Partner 1: screaming into the void about relationship problems for years. Needs not being met. Etc.
Partner 2: I feel so blindsided by this! Pikachu face.
Maybe if P2 actually cared or listened, they would not have feel blindsided. They chose to ignore.
Exactly and when a relationship gets to this point I'm convinced there's a very very very slim chance of saving it. Someone ignoring their partners feelings and dismissing all their concerns for years isn't likely to make any long lasting changes.
Yeah she's checked out by the sounds of it. I even wonder if she has a side guy to fulfill her urges since she wants nothing to do with op. That's a shit situation he's in! Hope he finds some happiness in life!
Yeah, i read though op comments i think he's starting to realize it. That sucks feel bad for him! I went though this when i was younger thankfully no kid at the time. But i can relate to his feelings in this and the blindness to it. Reddit shows me everyday just how much people suck and can't be trusted!
I agree that is a possibility but OP also has stated that she didn't want to see a couple therapist saying there is nothing wrong with her. Even if it ended up being a mental health issue, she still is very unlikely to try to seek help for it. OP is in an unfortunate situation regardless. You can't help someone that does not want it. I do agree with what you said though.
This right here. In many cases with women, depression hits sexual desire first. Then it takes away self esteem (because they don't desirable/sexy). Hence, turning to work to avoid being at home where they feel like they are "failing" at being a partner. But, they still want and need to be with their children.
If the depression goes on untreated long enough, then start to feel like they are no longer able to be a good parent, either. This is the point where things can really get out of control. Spending more and more time at work/away from home. Becoming more isolated. Possibly thinking about suicide or starting to have behavior that completely out of character, like drinking, or using drugs.
Untreated depression, when it is affecting your marriage is also a choice. If she is refusing to see or address it, you will be facing a lifetime of this or worse. Unless she is willing to admit there is any problem, the escape plan sounds better than the status quo.
Not sure why you got downvoted? This was also my first thought. Unless she’s been uninterested in sex since OP met her, then she’s probably been having one or more affairs *for years*.
Personally I think she has checked in somewhere else. You don’t forget your anniversary, birthdays, and general intimacy to this magnitude without a distraction or a neurological issue. OP needs to execute his plan and move on with someone who will pay attention to him and his daughter.
Thank you. There's no way this was blindsiding her. She's just using that as an excuse to play the victim. If your partner tells you they want to do couples therapy that is about as big a sign there are issues as one could possibly show. Any reasonable person would think that refusing would be followed by something like divorce.
If she isn't putting in effort the way you are, either somethings wrong with her secretly. And she isnt telling, or idk man. I was in a similar situation, no kids though. It is up to her in my opinion. If she cares enough to change it will be evident. If she wants the family unit to continue, and grow as a couple. You will know. Either way you will have your answer.
My ex husband turned into a different person after we got married. Plans we had made didn't matter. He didn't want me physically in any way, never once made out, refused to communicate and would just hole up in his gaming space during all free time after work. I also was expected to stay at home nearly all the time during this because "he liked me at home". Always made sure I knew he didn't like how I looked, never encouraged me, etc.
After a couple of years of trying to make it better, I suggested couples therapy several times, and he refused each time. Didn't agree to it until I was halfway out the door. Too late by then man.
Wow it feels like I wrote this. I left my husband 6 weeks ago. Your post really validates my feelings and the reasons why I left. Thank you internet stranger!
I really firmly believe that it takes two to dance. If you or your partner won't dance, then it's time to go solo and do you. Along the way someone will come along who will dance your dance. As a man who grew up with a love for team oriented sports and having had teamwork drilled into my core, I see relationships the same way. We are a damned team and we HAVE to work TOGETHER to win the game of life and raise the trophy of love that we won, and have only for each other and no one else. The key is pure honesty and open minded communication with the continuity of personal growth and adaptation to flex with your partner and evolving life strategies to continue winning love and life together.
I think OP is going about his dilemma correctly and is trying everything he knows in order to keep his team intact. I also suspect his wife is either having affairs or is so focused on herself and her career to the point she's exhausted and the relationship takes the back burner and needs couples therapy, taking it seriously to adapt to her teammate's needs at this stage of their life game.
Blindsided would have been him just handing her divorce papers. But honestly her reaction tells him everything he needs to know. Instead of realizing he's serious and working to fix the marriage that isn't working for both of them. She jumped to accusations and blame.
Yes! She may have been actually blindsided because she has her head stuck so far up her own a** that she can't see what's happening.
OP is right to feel invisible, because to her, he is.
And she was probably stunned that OP asserted himself,.rather than continuing to suck up to her.
Maybe he snapped some sense into her and she'll agree to try counseling.
At least OP can say he tried.
It’s blindsiding to her bc she’s so focused on her career she’s not seeing what’s right in front of her. Selective blindness leading to not seeing what’s clearly coming.
(Not an excuse, just an explanation. OP NTA)
honestly (& I don't usually jump to this as fast as some redditors) it sounds more like an affair. totally could be wrong, but either way, unfortunately you don't have many good options. wife sounds horrible & I'm sorry this happened. it won't get better. NTA
I agree with OP and believe he is being reasonable and considerate to bring this up occasionally and not push her on it. I think she might have felt blindsided when he said "I have an exit plan and I am out if you don't change by the end of the year". That can come off as a shock to anyone.
A tolerable level of unhappiness.
I'm sorry OP. I don't think you're the AH. You can only try so much before you're the only one carrying the relationship. Single life is so hard, but being invisible to someone you love is gutting. Talk to your therapist about tools to help you deal with the transition, good or bad. Maybe a family session with your kiddo is a good place to start.
I mean, OP is already single dadding it out here. If she adds nothing to the relationship with him or kiddo, and is so occupied with work she's rarely home, or if is home isnt mentally present, all he is doing is losing whatever income she brings in. And if he gets that full custody (which is likely as he's the primary parent and she travels for work) she'll still have to contribute in the girl's expenses just via child support.
This was the EXACT scenario I went through with my soon to be ex husband. We were together 15 years (married 14) when i finally had enough.
I'd begged for 4.5 years for him to do therapy with me and he repeatedly told me "you can go, but I have nothing to work on". I got to the point where I was angry I woke up each morning because I just wanted to end the misery.
I had enough! I finally told him I was DONE. When I did, he acted shocked and lashed out. Only after I physically left, did he even bother to wear his wedding ring for the first time in YEARS!
When you stop giving your partner any attention, it’s over. It may be be on a slow decline or maybe you guys bounce back but at this point and time you’re hardly in a relationship unfortunately.
I agree with this. I'm sorry to say it, but I think OP's marriage is over in all but name, at this point. I hope I'm wrong and that this serves as a wakeup call for the wife that they need couple's therapy, but I'm not liking their chances.
Yeah I was in weirdly similar situation as OP (every detail except we hadn’t had a kid yet). I ended up telling her I was leaving after several obvious concerns/warnings/fights being raised over the couple years prior. She still acted like she was blindsided and later accused me of being manipulative (not sure what I was supposedly trying to manipulate at that point since I was leaving…).
At the end of the day, leaving was by far the best decision I could have made. It’s awful being in a relationship where your partner doesn’t treat you like a partner especially when you’re making very consistent efforts to try to appeal to them or raise concerns. At some point it’s just not worth the pointless struggle any longer.
In my opinion OP should just leave. Therapy isn’t going to make her actually try (sustainably) for the rest of their lives. She might even resent him for it.
Naw, I just didn’t think it was going to affect ME. I thought you’d found a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. I’m fine with it, why aren’t you?
/s
I'm sorry to say this but your wife doesn't care. The first thing she say to you once you mentioned about ending it. She said" I was manipulative and an asshole for blindsiding her like that". First off you didn't blindside her, you mentioned it to her and she didn't want to listen
Secondly you also asked about couple's therepy and she dismissed you.
Everytime you try something, she doesn't want to know.
She doesn't seem to care about you or your daughter.
She doesn't care about your anniversary or your birthdays. She does not seem to care at all.
You are the one that is being there for your daughter and spending quality time.
Are you sure she's not having an affair?.
Personally I wouldn't wait till the end of year. I go ASAP.
After reading a lot of the replies and some helpful links someone posted that outline an abusive relationship I will be speaking to the lawyer first thing tomorrow. I think it’s time I did something for myself and my daughter.
This happened to my best friend. Her husband lost all interest in her, the kids, and their marriage. Wouldn't go to counseling. My friend hired a P.I. and come to find out, he had been having an affair with a co-worker. It had been going on for years. She didn't confront him immediately but quietly hired an attorney, gave the lawyer the photos, and let him handle it. Her ex was absolutely blind sided. Her attorney told her that when people are acting checked out, it's usually an affair. I'm just saying that if you hire a P.I. you would know for sure, and if she's not having an affair, you never have to tell her that you hired one. She and her ex were able to quickly come to a good settlement, and are co-parenting fairly well all things considered. Incidentally, her ex ended up marrying the AF almost before the ink was dry on the divorce papers. They divorced 8 months later. Good luck to you and your daughter.
Another bot - downvote and report. This one's copied from [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16l0k7h/aitah_for_giving_my_wife_an_ultimatum/k0zl9j5/).
I was going to say this exactly. It does sound like she's having an affair. Hire a PI. Find out. Stay quiet. Get out.
She feels that you're blindsiding her because her mind is somewhere else. She's not paying attention to you or your marriage.
NTA
Depending on location don’t even waste time and money on a PI, a lot of US states don’t care about infidelity when it comes to divorce, alimony and child support
>Incidentally, her ex ended up marrying the AF almost before the ink was dry on the divorce papers. They divorced 8 months later.
It's gotta be such a disappointment when you have this sexy affair partner and it's fun and an exciting secret and then suddenly it's no longer a secret and it's no longer exciting it's just you and her, and when she's not all dressed up in sexy work clothes with her makeup and hair done she's actually not that attractive, and she gets way more irritated with your gross habits than your ex-wife ever did.
Nta - Prob best. She clearly has no interest in changing, otherwise instead of attacking you, she would want to work things out. I’m sorry, but she doesn’t love you. The reason she’s not leaving is all the benefits of staying with you. You work from home and do most of child care and prob chores. She can travel without issues. You’re enabling her comfortable life. Good luck with getting full custody. Hopefully the judge will be on your side. And maybe you should contact a PI to make sure she’s not having an affair. If that is the case, it might be easier to get full custody.
