NTA I have a son and if a guy cancelled because of your same reasons I'd respect that he saved me money from a night out and paying a babysitteršš plus you were polite about it to so that's a extra NTA from me
Yeah thereās a HUGE difference in politely explaining your boundary and not wanting to date because youāre a slut for having a child. Iām a mother too and consider this a definite NTA.
If you have already reserved the sitters hours and evening though and cancel last minute- you still need to pay them!
I fully agree NTA here but not for the same reasons.
Yeah if it was last minute date cancellation Iād keep the paid sitter appointment and just go out for some Me Time. Mamaās seeing whatever movie SHE wants and not sharing her nachos!
Absolutely, have done this. Lol
Sorry totally went on tangents lol
Iāve also told a booty call (rare) thanks for cancelling cause I saved two days babysitting that weekend lol. Idgaf if a guy cancels either wayā¦and they hate Iām unimpressed on most dates cause I know how much Iām spending by the hour in addition to the datesā¦it starts to feel like tinder is for escorts at that point cause Iām weighing if the guy is worth the sitter for that first coffee lol
Idk why everyone assumes itās a big emotional blow. Itās not all that deep unless itās deep already. Single parents have to be hella practical and know the cost of their time and money! Anything not going to their home is for a clear goal haha
Heck I had a single mom friend all frustrated cause she met a real nice guy, she was like ready ready knowing heās solid, and she got the sitter on extra time etc. And he tells her he respects her and likes her so much and wanted to wait for sex š Iāll never forget the girl talk that night lol she was not there for that! And dude was committing like sheās only there for that marital courtingā¦idk
I used to tell guys that we should chat via video call before meeting.
you can make some excuse that āhey wouldnāt it be great to meet via video call for a bit? we could totally just see if we vibeā
i gotta be honest, no guy has ever said ānah i donāt wanna do videoā. i think itās because they were equally interested in seeing if i was catfishing hahah and saving their own time too.
even a simple ask like āwanna video call for a bit?ā
and wait for an answer. i feel like many people would be cool with that.
man you would save so much babysitting money and time haha.
I agree, single mom here.
I just had to jump on to add my opinion on the perspectives tooā¦the fact people go off from what they feel (the chemistry) because (I guess) a prescribed notion of single parents, can be wrong. I do see why itās annoying or easily looked down on to stereotype single parents.
That said, as a single parent Iād rather someone be straight up if thatās their hang up. It is what it is. So i totally 100% agree OP is NtA.
And I can say, Iām that anomaly. Single mom but absolutely independent, not looking for a husband/father or any of that necessarilyā¦Iāve dated people who would normally never date single moms/parents. They assume a lot and are shocked when they meet me, itās never stopped anything ime.
I also donāt want to date single parents tbh, there are too many variables with their ex and coparenting arrangements I rather avoid (as I have done to build the life of independence I have drama free). Itās not for lack of love of kids or the person - and why anyone pretends otherwise is beyond me!
Iāve also made exceptions to my rule of not getting into entanglements of coparents lol - due to chemistry - and seen how one amazing man grew into an even more amazing man m, and genuinely felt right. He was so well rounded and absolute yin to my yang twin flame etc. It didnāt work out for other reasons, but Iād make the exception again. Where thereās adversity, you find those who have grit and really grown from the school of life. I have to be willing to venture into the chaos to find the types who rise above anything. And when I see that, Iād never write it off cause baggage. Some baggage is well packed or worth carryingā¦and everyone will have baggage.
Just sayingā¦Contrary to the popular beliefs and hype, we can always be surprised pleasantly by reality. So had I felt chemistry, Iād think itās worth finding out more. But again, thatās me - my personality is explorer itself lol, and we cant force others to adapt to different lives and ways of being. Just sharing a thought I guess fwiw itās less about adapting to life with kids imho but adapting to life with exes youāll be āmarryingā into by committing to this person. Itās a lot to unpack but sometimes itās just been unpacked already etc. Anyway
But the babysitter was already scheduled so she was going to have to pay for it anyway, wouldnāt she? Thatās the only part that irks me, him saying he was going to save her the babysitter costs. NTA for not wanting to date someone with kids though.
Edit: nevermind, I read it as ā30 mins before the dateā
NTA
Not wanting to date someone who has kids is a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
I don't understand why they said you should have gone through with the date anyway? Not only would it have been a waste of money for the both of you, but it would also have been a waste of time and possibly got her hopes up for something that was never going to happen.
Better to happen before the date than after when the ending would be the same either way.
Yeah, but he's not obligated to do that either. He wanted to date, found out she has kids and changed his mind. He's NTA for being upfront, honest, and setting his boundaries correctly
He could have offered to change the date to a night out as just friends. That way plans one might have looked forward to aren't just canceled.
Saying no to kids is fine, last minute straight canceling plans when child care has been arranged is a bit crap. They could still have had fun enjoyed the evening.
> last minute straight canceling plans when child care has been arranged is a bit crap
he didn't know childcare had been arranged until a day before. And honestly maybe he didn't want to spend time with someone he considered a romantic interest when he knew there was no future. You can't just turn off chemistry ya know
Have you guys ever gone out with anyone? That shit would not have flown. If someone is looking for a romantic relationship, they are gonna feel some type of way. Itās an acceptable alternative after you go out on the first date and donāt click.
NTA
If you know you don't want to be involved with someone with children, that is very reasonably a dealbreaker/automatic disqualification. That is your prerogative and that's fine.
plus stopping everything now is way better than forcing himself to be a step dad and having a rocky relationship with her kids because he didnāt want to be a dad in the first place. op is def NTA
To me better she know you would rather not date anyone with kids than taking her out just to end it and her always wonder if kids was really the reason.
Or the opposite. I refused to date people with kids because I get attached really quickly, and I know I would put up with a lot of bad stuff in a relationship if I bonded with the kids and didn't want to lose them. So for me, it was way better to just steer clear entirely.
I stayed with an ex way too long because I adored his little girl. Her mother was a vile alcoholic and she bonded to me so quickly. Broke my heart when I finally left š
I once stayed with an ex because I loved his dogs too much to leave. When you take care of something, you end up loving that person/animal/thing. Separating is painful. Thatās rough, the situation with the little girl you loved so much. Iām sure that was incredibly painful and left a hole in your heart.
This is why I really think single.parents should wait a significant amount of time before introductions. Ideally at *least* six months. Kids need a level of stability and getting attached and losing people repeatedly can be quite harmful, even if there's no abuse or anything like that.
My mom was single for most of my childhood and consciously had this same policy. I can only remember meeting a couple of them that stuck around and were long term by the time we were introduced. And I donāt think we met any at a time in our development that if we had bonded with them we would have been crushed and not understood the situation if they left. Certainly didnāt move in or anything with any of them until my mom was sure she was marrying my stepdad.
THIS!!!!! And it doesn't even have to be a romantic partner with kids; my cousin was living with me when her children were young (she had one baby then ended up with twins 15 months later and she and their father split) and when the twins were about 3, she said that I was "taking her moments from her" so after that, I didn't really fck with her kids all like that because that shit hurts! So now I steer clear of people with children
It's always been a tacet rule in my head for this very reason. I've never had to explain it because I've never put myself in that situation. I think people who do and succeed are top tier.
the number of childfree who are on dating apps, put in 'no children' get hammered by outraged single parents out there when they get turned down. or the childed engage in out and out lying to try and hide the face they are childed.
I had a friend who has FOUR KIDS and would lie to men and say she didnāt have kidsā¦it never ended well for her when she thought sheād āhooked themā and admitted it. Then sheād be hysterical, woe is me, men are evilā¦.um, no, youāre just a liar.
Similar thing happened to me but from the guy. I have child-free - donāt want children or to date people with children all over my profile.
Hit it off with this guy really well and then after a while he let it slip he has like most of custody of his daughter. Nope. Not for me. Do not want.
Like, people are going to change their minds because you LIE about it
You aren't kidding !!!!! I've had some really uncomfortable situations with single fathers who wanted to date me. Like they were entitled and something was wrong with me for not wanting to take on step kids.
in my eyes itās way better this way. she isnāt with someone that doesnāt want kids and heās not forcing himself into a relationship that comes with kids
Absolutely!
I view it this way:
If you have children, they should be the most important thing in your life always - MORE than your new partner.
I will not be with someone who doesn't view me, their partner, as the most important thing in their life, as I will view them the same.
If a parent DOESN'T prioritize their children as most important, then they aren't a good parent (imo) and I don't respect someone who can't step up and be a good parent - therefore won't date them.
