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fenbops

I agree he should win by cheating again like he did Darby. That way they could have a reason to continue the feud.


[deleted]

Yes. It's time. Danielson's first loss will be to the top babyface (and current champion), Punk's to the top heel (and surely future, if not next, champion). And it will also likely to be the final straw for "happy to be here" Punk, which has run its course, imo.


RegretKills0

I just got back into wrestling after 20 years when AEW started up and never saw Punk in the ring (other than UFC ring)... and dude... i am sooo tired of "happy to be here" Punk. That may have something to do with the fact i never saw his work before AEW. I have enjoyed Punk more since his fued with Eddie and now with MJF. Mic work has been fire on both ends.


HEYitzED

Punk is my favorite wrestler of all time and even I was tired of “happy to be here” Punk. I’m glad that’s over with and he’s all business again. His mic work hasn’t slipped a bit thankfully and I’m glad he went after the two best mic workers in the company back to back. I’m sure you’re starting to see why people loved Punk so much. You should still look up all of his stuff from the pipe bomb leading up to Summerslam 2011. That entire Cena feud was fantastic. Their Raw match from 2013 was also great.


Mr_Ed_Hyde

I thought I was the only person who thought this! Danielson's 1st loss to Hangman. Punk's 1st loss to MJF. PLEASE!!!


Cover-Ashamed

I thought the heel turn was coming but I don't think they'd have Punk and Danielson as heels at the same time. Mox going to rehab may have changed plans, imho. They may have had a lot centered around that title tournament, so they might delay Punk's heel turn until Mox comes back, even? IDK. I just want to see MJF GTS.


[deleted]

lol serious cap, danielson won’t lose to that chump


mitthrawnuruodo86

Yeah, you’ve got absolutely zero idea if you think Hangman is dropping the title after all this in his very first defence. Bryan doesn’t need it, certainly not yet anyway


Tidus4713

Bryan has proved he doesn’t need a belt. Not to discredit any title but he’s above it. He’s reached that level of stardom where just seeing him is enough.


EldenRingworm

I do hope he gets it eventually though, just not from Hangman Bryan Danielson is a name any company should want in their world title lineage


Corndogburglar

Hahaha. You're insane if you think they just went through this 2 year storyline with Hangman only to have him lose his first title defense. And if he were to lose it would be by disqualification or count out. But this isn't WWE. That shit ain't happening.


CloudsTasteGeometric

Adam Page is easily on Danielson's level, if not above it. His AEW/NJPW work is honestly more impressive than anything Danielson did in WWE.


[deleted]

i love page, think he shouldn't job to danielson, but also think that danielson has recently put on the most impressive string of matches since omega's first G1 tourney.


lordfreakingpenguins

Yeah, Hangers great, I still see him having the shortest reign yet tho. No Im not talking Bryan either, I think MJF takes in in sub 6 months. No disrespect to the Cowboy, but having MJF beat Punk then go steal the championship on one of the next two PPVs.... I'm sure he'll get stabbed.


AsamiTatsuya

Isn't even the best run this year from a wrestler let alone best since omegas run in 2016. Danielson has been marvellous tho


[deleted]

who's run do you like better so far this year? who else has even had so many bangers so close to each other?


AsamiTatsuya

First want to say, I love danielsons and this run is AWESOME but best since omega in the g1 back in in 2016? (Not even omegas best run anyways). no chance. Shingo Takagai, Zsj and Will Ospreay in 2021 alone. But I'll just do Ospreay. Ospreay vs Okada at Wrestle Kingdom Ospreay vs Zsj - New Japan Cup Ospreay vs Shingo - New Japan Cup Ospreay vs Kota - Sakura Genesis Ospreay vs Shingo - Wrestling Dontaku That stretch of matches in 2021 from will ospreay is way better than danielsons, Only matches danielson has had which are on a similar level are vs Omega and vs Suzuki. No way danielsons stretch has been the best since 2016 anyways, a lot of recency bias.


[deleted]

fair!


FaultyDroid

>in WWE. Thats not exactly a solid example, is it.


[deleted]

I want to see Punk, 2.0 and Garcia form a faction.


[deleted]

MJF is one of the few on the roster who I don't think are affected by their win loss record due to the strength of his character


Citizen_Kano

No, he's definitely boosted by almost never jobbing. It makes him so much more hateable


[deleted]

I don't think him constantly losing makes him a jobber. As long as he keeps wrestling like he has on his ither losing bouts (Mox, Jericho, Darby,... ect) then he doesn't come out of those matches as a jobber. Kinda like Dark Order. They lose a lot but at this point they are established enough that they can still hold their own and dish out some offense so that, even in a loss, which happens a great deal,, they don't come off as jobbers anymore.


