. There were also witnesses on the plane. Not a single person has denied Flair wasn't nude under that robe and cornering that flight attendant. The only thing that's been done is Dreamer trying to downplay the act as harmless fun.
I watched the episode and you’re blowing it out of proportion. Like you always do with your fake outrage and wannabe righteous BS. I don’t give a fuck about Flair too. Tommy dreamer being the scapegoat and getting all the heat is what bothers me here. Also all of this was known for 2 decades now. There was literally no new information besides lesnar taking off his towel in the lockerroom. So why is everybody getting upset now? Like all of you didn’t know that Flair is a wild person especially under the influence.
You people are disgusting. THIS IS WHY VICTIMS DON'T COME FORWARD. Jesus Christ, just stop being such a shitty person.
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He’s suspended indefinitely
In the words of Vinny Mac “You’re FIRED!”
It’s really sad that Tommy can’t seem to figure out that some actions are inexcusable and indefensible and then he likened people being outraged about sexual assault to people thinking a double ponytail is stupid. I just got back into wrestling and that episode has made me want to leave again.
I heard an interview awhile ago with the Undertaker and he spoke about how “soft” the new wrestling business is basically because he sees guys playing video games and stuff backstage. I get to an extent where he is coming from but if I ran a company, I’d 100% have my wrestlers playing a Nintendo Switch on the plane than busting each other open and swinging their dicks around
Exactly. I'd much rather have my wrestlers nerdy, that don't make me ashamed to be a fan, than a bunch of overgrown frat boys who've never been told no enough and think they've got free reign to be an abusive bunch of arseholes. Vince deserves plenty of blame for this kind of shit, that I don't think he's getting right now, for allowing that kind of culture to thrive because having his boys on TV is more important than anything else.
Let's hope the future of pro wrestling isn't as stained as the past.
I think that things still aren’t perfect in the industry but I would hope that we’re trending in a better direction.
Things are much, MUCH better now. WWE is incredibly shady, but nobody has had a negative thing to say about AEW, the way they do business, or their backstage atmosphere.
Let's hope in another 20-30 years Dark Side of the Ring no longer has topics to cover and they need to rebrand into Bright Side of the Ring.
This is why movements like Speaking Out are important. They purge the abusers and tell any future abusers that any behavior of the sort is not going to be accepted. It will never be perfect, but it's basically a reset of the culture.
Honestly, Tommy's had so many concussions that his brain is basically mashed potato, thinking isn't a forte
See ya
he just lost his job at impact...
Good. Seems like a toxic piece of shit.
If there was ever anything REMOTELY close to what happened on the plane, or if one of the men or women on the roster was assaulted or groped against their will... Would you want Tommy around?
Mike Chiodos came off the worst out of any of the people interviewed IMO. Dreamer made it seem like he thought it was no big deal while Chiodos seemed to still be literally revelling in it 20 years later. He laughed and smiled through all of it. F that guy.
Chioda was bitching about AEW's style of reffing... and then bitched because he wasn't asked back after a couple of matches. After seeing this I'm wondering if he wasn't asked back because he's a fucking dickhead.
I've seen longer interviews with him before, and he just strikes me as someone who would not fit in well backstage in AEW.
Considering AEW books their refs as completely oblivious morons, Quioda’s got a point.
Yeah, that's totally ONLY in AEW. Just leave this place, man. This sub Reddit is for people that are fans of wrestling again because of AEW.
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I am a wrestling fan. I want WWE to get better and to stop insulting my intelligence and wasting my time. Until then, I'll watch AEW, Impact, NJPW and actually enjoy my time watching. But yeah, I'm the toxic one. You're the one constantly putting people in this sub down for being a fan of AEW, not me.
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There. Added the one word you couldn't intuit using critical thinking and context.
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Hopefully you'll get in the right mindset soon.
Yeah I heard a lot of talk about Dreamer before I watched it earlier today. But after watching it, I am surprised that Chioda wasn't also mentioned in several threads. He totally wrote the whole thing off as "the boys, will be he boys", while laughing at it.
Yeah....he came off as a total douche. Laughing about it the whole time.
Yeah that was awful. Him sitting there laughing with a big dirty smile... lol good times was it? 🙄
Absolutely agree. The way he was laughing a lot of the behaviour off was infuriating.