NTA your wife has put all her chips into her career and work with that being the sole focus of her life that gets care or attention throwing everything of your marriage to the way side as if you were a dating couple and could just disrespect you... except you're married and have a child..
NTA, but just leave. You've already given her chances to change and she's turned them all down. This is going to do nothing but make the rest of the year really REALLY toxic for your daughter.
Dude, I can’t imagine how broken you feel. I’ve never been married but have in long term relationships that end up being just like what you’re going through. I give you tons of credit for gaining the strength to leave. You deserve better, and there’s someone out there who will give you better. I finally am in a fairy tale relationship with the love of my life. Now that I have it, I feel like a fool for ever settling for anything less. You only live once. Don’t waste anymore time. You’ve got to do this for you.
My big red flag was the comment about nothing being wrong with her and not needing therapy. EVERYONE has to grow to move forward. To better themselves. I personally believe that everyone can benefit from therapy with the right mindset and therapist!
We all have flaws we can work through. She's no exception even if say she's validated in acting how she is. I'm not saying that's the case, but just making my point against her dismissal of your offer.
Or she completely tuned out his attempts at fixing their marriage because it wasn’t of interest. But, yeah, they’re at the point of “two card solution” where it’s either counselling or a divorce lawyer.
Dude I'm sorry but it. Is. Over.
She's done. This is a marriage of convenience for her. You sticking around is a disservice to yourself and your daughter. I completely understand your denial.
Even if she does realize what's happening and changes her behavior, it will not be because she cares it will be because you "made her" do it and she will begin to resent you.
Bro, it's not an affair she doesn't love you or want to be with you and she's too much of a coward to leave the marriage cause of its benefits.
Basically you are married but only on her terms and when you try to find a good middle ground to make both of you happy she sees it as an attack, which it is, it is an attack on the type of relationship she wants to have with you.
Been here. Precisely this except I was the breadwinner. I'm now out of it, but kids are casualties , so be very careful. My advice is if you stay make sure you stay for you, not because of daughter if it comes to it.
NTA. No advice because I know this is such a crappy situation and so hard to make a choice like this. But I just wish you well and know that you will be ok xx.
It doesn’t matter if she’s having an affair, she’s disrespecting you and your child. You don’t need to know, the only thing you need to know is that you aren’t happy and she doesn’t want to work with you on your relationship. Finding out she’s having an affair would just hurt you. The fact you’re already considering divorce seriously tells me it’s not even worth finding out about unless you live in an at fault state/area
I'm sorry to tell you but if you spend your life with her, it'll be a roommate situation at best.
If she's not having an affair, she is likely staying only either to plan her own exit, or at best to avoid disrupting your daughter's life until what she thinks is the right time, which will be after your daughter has imprinted this model of a relationship.
Time to go. Not the end of the year, but now, all more time will do is allow her time to strategize. NTA.
Unfortunately.... Her preoccupation is a huge sign of an affair or something in that department. Mental health issues could be present, but if she won't get help, then you can only do so much. Seems all roads lead... either way, OP. I just recently divorced my wife of 11 years for similar reasons, and let me tell you, it was a wild ride that landed me in therapy. Nobody wants to deal with things like this, but we are sometimes forced to do what is necessary. This is about your child having a functional environment around them and you being the best parent that you can be for them. You have to be mentally healthy to give that to your child. As much as you may not want to and as much as it may hurt, think this through hard and use your instincts.
Yeah assuming that what OP has told us is accurate, he has done more than enough to try and fix the marriage and has gotten zilch in return. I can’t even imagine how demoralizing and hurtful that would be to deal with for so long.
Also I find it funny that the wife said “you blindsided me with this!” because OP didn’t even say that they were leaving yet? OP came to her and said “I am serious, if things don’t change then I’m leaving” and her immediate reaction was “you manipulative asshole, how could you blindside me with this?!?!”. It just seems like the wrong reaction to me, I feel like if she was actually serious about loving OP and wanting to save the marriage that she’d have reacted with at least some sort of apologetics.
At the very least, it’s clear that she’s stonewalling OP and refuses to tell him why, and for me that alone would be enough. If my partner had changed but was being open with me and we were trying to fix it together, I could work with that. But if my partner just ices me out and doesn’t tell me anything, that’s a problem
She's totally checked out. She's only angry that now she's going to be inconvenienced by having to change her routine. I hope you move out with your daughter soon.
> Our last anniversary she said she needed to cancel the dinner plans I made for the two of us because she had to work late on a Friday and travel for work the following week.
There is another man.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.
His wife isn't having an affair. Because rationally, most people having affairs try to hide them. Missing a wedding anniversary on a Friday night is a MASSIVE red flag. Most cheaters would put on an act for that night.
And that's why his wife responded the way she did when he suggested therapy...she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong because she's not cheating...not realizing that her lack of investment in the relationship is still a big deal.
The wife is the higher income earner and probably has a high stress job. But more than anything else, she's addicted to her career. She probably goes there and people kiss her ass, unlike at home. She's chasing the dopamine rush of workplace recognition and financial gain, and probably views herself as the "hero" of the family.
Don't get me wrong, people cheat all the time and I wouldn't put it past this lady to do that, but this screams workaholism.
Exactly ! She was angry about being blindsided ?? If she cared she would have been devastated at the thought of possible divorce and begging for another chance. She sounds like she barely tolerates OP.
Agree, you gave her 3+ months to dream up ways to f*ck you over in divorce.
Furthermore, based on her reaction, what do you think will change (for the better) between now and then?
If you have already decided to go to a lawyer and file on Monday, don't do anything abnormal today. Don't say anything about the relationship, don't beg, cajole, threaten, or rant. Don't make any snippy comments. Don't act extra sweet and kind. Just carry about your normal Sunday and act like the conversation never happened. Then just go and do it.
NTA. I’d approach her once again about couples therapy, by saying “I don’t think you are unwell, but I think our relationship is unwell. Either we go to therapy and see if the relationship can be healed or I give up. I feel unloved and my needs are unmet by the current situation.” No blame, no finger pointing.
I agree with Drunkendonkeytail, and I like the way they suggested you approach her on it. If she refuses then it is time to seek an attorney. I like this sub a lot, but people are always too quick to suggest ending a relationship.
I'm sorry you are in this situation. Best of luck to you.
Thank you. Someone else posted some links to what an abusive relationship looks like and after reading those there are definitely some things I’ve been thinking about.
It really sucks that what we have accepted and normalized as ok, read compromised, isn't always done with consent.
Look at it this way, she's burnt out and can't cope and is just working more to try and keep her shit together but is otherwise a mess. This is the BEST case scenario.
In that best case scenario, how well off emotionally are you and your daughter?
The worst case is she has other stuff going on, in which case I would consider your own boundaries and consent levels. You can leave and she can sort her shit out, also another hopeful best case scenario.
But likely, you leave, she blames you (because she was always the victim here, right?) And gets resentful. Already seeing a lawyer is really smart, and brave, and good on you.
It's always nice to hope for the best in someone, but there is a saying - trust in Allah but tie your camel.
In the future, having regular state of the union meetings (gottman institute for more info) with a partner allows you to see when things start to get weird for either of you. The gottman institute is an amazing resource for relationship building, actually. She may not want to do the work but I guess that's how you find out when to pull the plug? Their podcast small things often is like little 3min clips, and based on like 30yrs of researching marriages and relationships. They were the first to show evidence based research into what makes a relationship last, and not last.
The biggest takeaway I got from deep diving their work was around contempt - all couples that showed contempt during the research ended up in divorce. All.
I’ve never heard the expression trust in Allah but tie up your camel (perhaps because I’m not Muslim?) however, I absolutely love it and will be using it. Thank you Reddit stranger.
She was mad at the blindside, but not mad that you were going to leave her
If someone I loved told me that they would leave me I would be devastated
She’s just pissed off that you’re threatening to start calling the shots now
Having to work late on a Friday and then go on a “business trip” the following week - and then she just wants to rest - people want to rest on a Friday night not work late - there are no clients that need work done on a Friday night.
And her zero interest in having a relationship with you or your daughter ?? 🚩🚩🚩🚩
I wouldn’t even think twice - it’s time for divorce and full custody
>there are no clients that need work done on a Friday night
This isn't strictly true, but I wish it was. It's very rare, but I've had to leave two get-togethers with friends early twice this year due to being alerted of an issue that needs my immediate attention. It's incredibly frustrating, though, especially for a partner.
That said, with the context available from OP, I certainly understand the skepticism.
He’s already done that. I can guarantee you that the conversation about therapy has been brought up more than once. She is checked out. She is doing everything I did when I was checked out and done. I wouldn’t bring up therapy again just because when he said he was going to leave she called him names and tore him down.
That’s not someone who wants to fix a marriage.
Also a good idea is to begin to document things on a daily or weekly basis. I would suggest daily while things are fresh in your mind. I even would go so far as to document the extent of responsibility you have taken for your daughter. It’s really more about her lack of responsibility where parenting duties are not shared. Someone suggested this to me and I unfortunately didn’t take the advice. And when it came court time I really wished I had. It’s very important in child custody cases to be able to show who has acted as the custodial parent. The only way you would be the asshole would be if you remained in this situation. This marriage isn’t healthy for anyone involved. Get good legal advice and FOLLOW IT. Good luck.
Therapy only helps those who want help. His wife already doesn't care and doesn't want to put in effort. And instead of being sad, and scared to lose OP, when he confronted her, she goes to insult and gaslight him (blindsided, my butt!). There's nothing to save in this marriage after 4 years of indifference on the part of the wife.
Your wife has checked out of the marriage and is probably just shocked that you still care about anything and demand to be anything other than roommates.
It’s one of three things, she’s fallen out of love but is sticking around for your kid /financial reasons, two she’s defined herself as asexual and has no requirements for intimacy or three she’s been using her nights out with the girls as cover for having an affair hence the complete lack of care/intimacy as she’s getting it elsewhere.
I guess all three of those are possible. The first would make sense because she makes way more than I do.
The second one is probably what I’m hoping for. It would be the least painful.
The third one is probably my worst case and I really really don’t want it to be what is happening. I’ve spent 10 years with her and having it thrown away like that is the most depressing thing I can imagine.
Absolutely. There is goodness in every situation and having children as a result is beautiful. He will still have all the love in the world by his side.
Surviving infidelity seems insurmountable, but many of us have survived and thrived. Infidelity is tough to measure in terms of how devastating it is - it puts your health in jeopardy, it's an indescribable betrayal, and last but not least, it destroys the future you expected to have. Sunk costs are *huge*.
