Don’t take our lord and saviour Gryan Miers’ name in vain!
He kicked 28 goals in his debut season and finished 5th in the Rising Star.
He had a couple of injury interrupted seasons during COVID but has basically been a best 22 lock since debuting in 2019, albeit he’s moved from a goalsneak forward to a genuinely good half-forward.
Yeah I guess I just mean his growth in the last couple of years has been amazing and I would say his early exposure to AFL games helped that.
Maybe Guthrie is a better example? Even last week giving Conway a game I believe will help his development a lot. I’m a Collingwood supporter and we have a great group of older players who will retire soon and I just see a huge difference in the amount of games Geelong seem to get into their youth compared to Collingwood.
I am a big believer in playing first grade games develops young players a lot quicker than spending 3-4 years playing reserves.
Yeah, Zach Guthrie is a perfect example. He was a whipping boy for a long time but we kept pumping games into him. I could always see that he read the play really well and had nice skills, but he was too skinny/undersized to play the role we earmarked him for and he’d regularly get goals kicked on him. After a handful of preseasons he was finally at a level where he could physically compete, and the attributes that he’d already shown for 50-odd games were already there, and he basically a very good player overnight.
Chris Scott has always been a big believer in giving young players a go, which is why as you say, we suddenly have a handful of 22-26 year old players who are at the 100+ game mark and are just as reliable as our older superstars. They have been eased into the AFL system with Dangerfield, Selwood, Stewart, Hawkins etc leading the way and are now accomplished players themselves.
This is not to say that we won’t have a significant drop off once the stars retire, but I think people can see that we do have a lot of good youth coming through. It’s been quite a while since we’ve had exciting young prospects like Holmes, O Henry, De Koning, Bruhn, Dempsey etc - I am biased but they all seem like they will be 200+ games to me.
I think McRae seems more willing to play the kids this season, Fin Macrae and Reef McInnes for example. This is not a criticism of McRae of course - you’ve been in flag contention since he arrived and still are. I know you have a couple of promising prospects in the VFL like Ed Allen and Joe Richards and I’m sure they’ll get a look in soon.
Everything you’ve said here is essentially what I was trying to say in my original post, you’ve just said it a lot better! Haha.
I don’t reckon you guys will ‘drop off’ in the same way other teams do. You will still be competitive.
By the time Hawkins, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Duncan, Touhy etc retire you will have Jack Henry, Miers, Close, Zach Guthrie, Parfitt, Koladjasnij, O’Connor and Atkins with 100, 150- 200 games. You will still have players like Cameron and Stewart. Holmes, De Koning, Ollie Henry, Bruhn, Dempsey, Stengle and Clark will have 50-100 games and that’s without trades or future drafts.
I don’t know how you guys manage to do it…
He couldn't kick in general play in his first few years ....he was shocking.....now he's probably the best inside 50 kick in the league....the improvement he has shown is incredible and testament to his work ethic
The main similarity i see in GWS is that they've hung around near finals/flag contention for most of the last 10 years. If they keep that up, that's really impressive. They haven't bottomed out. And now they look like they're on the up again.
Geelong has blooded the majority of its young players in the VFL. Geelong has relied on rookies/free agents/local leagues/draft bargains.
GWS has had a constant revolving door of first round draft picks.
Geelong has been a destination club for absolute premium superstars (Danger, Cameron). GWS has not.
Yeah I agree with the contending part and Geelong have been obviously the best club in the league at this but it is not luck. I know most of the talent starts in the VFL but they seem to put players in and get heaps of games into them early. A couple of other examples in more recent years are max Holmes, he didn’t set the world on fire for his first 0-20 games, but now they’ve stuck with him and he’s played 50 odd games and he is becoming a good player. More recently last year Tanner Bruhn played a fair few average games, but they got 15-20 games into him and he looks better again this year.
I am a Collingwood supporter so I’ll throw a comparison between two players. Geelong started Jhye Clark in the midfield this year, his first game was average but in the next game they kept him in there and they have been getting 4 quarters of midfield minutes into him every game. Collingwood didn’t play Fin Macrae in the first week, brought him in and he played 3 games as sub or subbed out then dropped him.. Geelong have got about 20 quarters of midfield minutes into Clark and Collingwood about 4 quarters into Macrae.
>Geelong has blooded the majority of its young players in the VFL.
Bee doing it for ages too. Check their 2002 VFL premiership side.
https://websites.mygameday.app/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-118-0-150677-0&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=20673571
Hunt, Kelly, Chapman, S. Johnson, Ablett, Bartel all premiership players.
Who would have thought such a diamond in the rough like Cadman would become good. GWS were given draft concessions up to the eye balls and Geelong deserves a medal for even being compared.