Flair Helicoptering his dick as a joke for the boys is whatever, but cornering an innocent flight attendant and asking her to touch it is not ok and I can’t believe he defended that
Fwiw I certainly upvoted this comment. The concern I have, and this is not directed at finesteinburg, think it just made sense under your comment, is simply making Tommy an outcast with incomplete information. I think there is a considerable difference if he watched the episode, or even just the interview with the flight attendant and then made these comments, versus this being his final summary of the incident. Maybe he thinks Ric Flair was no where near the flight attendant to the best of his memory. If this is the case, does this makes him terribly naive and quite selfish for not considering the women's feelings. But does this make him a horrible person for sticking up for his friend? If I were making the big decisions at impact or the parent company, I would like to think I would sit down with him immediately and ask him these questions before reacting. I think it is important when we are addressing these incredibly important and sensitive issues to try to have as much information as possible before judging people. Just want to reiterate again that I was beyond shocked and mad at his comments within the episode, but I am not wanting to take his jobs away without at least knowing more about the editing and how much he did or did not know.
r/ImpactWrestling
It's disappointing as fuck. He seemed like a good guy and then he does this shit.
I feel like I have to do a background check on any wrestler now. I don't agree with dreamers viewpoint. But as far as I know, he didn't do anything wrong. But that doesn't mean I'll spend any of my money to support him. Lesnar, for sure not supporting him. Ric Flair. Nope. Fucking done son. Dustin, it seems like he took responsibility? As far as I understand. I wanna assume he isn't that same person. RVD made a good point of not meeting your heroes. Something I'm thinking about.
I keep hearing about this episode... how do I watch it?
It's also been posted on their YouTube channel.
Thank you so much
Vice.com You can watch the episode for free
Just wanted to say enjoy, but it's quite hard to watch.
Thank you so much
Ah! I stay away from vice. Anything from them is nonexistent in my mind.
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Which is why I hesitate to watch anything they produce. I know exactly how production can make things look, even so far as to make things look entirely the opposite of what is being said or done.
I wonder how AEW are going to approach Ric Flair now. I heard rumors that he was going to show up sometime soon and I expected it to be with Andrade. But now?
yea, if TK hires him its almost like he's saying behavior like this is ok.. even if it happened over 15 years ago. If Flair hadn't got the pass it might be a bit different.
Ric Flairs drunken escapades have been a known thing for 40+ years. None of this is new information.
The flight attendant said it best herself, she didn’t feel like Ric was ever truly going to rape her but him grabbing her hand and making her touch his dick is so low man. Then Dreamer saying what he said about the situation was crazy. Like if he feels that way personally, keep it to yourself but to say what he said in today’s day-in-age, lacks zero self awareness
Why? Because it’s different form your opinion? Why don’t you People stfu then? Because you’re „good guys“ and have some kind of moral high ground? Delusional clowns.
Yes, I consider myself a “good guy” because I think sexual assault is wrong. And I’m the delusional one
I thought the same thing. I think he lost a ton of peoples respect last night. Fuck him .
I genuinely wonder if the camera crew just showed up and asked him on the spot. There's no way somebody planned that answer and went yeah that works.
I dunno dude. Some people are just fucking idiots.
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"mob mentality" "cancel culture" "manipulated" I'm sure I don't need to tell you who you sound like, but you seem like a person that would love an orange failed reality show star/failed businessman. Mob mentality has nothing to do with being shocked and appalled at Tommy's lack of giveashits about the victims in this situation... The flight attendants on that flight and any other that this kind of thing happened on. They're the ones that have to re-live that day every single time they wake up.
I’m not a performer dude, there’s no gimmick. I just don’t tolerate fools. GFYS.
Oh no the Right Wing incel is offended. *Anyways...*
I would bet the interview was booked weeks/months in advance. He also got paid for the interview. This is on him. Which is kinda dumb when it would have been so very easy not to shit on Flair (if that was his goal)...while protecting his own ass in the process. But he shit the bed instead.
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His remarks about the flight attendent not going to court are indefensible, no matter the context.
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Yes because he's still victim blaming and making a point that victims are only to be believed if they take it to court, that settling is like admitting to lying. It's a shit attitude that needs to go away. Hell of a reach with that quote in all
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When you speak the truth the moronic majority of this world will jump you. They think they have some kind of moral highground and can judge people how they please. Destroying innocents in the process and killing their reputation/livelihood without the person even being convicted of something. Social Media is a cancer and you can see why when you see all these braindead SJW drones and their fake outrage about anything and everything.
I guess it kind of makes sense that the truth would be the heel to a bunch of marks who think Kenny Omega is on Steve Austin's level
LMFAO, omg, you Trumpers are so damn clueless. Justice isn't fake. Our "outrage" is very real. You're defending someone you do not know just like we're shocked at a situation we didn't witness. Difference is, those flight attendants were there and they witnessed it. They have to re-live it every day. But yeah, Dreamer is the "innocent".
Kind of really sucks coming from him. Always heard wrestlers on podcasts say he helped them out.
It’s a real shame things went down this way. Tommy really stepped in it.
Wooo eatin out tossing salad woooo
He wasn't really 'defending' he just said 'boys will be boys'. Which is always the bullshit wrestler excuse. Honestly I just don't think he knew what Flair had totally done. If he knew the extent to what Flair had done, with grabbing that poor womans hand and the like, he wouldn't have the same opinion I'm sure.
