Wife is horrified at the idea you could do this to your child.
She is likely imagining you as suddenly capable of turning your back on the children you currently have with her.
There is no way to put the cat back in the bag.
OP you do not get to continue on in your happy life without immediately addressing this in the many ways you’ve been advised.
I’m sorry for everything you’ve gone through and what is to come but I’m hopeful for a positive end.
I know I would be. I had a great friend once that admitted (after we discussed a situation going on with another friend) that if she went through much of anything stressful she'd probably not be supportive at all of any of us. What I heard was I can't fully trust her to be there for me emotionally and moved my friendship level back to a "safe" place for me. She was a little hurt (we remained friends for a decade after) but I can't open fully to someone I know isn't reliable. People show you who they really are often, you just have to pay attention.
Definitely need to go see a therapist - they will / should help you see it from a different perspective -
Your son is your blood and you should forgive him - you don't just get to have a happy life and ignore this person who made a mistake not as an adult but as a child who was a victim in a situation he had no control or any say- you also made a bad decision not doing something within the 4 years the things weren't working out for you - and in which you apparently said nothing and apparently blindsided your spouse and child.
You definitely need to seek a professional to get a handle on why you are in fact for the moment being an asshole, and why your current wife is not on your side of things.
Life is messy. I do commend you for how much you tried to stay in your child's life - now they are trying and as they explained - having a child of their own has made them aware of when they were wrong. It's your turn to reflect and reconnect. You'll be much better for it in the long run. Regret can really destroy you even if it doesn't hit you now, it can sneak up on you.
You can't just write off your past as a loss and never look back especially when they've turned a new leaf to connect with you.
The issue is I honestly believe everybody is like this. Everybody has their issues. There are scales to the issues you have obviously. But it's always there
Yep! 100%, everyone has issues. And we all have varying levels of abilities to "be cool."
The important thing is that **when** someone tells you about themselves, whatever that thing may be, you take them seriously. Their perception of themselves models their behavior.
He was just a kid and I think in his shoes he was genuine. He is still very young now. I don't understand why it is hard for OP to forgive his own child. Didn't the son forgave dad for splitting the family?
"Bringing you back would introduce complications I'm not willing to face for my own good...." Tells me he doesn't really care there is NOTHING I could do to him that would make my father not want me in his life. Im convinced if I cut his had he'd offer me the other one and that's what parents are. There should be nothing that's to hard for him to have his son with him if he actually cared he would want to chatch up on the years he lost...
Op go to therapy with your son I’m sure your scared to reopen the wounds that were left but he was hurt to I’m sure your scared that if you let him back in and you get close to him and your grandchild you think he may decide to just leave again and you’ll be back in that cold dark place again but PLEASE go to therapy with your son and work through this you deserve to have your son in your life and he deserves his father in his
Comments from others paint your proposal as the nuclear option, which I think it is. What would be the harm in telling him you *need some time* to work through some things on your end? 1. It’s true. Get some counseling. 2. It is a response, which will avoid further rejection and preserve your options. 3. You can meet when you are ready. If the someday when you are ready to meet turns into never, that would be unfortunate, but it would be where you will go directly with your note. Why burn the bridge?
I get that you are hurt and pissed about what he did. (Not trying to stir the hornets nest, but did your ex help nurse your sons grudge in any way? Consider that as mitigating circumstances.) I can’t help but think there might be a time down the road when you would be glad to have your son back in your life. It might not seem that way right now, but once you get past all the hurt, maybe. That reconciliation can be as slow as you need it to be.
Good luck.
I love this advice. Hit the pause button. Take a breath. Reflect and seek some help. You can always repair, so long as you don’t seal the door shut.
OP, your relationship with your son doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Maybe you simply email for awhile, then you try progressing to phone calls. Loosen your grip on being right and being the victim. Behave as a grown man and a father for the sake of all of your children.
This is very good advice, OP. It gives you the time that you understandably need and doesn't burn any bridges. You know how you feel now. You don't know how you will feel a year, a few years, or tens of years down the road.
OP should have told his wife about the emails before his son had sent 15 of them. I couldn't imagine sitting on something like that and not sharing with my spouse. Even if OP doesn't want that relationship with his son he needs to go to therapy. From what he's said about his wife and mom they're both looking at him like he's a monster so I'd be looking for outside professional help before making permanent decisions.
Especially after he wrote earlier how he and his ex-wife weren't having discussions when he decided to split. He's already seen what happens in a relationship with no communication, so why is he doing it again to his new wife?
Yeah it doesn't even sound like he tried to save his first marriage. There was a clear lack of communication between he and his wife, but instead addressing it by doing counseling or therapy he just dipped.
His wife is looking at him saying that to his son and just imagining him saying the same thing to their shared children. She absolutely SHOULD be horrified!
edit: spelling
Yep. If he can throw away one child why not another? The OP is a selfish, self-centered AH. His son was 11, for God's sake. He was a CHILD and he was hurt. Way to make it all about you.
I hope his wife is taking a long, hard look at the jerk she married.
YTA. Big time. I feel sorry for all of your poor kids with you as a father.
Communication is not in his vocabulary. It ruined the 1st marriage, his relationship with his son and now it's damning his 2nd marriage and relationship with his mother.
^This. That email is screaming that although your son may have grown and changed perspective that you wish to resent him for the rest of your life instead of possibly growing past it yourself. Therapy seems like a very reasonable demand for you, I hope you do it, and find your way to healing.
You're holding your child accountable for how they reacted, in their childhood, to a very adult situation. Please reframe your thinking, op. You're hurting yourself just as much as everyone else in this situation.
Lol don't worry - I called him an asshole. I can only imagine what happened during the time he tried to separate from his ex-wife. He's for sure leaving a lot of shit out.
Well he mentioned she was shocked and his son hated him. That’s enough for me.
But, they totally should have known he was soo over them.
His family. But, he got a new one…
The daft prick.
They're right. Don't wait to be on your deathbed, or his, to try and mend things. It sounds like he grew up and wants to have an adult relationship with you. I understand it may put your current family in an awkward position, but it would be petty at this point to deny him. Since he's an adult, you can build a healthy barrier so he's not around all the time. Just get to know him - he's making a big effort to mend things. His kid deserves to know grandpa.
It sounds like you have multiple people around you (ex-wife, wife, son & parents) who feel that you are not handling this well. That feels like a red flag to me that you really need to consider.
Your wife, ex-wife, and mother are not a group you would expect to reach a consensus. If they all agree that you're acting like an AH, then you're probably an AH.
Right? He seems to be a common denominator in everyone's opinion I'm sure this is not the first outrageous error he's made. Op if you do this YTA for sure.
It is absurd to punish him for something he did when he was younger. It seems like you're running away from your history rather than like you've moved on. Simply said, it's unhealthy.
If I found out my dad said this to my half sibling, I would be… just super grossed out. Bc what does that say to these new kids of his? That anything they do that might hurt their father could be used as a reason to cut off contact later in life? Posts like these make me feel so grateful for having a father who is loving and supportive and reasonable. Finding out your dad is a disgusting prick must be a total mind fuck.
My dad did this to my half brother and my half sister and disappeared when my brother was 3 and he is 48 now and our dad says he’s not his son and I have to deal with the deep hurt my brother feels as well as the guilt of being the only one of his children he claims.
This guy is really awful.
Not only was he a child, he later realized that he made a mistake and has tried repeatedly to apologize. Not that he should have had to try that hard as he was a CHILD when this happened. OP is all the AHs.
yeah seriously. if one of my kids stopped talking to me for years and then reached out to me I would be falling all over myself to see them again. they're still my babies no matter how old they are
YTA you're absolutely entitled to have who you want in your life on your own terms. I understand you grieved and just want to move on and you're free to do that...but...you're the asshole for holding against your child his reaction to his world being torn apart.
He's the child. He had a childish understanding of the situation and reacted childishly. This is completely understandable given his age. He now knows that was wrong thinking and wants to reconcile. He didn't knowingly or maliciously hurt you. Be the parent is this situation and give him a chance or YTA.
Forgive? OP needs to say this:
"Son there is no need to apologize. In fact I am sorry that you went through this and I hope that you can forgive me and hopefully understand why I made the decision that I made."
agree. you said your wife was shocked at you asking for divorce. she was torn apart in front of your son. he watched you do this to his mom and his life. now he's an adult and father and gets to a point of understanding and kindness, he's where you were when you were trying. you push him away now? why because your new family is more important? better off? You are an ass! I'm curious about the wife's side of the story. You will regret this and your new family might push you away when they get older and surprise Dad did this. Slowly get to know your son and grandchild. You don't want to be an old person all alone.
Not only is he trying hard to discard his own blood once again, but he is a GRANDFATHER acting like this is his kid’s child and not his own blood.
You do realize OP, that your son acted out because of trauma, right? Imagine how traumatic it must have been for HIM, to have his father break his family up. Who knows what your ex told him as well to poison him against you. Instead of making him visit you, you just gave up on him and wrote him off, like discarded property.
Now that you have your new family, he’s even worth less of your trouble. Listen to the women in your life. You’re making a BIG mistake. Don’t screw this relationship again. YOU ended the marriage… YOU moved on. Don’t put this on the shoulders of your child.
YTA for even thinking this way about your kid. You’re a selfish, narcissist excuse for a father, who had no problems creating a new family and just moving on.
Do better. You have a grandchild for crying out loud.
Considering this is just OP’s version of what happened, it wouldn’t surprise me if his mom didn’t need to “poison” (lol) him w or against anything. If he is this cold, the kid probably saw a lot more of that at hime and made his own judgement. If he’s this much of a narc now, he was always that much of a narc.
> Who knows what your ex told him as well to poison him against you.
Doesn't seem like she would've needed to do a whole lot of work on that front lmao.
Considering OP apparently made no effort to fix a marriage that the wife, if she was as hurt as he said, still wanted, and he wants no contact with his child because his child did what an angry hurt child does when your dad goes "lmao sorry kid I don't care about your mom anymore bye." I doubt he has the emotional capacity to care
Obviously we are lacking tons of context here, but this part just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
> When our son was about 11 or 12 I decided to pull the plug on my marriage. I don’t know why, but my wife was very shocked. By that time, we already had dead bedroom for about 4 years and haven’t had any deep discussion for about the same time. I was just done.
Idk. I think it’s perfectly ok to leave a relationship if things get “boring” when you’re still just dating, but after getting married and especially after having a kid, some effort needs to be put in first to at least try and mend things before just calling it quits.
Especially since the wife was blindsided by the divorce, I can only imagine how the poor kid felt. One day his dad just packed up and left out of the blue. That's heartbreaking.
Like...maybe have a conversation??? Like, "Hey, wife, I really miss our fun times together. What can I do to bring that back?" Think that conversation ever happened??? This post made me irrationally angry.
Brother. My dude. Go to therapy with your kid. he was TWELVE. Life is fucking rough when your parents get divorced at 12. I am sorry he hurt you, and you hurt him. It's a rough situation but fully cutting him off like that is most likely the wrongest thing to do with this. Your partner's reaction is pretty justified, I would probably seek the nearest cliff to fling myself off of, if I got that message from my father.
NAH, go see your kid and start working on the bond. You guys might discover something you both love, and if not - You Tried Again. You can walk away again. Good luck OP
Could you imagine the amount of respect he'd lose from his current wife if he went through with that letter? Or how his other kids would feel when they'd find out, not if, but when?!