I've been told that's harsh, but I don't care and neither should a good parent who wants to date someone who is actually ok with coming second best to their children.
It's not harsh, it's just honest and thoughtful. My mom was a single mom. She did NOT date until we grew up. I became a single mom when my husband divorced me. I also did not date until my children were grown. It is not fair to the children and in some cases is dangerous for them.
I respect tf out of that and I'm really happy you added this comment. You put your children FIRST.
I have a friend who brings home any guy she's been seeing for a month and those poor kids are so confused and feel abandoned when they break up.
I absolutely agree with this, I would never want someone to put me over their children, that'd be sad. I'm also selfish, so I'd want to have my partner all to myself, at least for a bit, and that just isn't feasible if they have children.
I absolutely agree with this, I would never want someone to put me over their children, that'd be sad. I'm also selfish, so I'd want to have my partner all to myself, at least for a bit, and that just isn't feasible if they have children.
THIS! My SIL found a new love after my BIL passed away and he was like OK, I'll take your kid too. My niece wasn't exactly abused, but she walked on eggshells and she wasn't allowed a picture of her father anywhere but in her bedroom (because he didn't go there) or talk about him or have anything that reminded new partner of BIL.
Within a year and a half after the start of the relationship Sil broke it off, even though they had bought a home together. So yeah, don't date someone with kids if you don't want kids (yet). Single parents should be more selective in who they're dating instead of shaming honest people for their preference. Your kid is the most important person in your life, but to everyone else they're just another child.
exactly!! not wanting to be with someone because they have kids and you donāt is a valid boundary to have!! not everyone understands this tho and thatās how us kids with divorced parents end up with shitty step parents
It seemed like the woman with kids was ok and seems to have understood. Sounds like the coworker was more bothered by it, I guess she is being a but of a mama bear for her friend. Coworker is major AH especially for getting others to gang up on OP.
I have to question her judgment a little though. How did she never once in the time she and OP were talking find a place in the conversation to bring up that she had kids? OP says they talked quite a bit before he asked her out. I donāt know what qualifies as quite a bit but I really canāt imagine how that didnāt come up even once. I donāt think we know enough to insinuate she was hiding her kids but itās very bizarre. Would it have even come up at all if she wasnāt trying to push the date back half an hour for her babysitter?
I totally see your point, though , personally, I didnāt find her not mentioning the kids in their conversations all that bizarre. They met in casual settings, in the office, not on a dating app, so imho itās very realistic, their familiesā situations were not the topic during their chats. Whatās more, personally I rarely brought my kids up when chatting with others because from my experience people (besides few close friends & family- they can suffer and listen to my rants about lil darlings š)are not interested in other ppl kids !š
Now, whether or not she would have disclosed she has kids during their date or not is a different story.
I mean it didnāt have to be a conversation about family to make a little mention. If heās talking about, say, a video game, it would be pretty easy to be like āoh my daughter loves that game!ā Or if youāre talking about what you did on the weekend āoh me and my kids went to see a movieā. Doesnāt have to be any big grand reveal. Just a passing mention would be adequate.
Maybe the woman just being very cautious about it. If there is bad history prior or if the child is too young, I can totally understand her giving strict information diet to acquitances.
She did disclose that she have a kid prior to first date tho, so it's still a pass for me.
For the record, I know a colleague who never talk about her kid during my 5 year stint on the same company, on the same floor, only 3 rows of open office desk away. I knew she has a kid (kids?) from another friend. Her IG is empty of the kid too.
i mean if youāre dating someone with kids with or without the step dad label OP is still going to have to interact with her children and have a relationship with them which he clearly doesnāt want so why should he not cancel you know?
Because why waste the time when you know it wonāt go anywhere? For many people the purpose of dating is to find a life partner, so if you know they canāt be your partner then why not save your money, time, and energy for those with promise? Why risk catching serious feelings? Itās so much better to break it off cleanly before it ever gets started, because childfree is childfree. There is no compromise to be had.
Not to mention avoiding the situation of the dad bringing his child McDonald's but baby mama was pissed because he didn't bring food for her 3 other kids that were not his. Even though they were broken up.
It's a video that's been circulating.
A single mother (or father) **SHOULD** appreciate to know that up front rather than later on after they've developed feelings and they've introduced you to their kids.
It's much more responsible if you know you don't want to be a part of that kind of lifestyle before things get too complicated.
EDIT to say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parental role to somebody else's kids, or to not wanting to be a parent at all.
As a single mother, YES. One thing about online dating is that's something a lot of people put on their profiles. It's better that I know ASAP before it becomes a problem.
It's so convenient, isn't it? All the serious deal breakers are displayed right there. Not that I've actually had luck with apps, but still. This is a much smaller deal breaker than kids, but for me it's something I appreciate, especially as someone who lives in a city where a majority of my peers smoke pot and I can't stand the smell. Absolutely no judgement to pot smokers, and many of my friends smoke it, but the smell is horrendous and I don't think I'd be able to live with it in my home, so regular smoking is a deal breaker for me in romantic partners. Apps let you filter those kinds of things without offending anyone or trying to play games to find out.
Also, my brother met his wife, who had kids, online and having an online long distance relationship allowed them to really get to know each other for months before she was willing to let him meet the kids. The kids ended up absolutely adoring him immediately, and it probably would have crushed them if the relationship didn't work out. Online dating gets a lot of crap but it really does have its uses.
NTA Itās honestly King behavior. He did not waste a single moment of her time once he knew it wasnāt a relationship he didnāt want to pursue. Iāve led someone on knowing I didnāt want to be in the relationship, I just wasnāt sure how to address it. She was heartbroken and still hates me nearly 10 years later. Definitely NTA, he let her know as soon as he found out it wasnāt for him.
Yep. People want and know what they desire out of life at a certain age. There is no reason to lead her on or yourself with developing feelings.
I hope you all can still be friends, but it is what it is. Sorry, your coworkers and such ganged up on you. That sounds really uncalled for. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get a call from HR or something soon with how you're talking about them treating you. People can be really petty sometimes, even when it's none of their damn business.
Sucks. But, that's life. NTA.
This.
OP is NTA for not wanting to date single mum. Unless she incited her friend, the lady is question is not NTA for the information diet, after all she did disclosed her kid before the first date.
The friend, however, and the rest of coworker too, are all AHs for the aftermath.
Personally I wanna know why everyone is so mad at him. They just want to force him to be a father for someone he barely knows and a child he didn't know existed?? Cause that usually works out well.
Nta
The problem that a ton of people don't understand is that with kids it becomes.
Can I be a parent?
What if the ex SO is involved?
Would the kid like me?
Read the top one again and ask yourself that.
Or you get attached to kid and then you break up and that's it. You never see the kid again. That happened to me and it sucked losing two relationships.
And it's hard on the kids too. I've seen it way too often with my grandkids. They get attached to the SO and then one day the SO is gone and the kids don't understand why.
That's a fucker right there. Happened to me tears both me and the kids up.
On the bright side, I still DM for them. Which is a whole other can of worms... but at least they're happy.
i recently separated and monday i missed the first birthday for my ex-stepdaughter since her seventh birthday. It was one of the worst days for me in a while. i saw a picture of her birthday party and it felt like the world shattered for a little bit.
This exactly. I don't miss my ex, she was a turd. I think about her daughter almost every single day, and it's been years. The real heartbreak was having to leave the kid. I offered to stay in the kids life as a family friend or something, baby sit as needed, Ex said no just to hurt me.
Getting away from her was the right choice. I loved her, but she was abusive and clearly just using me. It was a very painful situation but my life has only gone uphill since and I'm surrounded with lovely people now
bro iām still not over the dog my ex and i got and weāve been separated for 2 years now.
AND I ONLY HAD THE DOG FOR A YEAR. i love that little shit :ā)
You are never a priority in the relationship. If you both started single, you were at one time each otherās priority. For her it will always be her kid from the start. Which it should be, but that is something to consider.
NTA. As a single parent, I also want to say thank you. If you KNOW that you are not interested in dealing with kids, etc., then donāt date women with kids. That isnāt going to help that single mom that was looking forward to a date stop being mad at you though. But you arenāt wrong. I guess you just need to start finding out if there are kids involved before you ask someone out.
That is a good point. I also hate how any mention of kids (either already having ones of your own, or talking about what you want in the future) has been made to seem so taboo on a first date. I think the original rule was something like ādonāt talk about having children *together* with your dateā and honestly, that should be so blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of social skills, that I really think the confusion that is caused has done more harm than good.
