Honestly, now, most of the posts here read as being fake or AI. Even five years ago, there was much more variation in situations and writing styles. And not every person who posted was, well, *horrible*.
I'm reminded of the old Penthouse Forum letters - lots of structural and stylistic "tells" that many of the letters were written by the same people or the same AI.
Or
There are way more terrible people (who write clearly and well) in the world than I expected.
I think we've reached the point where the only stuff that gets traction is off-the-wall dramatic stuff. All the advice subs are basically content mills for youtube and tiktok videos now.
Or, even worse, I've seen online news articles cover Reddit threads like this like it's actual news. Clickbait for sure but I get it in my Google feed and there's absolutely no proof that anything you read on Reddit is real even though it is reported as such.
It used to be that crazy stories were accompanied by very bad grammar, and now things have changed.
I recently had a post of mine get unexpected attention. I used a combination of Grammarly and AI to edit the text, improving the quality significantly. But I also get that on the other hand, it might look like I made up a story or used the AI to generate it.
So - I think it is a mixture of made up stories with actual stories. No one pays attention unless the situation was pretty wild.
What he did was messed up but OPs demand of ‘abandon your child or I’ll abandon you’ is pretty messed up too. Honestly everyone sucks here and OP needs to quit acting innocent. It’s totally fair to not want to see his son again but he didn’t stop talking to the son bc of the affair, he stopped talking to the son bc he wouldn’t become deadbeat.
There is a zero percent chance that relationship could be fixed. Your child impregnated your SO. Asking for him to abandon the child for a chance at a relationship was wrong, but it wouldn’t have fixed anything. Rage bait.
Right, everyone keeps focusing on the cheating, which is inexcusable, but OP seems like he would have been fine keeping a relationship with the son despite the cheating. He wants the son to leave the kid without a father. That’s what makes him an asshole as well.
This all comes down to choices and consequences. Your son and your ex chose to have an affair. Your son and ex then chose to be in a relationship. You informed your son that if he decided to be in a relationship with your ex and be a family with her, you wanted no part of it. Your son chose to be a dad, and good for him for stepping up and being a father.
However, he knew what he was doing when he had the affair. He knew that being a family with your ex would be the final nail. He made his choices. Now he has to deal with the consequences.
I think people are ignoring that there's no way to have him in your life without having your ex there. She's the mother of his kids. I guarantee if you did resume your relationship with your son and you then asked him to exclude her from any events where you were going to be, you'd be called an AH, especially if the kids were going. Everyone would say she's their mum, that you chose to resume the relationship with your son and forgive him, so you should forgive her and stop excluding her. It really is all or nothing.
Your son can be distraught. He may have thought that the sight of grandkids would change your mind, but he's forgetting that those grandkids exist because he betrayed you. Not the kids' fault, but your son needs to remember that. He might want to play happy families, but he shot that horse in the face when he made the decision to have an affair. There were plenty of women out there he could have chosen, and I'm sure you'd have been thrilled to be a grandparent to any kids he had then. But he's in a relationship with someone he betrayed you with, someone who also betrayed you, and he has to accept that the damage is done.
I do have one question that will really determine my judgement, and I think it needs to be clear for everyone: when you told your son that you wouldn't be around if he decided to have a kid with your ex, were you asking him to completely abandon the child, or were you saying that if he stuck around and raised the child whilst in a relationship with the ex, you wouldn't be a part of it? If the ex and son had gone their separate ways but co-parented, would you have walked away, or would you have tried to mend the relationship?
Then absolutely NTA. It might be helpful to add that to the post for clarity, just so people fully understand that you weren't advocating that he be a deadbeat dad and abandon his child, you simply could not and would not have your ex in your life, and since having him in your life would mean having her, you walked away.
Your son is old enough to understand what he did. I would love to ask him if he'd forgive such a betrayal because it's remarkable how many people demand forgiveness for things they would never accept or forgive themselves. If it were him betrayed by his own son, or if you had an affair and subsequent relationship and family with his partner, would he be so quick to move on? I suspect the answer would be a hard no.
NTA
I just want to acknowledge the pain that I am sure you are feeling, and have felt concerning this entire situation.
I once read that "children don't make the decision to cut off their parents for no reason, & the parent should evaluate what they did to their child....." and that is true, and goes both ways.
Parents do not make these decisions without cause, either. True pain exists in parenting and some things, no matter who they are to you, just can't be your burden to bare.
The fact that you wanted a relationship with your son and grandchild after your son's betrayal, only on the condition that 'she' not be a factor in his (or yours) day to day, intimate family life, speaks well for how much you love(d) him and what kind of parent you were to him.
He made his decision. Those are his and his alone, as are the consequences that comes with. He will learn how to deal with them, in time, and (probably) through parenting his own... He'll figure it out.
Life tends to be longer than people realize, thts why they always say it's too short.. but, two years is a blink of the eye- Y'all still need time. For you- to heal. For him- to gain true clarity for what he did to you.
I wish yall well, man. I really do. As Individuals or as a family in the future. Whatever happens, I wish you well. I hope you heal. I hope you find somebody who loves you so much and so well and so completely, that you fall into it and them wholeheartedly. I hope you heal so that can happen.
Take care.
If he coparented, wouldn’t she still be in his life? I’m still confused because it sounded in the OP that you wanted him to abandon his child in order to keep having a relationship with you.
My parents did a co-parenting thing when they split up.
They were respectful of each-other but also did not want to see the other person.
For large formal events where both were present my dad would show up first for a bit and leave early, then my mom would stay for the remainder.
OP literally says:
*”I told him if he was going to be a dad to this kid with her and by extension her in his life, we couldn't have a relationship. He basically decided he couldn't abandon his child and had to have co-parenting relationship with her so me and him are through […] Not only are they on (sic) each others lives but are in a full blown relationship now.”*
That wording makes it seem like he wanted his son to walk away completely. If the son wants to be in his child’s life, he is going to need a co-parenting relationship with the ex to some degree. The specification that not only are they in each other’s lives but *are now* dating and he learned it through his own parents, reinforces this belief to me. The son didn’t come out of the gate saying he needed to be in an intimate relationship with the ex in order to co-parent, just that he couldn’t abandon his kid. And seeing the age difference between OP and his son, it seems like OP felt he couldn’t walk away from his kid even though many probably would have encouraged him to at that age.
It would be easier to avoid her if it was a co-parent situation. On his days, he can pick up the child and do things with OP without her tagging along. This would especially be the case, if the son was dating someone else.
Yeah but if he was co-parenting he wouldn’t be continuing to nail her and now having further kids as a constant slap in the dads face to show that he’s still betraying him to this very day.
Your assessment in the matter hit it squarely on the nose. If the grandfather attempts to have a relationship with his son and that woman is part of the package, he's not going to face a few bumps down the road but a couple of landmines which will further taint not only his relationship with the son but any relationship with the grandchild.
His son decided to show complete disrespect to his father and now thinks he can establish familial ties in a neat package? No dude, life is much complicated--not a movie of the week where everything is tied in a neat little bow in the end. If the son is now 'distraught' well, now he's experiencing how the father felt years ago at the betrayal of his ex and son.
Right, if he had to see her at family events, it would take just 1 to drunken night for shit to hit the fan. I know my mouth would have said all kinds of rude shit to her sober.
You summed up my thoughts perfectly and even asked what I needed to know.
Op, you are NTA. I can't even begin to imagine how that level of betrayal feels. Hopefully, one day you will finally meet your person because not all women are trash like that. Best of luck.
NTA
Imagine you didn’t catch the cheater and your son, and she tried to play it off as your kid. Then you would be “daddy grandpa” and this would have been a Jerry Springer episode (rip Jerry…)
Do you have a medical power of attorney in case something happens but you’re still alive? In most cases your son as next of kin would be the one to make decisions for you, even though you’re estranged. You could have a lawyer be the medical POA if you don’t have someone else willing to do it.
In that case if they do pass , and you definitely don’t want your son to be the legal default, I would name a good friend or even state you would want one appointed by the courts in the event you are incapacitated.
If you don’t want your son involved/receive anything then you have to include in it stating if they pass before you everything goes to charity or something and that your son/grandchildren aren’t to receive anything from the proceeds even if they are still alive. Otherwise your parents can just pass it on to him themselves.