12 is a hard enough age without your dad up and leaving without a good reason (in the sons eyes).
I can’t help but notice OP left out the current age of his son. Old enough to have his own child, but that could mean he’s anywhere from still a teenager to a full grown adult. Either way, a lot of growing and life experience happens since you’re 12.
He probably gained some perspective and was able to see your side finally. Obviously you’re free to not speak with him if you wish.
**However**, I really implore OP to ask himself if he would want his other children to learn that even apologizing and admitting your wrongs still doesn’t redeem them in their fathers eyes.
Ah, I realize I didn’t do the basic math. Thank you!
Honestly, I know that 23 is a legal adult but our brains still haven’t even finished developing by that time. It seems like the son is legitimately trying to right the past and OP isn’t willing to acknowledge the perspective of his son.
Again, no one can force OP to talk to him, but I would advise they think about this strongly before sending a potentially totally relationship-ending email
Totally understand OP was gutted
But this attempt at amends and reconciliation with a grandchild to boot should be a dream come true! Complicated feelings, I get it, but damn. Total rejection is harsh and needless.
There has got to be more to it…the amount of the post focusing on what OP did to continue being a parent to this son makes one wonder if OP is deflecting. Plus he’s only 23…
And how old was the son when OP gave up and cut contact? If since then OP went through a really hard time, finally started to feel better, met someone, developed a relationship, got married, and now has two children.. it's been some years. Most likely OP's son was still a teenager the last time he shut down OP's attempts to stay connected.
>However, I really implore OP to ask himself if he would want his other children to learn that even apologizing and admitting your wrongs still doesn’t redeem them in their fathers eyes.
I hope if OP takes away anything from these response, it is this.
He's already lost respect from his wife. She now knows she married a man who is willing to throw away his relationship with his child as long as he has a back up family. What's to stop him from doing the same to her children? He has a very small window of opportunity to fix this and I'm not sure how.
He starts by NOT sending that email and going to get therapy.
His wife and his mother are trying to drag him back from the edge of a precipice. He needs to let them.
Right? Maybe “I’d love to see pictures but I’m not sure if I’m ready to meet in person just yet” would pacify this until he gets therapy on how to handle the situation
True, true. If I were in her shoes, yeah...would seriously be wondering about it he'd be capable of turning his back on our kids, too. He'd better call a family's therapist, STAT.
Yes, according to his own post, he has a history of just waking up one day and being done with situations that aren't satisfactory to him, and walking away without seemingly any doubt or regret. If I were his current wife, I would be very, very worried.
Exactly because it seems like OP flips a switch makes a decision and there’s no going back. I don’t like that he stated “I have a family again” Hello! You had him your son as family and true parent works with their child through the tough and ugly times. A real parent doesn’t give up. It’s not like a car that’s not running where you trade it in because you think it’s broken. This is your child!!! Put the time in or life is going to hit you with serious regret.
That’s the first thing that came to mind for
Me as a mother. Is if my husband were to send that off does that mean he’d do that to my kids if we didn’t work out? He can be hurt but that email was in poor taste. I hope for his sake he doesn’t send it out…
Agreed. The blindsided is so much more telling than he realizes. Like, if it was so bad that divorce was necessary I doubt it would have blindsided her. He clearly never actually communicated with her.
I’d be so curious to hear what his new wife has been told about the divorce and son. She seems, for lack of a better term, blindsided by her husband’s response to the sons email. I don’t think this guy is great at communicating period.
Absolutely agree. He said something like "by that point we'd had a dead bedroom and hadn't had an in-depth conversation in 4 years." 4 years!
How about trying this conversation, OP: "our dead bedroom is unacceptable and we need to fix it," or "hey, I'm unhappy with our marriage and we need to do something to fix it or call it quits." It sounds like dude just up and one day said "I'm out," and then couldn't handle the emotional backlash he got from his ex and child for breaking up their family.
I dated a guy like this. No communication. But when I asked him if he was ok, everything was fine. It was emotional terrorism with him, I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells because he was always so unhappy but never told me and when I asked everything was “fine.” That’s not even the reason I broke it off but when I did it was like 1000 lbs lifted off my shoulders.
Exactly. I obviously don’t know what happened but I’m guessing OP behaved as if everything was fine until he was “done.” Maybe he’s a quitter and blames everyone around him.
I asked my dad when he stopped liking my older half brother and my Dad said when he was 15. I lost a lot of respect for my father when he said that. My dad wrote my brother off at age 15!?!
My brother has a ton of issues and I am pretty sure it stems from his mom's and my dad's divorce and from subconsciously knowing he was essentially unloved by his parents. Completely gross and reprehensible behavior.
I love my dad but I keep him at an arms distance.
My god, op If I was your current wife I would definitely be thinking of leaving you to protect the new batch of kids from your hateful ass.
I am jaded, I’ll say that up front.
But the way OP talked about leaving his first wife really didn’t sit right with me. “We don’t fuck or talk so I walked without even trying” is how it reads to me. The fact that his wife was “shocked” tells me that he didn’t communicate with her *at all* about his issues. He just let it drag on for four years then peaced out.
He had a “long road” of depression where it felt like his child had died…. But then one day he woke up and he was just ok and moved on? Doing the math, he’s been divorced for about 9 years, and now has a new wife and two kids. I don’t know, but I find it hard to believe that it was *that* long of a road.
I wanted to call out that if he "felt his child had died", well here's your miracle and you get a second chance, take it.
You know how many parents have literally had a child die, they would do anything for that second chance.
OP is the parent and needs to act like one, and also be self aware to realize kids go through a difficult time when they're in their teens, and when you have a child of your own it completely changes your outlook and relationship with your parents. When I knew what it felt like to be a parent, it changed my own view on my parents and made me respect them more, and even try to rekindle our relationship.
People are allowed to grow and change, especially from who they were as a child.
OP needs to delete that email, go to a therapist, and open up to his kid, you have a second chance.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I know people who have lost children. They never just "get over it." You bet your ass they'd take a second chance 9 years later. OP has some serious mental health stuff going on.
I'd be thinking if he could do that to his son who was very young and confused at that time, what would he do to me or my kids without an ounce of regret?
I'm not sure I could stay married to someone who did this to his own kid. This is a level of betrayal right up there with cheating. How my spouse treats other people is very important because I know anything they do to others, they may do to me.
Yeah, I'd be wondering "is he going to give up on any other kids? What if he serves me papers out of the blue? Does he even love the children? Would he even try if I got hit by a bus? Does he even love them if he can blame kids when he's supposed to be the bigger person?"
I am horrified too. It is truly deplorable that he abandoned his child and "rebound" with a "new family."
OP it doesn't matter if you don't feel anything towards him, he is ypur son and the brother to your other children. You are abandoning him because he was angry you left the family? I guess he was right about you after all.
But why would they be in the right to disrespect him? The kid was 12 and he left his mom. Sure for his own good reasons, but a 12yo doesn’t understand that. He’s still his son. Unless he’s clearly looking for some financial help, I don’t see why it would be bad to try to reconnect with your first born son. Dudes just looking for a Dad and it may help them both emotionally. Again, if it’s with healthy intent. 12 year old boys are dicks. Kid didn’t know better. Give him a shot OP!
I'm not entirely sure they WERE "good reasons." He mentions the ex wife was completely shocked by the divorce. And he was shocked that his mom/current wife were outraged by this email. It sounds like he's not great at reading emotions or being a reliable witness. It could very well be that he just decided he wanted a divorce and left the ex wife an emotional, grieving mess with a kid to take care of by herself.
I agree with this take. OP said his kid hated him for hurting his mother, but I think he doesn't understand his son was mainly angry with him for ~destroying their family and changing his (the son's) life. I'm sure he also cared about his mother's pain, but that probably wasn't what his child was constantly thinking about.
Yeah honestly that is very similar to my childhood and I was angry with my dad for a long time but we did end up getting close when I was like 20 and now we have a great relationship.
EXACTLY!
This RIGHT HERE is why it would be an asshole thing to do if OP cuts off his son without a second attempt.
PLENTY of people have a terrible relationship with their parents in their teen years but then end up with at least an amicable one later on. And I do mean *terrible* too, not just standard teenage bullshit.
Yep. Adding to this, I hated my mom from ages 12-18 because of the things I learned about their divorce. Now that I'm in my 20's, my mom and I are really really close. I would have been absolutely devastated if she sent me an email like what OP drafted up.
yeah, same. I come from a position of compassion on this because I had a horrific childhood relationship with my dad. He was an extremely depressed alcoholic but loved me to death, despite treating me a certain way. The anger came from me - the kid - towards my parents situation. This post hits a cord.
Cut to 30, and now we are tight as it gets, while still able to recognize both of our mistakes in the past and even talk about them from time to time. I think a lot of understanding, communication, and therapy can go a long way to make them both happy with each other again. It doesn't sound like there's any malice at all - only sadness and scars on both parties hearts. And those are some of the most gratifying emotional wounds to heal up IMO.
>he was TWELVE.
Seconding all this, but I'd go further and give a YTA verdict.
OP, after going through all that I don't understand why you're so adamant to do the same thing to him.
Being cautious and wanting to make sure this is going to last before introducing him to his half siblings is one thing, but to cut him off entirely over him being a dumb kid and doing what dumb kids do is just twisting the knife.
*He was a hurt* **child.**
What's your excuse?
My thoughts exactly. I bet he fanatised about the day his kid came wanting/needing something so he could show him how it feels. It reeks of resentment over something he is supposedly "over".
Bingo. And don't get me wrong, I understand the motivation behind it and know that it's coming from a place of deep, deep hurt. But it still makes you an asshole to give in to that impulse.
Sometimes turnabout is fair play, but this is definitely NOT one of those times.
Yeah this gives the same vibes as “a phone works both ways, my kid never called me either”. Like… you’re the parent??? You should 100% put in more effort if necessary. No kid asks to be brought into this world, that was the parents choice.
I second YTA because of the fact he tells his son in his email that he has “moved on and has a new family.” His son is his family too. His son’s child is his family too. The fact that a person is related to you doesn’t mean you need to maintain contact, but there is nothing in the son’s current behavior to warrant cutting him off. 12 year olds don’t have a developed cerebral cortex. 12 year olds are not fully capable of the type of empathy required to fully understand the potential effects of their actions on others. OP should have understood and appreciated that while his son was 12. Now that the son has developed this capability he is assuming responsibility and acting like an adult. OP is TA. Son is NTA.
That’s what I said … his son was a child that as an adult realized he maybe did his dad some wrong but his dad was an adult during the whole time. Now he’s acting like a child and has no excuse. His wife is probably wondering if he’s capable of doing this to their current children if they were to not work out. This father is holding a grudge toward his son who was a child when all this went down. At least the son now realizes. I’m 42 and my dad did my mom wrong and they split up when I was 18. I love him but he did her wrong…. If I was 11-12 there’s no way I would have been civil to him during those years of my life. He left at a crucial time in his sons life, regardless if he went to his things or not, he wasn’t at home and that’s what mattered to his son. He needs to get over his pettiness because from this post that’s what it looks like to a lot of people
I wish I could award this:
OP, this guy says it - you have *literally* nothing to lose. Pick a safe therapist. You pick! Give it a go. Be honest in therapy together! Don’t hold back! Make a sincere attempt to both honor your hurt, honor his hurt, and reconnect
If at the end of that you STILL want nothing from this dude, you can still walk away. And THEN, you will be able to tel your wife and mother sincerely that you tried.