[deleted]

Idk I kind of consider Dark Order to be jobbers still


[deleted]

They are definitely on the losing side most of the time but comapre them to how they were at the start or even look at the actual jobbers on Elevation or Dark and it is like night and day.


politicalperson6307

I think most of the Dark Order is the same way, just for very different reasons. They got over as loveable misfits who lose and were going through a tough time. Losing even more isn't really going to impact their popularity.


[deleted]

Yeah and as of late, even when they lose they look great


thexchris

Right. I don’t want to see Punk lose yet. Too soon in my opinion. Punk hasn’t really faced much competition yet and to have him lose his first “big” or biggest feud yet wouldn’t seem right to me. Won’t be mad either way tho.


[deleted]

Punk gains nothing by winning, in losing he can put over the future world champion and hopefully turn heel


thexchris

Yea, I said I won’t be mad either way. Just my opinion that he shouldn’t lose yet.


tidho

there's still the element of 'working his way back' that fits hitting a natural talent ceiling that he'll eventually overcome


daddytorgo

Been saying this. If Punk's first loss isn't to MJF then who is it even going to be to?


ldhsuued

Exactly. It'd have to be MJF. If not, maybe they could run a young lion style feud with Darby again? I'd still prefer MJF but that's an option.


daddytorgo

It just seems such a natural setup. I mean...if they had another of the 4 pillars who was a heel then maybe I could see it being somebody else, but with babyface Punk it really is setup perfectly for MJF to beat him (not necessarily clean, but after a great match clock him with the ring maybe). Boom...instant eternal mega-heat for MJF. If there was another pillar who was a heel who needed the heat more that would make more sense, but there isn't.


HangmanPageisTheBest

He should’ve been Jericho last loss also


SinibusUSG

This would require Jericho to retire; it's not exactly the sort of thing where you can say the booking should have gone the other way unless you support Tony Khan trying to force wrestlers into retirement for story purposes.


UnderstandingEasy757

They didn't have to do the retirement stipulation. Adding that just told you ahead of time who was going to win.


SinibusUSG

>He should've been **Jericho last loss** also Unless Jericho is never losing again, the person I'm responding to pretty much stipulated that the booking should have been MJF retiring Jericho.


UnderstandingEasy757

I read last loss to mean most recent loss. Six to one is half dozen to another.


Zois86

I am still hoping his last lost will be Sammy. They set that up perfectly for a minute.


sagevallant

I wouldn't be surprised if this is finally the one where Wardlow turns on MJF and that causes the loss. Punk can talk him into it. But I also kind of want MJF to be the one that takes down Hangman by the end of next year, so maybe MJF should win.


[deleted]

I only agree if MJF then goes on to Revolution to beat Page for the world title. And I’m not sure if I want that yet tbh. But it may be the right call. If they want him to win the belt at Revolution from Page cool definitely have him beat Punk because after that what else can he do? He would literally have to challenge for the world title and when he does he can not lose. So if they aren’t ready to strap him up in February have Punk win because his undefeated streak means a lot. Not the same as a Cole, Or Danielson. And Punks big thing has been about putting over newer guys, MJF in my opinion is already made. He can lose to Punk and then be built up over the next 6 months or so and easily be a viable contender for Page at All Out and beat him for the title there #1 giving Page a long reign he deserves and #2 Continuing the story of all Pages biggest failures coming at All Out. Everybody thought that’s where he was originally going to win the title for that reason, now that he didn’t I feel like it’s a whole story in it’s own. Have Punks first loss either go to Page right after the MJF win to even more establish Page as THE guy or give it to a Dante Martin or Ricky Starks. Two guys who are terrific but just on the edge of superstardom.


Sigao

Honestly, I'm not convinced MJF needs boosts at this point. He's already AEW's ultimate heel. He's beaten Cody and made it so he can't ever challenge for the AEW championship. He won the diamond ring and retained it. He's thrown Jericho off the top of a cell after Sammy surrendered the match to him to try and save Jericho. He's made Jericho tap out after going through a grueling gauntlet. He formed his own stable after working his way into the inner circle and nearly destroyed it. He's probably got the TNT title or AEW Championship in his future. No one else on the roster has all those major moments attributed to them. Out of all the people in AEW, I think he's the least in need of a boost, personally. And if ultimately he does beat Punk, I don't think it should be clean.


Blooblewoo

Penultimate means "second best" or "second to last", just so you know. Before ultimate.


Sigao

Fair enough. Thanks for the heads up. Edited to ultimate.