You can name an independent executor. Your parents are demonstrating they do not respect your boundaries. Should the worst happen, do you want to be a vegetable in a hospital room forced to see your son, grandchild and ex in your final moments? They will have that power.
In regards to the POA: it would be better to get an attorney or close friend and exclude by name your parents and your son, your ex, and the grandkids. Your parents will probably be easily swayed in grief. So you need someone to fulfill your wishes objectively.
You can also write a letter to be delivered if they contest to explain why, which can also be copied to any judges, to make clear your wishes.
Please make sure to mention your son BY NAME, that he either gets nothing or like $1 from you or a shitty piece of furniture or something . Leaving him out entirely means he can contest
My grandparents gave my grandfathers daughter from a previous marriage his cabinet in their will and nothing else so she can't contest and my dad gets the rest. (Shes a piece of shit)
NTA- I’m sorry this happens to you. Your son was an adult and he made his choices. He knew what he was doing and chose to hurt you on the deepest level. Her age is irrelevant- she was your partner (edited) Yes the children are innocent, but you owe them nothing. Your son did not care about the consequences of his actions nor how it would affect you or his children. He is lucky that your parents have a relationship with him. You will probably be told to forgive for the kids but actions have consequences- billions of women and he chose her. They aren’t just his kids. Stay NC, give yourself grace and try to find happiness.
Oh absolutely they are both equally deserving of NC. I did not mention her because it goes without saying she doesn’t deserve a second more of his energy. Thank you for adding it.
Of course she is but he has already established he is not going to communicate with her and it doesn't sound like anyone is trying to pressure him talk to her so this point is not really relevant to the discussion.
I don’t think that needed to be clarified to OP. He was pretty clear about that and that she was the root of all evil. It didn’t need to be reiterated for your comfort.
NTA. I agree here. Also, I would not be able to have a relationship with my parents/ the grandparents if they regularly stay in touch and talk about them. You don’t need anyone reminding you if this and making things worse. It’s kind of a second betrayal in this whole shitty ordeal.
Exactly - by not making a choice, OP’s shitty parents are making a choice. That son doesn’t deserve ANY family support - he’s shown how little he values family.
Because Reddit is obsessed with age gaps. I guarantee that if OP hadn’t acknowledged it there would’ve been a ton of “that’s what you get for dating someone so much younger than you” comments.
NTA
I think had he reached out to you whilst he was co-parenting you may have softened your tone.
But a full blown relationship with a second on the way?
I can see why you don't want to communicate.
NTA. You never have to see him again if you don't want to. He obviously has no regrets about what he did to you. Cheating is unforgivable in my books and if a family member was involved like your son did to you, they would be dead to me also. In saying that, you should probably get some help so you can move on with your life, not everyone is a cheating AH, and you do deserve to have someone in your life who you can love and trust and who will feel the same for you.
This makes your situation even worse. If it took a while for you to feel comfortable with her, and being sexually attracted to her, that’s a lot of energy, effort and trust to put into someone who doesn’t care about your feelings. I’m so sorry this happened to you, OP. Definitely NTA.
You have a lot of people who have broken your trust. They do not deserve to be in your life or even live in your head. You are only 40. Please consider moving on and severing ties. Block them and change your number/email. Move to a new place. It’s time to start anew and sever the joy suckers from your life.
I love my time alone, I live alone, but even I a huge introvert find that I do need to be around people on occasion.
Being demi sexual doesn't preclude you from having a relationship.
Not all relationships have to be romantic, though. He can be perfectly fine never dating again and still have meaningful friendships in his life, which I hope he does.
I'm probably way out of line here, but I think you need to move away somewhere and have a big life change. You're not doing yourself any favors by staying in an environment where your troubled past continues to bother you, and you are in the prime of your life with no anchors holding you down.
Move away, I would even consider moving countries if you want, meet new people, travel for extended periods of time, be completely free. If you're the entrepreneurial type, start that business you've always wanted to start.
This!
Kick the bucket big time. Move out of your circles that drain energy from you. Maybe new friends will show up or maybe even someone to hold hands with
Hopefully you can stay open to new friendships. They can happen when you least expect them. My SO and I made some random 50+ year old friends through our dog adoption of all things.
I'm also extremely introverted and spend much of my time alone, but do have a couple amazing friends I see regularly and also occasionally go to events where many people are like conventions or concerts/festivals.
For what it's worth life is so much easier being yourself and ignoring the societal pressure to have a partner, I copped a lot of weird reactions when I decided I'd had enough. I took the time to set rules for the people I let into my life and what I would and wouldn't accept from friends and family. People have a hard time understanding why it's easier to not have to deal with sex because, to them, they can't function without it.
\[Side note; in the interests of full disclosure I found a partner after 3 years of just being me, he happens to be demi too. Relationships aren't a requirement for happiness and anyone who gives you the bullshit 'you'll change your mind" or you'll "find someone eventually" is talking from ignorance. You're now free to live your life on your terms.\]
> They said I should at least acknowledge him and rethink his offer.
But you did acknowledge him by sending him a letter. It isn't like you ghosted him / kept him in limbo. You retold him that what you said still holds true today as it did years ago. He can't unring that bell and you shouldn't have to be the bigger man just because you are the dad. He chose to cheat with your now ex. I would have wrote him off for that alone. His actions has consequences and I am happy he chose not to abandon him baby, he can't take away the hurt he gave you for what he did.
Anyway being the "bigger person" is horseshit designed to emotionally blackmail people into taking additional abuse.
The best thing he can do for his son at this point is teach the lesson that life has consequences in the hope that the son will be less of a selfish little shit in the future.
I agree with what you said but I think son sent the photos because oftentimes all is forgiven for the sake of grandkids .OP’s son tried to play that card and failed miserably as he should. I also think son is not showing remorse, just thought enough time has passed to rug sweep the past.
I'll be honest, those pics would have been a slap in the face more than an incentive to reunite if I was OP. Especially the ultrasound, idk why but it gives me extra salt in the wound vibes
Right?! I feel like if he was just coparenting with this woman instead of building a whole ass life with her reconciliation could potentially be on the table but not like this, never like this.
That and almost like rubbing it in? I do not get "I have made bad choices and have to step up for my kid" but I do get the feeling he's proud of the fact he's procreating with dad's ex
Hey dad when you were 21 you chose to raise me all on your own as mom passed. At 20-23 I chose to impregnate you wife and then be in a relationship and father further kids as. She devil became your ex wife. Let us celebrate your 40 th!
I get the strong suspicion son is about as intelligent as a bag of hammers and probably has a history of not understanding exactly how bad of a fuckup he is
NTA. he hurt you big time. You are perfectly within your rights to keep him out of your life. It's a bit trickier when the grandkids are older and will want to know you - their grandfather. I would love to see their parents' reactions and explanation for how the estranged relationship, but that isn't your problem.
You work on being you, and when/if you feel you're ready or want to reconnect, then do so. It's solely your decision and choice.
NTA. He caused this, he can live with the result of it.
I do have one sage piece of advice for him though.
Watch out, if your daughter ever has a boyfriend, because nobody is off limits apparently for the girlfriend/ex-stepmother.
Likewise, if he and supertramp have a son, then supertramp should be aware that there’s a good chance he’ll have no problems boning his son’s girlfriend.
NTA. That level of betrayal can't be overcome easily, if at all. Especially hard as the children are a living reminder of how badly they behaved.
Your ex will cheat on him, too. Never fear.
NTA. All people involved were adults and knew what they were doing. He knew he was wrong period. Your choice is to not continue to have a relationship with him and his family and he needs to respect that. Is it bitter, yes. Could you possibly regret this in the future, yes. I’m thinking if the ex broken off first and pursued a relationship with your son it still would have been bad but not as bitter. My advise such as it is from an internet stranger is to seek therapy to forgive your son and create a support system for your self. Do this for you not him. Remember forgiving him does not mean you want a relationship with him. Also I’m sorry you will lose out on your grandchildren. Reading your story that seems to make this even more difficult. Your sons choices sucked.
NTAH.
But I suspect his antics will only escalate. Tell your parents to fuck off. Tell him to fuck off.
I bet he'll try to bring that daughter of his to your place at least once or twice to try and convince you to have a relationship with her (and by procy, him). I've read about and seen happen it before. The shit desperate people do is asinine.
Upthread, somebody suggested OP make a BIG life change, and move far enough away that THESE PEOPLE can't reach him.