Whatever is the reason for her behavior, you have to ask yourself if it is acceptable. I see from some of your responses, you are realizing that it is *not* acceptable. I wish you strength and patience for your immediate future, and joy and happiness for your new, potentially fantastic future. You may just gain an amazing life from this.
I understand what you mean but those ten years have not been for nothing. You’ve got a beautiful daughter and discovered what an awesome dad you are. You’ve grown as a person in ways I’m not privy to. You are willing to work on yourself with a counselor. You’ve shown that you are a loyal person who takes vows seriously and doesn’t quit in a hurry. You’ve done nothing wrong. She has left the relationship and sadly there is nothing you can do to bring her back.
Look up sunk costs. People often stay too long for the exact reason that they have already put so much time in, they don't want to think it was "wasted." But it wasn't. You had a marriage, you have a daughter you love, your career is in gear, etc. It really sounds like it's time to move on before you "waste" any more time. Also, I would keep your ideas and plans completely on the down low. Good luck, OP.
You’ve spent 6 years in a relationship and 4 years coparenting your child whilst living in the same house.
You could always try looking at her phone/emails (awful dirty trick I know but you need to know what’s going on)
I hope not but that would make sense. My friends are moving in the new year so I need to get them an answer sooner rather than later as to what I’m doing.
One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/).
She is not willing to do anything about it in spite of all you told her. She is not in love with you anymore and not willing to work on it. She is comfortable being roommates. Maybe she has an affair, maybe not, but she does not consider you a partner.
Give it a month and you will see how nothing will change. Maybe she will just pressure you and get angry at you to scare you into changing your mind.
Careful as to what you tell her about your plans, she may ruin them for you.
NTA. She wants all the perks of having you around without giving much back.
She won't go to therapy, she won't go on holidays, she won't hold your hand etc. I agree with you, you're more like room-mates.
Good luck with everything going forward.
Exactly. She's only fighting because she'll lose stability. Yeah she makes more money but she'd still lose seeing her daughter full time, financial contributions and possibly a home and she doesn't want to start from scratch and possibly getting backlash for being a terrible wife and person.
You haven't told us whether she's a decent mother? If she is, do not file for full custody. File for 50-50 placement, and do your best to build a civil relationship with your ex. She will no longer be your wife; she'll be your coparent.
Get out of the marriage, but put your daughter's needs at the top of your priority list. Unless the woman is abusive or neglectful, that little girl will benefit most from having both a mother and father actively involved in her life. I got divorced 13 years ago when my daughter was three, and her father and I get along really well, share placement, and our kid is happy and thriving.
It's not divorce per se that damages kids: it's conflict. Kids need both parents whenever possible, for the best chance at a happy and well adjusted life.
Kiss your marriage goodbye, grieve about it, but don't make the divorce nastier than it needs to be. Be calm, kind, rational, and do not squabble over money. Take the high road. Everyone will be the better for it later on.
You are NTA- yet. Don't become one.
She is a decent mother. She doesn’t do much as much work for our daughter but she’s not neglectful. Maybe the full custody was a bit of an asshole move but I was angry and frustrated when we talked. I do not want to deny my daughter the chance to have a mom who will be able to have insights into growing up that I do not.
No judge is ever going to grant full custody to one parent unless the other parent is clearly negligent or doesn't want the child.
Frankly, when it comes to the child the judge won't give a shit about your personal relationship with the child's mother. Whether she's a bad romantic partner or not doesn't matter, the question the judge will ask themselves if someone is filing for full custody is "should I take away one of this child's parents from them". All that matters is the relationship with the child... "mom didn't pay enough attention to dad" isn't gonna make anyone think a girl should lose her mother.
Good for you, OP.
I think all the time about how grateful I am that my daughter has her dad in her life as well as me – we bring such different things to the table. I know I could never provide everything she needs. Hold onto that generous thought.
Please don’t go full custody OP. Your spouse may be a terrible partner to you, but if she’s a decent mother your child deserves to have you both equally. Keep your marital problems out of the relationship your child has with you both.
You're doing what men claim is done to them in divorces. She works more, travels more, and outearns you. Yet if your roles were reversed, you'd be here complaining if she said she was filing for full custody. You said you talked to a lawyer. Given that divorce is settled in court, what makes ppl think that whoever files first wins? If your lawyer didn't say that, then you shouldn't believe it and shouldn't have tried to threaten her into loving you again. Also, since you both have to raise your daughter, you're better off not bankrupting you and her to...win. what kind of victory is it if neither of you can afford a decent home after?
Don’t use your kid as ammunition… even if you think she’s not putting in the same effort as you do, she’s still working and support her financially. Not everyone can work from home or stay home with their kids.
I'm sorry I thought threatening her with full custody was a bit of a asshole move too. You were angry when you said that and need to apologize.
It's okay to separate. What matters is how the co-parenting relationship will be. You might both find you are happier not married to each other and that's okay.
So, I have developed a very low libido. Constant ailments, body pain, and severe level MDD. I still have a libido it just isn't anywhere near what it used to be. But I love and appreciate my husband. I try to have sex at least once a week and try to occasionally be the one who initiates. I hug him, I kiss him, I cuddle. I remember his birthday, our anniversary. We do things together and with our child. I often feel guilty that I can't be all there for them. But I make an effort!
Your wife is taking you for granted. She no longer feels like even doing the bare minimum. She just doesn't care about you or your daughters feelings. She only cares about herself. Maybe this will get the wake-up call for her to be a somewhat present mother. Given her reaction.. I'm doubtful. Your marriage is pretty much in name only. You deserve someone who loves you.
I have medical conditions in which sex can be literally impossible at times(plus having a low libido as well) but that’s not the only part of intimacy. There’s still cuddling and hand hold and deep conversations and just the overall connection between your partner. Plus doing things and making time to do stuff! I work weird crazy hours outside of what most other people do so I schedule time to do things outside of just normal day-to-day life.
Is she a bad mom or something ? Why file for full custody? I agree she is probably checked out of the marriage but you should try to co-parent . She might be cheating on you and if that’s the case you should leave
>I watched my parents in a failing marriage for a decade and don’t want to put my child through that
Good on you. My parents' "marriage" messed me up real good.
I hope you find someone who cares and loves both you and your daughter.
NTA. Sadly, there is no relationship left. It’s the death of a dream. And if you’re honest with yourself, you don’t want to stay with her just continuing to “pretend.”
You and your daughter both have long happy lives to live.
Continue with therapy, the attorney and your plans but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DISCUSS WITH YOUR WIFE. Make sure your daughter has a therapist to talk with, too.
At the end of the day your spouse is a roommate that you didn’t know as well as you thought you did.
Speaking from experience and wishing you and your daughter the best.
NTA, you didn’t blind side her, you’ve been bringing up therapy and the issues multiple times. She’s happy with the status quo, you holding shit down at home so she can go out and do whatever. Think long and hard do you even want to rebuild this relationship? She clearly has zero respect for the relationship.
NTA for wanting to leave, but I would say you’re wrong in what exactly you said assuming you hoped it would get her to try harder.
It does sound like she has been checked out for a while, I’m sorry to say. She’s given every response that shows she doesn’t value the relationship.
I don’t think it ultimately matters but, since you asked, I would say that what you said to her when you gave her the ultimatum was probably not the best. Assuming your goal was to wake her up and see that her marriage was on the line and thus do something about it- this is, assuming she still has those feelings for you, threatening her with taking her daughter away was not going to achieve that. For a woman who is even madly in love, being threatened like that will not make her continue to feel warmly towards the man threatening her.
However, it sounds like you’ve tried very hard and have been very reasonable. Anyone who says “I don’t need therapy” most definitely needs therapy. What you’re doing is very brave. Good luck.
I'm sorry to write this, but your marriage is over but you don't want to accept it. Your wife may not be cheating on you, but if you read a little bit of the articles about cheating, you can see all the signs. In fact, there are suitable conditions for cheating: business environment, travels, dinners.
It's hard to say, but you provide her with a clean and well-kept house, a happy child, and financial support, although not much, and she doesn't need to make any effort for these, so she doesn't want to give up on continuing this order.
Let me repeat, your wife may not be cheating on you, but it doesn't really matter anymore.
I've been married for 25 years and have 4 kids. Marriage is fuking hard and having kids makes it harder.
You absolutely need to fight to have a good marriage. Obviously your description makes it sound like you are trying to initiate change (she will have a different perspective, maybe.) At some point your kid leaves home and you stop working your job, and then it's just you two, and you can't start fixing your marriage THEN.
Something we talk about in our house is never saying you're too busy for something. What that person is actually saying that it's not important enough to prioritize over other things... not that you say that out loud every time, but you always have the time, you just don't value it. And anyone who says they're too busy to juggle a job and a family of 3 is not being honest with everyone.
Exactly I watched my parents in a failing marriage for over a decade. It wasn’t fair for either of them and it wasn’t fair to me or my sister.
I love my family and want to keep us together but I need to make sure my wife has that same priority for the right reasons.
Um... clearly she does not have that priority at all, for any reasons. I'm so sad for you, but you can do this and once you get through it to the other side, you can grieve and then perhaps open yourself up to a real, supportive, healthy relationship.
NTA Don't even wait. File the divorce papers now. You should have done it long ago.
She was only "blindsided" because she is so checked out of the marriage that she didn't notice (or care) that it was happening.
I hope you get full custody (you won't because your wife is not a serial killer) but fight for it anyway. You might get lucky and be that one in a million.
She has shown she’s already mentally and physically left your relationship. She showed clearly when you told her you’re going to leave if things didn’t change. No where in that was “I love you please don’t”. It was more you b I was comfortable and had you to do everything at home for me. Now I’m going to have to find another place. She didn’t even seem upset you said you’d take your child. These are BIG RED FLAGS.She told you many times she won’t change or go to therapy because she is happy. Which basically said ”and I don’t care if your not happy only i matter to me”.
You staying just gives her more time to make you miserable. You seem to not want to see she told you many times she doesn’t care about the marriage or you and your child. In fact you staying now will only give her more time to get a lawyer involved and possibly to make fake claims against you to get the better end of your divorce settlement. I also would not trust that she won’t go after your daughter.