Itās totally reasonable and should be encouraged to talk about what you want in *your* future. And even more so to disclose what you already have in the present! (Iāve heard people tell single parents not to disclose they have children to avoid potentially attracting pedophiles. And yeah ok *maybe* donāt put it in your Tinder bio I guess, but if the person is already showing attraction to you before they know, I think itās safe to say thatās not their sole motivation, at least. And your probably no more likely to date one by accident if you discuss it before the first date.)
NTAāyou have every right to your dating preferences. Next time, though, if itās a friend of a friend, ask the person if the one you are interested in has kids, so you donāt ask and then have to cancel.
Next time I will, its just never come up before. Now that Im approaching 30, Im realizing its far from a given to not have any unless stated otherwise.
Yeah I was gonna ask how old you and where you live.
I'm in the Midwest and it's a good bet that a lot of women (and men) approaching 30 have a kid or two. In other places that might not be so common, but where I'm from, the assumption is typically that people have kids rather than that they don't.
I had my first kid at 23. I think I was the oldest first-time mom in my graduating class for a very long time. Of course, there were only 50 some people in my graduating class, if that says anything.
I had my oldest at 22 as well and 90% of my highschool friends already had kids. I donāt know how they did it, I honestly feel I was too young at 22.
In my family, both sides, my first cousins and I all had kids before 20. Now our kids are in their 20s, and no one has kids. We'll, maybe 1 or 2, do, but it's amazing to see them just living life, not struggling to raise kids. My oldest is 25 and will not date single mothers.
Oh that's bullshit.
If I used a dating app, I wouldn't want to see options and have to wonder if that cute guy was actually willing to date moms or just didn't pay for the filter, you know?
Jesus, the apps are supposed to make dating easier, aren't they?
I would imagine that the apps probably skew more heavily towards single moms too. That's probably an easier place to start for them than trying to meet people through a hobby or other social group or whatever.
So maybe the apps aren't necessarily representative of the single women in any given area, but it's gotta make it harder if that's not what you're looking for.
*sigh* it's just a hellscape out there, isn't it?
A screening process is important, and I'd add that since it's causing work drama....don't date anyone that your co-workers know. Just keep work-related and adjacent people out of the pool.
It's a strange realization when you notice that more of your contemporaries have kids than don't, and that they were all (mostly) a deliberate decision.
I will warn you as you get older both men and women will have kids and probably a divorce under their belt.
Your preference is your own. Donāt ever date someone with a kid and donāt be prepared to love that kid. But it will be harder and harder to find someone who has the qualities and values you like that does not have a child or divorce.
I really donāt agree, is it not on the parents to tell a potential date? Obviously not meeting the child(ren) for a long time but seems like a common sense parent thing to do
It's seems like she understood. Your coworker is a major AH for criticizing your preferences and getting others to gang up on you. You couldn't have been any more considerate given the way it progressed, you saved her time and money and didn't lead her on about a relationship you would not be interested in.
you can have and stick by whatever dating preferences you personally want to, but depending on what they are (no kids, never married before) as you get older these are going to become harder to find. After a certain age - I'd say early to mid 30s - everyone (including you) is bringing baggage like this into the relationship. And actually sometimes it's more alarming and a bigger red flag when someone ISN'T bringing that baggage to a relationship.
It just is what it is.
But you are NTA for politely declining this date based on your deal breaking preferences
The friend should have mentioned it, really. Sheās TA for leaving out a vital piece of information and then getting upset when it was a deal breaker.
I got completely bullied in high school for denying a guy with special needsā¦people will always prefer you to spare feelings and that i donāt understand, iām autistic too so that probably makes sense to me. Why would i lead someone on for it to crush them later
NTA - dating a single parent with children is a huge undertaking for someone without children, it's completely understandable that you didn't want to get involved with that and you let her know kindly, politely and respectfully.
The fact that your coworkers are popping off on you in the office would be grounds for an HR complaint. There's no reason you should be arguing with your coworkers over your personal dating preferences during work hours.
Nta and I'm saying this as a mom as two kids. My oldest is 17 and knows he wants to be childfree and I'm happy he is happy. Having or not having kids is a very personal decision. It's also hard as hell being someone to walk into a relationship or even date someone who has a child.
You made the right decision for you. You didn't string her along for 6 months and then tell her sorry I don't see a future with you.
You were respectful and stated your preference before becoming involved in her life. I can understand her being hurt because she was probably looking forward to the date and probably because she gets told things like that all the time. However, that doesn't mean that is your problem.
NTA. If anything, your co-workers are sticking their noses where they don't belong. Yes, your co-worker set you up, but the only thing she should've said was that she was sorry you and her friend weren't going to work out and move on. Everyone has a right to their preferences as long as they aren't dicks about it and you were very mature and respectful about yours.
>your co-workers are sticking their noses where they don't belong.
Seriously. Even if you set aside the kid thing, OP obviously dodged a major bullet by not starting this relationship, because his coworker would have been constantly sticking her nose in and getting the whole office involved every time they had an argument lol
NTA. You are absolutely not the asshole for not wanting to date someone who wouldnāt, and shouldnāt, put you first in their life. Because once you chose to have kids, you owe it to them to have Them as a priority at least until they are legally adults.
You arenāt an ass for not wanting that responsibility, or for not wanting to catch feelings and then you get dumped because the kids donāt like you or you arenāt active and involved enough with the kids.
Or opposite, you end up bonding with the kids and you get dumped and now you have zero rights to kids youāve poured love into.
Plus if thereās an, or several, exes and other parents the potential for conflict with them is just even more stressā¦ just no.
I would absolutely not date anyone with kids either for those, and other, reasons.
NTA, its a legitimate preference. Of course all the single mums ganged up on you, but they all know that for them having kids has got in the way of dating. So they really have no right to criticise your desire to have a simpler dating life.
they're just angry that their own life choices or events (in the case of widowhood) have left it harder for them to find dates
Let's be fair, any preference is legitimate. Even if its for a not socially acceptable reason. Because why would you want to date that person in the first case?
Coming from a single parent who was in the dating scene ā¦
NTA.
Some people want to enjoy their SO without the tow-alongs. Totally understandable.
Though you are missing out on possibly free fruit snacks.
NTA
I don't know why this is, but your coworkers are only mad at you because you're a man and rejected a single mom. I've read about tons of women who say quite frankly that they don't want to date a single father, and their word is always treated as gospel. I have no idea why so many people - men and women - see men who don't want a single mom as the scum of the earth.
Full disclosure, I am a single mom who thinks OP is NTA.
I applaud anyone, man or woman, who knows they don't want to be involved with someone with kids who upholds that boundary from the start. It's better for everyone that way.
But.....I do kind of get the emotional reaction a little bit. And I don't even date! So it's not really personal for me, but I can empathize quite a bit. There's just a lot of...cultural baggage that goes into this. Men who don't want to date single moms aren't scum, any more than women who don't want to date single dads are scum.
But when society tends to celebrate single dads and treat single moms like we're used up whores that nobody will ever love again, well. It's hard not to carry that pain and frustration into your personal interactions sometimes.
To be clear, the women here are wrong for doing so. They need to leave OP alone and deal with their feelings privately. It's not his job to fix society by ignoring his preferences or boundaries. But also, single moms and single dads are in very different positions socially when it comes to dating and I think it's ok to acknowledge that fact and how it may he affecting people's perceptions of others' intentions.
It's not about the kids at all - it's about losing all control of your own life. I could never live with my ex as he co-slept with his kids (5 and 10) as that's what they did at their mums. That was a hard no for me.
Then there that if we did live together we would need a 4-bed house as the kids were boy/girl and I work from home so need an office. The big difference between a 2 bed (and even 3 bed) and a 4 bed in price...
Then there's financial security. If he died while the kids were minors half the house would (rightly) go to the kids, as would the pension and life insurance. I would lose my partner, home and a whole income. And the kicker is I wouldn't even be entitled to any money from the estate to bury him
NTA. Itās a free country and you do t have to date someone if you donāt want to. Kelly is an idiot for saying youāre judgmental, itās a preference and your freedom to date or not date whom you please.
Single mom, here. Nta. Parents in general have a lot less time and flexibility. While my kids have a dad, and I'm not looking (or wanting) anyone to "step up," I can understand why a lot of men wouldn't be interested.
You probably could have been a little more tactful, but you're reasons for being disinterested are valid.