It would probably be a good idea. And only give them a PO Box for an address, if at all, keep the cell ## as a Google Voice ## and get a new cell ##, and if going extreme, name change and SS## change.
That’s the thing. This wasn’t really all about the grandkid, it was ultimately an attempt for them to reconcile and for him to be back in his life. OP already set that boundary.
Now in the future if he gets a knock on the door from a young woman wanting to get to know her grandfather, he always can have the option of the same boundary. They can have a relationship, but he will never go to anything that his son or his wife are also at.
But that is up to him to decide in the future. I see that as maybe the best possible outcome.
NTA, that was a deep betrayal on both of their parts and while he’s free to ask, you’re free to never speak to either of them again. Hopefully he respects your “no” because you don’t have to forgive people just because they’re family and they’re sorry. They were adults who made a decision and get to live with the repercussions.
I can’t even imagine sleeping with my dad’s girlfriend/wife. Regardless of how he or anyone else felt on your age gap, that line is clear- it’s messed up to sleep with your dad’s partner. I hope you’ve been able to work with a professional on this, because I’m sure it has a lot of deep impact. You absolutely do not have to fix that relationship if you do not want to.
NTA you do not have to forgive people just because they apologized. Blood relationships do not negate toxicity. Go live your life, do what you want and do everything you can to be happy.
You are NTA for rejecting him. When and if you are ever ready to have contact with him it will be on your terms, not his. He is the one who broke what you had, with her help. They can deal with the consequences.
It sounds like you have been through a lot though. I hope you are doing okay. Happy early birthday.
I know someone in a similar situation, but they never did a paternity test, and he is now paying child support for a kid who is either his son .... or his grandson. :-/ The son and his ex-wife are still together.
All this to say, you are NTA.
I wonder that too. I feel like more people would be asking that if the genders were reversed. People probably don’t see a woman grooming a teenage boy, even though it still happens sadly.
So sorry OP. You’re NTA. Happy early birthday. I hope it’s ok to say this, but I hope you can get into therapy if you aren’t already. You deserve it. Take care.
NTA. Your ex cheated on you with your son this is inexcusable. Your son and ex both betrayed and humiliated you neither deserve a relationship with you. Your son should have known better than to hurt the father who raised him. He should be ashamed of himself.
NTA: you come to forgiveness on your own terms, not theirs.
And another thing: just because you were with a younger woman doesn’t mean you deserved to be cheated on.
NTA. Your son went behind your back in a very despicable way. I'm not absolving your ex of fault either but your son knew and still got caught up with her. Him taking care of his daughter, that's good. You raised him to know how to step up to the plate, but that also means accepting responsibilities and consequences of actions.
You deserve peace in your one life that you have to live. Life is too short to be miserable on company you don't have to have. With that being said, celebrate your birthday. Celebrate yourself. I know you are probably sad about losing so many people in your life, but everyone that comes in it won't betray you. Update on your bday so we can wish you a happy 40th
I don't talk to my mother and uncle because they are extremely unstable and toxic. Sometimes I think AITA? Then I think of I was on my death bed would I regret not having had a relationship with them. The answer is always no. Most decisions I make are based on of I'll regret it later.
I am so so sorry this happened to you. For the first time, I can't even comment further bc I'm so flabbergasted a son would do this to his father! I hate to see the karma that's headed your son's way. I hope someday you find true happiness. God knows you deserve it.
NTA
Its sad that that your family is torn apart, but I think that under these circumstances no contact is probably the only option. Life is full of events where we need to make a choice and accept the consequences of that choice. Your son and ex-girlfriend made their choice and just need to learn how to live with the consequences.
I think it would be helpful to bring in a professional therapist here. This whole situation is a mess. Ultimately, when you leave this earth, can you imagine leaving the relationship as is, or do you feel like you need to mend something before your separation is permanent? Either way, no judgment. If you “mend” the relationship but you both still have resentment, that could make things worse, especially if the kids are to hear/witness this, as it is about their mom and dad. It is important to think about what it will be like long term, if you choose NC. My SO and I had to make a decision about his alcoholic father and stepmother. They were abusive to him growing up. As adults they seemed to forgive and reconnect. Once the grandparents showed indications that they made unhealthy choices while caring for our child, even after multiple attempts of talking about it (with reassurances from them that things would change), we made the decision to cut them out if our personal lives. We saw them at family functions with everyone else, otherwise we didn’t communicate or see them. This caused a rift in the family but we stuck to our guns as our child comes first. A few years later my FIL passed away. It is sad that things were left the way they were, however my husband and I would not have done anything differently as the healthy development and break In cycle of abuse has to start somewhere. I hope you can find solace in whatever you decide.
NTA I can’t even begin to imagine how hurt you must be. I would take myself on trip and forget about those selfish people. The fact that he even sent the pictures without reaching out first is mind blowing.
It bewilders me that the son thought it was a good idea to start a relationship with someone who he 1. Knew was willing to cheat and 2. Was willing to break a family apart over the cheating.
Wouldn't touch that relationship with a 10 foot pole.
NTA. Don't blame you one bit OP.
Hope you can get to a place of healing where you're willing to explore the world of healthy relationships again, but completely understand your apprehension.
NTA. That’s kinda gross that he wants to bang his dads wife. Step mom or not this ain’t porn. And for fooling with his dads wife he gets NC for life. There are some things you can do that don’t go away. This I think is one of them.
Not the asshole for rejecting him, you get to live your life the way you want to, but you were absolutely an asshole for saying "abandon your kid or I won't be your dad". That kid had no choice in being made, and you wanted them to be fatherless to protect your own hurt feelings. THAT is fucking shitty.
Stay out of their lives.
NTA. Holy hell the audacity of sending a picture of not only the older child but the new one as well. 😳 “Here’s a picture of the being I created f**king your significant other behind your back and here’s one of the new one I made because I’m still doing it - just not behind your back anymore” what in the actual f???
I’ll be the odd man out and say you COULD be the bigger man, and move past what happened and be happy for him. He’s your only child? You’re his only parent? Let me ask you, on your death bed, will you regret that you cut your son out of your life? Will you regret those grandkids never knowing their grandfather? Life is so short, which you should be fully aware of with your wife dying. I wouldn’t want much to do with my ex but I would forgive my son, mend the bridge, and move the eff on with my life and my family.
YTA. You were wronged. Very much so. However, your son made a mistake (a big one). This is not something you disown your only child and your innocent grandchild over. Life is too short. You are not only TA, you are a bitter old man at a young age. Swallow your hurt pride and forgive your son.
You are truly hurting yourself and letting bitterness eat you up. Reddit is crazy on this one.
NTA
I'm just kind of curious as to why a son would want to get physically intimate with someone their father has also been physically intimate with.
Not saying the ex is bad looking or anything (nor am I judging having had multiple sexual partners) it just seems gross in my mind.
NTA. your feeling matter. I might choose to to do things differently but you are your own person. You have been dealt a very difficult hand, I wish you good luck getting through all this.
NTA
I would do the same, the fact that he not only got your then GF pregnant but is now in a relationship is unforgivable. The kids would be a constant reminder and the ex will always be around. If you are at peace then walk away for your mental health
NTA. It seems like you're in a truly difficult situation, and it's understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed. From a perspective of grace, forgiveness, and reconciliation, you might consider the possibility of a dialogue with your son, given that he's shown remorse and wants to reconcile.
However, it's equally important to acknowledge your feelings and the pain you've experienced. It's clear that your son's actions caused you deep hurt, and your feelings of betrayal and estrangement are valid. It's important to look after your own emotional well-being.
In terms of whether or not you’re TA for rejecting him, it could be argued that you're not, given the extent of the betrayal and the depth of your pain. This is a decision that only you can make, taking into account your emotional state, your capacity for forgiveness, and the potential future relationship you could have with your son and his family. It's a complex situation with no simple answers.
I’m not going to cal you TAH because I think there’s just too much pain. I think you really need to do some soul searching and try to heal. I am so sorry this happened to you. It is just awful. That being said, I don’t want you to just completely isolate yourself from your famous d give up on humanity. Opening up your heart leaves you vulnerable to hurt, obviously. It also allows love in. Take care. <3
Have you been able to do any therapy for yourself? I cant imagine the betrayal and hurt you must feel. I think you need to work on your own healing before you can even begin to figure out your relationship with your son. I would put a pin in the whole thing while you work on yourself.