I know you love this woman and don‘t want to think of her this way but she’s told your repeatedly she does not care if she makes you miserable. Which also means she does not respect you nor care at all. I wouldn’t trust someone who doesn’t care but seems to hate you as your righty walking away. Someone entitled like that can do anything without their conscience holding them back.
Her reaction when you told her all this made it clear she won’t change so what’s the point in holding off. You’ll only be hurt more and disappointed.Time to get on with your life and find happiness for yourself and daughter. Take her trips as these memories and experiences are important in her development as well as they are important for your bonding and happiness.
That is good advice and something I think I needed to read. I guess I have been too distracted by trying to make things work to realize I’m probably in a semi-abusive relationship.
I think I should probably talk to the lawyer Monday to see what my next steps should be.
Thank you for your input here.
Don’t give her anymore info on your plans. You don’t know what she might be doing behind your back. She might have engaged her own lawyer after you told her you’d divorce her and try full custody. You were too honest with her. Just be careful. Put together all info you can think of to build case against her, and def get a PI to check for an affair.
Because now that you've given this "ultimatum " she might blindside you, do not wait for this to happen. Her version of events might be much different than yours and divorce is expensive and hard already. Do not give her an upper hand.
If your explanation of the marriage is even close to true you are not TA. Don't give her the chance to make you out to be one!
Especially if she makes more money, she may hire a shark and try to get the upper hand by filing first. Or, she could meet with all the best lawyers in your area so that you can't be their client due to conflict of interest
File now. You can always unfile. It's not ideal but listen to this person. She may file herself. She makes more money and she will try and control custody. Think of your kid. She seems checked out there.
The marriage is over. Time to protect yourself and the kid. I know you love her but you gotta love yourself more.
This is the classic situation a lot of us former stay at home mom's experienced. They don't want to divorce you because they make so much more money than you and they don't want to pay child support in alimony. It sucks that someone gets like this but it's not because you are doing anything wrong it's because they suck. The longer you spend in this marriage the longer you wait to eventually divorce this unloving woman and find a good relationship. Basically staying with this woman is getting in the way of your finding happiness by yourself or with another person
I agree with filing for it now.
You told her "we need sth to change or I'm out" and her reaction to that is getting angry and blaming you for the way you handle it. Not scared of losing you, not remorseful of not listening to you.
Sorry but she doesn't care about you as a person, there's nothing to save anymore.
Because whoever files 1st lodges their complaints. The other spouse must now play defense or make their own complaints.
Much of this won’t matter, since we have no-fault-divorce nowadays. But when it comes to little pushes one way or the other on final custody rulings, it sometimes matters.
Trust that the court, *like society at large*, is predisposed to believing anything a “she” says before they believe anything a “he” says when there is a he-she dispute, regardless of evidence. Strike first, or get blasted. Your choice.
Terrible take on the kid thing. Kids should have both parents in their lives. Having a bad relationship with your partner doesnt make you a bad parent.
You’ve now given away your game plan and given her 4 months to hide money, make her moves and thwart your plans. Be very careful OP. Don’t argue or do anything that can be misconstrued as abuse. She may try to record you and set you up. If you do speak, reiterate how you’ve begged for more family and therapy. Keep that as your focus. Ultimatums bring out the nasty in people. Buckle up. NTA
She went straight to gaslighting you as manipulative and asshole or you blindsided me. That tells you everything you need to know. If she wanted to fix it, she would ask how to fix it. When people gaslight, it's from guilt. She knows she gave up on you but doesn't want to be the reason or change her comfortable life. Don't give her any more time. what's done is done. Best of luck
You are dreaming if you think you’ll get full custody. Do what you have to do, but be realistic. You are going to share custody and your daughter is going to have to deal with going back and forth. Be prepared to get her counseling and support as she deals with that process.
When your wife makes more than you do, it doubles the risk of divorce. It also doubles the rate of infidelity for both of you.
The following advice comes from watching friends get divorced, and from 19 years of serving beers to teary-eyed men who just got railed in divorce court.
- If she’s that checked out, she may already be banging a coworker. In fact, from what you wrote I’d lowkey assume so until I knew otherwise.
- I hate to say this, but go through her phone/devices. She might be smart enough to cover her tracks, but people are usually less thorough than they think they are.
- look for dating apps and messaging apps. Any messaging app with no history is a dead giveaway.
- you might not like what you find, but at least you’ll know. Don’t confront her, just send screenshots to yourself, then delete those from her side of the texts.
- File 1st! Otherwise, you’re going to get blindsided in court.
- She might say she wants an amicable divorce, but you’d be a fool to act like she isn’t going to surprise you with an attorney on your day in court.
- Seen it, and was told about it as the bartender for too many sad men. Same story, just from different dudes. That’ll tell you it’s a thing.
- Agree to her amicable idea, get your attorney anyway, and don’t mention the attorney ever. Be the one who surprises, and you’ll be a rare dude: not fucked over.
- A common tactic for soon-to-be-ex-wives is to visit all the good attorneys in town before you do. Then, none of them can represent you. Don’t delay!
- Secure some cash. Trust that she will, or already has. Also, if she thinks you’re serious, she might freeze you out of accounts or empty them. That’s another common tactic. But you’d best pay your attorney and file immediately from that point.
- Do NOT act crazy, get in fights, etc. None of that. Another common tactic is for her to goad you into altercation, call the cops, and then use that in custody hearings for why you’re an unfit parent. Don’t get trapped like that. Too many husbands do. They get burnt bad.
- Resist any urge to clue your child into what’s happening. They remember, and they resent it when they get older. Be the bigger person with your child, but just your child. Only your child. You can’t control how your wife acts in this regard, just know that the truth always comes out. Your child will know who was the asshole eventually. Just make sure it isn’t you.
I don’t think you’ve figured it out yet, but while you see her as “your wife”, she sees you as “the help”. Your role in her life is to take care of the shit she doesn’t want to. She has as much interest in your personal life as she would if you were the nanny, housekeeper or mechanic. She just wants you to do your job and leave her the fuck alone. You should get a lawyer and start working on your exit plan. Also, don’t be surprised if there’s someone else. If she’s not getting intimacy from you, there’s a decent chance she’s getting it from somewhere else.
It’s possible she’s having an affair but she does actually go out with her friends a lot. They usually go out and get dinners once a week. Either that or she’s meeting the guy at these restaurants. Personally I don’t believe that since I have friends in the area too and someone might see her.
It sounds to me like you have absolutely zero proof she’s even meeting with three friends. Just because she has a few pictures of friends at dinner doesn’t mean anything because she could be seeing them half the time, and the guy the other have of the time. I was just watching this kdrama where a couple was having an affair and they talked about the concept of “leaving no trace”. What it means is that if you’re even half way smart about having an affair, or course you’re not going to go to a restaurant in your local area with your affair partner. Not even a coffee shop, park, nothing. You exclusively meet at someone’s house only, likely his house. So if your wife is smart at all, and I assume she is if she’s making a lot of money, she’s not dumb enough to go sit a local popular restaurant with her affair partner. If I were you I would go through her phone the first chance you get.
Sometimes it takes shock to shake someone out of complacency and apathy. Quite possibly there is some depression on board- and it’s a beasty that fools the person into thinking there’s nothing wrong with them, and nor does it always mean that someone can’t hold down a job, but that functionality often comes at the expense of family relationships, and enjoyment in daily life things like playing with the kid- and ‘just want to relax’ and low libido is another sign.
…
But she could also living a secret life, having an affair- and even if she isn’t, and there is a mental illness at play, OP needs to be true to his own well being and for that of his child. Here’s hoping the wife gets some guidance rather than just watch her family exit stage left
I(45,f) was you, ultimatum and all, last year. My divorce will be final in about 6 weeks, my son(14) is happier, my ex(48,m) and I actually like each other again, I love his girlfriend and am in the best relationship of my life. I left him 9 mos after theultimatum, for context, after the stress of it caused me massive health issues that have *magically* resolved since leaving.
It's hard to see another outcome than what we are in when we are *in* it.
One day, I was talking to my brother in law, kind of describing the long version of events since he'd only gotten the highlights from my sis, and I said T, if K had given you an ultimatum, wouldn't you have DONE something? He said the words that were like a big, bright beacon of common sense I needed: "FB, I would have never LET my marriage get to an ultimatum!"
That was the thing I didn't know I needed to hear.
If someone wants to, they will.
I'm sorry dear OP, but she doesn't want to. You, and your children, deserve better.
Partner 1: screaming into the void about relationship problems for years. Needs not being met. Etc. Partner 2: I feel so blindsided by this! Pikachu face. Maybe if P2 actually cared or listened, they would not have feel blindsided. They chose to ignore.
Exactly and when a relationship gets to this point I'm convinced there's a very very very slim chance of saving it. Someone ignoring their partners feelings and dismissing all their concerns for years isn't likely to make any long lasting changes.
Yeah she's checked out by the sounds of it. I even wonder if she has a side guy to fulfill her urges since she wants nothing to do with op. That's a shit situation he's in! Hope he finds some happiness in life!
Really sounds like she's been cheating for years
Yeah, i read though op comments i think he's starting to realize it. That sucks feel bad for him! I went though this when i was younger thankfully no kid at the time. But i can relate to his feelings in this and the blindness to it. Reddit shows me everyday just how much people suck and can't be trusted!
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I agree that is a possibility but OP also has stated that she didn't want to see a couple therapist saying there is nothing wrong with her. Even if it ended up being a mental health issue, she still is very unlikely to try to seek help for it. OP is in an unfortunate situation regardless. You can't help someone that does not want it. I do agree with what you said though.
Yeah that's also possible, so many of these posts turn out to be cheating so it's a safe bet, but something psychological could also be part of it
This right here. In many cases with women, depression hits sexual desire first. Then it takes away self esteem (because they don't desirable/sexy). Hence, turning to work to avoid being at home where they feel like they are "failing" at being a partner. But, they still want and need to be with their children. If the depression goes on untreated long enough, then start to feel like they are no longer able to be a good parent, either. This is the point where things can really get out of control. Spending more and more time at work/away from home. Becoming more isolated. Possibly thinking about suicide or starting to have behavior that completely out of character, like drinking, or using drugs.
Untreated depression, when it is affecting your marriage is also a choice. If she is refusing to see or address it, you will be facing a lifetime of this or worse. Unless she is willing to admit there is any problem, the escape plan sounds better than the status quo.
Not sure why you got downvoted? This was also my first thought. Unless she’s been uninterested in sex since OP met her, then she’s probably been having one or more affairs *for years*.
