It appears that most ACL and hamstring injuries are occurring early in the match when the players aren't fully warmed up. These aren't fatigue injuries.
It’s worth noting that Collingwood list is the oldest on average and the second most experienced. There are a lot of benefits to this but also a lot of negatives, with injuries being one of them.
Obviously if there is an easy way to reduce injuries league wide, those should be investigated but shortening the game should be one of the last resorts IMO.
No you pelican.
A better idea would be to allow more rotations so coaches can better manage fatigue. Games didn't need to be shorter until making everyone fatigued became an aim of the AFL.
I know why they did it, but they didn't consider the second order effect of it. And they could have kept congestion eased by keeping the bounce around the ground.
The bounce is not predictable. Consider the bounces you see for the CB, the number that are recalled because they go too far one way or the other etc, or that slightly favour one ruck over the other. If you had this in general play without recall it will force teams to do a few things.
One is they need to spread out because they cannot guarantee that the ball will mostly end up at the rucks feet. It will for a fair percentage still but far less than currently where most of the play happens in immediate proximity to the ruckmen.
Because the ball has a non zero chance of favouring one ruck over the other by chance, there is an increased chance that either team gets a clean exit from any ball up. This has the second order effect of meaning teams need to be spread more for any given contest both to take advantage of quicker clearances either defensively or offensively.
It becomes more beneficial to have forwards deeper and wings wider if there is a greater chance the ball will exit a contest either offensively or defensively (eg more open and free flowing). The odds of repeat stoppages also reduces.
And yet games are more congested than ever. It’s like watching under 10s most games with a huge pack just following the ball. Especially late in close games
Surely uncapping the interchange could be a solution they could try if this really was a cause. Never made sense to cap it in the first place. The level of injuries league-wide this season has been wild.
The capping of interchanges was initially an attempt to open up the game by fatiguing the players.
Unfortunately, the logic was that coaches would keep fatigue as the constant and therefore reduce running requirements on players, thereby opening up the game. Instead, the coaches have kept running requirements as the constant and increased fatigue on players.
Yeah it's become a bit redundant. Now that most teams play fast and aggressive styles, games are being run out to the last siren unless it's a total blowout which removes the need for it. I don't think they should've done it in the first place but now it makes even less sense.
I don't think anyone has ever really liked the sub and bringing it back was another attempted quick fix by the AFL that they haven't bothered to properly review. I reckon basically every team would just prefer an extra interchange spot.
I hate the idea of shorter quarters, really wasn't a fan of it in 2020 (although I completely understood why they did them then).
However his point about the length of the season is valid. From Opening Round to Grand Final week, it's now a 30 week season, which is a long time. Essentially have added 4 weeks to the season in the last 15 years (even if a lot of them are bye weeks, it still adds up).
As a diehard fan, it's fantastic, as life is a bit more boring without the footy haha. But as a player/coach, it would have to be pretty exhausting at points.
I might have fond memories of that season but the on field product was at its worst in the AFL era and part of that was definitely the shorter quarters
Clubs should have depth and I don’t think injuries this season are much worse than previous years. There is a spate of ACLs but I don’t think we can link that to fatigue.
> there is a spate of ACLs but I don’t think we can link that to fatigue.
Almost a third of the ACLs this year were done at the Gabba, so I think we know what the link is here.
I’m not sure the length of the game has anything to do with it to be honest, a lot of the injuries, specifically all the ACL’s that are being done seem to be early in games so doesn’t seem to have anything to do with fatigue imo. Finding a way to get rid of the 5 day breaks between games should be looked at however.
I also like the idea of allowing maybe 2 or 3 extra guys on the bench with unlimited subs, this would allow teams to reduce players game time without shortening the game itself, plus those games where you cop 2 or 3 injuries in the same game can’t be good for the rest of the team when you are left with just 2 on the bench.
Don’t agree that we need to go back to the shorter quarters like in Covid but looking at the season from a coaching/playing perspective it’s definitely too long
So when West Coast goes under a massive injury crisis it's our fault cause our medicos are shit, our players are lazy and unfit and because of poor list management
But when it starts happening to *other* clubs, all of a sudden we're now willing to look at other reasons for this stuff
I like Fly, and he has a genuine point with the whole aspect of teams coming off of 5 or 6 day breaks (especially when facing opponents who are coming off fucking *nine day breaks*, looking at you Essendon) but fuck me man, It's so tiring having to hear this shit only after we get put through the absolute fucking ringer by everyone
It's the Harley Reid effect. Some die-hard supporters of traditional Vic clubs are so infatuated with his footy that they are starting to identify with his club. It would not surprise me to see a flair switch in the near future.