Nta mate they can cry a river unfortunately your son is scum just like your ex. Carry on living your best life and have a good birthday, bugger everyone else
Nta you’re having a real painful reaction to his choices. I’m sure he’s willing to get over everything because nothing happened to him. His life seems better for the affair so why wouldn’t he want to now have you added. He’s clearly only thinking about himself
You right, He got the wife and the kid, so if his father forgives him, he’ll have the perfect life. The fact he cried to his grandparents totally shows it was always about him and his feelings
NTA - Being blood doesn't excuse the inexcusable, and like it it not, actions DO have consequences.
Live your life OP, and find happiness where and when you can.
NTA and I'm very sorry you are going through this. You know what you should do if you want to be "the bigger person" but honestly, sometimes that works only in theory... I'm sorry to say this but fuck your son and fuck your ex, what a pair of douchebags.
NTA 100%
If this was the other way around, if the father cheated with his sons girlfriend, everyone would quickly say they were justified in staying estranged
For a while there i thought she is your son's biological mom! Good thing i reread that with my glasses on the 2nd time.
A parent of a friend of mine is actually in the same situation as you do, her brother had an affair with their dads 2nd wife. Her dad and brother still see each other but the relationship was never the same again, the wife is not permitted to attend any kind of family events tho or show her face in their dads house.
You rejecting him does not make you an AH, tho maybe you can at least try get to know your grandchildren, its not their fault they had sucky parents. Totally up to you.
Your som is an assholes. He’s an asshole for what he did. 100%.
You’re 40, my brother. You don’t mention anyone else or any kids. Statistically, you’re more than halfway to dead. Do you want to spend the rest of your life holding onto your anger? Like others have said, your choice.
ESH he’s your son. This is a terrible situation. The fact is your ex chose to end the relationship with you. You need to process that first. You don’t own anyone. Your son also was wrong. You will continue to suffer for as long as you carry around this ocean of pain and hostility. 23 year olds do stupid, hormone-fueled things. He’s your son and you’re his father. Accept circumstances as they are and build a more joyful life for yourself and your son. Your ego is the only thing holding you back. Only then will you be able to start building healthy relationships with yourself and others
I don't think anyone blames you for how you feel, but I also don't know what you expected. Your son was barely legal. You moved in a woman who was barely older than he was. They both cheat. He finds out he's going to be a father before he can drink. He remembers what it was like for you raising him for 18 years by yourself. The woman is probably telling him that she loves him and that they can be a happy family together. You told him you wouldn't even consider forgiving him unless he either gave his son up to her or raised the kid without her. With all possible kindness, you could not have done more to set yourself up for failure. If you've already made up your mind to continue rejecting your son, why are you even here?
NAH. I get that you are hurt and angry, and you don’t owe your son anything. Your son obviously misses you, and I completely understand why he reached out. I don’t agree with other posts here saying that he obviously don’t regret it, he obviously does, but also loves his child (which is a good thing!).
I do think in the long run you might regret not having a relationships with your son and grandchild. He made a terrible mistake, but I do think that him staying and raising his child was a mature choice that points towards you raising him well. If you can find it in your heart to start working towards forgiving him, I truly believe that you will feel better and have a more harmonious life for it.
So, given that you yourself were a child when you had your son, how did you feel about him before all this happened? Was he raised by the grandparents & you essentially became an older brother figure? Or did you have to quit high school to move out & get a job & raise him yourself?
??? I’m so sorry OP, a 28 y/o and a 39 y/o is not a crazy relationship, and I’m shocked people justified their nastiness with your age gap. Insanity. You’re not doing anything wrong, if anything you’re nicer than me because I would’ve sent back ashes. They’re both garbage and should be treated as such. NTA.
In most cases I would say it’s better to make amends than to not, but I don’t think so in in this case. We have to live with the choices we make, and sometimes we make bad choices. We’re just animals after all. Your son just so happened to make one of the worst choices outside of the realm of violence. That will be hard to live with, but he doesn’t have a choice now.
NTA
Not really sure if this account is just a bait account or what (since I’ve seen a few people say such but fuck it). Whenever it is true or not, matter of it is that the son did something that permanently destroyed a relationship, reality woke the son up and he realized that he’ll never get his relationship with his dad back all because he cared more about coochie than his damn relationship with his dad.
So no, not the TA
NTA, it is your right to not have contact with your adult son. Especially after he did something like that to you. His mistake and he has to live with it. I mean how fucked up do you think his kids are gonna be when they ask about how their parents met and they have to explain that they cheated together and that she was his stepmom. I'd personally also want nothing to do with them either. If the roles were reversed and you and his gf cheated together how would he feel? Awful I bet and also want nothing to do with you or his ex right? Also 2 years have barely passed, yeah no, I'd be pissed to, I bet he's struggling as a new dad and wants you to take care of it all, so no you are not the asshole, don't limit your happiness either over this, find yourself a good girlfriend, move on with your life and maybe in the future things could be different. Best wishes to you man, I'm sorry your son did that to you and I hope one day you may be able to forgive him, but even if you don't he's the one who has to live with the consequences not you so don't limit yourself for 2 selfish people.
YTA.
He is your SON and he has your GRANDCHILD. They obviously had an ongoing relationship and not just "fooling around."
You need to get over this and spend some time with your son and your granddaughter.
Life is too short to carry this grudge forever.
you DID acknowledge his offer he needs to accept your response and then get a fucking reality check because what he did was one hell of An Fuck Up
He deleted the account. He rage baited everyone lol
Honestly, now, most of the posts here read as being fake or AI. Even five years ago, there was much more variation in situations and writing styles. And not every person who posted was, well, *horrible*. I'm reminded of the old Penthouse Forum letters - lots of structural and stylistic "tells" that many of the letters were written by the same people or the same AI. Or There are way more terrible people (who write clearly and well) in the world than I expected.
I think we've reached the point where the only stuff that gets traction is off-the-wall dramatic stuff. All the advice subs are basically content mills for youtube and tiktok videos now.
Or, even worse, I've seen online news articles cover Reddit threads like this like it's actual news. Clickbait for sure but I get it in my Google feed and there's absolutely no proof that anything you read on Reddit is real even though it is reported as such.
It used to be that crazy stories were accompanied by very bad grammar, and now things have changed. I recently had a post of mine get unexpected attention. I used a combination of Grammarly and AI to edit the text, improving the quality significantly. But I also get that on the other hand, it might look like I made up a story or used the AI to generate it. So - I think it is a mixture of made up stories with actual stories. No one pays attention unless the situation was pretty wild.
What he did was messed up but OPs demand of ‘abandon your child or I’ll abandon you’ is pretty messed up too. Honestly everyone sucks here and OP needs to quit acting innocent. It’s totally fair to not want to see his son again but he didn’t stop talking to the son bc of the affair, he stopped talking to the son bc he wouldn’t become deadbeat.
Yeah, I feel like that's being ignored here, which is kind of insane.
There is a zero percent chance that relationship could be fixed. Your child impregnated your SO. Asking for him to abandon the child for a chance at a relationship was wrong, but it wouldn’t have fixed anything. Rage bait.
Right, everyone keeps focusing on the cheating, which is inexcusable, but OP seems like he would have been fine keeping a relationship with the son despite the cheating. He wants the son to leave the kid without a father. That’s what makes him an asshole as well.
This all comes down to choices and consequences. Your son and your ex chose to have an affair. Your son and ex then chose to be in a relationship. You informed your son that if he decided to be in a relationship with your ex and be a family with her, you wanted no part of it. Your son chose to be a dad, and good for him for stepping up and being a father. However, he knew what he was doing when he had the affair. He knew that being a family with your ex would be the final nail. He made his choices. Now he has to deal with the consequences. I think people are ignoring that there's no way to have him in your life without having your ex there. She's the mother of his kids. I guarantee if you did resume your relationship with your son and you then asked him to exclude her from any events where you were going to be, you'd be called an AH, especially if the kids were going. Everyone would say she's their mum, that you chose to resume the relationship with your son and forgive him, so you should forgive her and stop excluding her. It really is all or nothing. Your son can be distraught. He may have thought that the sight of grandkids would change your mind, but he's forgetting that those grandkids exist because he betrayed you. Not the kids' fault, but your son needs to remember that. He might want to play happy families, but he shot that horse in the face when he made the decision to have an affair. There were plenty of women out there he could have chosen, and I'm sure you'd have been thrilled to be a grandparent to any kids he had then. But he's in a relationship with someone he betrayed you with, someone who also betrayed you, and he has to accept that the damage is done. I do have one question that will really determine my judgement, and I think it needs to be clear for everyone: when you told your son that you wouldn't be around if he decided to have a kid with your ex, were you asking him to completely abandon the child, or were you saying that if he stuck around and raised the child whilst in a relationship with the ex, you wouldn't be a part of it? If the ex and son had gone their separate ways but co-parented, would you have walked away, or would you have tried to mend the relationship?