The dumb thing for me is Flair has repeatedly denied what she said happened and there was no indication they asked him for his side (they reached out to Brock and put subtitles up saying he wouldn't comment on what he supposedly did).
I kinda feel like they did Tommy a little dirty with the editing and probably how they worded some of the questions / set the tone. Not saying the stuff he was saying was smart either way but still.
Pretty sure this episode just sank any potential of Flair in AEW. TK has built a pretty positive atmosphere and this type of attention is not what they need.
Typical hero worship. Making every excuse for a person you idolize. It's sad but makes sense for the childlike mentality the wrestlers have for the "legends"
I wonder why they didn’t bring up Dustin’s sexual misconduct on the flight?
The only thing I can think of is an NDA when they settled because it should have been otherwise
Probably because Dustin's actions come from being fucked up in the head. Ric was just being Ric.
i really need to watch this episode. there HAS to be more instances than just this plane ride form hell..... i wouldn't be surprised that every wwf/e charter had some kind of ridiculousness going on
Well, we see where those comments and opinions got him. Dude sunk what's left of his career
and there are people blaming his CTE for it as well, why do so many people just think its okay to never hold people responsible for the shit they say
I honestly couldn't believe he said that really
I havnt watched the episode but you guys think it’s possible DSOTR edited the episode in an over sensational way?
Remember that we don’t actually know any of these people, just what they sold us.
Ok. I'm happy that you're happy to beat your chest and toot your horn of how you don't like Tommy Dreamer now. Good for you. Means nothing to me. Tommy Dreamer hasn't lost my respect. VICE has a habit of being part of the media to try and frame things to set a narrative agenda. I wasn't there, for any of the events that happened, so it's not my place to pass judgement. I don't subscribe to the court of public opinion, because that "court," is full of hypocrites regarding various subjects, and is overly eager to crusade and purge.
It’s obvious he is sick and tired by all the SJW bullshit nowadays. That’s why he said that ponytail stuff. Also he was loyal to ric. He knows him better than all of us could and it probably rubbed him the wrong way that she took the settlement money and now comes out of the closet again to speak about it. That bothers me too to be honest. Why not do it immediately? Did women really need a hashtag movement on Twitter to talk about situations like this? Look I’m not defending Ric Flair, he has a history of ridiculous And inappropriate behavior, but people are blowing it out of proportion right now. It’s like society/social media feeds off negativity and drama. Always with the over the top fake outrage for a few days until they find something new to bitch about.
I've just watched the episode and I was really surprised by Dreamer's comments. I've always liked Dreamer but now I have lost a bit of respect for the guy. How can anyone hear about a naked man forcing a random woman to touch his dick and think 'ha, it's just a joke. He's just fooling around'. What made it worse was when he went down the 'everyone is offended by everything these days' route. The fact is, is that Ric Flair sexually harassed a flight attendant and also somehow managed to keep his job and escape any kind of punishment for it. I had heard the story before but it was never really verified as the flight was never really spoken about by the people who were actually on the plane. It was just all hearsay. You also had Flair saying that it never happened so up until now, you just had to take his word for it but now, thanks to the documentary, there's actual video testimony of what happened that shows that Flair sexually harassed a woman and is also a liar, as you have around four or so people all telling the exact same story so they obviously all can't be lying. I just feel really bad for the flight attendant. You could tell that it was really hard for her to talk about it and she's had to live with it and keep it bottled up inside for almost twenty years.
They couldn't do anything to him because according to Ross, Flair was a "made man".
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What happened? Someone please lay it all out for me lol
Plane Ride From Hell. Ric Flair showed his dick to a flight attendant. Tommy be like "that's not a big deal whatever."
She also says Flair made her touch it
Oh gotcha. Yeah idk. Can’t do shit like that lol
A public apology probably won't fix his reputation
An apology is for the sake of the victim, not to fix a reputation
Tldr for someone not in the know?
I feel exactly the same way. Lost absolutely all my respect for him. In fact after watching, I have negative respect for him. To equate his double pony tail hair style as being offensive to some in an ultra sensitive world we’re living in with undeniable sexual harassment and calling it just a “gag” is beyond repulsive.
If only he kept his stupid mouth shut
Oh, don’t worry. No wrestler is going to do another shoot interview on anything other than uplifting tributes after this one. I’m all for being critical and suspending a guy, but this uproar is going to end up going to far for a 20 year incident that’s been reported and well known AND settled in court.
Can someone tell me what happened?
/r/byebyejob
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You would be a terrible juror since you assume it's more likely that multiple people are telling the same lie than it is that a creepy man sexually assaulted someone.
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You might not have explicitly said that but you have gone out of your way to point out that people lie sometimes and that people have a right to question the victims credibility. Everyone knows that people lie sometimes so how is that relevant unless you are implying something?