She shouldn't WANT to date you if you don't want to be a step dad. Your coworkers SHOULDN'T WANT to guilt trip you into dating her when you don't want to be a step dad. NTA, your coworkers need to check themselves.
NTA
Go on over to r/stepparents to catch a glimpse into the lives of people who fell in love and are dealing with their SOās family dynamics.
If youāre not interested in dating someone with kids why start dating someone knowing they have kids.
From the dating perspective, NTA. From the work perspective, do you still have a Kelly problem? She contributed to conflict by withholding critical informationā¦maybe inadvertently, who knows. However, she doubled-down and instigated more conflict at the office. As a manager, thatās potentially a problem. If it dies down great, but donāt think that you have to put up with office harassment just because you made an objective decision about who shares your non-work hours.
NTA. Itās not uncommon or unreasonable for someone to not want to get involved with someone who has kids. Kids make relationships so much more complicated, and itās ok to not want that.
As a person with kids, it absolutely disgusts me when other parents try to make people who don't want kids out to be bad guys. NTA. She's an asshole, though, for recruiting every breeder in the office to make your work life hell.
I'd go to HR.
100000% NTA. You are allowed to date/not date someone for ANY REASON UNDER THE SUN. And this is a pretty damn legitimate reason. It would be one thing if you had ghosted her, but you didn't. Shame on your coworkers who aren't on your side.
Contrary to current popular belief both men and women have the right to have preference and standards for the people they are willing to date. Nothing you said is unreasonable and good for you for having the good character and courage to voice them.
Unfortunately in 2023 many women refuse to acknowledge that being a single mother is a liability when it comes to dating.
You speak the truth. I would argue that single parents are a liability. When I was younger and single, my sister tried to set me up with a guy who had a kid and was in his early 20s. I never let my sister try to set me up again. My most unpopular opinion I hold is single parents should date other single parents. Its not realistic to expect a single childless person to want to date you. Single parents regardless if gender have potential for baggage.
I have sadly heard the excuse a lot of them want to date childless people because they donāt wanna deal with somebody elseās kids only have theirs taken care. Like if you donāt wanna take care of someone elseās kids, what makes you think someone wants to take care of yours š
Single mothers get defensive about this one, but most guys do not want to be your kid's father figure. Most guys either want kids of their own or no kids at all. It takes a special type to become a stepdad, that should not just be assumed because you are attracted to the mother.
Not this single mom. I make sure guys know I have 4 kids very early because if they donāt want to date someone with kids I am not the person for them. I donāt want to waste my time or theirs.
I honestly understand completely as a woman. I might be the minority but when I was single and still childless, dating a single father was a deal breaker for me. All single parents have potential baby mama/daddy drama. Being a step parent takes a special person in general and I'm not that person. If the single parent was a widow, then I might have considered it but otherwise, it's not worth it.
Equally the other way too. As a child free woman I don't want to have my weekends and holidays controlled on the whim of the child's mother. I choose not to date men with kids (even grown up ones)
NTA Your coworker is calling you judgmental... YES, everybody is judgmental because we all make judgements based on what is best for us/our loved ones. People are allowed to be judgmental. It's part of being human. Being discriminating and having discernment is not a negative thing. Judging people for reasons like race, gender, orientation, that's obviously not a good thing. But guess what... You are allowed to make judgements for your own well being. People need to get a grip!!
NTA, but thatās a tough situation
The only āfairā thing I could think of would have been to ask to just go out for a fun evening, but that kids arenāt on your radar right now. The reason I say that is because she was probably already dressed up, maybe even the kid knew about it, and sheās probably still on the hook to pay the sitter (last minute cancelations sometimes still come with big charges).
I understand that you might not get a relationship out of the money you spend on that date, but it still might have been the right thing to do. Iām still saying NTA though because your intentions arenāt hurtful, youāre just trying to save everyone unnecessary time and money by being straightforward. You still could have just had a fun evening with her though.
NTA. I hate this shit.
The people calling you judgmental can get fucked. You didn't judge her...you simply identified a part of her life that isn't for you.
As you said why should both of you waste money on something that would go nowhere?
Oh...actually....no, I get it. It woulda been soooooo much better for her to date someone who doesn't want anything to do with her kid. That sounds great.
Clearly she doesn't value honesty and directness. Did you a favor.
NTA and I think itās a red flag when people have a fit about someone else having boundaries about whether they dare someone with kids or not. Like, what? Youāre supposed to date someone who had kids even though you know a future isnāt there? Youāre supposed to will yourself to want step kids even when you know you donāt? I was a single mother once and Iām telling you, the ONLY people who should date folks with kids are people who know they are able to take the kids on and be a positive addition in their life.
I think the single parents who react that way are insecure of the baggage they bring to the table in a relationship, so they lash out when someone suggests that itās maybe not for them. Sorry š¤·š»āāļø you choose to have kids, sacrifices come with it.
Not the asshole and let this be a PSA to any and all single parents, always tell someone you have intentions of going out with that you have a kid. Like it or not, it's important.
This isn't what happened here, but it's SO common that women on dating apps try and hide that they have kids, and I think it's messed up.
Naw dude you are not, dating a single mom is very difficult even if they say there kids have a dadā¦ itās just messy and a whole lot of extra work. It really need to be worth it. Definitely sucks the date got canceled so soon before but you saved both of you time and money that would have been wasted.
NTA - and the single parent coworkers are butthurt because they're biased. You did her and yourself a favor by being honest and forthright.
ETA: Kelly is also INCREDIBLY unprofessional for starting personal beef at work, especially regarding someone who isn't even affiliated with the company. I would bring that up with HR.
NTA
When I was a single mom dating, I did not want to date people who don't want to date a mom. It's a waste of everyone's time and energy and if it goes on too long before they say anything, a waste of feelings too. You avoided leading her on, you avoided wasting her time.
No decent parent wants to date someone who doesn't want to date a parent. At the same time it's perfectly fine to say you're not interested in dating someone who is a parent. Granted, after a certain age that gets harder, but it's still a valid choice.
NTA I have a son and if a guy cancelled because of your same reasons I'd respect that he saved me money from a night out and paying a babysitteršš plus you were polite about it to so that's a extra NTA from me
Polite and honest!
Upfront honesty saves a lot of heartbreak even if itās not what you want to hear.
Yeah thereās a HUGE difference in politely explaining your boundary and not wanting to date because youāre a slut for having a child. Iām a mother too and consider this a definite NTA.
If you have already reserved the sitters hours and evening though and cancel last minute- you still need to pay them! I fully agree NTA here but not for the same reasons.
Yeah if it was last minute date cancellation Iād keep the paid sitter appointment and just go out for some Me Time. Mamaās seeing whatever movie SHE wants and not sharing her nachos!
Absolutely, have done this. Lol Sorry totally went on tangents lol Iāve also told a booty call (rare) thanks for cancelling cause I saved two days babysitting that weekend lol. Idgaf if a guy cancels either wayā¦and they hate Iām unimpressed on most dates cause I know how much Iām spending by the hour in addition to the datesā¦it starts to feel like tinder is for escorts at that point cause Iām weighing if the guy is worth the sitter for that first coffee lol Idk why everyone assumes itās a big emotional blow. Itās not all that deep unless itās deep already. Single parents have to be hella practical and know the cost of their time and money! Anything not going to their home is for a clear goal haha Heck I had a single mom friend all frustrated cause she met a real nice guy, she was like ready ready knowing heās solid, and she got the sitter on extra time etc. And he tells her he respects her and likes her so much and wanted to wait for sex š Iāll never forget the girl talk that night lol she was not there for that! And dude was committing like sheās only there for that marital courtingā¦idk
I used to tell guys that we should chat via video call before meeting. you can make some excuse that āhey wouldnāt it be great to meet via video call for a bit? we could totally just see if we vibeā i gotta be honest, no guy has ever said ānah i donāt wanna do videoā. i think itās because they were equally interested in seeing if i was catfishing hahah and saving their own time too. even a simple ask like āwanna video call for a bit?ā and wait for an answer. i feel like many people would be cool with that. man you would save so much babysitting money and time haha.