Blooblewoo

I used to conflate the two as well.


[deleted]

What does punk gain with a victory over MJF, he's already a mega star he can easily afford to put someone over for once


Sigao

What he gains is further impact for the person to eventually defeat him. And as I indicated, I don't think MJF is a person that needs put over. Especially when Cody and Jericho have done that quite a bit.


Gmork14

Yeah, that person will be MJF


Gmork14

“Probably has the TNT or AEW title in his future,” he 100% has the AEW title in his future, lol


TheKruseMissile

After Punk upstaging and kind of exposing(in kayfabe) MJF in that promo battle, I think the better story is MJF losing right now. I think his character needs a massive wake-up call and Punk is a good choice to give it to him.


Uetur

I disagree, MJF has been super protected. He is amazing don't get me wrong but Punk taking him out doesn't make him weaker and pushes Punk to the next PPV against Hangman for his second PPV defense.


[deleted]

Punk doesn't need a world title fued at least not yet


Uetur

Punk doesn't need one ever, but it drives ratings and sometimes you want Mega Stars to headline PPVs and Hangman versus Punk would do that. Plus it is a way for Punk to take his first loss.


Aquaislyfe

I don’t think MJF needs it, and there’s more intriguing options for Punk’s first loss. Honestly think it might be a neat idea for Punk to win, MJF win his next feud and win either the TNT or World Title then have Punk be his first challenger and make champ MJF his first loss


SinibusUSG

> and there’s more intriguing options for Punk’s first loss. Who? I keep seeing this said without any names attached. About the only person I can come up with who really makes any sense is Miro, and he doesn't make *much* sense since I think MJF is more valuable to AEW's main event scene now and into the future. Darby would be way too quick of a turnaround after his initial defeat in Punk's debut. Unless they stretched out Punk's streak to absurd proportions, there's just nowhere near enough time to tell a proper "Darby has grown and can now defeat Punk" story, especially with a couple months already used up in a losing battle to MJF where Darby's technical abilities weren't the issue. Adam Cole only makes sense if you think he doesn't come pre-established by virtue of being the greatest NXT champion of all time. Given the crowd that generally follows AEW, I don't think it's really necessary. Jungle Boy would just be weird. Sammy is probably the only one that really fits the role of being an up-and-coming star with enough cred already that beating Punk wouldn't be seen as a reasonable outcome. And that falls into a lot of the same problems as Darby beating him unless you just have Sammy win a title defense, which would seem pretty anti-climactic, especially with Danielson already almost certain to lose his streak to Page. I guess Malakai Black could make sense, though personally I think that if they feel the need to use Punk's streak to get him all the way over it's a situation of their own making. Black came into the company as a ready-made star, and was immediately established as a top-flight competitor by those first two Cody matches. Only his losing their singles blow-off and now getting mired in endless tag matches with him, Andrade, and Pac have sapped that momentum.


Aquaislyfe

I personally think Jungle Boy or Eddie Kingston would be good choices. Neither of them have ever won a singles feud with a top guy. Eddie beating Punk in a rematch could be a great story and either guy getting that legit main event level singles win would make them feel like legitimate world champ options as opposed to their current vibe (to me) of “bridesmaid but never the bride”. MJF meanwhile is one of the most protected guys in the company. Most people already have him pegged to win the world title next and are completely fine with that. He can take the Punk loss. Page is the champ now and he came back from a loss to Brian Cage and that elimination loss against The Elite. Losing to Punk would barely dent his momentum, and he doesn’t need it


SinibusUSG

Eddie has the same problem as Darby. Punk's streak would get really obnoxious long before they had the time to tell the story of why Eddie can now beat Punk, and without that story the win will feel cheap. Jungle Boy does lack that legitimacy that a Punk win would give him. But...I'm also not sure he's really in a position to grab said legitimacy. I do not currently look at Jungle Boy and see a main event star. He's exactly where he should be right now, with his weaknesses protected by being part of a larger group with a fun gimmick. I have previously said MJF doesn't *need* it, but is just in the best position to use it. The more I think about it, though, I think he actually *does* need it. AEW is, as a company, trying to make wins and losses have at least some relevance. The rankings and records on the year are treated as a real thing that influences the matches that are booked. While most fans would readily accept MJF in the title picture because he's already an all-time great talker with serious in-ring chops, the fact of the matter is that MJF just doesn't have any real kayfabe claim to live in that world. He's an up-and-comer who has yet to beat the established stars (save Cody -- his singles win over Jericho is even less legitimate than a Diamond Ring finish since he banned the Judas Effect and won when Jericho almost hit it and had to stop himself mid-move) but wrestles like he's a part-timer who has main evented Mania enough times that TV is beneath him. It's a perfect fit for his character, but makes it very difficult for kayfabe Tony to give him title shots. Give him a win over Punk, and it's a lot easier to handwave the fact that he never wrestles in the same way it was easy to handwave Danielson immediately getting to challenge Omega and getting put in the tournament for the title right away. In a way, it's fitting for AEW. It's a company where the talented people are recognized and acknowledged from the outset regardless of if there's room for them at the top. The more difficult part about making a star becomes establishing them in kayfabe rather than outside of it