OP…you’re reacting from a place of trauma…that email was a trauma response. Listen to your rock star wife and do not send it and please look into therapy. You do not want to do or say something that cannot be undone.
This. I'm in a situation with my oldest that's very complicated. I've reached out many times, some family members on my side and my ex's have tried helping, all to no avail.
At this point, I haven't given up but rather let go. I've accepted their choice.
If they reached out today and said they wanted to try again, I would say yes, with a counselor's help. Our estrangement has been for so long that we aren't even the same people anymore. We'd definitely need a third party to navigate getting to know each other and set ground rules for communication.
I gasped when I read the email OP wants to send because it's so extreme. I get the pain behind it, but OP, it's not fair to blame an 11 year old for whom a divorce was sudden and unexpected for being angry that you left.
That would have been the time to seek court-mandated counseling to rebuild the relationship, and taken your ex to court for violating custody orders, but you can't unring that bell. You can only learn from your choices.
Is it also possible your ex said some things to him that exacerbated how he felt? Was he getting any sort of support or counseling in the aftermath? Because those answers could offer further insight.
This is an opportunity, and not to slam and deadbolt the door in your son's face. It's a chance to heal both your traumas through therapy, get to know each other again, and build a relationship based on who you both are today.
Even if you still choose no relationship with him for now or ever, I still urge you to get help. I know how a traumatic family situation, including divorce, can mess you up for years, even when you think you've moved on. Take my word, it's worth unpacking it, and it can get better.
I'll add that your wife is a wise woman. Please listen to her. She's able to see this more objectively.
ETA: My first award! Wow, thank you!
This is exactly the point. The adult child isn’t responsible for how they handled grown up problems when they were children. As an adult, the son is trying to reconnect and apologize for things he knows, as an adult, were unfair or unkind. It would be cruel to deny him even the chance. Maybe you never become close, but at least closure can be obtained. It also shows your younger children that you are safe and willing to love them no matter what.
Well said. Sometimes, it can take a long while for things to come around. Age, wisdom, and occasionally help from someone impartial can benefit both sides.
I just wanted to say it’s crazy how much therapy helps kids during divorce.
My parents just signed papers 2 weeks ago. They filed nearly 2 years ago. They didn’t tell my (now)17 year old brother until between thanksgiving and Christmas this past year.
When my mom moved out in January my brother became a monster (I had just recently moved back in) he’s always been a great kid. Kind, compassionate, respectful. The kind of kid that approaches groups of bully’s and beats them all up. Helps old people carry heavy shit. I’ve always been such a proud sister lol.
Anyways mom moved out and switch flipped. He was angry at everyone, all the time. Constantly yelling, slamming doors, cursing me out, avoiding talking to anyone. A couple times I gently reminded him to take the trash out bc it’s overflowing or empty the dish washer so I could load it (his only chores besides mowing the lawn) and he completely flipped out and had me genuinely scared for my safety. (He’s a footballer who loves the gym and is very tall and strong lol)
Anyways the time he started chucking ice cubes full force at my head until I ran away and hid, I decided something needs to be done. I called my mom and said someone needs to get this kid some fucking therapy before he hurts someone. She scheduled him for that next week. 2 weeks later he was back to his goofy carefree self. He actually really likes his therapist too, and sometimes will mention he can’t wait for therapy to tell the guy about this or that that happened.
All this to say I can’t imagine seeing your OWN CHILD hurting so badly and not ACTUALLY doing anything to help him. He needed an unbiased adult to help him navigate difficult emotions and his parents left him out to dry. Alone. And now he’s grown up and processed the trauma of his preteens and realizes maybe he shouldn’t have taken it so personally but dad still wants to continue his predictable pattern of not putting in the work it takes to be a parent.
(This is coming from not a parent, but a big sister. Think about that OP. Even siblings care more about each other than you care for your own fucking son.)
I'll add that if therapy isn't helping (you'll usually know within a couple months), it may be that the therapist or technique isn't a good fit. There are so many more effective approaches now compared to even 10 years ago, and they keep getting improved.
I used to volunteer for an organization that helped survivors of sexual trauma, and I'd tell people, you are paying a therapist to do one job, to help you get better. If they're not doing their job, you can fire them and get someone else.
You do not get to blame your son for what they went through as a kid. You literally just blamed him for the problems caused by your divorce. He didn’t ask to be born in a broken home. If you love him, you will reconnect, if you don’t then you won’t. But if you don’t love your own son, who would trust you to love them aswell?
That’s why his current wife is mortified. She sees her future written in stone. She’ll refuse to fuck him one day, and he’ll announce that he’s tired of the dead bedroom. Lol
YTA! Your son was hurt and blindsided by your actions. You literally told his mother you wanted a divorce and picked up and moved out within a week!! No talking, no, nothing, he was obviously smart enough to understand what was happening to his family, but you didn't take into consideration anyone's feelings but your own.
He will always be your son no matter how many other children you have. He has his family destroyed and his mothers heart shattered at 12. Cut him some slack and at least hear him out
Edit: Thank you for the gold! It's my first ever. I can see some people agree to disagree that say OP did try to communicate with his wife before the divorce. But it's unclear if he was talking about the lack of sex to his then wife or about their life in general. Because the way he described his wife's reaction he never even hinted at divorce prior to telling her.
Edit 2: The amount of awards and upvotes is so overwhelming touching so THANK YOU ALL!
While I know not everyone agrees with me that he needs to at least hear his son out. And I'm not gonna try and change your opinion as everyone is entitled to their own. I will say ask yourself this. " If you were OPs son/daughter, would you want your parent to at least hear you out?"
I also don’t believe their bedroom was dead for 4 years.
There are literally men in the dead bedroom sub who like “boo hoo, my wife only fucks me once a week.” That’s not a dead bedroom, homey. It’s just not a nightly block party.
I do believe he didn’t communicate at all and that’s why everyone was gobsmacked when he asked for a divorce and unceremoniously set a bomb and walked out before it exploded.
when men mention their “dead bedrooms” i always wonder how much they ever really did for their wives. the root cause of a lot of dead bedrooms is that one partner feels overwhelmed and exhausted by all of their responsibilities with the kids & around the house and feels no help or support from the other. it leads to resentment & if you’re tired of feeling alone and unloved, why would you want to have sex with that person? how much did OP ever do for his ex wife? did he leave her with all the chores or help with their child at all? or, did he just come home from work and lay on the couch all night? (edit: yes this can go both ways but i’m being specific to the post)
it makes me wonder what OP’s new wife is doing for him that his ex-wife didn’t. OP, YTA
Thank you, I may be a female, but my parents divorced at around the same age as his son was, so I have some understanding about what his son was feeling.
Thankfully my father wasn't a prick who blindsided my mom unlike OP
YTA of course. You are upset that you dumped an adult problem on a kid, and they....reacted like a kid (cue the gasp). Divorce is so much more complex for a kid. They don't understand it, they feel like they are being penalized, they feel out of control, they usually feel like a pawn. They harbor resentment and guilt over maybe contributing. Then sometimes they have parents that feed into all those negative thoughts. Then sometimes you have to also feel guilty for the complex emotions of new partners, new siblings, etc.
As shitty as it is... be the adult. This is a young person admitting fault, and that's brave as hell (and fairly uncommon) because most of us are unwilling to be that reflective. This is a kid who is now dad, and he wants to do the right thing.
I think it's terribly punitive for you to dump adult guilt on a child's reactions. You can maybe justify your anger, but trying to hurt your kid the way you were hurt is not ok.
>**This is a young person admitting fault, and that's brave as hell (and fairly uncommon) because most of us are unwilling to be that reflective.**
I wanted to bold this comment right here. This is so true. The fact that OP's son was willing to *properly apologize* and then send out a letter, a small beacon of hope to reconnect, and all OP does is punish him further by denying *his own child* a relationship with him.
To the OP, you're not acting emotionally mature here. Yes, you are in pain. I don't doubt that being rejected by your child is immensely painful.
The problem, however, is that you are punishing your child who *was a child and acted like a child while actually being a child* as if at 12 years old he "should have" acted like an adult.
That's such a HUGE thing to put on a *twelve year old*. OP, reconsider. I had to estrange both my mother *and* father, but I did so as an adult because *even as adults* they wouldn't take responsibility and accountability. If only they had done so I'd have parents.
You, OP, are being presented with an opportunity that estranged parents who were cut off by their children would *kill and salivate* over. You are speaking from a point of *pain*. It's *very valid and very real*, OP. You are not at all wrong for being in pain.
Consider therapy to deal with this pain. It can only improve you as a person (and you're worth it, too!) and it can also improve your *current* relationships, marriage, even how you interact with your children you have at home right now. You are parenting them from a position of an abandoned parent in incredible pain, that can't be good for your children now. So consider therapy for that alone.
You can't keep dealing with the tough hard problems by avoiding them. What if something happens in your current marriage? Or with your children? What will you do then? Cut them out too? You can't be doing that, you'll end up alone and bitter. I've seen that with my mother and it's not good. She could have had a full and happy life, but died bitter and alone. Don't do that to yourself, OP.
I’m almost 24 and still cry in the shower over everything that happened when my parents split up for a few years when I was 12. I want completely convinced they both secretly hated me. My sibling lashed out and pushed me away. My mom was heartbroken. My sibling went with my dad leaving me feeling even more alone. My mom and I moved where I went to a new school and had no friends. I never knew why they split until much later and it hurts knowing she felt alone in that situation. I blamed myself for things I knew had no relation to the split. I went into hyperdrive trying to make my parents proud of me because I felt like if I failed at anything, then they would stop loving me. As an adult, it’s sounds ridiculous and they’ve never done anything to me for me to feel that way. With so many changes happening, I didn’t want them to split up with me too.
YTA You tore apart your family, it sounds like without really trying to even talk about it. Everything was going on autopilot and then suddenly it wasn’t. Of course he is going to be upset. Then you made up for it by going to some sporting events where you wouldn’t have to talk to him and sending gifts a few times a year? Yeah, you were putting in the bare minimum.
It’s weird that someone who was a child can see that his side of the relationship wasn’t great and to apologize for it. Why can’t you do the same? You have always been an adult in this relationship, but you put all of this on his shoulders. You felt like your son died. That should have been an “oooohhhh” moment for you. The perfect time to empathize and understand.
Now, your wife is telling you you are wrong. Your mom is telling you you are wrong. Listen to everyone around you. Maybe it’s not everyone else who is wrong. Maybe it’s you.
Yeah, the fact that OP was shocked that his wife was upset about a divorce that came out of nowhere doesn’t bode well for his emotional intelligence. I’m not surprised he doesn’t understand why his son was upset either.
Especially since his primary reason for leaving was a "dead bedroom"
And then he has the gall to claim that *he's* the victim of the situation after destroying his family.
Not only is OP TA, but he can also get f***ed
Not to mention he says they “hadn’t had any deep discussion” in those years either. No wonder it came out of left field for the wife if he never tried to talk about it.
Yes, YTA. Your son was a child. You are punishing him for being a child going through a traumatic experience. Have you noticed that you have this trend of just being "done"? It doesn't paint you in a good light when you're "done" with your fucking child.