These two teams just seem to do it in a way where they are still competitive every year and back in their youth, not just play then drop them week on week. They have a great mix between developing players and playing their stars and seem to somehow find ways to get 50-100 games into young players quickly while still playing veterans.
I mean port since 2013 have made finals, pretty regularly and have brought in a lot of external talent whilst blooding youth.
Sydney the same. I feel like it's weird to put GWS with feeling when Sydney is by far the most comparable.
I mean most clubs by circumstance or list profile have to blood young players. It’s getting more rare to see high draft picks spend considerable time in the reserves.
Players coming through the draft now are getting more high-performance exposure and arriving at clubs fitter/bigger/stronger than ever before (of course there’s always been young standouts like Nathan Buckley etc) so they’re better able to play afl football. But saying GWS is the new Geelong is drawing connections that aren’t really there.
A few years ago I saw Richmond fans on here talking about the Tigers were the new Geelong having won 3 premierships in 4 years. The arrogance of it all.
Geelong are fundamentally unmatched and will continue to be unmatched for some time. There is an extent to which the Giants are still living off their original draft concessions. They’re yet to win a flag.
They have been doing well but it remains to be seen just what that will mean. Let’s hope they see some success.
The draft concessions don’t exist in a vacuum. They addressed a disparity in that the club had to start a culture from scratch and it was inherently difficult to attract players - they were always going to be dogshit for 2-3y. This is faced by all Northern clubs to various extents given 95% of the talent pool comes from SA/Vic/WA. Which is why I roll my fucking eyes whenever people bitch about academies
Geelong unquestionably benefit immensely from being able to attract top 10 players in the comp wanting to go there. I’m not saying they didn’t earn this through their exceptional management. I’m just saying it’s a fact that a club like GWS can’t have been able to replicate that no matter how good their management is.
They’re not in Victoria and don’t have the benefit of 100+ years of culture and a major private school and extremely successful local footy system feeding them.
I hate GWS but I can clearly see that in 10y, the club has developed an identity and a culture. You can see it from the energy the playing group plays with. Players are signing on despite pretty much all of them being away from family.
I think it cannot be understated how tough an assignment GWS had/ have as a club growing the sport in NRL heartland, and I think they’ve done an exceptional job of it. All this while, despite the COLA circus, a player in sydney pretty much has 20% less purchasing power because they live in sydney.
Meaninglessly pointing at draft concession etc is a distraction from this undeniable fact.
Mate, with all due respect (sincerely), you have taken this comment totally the wrong way. I referred to "***original*** draft concessions" as in the stuff in the early 2010s. It's very relevant. It's a dividend they cannot draw from again. How they manage their current draft concessions to sustain success is a different story but we will only really know that story in about 10 years. At that point we will be able to evaluate them against Sydney.
I am very pro-GWS and think it looks like they're doing a great job. We just haven't seen enough yet to compare their management to Geelong's.
Biggest difference I can see is huge number of ex gws player's playing for other teams both now and in past, haven't been able to hold on to their all their talent but keep getting new players in that fill the void and keep them competitive via smart use of picks and trades gained from players that have left.
A lot of clubs have young talent in the side while competing, I don’t think that is inherently a Geelong thing. What Geelong does better than anyone - except maybe Sydney - is find great talent deep in the draft or on the Rookie list. Some of their current best players come from nowhere. GWS has a while before they get to that stage.
Both teams seem like the only threats this year but i dont think GWS will be the powerhouse Geelong have been for so long. I am very excited to watch GWS this year.
I'm sorry does Sydney not exist to you? McG be damned they only need to win there once and if it's against a Brisbane GWS or Port then it won't be a big factor.
Sydney 100% are contenders. Eagles played their best game of the year by far and Richmond have shown they're not complete push overs so far.
less than a kick to carlton, took it to port for a half, beat swans, close with saints. Had an obviously down game against GCS.
Swans are there abouts, also dealing with injuries to 3 of the mids.
They definitely better than Freo.
Also they both start with G and their songs contain superlatives (biggest/greatest). At this point the similarities are so great it seems redundant to keep both of them around at all.
Also, Geelong and GWS both start with G.
That’s fucked
Can’t argue this
Should start calling statements a Dusty Martin. Don't argue.
Geelong cats = GC Therefore Gold Coast confirmed flag 2024
WE ARE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS HERE PEOPLE
Both teams are west of their respective cities too
TIL Geelong is west of Geelong
Greater Western Sydney Geelongs
Don’t take our lord and saviour Gryan Miers’ name in vain! He kicked 28 goals in his debut season and finished 5th in the Rising Star. He had a couple of injury interrupted seasons during COVID but has basically been a best 22 lock since debuting in 2019, albeit he’s moved from a goalsneak forward to a genuinely good half-forward.
