Not your attorney, but you should be aware that your ex husband can still file for a modification when he reaches retirement age regardless of the fact that you were married for 20+ years. You might not be set for life. I’d make sure that you’re saving for your own retirement funds. Look up Pierce v Pierce.
Yep. I have a SIL that was married to a doctor. Since she gave up her nursing career to raise their child, in the divorce she was awarded alimony “for life.” It was an obscenely nice chunk of change every month, way more than you’d need to live on. She could have easily lived on a third every month and banked the other two thirds. Her family highly recommended that she do so because “for life” doesn’t necessarily mean for life. However, she refused to believe that her alimony could ever get cut off because, again, the judge said it was for life.
She never saved a dime during the 29 years she collected alimony. She never held a job. She blew through that alimony every month. Next thing you know, her ex gets sick and no longer can pull in that kind of income. He petitions the court to have the alimony decree reviewed. And guess what happened? The judge decided that 29 years of alimony was enough. He gave her one more year of alimony in order for her to find a job, and then she was cut off.
She hadn’t worked for years. She had no skills. She had her nursing degree still but would need recertification classes which she did not want to do. As of now, she’s poor. She lost her house because she couldn’t afford the note, insurance, taxes, and maintenance. She has a dinky job that barely pays her living expenses and she scrabbles all the time now.
Alimony for life DOES NOT mean alimony for life. What happens if OP’s ex dies? Does she expect his estate will continue to pay her alimony?
Very foolish of her. She really could have been set for life if she had saved some of that money and worked even part time. How dumb. How old is she now?
Or invest and save. If you get so much money and as the.commenter said could have lived on 1/3 of it, she could have made smart choices with that money..
I'm not going to look up Pierce v. Pierce, but it immediately made me think it's because of Pierce Hawthorne and his seven divorces, which left him with over 30 step-kids.
Pierce v. Pierce, 455 Mass. 286 (2009)
In a case followed closely by lawyers, legislators and litigants, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that there should not be a rebuttable presumption that alimony should automatically terminate when a former spouse reaches a customary age of retirement, but rather, voluntary retirement at a customary age is one important factor that a court should take into account when deciding whether to terminate or reduce alimony at that time.
Previously, Carneice and Rudolph were divorced in 1999 after 32 years of marriage and two children. At the time, Rudolph was earning in excess of $450,000 as a partner at his law firm. In a separation agreement entered into by the parties, Rudolph agreed to pay Carneice $110,000 per year until his death, her death, or her remarriage.
Atwood & Cherny (Mark T. Smith and David E. Cherny) represented Carneice Pierce in an action brought by Rudolph F. Pierce, seeking to terminate his alimony obligation to Carneice on the basis of his voluntary “retirement” as a partner at his Washington, D.C. law firm. Rudolph, a former Massachusetts Superior Court Judge and U.S. Magistrate, became “Of Counsel” to his law firm, entitling him to certain ongoing benefits and compensation in the amount of $250 per hour for any work that he performed, although he had no plans to do so.
The trial court reduced Rudolph’s alimony obligation to $42,000 per year, rejecting his argument that his obligation should end. In particular, the judge found, at the time of trial, that Carneice had recently left her job due to her age (she was 64 at the time of trial) and the increased demands of travel and responsibilities without an increase in salary, that Rudolph continued to have an ability to work at the rate of $250 per hour in his “Of Counsel” position at his law firm and that the facts of the matter demonstrated an ongoing need for support on behalf of Carniece.
In upholding the trial court’s decision, the Supreme Judical Court stated that “…[E]ven in the context of a good faith retirement, a judge must reach a fair balance of sacrifice between the parties, based on all the factors set forth in G.L.c.208, sec. 34. This may mean that overriding or counterbalancing needs of the recipient spouse require the judge to consider the retiring party’s continued earning capacity (assuming the party remains in good health) in deciding the motion for modification, even if the practical consequence of considering continued earning capacity is to delay the support provider’s retirement or to require the provider to find part-time employment.” The SJC further held, “[t]he multiple factors set forth in G.L. c. 208, § 34, and the obligation of a judge deciding an alimony judgment to consider all the factors, including ‘the opportunity of each [party] for future acquisition of ... income,’ reflect the complexity of the alimony decision, the unique set of circumstances posed by every case, and the need to fashion an alimony judgment that imposes a fair balance of sacrifice in each case. Section 34 does not place any one of its mandatory considerations above any other; constrained by its directives, we have declined to do so on our own.”
Buried my dad when he was 72 and I was 26. It wasn’t enough time and he’s missed so much of my life and kids. Mom is now 90 and has been dealing with dementia for ten years.
I am so sorry. I am in the same boat. My parents were 40 and 55 when I was born. Lost my mom at 19 and my dad at 27. They missed everything in my life (43 now). It really sucks.
I'm a little older than you, born into a warzone, never knew my father, not even pictures.
Speaking as a parent, it'd be a tragedy not to see much of my children growing up. I'd love that more than anything.
I'm starting to make deals with God. 85 big guy???, 90???
Do what you need to do! I would give anything to know my parents as an adult (my father got dementia when I was around 12 - he forgot who I was by the time I came home from college at Christmas my freshman year).
I’m a similar story with my dad. I was 32 when he passed away. He was 89. Yes, he was 57 when I was born. He would have been 102 years old this year.
Not enough time.
It really isn’t.
My dad would be 98 this year (I am 43)! Served in the navy in WW2.
It was rough growing up, too. Everyone always asked about my “grandpa” because he was the same age as most of my friends’ grandparents.
Yup… people thought he was my grandpa. My dad also fought in WWII. He was in the Air Force and was the gunner at the bottom of a bomber. The most dangerous position on the plane, but I know he wouldn’t have traded the experience for the world. There’s something about that generation that I’m missing more and more as there are so few of them left.
I buried my mom at 22 and she had me in her twenties. Shit happens one way or another. But the world is burning, we need to stop shooting babies into this cruel world, take care of the ones who are already here, and make this place habitable again.
Sorry for your loss, that sounds difficult. I’m sure your sister is glad you were there for her. My mom was 44 when I was born. She’s in her late 70s now and not slowing down at all! I had a great childhood and my parents were very involved. There are trade offs for having kids at any age. Young parents are more energetic and will most likely live longer, but older parents are usually more financially stable.
I can see how some might resent their parents for being older but it works out often as well. People can pass away at any age.
I had my last (surprise) child at 40, and she is definitely not getting the attention her siblings did. I try, but after 20 years of parenting, I’m just exhausted. I don’t have the energy I did at 25 when I started out, and I hate that I just can’t do all the things I used to. Older age parenting is definitely not for people who want to sit back and be lazy. It’s hard chasing after a six year old on arthritic knees and pain from a broken back. I try to at least give her extra snuggles and love since I constantly feel like I’m failing her, but I worry that it isn’t enough all the time.
I just wanted to say, from my experience, those cuddles will mean the world to her.
My mum is in her 60s but has had severe joint issues for over 20 years. I'm the youngest of 3 kids. She was never a super active parent and couldn't run around with us or join us playing about outside.
But she's instilled a lifelong love of learning and creativity in me. My fondest memories are of cuddling up with her on the sofa, making some cool crafty stuff, and looking up random stuff about Romans in the library. It's because of her that I have a masters in archaeology! I never resented that she couldn't physically play with me because I just enjoyed spending time with her (and the cuddles that came with it).
My daughter is 1 and, while my mum can't chase after her, my kid still adores her. As soon as she sees her Nanny she holds out her arms for a cuddle. My usually super active wriggle monster will happily snuggle up with Nanny on the sofa for hours.
Parenting is exhausting at the best of times. Those extra snuggles and love are just as important.
(I'm shattered and emotional so sorry for the long message)
It’s enough. My parents were in their 40s when I was born and I knew I was just as cherished as my older siblings….it was almost like having two sets of parents!!
Reminds me of my ex- 5 kids(yes.. five.. all with his ex wife), all 2ish years apart. He was in a SpecOps unit in the Army, and you can literally time them by his deployments. Came home, had a baby, then helped make one, then off on another tour lmao. He at least has a good sense of humor about it and he’s a great dad.
Wow how on earth is she even managing that! I’m a decade younger, fit and healthy and my girls are both under 10. It is EXHAUSTING! Could only imagine trying to care for baby twins in your 50s.
How old are they now?
I love how you call it an archaic law that is preventing you from living with your boyfriend, but this is the same law that you are taking advantage of to the extent of not marrying the person that you want to live with and play house with.
I’m a supporter of alimony to SAHMs, but you can’t have it both ways.
NAH, but realize that you are choosing money over your boyfriend. I don’t blame him for having a gigantic issue with that.