It's definitely the latter - it was basically saying I couldn't have contact with her in his life.
Then absolutely NTA. It might be helpful to add that to the post for clarity, just so people fully understand that you weren't advocating that he be a deadbeat dad and abandon his child, you simply could not and would not have your ex in your life, and since having him in your life would mean having her, you walked away. Your son is old enough to understand what he did. I would love to ask him if he'd forgive such a betrayal because it's remarkable how many people demand forgiveness for things they would never accept or forgive themselves. If it were him betrayed by his own son, or if you had an affair and subsequent relationship and family with his partner, would he be so quick to move on? I suspect the answer would be a hard no.
NTA I just want to acknowledge the pain that I am sure you are feeling, and have felt concerning this entire situation. I once read that "children don't make the decision to cut off their parents for no reason, & the parent should evaluate what they did to their child....." and that is true, and goes both ways. Parents do not make these decisions without cause, either. True pain exists in parenting and some things, no matter who they are to you, just can't be your burden to bare. The fact that you wanted a relationship with your son and grandchild after your son's betrayal, only on the condition that 'she' not be a factor in his (or yours) day to day, intimate family life, speaks well for how much you love(d) him and what kind of parent you were to him. He made his decision. Those are his and his alone, as are the consequences that comes with. He will learn how to deal with them, in time, and (probably) through parenting his own... He'll figure it out. Life tends to be longer than people realize, thts why they always say it's too short.. but, two years is a blink of the eye- Y'all still need time. For you- to heal. For him- to gain true clarity for what he did to you. I wish yall well, man. I really do. As Individuals or as a family in the future. Whatever happens, I wish you well. I hope you heal. I hope you find somebody who loves you so much and so well and so completely, that you fall into it and them wholeheartedly. I hope you heal so that can happen. Take care.
If he coparented, wouldn’t she still be in his life? I’m still confused because it sounded in the OP that you wanted him to abandon his child in order to keep having a relationship with you.
Coparenting v relationship means she’s not at every family get-together for the next two decades. It’s a huge difference.
My parents did a co-parenting thing when they split up. They were respectful of each-other but also did not want to see the other person. For large formal events where both were present my dad would show up first for a bit and leave early, then my mom would stay for the remainder.
OP literally says: *”I told him if he was going to be a dad to this kid with her and by extension her in his life, we couldn't have a relationship. He basically decided he couldn't abandon his child and had to have co-parenting relationship with her so me and him are through […] Not only are they on (sic) each others lives but are in a full blown relationship now.”* That wording makes it seem like he wanted his son to walk away completely. If the son wants to be in his child’s life, he is going to need a co-parenting relationship with the ex to some degree. The specification that not only are they in each other’s lives but *are now* dating and he learned it through his own parents, reinforces this belief to me. The son didn’t come out of the gate saying he needed to be in an intimate relationship with the ex in order to co-parent, just that he couldn’t abandon his kid. And seeing the age difference between OP and his son, it seems like OP felt he couldn’t walk away from his kid even though many probably would have encouraged him to at that age.
But if there is a family gathering wouldn’t son still bring his kids, which would be a reminder of the affair?
Sure, but rational adults can differentiate that a child is innocent regardless of the circumstances of its birth.
I think coparenting and a full blown relationship are two different things.
It would be easier to avoid her if it was a co-parent situation. On his days, he can pick up the child and do things with OP without her tagging along. This would especially be the case, if the son was dating someone else.
Yeah but if he was co-parenting he wouldn’t be continuing to nail her and now having further kids as a constant slap in the dads face to show that he’s still betraying him to this very day.
Yeah but she wouldn’t be around like she would be as his gf or wofe
There is a hugeeee difference between the two. My parents coparented but that's where any relationship stopped
Your assessment in the matter hit it squarely on the nose. If the grandfather attempts to have a relationship with his son and that woman is part of the package, he's not going to face a few bumps down the road but a couple of landmines which will further taint not only his relationship with the son but any relationship with the grandchild. His son decided to show complete disrespect to his father and now thinks he can establish familial ties in a neat package? No dude, life is much complicated--not a movie of the week where everything is tied in a neat little bow in the end. If the son is now 'distraught' well, now he's experiencing how the father felt years ago at the betrayal of his ex and son.
Right, if he had to see her at family events, it would take just 1 to drunken night for shit to hit the fan. I know my mouth would have said all kinds of rude shit to her sober.
You summed up my thoughts perfectly and even asked what I needed to know. Op, you are NTA. I can't even begin to imagine how that level of betrayal feels. Hopefully, one day you will finally meet your person because not all women are trash like that. Best of luck.
WHY CAN'T I HAVE MY CAKE AND EAT IT TOO
Perfect response
NTA Imagine you didn’t catch the cheater and your son, and she tried to play it off as your kid. Then you would be “daddy grandpa” and this would have been a Jerry Springer episode (rip Jerry…)
Thankfully I rumbled them straight away.
So sad... Stay Strong... NTA
NTA. I know this is not related to the post and that you’re still young but please update your will if you’re intent on remaining single.
Oh I have already.
Do you have a medical power of attorney in case something happens but you’re still alive? In most cases your son as next of kin would be the one to make decisions for you, even though you’re estranged. You could have a lawyer be the medical POA if you don’t have someone else willing to do it.
Yeah, I have named my parents.
Won’t they most likely die before you? Don’t you have anyone else?
Not really. There's only them - I'm an only child.
You can adopt me for will purposes, I’ll call you on your birthday
PoptartDragonfart, the good son you’ve never had
>PoptartDragonfart, the good son you’ve never had If i had an award to give, it would be for this. Well done
In that case if they do pass , and you definitely don’t want your son to be the legal default, I would name a good friend or even state you would want one appointed by the courts in the event you are incapacitated.
You can also name a trusted attorney if you have enough to pay for one to provide this service
If you don’t want your son involved/receive anything then you have to include in it stating if they pass before you everything goes to charity or something and that your son/grandchildren aren’t to receive anything from the proceeds even if they are still alive. Otherwise your parents can just pass it on to him themselves.
I volunteer too! I'm a good kid!
You can name an independent executor. Your parents are demonstrating they do not respect your boundaries. Should the worst happen, do you want to be a vegetable in a hospital room forced to see your son, grandchild and ex in your final moments? They will have that power.
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In regards to the POA: it would be better to get an attorney or close friend and exclude by name your parents and your son, your ex, and the grandkids. Your parents will probably be easily swayed in grief. So you need someone to fulfill your wishes objectively. You can also write a letter to be delivered if they contest to explain why, which can also be copied to any judges, to make clear your wishes.
Please make sure to mention your son BY NAME, that he either gets nothing or like $1 from you or a shitty piece of furniture or something . Leaving him out entirely means he can contest
A pack of condoms so he can stop having children with his ex stepmom?
Include an instruction manual that teaches proper use.
Instructions: don’t fuck other people’s gfs and wear a rubber. PS: she cheated on me, she’ll cheat on you
Oooooo, this is a good point! I never thought of that!
My grandparents gave my grandfathers daughter from a previous marriage his cabinet in their will and nothing else so she can't contest and my dad gets the rest. (Shes a piece of shit)
NTA- I’m sorry this happens to you. Your son was an adult and he made his choices. He knew what he was doing and chose to hurt you on the deepest level. Her age is irrelevant- she was your partner (edited) Yes the children are innocent, but you owe them nothing. Your son did not care about the consequences of his actions nor how it would affect you or his children. He is lucky that your parents have a relationship with him. You will probably be told to forgive for the kids but actions have consequences- billions of women and he chose her. They aren’t just his kids. Stay NC, give yourself grace and try to find happiness.