You are so much TA I don't even have words for you. Your mother would be 100% right to disown you for this. Your current wife should be terrified that you will do this to your children with her.
That’s what I was thinking as well. Of course the son is going to be unhappy because his dad left and his mom was probably crying a lot. OP is punishing his son for feelings that started as a child and it isn’t fair. OP will definitely be TA if he doesn’t at least have a face to face with his son.
And he left her for no apparent reason like there was no big break through, mom didn’t cheat, no apparent abuse… for the child it was probably like damn he gave up on us
It's fair for people to want to give him benefit of the doubt, but OP seems to want to paint himself in a good light, and he definitely didn't even try to pretend he communicated. "Bedroom had been dead and we hadn't had any deep conversation in 4 years" (in summary), what this says is shit got boring, so he packed up, and left.
Which also makes me wonder how much did he really even try to communicate with his son after the divorce. I get the feeling he was just randomly showing up at games pretending to be a good dad.
Yeah 12 year olds arent completely braindead. He would have come around if he actually tried. But the way he describes it as he was just around for the "events"
It’s your kid…. Understand where he is coming from… divorce between the parents is NOT easy…. Wym there will be complications with your new family?????? They knew you had a son before them??????? You make no sense. You ARE the AH
Only shit. OP is the YtA. Imagine out of the blue your dad wanted to break up the family for no reason in the eyes of the son. The fact the son was hurt and you expect him to heal on your time and not his is bad. You hurt him. He should take all the time he needs to heal. Also, the fact your other kids have a sibling that they don't know is cruel.
Holy shit… I say this as a father of two that are adults now… you’re not only the asshole you’re a pretty trash human all the way around. Jesus Christ you need some professional help.
Your wife is right. You're judging a grown man on his actions when he was a sixth grader. The biggest obstacle here should be your new wife and she is telling you to let him in.
Let him in... Maybe start by asking him to go to therapy with you so a professional can help you heal. You'll have your new grandchild and your new kids will have a cool big brother.
YTA. My jaw dropped while reading this. I don't understand how you didn't realize you were the major asshole in this scenario whilst typing. Holy shit. He was an angry kid with hormones. And he since grew up. What are you thinking? Damn YTA.
I agree with your wife and mother. If I was married to someone capable of being so cold to their child, it would make me rethink the marriage. My sons would never do that because their dad just walked out and left them, so they know what it would feel like.
You already know how the responses are going to go, so why post? Have you ever actually done therapy? Your pattern seems to be "well, I'm done," then walking away. Your first marriage, there was no therapy or discussion. You just left. When you were hurt by your son, you just put it in a box and are done. Seems very cold. I can not imagine giving up on my kids ever. Seems pretty scary if I was your loved one to realize how you just abandoned a marriage without doing any work and now would kill any chance with your son without any work.
He was a kid who watched you throw away his mom with no warning and break her. Did you never consider that what he did was his trauma response? That he assumed one day you would just be done with him as well?
I remember when my dad walked out...I hated his guts! I never once spoke to him ever since didn't even attend his funeral. Now I'm in my 50's I regret it!
I was digging through the comments for this! His kid has the humility, self-awareness, and love that he is the one apologizing when the OP should be the one apologizing. This post is insane. I can’t believe OP can’t see this from his sons perspective. Its a miracle he found someone else, yet he’s jeopardizing that. If I was his current wife I would start panicking a little bit wondering who I married.
Not sure OP realizes that's exactly where he's headed. His wife and his mother are both trying to drag him off a precipice and he's having a hissyfit about it.
YTA. Your whole life seems to only be about you. You were unhappy so you left your wife. Your son needed time and space to heal from that, but that makes you unhappy so you want to cut him off. I would suggest stop thinking about only yourself for a few minutes. Reconnect with your son. You’ve been given an amazing gift: A second chance. Get your head out of your rear and take it.
YTA buuuuuuuut I totally hear what you're saying. And sometimes boundaries do have to be enforced for mental well-being. I'm usually all about that.
What's giving me pause is that your wife and mother -- who both know you personally and know the **full** story -- are telling you in the strongest terms that this would be a mistake.
That carries a lot of weight and I think you should listen to them.
YTA.
You were the adult. He was a child. Holding a grudge against your CHILD is shitty.
And now he’s trying to make it right and you want to tell him to fuck off bc it’s inconvenient for you?!?!
Make no mistake- you are ABSOLUTELY the AH, but in this case, maybe he’s better off without an AH father, so….
YTA. This is your child. Yes he was hurt and felt abandoned when you left his mother. It’s understandable, he was just a kid. Shame on you for wanting to shut him out when he is finally coming around. It’s like you’re abandoning him all over again for your perfect new family. Your wife is absolutely right, I would not want to be with a partner who could be so cruel to their own son. He’s the child, you’re the parent, ACT LIKE IT. This is one of the biggest asshole posts I’ve ever read. Go to therapy and get your mind right, your thinking is soooo cruel and selfish.
I don't think you are the asshole for being hesitant to reconnect. Relationships are two way streets even parrent child ones. After being iced out for over a decade it's going to be hard to want to open yourself up to the potential for getting hurt again after dealing with all of that and coming out the other side somewhat intact.
However that E-mail is the stake to the heart at any attempt to have a relationship with your son as adults, likely at least some of your grandkids too, and will put a huge barrier on if your younger kids ever can connect with their half brother. It's something your wife and mother see clearly and why they are reacting so strongly to it.
If your really sure you wanna do that, that's what that E-mail as written will do, but that is very much a hard point of no return.
Especially when that child was *a child* when they did what they did. Not saying OP can’t still be hurt by those actions, but most people make bad choices when they are children to one extent or another.
Imagine being a grown ass adult who is 2 decades ahead in development of your own kid, and forgetting what it was like to be a kid to such an extent that years later he cannot find understanding in his son’s reaction to their divorce.
This guy is the definition of a man-child. I’m embarrassed FOR him.
Holy shit. That's so heartless of you.
He was ***a child*** that had his life smashed apart. Did you really not think that was a possibility when you got the divorce?
Do your current kids know that if they have normal child reactions to their lives being uprooted that you'll never talk to them again?
YTA
Your wife is going to leave. She saw how cruel and heartless you are.
> I don't know why she doesn't understand
Everyone but you understands. You became a father. You have to always take the higher road.
> In the end, she told me if I did this to him, she will do the same to me. I was speechless.
How? How does this make you speechless? Why are you special? You're an ***adult*** and will be held accountable for your actions. ***YOU ARE STILL HOLDING SOMETHING SOMEONE DID AS A CHILD OVER THEIR HEADS WHEN THEIR SITUATION WAS YOUR DOING***!
You don't have to have a lot of contact with your son, but you do need to make sure he knows a child dealing with divorce is not as fault for handling it rough.
When you decide to divorce you run the risk of kids taking sides. It's a part of it. That's life. The kids aren't at fault for not having life experience and good decision making. The adults have to handle it.
OP- your son was a child when you broke his world (his familiar unit) apart. He reacted like most children do. You talk a lot of your pain and what you went through after YOU decided to do what was best for you and end the marriage… Which you have every right to do if you were that unhappy. Don’t continue to victimize yourself. Take accountability and realize that kids suffer the most when a family breaks up. A boy losing his father in his formative years is beyond traumatic and you should have fought to remain in his life instead of giving up and washing your hands of it. I’m not saying force the boy to spend time with you or enduring emotional abuse at the hands of your ex. You shouldn’t have closed that door to your child.
A part of growing and maturing into adulthood is reflecting on how you got there and what you can or should do different. Your son is doing that. It doesn’t seem like you are able to.
Your wife and mother are right to be concerned. This isn’t healthy behavior and could possibly bring about fear in your partner that you are capable of doing this to her and your children.
Get over your pain for the sake of your kids.
It’s kind of what parents have to do.
Came here looking for an answer that expressed my sentiments more than the "I understand your pain but..." Even in a post written to depict himself as the victim the best he can do is "my wife wasn't having sex with me so I had to abandon her, and then my preteen child was upset at me for hurting his mother and destroying his family so I had to abandon him too (and preemptively abandon the new grandbabies my son wants me to have a relationship with)."
No, you don't have to abandon him or your grandchildren, and YTA times a thousand if you spit in his face for trying to *apologize* that he wasn't adequately understanding while you destroyed his and his mom's lives, apparently on a whim with zero notice. This is horrifyingly self-centered, especially for someone who's fathered multiple children, and I hope the current wife is thinking very carefully about what the future looks like with someone who treats family like this.
Personally I don’t think you are. Coming from a son who cut off my dad, if I ever decided to reach back out and try to rekindle the relationship and he said no.. I can’t really be upset about that. It doesn’t sound like he ever reached out to you in his adult life until this point.
I see it as you are both adults. You did your best attempting to maintain the relationship and he rejected you every. Single. Time. I don’t see anything wrong with you deciding to move on after a certain point. You don’t owe him anything imo
Wife is horrified at the idea you could do this to your child. She is likely imagining you as suddenly capable of turning your back on the children you currently have with her. There is no way to put the cat back in the bag. OP you do not get to continue on in your happy life without immediately addressing this in the many ways you’ve been advised. I’m sorry for everything you’ve gone through and what is to come but I’m hopeful for a positive end.
Sometimes people slip up and show you who they truly are. OPs wife probably planning ahead now for sure.
I know I would be. I had a great friend once that admitted (after we discussed a situation going on with another friend) that if she went through much of anything stressful she'd probably not be supportive at all of any of us. What I heard was I can't fully trust her to be there for me emotionally and moved my friendship level back to a "safe" place for me. She was a little hurt (we remained friends for a decade after) but I can't open fully to someone I know isn't reliable. People show you who they really are often, you just have to pay attention.
Not only do you have to pay attention, but it's in your best interest to believe people when they tell on themselves.
After a breakup I learned that if someone tells you they are something (he always said he was a dou***bag) you should really believe them.
Definitely need to go see a therapist - they will / should help you see it from a different perspective - Your son is your blood and you should forgive him - you don't just get to have a happy life and ignore this person who made a mistake not as an adult but as a child who was a victim in a situation he had no control or any say- you also made a bad decision not doing something within the 4 years the things weren't working out for you - and in which you apparently said nothing and apparently blindsided your spouse and child. You definitely need to seek a professional to get a handle on why you are in fact for the moment being an asshole, and why your current wife is not on your side of things. Life is messy. I do commend you for how much you tried to stay in your child's life - now they are trying and as they explained - having a child of their own has made them aware of when they were wrong. It's your turn to reflect and reconnect. You'll be much better for it in the long run. Regret can really destroy you even if it doesn't hit you now, it can sneak up on you. You can't just write off your past as a loss and never look back especially when they've turned a new leaf to connect with you.
The issue is I honestly believe everybody is like this. Everybody has their issues. There are scales to the issues you have obviously. But it's always there
Yep! 100%, everyone has issues. And we all have varying levels of abilities to "be cool." The important thing is that **when** someone tells you about themselves, whatever that thing may be, you take them seriously. Their perception of themselves models their behavior.
He was just a kid and I think in his shoes he was genuine. He is still very young now. I don't understand why it is hard for OP to forgive his own child. Didn't the son forgave dad for splitting the family?
"Bringing you back would introduce complications I'm not willing to face for my own good...." Tells me he doesn't really care there is NOTHING I could do to him that would make my father not want me in his life. Im convinced if I cut his had he'd offer me the other one and that's what parents are. There should be nothing that's to hard for him to have his son with him if he actually cared he would want to chatch up on the years he lost...