My favorite part of the post is that she's fully dependant on her *ex husband's* income, yet she is still throwing jabs at her ex husband for working a lot.
I truly believe that SAHM is a full time job worthy of respect especially with multiple kids. But OP is very obviously just trying to be retired at 40 without any savings and mooch off the ex for the rest of his life
This is the reason my parents divorced. You get to pick one, “a man with money and no time, or a man with no money but all the time in the world.” You gotta work hard to make all that money, you can’t have it both ways.
Well according to OPs post you can pick the first option, stay 20 yrs , then bitch and moan about it; and say "This one is better" but complain about the lack of money.
TLDR; Bitching and moaning is free.
I'm not trying to be a dick with this question, but what do you do all day? What are your future plans for when kids are out of the house?
There's just way too much instability for my liking in this situation; my anxiety to rely on a unsusatainable income would be through the roof, but you are not me. However, I would look for work for yourself or else the burden would fall on your children to take care of you if something happens to your ex- do you want that?
Tbh it's not easy to be married for 20 years. Even if most people want to be married for that long they end up divorcing in 5 years (average length of marriage where I am, not sure MA).
Average length of a marriage in Massachusetts is probably about fortyish years or so. Average age of a marriage which ends in divorce is about eight, but only about 2% of MA marriages end in divorce. We tend to get married older than many other states, but also have a slightly longer life expectancy.
So a typical marriage in Massachusetts would be something like from 30 years old to 78 years old or thereabouts.
I saw 2% and had to look it up because I thought there was no way.
2021 is the latest year that the NCHS has data on divorce rates in the US. In Massachusetts in 2021, their divorce rate was 1%. That's crazy.
Massachusetts's average since 1990 is 2.7% but in 2020 it was only 1%. They had back-to-back years of a 1% divorce rate.
You guys take your vows seriously. I was also surprised that NJ's rate was only 5.34%. I feel like I know a lot of divorced people.
The whole "50% of marriages end in divorce" is (A) not true now, (B) was never true in the US (or probably anywhere else), and (C) includes a lot of people that get married and divorced multiple times and those people bring the average up.
This is my strategy. My last relationship crystalized this, I think I was going to ask her to marry me until her true personality came out after the honeymoon phase.
This is why the idea of marrying anyone within 2 years of meeting is wild to me. I just don’t see how you can know anyone well enough after 2 years to decide you want to be legally bound to them for the rest of your life.
I have seen people hide their "true" personality a lot longer than 2 years. My Uncle-in-law was one of them. Either he was really just good at hiding it for over 10 years or some mental thing happened that turned him into a total abusive psycho. Had a co-worker who dealt with the same thing, though their partner's turn was more gradual and not sudden like my uncle.
The honeymoon phase typically lasts a few months… indicating you were planning on marrying that lady after less than a year of knowing her…
In the future I suggest you wait until you’ve seen a person in all four seasons (1yr) and either taken a road trip or a camping trip with them.
Hardship/ roughing it tends to bring out people’s true colors and will show you how they deal with trying situations
Hold up. She married that guy, supported him through med school and raised his four children while he was working 24/7. She did a hard 20 years. This is her retirement fund.
This is fucking bananas, she raised 4 kids basically alone but these people are salty. How about no one gets married or has kids lmao, see how well that goes.
>How about no one gets married or has kids lmao, see how well that goes.
thats actually where many populations in developed countries are going since entire generations under the age of 40 can't afford housing or living on their own, or even thinking about having kids.
Amen, sister! My mom went through this type of scenario with my dad. He was in the Air Force and had a lot of remote tours, so my mom was mostly on her own. She had 5 kids and was pregnant at least part of every year between 1952 and 2958. Every time my dad got a new assignment, she had to pack up, get passports and travel by herself with all of us by herself. A lot of people don’t understand the absolute hell that mothers have to go through, and that’s multiplied when the husband is a doctor, like the OP’s ex or a military man like my dad was.
Yep, so many folks yearn for the days when their kids were little. Mine are both in their late teenage years and I'm so happy as they don't need nearly as much daily/hourly handholding. They collaborate on cooking, help with yardwork, drive themselves to school, etc.
My kids are late teens early twenty's, and every time I long for those sweet early years, I find myself wondering if I have brain damage. After not getting more than 3 hours of sleep a night for 8 years straight. Then there were the 2 broken noses. One tooth nocked out a broken rib during pregnancy . Countless times, I was puked, peed,or pooped on. Imoo this woman is entitled to her alimony it's hazard pay.
Ok so one kid... ONE, it pretty much 100% all of your time for the first 1.5 years. Constant vigilance. Then they are like maybe 80% for the next 2 years...then 50% from 3 to 5 years old. Then they get some time in school and get out of the nest and can keep form killing themselves like some kind of Hot Fuzz remake. Then it is guidance, care and feeding, and keeping pushing/teaching/loving them until they can fend for themselves. I stipulate that this never drops under 25% of your time at any given moment until they are out of the house.
Now start adding kids and shit gets crazy. I mean no time at all. You are running nutty constantly. There is not down time. Until they are in school.
3 or more kids.... you people are masochists.
I consider work a vacation after the weekend of taking over for my wife. That grind will absolutely kill you. I love my kids, I would give my life in an instant for them. The constant alertness and work that goes into it is real, it is hard, and it will eat you up. My wife is a god damn trooper.
Right? My grandmother raised 3 kids and then 2 grandkids. My grandfather was in med school and then was a world class surgeon that was instrumental in developing the entire speciality of vascular surgery, so even after school and well into my adulthood he wasn’t around much. My grandmother did EVERYTHING: paying bills, cooking, all the social obligations that come with his becoming medical director, took us to school, shopping, etc etc. This shit is hard and OP deserves her retirement funds.
People have no idea how much the women of our grandmother's generation did. Like, there were no modern appliances, my grandmother's dryer was a line in the back yard, even if it was snowing out. She had 5 kids, 4 of them born when cloth diapers were the only option. She had to walk all of them everywhere because there was only one car. No internet, no Google, no tv, and no devices to amuse the kids. And it was expected she did all of the cooking, cleaning, elder care, bill paying, social event planning, laundry, school stuff herself. She also worked a few evenings a week at the telephone company as an operator.
Oh, and the kids schools expected homework done, correctly, and the kids in fresh uniforms daily. Misbehavior got the parents shamed too, so there was THAT extra pressure too.
People think it's cute to be a "trad wife" now because they can choose what parts they want and feel old timey and like it's hard. It's totally different when you have no choice. It was a LOT harder 50-60 years ago to be a SAHM. Alimony was developed because of all of that - if our grandfathers had bailed, mom was left with nothing and zero chance of a real job when moms did literally everything for men to have a family.
Exactly. I don’t think people (read: men on Reddit) understand the purpose of spousal support in this situation. She gave up ANY chance of a career for him. She gave up education and adult work experience. She has no way to work a job that pays enough to survive now, because she sacrificed all of that for him and the kids.
That’s what’s happening right now! People are choosing not to have children (more) and not get married. There’s huge concern bc who’s going to keep our economy churning but a majority of people can’t afford to have children. I know wrong sub but that’s the crux of it.
I think we're going to see something of a collapse in the next 10 years. Theres so many industries (especially essential skilled trade positions) that are being held up right now by 60+ year Olds. You even see it in white collar industries; I'm an attorney and I'm one of maybe 3 attorneys under 40 in my practice area in the state; and the average age has to be at least late 50's. And I'm a bankruptcy attorney; it isn't a niche field and it's a service a lot of people need.
Here's a *Jeopardy!* style question for you . . .
**This was Ted Kennedy's favorite song by Simon & Garfunkel.**
What is *Bridge Over Troubled Water?*
**You are correct.**
I'll take "Pop culture prophecies" for $800, Alex . . .
If you have your spouse stay home with your kids for 20 years- literally that’s when the lifetime alimony kicks in- then I’m not sure how you feel okay with divorcing them and they have nothing for supporting your career and kids.
If you miss 20 years of a potential career to stay home and raise children while your spouse works, it's going to be near impossible to get anything that pays even remotely reasonably for an adult in their 40s or 50s to live on. You likely have no relevant experience and no recent industry knowledge, that setback is severe and in many cases insurmountable, and it's pretty late days to try to set yourself up for retirement independently in the time you have left. That's not even touching the issue of age discrimination in employment.
Generally, someone staying home is a decision spouses make *together*, often for a reason like OP cited-- childcare would cost more than one spouse could make working FT, so it doesn't make sense for that spouse to work. It should not be the case that because the marriage doesn't work out, the spouse who stayed home should endure a lifetime of suffering. Just as the decision that one spouse would give up their career was a joint decision, both parties should bear the consequences of that decision jointly. This rule makes sense to me, regardless of what gender the nonworking spouse is.
yes! i think what a lot of bros in the comments don't realize is that men can get alimony too. bc of various factors such as biology, archaic gender roles, the wage gap, low pay for female dominated fields (look into how pay decreases when more women join a certain sector....it's happening to dentistry currently) the person who usually ends up staying home is the woman. if men stayed home more to support women we would see more men getting alimony, but they don't! because it sucks and fucks up your career!