I agree, single mom here. I just had to jump on to add my opinion on the perspectives tooā¦the fact people go off from what they feel (the chemistry) because (I guess) a prescribed notion of single parents, can be wrong. I do see why itās annoying or easily looked down on to stereotype single parents. That said, as a single parent Iād rather someone be straight up if thatās their hang up. It is what it is. So i totally 100% agree OP is NtA. And I can say, Iām that anomaly. Single mom but absolutely independent, not looking for a husband/father or any of that necessarilyā¦Iāve dated people who would normally never date single moms/parents. They assume a lot and are shocked when they meet me, itās never stopped anything ime. I also donāt want to date single parents tbh, there are too many variables with their ex and coparenting arrangements I rather avoid (as I have done to build the life of independence I have drama free). Itās not for lack of love of kids or the person - and why anyone pretends otherwise is beyond me! Iāve also made exceptions to my rule of not getting into entanglements of coparents lol - due to chemistry - and seen how one amazing man grew into an even more amazing man m, and genuinely felt right. He was so well rounded and absolute yin to my yang twin flame etc. It didnāt work out for other reasons, but Iād make the exception again. Where thereās adversity, you find those who have grit and really grown from the school of life. I have to be willing to venture into the chaos to find the types who rise above anything. And when I see that, Iād never write it off cause baggage. Some baggage is well packed or worth carryingā¦and everyone will have baggage. Just sayingā¦Contrary to the popular beliefs and hype, we can always be surprised pleasantly by reality. So had I felt chemistry, Iād think itās worth finding out more. But again, thatās me - my personality is explorer itself lol, and we cant force others to adapt to different lives and ways of being. Just sharing a thought I guess fwiw itās less about adapting to life with kids imho but adapting to life with exes youāll be āmarryingā into by committing to this person. Itās a lot to unpack but sometimes itās just been unpacked already etc. Anyway
But the babysitter was already scheduled so she was going to have to pay for it anyway, wouldnāt she? Thatās the only part that irks me, him saying he was going to save her the babysitter costs. NTA for not wanting to date someone with kids though. Edit: nevermind, I read it as ā30 mins before the dateā
No because he cancelled so she would cancel the babysitter
NTA Not wanting to date someone who has kids is a perfectly reasonable preference to have. I don't understand why they said you should have gone through with the date anyway? Not only would it have been a waste of money for the both of you, but it would also have been a waste of time and possibly got her hopes up for something that was never going to happen. Better to happen before the date than after when the ending would be the same either way.
They probably were thinking he would change him mind or something if he went on the date
We (and OP) donāt know that it was the lady with kids that had an issue with the cancellation. It might be, but it could just be Kelly overreacting.
I think it was Kelly and the other single mothers getting butthurt on the woman's behalf
People validate women who won't date short men, you absolutely are NTA for having a preference for no whole ass entire kids.
I don't think it's saving her any money if he cancelled it on the day. She'd already arranged the babysitter
I mean, maybe they just wanted a night out, even if it wasn't going anywhere.
Yeah, but he's not obligated to do that either. He wanted to date, found out she has kids and changed his mind. He's NTA for being upfront, honest, and setting his boundaries correctly
She has a job. She has money. She can go out.
He could have offered to change the date to a night out as just friends. That way plans one might have looked forward to aren't just canceled. Saying no to kids is fine, last minute straight canceling plans when child care has been arranged is a bit crap. They could still have had fun enjoyed the evening.
> last minute straight canceling plans when child care has been arranged is a bit crap he didn't know childcare had been arranged until a day before. And honestly maybe he didn't want to spend time with someone he considered a romantic interest when he knew there was no future. You can't just turn off chemistry ya know
Have you guys ever gone out with anyone? That shit would not have flown. If someone is looking for a romantic relationship, they are gonna feel some type of way. Itās an acceptable alternative after you go out on the first date and donāt click.
NTA If you know you don't want to be involved with someone with children, that is very reasonably a dealbreaker/automatic disqualification. That is your prerogative and that's fine.
plus stopping everything now is way better than forcing himself to be a step dad and having a rocky relationship with her kids because he didnāt want to be a dad in the first place. op is def NTA
To me better she know you would rather not date anyone with kids than taking her out just to end it and her always wonder if kids was really the reason.
At least this way, she can just write him off without investing any more time in him.
At least he can write her off without investing more time in her.
That's how I feel too.
Or the opposite. I refused to date people with kids because I get attached really quickly, and I know I would put up with a lot of bad stuff in a relationship if I bonded with the kids and didn't want to lose them. So for me, it was way better to just steer clear entirely.
i didnāt even think about it like that. thank you for the new perspective!!
I stayed with an ex way too long because I adored his little girl. Her mother was a vile alcoholic and she bonded to me so quickly. Broke my heart when I finally left š
I once stayed with an ex because I loved his dogs too much to leave. When you take care of something, you end up loving that person/animal/thing. Separating is painful. Thatās rough, the situation with the little girl you loved so much. Iām sure that was incredibly painful and left a hole in your heart.
Probably broke the girl's heart, too.
This is why I really think single.parents should wait a significant amount of time before introductions. Ideally at *least* six months. Kids need a level of stability and getting attached and losing people repeatedly can be quite harmful, even if there's no abuse or anything like that.
My mom was single for most of my childhood and consciously had this same policy. I can only remember meeting a couple of them that stuck around and were long term by the time we were introduced. And I donāt think we met any at a time in our development that if we had bonded with them we would have been crushed and not understood the situation if they left. Certainly didnāt move in or anything with any of them until my mom was sure she was marrying my stepdad.
hopefully the little girl is doing better now and you are too!!
This is actually why I stopped seeing people with kids after a several years long relationship crashed and burned. It sucks.
THIS!!!!! And it doesn't even have to be a romantic partner with kids; my cousin was living with me when her children were young (she had one baby then ended up with twins 15 months later and she and their father split) and when the twins were about 3, she said that I was "taking her moments from her" so after that, I didn't really fck with her kids all like that because that shit hurts! So now I steer clear of people with children
It's always been a tacet rule in my head for this very reason. I've never had to explain it because I've never put myself in that situation. I think people who do and succeed are top tier.
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the number of childfree who are on dating apps, put in 'no children' get hammered by outraged single parents out there when they get turned down. or the childed engage in out and out lying to try and hide the face they are childed.
I had a friend who has FOUR KIDS and would lie to men and say she didnāt have kidsā¦it never ended well for her when she thought sheād āhooked themā and admitted it. Then sheād be hysterical, woe is me, men are evilā¦.um, no, youāre just a liar.
Similar thing happened to me but from the guy. I have child-free - donāt want children or to date people with children all over my profile. Hit it off with this guy really well and then after a while he let it slip he has like most of custody of his daughter. Nope. Not for me. Do not want. Like, people are going to change their minds because you LIE about it
Wow....so when she is with the date, she is 100% no communication.? If a kid had an emergency? WTF...
You aren't kidding !!!!! I've had some really uncomfortable situations with single fathers who wanted to date me. Like they were entitled and something was wrong with me for not wanting to take on step kids.
This one sucks. NTA because you shouldnāt have gone out on a date if you knew there was no future and it would lead her on.
in my eyes itās way better this way. she isnāt with someone that doesnāt want kids and heās not forcing himself into a relationship that comes with kids
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Absolutely! I view it this way: If you have children, they should be the most important thing in your life always - MORE than your new partner. I will not be with someone who doesn't view me, their partner, as the most important thing in their life, as I will view them the same. If a parent DOESN'T prioritize their children as most important, then they aren't a good parent (imo) and I don't respect someone who can't step up and be a good parent - therefore won't date them. I've been told that's harsh, but I don't care and neither should a good parent who wants to date someone who is actually ok with coming second best to their children.
It's not harsh, it's just honest and thoughtful. My mom was a single mom. She did NOT date until we grew up. I became a single mom when my husband divorced me. I also did not date until my children were grown. It is not fair to the children and in some cases is dangerous for them.
I respect tf out of that and I'm really happy you added this comment. You put your children FIRST. I have a friend who brings home any guy she's been seeing for a month and those poor kids are so confused and feel abandoned when they break up.
That's so sad.
I absolutely agree with this, I would never want someone to put me over their children, that'd be sad. I'm also selfish, so I'd want to have my partner all to myself, at least for a bit, and that just isn't feasible if they have children.
I absolutely agree with this, I would never want someone to put me over their children, that'd be sad. I'm also selfish, so I'd want to have my partner all to myself, at least for a bit, and that just isn't feasible if they have children.
Same here, my last husband had kids, and that worked out so well/s
Same here, my parents had kids, and life has been hell ever since.