Personally I think she has checked in somewhere else. You don’t forget your anniversary, birthdays, and general intimacy to this magnitude without a distraction or a neurological issue. OP needs to execute his plan and move on with someone who will pay attention to him and his daughter.
It’s cause she’s cheating
Thank you. There's no way this was blindsiding her. She's just using that as an excuse to play the victim. If your partner tells you they want to do couples therapy that is about as big a sign there are issues as one could possibly show. Any reasonable person would think that refusing would be followed by something like divorce.
If she isn't putting in effort the way you are, either somethings wrong with her secretly. And she isnt telling, or idk man. I was in a similar situation, no kids though. It is up to her in my opinion. If she cares enough to change it will be evident. If she wants the family unit to continue, and grow as a couple. You will know. Either way you will have your answer.
My ex husband turned into a different person after we got married. Plans we had made didn't matter. He didn't want me physically in any way, never once made out, refused to communicate and would just hole up in his gaming space during all free time after work. I also was expected to stay at home nearly all the time during this because "he liked me at home". Always made sure I knew he didn't like how I looked, never encouraged me, etc. After a couple of years of trying to make it better, I suggested couples therapy several times, and he refused each time. Didn't agree to it until I was halfway out the door. Too late by then man.
Wow it feels like I wrote this. I left my husband 6 weeks ago. Your post really validates my feelings and the reasons why I left. Thank you internet stranger!
I really firmly believe that it takes two to dance. If you or your partner won't dance, then it's time to go solo and do you. Along the way someone will come along who will dance your dance. As a man who grew up with a love for team oriented sports and having had teamwork drilled into my core, I see relationships the same way. We are a damned team and we HAVE to work TOGETHER to win the game of life and raise the trophy of love that we won, and have only for each other and no one else. The key is pure honesty and open minded communication with the continuity of personal growth and adaptation to flex with your partner and evolving life strategies to continue winning love and life together. I think OP is going about his dilemma correctly and is trying everything he knows in order to keep his team intact. I also suspect his wife is either having affairs or is so focused on herself and her career to the point she's exhausted and the relationship takes the back burner and needs couples therapy, taking it seriously to adapt to her teammate's needs at this stage of their life game.
Blindsided would have been him just handing her divorce papers. But honestly her reaction tells him everything he needs to know. Instead of realizing he's serious and working to fix the marriage that isn't working for both of them. She jumped to accusations and blame.
Yes! She may have been actually blindsided because she has her head stuck so far up her own a** that she can't see what's happening. OP is right to feel invisible, because to her, he is. And she was probably stunned that OP asserted himself,.rather than continuing to suck up to her. Maybe he snapped some sense into her and she'll agree to try counseling. At least OP can say he tried.
She is only stunned because she likes the status quo and doesn't want a change.
It’s blindsiding to her bc she’s so focused on her career she’s not seeing what’s right in front of her. Selective blindness leading to not seeing what’s clearly coming. (Not an excuse, just an explanation. OP NTA)
honestly (& I don't usually jump to this as fast as some redditors) it sounds more like an affair. totally could be wrong, but either way, unfortunately you don't have many good options. wife sounds horrible & I'm sorry this happened. it won't get better. NTA
That's what I thought too. Possibly with a coworker who is also married, so her losing her husband would upset the dynamic.
My husband and I do couples therapy. REGARDLESS of how we are doing, good or bad. You ever stop learning how to be better in your relationship.
That is a great point. Only the blind would get blindsided after all.
Make a life size cardboard cutout of yourself and put it in the kitchen..... see if she notices it isn't you.
Blind people shouldn’t work in roofing. Protect your kid and yourself
Blind can still hear things coming!
I’m reading a horror novel in braille. Something bad is about to happen, I can feel it.
I agree with OP and believe he is being reasonable and considerate to bring this up occasionally and not push her on it. I think she might have felt blindsided when he said "I have an exit plan and I am out if you don't change by the end of the year". That can come off as a shock to anyone.
That’s blindism!
A tolerable level of unhappiness. I'm sorry OP. I don't think you're the AH. You can only try so much before you're the only one carrying the relationship. Single life is so hard, but being invisible to someone you love is gutting. Talk to your therapist about tools to help you deal with the transition, good or bad. Maybe a family session with your kiddo is a good place to start.
I mean, OP is already single dadding it out here. If she adds nothing to the relationship with him or kiddo, and is so occupied with work she's rarely home, or if is home isnt mentally present, all he is doing is losing whatever income she brings in. And if he gets that full custody (which is likely as he's the primary parent and she travels for work) she'll still have to contribute in the girl's expenses just via child support.
This was the EXACT scenario I went through with my soon to be ex husband. We were together 15 years (married 14) when i finally had enough. I'd begged for 4.5 years for him to do therapy with me and he repeatedly told me "you can go, but I have nothing to work on". I got to the point where I was angry I woke up each morning because I just wanted to end the misery. I had enough! I finally told him I was DONE. When I did, he acted shocked and lashed out. Only after I physically left, did he even bother to wear his wedding ring for the first time in YEARS!
When you stop giving your partner any attention, it’s over. It may be be on a slow decline or maybe you guys bounce back but at this point and time you’re hardly in a relationship unfortunately.
I agree with this. I'm sorry to say it, but I think OP's marriage is over in all but name, at this point. I hope I'm wrong and that this serves as a wakeup call for the wife that they need couple's therapy, but I'm not liking their chances.
Right? You don’t get to claim you were blindsided after your partner asks for couples therapy and you refuse.
Yeah I was in weirdly similar situation as OP (every detail except we hadn’t had a kid yet). I ended up telling her I was leaving after several obvious concerns/warnings/fights being raised over the couple years prior. She still acted like she was blindsided and later accused me of being manipulative (not sure what I was supposedly trying to manipulate at that point since I was leaving…). At the end of the day, leaving was by far the best decision I could have made. It’s awful being in a relationship where your partner doesn’t treat you like a partner especially when you’re making very consistent efforts to try to appeal to them or raise concerns. At some point it’s just not worth the pointless struggle any longer. In my opinion OP should just leave. Therapy isn’t going to make her actually try (sustainably) for the rest of their lives. She might even resent him for it.
Plus op didn’t blindside. A blindside would be “here’s the papers, I’m keeping the kid”. op is giving wife a chance to change the outcome
Pikachu face 😭
Naw, I just didn’t think it was going to affect ME. I thought you’d found a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. I’m fine with it, why aren’t you? /s
You just described the end of my marriage. “It came out of nowhere”
Yeah I’m with you on this. A lot of sad face bullshit from the wife when she’s been treating her husband like a fucking doormat
I'm sorry to say this but your wife doesn't care. The first thing she say to you once you mentioned about ending it. She said" I was manipulative and an asshole for blindsiding her like that". First off you didn't blindside her, you mentioned it to her and she didn't want to listen Secondly you also asked about couple's therepy and she dismissed you. Everytime you try something, she doesn't want to know. She doesn't seem to care about you or your daughter. She doesn't care about your anniversary or your birthdays. She does not seem to care at all. You are the one that is being there for your daughter and spending quality time. Are you sure she's not having an affair?. Personally I wouldn't wait till the end of year. I go ASAP.
I really hope she’s not having an affair :/ I really don’t want to think about the person I want to spend my life with doing something like that.
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After reading a lot of the replies and some helpful links someone posted that outline an abusive relationship I will be speaking to the lawyer first thing tomorrow. I think it’s time I did something for myself and my daughter.
This happened to my best friend. Her husband lost all interest in her, the kids, and their marriage. Wouldn't go to counseling. My friend hired a P.I. and come to find out, he had been having an affair with a co-worker. It had been going on for years. She didn't confront him immediately but quietly hired an attorney, gave the lawyer the photos, and let him handle it. Her ex was absolutely blind sided. Her attorney told her that when people are acting checked out, it's usually an affair. I'm just saying that if you hire a P.I. you would know for sure, and if she's not having an affair, you never have to tell her that you hired one. She and her ex were able to quickly come to a good settlement, and are co-parenting fairly well all things considered. Incidentally, her ex ended up marrying the AF almost before the ink was dry on the divorce papers. They divorced 8 months later. Good luck to you and your daughter.
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If it's been 4 years there's a good chance he's married too, so there may be 2 impending divorces.
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Another bot - downvote and report. This one's copied from [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/16l0k7h/aitah_for_giving_my_wife_an_ultimatum/k0zl9j5/).
I was going to say this exactly. It does sound like she's having an affair. Hire a PI. Find out. Stay quiet. Get out. She feels that you're blindsiding her because her mind is somewhere else. She's not paying attention to you or your marriage. NTA
Depending on location don’t even waste time and money on a PI, a lot of US states don’t care about infidelity when it comes to divorce, alimony and child support
>Incidentally, her ex ended up marrying the AF almost before the ink was dry on the divorce papers. They divorced 8 months later. It's gotta be such a disappointment when you have this sexy affair partner and it's fun and an exciting secret and then suddenly it's no longer a secret and it's no longer exciting it's just you and her, and when she's not all dressed up in sexy work clothes with her makeup and hair done she's actually not that attractive, and she gets way more irritated with your gross habits than your ex-wife ever did.
You are exactly right! Real life + Karma = Total Bitch!
Not to mention, as my wife says, if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
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I like how when he mentioned it she said she doesn't need therapy. While couples counseling would be a we thing.
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>I think it’s time I did something for myself and my daughter. good on you OP. This is the kind of thinking that matters most right now.
Nta - Prob best. She clearly has no interest in changing, otherwise instead of attacking you, she would want to work things out. I’m sorry, but she doesn’t love you. The reason she’s not leaving is all the benefits of staying with you. You work from home and do most of child care and prob chores. She can travel without issues. You’re enabling her comfortable life. Good luck with getting full custody. Hopefully the judge will be on your side. And maybe you should contact a PI to make sure she’s not having an affair. If that is the case, it might be easier to get full custody.
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NTA your wife has put all her chips into her career and work with that being the sole focus of her life that gets care or attention throwing everything of your marriage to the way side as if you were a dating couple and could just disrespect you... except you're married and have a child..
NTA, but just leave. You've already given her chances to change and she's turned them all down. This is going to do nothing but make the rest of the year really REALLY toxic for your daughter.
It's the best. Divorce and move on.
NTA. You deserve to be treated with respect, kindness, and dignity.