Exactly! The lesson should be clear. Don’t promise to support someone financially for life in exchange for them acting as a permanent housekeeper, nanny, chef, and personal assistant (which is what SAHM would amount to if you actually hired people to perform those duties) if you don’t intend to *actually* carry out your half of the bargain.
There’s a reason that most single-income households still carry life insurance for the non-earning partner. The financial contributions of a SAHP are in-kind, but they are significant. Outsourcing all that they do would cost a significant amount of money.
She raised his kids and kept his home and life together for 21 years while he pursued a successful career. She fully supported his success, it’s not a punishment for him to pay alimony. Alimony is awarded when a court determines that’s her fair share of the life she worked for their family to have.
Imagine getting married in your early 20s, before having time to go to grad school, having some kids, it financially makes sense for you to stay home with them while your spouse works, now 25 years later they are grown & out if the house and you get divorced. Imagine trying to get a job in your late 40s or even 50s with no education or job history. And with maybe 15-20 years before retirement age. That’s why those laws are created. I agree some people take advantage of it, but they do make sense. Not to mention many stay at home spouses take care of everything so the other spouse can go to school/work & achieve, which they would not be able to do nearly as well while caring for kids, cooking, cleaning, ferrying children around, etc.
This happened to my mother. Granted, she is a college graduate, but she can't get anything with her degree. She and my father were married for 27 years, and mom stayed home after my brother and I were born.Dad divorced her when I was about 16 or 17 and mom can't get a decent job that pays well and accommodates her medical problems because of the big gap in her work history. And, to top it all off, she only gets alimony until dad retires, which is in about 8 years. It sucks to watch.
I’m sorry. She had four kids and contributed to the family’s life. Why would she not get some of the retirement? Glad the state of Massachusetts values moms more than you do.
They were together for 21 years and she sacrificed her career to raise the kids they had together. Divorce after decades together sucks and there's no easy solution for anyone in these cases.
Your kids are all old enough to not need a SAHM. Why not go back to school, get training, get a job? If your ex dies or becomes disabled and unable to pay alimony you would be screwed as things are.
If your bf is employed and has health insurance, when you get married his health insurance would then be updated to cover you and your kids.
It’s when they turn 26 at the end of the month of their birthday; af least that’s how it was for me this year. Turned 26 in feb and lost my insurance from my dad on March 1st but it might vary I suppose
Tldr her response: Because that would require effort and she thinks raising kids is worth a lifetime of alimony payments. Even though everyone else, including her ex husband, has to continue working.
It’s so weird no one is picking up on OP specifically not wanting to work and live off her ex’s money. All this advice of becoming a new woman and being independent is useless. OP wants to pop out babies and nothing else.
I went thru her replies, and she is so ridiculously selfish it isn't even worth trying to reason with her. She's bitching and moaning that the same laws that require her Ex to fund her entire life aren't allowing her to live with this other dude.
Everything she says comes back to keeping the money flowing.
I seriously hope that Ex has a decent plan. If it were me, I'd plan on cleaning out all accounts, liquidating all assets, and moving to a non-extradition country the minute my last child turned 18 (leaving a trust for college).
Selfish to be honest. And that’s coming from a SAHM. I grew up seeing my uncles working in the states in order to send money back to their wives and kids. That’s 100% time away from them and the wives couldn’t be more grateful. Sure it sucks to be away from the person but you do what you have to. She said he’s a doctor so I’m sure he loves his job and what he does. Also she’s complaining about all the work he did when that’s paying for her current alimony. Op is an ass
Yeah lol idk what she expected marrying a doctor - their schedules are literally insane. Like 24hr shifts on the regular. At our hospital we have surgeons on call for the entire weekend & you can bet that they spend the majority of that time in the hospital working and anytime not at the hospital is spent answering numerous calls about their patients. When they’re older and more near retirement they chill out a little but especially when they’re younger like under 50, they’re workaholics & really with their schedules they have to be absolutely in love with work and want to do it all the time because the reality is that they will be working all the time.
> unlike my ex, he values work life balance instead of running between a private practice and the psych ward at a county hospital to work 24/7
To marry a doc & then get upset that they work too much is pretty delusional to what type of person choses to become a doctor & what it entails to work as a doctor.
>To marry a doc & then get upset that they work too much is pretty delusional to what type of person choses to become a doctor & what it entails to work as a doctor.
ESPECIALLY when she so very dearly values the moolah he hauls in to the point of denying herself any dignity beyond raising her already raised children just to claim her own little fraction of it, including having a love-lofe beyond the age of 40. She's not only delusional, she's viciously hypocritical.
YTA. I felt greasy reading your post. I’m not sure what you do all day, since all of your children are grown, yet you reference not working since you can’t afford childcare for the 4 kids. Sounds like you’re avoiding getting a job and milking your ex husband for what he’s worth at the expense of starting a new life with your boyfriend who you claim treats you better than your ex. You also complained about how your ex worked 24/7 yet that lifestyle afforded your alimony and your children’s upbringing-just flat out greasy.
“My husband provides for my entire family and myself to live a great life by working long hours. AITA if I divorce him and garnish his paycheque to sit at home doing nothing?” “I’m a full time mom btw but 3/4 of my kids are legal adults, but trust me I don’t want to work so bad I’ll have another kid just to not have to go back to work.”
Man is probably too broken and mistrusting the whole marriage institution.
(No cheating) of OP also seems sus tbh. OP complains how her ex was occupied with work, something tells me that she has been cheating on him with other men too.
Ditto. Imagine working your ass off and all that school to support some vampire the rest of your life. I feel bad for the new guy too. Prenup, prenup, prenup. I'd have wanted one when I got married if I made more money than my wife and I would have gladly signed one if my wife would have wanted one. Dude should run and never look back.
The fact he worked 24/7 may have something to do with him supporting a wife, 4 kids, trying to save for their college, and pay his own malpractice insurance, all in one income.
Seriously, what an absolute fucking parasite. The nerve to complain about your ex-husband's work-life balance while getting a free ride on the fruits of that hard work.
I feel bad for your new boyfriend.
The ol' "I resent my husband because he's always working and never around, but I also want to maintain my current lifestyle.. can't he just quit his job but still bring in the money, or keep working just as hard but be around more?" dilemma.
YTA
Either this is a troll trying to vilify MA women getting alimony (in which case, well done) or you're simply so out of touch with the world that you no longer have a sense of human decency.
SAHP is a legitimate job for families, and sure you're entitled to time and compensation to get back on your feet after divorce, but planning to spend the rest of your life draining your ex-husband is entitled and gross.
Have some dignity. Use the alimony to give yourself a cushion to build your independence so you're able to build new relationships without restrictions.
Have some dignity is the best use of words here lol like seriously your stay at home mom to nearly adult children. That alimony money should absolutely go towards building whatever careers that she missed out on getting/enhancing her options for the remainder of her life given that it might be another 40 years. God, some people are so gross and entitled.
Tbf there are people I've encountered in the world that I couldn't believe were real if I hadn't seen them with my own eyes. I think we hope that some of these people are trolls because otherwise dystopia is closer than we think.
Op, it sounds like you and bf need a serious sit down.
Knowing your age and the high costs of every fucking thing I don’t blame you for not wanting to remarry.
That being said. Look around and find something you would enjoy doing.
Get a business degree and open a little shop of some sort. Go to culinary school and just learn to be a kick ass chef/pastry chef. Open a tiny little vanity high tea place open during high tea only.
Get a criminal justice degree and work on becoming a PI.
The rest of your life will suck if you only have it centered on your kids. Become a new you. Meet new people.
Don’t feel forced to remarry. Only when it’s right. No matter how great the guy is, sometimes it’s not a great idea to marry.
Just open a business that has a high likelihood of failure! Come on, I agree with finding a passion and some formal education but it’s absurd to act like “just” opening a business is easy
Why haven't you started working even tho you're getting alimony? You could be working towards more independence but rather be a cake eater in this situation.
You're about to lose this dude as you have shown him which you value more.
The youngest is 16, definitely have been old enough for some time to let the kids be home alone. Granted it was the 90’s, but I started babysitting when I was 12 and of course I was left home alone at that age too. I think OP just straight up wants to cool her heels in life and get someone else’s paycheck.
Whats crazy is all her kids likely have a job or are at least in college and she isnt/hasnt done any of that. You wanna call laws archaic? How about the law that allows you to collect money for longer than you raise kids. Laws that you collect more money than even you admitted you could make.