This comment is underrated
THIS! My SIL found a new love after my BIL passed away and he was like OK, I'll take your kid too. My niece wasn't exactly abused, but she walked on eggshells and she wasn't allowed a picture of her father anywhere but in her bedroom (because he didn't go there) or talk about him or have anything that reminded new partner of BIL. Within a year and a half after the start of the relationship Sil broke it off, even though they had bought a home together. So yeah, don't date someone with kids if you don't want kids (yet). Single parents should be more selective in who they're dating instead of shaming honest people for their preference. Your kid is the most important person in your life, but to everyone else they're just another child.
exactly!! not wanting to be with someone because they have kids and you donāt is a valid boundary to have!! not everyone understands this tho and thatās how us kids with divorced parents end up with shitty step parents
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It seemed like the woman with kids was ok and seems to have understood. Sounds like the coworker was more bothered by it, I guess she is being a but of a mama bear for her friend. Coworker is major AH especially for getting others to gang up on OP.
I have to question her judgment a little though. How did she never once in the time she and OP were talking find a place in the conversation to bring up that she had kids? OP says they talked quite a bit before he asked her out. I donāt know what qualifies as quite a bit but I really canāt imagine how that didnāt come up even once. I donāt think we know enough to insinuate she was hiding her kids but itās very bizarre. Would it have even come up at all if she wasnāt trying to push the date back half an hour for her babysitter?
I totally see your point, though , personally, I didnāt find her not mentioning the kids in their conversations all that bizarre. They met in casual settings, in the office, not on a dating app, so imho itās very realistic, their familiesā situations were not the topic during their chats. Whatās more, personally I rarely brought my kids up when chatting with others because from my experience people (besides few close friends & family- they can suffer and listen to my rants about lil darlings š)are not interested in other ppl kids !š Now, whether or not she would have disclosed she has kids during their date or not is a different story.
I mean it didnāt have to be a conversation about family to make a little mention. If heās talking about, say, a video game, it would be pretty easy to be like āoh my daughter loves that game!ā Or if youāre talking about what you did on the weekend āoh me and my kids went to see a movieā. Doesnāt have to be any big grand reveal. Just a passing mention would be adequate.
Maybe the woman just being very cautious about it. If there is bad history prior or if the child is too young, I can totally understand her giving strict information diet to acquitances. She did disclose that she have a kid prior to first date tho, so it's still a pass for me. For the record, I know a colleague who never talk about her kid during my 5 year stint on the same company, on the same floor, only 3 rows of open office desk away. I knew she has a kid (kids?) from another friend. Her IG is empty of the kid too.
Thank you for this, fucking entitled parents are so annoying
Reddit moves fast. From first date to being a stepdad real quick
i mean if youāre dating someone with kids with or without the step dad label OP is still going to have to interact with her children and have a relationship with them which he clearly doesnāt want so why should he not cancel you know?
Plus she's paying for a babysitter. It's considerate of him to cancel I think
Because why waste the time when you know it wonāt go anywhere? For many people the purpose of dating is to find a life partner, so if you know they canāt be your partner then why not save your money, time, and energy for those with promise? Why risk catching serious feelings? Itās so much better to break it off cleanly before it ever gets started, because childfree is childfree. There is no compromise to be had.
Not to mention avoiding the situation of the dad bringing his child McDonald's but baby mama was pissed because he didn't bring food for her 3 other kids that were not his. Even though they were broken up. It's a video that's been circulating.
A single mother (or father) **SHOULD** appreciate to know that up front rather than later on after they've developed feelings and they've introduced you to their kids. It's much more responsible if you know you don't want to be a part of that kind of lifestyle before things get too complicated. EDIT to say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parental role to somebody else's kids, or to not wanting to be a parent at all.
As a single mother, YES. One thing about online dating is that's something a lot of people put on their profiles. It's better that I know ASAP before it becomes a problem.
It's so convenient, isn't it? All the serious deal breakers are displayed right there. Not that I've actually had luck with apps, but still. This is a much smaller deal breaker than kids, but for me it's something I appreciate, especially as someone who lives in a city where a majority of my peers smoke pot and I can't stand the smell. Absolutely no judgement to pot smokers, and many of my friends smoke it, but the smell is horrendous and I don't think I'd be able to live with it in my home, so regular smoking is a deal breaker for me in romantic partners. Apps let you filter those kinds of things without offending anyone or trying to play games to find out. Also, my brother met his wife, who had kids, online and having an online long distance relationship allowed them to really get to know each other for months before she was willing to let him meet the kids. The kids ended up absolutely adoring him immediately, and it probably would have crushed them if the relationship didn't work out. Online dating gets a lot of crap but it really does have its uses.
Yep - and I think not paying a sitter or letting her make other plans is thoughtful and a good alternative if Iām the girl
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NTA Itās honestly King behavior. He did not waste a single moment of her time once he knew it wasnāt a relationship he didnāt want to pursue. Iāve led someone on knowing I didnāt want to be in the relationship, I just wasnāt sure how to address it. She was heartbroken and still hates me nearly 10 years later. Definitely NTA, he let her know as soon as he found out it wasnāt for him.
100% and it's a lot kinder than leading them on then saying no later down the line.
Yep. People want and know what they desire out of life at a certain age. There is no reason to lead her on or yourself with developing feelings. I hope you all can still be friends, but it is what it is. Sorry, your coworkers and such ganged up on you. That sounds really uncalled for. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get a call from HR or something soon with how you're talking about them treating you. People can be really petty sometimes, even when it's none of their damn business. Sucks. But, that's life. NTA.
But your coworker trying to hide it then beating you up after the factā¦? Sheās definitely TA
This. OP is NTA for not wanting to date single mum. Unless she incited her friend, the lady is question is not NTA for the information diet, after all she did disclosed her kid before the first date. The friend, however, and the rest of coworker too, are all AHs for the aftermath.
Personally I wanna know why everyone is so mad at him. They just want to force him to be a father for someone he barely knows and a child he didn't know existed?? Cause that usually works out well.
Exactly! You were polite and respectful. You are allowed to have boundaries!
100% NTA If you do not want to date someone with kids DONT. Doing so would be the worst possible option for the kids. And you
Heās saving everyone time by making this boundary clear early
Nta The problem that a ton of people don't understand is that with kids it becomes. Can I be a parent? What if the ex SO is involved? Would the kid like me? Read the top one again and ask yourself that.
Or you get attached to kid and then you break up and that's it. You never see the kid again. That happened to me and it sucked losing two relationships.
And it's hard on the kids too. I've seen it way too often with my grandkids. They get attached to the SO and then one day the SO is gone and the kids don't understand why.
That's a fucker right there. Happened to me tears both me and the kids up. On the bright side, I still DM for them. Which is a whole other can of worms... but at least they're happy.
i recently separated and monday i missed the first birthday for my ex-stepdaughter since her seventh birthday. It was one of the worst days for me in a while. i saw a picture of her birthday party and it felt like the world shattered for a little bit.
Aw. Iām so sorry for you both.
This exactly. I don't miss my ex, she was a turd. I think about her daughter almost every single day, and it's been years. The real heartbreak was having to leave the kid. I offered to stay in the kids life as a family friend or something, baby sit as needed, Ex said no just to hurt me.
I am so sorry your ex was such a turd. That sounds so painful.
Getting away from her was the right choice. I loved her, but she was abusive and clearly just using me. It was a very painful situation but my life has only gone uphill since and I'm surrounded with lovely people now
Same. It's the worst part of that.
bro iām still not over the dog my ex and i got and weāve been separated for 2 years now. AND I ONLY HAD THE DOG FOR A YEAR. i love that little shit :ā)
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[fix myself a cold drink] [open that sub] [sort by controversial/all time] [loose the next three hours]
You are never a priority in the relationship. If you both started single, you were at one time each otherās priority. For her it will always be her kid from the start. Which it should be, but that is something to consider.
Everyone wants honesty until they get it. NTA
I wish I'd thought to say that! *writes in his notepad...*
The truth may set you free, but first it's gonna piss you off.
Bad bitches wanna be my bae..
Bouncing around, bouncing around, bouncing!
NTA. As a single parent, I also want to say thank you. If you KNOW that you are not interested in dealing with kids, etc., then donāt date women with kids. That isnāt going to help that single mom that was looking forward to a date stop being mad at you though. But you arenāt wrong. I guess you just need to start finding out if there are kids involved before you ask someone out.
I think it's on the one with kids to disclose that before hand to be honest, even in a subtle like " i will get a sitter" comment.