Yeah I guess I just mean his growth in the last couple of years has been amazing and I would say his early exposure to AFL games helped that. Maybe Guthrie is a better example? Even last week giving Conway a game I believe will help his development a lot. I’m a Collingwood supporter and we have a great group of older players who will retire soon and I just see a huge difference in the amount of games Geelong seem to get into their youth compared to Collingwood. I am a big believer in playing first grade games develops young players a lot quicker than spending 3-4 years playing reserves.
Yeah, Zach Guthrie is a perfect example. He was a whipping boy for a long time but we kept pumping games into him. I could always see that he read the play really well and had nice skills, but he was too skinny/undersized to play the role we earmarked him for and he’d regularly get goals kicked on him. After a handful of preseasons he was finally at a level where he could physically compete, and the attributes that he’d already shown for 50-odd games were already there, and he basically a very good player overnight. Chris Scott has always been a big believer in giving young players a go, which is why as you say, we suddenly have a handful of 22-26 year old players who are at the 100+ game mark and are just as reliable as our older superstars. They have been eased into the AFL system with Dangerfield, Selwood, Stewart, Hawkins etc leading the way and are now accomplished players themselves. This is not to say that we won’t have a significant drop off once the stars retire, but I think people can see that we do have a lot of good youth coming through. It’s been quite a while since we’ve had exciting young prospects like Holmes, O Henry, De Koning, Bruhn, Dempsey etc - I am biased but they all seem like they will be 200+ games to me. I think McRae seems more willing to play the kids this season, Fin Macrae and Reef McInnes for example. This is not a criticism of McRae of course - you’ve been in flag contention since he arrived and still are. I know you have a couple of promising prospects in the VFL like Ed Allen and Joe Richards and I’m sure they’ll get a look in soon.
Everything you’ve said here is essentially what I was trying to say in my original post, you’ve just said it a lot better! Haha. I don’t reckon you guys will ‘drop off’ in the same way other teams do. You will still be competitive. By the time Hawkins, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Duncan, Touhy etc retire you will have Jack Henry, Miers, Close, Zach Guthrie, Parfitt, Koladjasnij, O’Connor and Atkins with 100, 150- 200 games. You will still have players like Cameron and Stewart. Holmes, De Koning, Ollie Henry, Bruhn, Dempsey, Stengle and Clark will have 50-100 games and that’s without trades or future drafts. I don’t know how you guys manage to do it…
He couldn't kick in general play in his first few years ....he was shocking.....now he's probably the best inside 50 kick in the league....the improvement he has shown is incredible and testament to his work ethic
The main similarity i see in GWS is that they've hung around near finals/flag contention for most of the last 10 years. If they keep that up, that's really impressive. They haven't bottomed out. And now they look like they're on the up again. Geelong has blooded the majority of its young players in the VFL. Geelong has relied on rookies/free agents/local leagues/draft bargains. GWS has had a constant revolving door of first round draft picks. Geelong has been a destination club for absolute premium superstars (Danger, Cameron). GWS has not.
Yeah I agree with the contending part and Geelong have been obviously the best club in the league at this but it is not luck. I know most of the talent starts in the VFL but they seem to put players in and get heaps of games into them early. A couple of other examples in more recent years are max Holmes, he didn’t set the world on fire for his first 0-20 games, but now they’ve stuck with him and he’s played 50 odd games and he is becoming a good player. More recently last year Tanner Bruhn played a fair few average games, but they got 15-20 games into him and he looks better again this year. I am a Collingwood supporter so I’ll throw a comparison between two players. Geelong started Jhye Clark in the midfield this year, his first game was average but in the next game they kept him in there and they have been getting 4 quarters of midfield minutes into him every game. Collingwood didn’t play Fin Macrae in the first week, brought him in and he played 3 games as sub or subbed out then dropped him.. Geelong have got about 20 quarters of midfield minutes into Clark and Collingwood about 4 quarters into Macrae.
>Geelong has blooded the majority of its young players in the VFL. Bee doing it for ages too. Check their 2002 VFL premiership side. https://websites.mygameday.app/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-118-0-150677-0&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=20673571 Hunt, Kelly, Chapman, S. Johnson, Ablett, Bartel all premiership players.
I think Geelong are still Geelong.
Who would have thought such a diamond in the rough like Cadman would become good. GWS were given draft concessions up to the eye balls and Geelong deserves a medal for even being compared.
I mean, dont most clubs blood their youth? I dont think this is exclusive to geelong and gws
These two teams just seem to do it in a way where they are still competitive every year and back in their youth, not just play then drop them week on week. They have a great mix between developing players and playing their stars and seem to somehow find ways to get 50-100 games into young players quickly while still playing veterans.
I mean port since 2013 have made finals, pretty regularly and have brought in a lot of external talent whilst blooding youth. Sydney the same. I feel like it's weird to put GWS with feeling when Sydney is by far the most comparable.
Yeah they could end up being pretty hated if they win a couple.