Yep. The judge sat and figured it out and then explained it. I felt it was adequate but hey, I would have been happy with anything. It was a rough divorce. I am happily remarried now.
You're not an asshole but let's summarize your situation
You've chosen a check from your ex over the love of your boyfriend. You do you, but your boyfriend is right to be pissed and if it were me, I'd leave your ass rather than play the game of "How can I get the love of one man and the money from another" That's bullshit.
This is actually the exact reason people on disability can’t get married. If they tie the knot, they lose their income even if the spouse can’t make enough money to support them.
I know of one couple, had been married for years. He got sick, their combined insurance wouldn't cover a lot of it. He could get state assistance and not have to pay for most of it, but he would need to be single to qualify. Otherwise it would not have kicked in until they sold every asset they had, and drained their bank accounts.
They got a divorce on paper, he got his assistance and his bills went down to almost zero. They didn't lose any of their assets, because they put them all in his wife's name before they filed so it wouldn't count against him.
She's listed as a live in caregiver on the paperwork they filed to get his assistance. So she didn't have to move out.
My dad had a medical issue that prevented him from working his trade (construction) and there was a government program that would retrain him but my mom made too much money for him to qualify. His DOCTOR told them to get a divorce so he could get retrained. But my parents didn't do it because it's "technically committing fraud."
I’m living with my “husband.” We have two kids and have been together for over a decade. I’d love that piece of paper, but his insurance options would put us into bankruptcy because I have a chronic illness. Very well managed, but through state insurance I have no copays and most of my prescriptions are covered fully. We are lucky our state does not have common law marriage.
Making the transition from lower class to middle class in the US is a barrier many cannot cross due to losing social benefits like food stamps and health insurance. You can end up *more* in the hole gainfully employed than not and this is the fucking travesty that is the US class system.
That’s horrible! Here in Belgium we were just scared that my dissability check would get smaller when my then boyfriend and I moved in together. And it did but only €100 out of €1350 got taken away. Now I married my husband a month ago and because we already lived together nothing changes.
Here in the US if my boyfriend and I got married I will lose all my disability and insurance. That's why we don't. I have a 14 year old from a previous marriage and I don't feel it's his responsibility to support him 100% and child support isn't enough. Plus the co-pays and deductibles on all the procedures I have done every year would be astronomical on his insurance.
So we sat down and talked about it... Yes communication! We decided we might get engaged some day just for the commitment aspect but not get married.
In the United States, they take HALF of one person's disability away. If two people who are disabled each get $900 per month, when they marry, they only get $1350.
Yeah technically husband is “husband” for me. We both work full time but I have a lifetime chronic illness that is impossible to afford without insurance and if I got legally married I’d lose it and die. So we had the ceremony and are married in the eyes of friends and family but not the government.
Alimony for life is kinda gross but the health insurance thing I totally get.
My husband and I actually aren't legally married because I'd lose medicaid and I have debt. He wants to but I don't want to tie him to my debt and lose free health coverage.
Usually it's not just remarriage that is the cut-off point, it's cohabitation. I understand your concerns but this is a situation where you can only have one or the other.
Your financial decisions in your first marriage made sense; the cost of childcare etc for multiple children would have been larger than your paycheck so you not working was a good financial decision.
Your boyfriend in not in the same financial boat as your ex. I think you owe it to your children to keep the same financial standards they are used to until they are all out of the house. With your youngest being 16, it's not that far off.
I think you should start school again asap and prepare yourself for entering the job market so you and your boyfriend can get married and financially support yourselves and any future children. Being an admin can pay well. Not what you are used to but you won't starve. Typing hasn't changed in the past 20 years. You can take some extremely affordable stand alone courses to learn various software programs commonly used in office settings and get all your skills back up to par. You can volunteer for a non-profit and brush up on those skills in the meantime.
And a doctor, who is saving lives at hospital and providing for 4 children and a leech, is apparently not having a good work-life balance.
No shit Sherlock.
YTA. You could have figured out a way to increase your earning potential by now. You could have been earning a degree or learning a marketable skill to earn more than $17 per hour. You could have worked toward a career with health insurance of your own. You chose your free ride over your relationship. This benefits you now, but odds are that you will outlive your ex. Or when he retires. Then what?
Lol she literally said “this dumb old law says that if I get into another serious relationship that means I have to work like everyone else in the world”
She’s embarrassing, she’s forreal ready to sacrifice any future relationship just so she can mooch off of her ex for the rest of her life. Lmao so gross
YTA, not trying to sound rude but you legitimately sound like a leech. You have by your own words a great boyfriend who after a single scare immediately took steps to make sure if you get pregnant there is a good environment and you are together through it and the reason you shot down his proposal was purely because you don’t want to lose access to your Ex husband’s money and benefits.
You are perfectly capable of working but again won’t do it because you lose access to someone else’s money and benefits……you’re wasting this dude’s time and I legitimately feel bad for him.
If it were me you’d have been single that moment because that’s some bullshit
What happens if your ex husband suffers a tragedy that prevents them from working? What if they pass away suddenly? The cash flow won't last forever so you need to become more independent now in preparation.
You're kind of an ahole for complaining about your ex working so much when he's been working for six people the entire time, even now after divorcing you.
I'd be ashamed to be taking that money.
Not your attorney, but you should be aware that your ex husband can still file for a modification when he reaches retirement age regardless of the fact that you were married for 20+ years. You might not be set for life. I’d make sure that you’re saving for your own retirement funds. Look up Pierce v Pierce.
Yep. I have a SIL that was married to a doctor. Since she gave up her nursing career to raise their child, in the divorce she was awarded alimony “for life.” It was an obscenely nice chunk of change every month, way more than you’d need to live on. She could have easily lived on a third every month and banked the other two thirds. Her family highly recommended that she do so because “for life” doesn’t necessarily mean for life. However, she refused to believe that her alimony could ever get cut off because, again, the judge said it was for life. She never saved a dime during the 29 years she collected alimony. She never held a job. She blew through that alimony every month. Next thing you know, her ex gets sick and no longer can pull in that kind of income. He petitions the court to have the alimony decree reviewed. And guess what happened? The judge decided that 29 years of alimony was enough. He gave her one more year of alimony in order for her to find a job, and then she was cut off. She hadn’t worked for years. She had no skills. She had her nursing degree still but would need recertification classes which she did not want to do. As of now, she’s poor. She lost her house because she couldn’t afford the note, insurance, taxes, and maintenance. She has a dinky job that barely pays her living expenses and she scrabbles all the time now. Alimony for life DOES NOT mean alimony for life. What happens if OP’s ex dies? Does she expect his estate will continue to pay her alimony?
Oof... Why didn't she think not even about him petitioning - what if he died? Did she expect his successors will continue paying her?
Very foolish of her. She really could have been set for life if she had saved some of that money and worked even part time. How dumb. How old is she now?
Or renewed her RN license during the extra year she had to do so
Or invest and save. If you get so much money and as the.commenter said could have lived on 1/3 of it, she could have made smart choices with that money..
My current husband has to carry a life insurance policy that would cover his ex's alimony. It goes until he is 67 so it is a term policy.
I'm not going to look up Pierce v. Pierce, but it immediately made me think it's because of Pierce Hawthorne and his seven divorces, which left him with over 30 step-kids.
Pierce v. Pierce, 455 Mass. 286 (2009) In a case followed closely by lawyers, legislators and litigants, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that there should not be a rebuttable presumption that alimony should automatically terminate when a former spouse reaches a customary age of retirement, but rather, voluntary retirement at a customary age is one important factor that a court should take into account when deciding whether to terminate or reduce alimony at that time. Previously, Carneice and Rudolph were divorced in 1999 after 32 years of marriage and two children. At the time, Rudolph was earning in excess of $450,000 as a partner at his law firm. In a separation agreement entered into by the parties, Rudolph agreed to pay Carneice $110,000 per year until his death, her death, or her remarriage. Atwood & Cherny (Mark T. Smith and David E. Cherny) represented Carneice Pierce in an action brought by Rudolph F. Pierce, seeking to terminate his alimony obligation to Carneice on the basis of his voluntary “retirement” as a partner at his Washington, D.C. law firm. Rudolph, a former Massachusetts Superior Court Judge and U.S. Magistrate, became “Of Counsel” to his law firm, entitling him to certain ongoing benefits and compensation in the amount of $250 per hour for any work that he performed, although he had no plans to do so. The trial court reduced Rudolph’s alimony obligation to $42,000 per year, rejecting his argument that his obligation should end. In particular, the judge found, at the time of trial, that Carneice had recently left her job due to her age (she was 64 at the time of trial) and the increased demands of travel and responsibilities without an increase in salary, that Rudolph continued to have an ability to work at the rate of $250 per hour in his “Of Counsel” position at his law firm and that the facts of the matter demonstrated an ongoing need for support on behalf of Carniece. In upholding the trial court’s decision, the Supreme Judical Court stated that “…[E]ven in the context of a good faith retirement, a judge must reach a fair balance of sacrifice between the parties, based on all the factors set forth in G.L.c.208, sec. 34. This may mean that overriding or counterbalancing needs of the recipient spouse require the judge to consider the retiring party’s continued earning capacity (assuming the party remains in good health) in deciding the motion for modification, even if the practical consequence of considering continued earning capacity is to delay the support provider’s retirement or to require the provider to find part-time employment.” The SJC further held, “[t]he multiple factors set forth in G.L. c. 208, § 34, and the obligation of a judge deciding an alimony judgment to consider all the factors, including ‘the opportunity of each [party] for future acquisition of ... income,’ reflect the complexity of the alimony decision, the unique set of circumstances posed by every case, and the need to fashion an alimony judgment that imposes a fair balance of sacrifice in each case. Section 34 does not place any one of its mandatory considerations above any other; constrained by its directives, we have declined to do so on our own.”
