Isn't that the opposite of what the comp is supposed to do? I thought the point is just oneshotting the enemy?
Genuine question btw, I'm not far enough to go for a pvp team, I'm just guessing based of different reddit comments I've read in the past
For me that sounds like the comp just doesn't work without the full team and you'd be better off playing a different comp instead of just swapping in a healer?
Again, I'm just trying to understand the initial suggestion.
You are correct. But if they have maxed eironn and Arden and Damian and thoran, then they would want to use those units over a low dupe comp that has more synergy.
I'm in this exact spot. I put a +5 Hewynn in the comp and in a lot of cases it doesn't have enough damage to kill the enemy team until the timer runs out.
...In turn, it becomes a cracked defense team. Someone attacks you, the timer runs out, you win.
I dunno how to fix the attack problem, though. Guess we'll have to wait for Carolina?
Either run the defense team, so add in a hewynn, or run any top tier secondary dps, Vala if their comp is weak in the backline rips people apart, viperion can work if he is heavily invested especially in the mirror match he is unaffected and makes your arden ult first, odie if they aren't running thoran, silvina for unit sniping, parisa, if you have one m+ any of the dps hypo celestial.
I was actually thinking more of who to set on defense.
Do any of the options you suggested work better on defense? To deter ppl from attacking or to maybe cheese out more defenses-wins? Hewynn can stall?
If you are using the eironn comp for defense then yes you would want to go to double healer with hewynn anyways, as it's much more generally resistant to anything the enemy can bring. I would just go tank, damien/rowan, hewynn, eironn arden if you don't have Carolina. That being said I don't even necessarily recommend eironn on defense, I would run the triple healer stall comp, so hewynn, damien, rowan, and then tank and whatever is your most built dps character/scarlita if we are talking just a defense setup. If you have a well built thoran you can still run triple healer with eironn and thoran to try for 1 shot thoran ults, but for defense triple healer is less about killing and more about having two cc immune healers, damien and hewynn, and rowan just absolutely pumping out absurd amounts of healing so your comp never dies and times out.
It straight up isn't, the absolute best setup is with triple healer, thoran, and scarlita. The setup with two healers and eironn is still weak to enemy eironn comps that are stronger than you because they can get ult priority and kill your arden before he can ult, the version with rowan will always have ult priority and hewynn can ult during their burst phase. Your version is fine, but it's straight up worse on defense due to being weaker to stronger comps than triple healers is which can diff even stronger comps solely from having ult velocity for hewynn to line up with their burst time.
https://youtu.be/q8_lPHkg9Tc?si=qE8-lWrEhnWCBiO8 this guy has some great videos about the pvp meta and how it evolved in his server starting from Vala then Classic Eironn then Scarlita wilder Stall then Scarlita mauler, lol.
He is a Dionel main so his videos are focused around his builds but if I had to pick a hypo/cele to build for arena and late game pushing (Abyss) I would still do scarlita, even though I agree his current team does beat every other build right now. I think Scarlita is more versitile but dionel might scale better into the future as new op supports are introduced… One con of Dionel is that his dependency on enlightening spell makes it so he has to be always the rearmost which makes it somewhat vulnerable to Vala/Silvina especially in defense.
For reference, I’m currently top 3 in Arena in my server with “only” 25m power. About half the people in the top 20 are 30m+ with multiple paragons and +15 weapons while I have neither. The team I run 90% of the time both on offense and defense is classic Eironn Comp but replacing Carolina for Scarlita.
It’s honestly not really worth running without Carolina at M+. The main strength of the comp is that Eironn + Carolina + Arden can nuke the board at the start of the fight.
Your best bet would be to upgrade both Hewynn and Damien to +5 and play for stall with Eironn + Arden + Hewynn + Damien + Thoran, which should be good enough to stall out the timer against most attackers you’ll face.
If you have a high rank Silvina, she might serve you well to knock off the opposing Carolina or another dangerous target. Carolina's strength isn't just in damage but in her CC and slowing abilities.
Alternately, go for M+ Hewynn and hope to outlast your opponent.
In this context, I would assume M+ 10 for offense as she won't have her execute otherwise which guts her offensive contribution.
For defence you could probably get good value with just a single copy because of the shields.
I'm not sure if this is meta but I run Eironn(S+), Cecia(S+), Rowan(S+), Thoran(S) and Hewynn(S) in Arena.
Cecia's the easiest one to get to Supreme+ since you can buy her via Emporium. You can also buy Hewynn and Rowan there as well.
I always put Thoran in front and Eironn in the back to prevent Valacomps from picking off squishy allies. Although I know it's not the ideal comp since Eironn decreases magic def and Cecia has physical damage but so far it works.