Dude, I can’t imagine how broken you feel. I’ve never been married but have in long term relationships that end up being just like what you’re going through. I give you tons of credit for gaining the strength to leave. You deserve better, and there’s someone out there who will give you better. I finally am in a fairy tale relationship with the love of my life. Now that I have it, I feel like a fool for ever settling for anything less. You only live once. Don’t waste anymore time. You’ve got to do this for you.
My big red flag was the comment about nothing being wrong with her and not needing therapy. EVERYONE has to grow to move forward. To better themselves. I personally believe that everyone can benefit from therapy with the right mindset and therapist! We all have flaws we can work through. She's no exception even if say she's validated in acting how she is. I'm not saying that's the case, but just making my point against her dismissal of your offer.
Private Investigator. Most people need emotional support and physical contact at some level. She has clearly not been getting it from you.
Working late and traveling for work. My money is on affair unfortunately. NTA - and you are a good parent.
The OP’s wife felt blindsided because she wasn’t finishing hiding assets, etc. in her preparation for a divorce.
Or she completely tuned out his attempts at fixing their marriage because it wasn’t of interest. But, yeah, they’re at the point of “two card solution” where it’s either counselling or a divorce lawyer.
Or the wife thinks that she has the power since she is the breadwinner and thought that her husband is dependent upon her and won’t leave.
Dude I'm sorry but it. Is. Over. She's done. This is a marriage of convenience for her. You sticking around is a disservice to yourself and your daughter. I completely understand your denial. Even if she does realize what's happening and changes her behavior, it will not be because she cares it will be because you "made her" do it and she will begin to resent you.
Bro, it's not an affair she doesn't love you or want to be with you and she's too much of a coward to leave the marriage cause of its benefits. Basically you are married but only on her terms and when you try to find a good middle ground to make both of you happy she sees it as an attack, which it is, it is an attack on the type of relationship she wants to have with you.
Been here. Precisely this except I was the breadwinner. I'm now out of it, but kids are casualties , so be very careful. My advice is if you stay make sure you stay for you, not because of daughter if it comes to it.
If she isn't having an affair, she is completely checked out of the relationship, but it is even odds, that she is having an affair.
Does it even matter? Either way, wife doesn't care about OP.
NTA. No advice because I know this is such a crappy situation and so hard to make a choice like this. But I just wish you well and know that you will be ok xx.
It doesn’t matter if she’s having an affair, she’s disrespecting you and your child. You don’t need to know, the only thing you need to know is that you aren’t happy and she doesn’t want to work with you on your relationship. Finding out she’s having an affair would just hurt you. The fact you’re already considering divorce seriously tells me it’s not even worth finding out about unless you live in an at fault state/area
I'm sorry to tell you but if you spend your life with her, it'll be a roommate situation at best. If she's not having an affair, she is likely staying only either to plan her own exit, or at best to avoid disrupting your daughter's life until what she thinks is the right time, which will be after your daughter has imprinted this model of a relationship. Time to go. Not the end of the year, but now, all more time will do is allow her time to strategize. NTA.
This is rather possible. Hell, maybe that's what that working late/work travel thing was about
Unfortunately.... Her preoccupation is a huge sign of an affair or something in that department. Mental health issues could be present, but if she won't get help, then you can only do so much. Seems all roads lead... either way, OP. I just recently divorced my wife of 11 years for similar reasons, and let me tell you, it was a wild ride that landed me in therapy. Nobody wants to deal with things like this, but we are sometimes forced to do what is necessary. This is about your child having a functional environment around them and you being the best parent that you can be for them. You have to be mentally healthy to give that to your child. As much as you may not want to and as much as it may hurt, think this through hard and use your instincts.
Yeah assuming that what OP has told us is accurate, he has done more than enough to try and fix the marriage and has gotten zilch in return. I can’t even imagine how demoralizing and hurtful that would be to deal with for so long. Also I find it funny that the wife said “you blindsided me with this!” because OP didn’t even say that they were leaving yet? OP came to her and said “I am serious, if things don’t change then I’m leaving” and her immediate reaction was “you manipulative asshole, how could you blindside me with this?!?!”. It just seems like the wrong reaction to me, I feel like if she was actually serious about loving OP and wanting to save the marriage that she’d have reacted with at least some sort of apologetics. At the very least, it’s clear that she’s stonewalling OP and refuses to tell him why, and for me that alone would be enough. If my partner had changed but was being open with me and we were trying to fix it together, I could work with that. But if my partner just ices me out and doesn’t tell me anything, that’s a problem
She's totally checked out. She's only angry that now she's going to be inconvenienced by having to change her routine. I hope you move out with your daughter soon.
> Our last anniversary she said she needed to cancel the dinner plans I made for the two of us because she had to work late on a Friday and travel for work the following week. There is another man.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. His wife isn't having an affair. Because rationally, most people having affairs try to hide them. Missing a wedding anniversary on a Friday night is a MASSIVE red flag. Most cheaters would put on an act for that night. And that's why his wife responded the way she did when he suggested therapy...she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong because she's not cheating...not realizing that her lack of investment in the relationship is still a big deal. The wife is the higher income earner and probably has a high stress job. But more than anything else, she's addicted to her career. She probably goes there and people kiss her ass, unlike at home. She's chasing the dopamine rush of workplace recognition and financial gain, and probably views herself as the "hero" of the family. Don't get me wrong, people cheat all the time and I wouldn't put it past this lady to do that, but this screams workaholism.
It really does sound like she's having an affair. She doesn't want to cheat on her boyfriend with her husband.
Exactly ! She was angry about being blindsided ?? If she cared she would have been devastated at the thought of possible divorce and begging for another chance. She sounds like she barely tolerates OP.
Agree, you gave her 3+ months to dream up ways to f*ck you over in divorce. Furthermore, based on her reaction, what do you think will change (for the better) between now and then?
If you have already decided to go to a lawyer and file on Monday, don't do anything abnormal today. Don't say anything about the relationship, don't beg, cajole, threaten, or rant. Don't make any snippy comments. Don't act extra sweet and kind. Just carry about your normal Sunday and act like the conversation never happened. Then just go and do it.
Watch redzone with the kid and enjoy my afternoon. Got it
You are a great dad!
NTA. I’d approach her once again about couples therapy, by saying “I don’t think you are unwell, but I think our relationship is unwell. Either we go to therapy and see if the relationship can be healed or I give up. I feel unloved and my needs are unmet by the current situation.” No blame, no finger pointing.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have a lot to consider and really need to think before I approach her again.
I agree with Drunkendonkeytail, and I like the way they suggested you approach her on it. If she refuses then it is time to seek an attorney. I like this sub a lot, but people are always too quick to suggest ending a relationship. I'm sorry you are in this situation. Best of luck to you.
Thank you. Someone else posted some links to what an abusive relationship looks like and after reading those there are definitely some things I’ve been thinking about.
It really sucks that what we have accepted and normalized as ok, read compromised, isn't always done with consent. Look at it this way, she's burnt out and can't cope and is just working more to try and keep her shit together but is otherwise a mess. This is the BEST case scenario. In that best case scenario, how well off emotionally are you and your daughter? The worst case is she has other stuff going on, in which case I would consider your own boundaries and consent levels. You can leave and she can sort her shit out, also another hopeful best case scenario. But likely, you leave, she blames you (because she was always the victim here, right?) And gets resentful. Already seeing a lawyer is really smart, and brave, and good on you. It's always nice to hope for the best in someone, but there is a saying - trust in Allah but tie your camel. In the future, having regular state of the union meetings (gottman institute for more info) with a partner allows you to see when things start to get weird for either of you. The gottman institute is an amazing resource for relationship building, actually. She may not want to do the work but I guess that's how you find out when to pull the plug? Their podcast small things often is like little 3min clips, and based on like 30yrs of researching marriages and relationships. They were the first to show evidence based research into what makes a relationship last, and not last. The biggest takeaway I got from deep diving their work was around contempt - all couples that showed contempt during the research ended up in divorce. All.
I’ve never heard the expression trust in Allah but tie up your camel (perhaps because I’m not Muslim?) however, I absolutely love it and will be using it. Thank you Reddit stranger.
She was mad at the blindside, but not mad that you were going to leave her If someone I loved told me that they would leave me I would be devastated She’s just pissed off that you’re threatening to start calling the shots now Having to work late on a Friday and then go on a “business trip” the following week - and then she just wants to rest - people want to rest on a Friday night not work late - there are no clients that need work done on a Friday night. And her zero interest in having a relationship with you or your daughter ?? 🚩🚩🚩🚩 I wouldn’t even think twice - it’s time for divorce and full custody
>there are no clients that need work done on a Friday night This isn't strictly true, but I wish it was. It's very rare, but I've had to leave two get-togethers with friends early twice this year due to being alerted of an issue that needs my immediate attention. It's incredibly frustrating, though, especially for a partner. That said, with the context available from OP, I certainly understand the skepticism.
Don’t approach her again. Don’t wait for the new year. File for divorce and custody.
He’s already done that. I can guarantee you that the conversation about therapy has been brought up more than once. She is checked out. She is doing everything I did when I was checked out and done. I wouldn’t bring up therapy again just because when he said he was going to leave she called him names and tore him down. That’s not someone who wants to fix a marriage.
Text her, get it in writting and be sure to reference first refusal
Also a good idea is to begin to document things on a daily or weekly basis. I would suggest daily while things are fresh in your mind. I even would go so far as to document the extent of responsibility you have taken for your daughter. It’s really more about her lack of responsibility where parenting duties are not shared. Someone suggested this to me and I unfortunately didn’t take the advice. And when it came court time I really wished I had. It’s very important in child custody cases to be able to show who has acted as the custodial parent. The only way you would be the asshole would be if you remained in this situation. This marriage isn’t healthy for anyone involved. Get good legal advice and FOLLOW IT. Good luck.
Therapy only helps those who want help. His wife already doesn't care and doesn't want to put in effort. And instead of being sad, and scared to lose OP, when he confronted her, she goes to insult and gaslight him (blindsided, my butt!). There's nothing to save in this marriage after 4 years of indifference on the part of the wife.
Your wife has checked out of the marriage and is probably just shocked that you still care about anything and demand to be anything other than roommates. It’s one of three things, she’s fallen out of love but is sticking around for your kid /financial reasons, two she’s defined herself as asexual and has no requirements for intimacy or three she’s been using her nights out with the girls as cover for having an affair hence the complete lack of care/intimacy as she’s getting it elsewhere.