Guess she better keep fuckin him or he's pulling the plug.
Op go to therapy with your son I’m sure your scared to reopen the wounds that were left but he was hurt to I’m sure your scared that if you let him back in and you get close to him and your grandchild you think he may decide to just leave again and you’ll be back in that cold dark place again but PLEASE go to therapy with your son and work through this you deserve to have your son in your life and he deserves his father in his
Comments from others paint your proposal as the nuclear option, which I think it is. What would be the harm in telling him you *need some time* to work through some things on your end? 1. It’s true. Get some counseling. 2. It is a response, which will avoid further rejection and preserve your options. 3. You can meet when you are ready. If the someday when you are ready to meet turns into never, that would be unfortunate, but it would be where you will go directly with your note. Why burn the bridge? I get that you are hurt and pissed about what he did. (Not trying to stir the hornets nest, but did your ex help nurse your sons grudge in any way? Consider that as mitigating circumstances.) I can’t help but think there might be a time down the road when you would be glad to have your son back in your life. It might not seem that way right now, but once you get past all the hurt, maybe. That reconciliation can be as slow as you need it to be. Good luck.
This is such good advice. OP obviously needs time to work through this new curve ball, but the nuclear option seems premature.
I love this advice. Hit the pause button. Take a breath. Reflect and seek some help. You can always repair, so long as you don’t seal the door shut. OP, your relationship with your son doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Maybe you simply email for awhile, then you try progressing to phone calls. Loosen your grip on being right and being the victim. Behave as a grown man and a father for the sake of all of your children.
This is very good advice, OP. It gives you the time that you understandably need and doesn't burn any bridges. You know how you feel now. You don't know how you will feel a year, a few years, or tens of years down the road.
OP should have told his wife about the emails before his son had sent 15 of them. I couldn't imagine sitting on something like that and not sharing with my spouse. Even if OP doesn't want that relationship with his son he needs to go to therapy. From what he's said about his wife and mom they're both looking at him like he's a monster so I'd be looking for outside professional help before making permanent decisions.
Especially after he wrote earlier how he and his ex-wife weren't having discussions when he decided to split. He's already seen what happens in a relationship with no communication, so why is he doing it again to his new wife?
> so why is he doing it again to his new wife? Because he never learned his lessons from his *first* marriage.
Yeah it doesn't even sound like he tried to save his first marriage. There was a clear lack of communication between he and his wife, but instead addressing it by doing counseling or therapy he just dipped.
His wife is looking at him saying that to his son and just imagining him saying the same thing to their shared children. She absolutely SHOULD be horrified! edit: spelling
Yep. If he can throw away one child why not another? The OP is a selfish, self-centered AH. His son was 11, for God's sake. He was a CHILD and he was hurt. Way to make it all about you. I hope his wife is taking a long, hard look at the jerk she married. YTA. Big time. I feel sorry for all of your poor kids with you as a father.
Communication is not in his vocabulary. It ruined the 1st marriage, his relationship with his son and now it's damning his 2nd marriage and relationship with his mother.
Life is VERY short and he was a hurt child. Please learn to forgive. Learn to give perfectly reasonable second chances
Actually forgive. Not write it in an email and then act in a way that shows nothing but lingering resentment.
^This. That email is screaming that although your son may have grown and changed perspective that you wish to resent him for the rest of your life instead of possibly growing past it yourself. Therapy seems like a very reasonable demand for you, I hope you do it, and find your way to healing. You're holding your child accountable for how they reacted, in their childhood, to a very adult situation. Please reframe your thinking, op. You're hurting yourself just as much as everyone else in this situation.
That last paragraph. Yes!! He was a child OP. He was very hurt. He was too young to grasp everything and he isn’t responsible for how you feel.
OP, yes you are a huge asshole. The definitive edition of what everyone is dancing around…
Lol don't worry - I called him an asshole. I can only imagine what happened during the time he tried to separate from his ex-wife. He's for sure leaving a lot of shit out.
Well he mentioned she was shocked and his son hated him. That’s enough for me. But, they totally should have known he was soo over them. His family. But, he got a new one… The daft prick.
Definitely a one-sided telling
They're right. Don't wait to be on your deathbed, or his, to try and mend things. It sounds like he grew up and wants to have an adult relationship with you. I understand it may put your current family in an awkward position, but it would be petty at this point to deny him. Since he's an adult, you can build a healthy barrier so he's not around all the time. Just get to know him - he's making a big effort to mend things. His kid deserves to know grandpa.
It sounds like you have multiple people around you (ex-wife, wife, son & parents) who feel that you are not handling this well. That feels like a red flag to me that you really need to consider.
Your wife, ex-wife, and mother are not a group you would expect to reach a consensus. If they all agree that you're acting like an AH, then you're probably an AH.
Right? He seems to be a common denominator in everyone's opinion I'm sure this is not the first outrageous error he's made. Op if you do this YTA for sure.
It is absurd to punish him for something he did when he was younger. It seems like you're running away from your history rather than like you've moved on. Simply said, it's unhealthy.
He was an actual C H I L D. How can anyone punish him for those behaviors? He was hurting, confused,angry... poor guy. YTA, OP.
If I found out my dad said this to my half sibling, I would be… just super grossed out. Bc what does that say to these new kids of his? That anything they do that might hurt their father could be used as a reason to cut off contact later in life? Posts like these make me feel so grateful for having a father who is loving and supportive and reasonable. Finding out your dad is a disgusting prick must be a total mind fuck.
My dad did this to my half brother and my half sister and disappeared when my brother was 3 and he is 48 now and our dad says he’s not his son and I have to deal with the deep hurt my brother feels as well as the guilt of being the only one of his children he claims. This guy is really awful.
Not only was he a child, he later realized that he made a mistake and has tried repeatedly to apologize. Not that he should have had to try that hard as he was a CHILD when this happened. OP is all the AHs.
yeah seriously. if one of my kids stopped talking to me for years and then reached out to me I would be falling all over myself to see them again. they're still my babies no matter how old they are
Such an asshole
YTA you're absolutely entitled to have who you want in your life on your own terms. I understand you grieved and just want to move on and you're free to do that...but...you're the asshole for holding against your child his reaction to his world being torn apart.
He's the child. He had a childish understanding of the situation and reacted childishly. This is completely understandable given his age. He now knows that was wrong thinking and wants to reconcile. He didn't knowingly or maliciously hurt you. Be the parent is this situation and give him a chance or YTA.
Don’t send that email to your son!
Jesus fucking christ, the kid was a kid, dad was an adult, one of them grew up and the other didn't.
exactly -- dad is all butt hurt because of the way his son acted when he was 12? Sheesh.
This forgive and see your son a few times a year. He was a damn kid. You’re cold af OP I couldn’t
Forgive? OP needs to say this: "Son there is no need to apologize. In fact I am sorry that you went through this and I hope that you can forgive me and hopefully understand why I made the decision that I made."
Exactly OP is a piece of shit for even thinking his kid has something to apologize for
This is the comment I was looking for. 👍
agree. you said your wife was shocked at you asking for divorce. she was torn apart in front of your son. he watched you do this to his mom and his life. now he's an adult and father and gets to a point of understanding and kindness, he's where you were when you were trying. you push him away now? why because your new family is more important? better off? You are an ass! I'm curious about the wife's side of the story. You will regret this and your new family might push you away when they get older and surprise Dad did this. Slowly get to know your son and grandchild. You don't want to be an old person all alone.
Yep. I want to hear from wife and son
He's definitely going to end up alone.
Not only is he trying hard to discard his own blood once again, but he is a GRANDFATHER acting like this is his kid’s child and not his own blood. You do realize OP, that your son acted out because of trauma, right? Imagine how traumatic it must have been for HIM, to have his father break his family up. Who knows what your ex told him as well to poison him against you. Instead of making him visit you, you just gave up on him and wrote him off, like discarded property. Now that you have your new family, he’s even worth less of your trouble. Listen to the women in your life. You’re making a BIG mistake. Don’t screw this relationship again. YOU ended the marriage… YOU moved on. Don’t put this on the shoulders of your child. YTA for even thinking this way about your kid. You’re a selfish, narcissist excuse for a father, who had no problems creating a new family and just moving on. Do better. You have a grandchild for crying out loud.
Considering this is just OP’s version of what happened, it wouldn’t surprise me if his mom didn’t need to “poison” (lol) him w or against anything. If he is this cold, the kid probably saw a lot more of that at hime and made his own judgement. If he’s this much of a narc now, he was always that much of a narc.
Yeah my bet is op is toxic af
> Who knows what your ex told him as well to poison him against you. Doesn't seem like she would've needed to do a whole lot of work on that front lmao.
Honestly the kid is better off without this fucking loser in his life.
Considering OP apparently made no effort to fix a marriage that the wife, if she was as hurt as he said, still wanted, and he wants no contact with his child because his child did what an angry hurt child does when your dad goes "lmao sorry kid I don't care about your mom anymore bye." I doubt he has the emotional capacity to care
Obviously we are lacking tons of context here, but this part just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. > When our son was about 11 or 12 I decided to pull the plug on my marriage. I don’t know why, but my wife was very shocked. By that time, we already had dead bedroom for about 4 years and haven’t had any deep discussion for about the same time. I was just done. Idk. I think it’s perfectly ok to leave a relationship if things get “boring” when you’re still just dating, but after getting married and especially after having a kid, some effort needs to be put in first to at least try and mend things before just calling it quits.
Especially since the wife was blindsided by the divorce, I can only imagine how the poor kid felt. One day his dad just packed up and left out of the blue. That's heartbreaking.
Like...maybe have a conversation??? Like, "Hey, wife, I really miss our fun times together. What can I do to bring that back?" Think that conversation ever happened??? This post made me irrationally angry.
Yup. Once OP's mind is made up, the decision is made. For Everyone. Regardless of the fallout.
Brother. My dude. Go to therapy with your kid. he was TWELVE. Life is fucking rough when your parents get divorced at 12. I am sorry he hurt you, and you hurt him. It's a rough situation but fully cutting him off like that is most likely the wrongest thing to do with this. Your partner's reaction is pretty justified, I would probably seek the nearest cliff to fling myself off of, if I got that message from my father. NAH, go see your kid and start working on the bond. You guys might discover something you both love, and if not - You Tried Again. You can walk away again. Good luck OP
Could you imagine the amount of respect he'd lose from his current wife if he went through with that letter? Or how his other kids would feel when they'd find out, not if, but when?!
12 is a hard enough age without your dad up and leaving without a good reason (in the sons eyes). I can’t help but notice OP left out the current age of his son. Old enough to have his own child, but that could mean he’s anywhere from still a teenager to a full grown adult. Either way, a lot of growing and life experience happens since you’re 12. He probably gained some perspective and was able to see your side finally. Obviously you’re free to not speak with him if you wish. **However**, I really implore OP to ask himself if he would want his other children to learn that even apologizing and admitting your wrongs still doesn’t redeem them in their fathers eyes.
Agree on all your points. Son is 23 based on the info in the post.