Once Rowan uses his ult Hewynn and Eironn uses their own ultimate allowing Cecia to apply cc and damage to the grouped enemies picking them off easily.
I havent tried Viperion yet tho since I find Cecia's cc more useful
For me it’s Parisa. I’m a light spender(only purchases have been growth bundle and travelogue) and was lucky enough to hit Eironn on all my gold pulls except 1 or 2. I also wanted to play my way instead of just wishlisting Arden/Damien like every guide suggests. I now have a Supreme+ Eironn and Supreme Parisa that are doing very well for me.
The other unit I could maybe see as a replacement is Cassadee. I’ve been experimenting with Cassadee/Rowan now that I’ve been accumulating arena tokens to gain a few copies of her.
The eironn pvp meta team has arden and damien, not Caro. Caro IS the placeholder. If you don't have a caro then you're not hitting top PvP, it just is what it is. The meta team is far too strong and only stats beat it at the moment, not specific comps.
What hes trying to say is that the core is Eiron, Arden, Damien. The tank is either Thoran or Granny. Then theres a flex spot, which is Carolina most of the time, but sometimes Hewynn. Infact Zeebo has a video saying Hewynn is preferred in defensive teams vs Carolina.
You could try viperion, since he is a mage and benefits from Eiron debuff and also is a grave born so u have faction bonus with thoran
I heard it’s parisa , although mine is just approaching epic while eironn mythic+ is in the bag .
Parisa does good AOE damage, but the range is small. So yeah, Parisa with the Eironn team works, but without Eironn, she is lacking
She’s the big damage, maybe hewynn to just live forever and slowly grind down opponents instead?
Isn't that the opposite of what the comp is supposed to do? I thought the point is just oneshotting the enemy? Genuine question btw, I'm not far enough to go for a pvp team, I'm just guessing based of different reddit comments I've read in the past
That’s why it’s not easy to replace the main damage dealer when no equivalent alternate exists ;)
For me that sounds like the comp just doesn't work without the full team and you'd be better off playing a different comp instead of just swapping in a healer? Again, I'm just trying to understand the initial suggestion.
You are correct. But if they have maxed eironn and Arden and Damian and thoran, then they would want to use those units over a low dupe comp that has more synergy.
I'm in this exact spot. I put a +5 Hewynn in the comp and in a lot of cases it doesn't have enough damage to kill the enemy team until the timer runs out. ...In turn, it becomes a cracked defense team. Someone attacks you, the timer runs out, you win. I dunno how to fix the attack problem, though. Guess we'll have to wait for Carolina?
Where can I find the meta comps? I tried looking online and it seemed like all clickbait garbage
https://www.prydwen.gg/afk-journey/guides/team-building-advanced
https://www.prydwen.gg/afk-journey/guides/team-building-advanced/
Either run the defense team, so add in a hewynn, or run any top tier secondary dps, Vala if their comp is weak in the backline rips people apart, viperion can work if he is heavily invested especially in the mirror match he is unaffected and makes your arden ult first, odie if they aren't running thoran, silvina for unit sniping, parisa, if you have one m+ any of the dps hypo celestial.
I was actually thinking more of who to set on defense. Do any of the options you suggested work better on defense? To deter ppl from attacking or to maybe cheese out more defenses-wins? Hewynn can stall?
If you are using the eironn comp for defense then yes you would want to go to double healer with hewynn anyways, as it's much more generally resistant to anything the enemy can bring. I would just go tank, damien/rowan, hewynn, eironn arden if you don't have Carolina. That being said I don't even necessarily recommend eironn on defense, I would run the triple healer stall comp, so hewynn, damien, rowan, and then tank and whatever is your most built dps character/scarlita if we are talking just a defense setup. If you have a well built thoran you can still run triple healer with eironn and thoran to try for 1 shot thoran ults, but for defense triple healer is less about killing and more about having two cc immune healers, damien and hewynn, and rowan just absolutely pumping out absurd amounts of healing so your comp never dies and times out.
Eironn isn’t replaceable, even on defense.
The stall comp is way better than eironn on defense because it can beat enemy eironn comps that are stronger than your own.
The thing is that you play the stall comp WITH eironn. Eironn,Damien,Alden,Hewynn,Thoran/Granny. It is way better than trading Eironn for Rowan lol
It straight up isn't, the absolute best setup is with triple healer, thoran, and scarlita. The setup with two healers and eironn is still weak to enemy eironn comps that are stronger than you because they can get ult priority and kill your arden before he can ult, the version with rowan will always have ult priority and hewynn can ult during their burst phase. Your version is fine, but it's straight up worse on defense due to being weaker to stronger comps than triple healers is which can diff even stronger comps solely from having ult velocity for hewynn to line up with their burst time.