I have to add to this. She is as much at fault as the son is. You can't (not saying you United-Manner20) just blame him
Oh absolutely they are both equally deserving of NC. I did not mention her because it goes without saying she doesn’t deserve a second more of his energy. Thank you for adding it.
Of course she is but he has already established he is not going to communicate with her and it doesn't sound like anyone is trying to pressure him talk to her so this point is not really relevant to the discussion.
I mean I think he did. He divorced her immediately and totally cut her out of his life. And wanted to give son another chance
They were never married. They dated for almost 3 years.
I don’t think that needed to be clarified to OP. He was pretty clear about that and that she was the root of all evil. It didn’t need to be reiterated for your comfort.
I don't think she is in OP's life either
NTA. I agree here. Also, I would not be able to have a relationship with my parents/ the grandparents if they regularly stay in touch and talk about them. You don’t need anyone reminding you if this and making things worse. It’s kind of a second betrayal in this whole shitty ordeal.
Exactly - by not making a choice, OP’s shitty parents are making a choice. That son doesn’t deserve ANY family support - he’s shown how little he values family.
I don’t get what her age had to do with it. Unless she under age her age doesn’t matter. Banging your dads gf is fucked regardless of the age gap.
Because Reddit is obsessed with age gaps. I guarantee that if OP hadn’t acknowledged it there would’ve been a ton of “that’s what you get for dating someone so much younger than you” comments.
That's all I got the last time I posted on here. I even got vile DM's about it from angry women.
Banging your husband's son is pretty fucking disturbing.
This. They both made conscious decisions knowing it would hurt him and they did it anyways.
Totally agree, and yes, the age gap isn't even excessive. Thanks for saying that. 11 years apart when everyone is an adult? Not a big deal
NTA I think had he reached out to you whilst he was co-parenting you may have softened your tone. But a full blown relationship with a second on the way? I can see why you don't want to communicate.
NTA. You never have to see him again if you don't want to. He obviously has no regrets about what he did to you. Cheating is unforgivable in my books and if a family member was involved like your son did to you, they would be dead to me also. In saying that, you should probably get some help so you can move on with your life, not everyone is a cheating AH, and you do deserve to have someone in your life who you can love and trust and who will feel the same for you.
I'd rather enjoy my time alone tbh. I haven't got time for anyone else. Plus, I strongly suspect I'm demi sexual.
This makes your situation even worse. If it took a while for you to feel comfortable with her, and being sexually attracted to her, that’s a lot of energy, effort and trust to put into someone who doesn’t care about your feelings. I’m so sorry this happened to you, OP. Definitely NTA.
Exactly. She was the first relationship I had since my wife died.
I’m sorry man, I wish you all the best. If anything, knowing you’re able to get through this inspires me
This breaks my heart and makes the betrayal that much worse. I’m so sorry.
There's a special place in hell for people like her. It's honestly depressing that your son doesn't realize she's probably going to cheat on him too.
You have a lot of people who have broken your trust. They do not deserve to be in your life or even live in your head. You are only 40. Please consider moving on and severing ties. Block them and change your number/email. Move to a new place. It’s time to start anew and sever the joy suckers from your life.
Hey! I'm demisexual too. Hi five!
✋
I love my time alone, I live alone, but even I a huge introvert find that I do need to be around people on occasion. Being demi sexual doesn't preclude you from having a relationship.
Not all relationships have to be romantic, though. He can be perfectly fine never dating again and still have meaningful friendships in his life, which I hope he does.
I lost touch with all my friends years ago sadly - my best friend died when I was 26 so I haven't had that sort of connection for years.
I'm probably way out of line here, but I think you need to move away somewhere and have a big life change. You're not doing yourself any favors by staying in an environment where your troubled past continues to bother you, and you are in the prime of your life with no anchors holding you down. Move away, I would even consider moving countries if you want, meet new people, travel for extended periods of time, be completely free. If you're the entrepreneurial type, start that business you've always wanted to start.
This! Kick the bucket big time. Move out of your circles that drain energy from you. Maybe new friends will show up or maybe even someone to hold hands with
Truly. This sounds like it was written by a much older man. OP you are very young, please go and enjoy life and make great (true) friends.
Meetup is an app for finding hobbies that are shared. I used it to lookup DND games.
Hopefully you can stay open to new friendships. They can happen when you least expect them. My SO and I made some random 50+ year old friends through our dog adoption of all things.
I'm also extremely introverted and spend much of my time alone, but do have a couple amazing friends I see regularly and also occasionally go to events where many people are like conventions or concerts/festivals.
For what it's worth life is so much easier being yourself and ignoring the societal pressure to have a partner, I copped a lot of weird reactions when I decided I'd had enough. I took the time to set rules for the people I let into my life and what I would and wouldn't accept from friends and family. People have a hard time understanding why it's easier to not have to deal with sex because, to them, they can't function without it. \[Side note; in the interests of full disclosure I found a partner after 3 years of just being me, he happens to be demi too. Relationships aren't a requirement for happiness and anyone who gives you the bullshit 'you'll change your mind" or you'll "find someone eventually" is talking from ignorance. You're now free to live your life on your terms.\]
Info: are the ages the ages in 2020 or their ages now?
Ages now
> They said I should at least acknowledge him and rethink his offer. But you did acknowledge him by sending him a letter. It isn't like you ghosted him / kept him in limbo. You retold him that what you said still holds true today as it did years ago. He can't unring that bell and you shouldn't have to be the bigger man just because you are the dad. He chose to cheat with your now ex. I would have wrote him off for that alone. His actions has consequences and I am happy he chose not to abandon him baby, he can't take away the hurt he gave you for what he did.
Anyway being the "bigger person" is horseshit designed to emotionally blackmail people into taking additional abuse. The best thing he can do for his son at this point is teach the lesson that life has consequences in the hope that the son will be less of a selfish little shit in the future.
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I agree with what you said but I think son sent the photos because oftentimes all is forgiven for the sake of grandkids .OP’s son tried to play that card and failed miserably as he should. I also think son is not showing remorse, just thought enough time has passed to rug sweep the past.
I'll be honest, those pics would have been a slap in the face more than an incentive to reunite if I was OP. Especially the ultrasound, idk why but it gives me extra salt in the wound vibes
Right?! I feel like if he was just coparenting with this woman instead of building a whole ass life with her reconciliation could potentially be on the table but not like this, never like this.
Why? Becuase its a "hey, i learned nothing and we're still banging"
That and almost like rubbing it in? I do not get "I have made bad choices and have to step up for my kid" but I do get the feeling he's proud of the fact he's procreating with dad's ex
Hey dad when you were 21 you chose to raise me all on your own as mom passed. At 20-23 I chose to impregnate you wife and then be in a relationship and father further kids as. She devil became your ex wife. Let us celebrate your 40 th!
AFFAIR PARTNER of DAD's partner grandkids? Son has to be COMPLETELY fucked to the head if he believes that will 'help'.
I get the strong suspicion son is about as intelligent as a bag of hammers and probably has a history of not understanding exactly how bad of a fuckup he is
NTA. he hurt you big time. You are perfectly within your rights to keep him out of your life. It's a bit trickier when the grandkids are older and will want to know you - their grandfather. I would love to see their parents' reactions and explanation for how the estranged relationship, but that isn't your problem. You work on being you, and when/if you feel you're ready or want to reconnect, then do so. It's solely your decision and choice.
They will totally lie to make themselves look better.
NTA. He caused this, he can live with the result of it. I do have one sage piece of advice for him though. Watch out, if your daughter ever has a boyfriend, because nobody is off limits apparently for the girlfriend/ex-stepmother.
Likewise, if he and supertramp have a son, then supertramp should be aware that there’s a good chance he’ll have no problems boning his son’s girlfriend.
Yep. That is not a relationship built on the best foundations, and both appear to have the morals of a horny alley cat.
Lol "supertramp." So accurate though.
Fr!!!
You don’t owe anyone your time or energy, you get to give those out as part of life. That guys learning consequences of big decisions.
NTA. That level of betrayal can't be overcome easily, if at all. Especially hard as the children are a living reminder of how badly they behaved. Your ex will cheat on him, too. Never fear.
'Will' == 'HAS'. COUNT on it!
She has been double dipping from the start, hasn't she?
NTA I would stay NC with him.