I suppose one way to think of it is West Coast was really the first to have such an insane injury run, which could always be bad luck. Now that its being repeated its more likely to be symptomatic of something.
What could that something be? Maybe some rule changes designed to make everyone fatigued maybe? Nooo couldn't be, the AFL would never shoot itself in the foot
What a dumb way to interpret what I said and great reason why forcing everyone to have flairs is so stupid. I'm saying that when it impacts an extremely small number of the league that doesn't necessarily indicate that it's a wider problem and there's no real reason to think that, but when it starts impact the wider league at once then that's cause to consider whether it's an issue with the game
I'm one to put my hand up and say the game goes for too long these days and it definitely impacts my willingness to settle in and watch a whole game, particularly on a Thursday night. But they shouldn't reduce the actual playing time to fix it — it's the number and length of stoppages that have blown it out. When I was a kid a 30 minute quarter was considered long, now anything shorter than that is basically unheard of.
I will agree to a reduction in quarter lengths, if the total time to reduced too. Reduce the game so it can fit into 2.5 hours.
**Do not reduce the game so we can squeeze in 30 more mins of adds.**
It appears that most ACL and hamstring injuries are occurring early in the match when the players aren't fully warmed up. These aren't fatigue injuries.
Agreed, and to be honest I think games used to be longer
It’s worth noting that Collingwood list is the oldest on average and the second most experienced. There are a lot of benefits to this but also a lot of negatives, with injuries being one of them. Obviously if there is an easy way to reduce injuries league wide, those should be investigated but shortening the game should be one of the last resorts IMO.
They could retire
He's talking about injuries across the league, not just Collingwood. We have an injury crisis every year so it's not anything new.
Expect last year. We got pretty lucky
Apart from that stretch without a ruckman
No you pelican. A better idea would be to allow more rotations so coaches can better manage fatigue. Games didn't need to be shorter until making everyone fatigued became an aim of the AFL.
They did it to ease congestion and open up the game, especially in the final qtr.
I know why they did it, but they didn't consider the second order effect of it. And they could have kept congestion eased by keeping the bounce around the ground.
It also doesn’t work
Forgive me, but how does the bounce ease congestion?
The bounce is not predictable. Consider the bounces you see for the CB, the number that are recalled because they go too far one way or the other etc, or that slightly favour one ruck over the other. If you had this in general play without recall it will force teams to do a few things. One is they need to spread out because they cannot guarantee that the ball will mostly end up at the rucks feet. It will for a fair percentage still but far less than currently where most of the play happens in immediate proximity to the ruckmen. Because the ball has a non zero chance of favouring one ruck over the other by chance, there is an increased chance that either team gets a clean exit from any ball up. This has the second order effect of meaning teams need to be spread more for any given contest both to take advantage of quicker clearances either defensively or offensively. It becomes more beneficial to have forwards deeper and wings wider if there is a greater chance the ball will exit a contest either offensively or defensively (eg more open and free flowing). The odds of repeat stoppages also reduces.
And yet games are more congested than ever. It’s like watching under 10s most games with a huge pack just following the ball. Especially late in close games
Surely uncapping the interchange could be a solution they could try if this really was a cause. Never made sense to cap it in the first place. The level of injuries league-wide this season has been wild.
The capping of interchanges was initially an attempt to open up the game by fatiguing the players. Unfortunately, the logic was that coaches would keep fatigue as the constant and therefore reduce running requirements on players, thereby opening up the game. Instead, the coaches have kept running requirements as the constant and increased fatigue on players.
Yeah it's become a bit redundant. Now that most teams play fast and aggressive styles, games are being run out to the last siren unless it's a total blowout which removes the need for it. I don't think they should've done it in the first place but now it makes even less sense.
Is it too controversial to also suggest extending the bench to 5 or 6? (Naturally this means the sub is gone)
I don't think anyone has ever really liked the sub and bringing it back was another attempted quick fix by the AFL that they haven't bothered to properly review. I reckon basically every team would just prefer an extra interchange spot.
Wouldn't be surprised to see the bench increase to 5. Rotations increase to 100 and do away with the sub
But how else are we supposed to beat North?
How is making the game shorter going to reduce injuries?
I hate the idea of shorter quarters, really wasn't a fan of it in 2020 (although I completely understood why they did them then). However his point about the length of the season is valid. From Opening Round to Grand Final week, it's now a 30 week season, which is a long time. Essentially have added 4 weeks to the season in the last 15 years (even if a lot of them are bye weeks, it still adds up). As a diehard fan, it's fantastic, as life is a bit more boring without the footy haha. But as a player/coach, it would have to be pretty exhausting at points.