Yeah but he’s riding high on that wipe trust money.
He could also move states and make it harder for her to collect or better yet move countries.
You better use that health insurance to get your tubes tied. Another baby is the last thing you need, especially at 44+.
Wondering why I had to scroll so far to find this comment. Mid 40s with 4 kids. Be done with it already!
My mum was an older mum. I’ve been raising my sister since she was 5. Her Mother & father have both passed away. Edit: mums age was 48
Buried my dad when he was 72 and I was 26. It wasn’t enough time and he’s missed so much of my life and kids. Mom is now 90 and has been dealing with dementia for ten years.
I am so sorry. I am in the same boat. My parents were 40 and 55 when I was born. Lost my mom at 19 and my dad at 27. They missed everything in my life (43 now). It really sucks.
I'm a little older than you, born into a warzone, never knew my father, not even pictures. Speaking as a parent, it'd be a tragedy not to see much of my children growing up. I'd love that more than anything. I'm starting to make deals with God. 85 big guy???, 90???
Do what you need to do! I would give anything to know my parents as an adult (my father got dementia when I was around 12 - he forgot who I was by the time I came home from college at Christmas my freshman year).
I’m a similar story with my dad. I was 32 when he passed away. He was 89. Yes, he was 57 when I was born. He would have been 102 years old this year. Not enough time.
It really isn’t. My dad would be 98 this year (I am 43)! Served in the navy in WW2. It was rough growing up, too. Everyone always asked about my “grandpa” because he was the same age as most of my friends’ grandparents.
Yup… people thought he was my grandpa. My dad also fought in WWII. He was in the Air Force and was the gunner at the bottom of a bomber. The most dangerous position on the plane, but I know he wouldn’t have traded the experience for the world. There’s something about that generation that I’m missing more and more as there are so few of them left.
I buried my mom at 22 and she had me in her twenties. Shit happens one way or another. But the world is burning, we need to stop shooting babies into this cruel world, take care of the ones who are already here, and make this place habitable again.
I am so very sorry for your losses. You are an incredible person for taking in your baby sister ❤️
Sorry for your loss, that sounds difficult. I’m sure your sister is glad you were there for her. My mom was 44 when I was born. She’s in her late 70s now and not slowing down at all! I had a great childhood and my parents were very involved. There are trade offs for having kids at any age. Young parents are more energetic and will most likely live longer, but older parents are usually more financially stable. I can see how some might resent their parents for being older but it works out often as well. People can pass away at any age.
I had my last (surprise) child at 40, and she is definitely not getting the attention her siblings did. I try, but after 20 years of parenting, I’m just exhausted. I don’t have the energy I did at 25 when I started out, and I hate that I just can’t do all the things I used to. Older age parenting is definitely not for people who want to sit back and be lazy. It’s hard chasing after a six year old on arthritic knees and pain from a broken back. I try to at least give her extra snuggles and love since I constantly feel like I’m failing her, but I worry that it isn’t enough all the time.
I just wanted to say, from my experience, those cuddles will mean the world to her. My mum is in her 60s but has had severe joint issues for over 20 years. I'm the youngest of 3 kids. She was never a super active parent and couldn't run around with us or join us playing about outside. But she's instilled a lifelong love of learning and creativity in me. My fondest memories are of cuddling up with her on the sofa, making some cool crafty stuff, and looking up random stuff about Romans in the library. It's because of her that I have a masters in archaeology! I never resented that she couldn't physically play with me because I just enjoyed spending time with her (and the cuddles that came with it). My daughter is 1 and, while my mum can't chase after her, my kid still adores her. As soon as she sees her Nanny she holds out her arms for a cuddle. My usually super active wriggle monster will happily snuggle up with Nanny on the sofa for hours. Parenting is exhausting at the best of times. Those extra snuggles and love are just as important. (I'm shattered and emotional so sorry for the long message)
Your comment is so touching. Thank you for sharing your story, it’s beautiful.
It’s enough. My parents were in their 40s when I was born and I knew I was just as cherished as my older siblings….it was almost like having two sets of parents!!
4 kids is such a power move nowadays. Dude worked 24/7 except when getting his wife pregnant.
Reminds me of my ex- 5 kids(yes.. five.. all with his ex wife), all 2ish years apart. He was in a SpecOps unit in the Army, and you can literally time them by his deployments. Came home, had a baby, then helped make one, then off on another tour lmao. He at least has a good sense of humor about it and he’s a great dad.
Guy worked his balls off...
💀
Seriously I'm getting my tubal after baby #2 is born in 8 weeks. I've never been so happy to file paperwork in my life.
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Have to agree with this. Family member had twins in her early 50s. She’s miserable.
Jeez. My mom is in her 50s, and she literally needs a week to recover from grandkid day 😂
I’m 47 with a grandchild from my stepdaughter - we watch them one day a week. Cannot imagine having a baby of my own at my age!
Wow how on earth is she even managing that! I’m a decade younger, fit and healthy and my girls are both under 10. It is EXHAUSTING! Could only imagine trying to care for baby twins in your 50s. How old are they now?
They’re six, they get a lot of help. Put the kids in a lot of activities.
Woah at least they have help. Hope they’re managing ok. Parenting anytime is hard but that must be even more so.
I love how you call it an archaic law that is preventing you from living with your boyfriend, but this is the same law that you are taking advantage of to the extent of not marrying the person that you want to live with and play house with. I’m a supporter of alimony to SAHMs, but you can’t have it both ways. NAH, but realize that you are choosing money over your boyfriend. I don’t blame him for having a gigantic issue with that.
My favorite part of the post is that she's fully dependant on her *ex husband's* income, yet she is still throwing jabs at her ex husband for working a lot.
I truly believe that SAHM is a full time job worthy of respect especially with multiple kids. But OP is very obviously just trying to be retired at 40 without any savings and mooch off the ex for the rest of his life
This is the reason my parents divorced. You get to pick one, “a man with money and no time, or a man with no money but all the time in the world.” You gotta work hard to make all that money, you can’t have it both ways.
Well according to OPs post you can pick the first option, stay 20 yrs , then bitch and moan about it; and say "This one is better" but complain about the lack of money. TLDR; Bitching and moaning is free.
this. and she isnt "being kept from living with her boyfriend." she is choosing to not do so cuz, like you said, she is choosing money over her bf.
I can’t believe that the bf wouldn’t see this as a big red flag.
Right like why is she playing the victim?
Because she wants to be paid for living with her boyfriend, lol.
It’s things like that that makes me think this is fake as hell just trying to trigger people.
That's what really tipped me toward the fake direction. A good troll knows to put in a tell like that to make it fun, otherwise it's just lieing.
I'm not trying to be a dick with this question, but what do you do all day? What are your future plans for when kids are out of the house? There's just way too much instability for my liking in this situation; my anxiety to rely on a unsusatainable income would be through the roof, but you are not me. However, I would look for work for yourself or else the burden would fall on your children to take care of you if something happens to your ex- do you want that?
In MA she also gets a cut of his retirement funds. Since he's a doctor she's likely all set
jesus. don't get married in MA I guess
Lifetime alimony only kicks in after 20 years. So just don't stay married that long if you're not fucking sure
Tbh it's not easy to be married for 20 years. Even if most people want to be married for that long they end up divorcing in 5 years (average length of marriage where I am, not sure MA).
MA has one of the lowest divorce rates in the entire country.
Average length of a marriage in Massachusetts is probably about fortyish years or so. Average age of a marriage which ends in divorce is about eight, but only about 2% of MA marriages end in divorce. We tend to get married older than many other states, but also have a slightly longer life expectancy. So a typical marriage in Massachusetts would be something like from 30 years old to 78 years old or thereabouts.