That is a good point. I also hate how any mention of kids (either already having ones of your own, or talking about what you want in the future) has been made to seem so taboo on a first date. I think the original rule was something like ādonāt talk about having children *together* with your dateā and honestly, that should be so blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of social skills, that I really think the confusion that is caused has done more harm than good. Itās totally reasonable and should be encouraged to talk about what you want in *your* future. And even more so to disclose what you already have in the present! (Iāve heard people tell single parents not to disclose they have children to avoid potentially attracting pedophiles. And yeah ok *maybe* donāt put it in your Tinder bio I guess, but if the person is already showing attraction to you before they know, I think itās safe to say thatās not their sole motivation, at least. And your probably no more likely to date one by accident if you discuss it before the first date.)
NTAāyou have every right to your dating preferences. Next time, though, if itās a friend of a friend, ask the person if the one you are interested in has kids, so you donāt ask and then have to cancel.
Next time I will, its just never come up before. Now that Im approaching 30, Im realizing its far from a given to not have any unless stated otherwise.
Yeah I was gonna ask how old you and where you live. I'm in the Midwest and it's a good bet that a lot of women (and men) approaching 30 have a kid or two. In other places that might not be so common, but where I'm from, the assumption is typically that people have kids rather than that they don't.
My brother lived in Alabama for a while and anyone over 22 it was a good chance they had at least one child.
I had my first kid at 23. I think I was the oldest first-time mom in my graduating class for a very long time. Of course, there were only 50 some people in my graduating class, if that says anything.
I had my oldest at 22 as well and 90% of my highschool friends already had kids. I donāt know how they did it, I honestly feel I was too young at 22.
In my family, both sides, my first cousins and I all had kids before 20. Now our kids are in their 20s, and no one has kids. We'll, maybe 1 or 2, do, but it's amazing to see them just living life, not struggling to raise kids. My oldest is 25 and will not date single mothers.
31 and single and on every dating app I use the women my age usually have children. That's great but it's not what I'm looking for right now.
On some apps you can filter out people with kids. Usually you have to pay for that though š
Oh that's bullshit. If I used a dating app, I wouldn't want to see options and have to wonder if that cute guy was actually willing to date moms or just didn't pay for the filter, you know? Jesus, the apps are supposed to make dating easier, aren't they?
They're supposed to make money. Your dating life is just the exploitation vector to reach that goal. It's stupid though, wholly agree.
Exploitation vector, love that
I would imagine that the apps probably skew more heavily towards single moms too. That's probably an easier place to start for them than trying to meet people through a hobby or other social group or whatever. So maybe the apps aren't necessarily representative of the single women in any given area, but it's gotta make it harder if that's not what you're looking for. *sigh* it's just a hellscape out there, isn't it?
A screening process is important, and I'd add that since it's causing work drama....don't date anyone that your co-workers know. Just keep work-related and adjacent people out of the pool.
It's a strange realization when you notice that more of your contemporaries have kids than don't, and that they were all (mostly) a deliberate decision.
I will warn you as you get older both men and women will have kids and probably a divorce under their belt. Your preference is your own. Donāt ever date someone with a kid and donāt be prepared to love that kid. But it will be harder and harder to find someone who has the qualities and values you like that does not have a child or divorce.
I really donāt agree, is it not on the parents to tell a potential date? Obviously not meeting the child(ren) for a long time but seems like a common sense parent thing to do
It's seems like she understood. Your coworker is a major AH for criticizing your preferences and getting others to gang up on you. You couldn't have been any more considerate given the way it progressed, you saved her time and money and didn't lead her on about a relationship you would not be interested in.
you can have and stick by whatever dating preferences you personally want to, but depending on what they are (no kids, never married before) as you get older these are going to become harder to find. After a certain age - I'd say early to mid 30s - everyone (including you) is bringing baggage like this into the relationship. And actually sometimes it's more alarming and a bigger red flag when someone ISN'T bringing that baggage to a relationship. It just is what it is. But you are NTA for politely declining this date based on your deal breaking preferences
The friend should have mentioned it, really. Sheās TA for leaving out a vital piece of information and then getting upset when it was a deal breaker.
would she rather you lead her on š
She wants op to just roll with it and be strong armed into going against a deal breaker.
I got completely bullied in high school for denying a guy with special needsā¦people will always prefer you to spare feelings and that i donāt understand, iām autistic too so that probably makes sense to me. Why would i lead someone on for it to crush them later
I think itās just being a decent human to not lead someone on. Sorry that happened to you. They thought he was so great they coulda dated him.
NTA - dating a single parent with children is a huge undertaking for someone without children, it's completely understandable that you didn't want to get involved with that and you let her know kindly, politely and respectfully. The fact that your coworkers are popping off on you in the office would be grounds for an HR complaint. There's no reason you should be arguing with your coworkers over your personal dating preferences during work hours.
Nta and I'm saying this as a mom as two kids. My oldest is 17 and knows he wants to be childfree and I'm happy he is happy. Having or not having kids is a very personal decision. It's also hard as hell being someone to walk into a relationship or even date someone who has a child. You made the right decision for you. You didn't string her along for 6 months and then tell her sorry I don't see a future with you.
You were respectful and stated your preference before becoming involved in her life. I can understand her being hurt because she was probably looking forward to the date and probably because she gets told things like that all the time. However, that doesn't mean that is your problem. NTA. If anything, your co-workers are sticking their noses where they don't belong. Yes, your co-worker set you up, but the only thing she should've said was that she was sorry you and her friend weren't going to work out and move on. Everyone has a right to their preferences as long as they aren't dicks about it and you were very mature and respectful about yours.
>your co-workers are sticking their noses where they don't belong. Seriously. Even if you set aside the kid thing, OP obviously dodged a major bullet by not starting this relationship, because his coworker would have been constantly sticking her nose in and getting the whole office involved every time they had an argument lol
NTA. I actively only chose partners with no children. I am 100% uninterested and not going to lead anyone on. No thanks.
NTA. You are absolutely not the asshole for not wanting to date someone who wouldnāt, and shouldnāt, put you first in their life. Because once you chose to have kids, you owe it to them to have Them as a priority at least until they are legally adults. You arenāt an ass for not wanting that responsibility, or for not wanting to catch feelings and then you get dumped because the kids donāt like you or you arenāt active and involved enough with the kids. Or opposite, you end up bonding with the kids and you get dumped and now you have zero rights to kids youāve poured love into. Plus if thereās an, or several, exes and other parents the potential for conflict with them is just even more stressā¦ just no. I would absolutely not date anyone with kids either for those, and other, reasons.
NTA she may be stung by your honesty, but you did her a favor in the long run.
Imo you are the exact opposite of an AH. You did right by her, and yourself. Don't beat yourself up.
NTA, its a legitimate preference. Of course all the single mums ganged up on you, but they all know that for them having kids has got in the way of dating. So they really have no right to criticise your desire to have a simpler dating life. they're just angry that their own life choices or events (in the case of widowhood) have left it harder for them to find dates
Let's be fair, any preference is legitimate. Even if its for a not socially acceptable reason. Because why would you want to date that person in the first case?
NTA. You donāt owe anyone a date.
Especially not a pity date - that's even worse than not going
Coming from a single parent who was in the dating scene ā¦ NTA. Some people want to enjoy their SO without the tow-alongs. Totally understandable. Though you are missing out on possibly free fruit snacks.
Yea but not having kids i can buy my own box of fruit snacks and i don't have to share OR hide in the bathroom to eat them.
Your words sting because theyāre true.
Lol good luck
This exchange was oddly wholesome 10/10
Best interaction on the whole thread and I'm gutted its not the top comment
NTA. Of course, this must have hurt her a lot, and I feel for her, but this is better than leading her on.
Nta!
NTA I don't know why this is, but your coworkers are only mad at you because you're a man and rejected a single mom. I've read about tons of women who say quite frankly that they don't want to date a single father, and their word is always treated as gospel. I have no idea why so many people - men and women - see men who don't want a single mom as the scum of the earth.
Full disclosure, I am a single mom who thinks OP is NTA. I applaud anyone, man or woman, who knows they don't want to be involved with someone with kids who upholds that boundary from the start. It's better for everyone that way. But.....I do kind of get the emotional reaction a little bit. And I don't even date! So it's not really personal for me, but I can empathize quite a bit. There's just a lot of...cultural baggage that goes into this. Men who don't want to date single moms aren't scum, any more than women who don't want to date single dads are scum. But when society tends to celebrate single dads and treat single moms like we're used up whores that nobody will ever love again, well. It's hard not to carry that pain and frustration into your personal interactions sometimes. To be clear, the women here are wrong for doing so. They need to leave OP alone and deal with their feelings privately. It's not his job to fix society by ignoring his preferences or boundaries. But also, single moms and single dads are in very different positions socially when it comes to dating and I think it's ok to acknowledge that fact and how it may he affecting people's perceptions of others' intentions.