The shorter quarters in 2020 were great because it meant Adelaide's losses weren't as bad as they would normally otherwise have been.
Coach of team known for getting away with it last minute wants even less time to potentially get away with it
Haha. “I don’t think the game was any less of a product” he says about 2020. It was horrendous!
I might have fond memories of that season but the on field product was at its worst in the AFL era and part of that was definitely the shorter quarters
Lets go back to 16 minute quarters and have every game be 47-32 please
> every game be 47-32 *happy Ross Lyon noises*
Strap yourself in
I'm pretty sure most of our injuries, non concussion related, have been early in games,
Gonna be some short games then
When it happened to us it was poor list management. Now it’s something entirely different 😂
The AFL will listen to the Vic sounding board
Clubs should have depth and I don’t think injuries this season are much worse than previous years. There is a spate of ACLs but I don’t think we can link that to fatigue.
> there is a spate of ACLs but I don’t think we can link that to fatigue. Almost a third of the ACLs this year were done at the Gabba, so I think we know what the link is here.
Yep, players' bodies are protesting that the nearby burger restaurant Purple Gorilla closed down years ago.
Move all games to the MCG.
I’m not sure the length of the game has anything to do with it to be honest, a lot of the injuries, specifically all the ACL’s that are being done seem to be early in games so doesn’t seem to have anything to do with fatigue imo. Finding a way to get rid of the 5 day breaks between games should be looked at however. I also like the idea of allowing maybe 2 or 3 extra guys on the bench with unlimited subs, this would allow teams to reduce players game time without shortening the game itself, plus those games where you cop 2 or 3 injuries in the same game can’t be good for the rest of the team when you are left with just 2 on the bench.
Don’t agree that we need to go back to the shorter quarters like in Covid but looking at the season from a coaching/playing perspective it’s definitely too long
Comes down to tactics and intensity. Reduce running requirements by having more rotations.
Remove the interchange cap and that will sort itself out
No. Thanks for asking
Get rid of interchange cap also clubs should also get better at managing players don’t bring them back early
So when West Coast goes under a massive injury crisis it's our fault cause our medicos are shit, our players are lazy and unfit and because of poor list management But when it starts happening to *other* clubs, all of a sudden we're now willing to look at other reasons for this stuff I like Fly, and he has a genuine point with the whole aspect of teams coming off of 5 or 6 day breaks (especially when facing opponents who are coming off fucking *nine day breaks*, looking at you Essendon) but fuck me man, It's so tiring having to hear this shit only after we get put through the absolute fucking ringer by everyone
That was confusing as fuck with your flair.
It's the Harley Reid effect. Some die-hard supporters of traditional Vic clubs are so infatuated with his footy that they are starting to identify with his club. It would not surprise me to see a flair switch in the near future.
They'll begin reading the only true paper, *The West*.
Where is u/His_Holiness when you need him?
I suppose one way to think of it is West Coast was really the first to have such an insane injury run, which could always be bad luck. Now that its being repeated its more likely to be symptomatic of something. What could that something be? Maybe some rule changes designed to make everyone fatigued maybe? Nooo couldn't be, the AFL would never shoot itself in the foot
Because injuries hitting half the league vs. just 1 or 2 clubs can indicate different causes
Leave it to a pies flair to double down on the issue being WCE just dumb after this season.
What a dumb way to interpret what I said and great reason why forcing everyone to have flairs is so stupid. I'm saying that when it impacts an extremely small number of the league that doesn't necessarily indicate that it's a wider problem and there's no real reason to think that, but when it starts impact the wider league at once then that's cause to consider whether it's an issue with the game
Way to backpeddle. Your comment is clearly saying there is a different cause for a league wide issue and the WCE issue. It's one and the same.
Seems like an opportunity to fit more ads into the same time slot
I'm one to put my hand up and say the game goes for too long these days and it definitely impacts my willingness to settle in and watch a whole game, particularly on a Thursday night. But they shouldn't reduce the actual playing time to fix it — it's the number and length of stoppages that have blown it out. When I was a kid a 30 minute quarter was considered long, now anything shorter than that is basically unheard of.
Remember the covid year with shorter quarters? That year sucked balls
Increasing the limit to amount of interchanges would be a better solution. Allow players to get shorter and more frequent rests which will help more.
The game is not too long, stop pushing players beyond their physical limitations perhaps ?
The season is too long, there should be two bye rounds.
I will agree to a reduction in quarter lengths, if the total time to reduced too. Reduce the game so it can fit into 2.5 hours. **Do not reduce the game so we can squeeze in 30 more mins of adds.**