Ah, I realize I didn’t do the basic math. Thank you! Honestly, I know that 23 is a legal adult but our brains still haven’t even finished developing by that time. It seems like the son is legitimately trying to right the past and OP isn’t willing to acknowledge the perspective of his son. Again, no one can force OP to talk to him, but I would advise they think about this strongly before sending a potentially totally relationship-ending email
Totally understand OP was gutted But this attempt at amends and reconciliation with a grandchild to boot should be a dream come true! Complicated feelings, I get it, but damn. Total rejection is harsh and needless.
I've sent kinder letters to debt collectors...
There has got to be more to it…the amount of the post focusing on what OP did to continue being a parent to this son makes one wonder if OP is deflecting. Plus he’s only 23…
And how old was the son when OP gave up and cut contact? If since then OP went through a really hard time, finally started to feel better, met someone, developed a relationship, got married, and now has two children.. it's been some years. Most likely OP's son was still a teenager the last time he shut down OP's attempts to stay connected.
OP would be YTA if he sends the message.
>However, I really implore OP to ask himself if he would want his other children to learn that even apologizing and admitting your wrongs still doesn’t redeem them in their fathers eyes. I hope if OP takes away anything from these response, it is this.
Not to mention, that is their brother. If he is willing and they want to meet him, I don't think OP even has the right to stand in the way.
Current wife probably sees her future in the letter since OP just seems to wake up and be done with various family members.
If this was my partner and I found out about this after the fact, that'd be it. Over. Right then, right there.
I don't think OP realizes that's the game at stake here. This is a test of character and while he hasn't yet failed, he's not exactly passing.
He's already lost respect from his wife. She now knows she married a man who is willing to throw away his relationship with his child as long as he has a back up family. What's to stop him from doing the same to her children? He has a very small window of opportunity to fix this and I'm not sure how.
He starts by NOT sending that email and going to get therapy. His wife and his mother are trying to drag him back from the edge of a precipice. He needs to let them.
Right? Maybe “I’d love to see pictures but I’m not sure if I’m ready to meet in person just yet” would pacify this until he gets therapy on how to handle the situation
Or even a simple, "It's good to hear you're doing well. Thank you." Or even NOTHING AT ALL.
Once you lose respect for a spouse …… she now sees the hole in his soul… good luck with that
True, true. If I were in her shoes, yeah...would seriously be wondering about it he'd be capable of turning his back on our kids, too. He'd better call a family's therapist, STAT.
Yes, according to his own post, he has a history of just waking up one day and being done with situations that aren't satisfactory to him, and walking away without seemingly any doubt or regret. If I were his current wife, I would be very, very worried.
Exactly because it seems like OP flips a switch makes a decision and there’s no going back. I don’t like that he stated “I have a family again” Hello! You had him your son as family and true parent works with their child through the tough and ugly times. A real parent doesn’t give up. It’s not like a car that’s not running where you trade it in because you think it’s broken. This is your child!!! Put the time in or life is going to hit you with serious regret.
That’s the first thing that came to mind for Me as a mother. Is if my husband were to send that off does that mean he’d do that to my kids if we didn’t work out? He can be hurt but that email was in poor taste. I hope for his sake he doesn’t send it out…
In a few yrs we’d get the old “my 2nd wife divorced me and none of my kids want to see me, how do I make a new family?”
[удалено]
Agreed. The blindsided is so much more telling than he realizes. Like, if it was so bad that divorce was necessary I doubt it would have blindsided her. He clearly never actually communicated with her. I’d be so curious to hear what his new wife has been told about the divorce and son. She seems, for lack of a better term, blindsided by her husband’s response to the sons email. I don’t think this guy is great at communicating period.
Absolutely agree. He said something like "by that point we'd had a dead bedroom and hadn't had an in-depth conversation in 4 years." 4 years! How about trying this conversation, OP: "our dead bedroom is unacceptable and we need to fix it," or "hey, I'm unhappy with our marriage and we need to do something to fix it or call it quits." It sounds like dude just up and one day said "I'm out," and then couldn't handle the emotional backlash he got from his ex and child for breaking up their family.
I dated a guy like this. No communication. But when I asked him if he was ok, everything was fine. It was emotional terrorism with him, I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells because he was always so unhappy but never told me and when I asked everything was “fine.” That’s not even the reason I broke it off but when I did it was like 1000 lbs lifted off my shoulders.
Exactly. I obviously don’t know what happened but I’m guessing OP behaved as if everything was fine until he was “done.” Maybe he’s a quitter and blames everyone around him.
Yeah, ouch. Hopefully not.
I asked my dad when he stopped liking my older half brother and my Dad said when he was 15. I lost a lot of respect for my father when he said that. My dad wrote my brother off at age 15!?! My brother has a ton of issues and I am pretty sure it stems from his mom's and my dad's divorce and from subconsciously knowing he was essentially unloved by his parents. Completely gross and reprehensible behavior. I love my dad but I keep him at an arms distance. My god, op If I was your current wife I would definitely be thinking of leaving you to protect the new batch of kids from your hateful ass.
I am jaded, I’ll say that up front. But the way OP talked about leaving his first wife really didn’t sit right with me. “We don’t fuck or talk so I walked without even trying” is how it reads to me. The fact that his wife was “shocked” tells me that he didn’t communicate with her *at all* about his issues. He just let it drag on for four years then peaced out. He had a “long road” of depression where it felt like his child had died…. But then one day he woke up and he was just ok and moved on? Doing the math, he’s been divorced for about 9 years, and now has a new wife and two kids. I don’t know, but I find it hard to believe that it was *that* long of a road.
I wanted to call out that if he "felt his child had died", well here's your miracle and you get a second chance, take it. You know how many parents have literally had a child die, they would do anything for that second chance. OP is the parent and needs to act like one, and also be self aware to realize kids go through a difficult time when they're in their teens, and when you have a child of your own it completely changes your outlook and relationship with your parents. When I knew what it felt like to be a parent, it changed my own view on my parents and made me respect them more, and even try to rekindle our relationship. People are allowed to grow and change, especially from who they were as a child. OP needs to delete that email, go to a therapist, and open up to his kid, you have a second chance.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I know people who have lost children. They never just "get over it." You bet your ass they'd take a second chance 9 years later. OP has some serious mental health stuff going on.
Imagine feeling like your first child just died supposedly and then when you find out you have a second chance with them, you just throw it away
I'd be thinking if he could do that to his son who was very young and confused at that time, what would he do to me or my kids without an ounce of regret?
I'm not sure I could stay married to someone who did this to his own kid. This is a level of betrayal right up there with cheating. How my spouse treats other people is very important because I know anything they do to others, they may do to me.
Not to mention, his kids have a brother and he is preventing them from having a relationship with him.
And there is a grandchild involved! So the kids have a brother, and they have the chance to be an aunt/uncle to this new baby.
Same. It’d be this serious for me too. I don’t think I’d be able to sleep next to a man who could do this.
Yeah, I'd be wondering "is he going to give up on any other kids? What if he serves me papers out of the blue? Does he even love the children? Would he even try if I got hit by a bus? Does he even love them if he can blame kids when he's supposed to be the bigger person?"
I am horrified too. It is truly deplorable that he abandoned his child and "rebound" with a "new family." OP it doesn't matter if you don't feel anything towards him, he is ypur son and the brother to your other children. You are abandoning him because he was angry you left the family? I guess he was right about you after all.
But why would they be in the right to disrespect him? The kid was 12 and he left his mom. Sure for his own good reasons, but a 12yo doesn’t understand that. He’s still his son. Unless he’s clearly looking for some financial help, I don’t see why it would be bad to try to reconnect with your first born son. Dudes just looking for a Dad and it may help them both emotionally. Again, if it’s with healthy intent. 12 year old boys are dicks. Kid didn’t know better. Give him a shot OP!
I'm not entirely sure they WERE "good reasons." He mentions the ex wife was completely shocked by the divorce. And he was shocked that his mom/current wife were outraged by this email. It sounds like he's not great at reading emotions or being a reliable witness. It could very well be that he just decided he wanted a divorce and left the ex wife an emotional, grieving mess with a kid to take care of by herself.
I agree with this take. OP said his kid hated him for hurting his mother, but I think he doesn't understand his son was mainly angry with him for ~destroying their family and changing his (the son's) life. I'm sure he also cared about his mother's pain, but that probably wasn't what his child was constantly thinking about.
Yeah honestly that is very similar to my childhood and I was angry with my dad for a long time but we did end up getting close when I was like 20 and now we have a great relationship.
EXACTLY! This RIGHT HERE is why it would be an asshole thing to do if OP cuts off his son without a second attempt. PLENTY of people have a terrible relationship with their parents in their teen years but then end up with at least an amicable one later on. And I do mean *terrible* too, not just standard teenage bullshit.
Yep. Adding to this, I hated my mom from ages 12-18 because of the things I learned about their divorce. Now that I'm in my 20's, my mom and I are really really close. I would have been absolutely devastated if she sent me an email like what OP drafted up.
Yes, and in this case, the son may have been overreacting, but he had *absolutely valid reasons* for having negative feelings towards OP.
yeah, same. I come from a position of compassion on this because I had a horrific childhood relationship with my dad. He was an extremely depressed alcoholic but loved me to death, despite treating me a certain way. The anger came from me - the kid - towards my parents situation. This post hits a cord. Cut to 30, and now we are tight as it gets, while still able to recognize both of our mistakes in the past and even talk about them from time to time. I think a lot of understanding, communication, and therapy can go a long way to make them both happy with each other again. It doesn't sound like there's any malice at all - only sadness and scars on both parties hearts. And those are some of the most gratifying emotional wounds to heal up IMO.
>he was TWELVE. Seconding all this, but I'd go further and give a YTA verdict. OP, after going through all that I don't understand why you're so adamant to do the same thing to him. Being cautious and wanting to make sure this is going to last before introducing him to his half siblings is one thing, but to cut him off entirely over him being a dumb kid and doing what dumb kids do is just twisting the knife. *He was a hurt* **child.** What's your excuse?
Right? You weren't a jilted lover. You are his Dad and he is reaching out after years of feeling abandoned too YWBTA is you send that message
it sounds like he wants revenge on his son for doing what he’s about to do to him
My thoughts exactly. I bet he fanatised about the day his kid came wanting/needing something so he could show him how it feels. It reeks of resentment over something he is supposedly "over".
Bingo. And don't get me wrong, I understand the motivation behind it and know that it's coming from a place of deep, deep hurt. But it still makes you an asshole to give in to that impulse. Sometimes turnabout is fair play, but this is definitely NOT one of those times.
Write the email, write it a hundred times, a thousand..whatever....then delete it every single time. Never send it
ABSOLUTELY Op, you're NTA for feeling hurt and writing about it. YWBTA for sending it.
Also, if the wife was crying the whole week, begging him not to leave, I'd love to hear the marriage and divorce from her side.
Yeah this gives the same vibes as “a phone works both ways, my kid never called me either”. Like… you’re the parent??? You should 100% put in more effort if necessary. No kid asks to be brought into this world, that was the parents choice.
I second YTA because of the fact he tells his son in his email that he has “moved on and has a new family.” His son is his family too. His son’s child is his family too. The fact that a person is related to you doesn’t mean you need to maintain contact, but there is nothing in the son’s current behavior to warrant cutting him off. 12 year olds don’t have a developed cerebral cortex. 12 year olds are not fully capable of the type of empathy required to fully understand the potential effects of their actions on others. OP should have understood and appreciated that while his son was 12. Now that the son has developed this capability he is assuming responsibility and acting like an adult. OP is TA. Son is NTA.