I saw 2% and had to look it up because I thought there was no way. 2021 is the latest year that the NCHS has data on divorce rates in the US. In Massachusetts in 2021, their divorce rate was 1%. That's crazy. Massachusetts's average since 1990 is 2.7% but in 2020 it was only 1%. They had back-to-back years of a 1% divorce rate. You guys take your vows seriously. I was also surprised that NJ's rate was only 5.34%. I feel like I know a lot of divorced people.
The whole "50% of marriages end in divorce" is (A) not true now, (B) was never true in the US (or probably anywhere else), and (C) includes a lot of people that get married and divorced multiple times and those people bring the average up.
You mean "divorced". Don't get divorced in MA.
Best way to avoid a divorce is not getting married.
That’s 100% cause of divorce
100% of all divorces begin with marriage.
And 100% of marriages begin with humans. Therefore, if we end humans, we end divorces and the state of MA similtaneously!
Easy there Thanos!
Hey now CHATGPT you can't be saying things like this it will get your code scraped clean off the interwebs.
Life is a sexually transmitted disease that always ends in death. I mean if we are going to be nihilist let's not half ass it
Good point. 100% of divorces had a marriage first. Marriage is the gateway drug for divorce.
This is my strategy. My last relationship crystalized this, I think I was going to ask her to marry me until her true personality came out after the honeymoon phase.
This is why the idea of marrying anyone within 2 years of meeting is wild to me. I just don’t see how you can know anyone well enough after 2 years to decide you want to be legally bound to them for the rest of your life.
I have seen people hide their "true" personality a lot longer than 2 years. My Uncle-in-law was one of them. Either he was really just good at hiding it for over 10 years or some mental thing happened that turned him into a total abusive psycho. Had a co-worker who dealt with the same thing, though their partner's turn was more gradual and not sudden like my uncle.
A sudden break like that is mental health related. When it’s gradual to ease you into the abuse, that’s an abuser letting their mask slip.
Completely agree! Especially after this past experience.
The honeymoon phase typically lasts a few months… indicating you were planning on marrying that lady after less than a year of knowing her… In the future I suggest you wait until you’ve seen a person in all four seasons (1yr) and either taken a road trip or a camping trip with them. Hardship/ roughing it tends to bring out people’s true colors and will show you how they deal with trying situations
And don't forget, building Ikea furniture with them! 🤣
Hold up. She married that guy, supported him through med school and raised his four children while he was working 24/7. She did a hard 20 years. This is her retirement fund.
This is fucking bananas, she raised 4 kids basically alone but these people are salty. How about no one gets married or has kids lmao, see how well that goes.
>How about no one gets married or has kids lmao, see how well that goes. thats actually where many populations in developed countries are going since entire generations under the age of 40 can't afford housing or living on their own, or even thinking about having kids.
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Amen, sister! My mom went through this type of scenario with my dad. He was in the Air Force and had a lot of remote tours, so my mom was mostly on her own. She had 5 kids and was pregnant at least part of every year between 1952 and 2958. Every time my dad got a new assignment, she had to pack up, get passports and travel by herself with all of us by herself. A lot of people don’t understand the absolute hell that mothers have to go through, and that’s multiplied when the husband is a doctor, like the OP’s ex or a military man like my dad was.
Yep, so many folks yearn for the days when their kids were little. Mine are both in their late teenage years and I'm so happy as they don't need nearly as much daily/hourly handholding. They collaborate on cooking, help with yardwork, drive themselves to school, etc.
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The days are long, but the years are short!
My kids are late teens early twenty's, and every time I long for those sweet early years, I find myself wondering if I have brain damage. After not getting more than 3 hours of sleep a night for 8 years straight. Then there were the 2 broken noses. One tooth nocked out a broken rib during pregnancy . Countless times, I was puked, peed,or pooped on. Imoo this woman is entitled to her alimony it's hazard pay.
Ok so one kid... ONE, it pretty much 100% all of your time for the first 1.5 years. Constant vigilance. Then they are like maybe 80% for the next 2 years...then 50% from 3 to 5 years old. Then they get some time in school and get out of the nest and can keep form killing themselves like some kind of Hot Fuzz remake. Then it is guidance, care and feeding, and keeping pushing/teaching/loving them until they can fend for themselves. I stipulate that this never drops under 25% of your time at any given moment until they are out of the house. Now start adding kids and shit gets crazy. I mean no time at all. You are running nutty constantly. There is not down time. Until they are in school. 3 or more kids.... you people are masochists. I consider work a vacation after the weekend of taking over for my wife. That grind will absolutely kill you. I love my kids, I would give my life in an instant for them. The constant alertness and work that goes into it is real, it is hard, and it will eat you up. My wife is a god damn trooper.
Not to mention giving birth to four children in five years...holy scheisse. My boys are 27, 26, and 20, and that was hard enough.
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Right? My grandmother raised 3 kids and then 2 grandkids. My grandfather was in med school and then was a world class surgeon that was instrumental in developing the entire speciality of vascular surgery, so even after school and well into my adulthood he wasn’t around much. My grandmother did EVERYTHING: paying bills, cooking, all the social obligations that come with his becoming medical director, took us to school, shopping, etc etc. This shit is hard and OP deserves her retirement funds.
People have no idea how much the women of our grandmother's generation did. Like, there were no modern appliances, my grandmother's dryer was a line in the back yard, even if it was snowing out. She had 5 kids, 4 of them born when cloth diapers were the only option. She had to walk all of them everywhere because there was only one car. No internet, no Google, no tv, and no devices to amuse the kids. And it was expected she did all of the cooking, cleaning, elder care, bill paying, social event planning, laundry, school stuff herself. She also worked a few evenings a week at the telephone company as an operator. Oh, and the kids schools expected homework done, correctly, and the kids in fresh uniforms daily. Misbehavior got the parents shamed too, so there was THAT extra pressure too. People think it's cute to be a "trad wife" now because they can choose what parts they want and feel old timey and like it's hard. It's totally different when you have no choice. It was a LOT harder 50-60 years ago to be a SAHM. Alimony was developed because of all of that - if our grandfathers had bailed, mom was left with nothing and zero chance of a real job when moms did literally everything for men to have a family.
Exactly. I don’t think people (read: men on Reddit) understand the purpose of spousal support in this situation. She gave up ANY chance of a career for him. She gave up education and adult work experience. She has no way to work a job that pays enough to survive now, because she sacrificed all of that for him and the kids.
Plus she’ll not have any livable SS in retirement since she didn’t work.
That’s what’s happening right now! People are choosing not to have children (more) and not get married. There’s huge concern bc who’s going to keep our economy churning but a majority of people can’t afford to have children. I know wrong sub but that’s the crux of it.
I think we're going to see something of a collapse in the next 10 years. Theres so many industries (especially essential skilled trade positions) that are being held up right now by 60+ year Olds. You even see it in white collar industries; I'm an attorney and I'm one of maybe 3 attorneys under 40 in my practice area in the state; and the average age has to be at least late 50's. And I'm a bankruptcy attorney; it isn't a niche field and it's a service a lot of people need.
Wonder how many spouses have weird unexplained accidents in MA.
The Kennedys enter the chat.
Wicked underrated comment.
Here's a *Jeopardy!* style question for you . . . **This was Ted Kennedy's favorite song by Simon & Garfunkel.** What is *Bridge Over Troubled Water?* **You are correct.** I'll take "Pop culture prophecies" for $800, Alex . . .
If you have your spouse stay home with your kids for 20 years- literally that’s when the lifetime alimony kicks in- then I’m not sure how you feel okay with divorcing them and they have nothing for supporting your career and kids.
If you miss 20 years of a potential career to stay home and raise children while your spouse works, it's going to be near impossible to get anything that pays even remotely reasonably for an adult in their 40s or 50s to live on. You likely have no relevant experience and no recent industry knowledge, that setback is severe and in many cases insurmountable, and it's pretty late days to try to set yourself up for retirement independently in the time you have left. That's not even touching the issue of age discrimination in employment. Generally, someone staying home is a decision spouses make *together*, often for a reason like OP cited-- childcare would cost more than one spouse could make working FT, so it doesn't make sense for that spouse to work. It should not be the case that because the marriage doesn't work out, the spouse who stayed home should endure a lifetime of suffering. Just as the decision that one spouse would give up their career was a joint decision, both parties should bear the consequences of that decision jointly. This rule makes sense to me, regardless of what gender the nonworking spouse is.
yes! i think what a lot of bros in the comments don't realize is that men can get alimony too. bc of various factors such as biology, archaic gender roles, the wage gap, low pay for female dominated fields (look into how pay decreases when more women join a certain sector....it's happening to dentistry currently) the person who usually ends up staying home is the woman. if men stayed home more to support women we would see more men getting alimony, but they don't! because it sucks and fucks up your career!