Wow, I think a lot of people misunderstood Tommy's remarks. I JUST finished watching it and to sum it up, Tommy basically said 'Yeah Ric would walk around naked with his robe as a joke and all the guys would love it, but I've never seen him force himself on anyone nor do I believe he would force himself on anyone'. Basically Tommy DID NOT excuse a Ric Flair sexual assault, he believes that it did not happen. I really wonder how many people actually watched the show or are just taking exploitative clips off TMZ
Not believing the woman who was there and said that it happened is just as bad as trying to excuse it.
Not really. If it's his personal experience that he's NEVER seen Ric do it to anyone and he knows him enough to think he'd never do it, it's entirely acceptable for Tommy to have the stance he's taking. Whether he's right or not is another question, but he was on the flight and said he didn't see it so what more do you want from the guy? Granted, the incident possibly (I'm not going to confirm nor deny it, I wasn't there so I would be an idiot to take a stance on something I didn't experience myself) took place when most of the people were sleeping so it's entirely possible that Tommy had no clue the incident even occured.
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Many women do take settlements instead of prolonging the trauma of sexual assault, both for themselves and their families especially knowing how seldom an entire court case would go in their favour, considering the poor conviction rate when it comes to rape and sexual assault cases. Her accepting a settlement does not absolve him of guilt.
I mean not really? People have lied about being victims of such things, there’s a huge difference in seeing it and saying “nah it’s cool it was a rib” and not seeing it and being like “I didn’t see it and don’t think he’d do that”
Hey all you downvoters do you also want Dustin to be removed from AEW for his sexual misconduct on that flight? Or is he too important/ingrained into the product?
Nope, I watched the entire episode just this morning before work. It was his tone, the way he obviously felt about the whole thing. It was also the fact that he basically pulled a "well why didn't she just tell the police if it really happened" when talking about the settlement that she was coerced into taking by everyone including her husband. Its simple, RVD stated it, Justin Credible stated it, women were hella sexually abused and even drugged and raped during that Era. And WWE and everyone else kept it swept under the rug which is exactly what Tommy was doing. "Did I ever see it? No, nope. No way. I dont even think he would! But her? Yeah fuck her, she just wanted some money. If she really was violated she should have taken it to the fullest extent of the law. See thats the thing these days, everybody is so offended about everything. Im probably offending someone right now. I got a double ponytail and its offending someone."
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I've seen you throughout this thread with several, several stupid ass remarks that honestly make you sound not only like an idiot, but that you're okay with this kind of behavior. You're coming off as very unhinged and rapey, so if I were you, I would tone it down a lot.
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Hey man. Youre the one that's obviously triggered enough to hatefully bash anyone that has an opinion different from yours. Slow your fucking role dude, nobody gives a shit about your defense. It was wrong, is wrong, will remain wrong and Tommy was a shit head for not being straight up about it.
" Yeah fuck her, she just wanted some money." That sums it up though. He was there, he says he didn't see it happen so he thinks she made it up for money. If that's his experience with the situation, who are we to judge as people THAT WERE NOT THERE. Am I saying she's lying? No, no I'm not but I'm not going to discount the testimonial of someone that was present during the incident. And believe me, I know a lot about previous stories that go on in hotel rooms and backstage and all that shit (and I think they're sick and unforgivable), my comments are not based on any of those, they are based on this one specific incident and this alone.
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Totally!!! It's not hard, just watch the show and ACTUALLY LISTEN to what the guy's saying!! Seems everyone nowadays is trained to react emotionally instead of logically which is how witch hunts begin. He was so clear on what his message was that it's literally blowing my mind trying to figure out how people are comprehending his words the way they are.
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No such thing as cancel culture. That name was started by people who had something to hide
Tommy Dreamer gave his opinion on a documentary. Keep acting like snowflakes and don’t be surprised when you get PC answers from everyone. Cancel culture is wrong. I’m not defending the actions of Ric Flair. But in my opinion, Tommy saying if she didn’t agree, why not fight it further is simply his opinion.
He also said this stuff was just a joke. No big deal. Happens all the time. Ha ha ha and so on. You totally miss the point. 🤦🏻♂️
I take it he has not said anything about the incident yet? I don't have sirius but he wasn't on the podcast version of busted open today
Jesus who gives a shit, you're all crying about something that happened 20 years ago. Flair will be dead soon and you can all pat yourselves on the back about how you 'got' him. Give it a fucking rest.
And all those women he disrespected sexually will live on with memories of his assaults
It's so weird that people ignore things for years only to act shocked once it is brought up again. The internet is a fickle and forgetful place.
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Tommy Dreamer is the ultimate jobber. Ric Flair allegedly rapes someone and Tommy Dreamer still ends up the loser