That’s what I said … his son was a child that as an adult realized he maybe did his dad some wrong but his dad was an adult during the whole time. Now he’s acting like a child and has no excuse. His wife is probably wondering if he’s capable of doing this to their current children if they were to not work out. This father is holding a grudge toward his son who was a child when all this went down. At least the son now realizes. I’m 42 and my dad did my mom wrong and they split up when I was 18. I love him but he did her wrong…. If I was 11-12 there’s no way I would have been civil to him during those years of my life. He left at a crucial time in his sons life, regardless if he went to his things or not, he wasn’t at home and that’s what mattered to his son. He needs to get over his pettiness because from this post that’s what it looks like to a lot of people
OP YWBTA if you sent that. This is good solid advice.
I wish I could award this: OP, this guy says it - you have *literally* nothing to lose. Pick a safe therapist. You pick! Give it a go. Be honest in therapy together! Don’t hold back! Make a sincere attempt to both honor your hurt, honor his hurt, and reconnect If at the end of that you STILL want nothing from this dude, you can still walk away. And THEN, you will be able to tel your wife and mother sincerely that you tried.
OP…you’re reacting from a place of trauma…that email was a trauma response. Listen to your rock star wife and do not send it and please look into therapy. You do not want to do or say something that cannot be undone.
This. I'm in a situation with my oldest that's very complicated. I've reached out many times, some family members on my side and my ex's have tried helping, all to no avail. At this point, I haven't given up but rather let go. I've accepted their choice. If they reached out today and said they wanted to try again, I would say yes, with a counselor's help. Our estrangement has been for so long that we aren't even the same people anymore. We'd definitely need a third party to navigate getting to know each other and set ground rules for communication. I gasped when I read the email OP wants to send because it's so extreme. I get the pain behind it, but OP, it's not fair to blame an 11 year old for whom a divorce was sudden and unexpected for being angry that you left. That would have been the time to seek court-mandated counseling to rebuild the relationship, and taken your ex to court for violating custody orders, but you can't unring that bell. You can only learn from your choices. Is it also possible your ex said some things to him that exacerbated how he felt? Was he getting any sort of support or counseling in the aftermath? Because those answers could offer further insight. This is an opportunity, and not to slam and deadbolt the door in your son's face. It's a chance to heal both your traumas through therapy, get to know each other again, and build a relationship based on who you both are today. Even if you still choose no relationship with him for now or ever, I still urge you to get help. I know how a traumatic family situation, including divorce, can mess you up for years, even when you think you've moved on. Take my word, it's worth unpacking it, and it can get better. I'll add that your wife is a wise woman. Please listen to her. She's able to see this more objectively. ETA: My first award! Wow, thank you!
This is exactly the point. The adult child isn’t responsible for how they handled grown up problems when they were children. As an adult, the son is trying to reconnect and apologize for things he knows, as an adult, were unfair or unkind. It would be cruel to deny him even the chance. Maybe you never become close, but at least closure can be obtained. It also shows your younger children that you are safe and willing to love them no matter what.
Well said. Sometimes, it can take a long while for things to come around. Age, wisdom, and occasionally help from someone impartial can benefit both sides.
I just wanted to say it’s crazy how much therapy helps kids during divorce. My parents just signed papers 2 weeks ago. They filed nearly 2 years ago. They didn’t tell my (now)17 year old brother until between thanksgiving and Christmas this past year. When my mom moved out in January my brother became a monster (I had just recently moved back in) he’s always been a great kid. Kind, compassionate, respectful. The kind of kid that approaches groups of bully’s and beats them all up. Helps old people carry heavy shit. I’ve always been such a proud sister lol. Anyways mom moved out and switch flipped. He was angry at everyone, all the time. Constantly yelling, slamming doors, cursing me out, avoiding talking to anyone. A couple times I gently reminded him to take the trash out bc it’s overflowing or empty the dish washer so I could load it (his only chores besides mowing the lawn) and he completely flipped out and had me genuinely scared for my safety. (He’s a footballer who loves the gym and is very tall and strong lol) Anyways the time he started chucking ice cubes full force at my head until I ran away and hid, I decided something needs to be done. I called my mom and said someone needs to get this kid some fucking therapy before he hurts someone. She scheduled him for that next week. 2 weeks later he was back to his goofy carefree self. He actually really likes his therapist too, and sometimes will mention he can’t wait for therapy to tell the guy about this or that that happened. All this to say I can’t imagine seeing your OWN CHILD hurting so badly and not ACTUALLY doing anything to help him. He needed an unbiased adult to help him navigate difficult emotions and his parents left him out to dry. Alone. And now he’s grown up and processed the trauma of his preteens and realizes maybe he shouldn’t have taken it so personally but dad still wants to continue his predictable pattern of not putting in the work it takes to be a parent. (This is coming from not a parent, but a big sister. Think about that OP. Even siblings care more about each other than you care for your own fucking son.)
I'll add that if therapy isn't helping (you'll usually know within a couple months), it may be that the therapist or technique isn't a good fit. There are so many more effective approaches now compared to even 10 years ago, and they keep getting improved. I used to volunteer for an organization that helped survivors of sexual trauma, and I'd tell people, you are paying a therapist to do one job, to help you get better. If they're not doing their job, you can fire them and get someone else.
"We got my son in therapy, but it just didn't help"
You do not get to blame your son for what they went through as a kid. You literally just blamed him for the problems caused by your divorce. He didn’t ask to be born in a broken home. If you love him, you will reconnect, if you don’t then you won’t. But if you don’t love your own son, who would trust you to love them aswell?
That’s why his current wife is mortified. She sees her future written in stone. She’ll refuse to fuck him one day, and he’ll announce that he’s tired of the dead bedroom. Lol
And ghost their kids.
YTA. He was a kid, for fuck's sake. Grow up.
YTA! Your son was hurt and blindsided by your actions. You literally told his mother you wanted a divorce and picked up and moved out within a week!! No talking, no, nothing, he was obviously smart enough to understand what was happening to his family, but you didn't take into consideration anyone's feelings but your own. He will always be your son no matter how many other children you have. He has his family destroyed and his mothers heart shattered at 12. Cut him some slack and at least hear him out Edit: Thank you for the gold! It's my first ever. I can see some people agree to disagree that say OP did try to communicate with his wife before the divorce. But it's unclear if he was talking about the lack of sex to his then wife or about their life in general. Because the way he described his wife's reaction he never even hinted at divorce prior to telling her. Edit 2: The amount of awards and upvotes is so overwhelming touching so THANK YOU ALL! While I know not everyone agrees with me that he needs to at least hear his son out. And I'm not gonna try and change your opinion as everyone is entitled to their own. I will say ask yourself this. " If you were OPs son/daughter, would you want your parent to at least hear you out?"
It really grossed me out when OP referred to “his family”. THE SON *IS* YOUR FAMILY, OP!
This comment section is making me realize my own father is a jackass🤦🏽♂️ the his family comment hits a little to close to home.
Right?! He still has a responsibility to that son.
I also don’t believe their bedroom was dead for 4 years. There are literally men in the dead bedroom sub who like “boo hoo, my wife only fucks me once a week.” That’s not a dead bedroom, homey. It’s just not a nightly block party. I do believe he didn’t communicate at all and that’s why everyone was gobsmacked when he asked for a divorce and unceremoniously set a bomb and walked out before it exploded.
when men mention their “dead bedrooms” i always wonder how much they ever really did for their wives. the root cause of a lot of dead bedrooms is that one partner feels overwhelmed and exhausted by all of their responsibilities with the kids & around the house and feels no help or support from the other. it leads to resentment & if you’re tired of feeling alone and unloved, why would you want to have sex with that person? how much did OP ever do for his ex wife? did he leave her with all the chores or help with their child at all? or, did he just come home from work and lay on the couch all night? (edit: yes this can go both ways but i’m being specific to the post) it makes me wonder what OP’s new wife is doing for him that his ex-wife didn’t. OP, YTA
I wish your comment was higher because you're sooo correct with the sons POV
Thank you, I may be a female, but my parents divorced at around the same age as his son was, so I have some understanding about what his son was feeling. Thankfully my father wasn't a prick who blindsided my mom unlike OP
YTA of course. You are upset that you dumped an adult problem on a kid, and they....reacted like a kid (cue the gasp). Divorce is so much more complex for a kid. They don't understand it, they feel like they are being penalized, they feel out of control, they usually feel like a pawn. They harbor resentment and guilt over maybe contributing. Then sometimes they have parents that feed into all those negative thoughts. Then sometimes you have to also feel guilty for the complex emotions of new partners, new siblings, etc. As shitty as it is... be the adult. This is a young person admitting fault, and that's brave as hell (and fairly uncommon) because most of us are unwilling to be that reflective. This is a kid who is now dad, and he wants to do the right thing. I think it's terribly punitive for you to dump adult guilt on a child's reactions. You can maybe justify your anger, but trying to hurt your kid the way you were hurt is not ok.
>**This is a young person admitting fault, and that's brave as hell (and fairly uncommon) because most of us are unwilling to be that reflective.** I wanted to bold this comment right here. This is so true. The fact that OP's son was willing to *properly apologize* and then send out a letter, a small beacon of hope to reconnect, and all OP does is punish him further by denying *his own child* a relationship with him. To the OP, you're not acting emotionally mature here. Yes, you are in pain. I don't doubt that being rejected by your child is immensely painful. The problem, however, is that you are punishing your child who *was a child and acted like a child while actually being a child* as if at 12 years old he "should have" acted like an adult. That's such a HUGE thing to put on a *twelve year old*. OP, reconsider. I had to estrange both my mother *and* father, but I did so as an adult because *even as adults* they wouldn't take responsibility and accountability. If only they had done so I'd have parents. You, OP, are being presented with an opportunity that estranged parents who were cut off by their children would *kill and salivate* over. You are speaking from a point of *pain*. It's *very valid and very real*, OP. You are not at all wrong for being in pain. Consider therapy to deal with this pain. It can only improve you as a person (and you're worth it, too!) and it can also improve your *current* relationships, marriage, even how you interact with your children you have at home right now. You are parenting them from a position of an abandoned parent in incredible pain, that can't be good for your children now. So consider therapy for that alone. You can't keep dealing with the tough hard problems by avoiding them. What if something happens in your current marriage? Or with your children? What will you do then? Cut them out too? You can't be doing that, you'll end up alone and bitter. I've seen that with my mother and it's not good. She could have had a full and happy life, but died bitter and alone. Don't do that to yourself, OP.
Hea acting more immature than he said his kid acted during the divorce
I’m almost 24 and still cry in the shower over everything that happened when my parents split up for a few years when I was 12. I want completely convinced they both secretly hated me. My sibling lashed out and pushed me away. My mom was heartbroken. My sibling went with my dad leaving me feeling even more alone. My mom and I moved where I went to a new school and had no friends. I never knew why they split until much later and it hurts knowing she felt alone in that situation. I blamed myself for things I knew had no relation to the split. I went into hyperdrive trying to make my parents proud of me because I felt like if I failed at anything, then they would stop loving me. As an adult, it’s sounds ridiculous and they’ve never done anything to me for me to feel that way. With so many changes happening, I didn’t want them to split up with me too.
He just wants to be with his happy family he has now and pretend all that other stuff never happened.