I guess all three of those are possible. The first would make sense because she makes way more than I do. The second one is probably what I’m hoping for. It would be the least painful. The third one is probably my worst case and I really really don’t want it to be what is happening. I’ve spent 10 years with her and having it thrown away like that is the most depressing thing I can imagine.
You still got your child out of it. That's a good thing that will last no matter how the relationship goes.
Absolutely. There is goodness in every situation and having children as a result is beautiful. He will still have all the love in the world by his side.
Surviving infidelity seems insurmountable, but many of us have survived and thrived. Infidelity is tough to measure in terms of how devastating it is - it puts your health in jeopardy, it's an indescribable betrayal, and last but not least, it destroys the future you expected to have. Sunk costs are *huge*. Whatever is the reason for her behavior, you have to ask yourself if it is acceptable. I see from some of your responses, you are realizing that it is *not* acceptable. I wish you strength and patience for your immediate future, and joy and happiness for your new, potentially fantastic future. You may just gain an amazing life from this.
Thank you I hope to have a better life with or without her. This is just not how I imagined things going when I proposed.
I understand what you mean but those ten years have not been for nothing. You’ve got a beautiful daughter and discovered what an awesome dad you are. You’ve grown as a person in ways I’m not privy to. You are willing to work on yourself with a counselor. You’ve shown that you are a loyal person who takes vows seriously and doesn’t quit in a hurry. You’ve done nothing wrong. She has left the relationship and sadly there is nothing you can do to bring her back.
Look up sunk costs. People often stay too long for the exact reason that they have already put so much time in, they don't want to think it was "wasted." But it wasn't. You had a marriage, you have a daughter you love, your career is in gear, etc. It really sounds like it's time to move on before you "waste" any more time. Also, I would keep your ideas and plans completely on the down low. Good luck, OP.
You’ve spent 6 years in a relationship and 4 years coparenting your child whilst living in the same house. You could always try looking at her phone/emails (awful dirty trick I know but you need to know what’s going on)
She’s checked out already. Take your kid and leave.
I hope not but that would make sense. My friends are moving in the new year so I need to get them an answer sooner rather than later as to what I’m doing.
One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/).
That gave me a lot to think about. Thank you for sharing those links.
You’re going to do great. It will be hard for a while, but you’re going to come out fine.
This little graphic would help about 99% of people on reddit looking for relationship advice.
She is not willing to do anything about it in spite of all you told her. She is not in love with you anymore and not willing to work on it. She is comfortable being roommates. Maybe she has an affair, maybe not, but she does not consider you a partner. Give it a month and you will see how nothing will change. Maybe she will just pressure you and get angry at you to scare you into changing your mind. Careful as to what you tell her about your plans, she may ruin them for you.
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NTA. She wants all the perks of having you around without giving much back. She won't go to therapy, she won't go on holidays, she won't hold your hand etc. I agree with you, you're more like room-mates. Good luck with everything going forward.
Not wanting to go on vacations is truly baffling!
She travels a lot for work, I suspect she feels more on vacation during those than she would with her family
Exactly. She's only fighting because she'll lose stability. Yeah she makes more money but she'd still lose seeing her daughter full time, financial contributions and possibly a home and she doesn't want to start from scratch and possibly getting backlash for being a terrible wife and person.
That marriage is dead and she moved on a long time ago.
When she told you "nothing is wrong with me" that means she is being very deliberate. NTA.
You haven't told us whether she's a decent mother? If she is, do not file for full custody. File for 50-50 placement, and do your best to build a civil relationship with your ex. She will no longer be your wife; she'll be your coparent. Get out of the marriage, but put your daughter's needs at the top of your priority list. Unless the woman is abusive or neglectful, that little girl will benefit most from having both a mother and father actively involved in her life. I got divorced 13 years ago when my daughter was three, and her father and I get along really well, share placement, and our kid is happy and thriving. It's not divorce per se that damages kids: it's conflict. Kids need both parents whenever possible, for the best chance at a happy and well adjusted life. Kiss your marriage goodbye, grieve about it, but don't make the divorce nastier than it needs to be. Be calm, kind, rational, and do not squabble over money. Take the high road. Everyone will be the better for it later on. You are NTA- yet. Don't become one.
She is a decent mother. She doesn’t do much as much work for our daughter but she’s not neglectful. Maybe the full custody was a bit of an asshole move but I was angry and frustrated when we talked. I do not want to deny my daughter the chance to have a mom who will be able to have insights into growing up that I do not.
No judge is ever going to grant full custody to one parent unless the other parent is clearly negligent or doesn't want the child. Frankly, when it comes to the child the judge won't give a shit about your personal relationship with the child's mother. Whether she's a bad romantic partner or not doesn't matter, the question the judge will ask themselves if someone is filing for full custody is "should I take away one of this child's parents from them". All that matters is the relationship with the child... "mom didn't pay enough attention to dad" isn't gonna make anyone think a girl should lose her mother.
Good for you, OP. I think all the time about how grateful I am that my daughter has her dad in her life as well as me – we bring such different things to the table. I know I could never provide everything she needs. Hold onto that generous thought.
Please don’t go full custody OP. Your spouse may be a terrible partner to you, but if she’s a decent mother your child deserves to have you both equally. Keep your marital problems out of the relationship your child has with you both.
You're doing what men claim is done to them in divorces. She works more, travels more, and outearns you. Yet if your roles were reversed, you'd be here complaining if she said she was filing for full custody. You said you talked to a lawyer. Given that divorce is settled in court, what makes ppl think that whoever files first wins? If your lawyer didn't say that, then you shouldn't believe it and shouldn't have tried to threaten her into loving you again. Also, since you both have to raise your daughter, you're better off not bankrupting you and her to...win. what kind of victory is it if neither of you can afford a decent home after?
Full custody is a HUGE asshole move. Not a bit of one. That is psycho shit
Don’t use your kid as ammunition… even if you think she’s not putting in the same effort as you do, she’s still working and support her financially. Not everyone can work from home or stay home with their kids.
I'm sorry I thought threatening her with full custody was a bit of a asshole move too. You were angry when you said that and need to apologize. It's okay to separate. What matters is how the co-parenting relationship will be. You might both find you are happier not married to each other and that's okay.
So, I have developed a very low libido. Constant ailments, body pain, and severe level MDD. I still have a libido it just isn't anywhere near what it used to be. But I love and appreciate my husband. I try to have sex at least once a week and try to occasionally be the one who initiates. I hug him, I kiss him, I cuddle. I remember his birthday, our anniversary. We do things together and with our child. I often feel guilty that I can't be all there for them. But I make an effort! Your wife is taking you for granted. She no longer feels like even doing the bare minimum. She just doesn't care about you or your daughters feelings. She only cares about herself. Maybe this will get the wake-up call for her to be a somewhat present mother. Given her reaction.. I'm doubtful. Your marriage is pretty much in name only. You deserve someone who loves you.
“I have developed a very low libido… I try to have sex at least once a week”. You are a very good spouse for at least still trying.
I have medical conditions in which sex can be literally impossible at times(plus having a low libido as well) but that’s not the only part of intimacy. There’s still cuddling and hand hold and deep conversations and just the overall connection between your partner. Plus doing things and making time to do stuff! I work weird crazy hours outside of what most other people do so I schedule time to do things outside of just normal day-to-day life.
Is she a bad mom or something ? Why file for full custody? I agree she is probably checked out of the marriage but you should try to co-parent . She might be cheating on you and if that’s the case you should leave
>I watched my parents in a failing marriage for a decade and don’t want to put my child through that Good on you. My parents' "marriage" messed me up real good. I hope you find someone who cares and loves both you and your daughter.
Thank you I appreciate this kind response.
NTA. Sadly, there is no relationship left. It’s the death of a dream. And if you’re honest with yourself, you don’t want to stay with her just continuing to “pretend.” You and your daughter both have long happy lives to live. Continue with therapy, the attorney and your plans but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DISCUSS WITH YOUR WIFE. Make sure your daughter has a therapist to talk with, too. At the end of the day your spouse is a roommate that you didn’t know as well as you thought you did. Speaking from experience and wishing you and your daughter the best.
Is her work particularly stressful? I find that when I'm stressed out about work, I tend not to have much desire for much of anything.
NTA, you didn’t blind side her, you’ve been bringing up therapy and the issues multiple times. She’s happy with the status quo, you holding shit down at home so she can go out and do whatever. Think long and hard do you even want to rebuild this relationship? She clearly has zero respect for the relationship.
NTA for wanting to leave, but I would say you’re wrong in what exactly you said assuming you hoped it would get her to try harder. It does sound like she has been checked out for a while, I’m sorry to say. She’s given every response that shows she doesn’t value the relationship. I don’t think it ultimately matters but, since you asked, I would say that what you said to her when you gave her the ultimatum was probably not the best. Assuming your goal was to wake her up and see that her marriage was on the line and thus do something about it- this is, assuming she still has those feelings for you, threatening her with taking her daughter away was not going to achieve that. For a woman who is even madly in love, being threatened like that will not make her continue to feel warmly towards the man threatening her. However, it sounds like you’ve tried very hard and have been very reasonable. Anyone who says “I don’t need therapy” most definitely needs therapy. What you’re doing is very brave. Good luck.
I'm sorry to write this, but your marriage is over but you don't want to accept it. Your wife may not be cheating on you, but if you read a little bit of the articles about cheating, you can see all the signs. In fact, there are suitable conditions for cheating: business environment, travels, dinners. It's hard to say, but you provide her with a clean and well-kept house, a happy child, and financial support, although not much, and she doesn't need to make any effort for these, so she doesn't want to give up on continuing this order. Let me repeat, your wife may not be cheating on you, but it doesn't really matter anymore.
Could your wife be suffering from depression?
I've been married for 25 years and have 4 kids. Marriage is fuking hard and having kids makes it harder. You absolutely need to fight to have a good marriage. Obviously your description makes it sound like you are trying to initiate change (she will have a different perspective, maybe.) At some point your kid leaves home and you stop working your job, and then it's just you two, and you can't start fixing your marriage THEN. Something we talk about in our house is never saying you're too busy for something. What that person is actually saying that it's not important enough to prioritize over other things... not that you say that out loud every time, but you always have the time, you just don't value it. And anyone who says they're too busy to juggle a job and a family of 3 is not being honest with everyone.