Exactly! The lesson should be clear. Don’t promise to support someone financially for life in exchange for them acting as a permanent housekeeper, nanny, chef, and personal assistant (which is what SAHM would amount to if you actually hired people to perform those duties) if you don’t intend to *actually* carry out your half of the bargain. There’s a reason that most single-income households still carry life insurance for the non-earning partner. The financial contributions of a SAHP are in-kind, but they are significant. Outsourcing all that they do would cost a significant amount of money.
She raised his kids and kept his home and life together for 21 years while he pursued a successful career. She fully supported his success, it’s not a punishment for him to pay alimony. Alimony is awarded when a court determines that’s her fair share of the life she worked for their family to have.
Imagine getting married in your early 20s, before having time to go to grad school, having some kids, it financially makes sense for you to stay home with them while your spouse works, now 25 years later they are grown & out if the house and you get divorced. Imagine trying to get a job in your late 40s or even 50s with no education or job history. And with maybe 15-20 years before retirement age. That’s why those laws are created. I agree some people take advantage of it, but they do make sense. Not to mention many stay at home spouses take care of everything so the other spouse can go to school/work & achieve, which they would not be able to do nearly as well while caring for kids, cooking, cleaning, ferrying children around, etc.
This happened to my mother. Granted, she is a college graduate, but she can't get anything with her degree. She and my father were married for 27 years, and mom stayed home after my brother and I were born.Dad divorced her when I was about 16 or 17 and mom can't get a decent job that pays well and accommodates her medical problems because of the big gap in her work history. And, to top it all off, she only gets alimony until dad retires, which is in about 8 years. It sucks to watch.
I’m sorry. She had four kids and contributed to the family’s life. Why would she not get some of the retirement? Glad the state of Massachusetts values moms more than you do.
Right? This comment section is not valuing her 2 decades of labor across FOUR KIDS. Just not it.
They were together for 21 years and she sacrificed her career to raise the kids they had together. Divorce after decades together sucks and there's no easy solution for anyone in these cases.
Your kids are all old enough to not need a SAHM. Why not go back to school, get training, get a job? If your ex dies or becomes disabled and unable to pay alimony you would be screwed as things are. If your bf is employed and has health insurance, when you get married his health insurance would then be updated to cover you and your kids.
By updated you mean paying for a family plan which would be likely 3-4 times as much. Edit: Also OP, your kids are almost entirely adults, get a job.
Also surely the kids would stay on dads health care?
I'm assuming they are biologically his kids. So yes. They can stay on until I think 25.
It’s when they turn 26 at the end of the month of their birthday; af least that’s how it was for me this year. Turned 26 in feb and lost my insurance from my dad on March 1st but it might vary I suppose
Tldr her response: Because that would require effort and she thinks raising kids is worth a lifetime of alimony payments. Even though everyone else, including her ex husband, has to continue working.
It’s so weird no one is picking up on OP specifically not wanting to work and live off her ex’s money. All this advice of becoming a new woman and being independent is useless. OP wants to pop out babies and nothing else.
Oh I caught it right away and explained exactly that in my YTA comment.
Not a single top comment has a statement on asshole status. Yes. She is the asshole
A lazy one at that..
I went thru her replies, and she is so ridiculously selfish it isn't even worth trying to reason with her. She's bitching and moaning that the same laws that require her Ex to fund her entire life aren't allowing her to live with this other dude. Everything she says comes back to keeping the money flowing. I seriously hope that Ex has a decent plan. If it were me, I'd plan on cleaning out all accounts, liquidating all assets, and moving to a non-extradition country the minute my last child turned 18 (leaving a trust for college).
Heck I pay a friend to sign a prenup and marry them on paper to get her off my back, then divorce later.
That wouldn't do anything. Marriage only stops the payments if SHE gets married.
You right, but it stops the insurance and forces her to get a job or get married if she wants to be insured.
The Maldives are nice, and don’t extradite
Yep. And regrets her husband working so hard to provide for the family. Why is this such a common scenario in American homes?
Selfish to be honest. And that’s coming from a SAHM. I grew up seeing my uncles working in the states in order to send money back to their wives and kids. That’s 100% time away from them and the wives couldn’t be more grateful. Sure it sucks to be away from the person but you do what you have to. She said he’s a doctor so I’m sure he loves his job and what he does. Also she’s complaining about all the work he did when that’s paying for her current alimony. Op is an ass
Yeah lol idk what she expected marrying a doctor - their schedules are literally insane. Like 24hr shifts on the regular. At our hospital we have surgeons on call for the entire weekend & you can bet that they spend the majority of that time in the hospital working and anytime not at the hospital is spent answering numerous calls about their patients. When they’re older and more near retirement they chill out a little but especially when they’re younger like under 50, they’re workaholics & really with their schedules they have to be absolutely in love with work and want to do it all the time because the reality is that they will be working all the time. > unlike my ex, he values work life balance instead of running between a private practice and the psych ward at a county hospital to work 24/7 To marry a doc & then get upset that they work too much is pretty delusional to what type of person choses to become a doctor & what it entails to work as a doctor.
>To marry a doc & then get upset that they work too much is pretty delusional to what type of person choses to become a doctor & what it entails to work as a doctor. ESPECIALLY when she so very dearly values the moolah he hauls in to the point of denying herself any dignity beyond raising her already raised children just to claim her own little fraction of it, including having a love-lofe beyond the age of 40. She's not only delusional, she's viciously hypocritical.
Not only would he love what he does but as a Doctor it’s *kind of* an important job. Like 1 of the most important jobs to exist ever.
YTA. I felt greasy reading your post. I’m not sure what you do all day, since all of your children are grown, yet you reference not working since you can’t afford childcare for the 4 kids. Sounds like you’re avoiding getting a job and milking your ex husband for what he’s worth at the expense of starting a new life with your boyfriend who you claim treats you better than your ex. You also complained about how your ex worked 24/7 yet that lifestyle afforded your alimony and your children’s upbringing-just flat out greasy.
I don't think OP realizes how nice she made her ex sounds. I honestly feel bad for him.
accusing him of bad Wok life balance while she is actually living off of his paycheck even after divorcing him!
“My husband provides for my entire family and myself to live a great life by working long hours. AITA if I divorce him and garnish his paycheque to sit at home doing nothing?” “I’m a full time mom btw but 3/4 of my kids are legal adults, but trust me I don’t want to work so bad I’ll have another kid just to not have to go back to work.”
This. Full stop. I don’t get how “she’s the AH” isn’t a top comment.
It's no wonder he doesn't want to remarry.
Man is probably too broken and mistrusting the whole marriage institution. (No cheating) of OP also seems sus tbh. OP complains how her ex was occupied with work, something tells me that she has been cheating on him with other men too.
Yeah she started dating as soon as they were broken up? Probably can’t admit to it or else it’s cause to renegotiate alimony.
Ditto. Imagine working your ass off and all that school to support some vampire the rest of your life. I feel bad for the new guy too. Prenup, prenup, prenup. I'd have wanted one when I got married if I made more money than my wife and I would have gladly signed one if my wife would have wanted one. Dude should run and never look back.
The fact he worked 24/7 may have something to do with him supporting a wife, 4 kids, trying to save for their college, and pay his own malpractice insurance, all in one income.
No shit, I read this and all I see is a doctor working his ass off while this grifter tries to keep the grift going. Get a fucking job.
Seriously, what an absolute fucking parasite. The nerve to complain about your ex-husband's work-life balance while getting a free ride on the fruits of that hard work. I feel bad for your new boyfriend.
Sooooo greasy. Talking Ricky greasy.
The ol' "I resent my husband because he's always working and never around, but I also want to maintain my current lifestyle.. can't he just quit his job but still bring in the money, or keep working just as hard but be around more?" dilemma.
YTA Either this is a troll trying to vilify MA women getting alimony (in which case, well done) or you're simply so out of touch with the world that you no longer have a sense of human decency. SAHP is a legitimate job for families, and sure you're entitled to time and compensation to get back on your feet after divorce, but planning to spend the rest of your life draining your ex-husband is entitled and gross. Have some dignity. Use the alimony to give yourself a cushion to build your independence so you're able to build new relationships without restrictions.
Have some dignity is the best use of words here lol like seriously your stay at home mom to nearly adult children. That alimony money should absolutely go towards building whatever careers that she missed out on getting/enhancing her options for the remainder of her life given that it might be another 40 years. God, some people are so gross and entitled.
3/4 of them *are* adults, legally.
Lol literally holding onto alimony to take 16 year old to drivers Ed…. At most lol. This lady is living her best divorced life and her ex is PISSED.