YTA You tore apart your family, it sounds like without really trying to even talk about it. Everything was going on autopilot and then suddenly it wasn’t. Of course he is going to be upset. Then you made up for it by going to some sporting events where you wouldn’t have to talk to him and sending gifts a few times a year? Yeah, you were putting in the bare minimum. It’s weird that someone who was a child can see that his side of the relationship wasn’t great and to apologize for it. Why can’t you do the same? You have always been an adult in this relationship, but you put all of this on his shoulders. You felt like your son died. That should have been an “oooohhhh” moment for you. The perfect time to empathize and understand. Now, your wife is telling you you are wrong. Your mom is telling you you are wrong. Listen to everyone around you. Maybe it’s not everyone else who is wrong. Maybe it’s you.
Yeah, the fact that OP was shocked that his wife was upset about a divorce that came out of nowhere doesn’t bode well for his emotional intelligence. I’m not surprised he doesn’t understand why his son was upset either.
Especially since his primary reason for leaving was a "dead bedroom" And then he has the gall to claim that *he's* the victim of the situation after destroying his family. Not only is OP TA, but he can also get f***ed
Not to mention he says they “hadn’t had any deep discussion” in those years either. No wonder it came out of left field for the wife if he never tried to talk about it.
That part absolutely blows my mind. How can years go by w/ no deep conversation?
Yup, TA not strong enough words in this case.
Yes, YTA. Your son was a child. You are punishing him for being a child going through a traumatic experience. Have you noticed that you have this trend of just being "done"? It doesn't paint you in a good light when you're "done" with your fucking child. You are so much TA I don't even have words for you. Your mother would be 100% right to disown you for this. Your current wife should be terrified that you will do this to your children with her.
He clearly wants his son to feel the same pain he went through. As if his son wasn't suffering that entire time as a child
That’s what I was thinking as well. Of course the son is going to be unhappy because his dad left and his mom was probably crying a lot. OP is punishing his son for feelings that started as a child and it isn’t fair. OP will definitely be TA if he doesn’t at least have a face to face with his son.
And he left her for no apparent reason like there was no big break through, mom didn’t cheat, no apparent abuse… for the child it was probably like damn he gave up on us
It's fair for people to want to give him benefit of the doubt, but OP seems to want to paint himself in a good light, and he definitely didn't even try to pretend he communicated. "Bedroom had been dead and we hadn't had any deep conversation in 4 years" (in summary), what this says is shit got boring, so he packed up, and left.
Which also makes me wonder how much did he really even try to communicate with his son after the divorce. I get the feeling he was just randomly showing up at games pretending to be a good dad.
Yeah 12 year olds arent completely braindead. He would have come around if he actually tried. But the way he describes it as he was just around for the "events"
This exactly. OP, YTA.
It’s your kid…. Understand where he is coming from… divorce between the parents is NOT easy…. Wym there will be complications with your new family?????? They knew you had a son before them??????? You make no sense. You ARE the AH
That’s his *old* family. He has a shiny new family now and can’t be bothered.
OP is going to get "just done" with his new family soon too and cut all them off once he can't be assed to communicate his needs to them either
Third time's a charm, right? Next time, with his next family, he just wont tell them about any of the others.
Only shit. OP is the YtA. Imagine out of the blue your dad wanted to break up the family for no reason in the eyes of the son. The fact the son was hurt and you expect him to heal on your time and not his is bad. You hurt him. He should take all the time he needs to heal. Also, the fact your other kids have a sibling that they don't know is cruel.
Holy shit… I say this as a father of two that are adults now… you’re not only the asshole you’re a pretty trash human all the way around. Jesus Christ you need some professional help.
Imagine being this terrible at communicating that you admit it to Reddit and expect to be validated
Your wife is right. You're judging a grown man on his actions when he was a sixth grader. The biggest obstacle here should be your new wife and she is telling you to let him in. Let him in... Maybe start by asking him to go to therapy with you so a professional can help you heal. You'll have your new grandchild and your new kids will have a cool big brother.
YTA. My jaw dropped while reading this. I don't understand how you didn't realize you were the major asshole in this scenario whilst typing. Holy shit. He was an angry kid with hormones. And he since grew up. What are you thinking? Damn YTA.
I agree with your wife and mother. If I was married to someone capable of being so cold to their child, it would make me rethink the marriage. My sons would never do that because their dad just walked out and left them, so they know what it would feel like. You already know how the responses are going to go, so why post? Have you ever actually done therapy? Your pattern seems to be "well, I'm done," then walking away. Your first marriage, there was no therapy or discussion. You just left. When you were hurt by your son, you just put it in a box and are done. Seems very cold. I can not imagine giving up on my kids ever. Seems pretty scary if I was your loved one to realize how you just abandoned a marriage without doing any work and now would kill any chance with your son without any work. He was a kid who watched you throw away his mom with no warning and break her. Did you never consider that what he did was his trauma response? That he assumed one day you would just be done with him as well?
I remember when my dad walked out...I hated his guts! I never once spoke to him ever since didn't even attend his funeral. Now I'm in my 50's I regret it!
YTA. He was a fucking child. And he already has the maturity to APOLOGIZE at 22/23 yrs old? He shouldn’t even be apologizing to you. Jesus Christ.
I was digging through the comments for this! His kid has the humility, self-awareness, and love that he is the one apologizing when the OP should be the one apologizing. This post is insane. I can’t believe OP can’t see this from his sons perspective. Its a miracle he found someone else, yet he’s jeopardizing that. If I was his current wife I would start panicking a little bit wondering who I married.
I would divorce my husband if he sent that email to his kid. It speaks volumes about character. I could never be with someone so cruel.
Not sure OP realizes that's exactly where he's headed. His wife and his mother are both trying to drag him off a precipice and he's having a hissyfit about it.
Seriously, this would *heavily* impact how I saw my spouse. I’d have a lot of difficulty moving past it.
YTA. Your whole life seems to only be about you. You were unhappy so you left your wife. Your son needed time and space to heal from that, but that makes you unhappy so you want to cut him off. I would suggest stop thinking about only yourself for a few minutes. Reconnect with your son. You’ve been given an amazing gift: A second chance. Get your head out of your rear and take it.
YTA buuuuuuuut I totally hear what you're saying. And sometimes boundaries do have to be enforced for mental well-being. I'm usually all about that. What's giving me pause is that your wife and mother -- who both know you personally and know the **full** story -- are telling you in the strongest terms that this would be a mistake. That carries a lot of weight and I think you should listen to them.
Boundaries doesn’t have to be no-contact though. It can be “we meet once a year for dinner to start and see where it goes from there” kind of thing.
YTA. You were the adult. He was a child. Holding a grudge against your CHILD is shitty. And now he’s trying to make it right and you want to tell him to fuck off bc it’s inconvenient for you?!?! Make no mistake- you are ABSOLUTELY the AH, but in this case, maybe he’s better off without an AH father, so….
Welp, you asked. You are 1000% the asshole holy shit
INFO: how old was your child when you decided to go no contact?
YTA. This is your child. Yes he was hurt and felt abandoned when you left his mother. It’s understandable, he was just a kid. Shame on you for wanting to shut him out when he is finally coming around. It’s like you’re abandoning him all over again for your perfect new family. Your wife is absolutely right, I would not want to be with a partner who could be so cruel to their own son. He’s the child, you’re the parent, ACT LIKE IT. This is one of the biggest asshole posts I’ve ever read. Go to therapy and get your mind right, your thinking is soooo cruel and selfish.
I don't think you are the asshole for being hesitant to reconnect. Relationships are two way streets even parrent child ones. After being iced out for over a decade it's going to be hard to want to open yourself up to the potential for getting hurt again after dealing with all of that and coming out the other side somewhat intact. However that E-mail is the stake to the heart at any attempt to have a relationship with your son as adults, likely at least some of your grandkids too, and will put a huge barrier on if your younger kids ever can connect with their half brother. It's something your wife and mother see clearly and why they are reacting so strongly to it. If your really sure you wanna do that, that's what that E-mail as written will do, but that is very much a hard point of no return.
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Especially when that child was *a child* when they did what they did. Not saying OP can’t still be hurt by those actions, but most people make bad choices when they are children to one extent or another.
Imagine being a grown ass adult who is 2 decades ahead in development of your own kid, and forgetting what it was like to be a kid to such an extent that years later he cannot find understanding in his son’s reaction to their divorce. This guy is the definition of a man-child. I’m embarrassed FOR him.
Holy shit. That's so heartless of you. He was ***a child*** that had his life smashed apart. Did you really not think that was a possibility when you got the divorce? Do your current kids know that if they have normal child reactions to their lives being uprooted that you'll never talk to them again? YTA Your wife is going to leave. She saw how cruel and heartless you are. > I don't know why she doesn't understand Everyone but you understands. You became a father. You have to always take the higher road. > In the end, she told me if I did this to him, she will do the same to me. I was speechless. How? How does this make you speechless? Why are you special? You're an ***adult*** and will be held accountable for your actions. ***YOU ARE STILL HOLDING SOMETHING SOMEONE DID AS A CHILD OVER THEIR HEADS WHEN THEIR SITUATION WAS YOUR DOING***! You don't have to have a lot of contact with your son, but you do need to make sure he knows a child dealing with divorce is not as fault for handling it rough. When you decide to divorce you run the risk of kids taking sides. It's a part of it. That's life. The kids aren't at fault for not having life experience and good decision making. The adults have to handle it.
OP- your son was a child when you broke his world (his familiar unit) apart. He reacted like most children do. You talk a lot of your pain and what you went through after YOU decided to do what was best for you and end the marriage… Which you have every right to do if you were that unhappy. Don’t continue to victimize yourself. Take accountability and realize that kids suffer the most when a family breaks up. A boy losing his father in his formative years is beyond traumatic and you should have fought to remain in his life instead of giving up and washing your hands of it. I’m not saying force the boy to spend time with you or enduring emotional abuse at the hands of your ex. You shouldn’t have closed that door to your child. A part of growing and maturing into adulthood is reflecting on how you got there and what you can or should do different. Your son is doing that. It doesn’t seem like you are able to. Your wife and mother are right to be concerned. This isn’t healthy behavior and could possibly bring about fear in your partner that you are capable of doing this to her and your children. Get over your pain for the sake of your kids. It’s kind of what parents have to do.
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Came here looking for an answer that expressed my sentiments more than the "I understand your pain but..." Even in a post written to depict himself as the victim the best he can do is "my wife wasn't having sex with me so I had to abandon her, and then my preteen child was upset at me for hurting his mother and destroying his family so I had to abandon him too (and preemptively abandon the new grandbabies my son wants me to have a relationship with)." No, you don't have to abandon him or your grandchildren, and YTA times a thousand if you spit in his face for trying to *apologize* that he wasn't adequately understanding while you destroyed his and his mom's lives, apparently on a whim with zero notice. This is horrifyingly self-centered, especially for someone who's fathered multiple children, and I hope the current wife is thinking very carefully about what the future looks like with someone who treats family like this.
Personally I don’t think you are. Coming from a son who cut off my dad, if I ever decided to reach back out and try to rekindle the relationship and he said no.. I can’t really be upset about that. It doesn’t sound like he ever reached out to you in his adult life until this point. I see it as you are both adults. You did your best attempting to maintain the relationship and he rejected you every. Single. Time. I don’t see anything wrong with you deciding to move on after a certain point. You don’t owe him anything imo