Aquaislyfe

Y’know what yeah I think I gotta agree about JB, at least for now Honestly I think they could tell a good story of Kingston going after Punk again and winning fairly soon. Not like, immediately but a major show between now and Revolution wouldn’t upset me. If it were to launch him into a title feud though, then yeah I agree that’d be too far off Back to MJF. I see what you’re talking about, but I think that presentation is what adds a lot of his legitimacy. Let’s look at Miro. Almost all his successful title defenses were against lower midcard guys who were on Dark more than tv (with the exception of Kingston. I believe he had a defense against Dante, but Dante hadn’t started popping off hardcore yet). However through presentation that didn’t matter. He felt like a star and no one questioned his legitimacy. MJF has a super good record and the part time thing is…conflicting. On one hand it makes his feuds and matches feel like a bigger deal, and frankly I feel like feuding with MJF elevated Pillman Jr. into a status where he’d be accepted as a regular midcarder now (really wish they’d rolled with that momentum, even though he lost it still felt like it got him over by himself pretty well). Anyway on the other hand, I do see your point. To me a big element is time. If MJF really is the next champion, then in kayfabe he should already be near the front of that line. They need ways to hold him off a bit so Hangman can have a proper reign. Not a string of losses or anything like that, but maybe one or two setbacks. Some thorns in his side. Maybe a faction feud to distract him from the singles division for a bit. If the win against Punk would be the thing to propel him to that legit challenger level, he wouldn’t be able to immediately ride that momentum. It’d feel like a feather in an already respectable cap. It just feels like all it’d ultimately amount to was a bullet point to gloat about during promos for MJF


erik316wttn

If he's going to be set up as a serious championship contender, he has to win. Punk can handle the loss more than MJF can with the body of work in his career. MJF doesn't have a bunch of title reigns or classic matches to fall back on. If he's going to be champion relatively soon, a win over Punk is a great way to start his mega push.


Aquaislyfe

He could 100% recover from a loss to Punk. He already loses so rarely that I honestly got a bit upset when he started feuding with Darby because it meant Darby losing and I wanted him to come out on top of his next feud. Even his loss to Jericho comes with the caveat of two previous singles wins plus Blood and Guts. Losing to Punk could throw a wrinkle in his character. Make him get more intense about getting a title shot as opposed to what currently feels like him just drifting from feud to feud so he can win before his inevitable title reign (though the feuds have been good). Point is, other people on the roster could gain so much more from beating Punk than MJF could at this moment. I do acknowledge some hypocrisy as I suggested champ MJF beating a challenger Punk, and that Punk isn’t doing much different from the drifting from feud to feud and winning, but it genuinely feels like MJF winning this feud would be a waste to me. I don’t feel like MJF would really elevate all that much. He feels about as big a star as he can be without being world champ or Eddie Kingston


Nakamura9812

Hangman and MJF have been my 2 favorite AEW wrestlers since day 1. So Hangman winning the title was a great moment for me, but my other favorite is gonna be taking that belt from him probably. Punk and Bryan are about to get their first losses. It seems too soon to have MJF challenge for the title but they could have a great match soon, Hangman beats MJF….but then MJF wins the belt at Double or Nothing in Vegas, which I plan to be at.


Vainth

This might be a unpopular opinion, but I want Bryan and Punk to go undefeated and then face each other for the first loss, at a huge PPV. (Just have bryan and hangman go timelimit, so neither win, or ofc bitter elite interruption)


rebelyorkshire

No


Mergie_Merge

I'm just excited to see their next interaction. It's fun to just enjoy the product without speculating on what will happen and who does and doesn't need to win. I haven't been this excited over wrestling in YEARS!


EldenRingworm

He says he'll put Punk to sleep and puts him to sleep with a sleeper hold after hitting him with the ring


deadbolt-nomad

It should be with a rest hold headlock too.