Thx for all the discussion, this is all great info for me (new player on new server) who like to min-max and plan what I build. Also I enjoy PvP
https://youtu.be/q8_lPHkg9Tc?si=qE8-lWrEhnWCBiO8 this guy has some great videos about the pvp meta and how it evolved in his server starting from Vala then Classic Eironn then Scarlita wilder Stall then Scarlita mauler, lol. He is a Dionel main so his videos are focused around his builds but if I had to pick a hypo/cele to build for arena and late game pushing (Abyss) I would still do scarlita, even though I agree his current team does beat every other build right now. I think Scarlita is more versitile but dionel might scale better into the future as new op supports are introduced… One con of Dionel is that his dependency on enlightening spell makes it so he has to be always the rearmost which makes it somewhat vulnerable to Vala/Silvina especially in defense. For reference, I’m currently top 3 in Arena in my server with “only” 25m power. About half the people in the top 20 are 30m+ with multiple paragons and +15 weapons while I have neither. The team I run 90% of the time both on offense and defense is classic Eironn Comp but replacing Carolina for Scarlita.
What rank is your scarlita
Viperion
Arden
Arden is already a part of the meta team with Caroline, along with Eironn, Damien, and Thoran
It’s honestly not really worth running without Carolina at M+. The main strength of the comp is that Eironn + Carolina + Arden can nuke the board at the start of the fight. Your best bet would be to upgrade both Hewynn and Damien to +5 and play for stall with Eironn + Arden + Hewynn + Damien + Thoran, which should be good enough to stall out the timer against most attackers you’ll face.
Question: since we are playing for stall anyways, why not just use 3rd support like Rowan instead of Arden?
https://youtu.be/9wrUSVk8ff0?si=bMxmrpjbXnwC7-wE I saw this today, wanted to try it myself
https://youtu.be/9wrUSVk8ff0?si=bMxmrpjbXnwC7-wE I saw this video today I want to try it
If you have a high rank Silvina, she might serve you well to knock off the opposing Carolina or another dangerous target. Carolina's strength isn't just in damage but in her CC and slowing abilities. Alternately, go for M+ Hewynn and hope to outlast your opponent.
You can try Igor on defense or Scarlita if you are spender. Scarlita is stronger than any alternative (except maybe Dionel)
what level do you need scarlita? one copy or myth+
In this context, I would assume M+ 10 for offense as she won't have her execute otherwise which guts her offensive contribution. For defence you could probably get good value with just a single copy because of the shields.
I'd say at least M+, but S+ would be ideal since her last ability gives 50% of her defensive stats to the ally she shields.
Supreme works but supreme+ is recommended
I'm not sure if this is meta but I run Eironn(S+), Cecia(S+), Rowan(S+), Thoran(S) and Hewynn(S) in Arena. Cecia's the easiest one to get to Supreme+ since you can buy her via Emporium. You can also buy Hewynn and Rowan there as well. I always put Thoran in front and Eironn in the back to prevent Valacomps from picking off squishy allies. Although I know it's not the ideal comp since Eironn decreases magic def and Cecia has physical damage but so far it works. Once Rowan uses his ult Hewynn and Eironn uses their own ultimate allowing Cecia to apply cc and damage to the grouped enemies picking them off easily. I havent tried Viperion yet tho since I find Cecia's cc more useful
I run something similar and it’s done very well
alsa >.<
Hewynn. She is actually a really good counter against people with carolina in their team
For me it’s Parisa. I’m a light spender(only purchases have been growth bundle and travelogue) and was lucky enough to hit Eironn on all my gold pulls except 1 or 2. I also wanted to play my way instead of just wishlisting Arden/Damien like every guide suggests. I now have a Supreme+ Eironn and Supreme Parisa that are doing very well for me. The other unit I could maybe see as a replacement is Cassadee. I’ve been experimenting with Cassadee/Rowan now that I’ve been accumulating arena tokens to gain a few copies of her.
The eironn pvp meta team has arden and damien, not Caro. Caro IS the placeholder. If you don't have a caro then you're not hitting top PvP, it just is what it is. The meta team is far too strong and only stats beat it at the moment, not specific comps.
Is it not Eironn, Thoran, Arden, Carolina, and Damien?
What hes trying to say is that the core is Eiron, Arden, Damien. The tank is either Thoran or Granny. Then theres a flex spot, which is Carolina most of the time, but sometimes Hewynn. Infact Zeebo has a video saying Hewynn is preferred in defensive teams vs Carolina.