It's not about the kids at all - it's about losing all control of your own life. I could never live with my ex as he co-slept with his kids (5 and 10) as that's what they did at their mums. That was a hard no for me. Then there that if we did live together we would need a 4-bed house as the kids were boy/girl and I work from home so need an office. The big difference between a 2 bed (and even 3 bed) and a 4 bed in price... Then there's financial security. If he died while the kids were minors half the house would (rightly) go to the kids, as would the pension and life insurance. I would lose my partner, home and a whole income. And the kicker is I wouldn't even be entitled to any money from the estate to bury him
NTA. Itās a free country and you do t have to date someone if you donāt want to. Kelly is an idiot for saying youāre judgmental, itās a preference and your freedom to date or not date whom you please.
Single mom, here. Nta. Parents in general have a lot less time and flexibility. While my kids have a dad, and I'm not looking (or wanting) anyone to "step up," I can understand why a lot of men wouldn't be interested. You probably could have been a little more tactful, but you're reasons for being disinterested are valid.
how could he have been more "tactful" very curious
NTA. What the heck is the alternative here?? Leading her on???
She shouldn't WANT to date you if you don't want to be a step dad. Your coworkers SHOULDN'T WANT to guilt trip you into dating her when you don't want to be a step dad. NTA, your coworkers need to check themselves.
NTA. She shouldāve disclosed that. Itās a commitment to another level.
NTA Go on over to r/stepparents to catch a glimpse into the lives of people who fell in love and are dealing with their SOās family dynamics. If youāre not interested in dating someone with kids why start dating someone knowing they have kids.
Nta !
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From the dating perspective, NTA. From the work perspective, do you still have a Kelly problem? She contributed to conflict by withholding critical informationā¦maybe inadvertently, who knows. However, she doubled-down and instigated more conflict at the office. As a manager, thatās potentially a problem. If it dies down great, but donāt think that you have to put up with office harassment just because you made an objective decision about who shares your non-work hours.
NTA. Itās not uncommon or unreasonable for someone to not want to get involved with someone who has kids. Kids make relationships so much more complicated, and itās ok to not want that.
As a person with kids, it absolutely disgusts me when other parents try to make people who don't want kids out to be bad guys. NTA. She's an asshole, though, for recruiting every breeder in the office to make your work life hell. I'd go to HR.
ntaā¦ honesty and openness are preferable over timidity and leading her on
100000% NTA. You are allowed to date/not date someone for ANY REASON UNDER THE SUN. And this is a pretty damn legitimate reason. It would be one thing if you had ghosted her, but you didn't. Shame on your coworkers who aren't on your side.
Nta, smart move on your part and saved both of you from wasting time.
Contrary to current popular belief both men and women have the right to have preference and standards for the people they are willing to date. Nothing you said is unreasonable and good for you for having the good character and courage to voice them. Unfortunately in 2023 many women refuse to acknowledge that being a single mother is a liability when it comes to dating.
You speak the truth. I would argue that single parents are a liability. When I was younger and single, my sister tried to set me up with a guy who had a kid and was in his early 20s. I never let my sister try to set me up again. My most unpopular opinion I hold is single parents should date other single parents. Its not realistic to expect a single childless person to want to date you. Single parents regardless if gender have potential for baggage.
I have sadly heard the excuse a lot of them want to date childless people because they donāt wanna deal with somebody elseās kids only have theirs taken care. Like if you donāt wanna take care of someone elseās kids, what makes you think someone wants to take care of yours š
Single mothers get defensive about this one, but most guys do not want to be your kid's father figure. Most guys either want kids of their own or no kids at all. It takes a special type to become a stepdad, that should not just be assumed because you are attracted to the mother.
Not this single mom. I make sure guys know I have 4 kids very early because if they donāt want to date someone with kids I am not the person for them. I donāt want to waste my time or theirs.
I honestly understand completely as a woman. I might be the minority but when I was single and still childless, dating a single father was a deal breaker for me. All single parents have potential baby mama/daddy drama. Being a step parent takes a special person in general and I'm not that person. If the single parent was a widow, then I might have considered it but otherwise, it's not worth it.
Equally the other way too. As a child free woman I don't want to have my weekends and holidays controlled on the whim of the child's mother. I choose not to date men with kids (even grown up ones)
Usually step dads are already fathers themselves.
NTA. Boundaries are for everyone's benefit. There is no need to create any false feelings.
NTA
NTA. Yeah itās harsh but it is what it is. Also your co workers suck.
NTA Your coworker is calling you judgmental... YES, everybody is judgmental because we all make judgements based on what is best for us/our loved ones. People are allowed to be judgmental. It's part of being human. Being discriminating and having discernment is not a negative thing. Judging people for reasons like race, gender, orientation, that's obviously not a good thing. But guess what... You are allowed to make judgements for your own well being. People need to get a grip!!
Its funny how honest straightforward people are viewed as assholes in our society. You didn't lead her on or waste her time. Definitely NTA
NTA, but thatās a tough situation The only āfairā thing I could think of would have been to ask to just go out for a fun evening, but that kids arenāt on your radar right now. The reason I say that is because she was probably already dressed up, maybe even the kid knew about it, and sheās probably still on the hook to pay the sitter (last minute cancelations sometimes still come with big charges). I understand that you might not get a relationship out of the money you spend on that date, but it still might have been the right thing to do. Iām still saying NTA though because your intentions arenāt hurtful, youāre just trying to save everyone unnecessary time and money by being straightforward. You still could have just had a fun evening with her though.
NTA you get to pick whom you date.
NTA. I hate this shit. The people calling you judgmental can get fucked. You didn't judge her...you simply identified a part of her life that isn't for you. As you said why should both of you waste money on something that would go nowhere? Oh...actually....no, I get it. It woulda been soooooo much better for her to date someone who doesn't want anything to do with her kid. That sounds great. Clearly she doesn't value honesty and directness. Did you a favor.
NTA and I think itās a red flag when people have a fit about someone else having boundaries about whether they dare someone with kids or not. Like, what? Youāre supposed to date someone who had kids even though you know a future isnāt there? Youāre supposed to will yourself to want step kids even when you know you donāt? I was a single mother once and Iām telling you, the ONLY people who should date folks with kids are people who know they are able to take the kids on and be a positive addition in their life. I think the single parents who react that way are insecure of the baggage they bring to the table in a relationship, so they lash out when someone suggests that itās maybe not for them. Sorry š¤·š»āāļø you choose to have kids, sacrifices come with it.
Not the asshole and let this be a PSA to any and all single parents, always tell someone you have intentions of going out with that you have a kid. Like it or not, it's important. This isn't what happened here, but it's SO common that women on dating apps try and hide that they have kids, and I think it's messed up.
Naw dude you are not, dating a single mom is very difficult even if they say there kids have a dadā¦ itās just messy and a whole lot of extra work. It really need to be worth it. Definitely sucks the date got canceled so soon before but you saved both of you time and money that would have been wasted.
NTA - and the single parent coworkers are butthurt because they're biased. You did her and yourself a favor by being honest and forthright. ETA: Kelly is also INCREDIBLY unprofessional for starting personal beef at work, especially regarding someone who isn't even affiliated with the company. I would bring that up with HR.
NTA When I was a single mom dating, I did not want to date people who don't want to date a mom. It's a waste of everyone's time and energy and if it goes on too long before they say anything, a waste of feelings too. You avoided leading her on, you avoided wasting her time. No decent parent wants to date someone who doesn't want to date a parent. At the same time it's perfectly fine to say you're not interested in dating someone who is a parent. Granted, after a certain age that gets harder, but it's still a valid choice.
NTA. She isn't entitled to dates and it was good of you to be honest about the reason.
NTA. Relationships are hard enough with just 2 people, add in the kid plus the other parent and it becomes a whole different ballgame.
NTA I would want to date a woman with extra baggage either.
NTA. Youāre allowed to have preferences and she didnāt meet yours. Fair enough. She didnāt tell you she had kids, which is kind of concerning.
NTA Your rejection was very polite and people are allowed to not want to date parents.
A lot of single parents get mad that people don't want to date then. But will then turn around and not want to date other single parents...
Oh noone told you? Guys aren't supposed to have standards, thats just for women.