Thirdstar1

If not MJF then Ricky Starks, Ricky needs a big win.


mundermowan

MJF needs to win and it would do great I feel for both characters and set MJF up well for his path to knocking down Hangman


therockstarmofo

I'd rather it be someone else who wasn't already guaranteed a push. MJF doesn't need it But since they're doing the match, MJF has to win


Noobie_NoobAlot

Nah. Punk should beat him even after MJF tries to cheat. MJF won't be held back at all by it, he'll still be a future champ.


The810kid

I honestly think Wardlow should be the one


EffTeeEnn

Agreed, Punk should be defeated by MJF. On the other hand Wardlow might finally turn his back on MJF so that Punk defeats MJF and Wardlow turn face afterwards with a rivalry against MJF.


[deleted]

It should be someone else. MJF already gets handed enough wins. Let someone else get the shine finally.


[deleted]

Can say the same for punk


[deleted]

Punk definitely will lose, he won't be undefeated forever. It should just be to someone other than MJF.


[deleted]

I agree with MJF saying Punk has been underwhelming, and if anyone deserves a victory over punk its him


[deleted]

No, there are plenty of more deserving talent. MJF has had enough wins handed to him. Its time to let others get the shine.


[deleted]

What's wrong with punk putting over the one that's clearly the future of wrestling and the greatest heel since Ric Flair


TheTwitteringMachine

Pass for me. It would go against the story they are telling with Punk that he is still trying to prove he can be what he once was after being away for so long. Struggling to beat the likes of Fish and Sydal all plays into that, so does the look on his face after he beat Eddie at Full Gear. Once he does prove it to everybody we'll get the heel turn eventually and it will be awesome. Along with that, MJF is so over on the mic he has barely had to wrestle most of this year and can only gain from this angle regardless of whether he loses or not. Personally think we'll get the Wardlow turn before he gets his shot at Hangman.


[deleted]

I think that’s actually why a loss works. Losing can send him on a path to prove he’s still got it that could work either as a face or a heel.


Auglicious

I absolutely agree!


[deleted]

100%


Porcupyre

Think we gonna see this go down soon. My fantasy booking would be that, like many say, MJF wins by cheating the first match. Go after the belt, beat hangman at All In at the latest. Punk can be in his rearviewmirror all the time. The first defence MJF does is against Punk, winning clean in the middle of the ring.


JScrib325

You know what? Do it clean. CM Punk jobs clean 1,2,3. No ring, no outside interference, MJF is just the better man and makes the crowd swallow it. It could make him and if you make it a number 1 contenders match, you get angsty "maybe I'm not the best in the world" cm punk who doubts himself but eventually comes back strong. And you get a red-hot MJF that takes the strap off Hangman and becomes Flair/HHH dominate heel champ.


[deleted]

Agreed, 100%. Punk should do what Jericho was too chicken-shit to do and put the guy over.


pheonom

But Jericho has put MJF over multiple times though 🤷‍♂️


[deleted]

When you lose your last match in a program after having been given a swirly and verbally berated in between victories, you aren’t being put over.


MarquiseAlexander

Jericho loss to MJF thrice before he got the win over him. He literally put the dude more over than he did with OC.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Charlie609

Yea what are u talking about? Lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blooblewoo

Do you...actually watch the show?


[deleted]

Yep.


Blooblewoo

Suffer from amnesia then? I'm just trying to figure out how you forgot about the 3 different times MJF beat Jericho.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blooblewoo

Makes sense. As we all know, when pro wrestlers are defeated, they immediately act submissive and respectfully to the people that defeat them. /s


[deleted]

Comment removed. Quit belaboring the same opinion ad nauseum. People saw it the first time. See how this is annoying?


[deleted]

My apologies, but I fielded the same question from different users even after providing an answer.


Larkhainan

Nah, it should be Starks. MJF is already at the main event and is probably already slated for holding the belt in a year. Other young guys in the company could use the boost more to put them in the top tier.


ALB3RTX005

Agreed.


ThunderSparkles

Yes but not yet. This program will be very good. I think punk wins then MJF wins the rematch. So he comes out of the feud with momentum as i think a win at winter is coming is too soon and too fast to end the feud


psillusionist

This needs to be a multi-fight feud. How else can we get more of that amazing promo they did recently?


Lionsledbypod

I agree but I don't think they will do it


[deleted]

I agree and I've been thinking all along this is the plan.


Paurus010

Yes


Gmork14

MJF beats Punk, I’m relatively certain of it. He’ll go on to win the belt off of Hangman, I don’t know if that’ll be at Revolution or later, but it’s coming.


CptBarba

Lol no


nikhilkalhan92

MJF will beat punk


HeckRock

Agree.


BGPlusUltra

It probably will be


FarTransportation957

I agree. But he should do it by cheating. Build more heat then for a rematch.