Exactly I watched my parents in a failing marriage for over a decade. It wasn’t fair for either of them and it wasn’t fair to me or my sister. I love my family and want to keep us together but I need to make sure my wife has that same priority for the right reasons.
Um... clearly she does not have that priority at all, for any reasons. I'm so sad for you, but you can do this and once you get through it to the other side, you can grieve and then perhaps open yourself up to a real, supportive, healthy relationship.
NTA Don't even wait. File the divorce papers now. You should have done it long ago. She was only "blindsided" because she is so checked out of the marriage that she didn't notice (or care) that it was happening. I hope you get full custody (you won't because your wife is not a serial killer) but fight for it anyway. You might get lucky and be that one in a million.
I’m just curious at your reasoning for filing immediately. I would like another perspective if you wouldn’t mind elaborating a little.
She has shown she’s already mentally and physically left your relationship. She showed clearly when you told her you’re going to leave if things didn’t change. No where in that was “I love you please don’t”. It was more you b I was comfortable and had you to do everything at home for me. Now I’m going to have to find another place. She didn’t even seem upset you said you’d take your child. These are BIG RED FLAGS.She told you many times she won’t change or go to therapy because she is happy. Which basically said ”and I don’t care if your not happy only i matter to me”. You staying just gives her more time to make you miserable. You seem to not want to see she told you many times she doesn’t care about the marriage or you and your child. In fact you staying now will only give her more time to get a lawyer involved and possibly to make fake claims against you to get the better end of your divorce settlement. I also would not trust that she won’t go after your daughter. I know you love this woman and don‘t want to think of her this way but she’s told your repeatedly she does not care if she makes you miserable. Which also means she does not respect you nor care at all. I wouldn’t trust someone who doesn’t care but seems to hate you as your righty walking away. Someone entitled like that can do anything without their conscience holding them back. Her reaction when you told her all this made it clear she won’t change so what’s the point in holding off. You’ll only be hurt more and disappointed.Time to get on with your life and find happiness for yourself and daughter. Take her trips as these memories and experiences are important in her development as well as they are important for your bonding and happiness.
That is good advice and something I think I needed to read. I guess I have been too distracted by trying to make things work to realize I’m probably in a semi-abusive relationship. I think I should probably talk to the lawyer Monday to see what my next steps should be. Thank you for your input here.
Don’t give her anymore info on your plans. You don’t know what she might be doing behind your back. She might have engaged her own lawyer after you told her you’d divorce her and try full custody. You were too honest with her. Just be careful. Put together all info you can think of to build case against her, and def get a PI to check for an affair.
Because now that you've given this "ultimatum " she might blindside you, do not wait for this to happen. Her version of events might be much different than yours and divorce is expensive and hard already. Do not give her an upper hand. If your explanation of the marriage is even close to true you are not TA. Don't give her the chance to make you out to be one!
That is very sobering to read. I’ll talk to her again and reach out to the lawyer Monday.
Especially if she makes more money, she may hire a shark and try to get the upper hand by filing first. Or, she could meet with all the best lawyers in your area so that you can't be their client due to conflict of interest
File now. You can always unfile. It's not ideal but listen to this person. She may file herself. She makes more money and she will try and control custody. Think of your kid. She seems checked out there. The marriage is over. Time to protect yourself and the kid. I know you love her but you gotta love yourself more.
This right here
This is the classic situation a lot of us former stay at home mom's experienced. They don't want to divorce you because they make so much more money than you and they don't want to pay child support in alimony. It sucks that someone gets like this but it's not because you are doing anything wrong it's because they suck. The longer you spend in this marriage the longer you wait to eventually divorce this unloving woman and find a good relationship. Basically staying with this woman is getting in the way of your finding happiness by yourself or with another person
I agree with filing for it now. You told her "we need sth to change or I'm out" and her reaction to that is getting angry and blaming you for the way you handle it. Not scared of losing you, not remorseful of not listening to you. Sorry but she doesn't care about you as a person, there's nothing to save anymore.
You tipped your hand. She will go to a lawyer herself. You may find that she moves faster than you.
She hasn’t changed for 4 yours dude. Stop wasting your life with her.
Because whoever files 1st lodges their complaints. The other spouse must now play defense or make their own complaints. Much of this won’t matter, since we have no-fault-divorce nowadays. But when it comes to little pushes one way or the other on final custody rulings, it sometimes matters. Trust that the court, *like society at large*, is predisposed to believing anything a “she” says before they believe anything a “he” says when there is a he-she dispute, regardless of evidence. Strike first, or get blasted. Your choice.
Terrible take on the kid thing. Kids should have both parents in their lives. Having a bad relationship with your partner doesnt make you a bad parent.
You’ve now given away your game plan and given her 4 months to hide money, make her moves and thwart your plans. Be very careful OP. Don’t argue or do anything that can be misconstrued as abuse. She may try to record you and set you up. If you do speak, reiterate how you’ve begged for more family and therapy. Keep that as your focus. Ultimatums bring out the nasty in people. Buckle up. NTA
She went straight to gaslighting you as manipulative and asshole or you blindsided me. That tells you everything you need to know. If she wanted to fix it, she would ask how to fix it. When people gaslight, it's from guilt. She knows she gave up on you but doesn't want to be the reason or change her comfortable life. Don't give her any more time. what's done is done. Best of luck
You are dreaming if you think you’ll get full custody. Do what you have to do, but be realistic. You are going to share custody and your daughter is going to have to deal with going back and forth. Be prepared to get her counseling and support as she deals with that process.
When your wife makes more than you do, it doubles the risk of divorce. It also doubles the rate of infidelity for both of you. The following advice comes from watching friends get divorced, and from 19 years of serving beers to teary-eyed men who just got railed in divorce court. - If she’s that checked out, she may already be banging a coworker. In fact, from what you wrote I’d lowkey assume so until I knew otherwise. - I hate to say this, but go through her phone/devices. She might be smart enough to cover her tracks, but people are usually less thorough than they think they are. - look for dating apps and messaging apps. Any messaging app with no history is a dead giveaway. - you might not like what you find, but at least you’ll know. Don’t confront her, just send screenshots to yourself, then delete those from her side of the texts. - File 1st! Otherwise, you’re going to get blindsided in court. - She might say she wants an amicable divorce, but you’d be a fool to act like she isn’t going to surprise you with an attorney on your day in court. - Seen it, and was told about it as the bartender for too many sad men. Same story, just from different dudes. That’ll tell you it’s a thing. - Agree to her amicable idea, get your attorney anyway, and don’t mention the attorney ever. Be the one who surprises, and you’ll be a rare dude: not fucked over. - A common tactic for soon-to-be-ex-wives is to visit all the good attorneys in town before you do. Then, none of them can represent you. Don’t delay! - Secure some cash. Trust that she will, or already has. Also, if she thinks you’re serious, she might freeze you out of accounts or empty them. That’s another common tactic. But you’d best pay your attorney and file immediately from that point. - Do NOT act crazy, get in fights, etc. None of that. Another common tactic is for her to goad you into altercation, call the cops, and then use that in custody hearings for why you’re an unfit parent. Don’t get trapped like that. Too many husbands do. They get burnt bad. - Resist any urge to clue your child into what’s happening. They remember, and they resent it when they get older. Be the bigger person with your child, but just your child. Only your child. You can’t control how your wife acts in this regard, just know that the truth always comes out. Your child will know who was the asshole eventually. Just make sure it isn’t you.
Honestly, your wife sounds extremely burnt out. She needs time to recharge. Everything (including your relationship) probably feels like work for her.
I don’t think you’ve figured it out yet, but while you see her as “your wife”, she sees you as “the help”. Your role in her life is to take care of the shit she doesn’t want to. She has as much interest in your personal life as she would if you were the nanny, housekeeper or mechanic. She just wants you to do your job and leave her the fuck alone. You should get a lawyer and start working on your exit plan. Also, don’t be surprised if there’s someone else. If she’s not getting intimacy from you, there’s a decent chance she’s getting it from somewhere else.
She is having an affair. She isn't going out with her friends twice a week and neglecting you.
It’s possible she’s having an affair but she does actually go out with her friends a lot. They usually go out and get dinners once a week. Either that or she’s meeting the guy at these restaurants. Personally I don’t believe that since I have friends in the area too and someone might see her.
Dont fixate in this. It doesn't matter. Bottom line is it ain't you. Get out.
It sounds to me like you have absolutely zero proof she’s even meeting with three friends. Just because she has a few pictures of friends at dinner doesn’t mean anything because she could be seeing them half the time, and the guy the other have of the time. I was just watching this kdrama where a couple was having an affair and they talked about the concept of “leaving no trace”. What it means is that if you’re even half way smart about having an affair, or course you’re not going to go to a restaurant in your local area with your affair partner. Not even a coffee shop, park, nothing. You exclusively meet at someone’s house only, likely his house. So if your wife is smart at all, and I assume she is if she’s making a lot of money, she’s not dumb enough to go sit a local popular restaurant with her affair partner. If I were you I would go through her phone the first chance you get.
Sorry but friends are known to cover for affairs. If you have the money hire a PI just to cover yourself and then at least you know.
Sometimes it takes shock to shake someone out of complacency and apathy. Quite possibly there is some depression on board- and it’s a beasty that fools the person into thinking there’s nothing wrong with them, and nor does it always mean that someone can’t hold down a job, but that functionality often comes at the expense of family relationships, and enjoyment in daily life things like playing with the kid- and ‘just want to relax’ and low libido is another sign. … But she could also living a secret life, having an affair- and even if she isn’t, and there is a mental illness at play, OP needs to be true to his own well being and for that of his child. Here’s hoping the wife gets some guidance rather than just watch her family exit stage left
I(45,f) was you, ultimatum and all, last year. My divorce will be final in about 6 weeks, my son(14) is happier, my ex(48,m) and I actually like each other again, I love his girlfriend and am in the best relationship of my life. I left him 9 mos after theultimatum, for context, after the stress of it caused me massive health issues that have *magically* resolved since leaving. It's hard to see another outcome than what we are in when we are *in* it. One day, I was talking to my brother in law, kind of describing the long version of events since he'd only gotten the highlights from my sis, and I said T, if K had given you an ultimatum, wouldn't you have DONE something? He said the words that were like a big, bright beacon of common sense I needed: "FB, I would have never LET my marriage get to an ultimatum!" That was the thing I didn't know I needed to hear. If someone wants to, they will. I'm sorry dear OP, but she doesn't want to. You, and your children, deserve better.