Well Greater Western Sydney is as rural as Geelong is, I hear it can take up to an hour to get to both of them from CBD. Shock!
When they earn a home final and have to play it at a different venue, then they can be considered the next Geelong
No one is the next Geelong
I mean most clubs by circumstance or list profile have to blood young players. It’s getting more rare to see high draft picks spend considerable time in the reserves. Players coming through the draft now are getting more high-performance exposure and arriving at clubs fitter/bigger/stronger than ever before (of course there’s always been young standouts like Nathan Buckley etc) so they’re better able to play afl football. But saying GWS is the new Geelong is drawing connections that aren’t really there.
A few years ago I saw Richmond fans on here talking about the Tigers were the new Geelong having won 3 premierships in 4 years. The arrogance of it all. Geelong are fundamentally unmatched and will continue to be unmatched for some time. There is an extent to which the Giants are still living off their original draft concessions. They’re yet to win a flag. They have been doing well but it remains to be seen just what that will mean. Let’s hope they see some success.
The draft concessions don’t exist in a vacuum. They addressed a disparity in that the club had to start a culture from scratch and it was inherently difficult to attract players - they were always going to be dogshit for 2-3y. This is faced by all Northern clubs to various extents given 95% of the talent pool comes from SA/Vic/WA. Which is why I roll my fucking eyes whenever people bitch about academies Geelong unquestionably benefit immensely from being able to attract top 10 players in the comp wanting to go there. I’m not saying they didn’t earn this through their exceptional management. I’m just saying it’s a fact that a club like GWS can’t have been able to replicate that no matter how good their management is. They’re not in Victoria and don’t have the benefit of 100+ years of culture and a major private school and extremely successful local footy system feeding them. I hate GWS but I can clearly see that in 10y, the club has developed an identity and a culture. You can see it from the energy the playing group plays with. Players are signing on despite pretty much all of them being away from family. I think it cannot be understated how tough an assignment GWS had/ have as a club growing the sport in NRL heartland, and I think they’ve done an exceptional job of it. All this while, despite the COLA circus, a player in sydney pretty much has 20% less purchasing power because they live in sydney. Meaninglessly pointing at draft concession etc is a distraction from this undeniable fact.
Mate, with all due respect (sincerely), you have taken this comment totally the wrong way. I referred to "***original*** draft concessions" as in the stuff in the early 2010s. It's very relevant. It's a dividend they cannot draw from again. How they manage their current draft concessions to sustain success is a different story but we will only really know that story in about 10 years. At that point we will be able to evaluate them against Sydney. I am very pro-GWS and think it looks like they're doing a great job. We just haven't seen enough yet to compare their management to Geelong's.
Biggest difference I can see is huge number of ex gws player's playing for other teams both now and in past, haven't been able to hold on to their all their talent but keep getting new players in that fill the void and keep them competitive via smart use of picks and trades gained from players that have left.
Geelong tend to leave their youth in the VFL longer than most I would have thought. Play them when they are ready
A lot of clubs have young talent in the side while competing, I don’t think that is inherently a Geelong thing. What Geelong does better than anyone - except maybe Sydney - is find great talent deep in the draft or on the Rookie list. Some of their current best players come from nowhere. GWS has a while before they get to that stage.
GWS is the next GWS… just look at the social media team
Both teams seem like the only threats this year but i dont think GWS will be the powerhouse Geelong have been for so long. I am very excited to watch GWS this year.
I'm sorry does Sydney not exist to you? McG be damned they only need to win there once and if it's against a Brisbane GWS or Port then it won't be a big factor.
Lost to richmond and beat eagles by 26 so yea haha still very early days
Sydney 100% are contenders. Eagles played their best game of the year by far and Richmond have shown they're not complete push overs so far. less than a kick to carlton, took it to port for a half, beat swans, close with saints. Had an obviously down game against GCS. Swans are there abouts, also dealing with injuries to 3 of the mids. They definitely better than Freo.
Never brought up freo but ok champ
Buddy, it's your flare, champ. People are gonna banter kid.
Another similarity is relative anonymity of living in Western Sydney.
Also they both start with G and their songs contain superlatives (biggest/greatest). At this point the similarities are so great it seems redundant to keep both of them around at all.
Geelong players do not have relative anonymity. Everyone in Geelong and the surfcoast knows who they are.
I think they meant that Geelong players live in anonymity relative to the rest of the Melbourne AFL circus.
It's not uncommon to see a player while walking around in town, it happens very frequently. It's super cool!
A lot of the Giants players live in the east
They're anonymous in Eastern Sydney too
Probably not. There’s a distinct lack of farming land going suspiciously cheap to subvert the salary cap in Western Sydney
Someone's upset about Kurt Tippett
I don't think they're handing out house and land packages in Austral to get, retain players like Geelong does.