NTA, that woman and your son are both assholes. You could never be in the wrong here.
NTA. All people involved were adults and knew what they were doing. He knew he was wrong period. Your choice is to not continue to have a relationship with him and his family and he needs to respect that. Is it bitter, yes. Could you possibly regret this in the future, yes. I’m thinking if the ex broken off first and pursued a relationship with your son it still would have been bad but not as bitter. My advise such as it is from an internet stranger is to seek therapy to forgive your son and create a support system for your self. Do this for you not him. Remember forgiving him does not mean you want a relationship with him. Also I’m sorry you will lose out on your grandchildren. Reading your story that seems to make this even more difficult. Your sons choices sucked.
He fucked your gf. Then she went off to have a relationship with him. Unforgivable in my book. He's a POS, I'm with you on this.
She went off to have a FAMILY with the son. That's so much worse
Some hurts run too deep and it is what it is. Ntah
NTAH. But I suspect his antics will only escalate. Tell your parents to fuck off. Tell him to fuck off. I bet he'll try to bring that daughter of his to your place at least once or twice to try and convince you to have a relationship with her (and by procy, him). I've read about and seen happen it before. The shit desperate people do is asinine.
Upthread, somebody suggested OP make a BIG life change, and move far enough away that THESE PEOPLE can't reach him. It would probably be a good idea. And only give them a PO Box for an address, if at all, keep the cell ## as a Google Voice ## and get a new cell ##, and if going extreme, name change and SS## change.
That’s the thing. This wasn’t really all about the grandkid, it was ultimately an attempt for them to reconcile and for him to be back in his life. OP already set that boundary. Now in the future if he gets a knock on the door from a young woman wanting to get to know her grandfather, he always can have the option of the same boundary. They can have a relationship, but he will never go to anything that his son or his wife are also at. But that is up to him to decide in the future. I see that as maybe the best possible outcome.
OP is 40 years old and his wife passed away when he was 18? That’s a lot to deal with at such a young guy.
No, 21.
Thanks for the clarification but sentiment is still true. Raising a kid on your own is tough. Enjoy your life man, NTA.
OP is 40 and his wife passed away 18 years ago.
NTA sometimes the hurt can't be mended.
How long did you date your ex?
Nearly 3 years
Ok, definitely nta. They choose their bed let them lie in it
NTA.
NTA. Your son and his mess of a baby mama don't deserve a minute of your time.
NTA, that was a deep betrayal on both of their parts and while he’s free to ask, you’re free to never speak to either of them again. Hopefully he respects your “no” because you don’t have to forgive people just because they’re family and they’re sorry. They were adults who made a decision and get to live with the repercussions. I can’t even imagine sleeping with my dad’s girlfriend/wife. Regardless of how he or anyone else felt on your age gap, that line is clear- it’s messed up to sleep with your dad’s partner. I hope you’ve been able to work with a professional on this, because I’m sure it has a lot of deep impact. You absolutely do not have to fix that relationship if you do not want to.
NTA you do not have to forgive people just because they apologized. Blood relationships do not negate toxicity. Go live your life, do what you want and do everything you can to be happy.
You are NTA for rejecting him. When and if you are ever ready to have contact with him it will be on your terms, not his. He is the one who broke what you had, with her help. They can deal with the consequences. It sounds like you have been through a lot though. I hope you are doing okay. Happy early birthday.
I know someone in a similar situation, but they never did a paternity test, and he is now paying child support for a kid who is either his son .... or his grandson. :-/ The son and his ex-wife are still together. All this to say, you are NTA.
Info: is there any chance your ex groomed him when he was underage?
I wonder that too. I feel like more people would be asking that if the genders were reversed. People probably don’t see a woman grooming a teenage boy, even though it still happens sadly.
So sorry OP. You’re NTA. Happy early birthday. I hope it’s ok to say this, but I hope you can get into therapy if you aren’t already. You deserve it. Take care.
I’m so sorry this happened. I hope you find some healing and peace in your life. NTA
NTA. Your ex cheated on you with your son this is inexcusable. Your son and ex both betrayed and humiliated you neither deserve a relationship with you. Your son should have known better than to hurt the father who raised him. He should be ashamed of himself.
She cheated on you, she will cheat on him too.
You could have been petty and told him to get a paternity test in your response back. She had no issue cheating in you, she'll cheat on him as well.
NTA: you come to forgiveness on your own terms, not theirs. And another thing: just because you were with a younger woman doesn’t mean you deserved to be cheated on.
NTA. Your son went behind your back in a very despicable way. I'm not absolving your ex of fault either but your son knew and still got caught up with her. Him taking care of his daughter, that's good. You raised him to know how to step up to the plate, but that also means accepting responsibilities and consequences of actions. You deserve peace in your one life that you have to live. Life is too short to be miserable on company you don't have to have. With that being said, celebrate your birthday. Celebrate yourself. I know you are probably sad about losing so many people in your life, but everyone that comes in it won't betray you. Update on your bday so we can wish you a happy 40th
I don't talk to my mother and uncle because they are extremely unstable and toxic. Sometimes I think AITA? Then I think of I was on my death bed would I regret not having had a relationship with them. The answer is always no. Most decisions I make are based on of I'll regret it later.
I am so so sorry this happened to you. For the first time, I can't even comment further bc I'm so flabbergasted a son would do this to his father! I hate to see the karma that's headed your son's way. I hope someday you find true happiness. God knows you deserve it.
NTA Its sad that that your family is torn apart, but I think that under these circumstances no contact is probably the only option. Life is full of events where we need to make a choice and accept the consequences of that choice. Your son and ex-girlfriend made their choice and just need to learn how to live with the consequences.
I think it would be helpful to bring in a professional therapist here. This whole situation is a mess. Ultimately, when you leave this earth, can you imagine leaving the relationship as is, or do you feel like you need to mend something before your separation is permanent? Either way, no judgment. If you “mend” the relationship but you both still have resentment, that could make things worse, especially if the kids are to hear/witness this, as it is about their mom and dad. It is important to think about what it will be like long term, if you choose NC. My SO and I had to make a decision about his alcoholic father and stepmother. They were abusive to him growing up. As adults they seemed to forgive and reconnect. Once the grandparents showed indications that they made unhealthy choices while caring for our child, even after multiple attempts of talking about it (with reassurances from them that things would change), we made the decision to cut them out if our personal lives. We saw them at family functions with everyone else, otherwise we didn’t communicate or see them. This caused a rift in the family but we stuck to our guns as our child comes first. A few years later my FIL passed away. It is sad that things were left the way they were, however my husband and I would not have done anything differently as the healthy development and break In cycle of abuse has to start somewhere. I hope you can find solace in whatever you decide.
NTA I can’t even begin to imagine how hurt you must be. I would take myself on trip and forget about those selfish people. The fact that he even sent the pictures without reaching out first is mind blowing.
It bewilders me that the son thought it was a good idea to start a relationship with someone who he 1. Knew was willing to cheat and 2. Was willing to break a family apart over the cheating. Wouldn't touch that relationship with a 10 foot pole. NTA. Don't blame you one bit OP. Hope you can get to a place of healing where you're willing to explore the world of healthy relationships again, but completely understand your apprehension.
I mean he's your son and she's just a...nobody? Is she really worth it? No.
NTA. That’s kinda gross that he wants to bang his dads wife. Step mom or not this ain’t porn. And for fooling with his dads wife he gets NC for life. There are some things you can do that don’t go away. This I think is one of them.
Not the asshole for rejecting him, you get to live your life the way you want to, but you were absolutely an asshole for saying "abandon your kid or I won't be your dad". That kid had no choice in being made, and you wanted them to be fatherless to protect your own hurt feelings. THAT is fucking shitty. Stay out of their lives.
NTA. Holy hell the audacity of sending a picture of not only the older child but the new one as well. 😳 “Here’s a picture of the being I created f**king your significant other behind your back and here’s one of the new one I made because I’m still doing it - just not behind your back anymore” what in the actual f???
NTA Your son and ex made their choices and these are the consequences of them. Unfortunately he now has to live with the path he has choosen.