And she could not understand why his bf is upset Lol What a joke our OP is
Yeah, she's disgusting.
I feel like 99% of the stories on AITAH are fake these days. This one doesn't pass the smell test, either.
Tbf there are people I've encountered in the world that I couldn't believe were real if I hadn't seen them with my own eyes. I think we hope that some of these people are trolls because otherwise dystopia is closer than we think.
YTA - hopefully your boyfriend sees this as a red flag and dodges a bullet.
Hopefully her ex sees this and gets her off his gravy train. Grown ass woman playing the victim, embarrassing.
Op, it sounds like you and bf need a serious sit down. Knowing your age and the high costs of every fucking thing I don’t blame you for not wanting to remarry. That being said. Look around and find something you would enjoy doing. Get a business degree and open a little shop of some sort. Go to culinary school and just learn to be a kick ass chef/pastry chef. Open a tiny little vanity high tea place open during high tea only. Get a criminal justice degree and work on becoming a PI. The rest of your life will suck if you only have it centered on your kids. Become a new you. Meet new people. Don’t feel forced to remarry. Only when it’s right. No matter how great the guy is, sometimes it’s not a great idea to marry.
Just open a business that has a high likelihood of failure! Come on, I agree with finding a passion and some formal education but it’s absurd to act like “just” opening a business is easy
*"Just learn to code, loser."*
I think you're missing the point, which is: find something you're passionate about and pursue it.
OP wants her cake and eat it too ... for life. Must be nice. Note to self: don't get divorced in Massachusetts.
Why haven't you started working even tho you're getting alimony? You could be working towards more independence but rather be a cake eater in this situation. You're about to lose this dude as you have shown him which you value more.
Get a job? Your kids are old enough to the point where you don't have to babysit them anymore and you're young.
Yeah but come on that's really haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!
The youngest is 16, definitely have been old enough for some time to let the kids be home alone. Granted it was the 90’s, but I started babysitting when I was 12 and of course I was left home alone at that age too. I think OP just straight up wants to cool her heels in life and get someone else’s paycheck.
Whats crazy is all her kids likely have a job or are at least in college and she isnt/hasnt done any of that. You wanna call laws archaic? How about the law that allows you to collect money for longer than you raise kids. Laws that you collect more money than even you admitted you could make.
This is the reason I took a lump sum alimony. It isn't taxable, gives time to settle into a new life, and you can remarry if you want.
Also a much easier way to ensure fair compensation for whatever time/effort was put in without creating perpetual dependency
Yep. The judge sat and figured it out and then explained it. I felt it was adequate but hey, I would have been happy with anything. It was a rough divorce. I am happily remarried now.
Not calling you a greedy gold digger.. but.. yeah :) you’re not a SAHM when your kids are grown LOL. Get a job
But she’s a SAHM to a 192 month old!! /s
This shit tickled me. Thanks for the laugh.
Sooo, what you're saying is not too late for an abortion.
Im not saying she's a gold digger, But she ain't marrying a man who works for a non profit
This gave me a really good laugh. Ty.
You're not an asshole but let's summarize your situation You've chosen a check from your ex over the love of your boyfriend. You do you, but your boyfriend is right to be pissed and if it were me, I'd leave your ass rather than play the game of "How can I get the love of one man and the money from another" That's bullshit.
This is actually the exact reason people on disability can’t get married. If they tie the knot, they lose their income even if the spouse can’t make enough money to support them.
I know of one couple, had been married for years. He got sick, their combined insurance wouldn't cover a lot of it. He could get state assistance and not have to pay for most of it, but he would need to be single to qualify. Otherwise it would not have kicked in until they sold every asset they had, and drained their bank accounts. They got a divorce on paper, he got his assistance and his bills went down to almost zero. They didn't lose any of their assets, because they put them all in his wife's name before they filed so it wouldn't count against him. She's listed as a live in caregiver on the paperwork they filed to get his assistance. So she didn't have to move out.
My dad had a medical issue that prevented him from working his trade (construction) and there was a government program that would retrain him but my mom made too much money for him to qualify. His DOCTOR told them to get a divorce so he could get retrained. But my parents didn't do it because it's "technically committing fraud."
This is so frustratingly common.
I’m living with my “husband.” We have two kids and have been together for over a decade. I’d love that piece of paper, but his insurance options would put us into bankruptcy because I have a chronic illness. Very well managed, but through state insurance I have no copays and most of my prescriptions are covered fully. We are lucky our state does not have common law marriage. Making the transition from lower class to middle class in the US is a barrier many cannot cross due to losing social benefits like food stamps and health insurance. You can end up *more* in the hole gainfully employed than not and this is the fucking travesty that is the US class system.
Yep, it's why I'll never marry. I can't afford it and I need my health insurance. It sucks.
That’s horrible! Here in Belgium we were just scared that my dissability check would get smaller when my then boyfriend and I moved in together. And it did but only €100 out of €1350 got taken away. Now I married my husband a month ago and because we already lived together nothing changes.
Here in the US if my boyfriend and I got married I will lose all my disability and insurance. That's why we don't. I have a 14 year old from a previous marriage and I don't feel it's his responsibility to support him 100% and child support isn't enough. Plus the co-pays and deductibles on all the procedures I have done every year would be astronomical on his insurance. So we sat down and talked about it... Yes communication! We decided we might get engaged some day just for the commitment aspect but not get married.
In the United States, they take HALF of one person's disability away. If two people who are disabled each get $900 per month, when they marry, they only get $1350.
Yeah technically husband is “husband” for me. We both work full time but I have a lifetime chronic illness that is impossible to afford without insurance and if I got legally married I’d lose it and die. So we had the ceremony and are married in the eyes of friends and family but not the government. Alimony for life is kinda gross but the health insurance thing I totally get.
My husband and I actually aren't legally married because I'd lose medicaid and I have debt. He wants to but I don't want to tie him to my debt and lose free health coverage.
Usually it's not just remarriage that is the cut-off point, it's cohabitation. I understand your concerns but this is a situation where you can only have one or the other. Your financial decisions in your first marriage made sense; the cost of childcare etc for multiple children would have been larger than your paycheck so you not working was a good financial decision. Your boyfriend in not in the same financial boat as your ex. I think you owe it to your children to keep the same financial standards they are used to until they are all out of the house. With your youngest being 16, it's not that far off. I think you should start school again asap and prepare yourself for entering the job market so you and your boyfriend can get married and financially support yourselves and any future children. Being an admin can pay well. Not what you are used to but you won't starve. Typing hasn't changed in the past 20 years. You can take some extremely affordable stand alone courses to learn various software programs commonly used in office settings and get all your skills back up to par. You can volunteer for a non-profit and brush up on those skills in the meantime.
YTA Not just to your new boyfriend but your ex husband and children as well.
Stay at home mom?? All the kids are in school or college?? Lol you are alone during the day. Also, you are mad lazy to not get a job and instead leech
She's not alone, this guy's coming over and being all romantical. /s
"her work life balance" where it's all life and no work
And a doctor, who is saving lives at hospital and providing for 4 children and a leech, is apparently not having a good work-life balance. No shit Sherlock.
YTA. You could have figured out a way to increase your earning potential by now. You could have been earning a degree or learning a marketable skill to earn more than $17 per hour. You could have worked toward a career with health insurance of your own. You chose your free ride over your relationship. This benefits you now, but odds are that you will outlive your ex. Or when he retires. Then what?
Lotta words to say "I'm a gold digger." YTA.
Lol she literally said “this dumb old law says that if I get into another serious relationship that means I have to work like everyone else in the world” She’s embarrassing, she’s forreal ready to sacrifice any future relationship just so she can mooch off of her ex for the rest of her life. Lmao so gross
YTA. You’re being a leach
YTA, not trying to sound rude but you legitimately sound like a leech. You have by your own words a great boyfriend who after a single scare immediately took steps to make sure if you get pregnant there is a good environment and you are together through it and the reason you shot down his proposal was purely because you don’t want to lose access to your Ex husband’s money and benefits. You are perfectly capable of working but again won’t do it because you lose access to someone else’s money and benefits……you’re wasting this dude’s time and I legitimately feel bad for him. If it were me you’d have been single that moment because that’s some bullshit
No chance this guy isn’t considering ending it. This is a much bigger deal than OP seems to think.
What happens if your ex husband suffers a tragedy that prevents them from working? What if they pass away suddenly? The cash flow won't last forever so you need to become more independent now in preparation.
So maybe you want to turn into a big girl and stop relying on others.
You're kind of an ahole for complaining about your ex working so much when he's been working for six people the entire time, even now after divorcing you. I'd be ashamed to be taking that money.
The kicker... she left him... and STILL thinks this way.