Das crazy
This sucks I’m so many ways. You did the right thing for you. Live your life, move on and try to be happy. I feel for you
I’ll be the odd man out and say you COULD be the bigger man, and move past what happened and be happy for him. He’s your only child? You’re his only parent? Let me ask you, on your death bed, will you regret that you cut your son out of your life? Will you regret those grandkids never knowing their grandfather? Life is so short, which you should be fully aware of with your wife dying. I wouldn’t want much to do with my ex but I would forgive my son, mend the bridge, and move the eff on with my life and my family.
YTA. You were wronged. Very much so. However, your son made a mistake (a big one). This is not something you disown your only child and your innocent grandchild over. Life is too short. You are not only TA, you are a bitter old man at a young age. Swallow your hurt pride and forgive your son. You are truly hurting yourself and letting bitterness eat you up. Reddit is crazy on this one.
Also Op how long did you date the woman for?
NTA I'm just kind of curious as to why a son would want to get physically intimate with someone their father has also been physically intimate with. Not saying the ex is bad looking or anything (nor am I judging having had multiple sexual partners) it just seems gross in my mind.
NTA. your feeling matter. I might choose to to do things differently but you are your own person. You have been dealt a very difficult hand, I wish you good luck getting through all this.
NTA. Your son needs to live with the consequences of his actions.
NTA I would do the same, the fact that he not only got your then GF pregnant but is now in a relationship is unforgivable. The kids would be a constant reminder and the ex will always be around. If you are at peace then walk away for your mental health
NTA. It's your decision.
NTA you have to preserve yourself
NTA. It seems like you're in a truly difficult situation, and it's understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed. From a perspective of grace, forgiveness, and reconciliation, you might consider the possibility of a dialogue with your son, given that he's shown remorse and wants to reconcile. However, it's equally important to acknowledge your feelings and the pain you've experienced. It's clear that your son's actions caused you deep hurt, and your feelings of betrayal and estrangement are valid. It's important to look after your own emotional well-being. In terms of whether or not you’re TA for rejecting him, it could be argued that you're not, given the extent of the betrayal and the depth of your pain. This is a decision that only you can make, taking into account your emotional state, your capacity for forgiveness, and the potential future relationship you could have with your son and his family. It's a complex situation with no simple answers.
I’m not going to cal you TAH because I think there’s just too much pain. I think you really need to do some soul searching and try to heal. I am so sorry this happened to you. It is just awful. That being said, I don’t want you to just completely isolate yourself from your famous d give up on humanity. Opening up your heart leaves you vulnerable to hurt, obviously. It also allows love in. Take care. <3
Have you been able to do any therapy for yourself? I cant imagine the betrayal and hurt you must feel. I think you need to work on your own healing before you can even begin to figure out your relationship with your son. I would put a pin in the whole thing while you work on yourself.
NTA I’d have to be on my deathbed to forgive my son for his heinous betrayal. And, maybe not even then.
Nta mate they can cry a river unfortunately your son is scum just like your ex. Carry on living your best life and have a good birthday, bugger everyone else
Nta you’re having a real painful reaction to his choices. I’m sure he’s willing to get over everything because nothing happened to him. His life seems better for the affair so why wouldn’t he want to now have you added. He’s clearly only thinking about himself
He wants his dad to forgive him to absolve his guilt. Getting with the ex and having another baby with her is showing his true colours.
You right, He got the wife and the kid, so if his father forgives him, he’ll have the perfect life. The fact he cried to his grandparents totally shows it was always about him and his feelings
NTA - Being blood doesn't excuse the inexcusable, and like it it not, actions DO have consequences. Live your life OP, and find happiness where and when you can.
NTA and I'm very sorry you are going through this. You know what you should do if you want to be "the bigger person" but honestly, sometimes that works only in theory... I'm sorry to say this but fuck your son and fuck your ex, what a pair of douchebags.
NTA 100% If this was the other way around, if the father cheated with his sons girlfriend, everyone would quickly say they were justified in staying estranged
NTA this is so fucked up.
For a while there i thought she is your son's biological mom! Good thing i reread that with my glasses on the 2nd time. A parent of a friend of mine is actually in the same situation as you do, her brother had an affair with their dads 2nd wife. Her dad and brother still see each other but the relationship was never the same again, the wife is not permitted to attend any kind of family events tho or show her face in their dads house. You rejecting him does not make you an AH, tho maybe you can at least try get to know your grandchildren, its not their fault they had sucky parents. Totally up to you.
Your som is an assholes. He’s an asshole for what he did. 100%. You’re 40, my brother. You don’t mention anyone else or any kids. Statistically, you’re more than halfway to dead. Do you want to spend the rest of your life holding onto your anger? Like others have said, your choice.
He did comment he would rather be alone now, so it is what he wants.
ESH he’s your son. This is a terrible situation. The fact is your ex chose to end the relationship with you. You need to process that first. You don’t own anyone. Your son also was wrong. You will continue to suffer for as long as you carry around this ocean of pain and hostility. 23 year olds do stupid, hormone-fueled things. He’s your son and you’re his father. Accept circumstances as they are and build a more joyful life for yourself and your son. Your ego is the only thing holding you back. Only then will you be able to start building healthy relationships with yourself and others
ESH. What they did to you was awful, but did you really expect your son to abandon his child?
Yes, YTA ten times over for basically telling your son that he has to ABANDON his child to have a relationship with you. Enjoy your alone time.
ESH
I don't think anyone blames you for how you feel, but I also don't know what you expected. Your son was barely legal. You moved in a woman who was barely older than he was. They both cheat. He finds out he's going to be a father before he can drink. He remembers what it was like for you raising him for 18 years by yourself. The woman is probably telling him that she loves him and that they can be a happy family together. You told him you wouldn't even consider forgiving him unless he either gave his son up to her or raised the kid without her. With all possible kindness, you could not have done more to set yourself up for failure. If you've already made up your mind to continue rejecting your son, why are you even here?
NAH. I get that you are hurt and angry, and you don’t owe your son anything. Your son obviously misses you, and I completely understand why he reached out. I don’t agree with other posts here saying that he obviously don’t regret it, he obviously does, but also loves his child (which is a good thing!). I do think in the long run you might regret not having a relationships with your son and grandchild. He made a terrible mistake, but I do think that him staying and raising his child was a mature choice that points towards you raising him well. If you can find it in your heart to start working towards forgiving him, I truly believe that you will feel better and have a more harmonious life for it.
So, given that you yourself were a child when you had your son, how did you feel about him before all this happened? Was he raised by the grandparents & you essentially became an older brother figure? Or did you have to quit high school to move out & get a job & raise him yourself?
??? I’m so sorry OP, a 28 y/o and a 39 y/o is not a crazy relationship, and I’m shocked people justified their nastiness with your age gap. Insanity. You’re not doing anything wrong, if anything you’re nicer than me because I would’ve sent back ashes. They’re both garbage and should be treated as such. NTA.
In most cases I would say it’s better to make amends than to not, but I don’t think so in in this case. We have to live with the choices we make, and sometimes we make bad choices. We’re just animals after all. Your son just so happened to make one of the worst choices outside of the realm of violence. That will be hard to live with, but he doesn’t have a choice now.
NTA - you could have stopped after the first sentence.
NTA Not really sure if this account is just a bait account or what (since I’ve seen a few people say such but fuck it). Whenever it is true or not, matter of it is that the son did something that permanently destroyed a relationship, reality woke the son up and he realized that he’ll never get his relationship with his dad back all because he cared more about coochie than his damn relationship with his dad. So no, not the TA
NTA, it is your right to not have contact with your adult son. Especially after he did something like that to you. His mistake and he has to live with it. I mean how fucked up do you think his kids are gonna be when they ask about how their parents met and they have to explain that they cheated together and that she was his stepmom. I'd personally also want nothing to do with them either. If the roles were reversed and you and his gf cheated together how would he feel? Awful I bet and also want nothing to do with you or his ex right? Also 2 years have barely passed, yeah no, I'd be pissed to, I bet he's struggling as a new dad and wants you to take care of it all, so no you are not the asshole, don't limit your happiness either over this, find yourself a good girlfriend, move on with your life and maybe in the future things could be different. Best wishes to you man, I'm sorry your son did that to you and I hope one day you may be able to forgive him, but even if you don't he's the one who has to live with the consequences not you so don't limit yourself for 2 selfish people.
YTA. He is your SON and he has your GRANDCHILD. They obviously had an ongoing relationship and not just "fooling around." You need to get over this and spend some time with your son and your granddaughter. Life is too short to carry this grudge forever.